In 2015, there were a handful of high-profile stories in the British papers about Prince Charles’ discomfort at seeing his oldest son’s closeness with the Middleton family. While it comes as no shock to royal-watchers, the way Prince William openly rejects his father and works against his father’s interests is often as obvious as it is childish. William has always played with fire when it comes to his father: Charles bankrolls the Cambridges’ lavish and work-shy lifestyle through the Duchy of Cornwall, and I’ve always believed that Charles should force these issues by cutting off the money. Previously, we’ve heard that Charles was and is deeply worried about William’s dependence on Kate’s family, often at the expense of spending any time with the royal family. We’ve also heard that Charles is deeply hurt that William, Kate and the Middleton seem to keep George and Charlotte from their Grandpa Charles. The Daily Mail has a new story along the same lines: Charles rarely sees his grandkids and he’s trying to figure out a way to separate William from his dependence on Carole Middleton in particular. You can read the full piece here. Some highlights.
The Middletons are no longer invited to royal events. Carole and Michael Middleton were included in many activities when Will and Kate first married. But now the Middletons are not invited to royal events, Ascot or the Royal Windsor Horse Show. Charles didn’t invite them to Birkhall in Scotland either. A source says it’s almost as if some sort of anti-Middleton rule is being “enforced.”
Why Charles is editing out the Middletons: A royal courtier says: “Charles feels very much that the Middletons get more than their fair share of time with George and Charlotte. In comparison, he sees them very little and he bears a bit of a grudge about that.” The DM notes: “It can hardly help that courtiers feel Carole exudes a rather grandiose presence around Kensington Palace and is possessive of William, Kate and the children.”
Persona non grata at Birkhall: Charles used to extend invites to the Middletons to stay at Birkhall, “But at the moment, there’s no talk of them going. He wants to see his son and daughter-in-law and spend time with his grandchildren alone. He has always wanted to mentor George, who is, after all, the heir to the throne, and sees it very much as his role. He will always insist the grandchildren come to Scotland so that they can learn to shoot, hunt and fish. That’s very important to Charles. He wishes the family would do more traditional things like holiday in Scotland.”
Charles hates that Carole orchestrates everything. Charles did go to George’s birthday party but a source says: “Charles didn’t want to miss his grandson’s birthday but the fact that the whole thing was essentially a Middleton event with Carole orchestrating the whole thing is exactly what upsets him…Charles feels rather left out. He gets very little time with his grandchildren and I know he gets upset about it because he has said so. He certainly feels William spends more time with the Middletons than he does with his own family. While Charles would never dream of saying anything to upset William, he might be making a point by keeping the Middletons at arm’s length.”
Carole is always around the Cambridges: Carole is described as a “regular visitor” at Anmer Hall, and Will and Kate made Carole a “granny annex” at Kensington Palace. Carole also stays over to look after George and Charlotte when Will and Kate are traveling.
William is not interested in holidaying with his father either: “A friend of Charles says while William and Kate enjoy holidays with the Middletons, it has been ‘years’ since William has been away with his father.” The source says: “Charles would love to do something like a family skiing holiday, but William’s not interested. He wants to do his own thing these days and often his father doesn’t know where he is or what he’s doing. When William and the family nipped off to Courcheval for a few days’ skiing at the start of the year, Charles had no idea they were away. He was rather hurt. Neither of them pick up the phone to each other and weeks can pass without them having a proper catch-up.”
Much like the 2015 stories, I feel strongly that this is Charles’ way of communicating with William through the press. I would say that’s sort of tragic, except that A) William does it too, talking to his family through the press, and B) William married into a family that manipulates him via the press as well. It’s all pretty much Dysfunction Junction. This is Charles telling his son publicly that William needs to stop giving Carole so much access. This is Charles trying to publicly shame Will and Kate into letting him spend time with his grandkids. And this is Charles telling Carole to settle down. Do you think it will work? Um…
Photos courtesy of WENN, Mario Testino/Kensington Palace, Fame/Flynet.
I sense that planting stories in the press belittling William’s mother in law is not going to get Charles more time with his grandchildren.
I agree but Carole has long had this rep in the press as the controlling MIL from hell. We can see where Kate gets it from as she is just as controlling and possessive over William.
Plus the Middletons have long had a rep for being v grandiose and behaving like royalty. Sadly those stories were whitewashed after the engagement.
+1 Charles is reaping what he sowed. He raised william.
One of P Charles’ ex staffers described in a bio of William how she was dispatched to Eton to discipline William and Harry for shooting a beloved pea hen. She also told of how when Will refused to do a photo call, Charles sat there silent like an asshole while she had to beg and plead and threaten to get Will to do it. Charles, it would appear, refuses to engage in any unpleasantness where Will is concerned. I know there is this consensus that Charles is a good father, but I disagree. A good parent doesn’t outsource difficult parenting moments to staffers out of cowardice. No wonder Will thinks he can do whatever he wants. He can! Will thinks his feelings run the world. They do! If Charles tried to limit Wills’ spending, he’d back down again the moment Will raised his voice to protest. Hence, the passive aggressive newspaper complaints.
@Red Snapper, the monarchy is doomed after The Queen unless Harry gets the crown. I wonder if The Queen wants Harry as king?
I wonder if Will is getting some sort of payback for the way Charles treated his mother. Diana did tell Will things, Will also saw first hand how upset she was.
@Kitty, one thing that was true in the load of mostly tosh that was that article was the fact that the Middletons weren’t invited to Royal Ascot this year. That’s the Queen’s show, and that’s evidence that she has cooled on the Middletons.
@Tiny, I really do think The Queen isn’t really fond of Kate.
@Kitty, I agree. The one thing the Queen has done consistently for almost all of her years on this earth is work. Now, it’s not working at the coal face, but it is work. I don’t think she understands how Kate can be the way she is.
