Charlotte Rampling got a “surprise” Oscar nomination for her film 45 Years. I still haven’t seen it, although the reviews for Charlotte in particular are wonderful. Rampling was snubbed for nominations at many awards shows (including the BAFTAs), but the Academy showed her some love… at the same time they were actively snubbing artists of color. So when Charlotte was doing a French radio interview this week, she was asked about the growing controversy of #OscarsSoWhite. And Rampling showed off why she’s so popular with the over-60, overwhelmingly white Academy voters.
Oscar nominee Charlotte Rampling has claimed the current campaign to boycott the 2016 Academy Awards over claims of a diversity deficit is racist to white people. Asked for her take on the current furore over all-white lists of nominees on French Radio network Europe 1 on Friday morning, the British actor did not mince her words.
“It is racist to whites,” she said. “One can never really know, but perhaps the black actors did not deserve to make the final list,” added Rampling. Asked if the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences should introduce quotas, a proposal which no current advocate of increased diversity has mooted, she responded: “Why classify people? These days everyone is more or less accepted … People will always say: ‘Him, he’s less handsome’; ‘Him, he’s too black’; ‘He is too white’ … someone will always be saying ‘You are too’ [this or that] … But do we have to take from this that there should be lots of minorities everywhere?”
When the interviewer explains that black members of the film industry feel like a minority, Rampling replies: “No comment.”
We can all shake our heads and roll our eyes, but HAND TO GOD, this is honestly how many Academy voters feel. And I’d just like to point out how sad/hilarious/insensitive it is for an old white Englishwoman to claim that white people are the victims of racism. It would be like Winston Churchill claiming Indians were racist against him. When a group that has historically been the oppressor of other races suddenly claims to be the victim of racism? It’s almost magical. An angel just got his wings.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
If there was a bingo card for this type of situation, she basically just hit them all.
Yeah, also I wish the media would stop manipulating and twisting words….quotas!? Really? No one has uttered a word about quotas.
Jada Smith never said anything about boycotting the oscars, neither did Spike Lee. But people will STILL put words in their mouths and run with it.
#missingthepoint #biggerpicture
Another Bingo winner: Spike nor Jada said boycott, just I’m not going and I hate how this is becoming a black or white issue when its initial questioning was diversity. Ive seen asian actors speak up and latinos are missing in the equation of not just PEOPLE but of subject matter. Its not just the actors, its about oppty for roles and or jobs or scripts behind the scene roles. Also, Oscars should not be the source of the eer – its the Studios hiring practices, casting agents and talent agents.
Dana is right, Oscars r over done. Problem is studios, filmmakers,casting, boycott them but they won’t. They kiss their ass but Oscars r the problem? It holds no value to me as it did in the beginning. Bunch of over paid actors,whose wearing who n bragging rights. Fight for roles then look for accolades.
Indeed I cried White Feefees Bingo when I saw this…. if she doesn’t get the entirety of her old f*ck Out
lol
Really someone in casting doesn’t hire a white person because they’re TOO WHITE. Excuse me while I laugh right now HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sure Jan whateverr. Now we know how all those old white farts think
Yes- and this whole maybe there were no sufficiently great black/Hispanic/other minority performances would only hold water IF the other nominees were so uniformly great – I mean I love Jennifer Lawrence- but did she really merit a nomination for that mediocre movie- or even her win for silver linings playbook – or even worse Sandra bullock and Julia Roberts wins!!!!!
@Mandy: Yes, Jennifer Lawrence did merit a nomination for her performance in JOY…for carrying the goddamn film. Yes, she did-and the critics agreed.
I disagree about J Law but even if I didn’t, that category isn’t really one with a big snub this year. I think Michael B Jordan was legit snubbed. Lots of people could also validly argue that Will Smith and Idris Elba were snubbed. But I haven’t heard anyone making claims about minority actresses this year. There weren’t really any acting opposite any of the above men. That just goes to show that the problem is much bigger than just the Oscars.
Just to be clear, I do think #oscarssowhite is real and a problem. I just don’t think J Law or any of the other actresses should be thrown in as underserving bc quite simply, there weren’t that many great roles for women this year and that goes double for minority women.
love J. Law, but Joy was a hot mess and she did not save that film. She did not deserve a nom this year, and neither did Kate for that matter, she was the weak link in that film. This is the biggest problem with the academy-it functions like a good ol’ boy network, where they anoint some actors that they love(people who tend to reflect them more than not), and hand them out a nom whether they deserve it or not. Love Meryl, but she gets a nom for sneezing. And I’m thinking Jennifer and Eddie Redmayne will be the new Meryls. It does no one any favors, including the Meryls of the academy, to annoint rather than nominate.
ITA, jojo
Jennifer Lawrence did not merit a nomination. If a movie is mediocre it is mediocre and an actor shouldn’t get a nomination because they carried a mediocre film. I don’t see other actors getting nominations for carrying mediocre films. Just admit that Jennifer Lawrence got a nomination because of who she is and not because of her performance.
About France…
Don’t they forbid things that cover the face for everyone, like helmets, et al on the streets and public places? I understand that also at school wearing blatant religious garnets/ articles is forbidden.
They went through a revolution to get freedom and equality for everyone. They are the reason in so many countries there is a separation of religion and state, thank God. I hope they continue to do so.
My religion used to have great influence in my country, and still has in some states, through politicians, and it becomes ugly fast.
We people are very, very far from perfect, and start with all this divisive sh*t.
About this actress, I do believe her that everyone becomes sort of a minority fast in movie business. She has certainly experienced discrimination just because she has gotten older. I hope things change, but the movie goers have to support films made with minority actors, and not only american movies, I hope. The public needs to demand good, diverse products.
@Ennie: I’m all for freedom of religion and separation of church and state, but it doesn’t seem like banning religious symbols or garments is necessary to get that.
Bloody hell, Charlotte, I think you need to book yourself onto a diversity training course…NOW!!!
She should have just said, “I can’t speak intelligently about that issue because I haven’t read up on it. Now, back to my movie.”
Actors: This is ALWAYS what you should say.
Or “I can’t speak intelligently on the matter, my privilege keeps flapping my mouth all wrong”
Bwahahahaha! This ^^^
+1
Genius!
LOL!!!
Ha!! Brilliant Kip!!
Kip: I’ve contacted the Office for you. It’s now My Privilege Is Flapping My Mouth All Wrong TM
Exactly! !!!
bless this comment. i agree. very few actors are educated enough to actually have something intelligent to say.
Agreed! If they can’t remember all that, a simple “No comment”!
On the plus side for old Charlotte – at least now people are mentioning her name and probably googling it to see who she is.
But that would require self-reflection, and the ability to recognise that your opinions and institutions can be wrong. I doubt she can do that given that if she’s saying this at her age it’s because that’s what she believes full stop.
Someone should ask about feminism and equal pay and complete this unholy mess, so she can dodge like Streep, Winslet, Cotillard, et al. Hell, maybe being part of those mental ranks helps win Oscars?
Maybe she should have started with no comment a little earlier in that interview…
Grrrrrr, it’s that “no comment” that pisses me off the most! On whether or not Black members of the industry *feel* like a minority?? That part isn’t even up for debate. Black members of the industry *are* a minority! After pontificating the rest of this nonsense, that “no comment” comes off as her effectively saying “I’m racist.”
from the article: “someone will always be saying ‘You are too’ [this or that] … But do we have to take from this that there should be lots of minorities everywhere?” Seriously, does she not have eyes? Does she live on some sort of Downton-esque country estate populated only by white people? POC exist and ARE everywhere; they’re not imaginary…
I guess she just doesn’t think they “should” be! (By the way, what does “lots of minorities” mean exactly. I think she misunderstands the word “minority.”)
Sigh.
She made an already weak season of Dexter completely unwatchable. That, coupled with the fact it was the very final season, made me dislike this person. These words she is now saying make me detest her. Bye Felicia.
Thank You! I kept trying to place her and I just couldn’t. Dexter. That is what I was searching for.
Yes I hated her on Dexter! I was just telling Kaiser that I’m not seeing 45 Years now.
She is really excellent in 45 Years, Celebitchy. Honest. Not that I blame you if you boycott her!
@Sixer I’m trying to watch as many best actress films as I can but I’m questioning whether this one is worth my time/money. I’ll definitely see Room though.
In all honesty, if she’s going to say shiznit like this, I wouldn’t spend money on her! Unless you feel a duty as a correspondent to see all the nominated films, I’d wait until it was free on TV!
She was awful in Broadchurch as well. Not a fan.
Yes! That character/storyline was dreadful and she only made it more so.
Sorry, I must disagree: I think she was v good in Broadchurch. Her comments on the Oscars situation were moronic, though.
She may have not worded it well but she essentially said what I agree with – the awards should be about artistic merit and quality of work, not about what colour you happened to be born with – something none of us chose, to the best of my knowledge. In a way, to claim a white actor shouldn’t have been nominated because this or that other colour one should have been, is racist against the former. To me, only Idris was snubbed and it has nothing to do with his colour. He would have been snubbed in my eyes if he was white too. Because acting quality not colour.
How can anything be about “merit” or “quality” when there isn’t equal opportunity? And tons of implicit bias…
Yes! I can’t understand why so many don’t understand this.
It’s baffling that this is going over some people’s head.
Amazing that this isn’t obvious to some people!
Amazing how many people cant wrap their fatass heads around this
Nailed it Kip!
Yes! It all comes back to equal opportunity.
Your circular logic was just awarded its own orbit. Congrats!
Oh Pinky. You and your bon mots are beautiful 🙂
I can’t decide if you’re trolling. To the best of your knowledge nobody chooses their skin color? Well, if you’re not sure about that … I don’t think there’s much more to say.
Yeahno.
@Mary-Alic
I am going to repost this article for your benefit, please read to get a deeper understanding of the complex issue at hand. Artistic merit is not just movies that tackle white man facing adversity.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-et-st-oscars-mcnamara-notebook-white-hollywood-20160115-column.html
In a dream world, no factors come into play but performance. In reality, a million other mitigating factors–many tightly linked to socioeconomic inequalities and cultural prejudices–come into play.
Why can’t we just be color blind? Because LIFE isn’t color blind. Race has no intrinsic value. It means nothing in terms of how it shapes your capacities or talents as a person. But it means everything because your race determines how other people perceive you. And when somebody suddenly says “why can’t we all just be colorblind?” what they’re really doing is negating that reality. They’re refusing to acknowledge how race has shaped your lived experience. It’s almost worse than overt racism because they’re effectively erasing you. It’s the worst! She’s the worst. Dumb old person is a product of their times. Surprise, surprise.
I keep thinking of the Better Off Ted episode where the building installs an automatic security system that doesn’t see darker skin. Invisible. Dependent on those whose skin the system recognizes. Implicitly unequal in that environment.
Only a white person has the privilege to say, “Cant we all be color blind? ”
This actress is a total jerk and it really angers me when whites (and I’m a blonde, blue eyed white woman) claim people are racist against them. STFU, white racists.
I guess I define “colorblindness” differently. To me, it is about being able to judge a peson on their merits as a human being and simply not giving a single sh*t about their skin color, ethnicity, religion, etc., but that does NOT mean disregarding the impact their race has had on their existence. I almost think both are necessary in order to be truly colorblind, because it means you acknowledge their struggles but treat them as an equal to you.
I don’t know if that makes sense or if I am articulating this well at all. I guess I’ll just say that their experiences with race do matter to me, but do not impact how I perceive them as human beings. I like you, or I don’t, and it’s based entirely on whether you are a decent human being.
@Mary-Alic- you wrote: “She may have not worded it well but she essentially said what I agree with – the awards should be about artistic merit and quality of work, not about what colour you happened to be born with – something none of us chose, to the best of my knowledge.”
Yeah, that is so not what she was saying.
There’s always some choice. Ask Michael Jackson or that Rachel woman.
