Josh Duggar had two accounts with Ashley Madison from 2013 to May 2015

JD1

Just when you think that the Duggars have hit rock bottom, there’s a whole other level of amazing scandal. You know how Josh Duggar is a child molester and utter pervert? You know how he molested four of his sisters and one underage girl not related to him? You know how all of that information came out when his wife of seven years was pregnant with their fourth child? You know how he worked for YEARS with the Family Research Council, one of the most anti-LGBTQ, anti-choice, pro “family values,” wingnut conservative groups in the country? Yeah, well that very same Josh Duggar also had TWO accounts at Ashley Madison, the site for married people who want to cheat on their spouses.

Ashley Madison’s databank was hacked last month and the hackers didn’t dump the data until Wednesday. Media outlets began swarming through the records and there are already some stark headlines, like Ashley Madison Hack: 10,000 Gov’t Officials’ Email Addresses on Leaked Ashley Madison List.” But this Josh Duggar thing is… terribly amazing. You can read Gawker’s post here. Some highlights:

In 2013, conservative reality TV star Josh Duggar—of TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting fame—was named the executive director of the Family Research Council, a conservative lobbying group in D.C. which seeks “to champion marriage and family as the foundation of civilization, the seedbed of virtue, and the wellspring of society.” During that time, he also maintained a paid account on Ashley Madison, a web site created for the express purpose of cheating on your spouse.

Someone using a credit card belonging to a Joshua J. Duggar, with a billing address that matches the home in Fayetteville, Arkansas owned by his grandmother Mary—a home that was consistently shown on their now-cancelled TV show, and in which Anna Duggar gave birth to her first child—paid a total of $986.76 for two different monthly Ashley Madison subscriptions from February of 2013 until May of 2015.

In July 2013, he seems to have started a second account that was linked to his home in Oxon Hill, Maryland, where he spent his time lobbying against causes like same-sex marriage. The birthday listed in the data for Duggar’s first account is February 3, 1988, one month off Duggar’s actual birthday of March 3, 1988. The birthday listed for the second account is March 2, 1988.

The two accounts overlap by a period of a few months. When he launched the second account, Duggar paid a $250 that appears to have gone toward the purchase of an “affair guarantee.” The second account, which was registered in July of 2014, was paid on a monthly basis until May of 2015.

[From Gawker]

Gawker also has Josh’s list of descriptions for what he was looking for in an affair, which included (but was not limited to): conventional sex, sensual massage, “someone I can teach,” sex talk, “sharing fantasies,” etc. He seemingly checked most of the boxes for his physical type, what he was looking for in a mistress, everything from petite to tall, long or short hair, girl next door to “naughty girl” (VOM), confident, aggressive and, surprisingly, he’s into natural boobs with no mention of being open to an affair with a lady with fake tatas.

So yeah… conservative family-values asshat gets caught with TWO accounts on a website designed to help married people cheat on their spouses. My guess is that if this was his only scandal, he would have been able to weather it because conservatives want to take the country back to the 1950s, when a man was expected to have sidepieces. But coming on the heels of the child molestation revelations… well, it’s difficult to see how Josh Duggar would ever be able to come back from this. I hope Anna divorces his lying, cheating, child molesting ass. I hope she takes him to the cleaners. I hope she gets full custody of their kids too.

Oh, and Josh probably had an undercover OKCupid account as well. Gross.

JD2

Photos courtesy of Duggars’ social media.

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.

344 Responses to “Josh Duggar had two accounts with Ashley Madison from 2013 to May 2015”

Comments are Closed

We close comments on older posts to fight comment spam.

  1. Zapp Brannigan says:

    Cue his wife coming out and apologizing for not keeping her husband “happy” at home.
    These people smh.

    • INeedANap says:

      yeah, I was going to say…she won’t leave him, those fundie nutbags will blame her for letting her man stray (and just writing that felt like an icepick to the temple).

      • PhenomenalWoman says:

        He just issued a statement to People. He admitted to cheating.

        Writes Josh in the statement: “I have been the biggest hypocrite ever. While espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. … I humbly ask for your forgiveness. Please pray for my precious wife Anna and our family during this time.”

      • Chichi says:

        Damn, this guy is a GENIUS at speaking to his constituency. “Porn made me do it” automatically shifts their focus on the evils of modern media. Its now a cautionary tale on how the Godly can be ensnared by the devious adult film industry. Well played bro! Mayhaps there is an Olivia Pope working your game for you?

      • Petrichor says:

        @Phenom, but no request for forgiveness from his wife? I feel sick for her.

    • ncboudicca says:

      Ugh, you’re so right and that’s so upsetting.

      Even her own parents will tell her that.

    • CG says:

      It’s always the lady’s fault, right? SMH.

      ETA: Where’s the butt-kissing People Mag damage-control story on this? I’m just waiting for some BS attempt at spin to hit their site …

      • Chichi says:

        Its definitely her fault. I mean she didnt avail her body as demanded, she let herself go (oh wait, she was pregnant), she wasnt sexually adventorous (so what if she is also taught that sexually curious women are Jezebels), we could go on. This is her fault but never worry, God wants to teach her “forgiveness”, “unconditional love” and most of all “submission”.

        This is also a lesson for the rest of us, heathens and believers alike. See what gay marriage did to this marriage? Your marriage or your neighbors marriage could be next. Act Now!

      • Betsy says:

        @chichi ha ha

      • Michelle says:

        Yep. Can’t wait for JimBob and Michelle’s statement excusing his behavior.

      • Lama Bean says:

        “My credit card was stolen and used for these filthy slanderous things”

        Anna likely knew about it. (That’s just my speculation)

        And I don’t know why, but I find this hilarious. Is it irony? Is it the audacity of him that I find so humorous? I don’t know. But I’m ROFL.

    • Snazzy says:

      OMG I never thought of that but now that you’ve said it I could totally see that happening.
      God I hate these people

      • Sabrine says:

        Since JimBob and Michelle are not on t.v. anymore, they probably won’t even bother making a statement. They’ve got nothing to defend anymore. Their t.v. show is gone so there’s nothing in it for them in regards to defending their creepy son.

    • Rice says:

      That’s the most likely damage control (HA!) strategy they’ll use. Although I wouldn’t rule out:

      1. I apologise for my actions and have sought counselling for such.
      2. It wasn’t me. It was the one-armed man (No offence to one-armed men).
      3. I was set up/framed by the lesbian media agenda.

      • Aussie girl says:

        Lol @ RICE, those lesbians with their agendas are sneaky, I can just see them sitting at head quarters planning this attack for months😉

      • H says:

        Yes, we lesbians sit around trying to sign up semi-famous d-bags for Ashley Madison accounts. Excuse me, I have to go and put Donald Trump and Tom Cruise on that sign-up list. Work, work, work…it never ends!

      • BearcatLawyer says:

        H, I admire the lesbian work ethic. Donald Trump should be proud of you! 😉

      • Jorts says:

        LOL! Yep sounds about right.

      • kcarp says:

        Speaking of the lesbian agenda……………Did they have a box for him to check that is interested in threesomes?

      • stinky says:

        don’t forget – “it was part of God’s plan”!

      • littlestar says:

        The damn lesbians and their agendas!!!!!!! Always wanting to screw the Duggars over!!

        Virgilia told me about this story yesterday and I laughed so hard over it….. This is just sweet sweet revenge for his victims, and they didn’t even have to do any work for it, he did it all himself :D.

      • Isa says:

        Little star- where has she been? I haven’t seen her comment around here lately.

      • @Rice
        http://i.imgur.com/Qnenadq.jpg

        http://i.imgur.com/jxeNeQi.jpg

        http://i.imgur.com/8SgoW0E.jpg

        @Isa
        I’ve been slacking…..reading, but slacking. One of my hilarious FB friends put this link up yesterday afternoon. I about died laughing. I have to copy and paste what she wrote:
        “Oh, my. And just when the Ma and Pa Duggar are trying to pitch a new reality show in which they “counsel” sex abuse victims in the wake of revelations that Josh diddled his own sisters. I guess now they can expand that to counseling jilted spouses now that Josh was looking to diddle ladies other than the one he was married to.”

        @littlestar
        I feel so badly for Anna. She’s not going to leave him. Ever. He’ll have to throw her out. I hope she has some brothers that actually care about HER and not appearances. I’m also wondering about what the female Duggar’s (I still don’t know their names, lol) husbands think. They can’t be okay with this. The fact that their wives were molested by their brothers (and I don’t believe it was ever spoken of, or if it was, it was downplayed as him accidentally seeing one of his sisters naked/partially undressed, and THAT’S why their rooms are on the other side of the house, etc)……how do you reconcile that to what you have been taught. I just hope that they get out, and that their lives won’t remain tied up to Duggar, LLC.

      • littlestar says:

        I feel badly for Anna and her children too. I think Jill’s husband Derrick truly cares for her – I think that’s why they went to South America, to escape essentially (although really, they should have just moved across America to a new home and jobs, not spread their terrible cult through “missionary work”). As for Jessa’s husband, he is a piece of work just like Jessa is.

      • @littlestar
        Was he the one that ran over a cat? Or acted like he was going to? I didn’t know Jessa was a brat too, though.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      Yes, she didn’t follow her mother-in-law’s advice to “make herself available” whenever he wanted. To quote Snazzy, God, I hate these people.

      • whipmyhair says:

        Well she has to wait a few weeks after popping a human being out of her vag!na. What is a man to do? Abstain for weeks!!!

        She obviously failed as a wife.

        (Seriously though, it must really suck for her atm)

    • Wren says:

      Poor, poor Anna. Sadly, I think you hit the nail on the head here. It will somehow be Anna’s fault for not being a good enough wife and well as the “temptresses” online that made Josh do this.

      The worst part? I bet anything that’s what BOTH of them believe, Anna too. She’ll blame herself and so will everyone else in their f*cked up cult.

    • SNAP says:

      You know, i don’t condone affairs but really at least that Ashley Madison site is supposed to be for CONSENTING and willing ADULTS. If i caught my SO cheating on me it better be with another consenting grown up. Yes it feels like a stab to the heart (been there done that) but hey, who am i to force a relationship with someone who doesn’t want or isn’t satisfied with me? No biggie, just wish he had broken up with me instead of leading me on and having side pieces…it still would be easier to move on with things than trying to understand an adult who purposely preys on underage children.
      This Duggar family is a Pandora’s box of disgusting surprises…an example of why being a self righteous bigot is never a good thing. They should had known better they’d be measured with the same rod they measure others.

    • feebee says:

      Dammit, you’re right…… way to kill the buzz.

    • Jessiebes says:

      Yep.

    • Colleen says:

      Ugh, I hope not.

  2. Jess says:

    Of course he did!! I hope Anna leaves him, there’s no denying this and she needs to go!

    • Josephine says:

      Is she even allowed to leave him in that cult? Is that permitted? It doesn’t seem like it would be. I know a woman from a similar religion who was threatened incessantly by the church elders when she tried to leave her husband. They called and came to her house constantly, and threatened to testify against her so that she would lose the kids. Plus, does the wife even have a means to support herself? Does she have any education at all? It doesn’t seem like he’s going to provide child support.

      • Lucy2 says:

        Sadly I doubt she can. I wish this would make her snap, take her kids, and run for the hills, but she won’t.

      • Samtha says:

        I don’t know about their particular branch of Christianity, but the only Biblical reason for divorce is infidelity, so technically she could divorce him without sinning. As to what her family and the Duggars believe…who knows.

      • Chichi says:

        @Samtha The verse in which Jesus allows divorce for adultery also includes a caveat that the other party must be resistant to change. If he is contrite you are obligated to forgive him, and in another verse it says that you must be willing to forgive trespass to infinity. Oh and also, Jesus says that the divorcee, even if the conditions of her divorce fit his criteria, may not remarry as long as her husbabnd lives. That would constitute adultery, apparently. Thats what the text says butost denominations take looser interpratations, but their brand will no doubt take literal interpratations.

        So even if she can leave him under this verse, she can not remarry as long as he lives and remain in good standing with the only community she knows.

      • Crumpet says:

        That’s not exactly what it says Chichi.

        But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32

        The caveat is “except on the ground of sexual immorality”

      • Chichi says:

        Thanks Crumpet. I’m rusty on scripture having broken up with religion a decade ago. I’m sure my fundamentalist “God hates divorce” Church required wives to forgive their cheating, abusive husbands if they were remorseful. Perhaps it was just Church tradition.Thats the crap they drummed into our tyen minds, who knows what Anna grew up hearing.

