I always forget that Russell Crowe is on Twitter. I should really start following him, but this morning, Big Russ is cracking me up. Russell caused something of Twitter scandal by using his Twitter to stand up to Big Circumcision (it’s a lobby, right?). Personally, I don’t have a dog on this particular hunt – I can see both sides, both pro and anti-circumcision, and I don’t have one particular preference in my personal experiences with dong. Russell, however, has very strong feelings. Maybe I’m just feeling warm towards Russ because he also took time out to support a woman’s right to choose, or maybe I just like that he interspersed his anti-circumcision tweets with shout-outs for the Newfoundland Folk Festival. It’s all really funny to me.
So… here are some of Russell’s tweets, in descending chronological order. First, Russell retweeted this question: “@russellcrowe Speaking of, my son is due soon. Do you think I should get him circumstanced?” Here is what followed:
one last hint, Newfoundland folk festival
Circumcision is barbaric and stupid. Who are you to correct nature? Is it real that GOD requires a donation of foreskin? Babies are perfect
RT: @russellcrowe Interesting that female circumcision is widely considered barbaric, while male circumcision is so widely accepted.
RT: @russellcrowe: Word! It is time for men to stand up for mens’ and boys’ rights. Circumcision is barbaric and akin to genital mutilation.
many jewish friends, I love my Jewish friends, I love the apples and the honey and the funny little hats but stop cutting yr babies @eliroth
@RealChopperRead @chrismurphys @eliroth Well mate, you cut off your own ears and did yourself out of a Rayban endorsement
@catryan46 same as tattoo’s/ plastic surgery;he is an adult and he “wants” it, then off u go,mothers were right 2 keep their babies intact
I will always stand for the perfection of babies, i will always believe in God, not man’s interpretation of what God requires
Abortion should always be a woman’s choice, there is no benefit to “forced” motherhood…you got it? don’t like it then bye
anyway, Newfoundland folk festival, think about it
RT from Eli Roth: @russellcrowe You didn’t seem to be complaining when I was recutting you this afternoon…
wasn’t intending offense, certainly wasn’t intending to provide fodder for lazy journalists. I can’t appologize for my heartfelt belief
[From Russell Crowe’s Twitter]
HE CALLED OUT ELI ROTH. Like Eli Roth is responsible, as a Jewish director and Twitter-follower, for circumcision. I don’t know… I find this funny. He’s entitled to his opinions, and it’s all good. It’s just a little humor in the morning. I need to start following Crowe’s Twitter.
UPDATE: Big Russ has apologized. He says: “I have a deep and abiding love for all people of all nationalities. I’m very sorry that I have said things on here that have caused distress. My personal beliefs aside I realize that some will interpret this debate as me mocking the rituals and traditions of others. I am very sorry.” BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NEWFOUNDLAND FOLK FESTIVAL?!!?!?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Hilarious…made me almost like him.
Wow, what?
He is against circuncision because he believes in God and babies are perfect the way they are and they souldn´t be multilated, but abortion is ok???
Very contradictory I say! lol
Big Russ is starting to look like ol’ Saint Nick 😉
Crowe is one of my favorite actors. I admire his acting ability plus I love Australians.
To me, his stances on circumcision and abortion seem contradictory. One process removes the foreskin. The other process removes the baby. Yet he finds circumcision to be the more barbaric of the two.
He kills me. He’s still going on about it and replying to people who are tweeting him about it. I love it.
@Larissa. What is so contradictory?
Basically his stance is that nothing should be FORCED on people. Neither the removal of their foreskin, NOR their becoming parents. Its called FREEWILL.
And no, contrary to popular opinion, an UNBORN fetus has very limited rights.
I love his thoughts on abortion and totally agree.
As far as comparing male circumcision to female mutilation…the difference is that with the horrible female mutilation, the clitoris is cut off and then the opening to the vagina is sewn shut. The agony of that, the infections that will surely follow and then the pain of later intercourse and lack of ability to orgasm is horrendous. If you look it up, the examples are just heartbreaking to read and beyond human comprehension how it could ever be allowed.
Plus many of those are done with no anesthesia or even warning. A bunch of people holding you down. It’s too sickening to contemplate.
Male circumcision, if done correctly, simply removes the majority of the foreskin. It does not take away the pleasure.
The key word is “drunk-tweeting” – but I agree that the circumcision thing is not cool in my book (male or female), cutting off what God has put there does not make sense to me
When I watched John Hillcoat’s movie “The Proposition” and I saw Ray Winstone and his raspy, deep voice I thought he was a chubbier, older and a lot more talented version of Russel Crowe.
Now I have to scratch out “chubbier”.
And to think Meg Ryan dumped Dennis Quaid for him…tsk,tsk,tsk.
great actor
It does seem to be contradictory statements, but I appreciate his right to his opinions. I also really like his comparison of female and make circumcision.
Hmm. I’m more intrigued by his repeated mentions of the Newfoundland folk festival. Heaven knows Newfoundland doesn’t get much press.
I agree with him.
Well, thank goodness he’s pro-choice. That almost makes him tolerable.
I don’t get what is so contradictory. In both incidences, he’s saying a person should have agency over their own body. Female, even if pregnant. Male, even if young. Other people shouldn’t decide for the woman. Other people shouldn’t decide for the man.
Mr.Crowe can do no wrong in my eyes… even when he does wrong he some how makes it look sexy he blinds me with his super sexy smile and all is forgiven… that being said to each his own. its your life, your body, your baby, your dong! do with it what you feel will make u happy. AND yes CHRISTIANS can be PRO CHOICE!
Rumor is he’s a major pot smoker. He sure has mellowed out and chunked out.
Male circumcision is IN NO WAY akin to female circumcision. Castration without anesthesia or sanitizers is far more akin to what happens to young girls every day. Whatever your opinions on removing a male’s foreskin, do NOT claim to relate to female circumcision. It’s horrific.
