SPOILERS for Game of Thrones 6.10, “The Winds of Winter.”
We’ve seen some great hours of television from Game of Thrones in past years. Hell, last week’s “Battle of the Bastards” was one of the best hours of television ever too. But last night’s season six finale was just next-level. I think it might be the best 70 minutes of television ever, at least that I’ve ever seen. Nearly every actor was bringing their A-game too, and we got some extraordinary pay-offs, cliffhangers and shocks along the way. Here are some highlights:
Pride cometh before the fall. So you thought that because Cersei had to eat sh-t for two seasons, maybe the end was nigh? Maybe we were going to see Cersei die? Queen, please. Cersei hasn’t even gotten started. To avoid standing trial before the High Sparrow and the Council of Seven, Cersei devised a plan with Maester Qyburn. It was brutally efficient: take out all of her Kings Landing enemies all at once by setting off the wildfire underneath the Great Sept of Baelor. Buh-bye Margaery, High Sparrow, Ser Loras, random Tyrells and more. While I think it’s great that there’s no more High Sparrow or Faith Militant, I’m sorry about Margaery. I thought she was going to win the Game of Thrones.
The Queen’s revenge. Part of Cersei’s revenge plot involved confessing to all of crimes to the septa nun who was in charge of torturing Cersei and ringing that bell, “SHAME!” Cersei had the woman tied up and then let Frankenclegane do whatever he wanted to her. Ugh. I also loved that Qyburn devised a special death for Maester Scaredy Fart. Death by the little birds. Devastating, horrifying and satisfying.
First of her name. Cersei’s plan involved keeping King Tommen away from the sept, so he witnessed the explosion and the death of his Queen and the High Sparrow. Cersei’s plan likely involved keeping Tommen on the throne, but only she would have his ear. Tommen had other plans: he removed the crown and jumped out of the window, committing suicide. All of Cersei’s children are dead now. She has no political alliances left. But she seized power anyway, crowning herself Queen Cersei Lannister, first of her name. All that’s left for Cersei is death by Valonqar.
The Citadel. Sam and Gilly took an entire season to arrive at the Citadel. Sam was allowed into the library. The library had a crazy amount of books. Sam looked so happy. But how is it that the Citadel didn’t know Jon Snow was the Lord Commander, nor did they know that he had taken back the North for the Starks? The way information moves and then it doesn’t sometimes, that’s always been confusing to me about the world of Game of Thrones.
The Dornish Plot. I still don’t understand the point of anything in Dorne, but Olenna Tyrell, dressed all in black, arrives in Dorne to plot with the Martells/Sand Snakes. Olenna knows about what happened at the Great Sept (that was fast, right? And yet the Citadel is clueless?) and she’s just looking for revenge on Cersei. The Sand Snakes are like, sure, we’ll do whatever you want but you should also meet this guy, and it’s VARYS! Huzzah! So now the Dornish are aligned with the Tyrells and the Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons.
The Hand to the Queen. Dany says goodbye to Daario, her lover and friend. The plan is to go to Westeros and create some political alliances through marriage, and Dany can’t have her hot-bodied sell-sword around. So she leaves Daario in charge of Meereen while literally everyone else is going to Westeros. Dany finishes with Daario and then goes to speak to Tyrion, who was the one to advise her to break it off with Daario. Tyrion gets quite emotional about how much he believes in Dany (and I started to cry a little), and she tells him that she had something made for him: her own version of “the Hand to the Queen” pin.
The North Remembers. I honestly though Jamie Lannister was going to kill that decrepit old bastard Walder Frey. I feel like Jamie was thinking about it too, especially when Jamie told him off. But Jamie left Walder alone to enjoy his daughters/granddaughters/whatever. And that’s when a young woman came with some meat pie for Walder Frey. “Your sons are here,” she told Walder Frey, motioning to the pie. The Girl had served Walder his two sons. The Girl takes off her face and it’s Arya Stark. She tells him her name before she slits his throat. The Girl has learned much. The Girl is back in Westeros!!
Littlefinger’s endgame. It does seem sort of anticlimactic that Littlefinger’s end-goal is to sit on the Iron Throne himself. He is the master manipulator, of course, but it felt like Sansa was about to laugh at him when he suggested that he should be king with Sansa as his queen.
R + L = J. Bran and Meera are dropped off by Hot Uncle Benjen somewhere close to the Wall. Bran decides he needs to finish seeing what happened to his father at the Tower of Joy, so he touches the weirwood tree and finally sees the past. Young Ned Stark finds his sister Lyanna in a bed of blood. She makes him promise. “Promise me, Ned.” And a baby boy is handed to Ned. The baby is Jon Snow, the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.
The King of the North. Ser Davos confronts Melisandre about the death of Princess Shireen. Davos wants Melisandre dead, but Jon doesn’t want that. Jon orders Melisandre to ride south and never return. Jon seems nervous about attempting to take Ned Stark’s place, and Jon even tries to convince Sansa that she is truly the Lady of Winterfell. Lady Lyanna Mormont has other ideas though. During a meeting with all of the prominent houses allied with Winterfell, Lady Mormont – THIS AMAZING CHILD – shames grown men into supporting the true King of the North, Jon Snow. And the men fall in line! Where Robb Stark was The Young Wolf, Jon is called The White Wolf. And he is the King of the North. With Sansa at his side, although the looks between Littlefinger and Sansa were disturbing.
Stormborn Rides Again. The final image from the finale… Dany and her fleet of ships, the Dothraki, the Second Sons, Tyrion, Varys, one of the Sand Snakes (right?), all headed to Westeros. Three dragons fly overhead, then ahead of the ships.
Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.
The secret’s out! The fan theories were right.
Cerise is evil incarnate and Tommen, Oh, Tommen, you simple thing. Anyway, seems like prophesies are real–or at least they are self-fulfilling. Arya is on a killing streak–vengeance is hers.
This was a pretty great finale after about a string of four or five lousy episodes.
–TheRealPinky
I keep going back to Arya’s list and Cersei is on that list! I think Arya will have the satisfaction of finally ending Cersei’s life.
I adore Cersei, but she truly is evil. When she entered with all of her guards, I turned to my husband and said, “She’s going to sit her butt on that Iron Throne!” And she did!
Last night’s episode was so satisfying for so many reasons!
Think it will be Jamie. He killed the Mad King for what wanted to do. Cersi actually used the Wildfire. There has been tension between them for the last few seasons, he has been a bit more separate form her since his adventure with Brienne. It will be Jamie or even Tyrion. One of the two.
I think Jamie knows too, that she’s about to die now that she sits on the iron throne. She’s stupid and crazy. You may be right that he ends her life.
Nope, sorry, this is GRR Martin (aka Satan!!) we’re talking about. Arya will work her way through her list successfully til she’s face to face with Cersei then just when we all think she has her and we’re all rooting for Arya she’ll get killed (by Frankenmountain or Cersei herself or by a chandelier falling on her head, who knows! Martin likes to mess with his audience).
THEN Jamie will step in and kill Cersei because she’s insane.
I’m calling it. I’m putting money on it!
@Miffy… I second you! She will get all the way to the bottom of her list only to have some spectacular twist of fate rob her of her great revenge. Or maybe she will murder Jaime then steal his face and kill Cersei disguised as Jaime.
With this series, it can go either way, which is why I love it!
GRR Martin has nothing to do with the TV series. I don’t think it will be Arya that kills Cercai. It will be Jaime. The prophesy is “Cersei is death by Valonqar”. Valonqar is Valyrian for “little brother”. The means either Jaime or Tyrion. I think it’s Jaime.
The prophecy!!
The young queen to take her place… was convinced it was Margaery, but then realized it must be Daenarys. But then that LOOK between Sansa and Littlefinger… made me wonder what to expect how the next two seasons will go.
Cersei gave me life last night. She sat like a spider for the two seasons, and then finally struck. NEver mind that she has left Kings Landing vulnerable by using the whole stash of dragonfire to explode the Sept, but WOW, how the woman lays waste to her enemies.
But Daenarys is everything to me now. Those dragons (and the shadows they cast) are everything to me as well.
Arya is incredible. Lainey predicted correctly on her amazingness. Sansa was slow to wake, but she is woke now and it is a spectacular thing. We have the women of Dorne, the grandmother of House Tyrell and Yara Greyjoy…and Lady Mormont! If only all kids could be like her, I wouldn’t dislike them so much. 🙂 it’s almost as if the series is making up for all the horrible rape, oppression and misogyny the former seasons have given us by putting so many women as the strongest players towards the end.
I cannot WAIT for season 7.
Also…still on about the prophecy… Cersei was predicted to die at the hands of her younger brother… that could be Tyrion.. or, in whatever twist of fate, Jamie… thoughts?
This show, truly, has been some of the best television EVER. 🙂
@annaloo. I don’t think it will be Tyrion as that would be too obvious. Plus, I don’t believe the writers are not going to let him kill two women in a fit of anger. They love him too much for that. Jaime makes more sense. She sees him as an extension of herself and she actually trusts him. Cersei would never see it coming.
It’ll have to be Jaime, he’s the king slayer and has revealed himself to be much more compassionate than he’s given credit for. Plus with all the kids dead he’ll probably have some misplaced anger.