      • Isabelle says:

        Divorce really isn’t mentioned a lot in scripture (can’t remarry unless that person dies), you can divorce in eyes of god if that person has cheated on you. What is mentioned a LOT & is in the 10 commandments committing adultery is very big no no in new & old testament. God hates it in the Bible & one of the “top” sins thats repeatedly called out by Jesus. Divorce aside Josh has done something scripture heavily denounces.

      • Samtha says:

        Chichi, I was raised in a fundamentalist church–very strict and conservative. That scripture was interpreted as you are fine to remarry after divorcing because of “sexual immorality.” You can leave your spouse for other reasons, you just can’t divorce them. (In other words, you can separate from them and live elsewhere, you just can’t remarry.)

        There is a loophole with that, though–if your spouse divorces you and remarries, they’re technically committing adultery, which leaves you free to move on with your life.

    • Talie says:

      If only she had a mind of her own. At this point, she’s probably pregnant again.

      • Sabrine says:

        Anna has no mind of her own having been born into this cult. Her job is to run the household and produce a baby every year. She can’t leave him, at least not easily, not with four children under the age of five and probably another one on the way. She is married to a cheating pervert but in her world, there are few options.

    • zinjojo says:

      I doubt she can leave; she’ll have pressure from all around her (including her own parents) to stay. And she’s completely financially dependent on him — he obviously wasn’t concerned she’d see the charges on a CC statement because he controls all of their finances.

      But, I so wish she’d leave, write a tell-all book and figure out her own life on her own terms.

      • Portland Jan says:

        Anna is not COMPLETELY lacking in resources. She has 3 siblings who ditched this cult years ago. If worst comes to worst, she should consider swallowing her pride and appeal to one or more of them for help.

    • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

      She’s the mother of small children, yet she stayed with Josh when she found out he was a child molester and some of his victims were his own sisters! I doubt she’s going to leave him because he’s a cheater.

      This cult completely brainwashes the females, so she’ll probably think it’s all her fault for not being the wife he needs.

      However, I hope the AM scandal will torpedo any plans the Touching Little Children has for future Duggar shows. These people should be denounced and shunned, not celebrated and given airtime.

  3. 5thHouse says:

    Big surprise. NOT!!!! Disgusting bastard.

  4. Betti says:

    Brilliant – wonder how they are going to spin this one, it can’t be denied! Hopefully Anna leaves him and takes him to the cleaners in the divorce. This family has to just go away now – their precious first born son has ruined them, which just goes to show how ‘great’ parents Michelle and Jim Bob are.

    You gotta wonder who else has/had an account? The hackers have said that most of the female accounts where fake and most registered/paying users were men. They may not have actually cheated but they wanted to. They’ve only just begun to see the epic fall out.

    Karma, LOVE you!!!! *hugs and kisses*

    • Goats on the Roof says:

      Why would Anna leave him now? Her situation hasn’t changed. She is still a poor, uneducated woman with no resources of her own to speak of. Her family is still involved in the same cult as the Duggars. Don’t forget, Anna’s father knew Josh molested four of his sisters, and he sent his daughter off to make babies with him anyway. Anna won’t get any support from that bunch even if she did pluck up the courage to leave. More likely, she’ll say it’s her fault because she wasn’t alluring enough or she lost her figure or Satan, but she won’t blame Josh.

      • greenmonster says:

        I agree. Anna won’t leave him. People around her will tell her “a man has needs. You were pregnant or just had a baby. It’s ok what he did because MAN. now go to the kitchen and fix him some dinner.”

      • astrobiologiste says:

        I read “lost her figure to Satan”. He he he.

    • Josephine says:

      He’s going to say that he never followed through, just fantasized about it.

      • Kaiser says:

        He paid the extra $250 for an “affair guarantee” though.

      • Snazzy says:

        Maybe he’ll say he wanted to meet people to be able to teach them good values and skew them from the path of sin. Some crap like that

      • Goats on the Roof says:

        ^^What Kaiser said. The Duggars are notoriously cheap. He wouldn’t have put cash down if he didn’t expect a return.

      • DiamondGirl says:

        You can have fantasies for free, lol. He can’t explain this away.

      • Kiddo says:

        Stolen credit card/ identity theft?

      • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

        Let’s talk about that “guarantee.” Is this just a cover for prostitution?

      • greenmonster says:

        I’m on my phone and don’t know if my reply ends up in the right position… :/

        @GNAT that’s a good one! How can you guarantee a hook-up/affair? Prostitution is the answer. Well that would be the cherry on top of this ice cream sundae: a Duggar not only cheating, but being involved with prostitution.

        Yip, biggest threat to families: gay marriage, feminists and planned parenthood.

      • Kiddo says:

        Same thought, GoodNamesAllTaken.

      • Chichi says:

        @Josephine “He who lusts after another has committed adultery in his heart” ~ somewhere in the Bible

        So fantasizing=sin; banging=sin Even if he merely signed up and didnt actually meet somebody, per his own rules, his spiritual goose is cooked

      • Snazzy says:

        Wow GNAT & KIddo – you are so right! What’s up with that guarantee? Do they have people on staff just in case?

      • Wren says:

        I read that most of the female profiles on AM are fake (site is 90-95% horny dudes), so the “guarantee” does rather sound like they utilize an escort service, at best. Or they’d be giving a looooot of money back.

      • Sonya says:

        @chichi didn’t you know his rules only apply to the sinners! He doesn’t have to worry about them…

      • zinjojo says:

        Yes, with the guarantee it’s a front for prostitution. You can even break down Ashley Madison’s business model with the fee. Out of the $250, how much was a prostitute paid? Maybe $100? So AM, clears $150 of profit. That’s not a bad margin.

      • Colleen says:

        @GNAT, yes, let’s! What exactly is the guarantee? I suppose I could look it up.

        Ah, so he would have had to put some effort into finding some strange. People won’t pay up for nothing. Ugh.

        @Kaiser: VOM is right.

      • noway says:

        GNAT my guess is similar to other dating sites with dates, AM “guarantees” if some crazy doesn’t have an affair with the ultimate crazy Duggar he gets his money back. Not really prostitution, but still gross. This site always seemed to me like affairs for dummies. Seems like if you were trying to keep an affair secret you wouldn’t want a computer-credit card readily available trail. Not that anyone should do it at all, but it just seems so planned out that I don’t think I could ever forgive my SO for that kind of betrayal.

        Also, two memberships, because one isn’t good enough. Maybe he should have 19 to match his family? Creep.

    • cannibell says:

      Nah. He’s going to call it “opposition research.” {grimaces}

    • wrinkled says:

      The guarantee is a scam. The user must adhere to a set of requirements (that cost $ such as messaging or gifts) before AM returns their fees. AM is not providing a warm body guarantee just a money back one.

  5. Krista says:

    The schadenfreude is strong with this one.

    • DD says:

      Deliciously so!

    • Wren says:

      I admit, I laughed when I read about this. Why is it the people who shriek the loudest about family values have the most skeletons to hide? Seriously, it seems like every time someone (or in this case a family of someones) becomes prominent for essentially being a crazed Christian there’s something awful they’ve done (or are doing) that goes against pretty much everything they loudly spout off and judge others over. I can think of many, many “heathens” that have lived far more by actual Christian values then these idiots.

      • SNAP says:

        You nailed it, Wren! I agree with you 1000% It seems the more self righteous and condemning ones have the most to hide.

      • Bella says:

        By this measure, just imagine what Kirk Cameron is hiding?

      • noway says:

        Yes, I guess it is human nature, and not the good part. Just like celebrities whose marriages are failing scream how happy they are and pack on the PDA, and those that scream success are really failing miserably. That is why I always look at these stories when someone is so intent on portraying a certain image and think what is really going on there.

      • Wren says:

        Bella, I’m always highly suspicious of anyone who gets loud and preachy about their beliefs (or how happy they are, or how awesome their marriage is, etc). If it’s so awesome why do you need to shove it down my throat? It’s not me you’re trying to convince here………..

    • zinjojo says:

      It really is. It would only have been better if it had been Jim Bob with an Ashley Madison account.

    • BooBooLaRue says:

      Chuckle

    • I Choose Me says:

      Yes! And I am here for it. It’s always, always the most self-righteous idiots who are usually up to no good.

  6. Tate says:

    Sadly Anna is probably not going to divorce him. She will be told to be a good Christian and forgive her husband. Sad stuff.

    • zimmer says:

      Not only that, they will probably push her to get pregnant again faster to get her focused on something else, but it won’t change their other approach which will be that she hasn’t been taking care of her husband’s needs well enough which is why he would feel the need to cheat at all.

      I truly hope she decides to leave, but she’d need support from her family and I wonder if they’d be willing to give it as they are all deep in the cult.

    • Heat says:

      Anna won’t have to forgive Josh for anything…it isn’t his fault, after all. Poor Josh was just going down the wrong path and it was all Anna’s fault. If she’d been the kind of wife he deserves, this never would have happened in the first place.
      Josh just has to go and do manual labor with some other adulterers and it’ll be just fine.

      Ugh…these people…gag me!

  7. Mindless Contemplations says:

    Yeah this family is a bunch of twisted scumbags. Family values are optional I guess when they aren’t in front of the camera.

  8. Bluebell says:

    This isn’t newsworthy. Going on a site like that isn’t illegal. He has four children including one that’s a newborn. To avoid causing the family (ie the children) any more pain, I don’t think this should be reported.

    • Zapp Brannigan says:

      It speaks to his character,as a public figure he has advocated for other people to not have the same rights (ie: marriage) he enjoys, so he can suck it!

      Also to avoid causing pain to minors they should not be in the same home as this child touching pervert.

      • Chichi says:

        Well, in his defense, he did warn us that gay marriage would undermine the institution. Now look! Thanks Gay Marriage.

    • Esmom says:

      So if it’s not illegal it’s ok? Please. As for causing his family pain, that’s on him, not the media, lol. He should have thought of that before signing up with AM.

    • Jag says:

      This is newsworthy because he fought very hard to not let gay people marry. The organization he was part of also touted “family values” like crazy, and he wasn’t showing family values by cheating on his wife.

      He paid extra money to guarantee that he’d have an affair within 3 months.

      Everyone needs to know about this. I’m sorry that the children have such a louse for a father, but they will be able to decide for themselves whether to break off contact or not.

      I truly hope that his wife leaves him and the cult, but won’t hold my breath. I feel so bad for those children; hopefully, they can get away when they’re older.

      • Pamela says:

        And honestly, THIS news is really not going to be a blip on the radar if his kids ever hear about all his shenanigans. The guy molested his own baby sisters. I don’t think the fact that he was looking to cheat on their mom will really be the worst of it.

    • bellenola says:

      While I don’t necessarily agree with the hack, I can’t bring myself to disagree with exposing hypocrites.

    • Goats on the Roof says:

      This asshat has made an actual living of telling the world that same sex relationships are ruining America and destroying family values, all while hiding that he molested his sisters and paid for extramarital affairs. This NEEDS to be reported.

    • Starrywonder says:

      Yeah it is.

      First it shows what a freaking hypocrite he is and all of his I love my wife and family act was and is crap.

      Second this man molested children. Who knows what he was asking these women to do when he slept with them. He apparently had an affair guarantee included on his account t so even if a woman showed up and was like nope he still got somethibg in return.

      I also hope TLC decides to cancel this upcoming special. No one wants the Duggars.

    • DD says:

      Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Ever heard of “he who lives in glass houses?” He deserves it! For all the shaming of others that he’s done, no, it should not be swept under the rug!

    • Lilacflowers says:

      The person who caused that family pain is Josh Duggar and his wandering perversions and the pathetic excuses for parents who taught him that his behavior was acceptable.

      • Antonym says:

        ^^^This.

        Besides, when you make your living judging the bedroom behaviors of others you can’t believably call ‘privacy’ for your own. His judgment of others opened him up to this (more so than the other hacking victims), and his behavior is shameful (unlike those he chose to judge).

    • Ronda says:

      alright but then what are you doing on this site? why are you even reading gossip?

      • Izzy says:

        Unless Bluebell is trying to do damage control for the Duggars…?

        Seriously, aside from the fact that this is a gossip site, the level of hypocrisy is astounding with this family. They sold themselves as good wholesome Christians and used their fame to peddle hate disguised as religious values. Meanwhile they obstructed justice when their son molested little girls, got away with it, and raised him into the lyin, CHEATING POS he is today.

