Tim Burton is one of those artists who make me proud to be an American. Burton is just so delightfully weird and eccentric, and I’m always so happy that Burton has been able to thrive and develop his bizarre, enjoyable films. Burton’s current offering is seemingly more of a grown-up film: a tried-and-true bio-pic of artist Margaret Keane, Big Eyes, starring Amy Adams (and no Johnny Depp in sight). The reviews have been mixed, but I like the fact that Burton wanted to make a Keane bio-pic for so many years and he finally got the chance.
Anyway, Burton is giving interviews to support the film, and when he spoke to Yahoo UK, he was asked about his turn directing superhero films (1989’s Batman and 1992’s Batman Returns) and what he thinks of the current Marvel-dominated superhero landscape. His answers were… very interesting.
Tim Burton, the godfather of the modern superhero genre, admits he’s tired of Marvel’s tried and tested storytelling style.
“Marvel, they have their thing and there’s a certain formula to it all which seems to still be working,” Burton told Yahoo Movies while promoting his new film ‘Big Eyes’. “But how many times can you say ‘you’re wearing a funny costume’ with the tights and stuff? That’s been going on for 20 years now. Yes, we all know that superheroes are damaged individuals. Maybe we need to see a happy superhero?”
Marvel Studios released 10 superhero films over the last 6 years and recently announced it has 11 more on the way between now and 2019. Burton’s 1989 ‘Batman’ was the first superhero film to enjoy any substantial success at the box office after ‘Superman III & IV’ spectacularly tanked. His dark and adult approach to the Dark Knight changed the public’s perception of the genre opening it up to a much wider audience, paving the way for the glut of superhero films we have today.
Burton and Michael Keaton were originally set to make a third ‘Batman’ film together after ‘Batman Returns’ but both pulled out after the studio insisted on a more mainstream direction. He says that the modern superhero films are so dark now, his look gaudy in comparison.
“I remember ‘Batman’ getting so much flak and criticism at the time for being too dark and now 20-30 years later, it now looks like a light-hearted romp, it’s such a strange thing to go through.”
He hasn’t ruled out a return to the genre in the future, but he thinks the public appetite could run out before he got the chance.
“I think there is [another superhero film in me], but I don’t know. You think we need more superhero movies? It keeps on going. It’s amazing how long it’s been going for and it just keeps getting stronger and stronger. Some day people will get sick of it.”
When Tim Burton is telling you to lighten up and stop making all superheroes these brooding, dark, depressives, maybe you should listen to him? And he’s sort of right about the 1989 Batman, which I totally still enjoy. But it IS gaudy. And weird and fun. I remember this too – Tim Burton’s Batman movies were cross-promotional God-sends. Because they were so gaudy and fun, every company wanted to come on board. They sold millions of Batman t-shirts and Batman key chains and pens and so much more. These days, DC and Marvel are a bit more careful about how they brand and market their superheroes.
And I also wonder if Burton is right about there being some kind of end-date on interest for superhero movies. I mean, eventually people are going to get bored with the formula, right? That reminds me of when I watched Man of Steel in the theater – during the final confrontation between Superman and General Zod, all I could think was “Damn, I’m so tired of seeing American cities destroyed by superhero BS.” All of that violence and destruction does get tedious after a while, right? RIGHT?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Mr Burton, that ‘some day’ has come.
YES. I love Batman (Like madly in love since I was young) but I’m not even looking forward to Batfleck. I’m just bored with all superheroes now.
They could make a superhero/slash stripper movie with my Tater and I’d still say nope…pass.
That last sentence was a total lie.
I’m just ‘bored and sloppy’.
What are the special powers of a superhero stripper?
Does he use a thong like a slingshot, firing uncooked potatoes? Or is the weapon in the thong?
I did think that you were Judi-Denching on that stripper film. Obvious LIES are obvious.
@Kiddo – I got as far as “thong like a slingshot” and had to go…uhm…meditate.
a;gahjgidhga aha;f dgbaujngfa;ja
@mimif – I think I’ll use the name Tuberu tomorrow. *snot bubble giggling*
@KidoO, This. Like yesterday a few years okay a decade (maybe more) ago.