Battle of the bastards was so amazing. I want Jon snow to step up, be more proactive. There’s been so many lost, longing gazing from the last 2 episodes. And watch out for Sansa…..dun dun duuuuuunnnn
Maybe it will be Arya disguised as one of her brothers … 😉
Does anyone wonder if Sansa is now a potential contender for the queen who will dethrone Cersei?
I am assuming it’s not Arya or Yara bc the prophecy says “there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear”…. while Arya and Yara are just fine looking, they are never described as beauties in the book and Arya is even nicknamed Horseface.
It would be epic if Lady Mormont dethroned Cersei, but I know that’s a stretch!
@cd3 I think it’s entirely within the realm of possibility that Sansa is also on the board as the young queen that will dethrone Cersei. I still think it’s likely Daenarys, but it doesn’t mean I’ll be surprised if it turns out to be Sansa!
Cersei always believed “the young queen” was Margaery and she has always discounted Danys. She is in for a rather large surprise. Cersei may have an infantry and a cavalry and some ships that didn’t burn on the Blackwater, but Danerys has an infantry, a calvary, an armada, and an air force.
I wondered last night if Sansa would marry Jon….
@lilacflowers, I agree on the surface Dany has it all. She seems like a shoo-in… which is why I worry. Cersei pretty much singlehandedly took down the high sparrow, the faith militant, the septa, the Tyrells AND took the iron throne. With no army, calvary, armada or infantry. Just her devious mind and two supporters. Cersei was down and out, awaiting trial and yet she is on the throne. Maybe not for long, but I worry that Dany is being set up too fail… as in “too big to fail.”
Am I the only one who noticed that the chandeliers in the Citadel are the golden bands from the credits? It was a nice touch
I didn’t notice that. Good eye! The opening credits are amazing, and this detail impresses me even more!
@mebe I did! Which of course has me wondering if that’s significant or just a fun detail.
I noticed that too, which made me wonder if Samwell might be the actual ‘writer’ of the Song of Fire and Ice?? I know it’s trivial, but kind of cool…
Yes, they are. And the thing next to the concierge desk (I’m calling that maester who thought Sam was so irregular the concierge) was one as well.
It’s an astrolabe and I think the one in the opening titles is supposed to be the one from the Citadel, although we’ve never seen it before. I thought the library scene was very amusing with the humourless, pedantic pencil pusher at the front desk. They get information from maesters sending out ravens, which hasn’t been a priority lately. They’re stuck in their own little world and way behind on many events.
Lady Mormont!
Where are Brienne and Pod and have they found Gendry?
Did Arya reunite with Hot Pie for help making that pie?
You know what, as soon as Lady Mormont opened her mouth, I didn’t even CARE that R+L=J anymore. That girl is BOSS. Lady Mormont for the Iron Throne. OMG. Give that child an Emmy RIGHT NOW. That scene alone earned it. And those men toed the line! I can’t get over it. It took me hours to calm down last night, and now I’m getting all worked up again.
I don’t feel like Jon was nervous about taking Ned’s place. I believe he truly has been so convinced that he is “less” because of his bastard status. That he is not worthy. But Davos and Tormund were right. He is a man other men will follow. I did not see that one coming though. We all thought they were going to bring down the wall (which they did foreshadow), but instead they give us a new King of the North. I wonder if Dany talking of marrying for alliances is foreshadowing her marriage to the King of the North… that is true Targeryan fashion. I hope those looks between Sansa and Littlefinger were more of Sansa being smug because the people ARE in fact willing to support a bastard, despite what Littlefinger said, and not the beginning of a plot between the two of them.
As soon as Tommen stepped off that ledge, my husband and I started talking about who would be the heir to the throne at that point. He said “it’s her now right?” Meaning Cersei. And I was all, well I guess it’s whoever seizes the throne at this point. And yet I still didn’t foresee Cersei crowning herself. So now we’ll have the Real Housewives of Westeros, while Cersei simply smacks down anyone who says something mean about her because that’s her MO. No thought to strategy, diplomacy, or the long game.
That whole scene with the Citadel was ridiculous. Freaking EVERYONE knows Jon Snow is the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch except the Citadel? Olenna Tyrell can make it to Dorne moments after her entire family is murdered, but the Citadel somehow doesn’t know Jon Snow was named Lord Commander ages ago?? Okay.
Aren’t Jon and Dany related? Like aunt and nephew… not that that was a problem for Cersei and Jamie, or anything…but, still.
Yes, Jon is Dany’s nephew (his father was her brother) and Sansa’s first cousin (his mother was her aunt). Now all the ladies are going to be fighting over who marries him to further their own familial dynasty.
Dany is his aunt, but the Targeryans are famous for wedding their own siblings, so marrying her nephew wouldn’t even garner a side eye.
Sorry: what does R&L=J mean??
Jon is a man Lady Mormount will follow. That is everything.
Nikki, Rhaegar Targeryan + Lyanna Stark = Jon Snow. They are his parents. It’s been the prevailing theory on Jon’s true parentage.
My thought exactly, I’m like did Arya learn pie making from Hot Pie 😂
She previously had no skills in domestic arts like cooking or sewing
If this scene was coming, it was brilliant to have incorporated the pie making skill in exacting her revenge now. Arya is amazing, Shakespeare would be proud of that pie.
But she said it was hard to make the pie, she didn’t pretend it was easy. I guess Sexy Jesus and the Many Faced God are allowing Arya to use the magic she’s learned? I’m sort of curious about that still? She basically reclaimed her identity and Sexy Jesus was just like “Okay.” and smiled knowingly. Does this mean Arya Stark is no one? I just don’t know what Ja’gaar’s motivation is to help Arya and he has the whole series, I think he’s more than made up for the fact she saved his life at this point. Oh well. She’s a bad ass. I am reeeeeaaallly hoping that Dany does not marry Jon Snow. That is too predictable and would be the biggest let down of all time. To me, that would be like… The White Walkers might as well all come back to life and start singing the “Frozen” theme song while every dead character joins the wedding ensemble and little birdies hold a banner over Jon and Dany that says ‘Tru love 4ev’. Yuck. I’m wondering how Dany’s army is going to hold up against the White Walkers, to me, Dragons vs White Walkers, Fire vs Ice, Darkness vs Light, is clearly the “War to come”. We’ll see. Glad to see all the matriarchy goin on.
THE WHITE WOLF!
THE KING OF THE NORTH!
THE SONG OF ICE AND FIRE!
What a great episode. But what was the name Lyanna whispered in Ned’s ear? It definitely wasn’t Jon! What’s his royal name? A girl must know.
Lady Freaking Mormont steals the scene again! She’s such a boss!
Daario friendzoned. Arya scratching a name off of her list. Poor Tommen.
And last. Dammit. The Mad Queen, Cersei! You will get your comeuppance. You and your smug face!
If you turn on the subtitles, she’s whispering “Robert can’t find out, or he’ll kill him”
That I did hear her say. It was before that if you watch that clip. She begins by saying ” his name is” then it’s inaudible.
Yes. That is what was said. A lot of people didnt hear that evidently.
I miss half the stuff you Celebitchy friends all notice: you are magnificent, the best! I enjoy readin every single comment the day after the show as the dessert to the show’s main course!!!
My husband chose that moment to speak… honestly. The audacity of some people. So I’m grateful for these message boards.
Funny, I was just thinking about last week’s skit “Game of Jones” that had Leslie Jones and Seth Meyer watching the Battle of the Bastards together.
It was funny, and I really enjoyed watching her reactions of the episode. I kept thinking, “oh how FUN to watch with her! She ‘s so funny, calling all these characters out, being crazy, etc”
and then I realized, I was good bc I’d already watched the episode…in silence.
I THINK I WOULD HAVE PUNCHED HER IF I WATCHED THE SEASON FINALE WTH HER. @Rachel: your comment about your husband cracked me up, but also made me realize that I would have gone into stage 4 meltdown on someone talking during the finale!!! How do ppl watch this show in a bar??? No!
@annaloo, I focus on the show while it is on but read Leslie’s tweets later. She’s hilarious. Her comments about Cersei’s dress last night are everything.
Ok @lilacflowers, I read her twitter. I take back almost everything except for going nuclear if someone talks during GoT. I will still do that. However, I am LOVING Leslie’s tweets — they are hilarious – THANK YOU
Yeah, I am still trying to figure out what his name might be. I mean, most of the Targaryens have similar names (Aegon, Rhaegar, etc) but I doubt Lyanna would have gone that route. Maybe it’s a name that the Starks used a lot? Dammit, I want to know! LOL.
Honestly, I can’t believe yet another season has come to an end. I can’t wait for next spring, I want to see Arya get all of her revenge. Cersei better watch out, A Girl is coming for her.
I’m leaning towards Aegon because Jon works as a nickname (in the same vein that Ned works as a nickname for Ed).
it did look like it started with an A… I just hope it’s not Arys lol
But Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon with Elia Martell.
Urgh, I got my names confused. So sorry! I meant to say I’m betting on his name being Aemon.
There’s some GOT history with princely brothers being called Aemon and Aegon. One Aemon gave up the throne for his better-suited brother, the other Aemon died protecting his brother/King.
NO BOLTON BABY! Thank you tiny Jesus.
Can Varys apparate?
Also, how did they get Wun Wun’s body out of Winterfell.