        So yeah, lying liars gonna lie. But this family sought the spotlight. They should’ve been prepared for the scrutiny that comes with it.

    • Tate says:

      Oh yes, it is newsworthy.

      • Bluebell says:

        If I went onto a site like that for extracurricular activity (I’m not married nor even in a relationship), I would be pretty pissed off if the website was hacked and my subscription publicised. Imagine if marriages broke down over this (I’m talking generally, not specifically about Josh and Anna….I feel sorry for Anna btw).

        I know it’s immoral to have affairs but it’s a personal decision everyone makes for themselves and their private lives should not IMO be publicised.

      • Izzy says:

        Bluebell, this family willingly put themselves into the public spotlight. If they weren’t prepared for the scrutiny that comes with it, too bad. And if they had bothered to learn more about the internet, they would have known that there is no such thing as a guarantee of data safety.

        Even the Pentagon has been hacked. Every digital fortress has a weakness that can be exploited. Especially if it is connected to the web.

      • Zip says:

        If you don’t want you relationship to go to the shitter then DON’T CHEAT, no matter if just with the neighbour or on some dating website. I’d rather have the cheating BF or spouse exposed than waste my life on an unfaithful asshole.

      • Msmlnp says:

        I see what you are saying Bluebel, though don’t agree with it. I am married and if my husband was trolling AM and our marriage broke up because of it, then that’s the price that is paid for those actions.

        slap me with the truth, don’t kiss me with a lie.

      • doofus says:

        so, just like the molestation, it’s not the ACT ITSELF that was bad, it was the exposing of it that caused all the problems?!

        how about NOT molesting kids and NOT signing up to cheat on your wife? that might avoid causing your family pain, huh?

        these people’s lives ARE NOT PRIVATE! they live their lives in the public eye, on TV, scamming money from the rubes who believe the image they put out of the perfect “Christian” family.

        expose them for the lying hypocrites that they are.

      • Bluebell says:

        Doofus your comment was really bad. I never even mentioned the molestation scandal. I’m talking solely about this ‘ extramarital affair’ scandal (ie that Josh was enrolled on a website for extramarital affairs).

        Don’t equate me criticising the hack, and how it’s been reported and its users exposed, with me being an advocate for covering up child abuse. The two are completely different.

      • Jorts says:

        I agree with Doofus.

      • Bluebell says:

        Jorts I think you’re being unfair also. Obviously the act is the issue as well but please don’t bring the child molestation into it. I was focusing squarely on this website that got hacked (as that is what this article is about). As for being public figures, if it was Jim Bob and Michelle, you might have a point. But I’m not sure about how much choice Josh had about his parents agreeing to do a reality show. Obviously he and the rest of his siblings would be featured and may have been pressured into doing it.

        At the end of the day my priority is the welfare of their children and to a lesser extent, Anna. I don’t think those kids growing up being able to read about their dad being enrolled on a website is going to help them any. It should never have been exposed and could cause innocent people (the children and Anna) a lot of pain.

      • doofus says:

        I’m not saying you approve of child molestation, bluebell, and that was pretty clear in my response. I was equating what the Duggars have said about the media exposing the molestation to what YOU said about the media exposing the affair.

        that is, your implication it’s not the affair that was the problem for his marriage, it was the hackers and the evil media for telling everyone about it. which is EXACTLY the defense that the Duggars used about the child molestation.

        and your claim that it’s not “newsworthy” and that their lives are “private”. when you go on TV to do a reality show about your life, it is no longer “private”. you cannot seek out the spotlight for your own agenda and then cry “PRIVACY!” when the spotlight shows the seedier side of it. to add, if your agenda is speaking out on “family values” and hate speech against anyone who isn’t a hetero Christian, then your lack of following your own moral rules is absolutely newsworthy.

      • Starrywonder says:

        @bluebell what Doofus said.

      • Wren says:

        Um, this man and his family has preached family values, spewed bigotry and hate against gay people, held themselves up as a “gold standard”, and gotten paid oodles of money to do so. Part of the whole family values thing is fidelity. The fact that Josh is a flaming hypocrite who has essentially lied to the public is indeed newsworthy. If he was just some average dude nobody had heard of, then no, it would not be newsworthy, but it is.

        It’s immoral but the fact that he and his family preach morality and how they are so right about everything and their way is the Way makes it newsworthy. Surprise! Even they don’t follow their own rules!

        At the end of the day, if you don’t get it we can’t explain it to you.

      • Jorts says:

        @Bluebell-Yeah I still agree with Doofus 100%.

      • doofus says:

        and I love JORTS!

        (your avatar KILLS me every time I see it!)

      • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

        @Bluebell

        Josh Duggar is a public figure, so yeah, this is newsworthy. If you’re really concerned about his kids, worry about the fact that he’s a child molester who abused his own sisters, so how safe are his daughters under the same roof as him?

        I’m sorry, but I have zero sympathy for these cheaters. Aside from the fact they betrayed their spouses in the worst way, they should realize that ANYTHING done over a network — whether a cell phone conversation, an email or a subscription to an online service — is never going to be totally secure.

        I may not like it but the fact is that we live in an age where privacy no longer exists; that’s just a fact of life.

        As for Josh Duggar, he spends his days judging people, paid to push his narrow-minded views onto others. He and his ilk make me sick, and I’m thrilled that he’s been exposed for the hypocritical monster that he is.

    • Macey says:

      This ABSOLUTELY should have been reported if for no other reason than to show what a hypocritical phony this family is. These are the same people who try to shove their archaic fake beliefs down everyone’s throat.

      The only thing that would have made this story even more delicious is if they would have found creepy Jim Bob and Mike Huckabee’s account on there.

    • Rice says:

      Sorry, Bluebell, but I disagree. You said it yourself. He has four children with a devoted wife. He has been taught to spread hate against anyone who doesn’t fit the Duggar agenda/profile. Above all, he has been taught to preach about good morals and values. He belongs to a movement that’s very much into things like chaperon dating and side-hugs. To me, and a lot of others, he believes that he is “better” than most. So getting caught in a cyber affair makes him a hypocrite, liar and cheater.

    • Lucy2 says:

      If he were simply living his life and minding his own business, I would agree with you that we should do the same. However, this man, and his family, made it their purpose in life to take away the rights of others, accuse people “different” from them of terrible things, and built a career in “family values” by telling everyone else they were doing it wrong. They chose to be public figures, and he has now been exposed as an extreme hypocrite. It absolutely should be newsworthy.

    • greenmonster says:

      @bluebell as others have said before: HE is the one causing pain. And if his marriage would fail over this, it still would be on him and not the media reporting about his disgusting behavior.
      If someone who is married or in a relationship joins a side like AM looking for hookups and getting exposed it is on THEM. The heartbreak, the pain, the broken marriage/relationship – all caused by the one cheating. We probably all feel sorry for Anna, but we shouldn’t blame media for exposing Josh for what he is: a creepy, child molesting, cheating, hypocritical Homophob.

    • veronica says:

      You decide to become a public figure, which he did, you lose a big chunk of your privacy. I have no sympathy for this loser. You don’t want all of your skeletons coming out of the closet, do not put yourself in the public eye and for the love of Jeebus, do not go into politics. You are really asking for it at that point. And seriously, if you want to go trolling for strange, don’t use your actual name, actual address or actual credit card. Amateur.

    • NUTBALLS says:

      Just look at how many articles are on this and tell me it’s not newsworthy.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      What? Please tell me I misunderstand you. These hypocritical, lying, misogynist scum go on TV and spout their hateful nonsense about how a woman should be subservient to her man, how Christian they are, how they represent family values and traditional marriage, how morally superior they are to people who aren’t members of their cult, how same sex marriage is a sin, how it’s God’s plan that they take in boatloads of money for spewing hatred and hypocrisy and all the while they are covering up the filthy stench from their own dirty little secrets… But you think this shouldn’t be reported because they’ve been “hurt enough?”

      And yes, I imagine you would be “pretty pissed” if you were a public figure pretending to be the paragon of virtue and you were exposed for a big liar and fraud. But that would have been your own fault, now wouldn’t it?

      I feel a lot sorrier for these girls because they are trapped in a cult that treats them like breed animals than I do because the cult is being exposed for its true sickness. Maybe they will wake up and leave.

      • frisbee says:

        Cheering at the back, well said!

      • Christin says:

        I truly believe this is another example of things done in darkness being brought to the light. (Sorry I don’t know the verse word for word, but that is the gist of it.)

        Even though I doubt it will happen, I hope the women will finally see the light.

      • Wren says:

        So, so this. If you’re going to hold yourself up as a paragon of virtue and make a bunch of money selling yourself thus, maybe actually BE a paragon of virtue. Nobody likes being lied to, and it really hurts your cause if you’re a raging hypocrite.

        So in a way, GOOD. Maybe this will help undermine the stupid “family values” movement that is not about real family values at all. I don’t remember my parents teaching me to hate others, how it’s okay to hurt people that aren’t like you, or how it’s okay for me to break the rules but everyone else has to follow them.

      • Liberty says:

        Bravo, GNAT. As always, beautifully stated.

        And I’m with doofus, Izzy, Wren etc above. This jerk happily used his reality TV fame to grab a career spewing hatred and bigotry. He is in photographs mugging for the camera. He molested his sisters, one as young as five. and a young family friend. He’s from a family that treats women like dirt, and makes their rent by talking about values while excusing gross behavior behind the scenes. This exposure of the AM thing should be seen, at the very least, as a chance for his poor wife to know the truth, to protect her own health, if he did enjoy a “guaranteed” hook-up with strange. She probably has very little say in her own life, due to the rules of their cult, but she shouldn’t be left unarmed with facts that can affect her health.

        Personally I am cheering Karma here.

    • GrnMtGirl says:

      I have so much empathy for all of the families that are being affected by this hack, but I can’t help believe that Karma is catching up with those dirty rotten cheats. Simply put: if you don’t want to get caught with your pants down, then don’t join a site specifically designed to help married people hook up with others for casual sex. That said, this is absolutely news-worthy. If you are going to behave like an ultra conservative right-wing nut-job that finds it necessary to tell everyone else how to live their lives, then you should be walking the talk. He was exposed as a hypocrite, a liar, a cheater, and a regular low-life, judgmental a$$. When you tell people they are full of the devil and evil, then you should be the example of one who is not, or shut up & get off my TV. Think of all the other men who were exposed last night… the only ones who are being put in the spotlight are those who put themselves there for one reason or another, such as telling the rest of us how to live our lives.

      As far as Anna goes, the poor girl had no chance to become the kind of lover he was looking for. He wanted someone adventurous. Well, if you marry a woman who has been locked in a closet for most of her life, and told to fight all the natural urges she might feel, then you are not going to have a sexually adventurous wife. Hey. How about we not make natural sexual awakenings be repressed. How about we not hide the other sex from each other. How about we teach both our young men and women about healthy sexuality. How about we not suppress young people, and teach them that their thoughts are of the devil. Maybe if young Josh had been exposed to real world human behavior, he wouldn’t have been so damned curious that he would molest those younger than him, or feel the need to explore the “dark” side of human sexuality and cheat on his wife. Those poor young children, who are raised in such an oppressive environment… they have no chance at learning how to process their feelings with any amount of normalcy. It is sad.

    • senna says:

      It’s because he’s spoken out so strongly against “immorality” of exactly this sort that his Ashley Madison membership exposes him as a hypocrite. Because of past opinions, this is entirely newsworthy. If this were someone who had never maintained a public facade of monogamy and Christian values, no, it wouldn’t be newsworthy. I guess it turns out that if you are a scumbag with a poor sense of personal responsibility and a belief you are above the rules, all the family-values-focused christianity in the world won’t stop you from molesting children and having affairs.

    • HK9 says:

      That pain would have been avoided if papa kept his penis at home. We are not responsible for what happens as a result of his conscious douchbaggery.

    • Colleen says:

      I disagree. This is very newsworthy, especially considering his involvement in politics and agendas that could possibly affect everyone, even you. Reporting his actions is not bringing harm to his wife and children – HE BROUGHT THIS PAIN TO HIS FAMILY, Period.

    • meh says:

      This stuff about him going public is the best thing that could possibly happen to those children. When they are old enough to find the info and exercise critical thinking skills (if those aren’t completely beaten out of them) they will have evidence of the kind of hypocritical, gas lighting abuser ther father is, and a chance at making sense of the hell they will surely experience growing up with him.