William is the heir. He wasnt going to be punished harshly, but likely more pleaded with. Both Charles and Diana as well as most of the staff by many accounts treated William this way and had the appropriate help “dispatched” for punishing the boys as needed.
William is a product of himself. He was treated as others before him, but his free will has created who he is today. No majority blame can be placed on anyone else, but William.
Don’t forget, too, that Charles has a *deep* jealous streak for anyone getting more attention than him (remember his petulance when the crowds wanted Diana to walk on their side of the street and voiced disappointment when they got him?). I think it’s the same thing here: he’s jealous that the Middletons are the ones favored. (He doesn’t seem to realize kids have enough love for everyone who love them). Not that he would be one to get down and actually play with the kids the way kids play; he wants the “photo op” play moment, while still dressed in his suit and tie, and then, as he did with his kids, he’ll leave the rest of the work to the help.
In my opinion, he’s still the jealous, petty man he always was. In pretty much all the articles it says “he wishes they would bring the kids by (and he’s always working, true), but he won’t pick up the phone and ask them to come (pride). So, stalemate.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it is passive-aggressive on William’s part for how Charles treated his mother.
Red Snapper nailed it, imo. Charles was a good father, not a great father so why should he be a great grandfather instead of just a good one? He seems to want things to flow comfortably around him while he remains fixed and solid and…right royal. This is why Cam was a good fit for him and not Di. Charles doesn’t like his boat rocked.
Imqr
A lot of that jealousy was from the Diana press juggernaut. Based reality, but greatly exaggerated.
Charles was the 1 who kept his boys sheltered after Diana. All their vacations and time spent as a family was not open to those friendly photo ops. It’s also been noted Charles like Harry prefer to be affectionate away from press. The attention is not used for pr. It’s personal. Because you don’t see it like with Wills, Kate, and the Midds shouldn’t lead you to that conclusion. Also, many of those pictures are not run. Sometimes they pop up on a twitter account. Mostly not.
It’s healthy to question the press and where your news comes from. There is often a narrative to further an agenda.
You may be right, but cutting off the money spigot sure will. More than anything, I believe, Wills likes is lazy and luxurious lifestyle. Charles can end all of that quite easily.
Charles has perfected passive aggressiveness – exhausting, small minded man.
If I were Charles I would stop giving them money
Me too!!
Most effective, I´m sure
I agree Lora. Or at least put stipulations on getting any cash like, um, doing some work, limiting the amount of vacations, exposing the grandchildren to their paternal relatives and yes, making the children available to Charles occasionally. The Doolittles are shameless in flaunting their dolittle lifestyle and it may be time for Charles to finally take a stand.
Cutting off the money, or even threatening to do so, would only further estrange William, which is the last thing Charles wants.
This, and I also don’t believe he can just snap his fingers and it’s done. I’m sure the Queen has to weigh in etc.
@Dani, not with the Duchy of Cornwall money. Charles has control over that, not the Queen. She controls the Sovereign Grant and the Duchy of Lancaster money.
How much more estranged could they be?
nota, do you think William would give up being heir if the money and lifestyle was guaranteed to him to continue? Or would George be a reason he wouldn’t? I know Carole would never agree!!!
I also think that after the Queen, support for the monarchy will plummet, even though I think Charles would be a good steward. I think it will be pretty much gone by the time of William. It is the ultimate anachronism in an age of financial struggle for most on this earth.
Temporarily, sure. I’m pretty sure it would work eventually.
Me, too. Cut off the money. Charles should tell Wills that since he doesn’t seem to want to spend time with him, he must not want Charles’ money. That will straighten the WorkShy and ElaborateLiving couple right out.
I do believe this particularly as the signs r so obvious as I have a couple of siblings who behave in the same way, which greatly upsets me as my mother is ill and would love to c her grandchildren.
Carole has always always controlled every aspect of the relationship and considering her ambitions for a title and to be the power behind the throne there is no way in hell she will relax her iron grip of the heirs. But fate has a way of intervening and I think something big will happen with Willy boy and he will b forced to give up his claim. Plus I think she Chuck takes the throne things will not be easy for them as he will b in a position to do something and chuck is ruthless. Thou I don’t like the thought of that let getting their grubby hands on the Duchy of CornwLl as u just know Willy will turn it into a ‘family’ aka a Middleton family business. Mark my words they all have their eye on that.
Like I have been saying, William does not want to be King.
William wants the unearned money, power, status, and deference. He doesn’t want the work and responsibility.
@notasugarhere, well that is obvious but I think Harry will be King in the future. Diana even said Harry would make a better king than William.
William would not willingly give it all up and walk away, no matter how much he whines and complains. They’d have to force him out through legal means. He is too jealous of his brother to let Harry have the status of King. I can see him pulling something where he continues to do nothing, Harry does the majority of the work, but W&K’s son still inherits.
The fact that Harry is better suited to the job showcases why hereditary monarchies are destined to fail eventually. In the past there were wars over the throne when the heir was incompetent. The modern Duke of Windsor abdication happened because it was wartime and the government could control the spin.
William leaving the line now in this 24/7 news cycle? They cannot move to the Bahamas and never be bothered by the press again. They would have to leave the UK and move to a country with strict privacy laws that ban paps. I cannot see them doing that. And I cannot see him leaving without a massive (several hundred million) payout plus taxpayer-funded security for life.
This hereditary monarchy has taken a darned long time to fail! On the go for well over a thousand years. Remember too the present lot come from the Scots side as much as anybody. It was through the Stuarts the Hanover lot got there.
That apart as others say William wants all the money and luxurious lifestyle but none of the work. He does not seem to get it that all adults should do some kind of work.
Charles was meant to have been a good father but either preferred to do it away from the cameras or was ignored by them in favour of Diana. He did bathe the boys when they were babies and was quite a hands-on father. It was also said that as they grew older the boys preferred the holidays he could give them on huge estates rather than what Diana could offer. William and Harry also spent a lot of time away with Diana visiting her lovers but that aspect seems to have passed William by nowadays.
