Yesterday, Page Six reported that Gisele (seen in the photo above, allegedly) had donned a burqa to “hide” as she entered a plastic surgeon’s office in Paris. Page Six even knew what Gisele was getting done – she apparently went in for a boob job and some eye work. We had fun discussing how this whole thing was very off-brand for Gisele’s shtick of “I’m so natural, I would never do anything to my face or body, if you aren’t eating kale all the time then you’re made of garbage!” As it turns out, Gisele also angered A) Muslims and B) random French people.
The City of Light lit up with rage on Wednesday over supermodel Gisele Bundchen’s use of a burqa as a disguise so she could slip in and out of a Parisian plastic-surgery clinic. The Post revealed on Tuesday how Bundchen and her kid sister wore the traditional Muslim clothing — during the holy month of Ramadan — so the supermodel could have secret work done on her boobs and her eyes.
“Ooh la la!” wrote a commentator on the French-language gossip site Public, responding to the stunning news on the Brazilian stunner — wife of Patriots quarterback Tom “Deflategate” Brady.
“C’est ridicule!!!!” agreed another poster. “To be photographed in a burqa is ridiculous!!!! Especially since it is forbidden in France to wear it!!!!” the poster added, referring to the 2010 “burqa ban,” which bars women from fully covering their faces.
“She would do better to fess up to the plastic surgery because that’s not shameful. I never found her to be beautiful and I definitely don’t like her now,” the anonymous poster sniped.
The plastic-surgery clinic declined for a second day Wednesday to comment. “Pas de tout” (“not at all”) said a woman answering the phone.
Neither Bundchen’s sister, Patricia, who handles much of her p.r., nor Gisele’s Brazilian press handlers would comment. But the French were incensed by the story, many pointing out the hypocrisy of Bundchen wearing a burqa during the Muslim holy month and sneaking into surgery despite past vows to never go under the knife.
“In the street it is illegal to wear the burqa! It therefore violated French law,” wrote another poster. “A cap and a scarf would have been less conspicuous.” Many strict Muslims see the burqa as an important guarantor of modesty — and its abuse during Ramadan as highly offensive.
“She’s not doing it for Islam. This is very bad,” complained Imam Muhammad Abdullah Kamal Al-Azhari of the Astoria Islamic Center in Queens. “She’s wearing a holy thing for a bad purpose.”
A clerk at Islam Fashion in Astoria called the stunt “disrespectful to Islam.”
“This is a religious garment. It’s not so you can hide when you’re going for a doctor’s appointment,” said the clerk, Shazia Raheel, 40.
Still, burqas have been put to far worse use, as cover for terrorists, noted Daisy Khan of New York-based Wise Muslim Women.
“This is almost comical,” Khan said of Bundchen.
Wow, Gisele really pisses people off across the world and across all religions. I personally think it’s telling that Gisele hasn’t deigned to say anything about these reports too – she’s probably waiting until her surgeries heal? Ha. I’ve got to hand it to the New York Post – they really got a great scoop and it’s really brought out the world’s collective Gisele-specific schadenfreude.
Gisele donned a burqa to secretly get plastic surgery on her boobs and eyes http://t.co/gPSrnixGV8 pic.twitter.com/0nyOOdHFxL
— Page Six (@PageSix) July 29, 2015
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Quite the one, two punch to her and Brady.
Obviously she was going to be raked over the coals for using someone’s sacred garment to hide herself for a shallow cause of plastic surgery. It’s funny too considering the effort she went to to hide only for the details to still be exposed, should make for some awkward interviews of people comparing/contrasting her new looks once she does re-emerge.
She and are husband take the top spots on the Most Hated list this week. I can’t wait for the media to do the before and after comparison. They will, of course, have to include photos of her in a burqa with her toes sticking out.
Those two really know how to piss people off.
Most hated after the lion killer guy!
Oh yes, the lion killing cowardly dentist is definitely public enemy #1! Brady and Bundchen probably take places #3 and #4
Just think about how much more hated Brady’s gonna be when the Patriots win Superbowl XLIX.
The hate will be like, off-the-charts!
Kitten, bite your tongue! The Patriots will NOT win the Super Bowl, I’d prefer they not even make it that far.
Somewhere out there Bridget is laughing her ass off now.
that thought makes me so happy!
Love this.
Lol, God-willing, she deserves it.
Mr and Mrs Crest White Strips are having a rough week.
Guess what, no more secret 🙂
How could anyone be so arrogant and culturally insensiti… Oh yeah. It’s Gisele bundchen
Money… Money… Money… what can the star do to stay on top ? To be more popular ? To win more money ? To take care their ego ? So, today, we know !!! to wear a burqa… To use a strong symbol of a part of muslim community…
Waouh !!! What’s a good idea !!!
Little reminder… In France, the wearing of the burqa is strictly forbidden in public space … like in the street … In fact, an act of parliament passed by the Senate of France on 14 September 2010, resulting in the ban on the wearing of face-covering headgear, including masks, helmets, balaclava, niqābs and other veils covering the face in public places… The ban also applies to the burqa, a full-body covering, if it covers the face… In this precise case … Amnesty International condemned the passage of the bill in the Assembly as a violation of the freedom of expression of those women who wear the burqa or hijab…
Today, in France, muslim women brave the forbidden, wear the burqa and end up at the police station for the charge “endangering public security” !!!
So… How can Gisele Bunchen, for her comfort and interest personal, use a clothing charged with controversy, polemics, suffering, religiosity…
That’s “Mrs. Tom Brady”, to you sir!
It’s also telling that even when someone is extremely wealthy, and spoken of as “good-looking” is so insecure of herself that she made these (now futile) efforts to hide it. It’s never enough is it?
To be honest, I only hear some women and gay men say that she’s attractive…men say the meanest things about her that i won’t even repeat, but a lot of them say she looks like a man in drag (tamest).
Agreed. And I said yesterday: Women come in all shapes and sizes and that doesn’t make them any less beautiful, but this one does look way too much like a man.
I remember when she began dating her husband, he was actually prettier than her.
It also doesn’t help that she comes across like a smug, preachy, hypocritical know-it-all.
I think women would be less critical of her appearance, even though, I agree she isn’t that pretty, if she came off as a down-to-earth, humble and sweet individual.
She and Gywneth Paltrow are like two peas, in a very sub par, pea pod.
She always looks shiny and greasy to me, it’s a gift.
I think she looks pretty sometimes, but she usually looks masculine to me. Her body however, rocks.
Yes, her face looks “manly.”
We have a really beautiful beachside suburb in Sydney named Manly. She might like to come and live there? No, never mind…
She’s a disrespectful, smug, manly mare.
I think it’s sad that she has to go to this length to protect her identity, when really, who cares what she has done? What a prison she’s created for herself. All that wealth and fame comes at a price.
Actually, you are wrong. For Gisele, going for plastic surgery at age 35 ruins her ‘brand’. She is all about healthy lifestyle and natural living. Being exposed as an insecure ex model running to paris for plastic surgeries exposes the fraud of what she is selling. All the models do it – she is the most vocal about her ‘healthy’ lifestyle.
Right. She opened that door. Plastic surgery is a norm and assumed at times, but nobody really cares too much if a model gets it done. Their body is their meal ticket. To claim it’s all healthy living and eating though… And be caught in a lie… Hurts her brand.
Many spout the same ‘natural’ line, and it has the potential to impact young girls / women.
I was wondering how long it would take for this issue to come up. What ever happened to a big floppy hat and some sunglasses? Ridiculous woman.
exactly and like the other poster said why not go to that guy in Brazil and his private island. Fools the lot of them her and hubby.
Maybe it’s a typical little road trip for the sisters..you know, some Paris shopping before your boob job.
Yes I thought the same thing (why not go to that island). We know celebs are getting work done all the time but we rarely see photos of them ducking in and out of the offices and hospitals. It seems like a terrible mixture of arrogance and ignorance brought her down – it could have been handled much better.
There’s your naturaly body you start with, there’s the size and shape of implants, and then there’s your surgeon’s “style”. She may not like the Brazillian guy’s style. For example, I once looked at many many plastic surgeon’s galleries out of curiosity and noticed that no matter what nose they are operating on, some have a preferred shape they’re gonna give it – straight, round, slightly upturned, whatever. Same with breasts, I’ve heard of surgeons who prefer a certain shape of implant and insist on it, then some will always try to convince a patient to go smaller/bigger than she’d like, etc.
Then there’s also the fact that some (good) docs won’t take the risk of operating on you if they see from the beginning that you’re not right in the head, hope to treat with your surgery some things in your life that are not related to your appearance, or you’re simply disagreeing on some major issues.
In Giselle’s mind she is so utterly spectacular that she doesn’t feel as if she owes an explanation or an apology. Her arrogance rivals her husband in so many ways.
Can’t stand her, never have and never will. She really got on my nerves when she gave birth and started acting as if she’s the only woman ever to have done so and then started burping out her thoughts on mothering. Her and her cheating husband could both disappear tomorrow as far as I’m concerned.
Nicolette, right there with you. I NEVER got the big deal about this woman, ever, and her opinion of herself, only makes her even more insufferable.
Yeah, aside from the fact that the burqa is a religious garment, wearing it only made her stick out like a sore thumb esp given that it was in FRANCE! She is stupid.
Why does France have a ban on women covering their faces? And why women, specifically?
Sexism and racism, basically. Islamophobia is even worse in France than it is here in the States.
That’s what I was afraid of. Boo. Thank you for your reply, however.
I thought that both women and men are banned from hiding their faces since the law is officially against conqualimg yourself but since men do not cover their faces for religious reasons it does not affect them. But I could wrong.