Circumcision – well it is the physical manifestation of a pact between god and the jewish people – I also thought that there were medical benefits to doing the procedure. I say leave it alone – dont mess with it as it seems to not hurt anyone in the long run.
I am also for a women’s choice as it is her body (yes, I know, I seem to be a hypocrite – nothing new in my contradictory views! ha ha )
Russell looks awful. Like Gerald Butler, he is not aging well. Dump the face hair (make you look old), lose 30 pounds (oh if only I could!) and get back to the gym. when you are physically fit, you are fantastic looking. Also, get a haircut.
Enough complaining by me!
Have any of you been with a man without a circumcision? GROSS!! I’m all for it!
Australian Trivia Time!
Chopper Read is a famous aussie criminal, there was a movie about him that Eric Bana starred in. Basically he really did “Chop” off his ears.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopper_(film)
I agree with Brittney (# 18).
And I’m pro circumcision — not from a religious perspective, I just think it looks better and it feels cleaner. If I could I’d only date circumcised men.
Russell and Eli just finished a film together and are good friends. He wasn’t drunk either.
“Circumcision is barbaric and akin to genital mutilation.”
Glad to see most of the commenters here aren’t as ignorant as Russel. See @originalgracie and @Brittney. Regarding FGM, I would also like to add that male circumcision could only be compared to FGM if the tip of the penis and scrotum were removed. FGM makes it impossible for women to experience ANY sexual pleasure. It serves the purpose of making intercourse painful; so that, young women remain virgins until marriage (and will not cheat once married). It’s a patriarchal institution put in place to keep women under the control of men. Male circumcision serves none of these purposes.
@kpist – really? Are you 12? There is no difference when the “action” starts, so what exactly offends you?
His wife is still cute. He sure as hell isn’t.
Have you ever seen an uncircumcised penis? EW!! It looks like a little hooded eel or something gross like that. That is why I will circumcise my sons, so that girls don’t look at their penis and say “EW”. 2 seconds of pain versus a lifetime….circumcision creates a better looking penis and my husband has plenty of pleasure, I wouldn’t want him to have any more if you know what I mean 😉
Besides the religious aspect, circumcision also helps it keep it more cleaner. A female circumcision is alot more invasive, a lot more painful.And most communitites do it, in hopes their children will still more virginal. So I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two. But he has the right to his opinion.
Although I agree with pro-choice stance.
Circumcision decreases the rate of transmission of STDS including HIV (WHO, CDC) so much so that some countries in Africa have huge public health campaigns encouraging men to get circumcised.
Also, I don’t think babies with cleft palates, holes in their hearts, and other treatable congenital abnormalities would reject treatment even if they had the freewill to do so.
@ BetC, Eve & Kpist:
So if a guy took one look at your labia and said “Oh, that’s so gross” and refused to have sex until you trimmed up the skin a little you’d be fine with that?!!
And there is a reduction in pleasure reported by men who have circumcisions as adults, as they lose both the nerve endings on the foreskin and the movement of the foreskin on the glans (head). The US is quickly becoming the only Westernized country where circumcision is allowed for cosmetic purposes on babies – in Europe countries like Sweden have completely banned it on Human Rights grounds.
Well, i can’t say male circumcision bas no impact on the pleasure:1. i’m a woman;2. A male who is circumcised does not know how a man who is not feels during intimacy and Vice versa. I won’t do it to my child, if i ever have a child. Of Ciudad, it’s nit widely spread tradition in europe i think, so i’m not traditionally inclined to it. ( there is tradiion of piercing little girls ears when they are still babies, and i’d never do that too).
I think it would be Better left for the person to decide, but then again-what do i know?
Btw, isn’t it proven that circumcised men are less sensitive?
I love him and miss him on the big screen. He must come back full-time. The last time I saw him was in “The next three days”, highly recommended!
@ #27(can’t see nick): i have never ever seen a circumcised one live, and i don’t think they are eww. I think they are natural as my girly party are. I think it’s a matter of what you are used to.
Oh, and i agree With his free will stance ( pro-choice!!)
@geekylove, I know a few circumcised men who have argued that the (possible) decrease in sensation is okay by them, if it helps them last longer LOL
@ Tapioca:
So if a guy took one look at your labia and said “Oh, that’s so gross” and refused to have sex until you trimmed up the skin a little you’d be fine with that?!!
I so knew someone would bring that sort of argument up…*sigh*
Most men aren’t that picky — they’re men, they’re easy. I don’t think men refuse to have sex with a woman because of the way her labia looks.
Also, I don’t think anyone would ever complain about the way my private parts look (or the way I groom myself for that matter), but if he did that that would be his choice as well, I’d disagree with him and say “go find another one then” (which is something I expect to hear from uncircumcised man in the reversed situation). However, if the guy is the one who wants to get inside my pants, I have the f*cking right to choose if it’s worth it or not (in case he isn’t circumcised) to have sex with him. I know what makes me attracted to a man’s body — and I’m not attracted to foreskin.
I wish I could understand why people get so extremely defensive whenever anyone states an opinion regarding foreskin. Seriously. It’s my preference, if I could I would only date circumcised men.
Haven’t heard much about Russell Crowe in awhile! Drunken tweeting does tend to put one in the spotlight!
I understand the argument of leaving nature alone and not inflicting an adult (& painful) choice on a boy infant, but on the other hand, I also agree with kpist and BetC that uncircumcised penises look totally GROSS. Sorry, Val. And no, I’m not 12. I experienced one once, and I hope it never happens again. Eeuuww.
@jc126. HA. Agreed!
I can understand what he means about circumcision. I circumcised my son without even thinking twice about it because it was what people around me did. I’m American, every man I had seen at that point was circumcised and I believed it was the norm for health benefits.
Now that I’m a little older I realize it isn’t a necessity and it’s very controversial with some people.