As for Harry being king he really cannot be unless William and heirs all die.
In more than a thousand years only one monarch has ever abdicated. No matter how much William disliked the spotlight I am sure he wouldnt. Now if he chose to withdraw, George and Charlotte would still be there. I dont think Harry is particularly suitable as a direct heir anyway because he is a bit immature and a loose canon. Diana was the same maybe ok as queen consort but without the discipline or dedication to be monarch.
William has the most unbelievable chip on his shoulder made worse since his association with the Middletons.
I get the feeling that Carole is protecting her ‘investment’: Kate and her marriage to William. Easy street? Man, these people may end the monarchy yet with their entitled ways.
Or maybe William doesn’t like Camilla and doesn’t want his children around her. I don’t think the boys really like her it seems like they put up with her to please their father. William has spoken about the void in his life since his mother died and having children and not having her around to be Grandma which she would of loved this could be his revenge. Charles could cut off the money but William does actually have some of his own and he has paid for most things already it would look really bad. Charles does A lot of duties and really William and Kate should make an effort her parents see the kids when ever they want Charles can’t do that. Living away from London doesn’t help things either.
The Cambridge family could definitely spend time around Charles without Camilla…I think Camilla still owns her own country place, Ray Mill House, where she spends time with her own own grandkids. I don’t think she’s always at Highgrove and she and Charles give each other a lot of space. But I agree this could be passive aggressive revenge of William against Charles as that seems to be William’s petulant style.
Also, that William wants to be a Middleton, not a Windsor. If he spends more time with Charles he might get an awkward talking-to about, you know, taking over some royal duties as Charles is nearing 70. I’m sure William would rather be coddled and catered to by the Middletons where the most stressful conversation is about cheese on toast and where’s the next vacation.
We have heard for years that the reason he and his mistress wife spend so much time apart is that Charlie hates having kids around. NOW, he has a craving for papi time? Really people? Whats keeping him from driving over every week for a play date, other than his stupidity over protocol? Also, Harry doesnt spend much time with his father either choosing instead to live near William. The fact is, the boys know how toxic the Windsors are, as human beings and as an establishment. They saw what they did to their mother. And I can bet you that Charles has never bothered to address his role in their mothers torment directly with them. So they do the right thing when you realise your father Is unrepentant narcissist; you restrict contact while taking care not to publicly humiliate him. In their world that means showing up for State events. In the meantime you create a surrogate family unit that gives you some semblance of human family. But kudos to Charles PR team for their successful twenty year campaign to humanise him by villainising his dead wife and their sons family because in the end, the only thing that matters to that seventy year old is public approval.
Naya: Harry lives in London. William in Norfolk. Harry makes it a point to see both Charles and HM frequently and not simply because there are public family functions they should all attend.
What you said Naya. Totally agree.
I am no fan of William’s but in this case I would totally have done what he is doing. There are many different accounts of Charles’ jealousy and ‘unrepentant narcissism’ as you put it. It is not made up. Any therapist would tell you that at some point you have to cut yourself off from such people to the extent possible. For your own mental health.
Charles is a deeply damaged individual. William is too, but I do think that he has found love and intimacy with Kate and her family and is at least trying to course-correct with his own children. No matter what their faults there is no question that the Middletons are unconditionally supportive of each other. This must be a revelation for William. A father actually unconditionally loving his son – he has not even seen this before !! No wonder he runs off to the Middletons any chance he gets.
No fan of William’s work ethic or the Middleton’s grandiose nonsense, and I do acknowledge Charles’ contribution through the Prince’s trust etc., but there is no denying the nightmare that he raised William in.
And yet Harry and Charles manage to have a supportive and loving relationship. Harry who garners global attention for his charity work and Invictus Games. Charles in the front row, beaming with pride as Harry gives a speech.
How do you know that Harry and Charles have a loving and supportive relationship? When Harry came back from Afganisthan Charles did not even meet him at the airport. One time William went. The other time he came back to KP by himself. Doesn’t sound like a loving and supportive relationship to me. Sounds like a professional one. Charles shows up when Harry does his job well. Period.
The first time Harry went to Afghanistan, both Charles and William picked him up.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=charles+harry+william+airport+afghanistan&oq=charles+harry+william+airport+afghanistan&aqs=chrome..69i57.12592j0j4&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=hqAF_eWMuFTfhM%3A
The second time, no one picked him up. At the time the excuse was that Harry wanted a private meeting with the family rather than the public one.
Also the second time Harry was out there, Charles added him to his christmas radio message. Something about wanting to hear more from him while he was away at war.
Harry talks alot in detail about Charles. Not just as a POW he respects, but in terms of likes and dislikes. Off the cuff comments that indicate a closeness eg at quite a few engagements, Harry often says he can’t wait to tell Charles about X in the context of the engagement.
And yes, the public support is everything. Charles has dutifully attended most of Harry’s public endevours and looks both proud and like he is enjoying himself whilst there.
Charles’s Christmas card from 2014 was of himself at the Invictus games in London.
LAK, I’ve read that Charles and Harry even share an interest in painting together.
This is Charles ringing the last bell before he turns solidly to Harry for the future of the monarchy.
Liberty: yes. That is also true. And Charles has sent Harry in his place to over see his Romanian estates.
At the end of the day, we can list many things that Harry and Charles have done together or separately away from Royal family duty things that indicate a closeness whereas we would all struggle to compose a similar list for Charles and William.
William has never paid for anything out of his own pocket. His holidays are paid for by others, including the Middletons. His homes are either HM or taxpayer gifted. Their maintenance, and i’m including Kate + kids in the maintenance, come from Charles. His office is paid by taxpayers via Charles.
Honestly, if that rumour that he bought Middleton Towers were true, it would be the first time he had dipped into his own pocket because William is infamous for being tight-fisted.
