I LOVE Elizabeth Banks. I rarely get to talk about her, but I think she’s one of the coolest ladies in Hollywood these days. She’s smart, she’s sassy, she’s talented, she works on a wide variety of projects and she’s a passionate advocate for issues that many celebrity women are afraid to take up, like reproductive choice and Planned Parenthood. Anyway, my excuse to talk about Banks this week is her new interview in New You Magazine. Some highlights:
Sex and shame: “It’s a huge disservice to young people to put shame into the equation. That’s what bothers me the most about it and why I speak so openly about sex. I promote safe sex, always, and abstinence until you are madly in love. But at the same time I have no desire to shame any young person about what’s going on in their life or about general sexuality or their bodies.”
The work/motherhood balance: “I balance it by always putting my children’s health and safety first. Then I feel OK to go and do the job I love. It’s important to remember that I face the same challenges as many other working parents out there. I don’t think dads do it as well as moms, quite frankly, as I don’t think there’s any pressure on them to balance anything in their lives when it comes to parents being at work. I try not to feel that pressure, either. I actually have a girlfriend who works in the justice department, going after criminals and the mafia, and she’s got three kids. Parenting is challenging any way you slice it.”
Never believing she was pretty: “Your funny gets developed pretty early on. I didn’t quite believe I was pretty for a long time. I never thought about it. I’m very genetically blessed, I cannot deny it, but I work hard at keeping myself together. Yes, I have nice cheekbones and skinny legs but I can’t take any credit for it.”
Don’t you love her? I’m in love with her. She’s so un-Goopy. She talks about working motherhood by acknowledging that every mom feels pressure and by pointing out that society doesn’t make dads feel those same pressures. And I love what she says about shame and sex. There is so much of that going on in politics today, but let’s be real: it’s been happening in politics for decades, for centuries. It’s always “good politics” to shame young people (specifically young women) for having sex.
Incidentally, y’all: Elizabeth’s next projecs is DIRECTING Pitch Perfect 2. She produced the first one and she’s going to helm the sequel. I’m so proud of her!
Photos courtesy of WENN, Fame/Flynet.
Wasn’t she the one who gave an interview years ago about how hard it was to be so beautiful? Correct me if I’m wrong.
“It’s always “good politics” to shame young people (specifically young women) for having sex.” Wuh? Do you read any women’s magazines, Kaiser? Pretty much every one one encourages “friends with benefits,” “sex for fun,” etc. Look, I’m not judging – I don’t care what people do as long as they’re healthy and safe. But I don’t get this idea some people promote that we “shame” people about having sex. Popular culture seems quite the opposite these days.
That being said, I started liking Elizabeth Banks after I found out she was the force behind “Pitch Perfect.” That was a great female film. Much better, IMO, than “Bridesmaids.”
Women’s magazines are one thing but they are not nearly as powerful as male, white politicians in this country. Forget popular culture as being a gauge on what is and is not acceptable for women and pay attention to the hacking up of rights for women. It all stems from shame. Christ, the Hobby Lobby decision just made it okay to deny women the right to birth control. You know what that stems from? From a religious family, led by a man, thinking women shouldn’t need birth control because they shouldn’t be having premarital sex and should never, ever want to wait to have a baby until they’re ready. It all stems from shame. Women are shamed for wanting and having sex and men are almost never, ever subject to that shame.
I am no fan of the SCOTUS decision, but it does not deny birth control outright. It denies four specific methods of birth control, including the abortion pill. You are of course, free to disagree with the decision (as do I) but to say it just bans “birth control” when it only denies four things ruled to be possible abortifacients is misleading.
@Marigold -I’m happy to discuss/debate on facts, but let’s stick to facts, not hysteria. Propaganda is wrong no matter who it’s coming from.
*Name ONE “white, male politician” who has actually denied or even tried to deny access to birth control, or who tried to stop women from having sex.
*”Christ, the Hobby Lobby decision just made it okay to deny women the right to birth control.”
Hobby Lobby pays for about 8 different types of birth control – you know that, right? You can debate whether it was right for them to not want to pay for IUDs and the morning-after pill, but you can’t say they deny the right to birth control when they pay for eight types of it. Also, not paying for something does not = denying the right to it, especially when it is available cheaply and readily. Again, you can debate whether legally it was right for a company to get a pass on paying for it, but that does not in any way mean people don’t have access to it or that we live in some prudish culture.
@Faye @Msw Except the court came out the next day and clarified that they meant all types of birth control-not just the 2 that hobby lobby original sued about. So all 8 versions at HL are gone. The ruling applies to every kind of birth control. Never mind the fact that if I pay a premium out of my paycheck a month I should be able to have my health care cover all of my needs. My company doesn’t pay for it-I do.
