Oprah Winfrey had six month’s pregnant transgender man Thomas Beatie and his wife Nancy on yesterday, and they seemed very open and honest about their decision to have Thomas bear their child, a girl. They came across as a kind and loving couple with a sincere desire to raise a child together. Beatie, 34, was born a girl and made the decision to legally become a man, having his breasts removed and taking testosterone but leaving his reproductive organs intact. After his wife, Nancy, had a hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis, they decided that Thomas would bear their child because he still had the ability to.
Oprah first talked about how Thomas mom died when he was just 12. Thomas was a girl at that time named Tracy, and his mother committed suicide, leaving him and his two brother’s
to the care of his father.
Thomas’ early life
Thomas said that up until he hit puberty he didn’t notice anything wrong, but that when he was 14 he found puberty a shock and felt like his body was betraying him. Thomas’ father pushed him into modeling and beauty pageants, and he was even a “Miss Teen Hawaii USA” finalist. He said “I wish I felt comfortable looking like that. I don’t feel like I was born in the wrong body, I felt like I was meant to be exactly who I am today.”
Thomas, 34, said he did have boyfriends as a teen, but felt like society was pushing him into it. He says he wanted to be around women more as a teenager, but it wasn’t until he was in his 20s that it turned into a sexual attraction. He said when he was 17 he took up martial arts and got into a relationship with his martial arts instructor, a man, who told him he fought and walked like a man. He says he wasn’t feminine enough for him at the time.
He went to college and said “that’s when I found myself” and had his first girlfriend, who he was with for three and a half years.
Resistance from the transgender community
He said that of all the transgender groups he contacted for support and advice, only half got back to him and they were all unsupportive, with one saying “the world’s not ready for this.”
How Thomas realized he was meant to be a man
He said that he “wanted to be free again like I was when I was younger. I didn’t see the world as male or female and I just wanted to be myself… I’m a masculine person and I wanted to wear clothes that made me feel comfortable. That was just a natural progression.”
“Over time, people started calling me ‘Sir,’ and that was an interesting concept to me… I ended up taking testosterone. I sought the help of a physician.”
Oprah: “Why not just wear the clothes, look more masculine cut off your hair, date women?”
Beatie said that an earlier girlfriend wasn’t supportive and asked him why he didn’t just want to be a lesbian. He explained “Sexuality is a completely different topic than how you feel as your gender. The gender role in society that I felt most comfortable being… was a male gender role. It’s hrd to explain how it is a separate issue. When I woke up in the morning, I felt like a man. It was difficult for society to respect me the way I felt on the inside if my outside didn’t match it.”
Oprah asks if he’s had genital implant surgery
Beatie explained how he had his breasts removed, and Oprah asked about what was going on with “the penis area,” and asked him if he had “like implant surgery” and he said “I opted not to do anything to my reproductive organs, because I wanted to have a child one day.”
Oprah asked him if it was a conflict for him to be pregnant and he said “I have very stable male gender identity. I see it as a process, and it doesn’t define who I am.”
“I feel it’s not a male or female desire to want to have a child, it’s a human desire. I’m a person and I have the right to have my own biological child.”
Oprah asks again about penis implant
Oprah asked yet again if he had a penis implant and he said “hormones are an incredible thing…” and he explained that hormones shape gender in the womb, and Oprah kept pressing “do you grow testicles too?” He said “No, I just introduced hormones into my body a little later…”
Oprah: “Does the clitoris get larger?”
“It does. It looks like a penis. A small penis. Does it matter?” [crowd laughs and claps]
He also said “I can have intercourse with my wife.”
Thomas’ wife Nancy explains their attempts at pregnancy
Thomas’ wife of five years Nancy, explained that it wasn’t a difficult decision for Thomas to have their child because it was not possible for her. She had her womb removed due to severe endometriosis. Nancy explained that they went public because they didn’t want someone else telling their story for them.
Thomas explained that he had an ectopic pregnancy when they first tried and that it was life-threatening and that he had to have emergency surgery to have one of his fallopian tubes removed. His brother told him it was a good thing that he didn’t have a baby because it could have been a “monster.”
Thomas and Nancy’s doctor, Kimberly James, was on and explained that they are a devoted couple and that there is little risk to the baby because Thomas has been off testosterone for two years before conceiving. She said “it’s an average pregnancy.”
Thomas and Nancy are expecting a girl.
Nancy impregnated Thomas
Nancy said that they were driving three and a half hours to go to the fertility doctor for the first pregnancy, but that she realized that they could do it at home. She went to a veterinarian’s office and asked for a syringe without a needle, and she took the container of sperm from the sperm bank and did the job herself.
Nancy’s older daughters from her first marriage were on and said they were happy and excited for the new baby and that “they’re just regular boring people.”
Nancy and Thomas were showing their nursery, and Nancy said “I bet a lot of wives would like to have their husbands pregnant.”
Two of Thomas’ neighbors were interviewed via satellite, and they said they had no idea that Thomas used to be a woman and that they only knew him as a gentle man.
Threats and intruders
They told a story about an intruder knocking on their window at 2:30 in the morning when Nancy was inside watching television. Thomas ran downstairs with a baseball bat and realized that he was pregnant and couldn’t get in a fight. The person left before he could confront him.