LOL
no, you can see that the ships are from the Greyjoy’s, the Martells and and the Tyrells. So Dany sailed to Dorn, gathered up the rest of the crew & fleet (and Varys) to then sail to Kings Landing, which is when the scene was shot.
Basically Dany is the one who teleported through time & space, not Varys. But I quite like that the timeskip doesn’t take place in the gap between seasons, but is already implied to have taken place.
Well, it’s officially Winter and they need to conserve food, soooo….
In episode 9 when they show the scenes after Ramsay is killed, with the Stark sigil banners being hung in Winterfell, there’s a great bloody indented spot where Wun Wun fell in the Winterfell courtyard… am assuming he was dragged out by the surviving forces and buried with great dignity. Wun Wun deserved it.
Uhh no he was definitely burnt! Aint nobody want to fight a zombie giant!
I’d also be a lot of work to dig a giant-size grave in frozen earth. 😉
I know, I know… but I need to envision him lying peacefully somewhere… not being changed into a zombie giant whitewalker or burned up.
The only thing the show left me wanting was a Brienne update. Other than that – perfection. Loved every minute of it, didn’t want it to end. Really can’t decide which scene was my favorite…
Sad not to see Brienne or the Hound.
….and no Hound or the brotherhood. Other than those slights, it was a perfect episode.
And I have to add, where is Ghost? I really really want to know.
Helping Gendry row his boat.
All the way to wherever Hot Pie is, for a warm meal and a rest in front of his warm oven!
The only thing that really truly bothered me was the little birds killing Maester Pycelle. Was it really necessary for Qyburn to turn those children into murderers?? Other than that I thought it was amazing.
That was actually from the books, only they were working for Varys, who reappeared from nowhere, and they killed Cersei’s Uncle Kevan too.
This for me was the best episode of the whole series, since season 1.
The music was fantastic.
Danaerys and Tyrion were amazing together.
When she gave him the hand of the Queen’s broach i cried. I mean.. his face was the result of 6 seasons of disappointments all wiped away by a simple non predictable gesture. he was speechless and we all know that is pretty much impossible for Tyrion.
I hope Tyrion and Jamie will meet again after jamie will obviously kill Cersei.
Arya and Frey. man i wasn’t expecting that. That was so good. so so very good and satisfying.
Jon finally being the king in the North.. well i just hope he will get to Littlefinger before he can mess with Sansa’s head. She is not happy that Jon is king in the North. I can’t believe she still lets him fuck her brain up.
Lyanna Mormont is what I live for now. And for Lady Olenna’s revenge.
did The mountain rape the Septa? Or he is just guarding her.
It wasn’t very clear.
Tommen.. well.. he had his king’s landing jumping off that window. we’re better off without him. Now Cersei, who she has nothing or nobodyto humanize her anymore, will be the next evil character, maybe more than Ramsay or Goffrey.
All i want is for Arya and Jon to meet again.
The Mountain was torturing the Septa.
I’m so grateful we did not see any detailed scenes of that. Seeing the Mountain without his helmet was enough to give me nightmares…
I think Sansa was happy with Jon being king of the North, she told him in a previous scene that he was a Stark to her and she didn’t see him as a bastard, if I’m remembering correctly. I think Sansa was giving Littlefinger a “I told you so” look, and he was likely plotting some type of revenge since she’s not giving him what he wants.
Oops, *king in the North* 😃😃😉
Sansa smiled as they were yelling King in the North. She looked over at Littlefinger and knew he was plotting something.
That’s what I got too when I watched it with my daughter for the second time. I think Sansa realizes Littlefinger could be a threat to Jon at some point. She looked genuinely happy for Jon until she saw Littlefinger.
LF wants the Iron Throne and will do whatever it takes to get it. Sansa’s no longer the naive girl she used to be. She even told Jon she would never trust LF.
This will be a good story for next season.
I can’t wait to see what the Sansa/Littlefinger plot takes us – she knows what he did to her and her family and she will be bidding her time until she can take her revenge on him. She’s going to play him like he’s played her. She and Lady Mormont are going to be the real power behind the King in the North.
It will be interesting to see how and when he (Jon) finds out about his parentage and how Dany reacts to it, that her nephew is a Stark. Will she embrace him or reject him?
I cannot wait for Season 7.
ON one hand, I want to see LF get out-played at his own game, and HARD. On the other hand, I want the series to end with Varys and LF sitting on the ruins of King’s Landing having a beer (or an arbor red, if you will) and congratulating themselves on a game well played.
WOW…it was amazing!
1. I knew Margaery wasn’t as clever as she or her grandmother thought she was. She was in over her head with the High Sparrow…the man doesn’t respect women, so why would he respect her? She should’ve let Olenna save her. But that look in her eye when she knew it was all over was heartbreaking.
2. Will Jon and Sansa be the end game rather than Jon and Daenerys? I know people are reading that scene with Jon and Sansa differently, but I think she wanted him to lead, and I also think she knows Littlefinger will try to kill him. He made a mistake telling Sansa his big plan.
I thought Sansa was happy about Jon, also, though I thought she was going to play along with Littlefinger a bit longer. I can’t believe LF wants the Iron throne. That is his end game? Jon, I hope, knows to watch his back.
With what right would he claim the Iron throne?
I can’t see anybody being less fitting for that role.
Jon deserves to be there. Not even Sansa deserves it that much.
@paolanqar, he would usurp it. Robert Baratheon had no right to it either but he took it.
I thought everyone always knew that was his end game. Always. The plan was to let all the other claimants take each other out, leaving him to seize the throne when all the power players had been taken out, as lilacflowers said.
Robert Baratheon’s grandmother was Targaryen. His claim was through that bloodline as the next male descendant… After he killed Rhaegar, the true heir.
@MissMelissa, but Viserys was the next in line after his brother and his brother’s children were killed by Robert and the Mountain
@Rachel-I am 100% positive Littlefinger mentioned his end game somewhere in the show or the books.
@Lilacflowers, that’s correct. Which was why he was the usurper.
I always thought it was a straight up overthrow by another house, but Robert Baratheon’s claim was almost a war of the roses type situation, with one distant branch with royal bloodlines trying to replace the other and snuff them out. He actually had some hereditary justification, although male heirs to the current line were still alive.
Viserys, had he lived, would have been the next claimant after Tommen’s death. Danerys, the younger sister, is the actual next in line. No Baratheons, no challenges.
I guess an oversimplified metaphor was Elizabeth I and King James of Scotland. Elizabeth executed her cousin, Mary, Queen of Scots, for plotting her overthrow. In the end, Elizabeth died without issue and made Mary’s son, James, her heir.
And so it should be here. Danerys should be the undisputed queen now that all Barathons are dead.
Cersei has ZERO claim. No rights whatsoever.
I saw some people speculating on Jon and Sansa because Jon and Dany seem so obvious at this point after the L + R thing that everyone saw coming from a mile away. Cringe worthy, but then again incest is the name of the game in GOT. I read her look at Littlefinger that way too…like it was more of a “cr*ap, what is he plotting now” but supposedly some of the BTS videos make it seem like they are plotting a Jon vs. Sansa thing next season…which is a bit of a shame imo. Sansa’s shown a lot of character development; if she goes up against Jon, they’ll kill her off the show since John’s the Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Mary Sue of the series.
Dream scenario (which will never happen lol): Dany ruling most of the south, Yara ruling the Iron Islands, and little Lady Mormont ruling the north.
@Div “Dream scenario (which will never happen lol): Dany ruling most of the south, Yara ruling the Iron Islands, and little Lady Mormont ruling the north. ”
I like the way you think. I am totally shipping Dany and Yara though, so I would have them to get married and co-rule. Lady Mormont can totally rule the North though.
Yeah, I’m hoping we’ve seen the last of Jon vs. Sansa. And really, I don’t even think she was that deceitful with him.
@Aiobhan
Love the idea of Yara and Dany being a power couple and co-queens of the south.
@Talie
Yes, I don’t even think her not telling him about Littlefinger was that bad…she had no idea if he would show. Then again, I don’t really trust GOT writers to treat the women fairly…I could totally see them turning Sansa into a “traitor” and killing her off (which, to be far, wouldn’t even make her a traitor because she has a right to rule too).
Jon is the Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Mary Sue of the series, for sure and lacks charisma. The BTS videos are hinting at Jon Vs. Sansa which I saw coming from a mile away, because they are paralleling them with Theon and Yara. Theon gave up his claim as the rightful heir of Balon to back hers without question because he knew she was a better ruler. However it was Sansa who urged that Winterfell be freed from the Boltons and had to convince Jon to do so. It was Sansa who got the Vale army involved. It’s also Sansa who owes Littlefinger, whether she (or I) like it or not. With Bran and Arya’s whereabouts unknown, Rickon and Robb dead, Sansa right now should be the rightful ruler of Winterfell and that’s not what happened.
Bran definitely has to get to Winterfell as he’s going to tell Jon the deal about his parents and that should be interesting. And once he gets to WF, he should be King of the North.
But the best ruler of the North and who seems more like a Northern ruler than the surviving Starks is young Lyanna Mormont. Her calling out the Northern Lords was a terrific scene.
I do think though, once Jon finds out the truth, he will choose to be a Stark. I don’t think he goes for the Iron Throne at all.