@Taterho, I couldn’t even read your post because I was laughing too hard at your name. Silly tuber. 😀
I was over it all after 2007’s sucky Spiderman 3. Haven’t watched another super hero movie until recently. Guardians of the Galaxy reminded me to stay away from the genre.
I think it’s on its way if it’s not come already. But, to be serious, what comes next will be interesting. Because with the advent of sexy TVs, streaming services and hard drives, the movies are going to have to continue to deliver BANG (pun intended) for buck to cinema-goers, aren’t they? People who like storytelling (eg, moi) will just watch at home. And avoid £5 for a soft drink and another £5 for alien food that purports to be nachos and cheese but really, really, isn’t.
I don’t know WTF they’re selling people but that is most definitely not nachos.
If I shake the Magic 8 Ball, I would say that what comes after superhero movies will be a resurgence of action movies starring everyman (and hopefully everywoman) types who just happen to be able to do intricate stuntwork – Die Hard and other things of that ilk. I think you’re right that character-focused pieces can be easily watched at home, and I think a lot of them are migrating to television, so whatever replaces superhero movies will need to be effects or action oriented.
Yes. Or perhaps space operas. Anything that can create an experience you can’t get at home. I completely agree about TV.
Yep. I am so already there…
I am with him there – no more super hero movies for me. Donezo.
I am already sick of superheroes. VERY SICK OF THEM.
Me too!!
Agreed, although I do enjoy movies about mutants and the secret organisations that deal with them: think Agents of Shield and X-men. I LOVE those. More Magneto and Prof.X and Ward and Fitz and less Spiderman/Superman/Batman.
I know I’m in the minority but I grew up with comic books (still read and collect them) and it absolutely is great to see them on screen. I still mark out and I’m 30 so I’m one of those lame people. But everything is cyclical; they’ll stop eventually.
If only I could make Rom-Coms go away and my husband stop watching things with Vince Vaughn in them, I’d be golden.
You’re not in the minority. The industry estimate is that about 100 million people worldwide go see superhero movies. There’s a reason they’re making so many: people like them and keep going to see them. As a fellow comic book reader, I too am glad to see my childhood heroes on the big screen.
It definitely feels like the minority on this site at least lol.
Me too! I’d take a GOOD superhero movie over a romcom or a drama anyday. When I go out to the theatre and spend all that money, I want to have a good time/laugh. I save the serious stuff for at home sitting on the couch.
I love comic books and batman remains one of my favorite superheros, but I personally never understand why fans will flock to these things. They become so formalic, cold, boring, and lifeless. There’s no point. You can’t really explore a whole treasure trove of complex characters in that two hours effectively. You just can’t. A tv series, cartoon, and a comic are much better ways of going about exploring these story and character arcs. So I’m personally never excited for these movies. But Interstellar is a movie I’d be excited about since it’s a fresh story and it does depend on the theater medium to enhance your experience.
Of course superhero movies have an expiration date because goddess knows comic books have only been around for 70 years or so. Clearly there’s no audience for those stories.
I think it’ll be bad for the studios when they dump money into these secondary hero movies- like Ant and Aqua Man etc.- that do not have as much of a reach as your Iron, Bat and Super mans. Truly, who will go see Aqua Man?!?
Well the same was said for Guardians of the Galaxy and it performed super well.
I was just about to say the same thing. Everyone though GOTG wouldnt perform as well because nobody knew who they were and yet it was like the #1 movie of the summer. Im sure Ant-Man will do fine as well. Marvel has a pretty good track record now.
Can’t say for sure how well DC films will do since their track record isn’t as good, but Im sure they will make their money back.
Actually, the same was said for Iron Man too.
I will, but only for the sexiness that is Jason Momoa.
Iron Man was a B-lister at the beginning. In fact, Marvel’s house is built on B and C list characters. Except for Captain America, who’s been around forever and is highly recognizable, the Avengers have always been a B team.
I agree with him. No more superhero movies. How about Beetlejuice Two?
Don’t think so. There is a large portion of movie goers that only want to see action/adventure movie in theaters. There will always be potential for profit. Look how excited people get for just announcements of upcoming comic movies. And they are entertaining.
Exactly. Elementary school kids and even some high school ones absolutely love those films. I think it’s a normal phase for most: First Disney then Marvel.