Ask Michael Jackson? Do you have a ouija board on hand?
I said this on another thread the other day, but not sure if it was in reply to you, Mary-Alic. Either way, you should investigate the concept of social closure:
“Basically, social closure refers to processes of drawing boundaries, constructing identities, and building communities in order to monopolize scarce resources for one’s own group, thereby excluding others from accessing them.”
It’s NOT about individual performances. It’s about the systems and structures of the entertainment industry being established over a long time in a way that ensures the self-replication of the dominant group (white people) so that they are able to monopolise those scarce resources (Academy awards).
Yes! But I don’t really consider oscars a survival resource, rather they are
Luxuries…. Like if you’re already on the level that you’re considered snubbed you’re set for life in financial comfort unless you get an addiction problem
I think social closure is often actually more effective as a theory when it’s NOT applied to survival resources. Because we don’t actually notice all the sneaky ways the closure mechanisms work.
So with Oscars, for example, the voting Academy membership eligibility is either earning a nomination or by vouching from two existing members.
It seems reasonable that an elite group would have entry criteria. But if you actually stop and think about that, you can see how it operates as an instrument of self-replication. You’re X times more likely to be nominated if you are white. And then you get to join and do the nominating yourself. You need two existing members to propose you in order to join. But the existing members are almost all white and in white social networks. See?
Ah Sixer, I genuinely adore the Hell out of you.
Sixer, I appreciate the theorizing. Institutional racism is a major source of the problem, and it’s hidden. Many, many whites are unaware of their privilege, and delving into the institutions and the traditions that reinforce this privilege is key to elimination of it.
Thanks, Marty and wolfie.
I first studied social closure when I was 17 (and, it being Britain, it was in the context of social class rather than race, but it works for any area), and you know when suddenly something clicks in your head and you actually GET IT? That happened.
I suddenly understood how all the various inequalities perpetuated themselves and consequently how hard it is to turn things around. Because everybody wants to look at whether an individual is or isn’t deserving. But it’s not about individuals. Individuals are the collateral damage of the system.
wolfie: yes. Equality feels like oppression to the privileged. As Charlotte certainly illustrates.
@sixer
THIS COMMENT. +1000000
Sixer, you have such sexy cognitions. You’ve learnt me much this morning.
PS: I’m enjoying Auntie’s bite-sited Dickensian bits.
To bring your PS into topic, Nutballs, you’ll note that Dickensian has Little Nell and the Artful Dodger both played by black kids. So the next time some fool says, “Oh, British TV has all those classic adaptations and so obviously there are fewer POC: you can’t have a black Lizzie Bennett, can you?” – we can tell them to eff right off!
Save yourself a paragraph typing that and just say these words:
“Black actors simply are not as good as white actors, that’s why they haven’t been awarded for two years. They simply are not good enough.”
There, I just saved you a whole pile of BS.
Eternal Side-eye, what you are saying to save us bullshit, is entirely untrue. Is this helping?
Sure it is wolfie. I just summed up Mary-Alice’s entire comment in a few sentences. Plus I feel like it’d be more genuine if people just phrased their opinions on minorities just happening to repeatedly not be worthy of awards in a more factual way.
Thank you! I also believe the only black actor truly snubbed was Idris Elba. I hate how this has become an issue about how black actors should have been nominated. This is truly an issue regarding the lack of opportunities for black actors in the industry.
Who were snubbed this year ? Elba,Shannon ,Ridley Scott and Sorkin.
They were nod at GG,SAG/DGA/WGA,Critic Choice and BAFTA ( SAG best ensemble is also an indicator)
Oh Really? Like all the movies and the artists who are nominated actually are the best! At this point the oscars are a joke!
So confident in your opinion that you have to justify it, twice.
White… but not privileged. Mary-Alic, I’m honestly going to try to explain this to you. Privileged doesn’t mean that your family has money, or you grew up in a nice house or got to eat out at fancy restaurants in this context.
Privileged means that the police don’t use racial slurs when they speak to you, it means that no one ever assumed you were a criminal due to the color of your skin, no one told you your hair was not ‘nice’ because of its texture, no one assumed you are an alcoholic or drug user just because of the color of your skin… and on and on.
I (also white) have also, on occasion, experienced racist remarks from other races. This does not mean I do not have white privilege. White privilege does not mean that my life is easy, or that opportunities are handed to me.
Sometimes an easier way to see it is like this: there are many kinds of privileges. Like male privilege. Men are privileged because they are seen as more capable by society (for example who would you rather help you change a tire?), men are seen as smarter decision makers (how many CEOs are male?), men are seen as stronger and better than women in many many ways. But, as a woman, this is not true and men do not do anything to deserve this privilege. It is much the same with white privilege.
I am not trying to attack you, and I actually understand where you are coming from. That is why I bothered to type all this out– because you are smart and you can understand.
Yep. I never think about my race when going about my business, because I’m white, so I never need to. The television, movies, the judiciary, the government, the police – they all look like me. If I apply for work, I may need to consider that I’m female, and that may influence my odds negatively, but my race won’t, so I don’t think about it.
What’s interesting is that poor people notice their poverty, and their gender if women, but they don’t notice other ways in which they are privileged. None of us do unless we really reflect on it, I suspect. I’ve known so many men insist they aren’t privileged because they are poor and so feminism is bullshit. And white people make the same argument on race.
The problem with privilege of this sort is it is invisible. And while class, and gender, and disability are all areas that affect a person’s privilege level, a white woman is going to benefit from her skin colour, just as a disabled white man would from his skin and gender. People arguing that they are in some other way(s) marginalised and therefore racism doesn’t affect them needs to reflect on intersectionality, I think.
Even poor white people know privilege? Ye gods. On what twisted, psychopathic planet? What is the world coming to?
How is it awarded on merit? They often nominate on reputation, not merit- ask Meryl or Jennifer or Kate for instance. They often nominate on who “ran the best race”–that’s why there’s so many Harvey Weinstein jokes about him. They often nominate on simply whose name they know best-many academy voters go on record to say they don’t even watch a fraction of the movies they are supposed to, they just pick the names they know best. Nothing is wrong with telling the academy how they go about their process is flawed-it is. They need a more diverse voting body that were push boundaries and possibilities, this is what happens every time in any instance.
@RR just curious. You say it’s freedom from racist comments but then you say you have had racist comments directed at you. Then you say it’s not about having things handed to you/benefitting directly from color….so what is it, then? It’s clearly not freedom from remarks or direct financial/health etc gain so….that leaves nothing?
I’ve taken many, many women’s studies and community/racial studies courses and read countless books…but honestly, I’ve never bought into it. Sorry. I just don’t. If I’m so privileged, who’s going to pay this stack of bills while I’ve been job hunting for over a year, fully qualified but struggling to be chosen? I keep my head down and follow the rules to minimize any government or police interaction, but I’ve had them and they have by no means always been kind. I’ve been screamed at by a red-faced officer clearly taking some other thing out on me, etc. I have a plethora of cousins, nieces, aunts/uncles, stepfamily and friends from all races that are more traveled, wear fancier clothes, etc than me and I don’t see them struggling at all due to race alone. sorry- I just don’t buy it and I never will.
You don’t know about your privilege because you don’t know the sort of subtle discrimination or unconscious bias that PoC face everyday. I am Asian American and for most of my childhood, people asked me where I was from. When I said L.A., they would ask again, NO where are you from? Again, i get it. I understand that this may be simple curiosity but from the outset, I’m treated a bit differently, as “other” and that is alienating. I also have to work harder at simply being recognized – not because of overt racism, but because people just don’t “see” me sometimes. Again, I’m not claiming that it’s intentional racism. It’s an unconscious bias that people have toward their own. However, I’m not African American, and I bet that I would experience exponentially greater bias in other ways if I were. I will even admit that I might experience a bit of “privilege” in the sense that there may be subconscious stereotypes that people have about Asians that are sometimes good. But if I were white? All of these nuances or bias wouldn’t occur to me, because I would just go about my world without any thought as to how others are perceiving or subconsciously stereotyping me. I understand that white women face certain biases, and older, or not attractive or heavy white women, even more. But, if you have experienced anything of that sort, multiply that by about 50 to understand what it feels like to be in the minority.
Thank you for the thought-provking discussion, everyone!
There are layers upon layers of institutionalized racism contributing to the production chain leading to the Academy Awards nominations.
Which films get made, which films get funded, who is cast, who is nominated = all subjective choices.
Do the selections come from an egalitarian pool? Nope.
Do the films reflect my taste? Not usually.
Does not getting a nomination indicate being “snubbed”? NO. (No more than my having a dog would necessarily imply or definitively mean that I dislike cats.)
I would never vote for an elected official based on gender. I vote based on issues, intellect, and integrity.
I realize awards are offered as popularity recognition, rather than for merit. How can we change that process? How can the pool be broadened and minds used to knee-jerking be expanded to a fuller scope of consideration?
It is certainly disappointing that USA top-level (meaning broad-reaching) cultural industry gatekeepers supply content within a myopically narrow scope, and populate (and perpetuate) our landscape with a “1%” mentality of diversity range.
If I were an actor of color and were nominated, I sure would be wondering, ‘was I nominated because of the excellence of my performance or was I nominated as the token person of color? Ugh!’
Conversely, now that this issue has a larger audience, if I were a caucasion actor and were nominated, I would be wondering ‘was I nominated because of the excellence of my performance or was I nominated because of the color of my skin? Is the color of my skin distracting people from the quality of my performance? Was I rubber-stamped because I happen to fit the narrow scope of norms befitting institutional racism? Ugh!’
I have no idea how many actors of color there are comparatively to quantity of caucasion actors overall. All things being equal, there should be more inclusion of diversity range in the cultural output of an industry as a whole. Do African films get made with more white actors than non-white actors? Do Chinese films get made with as many white actors as non-white actors? Do American films predominantly feature white actors because there are more white actors in America? Is that indicative of racism or of who happens to be in the pool?
Unfortunately, racism still exists. And using a broad platform to call it out and denounce it is a responsible action to take, up to a point – meaning, that using a celebration of the arts is perhaps not an appopriate forum in which to proliferate activism for a non-arts related cause. Richard Gere hijacking the Oscars to decry the plight of Tibetans, for instance. As I recall, Gere was a PRESENTER that time, not even a nominated winner, and he misappropriated the job he was asked to do andpushed his own agenda. That is not OK. Tibetans deserve representation, but, at the Academy Awards? That is no more appropriate than protesters disrupting a classroom to advance whatever non-school-related agenda they may have, or for Uncle So-and-So to stand up at someone’s wedding reception to tell his personal diatribe of how the Holocaust never happened. Not the right forum. If an award recipient wants to use the 30-second allotment of thank you speech time to mention his dog, sister, and a cause he is passionate about, I’m fine with that. Respect the platform, use the platform, know where the boundaries are and how to expand them without doing collateral damage.
Exposing racism is an important effort to make and decry. Who are our unifiers, our civil rights cultural leaders today? Who will, and can, temper and inform the resentful and fearful masses?
That’s a fair summary of questions to be answered to parameterise racism in the US, the world, the western world or however one wants to scope it. However, I disagree with your commentary on the stage at which to launch the case for this discussion. Where do you want to launch it? On a Tuesday afternoon of say June 13 outside MGM studios? Sort of a half witted way, no? If you’re serious, you pick a venue and a time that has a lot of eyeballs on it – such as at a celebration of the arts event.
On to point two, why is the poor representation of people of colour in the arts awards pool not connected to the arts? Why is the poor representation of people of colour in the arts world as a whole not connected to the arts?