Cersei really screwed her reign with the wildfire stunt. She has no allies other than Qyburn. I can’t see Jaime backing her anymore.
Well not everyone saw the L + R thing coming a mile away. Mr. Rose’s friend texted him after the show and he still didn’t get it. Even after the reveal. I’m starting wonder about him…
I told my husband Jon should marry Lady Mormont. He was horrified because she’s 11, but that’s how it’s done. In the books, everyone is much younger than they are portrayed on the show. Dany was married to Khal Drogo at 11.
Obviously the marriage would be in name only, but that girl is BADASS. If an 11 year old can shame a bunch of grizzled, cold-hearted men into taking the knee, you need to lock that down.
Regarding Jon + Sansa – Apparently George R. R. Martin’s original outline of the series included end game being Jon + Arya (yuck). So some believe Sansa is taking Arya’s place in this. Sansa was never close with Jon like Arya was, but even now that they’re cousins ….. I just can’t. I would actually prefer Dany + Jon. They never met growing up, so have no sibling link. Aunt/nephew is a little gross, but Dany’s parents were siblings, so there you go.
@ Rachel, I think Bran and Lady Mormont. At least they’re closer in age and he should be the rightful Lord of Winterfell. 🙂
But Bran is the TER now. Even though he would be the rightful heir to Winterfell, I think he’s passed that up to serve a greater purpose.
I was uneasy with the look Sansa was giving at the end. She gave Jon a fake smile and although I was living the stupid look on Littlgingers face (he pridected they’d follow her, not the bastard from the South) I get the sinking feeling she will allow herself to be manipulated by Littlefinger. He is a master puppeteer and she shouldn’t underestimate him. Jon better watch his back!
I’m not sure the smile was fake, but I do think she’s ambivalent. If she were a man, it wouldn’t be a question. She is dismissed solely because she’s a woman, and we’ve seen the women do just fine with gaining power on this show. I hope she plays Littlefinger, but I’m not convinced (yet).
Yep. I feel like Sansa thinks she got robbed of the WInterfell take over, and thus will be making bad things happen with Littlefinger. He sure put his cards on the table when he spoke to Sansa!
Nah, Sansa won’t go up against Jon for Littlefinger!! She understands he’s a sleeze and Jon is her only surviving family that she knows is alive. LF can’t be trusted, she said so herself.
If only she had a true friend coming north to help with the coming war (cough cough *the FREAKIN HOUND!!*)
Seriously need a HoundHeavy season 7!!
If Sansa felt robbed of credit, the previous scene she had with Jon, saying he should get the main chamber would make no sense. Her whole arc with Jon would make no sense.
I think she smiled like that because she knew LF was plotting something, and that it’s too early for celebrations.
I don’t think Sansa really cares about titles and prestige anymore. She became Lady of Winterfell the day she married Ramsey, and I guess that’s when she learned how empty such titles are.
And just as a separate point, I think soldiers would rather rally behind the person leading them into the fight, risking his life like all others, than a woman who simply stood back watching the thing happen (even if she ended up playing a pivotal role).
Sansa has never struck me as a power usurper or even someone who was interested in ruling; so if she makes a power play with LIttlefinger that would be unexpected, though not out of the question. I think Sansa is more concerned with maintaining safety and stability, however that will come for her. She has learned to keep an ace up her sleeve. However, I do not think she trusts Littlefinger anymore, but this newly hardened Sansa understands who people are and what they can do for or to her. LIttlefinger’s ambitions feel misplaced and overshadowed on the board now with the players that are present ( Cersei, Daenarys, Jon..) – I am placing my bet that LIttlefinger is killed before the series wraps.
But they didn’t follow Sansa. By all accounts the only house that answered the call was Mormont and they only got on board thanks to Davos.
I think Sansa could easily outplay Littlefinger… she just has to 1) reveal that he murdered Lysa Arryn, 2) reveal that he was the one who orchestrated her wedding to Ramsay Bolton, 3) manipulate / charm Robyn Arryn into marrying her – then the Vale and all its knights will be at her disposal and she can puppet Robyn to do whatever she wants. Littlefinger is nothing without the backing of the Vale Army… he has no title, no fortune, no real allies… he’s just a brothel owner whose currency is secrets and manipulation. Varys won’t side with him, and Varys has sided with Dany, Tyrion, House Tyrell, Dorne, Yara Greyjoy etc. Littlefinger already sided with the Lannisters to bring down Ned and it didn’t seem to make him any lasting alliances.
Sansa can have the Vale without LF.
I thought that whole conversation Marg had with sad sack, beaten down Loras, was why she acted the way she did. Any kind of fighting could be protracted and Loras needed immediate relief. I think she thought she could manipulate Tommen later on and take on the Faith once her brother was safe.
I agree, her first priority was to get Loras to safety.
Lady Mormont for the win!
The Sixlets made me get up at 6am so they could watch this before school. I think I deserve a dedication award.
My bf woke me up at 6 too to go to work so I watched then. It was worth it.
You deserve all the lemon drizzle!
You know what I find so interesting about Lady Mormont? Usually when you add a sassy child to your cast, they can come across as being bratty. But she is so awesome! Kudos to the young actress who plays her.
+1
As soon as she was done I looked at my husband and said, “do you still doubt the women are running the world”?
Methinks the Lady has a crush on the White Wolf
Excellent season finale. Arya revealing herself was everything and I loved seeing Cersei getting revenge on the septa, up until the mountain walked in.
not surprised about Cersei pulling all that of but i thought Margaery had some plan, she seemed to in the last episodes. makes it a bit more dramatic for her.
Sad for Tommen, he never stood a chance, everyone was using him. Not so different for Dany. Her scene with Daario and then Tyrion really showed the emptiness in her. she wants revenge and to rule? really, of course thats her motivation for all she is doing but she is realizing that she does not really care about anything or anyone any more.
Season 6 was great, i was a bit afraid it wouldnt be.
I was upset about Maergary. I was hoping she would be around for a while. I can’t believe they went back to Dorne. I did t like that storyline and now it’s back.
How is it that Varys was in Dorne and then on the fleet with danaerys?? Is he a time traveller?
Time passes inconsistently. Oleanna knew about King’s Landing already. I’m guessing the ships took a long time to get ready? Maybe the journey isn’t so long?
In this season, D&D are using the “different time lines/time passes inconsistently” excuse so often, it’s absurd.
She did have a plan but she didn’t know about the wild fire so she never got to enact her plan.
And I actually liked Lancel this episode.
Margaery’s plan was clearly flawed. The Sparrow made a deal to release her brother, but not before he mutilated him! She knew it was all over then.
She was so focused on outwitting the High Sparrow that she underestimated Cersei.
In some ways both she and the High Sparrow underestimated Cersei. The High Sparrow thinking Cersei would not have a trick up her sleeve and Margarey initially thinking Cersei would show up. Once Margarey realized that neither Cersei was coming for her own trial and Tommen did not show up, she knew something was up. It was sad to see her try to rush out of there with Loras and her father.
The best season finale to date–and maybe the best episode to date. Between Miguel Sapochnik’s direction and Ramin Djawadi’s haunting score, this episode was close to perfection. I do wish they ended with the White Walkers in view of the wall, but that’s my only small complaint.
This season was so much better than last season. I can’t believe it’s over. I swear I am going to re-watch this season all summer long.
And think about what is coming: Dany vs. Cersi. Cersi finding out that the Starks and Sansa now are in the north. Dragons in King’s Landing. The White Walkers making it to the wall and bringing it down. SO MUCH. Although, I am sad that there will be less episodes over the next two seasons.
The score was so different, and worked beautifully! It reminded me of the very beautiful and haunting Leftovers score at times.
The score was fantastic
have to agree. i didn’t get teary eyed watching any of the scenes, but, man, the music gave me massive goosebumps. cello is such a beautiful instrument. well played!
benjen, you hot bastard, how is bran gonna move around now? at least you could have made them some sort of pallet for meera to drag around.
sansa seemed happy for jon. and went all ‘sh!t, not again…’ when looking and littlefinger. or she’s a mighty fine actress with jon because being married to joff and ramsey totally screwed her up in head
The score reminded me of the episode of the West Wing where the cello music (believe it was Bach, played by Yo Yo Ma) triggered Josh’s PTSD. Similar feel of the lovely, spare music with something tightly coiled and ferocious underneath it.
I agree that the score was particularly beautiful this episode. It was especially haunting how they DIDN’T use sound, like during Tommin’s death. I found that scene even more jarring with the complete lack of music. It was so well done, I can’t wait to watch this episode again!
As I was watching–even the very beginning–I was thinking the score for that episode will win an award. Amazing.
DANY IS FINALLY LEAVING FOR WESTEROS!!! That final scene with the Dornish ships, the Greyjoy ships, and her dragons had me smiling from ear to ear. I also loved the scene with Dany and Tyrion and him being made the Queen’s hand. He genuinely looked happy with the gesture. When she said she was impatient to get things moving, I was like, “yeah, you and everyone else.”
Apparently now time travelling dust exists in this world that they did not have in the previous seasons because somehow Arya got to wherever Walder was in two episodes and somehow Varys was on Dany’s ship at the end when we just saw him in Dorne.