Actually they banned it because if you can’t see the face of the woman you can’t identify her.
I find the burqa in itself sexist.
France introduced a ban on “ostentatious religious symbols” in 2004. Although this ban technically applies to all religious symbols, Muslims (and Muslim women specifically) are disproportionately affected for a number of reasons. Obviously the hijab and all of its forms (niqab, jilbab, burqa, etc) are more visible than a tiny cross necklace. French Muslims are also often economically and socially disenfranchised from mainstream French society – they don’t have the opportunity to send their kids to private school where say, a Jewish boy would be abel to wear his yarmulke unlike a Muslim girl at a public French school. Also, as Beverly said, sexism, racism and Islamophobia, which is worse in France and rising now due to the RRW.
Kay
Except they were able to identify the woman in a burqa that muredered an English teacher. It is possible to do police work and respect other people’s cultural customs.
Public schools in France have excluded Muslim girls for wearing long skirts, let alone burqas. Whether you’re a fan of the burqa or not, it’s turning out to be a very bad law with steamroller consequences in terms of Islamophobia.
I understand France’s strong cultural attachment to secular public life, but I think this law is making things worse, not better.
Tristan, white cops are out shooting POC everyday too. Literally everyday, i see a new hashtag for someone on Twitter. More unanswered questions and suspicious circumstances. Where’s your outrage there?
However you personally feel about Muslim face coverings should never detract from the fact that there are women who consciously and of their own free will choose to wear them. The same reason I have no interest in banning women from dressing scantily is the same reason I opposed the French legislation. After all, the fact is that many of the women who dress scanty are really just under the influence of that society’s patriarchy which teaches them to reduce their worth to how sexually appealing they are. It is for the (smaller) proportion of women who are simply authentically representing themselves, that we should never legislate against that form of dress. The same should apply for Muslim women.
One could say “Islamphobia” or “preserving French culture.” They do not have the same “melting pot” mythology that we have in America.
The French ban almost ends up being the other side of the coin for laws that require such dress for women in other countries. Functionally, you end up with a small group of people in power legislating how women present themselves to the world.
@Kay: I feel that unless an article of clothing has sexist expressions written over it. the clothing all by itself can’t be sexist. It’s the societal attitudes around a style of dressing that can be sexist. A burka (or other type of just modest or ‘classy’ dressing) isn’t misogyny, but making women wear it, or teaching that she is lower in value, immoral, a wh*re, automatically promiscuous, or responsible for males and people in general treating her or other women badly and disrespectfully if she doesn’t wear whatever modest attire IS misogynistic.
I feel the same way about revealing clothing. Whatever revealing thing a woman is (or isn’t) wearing isn’t automatically sexist, but making or pressuring her to wear it when it’s outside of her comfort zone or implying that she needs to do it for someone does show a sexist attitude toward women.
@Betsy: “Preserving French culture” (or any other culture) doesn’t require them to intolerantly force their culture on others or control what people do with their bodies.
@Gigi: I pretty much agree with you, except I wouldn’t say that ‘most’ women in outfits people consider revealing do so out of a belief that their human worth is based on being sexually appealing any more than I would argue that ‘most’ western women who choose to dress in a way that’s considered classy, conservative, and ‘appropriate’ do so based on the belief that their human worth is dictated by their purity or that ‘most’ women who choose to dress in a more androgynous, grungy, or less feminine way do so out of a belief that their human worth is determined by not being too feminine or ‘like a girl.’ From my own experience whether or not a woman bases her human worth on a look isn’t measured by the look itself, but by how much she freaks out when she thinks she doesn’t look that way and, most importantly, how she judges and treats other women who don’t look that way.
Let me just start by saying that I’m french and a woman and a muslim. And since there’s been reference made to colonialism, I will ad that I’m half black, my father being originated from one former colony.
So here are my points :
1. There’s no more rising islamophobic or racism in France than in the rest of the occidental world. There’s more fear, and the racists and islomophobes are more vocal than they used to be. But they keep getting slammed.
2. There’s nothing islamophobic in wanting to keep public life and streets god-free. This has been French way for centuries, a mean for equality. Some would say that putting a Christian god on money everyone use and having to swear on a Christian sacred book in justice is unfair and irrespectul to a muslim, a jew,…
Head cover, which is not an Islam requirement, is an ostentatious sign of religion, mostly used as a F* Y against schools rules. The same schools that will exclude (for a few days only) someone for wearing one, will also make sure that school meals will provide an alternative to pig meat, and when they have a bording shool part, allowances and arrangements are made for the interns observing Ramadan.
3. It’s not just the burka that is forbidden, but everything that prevent anyone from being identified. That’s not against women, and that not – only- against radical muslims. (Even though we had far more terrorist attacks on our soil that the US)
Let me first remind you that most Muslim women do not wear the burka when and where it’s not enforced. Then let me ask you if youre are that scandalized that the balaclava is (also) forbidden ? Would you feel safe bumping into a balaclava wearing man or woman in the street? I never did. But once, at night coming from work, I saw a tall person wearing a burka across the street, walking toward me. There was no one else and I could not even tell if it was a man or a woman. Somehow, I was so afraid I just ran back to my office and waited for a colleague before going out again.
In conclusion, racism is not every where, and sometimes interpretation through political correctness is just plain non-sense.
Because it is forbidden to hide your face outside of your home .In France,you must be able to justify your identity all time
The burqa is a sign of religious extremism .
It’s the first time that I read that to ban niqab or burqa is not feminist or against Islam.
Islam says that the WOMEN must hide their body and hair and only show their face and hands to the persons ( outside of their family)
Niqab and burqa were imposed by the extremist fanatic Islamists in 90´s
@JaneFR Very true, I love how this site will educate french muslim women about how they’re oppressed.
There’s islamophobia in France, but the burqa has nothing to do with the way french muslims live their religion.
Not going into the political aspect of it, I just want to say that personally I favor the ban on burkas because again personally I find it disconcerting to see a woman so covered up in the streets. Especially since these women are usually walking next to men who are dressed normally and by that I mean casual western style.
Whichever way you look at it, wearing a burka in public is really a clash with French and western cultures and traditions. I can understand why they aren’t comfortable with women covered up from head to toe like mummies walking down their streets.
Same way Algeria or Saudi Arabia or other muslim countries are not comfortable with women walking around scantily dressed and not wearing burkas.
In Iran even the female tourists have to wear veils all the time, even if they’re not muslim. Was I happy? NO. Did I put a veil on my head? Yes.
You respect the country where you are. Lets face it, burka covered women have traditional cultural heritage which is not French, yet they choose to stay in France. If so then adhere to French laws I say, stop trying to turn France into a new version of the country you left behind.
Thank you for all of that information, Tifzlan. I always appreciate your insights. And that’s disheartening.
The worlds not so nice to brown people.
I feel bad about the U.S. problems and then I see ignorance coming from Canada and Australia and feel both better and more disheartened. It sucks everywhere so at least we’re not missing some Mecca but Geez can we just learn to stop being asses to other human beings?
Side-Eye,
I KNOW RIGHT? Compassion, dignity, respect. That is all.
It’s also worth remembering that the Muslim minority in France largely centres on its colonial legacy in North Africa, particularly Algeria. Many of the 2nd/3rd/4th generation Muslim French are from families who chose France’s “side” in the independence war. It’s sad to see them so excluded in the country they chose.
Sixer, that is such a good point. The ban on headscarf definitely reeks of colonialism too.
@Sixer this seems to be a largely unmentioned part of France’s history, and quite an ugly blight too. A huge number of the people that right-wing France seems to hate are French, plain and simple.
Hawkeye – yes. It was a very nasty war. The Algerian heritage French who chose France’s side in it seem to be getting a very raw deal for what was, in effect, colonial loyalty.
(And, as a Brit, I hope I am equally trenchant about my country’s denial in such matters).
Just no. All the Nos. All this passive acceptance and political correctness/ compassion is how the Wahibis are triumphing at spreading their brand of Islam. Head to toe cover has nothing to do with the Koran. If it did then men would wear burquas too. And I live in a country that is approaching 25% muslims. It is not always a question of exclusion. Sometimes it is the case that migrants and first generations do not want to integrate. I get compassion but halt this whole colonialism discourse and think harder please. Am right there with France banning the burqua! The French get a say in how their culture evolves too. Not just the immigrants. And I myself am an immigrant.
@SayWhatWhen: Do you really think that banning the burka- putting yet another restriction on what women wear, what they can do with their bodies- is going to wipe out radical Islam and make extremists/bigots within the religion magically become enlightened and suddenly see the error of their ways after all this time? I don’t see how this ban solves any of that. And I disagree with the argument that controlling how women dress is necessary to preserve or protect French culture any more than I think Christian efforts in this country to dictate what others do with their bodies is necessary to preserve belief in Jesus or in a god.
@saywhatwhen
The white French? I mean that’s who should get decide who h cultures evolve, which stay stagnant, and which now their heads and accept another group ordering them how to live?
Your response is basically, “YEAHHH! I don’t respect or care about my own unique cukture! I want them to put a boot in my neck and tell me how to live!”
Which is perfectly acceptable for you, but not everyone is so fond of control.
@Eternal Side eye – why throw Canada in there? My community is very diverse, and the students who subscribe to the Muslim religion are welcome to wear the clothes they choose. I find it to be very inclusive. I wouldn’t say that the cultures intermingle a ton on their own time, but I find this to be true regardless. I lived overseas as a kid, and the Canadians hung out with Canadians, but were welcome to visit with the locals. Obviously not all communities are the same, so I am wondering what specifically you are referring to.
@supposed
A mural dedicated to Sandra Bland painted in Canada was recently defaced and had to be cleaned and repainted to remove the offensice graffiti.