There is that infamous time he begged for a free villa on Mustique on the grounds that he was broke and couldn’t be expected to pay for it, but felt entitled to it regardless. That particular example demonstrates William’s inability to pay his own way even though he has millions.
Wow he is really spoiled compared to Harry.
Re: Middeton Towers, there is also a rumour that Chuck contributed at Williams instance as the Mids got heavily in debt over the wedding. I suspect Uncle Gary coughed up the money yet again. They certainly had their hands in the ta payers coffers as they spent £1million + on ‘security upgrades’ to that property. I would like to know what these upgrades were. The whole lot of them are I it for what they can fleece off others – that is the Middleton MO.
There is a significant mortgage on the new house, found by royal sleuthers. Held by a foreign bank. William may have contributed some, but it is still mostly owned by the bank.
@Betti, how rich are the Middletons?
Nota: My point was that William’s contribution, whether whole or in part would be very surprising since he never dips into his own pocket.
@Kitty. No one really knows but they are not as wealthy as they would like us all to believe. Party Piece (the family business) is not as successful as they would have us believe. Carole’s brother Gary is the wealthy one, he made millions from property and has long been rumoured to have funded the Middleton’s business, James’s various failed businesses and Kate’s 10 year long land the prince campaign. This is why they have the rep of being freebie/discount hustlers, they used the royal connection to live like the upper classes or the very least front like they did.
Yes, LAK, I agree. It would be shocking if he paid for any of it. I just put that in because so many are convinced that the number bandied about for the Middletons net worth is gospel.
If we’re going by what William has said he does like Camilla just fine. Both boys have spoken to this in a light hearted fashion and supported their words with actions of warmth towards her on several public and private occasions. So, that’s not a good excuse.
And George has appeared beyond comfortable with both Charles and Camilla. That kid is adored by them.
How would their relationship change if Charles becomes King? Would the Middletons and William defer to his wishes out of respect for the Monarchy or continue to do as they please out of disrespect for the man?
They would continue to do as they please with is sod all. In fact her shopping habit would spiral out of control, they’d vacation any other week and he’d be buying loads of cars and bikes. All funded directly by the duchy of CornwLl which they would treat as their personal piggy bank. Willy would do an Edawrd VIII and squirrel money from the duchy into his own personal bank accounts.
I know that William gets criticism for being “Prince Dolittle” but on one level I do feel sorry for him. Forgetting that he is a member of the Royal Family for a minute, we have a young man who is the product of two people that had a very rocky marriage. His father was having a long term affair( now married to former mistress) throughout the marriage and then his mother dies in a car crash when he was a teenager. Throw in the other messiness associated with the Windsors and is it any wonder that William has turned to the close knit Middleton family? William has a lot of resentment that he is taking out on his father. If this was any other man,people would be saying he ( and also Charles) should go into therapy to work on fixing his relationship with his father.
Yeah, I suspect William doesn’t have a good relationship with his stuffy father, and the Middle tons, including carol, are very warm and alot of fun.
@Danielle, who wrote: “Yeah, I suspect William doesn’t have a good relationship with his stuffy father, and the Middle tons, including carol, are very warm and a lot of fun.”
How, then, do we explain the close relationship between Charles and Harry? William and Harry were both raised by the same parents.
Every parent child relationship is unique. William and Harry had very different relationships with their mother and have very different relationships with their father. As the heir, I suspect William’s experience with the entire BRF is quite different from Harry’s.
What warm relationship between Harry and Charles? I would wager they speak as often as Charles and William do. They don’t share a normal family relationship, the Windsors.
Harry doesn’t have kids, and that’s a huge difference. Diana treated William and Harry like people first, royals last. She believed in a real childhood. William knows how stuffy his father is, how mean and uncaring he’s been in the past. Is it really any surprise that he doesn’t subject his children to that? I’ve never liked Camilla. I still remember when Diana referred to her as the pitbull. A fitting description, IMO. Charles has the least charm or warmth of any of the royals.
NewWester, Carole (with an “e”), is that you?
One has no bearing on the other. Having a messy personal life isn’t an automatic pass to being lazy, workshy etc.
Yup – plenty of people have a messy home life growing up – and still manage to be generally functioning adults who work hard. I don’t give him a pass for this as his own brother – who had the same upbringing – isn’t nearly as insufferable.
William has no problem bleeding the family firm dry while kicking it in the face and stabbing it in the back. Grow up, walk away from the unearned money and status, and take your line with you.
No one is making excuses for William’s laziness and his entitlement. I think that some people, including me, can see why he is attracted to the Middletons and runs away from his own family of origin. He sees the Windsors as the firm he works in and maintains a professional attitude with them, but his real family, his place of solace is with the Middletons. Honestly I might have done the same had I been in his shoes. Minus the laziness.
He doesn’t work for the family firm. He just takes the profits while publicly attacking-and-failing them at every turn.
If he wants to be a Middleton, he is welcome to walk away from the obligations, status, and money of being a Windsor.
Emma, don’t forget, Diana made William her “confident”; even at his young age his mother shared things that no boy should have to hear/know. This has been documented in many books about Diana. He has a very different slant on his parents’ relationship than Harry, three years younger, was privy to.
This. If Diana had been half as good a mother as her fans say she was she never would have made will her “confidant”. What a horrid thing to do to a child! She was a selfish, shallow woman who was also damaged by a crap family life and upbringing.
A good mother would have gritted her teeth and said nothing negative about the child’s father and let the child come to his own conclusions (from father’s behavior) as he grew up. But Diana wanted to “win” and in trying to win she damaged her own child.
She knew what the score was when she married Charles and she campaigned to marry him every bit as much as Kate did with Will. She also knew how the Royals (and upper class Brits which her family was) lived….with a mistress and the stiff upper lip.
And Harry has a very different personality than Will plus he wasn’t made privy to all the crap that Diana shared with Will.
It is “documented” because some people believe every word Diana said, instead of recognizing that she lied whenever she felt like it. William was away at boarding school the majority of the War of the Waleses. He was not there every night shoving tissues under the door.