I just can’t have Jon’s boring and predictable ass be the savior of all of westeros… Dany, please come usher your nephew off the canvas. That whole ass kissing scene for Jon was just too much. I just wish they (the other families) acknowledged that Sansa also had a part in them winning, not just Jon. Those families had a reason to hate the Starks, and they had a whole episode dedicated to them telling them to their faces why they hated the Starks not even three episodes ago.
I think him not killing the red woman is going to bite him in the ass. Maybe they try to redeem her by somehow being the bridge between Dany and Jon so that they join together in the last season to fight the walkers.
I am genuinely worried about Sansa. I usually find her boring, but this turn of events has me intrigued. Little finger put her in another awkward position and I want to see how she fights her way out of this.
Arya Motoya is the real avenger of the red wedding.. not Jon. Jaime verbally smacking down Walder and then Arya putting him down for the final count was so fucking satisfying. I don’t think I will be eating a meat pie.. like ever.
How is Ceresi Queen? Jaime was fired from the Kings Guard, so technically he should be next in line. I guess it really does not matter in the long run if Cersei or Jaime is on the throne when Dany lands, they both are going to die.
I like Jon but I feel like they’ve turned him into this sort of Mary Sue like character. He’s also stupidly noble like Ned was and I feel like that would bit him in the butt if he was any other character. It did suck that everyone basically ignores Sansa and treats her like a pretty face even though she played a major part, but I still don’t think she is going to scheme against Jon after her “you were always a Stark bit.” I don’t even think she wants to rule anymore but I do think she wants revenge against the Lannisters and recognition as a person with agency.
I also loved the Dany and Tyrion scene.
Think Jon is the Messiah of the series. He will end being the most intricate part of it. A flawed messiah.
He didn’t kill the Red Woman, but he did show her mercy. That was the best he could do for her.
Cersei is Queen because she is Tommen’s only surviving known relative. Tommen was officially a Baratheon, not a Lannister, so there Jaime wouldn’t be in the line of succession. They still couldn’t admit in public that Cersei’s kids were Jaime’s and not Robert’s. Treason and all that.
I don’t think that’s the case, Lilacflowers. Cersei’s queen because she had the biggest army (while Jaime was gone), not because she actually has a claim to the throne. She’s not in the line of succession.
If they followed the rules, the crown would go to Roberts next male relative (even if it is a really distant one) or they would hold a Great Council to decide who becomes king.
Well, that is true as well, but I was answering the “why not Jaime?” question. Cersei and Joffrey killed all of Robert’s offspring, except Gendry who has been lost in a row boat for two years. And Stannis and Renly are dead too.
@vallois I think the biggest Wasteros army is the Tyrell’s one and they are siding Dany now. Cersei ‘s got the IT, the Mountain and his handless brother.
@lilacflowers is correct. Cersei is the Queen because she’s Tommen’s only surviving relative. His siblings are dead. Margarey is dead. He left no heirs. Technically his mother would be his heir. Or his father, but that’s officially Robert-who is dead, but technically Jaime, who is not and if it becomes knowledge that he was the father of Tommen, he’s a dead man too.
Robert Baratheon has no surviving trueborn heirs. Stannis, Renly and Shireen are all dead. Gendry is still rowing somewhere and is unlikely to be legitimized. And if Shireen were alive, she would probably have a good claim on throne but Cersei would NEVER allow that.
@lilacflowers
Robert might have some great-cousins or something like that, that’s what I mean with distant relatives. And Genry could never be king anyway imo because he can’t be legitimized (unlike Jon or Ramsay). A Great Council would be more likely though.
I agree with you on the Jaime part, of course.
@Rocio The Tyrell army wasn’t in KL though, were they? And even if they were, they don’t have a leader at the moment (except for Olenna), that’s what I meant. Biggest forces in King’s Landing that are able to act immediately.
@mom2two no, that’s not how it works in ASOIAF and it has been stated in the companion books. At least in the books, they’d other look at Lyonel Baratheon’s issue or hold a Great Council.
Cerise’s queen because she had a chance, power and she used it. Not because she has a claim by heritage.
Robert’s entire claim was through the Targaryen line. His grandmother was Targaryen and sister to one of the Kings.
If his line dies without heir, and his siblings (who have the same Targaryen claim) die without issue… Dany is next in line.
Cersei has no claim. None.
I believe Cersei is Queen because there was nobody around to stop her.
wasn’t cersei queen mother while all her kids were alive? so if they all expire without any progeny that makes her the queen again with the condition that also her dead hubs relatives are mia, or it works differently?
Do the dragons have a ship each to rest on? They can’t possible fly non stop to Westeros, can they?
Like Cersei would care if she has the right to the throne or not. She has in her own mind.
Maybe they can just back float on the water if they need a rest?
That would be a sight. Or maybe like gigantic ducks?
Doing the backstroke.😊
Yes, Arya was the one who avenged the Red Wedding, not special snowflake Jon. Sansa’s and Littlefinger’s part in winning the day should have been acknowledged by the Northern Lords. And if Jon is smart, he doesn’t really trust house Cerwyn, Manderly or Glover.
Ramsey had nothing to do with the Red Wedding. His father did and Ramsey killed him. Tywin planned it and was killed by Tyrion.
Arya killed the middleman, not the guy who planned it or the guy who killed Robb and took Winterfell. It’s actually weird that Roose wasn’t on her list. I’m not surprised they backed Jon – the North values leaders who fight alongside their men rather than commanding from afar. It’s fine with me because he’s the eldest child now. I don’t think being a bastard should matter, he should have been ahead of Sansa and Bran anyway. It’s more of an issue that he isn’t Ned’s son, which they don’t know. It will be interesting to see what happens when him being a Targaryen comes out.
Sorry to be finicky, but it’s King IN the North, not “of”. And Jaime, not Jamie.
Yes, in not of. And if he is Rhaegar’s legitimate son, he truly is the king AND he’s in the north.
At the end, with Dany on the ship, it wasn’t one of the Sand Snakes, it was Missandei.
Dany and Tyrion made me cry as well. So happy for Tyrion!
IMO Sansa’s look at LF was mistrust. She knows what he is capable of. I think her dreams of queendom are over. She wants revenge.
I agree. I think Sansa has finally grown up. She didn’t want her parents bedroom. She wants to get back at LF for giving her to Bolton.
Yeah, I get the feeling that being Queen is not high on her priority list as much as survival.
Plus, LF basically revealed his plan to her which was stupid of him on so many levels. He’s already in a very vulnerable position with her – she knows he murdered Lysa Arryn. He’s also put himself in a position of being reliant on her lying for him to the Vale lords about how she came into Bolton possession, which she is much less likely to do now since Ramsay was a sick bastard who abused her horribly. Granted, he brought the Vale in the nick of time but his hold on the Vale is tenuous at best. The vale Lords despise him and she is in a position to pull the rug from under his feet here by revealing that he killed Lysa and sold her to the Boltons (he may have granted her the “illusion” of a choice about marrying Ramsay but he only presented it when she was effective isolated from any allies).
I know it is very popular to hate on Sansa but her entire arc is about rejecting ambitions about power. When she was young and naive and that that people were essentially decent, she dreamed of being Queen and living happily ever after. That dream turned out to be a poisoned one and I seriously doubt that she wants to be queen anymore. Her story is now about making herself and her family safe. LF tipped his hand here and that is going to be his downfall. She’s his blind spot because he is obsessed with her as the second coming of Catelyn, the women he couldn’t have.
I really like what you said. She even said that when she was younger she dreames about being someone else (probable a princess ir queen) but now she wants her family back or whatever is left of it. I think she prefers the safety of Winterfell than the Iron Throne. LF will try to play them against each other but with the WW coming (not just the Winter) he will end up as a war casualty (or at least I hope so). The South thinks of IT but the North knows what’s coming.
When she was a cossetted and protected child she basically had Westerosi dream of being a Disney princess. That dream died with her father. After that her whole story has been about staying alive (and getting revenge on Ramsay this season).
I don’t understand why people continually insist on interpreting everything she does maliciously. None of the Stark children are the same as they were before tragedy struck yet Sansa is the only one that many fans won’t forgive youthful and naive (and sometimes desparate) mistakes. Perhaps that has something to do with the fact that she were in conflict with Arya before the shit hit the fan and that she refused to appreciate Tyrion because he’s a Lannister (which IMO is perfectly understandable given the situation).
But here’s the thing… do we really know that LF revealed his plan? He just revealed something to Sansa, but I seriously doubt that was the entirety of his plan. LF is too cunning for that….
halfpint,
I think you give ShowLF waay to much credit – he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is and he has mainly succeeded by operating under the radar of the high and mighty. As Lord Protector of the Vale he cannot really skulk about unnoticed in the shadows anymore and he has clumsily been making enemies of the Vale Lords and now of Sansa. He’s doomed.
He’s smarter in the books but even there he is starting to operate from a position of acknowledged power that he hasn’t occupied before. He can no longer rely on people ignoring and underestimating him. There’s a difference in playing the game from the supposedly insignificant the postion of master of Coin (+ brothel owner) and the politically important position as Lord Protector of the Vale. His new position changes the perception people has of him to a certain degree. Now his enemies/antagonists know he is player and in the past he relied on people not even recognizing him as a player. This is a crucial difference and I don’t think he is smart enogh to recognize this.