Thomas and Nancy said they’ll go hide if they have to, and that they have savings to live on. They currently live in Bend, Oregon and run a screenprinting business together, but have had to close their business after all the publicity.
As for what they’re trying to tell the world by going public, Thomas said that “love makes a family.”
This story really made me smile and I found the Beaties both honest and sincere. I hope they find the acceptance they need to raise their daughter in peace.
In case you just want to see Beatie, here’s a segment from Extra!, the full Oprah show is linked below.
Here’s the whole show. Thanks to monkeyboy on Redlasso.
Pregnant man on Oprah part 1
Pregnant man on Oprah part 2
Pregnant man on Oprah part 3
Pregnant man on Oprah part 4
Pregnant man on Oprah part 5
Pregnant man on Oprah part 6
Pregnant man on Oprah part 7
“Difference is normal and love makes a family.”
Can’t improve on that. Thanks for such a thorough, in-depth, sensitive write-up. I wish them all the luck in the world.
“Difference is normal and love makes a family.”
Can’t improve on that. Thanks for such a thorough, in-depth, sensitive write-up. I wish them all the luck in the world.
wonderful post, CB. very sensitive an non-gossipy. i hope that everything will turn out just fine and that they can welcome a healthy little girl. all the best
wonderful post, CB. very sensitive an non-gossipy. i hope that everything will turn out just fine and that they can welcome a healthy little girl. all the best
yeah i hope we can still share in their interesting story but that people leave them alone and let them live their lives.
yeah i hope we can still share in their interesting story but that people leave them alone and let them live their lives.
I really can’t understand why people are making such a huge deal out of it.
I really can’t understand why people are making such a huge deal out of it.
I can’t either, headache.
Excellent post. Well written and sensitive.
I can’t either, headache.
Excellent post. Well written and sensitive.
(From Wikipedia) Female (♀) is the sex of an organism, or a part of an organism, which produces ova (egg cells). The ova are defined as the larger gametes in a heterogamous reproduction system, while the smaller, usually motile gamete, the spermatozoon is produced by the male.
If you produce eggs, have a womb, and can carry and incubate a child, then you’re just not a man. Sorry.
I see this as offensive, not because it offends my sensibilities or morals, but because I’m a man. How is this any less offensive than a white man in blackface exactly? I grew up in California, and knew a whole lot of white kids that would swear they ‘feel more like a black person than a white person’. They listen to the music, use the same mannerisms and speech, embrace the culture, and always identified more with them than others of their own race.
Would all of you who support this woman approve of one of them having their skin artificially darkened and then going around claiming to be just as black as Denzel Washington?
More to the point, would that actually make him black? Would having spotted tattoos applied all over my body make me a freaking leopard? Where do we draw the line exactly?
Headache and Sycko are right, there is no story here – women get pregnant all the time.
(From Wikipedia) Female (♀) is the sex of an organism, or a part of an organism, which produces ova (egg cells). The ova are defined as the larger gametes in a heterogamous reproduction system, while the smaller, usually motile gamete, the spermatozoon is produced by the male.
If you produce eggs, have a womb, and can carry and incubate a child, then you’re just not a man. Sorry.
I see this as offensive, not because it offends my sensibilities or morals, but because I’m a man. How is this any less offensive than a white man in blackface exactly? I grew up in California, and knew a whole lot of white kids that would swear they ‘feel more like a black person than a white person’. They listen to the music, use the same mannerisms and speech, embrace the culture, and always identified more with them than others of their own race.
Would all of you who support this woman approve of one of them having their skin artificially darkened and then going around claiming to be just as black as Denzel Washington?
More to the point, would that actually make him black? Would having spotted tattoos applied all over my body make me a freaking leopard? Where do we draw the line exactly?
Headache and Sycko are right, there is no story here – women get pregnant all the time.
I agree this is not a story for woman have babies all the time. If she wants to be a man she should go all the way not half and half. I think it is a same we even do the surgeries but who am. Oh, and being gay is WRONG.
I agree this is not a story for woman have babies all the time. If she wants to be a man she should go all the way not half and half. I think it is a same we even do the surgeries but who am. Oh, and being gay is WRONG.
Who cares how he identifies himself?
For a long time I believed that transgendered people had moral issues but as I watched more about them, I began to feel that perhaps this is just a different sort of disorder.
You are telling me that the brain can have all sorts of issues such as telling a woman that her cat is locked in the refrigerator forcing her to open the thing 40 times a day to check even though she knows her cat isn’t in there but it’s not possible that this guy’s brain says he is a male, despite what his anatomy says?
Of that a person can be born with both male and female sexual organs as an error in nature but it not be an error in nature but a moral deficiency that a person feels as if they were born into the wrong gender?
The human body is a mysterious thing.
But besides how you feel about it morally, we were born with the gift of free will and regardless of whether you agree with this man’s choice it is his and his wife’s to make.
I wish him and his wife a uncomplicated pregnancy and a healthy baby. I’m sure they will be great parents and since even the neighbors didn’t see him as anything but a man before he became pregnant, I really don’t think the little girl is going catch much flack for it at school. I seriously doubt her parents will be putting up billboards to announce the issue and there will be far more other children who are wearing the wrong style of pants or hand me down sneakers to make fun of.