Being away at boarding school hardly precludes William from dealing with the harrowing experience his mother and father put him through. Charles and Diana deserve all the blame for that. Even if William was partially shielded there would be plenty of schoolmates, staff and tabloid rags to keep it in his face. But even were that not the case Charles and Diana had famous blow-ups in front of William so I hardly see the point of arguing mitigation. Diana was a drama queen too self-absorbed to leave her son out of her drama and Charles was an arrogant lout too entitled to put his family before his own desires. We can speculate as to how much William’s personality and character can be attributed to that but the truth is no child should have had to endure that.
Shoving tissues under the door even once was one time too many. William was a child who was not responsible to for his mother’s emotional well being.
I will be glad to ” vacation in Scotland” on behalf of William.
I second that.
I can’t say that I’d be terribly interested in hunting ever or fishing for hours, but abstractly, Royal Scottish vacation would be amazing.
Me too.
I could get into hiking at Balmoral, and horseback riding!! I’d leave the hunting and fishing to the others. If it was raining, I’d build a huge fire in the fireplace and nestle in with a good book and my honey. Or travel around Scotland on a road trip. Gorgeous country!
Honestly, it’s very normal for a man to marry a woman and spend more time with her family…especially at holidays. I hear this complaint a lot from friends with sons who marry.
This.
But it’s Summer and the DM will be nothing without their round-the-clock Charles and Diana; or Charles vs. Diana/William/Anne/Queen stories.
Protagonists dead or alive? Doesn’t matter.
Actually, that is not necessarily true. We make an effort to spend equal time, and go on trips with my in-laws, etc. It really depends on the relationship that is built with both families. I think it is tough to evaluate what goes on with the Windsors, beyond what is obvious – some work (inasmuch as anything royalty does is “work”) and some just like the perks. Other than that… who knows what actually goes on beyond closed doors. It may be Charles’ fault or Will’s or both. Blaming the Middletons is idiotic. I don’t like them – but they are his in-laws. Carole can’t dictate to Will, if he prefers to spend more time with them, and not his dad, that’s on him.
Of course it’s not always true, but it’s the norm…more often than not.
I think in this case the Middletons have a lot to answer for. William and Chuck were very close when he was a young man at Uni, it was his father and NOT Kate who persuaded him to stay on at Uni and switch courses. And it was his father who encouraged him to join the RAF. The longer his relationship with Chutney went on the more he seemed to defer to the Middletons and the gulf between him and his father & brother widened. The fact that he didn’t even tell his OWN FAMILY that he got engaged until the day it went public says everything you need to know about how he feels/treats about them – her family knew in advance (she let that cat out of the bag at the engagement interview).
There is clearly a lot of unresolved issues between father and son but they have been enabled by the Middletons. Of course he wants to spend time with his son and his family but that doesn’t mean that her family have to always be included. The fact that Carole has a granny flat says everything you need to know about how involved she in their lives. She has a husband and a business to run but i guess she needs to cement her position as advisor to 2 future Kings, someone they can’t do without.
Just a question. If Carole has a granny annex at Anmer Hall, what does Michael do? I gather he isn’t as welcome or wanted as she is. That must put a strain on their marriage.
What Michael does is take care of the lawn at Anmer, so his annex is a bunk in the garden shed.
I don’t perceive that Michael isn’t as welcome or wanted as Carole. Michael’s just not a central character in the way media likes to talk about the Midds. Michael got the role of beta male which is probably art imitating life.
A bunk in the shed! I don’t know why, but this made me think of Karl from Sling Blade. LOL!
in your adult life you have to maintain boundaries with even your closest relatives and friends to stay sane and happy.
So much this. Even family has to earn the right to your mental and emotional space.
I think the next couple years with be interesting, especially if Pippa pops out a couple. We’ll finally see if Carole is really just a ‘normal Granny’ or (and I suspect) more interested in William and being Royal through proximity. She needs to spend the same time with her other kids as she does with Kate to convince me she’s genuine and not in it for the perks.
I’m just as curious.
I’m curious, too. Pippa’s wedding will be the first “clue”.
I read about brother James being a father – I’m pretty sure it was on DM, after prince George was born. The piece also criticized the grandmother for not paying equal attention to that child and mentioned the child is hidden from the public. I don’t know if it’s true though.
I agree. That will be the true test. And Pippa’s family is not protected by the press so we’ll have plenty of opportunities to see granny playing at the park or coming and going from their London home.
I’m bored by the family dynamics of the BRF. We all know they are constipated and anachronistic and fail at emotions. To make up for this, they are enthusiastic informal swingers. What’s new?
On the other hand, as I understand this particular dynamic, the Middletons, perhaps Carole specifically, are seen to have misunderstood the difference between your bog standard trustafarian and your princeling.
A princeling is a trustafarian WITH OBLIGATIONS. So if Carole is perceived as moulding trustafarians WITHOUT OBLIGATIONS – and if we look at the entirety of Kate plus the (im)maturing work ethic of Bill, we can see they’re not big on obligations – then I can understand it if Chuck wants to limit her influence.
I snigger at the thought of Charles trying to wrap his head around Carole’s middle class family values. And on top of that she’s controlling, manipulative and an alpha female. Carole is probably like an alien species to Chuck’s eyes.
Yep. The Middletons do not understand the WITH OBLIGATIONS part of royaling. If William continues to acquiesce to them because it indulges his own need not to have obligations, he will be helped off the throne.
It’s happened enough times for him to be a complete idjit not to pay heed to history.
Of course the other worry is that if the Middletons are in charge of the grandkids, they will raise that generation NOT to have any obligations just as they raised their own kids and have influenced William.
Exactly.
Carole will be teaching Charlotte how to dress and act to hold the attention of a great catch. Or how to do her makeup to look like her paternal grandmother.
Could William actually be ‘helped off the throne” against his will?