That was the specific instance I was referring to, although it’s not the only one.
But the rising islamophobic tentencies in France have nothing to do with the ban of the burka. You cannot make a connection there when in fact, there is none. You could also argue the other way round and say that burkas only increase islamophobic tendencies.
It is intimidating not seeing the other persons face. For the person itself wearing the burka it is dangerous because you only see a fragment of your normal view. Women often fall with burkas on. And it is nothing religious, the same as with the headscarf, nothing to do with muslim religion, only with women being inferiour to men.
Merci Alexia!! : But the rising islamophobic tentencies in France have nothing to do with the ban of the burka. You cannot make a connection there when in fact, there is none. I forgot to say that in my post!!
Thank you Alexia! Thank you for pointing out the truth, I love watching other commenters try to turn this into a discussion about religious persecution and that dangerous religious right wing!
This! For all the talk here about women’s rights and equality etc, it’s stunning that the oppression of women in Middle Eastern countries isn’t even a thought. That burqa is a full body gag basically and they have no rights. They are not and never will be seen as equals and those burkas epitomize that. How about the genital mutilation that young girls are tortured with? How about honor killings if a girl/woman is raped and “shames” her family? Walking behind their men, not being allowed to speak to other men. This isn’t oppression? Come on.
@Nicolette: Nobody is arguing that female genital mutilation, honor killings, toxic victim-blaming attitudes about rape, having to walk behind a man, not being allowed to speak to other men, and the lack of rights women face in other countries are not oppression. Every person here would probably agree with you on that.
What people are disagreeing about is the idea that the garment all by itself is the oppression, that others (including the French government) should dictate what women are allowed to wear, that that kind of policing and banning is any sort of ‘progress’ for women and people of other ethnic and religious backgrounds, and that banning that clothing choice will magically end the bigoted and oppressive attitudes and practices of extremists and radicals within Islam- or any other religion or society.
I can’t believe what i’m reading.
Liberals are so liberal that they will tolerate extremism.
There is nothing in the koran that insists women cover themselves from head to toe or even in shrouds.
Burquas are a cultural thing worn by desert tribes to protect people from the elements. Desert tribes have a reason to wear them and they do. Male and female.
The wahabi sect of Islam came out of Saudi Arabia desert and they have convinced the world that their brand of Islam, including their cultural dress is the ONLY interpretetion of Islam.
And the liberals will fight to grant them their wish in the name of tolerance.
There are millions of Muslims across the world who disagree, but Liberals will fight to tell them that they are being intolerant of something that’s not in their religion.
It’s mind boggling.
I live in an area with a relatively high muslim population and the women wear lots of different iterations of traditional dress. Not ONE of them is an extremist, they go about their business same as the rest of us and while I obviously don’t know what goes on behind closed doors they don’t seem to be suffering from any institutional oppression. In fact the worst they seem to get is from other people telling them that their religion is garbage, they’re all terrorists and they should throw their burqas out, kinda ironic really.
oh the irony! She’s probably gotten infinitely more press about her surgeries because of the burqa than she would have if she’d just walked in!
I was thinking the same thing ! If she went there with a pair of sunglasses nobody would have noticed !
CONSPIRACY: Gisele leaked this herself! I’m reaching for my tin foil hat!
So the offensive part is that Giselle wore this garment to a plastic surgeon’s office as a disguise, but no one has a problem with the garment itself, a garment that symbolizes women’s enslavement, subjugation and oppression, a garment symbolizing tribalism, a garment that literally renders women invisible? There is nothing “sacred” about this garment. There is nothing in the Koran that makes this garment necessary, much less “sacred.” It’s a perversion of the faith, an imperative of misogyny and tribalism and patriarchy, not religion.
Word!
Right on.
Exactly. Like nobody is pointing out how low it is that she used a garment that demoralizes women to the very definition of second class citizen (or probably not a citizen at all) to participate in an activity (plastic surgery) that puts unrealistic expectations on women to achieve. Please tell me she was wearing a feminist themed shirt underneath because that would be the icing on the cake! Clueless. It is like they are the typical bimbo and mimbo couple. It is so obvious it is her. Aside from the driver, bitches carried around the exact same backpack into the doctor’s office AND airport.
I agree with you Ms. D but do you really thing Giselle is smart enough to question the use of the burqa at all? Her sister and her probably don’t even know about the ban or that it was Ramadan or even anything about Islam. The whole situation though is hilariously ironic. She needs to get over herself!
THAT, and she didn’t even get it right. She’s wearing sandals. No true Burka wearing Muslim woman is going to have her toes and feet hanging out. It would be immodest. In being completely ignorant and vain, she still managed to only half-ass it.
+1
I was called racist for saying that burqa takes away a woman’s identity and reduces her to her gender, because that’s the only thing you notice about women dressed like that. Only that they are women.
I don’t think it’s racist to see the burqa as sexist, Kay. But I do think it’s an incomplete, partial view. The burqa can be a symbol of patriarchal oppression. However, it can also be an expression of a sincerely held religious faith or a statement of cultural or feminist – yes, feminist – identity.
To deny the latter two realities, and they are realities for many Muslim women, is not necessarily racist, but it is ethnocentric. You know?
It can also be a reaction to perceived Islamophobia. I have a Muslim friend whose daughter has just started wearing a hijab (not a burqa). Nobody in that family has ever covered their hair. But the daughter feels passionately that she is constantly discriminated against and regarded with suspicion because she is Muslim. She’s wearing a hijab as a gigantic FU to the people who judge her. For her, it’s an anti-racist statement.
All’s I’d say, is beware of sweeping generalisations. They are rarely right.
I’ll say there are far more women forced to wear it than those who choose on their own free will.
Yes, Sixer.
But what, aside from ethnocentricity, are you basing that opinion on, Kay? We are talking about Muslim women in western societies. My bet – likely equally unfounded, but at least my circle of friends and relatives by marriage include a good number of Muslims – would be the opposite. Every hijab-wearing Muslim woman I know is making a completely free choice, either from religious, cultural or political beliefs. And more to the point, a good number of the Muslim men I know wish their wives wouldn’t wear hijab because they think it makes them a target for ignorance, hate, and even worse, street attacks. Which do happen. An uncomfortably large number of times.
Thank you @sixer for putting together words on this subject better than I could! I think it’s funny and rude to comment on a culture you don’t really try to understand. My cousin converted to Islam three years ago. In the beginning I wanted to understand, I prayed in a mosque with her, and read the Quran. I respect the people I’ve met and continue to randomly meet for a moment.
Covering up the women is actually more about respecting/protecting them from weak men, and their weak thoughts. Years ago there was mostly only male babies being born. Men needed to hold on and protect their woman if they wanted to keep her. If you had a farm, you need children to help maintain that farm. Not a lot of women to go around, I can see a lot of things occurring from that. That ties into times have changed, it’s time to update….alas this is not mine nor your place! It’s ok to ask questions, to understand, but know when to back off! Let other cultures figure their sh!t out. Just like you want your families business private.
I’m really glad someone raised this point, Sixer. I went to college with many Muslim women (originating from both western and non-western countries) who covered their heads and dressed modestly completely of their own free will. Every single one of them was smart, opinionated, and clearly came from a family that believed in women educating themselves and entering the work force. (And plenty of them were thousands of miles away from their families in pre-Facebook days – it’s not like anyone could check on what they wore to class any given day.) One year I went to a workshop at the career center on choosing clothes for interviews and the guest speaker told one of these students point blank that a floor length skirt would be inappropriate because it’s unprofessional – no regard at all for her beliefs and choices. It makes me very angry when people assume all Muslim women who cover themselves are being forced to do so and need to be “saved” by western women who know better.
Thank you, Sixer and others, for your thoughtful comments. And I don’t think the fact that a lot of women are pressured/made to wear or do something with their bodies ever means that no woman should have the freedom to even make that choice, or that any woman who chooses that thing is promoting or is to blame for misogyny.
Is wearing a burqa really a sign of religious faith though? Most imans in my country say there’s no (explictit) rule in the Qu’ran suggesting you should wear one.
Eh, sorry but I disagree strongly with Sixer. I live in Canada where we have many muslims. All the girls in my child’s school that we know (and we know quite a few). ALL of them, were told if not forced to wear head cover of one kind or another by their FATHERS, not families, FATHERS. So, let’s not pretend this whole “my choice” story is common, please. Next we’ll try to justify something else which shouldn’t be.
On the contrary, Mary-Alice. I have carefully and explicitly commented that the burqa and hijab are sometimes evidence of patriarchal oppression and that to view the wearing of them as sexist is not always wrong. But I have also said that this isn’t the complete picture and given general and personal experience examples where the wearing of burqas or hijabs are free choices made by women for a variety of reasons.
You, on the other hand, are relying on one personal anecdote and extrapolating this to all Muslim women, whether it’s true or not, thus imposing your own personal experience on other women, whether they like it or not.
You have to accept that reality for one is not reality for all. Because you don’t have the right to impose your view on anyone, any more than a Muslim man has the right to impose his on a Muslim woman.
Can’t people see that there’s a HUGE difference between a simple hijab (for the hair only) and a burqa/niqab?
Many french women wear a hijab or even a habaya in the street without problem.
The burqa meaning is totally different, it’s political.
French laws prohibit many things that US laws don’t, doesn’t mean the country is more racist or islamophobic.
Actually people do have a problem with the garment, that’s why it’s been banned in France to the disagreement of many muslim women. At one point I used to feel like you do about it, until I heard how women who actually wore it felt. You can’t tear off their burqa to “liberate” them, just like no one should be able to tell them how to dress. Just saying there are plenty of women who want to wear this or cover their hair it’s their choice and that’s ok.