Who cares how he identifies himself?
For a long time I believed that transgendered people had moral issues but as I watched more about them, I began to feel that perhaps this is just a different sort of disorder.
You are telling me that the brain can have all sorts of issues such as telling a woman that her cat is locked in the refrigerator forcing her to open the thing 40 times a day to check even though she knows her cat isn’t in there but it’s not possible that this guy’s brain says he is a male, despite what his anatomy says?
Of that a person can be born with both male and female sexual organs as an error in nature but it not be an error in nature but a moral deficiency that a person feels as if they were born into the wrong gender?
The human body is a mysterious thing.
But besides how you feel about it morally, we were born with the gift of free will and regardless of whether you agree with this man’s choice it is his and his wife’s to make.
I wish him and his wife a uncomplicated pregnancy and a healthy baby. I’m sure they will be great parents and since even the neighbors didn’t see him as anything but a man before he became pregnant, I really don’t think the little girl is going catch much flack for it at school. I seriously doubt her parents will be putting up billboards to announce the issue and there will be far more other children who are wearing the wrong style of pants or hand me down sneakers to make fun of.
Oh and btw, sex reassignment surgery is expensive as hell and it takes quite a lot of red tape, exams, and a certain amount of time spent under the care of a psycologists before you can surgically get the lower regions taken care of. And last I heard, few insurance providers covered the procedure.
This is the reason why many transgendered, male or female do not go “all the way” as someone above suggested.
Oh and btw, sex reassignment surgery is expensive as hell and it takes quite a lot of red tape, exams, and a certain amount of time spent under the care of a psycologists before you can surgically get the lower regions taken care of. And last I heard, few insurance providers covered the procedure.
This is the reason why many transgendered, male or female do not go “all the way” as someone above suggested.
Scott F., sex and gender are two different things. One is anatomical, the other is and entirely emotional and non-tangental thing. You can be a female anatomically, but know inside that you’re not a woman. Comparing real emotions with the ignorance and racism that accompanied performing in blackface is flat wrong. I suggest you take a class on sex and gender and become more informed ont he subject.
And JustSaying? Being gay is no more wrong than being black or white – it’s the way a person is born. All life is beautiful, and if this loving and stable couple want to bring a child into this world, good for them. I’m sure their daughter will be far better off than millions of children who are born into poverty, disease, and households where drugs and crime are as common as peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
Scott F., sex and gender are two different things. One is anatomical, the other is and entirely emotional and non-tangental thing. You can be a female anatomically, but know inside that you’re not a woman. Comparing real emotions with the ignorance and racism that accompanied performing in blackface is flat wrong. I suggest you take a class on sex and gender and become more informed ont he subject.
And JustSaying? Being gay is no more wrong than being black or white – it’s the way a person is born. All life is beautiful, and if this loving and stable couple want to bring a child into this world, good for them. I’m sure their daughter will be far better off than millions of children who are born into poverty, disease, and households where drugs and crime are as common as peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
I don’t see why people get so hung up on how children need a “traditional family.” I agree with Thomas-love makes a family and these are 2 people who clearly love each other and their unborn daughter and want a child. If a child is loved and accepted by their parents, the gender of the parents doesn’t matter.
I don’t see why people get so hung up on how children need a “traditional family.” I agree with Thomas-love makes a family and these are 2 people who clearly love each other and their unborn daughter and want a child. If a child is loved and accepted by their parents, the gender of the parents doesn’t matter.
I just don’t feel it’s that big a deal because no matter what this man’s brain is telling him, he still had the reproductive organs of a woman. I totally understand the transgender thing. I think it’s cool that he and his wife are doing this. I just don’t understand the hoopla over a female body giving birth. He’s had surgery, yes – had his breasts removed. Otherwise, no matter what his emotions or lifestyle, the body is physically female.
Now if some guy with a penis and testicles and no uterus comes up pregnant, then call me. That’s news.
I just don’t feel it’s that big a deal because no matter what this man’s brain is telling him, he still had the reproductive organs of a woman. I totally understand the transgender thing. I think it’s cool that he and his wife are doing this. I just don’t understand the hoopla over a female body giving birth. He’s had surgery, yes – had his breasts removed. Otherwise, no matter what his emotions or lifestyle, the body is physically female.
Now if some guy with a penis and testicles and no uterus comes up pregnant, then call me. That’s news.
“And JustSaying? Being gay is no more wrong than being black or white – it’s the way a person is born.”
I don’t agree that being gay is wrong, I actually support anyone’s right to be with whomever they want, but that part of your argument kind of refutes the other part. If you claim gays are born that way, and thus are being what they’re supposed to be, then she should have stayed a woman. She’s no more a man than I would be a black man if I painted my face.
“And JustSaying? Being gay is no more wrong than being black or white – it’s the way a person is born.”
I don’t agree that being gay is wrong, I actually support anyone’s right to be with whomever they want, but that part of your argument kind of refutes the other part. If you claim gays are born that way, and thus are being what they’re supposed to be, then she should have stayed a woman. She’s no more a man than I would be a black man if I painted my face.