I agree with him. I was reading recently about how studio execs have their franchises planned out for the next 10 years and I think it spells disaster for a movie industry that’s already in trouble. We are rapidly approaching saturation point with franchises in general and superhero franchises especially, and it’s going to be ugly when the public turns off the money spigot and billions are already sunk into the next dozen tights and capes movies.
I totally agree, when the public does decide they’ve had enough, the studios will be in huge trouble. They are already discussing a third reboot of Spiderman, for crying out loud. But, for right now, as long as Marvel movies keep making money hand over fist, studios are going to keep making them.
Tim Burton is 100% right. I still think his Batman movies were the best Batman movies. Largely because Michael Keaton was excellent in the role.
The reboot is so that they don’t loose their rights back to Marvel. If they sit on it, or any other Marvel Superhero franchise that they hold, the time frame of exercising film rights will run out and revert back to Marvel and why would they want to hand a hot property back to Marvel?
I enjoy superheroes movies. I like most of what Marvel puts out there, but I’m not so much of a fangirl that I go to every one. People can pick and choose what to see. I’ve not seen one frame of the latest Spiderman reboot. I have no plans to see Superman vs. Batfleck. I also avoid most Tim Burton movies with Johnny Depp.
I ALREADY AM.
Most people don’t get sick of seeing the same stuff over and over, though. Look at the James Bond franchise. Look at Doctor Who. Unless the Marvel movies start to dip in quality, I don’t see anyone getting sick of them for quite some time. As for Batman, I wish Burton would pretend that the Schumacher films don’t exist and film a third and final movie with Keaton. To hell with the Affleck films.
Every genre eventually out stays it’s welcome.
From musicals, noirs, westerns, rom coms etc you name it. All were in vogue at one time or another.
The problem is that Hollywood takes hold of one genre and runs with it into the ground.
And so too shall superhero films.
I agree to an extent, but I’m not sure if the reason that all these genres go out of style is purely because Hollywood runs them into the ground. I think there are also periods in history when certain genres speak more strongly to people or fill a social need. Piling too many mediocre films on top of each other does tire people out, but I think it generally also coincides with musicals slowly starting too seem artificial instead of like good escapist family entertainment or westerns starting to seem retrograde and overly conservative rather than like healthy male fantasies. Superhero films will pass as well, but I think that’s more likely to happen when people are feeling physically and economically secure enough for the idea of a handful of powerful people protecting the world to be less seductive.
The only ones who won’t get tired of it are the comic book geeks. They won’t be satisfied until even the 3rd and 4th tier heroes get movies.
Frankly, I’m getting tired of it. I didn’t bother with the Spiderman reboot. I was done after the Tobey McGuire trilogy. I skipped Man of Steel and didn’t much care for Captain America 2. I was underwhelmed by the Winter Soldier as the villain and the movie draaaaaaaagged.
I think Avengers age of Ultron will be a clusterphuck.
I totally sympathize with Chris Evans whenever he complains about giving up 7 years of your life to do 3-5 movies
I agree, the neckbeards the geeks and the kids and people with bad taste and sorta simple taste are gonna go, I know my Bf and his Brother won’t let up!!!
But I’m absolutely exhausted, over the Casting rumors and all the other mess TIRED
“I agree, the neckbeards the geeks and the kids and people with bad taste and sorta simple taste are gonna go”
Wow, those are the ONLY people that will go? Listen, I love the Marvel flicks but I also enjoy watching little indie flicks, comedies, thrillers, musicals, fantasy etc. I love films. Maybe you don’t like superhero flicks, thats fine. But they don’t automatically = crap. And they dont mean that people with no taste will watch them. Captain America 2 was actually well reviewed this year.
Anyway, my point is that people are more than one dimensional and actually like the films without having to be a nerd, neckbeard or a person with zero taste.
Gotta disagree with you on Chris Evans – I can’t sympathise with a guy who’s got a reasonably solid source of income for 7 years. In this industry, he’s in the 1%. It may not be what he artistically wants – that’s fine, but damn… there’ll be no crack-hustling for him for a while.
But, as a cinema goer – yeah… 7 years?! 7 YEARS?? I’m already tired. I gave them a go – but they’re so BORING!! I was totally tricked by Joss Whedon. TRICKED!! I thought, oh, I’ve just seen Cabin in the Woods and enjoyed that – this Avengers bla bla might be OK. No, no it wasn’t. It was boring.