I think that the missing the WITH OBLIGATIONS part of his job description is entirely on William. He is a man in his mid-thirties. Let’s not go after Carole for William’s own spoilt-bratiness.
Maia – I also think it’s entirely on William. I’m simply making a suggestion as to Chuck’s motivations, which could well be more about that than about the time he is allotted with his grandchildren.
If Chuck wishes to remove people he sees as Bill’s no obligations enablers, then perhaps the hard-pressed British taxpayer might get a smidgeon more return on their money. In which case, I’m all for it and tough cookies to Carole. Because OBLIGATIONS.
Not that I think any of them, Chuck included, provide sufficient bang for my buck.
Vava: If he continues this game, yes.
At the moment he isn’t in the direct line of people who need to work with him. It’s HM and soon Charles. Yet from his own words, William has given every indication of being an absent, puppet King-in-name only.
That will clash with all sorts and will lead to his being encouraged off the throne.
It worked with David though in his case Mrs Simpson was a PR godsend to those who wanted him off the throne.
Really. So many here and elsewhere talk about the wonderful middle-class family values of the Middletons. So how come none of their three adult children ever worked?? James’ company was failing last year, and he went on vacation with Momma Carole and Pippa.
Some middle class family values.
Thanks LAK!
+1
I’m always team Kate only when Carole is brought up. Coming from a matrilineal native community I find it strange that the mother’s access needs to be limited. I grew up with a grandmother who had all 5 of her daughters living within walking distance. Aunts were almost mothers. When my mother was alive i spoke to her everyday and saw her a least weekly, and many times she spent the night at my house. My children love their paternal grandparents but the relationship just isn’t the same, they adored and were adored by my mother. Yes Charles should see the children but I feel like his visits would be kind of formal and not just regular popping in to see grandad. And It’s not like George can hunt or really even fish at this point.
If she does the same when Pippa has kids fine, but if not, then it will be very obvious Carole just wants to be close to Royal power. Pippa better build a granny annex at her new home too.
But I remember when Will and Kate visited Australia – Carole wanted to be included in the trip, and HM had to put her foot down and say no. How many mothers accompany their adult daughters on business trips, even if they are very close (and for the BRF, royal visits are the equivalent of business trips)? Would Carole spend as much time with them if Bill wasn’t a royal prince? I strongly suspect the answer is no.
Not saying that carole should have been allowed to accompany Kate, but I’ve known women who have absolutely brought their mom along for trips (even business trips) when they had very young children.
Michelle Obama’s mother frequently joins her on overseas trips, even when the girls are not with them.
The Obamas aren’t royalty and don’t pretend to be.
Charles and the BRF aside, as the mother of a son, with whom, I’m very close to, I find that Charles’ alleged gripe is my worst nightmare. I’ve seen a lot of men, who get married, and is then absorbed into the wife’s family. They do all the holidays together, the vacations, they live closer to HER family, and his… His family is maybe every other holiday. My husband and I are very close with both of our families and when we do major events and holiday, both sides are included. it’s never one over th eother. I suspect that William has deep feelings about his father and has yet to address them. I suspect that if William wasn’t a part of the BRF that he would not be even speaking to Charles.
My two cents:
If a man wants to spend equal amounts of time with his family – he will.
We’re still in our 20s and don’t have kids of our own, but we split holidays up. For example, Christmas season: Christmas Eve supper- his parents. Christmas morning – his, then mine or vice versa. Christmas supper – at my grams (only surviving grandparent between the two of us). Boxing day supper – his parents. We live about half way between our respective family – only about 15 minutes driving for either one. My aunt moved about a 4-5 hour drive away when she got married. She still split most major holidays between her husbands family and ours. If you want to do it – you will.
Yes, IKNOWWHATBOYSLIKE, I also have seen several men become more and more distant with their families as their wife arranges everything favoring her family. A smart woman will LOVE her daughter in law NO MATTER WHAT ( if you get my drift), and make their get togethers fun for their daughter in law too. Also, if you have a close relationship with your son that obviously helps; keep communicating a lot without accusing or harping. I’m very pragmatic, because I have seen some unbelievable family messes amongst friends and other family…
It depends on the individuals involved. My in-laws went out of their way to make it clear that they didn’t like me, and while we make a real effort to make sure our kids see them, we’re not close. In contrast, my family went out of their way to welcome my husband with open arms.
But on the other hand, my little sister is incredibly tight with her in-laws, who are also BFFs with my parents. Moral of the story: go out of your way to make any future daughter in laws a part of your family.
I agree with what you say but Willy kept Kate away from his family during the GF years. Harry is on record at the time of the engagement saying he was looking forward to getting to know her -his brothers on/off gf for the past 10 years.
“Charles and the BRF aside”
Same. We get limited travel time; I’m not going out of my way to see people who don’t seem to like me very much. And, most importantly, whose son does not enjoy seeing his family.
William is a chip off the old block when it comes to petulism. However he needs to be forcibly reminded that whether he likes it or not he is a member of the royal family and should accept the responsibilities as well as the perks. The queen and DoE are in their 90s and Charles and Camilla are almost 70. I would love to know what hold William has over the Palace to get away with the things he does. They seem to pander to his every whim.
Charles leaking stories to the media about Carole will probably alienate William more. The only way their influence will wane will be if William gets fed up with them and Waity. But I think he’s too lazy to do do that.
I can understand William’s dependence on Kate, because he’s his wife, but I don’t get his dependence on Carole. If I were Kate, I’d be a little weirded out.
I’ve always thought his attraction to Kate is really Carole.
Not a romantic/sexual relationship, but coddling, spoiling, helicoptering relationship. Plus she’s efficient and capable and takes care of him in ways he has taken to complaining BOTH his parents did not.
I totally agree with your analysis.
Totally agree.
Absolutely agree.
Plus Kate keeps her mother around for a reason. She wants to be taken care of too!