    • Sparkly says:

      He MADE A LIVING off preaching “the sanctity of marriage” and blaming LBGT people for the VERY things he has done (pedophilia, dishonoring marriage, ‘perverted’ sexual practices, etc.). He absolutely deserves to be called out- heavily publicized and mocked widely.

      I’d help all of the girls & women in their cult escape if I could. Privately, hiding it all from the public (seriously, contact me if you need it, ladies, as I’m very close to the Arkansas border!).

      But this? This deserves to be shouted from the rooftops. Maybe one or two of their clueless backers will stop a moment and think, “Hey, maybe this douchebag doesn’t actually speak for God…”

  9. NewWester says:

    Lets see how Jim Bob and Michelle explain their son’s actions this time? Also how will his wife react to this news?

    Off topic: Any bets on when it will come out that Josh also has profiles on Grindr and other gay hookup sites?

    • Goats on the Roof says:

      The standard, “Josh was led astray by Satan, but has now repented unto the Lord” oughta do it, don’t you think?

      The wife will blame herself or Ashley Madison or the other women, but it won’t be Josh’s fault. He was tempted and couldn’t resist. He is only a man with natural man desires, after all.

      • Liberty says:

        Oh yes! Oh and plus, it will be his ministry to research and help the fallen ladies as Lilacflowers hilariously commented last night on the other Duggars thread.

      • Aussie girl says:

        I can’t help but wonder if all this sexual repression ( sex is for procreation)plays a massive part. It’s nature verses nurture I suppose.

      • Wren says:

        Aussie, I would think that IS the reason, full stop. People who have a healthy attitude towards sex and relationships don’t need “outlets” for their urges, and certainly not secret ones. Repressing a natural, healthy urge causes it to flare up in unwanted, unexpected ways. Try forcing a kid to sit still for long stretches of time and see what kind of weird crap they start doing. Let them run around like they’re supposed to and that weird behavior disappears. Simplistic analogy but same idea.

    • maura says:

      My bets:

      Excuse no. 1: It wasn’t him, his identity was stolen (boring but it *could* happen, not that anyone would buy it)

      Excuse no. 2: He did this to expose how awful the internet was and how easily women are drawn into affairs when they aren’t living a good christian life blah blah satan blah.

      It will NEVER be his fault…

      On another note, I’d be so disappointed if I logged on there and HE was what they were offering for an affair. I mean really?? (not that I would be on there but still).

  10. Dewdrop says:

    So glad that the only thing that can ruin the sanctity of marriage is gay marriage – not an affair. A paid for affair at that! Run, Anna. Run.

    This is just the tip of the amazing scandal iceberg that has been gifted upon us from the hack.

  11. celine says:

    I love it! Nothing like the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

    • BeBeA says:

      Lol yes, this woke me right up! I can’t wait for the lame apology. … I have let so many people down…blah blah blah.

    • tracking says:

      +1

    • frisbee says:

      I just takes your breath away doesn’t it? It’s almost laughable – if it wasn’t for his poor brainwashed wife and helpless victims that is.

    • BearcatLawyer says:

      I thought the EXACT same thing, celine! Stick a fork in them…the Duggars are DONE.

      • Saywhatwhen says:

        Some days I open the internet and it’s like someone is writing the most outlandish and unbelievable script and the real people on my t.v. are volunteering to act it out. From the Palins to the Duggars. You can’t make this ish up. This whole nasty, hypocritical family….how do you get them away from the rest of us? How do you shut them up? Please let them be done. Let them go to the hell they conscript the rest of us to.

    • Izzy says:

      This comment made me laugh my butt off.

    • WinnieCoopersMom says:

      I read that in Blair Waldorf’s voice. Perfect.

  12. Aussie girl says:

    Well my aunt giddy!!! Let’s watch him try get out of this one and I completely believe this was all him.

  13. TarheelPixie says:

    Poor Anna. You know Josh has told her they simply need to pray this away. Oh, and the media has it out for him….right. Sure, the media made him the hypocritical douche he is…not his pervy actions. A pedo and a cheater, how nice. Run, Anna, run! Pray you never have to see his smug face again.

  14. lowercaselois says:

    Is divorce allowed in their religious cult and will Anna just give excuses for him and turn the other cheek?

    • Starrywonder says:

      I don’t think so. If anything I hope this stops the pro Duggar madness going on. Waiting for Huckabee and his stupid self to say something about forgive the sinner and not the sin. Blech.

    • Goats on the Roof says:

      The three married Duggar kids entered what’s called a covenant marriage. It makes divorce much more difficult, but still possible. Adultery is one of the few grounds for divorce. But I doubt the family would allow them to separate for any reason.

  15. mia girl says:

    Josh, what was that you were saying about the sanctity of marriage?

  16. Norman Bates' Mother says:

    I’m afraid she will stay with him no matter what. She’s a mother of four little children and she decided to stay with him, knowing he is a child molester. Cheating with an adult woman is barely a misconduct in comparison. He will get away with it because he’s a man and in their world – he has a right to cheat on his wife, but his wife doesn’t even have a right to wear shorts or tank-tops, because that would make her an evil seductress or whatever they call it.

    • Esmom says:

      Good point about her staying with him despite the child molestation stuff. She’s probably numb at this point so any new revelations are not likely to affect her. Ugh.

    • NUTBALLS says:

      I doubt they think he has the right to cheat, since they interpret the Bible literally. But, because forgiveness is also taught, she will be told she needs to forgive and stay in the marriage. He’ll be given chance after chance to straighten up and fly right or cheat again. With a family/cult as large as the Duggers, it would take a huge dose of courage for her to leave him with four kids to raise on her own. She might be able to if she has the support of her family.

      I feel horrible for Anna for the double-whammy of shame and disappointment she must be feeling after the past couple of months. I’d be on anti-depressants and barely able to tend to my four kids if I was in her shoes.

      • Norman Bates' Mother says:

        Would they forgive her if she cheated? The Duggars are very clear about their patriarchal approach to life and they are very hypocritical about their literal Bible interpretations. They do it until they don’t. They excused him for molesting his own sisters and the Bible doesn’t give him a right to do it. They even tried to put a blame on the girls he molested. But they are not as willing to forgive anyone for being gay or transgender, or women for having abortions, out-of-wedlock babies or wearing “inappropriate” clothes, so so much for biblical forgiveness. He might not officially be free to cheat – but I agree with Kaiser that they would like to bring back the 1950’s – men can have sidepieces and women should pretend they don’t know about it.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      She also has no education and no job and no way to support herself.

      • Merritt says:

        That is part of how they force women to stay. They make it as hard as possible for them to have any way to leave and be independent.

  17. christine says:

    It’s so cliche and wonderful. I wonder how quickly he wil blame his wife or the media for his own actions.

  18. Ummm. says:

    LOLZ.

  19. Jen says:

    I’m picturing this scene…Anna is upset, JimBob and his servant urge her to go take care of the babies and they promise to “have a talk” with him. Then when they get him alone they chastise the crap out of him for getting caught (NOT doing it) because he promised to keep his debauchery under wraps and now the faaaamily will never get back on TV to share their “faith”.

    G A G.

  20. Nancy says:

    He appears to be your run-of-the-mill scumbag. While not a fan of the rest of the Duggar family, I do have empathy for them. Poor miss Anna…..who looks so adoringly at him and thought she hit pay dirt marrying into this famous reality tv family. She went from living in a beautiful D.C. home to taking the walk of shame to some piece of crap home in Arkansas with this freak. Better have some special Bible readings Jim Bob, your days of basking in the sun picking up those TLC checks are long gone.

  21. SypherMomma says:

    I don’t approve of what the hackers have done, a lot of people’s lives can/will be turned upside down. But this hack is NEWS and deserves to be reported on. 36 million people had their information leaked….almost all of them are nobodies, so the press won’t pick it up.

    But Scumbags like Duggar deserve a public smack down…

    Josh Duggar and his ilk, make their living off of the suffering of others. They picket and lobby against the LGBTQ Community and Planned Parenthood. They treat women abysmally in their cult and don’t think for one second there aren’t any other pedophiles within their group. RUN ANNA RUN!

    • Betti says:

      I agree with your sentiment.

      While hacking and adultery are wrong and i don’t condone it, the hackers exposed not only these hypocrites but how the owners of the site were ultimately scamming people. People were paying to have their accounts deleted and they weren’t. People were paying to guarantee to have an affair when most of the female profiles were fake. There are 2 disgusting parts to this story, sadly the adulterous part will get more press than the scamming part and while you will think those who signed up deserved it (and they did), its still fraud. A lot of dating sites are frauds with more fake profiles than real people. I have tried online dating and it’s rife with men looking for affairs. Some of the messages i had were just disgusting and OK Cupid was one of the worst for it (so no surprise Duggar had a profile on there).

      • SypherMomma says:

        A lot of tech websites are convinced that this was an inside job, that someone at AM knew about them scamming customers and storing data long after it should have been deleted.

        This has exposed the many flaws in this type of website, so hopefully for those folks that still frequent adult sites this means stricter security.

        I’m not defending the cheaters, but there are many people who have issued anonymous statements about their use of the site to find: thirds or couples willing to swing. They’re not hurting anybody and don’t deserve to be publicly outed.

    • Cran says:

      I don’t agree with the hacking either. Yes a lot of people’s lives can and will be turned upside down. I am genuinely sorry for the families and for the people whose identities have been taken and used to cover up another’s infidelities. I in no way feel bad for people who made legitimate use of these sites. By all means use all legal options available to prosecute the hackers. It’s the Internet. You took the risk by willingly putting your information out there. You alone caused your families pain and embarrassment. No one is responsible for that but you.

    • Zip says:

      I don’t feel bad for cheaters. I feeld bad for the partners who have been cheated on.

      • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

        As a woman who was cheated on, I’m happy for the partners of these cheaters. Now they know the truth. It hurts, but it’s better than just feeling like something is wrong, but not knowing what it is. Now they can choose how to move forward with their lives.

      • Delta Juliet says:

        Exactly. Being hacked is bad but the CHEATERS are ultimately the ones who ruined their marriages.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Seriously. I understand what people are talking about when they say ‘lives will be turned upside down’ but come on folks…this is a website that claimed guaranteed affairs…you don’t think those relationships/families weren’t already screwed up?

        I liken this to if a pedophiliar ring got hacked and regardless of anyone’s privacy, I wouldn’t give a good goddamn about who got revealed.

        You didn’t have a fling with an old crush or drink too much at a bar. You signed up for a website and provided credit card information with the intent of having an affair with ANYONE who was willing – please take your licks and see a divorce lawyer.

  22. Jazz says:

    The brainwashed wife will never leave him. Sadly.

  23. Anniefannie says:

    I love exposing loud mouth, sanctimonious , hate filled, wing nuts for what they are ….hypocrital cheaters espousing values & standards to lessers they have no intention of living up to. The self loathing must be strong and I hope he chokes on it!

  24. minx says:

    People magazine got burned..their cover story is “After the scandal,” another PR puff piece.
    Heh.

    • K says:

      People needs to stop trying to make the drugggers work again. At this point only people magazine looks foolish

      • Msmlnp says:

        Exactly. everyday it’s something ridiculous, to the point of that black sheep Cousin Amy being covered.

        How many times do they need to step in sh*t to know it stinks?

    • Christin says:

      Timing is everything, isn’t it? 😃

  25. INeedANap says:

    Should we be grateful he was looking for adults this time?

  26. JenB80 says:

    I really do feel bad for Anna. And in that cult culture it would be nearly impossible to get any support leave him. What a hand to be dealt/brainwashed.
    He deserved to be exposed because of all the anti-gay crap he participated in while preaching about the sanctity of marriage. Sure JOSH_THE_MAN, sure.

  27. Maefabulous says:

    This is just…. delicious schadenfreude. I am almost dizzy with it.

    I had a good hard laugh at it. Then tweeted him saying “With your busy schedule of no.ncing and in.cest, i’m surprised you find time for adultery”.

    Disgusting, hypocritical, homophobic sh.it pig.

  28. Jas says:

    I do sympathise with him because he was marinated in crazy from birth and it’s extremely difficult to emerge from that without serious issues. I hope that he loses the excuses, the arrogance, the ignorance and humbles himself enough to educate himself on why he has behaved as he has done, why he’s drowning in hypocrisy and recognises and rejects the lies that he was raised on to become a better person. Unless he does that, people will continue to enjoy his exposure as the fraud he is. It wasn’t his fault that his parents brainwashed him in ignorance, deprived him of a normal social environment to grow healthily and demonised sex to the point where it has caused him serious sexual problems but he is an adult now, he has a responsibility to himself and his children to recognise their mistakes so he doesn’t repeat those mistakes with his own family.