And I want to know where this myth that birth control is cheap came from. When I didn’t have insurance I paid for BC out of pocket (because it was cheaper than potentially having a kid) I had a generic for a well known brand, and it was still $80 a month for that. If you’re someone that’s working a wage payroll job and barely making rent, that’s alot of money.
@msw
Let’s be clear on something: Plan B is not an “abortion pill”. There is no form of birth control that causes abortion. Only an abortion causes an abortion. There is an abortion pill, Mifeprex, but it is only available by prescription and is not included as a birth control option.
@Faye, I’m happy to stick to facts too. And as a lawyer, I can promise you that the decision to deny rights to the four types of birth control in that case is an open door to ban them all. Some religions believe all birth control is abortion and if the court decides one religion can deny one type, what is stopping them deciding another religion can ban other types or all types? You should probably read Ginsburg’s dissent to understand it better. I don’t need to name *one white guy. Have yourself a gander at the list of GOP congressmen if you want to see who is hacking up women’s right. Look at the states that slowly and surely have chipped away at abortion rights and even chipped away planned parenthood, where many women obtain their birth control (and now no longer have access to it or gynecological services). If you’re going to stick to facts, learn them all, not only the ones that fit the narrative you want to be true.
It is incredibly frightening to me that people actually think that morning-after pills “may” be abortifacients.
They ARE NOT. The ‘morning after’ pills prevent the egg from being released–they inhibit ovulation.
NO EGG IS RELEASED thus NO EGG IS FERTILIZED thus NO ZYGOTE IS CREATED thus NO FETUS IS CREATED.
I cannot believe that the public is not more informed about how these pills work.
And no, BC is not available “cheaply” and “readily”. That is simply FALSE.
yes @algernon, that’s great, but what are you correcting me on? I know the morning after pill is not an abortifacient. You can’t abort something that isn’t actually a pregnancy. I’m talking about RU 486, also known as Mifepristone/Mifiprex, which is an actual abortion pill, as you mentioned. Obamacare doesn’t require any health provider to cover it, so there is no need for an exception for it. Besides that, I stated I am not on board with the ruling, especially because it allows the business to make up it’s own mind about what causes abortions, such as IUD’s, even though it is not true. You don’t just get to make up your own facts under the guise of religion, especially for people who are paying for their own health care, and use it as an excuse to deny health care coverage. I’m so freaking sick of religion getting a protected status. Religious beliefs are not special simply because they are religious in nature. I have beliefs that I hold just as strongly as any religious person, but I can’t claim to get a pass on certain things because of them.
@L, thanks for the clarification, I actually didn’t know about that. i’m looking into it for more information. Not sure how this conversation about birth control being cheap got started here, though. The only people who think it is cheap either don’t know much about the average person’s idea of expensive, or have never had to buy it out of pocket, as I have.
Thank you Algernon and TOK.
Preventing ovulation is not the same thing as preventing implantation. Many people confuse Ella or Plan B with RU486, and RU486 is not covered by ACA.
Also, lets not pretend that affordability doesn’t impact availability. Contraceptive rings, for example, are VERY expensive up front because they provide pregnancy prevention for years. It is entirely possible and plausible that a woman will be denied this type of medical care because it is no longer covered by her insurance.
Faye wrote, “*Name ONE “white, male politician” who has actually denied or even tried to deny access to birth control, or who tried to stop women from having sex.”
Kansas Governor Sam Brownback (GOP) in 2012 signed into law a bill that allows pharmacists the right to deny filling contraceptive prescriptions. That is just one legislative action out of many.
More
I can’t take the Pill. I’m not eligible for it because of my genetic stroke risk – a specific IUD is my best,
What completely freaks me out about the Hobby Lobby decision, as a woman, an attorney, and as a person who suffered multiple ovarian cysts is that the Court refused to consider that those items might serve another purpose, other than birth control, and even shot shade in the decision’s footnotes at the Justice who discussed endometiriosis and ovarian cysts in her decision for doing just that, and ruled that, despite the fact that women were paying the premiums for this insurance, the employer could deny coverage for the medication to treat their ailments. While I never wish harm on anyone, I will alter my behavior to wish rupturing ovarian cysts on the five male jerks who passed the Hobby Lobby decision. I have also written to my congressional representatives that, as the employer of the Supreme Court, I have a closely held religious belief that my tax dollars should not be used to pay for pumps, implants, or medications to help Supreme Court justices have sex. If God wanted Antonin Scalia to have sex, she would give him an erection without viagra. And he can spare me any “sanctity of the marriage” whining; there are other body parts he can learn to use to satisfy his long-suffering wife.