Thank you Nebby. We cannot reduce other people’s personal autonomy because it makes us uncomfortable or because it doesn’t line up with our concept of freedom. Denying Muslim women their freedom to make religious and sartorial choices is imperialistic. Am I personally comfortable with it? No, it’s not my favorite, but I strongly believe in respecting other’s choices with regard to their religion and their body. Laws that force women to wear burqas are certainly wrong, but so is judging women for how they choose to dress.
This…from the ashes of every cultural issue arises people who choose how to adapt to their culture and why they reject or embrace certain aspects of it.
It’s not an American or English culture, these are women making their own choices and having to constantly defend them. Yes some women will be oppressed into wearing them but some women are currently in sex slavery in their own ‘free’ cultures.
Many women? They are perhaps 0,0001% of french muslim women.
99,99% of french muslim women don’t want to wear it and want nothing to do with the burqa.
A bunch a radicalized women (very often converted with no knowledge of Islam before their conversion) are not representative of french muslim women.
That is a very narrow way to look at it. To many women – including many feminists – it is a sacred garment and an affirmation of their Muslim identity, and it’s not for you or for France to say “no it’s not!” Banning women from wearing the clothing of their choice is sexist and in this case racist. No one should be compelled to wear or not to wear anything, and no one should be scorned or described as a “perversion” because of what they choose to wear.
https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/45667
http://feministing.com/2012/09/02/western-feminism-and-the-burqa/
You are ignoring the fact that oftentimes these women have no choice.
I used to live in a Muslim country where wearing the veil was ‘optional’ and there were many, many, many women there who did not want to be veiled or wear a burqa, but they did it anyways because if they didn’t they would automatically become a slut and a whore in the eyes of society. It was a requirement because it was an option – if it hadn’t been an option it wouldn’t have been possible for it to be made into a requirement – which is what it was if you wanted to be respectable. Sorry, but by ignoring the full context and meaning of these women’s lives you are empowering the patriarchy and not the individual.
I’m not ignoring it at all. As I specifically said, “no one should be compelled to wear anything”.
I am sorry that you had a negative experience in a country where is was an option only in name, but your experience is not universal. Denying women the full agency to make their own choice is actually disempowering the individual, degrading women who choose to wear burqas, and propping up the patriarchy.
Do I love the symbolism of the burqa? No. But I respect the right of women to wear what they want, when they want, even if I don’t like it. Some women choose to wear burqas to represent their faith despite bigoted laws and violent Islamophobes that try to stop them, and I salute those women.
@PennyLane:
“…but they did it anyways because if they didn’t they would automatically become a slut and a whore in the eyes of society.”
You bring up a valid point. But the truth is that this mentality isn’t limited to Islam, Middle Eastern countries, or burkas. Even in America, women and girls are told from childhood onward that if they refuse to yield to other people’s standards of female modesty, they’re sl*ts and wh*res and have no business complaining when they’re seen as, ‘treated’ as, or told that they’re such- whether online, in person, or in media articles. And it’s not just the republicans and religious fundamentalists who spout this rhetoric in America- even atheists, and more liberal or feminist types sometimes have this attitude.
Sexual bullying and misogyny of the sex-negative variety is a global problem. So because of it, there are plenty of women and girls who will shy away from what they really want and who will make sure they’re dressing in attire that mainstream society sees as ladylike/modest/demure/’appropriate’/’respectable’/classy out of fear of being seen as a ‘slut’, a ‘wh*re’, ‘trashy’ or ‘easy.’ Then there are those who choose to dress modestly/classy for reasons that don’t have to do with that. None of that means that women should not have the option of dressing ‘classy’, it means we need to fix society’s attitudes toward women and their bodies altogether. I mean, there is definitely sexism in the fact that male toplessness is legal and acceptable, but when women go topless or even braless they’re automatically ‘petty, sad, trashy attention-seeking immoral ‘sluts’ and ‘wh*res'” and risking legal ramifications. But that doesn’t mean the government should ban women from wearing shirts and bras or that those articles of clothing are sexist oppression all by themselves.
Well it’s called a democracy for a reason. France is a republic, not a kingdom or a state run by any religion, muslim or otherwise.
In a democratic republic the majority rules.
In France the overwhelming majority of women are not muslim, nor do they want to wear a burqa, nor do they want to see women covered in burqas around them.
If you don’t like it, move someplace else. Like Saudi Arabia where women are free to wear burqas all day long. Of course they can’t go outside unless a man accompanies them and they aren’t allowed to drive cars, but they’re definitely free to cover up!!
Absolutely. The burqa itself is much more problematic than Gisele. I agree with the above posters in that it’s not my place to say that it is not a scared garmet, but that doesn’t change that fact that I do take issue with what it stands for. However, as those above have said, it’s not my choice to make.
It is amazingly ironic that Gisele would so cluelessly use a garment that’s designed to make a woman disappear for the sake of vanity.
@Kate….with you %1,000,000!!!!!!
There is 1000% more outrage on this site over the duggars and their oppression of their daughters than any concern over the oppression of women whose religion requires them to be completely hidden from view. The mind boggles.
That is not at all mind-boggling to me. Are you seriously comparing a religious garment to child molestation?
Not the molestation from the brother! I mean all the talk of them being brainwashed unto having babies and no identities of their own. Also, i am not fans of theirs, i just think there are much more oppressed groups than the ones who get reality shows.
Nope, my religion requires no such thing. Try again.
@Francesca, people can be outraged over more than one thing. The Duggars are examples of bad people. Should people not be outraged about the molestation and hypocrisy that occurred in that household? What’s the correct outrage ratio of Duggar outrage to religious oppression outrage?
@Tristan, Islam is a religion, not a “religion.” There are over a billion faithful, and guess what? Most 10 year old Muslim girls aren’t married. But more to the point of your bigotry: child marriage is not new and not exclusive to Islam. Child marriage has been practiced for far, far longer than it has been banned/illegal.
My outrage increases with acts of violence and decreases with bad hairdos.
Lol at a bunch of xenophobic, Islamaphobic people who think they know every intricacy of a religion they don’t follow. You read a few lines in a newspaper, watch some TV and think you’re educated and edified on the subject? How dare you try and police what women wear. Whatever they WANT to wear is nothing to do with you. Women can go out in next to nothing but covering up? OH GOD, HOW OPPRESSIVE. That view is wholly unfeminist in itself.
“To live in a culture in which women are routinely naked where men aren’t is to learn inequality in little ways all day long. So even if we agree that sexual imagery is in fact a language, it is clearly one that is already heavily edited to protect men’s sexual–and hence social–confidence while undermining that of women.” – Naomi Wolf- The Beauty Myth.
Personally, I think I woman who has made a decision to be judged on her character and not on her physical characteristics is cool.
Sick of orientalists who think they can control the narrative on Muslim women.
Look at this:
https://sayatblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/tumblr_lb2zvjufte1qeo8kqo1_500-1.jpg
It’s funny to me because I think the advancement of women being independent gets you slammed on both sides.
If a woman makes an informed choice to capitalize and expose her sexuality (based on the fact men can be frank and open about sex) she’s slammed.
If a woman chooses to be modest and cover parts of herself based on the fact she doesn’t want to share her sexuality (based on the fact men have been depressing women physically) she’s slammed.
There is no correct answer for a woman exept for her to melt into the nothingness of the background and assume her most inoffensive form as wallpaper.
Brilliantly said. That is because people usually want women to conform to THEIR beliefs instead of allowing them the freedom to choose for themselves.
@MelissaManifesto Exactly. Sometimes it seems like until every woman and girl, be she cis or trans, takes on the mold of generic modestly-dressed (but only if the modesty is in a modern, western, non-Islam- related or non-religion-related way) Plain Jane, too many progressive-types will never be satisfied and will always be screaming “Patriarchal Oppression!” at the physical appearance choices that women make instead of at society’s attitude toward traditional womanhood and their bodies.
Campaigning for a society where no woman is free to make a choice with her body that makes us uncomfortable, and calling that ‘progress.’ Because feminism.
A good resumed assumption. Women love to hate women.
I’m not sure how this is a example of Women love to hate women. If this was not Gisele she would have come out and said so. Just like when Forbes said she made more then what she did, she was quick to deny their claims. She is in the wrong here and so yes she deserves to be called out.
As someone said below this is not a case of women hating women. That is Giselle there are pictures of her chauffeur walking in the clinic with her. He’s the same chauffeur that was seen her at the clinic on June 30th as well as many other places in France.
So yes she deserves the criticism she is getting for wearing the burqa.
ESE & LRM — yes
@boredbrit – This would make sense if France specifically targeted muslims and their way of dress. ALL ostentatious symbols of religion are forbidden; not sure how you made the leap to “Islamophobia” or that it’s policing what people wear, when others are affected (and expected to fall in line) as well.
I still do not like many of the way women are considered/ treated in some parts of the muslim world, or how western women are viewed by some men.
Some things that are written in those religious laws that apply to everyone, be it from the same religion or not, or the same sexuality or not it is, in my view, appalling.
I know there are some very forward countries, where women can work, participate and live a more independent life, but in a more extremist way of the same religion there are countries where women cannot even travel alone or drive themselves, or are watched by some kind or religious police.
I cannot but compare how my mother’s family would have fared if they had been born in such a country. In my mom’s family, my grandpa was a farmer who wanted more for his family, because his children (in the 20’s/30’s) were dying of accidents far from medics, etc. The one who was able to study and work in the city and be successful was my mom, who was modestly successful and brought her family to the city and they were able to get treatment for her ailing mother, etc. and helped her younger sisters and little brother to go through college before finally getting married and form a family, continuing being successful at her job, attending meetings, etc.