Would I do it again now? Probably not. HOWEVER, I can tell you I was with my son the entire time and he didn’t cry once. It was quick (we did the string method – no guillotine for his ween) and completely healed in a few days.
He didn’t even fuss, just sucked on a vanilla pacifier during the procedure. A little dab of Neosporin each day and he was a circumcised boy with no *adverse* effects.
So, while I now don’t think it was necessary for me to do it, I certainly don’t feel I “mutilated” or psychologically damaged my son!
“Speaking of, my son is due soon. Do you think I should get him circumstanced? (sic)
14 hours ago ”
Someone asked him this question and he responded. It wasn’t like he went off for no reason.
BTW, does anyone else think it’s hysterical how chatty and friendly Russell is on Twitter? It totally goes against his image as a grouch.
I agree with all the people here against male circumcision. It is genital mutilation whether you like it or not, and science has recently proven that the foreskin is where much of a man’s pleasure is derived from and that there are no calculable medical benefits from slicing up a baby’s penis. And to the ‘ew’ women, your behavior is abhorrent. So, if a guy thinks your labia is “Ew” or your natural boobs are ‘ew’ or whatever, are you long to go slice up your genitals to make their natural, healthy appearance more arbitrarily appealing to some unfeeling a-hole? And moreover, why would anyone inflict something like that on a baby? You think their natural body is disgusting so you mutilate them before they can even have any input? Seriously, I hope some of you sit down and rethink your life philosophy.
In my opinion the decisions to circumcise or not should be of that individual’s choice, no one elses. Similar to piercings, tatoos or augmentations – this choice should be yours and yours alone.
@ Catherine:
So, if a guy thinks your labia is “Ew” or your natural boobs are ‘ew’ or whatever, are you long to go slice up your genitals to make their natural, healthy appearance more arbitrarily appealing to some unfeeling a-hole?
No, I’d find someone else who is attracted to the way I looked. I sure don’t want a man saying he likes my body just so he can have sex with me but he secretly hates the way I look (you know men often do that).
I don’t understand your logic here. I despise women who change their looks to please “their men” so I don’t think I’d like a man if he did that only for the woman he’s dating. And it’s not that I said I wanted all men to be circumcised, or that all women should only date circumcised men. I for one stated my PERSONAL PREFERENCE which is circumcised men. I didn’t even say it was disgusting — just that it looked better and felt cleaner…TO ME, DAMNIT! You don’t have to agree with it however you have no right to attack me for having that preference.
Uncircumcised men don’t have to schedule their circumcision just because I’d probably decline having sex with them. They can keep their amazingly beautiful foreskin and find another woman who doesn’t mind that at all.
Frankly, whenever I see the word “circumcision” on a Celebitchy’s post I think twice before posting anything, because the moment anyone states they’re ok with circumcision, the thread becomes a “me versus you” battle. Un-f*cking-amazing.
@Eve, I was more directing the comment toward mothers who are inflicting circumcision upon their unspeaking infants due to their own sexual preferences. Bodily integrity should be left intact with individuals being able to choose body modifications for themselves, if they so choose, when they are old enough. I do respect your sexual preference, even though I disagree with the desire for something surgically modified. I personally don’t find circumcision acceptable from a human rights standpoint, but I was directing this more to the moms out there. Also, maybe just something to reflect upon.
Good God. Leave baby boys ALONE. We don’t routinely cut anything off baby girls, so let’s leave the baby boys alone and let them keep all their junk, too, ok?
It’s soon to be a non-issue in the US, as fewer and fewer insurance providers are covering it. It should tell you something that it’s considered “cosmetic genital surgery.”
As for all the ignorance about intact penises, sone women need to grow up and get a grip. Having had both, I prefer an intact penis, both for performance and ease of use reasons. Your cut man had 10,000 nerve endings severed from his junk. Mine did not. Lucky him, lucky me. 🙂
Remember when he was like the HOTTEST thing ever, circa Gladiator? I miss those days…Note to Russell and Leo, paunchy and old is NOT a good look no matter what is on your acting resume.
Someone on Dlisted made this comment about Crowe and I concur…this guy DOES have serious “Assface” going on!
It’s just a whim.
He’s right, it’s disgusting chopping healthy pieces off babies when they’re tiny and defenceless. As to the grown women on here saying ‘ew’ seriously, grow the hell up some more.
i’ve only been with circumscised guys and i can’t imagine them getting more excited than they were.lol
there is nothing more perfect than a newborn baby. to think of putting it under the knife for no scientific reason is ridiculous.
go research the stories about doctors and nurses who have performed them and their stories. like hell it doesn’t hurt.
in regards to cleanliness down there, i think it’s more an issue as to whether the guy is considerate, and conscientious enough in tending to his own personal hygiene. i’ve been with circumsised guys and uncircumcised guys… more uncircumsised, of course, not being Jewish or Muslim, but I’ve had very few issues with even those – i think it’s just that poor hygiene is a major turn-off for me, that is to say, if i even got even a slightest whiff of it standing 3 feet away, it’s a dealbreaker for me, so since i never pursue those, i never had to ‘tolerate’ being close-up to that.
the way the penis is designed, it’s really not at all hard to clean off sweat and peen cheese. *GAGS* k, can’t believe i actually said ‘peen cheese’, but yeah. but uncircumcised means more folds in the skin, and it does tend to sweat, and when sweat gets stale it does tend to give off an odour, just like woman parts. all we can do is clean up nice and often, and hope our men don’t mind too much, when we’re unconscious of that time we forgot one reason or another.
on another note, drunk-tweeted or not, i’m glad russell spoke up – he sort of just suddenly flared up like you’d expect him to. it’s reassuring to see russell being russell. some things never change.
also, i agree with the poster who said he looks more and more like St. Nick. but he still makes me hot – if i sat on his lap, i’m prolly going to get off really fast… errr. but yeah.