William has huge unresolved mummy issues. Diana was a loving mother but she was very unstable and used her son as an emotional crutch. This is not healthy for any child. Since her death there has been no caring maternal figure in his life until Carole. HM is not renowned for her warmth as Charles has alluded to so its hard to imagine her being very involved with 2 motherless boys. Their other grandmother did not seem very hands on either.
Their other grandmother had Parkinson and eventually brian Cancer which killed her. Though she remained active in the years after Diana’s death, we shall never know how capable she truly was because in her obituary, her illness was described as long term.
Thanks LAK. Didn’t know that.
I don’t get why Charles doesn’t just say no to more Royal events to go do Sunday supper with his grandkids or take them out for the day or pick them up from preschool and go for ice cream or something… Does he not get that at their age you have to meet them where they are and not worry about hunting or shooting? You need to build a relationship with Legos and readings the same story 17 million times so that as they grow up you have a right to expose them to other interests. They may be royal kids but at this age, they are still just kids…
Because Charles has a job to do, a job that supports the entire family and his feckless son and DIL. He cannot work less because W&K are refusing to work more.
The way royal diaries are built, Charles will have sent requests to WK’s teams to add dates that he can see WK or the kids or both. Those requests will be set against everything else in his diary. In the same way people make child custody arrangements.
However, unlike child custody arrangements, WK are under no obligation to accept Charles’s requests OR they might counter with dates he can’t meet OR they mihht all agree on dates, but there is a ladt minute cancellation.
Unlike WK’s light schedule, and by the sounds of it Carile’s own light schedule, Charles can’t drop stuff nor can he turn his schedule around easily. Right now he is doing multiple jobs that no one else in the family can do or have refused to do eg
1. he has taken over management of Sandrigham and Balmoral in addition to his own Duchy. Sidenote: Ironic that William can’t help out with the management of these 2 estates yet enjoys the hunting/shooting they provide and never misses a chance to attend the season.
2. He has very quietly taken over some of HM’s duties including all her overseas travel and attendances at things like meetings of the Commonwealth.
3. He is still very involved with his charity, The Princes trust.
4. All his patronages
5. As Prince of Wales, he remains interested in all things Welsh and adds time to his schedule to visit when he can. William, a future POW has visited Wales only a handful of times. His time in Wales didn’t bring him closer to welsh interests and issues.
All of that isn’t easily dropped to accomodate a change in schedule or cancellation. Something WK do quite regularly.
I don’t know. I think it’s harder for some people. I actually… can’t remember a time when my grandfather did anything with just us kids. He had a military career, and a very cold mother, and he was never the kind of person for big displays of affection. That being said – dad would often organize fishing trips, or beach trips, or going to the movies, and grampy would happily come along and enjoy himself with all us us. He was away a lot when dad and his sisters were kids – he traveled the world during his service, and continued his career in the airforce past the end of WW2. He also worked in social services, and town council – so he had a lot going on. That meant that he didn’t have a lot of time with his own children, and I think it’s sometimes hard for someone who’s older and not used to being around kids day in and day out to really click with them.
It wasn’t like he didn’t want to go and do stuff with us – he did want to, and he did so. But again – he was someone who was forced to grow up way too young because of his family life – he was working when he was a child. And then went off to war.
I feel like it’s kind of similar with Charles. I don’t think it’s that he doesn’t want to be around the kids – I think it’s partially a case of not really knowing what to do with them, and the fact that he has a lot more work obligations than his son. And on top of that – he’s not a young man. He probably gets tired out, and needs a break sometimes too. And I don’t really see Will and Kate being like “hey dad, can you watch the kids on Sunday?” to initiate things either.
Because, aside from his royal duties (which he does well), he could be 2-3 hours away from the grandkids. You don’t drive 3 hours one way to pick them up from school.
If you are so bound to your duty as POW that you don’t alter your schedule to see your grandchildren more then remain bound to your duty and do not go passively aggressively whining to the press behind your son’s back. Affect change or shut up.
Your taxpayer funded duty? I’m fine with him not dropping those obligations.
Charles is a grown ass man who can drop by more often if he wants to be part of his grandchildren’s life. I get the impression he waits and waits for his “due” invitations, when he should be smart and make his time with his grandkids super fun. If his son wants so little to do with him, I think it’s far more likely that they never had a really warm relationship rather than an evil woman is coming between them! Maybe William doesn’t forgive his dad’s role in his mother’s troubles, who knows.
His schedule is arrange a year in advance. He has to keep doing the job or the firm dies, whether William wants to take it over or not. W&K have a responsibility here, to work around Charles’s schedule, because they DO NOT WORK.
So much insider information, so little proof, so much projecting!
Because it’s fun! Otherwise, where would all our Celebitchy posting be? BESIDES, reading other people’s takes on things is very interesting to me; often I learn entirely new perspectives. 😃
And yet you keep showing up and complaining about it.
Yep, just to redress things a little – you know for balance, like a glass in each hand.
Unless you’re working in the palace, the “balance” you bring is still your opinion.
And the other postings on here aren’t other people’s opinions?
And the DM has never been noted for its veracity.
I’d never take the DM as gospel, and I merely pointed out that your opinion is your opinion. No more or less valid then anyone else’s.
You show up every so often and make a condescending, belittling remark. Doesn’t make any sense and feels very troll-like to me.
Because some of the premises articulated, and attached comments, deserve it.
This is sad but I get the sense that Charles expects it to organically happen. He just doesn’t seem like a good communicator. My husbands parents are this way and we always feel like we are intruding on them when we try to spend more time with them… then they complain they never see us. I am not team Carole by any means bc I pretty much agree and believe all of this, but it goes both ways.
Even if this were all rumors and speculation (we get a repeat of this narrative once a year) I hate it when one set of grandparents is prioritised over the other. Those kids should be exposed to their royal relatives not because they’re better, but because they lead the lives they will lead in the future. The Middletons did nothing but raise three children with no skills or talent, and no concept of a work ethic/obligations. G and C will be supported my public money their whole lives – they need to learn.