I agree with you that racism is a global problem – certainly not confined to the arts. But it is not disconnected from it either. I see no reason why the arts world should not start a serious introspection on the composition of their world in the same way that academia, industry, engineering and science worlds are doing – not that more doesn’t need to happen in all those arenas but all been trying to address the due lack of diversity in their composition and trying things – some half-baked and many even ill-advised – to course correct. So I see no reason that that introspection within the arts not be triggered by a perhaps stilted and skewed arts award event
Why is it racist against white people? Are they not being included? Or are you saying a minority would win only because of their color, not their talent? I think you’re saying a minority should not be included just because of their skin tone? No one is talking about quotas, except for this article. But I think my mixed husband said something really profound about affirmative action. He said even if someone who was not as qualified got in because of their race….how many other people have gotten jobs because who they know or what sorority they went to, or because their dad’s a big executive. How many examples of favoritism and nepotism have you seen? So why is it so bad for a disadvantaged minority to get a helping hand?
Personally, this is why I think that whites should be more involved, Snowflake. Why are they not flooding to the areas where protest is made? Great change comes about by protest marches, and sit-ins. When diverse and common people come together, one is making history, and culture changes. It’s such an empowering feeling, for example, to march in a gay rights parade, being straight. There is such a feeling of being on the side of justice and truth. I remember the Civil Rights era, and believe that black people have so much to be proud of – to stand up to fire hoses, and walk to work, instead of riding buses. Every social justice movement in America has sprung from the emancipation of the black soul, as noble as any white.
Forty years ago, I took a class in Anthropology where we studied the black man in the inner city. These problems still exist(!!!), perhaps in worse forms, because of the additional burdens of the criminal justice system, and backward whites in law enforcement who still think that persecuting people is okay. Ultimately, social justice cannot prevail, until we pour money into the schools in our inner cities, in the form of many caring teachers and great books. Classroom sizes would have to be very small, because these particular children have so many unmet needs to attend to. I’m a teacher, and I believe that racism can be eradicated in many instances, in our classrooms (in minds and hearts), as well as in vigorous political activity. It’s so nourishing to be a part of social change. I encourage whites to participate in all social justice movements, particularly #BlackLivesMatter, at this time. It is possible to make a difference!
I agree with you 100% – basically the only one here. While she may have ruffled some feathers it amazes me this is the only site I have seen crucifying people who have the guts to stand up against Jada/Spike/Michael Moore etc…..
Awards are done on merit, not color. Should we just all give everyone a little mini-Oscar for participation?????
The Oscars are not now and never have been only about merit. This is not about “mini Oscars for participation.” How about everyone who says that blacks are “whining” actually watch all these movies with these overlooked performances. Then, and only then, can you come back and speak.
It’s annoying how many people say it’s all about merit without actually verifying the merits of the various potential honorees. Blacks are not asking for “participation” medals (as if they were allowed to participate as fully as their talent allows). They are asking for “merit” medals, and some of them deserve it!
@pinacolada, it boggles my mind that people can’t see their white privilege. If you are open-minded at all, please read “The invisible knapsack of white privilege,” an essay by Peggy Mcintosh. It explains it better than I can. But a few more examples – when I do well, no one tells me I’m a credit to my race and when I go into a shop, no one follows me around, expecting me to steal.
It’s a great essay. Thanks!
I agree with you….seriously. People should not blame the Oscar Jury but more people like Smith and Clooney and Witherspoon and who ever owns own companies. It starts with the right script for suitable actors and actresses. I watched almost every Oscar Contender and I do not feel as if someone was snubbed. This discussion is so exhausting. I am not Black. I am not white. I am a human. If people want to point fingers at then start to find the people who could change something. Btw how the hell would you feel if you were nominated this year because you know that your performance was great but everyone is talking about this as if your own performance was shite and not comparable to Idris one? Fassbender? Great. Redmayne? Great. The only one which is questionable is Damon…. Every other actor deserved that nomination.
Oh noes. On behalf of Britland, I’m sorry, USans. *goes off cringing*
Not your fault and sooner or later some American will say something stupid(LOL).
Well, they have already had that twit from the movie Clueless (ain’t that the truth) saying a load of similar bollocks – so its evens.
Michael Caine told BBC Breakfast this morning that black people should just be “patient” and their day will come. I kid you not.
Oh no really? Is this an age thing, like both Caine and Rampling are just behind the times on this issue and don’t get it, or maybe they’re both losing their marbles. Same with Roger Moore and the Bond casting.
I was about to defend Rampling on a previous thread, this is really disappointing.
‘Fraid so. But he has got form for non-progressive views, shall we say?
Oh, Michael. Michael, Michael, Michael.
And here I was begrudging the silence of white members of Hollywood’s elite. With Rampling and now Caine, it turns out it’s even worse when they speak!
Sixer, I do believe you.
As a woman in Banking, I have been hearing the same message now for the last 10 years. Don’t make a noise, relax, your day will come. The majority of CEO’s in the FTSE 100 are still men and women like me are still trying to circumvent the ‘glass ceiling’.
Loved your explanation on Social Closure BTW. Can you recommend a good book on it?
Oh yeah. I jut read his comment. Terrible.
Damn, I know I shouldn’t be surprised and yet…sigh. I always expect/hope for the best from people I consider disappointed and am then harshly disappointed.
BritAfrica: you’d probably need a sociology text book. But the idea of social closure was first put forward by Max Weber. You could also look up Frank Parkin, who analysed the British class structure using the idea (critiquing Marx that it’s all “the economy, stupid”). I did read a paper on the Australian treatment of First People that specifically used social closure in terms of race but I don’t recall the author, sorry. I am sure there are many more recent papers than anything I’ve read if you’re looking for gender-based closures in business in operation.
Methinks she’s just forfeited whatever chance she had at getting a golden boy with those ignorant words.
She’s trending on twitter and in a not-so-good-way.
Big surprise. I really think no Europeans or Brits or Australians should ever opine on race in America.
It would be like Winston Churchill claiming the Indians were racist when they set out to fill administrative and government spots with Indians only. How dare they not simply look for the best candidate, regardless of colonial history? Durrrr durrrrr.
Well, that’s offensive. Maybe we can all stay on our respective sides of the ocean and not talk to each other at all. You can talk to American Stacey Dash, she seems to have a solid grasp on the topic. And just to be a bit of an a**, Europeans or Brits? Really? Maybe we also shouldn’t talk about geography.
Guess you don’t know any Brits. Many do not consider selves European and are actually quite offended if it’s suggested.
Aww, look who’s trying to be superior. You do know that that doesn’t change the fact that the UK is part of Europe and the EU?
I said Europeans OR Brits! I live in a British ex-pat community.
I think anyone would do well to avoid talking about racial politics in countries within which they have not really lived. America’s race problems are complex, and not the same as
Britain’s or France’s, say. If she were slightly less clueless, she would realize that NO serious American star would make that argument in the press. Stacey Dash is not one such actor.
I think ppl from other countries wrongly feel because they see some of America’s racial tensions play out on film, they somehow understand them. That’s how you get moronic Austrians or Dutch throwing the n-word around American stars.
Yes, you said that. Brits are Europeans though. That’s like me saying Americans or Africans or Californians.
You assume we get our information from HW movies which is your second rather offensive statement. We do have books over here. We are also well aware that every country’s race problems are different and sometimes you can’t even use that term because Germany, for example, doesn’t have a “race problem” per se. I will always acknowledge where my knowledge of a topic ends and where I get my information from, that doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion just because I haven’t lived there. Everyone seems to have an opinion on Greece’s economic crisis, for example. VERY few people have actually lived there but that doesn’t mean I won’t have a discussion with them about it.
And do you really think being an American automatically qualifies you to talk about race in that country? Please. How many Americans have you met who don’t know sh*t? And how many “Europeans”?
Greenieweenie
1) expat communities are probably not the best to judge by! They don’t tend to hold the settled view of their home country, which is one reason they may be expats in the first place!
2) if you wish to differentiate between the UK and other European countries, you might want to use “continental Europeans”. Then we’ll know what you mean and you won’t look as though your geography needs some work. 😉
3) but best not to do that where Charlotte Rampling is concerned because she is pretty much dual national – she is fully bilingual and holds a mix of British and French cultural assumptions, having lived and worked in France for pretty much half her life, including childhood and education.
Aside from all that, we have one point of agreement. We both have a negative view of what she said!
this is getting ridiculous – I have spent an equal amount of time in two countries Canada and Britain -what does that make me. Both countries have a broad racial population due to immigration both historical and now
From my perspective opportunities are created by whoever was born into an environment which provides access to education and and money.There was a time in Britain when access to arts training was available through the grant system which was removed by the the government basically a conservative bunch which works to hang on their money and on behalf of big business and does not give a fig about the arts.Since then the arts as represented by the Oscars has become pretty much money led.
Canada was pretty much the same but the education system which is open to anyone allowed for more social movement.
My feeling is that this and observations from travelling is pretty universal-it is only the level of wealth that differs from continent to continent.
As for the Oscars they have never been truly about merit and more about money-if they were we would see more small innovative films included which include people from all backgrounds.
It’s not just those places. There isn’t a single country in this world that doesn’t have any type of race and/or gender/sex related issues.
Of course not, it’s just easier for English speaking actors (often from those places) to get work in Hollywood and sometimes even be mistaken for Americans. My point is that they are not.
M.A.F so agree. I do think the artistic merit versus racial bias has merit even if she put it very badly and had no time to expand and we know how the press love to build up things like this for click bait. But at best or worst in created an interesting discussion on this page
Last time I checked the oscars wasn’t exculive to just Americans. People from all parts of the world actually act, direct and create movies as well you know…
OK, I’ll let Idris Elba know that he’s not allowed to have an opinion on not being nominated for an Oscar because of systemic bias.
He shouldn’t go to great lengths opining about the dynamics between black American actors and the Academy/industry/govt, no. He is not fully part of those dynamics. I would value his opinion on what it means to be a black British actor in Hollywood, though.
I am Indian and I cannot tell you how mad Winston Chruchill makes me.
I found it really disappointing he was voted Greatest Briton in a poll a few years ago when he was blatantly racist, that part of his character keeps being overlooked.
Not by me, I voted for Beatrix Potter. 🙂
He may well have been a good wartime leader but he had nothing else to recommend him whatsoever. From Gallipoli, through bombing “natives” to ensure colonial obedience, to getting the Royal Navy to open fire on striking British men – he was NOT the Greatest Briton.
I disagree.
Churchill wasn’t a good wartime leader, he was a great wartime leader. Could he have been more forward thinking on race/gender/equality issues? Sure, but so could any leader of that era. The white race was very dominant then and nobody could see that changing anytime soon so it wasn’t an immediate issue. I mean, they were still going about conquering places and annexing people for heaven’s sake. Such were the times.
But to me, what he did in the war, the sheer confidence and sheer belief that we MUST not surrender, was second to none. And CornyBlue, I do understand where you are coming from, but if Britain hadn’t won that war, trust me, the world would have been a much darker place for ALL of us for a very very long time!
@Britafrica, he may have been a great wartime leader but that doesn’t excuse his bigotry and racism and no not everybody thought that way then, even his peers thought he was a bigot, Baldwin was warned not to appoint him:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html
@ Becky, never said it did, nothing excuses bigotry. I am saying however, given the times, it wasn’t the prevailing issue as it now is for many leaders. It did not take centre stage but now it does. Different times…
I still believe that I personally, stood a better chance of surviving being born in London because Britain won that war and not the Nazis. And that win was definitely orchestrated by Churchill.
A) Brits are European. B) The Oscars do not have only American’s nominated, so it is not just an American problem. C) There are other British people, not only Churchill.
Err….Greeniewienie, we Brits ARE Europeans. The last time I checked, Britain resides in Europe and our PM David Cameron, is currently at an EU summit in Prague or somewhere….
Australian’s don’t opine about race. Race – as a concept – is usually an American thing. Race, in all actuality, is a fallacious term that has no substance at all. In Australia, we may discuss ethnicity, but race? No.
She should still get the Best Actress.
agree she should not be ruled out – you should not be penalised for you opinion as soon as that happens we loose the right to freedom of speech-
I love her work was hoping she would win…. but i can’t with this.. so disappointing.. SMH..