I agree with you Faye…it seems like ALL we hear these days in movies and tv is sex, sex, sex…teens get drunk and have sex…oops, no consequences, except they usually fall madly in love, happily ever after….happy Hollywood endings! Teens need to know the REAL stories…I used to work at Walmart and believe me, there were sooooo many young girls, with 2,3, 4 kids…no child support, no support of any kind. Young guys who will be stocking shelves with cereal until they retire, because they do pay child support…I’m not saying we should “shame” anyone for having sex, but teens need to know, REALLY UNDERSTAND, there are CONSQUENCES and sometimes those consequences turn out to be a poor baby that neither parent is ready for…maybe we need more movies about that…
Thanks for this. If you dare speak out about the over-sexualization of our culture, which has a LOT of influence on people no matter what you say, you get called a reactionary and a prude and a religious nut. Which, no. I’ve never hidden the fact that I am religious, but I don’t want to live in Iran. My personal choices are mine, personal, and people should be free to have sex when they want.
But, as you said, there are consequences to it and I think some of the younger generation is just ill-prepared for them. I wish that was addressed more in popular culture. I don’t think that’s shaming, that’s educating. I don’t young women called bad names; I just want them better informed and to take sex a little more seriously.
The problem is that the kids aren’t being educated, either. There are many places throughout the country where sex ed amounts to “don’t do it”, and they leave it at that. I’ve got young cousins who are completely clueless as they enter high school because they’ve never received proper sex education. But for a lot of young girls, all they get is stuff like Teen Mom glorifying teen pregnancy on one hand, a media culture that tells them all their worth is tied up in their desirability, but where there should be responsible sex education, there is nothing. Their parents don’t talk to them, their parents won’t let the schools talk to them; is it any wonder they have weird attitudes about sex?
Exactly, Algernon!
Nature makes teens SURGE with hormones that cause sexual feelings. We can tell them to ignore these feelings, or we can address them. I think comprehensive sex education is its own morality tale, because you realize the serious risks of pregnancy and disease. Shankers are very powerful images, lol! Abstinence only sex ed only produces young adults who don’t know the risks and preventative measures that can be taken to protect themselves. Kids need to be informed scientifically about sex BEFORE they start having it. Even if a teen stays abstinent during school, they will most likely have sex eventually and should be fully educated about the science surrounding it.
Tiffany
The rise of anal sex among high school-aged teens is half terrifying, half funny. Half terrifying because *how do they even know about that?!*, and half funny because they act like they’ve found “the solution”. Can’t get pregnant through the back door! But it’s like, kids, you can still get STIs.
No joke, my school showed us a video of a natural childbirth and then a video documenting what your junk looks like with various STIs, and I was like, “No one touch me,” for years. That sh-t worked.
“I was like, “No one touch me,” for years. That sh-t worked. ”
Lol, so very true! 😀 I was sooooo scared of getting a disease!
I was beginning to think I was the only one concerned about the “over-sexualization” of our culture. We live in a free country where we are free to have sex with whomever, whenever we want, so I’m not sure what some people are yelling about. There ARE consequences and unwanted pregnancies isn’t the only one. I’m not going to list them here, but I suggest to anyone to read up on STD statistics. Condoms aren’t 100% effective. Education is NOT shaming.
Thank you! Sex is everywhere and unless you live with the Duggars I don’t see it being shamed in pop culture and if you don’t think pop culture has a huge influence on young people and society then you are just fooling yourself. Over the weekend I was at a hotel watching tv, I actually only have Netflix and amazon at home, and it seemed like every other commercial was about ED or the affects of menopause on sex and so on. I was like seriously?? Do we have to hear about sex during the commercials between the shows about sex?! I do not miss cable that’s for sure.
I’ve said it on here before but many young people definitely do not think sex should or does have consequences. They think it’s all for pleasure and fun. Some girl on Instagram that was debating about the HL ruling actually said that she is not going to stop having sex because pregnancy should not be considered a consequence of sex. What?! People actually believe this!!!! When pop culture only shows sex as fun with no negative consequences such as unwanted pregnancy or STI’s and there is more and more distance put between the act and the potential results of said act you will get people that think like that.
At msw: did u just call Plan B the abortion pill? because its not. Scientifically speaking.