    • lulu1 says:

      This is the only comment in this vein, and I totally agree with it.

      Of course Josh is an adult; he is 100% aware that this is wrong and he is responsible ….BUT he is also a product of his parents’ choices and his religion.
      They have spouted and judged and preached and showed off …they were so proud of themselves and sure of themselves that they even wanted it filmed and publicized…they are such arrogant parents, they even sell their superior methods to other, surely inferior parents. So now they should ask themselves; if this is their first child-project, their eldest son, and he is a result of exposure to such wonderful values, what the heck are the rest of them going to be like? Will they paint him as the black sheep? Or will they reassess their wonderful parenting skills?
      Maybe take some advice from some of the rest of us out here in the real world…where kids have urges that can’t be prayed away; where civilisation has and always be made of up of people with different sexual orientation; where people of other religions and people of no religion need to be acknowledged; where women have fought and continue to fight for equality and we each have a responsibility to participate in that; where the success of the social construct which is the western nuclear family has to be questioned…
      The condescension in the Duggar Model represents all that I hate in religion: the belief that some people are the ‘chosen few’. Ugh! The only way forward towards any kind of global peace (however temporary) is educating together, and any religion that espouses keeping kids out of mainstream school, and any country that tolerates it is in my eyes, as guilty as ISIS of contributing towards the next generation of problems. It empowers parents to force-feed any kind of psychological nonsense and warped worldview down their kids’ throats. It’s simply dangerous.
      The Duggar parents make me so angry. And a large part of the hate for Josh should be redirected to his failures of parents. They just got it all so wrong.

    • Chichi says:

      I see your point. If it werent for his hypocrisy and total lack of self awareness I would be sympathetic. I just saw the newer Gawker article about his OKCupid account and his responses to the registration questions are gross.

      Sample: Are there circumstances in which a woman is obligated to have sex with you- Josh answers YES. Because rapist in da house, ofcourse!

    • Wren says:

      While I agree, I don’t think that’s likely or even possible. It would take deep soul searching, not to mention real therapy, for Josh to realize how far down the twisted rabbit hole he’s been.

      Josh has not shown any inkling of doing anything of the kind, and why should he? He’s been told his whole life that he’s special (because he’s a man), he will be forgiven for anything he does (because, man), his wife and all other females exist for his use and pleasure, and he will burn in the fiery pits of hell if he so much as considers another way of life. He has not been taught empathy, compassion or critical thinking skills. He likely doesn’t really know how the “rest of us” (heathens) live and labors under a lot of misapprehensions about the world. That’s a lot to come out from under.

  29. Colette says:

    Josh only had those accounts so he could “minister” to the women who responded to him.He was trying to help these women get closer to the Lord.It is similar to missionary work.Sometimes you have to got outside the church to hookup sites to spread the WORD.
    #Sarcasm

    • Lilacflowers says:

      I said that last night on yesterday’s thread. He really had their best interests at heart and was trying to save their souls. We’re all just evil for failing to support him.

      • Liberty says:

        It was a superb comment, as funny as it was probably dead accurate to the reality they will spin and so I mentioned it and you above in my comment.

        I hope people will go back and read what you wrote last night, then watch they Duggar response unfold.

    • frisbee says:

      Oh dear, Sarcasm is not likely to be in his Cult/families vocabulary and I think you may have just given him the best PR spin/excuse available!

    • sauvage says:

      “Missionary” being the operative word here.

      Yeah, I KNOW it’s lame, and I still couldn’t resist.

  30. Ronda says:

    im always surprised how flexible morals of people like him are. i remember reading about a male escort servicing women in the bible belt. he wrote that they all ask him if he was christian. that blew my mind, adultery was ok and having sex with someone they are not married to too but he must be christian…

  31. Trillian says:

    I’m sure they are going to “pray about it” and everything will be fine. Oh the crap this God person has to put up with …

  32. Lamppost says:

    Why is this scumbag not in prison???

  33. K says:

    Eww. But I have to ask what is a man that didn’t even kiss his wife until they were married going to teach? I mean sorry I’m dying to know that.

    And if he gets the mistress pregnant would he be ok with an abortion? hard to preach family values with a side piece running around with your kid.

    I feel bad for his wife, she will be blamed and called a failure as a woman. She’ll be told she didn’t fulfill her roll as a woman and a wife and that because of her actions Josh and no choice and she’ll believe it. She won’t leave she will just fall victim to the emotional abuse and become more subsurviant.

    • Adele Dazeem says:

      I think he will teach the “Missionary” position.

      • Amy Tennant says:

        When he said “someone I can teach, that sounded like code for very young to me, or at least inexperienced (probably both). May be confirmation bias on my point, but that’s how it looks to me.

      • Liberty says:

        Amy T, I agree and that just — ugh. This cult.

    • BearcatLawyer says:

      Teach them that QuiverJesus says it’s ok to have sex with a sleazy, pedophilic, right wing reality TV hypocrite? That’s my best guess, but I have not had my coffee yet.

  34. LAK says:

    So yesterday I was all giddy with schadenfreude, but this morning i’m having a different set of thoughts.

    His list of wants, not to mention the fact that he can’t decide what physical type of woman he wants tells me how limited and restrictive his sex ed was. The list is quite basic. He is essentially exploring what he should have been exploring as teen or young man before marriage.

    He should have done it the old fashioned way and hired a prostitute to teach him this stuff.

    • Lilacflowers says:

      And yet he wants someone he can teach.

      • Betti says:

        With that one i got the impression of role playing (i have a sick mind – apologies), something am sure Anna wouldn’t let him do. He’s the teacher and she is the young pupil (ala Brit’s Baby One More Time kinda outfit). It feeds into the peado mindset.

        Now that i have traumatised you I’ll leave the thread.

      • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

        Yes, he wants a young girl who knows even less about sex than he does. Who registered on a cheaters site. Guaranteed. Good luck with that. Moron.

    • Josephine says:

      Ugh. He should have had some loving relationships. not hire a prostitute. Please don’t make that a normal thing. Prostitution ruins people who are already heavily damaged. There is nothing normal or good about men going to prostitutes. His inability to pick a physical type suggests to me that he likes more than one type, and lots of people are basic in their desires.

      • LAK says:

        Given his background, he was never going to have any chance of finding loving relationships, which is the point I am making.

        Much of what he is seeking is stuff most people explore as teens and young adults, including the ability to pick a physical type using a trail and error method.

        You don’t go on a website to buy something, in this case a guaranteed affair, and then not know what to order.

        For arguments’ sake, if the website is guaranteeing the affair, who should they send? They want repeat custom so the more customer satisfaction the better, but if the customer clearly doesn’t know what they want, how can they help?

        I’m not going to get into a debate about the prostitution industry except to say that it should be legalised so that sex workers are better protected.

        It’s much more hurtful to seek out what is essentially companionable sex with a stranger instead of your wife. He goes as far as asking for someone he can talk to. That clearly says something about his marriage.

        BTW: i’m not blaming his wife at all here. She isn’t responsible for his problems.

        If anyone is to blame, it’s his parents for not fostering proper parenting with regards sex and companionship and consequently he molested his sisters and is now seeking guaranteed companionable affairs to learn all about it.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      While his list sounds basic I’m not entirely convinced it’s because he’s some poor guy who didn’t get a chance to explore.

      Some people put everything they want like its a grocery list and others put generics. It’s a website to have affairs, not loving relationships. A lot of the stuff people hold as important is important because they want the relationship to start off on a respectable/agreeablelevel (has to have a job, has to love dogs, enjoys kink, etc.).

      Josh just wants someone to bang and when no one bit the first time he doubled up his money to get ANYONE guaranteed.

  35. Dana says:

    I’m looking at his responses to OKCupid’s questions on his (alleged) profile.

    Not surprising:

    How do you feel about government-subsidized food programs (free lunch, food stamps, etc.)? “Never. Get a job.”

    Do you feel there are any circumstances in which a person is obligated to have sex with you? “Yes”

    Do you think it is possible for someone to be an Atheist and still have a solid moral framework by which to live? “No”

    Are you the type of person to tell a homeless person to get a job? “Yes”

    The idea of gay and lesbian couples having children is: “Not Acceptable”

    Which best describes your political beliefs? “Conservative / Right-wing”

    Do you believe that men should be the heads of their households? “Yes”

    For you personally, is abortion an option in case of an accidental pregnancy? “No”

    These did surprise me:

    Should evolution and creationism be taught side-by-side in school? “Yes, students should hear both sides”

    Do you put more weight in science or faith? “Equally in both”

    Would you need to sleep with someone before you considered marrying them? “Yes”

    Is it okay to live with someone you’re dating, even before you’re engaged or married? “Yes”

    Do you believe a couple should live together before considering marriage? “Yes”

    (Though now I’m thinking the above 3 responses actually aren’t that surprising in light of the dating/courting rules the Duggar kids had to follow )

    Hmmm…:

    Would you consider having an open relationship (i.e., one where you can see other people)? “Yes”

    Have you been faithful in all of your past relationships? “No”

    LOL:

    Are you smarter than most people? “Yes”

    “Would you prefer to be a financial success or to remain true to your principles? “I’ll stick with my principles, thanks.”

    What do you think of reality television? “It’s alright”

    • Daria Morgendorffer says:

      Loving his comments about society, like the fact that he would tell a homeless person to get a job, and doesn’t believe in government-subsidized food programs. The irony is that his family can’t survive without the money from their reality TV show and will likely have to join those government-subsidized food programs. He should tell his parents to get jobs, especially since they probably all believe that people who can’t afford children shouldn’t have them. Love that pieces of sh-t like him and his family hold these views yet call themselves Christians. I’m not even religious, but as it was discussed on a post about him yesterday, there is no record of Jesus Christ behaving the way these people do, or holding the beliefs that they do. As a matter of fact, their behavior is the antithesis of “Christ-like.”

      Christianity has become a breeding ground for hateful, disgusting people. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I pity him because I don’t, but here is a man who is completely f-cked up and damaged by his parents and their ridiculous religious beliefs.

    • Jayna says:

      Some of his answers stun me, about living together before marriage, open relationships, etc. Papa Duggar is going to go ballistic on that more than him being on the Ashley Madison site. Jim Bob might say his lust is something he fights against and the church is helping him, blah, blah. But in some of those answers he is, in essence, outing himself by saying things that he believes that go against everything they preach and are taught, so he is a phony. He believes couples should live together before considering marriage. Wow. Since ol’ Jim Bob is so proud of his family being monitored while courting and only allowed side hugs before marriage, that’s a big admission that he believes nothing his church pushed down his throat regarding sex and dating and marriage.

    • Starrywonder says:

      Ugh. There is never a time to not have sex! He’s a piece of crap.

    • Chichi says:

      His replies are sickening. The reason his answers to the sex questions are so liberal is because he is trawling the site for sex not marriage. What good would it do him to state that couples shouldnt have pre-marital sex or live together, when he is trying to net women who will bang him without his marrying them?

      • lunchcoma says:

        I got the feeling he might regret having married with no sexual experience and may have genuinely revised his views on that and be seeking a similarly conservative but dissatisfied women (I cant imagine there were many unhappily married twentysomething women looking for casual sex in DC who were also interested in him, though, so I’d be surprised if that OkCupid profile received any responses). Unfortunately, that hasn’t led him to be more compassionate about anyone else’s dissatisfaction or difficulties, including those of his wife.

    • doofus says:

      so, let me get this straight…

      helping the less fortunate = bad

      sexing a woman when she doesn’t want to (rape) = good

      hiding behind your religion to spew hate against others and cheating on your wife = good

      touching little kids sexually = good

      what would Jesus do, indeed?…

    • Jorts says:

      The thing is, people (in this case men) on dating sites often answer the question portion of their profile untruthfully. In other words, they sometimes craft their answers to appeal to the type of woman they’re looking for.

      To me, it seems like he’s creating a profile that seems very Religion-Lite even if still conservative politically. Maybe he thought that if he seemed too religious that it might not appeal to the type of “fun-loving” woman he’s looking for so he tempered that aspect a bit.

      OR it could be that he pays a lot of lip-service to the Fundie NeoCons when in reality he’s not 100% committed to that belief system.

      Or it could be both, really. Nothing surprises me when it comes to this dbag.