Yep. AND, on a putprely superficial note, that hair color she is sporting is awful. She’d be better just going natural.
The problem isn’t the Oscars it’s the bad roles that minority actors are offered. I feel like this Oscar controversy is overshadowing the real issue.
I get what you saying and the problem of diversity is all over Hollywood but the issue that people are presenting is that in a year where there were performance worthy of being nominated, the nominations were still white. Beasts Of No Nation, Benicio del Toro and Ryan Coogler definitely were worthy of a nomination.
Thank you!
Yup. Viola Davis says just that.
+1, the oscars just make the problem very obvious
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but as Cynthia said above me, there were a few movies this year with strong performances, so the lack of nomination(s) leaves you scratching your head. In years past I could understand the lack of nominations because there just wasn’t much to choose from, but there were actual choices this year that could have been nominated.
*Idris Elba gets noms from almost every other guild but not the Academy? I’ve heard the Netflix argument but that didn’t seem to be a problem for other awards guilds.
*I know there are problems/controversy with the movie Straight Outta Compton. But it got a SAG Cast Award nomination and a Producer’s Guild Award nomination for Best Picture. The PGA is a very prestigious guild who are pretty picky in whom they nominate, and they have an excellent track record of their winner matching Oscar and their nominees matching the Oscar nominees. It is very, very rare for a movie to get a SAG Cast nomination and a PGA nomination and miss out on a Best Picture nomination at the Oscars. I can’t think of any reason it missed other than it’s considered a “black” movie and Academy voters refused to watch it.
*Michael B Jordan was the heart and soul of Creed. Just my opinion, but he was far better than Eddie Redmayne, Michael Fassbender, and Matt Damon were.
*Benicio del Toro was amazing in Sicario and he was overlooked entirely. Instead they waste nominations on Christian Bale (who wasn’t even the best actor in The Big Short) and Tom Hardy.
We need more diverse voices in Hollywood at all levels – studios, writing, directing, producing, production companies, etc.
It’s not about bad roles, it’s about the industry. It’s very, very male, and very, very white. Actors are getting all the attention right now but it’s WORSE behind the camera.
The problem is not easy to fix as it’s not illegal, but bringing the issue of implicit bias to the forefront is important. Its a bit like the favoritism that men get in old boy networks in corporate America. The Oscars is basically a popularity contest, as we all know, and it means that the people in power get to recognize people like them – or people they want to have sex with. Unfortunately i bet this is why only young pretty actresses (like JLaw) – not older women – are often awarded the Oscar while it is the older white guys who often receive Oscar. Charlotte Rampling should realize that she’s not getting any award b/c she’s not someone the old white guys want to sex up. (OF course there are exceptions like Eddie Redmayne, young white guy, or maybe he’s in the category of people the old white guys want to have sex with).
In a way, I can see how it happens. It’s not even conscious – it’s just that they don’t think about being fair or judging ALL the talent out there. I believe many white people just don’t see or recognize people of color. I get that, even as a person of color! And you know what? it will change if/when audiences start to demand more movies with PoC; when there are more PoC than white consumers; and/or the Academy starts to be populated by more PoC. Until then, this dialogue and awareness is good, as it makes people aware of unconscious biases.
agree she should not be ruled out – you should not be penalised for you opinion as soon as that happens we loose the right to freedom of speech-
Yup. I don’t think the issue is about merit as much as it is about keeping stereotypes alive. Before these 2 years, several actors of color were recognised. The great majority of them for playing slaves, maids, thugs, and all the uncultured, violent, loud-mouthed stereotypes of modern black people.
The message the academy is sending, is black people are most beleivable when playing these kind of roles. Play anything outside of that circle, and it’s just hard to believe. Heck, not even Marthin Luther King is worthy of a nom.
lets not forget those who have been nominated like Chiwetel Ejiofor who played a character with pride and commitment and was amazing even if he did loose out to another brilliant performance
In a way, I understand what she meant. Now everyone who got nominated is pressured into feeling he took place of someone black and does not deserve the nomination.
There was always debate about “who got snubbed” by the Academy, but now only talk is about “which black actor/actress got snubber” by the Academy.
The actors should stop put so much power in the hands of the Academy. It´s just bunch of people who were put in a position of saying who is worthy and who is not …
Except the Academy is made up of industry professionals. They are the industry, not just a random ‘bunch of people’. To win Oscars is to have the stamp of approval on your film, which, naturally, production companies/actors/directors will race after because it automatically means more people will go see your film because it has an ‘Academy approved’ sticker on it. That means you make more money, you get awards buzz, and you can go back to your production company the next time you have a project to make and you instantly have more credibility to get it made.
For the Academy to be 93% white and 78% male means there is a certain kind of film which is always going to win awards there, and so that kind of film is perpetuated as the ‘good’, ‘high culture’ movie. In recent years, that kind of film has been the historical biopic about a white figure (c.f. Lincoln, George VI, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerburg, Marilyn Monroe, Julian Assange, Margaret Thatcher, Chris Kyle, Stephen Hawking, Alan Turing, etc. etc.). Good luck casting a black actor in any prominent role in that movie.
This is what makes no sense to me when people say ‘oh well, it’s not the Academy’s fault there are not good roles for BME actors’.
I understand the impact Academy has … I am just questionning how relevant it still is. The non-existent diversity within the Academy is undisputable …
You are mentioning movies that ride a wave of “high culture”, but for me 12 year of slave was exactly that kind of movie as well. I still do not understand why Lupita got the Oscar as her performance was flat and not memorable for me. However that year, no one was thinking for a second, that someone else would win for Supporting Actress. Was is positive discrimination? To fill-in a black award winner quota? How can she be sure? – That is the same, like I am saying the white people this year (on any other) have to question their spot on the list of nominees.
I do not think the nominees have a hard sleep over this to be honest, but this whole situation is starting to smell like “next year #OscarsAllBlack” and that would not be good as well.
I hope I explained my comment better … as I was not meaning to put white nominees in some position of victims. That would be foolish.
As a white person, I can handle a few white people having to take five seconds out of their day to wonder if they deserved that Oscar/that second interview/that promotion.
I do not get why that is such a hard concept for some people.
THIS. I’m fine with that. 100%.
Seriously!
Me too.
Well I don´t think they will loose their sleep over it as well 😉
Lady…please.
She just lost my support for Best Actress.
And I agree she’s a perfect example of a group of people who occupy space in an institution that is out of touch with the world.
Same here and I was so happy when she got the nomination. Now it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and I simply cannot support someone who makes asinine statements like this.
What a disappointment she turned out to be, I thought she was more enlightened than this.
And that is all #OscarsSoWhite the campaign achieved. It made the nominees feel guilty and defensive. Now they have to explain why they are attending the Oscars. The implication is that they didn’t deserve their nominations. And that is wrong.
Nah, we’re also having a conversation about the member rolls of the Academy and more of an awareness of who the gatekeepers are in mainstream Hollywood award recognition.
Thank you btw for replying to my question in the other thread. Sorry I didn’t reply there.
Nope, it achieved bringing attention to the injustice of an awards season and processes of Hollywood that unfairly favor whites. It also revealed true colors of others and extreme defensiveness is usually the first sign of a guilty conscience.
nope…it showed how many of these Oscars nominees and Oscar related people are unaware of their white privilege. Compare what she said with what Mark Ruffalo said…It’s great that this subject it’s out there since it’s only the truth.
Honestly Fahri…. For days now I’ve read your posts which all seem to be so defensive in face of these issues. I don’t understand why you seem to constantly defend those who try to pretend that institutionslized racism doesn’t exist. First you were offended for all the wonderful old white men in your family, then you posted saying that black people don’t value education (bcz A.A. Would rather be athletes or rappers), and now this among other very offensive things.
You are going to say that you are not racist but it is clear that you have a serious bias against black people and other minorities. You only defend your own, are offended when people point out injustices, and blame the victims. I’ve held my tongue on your posts but I believe I’ve read enough in the last couple of days… The sad part is that the type of bias you show is based in complete ignorance. You seem to lack empathy.
Sorry we offended you and the academy by pointing out how you single out minorities in order to stay at the top of the food chain and feel good about yourselves. Sorry we offended you by pointing out that we are offended. Give my most sincere apologies to the wonderful white old men in your family. I’ll be waiting for your apologies to the wonderful old black men in my husband’s family who were descendants of slaves and still working on plantations a couple of decades ago. SMH
Thank you debee. 100% agree with your statement.
I think I feel defensive because there is a lot of generalization going on both sides. I grew up in the USSR and I certainly didn’t get any advantages from my “white privilege” I am being accused of. Some of my ancestors were slaves (in Russian Empire slavery was only abolished in 1862).
To me every single American is privileged, and the US is the modern day Rome with its citizens being far more privileged than anybody else regardless of color of their skin. Americans, every single one of us, are actually oppressors towards the rest of the world and we refuse to acknowledge it.
The bottom line is – not all white people are bad, not all white people benefited from white privilege, not all white people have it better than black people. And generalizations achieve nothing but divide us.
@Fahri, so you were born in the USSR were you brought up there or in the US? The USSR and the former Eastern Bloc never had the immigration that European countries had, there’s a theory that these countries are more intolerant because of this. Anti-gay law in Russia and Hungary’s reaction to refugees are 2 examples.
Farhi, please don’t pull the “Dear Muslima” and try to claim that inequality existing elsewhere in the world means that Americans don’t have any right to fight against inequalities at home. You posit that:
1) You didn’t benefit from white privilege because you grew up in the USSR.
While it’s true that the Soviet government was politically neutral to Africans, it’s not true that Russia and ex-USSR countries don’t discriminate against blacks. Amnesty International considers racism in Russia, Ukraine and a number of provinces to be a humanitarian disaster. Half of the black population in Moscow have been physically attacked because of their race, and don’t even get me started on current attitudes towards Jews and Caucasians. You didn’t mention which specific country or racial background you were from and I realise the situation may have been different where you grew up, but white Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians etc. absolutely do have white privilege relative to the black (or other POC) citizens of those countries.
2) That having slaves for ancestors means that you could not be privileged relative to black Americans.
I’m from poor Saxon stock, and my ancestors were serfs (slaves)… in the 1300s. My pasty British ass is certainly not discriminated against because of that history and I would consider it extremely disrespectful to bring that up as if it were a comparable problem to the hangover of slavery-related racism faced by black people in the US. Regardless of whether you grew up poor, or under an oppressive regime, your life was still easier than it would have been if you had been in those circumstances and also black. Please read John Scalzi’s “Lowest Difficulty Setting” for an excellent explanation of intersectional privilege.
No-one is saying that we white people are bad. But we ARE oblivious, because the discrimination happens where we don’t see it. It happens in board meetings and shopping mall security offices and in the privacy of people’s heads. Just because we’re not on the receiving end of it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
@Farhi nobody is saying that all White people are bad. You speak of a lot of generalization going on but you’re doing the same thing. And to say that every single American is privileged is false. If you’re referring to American foreign policy when you mention that every single American is an oppressor to the rest of the world I can get that, but was that what you were referring to really? Because there are lots of Americans who are oppressed by their very own politicians and are no better than people overseas who are also oppressed by their own. Lots of Americans who also live below the poverty line, who are barely surviving, who are in fear of their lives because corrupt systems are out to get them. You continue to be defensive and state not all White people are bad while regurgitating the same arguments made by people who disregard other people’s feelings. THAT’s more divisive than anything.
“No-one is saying that we white people are bad. But we ARE oblivious, because the discrimination happens where we don’t see it. It happens in board meetings and shopping mall security offices and in the privacy of people’s heads. Just because we’re not on the receiving end of it doesn’t mean it’s not there. ”
I know discrimination happens, I am not arguing that it doesn’t. I’ve seen plenty of it everywhere. Races against races, ethnicities against ethnicities. There is definitely discrimination in Russia towards darker skinned ethnicities. And it is in the open and not disguised as in the US. There is also a lot of anti-Semitism. Sorry if I gave an impression that I deny it and that set people of.