I don’t think pregnancy should be a consequence of sex. No birth control is 100% effective, so you’re going to have that little niggle of anxiety, but generally, pregnancy is preventable and women should be free to prevent it if they so choose, without limiting their sex life. Take me, for instance. I have no interest in having children, ever. I’m engaged to a man who also has no interest in having children, ever. We’ve talked about, we agree about it, and as a result I have an IUD and he’s getting snipped before the wedding. Are these not our choices to make? This is our family planning-we don’t want a family, so we’re planning not to have one.
Young people need to realize that no matter how diligent they are with birth control, it *can* still happen, but pregnancy shouldn’t be treated as “something you have to live with”. It’s a life event that can be planned, and one that should be prevented until the prospective parent(s) are emotionally and financially prepared to deal with it.
Well said, Algernon. Excellent post.
@Kitten
I wish someone would do a study and find out who’s actually using BC. I have a sneaking suspicion, based on my encounters in doctor’s offices and at the pharmacy, that it’s at least 40% women in committed, monogamous relationships who view it as an essential part of their family planning.
I’m starting to think we need to Rosa Parks this situation. The NAACP chose Parks as (one of) the face of civil rights because she was a married woman, involved in her church and community. She was unobjectionable to white people who tried to demonize every black person who demanded equality. It was like, “Look at this nice little lady. Why are you being mean to her?” And people went, “Why *are* we being mean to her?” It made it a lot harder to justify Jim Crow when its public victim was a nice lady who wanted to go home to her family after a long day at work.
Right now, the BC/reproductive rights debate is all about horny sluts who want to slut it up, consequence-free. I really think we need to start finding older women to stand up and talk about it in terms of family planning. Get a mom of three who is employed at HL and doesn’t want more kids to talk about how this decision impacts her family. Find me a woman who’s lost a baby and had to carry it anyway because her state enacted a “fetal pain” law. We have to change the face of this discussion, and we have to do it like the NAACP did it–find the most unexceptional, unobjectionable women to present their stories. Change the conversation from “horny sluts” to “grown women trying to do the best for their families and finding their rights impeded”. Most people just don’t think about it in those terms. I have a very religious, conservative family, but it’s well known in my family that I started on BC as a teen because of debilitating cramps, which could get so bad I couldn’t go to school. Despite their reservations about why *some* people *may* use it, they knew, personally, that for a lot of women/girls, it’s not even about sexual activity, it’s about managing uterine health. Show the country a young girl suffering endometriosis, and it gets a lot harder to deny her her medicine.
Algernon, great posts!
I fully agree with what you wrote, the need for a spokeswoman so that people see this as being about health care for reproductive organs, not just “horny sluts”.
The choice of type of birth control has so many effects on a woman’s body, and I think a lot of men miss this. Some formulas give you terrible cramps, some lessen the cramps, some wreck havoc on your emotions, some are better for preventing ovarian cysts, some work better for long term contraception, some are better for short term family planning. The idea that the $5 generic from Wal-Mart will work for all women and all of their needs is a horrifyingly common perception.
I remember that, too. And now she’s “genetically blessed.” I don’t see her as so fantastic-looking that her looks should come up in every interview, but to each his own. Come to think of it, she reminds me of the vile Laura Kathleen on Season 9 or 10 of Project Runway, who blamed all of her failures on her (nonexistent to my eyes) beauty.
lol, she seems very ordinary look-wise… The only thing not ordinary is the amount of make up on her face)
I disagree, i think she’s beautiful. But give me her acknowledging her looks any day over Jessica Biel whinging that she’s “too pretty for roles”.
Faye- agree! I’d say the total shamelessness is the norm nowadays. And the crude sexualization of everything – it’s just so tasteless.
Not to sound uncaring or ignorant of the political and\ “PC” ramifications of EB’s statements, but I just want to keep it really uncomplicated and simple and say….
Kaiser, I LOVE Elizabeth so much! For me, she is pretty much right up there with Tina and Amy as far as great, tight writing and satire goes. She is pro woman and anti girl-on-girl bashing. Others can dissect her comments for post modern feminist content or not…..whatever. I think she is funny, sharp and altogether lovely, and I think I may have a mad girl crush on her. That is all.
I love her, too! And her message is fine, also. It’s what I’d like for my girls – I’d like them to wait until they feel ready and really connected with someone (maybe madly in love is a reach, though). And then I’d like them to have a lot of sexual experience. Or, as much as they want. Or don’t want. I just have a huge fear of them marrying their high school boyfriend/girlfriend or something. That terrifies me! (*I do know many couples who married their high school – even jr. high – boyfriend/girlfriend and they all seem very happy. So don’t yell at me. I just have a hard time wrapping my brain around that.)
They are so lucky to have you for their mother!
Once I said to a couple, “hahaha can you imagine if you married the person you dated in high school?” And of course….foot in mouth.