Let’s compare the two practices through the lens of Africa:
Female genital mutilation (practiced widely in Africa) completely deprives a woman of any sexual pleasure and opens her up to ongoing health complications including susceptibility to infection.
Male circumcision (not widely practiced in Africa) does not impact a man’s ability to experience sexual pleasure and has actually been shown definitively to DECREASE the spread of infections such as HIV.
Not the same at all, Russ. Not the same at all.
I have two boys and the trend nowadays is to not circumcise (In Canada anyway). My doctors/nurses didn’t ever bring it up. I thought why would I do that to them? For what reason?
As well, I thought it would be good for them to look like their peers when they start playing sports and changing in the same rooms.
If most boys now are not being circumcised, then that is what the next generation women will be used to seeing and no one will think it’s gross.
Dear Celebrities, Politicians, etc.
Your use of all types of social media has greatly increased my enjoyment of the web. Sign in, have a few (many) cocktails, and start typing. Keep up the good work.
TD
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
Yes I am a mother, yes I am Jewish, yes my son had a bris, yes it was an agonizing moment for me, yes he bled, yes he cried, yes he got over it within 30 seconds, yes he is perfectly healthy, no I do not regret it for a moment. It was done both for religious reasons, and also because the medical information in favor of circumcision is pretty overwhelming. But, what’s good for the goose is not always good for the gander, so if a mother were to choose not to, that’s cool with me. What San Francisco’s trying to do, though, is not cool, both because of the high rate of HIV in that city, and because of the uncomfortable anti-Jewish overtones in the legislation.
For women who complain about the look of uncircumcised penises, may I just tell you that a guy in a debate a few years ago said in response; well a woman’s vulva is not very pleasant to look at, either. It looks like a cabbage sliced in half. So maybe women would look better with the inner layers sliced off? Would be easier to clean, too. Just food for thought for those who say uncirced penises aren’t nice-looking. Also, coming from a country where circumcision is all but banned, like the vast overwhelming population of the world, bar USA, the general consensus here and all around the world is that since circumcision is a human rights issue, and since it provides zero health benefits, that eventually it will also be banned in the US, too. Thank goodness. People are lobbying hard right now, and from what I hear, it will not be long before America falls into line with the rest of the world and bans this practice.
Circumcision is soon to be a thing of the past, excluding those whose religious beliefs mandate it or medical issues with the foreskin (it happens occasionally). Might as well just get used to it. Times change, people.
full disclosure: I am a Jewish woman
I’ve been with men who are circumcised and men who are intact and, frankly, while I derive great pleasure from a penis it’s downright goofy looking whether it’s wearing a turtleneck or not.
I have been to bris’s and to baptisms and, in my experience, I’ve heard babies cry more at a baptism (is the water cold?) than at a bris (the baby cries when the diaper is removed but not so much while the mohel is doing his thing).
I know men who were circumcised for (medical reasons) as adults who said they wish they had been circumcised as infants because it’s a full scale operation with general anesthesia when done later (and is excruciatingly painful). They also said that it didn’t make a significant difference in regard to sex (that is, when they were willing to let anyone other than themselves near their penis again).
I work in the medical profession and every cardiovascular surgeon with whom I’ve worked (and these include guys based in the Ozarks and other places where boys weren’t routinely circumcised back in the day) have horror stories about their patients foreskin emergencies as well as dealing with diabetics who didn’t get snipped when their doctors suggested it: these guys would all tell me to circumcise my boys when I had children.
One of my brother’s friends asked for my advice about circumcision when he found out he and his wife were having a boy. I told them that even if I weren’t Jewish, I would have my sons circumcised because I have a pretty ugly family medical history rife with diabetes and peripheral vascular disease and I’d rather circumcise prophylactically when it is safer, less painful (nerve endings not all the way to the tip) and less traumatic than have my son have to go through that ordeal as an adult (or, worse yet, as an older kid or teenager). I also told him that I’d still have a mohel do it (even if I weren’t Jewish) instead of a pediatrician at the hospital. In short, I told him to consider whatever reasons for a circumcision carefully and not to do it just because everyone else was. In the end, he and his wife decided to circumcise (though the reason they made the decision was because he was afraid his son would never forgive him if girls wouldn’t go down on him because they were skeeved by the turtleneck).
I can understand why people have a problem with the procedure but comparing it to female genital mutilation and regarding them as, essentially, the same shows a great lack of knowledge and undermines the severity of what FGM is.
Enny – c. is not a cure for hiv, you can still get it, so what being non-c. has to do with the high rate of hiv?
Yes, Russel Crowe was NOT contradicting himself. I agree with his view point on circumcision.
However, I am torn about it because medically speaking circumcising lowers the risk of getting sexually transmitted diseases. On the other hand I feel that the foreskin was put there for a reason, no need to take it off. So one day, if I have a son, I guess I will have to leave it up to my partner to help me decide.
On a side note, I don’t understand why some women find un-cut one’s repulsive. It’s not, so why find it that way. There’s nothing wrong with that. I don’t think the penis is ugly with or without it’s foreskin.
@ Eve, I have no idea why people are getting so disgruntled about what you like in a penis. I am in complete agreement with you…uncircumcised penis’ gross me out. I slept with an uncirucmcised man once and got a nasty bacterial infection. Enough said.
#59 -totally cosign everything you said. As a nurse in urology, we have lots of 3+ year old boys coming in for circumcisions.
#60 being circumcised doesnt cure HIV, nobody said that, it cuts down the chances of being infected with it.
To the women who dont like non-circ, i totally agree. And what difference does it make what they look for in a man? To me it is the same as saying i like guys with blue eyes, dark hair and athletic. No big deal.
And yes, saying you could have aborted the boy at anytime in your pregnancy is okay, but circing is wrong is hypocritical. If i was a full term boy i would rather have a circ than a pair of scissors rammed inot my skull and having my brain scrambled.