Wow, I guess you all pegged me now. No, I am not Muslim, I am an atheist. And I am a mix of something at least 4 ethnicities, with different religions and cultures. Family gatherings are very tense, people don’t get along because of different backgrounds.
It is interesting to experience to say the least to be perceived under different circumstance as oppressed and oppressor like on this thread.
In the USSR I was oppressed, often because I couldn’t keep my mouth shut and pretend I didn’t see things. In Eastern Europe I am an oppressor because USSR oppressed them. In the US I am an oppressor because I am white, and I still can’t keep my mouth shut. But I think I will shut up now.
Yes.
Farhi, I get it. You have worked really hard all your life, and have never been given any advantages. I haven’t either. I come from a really poor part of Canada (believe it or not, such places exist) and was lucky to go to a really good university in the US.
But what white privilege means is that I (who had nothing) and my black (American) roommate (who also came from a poor place and had nothing), who went to the same prestigious university (for free, paid for by alumni because our families couldn’t have afforded it) we weren’t treated the same. We both had the privilege that comes from being native English speakers. We were both graduates of the same university (and her grades were better than mine). But she was treated one way at border crossings, and taxi ranks, and graduate programs, and job interviews, and I was treated another way. That has continued throughout both of our lives.
Having privilege doesn’t mean you are an oppressor. It doesn’t mean that you have done anything wrong. It means that you don’t have any disadvantages from people looking at your face and making judgments based on that alone. You may have many other disadvantages in life. But none of those disadvantages are guaranteed to stay with you throughout your life as racial discrimination is.
I agree with you, Farhi. Being white does not necessarily mean being privileged. Plenty of historical facts can prove that. And, we are talking about members of a very privileged community here as well. On the other hand, it’s about two different levels racism operates on: the individual, and the institutional. Basically meaning, one race dominating the others, which creates inequality regarding power, status, opportunities. That certainly is the case in HW, and in so far, the discussion is understandable, even though it sounds like complaining out of a very privileged position.
The only way that could happen would be longer nomination lists but as the system is still based on the academy’s vote I doubt it would change things.Voters have admitted that they did not know who Chiwetel Ejiofor was and could not be bothered to watch the film so they voted for the actor they had seen before.They also said many do not watch the film but go for the actor/film with the most buzz -hence the term buying you award.
I partly agree, in the sense that it is actually successfully diving the cause for diversity.
Instead of having a united front in which we should all be demanding the representation of all minorities every year (and in this year’s case the blatant racism towards the black actors), we are all fighting each other.
This site which is usually a very reasonable place in which people can actually respectfully debate, has been full of hatred in the last couple of days because a lot of us have been behaving super intolerant (edit: and this threat is an example). Check the angry arguments and they have become white vs black, black vs other minorities, white and black vs minorities, white and minorities vs black, etc.
It is sad because we won’t achieve nothing if we keep this discussions at this level.
True.
i was surprised that people were calling some people racist based on a few comments on a website.
Fahri…There was no call for people to start making accusations -this should be about debate not name calling
Farhi, please do not be quiet. We are all here to give our opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours as I am to mine. We have fought for that right in the West and will hold on to it no matter what is being said.
But, if Black actors/media commentators cannot say the system is unfair/restrictive when the noms take place for awards (so that nobody feels that they are undeserving of their own nom), then when can they say it? When is the appropriate time?
I remember a Line Manager, some 20 years ago now, telling me not to mention that a customer had racially abused me and I remember asking, if I can’t say it when it happens, when can I say it? He looked at me as if I was being rude and talking back.
If we don’t talk about it when it happens so that it can be debated openly, nothing changes.
i worked for the NHS in the UK where racial abuse by staff or patients came with consequences so it is not like that everywhere. I am sure not everyone reported it but many of us did
@ icerose, your ‘context’ is not really necessary as I never implied that racism happened everywhere. But, I would be surprised if you knew that, some 20 years ago, there were ‘consequences’ for staff/patients who racially abused NHS staff.
Unless you were the NHS HR Director and/or had audio CCTV everywhere, it is a tad impossible to say that ‘consequences’ were applied surely? The Equality/Human Rights Act might have been ‘policy’ everywhere by 1995 but it certainly wasn’t being practiced everywhere by everybody in 1995. Not even amongst the 1.1m people working in the NHS at that time I’m sure…
……..
It’s what happens when there is way too much political correctness. People like Jada Pinkett Smith rave on and on, to try and make out like there have been no prior nominations or Oscar wins EVER, but we all know that to be a lie.
Jake Gyllenhaal didn’t get a nomination for Southpaw (another boxing film), just like Michael B Jordan, but no one discusses this either.
It’s not the Oscar system that is unfair. The rot starts at the top – the film industry in terms of the ratio of white actors to any other actors.
However this sample of films this year weren’t anything exciting either. So no, I’m not surprised that some people (e.g. Will Smith) were not nominated.
When did Jada previously protest about the Oscars? How about never? Not until her husband was in a film and wasn’t nominated.
To date only 44 AA have been nominated for the Oscars. In an ocean of white award winners no one is shedding tears for Jake Gyllenhal missing one nomination.
Haven’t had nearly enough coffee for this.
This! {Sips on third cup of coffee.}
Minorities are not oppressing white people so her comment is silly. Minorities are of course capable of being racist but they aren’t the gatekeepers of the good roles in Hollywood.
Better to just come out and say how insensitive and out of touch you are than to talk in circles like others do. Glad to know where you stand, Ms Rampling.
This is what happens when there is no dialog between two different groups. I think many white people feel the same way as Charlotte – because they have never discussed or try to learn/understand what it is like to be black/poc. So many white people think that things are totally different today because we have a black president, that Jim Crow doesn’t exist anymore (or does it?), etc. etc. But ask any black person (and I have) what goes on in their day-to-day life and then, as a white person, I/you may begin to get a better understanding of why black/poc feel the way they do in regards to the Oscars and racism in general.
A white female (like me) doesn’t get followed around by security when I enter a store. A white person doesn’t get stopped by cops when they are just driving along. A white person doesn’t get passed over for a potential job because we have European-American names on our resumes. And on and on and on…
Honing up on history would be helpful and perhaps you know, talking to a black person, would change this climate of covert racism. Maybe.
Thanks Boston Green Eyes for your thoughtful response.
Exactly, Boston. And because it’s an absence of bad things, not the presence of good things, we don’t notice it because it’s not happening to us. That’s why it’s so important to shut up and listen rather than assuming that what you see of someone else’s experience is all there is to see.
Thank you for your kind words and willingness to try and understand fellow human beings even if they don’t look like you. I feel like race is the last thing really dividing people in this world. And it’s just so depressing and heartbreaking to me to see the deep racism that still exist.
Thanks @Boston Green Eyes for your comment. I agree completely. I work in the journalism industry, which is notoriously mostly white and male. Colleagues outright made racist statements, such as “black men aren’t smart enough to get into college.” I was the only black person in the newsroom and not allowed to question anything or disagree in any way with the editors. If I did, I was called unprofessional, bullied or harassed. Yet, white men in the office could scream, curse, defy editors, etc., with impunity. It turns out the last black person who worked there complained about racial discrimination as well, as did an aging Latino reporter and a gay man. Yet, this newspaper continues to deny any wrongdoing and the whites there felt like victims when I raised my concerns. Sadly, inequality thrives in many industries where minorities are few and far between. I later quit and since then, a newspaper in a community that’s 30 percent black has had no African-American reporters.
People who say everyone is accepted are ignorant and completely out of touch with reality. It must be nice living in that little privilege bubble.
I think the #oscarssowhite arguments is problematic because it undermines the issue at hand, the problem isn’t that there were no black actors nominated, the problem is the lack of diversity as a whole. Which for me, as just an audience member that isn’t American and doesn’t consider herself black or white, means a lot of different stories, perspectives and great actors not being presented in the movies I watch.
If the academy nominated Elba or Smith this year, we might not be having this conversation at all. But the problem would remain the out of all the actors and directors in conversation for an Oscar nomination this year, there were only 3 or 4 people of colour being talked about as possible nominees, and even if the academy nominates a black actor every year, that fact won’t change unless the industry and the executives and people with money catch up with the reality that the world is diverse and the people want diversity on screen.
@ MexicanMonkey Good points, thank you.
Ah, finally! Thank you! I guess that industry is, like all industries, not about us wanting diversity on screen…it’s just a money making machine, and IF someone would think, Will Smith is the best one to bring in huge audiences, they would support him, no matter what, black or green. I truly think colour isn’t the biggest problem, it’s the system of power they created. Meaning institutional racism.
That’s it. The lack of diversity across the film industry: the number of films being made with non-white main actors as one example. But let’s take it further. How about all our literary works that always feature white protagonists. How many novels can anyone come up with that have non-white protagonists, that are made into film franchises? Look at Hunger Games, Harry Potter,World War Z, Gone Girl, etc etc. All white no?
Let’s include publishing, because many films come from novels as well and the majority of novels feature white protagonists.
@ Mexican Monkey
I don’t think #oscarssowhite is problematic because it’s the perfect gateway and occasion to use as a jump off into the issue at hand.
Without this discussion about the nominations, it would be harder to address the significantly diminished opportunities for non-whites in the industry in general, and the tightly defined types of roles that are both available to them and that ultimately seem to be favourably considered by the Academy.
From there when discussing the causes of a second year of such nominations, the opportunities and paltry diversity in the industry itself and the prevalent and change-resistant attitudes held by it’s majority that keep it that way can be addressed without seeming as if they came out of nowhere, or being so easily dismissed.
So it seems to that it’s helpful rather than problematic but that perhaps more excluded groups could lend their voices and experiences to the matter. I’m really surprised its been nearly a week now and we haven’t heard from more celebrity non-black PoC.
I guess she’ll be winning in her category.
I’m black and I don’t agree with the Oscars boycott because the Oscars aren’t the problem. I don’t think that all of the people attending the Oscars are evil and hate all minorities.
I think the gatekeepers/studio heads in Hollywood are the real issue. They’d rather give roles to bad white actors than good minority actors.
They are also the issue when it comes to women over 40 not having the same amount of quality roles as mediocre male actors.
WORD!
it’s not only black people. it’s women too. and many others. but nobody complains and rebels when it’s about women.
@ Helena
Then why aren’t white women over 40 commenting on it now? It’s a good time to talk about exclusionary issues in the industry and not all these women are attending the AAs? Equal pay has been a topic for a while as has feminism there was time and a climate for it even before #oscarssowhitepartdeux happened.
Viola Davis can’t do it all nor should we expect her to. Some WoC have already said the lack of opportunities generally gives them a late start if they get to start at all.
No one’s stopping white women over 40 or non-black PoC from commenting, so like why aren’t they? So far we’ve had mostly white males comment on diversity (and a few of white women under 40). If white women over 40 are worried about being accused of bandwaggoning an issue for their own ends then they can always wait until after the ceremony and discussion have died down but they are free to broach the issue.
Well, I agree with that, but I also think that the Oscars are a visible place to voice these thoughts. The Oscars are a farce anyway, and barely representative of films as a whole, but everybody still pays a lot of attention to them. It also serves as the main gathering of the industry on an annual basis. Actors boycotting actually appearing in films would never gain traction, because for every single actor declining a role, there are hundreds champing at the bit to take it. This is probably the most visible way for a small number of people to make an impact.