Furthermore, in terms of narrative structure Sansa has been set up as his blind spot – something that most likely will be his undoing. While GRRM likes to play around with tropes he is till dependant on classic narrative structures – and Sansa being LF’s blindspot due to his obession with her as a Catelyn replacement is a classic in this regard.
He ought to have been dead in season 2 when he revealed to Cersei that he knew about her incest. She had him apprehended but changed her mind because of plot reasons. That’s how dumb Show LF is. The show is coming to an end – there isn’t time for yet another overly complicated plot within a plot – narrative economy needs to be observed at this point in the story. Fans love to speculate but they tend to overly complicated theories.
True… I do seem to be conflating the two. And yes, as I was typing the question, I thought I might be giving more credit than what is due. However, this is the guy (in the book at least) has been revealed to be the genesis of many different incidents. So regardless of whether of whether he is smart or not, or whether or not he is smart enough to recognize that he doesn’t have the same position he once had – he is someone that has more than one plan AND keeps more to the breast than not. However, points taken on his blind spot of Sansa (aka, young Catelyn) and the amount of remaining episodes we have left.
BookLF is certainly smarter than ShowLFG. However, I also think that the fans have a tendency to build him up into this incredible mastermind, which I think is grossly overestimating his abilities. He is a ruthless and clever gambler who has taken full advantage of his dynastically and politically unimportant status in KL – but, he has also been very lucky so far that most of his high-stakes gambles have payed off. Regardless, in the end he is lucky as long as the plot requires him to be lucky (since the story is far more plot than character driven) but I’m of the opinion that that GRRM is setting Sansa up to be his Achilles heel – both because he is obsessive about her and because he doesn’t understand her at all! For some reason he thinks she is ambitious and power hungry (likely because he projects his own desires and ambitions onto her as his “perfect” mate) when she’s really only wanting to be safe and loved. She isn’t even really vengeful in the books – she just wants to be safe, to be reunited with her family and be loved for her own sake instead of her claim.
We need to remember that in the books, LF does NOT deliver Sansa to the Boltons. In fact, it’s a fake Arya Stark that is delivered to be married to Ramsay Bolton (who I think is really Jeyne Poole). Sansa is safe with LF in the Vale, masquerading as Alayne Stone.
IMO the big reveal of LF being entirely motivated by his “love” for Sansa and wanting to get the throne for himself is sloppy and downright stupid writing by the showrunners. I personally did not see any real love of LF for Sansa in the books. He recognizes her value in the game, her claim to the Winterfell seat, and the bartering chip she can be down the line, so he’s keeping her close. He’s not professing his love. He kisses her at the Aerie when he knows that Lysa will see them, to drive her into a jealous rage… not bc he loves Sansa. I think the whole show storyline of Sansa being his true love is dumb and very out of character for LF.
The plotline also contradicts the writing for LF in the show itself. In the famous “chaos is a ladder” speech in s3, LF says that “Some are given the chance to climb, they cling to the realm. Or the gods. Or love. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.”…. he serves only himself and his own ambition.
The only way I buy into the “LF loves Sansa” device is if he is telling Sansa what he thinks she wants to hear, given that when the series starts she’s naive and wants only to marry Joffrey (her prince) and be a princess eating lemon cakes all day. But I have to say that’s suuuuuper thin and not believable and underestimating Sansa’s evolution.
Sansa could have had herself set up as Queen in the North, Jon would have supported her and he tried to give her Winterfell but she declined. She also knows that Jon is going to be busy dealing with protecting the North but, through Brienne and Theon, she knows that Arya and Bran are out there somewhere and I suspect that she will make it her mission to find them and bring them home. She’ll also deal with keeping Littlefinger in line.
Also Littlefinger’s role of Master of Coin was not insignificant. Without him controlling the purse strings, Cersei has been spending madly. The Tyrells gave an influx of cash as well as the ability to feed the people of Kings Landing but that’s gone now. The riots in Flea Bottom for food will start again, especially now that it is winter, and she is heavily in debt to the Bank of Bravos. Mark Gatiss will probably come calling pretty early in Season 7 for payment of that debt.
I don’t think that LF “loves” Sansa either. I think he is basically incapable of loving anyone. He is, however, obessed with her because she looks very much like Catelyn and he has never gotten over not getting her. His obession is very apparent in the books and made extra creepy because he has her masquerading as his daughter, whom he occassionally touches and kisses like no father should kiss his daughter. It sort of implies that his obsession with her is a creepy mix of her as a Catelyn clone and her as the daughter he and Catelyn could have had.
I think his play is a bit similar in the books but he installs a fake Stark in Winterfell because at that point Sansa is still in Lannister hands and because she is too valuable a piece to put in real physical danger. I suspect that he wants to take the Vale forces North to mop op after the Stannis-Bolton battle on the pretext of saving a Stark and then install Sansa as Lady of Winterfell with him at her side.
I still think Sansa will be his downfall and I think that the clincher for her will be her learning that LF intrumental in her father’s fall and death. In this contect I find it very interesting that the show has confirm that Sandor Clegane returns. He and Sansa has a strange connection and I think that they meet again. Plus he was close enough to Joffrey to know LF’s role in Ned’s death.
@lilacflowers – yes, that’s true, she could have seized her opportunity and didn’t. It’s a good point that Sansa may turn her attention to finding Arya and Bran, and hopefully eventually taking down little finger.
@ArtHistorian – agree that LF has a creepy obsession with Sansa. I just always saw his character as being 100% motivated by ambition. And it will be very interesting if the Sansa / Hound connection is revived and explored. Esp since the Hound is connected to Arya now too.
At any rate, I’m finding Sansa to be the most interesting and nuanced character on the show right now, and mostly because no one is really sure what she wants.
maybe its just me, but Kit Harrington’s woe is my beauty makes me want to slap Jon all the way across the Narrow sea. even his little outburst with Ramsay wasn’t much help to endear him.
wish they’d crown Sansa. but the Marty Stueing of Jon Snow is only just beginning. Jon Stu?
whyyy GRRM whyyyy?
Speaking of slaps, I’d have one for Cersei’s mouth- her irritating elocution- particularly when she draws out a final consonant or syllable, with her mouth then briefly agape, bothers me so. Probably driven by her despicable character, but just grrrrr.
Jon=is a GOT Jesus. No matter how many time you want to slap him, he will end up being a big player in defeating the White walkers. Also, viewers forget Jon has not only beheaded those that betrayed him he also hung a few. He is vicious when he needs to be, gentle when he needs to be, a warrior when he need to be, that is a good leader. He has made some bad decision but overall he is a thoughtful leader that does step up if needed. He isn’t a blood rampaging monster bent on taking over the world, his mission is too defeat the White walker, protect the North, not rule. He rules as someone that wants to defeat them and not for the greed of a throne.
Good points, isabelle. In other words, he is the most like Ned Stark.
Go, Arya!
Go, Lady Mormont!
Just go, Cersei…..
Huzza!!!! We got confirmation at last! R+L=J!!!!
All of the episode was fantastic. Dany and Tyrion got me to tear up, Lady Mormont was badass and epic as usual, we got the biggest confirmation of the series and it is all set up for next season. The only thing that bothered me was Cersei getting her way once again but she’ll get hers. Margaery will be missed.
I think Jaime will end up killing Cersei…There will be a showdown between Cersei and Tyrion, in her arrogance assume Jaime will side with her, but when it comes down to it Jaime will kill her to save Tyrion.
With Zombie Mountain around, the only one who could possibly get close enough to kill her would be Jaime. He slayed one Mad King, now he must say the Mad Queen and it wouldl be very fitting.
I think it’s Jaime that will kill Cersei. I actually thought he was going to do it in last night’s episode, especially after Tommen’s suicide. I mean he is a Kingslayer after all.
And he is her little brother
All their children are dead. I think he will leave her and team up with Brynne or kill her. I can’t decide.
This is exactly what my SO said…he is the Kingslayer. You could tell how disgusted he was with her upon arriving back in KL and watching her assume the throne.
And he had just learned their third child died. Maybe it has sunk in that two of the three died as a direct consequence of her actions?
I agree that Jaime will off Cersei. He seems to be developing a fledgling conscience and budding moral dilemmas. I almost wish she would met her end at the end of Arya’s needle, though.
Can he strangle her with one regular and and one golden? That’s part of the book prophecy. I think they left it out of the show.
Size Does Matter, do you know what the one regular and one golden refers to? But, yeah, I think ultimately he will be put in a position to choose honor or his sister, and will choose honor.
One regular HAND and one golden. Dropped the H (like Taylor Swift is probably doing now).
Oh, wow, then it couldn’t be more clear (which is probably why the writers dropped it).
I can’t believe some people here are hating on Jon Snow? He’s had a crappy 5 seasons and people are turning on him cuz he’s finally getting some recognition. Though I will admit Sansa did deserve some of it as well. But to be fair to Jon, he did give Sansa her props and told her she was the one who got them the win. He was preparing the Lord’s Chamber for HER. It was only because of Lady Mormont’s speech that the North rallied behind Jon. And I’d honestly rather have it that way because Littlefinger has his claws in Sansa whether she realizes it or not. I do believe there will be a Trinity of some sort at the end. It won’t be just Jon being the savior of the world, although it has been confirmed that he is the Song of Ice and Fire with the R+L=J confirmation. The Dragon needs three heads. Dany Jon and possible Tyrion, who i think should be the person sitting on any throne that may be left. As Daario told Daenarys, he doesn’t see her sitting on a boring throne. She is a conqueror. Jon doesn’t seem interested in the Throne either, he is a reluctant hero and he is meant for greater things. Bran will need to find Howland Reed to help corroborate the story of his true parentage and lineage in order to get him support. However Tyrion, with his knowledge of politics and strategy and his time at Kings Landing would make him the better figurehead to sit on the Throne, while Dany Jon and Bran fight with a united army against the Whitewalkers.