The study that was conducted in Africa and which is often quoted by the Pro circumcision lobby was of 9 (yes nine!) men in a country rife with HIV and Aids. This study is nowhere near relevant in the USA!!!!!
The whole cleanliness thing is a crock too – do Americans seriously think that the rest of the world goes around smelling of crotch rot? You just have to shower people – it’s quite simple!!!!
Circumcision is barbaric and the sooner it is NOT a routine practice for young American born boys, the better!
@Eve – I am fascinated as to why you can’t just date circumcised men – it’s a pretty easy question to ask “Are you circumcised?” Just trips off the tongue 😉
Yay for Russell – the more we can bring these issues into discussion the better!
Kimble there have been many studies in Africa of circumcision:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
All of them show a drastic decline in HIV.
Circumcision is hardly barbaric. Moslems and Jews have been doing it for millenia.
Circumcision is not barbaric. Period. If you don’t want to do it to your children, fine. Those of you who say it is barbaric have obviously never witnessed it. I would never force you to have your children circumcised, so why do you try to impose your beliefs on me, or say it’s barbaric, or say it’s a thing of the past? Why should it be a thing of the past? Because you say so? Because you believe it should be? G-d, people, get over yourselves.
#65 Very well said. People should just butt out of other people’s business.
@duh – here you go, sweets.
Compared with the dry external skin surface, the inner mucosa of the foreskin has less keratinization (deposition of fibrous protein), a higher density of target cells for HIV infection (Langerhans cells), and is more susceptible to HIV infection than other penile tissue in laboratory studies [2]. The foreskin may also have greater susceptibility to traumatic epithelial disruptions (tears) during intercourse, providing a portal of entry for pathogens, including HIV [3]. In addition, the microenvironment in the preputial sac between the unretracted foreskin and the glans penis may be conducive to viral survival [1]. Finally, the higher rates of sexually transmitted genital ulcerative disease, such as syphilis, observed in uncircumcised men may also increase susceptibility to HIV infection [4].
I had my son circumcised, and they did it the day after he was born. For sanitary & aesthetic reasons, I chose to do this. A few weeks ago my now-22 year old son was talking about a friend’s reaction to having circumcision done (the friend was in his 20s and his fiance was insisting he have it done) and I explained to my son that mothers are given the option to have it done after the baby is born. I told him why I had them do it, and after he saw some photos of what an uncircumcised penis looked like, and the possible bacterial build-up etc, he said he was glad that I had had that done when he was too little to know the difference. He doesn’t think I had him mutilated and that’s good. I don’t understand all this fuss about male circumcision, but the FGM? Omg it’s horrible.
Enny: the medical blabber you paste-copied from another site doesn’t say anywhere that once you are c. you are hiv-free for life. You can still get the disease. And since you didn’t even care to include the sources and the numbers, it’s all RUBBISH.
Duh,
I already posted the link for the source, which is the CDC. I know many people don’t trust the government, but I think it’s a reasonably reliable source to post here, and if you don’t agree with it, you are free to do further exploration.
No one ever said that circumcision cures HIV. That’s ridiculous – where did you get that from what I’ve said here? I’m pretty sure all I ever said was that it can help prevent transmission, which I think we can all agree is a good thing. Relax – it’s Friday afternoon! Have a mojito! Chill out! Think pleasant thoughts! And for G-d’s sake, read before you post! It would save us all a lot of time!
XO, Enny
duh, the CDC studies never said that you wont get HIV when you are circumcised, but that the chances of getting it if you are is 50% less likely than not being circed.
I’ve had a crush on this man since I was 14 and it’s still going strong…
However, I agree with those pointing out that female circumcision (i.e. female genital mutilation) is in no way comparable to male circumcision. Anyone familiar with those procedures knows this.
Enny: I was talking about the copy-pasted thing you posted which didn’t include any source.
Of course you are free to do whatever you want but when you are saying:
“What San Francisco’s trying to do, though, is not cool, both because of the high rate of HIV in that city”
it sounds as if c. was the only way to avoid hiv and other std while all you need to do is use condoms and common sense. I don’t think it’s safe to think “since I’m c. – I don’t have to worry about std’s because I’m 50% less likely to get it”!
All in all, peace & love.
Most women prefer circumcised men. Why is that? It’s because no woman can refuse 10% off.
It’s all fun and games to say you prefer cut dongs. But feel sorry for women who get circumcised it still happens today. I also think Russell was defending babies who don’t get a choice. Plus I don’t think he said those things to be malicious. Political correctness gone mad…
If boys are not meant to have a foreskin they wouldn’t be born with one. I don’t see the point of circumsion except if someone is religious.
I don’t know about circumcision. My first guy, and another one – one of my absolute fave boyfriends – were uncircumcised (the latter was born prematurely and they didn’t bother, the second was born in the Azores). Frankly, physically, the skin turned me off. BUT – it’s not MY skin, you know? So I don’t feel like I should say “all guys should be cut” or cite aesthetic reasons as a reason to get cut. That could theoretically be said by sickos who female-castrate (and it is more analogous to castration than circumcision).
Yet, it doesn’t always work out to stay uncircumcised. One of my younger family members was uncircumcised, and he ended up having to get circ’ed a few years later because of recurrent infections or something. Not hygiene related, I don’t know what it was.
Ruby, what do you mean by “most women prefer cricumcised penises?” 85% of the world’s male population is NOT circumcised! So where would these most women be?
All this talk of bacteria and grossness is just stuoid and ignorant. WE have more folds and crap down south than an intact man. Are you walking around srinking of crotch rot or donyou just do simple thungs like bathe? Well, intact men only have to take half a second to push back their foreskin in the shower to clean up. Less time than it takes us, I’m sure.