But it’s not just about that. Take all the films that have been made in the last year, as well as upcoming films, made from novels. What are the novel protagonists? Almost always white. So these best selling novels are bought by readers, and then if anyone casts someone other than white for the main role, there is that potential backlash as well – which will come, no doubt, because there are many novel fanboys and girls that are ridiculous in their cult-like following of literary franchises. Imagine if the casting directors for Twilight cast a non-white actor to play Bella or Edward? What about Gone Girl? What about Harry Potter? (how white was this franchise overall? 90% white) Hunger Games (the non-white actors were the ones that were always killed off), Fight Club (Brad Pitt as the main character, which was white), 50 Shades of Grey, etc.
The Oscars are clearly not the problem because the problem is rooted in the very culture/literature that the film industry chooses to animate. And then you have to ask about the publishing industry overall – how white it actually is. After all, the largest publishing company in the world (Penguin Random House) is German/white – what more can be said? They prefer to publish white authors, that write white stories.
they prefer to use novels etc which they feel will make money-is the truth and English is one of the worlds universal languages with a wide net to pull from.The truth is it all comes down to money
Irrelevant. Instances of individual or even group racism are not comparable to institutionalized racism. The power structure in this country is white. There can be a black man at the top of it, but it is white. It doesn’t matter if the disenfranchised are racist. They aren’t in a position of power to act on that racism.
@ Greenweenie ‘It ‘doesn’t matter if the disenfranchised are racist’. I disagree with that. I would say that racism always matters. People need to become conscious of it, and they need to free themselves of it. At any level of society.
That is ridiculous. Nothing good forms from racism regardless of whether the racist holds power in society or not.
Brie Larson is winning best actress.
My brain shakes, shivers and hurts so bad every time white person tries to pull racist card.
Why do older conservative white people seem to have no problem telling minorities what they “should” feel but do not attempt to sympathize at all?
I was so pissed when members of the academy admitted they had not even watched “Straight Outta Compton. They decided they weren’t going to like it without even giving it a chance and watching it. When a movie wins awards and gets praise all around from critics, it should be a requirement that they watch the damn movie!!!
They are so accustomed to their voices and viewpoints being privileged over others’ that it never occurs to them that it might be any other way. I didn’t realise that Academy members admitted they couldn’t even be bothered to watch the film. That’s disgusting.
Oh I knew they wouldn’t watch it.
It features scary black men with their pants hanging too low and that darn rape music. No, no, much too low-brow for the dignified Academy voter.
Sarcasm aside I suspected as much, these folks fit in a demographic that doesn’t embrace change and diversity much. SOC to them must have been pure trash simply for not being about an existential crisis or slaves.
Some of them must have watched it since the writers got a nom. Or at least they decided that with all the reviews being good that the writers must have done all the heavy lifting.
Original Screenplay this year had excellent nominations and i think the writing branch should be praised immensely for that.
I can’t find the original article I read, but here is a quote from one of the academy members from Billboard.com:
“Straight Outta Compton is a masterpiece, probably the best biopic since Amadeus — but many if not most of the Academy can’t fathom songs like ‘F@#k tha Police.’ I know many members who wouldn’t even see the film because it represented a culture that they detest or, more accurately, they assume they detest.”
The director continues, “Younger people, even those under 50, are not only fans of the music, but much more willing to try to empathize with the world depicted in the movie. When the Academy expands to an even younger demo, movies like Straight Outta Compton will stand a chance.”
Well to be fair, many voters admit to only watching a handful of potential nominee’s, if that. Most couldn’t even name all the films/actors being hyped. It’s doubtful they watched all the dozens and dozens of screeners they were sent but purposefully skipped SooC, or Creed or Beasts. More likely they just watched a couple of films their friends made, or recommended to them, and didn’t even glance at the rest.
Which is a huge part of the problem. A lot of the voters aren’t even very interested in films, they just happened to do a job that made them eligible to vote.
“But do we have to take from this that there should be lots of minorities everywhere?”
No, Charlotte, they should only be a few random faceless, nameless, underpaid people cleaning your house, cooking your meals, sewing your clothes, mowing your lawn and driving you places.
She sounds exactly like my co-worker who was trying to whitesplain to our black colleague why the OscarsSoWhite is BS. I had to leave the room, she wouldn’t allow either of us to try to offer another point of view, she just kept. on. talking.
She sounded like my older coworker as well. Coworker is originally from SE Asia and watches movies but doesn’t really pay attention to the business at all. So her response to seeing this on the news was ‘but maybe they weren’t good enough?’ She at least listened to me when I told her that it wasn’t just this year, and it’s not just awards. When when you have an industry run by white males this, and role opportunities, have been longstanding issues. She wasn’t aware of this at all.
Lol, sometimes all you can do is pull an Angela Bassett and just whirl around and walk away bad-ass while someone is on fire.
Heck yeah Eternal Side-Eye. Angela Bassett in that scene was badass of the highest order.
Damn right she was! One of my favorite movie scenes.
Bye Felicia.
I have absolutely no words that are fit to print right now. I am pretty much at zero tolerance for any more of this bullshit. I have officially had it.
Yep
See this is why the Oscar controversy needs perspective. This is the Academy! You just saw it right here. This is who you are seeking validation from! If nothing else maybe the public will start to figure out how deeply unimportant these awards should be treated. The curtain is being pulled back.
White people want to be oppressed so bad lol.
YES, also Christians. If I see one more shrill nutcase on TV whining how gay marriage is really an offense to them and their private lives Imma flip a TV.
I had to unfollow someone this morning when they were going on a rant about transgendered bathrooms, and had all kinds of replies saying things like
“What I don’t understand is, trans people, gay and lesbian people, Muslim people etc all want to have right but why is it always at the expense of other people’s right?”
So so so many morons out there.
As a ghostly pale white Canadian, I’m so embarrassed on like … a daily basis … by the idiots running their mouths on white folks behalf, and how many people get so up in arms about having to not be assholes to other races/cultures/religions.
I agree lol
This #OscarsSoWhite discussion is very good and I hope it keeps going.
It’s reactions such as this one that reveal just what the problem is and how deep it goes. All the nominees will be tested and asked about this in interviews and it will be interesting to see their reactions.
And this argument of perhaps the black actors were less deserving…if you ask yourself that question after reading the list of white nominees you are just a liar and a cheat.
Lol. She represent everything thats wrong with this world where whites or si privileged that point that out makes you a racists towards blacks. She needs to shut her mouth. My great grand parents were slaves in their own country working for whites people. My grandparents had less food then the whites people running their country. And I grew up harassed because of my skin color by school mates and teachers.
People saying she didnt deserve her stupid award is far far far away from racism. #tryagain
I feel bad for the current nominees that, in what should be one of the best moments of their lives, they are essentially paying the price for decades and decades of exclusion. I imagine it is hard to not take it personally and get the message that black actors should have been nominated, and you should not have been. However, they would have to be blind to see that it is not an issue and need to figure out how to engage and comment in a constructive way. Her reaction is obviously revealing.
The nominees shouldn’t feel bad, they should be aware of the system they work in and adjust their happiness accordingly.
Awards matter but where they come from should also matter. If a serial killer or a thief decides to give you an award, it’s up to you if you are flattered by it or not. Either way, I think it would be smart for these people to understand where their precious Oscar awards are coming from.
I mean, I feel worse for the people being excluded. But I think it would be to deny human nature to not feel flattered when you are being singled out for praise, and to not want to defend that source of praise.
You know, at least for now, there are just going to be people who rationalize the lack of diversity and even feel victimized by the mention of it. They will always give me a knot of rage in my stomach. I don’t know if people like that are capable of understanding something that doesn’t directly affect them, and that’s a shallow way to go through life. This woman probably won’t change. She may have to backtrack or tone it down because of the well deserved backlash, but she will still honestly believe she’s making sense. My hope is that the people like her will get less and less by attrition and eventually the world will change. For now, I will just focus on what I can do to support change and ignore this kind of sad, self-imposed ignorance and isolation. I’m not saying that it’s wrong to speak out about her idiocy, but I just don’t think she’s worth the rage. Your time is in the past, Charlotte.
“knot of rage” Know and share that feeling, GNAT.
Look, the institutionalized racism is entrenched, and the way the academy actually works makes it worse. Firstly, there are lots of weak performances that get nominated so it’s not a given that every performance by a white actor is oscar worthy(American Sniper anyone??). Secondly, from the year dot, the academy has not always been able to recognize an actor in the year the “oscar worthy” work was done. Hence, someone would knock it out of the park in a role, but it’s “someone elses turn” so they don’t get recognized. Then throw in all the politics and campaigning and voila~you’ve got system that favours the establishment and those with the most resources. Can someone tell me when in this process is a movie actually being evaluated on merit?? Sometimes, they get it right but most of the time it’s not and that needs to be acknowledged.
Charlotte needs to have a seat-forever.
Have. A. Seat.
The woman has a right to her opinion just like everyone else does.
Yup, just as we can tell her to sit down.
Exactly!
No-one is silencing her, Renae. She was on a radio show which is literally the opposite of being silenced.
When will some people realize that the concept of freedom of speech doesn’t mean you also get freedom from criticism of your speech? Charlotte was given plenty of opportunity to speak her mind (ignorant as it is) and everyone else has the right to comment on that.
I’m gonna roll my eyes hard if she later complains about how upset she was at the backlash. If you’re prepared to dish it out in public (and offend others in the process), have the balls to take it. That goes for you, too, Kirk Cameron.
…And her right isn’t being violated. 🙂
I completrly fell out of love with her. Fighting for equal rights is not white hating. Just like fighting for gay marriage doesn’t mean anti straight people. And really are there so many untalented people of colour that only white people deserved to get nominated for their talent? Come on, seriously. For someone so privileged to pull the racism card is despicable. Not only are people of colour barely recognized, often they don’t even get n opportunity to play good roles, those only go to white people. So yeah of course whites get nominated, they at least had a chance to show off their skills. Minorities? We get two lines and are expected to be grateful.
There are latino, Asian, and middle Eastern act as well 😒 Not that we’re ever really factored in when it comes to race discussions in this country…
I’ll be glad when white people are the minority.
Tbh I think it’s easy to believe this simply because the media doesn’t give attention to these groups, but as an African woman even I’m aware of the many Latino, Asian and Middle Eastern groups fighting the battle.
Just because blacks have been the longest and loudest group fighting for equality doesn’t mean we’re the only group. I go out of my way to support Projects for other races because I’m well aware of how unbalanced and segregated this culture is when it comes to opportunities.
Oh no doubt, TES.
I just get annoyed that no one ever talks about other PoC (really it’s white folks, lbh). Black Americans and the Civil Rights Movement are what made it possible for Latinos to sit in white sections (even tho my people will rarely admit this but that’s a different discussion entirely).
@The Other Maria
It’s difficult because part of what gives blacks the authority to speak is due to the fact they’ve been in this country (unwillingly) nearly since its inception. There was a movement at one point to return to Africa but many blacks sadly felt there was nothing to return to, that this was their home. As a result they have been incredibly vocal in always fighting for their rights and being a thorn in the ruling class’s side.
Due to the way other ethnicities emigrated to the U.S. I think the ruling class has always felt they didn’t have to take their complaints as seriously. Asian Americans faced fears with the internment camps and couldn’t be a vocal force when the US was fighting and Pearl Harbor was the 9/11 of its time. Hispanics on the other hand also came in working behind the scenes and manual labor, many didn’t have English to speak, and again had to be subservient to survive.
But that was the past and I do feel bad that these groups do try to be vocal and get their voice out there and are still often times ignored by the media. I guess the same issue blacks face, which is you’re ignored until you basically become loud and angry in your complaints.
Yes we are factored when it comes to race discussions in this country. A positive step for the Black community is one for the rest of us.
well that’s racism too. why would now white people be discarted? the whole point is giving latinos,asians, african people, europeans…the same chance as the white americans so I don’t know why would it be okay to be racist towards white people if it’s not okay to be racist against black people? it’s not okay to be racist at all.
Maria, the whites being a minority does not mean that suddenly the world will be a better place for minorities.
The people with money and power making the decisions and deciding are the key.