This little girl will have a far more traditional family that many children now get. Her parents, legally a man and a woman, are married, own a house, live in a decent neighborhood, have a decent income and conceived her deliberately after a lot of thought and planning. Not many children are so lucky.
This little girl will have a far more traditional family that many children now get. Her parents, legally a man and a woman, are married, own a house, live in a decent neighborhood, have a decent income and conceived her deliberately after a lot of thought and planning. Not many children are so lucky.
Also, I don’t know how exactly I need to become more informed on the difference between sexuality and gender – in fact, I think you’re the one who’s confused on the subject. I never once mentioned her sexual orientation. If she was just a normal lesbian having a child with her partner, it wouldn’t bother me at all. It’s not even really the child that bothers me – it’s that this person who is obviously a woman by any practical definition, expects us to treat her as a man.
This is just a woman with no breasts and facial hair having a child. Like I said, not even newsworthy.
Also, I don’t know how exactly I need to become more informed on the difference between sexuality and gender – in fact, I think you’re the one who’s confused on the subject. I never once mentioned her sexual orientation. If she was just a normal lesbian having a child with her partner, it wouldn’t bother me at all. It’s not even really the child that bothers me – it’s that this person who is obviously a woman by any practical definition, expects us to treat her as a man.
This is just a woman with no breasts and facial hair having a child. Like I said, not even newsworthy.
Although we all have the right to our opinions and shouldn’t have to justify them necessarily, it seems ridiculous to me to be upset or offended when someone else’s decision is not affecting you in any way. Live and let live, I say. I personally think it’s great, Mr. and Mrs. Beatie are very brave and are going up against a lot of opposition in order to fulfill their dreams. I think people should be able to live their lives in accordance with what they think is best. Mr. Beatie knows himself better than anyone else, and therefore he should be trusted to make his own decisions.
This may not be an appropriate counterpoint for Scott F, but this is the best I can come up with right now – If I were born a hermaphrodite, would I be required to stay that way because ‘god’ or ‘nature’ or whatever created me that way? Do I not have the choice to determine who I am inside, and therefore make the decision to become male or female anatomically? I saw a story not too long ago about a child who was a hermaphrodite, the parent(s) decided to have her be a girl, and as the child grew up, she did not feel normal, eventually becoming transgender as well. Interesting, I think. I don’t think the blackface/white kids who think they are/want to be black is quite the same type situation.
my last comment, I echo Kolby’s sentiment, this child will be cherished, whereas people have children all the time that are unloved, unwanted and abused. It’s a sad and depressing world we live in, Child abuse and neglect is an everyday thing, almost commonplace, while this story will get everyone riled up.
I sure hope this comment thread stays this cool, I’m sure it will devolve into a pathetic ‘homosexuality is an abomination’ argument, even though that is not even the point here.
Although we all have the right to our opinions and shouldn’t have to justify them necessarily, it seems ridiculous to me to be upset or offended when someone else’s decision is not affecting you in any way. Live and let live, I say. I personally think it’s great, Mr. and Mrs. Beatie are very brave and are going up against a lot of opposition in order to fulfill their dreams. I think people should be able to live their lives in accordance with what they think is best. Mr. Beatie knows himself better than anyone else, and therefore he should be trusted to make his own decisions.
This may not be an appropriate counterpoint for Scott F, but this is the best I can come up with right now – If I were born a hermaphrodite, would I be required to stay that way because ‘god’ or ‘nature’ or whatever created me that way? Do I not have the choice to determine who I am inside, and therefore make the decision to become male or female anatomically? I saw a story not too long ago about a child who was a hermaphrodite, the parent(s) decided to have her be a girl, and as the child grew up, she did not feel normal, eventually becoming transgender as well. Interesting, I think. I don’t think the blackface/white kids who think they are/want to be black is quite the same type situation.
my last comment, I echo Kolby’s sentiment, this child will be cherished, whereas people have children all the time that are unloved, unwanted and abused. It’s a sad and depressing world we live in, Child abuse and neglect is an everyday thing, almost commonplace, while this story will get everyone riled up.
I sure hope this comment thread stays this cool, I’m sure it will devolve into a pathetic ‘homosexuality is an abomination’ argument, even though that is not even the point here.
Scott F. – Gay is not a gender. Sexual orientation is not a gender. What I was saying is that there is a distinct difference between your anatomical sex and how you perceive yourself as a gender. Homosexuals in general do not see themselves as anything other than the sex that they are – men are men, they just happen to be sexually attracted to other men. Transgendered people may be one sex on the outside, but inside they feel they are the opposite of that sex.
It’s no one’s right to tell someone to “just be happy with the way they are,” when we don’t know how other people feel on the inside.
Scott F. – Gay is not a gender. Sexual orientation is not a gender. What I was saying is that there is a distinct difference between your anatomical sex and how you perceive yourself as a gender. Homosexuals in general do not see themselves as anything other than the sex that they are – men are men, they just happen to be sexually attracted to other men. Transgendered people may be one sex on the outside, but inside they feel they are the opposite of that sex.
It’s no one’s right to tell someone to “just be happy with the way they are,” when we don’t know how other people feel on the inside.
I’ve no doubt that the Beatie’s daughter will grow up in a loving happy family & I wish them the best of luck.