Ha! Sounds like something I would totally do!
I love what she has to say about sex and waiting, my two are young but I’d like to get the idea across to them that while sex is fun and lovely, there is no harm in waiting for the person who loves you deeply and respects you (and vice versa) and that doesn’t necessarily mean that will the person you end up marrying. Basically, just try to be smart and safe about it.
It is kind of weird, GiGi. And I’m marrying mine in 3 weeks. It’s kind of absurd that I happened to find the person I want to spend my life with at 14 – and it’s probably a complete fluke. But we’ve been dating exclusively since the 9th grade. I went away to University, could have strayed if I wanted to, and I just didn’t. It wasn’t anything religious, or anything pressured by anyone… I just madly love this guy. And again – complete fluke, and more often than not this isn’t the case. Most of my friends would have been miserable had they married their high school counterpart. Hell – I even worry that my future kids might feel like marrying someone they date in high school and it not work out the way it did for us.
Congrats, Erinn!!!
3 weeks! Congratulations and very best wishes! Btw, the people I accidentally insulted are still happy in their 50s – they met when he was 16 and she was 14.
Congrats, Erinn! I put the disclaimer because I do know several people I grew up with who have now been married for 10+ years to people they started dating in 8th or 9th grade! And I believe they’re happily married, too. I know it happens, and if it works I think it’s a good testament to having found a partner who will obviously grow with you throughout life.
Congratulations Erinn!!
Goodnames, I have my foot in my mouth ALL TIME. Having said that, the only happy couple I ever met in my life.. Well they actually met in high school lol
Thanks guys – and Gigi and GNAT – I know I’m mostly an anomaly in that manner – so it’s not insulting at all! It rarely works out, and it still strikes me as weird sometimes that it worked out so nicely.
my aunt and uncle, who have been married for almost 40 years met in grade 7, married at the end of his B.Ed., had 4 children together and still really, really enjoy each other’s company. My parents, as well. And my mom is 2.5 years older than my dad (but only 1 grade higher). They married in June after he finished high school. My best friends met in grade 3. He always says he knew he wanted to marry her right then. They have been married 15 years. There are a lot of success stories : ) Have fun and congratulations!!
I love what she said about sex and shame. And her advice is probably good for teenage girls, but I would add to wait until you’re with someone you know and most importantly, trust. Madly in love happens instantly and often when you’re that young, or it did for me. I didn’t have sex with everyone I “loved” thank goodness. And I had a problem in my late teens and early twenties distinguishing love and sexual attraction, so if I was attracted enough to sleep with a boy, I thought I loved him, so I stayed in a couple of relationships long past the point where I should have.
Here’s some unsolicited advice for more mature, single women – give yourself permission to have sex with someone you just like. Lol. I was not promiscuous by any means after my divorce, but for the first time in my life, I just discarded the shameful part of sex and made choices based on what I wanted to do. I think it was very healthy and good for me. Maybe women these days don’t need to be told that, but my feelings about sex were so tied up with shoulds and shouldn’ts when I was young, I completely forgot about my own needs and feelings and just tried to bend them to fit the rules. I’m glad I had a time period when I was free of that.
@GoodNames
I had that time too after my longest relationship and it did a whole world of good to me. Good advice!
“How GNAT Got Her Groove Back”
I’m all about sexual liberation myself. I never got the “it has to be meaningful every time” thing. That being said, sex is always a million times better when there are feelings involved.
I love Elizabeth Banks. She’s a cool chick.
You’re so filled with wisdom, GNAT!
Love your wisdom and self-acceptance. Go, GNAT!
I will tell my girls to only have sex with people they are willing to be connected to for the rest of their lives in the event of a pregnancy. But otherwise, I hope they can feel the joy of great sex. I grew up in sexually repressed home, and I wish I had had more positive experience before I got married so that my marital sex was more enjoyable and crazy. Its getting there, but hangups suck.
I loved Pitch Perfect! Can’t wait for the sequel!
Just love her. Smart, funny – what’s not to love? If you haven’t seen her video highlighting women and heart-attacks, it’s great. She directed it: http://youtu.be/t7wmPWTnDbE.
I really like her.
Me too! And she is refreshing too 🙂
The truth has been spoken!
“I promote safe sex, always, and abstinence until you are madly in love.”
I dunno, this doesn’t sound very sex-positive to me; it’s only ok to have sex when you’re in love? Still too judgy and shame-y for my taste. There is NOTHING wrong with a safe, consensual, enthusiastic one-night stand or “friends with bens” situ, if that’s what young women want.
+1!