I think of my mom and I just cannot think of an extremist culture of not letting women become more than a certain role would have made her happy. Note that I am talking of extremes, some people here may be experts and know if a woman who’d wear a burka could attend a meeting with strange men (principals, supervisors, teachers), or travel to other cities, towns with her male secretary to supervise schools with mixed gender teachers and students (and in a very macho dominated country, even more back then).
Ouahh! If only they were actually allowed to speak and be known and judged on their character !
Please! Just because a few actually choose (for reasons that have nothing to do with religion, since, again it is not asked for in the Coran) should not hide/ excuse the fact that the burqa is a symbole of women oppression and lacks of rights in the countries they are mostly used.
How can one be offended by cultural appropriation, black painted face and not see how offensive defending the burqa is ? It is not about the right to choose to show or not your body. (There are other ways to not show your body, that many muslim and non-muslim women actually use). It is about choosing to done an outfit thet is used to make women disapear.
Before talking about feminism, maybe you shoul educate yourself about what the burqa is.
A few facts worth learning :
The niqab is a cultural tradition and has nothing to do with Islam. The “Islamic world” goes, roughly, from North Africa to China. The niqab was traditionnelly worn only in the Arab countries of the Arabian Peninsula such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Oman.
The burqa derives from the niqab and the traditional afgan tchadri and is a 20 years old gift from the talibans.
My comment ( n°51) is not at the right place, it was intended in response to the “Personally, I think I woman who has made a decision to be judged on her character and not on her physical characteristics is cool.” comment N° 45 and 46.
The enforcement of burqa is definitely a result of the Taliban and associated movements, but the garment existed well before two decades ago. It was just infrequently sighted and cities and more restricted to either the intensely pious or deeply restrictive rural communities.
Yet, it’s interesting that we as women are forced into two ‘views’-either showing your looks or showing your character???? Who is in charge of this system that pits the two against one another? Who decided there are only two choices: Cover up or not? Sure, it’s a western bias that the clothing is oppressive. At the same time, it’s a cop out that the opposite means culturally relevant or empowering to women. I see there’s a backlash against assimilation into western standards for everything. But who is the joke on, in the end? Women are still assimilating to some standard set from external and patriarchal forces. And no, I don’t think cultural relativism always holds water.
thanks to all here for the passionate commentaries — why I love this site
Agreed boredbrit. I also wanted to drop this link for anyone who is rethinking their views:
Don’t be outraged for Muslim women by Nesrine Malik
Western feminists should not assume everyone’s struggle mirrors their own – their obsession with the burqa has a patronising whiff
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/aug/26/muslim-women-feminism-burqas
Thank you Beverly, you seem to be the voice of reason in the comments!
Beverly, Thanks for sharing that article link.
@ Beverly – From the article: “Neo-colonialist sensitivities run deep in Muslim societies and many a fruitful joint venture can be sabotaged due to such prickliness.”
This is so, so, so true, and can’t be repeated often enough.
Thanks for posting this Beverly. I’m often in the minority when I say I find it horribly arrogant when other women get “outraged” about Muslim women wearing the burqa or niqab, or in more extreme cases, a hijab, and feel the need to demand they don’t wear them.
Having an opinion on Muslim practices of attire and even a wider discussion of misogyny therein is one thing. By all means, have that (respectful) discussion.
What gets on my nerves is how people feel compelled to tell a Muslim woman that she’s being oppressed because she’s being told what to wear, and do so by… telling her what NOT to wear. What kind of “liberation” is that? Is that not replacing one tyrant with another? It’s like they’re not even asking the woman herself what SHE wants. They’re assuming she’s being oppressed, which may not be the case. I’ve always found that very arrogant and condescending.
Just a question: It is my perception that in later years these ways of covering are becoming more popular. Is it or it isn’t? If I read correctly, the taliban way with the net over the eyes, etc. was common there, but now in some (most?) parts of what is being dominated by IS, there is a kind or religious police that reinforces the use of a complete black covering, even including sometimes the hands, and there is a YT video secretly filmed of a girl being told to cover herself better by that kind of police.
Maybe it is my perception, but maybe this way instead of letting women choose how to dress or cover, etc. It is becoming in some parts more of an imposition, and due to social media, those ways are becoming more common in other countries. Am I wrong?
Also, as you feel judged by others, Can you tell me if yes or no.. a woman like me, from a different religion, from a country with different ways is regarded as a “bad woman” or else just because of her religion or way of dressing?
I know somebody that had a very bad experience in SA because she made the mistake of waving hello to a new neighbor in her secluded complex, who ended up being a muslim Egyptian who sued her or something because she said hi. She and her husband had to leave the country. Are people with these mentality, that western women are (bad word here) transferring to European countries? Is harassment of western female tourists real in some parts of the Arab world? Woild that start happening on the streets of France, for example? Why?
Leaving the country, well that is hard.
Well, one of my Cousins converted 14 years ago,because the man she fancied came from a strict muslim family that originated from Saudi arabia. The father of the groom never even shook her hand before she became muslim, she never met any of the women of the family before the markiere. When she first met her husband,both were studying to become dentalists. He was living like any normal Student.
My Cousin always was wearing modest and praktical clothing.
After she married him she started wearing the niqab like every “good Saudi women”.
She stopped studying. The University where she was at before has mixed classes. Male and female together studying in one room without something to divert them was not her way anymore.
We, her family before she became muslima were hearing less and less from her, when she called she was reverencing her mother-in-law as her Mother now and called her own parents by their birthnames. Before she called them mom and dad.
It is now 9 years since she last spoke to any of us.
She is the only child her parents still have (there were two older sisters that died in a car accident), but whenever the parents tried to contact her, she and /or her “New” family blocked every tiny bit of contact.
The whole family, even her husband and she got back to Saudi Arabia 8 years ago where he now Works? Maybe there are Children?
Neither her parents nor anyone else of her “Western family” was allowed at the Wedding.
We were told we all are Haram. The husbands father was a imam paid by Saudi arabia, to spread wahabism in a mosque paid by Saudi Arabia.
More then 18 percent of the mosques in my country operate that way.
I am married to a turkish man of muslim believe that hates Erdogan and is really relaxed about Religion.
I don’t were a scarf in my country nor in the big cities in turkey but in the last few couple of years it get unsafe to not wear a headscarf countryside in turkey. People reverting to more convertism. The sister of my husband is married in a small town and had started wearing headscarfs a couple of years ago and she told me she had to because the customers of the Shop her husband were pressuring him about his “immodest “wife.
@ria
I’m sorry for your family ria.
And you’re right, it’s much more complex issue than simply “I wear what I want cause I’m a feminist”. It seems than a lot of commenters have no idea about what being a woman in a muslim society means.
Scary story Ria 🙁
Goes to show that yes muslim women cover up of their own free will – because they were taught to do so by others and because they want to please their family and gain respect from men.
It’s so true! It has to be a personal grudge against Islam because hey, I don’t see anyone standing up for the catholic nuns and their veils and dress.
@ange
A muslim philosopher had an answer for this one and no one has to agree with him.
Nuns like monks are part of a clergy, they cut themselves from the secular society and live for God.
Islam doesn’t have a clergy, muslim women are not nuns, they’re part of the society. By the way, muslim women can wear a hijab in the french public space.
It’s a question about how we live together in a public space, not in different symbolic spaces because of a faith.
Two very different contexts.
But freebunny I’m not looking at it like that, I’m looking at how the commenters here are reacting. So much ire and ‘oh that’s sexist and oh those poor oppressed women!’ when they aren’t looking at other religions that oppress women just as much. It reeks of islamophobia.
Great article.
I’d also like to point out that some of the same feminist/progressive types who will defend hurling every stereotypical and misogynistic slur and argument in the book at women who reject female modesty with the defense that their choices with their bodies are wrong… degrading…(which means lowering people in value, btw) anti-woman …worthy of attacking people for…. ‘automatically means women are lesser’….. not a valid choice simply because the pressure on women to present sexy bodies for men EXISTS, etc…..
……. are also some of the same ones fighting against a woman’s right to even be able to wear the burka, hijab, or other traditionally modest wear because it ‘automatically means women are lesser’ with the argument that it’s not a valid choice because there exists pressure on women to dress modestly based on the patriarchal idea that not doing so makes them (insert same misogynistic slurs and stereotypes they were hurling at the immodest women).
Isn’t it interesting?
Both are examples of the whole, “The answer to ending women’s oppression is keeping women from dressing certain ways” brand of feminism/liberalism/progressivism that certain conservative/libertarian people with opposing intentions love.
@boredbrit – and I don’t think it’s appropriate to extrapolate xenophobia or Islamphobia from any of the above comments. Islam in practice has startlingly sexist views on the sexes, and yes, I am aware that one of Muhammad’s wives was a businesswoman and he embraced that.
@Betsy “startlingy sexist views on the sexes” is true of every religion, in any modern or historical context.
@Hawkeye – it’s true of ALL of mankind, well outside the religious realm as well.
Really enjoying your comments Beverly. People act like they’re brand new to history to make a bigoted point.
A MUSLIM girl was specifically targeted for wearing a long skirt to school.
She was “targeted” because of her attitude! The skirt AND her attitude were provocative and ostantatious. Even her Mum said she wanted her daughter to respect the school policies and stop all that “bullshit” .
Kate thank you !!!
people who explain that the burqa is a religious garment his pretended not to understand that this horror has nothing to do with religion but with the place of women in society ( this is confirmed by absolutely all religious specialists Muslims except those paid by Saudi Arabia) .