I do have one question though: If Thomas stopped taking male hormones awhile ago, why does he still have facial hair? I’m not trying to be glib (I love that word!); I really am curious
I’ve no doubt that the Beatie’s daughter will grow up in a loving happy family & I wish them the best of luck.
I do have one question though: If Thomas stopped taking male hormones awhile ago, why does he still have facial hair? I’m not trying to be glib (I love that word!); I really am curious
Bodhi
the facial hair
what is up with that? is that the testrone harmones? how can that override the estrogen pregnancy hormones? how will the testrone affect a developing fetus?
Bodhi
the facial hair
what is up with that? is that the testrone harmones? how can that override the estrogen pregnancy hormones? how will the testrone affect a developing fetus?
But Scott F. why can’t we go ahead and treat her like a man if that’s what she wants? A little human kindness and generosity towards others feelings go a long way. If “she” wants to live her life as a man why is it too much for her to ask us to treat her like one? What’s the harm in that? We humour our young children when they pretend to be elephants or dogs or heck, my little nephew decided he was a truck not that long ago. He “drove” around the house all day long, making me press his nose every two minutes to honk the horn and “driving” over his mother’s foot whenever she got in his way. It made him deliriously happy that we went along with it. I don’t believe it’s too much to ask for us to treat adults with the same kindness and love and gentleness when they make a decision that makes them happy.
And being upset that this could possibly be considered news when it’s just another “woman” giving birth is a waste of emotions and energy. There is someone who acts like a man and “looks” like a man that is pregnant. That’s going to be news, regardless of whether he’s actually a woman or not. Having people insist that it’s not news because he’s really a woman seems so silly to me. Seriously, having someone who looks like a man being pregnant and giving birth is GOING to be news. It’s just the way the world works. 🙂
And CB, excellent article, I really enjoyed reading it.
But Scott F. why can’t we go ahead and treat her like a man if that’s what she wants? A little human kindness and generosity towards others feelings go a long way. If “she” wants to live her life as a man why is it too much for her to ask us to treat her like one? What’s the harm in that? We humour our young children when they pretend to be elephants or dogs or heck, my little nephew decided he was a truck not that long ago. He “drove” around the house all day long, making me press his nose every two minutes to honk the horn and “driving” over his mother’s foot whenever she got in his way. It made him deliriously happy that we went along with it. I don’t believe it’s too much to ask for us to treat adults with the same kindness and love and gentleness when they make a decision that makes them happy.
And being upset that this could possibly be considered news when it’s just another “woman” giving birth is a waste of emotions and energy. There is someone who acts like a man and “looks” like a man that is pregnant. That’s going to be news, regardless of whether he’s actually a woman or not. Having people insist that it’s not news because he’s really a woman seems so silly to me. Seriously, having someone who looks like a man being pregnant and giving birth is GOING to be news. It’s just the way the world works. 🙂
And CB, excellent article, I really enjoyed reading it.
Last time I’ll comment on this, I just feel the need to clarify my stance.
I guess I didn’t really mean this particular incident bothers me, it’s what it signals in a larger sense that bothers me. We’re entering an age when it will be possible to make changes to our DNA both in the womb and possibly later in life – we don’t know yet.
We really need to start thinking about these things on a case by case basis, and really discussing how far it’s acceptable to go in modifying who we are. I’m just trying to get people to think beyond the ‘if it makes them happy’ argument, to the ‘is this a violation of nature’ part of the question.
Where are we going to draw the line? Sex may be mental, as many here are claiming, but it’s most definitely genetic. Your chromosomes decide what sex you are, not you. When the technology exists to use a retrovirus to retool this woman’s DNA into a man’s (be it 100 years from now or whatever) should she be allowed to do that?
If you allow her to change her DNA, don’t you have to allow a woman who feels that she’s too short? Or a man who doesn’t want to go bald? Nature should dictate what we are, not man. When men do it, it’s called eugenics, and it’s always a nasty business.
Last time I’ll comment on this, I just feel the need to clarify my stance.
I guess I didn’t really mean this particular incident bothers me, it’s what it signals in a larger sense that bothers me. We’re entering an age when it will be possible to make changes to our DNA both in the womb and possibly later in life – we don’t know yet.
We really need to start thinking about these things on a case by case basis, and really discussing how far it’s acceptable to go in modifying who we are. I’m just trying to get people to think beyond the ‘if it makes them happy’ argument, to the ‘is this a violation of nature’ part of the question.
Where are we going to draw the line? Sex may be mental, as many here are claiming, but it’s most definitely genetic. Your chromosomes decide what sex you are, not you. When the technology exists to use a retrovirus to retool this woman’s DNA into a man’s (be it 100 years from now or whatever) should she be allowed to do that?
If you allow her to change her DNA, don’t you have to allow a woman who feels that she’s too short? Or a man who doesn’t want to go bald? Nature should dictate what we are, not man. When men do it, it’s called eugenics, and it’s always a nasty business.
When I first saw this headline, I was shocked that they had discovered a way to make a man pregnant. When I actually read the article and found out that that man is actually a woman. How boring. I’m surprised that this is not more common though since it is easily possible, but I don’t see why it’s newsworthy. Anyway best of luck to them, but I still don’t see how this is news.