  36. jwoolman says:

    Um, er, uh, lessee – research? 🙂

    If that doesn’t fly, it must have been a setup by heathen liberal lesbians. Yeah, that’s it.

  37. cannibell says:

    What I really want now is a collage of those pictures of Josh with presidential hopefuls.

  38. Daisyduck says:

    And this is what happens when you teach your children to suppress their sexuality for years and years (especially when hormones are raging at a certain age). It’s got to come out somewhere, and this, and the molestation, is it.
    It’s beyond ironic to me that these people make normal consensual sex between two people so so wrong. Maybe they should have focused on teaching him what sort of sexual behaviour is not acceptable (i.e. all of his scandalous behaviour)??

    • Crumpet says:

      Naw, he’s just a pervert.

    • Miss Melissa says:

      I agree Daisyduck. His list of interests tells the tale. He is desperate for a safe place to explore sex without judgement.

      No one in that household could ever come out of it without anything but a warped and twisted view on the nature of sexuality, women, and the sinfulness of lust.

      Despite that, every one of these people is unapologetically hateful in their piety, religious vanity and judgement of others. I find the fall glorious.

      It turns out the greatest threat to the sanctity of marriage is…. Josh Duggar.

      • Daisyduck says:

        Haha, Yes!!

        That’s exactly what I’m trying to say. I just hope everyone who has ever watched that show has taken the Duggar’s weird beliefs with a pinch of salt, and not as an example to follow. So, unhealthy and wrong to raise your kids like that.

    • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

      It goes beyond the suppression of sexuality. That alone doesn’t explain his deviant behavior.

      I don’t believe that people randomly become pedophiles. I suspect that Josh was abused himself — probably by his father and possibly other members of the cult — and that this is learned behavior. That said, he’s an adult now and everything that he’s said and done (check out his OK Cupid profile for more evidence) indicates he’s an abusive, hypocritical a$$hole out of choice.

    • lolab says:

      It goes deeper than sexual repression for this guy. I believe the deeper you repress something, try to not acknowledge its existence, the harder it will kick you in the ass for sure. But this dude was molesting his sisters compulsively, so there’s something going on with this guy that is darker and more deviant than most two faced religious perverts.

  39. My Two Cents says:

    Surprise surprise! Another media hyped person exposed for cheating. They simply presented an image that people actually believed to be true. Then once again truth comes out. When that image was exposed to be fake, the media then gets to rip them to shreds. I think its all very sad. He obviously was never what was portrayed and everybody knew it but the public watching.

  40. OSTONE says:

    I wish someone would start a gofundme or kickstart for Anna. So she can leave that smug SOB. “Gays are ruining the sanctity of marriage”. No, d*ckhead, people like you are.

  41. gatinhaXoXO says:

    She will never leave him.

  42. Kiddo says:

    I had so many feelings on this, which is completely weird.

    1. It’s disheartening the number of hacks into websites. Does anyone know who claimed responsibility and why?
    2. Schadenfreude on hypocrisy, which then caused me to hate myself deeply, for being happy about someone I don’t know’s gotcha moment.
    3. At least at this point, from what has been revealed, he has a rather missionary vanilla bent on a sexual affair. Further, so far, none of this seems to involve seeking underage girls or women with children. So that’s a relief.
    4. If true, there is something to be said about the very restrictive environment he was exposed to and the shame imposed upon anything beyond married relations.
    5. I wonder how many other lives will become unraveled from this hack.

    • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

      As I said above, I do feel sorry for the men and women who were cheated on. But having been in this position myself, it’s better to know the truth. I’m happy for them. Most of them probably suspected or had a feeling something was amiss, but were told by their partner that everything was fine and they were crazy or jealous or imagining things. Now they know. They can make an informed choice about what to do.

      • Kiddo says:

        I know. I just have very mixed feelings on these revelations being posted. I imagined a hypothetical person who contemplated cheating (as a symptom of something gone wrong in their life) who might otherwise be decent but made a serious error, KWIM? Maybe not a serial cheater. People may be on that site, who had a change of heart. I just feel like it’s exposure where there may be nuanced, shades of gray, and whose right is it to turn all of this out? It wasn’t only politicians revealed, it was everyone.

        I know no one can expect real privacy anymore, but I would like to know the motivation behind posting all this info. Is the hacking group some kind of moral justice group? Is this really the way we want to go in society? I don’t know. And I’m a person who has never signed up even for online dating sites. But it puts me very ill at ease, the complete destruction of the old ‘none of your beeswax’ adage.

        ETA: Just want to reiterate that I am no fan of this family and their family ‘values’.

      • GoodNamesAllTaken says:

        Yes, I see what you mean. And no one has the “right” to expose this information. I wonder at their motives, too. As far as someone registering on there, then having a change of heart, I still think it is best if the couple can have that out in the open and clear the air. I’m glad I left my first husband for many reasons, but I sometimes wonder if I had not been so naive and blind to his infidelities – if I had discovered the very first one and he had suffered some consequences for it, and my eyes could have been opened to what was really going on – if maybe I wouldn’t have wound up in the place I eventually did. We could have gone to counseling or I could have left a lot sooner. The truth hurts, but it’s always better than living a lie.

        PS – lol, I would never have mistaken our Kiddo for a Duggars fan, don’t worry.

      • kri says:

        All yes to this^^^^

    • LAK says:

      I’m right there with you on all of it.

      However, with regards to point 1, I really don’t understand why people don’t take internet security seriously.

      The internet is NOT secure argo don’t put your personal information on it.

      Yes that means you are restricting yourself, but so is walking across a motorway full of moving traffic. You take precautions.

      And saddest of all, when it’s govt institutions that are hacked, general population simply shrug and continue to leave their personal details on the Internet and are then outraged when those details are leaked. It’s like Edward Snowden (and others)’s warning was lost in the wind.

      • Kiddo says:

        The government ‘back doors’ are partially, or largely, responsible for these easy hacks. Easy for the government to hack for spying, ergo easier for smart and /or persistent hackers to get through because it’s their only goal.

        EVERYONE has personal information on the internet. There are medical histories and prescription histories, banking statements and a host of other things that are out there, even if you never set foot in the interwebz.

        And if you buy anything, search anything, read a news item, all of your information and habits and interests are out there.

      • LAK says:

        It’s one thing for the govt to spy on you without your knowledge , it’s another to simply hand your information to hackers which is what you are doing by putting your personal details on the internet.

        I look at this situation like those people who tweet that they’ve gone to dinner and are then surprised to find they were robbed whilst they were out.

      • (Original, not CDAN) Violet says:

        Agreed. I’m shocked that there are still people out there who don’t realize that the only way to have a truly private conversation is in person, face-to-face.

    • Abbicci says:

      The group claiming responsibility for this hack did it because Ashley Madison was charging members substantial additional fees and claiming there would be no digital footprint of their shenanigans. A cheat all you want and no proof fee.
      I don’t think the hackers care one bit about who was getting some on the side they are trying to prove that unhackable/ safe sites are both hackable and unsafe. They are showing that anyone selling you security online is a snake oil salesman.

      The douche bags who hacked celebrity phones were doing it to humiliate the women these hackers are trying to humiliate web designers who claim abilities they do not have.

      The fact that there will be collateral damage doesn’t seem to interest them.

      • Kiddo says:

        They could have posted some redacted data to prove that point. Snowden, at least, left the job up to respectable journalists.

      • Abbicci says:

        I know Kiddo. It would be nice if they had handled it differently. I guess Snowden was handling classified/national security stuff and he did take the high road. I am really torn on this one. Hacking personal data for is illegal and immoral. At the same time, I don;t feel bad for a single one of these people.

        Ashley Maddison has long been a hiding place for prostitution and human trafficking. I could care less if people cheat. I do care that there are people who have no qualms about buying a woman for a few hours if there is any possibility she is there not of her free will and being used by some pimp.

      • Kiddo says:

        Abbicci, excellent point about the trafficking, if that is truly what is happening.

    • Alyce says:

      Like GNAT I was also cheated on and I think it’d be horrible to find out this way (ie. At the same time as everyone else). That being said, it’d still be worth it to know bc these people actually sought out and PAID for affairs. They didn’t make a drunk mistake, they didn’t develop feelings for someone at work, etc (which already hurts enough), they purposely set out to cheat. No sympathy for these cheaters at all.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        Exactly. The website has a ‘guaranteed affair price point’ maybe a lot of women in these situations are like Anna who won’t leave their man even if he abuses their children.

        But God I’d want to know, sometimes the truth gets revealed in shocking and unexpected ways but better this then a surprise STD at a gyno visit.

  43. Layla says:

    Love the idea of a Free Anna Kickstarter campaign. I’d donate to that before buying myself lunch.

    • shannon says:

      LOVE this.

    • NGBoston says:

      ^^^^ THIS x 1,000,000

    • Vampi says:

      I’m in! If someone starts one, please let me know. But…only if provisions were in place to use the money to free her, and not line that scumbbag Josh’s pockets.
      Seriously…if any Duggar children want out of that cult, I will donate to each and every one of them. Again, with provisions. #FreeDuggarChildren

  44. Marianne says:

    Anna’s not going to leave him. She’s too far into the cult. I don’t think they even believe in divorce.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Pretty much, the comments saying they hope she leaves him seem to have forgotten we’re talking about a cult here.

      She’s not leaving.

  45. shannon says:

    I grew up in the IFB and she can divorce him since there was infidelity, however, if she wants to get remarried in the church, it will be very difficult to find a pastor that will allow remarriage after a divorce. I am divorced and most pastors I have come in contact with believe that I should remain celibate and unmarried for the rest of my life, unless my former spouse dies. I am absolutely not saying that is how it should be, but since she is so deep into the IFB, I doubt she will even leave him, let alone get remarried. I feel bad for her, but she had to have had an inkling of who he was when she married him.

    • LAK says:

      Those pastors are advocating a literal reading of a passage in the bible where a woman shouldn’t remarry whilst her divorced husband lives. The passage equates her remarriage to adultery.

    • Cee says:

      If you’re Catholic and you divorce, regardless the reason for it, you get kicked out of the Church, You can remarry, but only in the eyes of the Law (the only eyes that actually count, IMHO) but not in a church. However, some priests are cool enough to bless the union if a ceremony is conducted outside of a church.

      Hopefully this new Pope will change this, although seeing how it goes against a Sacrament – Marriage – I doubt it will happen.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Depending on the reason, you can seek annulment and if you are granted one, you are free to remarry in the Catholic Church. The new pope has talked of wanting to find ways to welcome the divorced back to the Church and to make annulments easier to obtain.

    • lunchcoma says:

      That’s interesting to hear, shannon. I also wonder if Anna would be able to find a man who more or less shares her beliefs who’d be interested in a relationship with her. I know some men who are themselves divorced with small children who are very involved with other conservative churches, and they all are looking to date very young women or somewhat older ones in Jana Duggar’s position. Their former wives mostly need to look to less religious men if they want relationships.

      • shannon says:

        You got it. The church is SO much more lenient towards men, even if they were the ones who were unfaithful to begin with. Divorced women in the eyes of most conservative churches are good for nothing, except nursery work – if that. Divorced men are free to date younger, unmarried, childless women, where most divorced women need to look only to divorced men in the same position they are. But like I said, even then, it’s very, very rare that she would be able to find any pastor to re-marry her. I certainly do believe that marriage is a holy institution, but it’s the bias towards men that runs horribly rampant in these conservative churches that I find very disturbing.

  46. Gabrielle says:

    I feel so bad for Anna. She was so young when she married him and her father basically forced her into it. I really believe she had no idea what he was really all about.

    • Pinetree13 says:

      I agree. She also had back to back children and is burdened with full domestic duty…no time for anything else

  47. Citresse says:

    Right now, I don’t have time to read all previous comments; if this is a repeat of someone’s comment already, my apologies, but anyway:
    PEOPLE magazine is slowly but surely attempting to shove this family down our collective throats (again), others are carrying this family because they want them to return to the limelight more than anything else.
    Enough is enough. This family is a fraud. Get rid.

  48. Crumpet says:

    Now what are you going to say Huckabee? I am SO interested in what the fallout from this is going to be. Time for some people to say they were wrong to support this smug jackass. His poor wife and kids. God bless these hackers (never thought I’d say that).

    • Crumpet says:

      I wish I could take back the part about God bless the hackers, after reading Kiddo’s posts, but I can’t. We are all preaching our morality codes at each other, aren’t we? All I can say is, I hope his children are and will be OK.