Everyone on this show has had a crappy hand dealt to them in one way or another. Yes, Jon is a bastard, but he was also highborn and educated.
Dany was also highborn, but had to deal with having her parents taken away from her, being hunted into exile, an abusive brother, her husband raping her, losing her baby and constantly being threatened with one thing or another, but some people still shit on her and act as if she has had everything handed to her.
Tyrion was hated by both his sister and father and made a laughing stock in his own home. He is also a raging drunk.
Varys, Greyworm, and Missandei were slaves.
Arya and Sansa had both their parents slaughtered and then they were both flung to the wind.
Robb and Ned were stupid.
Even Cersei had a somewhat crappy childhood.
But Jon is the only one who has had it hard.
What Daario said really does not matter because Dany is a woman (a Queen no less) who can decide her own future and how she wants to navigate it, The word of a side piece who clearly wanted more than she cared to give him should mean little to nothing. Dany, for all her faults, is a good person and can be a good ruler. Dany may be stubborn, but she does eventually listen when you present her with a viable alternative. For some reason people do not seem to give her credit for that. To be fair, most people on this show with the right people behind them could be a good ruler, but that is not what this show is truky about.
Jon has been getting recognition: he was made lord commander of the nightwatch, he earned the trust of the wildlings, and alot of other things that I don’t care to remember right now. Just because his lineage was confirmed does not mean that he is the the song of ice and fire, it just confirms that he is both a Stark and Targ. The Fire could be Dany and he could be Ice, or the dragons could be fire and the walkers be the ice part.
There should not be a throne at the end of this series. This series has shown time and again the negative events that happen to anyone who sits on the throne and everyone connected to that person. What I am hoping is that after the war ends, any survivors try to form a coalition of equals or just go their separate ways.
Agree on the last part. The whole series is really an examination of a feudal system that is imploding from within. That is even more apparent in the books.
My point about Daario wasn’t to say that he is telling her what to do, but foreshadowing who Dany is. Sitting in the office micromanaging the 7 Kingdoms is not her calling. Hers would be to unite with the North to stop the biggest threat to human kind and forget about the petty wars over a throne that will mean nothing when the Whitewalkers break through.
I also stand behing Jon being the Song of Ice and Fire. Rhargar was a singer. He wrote songs and poetry. Jon would be the living incarnation of the Ice and Fire between R+L. Though I do think there are levels to this and Jon is just one aspect of the Song and the Whitewalkers vs Dragons another. I think that Dany can also be Azor Ahai and that the Prince that was Promised (“Promise me Ned”-Lyanna. “When I get back, I will tell you who your mother is. I Promise”,-Ned to Jon) can be a seperate entity in the same prophecy. I don’t buy that one is more important than the other. Bran imo is probably at this point more powerful than all of them with his ability and the whole paradox of space and time thing. But I do believe that all are necessary in bringing the WW down. I like both Dany and Jon equally. As well as Bran and Tyrion. They all fall into the “Cripples , Bastards and Broken Things” analogy that makes them prime to rising up and becoming hero’s. Though, I do think one will have to be sacrificed in the end to forge Lightbringer.
I think the third rider may be Tyrion, too. But what about Bran? There has to be a reason that the show only portrays Bran as a warg, not the other Starks, too. And the Three Eyed Raven told Bran who would never walk again, but he will fly. Can’t Bran warg a dragon?
I think there has to be a connection between Bran and a dragon–that line was too important. Dany, Bran, and Tyrion makes a lot of sense!
Great catch! I didn’t recall that statement from the three eyed raven (multiple kid interruptions weekly)- I like to watch AltShitX recaps/anaysis on youtube- and because of some of their speculation I was thinking it might be Tryion, but I do think you are on to something bigger here!
All I care about is if Tyrion will ride one 🙂
Everyone her talks about westeros. What about the war beyond the wall? Army of the dead is coming… Will the dragons burn them all to death? If dragon glass can kill the white walkers (?) dragon fire surely can.
I dunno if he can Warg into a Dragon, but he can warg into birds so that’s where the flying part comes in.
@maria 2 Exactly! All these petty squabbles over this uncomfortable chair mean NOTHING in the grand scheme of things! (except maybe to Littlefinger, who Varys said would rather see the realm burn as long as he was King of the ashes)
oh good grief, I meant to type “AltShiftX” on youtube. oopsie.
@maria 2, according to Westeros history in the books, earlier attacks south of the wall from the white walkers were defeated by Targaryen dragons. The tower where Bran, Hodor, Meera, Jojen and Summer hid from the Wildlings (when they saw Jon and Summer helped him escape) was built for a Targaryen Queen so she had a place to stay while fighting White Walkers.
Cersei will have to marry and have more babies to secure her legacy though (because that’s the way Westerosi Monarchy works). Will she force Jaime to marry her, propriety be damned? Or will she team up with Euron maybe? Euron and Cersei could have some HOT hate-sex…
I would very much like to see Euron have hate sex with someone (me)…
Anyway, I am curious how Euron will fit into this story line. From what GRRM read from his WInds of Winter chapter, he’s turning into a Ramsay like villain (and may literally turn into a sea monster).
I wonder if he has the dragonbinder and will use that when Dany arrives with her dragons.
Also I may be in the minority with this but I didn’t feel bad for Margery. I never liked her. She was an opportunist and a phony who was full of ish. She is the type of person IRL that I stay away from. She smiles in our face but plots behind your back in order to get what she wants and what she wanted was to be the Queen. That worked out so well for her. Which brings me to how Daario and as he is getting Friendzoned, kind of foreshadowing that Dany’s quest for the Throne may be a very lonely one. I bet you he wish Jorah was around now to commiserate with.
True about Margaery… but it was so fun watching her play the game of thrones.
I saw Margaery’s death coming, but it was sad she had to die along with all those others. She deserved better than that. Her character didnt serve much purpose now, though, with the High Sparrow’s and Tommen’s deaths being a certainty.
Extremely dissapointed in R+L=J. Such a stupid, predictable, telenovela-like twist. It was SO obvious, I was hoping the GoT writers would be clever enough NOT to do it, but there we go.
My favorite scene was when Dany said she kicked away a man who loved her and felt nothing. “Felt nothing”. Interesting choice of words coming from the queen who thinks the solution to all political problems is setting your detractors on fire. Are we sure Dany is really a heroine?
The episode was amazing, but this is still, by a landslide, the worst season to date. This season had exactly 3 great episodes – The Door and the last two. The rest were all very trite and poorly written. This fan remembers.
Did you want them to change Jon’s story? Because I’m pretty sure that’s going to be GRRM story as well.
Yes. Martin’s been laying that ground work for over twenty years. The show runners are hardly going to change it.
I would’ve loved it if, in the end, Jon was really a bastard and the son of a whore. See what the reaction from the public would’ve been – do you still have faith in this character, knowing hes not what you wanted him to be? Is he still the prince who was promised to you, knowing hes not a prince? Are all the things you’ve seen Jon do, nullified by this one thing he didnt choose?
They couldve done so without it being bad writing, really, since they only started implying that this season. All of the foreshadowing for this came from the books. And what GRRM does with his story is completely irrelevant. The show and the books are completely independent now.
They have been planting the seeds about Jon’s parentage since S1. Ned was careful to never call him his Son, but only as his blood. Ned’s attitude toward never telling Robert Baratheon who Jon’s real mother was and his defiance toward Robert’s order to assassinate Daenarys. Then there was Oberyn in s4 who told a slightly different chain of events of how Rhaegar ended up with Lyanna. He said “he left my sister for another woman” not using the word kidnapped. Maester Aemon saying “a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing” and the camera immediately panning to Jon. in S5 Littlefinger smirks at Sansa’s acct of the Rhaegar/Lyanna situation. As someone who wasn’t a book reader, I came up with the theory during S1 and only upon Googling, came across the R+l=J theory in the books finding out that people were decades ahead of me with that theory lol.
There’s a compilation video circulating that has some of the scenes Whatwhatnot is talking about, plus more. Very helpful to untangle some of this!
You cannot separate this story line from the books. This is a major plot point, if not one of the biggest plot points of the Game of Thrones.
And for what it is worth, we don’t know if Jon is the prince that was promised–or even if there is a prince that was promised. It’s simply a prophecy that may not come true.
OK – so Cersei has nothing more to lose. She doesn’t seem to have enough allies to really go up against the North AND Daenarys, and the whole thing is leading to a final battle between Ice (the White Walkers) versus Fire (a coalition of the South led by Jon-Daenarys-Tyrion etc.). Knowledge will enlighten people (Sam, Bran) But there will need to be betrayal (Sansa? Littlefinger? The Red Woman? Someone more unexpected?) …so…what if Cersei willingly goes beyond the wall, towards death since Life can’t be that attractive anymore and I think Jaime might eventually betray her…and becomes the Ice Queen against the South?