I am French and Moroccan origin since earlier I read a lot of idiocy and error over France on whichthe I will not expatiate but just say that each country ‘s history and its journey and I know that secularism is not always easy to understand also seen just remember that France experienced many long wars of religion ( Catholic and Protestant )
Giselle confirms to each output stupidity
I have plenty of problems with the burqa, I think it’s an insult to humanity. But when one argues that view, there’s always a big chorus of “oh, the women choose to wear it!” Okay.
I agree. Somebody elsewhere said that women choose to wear it to protect themselves or because their family wants to protect them, why not make them go out in a cage while you’re at it?
If it’s for safety reasons, religious reasons, or moral reasons they should ALL wear them, male and female.
@Kate, perfect!!!!!! Drop the mic and walk away you absolutely nailed it.
yep thanks Kate!
Agreed.
I’d rather live in a country which bans burqas than in a country which forces women to wear burqas.
I knew this would happen especially as the French banned them. Unless that’s changed.
The thing is, I’m sure they thought they were SO clever with this ruse. I was pretty neutral about her before, but now I dislike her too.
Yes me too. She was annoying, but I didn’t care really. But now… pfft, she’s moved over to the dislike pile of idiot celebs
Someone in the clinic must have tipped off the media.
Lol perhaps she was rude to the staff at her initial consultation and they thought they would reward her for her kindness. Lol
Since there are pap photos of her at the clinic a week or so before surgery without her disguise plus another set of her in her covering, there had to be inside tip from hotel, clinic or other staffer.
My hunch is this was not revenge but payday to some insider who got money from the NYP to give them time and dates of her appointments so they could have pap onsite.
Lol that reminds me of a friend I had when I lived in Africa – she would recount these kinds of stories with relish and then finish up with, “That’ll teach you to be nice to people!”.
The interesting thing for Gossip is who tipped off the media? This was a complete set up with a diagram (“that is her long time driver of five years”; “the short girl is her sister”; “she checked into the Bristol hotel”: “here is a photo of her at Charles De Gaulle airport on her way back”)
Those clinics are discreet and want more VIP celebrities, if they can’t be trusted celebrities go elsewhere. Don’t want paps at their door. Most likely lowly hotel worker seeing her leaving her room wearing a big obvious banned burqa. Or pap sitting outside a VIP hotel who saw her getting in the car driven by her personal driver. She was tailed from the hotel to the clinic. So dumb to wear a banned garment that everyone notices and stares at AND to use your driver all paps know works for you exclusively AND wear eye catching designer shoes (yes I know many rich Muslim women do this) AND come back to your hotel. She could have had an assistant pack up all her stuff and check her out a day after she has already gone to her recovery place. I do believe she is a smart business woman but may lack street smarts?
This is way too “inside baseball”. This is someone in her circle.
I think it’s fascinating how a rumour can be used as a weapon and get blown out of proportion without evidence. There is NO evidence this is her. There is NO evidence. They have a woman wearing a burqa on the coverand a bunch of pictures of the same and all they have is “she came out of a car that seemed to have her drivers?
I’m not saying this is wrong, I’m not saying they are lying, I’m saying it’s crazy how magazines will sell to show a woman under a burqa that may or may not be Giselle. It’s absolutely unbelievable. We are buying whatever they are selling. Fascinating.
But anyway I still love gossip and Im not her fan I’m just in awe of the phenomenon.
You make a fantastic point, and I’ve thought about this myself. What if we find out that it wasn’t her? It is really interesting that we’ve mostly just accepted it at face value. That said, whoever is under that burqa was dim enough to wear open-toed shoes, and I would not be at all surprised if it were Gisele.
Supposedly there’s quite a bit of evidence pointing to it being her, this isn’t quite a guessing game. Someone mentioned her being set up because of how many shots the paparazzi were able to get to really show that this is 99%her.
Page Six was more specific about the driver than you are claiming. The piece specifically said she has employed this particular driver for 5 years.
Her sister is carrying the same black bag/backpack at the airport as the shorter woman in the burqa is. That would be an extreme coincidence.
Yes I agree it is very much possible/probably her, but still. This evidence would never hold in court. it’s all circumstantial IMO.
Anyway it’s interesting.
If this isn’t her, then why, as Kaiser so astutely pointed out, has she not come forward to deny that it is ? Also, why hasn’t she threatened to sue the Post if they didn’t print a retraction?
If I were her, and it wasn’t me, I would be on the horn to my lawyers ASAP. Her silence isn’t golden. To be honest, even if it came out it wasn’t her, I would still be questioning why it took her so long to respond? When accused of something like this, I feel, time is of the essence. The longer one takes to react, the more suspicious it seems to me. It also doesn’t help that she has been proven a liar about herself, and her image before, so her credibility, is inferior.
More easily identifiable than Mickey Rourke.
You’re totally right.
See now why French law and law enforcement had a problem with the burqa?
It was a good idea for a disguise, if she had thought to use a different driver!!!! Many wanted/escaped criminals have escaped to other countries by donning the burka, others have held up jewellery stores in this disguise. Nobody should be allowed to hide their identity in public like that, for any reason, she looked ridiculous as all people do in disguise no matter what they’re reason for wearing it.
Religious people are not special, their ‘sensibilities’ are offensive to everybody not like them because everything and everybody non fanatical offends them so who cares what they think?
I can’t speak for all religious people but as a Muslim, i find it pretty offensive that Muslim women who choose to wear hijab or niqab are continually told that they are oppressed to the extent where laws are passed because these garments are not “compatible with French values of social equality” or whatever but people co-opt it for their own interests all the time – whether it’s a Halloween costume or going to the plastic surgeon’s.
I don’t agree with the burqa at all, whatsoever but the garment is also rarely seen outside of Afghanistan, where it originated yet the ban in France affects all Muslim women. Many of them choose not to go out or work because of this ban. What’s the difference between the French government forcing women to take hijab off and the Ayatollah in Iran forcing them to wear it?
I’m with you 100% tifzlan.
+1 tifzlan – An important principle of a free and democratic society is protecting certain rights such as freedom of religion (non violent religion) even those we oppose.
The burqa has nothing to do with the heritage of muslins people living in France (who mostly come from maghreb). It’s more of a “political” clothe.
France maybe doesn’t have the best way to deal with the implantation of a new religion on our land (and this is a huge challenge), but this is OUR way, the result of OUR history, not another country history.
@tifzlan: I am not going to argue your point – I love being from a free and open society, love the multiculturalism that we strive for (not always a smooth ride, though), and I love cultures. All the novels I read in my free time are written by foreign authors that represent their own cultures because I feel is is important to be knowledgeable and respectful.
With all of that – why do people in general want to move to a country that actively opposes what they stand for? France’s stance on secular/political issues is very clear. I would truly like to hear opinions or insights into this. I wouldn’t move somewhere that actively works against my fundamental beliefs.
@lili
100% with you. In my home country it’s not allowed either. If someone doesn’t like our laws which reflect our history, they have the democratic right to leave any day. I also stand up for my home country’s decisions and laws and find them comforting.
@MinnFinn
Burqa and religious rights? Not the right example. The Quran doesn’t advise or even less so require a Burqa at all! Let’s not equate religion, church institution, mosque and politics. Just like we don’t want to equate religion and Catholic church and its actions, for example.
@supposedtobeworking
Because they feel like any country has to *guarantee* them their way not them to adjust to the country’s way. Because they want the freedom and better life, and options but not the rules and limitations or laws of the new country. Sorry but that was shown during a recent study in Canada, as well. Muslim society does not encourage integration for various reasons. The study also showed that the gap between “regular” (stupid term but don’t know how else to describe the Christian Canadians or the non religious ones) and Muslim Canadians is getting wider with less chances to be covered by a bridge. Muslims insist on living “their life by their rules” in a country which does not come packed with same rules. They also refuse to adapt or change. Please don’t tell me now “the Muslims I know” because the study covered thousands of people and is not about who you know or what your aunt and uncle did. It’s not my personal impression, it was on The Loop a few weeks ago. But my personal impression is the same.
“What’s the difference between the French government forcing women to take hijab off and the Ayatollah in Iran forcing them to wear it?”
The difference is that Iran is predominantly a muslim country, and France isn’t. France is predominantly a non-muslim secular country.
Why not move to Iran where your faith and cultural values would be more appreciated? Why remain in France?
If you don’t agree with French laws, no one is forcing you to stay.
So you don’t care what a group of people think because their opinions differ from yours? Opinions on something that involves them and their sacred garments and nothing to do with you?
Just basic humanity to care about giving a human equal respect.
With you ES-E!
Your “opposition” to Muslims’ religious choice sounds just as fanatical as you claim religion to be. How ironic.
Tippippi, The consequences of your rule deny people a right to freedom of religion. Apparently that’s ok with you since it’s not your faith.
And wth? Your rule means a burn victim (or other facial injuries) can’t wear face bandages in public. And in cities like mine (Minneapolis) with several winter days of subzero weather (-1F OR -17C) any uncovered flesh is frostbitten within a few minutes.
The French law does not deny anyone their freedom of religion. Muslim women still can pray, go to the mosque, wear a hijab, speak Arabic, celebrate Ramadan and Aid-El-Kebir etc and they do so! Muslims and Jews are provided special menus at school, restaurants, company’s self-services etc and you can find hallal and kasher food in any supermarket. Muslims also are provided places where to perform the Aid ritual sacrifice. Asking for someone to be able to see his/her face and to be a part of the French society is not unreasonable, I think. Overall, after living in London (where you can see LOTS of burqas and nikabs, sorry for those who say they are limited to Middle-Eastern countries) and in Spain, where racism is rampant (eventhough they have a limited number of inmigrants), I find the French rather accomodating, as long as people don’t force their religion onto others and respect the state’s secularism. Also, it is rather interesting to read non-french, non-muslim people defending the burkas in France when several French muslim women have explained why the burka is nor a muslim garment, nor compatible with French secular values. Don’t you think they must know what they are talking about?