I’m starting to think women make up thses stories of intact men that reek and give them infections. It’s just not borne out by reality, unless all of us women reek MORE and have MORE “bacteria” in our junk.
Educate yourselves. The male of our species is not so defective that they all require surgery on their genitals at birth. Geez.
@Catharine,” @ Eve, I was more directing the comment toward mothers who are inflicting circumcision upon their unspeaking infants due to their own sexual preferences.”
Actually, it was my husband who insisted our sons be circumcised. I was opposed to it. However, he and several friends told me they would be ridiculed in the locker room if the other boys saw their “anteater penises.” I left it up to my husband because he’s the one with the circumcised penis and circumcising our sons was important to him. He must not have felt as though the circumcision was an impediment in any way, and that was good enough for me.
@ol cranky, very well put.
@enny, also well said.
I don’t know who many of you have heard of this “movement,” but in San Francisco, they have actually received enough public support to put a BAN ON MALE CIRCUMCISION ON THE BALLOT. FOR. REAL. Now, I’m no theologian, and I’m not a politico, but that smacks of religious bias (i.e. the Jewish faith) to me.
My oldest son is circumcised; my youngest is not. I was a lot younger when I had my oldest (19) and didn’t fully understand it – I just thought it was “the norm.”
There is some evidence that circumcision reduces the transmission of STD’s, but don’t quote me on that because I haven’t read all the studies. Also, uncircumcised males CAN have a higher incidence of urinary tract infections.
Also, FGM IS a BARBARIC PRACTISE and should be STOPPED.
Some group claimed that he was being anti-Semitic, which I didn’t see his comments that way. Eli Roth jumped to his defense, and I trust his judgement on this. Oh, and Roth’s comments were funny!
@Enny
Compared with the dry external skin surface, the inner mucosa of the foreskin has less keratinization (deposition of fibrous protein), a higher density of target cells for HIV infection (Langerhans cells), and is more susceptible to HIV infection than other penile tissue in laboratory studies [2]. The foreskin may also have greater susceptibility to traumatic epithelial disruptions (tears) during intercourse, providing a portal of entry for pathogens, including HIV [3]. In addition, the microenvironment in the preputial sac between the unretracted foreskin and the glans penis may be conducive to viral survival [1]. Finally, the higher rates of sexually transmitted genital ulcerative disease, such as syphilis, observed in uncircumcised men may also increase susceptibility to HIV infection [4].
thanks for this informative piece. i’ve never read an in-depth study on circumcism, until now. while i would never recommend circumcism for aesthetic reasons only, or even upon the assumption of HIV disease prevention based on ‘hearsay’, this seems to make a good argument for it.
and i agree with most of the posters who suggest that it be done while their sons are newly born – it would have been less psychologically ‘painful’/traumatic without the full consciousness a grown man would have to endure, knowing what he is just about to go through.
@ Catherine:
@Eve, I was more directing the comment toward mothers who are inflicting circumcision upon their unspeaking infants due to their own sexual preferences.
I understood that, but since I had been put in the same group as those who had written things like “eeewww” (an expression I NEVER use, by the way) and “it’s so gross” by some posters before (you posted your comment) I didn’t know if you’re implying that as well.
Later on I realized I should have added “you, generally speaking” between parethesis when I said this:“You don’t have to agree with it however you have no right to attack me for having that preference.”, and wanted to correct a silly mistake I made in the last paragraph (I wrote “un-f*cking-amazing” when I actually wanted to say “un-f*cking-believable”) but I couldn’t because the internet here went down. I’m sorry if I ended up sounding aggressive, because I didn’t mean to be.
I found that twit convo endearing. And I generally dislike Russell Crowe. He’s obviously calling out Eli Roth as a friend, as a joke between them, something they have joked about in the past.
However, The REASON that American hospitals recommend circumcisons is hygenic. Circumcized men are less like to contract and spread stds.
@ MariPili:
@ Eve, I have no idea why people are getting so disgruntled about what you like in a penis.
Me neither! I tried to be as clear as I could, I explained carefully it was a matter of choice, of how I personally felt about it yet I was received with aggressiveness by some posters.
I have dated uncircumcised men and they were clean (one was even squeaky clean, by the way) but I felt better with the circumcised guy. I just felt it looked better, it was better to the touch and other things I’m not going to mention here. Again, my choice: it’s my body, I think I have the right to decide what goes inside it.
@ Kimble:
@Eve – I am fascinated as to why you can’t just date circumcised men – it’s a pretty easy question to ask “Are you circumcised?” Just trips off the tongue.
I know, just three words…but it’s an invasive question, you have to admit. And to make things worse (for myself) I live in a country where circumcision is not popular. Perhaps I should try to find out where the Jewish guys and Muslims hang out here. I have no problems with these religions as long as there isn’t fanaticism.
@ Anastasia – the reference to ladies liking circumcised penises is to do with the figure 10%. As in what woman would turn down 10% off anything i.e 10% off the price! Who us going to pass off a bargin. Lol my boss told me that joke.
People are still allowed to have and voice their personal opinions, aren’t they?
Lisa Turtle: so instead of teaching young men to USE CONDOMS, you advocate surgically removing part of their penis at birth?
Wow. That’s just insane. Especially since the study did not cover all STDs, but only HIV and was only conducted on NINE MEN in Africa. Hardly an appropriate sample size or an applicable study.
I see why they call circumcision the “cure” in search of a disease. It was originally done by non-Jews to stop boys and men from masturbating. When that obviously didn’t work out, other reasons were invented for it. Crazy.
“aborted the boy at anytime in your pregnancy is okay, but circing is wrong is hypocritical. If i was a full term boy”
Sam, no one is talking, or has even MENTIONED full-term pregnancy abortions, except for you. Full term ie the sizzors method, is so rarely don’t it barely rates in the stats. If the only way you can be against abortion is by focusing on full term (and almost always done because the mother and baby will die so it its a necessity, anyway that even the churches agree with there), rather than honestly dealing with the fact that when the majority of abortions are done, its only an embryo, and not even a fetus, let alone a child, then thats sad. Fact is, there is no way anyone can rationally say Russell was being hypocritical, since abortion is the removal of a non-entity, whereas circumcision is the removal of part of a boy’s genitals. Period. End of story.