      • I Choose Me says:

        I feel the same way Crumpet. I was all gleeful that Josh was getting his comeuppance but I didn’t think about the implications and ramifications of the hacking itself. Now that I have, I too have mixed feelings. And yes, the only sympathy I have is for his young children. I can’t help but wonder what kind of father he is to them.

  49. Murphy says:

    I feel so bad for her because he started this soon after she had their second baby and that was a pretty difficult labor. Why couldn’t he cut her some slack on the “submitting” front when his son just ripped her jeanie open? I could ask a lot of men that question actually.

    And no, she’s not going to be able to leave him ever. Its really sad.

    • Miss Melissa says:

      Because cutting her slack would mean he actually loves, respects and values her.

      I don’t see men in that cult being taught that, do you?

  50. Ninks says:

    I don’t think I’ve ever been so thrilled about a sleazy asshole getting his dues. I’m sorry for his wife, it’s a personal humiliation that she has to bare in public. Obviously he’s a jerk and I have very little sympathy for him but the people who really deserve to be shamed and humiliated are his awful parents. They are reaping what they sowed. He abused his sisters, in part, because of the fucked up sex education he received from his parents, and they covered it up. He was let off with a little slap on the wrists. Why should he obey the rules when there are no consequences to breaking them. He can do what he wants because his parents and his family will excuse him and forgive him and treat HIM as the victim. If his parents had properly disciplined him for his actions when he was a teenager, he might have learned a lesson and wouldn’t be so entitled and selfish as an adult.

  51. MonicaQ says:

    I could’ve taught someone more about sex in the 8th grade than Josh Duggar can now. Please.

    Also while I’m usually on the White Hat side of things (simply due to my job), I’ll switch it out to Gray if for my own personal feelings on this. People complaining about “morality police” make me eyeroll. It’s their own fault. Don’t do something shady, get caught, and then call it “gamesmanship” or “violation” because you were caught ’cause you would’ve kept doing it in the first place. Don’t want to get yelled at for cheating? Don’t get married, don’t have a committed non-open relationship. It’s simple.

    Some of these people work on some 9 + apple = space shuttle logic.

    • Kiddo says:

      Who gets to decide what is shady? **You changed your comment since mine, about the shady part, but it still stands***. What if there is some group who finds what you are doing is shady? What if they reveal some embarrassing detail from your medical records? What if a couple has an open relationship, being totally okay with the partner being on that site, but wants to keep a lid on it for professional or family-sake? Does someone else have the right to tell everyone else about their private lives?

      That’s the conundrum for me. It’s not all cut and dry.

      And how is telling these people they deserve retribution any different than Josh preaching his morality code?

      • Crumpet says:

        Oh Kiddo. You do make a good point.

      • MonicaQ says:

        I didn’t say they deserve retribution–rather it’s a predictable outcome. Eventually you are caught in some way.

        I’d be ok with my medical record. I just found out I’m infertile. I’ve never had an STI. I have a bridge and two crowns. I’m legally blind without my glasses. I had athlete’s foot in the 10th grade. I have a rape kit. I really don’t have much to hide. I can understand people not wanting things to get out in relation to their jobs and lively hood. That *is* concerning.

        Hence I said Gray hat. The dark part of me is happy because getting cheated on is no picnic. The DBA-Security-My-Job part of me does not the hacking of personal information in regards due to the violation of privacy. I admit that my own feelings are conflicting.

      • Cleo says:

        It’s amazing to me how many people here who think it’s cut & dried. There are lots of people out there who think any kind of extra-marital sex is wrong. Do I deserve to be outed in a public manner because I’ve had premarital sex? According to a lot of people’s argument – if they think it’s immoral than yes.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Well 9 + applesauce = space shuttle is just my new favorite thing.

      Maybe it’s old tin foil me but I don’t mess around on the Internet, it’s one of the few paranoias I indulge myself and it’s worked well at keeping my info safe because unfortunately we’re in a world where we can’t STOP hacking.

      Hacking happens and it sucks beyond belief but in this case there was no hack. Ol Lumpy signed up for a bad website where ones of its developers/employees got a God Complex and decided to teach the website and it’s users a harsh lesson in one gulp.

      My tears are slowing like the Sahara for these people.

  52. bettyrose says:

    It’s pervert overload this morning. In general, I don’t want to know which republican hypocrites are involved in consensual infidelities because they all are and it’s tiresome. But coming on top of this disgusting degenerate’s other scandal as a full fledged sexual predator, along with how quick notable candidates were to brush it aside as a youthful indiscretion, I want more fall out on the campaign trail. I don’t know how much more fallout their can be in the Duggar camp. They’ve lost the show and the cult doesn’t blame men for bad behavior, so there’s very little to hope for in terms of repercussions for Josh Duggar.

  53. Bluebell says:

    The whole thing is so depressing, I wish he had never done it.

    I feel so sorry for Anna and the children.

  54. Wonderbunny says:

    While the schadenfreude is strong with this one, I’ll take a different approach.

    In my opinion, if someone is actually looking to live a more spiritual life, it’s moments like these that are actually a blessing in disguise. You’re only as sick as your secrets and when the secrets are revealed, it’s an opportunity to heal oneself and start living a more honest life. It requires humility, forgiveness and compassion from the person themselves. Sure, other people can forgive you, but that doesn’t mean anything unless you come to terms with what you’ve done and what harm your actions have caused other people. Going through actual remorse is very cleansing. Also, a person who’s been through a rough patch is not so quick to judge others.

    These are opportunities to allow your soul to grow, but only if you’re really honest about it. Surely it would be a great thing for someone who actually wanted to live a more spiritual life. I don’t think the Duggars are that kind of people though. They’re all about control (and fame), and that is their downfall on every level of their human existence. I hope I’m wrong and they’ll actually learn something valuable from these experiences.

    • bettyrose says:

      Wonderbunny:

      You have a nice take on this, but it’s aggravating that people who condemn others for less “biblical” lifestyles get to claim spiritual rebirth when they’re caught in their lies. Meanwhile, people who have struggled to come to terms with not fitting into hetero-normative roles, and thus, over time, are perhaps more in touch with their needs and are able to conduct healthier, more fulfilling adult relationships, get no empathy from these people in their hatred of same sex couples, feminists, etc.

      • Wonderbunny says:

        I understand what you’re saying, but when it comes to fulfilling life, we shouldn’t try to seek empathy and validation from those who aren’t able to give those things. Still, that shouldn’t stop us from developing our own capacity for empathy and forgiveness.

        Believe me, I’m not condemning people for feeling a bit of joy over his misfortune. I totally get it. But moments like these are still an opportunity for growth, and that’s a positive thing and I like to look for the positive in everything.

        He has judged other people’s sexuality and now he’s the one being judged. This should be a moment of reflection and hopefully the outcome is “I should not have been throwing stones at other people”. If a person comes out of a situation as a more compassionate and forgiving person (truly, and not just going through the motions), then surely that is a positive thing for everyone. Justice boners are fun, but in the greater scheme of things, it’s still better that everyone can move towards compassion and forgiveness. And I will always want to preach that to counter what ever the Duggars are preaching.

      • Miss Melissa says:

        That presumes that the Duggars have any interest in growth.

        All signs point to NO.

        There is no humility there. That is a demonstrated FACT.

        Humility is the A number one requirement for any sort of growth: spiritual, emotional or intellectual.

        There is no depth there.

      • Wonderbunny says:

        @Miss Melissa: change is always possible, even if it’s not likely. So why not hope that this would be the wakeup call for them (or at least for someone)?

        My optimism (or perhaps “hope” would be a better word) is purely a reflection of my own spiritual beliefs. Realistically speaking? I would not bet my money on it.

    • Prim says:

      I’m not sure this man will be able to feel shame though, and I think shame when you hit your rock-bottom is necessary for change. If you can carry on in public life and in your marriage after being revealed as a paedophile, I doubt there is anything that will force you to change.

      • Wonderbunny says:

        You might be right, though I’m not sure if the paedophile scandal was his rock bottom, considering the people around him defended him. I don’t know what his rock bottom would be. Probably being stripped of his entire security network, but I don’t think that will ever happen. Still, even if one scandal didn’t work, perhaps several subsequent scandals would shake him up enough to reconsider his life choices.

  55. Amy M. says:

    I doubt Anna will leave him over this. I think it would take something huge for her to leave him and who knows how big that would be… She stayed with him when it came out he molested his sisters. Maybe a sex tape? Or something even worse. Michelle and Jim Bob can go on and on about forgiveness all they want but there is no way they are ever going back on TV ever again. Apart from maybe appearing on the Bates’ show from time to time.

    • Cee says:

      He molested 4 of his sisters and another minor. If that wasn’t a big deal for her, this won’t be it. She’s with him for life.

      Edit: I suppose him touching any of his children would be Anna’s “ENOUGH” moment, but somehow I doubt it.

      • Miss Melissa says:

        I don’t think she has options. She grew up in that cult.

        And sadly, if she stays, neither will her daughters.

  56. mindydopple says:

    So I know I’m late to the party here and I’ll be buried in the comments but a lot of people are assuming his wife is up and reading the news like us… do they have the same Internet access? I know that sounds crazy but I never know with this family… what if he or someone caught wind of it and told her a new slanderous piece came out and it would be better if she didn’t read it. Then proceeded to isolate her from the news? I could definitely see that, she’ll assume Gawker was just guessing and didn’t have actual facts and billing addresses.

    • lunchcoma says:

      Anna has a Twitter account and an Instagram. Plus, her sisters in law basically live on social media. She’s isolated culturally, but no, she’s not isolated in the sense that she can’t communicate with the outside world.

  57. funcakes says:

    That wife not going anywhere. She’s swimming in the kool aid. I’m sure the duggar mom is constantly telling her to forgive her son and it’s the wife job to keep the family together.

  58. Cee says:

    I think it’s so funny how he lied about his DOB but didn’t even think about his name on the credit card matching both addresses of his legal residences.

    The only person I feel bad for is Anna Duggar, who might believe she has no other option but to stay where she is instead of going to any lawyer with common sense, divorce his ass, take her share of his money, and get custody of the 4 children.

    I hope the Duggars DO NOT release any kind of statement – the media will tear them a new one.

    Is Josh the only male Duggar with an A. Madison account? I’m looking at you Jim Bob.

  59. Heat says:

    Whenever I see pictures of Josh Duggar, I hear the TMZ guys’ voice in my head saying “I’m a pervert”.

  60. Andrea says:

    This is what happens in a super religious and restrictive family environment. Those stories about preacher’s daughters/sons being the wildest of anyone are what I have heard over the years. This is not the end of the skeletons coming out of the closet.

  61. jugil1 says:

    May he receive all that karma has to offer

  62. Cleo says:

    Let me say this first – Josh being exposed doesn’t bother me in the least. He preached so much hate towards who he thought of as “immoral” people, and him being exposed is such schadenfreude wonderment. I hope Anna’s more mainstream sisters give her the support she needs to get out of this horrible marriage. And my heart breaks for her knowing that she’s going to find herself in a doctor’s office being tested for STDs. One of my boyfriends cheated on me, and I found myself in the same situation. It’s horrible. I can’t even imagine what it would feel like if I had to do that because of my husband.

    That being said – this hacking was illegal. Yes – these people shouldn’t have been signed up on a cheating website. But this is just as illegal as someone exposing a site where gay people who couldn’t come out to their families were posting for support. Are the people exposed by this hack a lot less innocent & sympathetic? Yes. But it’s still illegal.

    A lot of lives are going to be blown up this week. Do the people that signed up for these sites “deserve” it? To some extent, yes. if you don’t fool around on your spouse or partner, you won’t get caught. And I would rather know than not know if my partner is cheating on me or planning to cheat on me. But there are going to be a lot of people & families in a lot of pain because of this. I can’t be happy about that.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      I kinda think of it as someone being a member of a pedophilia ring. Yes it’s not quite the same but the intent is to commit a crime (specifically marital affairs) that causes a lot of physical, mental, and economic hardship in secret to your family.

      The site had a ‘guaranteed’ affair price point – how do they guarantee that? Isn’t that basically prostitution via website and are they ensuring the guaranteed girls are safe and doing it of their own volition?

      Finally this wasn’t a hack. This was, ironically, a very large and public piece of karma. The release was done by people who worked for Ashley Maddison who were frustrated by AM collected $19 from customers for an absolute delete and didn’t follow through. Maybe they’d tried to get the company to come clean and when they didn’t they dumped the customer info in a public way AM couldn’t recover from.