I think that’s her own personal mantra/what she might like for her own children, all the while recognizing that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Hence, her saying she will always promote safe sex and won’t judge or shame people who choose to live differently.
I agree with you – but I took her “madly in love” comment to be for the first-timers… And while I think “like & trust” would be a more important factor, I also know that most of the girls I knew growing up were having sex because they felt they had to. So their boyfriends would still like them, or keep dating them or whatever. I didn’t know anyone having sex in HS because they were so in love.
But I think once you’re consenting age… who cares? Of all the people I was active with I was maybe really in love with 3 or 4 of them. The rest were just for fun. Nothing wrong with that!
I also took this for “first time”- not for once you’re past that point.
Godwina – That was my exact reaction, as well. I get what she’s saying, and there’s nothing wrong with promoting that message as a healthy option (i.e. just putting out the counter message that you’re not a prude for delaying sex until the right moment), but it comes tainted with generations of voices also saying “good girls wait.” IMHO – I think the balance should be “good girls wait until it’s their own decision to have sex,” which could be right this moment or in six weeks (to loosely paraphrase Emma Stone in Easy A).
That’s not “shame-y.” People want to call EVERYTHING some form of shaming these days.
I agree, Godwina. Teenage sex is very seldom damaging to a child: if parents are going to worry about something that has lasting ramifications, it should be looking out for the pedophiliac monsters, lurking in the most unbelievable places.
I love seeing her in reruns of 30rock , playing Alec Baldwin’s reporter girlfriend,wife. She’s hilarious and gorgeous. Love her.
People should just shut up about others sex-life. What’s wrong with sex without being “madly in love”? As long as everyone is sane and consenting, it’s nobody’s business. Do what you want and mind your own panties.
She is very talented and smart, I’m a fan for sure.
I remember thinking she and Liam Neeson would make a great couple until I found out she was married. Oh, well.
*evil eye*
Don’t make me shank you.
Hahaha…Virgilia Neeson has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?
😉
Oh, gawd, seriously the Hobby Lobby decision was modified within *one day* to allow employers to deny all forms of birth control, which was the point to begin with
Moreover it establishes legal precedent for much more widespread decisions. Tyranny is always established in baby steps rather than one sweeping act. I know I’m not posting this in the right place, but there’s no wrong place to challenge ignorance.
I can’t wait until some jackhole uses that ruling to justify why he (or she) doesn’t have to serve people of color in a restaurant, or sell them items in a store. You know some idiot will try it.
It is a very troubling ruling, bettyrose.
I have loved her since The Baxter- her comedic timing is flawless.
Re her comments re sex- I concur with the sentiments expressed upthread that 13/14/15 yr olds typically enter into their first sexual relationships to please/fear of losing the BF- of course not all, but it’s a pretty common set of circumstances. And don’t get me started on the enormous numbers of girls of this age cohort who are impregnated by men in their mid to late 20s. Regardless of the legal age of consent, someone in their 20s typically is more in control of their decision-making processes than a teenager. Yet such men are rarely if ever prosecuted. OK rant over- can’t wait for PP2!
Perhaps what Kaiser was alluding to, is the historical suppression of women’s right to control her own body. Truth is, the woman ends up with the kid – and that’s because men (largely), want to impose blame onto her (slut-shaming etc.), and not to themselves, for disallowing the provisions that provide women’s healthcare. In days of yore (and still among other cultures) is the idea that the only way for a man to be able to determine whether a child was his or not, was to impose marriage, and virginity before marriage. This is the root of suppressing birth control for religious bodies, who use the tactic of shame and blame, to continue their control of women’s bodies. Young women are still shamed by most religious institutions for premarital sex (remember it’s her body and right to chose). It is control that is the issue. This latest decision shames women, who want to control their own bodies, without the judgments and proscriptions of old men and religious fanatics. They are so controlling of others!
It is true that our culture has become sexualized. It’s very strange to see the devolvement of women, beginning by characterizing us and the way we dress, as being the reason for men’s insatiability; into pretty much the free for all media orgy, that is going on around us, and about us, now. (I can’t believe that we get to see what Kim K. is wearing (or not) with her exaggerated sexual markers, EVERYday). There might have had a Marilyn Monroe, but women did not need to take their clothes off, in order to be seductive. (You keep them guessing, and then they can feel very, very lucky). It was possible to be the “it” girl without disrobing repeatedly. There was greater emphasis on a women’s character, and who they were inside, and who we wanted to be; it is not about bodyparts. Men were acceptable and thought handsome, without all the body building. Eternal youth was the pipe dream of the few.