Or not?
Rest easy, Margaery. You deserved so much better. At least she was by her brother’s side. Now that Ramsay is gone, I’ll just spend the following ten months focusing my hatred on Cersei. The Girl was ON A ROLL. I also lol’ed at Dany being all like “eh, I just wanted to get it over with” about Daario, and her relationship with Tyrion is just so beautifully portrayed, both PD and EC were fantastic in that scene. Also, I know he’s long gone now, but I sort of need Iwan Rheon to get an Emmy nomination this year. Same would go for Lady Lianna (whose name I don’t know) if she’d had more screentime. Oh well, maybe next year.
I thought Marg had a bigger master plan to being down Cersei but at the end she just wanted to save her brother. She wanted him to be free. At least she saved her grandma. As you said, I’m glad she died next to her brother. I think their bond was deeper and bigger than Cersei and Jaime. She really loved him and wanted was best for him. Cersei always wanted status and power.
Marg will be missed.
On the same topic, I think Tommen’s death was the most powerful scene from the finale.
Cersei deserved a last-second glimpse ( too late to stop him) of her son plunging out the window to his own king’s landing.
I agree about Tommen’s scene. Gave me chills.
I’m interested in who has the greater claim to the Iron Throne – Dany or Jon. People go round and round with this topic, and always try to site English history, since Martin has stated the series is inspired by the War of the Roses.
Some say everything hinges on whether Lyanna married Rhaegar. Targaryens sometimes practiced polygamy, so it wasn’t impossible. But Rhaegar died before the mad king, so it seems to me that Viserys became the heir (and I think the mad king named Viserys heir in the books). So when Viserys died without issue, Dany became the heir.
But people who claim to know English history claim lines often followed in such a way that Jon would be the true king. So confusing. And this is fantasy after all, so who knows?
Lyanna Mormont set up Jon’s claim to the Targaryen throne by claiming him KITN, in SPITE of him being illegitimate. So even IF Rhaegar & Lyanna didn’t get married, Rhaegar was still technically the Targaryen heir, so Jon is STILL the direct line male descendant of the Targaryens. I guess it all depends on what the Dragons have to say about the situation, whether Jon cares about Kings Landing or is just happy being KITN, how things shake down in the battles against the White Walkers, and who lives and dies.
I think Dany would more or less get the upper hand, based on the fact she’s crossing the sea now to sit on that throne, while Jon is worried about the world not being consumed by WW.
Targaryen siblings intermarried and often shared the throne in threes. The dragon has three heads.
Fascinating. So the three could be Dany, Jon, and Tyrion (if fan speculation about his true parentage is correct).
Yes, quite possibly. In the books, there is another possible Targaryen floating around and leading his own invasion but they have left him out of the show, although they’ve given some of the plot points surrounding him and his followers to other characters (Jorah’s greyscale contracted while rescuing Tyrion was actually a different character who contracted greyscale while rescuing Tyrion) And Varys supports both of Danys and the other possible Targaryen because the dragon has three heads.
So who will get to ride dragons with Dany? I thought it would be Dany, Jon, and Tyrion. But now I’m wondering about Lyanna Mormont, who is a wonder. Cersei is evil incarnate. She had no reaction at all to Tommen’s death…way to go Wonder Mom! Loved the scene of the fleet with the dragons overhead. I was applauding, and my husband said bouncing, through that scene!
Cersei’s saving grace was always her love for her children, so I was stunned she didn’t seem more distraught about Tommen. I wondered if she wanted power more than ever after her public humiliation, and if some of her maternal ardor for Tommen cooled due to his treatment of her (allowing her imprisonment, and overruling trial by combat). At any rate, to even think of grabbing power instead of mourning her last child completely shocked and chilled me. Yes, Cersei is now just evil, evil, evil. She feels completely betrayed by life, and wants revenge..
Agree… she has nothing left to lose… she is living for revenge. The one sympathetic aspect to Cersei has always been her love for and desire to protect her children. Now that’s gone.
BEST. FINALE. EVER. Whoo hoo, a Girl is back in Westeros!! Now the question is will she hook up with her familial remnants first, or find Nymeria and rampage through the world wreaking untold havoc and destruction until her list has been finished off? Are the Unsullied going to stand at attention the WHOLE frigging voyage, or can they relax a little? Why aren’t Yara and Khaleesi on the same ship?! (*pouts). Varys sure does get around~totally awesome that he got both the Tyrells and Martells on board in one well timed fell swoop. I agree that Jaime will end up killing Cersei~things tend to come full circle in this series, and now he has Brienne as his back-up booty. Lyanna Mormont is EVERYTHING, good grief the young lady playing her is an INCREDIBLE actor. Sansa and Littlefinger…trouble on the horizon, you just KNOW she has her delicate flower butt chapped that Jon got declared King In the North. I bet she ends up marrying Robin Arryn, since Littlefinger has him all under control and such. That way she controls the Vale AND still has a very valid claim to Winterfell. Tyrion and Khaleesi…I name you Hand of the Queen (*sniffle) Darn you HBO and having to wait another year!!!
I am beyond excited about Mad Queen Cersei. Definitely, the MVP of the episode, imo. That gown was fantastic as well.
As for Sansa, maybe she realized that sitting on a throne in Westeros is such a terrible job. Every claimant to the Iron Throne, except Dany, has died. I do think that she will eventually become Queen of the North when Jon dies fighting the white walkers.
I wonder how long we are going to get to enjoy Insane Cersei next season.
She is a great villain. A Disney level Queen villain. Her dressing in that kickas* black outfit, all she needed was an apple and a mirror.
That outfit was so great and reminded me of how Tywin dressed; a solid black fabric with a woven pattern and one highlighted item. For Tywin the highlighted item was his pin denoting him Hand of the King. For Cersei it was those militaristic epaulettes. I felt those epaulettes were to send the message that she can lead troops, or at least come up with strategies. I can’t imagine how much Cersei will hate Dany, who is young, beautiful, powerful, and has dragons! Take that, Cersei!!!
Check out Leslie Jones’s Twitter descriptions of Cersei’s gown.
Anyone have any thoughts on why a girl (Arya) was eyeing Jaime? Like, I know her main objective was to murder that old coot but was she hoping for a 2 birds scenario? I’m js I wouldn’t put it past her to have hoped for that one in a million chance that Jaime would’ve taken her to bed so that she could kill him too. Lady Mormont was everything! Btw, I disagree with Jon or Dany ruling without Tyrion… Danaerys is a conqueror. Jon’s an effective leader and warrior. Tyrion knows how to rule. Either of them could rule a country with Tyrion by their side. I’m actually loving Kit Harington’s acting this season. Sulking teen and hopeless know-nothing did nothing for him but action sequences and fight scenes are where he thrives…just mesmerizing, imo.
Angelica:
I’m actually loving Kit Harington’s acting this season. Sulking teen and hopeless know-nothing did nothing for him but action sequences and fight scenes are where he thrives…just mesmerizing, imo.
-And his chemistry with Sophie is great! I loved their scenes together.
I love the way he shows awe and admiration for Lady Mormount.
Oh I assumed Arya killed the maid after the maid flirted with Jaime, and used her face. She’d do anything, even kill innocents, I think, to get her list dead.
Holy hell, I keep forgetting they have to be real faces!
I think your right. I wonder if they originally shot that scene, then edited it out for some reason.
Lady Mormont! LADY MORMONT!
My other favorite part was the opening sequence at Kings Landing-that score! That score was everything.
Season 7 & 8 are pretty much just one season but split. I see Season 7 being all about Dany’s arrival and the battle between all of the houses (again) but this time against the Lannisters. And I see season 8 as dealing with the White Walkers.
I have a question: How was Arya able to become someone else now that she is no longer a pupil of the God of Many Faces? How did she acquire that face of the girl? Can she just will her self to change physically or does she need the faces in the towers? That confused me. I thought she left that skill/privelege when she left that temple.
I wondered that, too. I guess once you make it to that level you can still do it, even if you “renounce” the position. She’s a renegade faceless man.
Do you think if Bran crosses the wall then the White Walkers will be able to pass, too? Since the magic protecting the cave was broken by the Night’s King touch. But somehow he has to tell everyone about R+L=J.
I’m also waiting to hear answers to this. I was wondering!
I wondered this too..
As someone else commented above, she would have had to kill the maid at some point. They need to be real faces. I assume the face-swapping is a skill that the faceless wo/men learn, and once you learn it you know it forever.
I feel like killing the waif was her true test to become no one, and Jaqen knew she would pass. His little smirk as she was walking away felt like he was proud of her. I always liked him and felt like they had a connection, hopefully they aren’t finished with that story!
A Man makes a Woman tingle.
She watched Jaqen do it in Bravos, so she knew how. Either she took a face with her, or she killed the girl so she could get to Walder.
Blood and gore all over the floor…
Does anyone know where GHOST is?
I’ve been wondering that too.
Chatter is that the direwolves rarely appear due to budget concerns 🙁
Such a fantastic episode. Best show on TV of all time.
Best season so far! And thank the lords, only the best and most interesting characters are left! (ok almost, Sam’s wife and adopted kid are totally useless and I don’t see their point at all, I’d rather have more Brienne or Gendry than them)