Oy vey–I had to post.
I’m American. I grew up just as conditioned to *not thinking there was any other option* growing up, it was such a *non-thing* that I simply didn’t question one way or the other. However, I am forever grateful for my British husband and what is now complete and utter NORMALCY–the intact penis. Circumcised penises look dry, typically have a scar, and there is nothing at all attractive about it. Intact penises are merely GROSS TO YOU because a majority of men (not so much these days, thank goodness) were circumcised and therefore no one knows anything differently. It is only gross because you were never able to witness it as “normal” when in fact it IS normal and not at ALL gross. The normal, intact penis looks as it ought to, not gross. The circumcised penis looks scarred and surgically altered.
I never at all cared for Russell Crowe, but I appreciate his little rant. And like others say–he is standing up for the right of the people to make choices about their OWN body.
My son, born in the UK, is as expected intact and left as he should. There is proper intact “care” (which is leave it alone, basically) and knowledge here and most people have no issues whatsoever.
STDs and HIV/etcetera are prevented or the risk is dramatically decreased through safe sex and condoms, which are far less permanent and damaging than circumcision. HIV can still enter into the male body circumcised or not. A bunch of bologna.
You are conditioned to think the normal penis is gross. I’m sorry that what society dictates, you follow. I’m sorry that the normal form isn’t good enough. The normal functionality is certainly lost in circumcision, not that you would know, and not that the person whom is circumcised would know, as they have no point of reference.
There are several forms of female genital mutilation/circumcision, by the way. A cut, to anyone, anywhere, against their own personal freewill, inflicted upon them by someone else, is nt all right and is not “no big deal.” Just because society *currently* deems it acceptable (for male babies, of course, but female babies are fully protected by law… shame boys do not have this right.)
It is NOT a “personal decision” for the parents. It would ONLY be a “personal decision” for the parents if they were deciding to surgically alter and/or remove any part of their body for themselves. Their own body. Not the body of their child. They are an individual who should be shown guidance on how to care for their body, and then leave it up to them for any surgical alterations in the future. They will be the ones to live in their bodies the entirety of their life, so why make a decision that is very obviously theirs to make?
There is nothing “dirty” about the intact penis. It is an organ, much like the vagina, that has processes in place to self-cleanse with good, healthy bacteria (smegma, yes… it is NOT DIRTY… and WOMEN HAVE THE SAME THING!) and because people’s own lack of knowledge, ESPECIALLY IN THE USA, about proper intact care (i.e. LEAVE IT ALONE) and forced retraction when the foreskin is still fused to the glans (which protects the sensitive penis) creates infection and adhesions that sometimes makes itself apparent as a problem later in life. All of these problems can be avoided, with knowledge, and above all else… leave it alone. Always. The boy will know when he can move it freely, and like your daughter… I’m sure you’ll show him how to take a bath and/or shower. Done deal. Easy.
Love, an American in the UK. 😉
Anastasia & Madison – I agree with you 100%!
When are people going to realize that twitter is not just between you and a couple of friends? If you don’t want you views known to the world, then for the love of all that is holy, don’t put it out there, then have to apologize.
The same goes for Tracy whoever. There are cell phones tht record and take pictures so nothing is private if you are in public. Then saying, oh sorry, I was misinterpreted. Thinking before your speak or tweet should be re-emphasized.
I’m English but I’ve been with both circumcised and not. I much prefer not circumcised, its much easier to “play” with because you don’t need lube for hand jobs and I think the the skin is kind of cute. I mean it’s just really soft and not disgusting at all. If your man has good hygiene then it wont smell.
Plus circumcised men have that kind of scar “tan line” look which i dont think looks attractive although I wouldn’t say “ewww” at one because thats just childish.
IMO I like foreskins on men. It’s not gross or ugly … just completely natural. And anyway it’s not visible in the most important moments! (do I have to draw a picture)
My first serious boyfriend was uncircumcized and it was not “gross” or “ewww” at all. There is nothing disgusting or embarrassing about a natural penis and all the posters insisting there is really need to grow the hell up. What if a man thought that way about natural breasts and he only found fake breasts attractive? Sure, you have the right to a “personal preference,” but that doesn’t mean you’re not a shallow a-hole.
Oh my GAWD, can’t believe I didn’t skim those posts earlier! I am SHOCKED by some comments about preference of cir. vs. uncir!!
If a message board, comprised mainly of MEN were discussing women’s vagina’s and how they preferred their women to have their inner labia sliced out or their clitoral hood removed or else it was “gross” it would be UNACCEPTABLE. It would be labeled misogynistic, chauvenistic, rude, over the line, etc…More than anything, it’s the HYPOCRISY some of these posters demonstrate that gets to me…
Honestly, I went through a procedure called labioplasty (vagina surgery! how fun :S Most women get it for cosmetic reasons)because I felt my vagina wasn’t “pretty” and let me tell you! It HURT like a MOTHER, I couldn’t pee (or, ‘scuse my overshare, but the other toilet activity) without excruciating pain. I had to have this procedure for reaons beyond cosmetic but your privates are your PRIVATES…My own admitted ignorance prevents me from commenting on those who do it for religious purposes (ie: Jewish) but for anyone else, it’s the most sensitive part of your body! Both physically sensitive and how-we-feel-about-it- sensitive..One dumb comment like “sorry, your vagina is gross” is HURTFUL, and men have feelings too!! If I had it to do again, I would never have had that procedure done, and I would discourage men from choosing it because they fear someone will find them “gross”…Performance is identical. And my uncircumisized man is clean as a whistle becuase he has good HYGEINE, NOT becuase someone cut away a piece of him and threw it in the trash.