That times and attitudes change, sometimes within in a mere decade , is a certainty. The media glare seems like such a simplification, of what a man and woman are, and what they can mean to each other, has degenerated into mere body worship. I also worry about our young women, and the narrative that tells them that to be sexy is the highest good, for all women. It can’t be that our naked bodies are our highest expression of what it means to be a woman.
Wolfpup: slow clap. Amazing post. And thank you for using the phrase “impose marriage” I’m so tired of the fallacy that women are marriage obsessed, looking to tie down men. It’s been barely half a century that women have had the luxury to marry for love. Prior to that it was forced on women as their only economic option. You think my grandmother wanted to spend her life as a shop girl? Each date she went on was basically a job interview to be a wife/mother within the financial bond of matrimony. Any man who feels “trapped” by marriage oriented women needs to get out there and fight for economic equality and reproductive rights. /rant
Wolfpup!! Thank you for perfectly expressing what’s really going on. You have my vote. 🙂
I agree with her. Safe sex is important and waiting until you’re in love is ideal. I’m not saying everyone should wait until they are in love BUT, surely that is a great idea. I personally married my college sweetheart, and we did have a small amount of experience before starting to date. I sometimes wish I had more experience before him but we are happy and things are good.
When I was 20, we had 1(!!!)girl in our group who was a virgin. She was so scared to admit it to the guy she liked, so when she finally came to it, she beat around the bush for like half an hour. At the end poor fella was totally relieved it was the virginity she meant. He thought with all the “important secret”, “very personal”, “something about my sexuality you don’t know” and such, that she was a transsexual or mutant.
I don’t see the experience in sex a an improvement on something. It doesn’t bring anything really. Sometimes less is even more, but quality, not quantity is what matters. And here love is what makes the diffence. How much in love you are.
Sex is being totally abused, just like Chris Pratt said about food: it relaces the emotional void, people have sex for giggles, to prove that they’re worthy and attractive. And being sexually attractive to as many people as possible is like joining the ranks of the elite.
She can shut her genetically-blessed pie hole too. She’s still promoting abstinence (puritanism), just couching it as more PC.
I know & I agree. I feel she’s saying “I’m not shaming…yak yak…but I think it is SO much more sacred to wait.” Whatever.
Also: “Yes, I have nice cheekbones and skinny legs but I can’t take any credit for it”. I don’t know what to say… Eh?
These comments resonate with me as the mother of 2 girls (19 and 12). I started The Talk (which is really more of a series LOL) when the girls were young and gradually moved into more mature areas of discussion as they got older. (And I will never forget my then-11th grade daughter having a closed-door discussion with me about various phrases she heard at school but didn’t know what they meant. She didn’t want to seem stupid or out of it but she didn’t want to look them up online and have God knows what pop up. So, Mom, it was. By the end of that discussion (and I knew pretty much every reference she made) I needed a drink!)
The key thing I wanted them to take is that THEY and no one else are in charge of their bodies and their choices. They shouldn’t feel forced into having sex by society or a boyfriend or anyone else and they shouldn’t feel shamed if that had sex before being married. My only proviso is that I made it clear I think teenage sex IS too young almost all of the time for a variety of reasons. But they shouldn’t be made to feel ashamed if they are OR aren’t a virgin when they are 18 and a legal adult.
Now my eldest pegs herself as a bit asexual which took me awhile to wrap my head around. It’s strange–usually you worry about your kids having too much sex, I worried that she wasn’t interested at all! But as long as she’s happy and fine with the issue–and open to a loving, committed relationship–then that’s her choice.
I used to tell them that basically, sex is fun. It’s not shameful. I happened to marry my first boyfriend (and I was his first girlfriend) and have enjoyed every single bit of our intimate time together. It can be a wonderful thing and it feels good. But you need to be ready for it, physically and emotionally. And they also know that 100%, no discussion, that safe sex is a MUST. If and when my eldest wants me to, I will have her put on the Pill for protection sake but she’s also adamant on guys ‘wrapping it up’ because the Pill won’t protect you from STDs.
As for the over-sexualization of culture, yes, it’s pervasive and a constant battle. I’m appalled at what passes for fashion, for instance, for girls. And it’s not new–I saw it when my eldest was a toddler even. My husband is pretty chill on things but he was like ‘no writing on the butt’ and no obnoxious T-shirts (ie Sexy Girl). (I don’t like ‘precocious’ T-shirts either–like Brat or Spoiled because, really, you want to brag about that?) And TV, music, etc…I had pretty strict guidelines for movies/TV regarding sex, violence and language and my kids respected it, understood it and (mostly) obeyed it. When they saw something elsewhere that I wouldn’t have approved, we talked about it.