If those people decide on making “whiter” movies, they will keep doing them regardless of percentages of population. Also, this is not a vendetta of sorts, waiting for them to become a minority.
In my country, we are mostly one ethnicity and the tv shows are pure crap. They excuse themselves saying that they are under no obligation of producing cultural, educative or at lest, less awful shows. They do them because they produce money, people consume those sh*t tv products. There eased to be great shows, but now everything has the lowest level… and people are happy, they watch that. Even the news/time people or reporters are becoming like showgirls in small dresses and loaded on plastic surgery for ratings.
What needs to change first?
The taste of the public.
All over the world, if people consume diverse movies, then more movies like those will get made.
2016 is REALLY trying me. Not even joking
Please find a stadium or a large venue of choice.
Look around
Find a seat
AND HAVE IT. HAVE ALL OF THEM
Ahaha yes! HAVE ALL THE SEATS. AND ALLOW US TO SAVOUR YOUR WAILS OF DESPAIR WHEN YOU REALISE YOU’RE ALL LOCKED IN THERE WITH NOTHING BUT HALFTIME HOTDOGS TO LIVE ON.
How long before they start eating each other. Your bets please, ladies and gentlemen.
So let’s go through this top five list because frankly I’m damn tired of hearing this nonsense repeated over and over.
1. Asking for equal acknowledgement and respect is NOT racist to whites.
2. If a minority group being repeatedly judged as NOT as good as whites doesn’t strike some perception of imbalance within you, you’re part of the problem.
3. If you think ‘everyone’ is basically accepted these days you are deaf, dumb, and blind.
4. If you have a nearly all black cast working on a movie and the three white guys are the only ones to get awarded for it? Oh fill in the blank.
5. If when you’re finally hit with facts you reply ‘no comment’ you are incredibly of of your league and need to swim back to the kiddie pool of logical thought.
It seems so easy to understand and yet…willful ignorance.
Bingo Eternal Side Eye. Done and dusted.
Thank you. I can’t imagine how asking for the same acknowledgment can be twisted into “racism” (or even just prejudice) against whites. It’s not like people are saying white actors and directors shouldn’t have their good work awarded anymore.
This isn’t gossip, it’s just race wars. No fun.
I agree that it isn’t fun at all. It starts to feel really…futile in the sense that many people have their minds made up and nobody seems to want to change. It’s depressing and disheartening.
All the other posts about gossipy things and you decide to pop into this one with that comment. Okay…
I love Charlotte and I’m going to pretend she didn’t really say that.
Enjoy that.
#yourfaveisproblematic
And on this episode of “Embarrassed To Be White”……
Is it wrong that I thought, “thank God she’s not American?”
No GNAT….to be fair, my first thought was, ‘oh no she’s British!’.
I always have this ridiculous view that we are much more enlightened on these things because we don’t live in racially segregated communities but what do I know?
Yes, GNAT. At least you’re not British AS WELL!
Oh dear lord. I never liked her much to begin with, now I have good reason.
I strongly disagree with Rampling,but this hasn’t changed my opinion of her. She’s a phenomenal actress.
I’m slightly incredulous that with the myriad of social injustices, racism, sexism, oppressive religions, good old genocide and ethnic cleansing, et al. going on all over the world, that the Oscars would be the issue to pounce on. Having just returned from 7 months in Aftica, my husband would tell you that Aftricans he met in numerous countries think we Americans are insanely obsessive and completely uptight. And these are folks that are starving in many cases, poorer than most Americans could fathom. But they wouldn’t trade places.
All these crises and we care about the Oscars.
Well, it’s people within the industry up in arms and protesting the event, which is part of their professional lives. It just happens that these are the people we are paying attention to.
Why yes, because one can only work on one issue at a time. How silly of us to not figure that out before.
As an African woman who was born, raised and lives in an African country, give me a f*cking break with that harebrained argument.
THANK YOU.
Glad you and your hubby got the thumbs up about America’s racial issues from Africans dealing with their own issues.
Well put, Lola!
@aenflex….it’s not the Oscars everyone is angry about. It’s what they represent, the continuing and tragic divide between the races. The Oscars is only a metaphor for a much larger problem that, despite all the hard work done in the last century to end racism and discrimination and ghettoizing, IT STILL GOES ON…and African Americans in the movie sector are not being given equal opportunity. It is a classic example of “social injustice, racism, sexism, and discrimination.”
And I can guarantee you that despite your paternalistic attitude about the poor Africans you met, there are plenty who would cut off their right arm to live in the U.S.
Where is the ratio on this? I don’t know enough about the industry to have a complete perspective, but how represented are blacks (or anyone else) in the film industry? 10%, 20% 50%? And roughly relative to that, how frequently have they been awarded Oscars?
Or is none of that relevant and their not being nominated an immediate marker of racism? MUST they be nominated?
The low percentage of minorities in the industry is part of the problem though. You should be asking what percentage minorities are in the general population. In the United States, non-White communities make up 22.3% of the population (according to a quick Google), so almost a quarter. Are almost a quarter of film roles going to minority actors? No. And that’s just the U.S. I don’t know what the percentages are globally. The film industry as a whole is not representative of the population, which is in part what is being protested here.
And do you honestly think that out of the cream-of-the-crop of minority actors who actually did manage to make it through this stacked system and score a role in a high profile film this year, not ONE of them served up as good of a performance as ANY of the twenty White actors nominated? How likely is that, objectively?
Interview seems to have been in French, so she’ll probably claim a mistranslation at some point to do some damage control.
I’ve never really subscribed to the Charlotte Rampling fawning: she’s always struck me as being out-of-touch and bland in her performances and interviews, despite the raves she won. IIRC she did some random French sex-tourism film that skeeved me right out (rich white women holidaying in a devastated Haiti). Weirdly, I’ve always, subconsciously, linked her with Michel Houellbecq: elite, provocative but desperately dull.
No ,it is worse in French ! I listened her interview this morning
Eh, can you imagine if an American dared to comment on situations related to racism in France? People would tell us, “You’re not from here, you don’t understand.” That should have been her response – “I’m not from there, so I don’t understand. I don’t have the right perspective. However, it’s interesting to see this debate considering the racism that I have seen in my lifetime in my two countries, England and France.”
and then you talk about places you do know, and what you have seen there. The racism against Muslims or Jewish or African people in France or England. Would that have been so hard? Because you have not a clue about the US Madame.
Correct! Instead she just shows her ignorance.
Between this and Mariah, I’ve let out way too many sighs this morning. Racist to whites, the OSCARS?
The Hollywood machine and the Oscars is so elite and pretentious I’m surprised anyone is surprised that its racist, of course it is – its all about power – I go and see films I think I’ll like not because they’ve been nominated for some award or other and I make up my own mind about them.
Tragic. My CharlotteRamplingLove is dead. RIP.
Thanks for this, I’ll make sure to boycott anything she is in. I’ll also spread this to the forum I particpate in and family and friends.
Breaking: Old Rich White Person Says Thoughtless Words About Racism; Is Out Of Touch.
In other news: water is wet, and people are stupid.
I love how all of a sudden the Oscars are all about “merit” and the best performance when for years white mediocrity has gotten through based off of sentimentality and an Oscar narrative. Yes, there is an issue when it comes to the availability of roles. However, all the roles in the world aren’t going to help when a voting block is condition to only accepting people that fit into certain narrative because when it comes down to awarding Tessa Thompson for a stellar performance or an aging white favorite who finally has put in a passable performance, the voters are going to go with the latter.
Edit: Charlotte could be making a serious play as the Trump candidate for the Best Actress Oscar.
Shut up, Charlotte. Why do ALL my favorites have to run their mouths like this sooner or later?
It makes me wanna pull my hair out when white people pull out the tired “it shouldn’t be about be about affirmative action/race, it should be about talent” nonsense. POC don’t want affirmative action, in fact, we’re protesting for the end of the centuries old, bastardised affirmative action known as white privilege. We’re saying meritocracy doen’t exist because the system has always been rigged in white people’s favour.
My neck is now permanently paralyzed from the eyeroll I experienced after reading that statement. Thanks, Charlotte! 😛
You need to change your username to PinkyToo or something. We’ve gone through this before.
Well Charlotte, this all reminds me of the wise adage that my grandmother spent months needlepointing: “If you can’t add anything intelligent to the conversation, kindly shut the fu*k up.”
And on the other wall a lovely sampler reads: “Let not others wonder if thou art a rapist. Open thou mouth and remove all fu*king doubt.”
My granny, such a wise lady.
ETA: Sorry…. That’s supposed to say racist.
Hahahahahaha love your comment!!!!! 😁
@Giddy – I was really wondering about your grandma there for a minute! Very funny typo.
😀
Could I possibly adopt your granny? I don’t care if she’s living. I’ll prop her up. She sounds amazing.
Oh dear. Those quotes make her look really bad. She should have just kept her mouth shut. She also doesn’t know what racism means. Still I think the racist angle is being overblown. Just two years ago we had black nominees and winners. It’s about the role you play and the type of film. Straight Outta Compton is just not an Oscar type film. Films like Ray and 12 Years a Slave, are. If we had a ton of contenders in Oscary roles that were black and ignored, then I could see the racism angle a bit more.
But the writer for SOC ( who are white) received a nomination.
The film was on several best of…, and was a critical success.
Oscar nominations have gone to far less with all white cast.
Does she mean it makes her look bad for attending and hoping to win? As a white person? Maybe she takes that as she’s not deserving of her nomination?
This has become a cycle: Awards snubbs, stupid racist comments by someone defending the system, followed by futile conversations which the members of the academy don’t give a damn about.
In a way I feel this is keeping the coversation in a super shallow level “this or that was snubbed”, and by keeping it there, it won’t let us go to the real problem which is within the society, the white privilege and status quo of certain groups of power.
Also, I think for those in positions of power it is also better that we are all fighting each other over this.
Following years will be the same, with some wins by monirites in between to keep things the same way.
That’s why something like a widespread boycott would actually be useful. If the system isn’t working, let’s grind the system to a halt. What would happen if none of the stars showed up to the Oscars?
The real issue? It is rare for a large production company film to be full of anyone but white males. Look at the best pic nods from years back? White men doing white men stuff. It’s nearly universal. If more roles were available for POC and women then there would be opportunities for them to get work and get nominated. The movies are made for and by white men. If that system changes then we will see more POC and women in leading roles in movies.
Oh boy.
Nah.
It’s because it a diverse Academy with a diverse Hollywood wouldn’t guarantee an all-white nomination, and apparently old white men in particular, feel personally diminished by not being the primary and often sole focus of any institution.
So in short: a diverse Academy wouldn’t make them the prime focus so they have no interest or intention of letting one happen. A level playing field might *horror* nominate all MoC and women.
According to the kind of logic on display here either: PoC are just bad actors by default; or all the good PoC actors are being magically kept out of film year after year, 95% of the time. You know, or her logic/and the Academy apparatus is faulty af which surprisingly few white people seem willing to personally consider. But then: how could that possibly be when THEY’RE getting 99% of the noms?! This logic says: it’s just because they’re that good.
I guess they’re waiting for PoC to sip this Kool Aid by osmosis. Keep trying.
I don’t think the Oscars nominations are “too white.” I just think that’s the way the voting tallied. What will be next – an uprising of Latinos, Native Americans, Asians, short people, people with pink hair, etc. – because they did not get nominated? Why would an African American actor want to be in the running for an Oscar if they were nominated by a quota system – as in “We nominated you because we had to have 40% African American nominees”.
Perhaps some better acting would improve the nomination chances for certain individuals.
Please explain why it has to be “all white” or quota, and why “all white” could never possibly ever have occurred by ingrained prejudice or attitude because I need to know exactly what is insurmountably stopping the Academy’s decisions from being influenced by racist attitudes that it’s absolutely not in the vicinity of possibility.
Are they unicorns and I missed it?