People keep trying to trick me with Guardians of the Galaxy. I’m going to fall for it eventually, and I hope I enjoy it.
You know what superhero movie I always liked – Masters of the Universe. Dolph Lundgren’s best film. It was crazy – something to do with synthesizers and a young Courteney Cox.
Masters of the Universe was epic. Camp and geeky beyond belief, I adore it.
And I agree, these superhero movies are boring boring boring… even the comics themselves are more experimental in terms of narrative and artwork. The movies are paint-by-numbers.
I have no problem with super hero/action movies (I can’t wait for Mad Max tbh), but he’s right about some of them being too dark. TDK and TDKR were good films, but they were so depressing.
…never fear, Batfleck and his director are on the job. The end of the superhero movie is nigh.
And I hope Burton gets his groove back, he made a number of well crafted and entertaining movies in the 90s.
He’s right. There’s a hard core of fans of the superhero films that it feels like the films are catering to now. But they keep getting bigger and more expensive and they get promoted so much because they must make the money back.
I think Burton, with Batman, taped into the real superhero ethos. Superheroes were created because people wanted a catharsis to see people do things that they themselves could not do. They wanted morality stories that showed good winning, evil losing and all that jazz. And Burton’s original Batman did that really well – Batman was the good guy, the Joker was the bad guy, and it all worked. Today, I sort of dislike the need for evil to always having a need to explain or rationalize itself (that’s part of why Heath Ledger’s Joker was such a shock – he was a return to the old “just evil for evil’s sake” villains of old).
Marvel has gotten just too big. It’s like a franchise. You need to go see every film that comes out now because they all are inter-linked and they all tie-in with the Avengers movies and you need to follow along – it’s exhausting. Frankly, I have neither the time nor the money.
And I just have incredible love for Tim Burton, so I can’t find wrong with any of this.
‘There’s a hard core of fans of the superhero films that it feels like the films are catering to now. ”
Totally the opposite. They’re actively throwing out stuff that comic book fans would die to see on screen in order to make movies with broader appeal. Comic book fans *hated* the Mandarin in Iron Man 3, but that was largely what made that movie work so well, having a complete left-field change break the expected formula delighted audiences. Likewise, there are significant changes to the Captain America movies that make the characters more widely appealing (taking out Bucky’s past as Natasha’s teacher/lover makes him much less creepy), and there’s a bunch of big changes coming to Marvel movies that nerds will hate because it’s not how the comics are, like Civil War without Spider-Man.
I think Burton has been a formula-addict himself, it’s just that he has a slightly different visual formula from the rest.
No forgiveness for he who cheats on Helena!
Yeah – whilst I love Burton up to a point… He’s become increasingly insistent upon himself. Charlie and the Chocolate factory, Alice in Wonderland. They have good points, but then they have a Wacky Johnny Depp (©Tim Burton 1990).
I thought that while he was caught kissing some woman, it was one kiss that was overhyped and nothing. I’m being naive, but I thought that’s as far as anything went.
I love the new Batman movies precisely because they’re not superhero films, but I think it’s creative laziness that all these themes are endlessly rebooted. Oherwise I’m inclined to agree with anything Tim Burton says. Thank you for Beetlejuice, just thank you. Signed My 12 year old self.
I really don’t understand how people are stupid enough to keep seeing the same movies over and over again. Why do they need to make another batman movie? I watched the ones with Christian bale and enjoyed them, same thing with the Toby macguire spidermans but I have no desire to see that story line again. Seriously who is paying for these? (I’m imagining whole fraternities lining up on opening day)
Tim Burton and Michael Keaton – still the best superhero combo. I loved their Batman so much! Plus, Prince did the music. You can’t get better than that!
I kinda agree with him. Too much of anything, even if they are fun to watch, becomes stale and boring.
I would like to watch a film of Burton and HBC discussing superhero films over a bottle of wine with their neighbor Tom Hiddleston
Yes please!
Come on Burton, take Tommy with you and make together a wonderful movie.
Love to know if hes had that conversation with tom. LOL. 😜
Tom who wrote an article for The Guardian on why we need superhero movies.
He’s got some nerve criticizing marvel for being repetitive when like 8 out of his last 10 movies have starred Johnny depp in weird makeup doing a stupid voice with hbc hamming it up in the background.