Thanks for writing this. That’s a huge topic for me, and I always think, how to protect the kids from the society, but not to make them feel alone among their peers. You give me hope. I just really really hope to find the right words at the right time.
That reminds me of when my mom decided (I was 14) to have a major talk… I remember she told me “I don’t expect you to be virgin when you get married, I know how society works, I just want you to always be careful because there are lots of STDs and unwanted pregnancies. Do it when you feel ready for it, never before.”
I was a virgin until I was 20… 🙂 Never regretted it, My bf at the time said: “I’ll wait, it’s a moment too important and you should only do it when you feel ready.” If I could change my whole life, that’s one moment and one person that I wouldn’t change… We’re still good friends and I even have pics of his 2 lovely boys..
Guess her talk actually worked out pretty well.. And I have to thank her for that. But of course, times and society were a bit different 20 years ago, even at university, most of my collegues were still virgins, and we talked to eachother about it and when the moment took place, my friends (and I for them) were there to listen…
I was lucky to wait for such a gentleman and for having such amazing friends..
Yes, I’ve tried to communicate to them that being in love is best though it doesn’t always work out that way. Maybe especially as you age–that first time may become a ‘just get it over with already moment’. That happened with my best friend in college. She was determined not to be a virgin when she graduated college and lost her virginity the day before. She didn’t regret it per se but it wasn’t particularly happy or memorable either.
But a number of my now-college age daughter’s friends are actually virgins or fairly inexperienced as well. So she at least doesn’t feel awkward or pressured by her peers. And prior boyfriends have been firmly told what the deal is–when they are both ready and not a moment sooner. That moment just didn’t come for them.
I’m just glad that they’re secure in themselves and that they feel open to talking to me about it. I have a 16 yr old son but I try to make him my husband’s job. 🙂 (But he’s been deployed a lot over the last 6 years as well so I’ve still ended up with a good deal of The Talk with him anyway.) And I think he’s actually the most ‘prudish’ of the 3! I just hope (and I believe he will) he turns out as gentlemanly and considerate as his father was and is. Considering we were each others first kiss even (and we were way behind the curve–I was 19 and he was 21 but he was on the shy side much to my benefit because he’s a very fine looking fellow LOL) we were able to blunder along and learn things together.
No desire to shame anyone about sex- and safe sex is a given- but I agree with her about abstinence unless you’re in love. Sex is so beautiful and personal that I can’t see sharing it with someone you’re not deeply into. But not everyone feels that way, and I like that she doesn’t throw shade over it.
Avery Jessup 4 Life! I love her.
I’m mother to a 12 year old son. His father (my ex) will teach him about becoming a man. I’ve taken it upon myself to discuss everything from drinking/drugs to strip clubs to pr0n to dating and romance. Recently we have been discussing sex and pregnancy as well. Like Elizabeth I’m firmly in the camp of abstinence until you are in love. We have also discussed dating and having fun until you are ready for marriage and that I hope he waits a while…at least until he completes his education. I’m blessed that he is smart and mature and listens to me. I just pray and hope that somehow it really sinks in. It’s not easy having these sorts of grown up conversations but it’s SO important! I’ve really stressed the no shame aspect of your own body and sex. I just want him and whoever he chooses as a partner to be healthy and happy when he’s ready. It’s vital to establish open communication before they start dating.
In my experience, boys learn how to think about their sexuality from their fathers, so it is really important to choose well, the kind of man one has children with. I’m not saying that my sons did not learn from me, but I was only capable of giving them, a woman’s point of view. Boys want to know how to be men, and no matter how well I could describe “a real man” to them, their father was the one to pass out the “who is a man-card”, not mummy (I know, the indignity of that!). Even though I divorced my ex, maintaining a good relationship with him, was the only way I could help my children feel safe. They loved their father, and even if I really didn’t like sharing power(?) with him, that fact was that I had to, not only to be more effective in my influence, but also to engender their wholeness as human beings. Geez – you have to become so mature to raise your babies! Lots of things don’t matter, but loving and supporting them no matter what, is how mothering never ends, and that is a very good thing.
I definitely thing our culture is oversexualized…from sitcoms of people having sex on the first date to kim kartrashians boobs all over instagram, its everywhere. I don’t think its a good thing either…when something is overexposed, people get immune to it, and it isn’t as sacred anymore. Other cultures are way more constrained in that way than America. I am not married and have only had sex one time with a college boyfriend, I have been single for about 5 years. Im a very good looking and nice girl with a great job and apartment, sometimes I cant help but wonder if I had sex with these guys, would one stay around? Is that what we have to do now? lol!