Unless William and Carole prohibits Charles from even dropping by, he could definitely pop in for 30 minutes a couple of times a week, and spend time with the kids and their nanny. Limiting money seems petty, but he could definitely reduce Kate’s stipend for clothes. And make William pay for his children’s school fees. Both W&K need to pay for things themselves.
Charles works. He cannot “pop by”. And he shouldn’t have to conduct a relationship with his grandchildren on Carole’s terms.
I agree, but unfortunately this is how it is. If his grandchildren ask for him then not even Carole will be able to keep them from him. As it stands, do they even have a relationship? Does William even care if his children spend time with his father? Charles can’t force him into anything.
I don’t like Carole, nor do I like families keeping children from direct relatives. This family is a psychologist’s nightmare!
Orrrrr maybe Will genuinely likes Carole and Michael? Gets along with James and Pippa well? Everyone has a good time and is warm and likes to be with each other freely? As opposed to being proper and stiff around HRH and cry baby Charles? I don’t see why there always hasssssss to be drama. Maybe Will just likes his in laws. It’s possible.
Why does him liking his in-laws mean he cannot arrange a schedule where Charles can spend quality time with his grandchildren?
If William only wants to be a Middleton, he is welcome to walk away from his father’s side of the family and the family obligations it brings. But he has to walk away from the money and status too. As pointed out above, it is not just family relationships here. It is a family firm that is being exasperated and denigrated by William’s actions, the family firm that financially supports William and his family.
I can’t believe how old-fashioned I am for even posting this, but who doesn’t shave their beard for a portrait with the BRF?
Obviously, after Harry’s recent statement about not talking about his mother’s death until now, both son’s have anger towards the Royal family. Harry acted out his anger, doing crazy things in public and William, in private, directly socks it to his father and Queen mom
Yes, and I believe that this article was a response to the spate of articles about Diana. Charles has a habit of airing personal grudges in the media. Old habit.
“Obviously, after Harry’s recent statement about not talking about his mother’s death until now, both son’s have anger towards the Royal family.”
??????
Why isn’t Harry in this pic? Was he away at the time?
Yes.
William knew that Harry would be in Africa at this time and still arranged the Christening to that date. This is the reason that I think Harry has cooled on Kate – he still looks very comfortable with his brother, but not with Kate anymore. And I can see Carole encouraging an estrangement between Wills and Harry – I have a sister-in-law like this. It would give her even more power and influence over William.
If they’d waited for him to come home, they couldn’t have had the public parade/christening for Diana 2.0 a few days from Diana’s birthday in Diana’s childhood church.
Maybe Charles should learn how to make cheesy toast.
LOL
And Michael? Let’s not forget he applied twice for a COA. Also, will they(M and C) have an annex at any of the Matthews mansions? Hmmm…
Really? When did this happen? I thought he only requested it once Kate got engaged. I’m not sure she even needed one, but she would have been the first royal bride without one.
He first applied in 2007.
@LAK – thanks, I did not know this. They are ridiculous! What do they need a COA for?
They needed it in 2007, in preparation for something they hoped was going to happen imminently but almost didn’t happen, and only eventually happened after another 5 years.
Charles was not a good father, and between Harry admitting it’s taken him years to be able to talk about Diana and William being very clear he wants his children to have a stable childhood, as his notoriously wasn’t, I’m not surprised Charles rarely sees his grandchildren. As far as I can tell, the only real effort he’s made in his personal life has been Camilla.
If William doesn’t like his family he can stop taking their money that’s what a real man would do and harry seems very close to charles dose it not seem odd that he was out the the country but they still did the christening? William has two choices either get help to deal with his issues or get the fuck out off the line he hates them but likes there money!!!!!!!!!
He didn’t say it took him years to talk about their mother. They had counseling, loads of it, Charles arranged it. I think one of the former counselors ended up as a godmother to one of W&K’s children.
Harry said it took him years to talk about it in public. As in, he wasn’t ready to take the kind of ridiculous beating and tearing apart he’s getting from people who think his grieving process is any of their business (nods to Sixer for saying it much better in another thread).
Boy, I bet she’s got the dirt on him !!!
Diana was just as eager to leak stories. Even if she was still alive we still would be having leaked info. Middletons, NormalBil, Charles, Diana all have/had a leaking habit.
Could you imagine being a part of a family that sends messages by leaking stuff to the press? No thanks.
FYI, Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of Westminster has passed away at 64. His 25 year old son, godparent to W&K’s son, is now the 7th Duke.
Was he ill?
Not sure but the article at the Daily Mail said he was a chain smoker.
The statement read he passed away after he had “suddenly been taken ill”.
Has anyone been reading the excerpts from Ken Wharfe’s tell-all, in the DM the past few days? He a lead protection office for the Princes and then Diana in the late 80s and early 90s. Some really insider-y stuff , about Diana and Charles and the end of their marriage. What’s been put out so far does not do C&C any favors in the ethics department. I wonder if what we’re seeing from Harry recently about his mom is a reaction to this new material.
Whatever happened to non-disclosure agreements.
This book is a re-issue with perhaps a new chapter or 2 updates. Original was published in 2003.
Hi ya’ll….just a saying from where I’m from: “a son is a son ’till he takes a wife but a daughter is a daughter all of her life…
I like Charles, aristocratic quirky, he is a true Royal working very hard with his charities and functions, strong opinions on achitecture and a campaigner for the environment and takes an interesting actively in politics. I think he will be a good King. This is why Willie has to realise that his father needs a huge amount of one to be with his first born George. Unfortunately if you want to keep a Royal reign you can’t be “ordinary”and I would say, I may be wrong, but would not be at all surprised that George is getting very spoilt and Charles wants to desperately take him Under his wing. Unfortunately until Wills wakes up and smells the coffee the Midds will always be in charge.