When I first saw this headline, I was shocked that they had discovered a way to make a man pregnant. When I actually read the article and found out that that man is actually a woman. How boring. I’m surprised that this is not more common though since it is easily possible, but I don’t see why it’s newsworthy. Anyway best of luck to them, but I still don’t see how this is news.
I am just so happy for them and the way they contribute to making this world a little bit better. They come off as really great, down-to-earth, loving people and everything Thomas said I can only agree 110%.
I wish them all the best in the world, lots of health and happiness and love in the years to come. They are wonderful.
I am just so happy for them and the way they contribute to making this world a little bit better. They come off as really great, down-to-earth, loving people and everything Thomas said I can only agree 110%.
I wish them all the best in the world, lots of health and happiness and love in the years to come. They are wonderful.
I wish Thomas and his wife all the best!!!! Love makes family.
Peace.
I wish Thomas and his wife all the best!!!! Love makes family.
Peace.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet, but I want to thank you CB for addressing him as a “he”. My mother and I were talking about this the other day and she got very angry when I supported Thomas and she kept calling him a “she”. It shows you respect Thomas and his right to be whatever gender he chooses. People like you give me hope that one day we really all will be treated equally.
I haven’t read any of the comments yet, but I want to thank you CB for addressing him as a “he”. My mother and I were talking about this the other day and she got very angry when I supported Thomas and she kept calling him a “she”. It shows you respect Thomas and his right to be whatever gender he chooses. People like you give me hope that one day we really all will be treated equally.
I do agree with Scott F. It does raise an issue of where do you draw the line. I personally have a couple transgender friends, and I don’t believe they deserve harrasment because of thier decisions, when it clearly doesn’t affect me. That being said, I have ethical issues with the fact that a person can inject themselves with a synthetic hormone, and have reconstructive surgery to alter their natural appearance. I have the same issue with people who get breast implants, or who take the birth control pill (tricking your body with synthetic hormones to make your body believe that it is pregnant) because morally, I don’t think you can draw a clear line between the pill and genetically changing yourself to an elephant (if that were to become possible in the future). What if that person really felt like an elephant on the inside, and then their wives (still in their original human packaging) couldn’t get pregnant for some horrible reason? Thankfully, this elephant kept their reproductive organs, so this elephant is now carrying their little girl, but it doesn’t matter that it’s an elephant pregnant with a human, because that elephant will love this baby, and love is what makes a family!
I don’t care that he wants to be called a man, I don’t care that he dresses like a man, I don’t care that he is with a woman, and I don’t care that he is carrying their child. But when it comes to actually being a man, to the extent that his genitalia are physically altered, he’s grown facial hair, has been getting synthetic hormones injected into himself, and getting surgery to remove his breasts, is just the beginning of a slippery slope of genetic modification that I don’t want to even know what that can lead to!
I do agree with Scott F. It does raise an issue of where do you draw the line. I personally have a couple transgender friends, and I don’t believe they deserve harrasment because of thier decisions, when it clearly doesn’t affect me. That being said, I have ethical issues with the fact that a person can inject themselves with a synthetic hormone, and have reconstructive surgery to alter their natural appearance. I have the same issue with people who get breast implants, or who take the birth control pill (tricking your body with synthetic hormones to make your body believe that it is pregnant) because morally, I don’t think you can draw a clear line between the pill and genetically changing yourself to an elephant (if that were to become possible in the future). What if that person really felt like an elephant on the inside, and then their wives (still in their original human packaging) couldn’t get pregnant for some horrible reason? Thankfully, this elephant kept their reproductive organs, so this elephant is now carrying their little girl, but it doesn’t matter that it’s an elephant pregnant with a human, because that elephant will love this baby, and love is what makes a family!
I don’t care that he wants to be called a man, I don’t care that he dresses like a man, I don’t care that he is with a woman, and I don’t care that he is carrying their child. But when it comes to actually being a man, to the extent that his genitalia are physically altered, he’s grown facial hair, has been getting synthetic hormones injected into himself, and getting surgery to remove his breasts, is just the beginning of a slippery slope of genetic modification that I don’t want to even know what that can lead to!
Very good point and well put, Rachel. However, I can’t get over the fact that you can equate taking the pill with an elephant being a surrogate mother of sorts to a human. That’s a bit of a stretch, wouldn’t you say?
We’re all going downhill really fast, but this existential, hypothetical discussion won’t matter after we are all destroyed by the huge meteor that will collide with our planet around 2030. Fuck it.
Very good point and well put, Rachel. However, I can’t get over the fact that you can equate taking the pill with an elephant being a surrogate mother of sorts to a human. That’s a bit of a stretch, wouldn’t you say?
We’re all going downhill really fast, but this existential, hypothetical discussion won’t matter after we are all destroyed by the huge meteor that will collide with our planet around 2030. Fuck it.
It’s Gattaca, people! Run for your lives!
It’s Gattaca, people! Run for your lives!
My point is that it seems like such a stretch now. But it follows a logical sequence of steps that just get more and more extreme, but once you accept one thing as okay, the next step isn’t too far off of that…
My whole point is that when you’re looking at an extreme scenerio, like elephant parent, you can clearly say, that’s crossing the line. But if we can break the boundaries of race, culture, gender, then why not species? When you’re lost in the middle, it’s very hard to morally say “this is where the line is”.