      That’s right. The website people trusted to protect them while they cheated betrayed their trust and cheated them.

      I.R.O.N.Y.

      • Cleo says:

        Except pedophilia is illegal. Infidelity is not. It’s immoral & a horrible thing to do to your partner, but it’s not against the law.

        As far as the guaranteed affair goes, I’d be very surprised to find out it was anything like you were guaranteed to get laid. I think it’s probably more along the lines of you get your money back if you don’t find someone to have an affair with. Bringing prostitution into it at this point is a bit of a stretch.

        I could be wrong, but releasing all of that confidential information is still against the law. At the very least, they violated a confidentiality agreement. And if AM was being shady ( it certainly sounds like they were), there are ways to expose them without releasing all of these names.

        I’m not a fan of morality police. What you think is immoral may not be immoral in my view, and unless it’s illegal or I’ve been advocating against it in a publicly hypocritical way, it’s not your place to expose me in a very public manner. Lots of people think homosexuality is immoral. Would listing a bunch of people who are in the closet be OK?

        Like I said, these people took a risk & it blew up. A lot of them deserve it in my view. And there are a lot of them that probably don’t. It’s still not my place to expose these people I don’t know. I don’t know their reasons & their motivations.

        A lot of families & relationships got blown up today. And the people signing up for this site bear a lot of responsibility for that. But my heart goes out to those people who were cheated on who now have to deal with everyone knowing their relationship’s dirty laundry. I think it’s cruel.

      • wrinkled says:

        It’s a money back guarantee. From the site itself: if you don’t find someone within the initial 3 months after purchasing the “Affair Guarantee” Membership Package, we’ll refund you the amount you paid AshleyMadison.com for participating in the Program (the “Refund”).

        There are a number of conditions that need to be met in order for the money to be refunded, and these are apparently difficult to do without spending more money.

      • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

        I’m not a fan of the morality police either which is why I’m specifically enjoying Josh’s AM revelation. He had a chair with his name engraved on it in Morality Police Headquarters and now it’s come back to bite him.

        Tbh I feel bad but this is the way of the world now. Anything you volunteer to a company is vulnerable, especially a shady company that treats marrital affairs as its business model. While most people aren’t hurting anyone with the things they like or do privately cheaters are. Families will blow up and it sounds horrible because it’s a one fail swoop kind of blowing up but these families on some level will/already were blowing up in smaller ways (Josh being a perfect example).

        There’s already posts of women on the Internet who’s husbands cheated once and they forgave them only for this to be revealed. Those are women who will make it to the gyno and maybe catch something in time before it makes them sick. Women who have definitive proof they can use to make the law work better for them during divorce proceedings. I just feel like if something is broken it’s broken whether you know about it or not, if your spouse is making a financial choice to put his info out there to bang anyone a site will hook him up with your relationships was already on its dying embers.

    • Bluebell says:

      Yes. This 100%. This is a much better articulation of the main point I was trying to make further upthread.

      Adultery is A LOT different from child abuse, it’s bad, but it doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, in a comparison of sins. Of course affairs are immoral. But who am I to sit in judgement on people who have affairs? No one has the right to expose the users of this website so publicly. I feel really sorry for everyone who was hacked. It’s a much wider issue than bloody Josh Duggar. The people on here jumping up and down in delight shouting “I love karma!” etc and that the cheaters got what they were coming…..I just find it all so distasteful. But then, I hate any kind of schaudenfredue (spelling?).

  63. Carmen says:

    I bet a dollar to a donut hole all the divorce lawyers are out shopping for yachts and private jets this morning.

    • Izzy says:

      HuffPo Tweeted today that divorce lawyers are preparing for a “tsunami” in the wake of the AM hack.

      That’s putting it mildly.

  64. Mata says:

    Somewhere out there, a TLC exec is breathing a sigh of relief that they made the call to pull the plug when they did.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Right? Could you imagine the destruction at TLC if the Duggars had still been in purgatory while they waited to see if they could overcome their first scandal? Damn I’m almost sorry it didn’t happen now.

    • Izzy says:

      I don’t think so. Somewhere, a bunch of TLC execs are wondering if they should go ahead and air that special they filmed on sexual abuse, starring those experts, the Duggars.

      I know, one is a crime, the other is just immoral, but seriously, the optics on this are SO BAD, and TLC has already taken so many body blows from this. They ought to just can the special at this point. Or edit out the Duggars, except for parts that actually talk about the wrongdoing. I don’t think anyone wants to hear from those losers anymore about how they coped with it and blah blah.

  65. Msmlnp says:

    This just adds fire to my opinion that these people are sex obsessed and perverts and trolling us all.

    My hubs and I have 3 kids, and there is little time for intimacy. The idea of Jim Boob and Michelle behind closed doors procreating like rabbits while their children are being raised by OTHER children disgusts me to no end.

  66. Jayna says:

    Jim Bob will come out and blame the internet for everything.

  67. Lurker says:

    I really wish Anna would grow a spine, pack up those kids and run to the sister the whole family shunned. TLC would have one hella show out of that – “Anna On Her Own” as she buys her first pair of jeans, starts college and gets a life in the real world. And a book deal too. Now that’s something I can get behind. And then Jana and Jinger and whichever one is the gay son can escape and set up in NYC with their own show too.

    Only in my dreams.

  68. Jezza says:

    Love when these culty “JESUS JESUS JESUS!!!!” types fall on their hypocritical, sactimonious asses!!!

  69. NeoCleo says:

    His wife looks like his sisters. I am severely creeped-out by this man. I want everyone in this family to put their heads down and keep them down permanently. I can put up with a lot of BS from celebrities but GAWD I hate hypocrites.

  70. The Eternal Side-Eye says:

    So much of everything I would have ever said has been covered by others (and myself) so I’ll just say this:

    If that Mr. Potato-Head-Stay-Puffed-Man-looking-Father -****** didn’t actually list he wanted a ‘fit’ woman? Yeah Josh I bet your body wants a lot of things including its hairline back but it’s not happening.

  71. K 2 says:

    When she married Josh, her parents stated, all proudly, that they had told her the facts of life two weeks before she said I Do, because there’d been no need for her to know before.

    And they all claim that she was fully up to speed on his history when they started dating. Despite not actually knowing what sex even was.

    That poor, poor girl. I want an IndieGoGo fundraiser started, to build her an escape fund. Just on the tiny off-chance that one day she might use it.

  72. Juluho says:

    I hate to be in a position to defend this man and I’m not saying it’s not possible, but from what I’ve read the email addresses weren’t verified by AM so it’s possible it isn’t him.

    • K 2 says:

      Apparently there were credit card details and addresses, which all checked out, too.

      And the email address linked to the AM account is what unearthed the OKCupid account. Which was years old.

      For the AM details to be faked, someone would have had to know that the AM leak would happen and set up an OKCupid for him years in advance.

  73. Miss E says:

    Anna should divorce him, dump the cult and get her own TLC show and TLC money to get on her feet. Film her trying to navigate life outside of the cult and hopefully getting a proper education that would lead to a career that would enable her to provide for herself and children. Show the world how the cult handicaps women. She could be a role model for other women trapped in this shady so called religion.

    I am reminded of the polygamy blow up a few years ago. Women had been held captive and young boys had been kicked out so the pervy old men could keep adding teenage wives for years. When it became a media sensation so many came forward and understanding, help and resources were finally available.

    It’s easy to say Josh is gross and Dim Bob is creepy but it’s the women and kids that I’m truly concerned about.

  74. notasugarhere says:

    I’m amazed at the part where he used his real name, address, credit card, and email.

  75. Miran says:

    Can you die of Shadenfreude? Because if you can I am terminal.

  76. msw says:

    What a disgusting little ass booger. I’m sure it is Anna’s fault somehow.

  77. lolab says:

    Dead eyes. He’s creepy as hell.

  78. Izzy says:

    I have to admit, this one I did not see coming.

    During previous posts on the molestation, there was much agreement in the comments that there was still another shoe to drop. But I did not honestly think it would be this.

    Karma, I do like your style.

  79. MrsNix says:

    Here’s the only hope I have: that HER family has some actual men in it. Because in Arkansas, which is my home state, brothers and fathers will generally come in and take care of a wronged woman if she asks them to. If they’re decent. This culty-“fundie” BS religious perversion they’re all a part of may mean that her brothers and father will be utterly useless to her, but I hope not.

    It’s the only hope she’s got. If she moved home with her kids and her dad and brothers circled the wagons, she could OWN her pervy husband’s ass in court. She could take him for everything he’s got. And maybe she could find a way to start over, be normal, and be happy. She’s under 30 with four kids. That’s rough, man.

  80. Nymeria says:

    Anna isn’t going to leave him. She will deny her own feelings and ignore everything happening around her. Including what I believe to be the almost guaranteed sexual abuse of their own children.

    • The Eternal Side-Eye says:

      Seriously. At this point she’s looking down the barrel of a gun and still humming and twiddling her thumbs.

      If you want to say Josh is a *cough* normal man and his molestation of his sisters was a result of sexual frustration then she’s guaranteeing her own children will be abused. Clearly the man’s not happy and he wants for more in his sexual activities. I he can’t get it from an affair or porn or her there’s only one unprotected but easily accessible group left.

  81. Peanutbuttr says:

    Admits to looking at porn too

    http://gawker.com/josh-duggars-apology-i-have-been-the-biggest-hypocrit-1725405629

    Now I’m sure some Christian will come and say people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. But if the bastard is hurling objects at my house, you better damn well believe I’m sicking the pitbull at him.

  82. buzz says:

    probably not the last right-wing loon who will be found on this list

  83. Cait says:

    Y’all, I’m now at Jesus H. Tebowcon Level 5.

    If read his statement correctly, Josh Duggar is blaming p0rn for his infidelity.

    Once again, THESE PEOPLE.

    • Miss Melissa says:

      Of course. Porn.

      Because it’s those naked female bodies that caused him to lose control.

      Temptresses all.

  84. Petunia says:

    If course he’s on other sites. They sweep the possibilities by putting out feelers and lines to hook a catch! Ashley Madison is the only one hacked this far. I guarantee every douche shit stick exposed there is absolutely on seeking arrangements, match.com, hi I’m a super sad sack of man tits and vinegar.com. The Internet has made it so easy for these bottom feeders to be shady. Upside is the internet also makes it easy to expose them. These men, like Batfleck, once they get away with the first time, their male egos inflate and they think they’re so much smarter and above the sleeve. They get messier and sloppier. Until the truth is revealed. Honestly, a website like Ashley Madison, promising descretion is almost too much for a mans mind to resist. They start there and then get braver. I’m afraid most men we consider trust worthy fell victim to the promise of secrecy. There’s a link where you can enter an email address and see if it matches up to an account on the site. Sorry if that’s already been mentioned. Half of these messy assholes probably didn’t bother to use a throw away email. I’m scared to enter my hubby’s email😁

  85. holly hobby says:

    Well Ma & Pa Duggar how are you going to explain the latest shenanigans from this overfed, pervert? Youthful curiosity my ass. Anna, take the kids and run!

  86. Jayna says:

    What was left of the Duggar family empire has just imploded. No churches are going to pay them for speaking engagements, no books, no nothing. It’s all in shambles, even for the girls, really, Jessa and Jill.

    Josh has no way to be employed. How is he going to support his family? And they don’t believe in birth control, so Anna is going to keep on popping out those babies. What a mess.

    • holly hobby says:

      They’re going to apply for welfare. They’ll just be like the people they looked down their noses at. Hypocrites.

  87. Sea Dragon says:

    “Conservatives want to take the country back to the 1950s, when a man was expected to have sidepieces”.

    -I have a few friends that label themselves conservative- even a couple Jewish family members see themselves as such. I can’t imagine this is what they believe. Is this true?

    • MrsNix says:

      No. It isn’t. I’m a bona fide conservative in many, many areas. I have NOTHING in common with these people. The friends I have who are of like minds in ideology/world view have nothing in common with these people.

      We disagree with the left about how to solve political problems. That doesn’t mean our blood is a different temperature.

  88. Dinah says:

    Being a celebrity used to mean something. It meant you were special. Now it means absolutely nothing.

  89. Ruyana says:

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that Josh is still creeping around in some manner we don’t know about yet. I fear for his little daughters because I doubt very much his cult-raised wife will watch out for them.

  90. Okay, I understand Josh is a child molester, now there is adultry–but WHY did he need 2 A M accounts?