***I know there are men who comment here too, but if I’m not mistaken, it’s overwhelmingly women and girls commenting here***
LOL @ Dingles
Thanks for the laugh!
These posters got me all cereal up in hur’ lol
Female circumcision is in no way comparable to male circumcision. It’s more like male castration.
Well said, Gena. And Lisa, I strongly doubt any secular hospital would weigh in pro or con about circumcision. The AAP doesn’t even take a stance on it. But you may be interested to know that when my son was born, no fewer than two doctors and two nurses said “thank you” to me for not having him cut. Clearly, not their favorite surgical procedure.
i will not judge women who say they prefer the look and feel of an uncircumcised penis – why can’t they like what they like – what’s wrong with that!?
they’re not even remotely saying that to their guy – that would just put pressure on the guy. just sharing an anonymous heartfelt confession on a message board directed more to OTHER girls, here.
if i had to make a list of physical attributes, i’d be honest and say i prefer my men be taller than me (i’m 5′ 4″, so that’s not really hard to find), and have good teeth and skin (now that can be a bit tricky, sometimes). I’ve never dated men outside this range of physical attributes, and if you call me picky or shallow, i can live with that, but i’m pretty certain you will have your own list of attributes that will make you look picky and shallow to another person, too. if you say you don’t, there’s a chance you might be hiding it even from yourself. dig deeper.
I’m just a little confused about being all up in arms about a foreskin, but seeing nothing wrong with aborting a baby. Go ahead, slam away at me.
I never, ever realized circumcision was such a hot topic until I became pregnant with a boy. Man o man.
I really don’t understand how a person opened her mouth one day and the next apologized! Very bipolar attitude!
He must understand he thinks what he thinks in his bathroom!
He’s hilarious. In once won tickets to see a band at a local church–it was Russell Crow’s band, isn’t that strange? He shows up in random places with this band he fronts and he was great, people apparently follow him around. I was surprised how accessible he actually is, he had, like, an after party in the rec room afterward, lol. He’s quite a character, I like him. As for the controversy, criminey, people need to lighten up…
I personally am for circumcision for cleanliness issues but to each his own. If this makes Russell Crowe anti-Semitic what the H does it make the city of San Francisco. I’d rather have some random guy try to tell me what to do with my son than the government. He can’t make me, they can.
@beth – to your point. I’m about your height and I have never dated a man under 5’10”. I actually have not done this totally on purpose but I am not attracted to a man who is 5’6″. On the flip side I have a friend who is 6′ tall her man is 5’7ish.
Gena, I think I love you.
And klimp.. you’re definitely right about the HJ thing!
It’s utterly absurd to perform needless cosmetic surgery on a baby boy’s penis. We don’t routinely remove people’s appendix or tonsils simply because they’re “unneccesary” and might cause a problem at some point in life. So why do it with a foreskin?
My 4 year old son is not circumcised and has NEVER had a single infection or other issue. He bathes, and he washes himself. Problem solved, simple as that.
Anyone who opposes all forms of female circumcision but not male is either ignorant or just plain ethnocentric. The removal of the clitoral hood(a common form of FC) is completely analogous to the removal of the foreskin. Both are needless cosmetic surgery done in the name of blind conformity.
This makes me like him. And I LOVE that he’s friends with Chopper Read, that’s hilarious and says so much!
@Luls –“And no, contrary to popular opinion, an UNBORN fetus has very limited rights.”
I always get confused when it comes to the rights of unborn babies. I’m definitely not trying to be argumentative or judgmental, though. For example – In cases where a pregnant woman is attacked, & both the woman & unborn baby are killed… The attacker can be charged with 2 murders. (Or if the woman survived, but the pregnancy was lost as a result… The attacker could be charged with murder.)
The unborn child is recognized by the law as a ‘life’ in criminal cases (as you can’t ‘kill’ something the court doesn’t see as being ‘alive’, but not with abortion (which is ending a pregnancy by force). I find that to be contradictory.
@OriginalGracie – I completely agree with your reasons why male & female circumcision really can’t be compared. The entire purpose behind the procedures is completely different. I’m not sure where I stand on male circumcision, as I’d not given it much thought. My parents had my brother done at the hospital, & mentioned ‘hygiene’ as a reason (they claim it’s easier to ‘clean’ downstairs without the foreskin. But I wouldn’t know xD)
I’m re-reading Carl Sagan’s _Demon-Haunted World_, and I was reminded of this story. I quote:
“[T]enets at the heart of religion can be tested scientifically. This in itself makes some religious bureaucrats and believers wary of science. Is the Eucharist, as the Church teaches, the flesh of Jesus Christ, or is it – chemically, microscopically, and in other ways – just a wafer handed to you by a priest? Will the world be destroyed at the end of the 52-year Venus cycle unless humans are sacrificed to the gods? *Does the occasional uncircumcised Jewish man fare worse than his co-religionists who abide by the ancient covenant in which God demands a piece of foreskin from every male worshiper?* Are there humans populating innumerable other planets, as the Latter Day Saints teach? Were whites created from blacks by a mad scientist, as the Nation of Islam asserts? Would the Sun indeed not rise if the Hindu sacrificial rite is omitted (as we are assured would be the case in the Satapatha Brahmana)?” [p. 275, emphasis mine]
Sagan is of Jewish heritage (though that should of course be irrelevant to the quality of ideas), and doesn’t seem to consider the death of this practice anti-semitic.
Slavery is also explicitly endorsed in the Torah; should we consider opposition to the same to be anti-semitic? The permanent disfigurement of baby boys should not be considered to have any racial or ethnic significance. Instead, we should look at it the same way we look at female genital mutilation in parts of the Muslim world; religion is no excuse for barbarism.