My point is that it seems like such a stretch now. But it follows a logical sequence of steps that just get more and more extreme, but once you accept one thing as okay, the next step isn’t too far off of that…
My whole point is that when you’re looking at an extreme scenerio, like elephant parent, you can clearly say, that’s crossing the line. But if we can break the boundaries of race, culture, gender, then why not species? When you’re lost in the middle, it’s very hard to morally say “this is where the line is”.
wow… you people think too much
the only question you have to ask yourself after reading this is. Did his action hurt you or anyone in any way?
if not, well then you’re happy, they are happy,
lets all have some cookies!
wow… you people think too much
the only question you have to ask yourself after reading this is. Did his action hurt you or anyone in any way?
if not, well then you’re happy, they are happy,
lets all have some cookies!
maybe i’m just skeptical but i still think it’s a hoax.
maybe i’m just skeptical but i still think it’s a hoax.
I see this person as essentially a hermaphrodite. If he was really a man he would have had all of his reproductive organs removed. Or let a surrogant carry the baby. O has had this sort of thing on before, but the people she had on seemed to be comfortable going all the way or just cross dressing.
It is a medical oddity. Transgender people usually state as he does here that they are in the wrong body. Why then go back to you female organs to have a baby?
And headache please. You can’t predict what sort of life the child will have. Just because they have a house etc. Money isn’t everything. Here in the US most children have more than what other kids have around the world, but many still have problems. Many times the problems come from their home lives.
I would like to see after they have the baby what effect this medically has on the fetus, to have been created in a mix of male and female hormones.
But Rachel, It just goes to the idea that you can get a doctor to do anything if you pay them enough. It’s kind of like that 60 year old woman who had the twins, and the doctor said he thought she was 50. Granted she did look 50, but he would’ve done it anyway.
I see this person as essentially a hermaphrodite. If he was really a man he would have had all of his reproductive organs removed. Or let a surrogant carry the baby. O has had this sort of thing on before, but the people she had on seemed to be comfortable going all the way or just cross dressing.
It is a medical oddity. Transgender people usually state as he does here that they are in the wrong body. Why then go back to you female organs to have a baby?
And headache please. You can’t predict what sort of life the child will have. Just because they have a house etc. Money isn’t everything. Here in the US most children have more than what other kids have around the world, but many still have problems. Many times the problems come from their home lives.
I would like to see after they have the baby what effect this medically has on the fetus, to have been created in a mix of male and female hormones.
But Rachel, It just goes to the idea that you can get a doctor to do anything if you pay them enough. It’s kind of like that 60 year old woman who had the twins, and the doctor said he thought she was 50. Granted she did look 50, but he would’ve done it anyway.
Enough with the lovey-dovey me-so-tolerant bullshit. This is a scam designed to make money & nothing more. A man cannot conceive, carry or deliver a child. Period. A woman cannot take some pills, mutilate herself and suddenly become a man. Period. They’re putting one over on an ever-gullible public.
it’s not a man having a child….it’s a woman with her breasts removed.
it’s not a man having a child….it’s a woman with her breasts removed.
this is not a transgender pregnant man. This a woman who is too fucking dumb to realize she is just another pregnant chick.
this is not a transgender pregnant man. This a woman who is too fucking dumb to realize she is just another pregnant chick.
I am in complete awe of how this story is being treated. What if a pre-op transgender MALE with BREASTS were to get a woman pregnant – would the headlines be “First Female to Father A Child!”?
This is beyond ridiculous…..
I am in complete awe of how this story is being treated. What if a pre-op transgender MALE with BREASTS were to get a woman pregnant – would the headlines be “First Female to Father A Child!”?
This is beyond ridiculous…..
What the hell? How did you get pregnant Thomas?! I FUCKED YOU IN THE ASS! NOT THE TWAT!
What the hell? How did you get pregnant Thomas?! I FUCKED YOU IN THE ASS! NOT THE TWAT!
“I have the same issue with people who get breast implants, or who take the birth control pill (tricking your body with synthetic hormones to make your body believe that it is pregnant) because morally, I don’t think you can draw a clear line between the pill and genetically changing yourself to an elephant (if that were to become possible in the future).”
How is preventing unwanted conception a moral issue? It’s a freedom! Besides, some might argue that it’s more immoral to bring unplanned babies into a world that is highly over-populated and in which many other children need homes (not that I necessarily agree with this point — I’m simply presenting the morality of the other side’s view, too).
The birth control pill is also safer than aspirin, which, despite causing internal bleeding and haemorrhagic strokes in regular users, is available without a prescription. As for denigrating the pill because it is synthetic: since when did synthetic necessarily imply dangerous? Aspirin is derived from the not-so-synthetic bark of the willow tree, and it has quite harmful side effects. The world is gray, not black and white, and implying that the birth control pill is as immoral as eugenics is suspect logic at best.
“I have the same issue with people who get breast implants, or who take the birth control pill (tricking your body with synthetic hormones to make your body believe that it is pregnant) because morally, I don’t think you can draw a clear line between the pill and genetically changing yourself to an elephant (if that were to become possible in the future).”