Lots of White people with questionable acting get nominated (and even win!) Oscars. That “some better acting” argument is silly.
You’re right. Being born black is the same as buying buying a box of dye and dying your hair pink.
So simple. You can stop having pink hair and you can stop being bla – Ohhh wait.
#logicfail
But WHY do you think the voting tallied that way? Could it have been because 94% of the judging panel is White? Could it have been because predominantly White producers/writers/directors and hiring predominantly White casts for every single role that doesn’t specify that the character should be a POC? Nobody is saying there should be a quota system, they are saying there should be a fair and equal shot for everyone. There isn’t.
So……I am hoping that everyone will hear me out before making judgement. The problem is that whites cannot end white privilege. Whites do indeed favourite other whites, but all races do that. Blacks have a special love and protection for those of their race, just like whites do. It is to be expected that each race will protect its own. The problem lies in the fact that other races worship white culture . For example Asians have plastic surgery on their eyes at an alarming rate to look more white. The black actress who won an Oscar stated every night she used to pray she woke up white. Black men frequently want to marry white women. This attitude towards whites is what creates white privilege. It makes everyone believe that being white is superior . Unfortunately it also gives whites the idea that they are better as everyone wants to be like them. When races truly stop the white worship and love who they are white privilege will end. The problem is these races keep trying to “get included” in “white” institutions and it makes them look like they are begging like a step child. The Oscars. Really? They are a joke, and everyone knows it. Why exactly would anyone even care to be included. The way the actors these days beg and carry on it is really a disgrace. How about a black actor refusing to have his name entered for the race and state that he would not include himself because they are a joke and he doesn’t beg for awards from an outdated institution. Now that would be powerful. Quit begging to be included in outdated pathetic worn out institution. Unfortunately next year there will be some black actors included but now it will look like a pity vote and even if it is not said openly everyone will think it. So nothing has been gained. Stop acting like every thing “white” is the ultimate it isn’t – but by begging to get in white privilege lives on.
Wow, that’s a new one. So PoC are now to blame for white privilege? Ridiculous.
…okay, I’m going to use a similar example to explain why your logic doesn’t quite work.
The problem is abusers love being abusers and why wouldn’t they when their victims are willing to be abused. If victims don’t want abusers to be happy then they should stop letting themselves be abused. Like today. So what if the abuser has been beating them for years, victims should immediately shrug off all the damage from that abuse and without any issue at all perfectly love and respect themselves. Oh, and other people shouldn’t demand the abuser stop because that’s implying the abuser is important. The abuse victim should just miraculously be happy like centuries long abuse never happened and everything will improve.
You claim white privelage is something that can just be dismissed easily but don’t offer any type of realistic answer to the, in some cases, intentional extermination of other races by whites.
How does one magically stop needing white approval when nearly every industry on the planet is ruled by white people? Let’s say we go with your example:
“Stop working for white companies and make your own!”
Okay, but starting a money needs monumental amounts of capital. I’ll likely need a loan.
“Don’t get a loan from a white bank.”
Okay, but ‘black’ banks are typical small institutions that aren’t franchises. But sure, I go to a blank bank, get the money and start to build my company.
So while I’m building this black company a white company that has existed for a hundred + years is already up and running. I can’t do anything until my company is built but I’m supposed to somehow manage to become enough of a competitor against this white bank that I can solve all the issues of institutional racism?
The term is cultural hegemony. Look it up. Also look up american hegemony.
Exactly right Georgia
Banging my head on the wall.
White privilege began when we dragged black people over here in chains – they did not want to work for free for their white “owners.” When slavery ended, white people did everything in their power to keep black people uneducated and outside of their society.
This is systemic, old, and the only ones with the power to end this are white people.
Oh my god no… what a typical thing for a 60ish british old lady to say. Not saying all old English people are morons but if you heard some of the stuff that comes out of my inlaws mouths…. you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
Yeah, no. I know a lot of British women in their 60s, and that has not been my experience. At all.
I’m surprised people are so shocked by this. She’s been talking out of her a$$ for years. This is the woman who said that acting alongside a chimpanzee was like acting alongside Paul Newman. Not as if that’s in any way on the same level as her most recent comments, but what I’m saying is that she’s always been a jerk.
I will admit when I first started reading this website, I came for Chris Evans articles… haha. However, I stayed for articles like this. I will totally admit that I was really uneducated on issues like the one being discussed in both the original article and comments. I still have a lot to learn and I honestly want to say thanks to all of you for being so intelligent in your discussions and for disagreeing without being rude. I don’t often comment on this website, I usually read and then read some more and then go research what I am reading, but I always enjoy the learning that comes from it. My husband calls this my “guilty pleasure gossip blog” but its more. Please don’t stop talking about things and sharing opinions, as my eyes have been opened to so many issues larger than what goes on in my own little world. I want to keep growing and learning how to change my personal views and perceptions and how to contribute back into the world in a more meaningful way. And I seriously wish that sometimes I could just go for coffee with some of you and ask questions for hours!
I feel the same way, some of the posters here have helped me expand my thinking through intelligent and well thought out comments.
Someone should make this movie: where 6 different people are going to be interviewed for a job, it can depict each persons back story and explore their ethnicities and gender and the impact it has on their lives. Who gets the job, how that decision came about and the ripple effect. That would be Oscar worthy and diverse.
My heart just bleeds for these poor white luvvies whose GODDAMN ART is being called into question by these horrible RACISTS who have the temerity to suggest that the Oscars are ever awarded on anything other than PURE MERIT.
The most maddening thing about this is how goddamn easy it is for these people – they are so f*cking spoiled and they still can’t step outside themselves for a second.
HEAD DIZZY FROM SHAKING.
She should have never said anything.
I’m Brazilian who lives in USA. So I can talk about the race and ethnicity obsessions that has taken over this country for several decades.
I’m White anywhere in Latin America but here I’ve to label myself Latina but this label does not fit well with my Italian surname and extremely White skin. My brown hair and brown eyes help the Latina label so I guess I am Latina?!?!
Let’s talk about the high number of young boys and girls who are very much Americans but because their origins are from South Korea, China, Japan, Hong Kong and other countries they have to get out of USA to try a musical or movie career of success. Did you ever heard about KPop? It’s full of American kids who are victims of racism in their own country
FINALLY.
Her comments & justification are ridiculous. And she’s pretty much the one clear voice in support of the Academy…so what does this mean now, in terms of awards…?
Are all those old, white Academy members that we’ve been blaming for the skewed nominations and voting, now going to vote for HER, because her way of thinking/excusing aligns with theirs? So Brie, Cate, Jennifer and Saoirse can just forget about it for this year…?
How is it racist against whites when all it is white people? So stupid.
This site is starting to irritate me. I love Celebitchy but on issues surrounding racism and cultural appropriation there is too much climbing on the high horse going on.
I am mixed race and very much believe that racism exists wherever someone is prejudice against another based on skin colour. That means other colours towards whites too. Sure whites were the oppressors but can we really go forward holding that against people today who had no say in it? Can you blame a child for the actions of their parents or grandparents?
As for cultural appropriation, again throughout history we have tried on for size the clothes, mannerisms and ways of other cultures. It’s what humans do and how we learn and move forward. As long as it is not done in a mocking fashion, live and let live.
I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist. It really does but minorities don’t need to lower themselves to the standards of having an ‘us verses them’ mentality. Colour should not matter.
We can say color should not matter but it does. Clearly it is still being used to systematically institutionally enslave a group of people as a working class. That does not mean that all white people are racist, but it does mean that being a non-minority will automatically give you privileges. I actually applaud those who know that their parents, or grandparents, are doing wrong, or thinking wrong, and still speak out. Those are the people who have always been there to support the cause. Those are the people who won’t tell minorities to “just get over it” or “stop making everything about race”. I think of Tim Wise or a Micheal Moore or on this website “Eternal Side-Eye” and I am happy to know that this is not a fight that only minorities are pushing. There are people who are saying this is wrong and are willing to stand up to the system they were born in with privilege and still demand justice.
I adore her so I’m incredibly disappointed in her 🙁
There is a new update http://www.avclub.com/article/academy-announces-major-overhaul-response-oscarsso-231169 Apparently there was an emergency meeting and they are making changes.
The changes the Academy has indicated they have going to make sound interesting. Whatever the case, the ignorance of some people is outstanding. Pointing out that pretty much everyone nominated for an Oscar this year and last year is white, is not racist. It’s a fact.
Pointing out said fact is also not a knock against any of the nominees nor it is a racism toward white people. And I don’t see why anyone would jump to that conclusion unless they have some sort of a complex.
Pointing out that performances in movies is subjective is also not racist. Pointing out that white people are usually nominated, even for mediocre performances, films, etc because the vast majority of the voting block identifies with them is not racist.
And anyone who jumps to the conclusion that the only way that minority people can be nominated is through a quota system has issues. Eternal side eye from me for anyone who throws that out there, because I know where your mind went.
One last thing, it’s hilarious to me that people are making this a “Black” thing. Everything non white ethnic group under the sun has been complaining about this for years. It’s nothing new.
You summoned me darling?
Welcome Patty. I want to print out your comment and frame it or better yet, put it on a placard. Well said!
I think people can be racist on an individual level against people of any race, but institutionalised racism, like the racism that exists in the Academy, does not exist for white people.
It’s the same thing as when someone says that misogyny doesn’t exist. It certainly does on a personal level, just not on an institutionalised level.
It’s ridiculous to say that this issue is racist against whites. Actors of other races simply don’t get the same level of consideration for Academy nods as white actors do and that has to change.
I think you meant misandry, not misogyny.
Oh wow, yes – that was one hell of a mistake to make. I did indeed mean misandry.
I can’t with this. She is genuinely saying anyone noticing whites get better treatment is racist. She says complaints that white people are more lauded, better paid, and offered more opportunity than any other group is evidence whites are wronged. Literally the only interpretation possible, if you follow the chain of logic, is that she thinks white people are innately superior, do better in every measure not from institutionalised advantage but purely on merit, and therefore anyone questioning that is racist, because they are assuming that there has to be an explanation other than white supremacy. She’s arguing that only white supremacy is not racist.
What can you do with that?
Michael Caine and Charlotte Rampling seriously need to get over themselves. Why is it that today’s reveal that the Oscars are going to diversify members by 2020 brings forward ugly comments soaked in privilege about how maybe this year’s minority performances weren’t very good? Besides being untrue, no one is talking about token awards being handed out. The announcement is that the Academy, which currently consists of 90% males, white, and over 50 – many long retired, is going to open some slots to voting members who are more representative of the general population including women and minorities, and voting status lapsing after 10 years of being inactive in the business. That is the change that is happening, which is a change that is beyond long overdue. If anything should have been prompted last year during the first #OscarsSoWhite nonetheless years ago. How is fair nomination supposed to happen when you have a board that is so out of touch? This is a step in the right direction, shocked at the hateful commentary. When someone proposes steps to level playing fields, this “anti-white” rhetoric comes up. No one is talking about special privileges.
Isn’t the elephant in the room the fact that the Academy voters don’t watch all the films in competition?!?!?!
I can’t imagine a literary prize awarded by people who haven’t read the books, or an art prize awarded by people who haven’t looked at all the paintings or sculptures in competition. Or a music prize awarded by people who haven’t listened to all the music. Isn’t this a tad strange?
Bringing more diversity to the Academy will at least alter the selection of films that are actually watched. But uninformed and inattentive voters still will be a big problem. They need to watch the $&@&$ films!!!!! What is wrong with these people?!?
At least this explains something that always puzzled me – the Oscar campaigns. I can see why actors might go out to rev up interest in a film before or soon after it comes out, to get people to go buy tickets. But why “campaign” for Oscars? The film is done and in competition. Now I know it’s because the voters don’t bother to watch the films, so it’s all just a junior high popularity contest. Whoever passes out more cupcakes wins. If they know this, why even bother? The awards aren’t really meaningful.