I love his batmans, but there’s no reason for him to diss marvel movies.
Yep.
x1000. Tim Burton hasn’t made a good movie in years. I think Big eye has potential, though.
The only superhero films that grab me are Marvel’s films with the Avengers and the X-Men films. DC is making a whining mess of Superman, and Batman vs Superman looks like a mess. Spiderman is going to get run into the ground y Sony as they desperately keep making films to avoid losing the rights.
I’d be quite fine with never having another superhero film made. I’ve never understood the attraction and I find them boring, formulaic and….dumb.
Well people seem to have finally gotten tired of Johnny Depp in weird make-up, although he had a very lucrative run!
Seriously, though – look at the top 10 grossing movies this year. People are still spending a lot of money to see superhero action movies. There were 6 superhero movies this year, some of them were well reviewed. Many people on this site don’t like them, but clearly there is a large audience who is not tired of the genre, yet.
Also, TB seemed to be throwing shade at Nolan’s Batman and/or the recent Superman movie to me. Marvel movies aren’t exactly considered ‘dark’.
I don’t get what he is saying. I watched some of the Marvel movies and I absolutely loved them. Very much looking forward to Avengers 2, but I also go watch a lot of smaller movies. Don’t really care about genre or big/small budget as long as the movies are interesting. What I really have zero interest in is Johnny Depp in just another boring Tim Burton movie.
People got sick of YOU Tim Burton. You haven’t done anything great since Big Fish.
I really agree.
Lately it seems like a lot of people are knocking Marvel movies and haven’t actually seen them. Yes, there’s a formula, but they aren’t making “you’re wearing a funny costume” movies. If anything, they’ve toned down a lot of the costumes in order to make them not-distracting/too campy (like Cap’s stealth suit, Hawkeye’s totally new look, un-costumed Scarlet Witch, Falcon’s lack of red spandex, etc). They also have a number of characters who aren’t damaged individuals (Clint Barton is not a total disaster, for instance), or who have, over the course of their character arcs, healed their trauma, like Iron Man. There’s definitely an end-date to superhero movies, in the same way that Westerns eventually went out of style, but I also feel like superhero movies get a bad rap. Not everyone is required to like them, but they bring a lot of people joy. The world sucks but twice a year I know I can go to the movies and Marvel’s latest will make me smile. What is so bad about that?
Amen. They’re so fun.
I agree with him, I’m already tired of them. My husband see them on dvd with me sleeping at his side.
I would not describe Marvel movies as dark. Those are very fun & colorful movies just like a comc book. What about DC announcing their legion of comic Book movies also? As long as Comic book movies have fresh new stories & characters I don’t see the public getting tired. plus how many Batman & Superman reboots have there been? I don’t see him complaining about that. There are characters that we have not even seen adapted to the big screen yet like Wonder Woman, The Flash, Antman etc. Its funny how people laughed at Marvel studios when they 1st decided to make their own movies & create a shared universe. Now other studioes I.e. (wb/dc, fox, sony) are trying to get in on the shared universe thing for comic books. Why aren’t people complaining about the yearly oscar bait movies produced every year. Some actors benefit from the I.e. Kaisers favorite alien overrated cat hybrid Cumberbatch. I don’t see people complaining about the James Bond movies or the Doctor Who show.
I just watched the 1989 Batman because it’s about to leave Netflix streaming. It still holds up and was still enjoyable, but I was surprised how campy it was compared to TDK series. I prefer the grittier TDK series, but his Batman is still a classic.
I’m a little burned out by the glut of superhero movies, but if there’s one getting great reviews, I’ll go see it. The rest, eh.
I like superhero movies, but sure, I agree that there will be a point when people tire of them and want their fluffy entertainment to come in other forms. Gross out comedies, buddy cop films, teen slashers, and a number of other kinds of broad films also go in and out of style.
yeah, but he’s doing a sequel to beetlejuice, which isn’t any better than the endless parade of superhero movies.
new ideas for everyone.
Please, the comics started back in the 40s. There will always be market for the superhero stories otherwise it’s time for Hollywood to stop making any movie that has the hero and villain and the hero saves the day.
I highly doubt marvel and dc cares about Burton has to say, much less some blogger obsessed with an Otter.