I don’t know what the problem is here honestly.
When people dress as priests or nuns during Halloween nobody makes a big deal out of it.
But here it’s like she’s committed the worst sin ever by trying to hide herself from paps.
When she was a model, she had to sell a certain product – like she had to have a naturally thin body with no boobs and stuff.
Obviously, she has been made that way and maybe she promised herself once she was out of the modelling business, she’d be able to get her boobs slightly enlarged. I’m sure it’s still going to look natural. She probably liked the pregnancy boobs so maybe that’s what she got but honestly, I don’t see any reasons why world is shaming her about it.
A lot of people get outraged when someone dresses like a nun or priest for Halloween, especially the sexy nun or priest.
You actually made me think about it, but I guess it’s the different context between the two situations (Halloween and going to plastic surgery) that makes it offensive. I wouldn’t know now how to explain the context in a decent way, but I think that if she was dressed as a nun, it would be stupid and clueless of her as well. Still, I think you have a very good point here.
Not to mention how ignorant people is regarding eastern religions. Generally, those who dress as nuns or priests have a slight knowledge on the religion they are offending.
I don’t either even though I think it’s stupid. People just like to get outraged. And I get outraged too but not about silly stuff like this. BTW, I kind of figured all people who need their looks for their jobs have plastic surgery, botox, etc. It’s what people do now, especially women famous for their looks.
I was reading on some news site that she likely could have gotten away with the ruse…except for the fact that her chauffeur of many years was seen driving, AND she was wearing open-toed sandals (showing her bare feet).
Gisele Bundchen = sly as a … turkey?
How offensive. Shame on her.
What’s offensive?
I, honestly, feel bad for your private business getting out there. It is invasive. She would have issued a statement by now saying it was not her, so I take from that it was her.
But the whole burqa thing, what was she thinking? Just go to a plastic surgeon that you can pull into a private parking garage and go in and leave with privacy. This is just embarrassing. Someone tipped off the press about this and I imagine it was from the plastic surgeon’s office. I feel that is also invasive, selling this infor, that she was going there for work done. She deserves her privacy. If she wants her boobs lifted and a little bit of the saggy skin over her eyes done, that’s her right. She never tries to conform to the beauty of a tiny nose and massive boobs or even eyes with big lids. I think whatever she has done in the past has stayed true to what she looks like anyway, just a little tweaking or enhancing.
But now she just looks so idiotic having shrouded herself in a burqa. That is offensive. But, overall, I still feel fad for Gisele, because she was set up by someone, and this is her private business.
When your in the public eye you cannot expect to have a private life. Sorry you chose this profession, so now you have to deal with these situations. I don’t feel bad for her at all.
Jayna, I agree that in the event that someone at her clinic tipped off media, that is wrong.
But if some random person happened to figure this all out just by being in the right place at the right time when she exited her car and they happened to recognized her driver, well that’s too bad. It is the price a person pays for democracy and use of public space.
I don’t know what the privacy laws are in France regarding healthcare information. In the U.S., if a healthcare employee tipped off media, they and/or their clinic would be facing sanctions and fines. We have specific laws that healthcare providers cannot disclose any patient information to outsiders. If someone calls a hospital for a patient update claiming to be a relative, the hospital won’t even confirm the person is a patient without the proper pre-authorization from the patient. Providers must also take preventive measures to protect their patients’ identity. Most sites had to remodel certain parts of their facilities to improve preventive measure for protecting information.
Someone was tipped off or she was followed. No way a regular person would recognize her driver so easily.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
She’s ridiculous!
The sandals, a scandal!
Well, this went poorly.
#ronswanson4eva
Selfish witch!!!!
Is it really her? Anyway, it’s annoying and sad how the most famous brazillian woman nowadays is Gisele Bundchen. When someone (on tv or magazines, never an ordinary citzen) says she “represents brazillian beauty” I feel like crying.
Hahhaha — this instantly made me think of that prison scene in Legally Blonde when the law firm’s client, a wealthy exercise studio head played by Ali Larter, is horribly upset about revealing her murder alibi to Reese’s character.
Liposuction to get rid of cellulite! Oh the horror! That was a perfect fit for that particular movie.
Where did she even GET the burqa? Did someone sell it to her or loan it to her? Did they not think “she’s not Muslim…………….. wait a second!”
You know, I didn’t even think of the logistical planning behind all of this. This is a good question.
Why would she need an eye job at her age… that seems intense.
FWIW- Not a fan of Giselle here in Boston. She is actually kind of snotty and not well loved here.
Eh.
As for Bradys outcome with NFL- did the punishment really fit the offenses? There are NFL players who abuse drugs and gf’s and wives and have gotten less…. of course he is a worshipped hero here but that is a legitimate questions that remains.
Brady is a pretty straight guy and always respectful here in the community. Does a lot for charity and puts his heart in to things. Loves his kids to pieces and help built one of the most successful franchises in NFL History.
He kind of did get raw deal– not a huge Football Fan but even if I wasnt from here would most likely think the same.
Apologies for posting on non-corresponding threads today.
Best from Beantown- New Girl
And he cheats in football. Don’t forge that!!!
I don’t believe he does. He’s not the person whose job was to inflate the balls.
My comment probably won’t make it past The Mod Squad but I’m going to give you the same advice that my boyfriend gave me: do not post about Brady or any football-related topics on a gossip site 😉
Check the forums on Boston.com–lots of enlightening and interesting comments going on there, particularly the red-herring bit about Brady destroying his phone.
Yeah, the Post is obviously full of Jets fans writing stories.
Oh I avoid the Post like the plague! lol
Actually, the New York Giants are the number one football team in the area. I am a Giants fan, and guess what?, we don’t all care for the Pats either. It’s not just the Jets fans.
But is that really her? How can you know for sure? Anyway, it’s a dumb thing to do.
Isn’t Gisele a squillionaire? Why not have the surgeon come to her home for a consult? I would think she’d have concierge service for this.
I don’t think you can do house calls for major surgery.
Giselle should have worn a NY Yankees baseball cap, some ugly ill-fitting clothing, sunglasses, flip-flops, and a fanny pack instead. Nobody would’ve recognized her.
I don’t actually care about Giselle and the Burqagate. I just find it funny to be honest. She got ”caught” and her fakeness got revealed, I don’t necessarily like her so I’m amused.
But I do take offence when I read things about France being a racist, misogynist,
anti-feminist…etc country.
We have our issues like any other countries but we also have our history ( bad and good ) that made France what it is today which is: one if not the 1st visited country in the word. Not even talking about the culture, food, social security ( agreed that it also has is problem but still ) etc…
Some people risks their lives to come and live there even if that means leaving their family abroad and being unlawful citizen.
Anyways, all I’m trying to say is that before judging our laws because they differ from yours you should make sure you have the big picture about we’re we stand from as a nation and where we want to go or not to actually.
I’m leaving abroad right now and when I come across things that really differs from what I’m used to back home I’m trying to understand where does that come from and 99% of the times it makes sense whether you agree with it or not. But at least you know why people do things a different way than you do.
And that’s part of the world and its beauty.
We shouldn’t be so quick to judge and force our way of life and views on others.
Elle, I’m an out and out francophile. I love the people, the language, the landscape, the food, and also, importantly, most aspects of the culture. I might be critical of this one aspect, but be assured, my love for France in toto remains undiminished!
:))))))) Merci Sixer! ça fait plaisir!
I usually read the comments and rarely post anything cause I always find someone who shares my opinion so it doesn’t make sense for me to post.
But when I read hurtful things like I did about France I feel like I need to defend my country no matter how imperfect it is.
But thanks for the kind words! 🙂
De rien!
The daft thing is that, as an atheist myself, I really do understand the importance France puts on separation of religion and state and secularism in the public sphere. I just think that this particular drive for it is backfiring nastily.
I’m a huge Francophile as well! I get very irked when I see hurtful things about France, just like when I see the same about the US. We love you guys! 🙂
IKR?
I’m religious myself and I believe that everyone should be able to wear what they want whether it’s religious or not. But I also do believe that people should comply with the law even if they don’t agree with it . And as it is right now in France people don’t actually pay attention to burqa. There have a few incidents here and there with police and women wearing burqa ( Identity check ) when it got way out of order for no reasons. And I blame both police and women in those cases because things could have gone without any incident every time if it wasn’t for zealousness from both side.
Anyways, I blame both our last governments for the major crisis we’ve been through lately whether it’s is regarding the “religious law” , same sex marriage, adoption…etc
They should listen to the People more. 🙁
On vous aime aussi AcidRock!!! Beaucoup d’ailleurs!!! 🙂
YES! Cheers to MinnFinn, AcidRock, and Sixer.
@Ellecommelejour- As both a French and American citizen, I mostly agree with you and I take the criticisms of France (a country that I consider a second home) personally as well. I do however, firmly believe that France’s relationship with the Muslim community has become an increasingly contentious and problematic one.
On a positive note, I so much admire the true separation of church and state that France has managed to achieve and sustain. Wish we had that in the States.
@ Kitten: “firmly believe that France’s relationship with the Muslim community has become an increasingly contentious and problematic one.” Exactly!
C’est un dialogue de sourds between the politics and the Muslim community because as Freebunny andLili said : “French muslims come from countries or have their roots in countries where the burqa didn’t exist until very recently” and “This fact seems to go totally over the head of most non french people posting here. The way it is wearing in France (with absolutly no roots in french muslim culture) is a political statement, not a way to honor Islam.”