How is preventing unwanted conception a moral issue? It’s a freedom! Besides, some might argue that it’s more immoral to bring unplanned babies into a world that is highly over-populated and in which many other children need homes (not that I necessarily agree with this point — I’m simply presenting the morality of the other side’s view, too).
The birth control pill is also safer than aspirin, which, despite causing internal bleeding and haemorrhagic strokes in regular users, is available without a prescription. As for denigrating the pill because it is synthetic: since when did synthetic necessarily imply dangerous? Aspirin is derived from the not-so-synthetic bark of the willow tree, and it has quite harmful side effects. The world is gray, not black and white, and implying that the birth control pill is as immoral as eugenics is suspect logic at best.
I’m late to this party!
But I do want to point out, Scott F. did not say “being gay is wrong”, someone else by the name “JustSaying” said that.
I like the gattaca theory. I think our world is on the verge of a lot of sticky subjects but it will all blow up soon enough anyway, so let’s not squabble over it!
I’m late to this party!
But I do want to point out, Scott F. did not say “being gay is wrong”, someone else by the name “JustSaying” said that.
I like the gattaca theory. I think our world is on the verge of a lot of sticky subjects but it will all blow up soon enough anyway, so let’s not squabble over it!
If you are born with an ovary, and still have one, you’re a woman. You may act like a man, look like one, and legally proclaim yourself one, but it doesn’t matter.
Someone wrote:
“Scott F., sex and gender are two different things”
Let me call BS on this. This was made up out of thin air back in the 70s. I’ll be generous and say it’s perhaps a hypothetical construct, but to toss it around like it’s Truth is ridiculous.
If you are born with an ovary, and still have one, you’re a woman. You may act like a man, look like one, and legally proclaim yourself one, but it doesn’t matter.
Someone wrote:
“Scott F., sex and gender are two different things”
Let me call BS on this. This was made up out of thin air back in the 70s. I’ll be generous and say it’s perhaps a hypothetical construct, but to toss it around like it’s Truth is ridiculous.
Susan, you’re arguing an irrelevant point. I wasn’t talking about what was safe or not, but for the record, I don’t take aspirin either!
Also Susan, lots of things that are “freedoms” are also moral issues. For instance abortions, a lot of woman think that this is a freedom, but it is also clearly a moral issue (no matter what side your stance is on)
Also, when you’re talking about Morals, you’re talking about ideals. Where in, there wouldn’t be unplanned children brought into an overpopulated world.
Susan, you’re arguing an irrelevant point. I wasn’t talking about what was safe or not, but for the record, I don’t take aspirin either!
Also Susan, lots of things that are “freedoms” are also moral issues. For instance abortions, a lot of woman think that this is a freedom, but it is also clearly a moral issue (no matter what side your stance is on)
Also, when you’re talking about Morals, you’re talking about ideals. Where in, there wouldn’t be unplanned children brought into an overpopulated world.
Rachel – in no way am I talking about ideals. Ideals are about perfection, and morality is about responsibility and “right” social conduct. To avoid entering into a debate about the essential subjective/relative quality of morality that fundamentally makes it impossible to make universal truth claims, let me just clarify that from your own viewpoint, safety is a moral issue:
“getting synthetic hormones injected into himself, and getting surgery to remove his breasts, is just the beginning of a slippery slope of genetic modification that I don’t want to even know what that can lead to!”
Clearly, you are concerned about the safety of genetic modification, alongside its ethical questions. Which is why I responded especially to your comment about birth control, as it is contradictory to associate it with genetic modification –the safety of which you question — and not consider its safety in determining your moral stance on it.
Finally, I felt it was important that you not assume sythetic meant dangerous, as there are obviously natural things that are dangerous and synthetic things that are safe.
Anyways, I’m not here to castigate your opinions, and especially not your own moral viewpoints. I’ve only intended to respond to an interesting dialogue, so I hope you haven’t taken offense to my comments.
Rachel – in no way am I talking about ideals. Ideals are about perfection, and morality is about responsibility and “right” social conduct. To avoid entering into a debate about the essential subjective/relative quality of morality that fundamentally makes it impossible to make universal truth claims, let me just clarify that from your own viewpoint, safety is a moral issue:
“getting synthetic hormones injected into himself, and getting surgery to remove his breasts, is just the beginning of a slippery slope of genetic modification that I don’t want to even know what that can lead to!”
Clearly, you are concerned about the safety of genetic modification, alongside its ethical questions. Which is why I responded especially to your comment about birth control, as it is contradictory to associate it with genetic modification –the safety of which you question — and not consider its safety in determining your moral stance on it.
Finally, I felt it was important that you not assume sythetic meant dangerous, as there are obviously natural things that are dangerous and synthetic things that are safe.
Anyways, I’m not here to castigate your opinions, and especially not your own moral viewpoints. I’ve only intended to respond to an interesting dialogue, so I hope you haven’t taken offense to my comments.
Just because she was able to dupe a state into labeling her a man, doesn’t make it so. Men cannot get pregnant, period. What a joke!!
Just because she was able to dupe a state into labeling her a man, doesn’t make it so. Men cannot get pregnant, period. What a joke!!
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