Right now basically you can not ” criticize ” the burqa or Islam “”””problem”””” without people being labeled as racist / crazy Catholic / Jewish…etc and on the other side the Muslims are seen as terrorists.
So as long as everyone is trying to force their opinion on others and not let the society change slowly : we ‘re screwed!
Free and Lili thanks Girls! Couldn’t have said it better!
Also I never knew there as so many French and Francophone here!!! Awesome!
@ Ellecommelejour and other commenters below-I hope everybody reads your post. This is how it’s been explained to me by my family as well. I think many of us are viewing the issue through the American lens, without the benefit of French context.
Merci mes amis!
Vive la France! France is the only place across the pond I’ve visited several times and will continue to visit. And for the record, I abhor the burqa but I support a woman’s right to choose to wear one. But France being on the wrong side of history about the right to wear a burqa won’t stop this American and her jaunty beret from returning again and again.
Agreed 🙂
French muslims come from countries or have their roots in countries where the burqa didn’t exist until very recently.
So, it’s really not about cultural or religious respect, but how the burqa is seen as a sign of radicalisation (wahabism, hello Saudi Arabia).
And France is not kind with religion, with any religion. French people suffered too much from religious wars.
Exactly Freebunny ! This fact seems to go totally over the head of most non french people posting here. The way it is wearing in France (with absolutly no roots in french muslim culture) is a political statement, not a way to honor Islam.
Sure, many french muslims and Imansare against the burqa cause it has nothing to do with their Islam and everything to do with the wahabism they fight.
In fact, the burqa is a sign of a wahabit influence, but no one will say it.
I’m just curious how going hard at those who wish to wear the burqa in order to quash their radicalisation actually stops them from being radicalised? Wouldn’t it just fan the flames more?
Very good question, indeed.
The radicalisation is there, burqa or not.
Freebunny – it’s similar here in the UK. News reports will refer to “radical preachers” but will never say “Wahhabist”. To my mind, it doesn’t help the non-Muslim public understanding of what radicalisation actually is, or where it comes from. In fact, I would say everything the authorities and the media do or say on this topic ends up making things worse, not better – and I mean in terms of both stopping rising radicalisation AND rising Islamophobia.
Glorious schadenfreude for days.
well, it certainly hasn’t be a good week for The Bradys.
Ugh if Giselle knew anything about the extreme secularism France practices, she would not have worn that burqa. As a French-American citizen, I could have told her that was a terrible idea. I don’t really agree with how France goes about imposing secularism, in general the country freaks out over the word “religion.” The burqa is such a polarizing symbol due to it being banned, not to mention it was incredibly culturally insensitive of her to wear it. She and her husband come across as incredibly dense people with all the press they are getting this week.
Quelle surprise! Elle est hypocite!
So complicated. Women have the freedom to be culturally oppressed if they chose? And others should respect their “choice”? Wish there was a male analog we could compare this to. Religion, sexuality, personal rights, culture and colonialist and nationalist mindsets all clashing headlong in this.
Why does she have a smallpox vaccination scar if she’s only 35 years old? They stopped giving the vaccine here in ’72. Do they still require it in Brazil?
It was plus 32 here the other day when I saw a man wearing shorts and flip flops. There was his wife a few paces behing with three small children. She was covered head to toe in a burqa. I cannot imagine how hot it must have been for her.
As for Giselle ….how do we know this was her?
Is there a religion where a woman is not considered a second class citizen?
I think the religion of some yoga practitioners. I read a post of a young yoga teacher about it. Not sure if it is true.
And im sure people will say it was her choice to dress that way…
Just to say that french muslims mostly come from countries where there’s no burqa and where burqa is seen as an oddity (Algeria, Marocco, Tunisia, Senegal….).
Burqa is not a religious sign (nothing in the Kuran) and culturally, it has nothing to do with western africa and maghreb where most french muslims have their roots.
I’d wear one to the grocery store at 7 am if I had one, not because it’s a “burqua” or hooded cape or a burlap sack over my head or a ghost costume with eye-holes. It’d be very convenient not to have to do any hair, makeup or wardrobe to be seen in public before breakfast when we’re out of milk or kids’ sandwich fixings. I’d love to have anonymity in my town where I am well-known & not have people notice or comment on what I’m wearing or if I look tired & then read about it in the paper.
Better yet, just tell me where to get a Cloak of Invisibility.
Not every Muslim woman who wears a burqua does so from depths of religious conviction & not everyone who wears one is Muslim. My doctor has to wear one when she’s in Dubai where her family’s business is HQ’d. Nobody in her family is Muslim.
“My doctor has to wear one when she’s in Dubai where her family’s business is HQ’d. Nobody in her family is Muslim.”As you just stated, taxi, your doctor has to abide by the country’s laws, whatever are her religious beliefs. In short: if you have to wear a burqa, you wear one. If you’re not allowed to, then you don’t. As simple as that!
Hahahahaha she deserves Tom hahahaha
Oh those two idiots….so glad they’re not my parents! Hahahahaha
Wait–so Tom Brady covered up deflating balls, and Gisele Bundchen covered up inflating breasts?
Okay, it’s all very sordid, but I do appreciate the symmetry of the gossip! 😀
Ha ha ha, very clever B and C!!!
(I’m sorry, Giselle, your IQ is showing! There are some things you can’t hide…)
she is so ignorant and tone-deaf to have done this. (i’m stating the obvious but it does tick me off so i’m venting…)
and seriously? the bare sandals? what is that, part of the “costume of what ‘desert people’ wear”? what a tool…
she probably thought the idea was an ingenious disguise, too… yeah, very crafty.
i’m glad she’s getting called out. i’m sick of obnoxious, hypocritical, insular celebrities like this. everyone can be dumb and make silly mistakes but stuff like this shows a complete lack of awareness about, like, the broader world and different cultures out there and gigantic cultural and political debates about some serious stuff that is going on all over the world and *that* is what makes me mad. she’s been a jet-setting bazillionaire for like two decades now, she has travelled, she should have her %ù% put out far enough from her *µù% to know better. perhaps she should read a newspaper next time she’s on one of her private flights or waiting in a plastic surgeon’s office.
I always felt that Gisele’s success hinged more on her chutzpah and not so much on traditional beauty. She’s certainly well-matched with her creep of a husband.
Is it a real burqua though? Or did she simply throw a scarf over head?
Why is she hiding? Does anyone actually care about her?
…
One of the articles said that while she went to great pains to disguise herself, the car was driven by her usual, easily-recognizable chauffeur.
WHO CARES? Sorry, but a religion doesn’t get to claim a garment—she can cover up in that if she wants IMO. She’s using it to cover herself, just as it was designed to do. She’s not using it as a halloween costume to make fun of it. And it’s not sacred; it’s part of a religion’s social and political culture. Religious customs are not necessarily sacred inherently. Also, the PC stuff is too much anymore. I am starting to want to stick up for random things that I don’t even agree with LOL just b/c the PC thought and action police are becoming disturbing and the anti thesis of what the whole point of tolerance was for to begin with. YMMV
I am so with you on this. it’s like people feel they have the right to police everyone. So sick of it!!!
Pff, that’s what she deserves for being an hypocrite and placing herself upon everything.
Some historical points :
The Koran simply says a woman should dress modestly. It is the male interpreters of Koranic law that say a woman must be covered head to toe in public.
Anciently (very anciently) all sacred objects were covered with a veil when taken in procession outside the confines of a building, there are numerous references to this practice in classical literature from the earlies cuniform writings of Ur and Babylon. The most well documented was the covering of the statue of Astet/Isis (the Egyptian goddess) with a veil during all public ceremonies.
In those most ancient times wives were considered sacred and the practice of married women wearing a veil in public arose (now taken to extremes). The wedding veil is perhaps the last remnant of this practice that still exists in the west.
She should wear it all the time because she’s dog ugly
Really never understood her appeal other than tall /skinny athletic clothes hanger
This woman sure brings out the hate, doesn’t she? I suppose everybody enjoys watching the ivory tower crumble a little.
The burqa is the bigger offense, though. That’s a form of voluntary religious piety for many and used as a method of oppression for others. Either way, it’s an offense to practicers to use it as a costume.
I’m just going to chime in and then go to work but I spent some time in the Middle -East and it wasn’t horrible but she shouldn’t have done that IF she did.
I never had to wear a burqa but one day near the end of my career , my CO and the First SGT called me into the office – I hadn’t even had coffee yet! 😉 – and told me I had been selected by name to go to Saudi Arabia.
There was another “guy” there too and I was briefed that when I left base -which was part of the job- that I was required to cover head to toe and I wasn’t allowed to drive and I would be required to walk behind MY troops and I was not to speak or make eye contact with any man and if I offended any Holy Man (psssh!) I could be hit with sticks which could result in an international incident and although I was the Contracting Officer in charge and had a warrant to contract and negotiate and PAY a Saudi contractor, they would not speak to me much less negotiate with me and then I dropped my retirement papers.
It’s better now – a little – thanks to some high-ranking female officers who served and put the boot down but it still sucks and that French comment kind of made me giggle and I also want to say that I’m so glad I was born here instead of there.
There’s a big difference between Muslims who have emigrated to Western countries (the minority) and Muslims living in non-secular non-democratic Muslim countries (the majority).
The difference is that Muslim women in Western countries have a choice whether to cover up or not, whether to practice their religion or not. In Muslim countries they do not have this choice.
Which is why people think most Muslim women are forced to cover up. That may be wrong for Muslims living in the West, but it isn’t wrong for Muslims living in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, etc.
I was forced to cover up there and I’m not a Muslim.
So yes, the veil is a sign of male dominance for most Muslim women who do not have the fortune to live in the UK, France, Canada, US, etc.