Everybody’s favorite Becky-with-the-Bad-Perm is back. Rachel Dolezal is promoting her memoir, In Full Color, which we discussed last week. The memoir seems like a trip – Dolezal claims that her soul has always been black, even in her early childhood. As a kid, she used to look at the photos in National Geographic and wish she could be black… or African, or something. So a blonde-haired and light-eyed woman grew up to be a pretend black person. But please don’t call her a pretend African-American. Dolezal told Savannah Guthrie on the Today Show yesterday that she identifies as “black” but not African-American. Some assorted quotes:
She’s black: “I don’t identify as African-American, I identify as black. I am part of the pan-African diaspora. I definitely feel like, in America, even though race is a social construct and we’ve acknowledged this in academia and in science, there’s still a line drawn in the sand, there still are sides, politically there’s a black side and a white side, and I stand unapologetically on the black side. I stand with my own internal sense and values. I stand with my sons. I stand with my sister. And I also stand there really with the greater cause of challenging the myth of white supremacy. I really prefer to just be exactly who I am. And black is really the closest race and culture category descriptive term that represents the essential essence of who I am.”
Writing this book: “You know, the book was a difficult one to write, for sure. But I felt like it was kind of a little bit forced upon me as far as just the need to tell the whole truth about my life and the full story.”
Why she’s legally changed her name to Nkechi Amare Diallo: “I really felt like I needed to change my legal name in order to be seen for my qualifications and experience rather than just seen for the tabloid publicity that I got in 2015. When applying for a job, people were just seeing ‘Rachel Dolezal’ and not paying attention to the wide ranging experience and qualifications that I do have.”
Oh, yeah, she changed her name – that was announced a month ago. Her legal name is now Nkechi Amare Diallo, although she’s published this book under the name Rachel Dolezal. Messy. So messy.
The thing is… I believe race is mostly a social construct too. But science? Science will still show that Rachel Dolezal is a white woman pretending to be black. And I f–king love that she’s sitting there with her perm, talking about how her actions and lies have “challenged the myth of white supremacy.” Girl, do you realize that your literal appropriation of the black experience does more to further the reality of white supremacy????
“I don’t identify as African American, I identify as black,” said Rachel Dolezal to @SavannahGuthrie. https://t.co/dOAtGn96My
— TODAY (@TODAYshow) March 27, 2017
Screencaps courtesy of Today.
Bleah! And I did a little digging about her publisher and guess who else’s memoir they published……anyone remember Rielle Hunter?
I think that about sums it up. (Also, proud to say at this point that the library where I work has not acquired a copy, although I would understand if our non-fiction selector bought…say….one copy.)
Don’t worry about her being in your library, I can totally see someone offering her a reality t.v. deal. Reality tv is a race to the bottom these days.
Yeah….but one library copy costs like what, $10,000? They’re still lining her pockets if they do so.
No. One library copy will probably cost $16.58. With $10,000, you’re in throwing distance of a signed first edition of Martin Luther King, Jr.’s “Stride Toward Freedom.”
https://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/fisher-irving-king-jr-martin-luther/stride-toward-freedom/107704.aspx
Do libraries not get charged a ton for books on the rationale that they are read by so many people? Maybe it’s just an urban myth.
Libraries usually get a discount, not charged more, at least they used to when I was with a specialty library.
They get slammed on e-books, though!
Why do transgendered individuals receive so much support and Rachel does not? I’m not trying to stir the pot, I genuinely want to know.
I honestly have no idea. I don’t think they are that different. Gender is a social construct also.
Yes. Gender is just as much a social construct as race. Gender (“as a woman I am naturally more adept at vacuuming and cooking”) is a construct as is absolutely not wired into my genes.
Gender has a chromosomal basis. It produces quite significant physical variations in the organs of the different genders and their consequent capacities to conceive / bear / physically feed children. You can call it something else, the word is a social construction. But to pretend otherwise is an alternative fact. That is not a justification for outmoded stereotypes about gender roles however.
Literally don’t see a difference between this and the trans movement except that tanning isn’t dangerous, but force feeding a child hormonally dangerous pills is.
Gender (i.e. “sex roles”) does not have a chromosomal basis. I think you are thinking here about biological sex.
Dora girl…. Not today!!
And all of you guys ‘fascinated’ in and willing to answer this IGNORANT and HIGHLY OFFENSIVE AND DISGUSTING question with ‘yeah you’re right’ type answers. Y’all are tired and had a long day, why don’t you SIT DOWN and let someone else take the task on this one.
Not only did Bubbles insult trans people, she insulted black people at the same time. And all of you guys nodding your heads are in the same group.
your gender isn’t a choice, neither is your race. If you are black, You are black from the first cry in hospital, until your last night at the morgue, NOTHING will change this… bleaching your skin, putting on contacts, wearing wigs, changing your name/how you speak etc is a disguise it is NOT the truth
If you are a woman, born in a man’s body, you are a woman from your first cry in hospital until your last night at the morgue. NOTHING will change this… deepening your voice, going hunting, wearing suites, copying other men’s actions etc. is a disguise it is NOT the truth
There are some over here, who think people’s lives are CHOICES. There are some who think changing genders are choices people make, when in actual fact, it’s a TRUTH that they were hiding. Some people feel like my skin and my life experience is a choice, when in fact it’s a TRUTH that will never go away, I’m black.
*drops mic*
Thank you, BangersandMash
Wowowowow this thread.
@BangersandMash: THANK YOU! I was trying to put this into words, while at the same time worrying that as a white cisgendered woman I lacked the authority.
You own the truth, Bangers, in a way that I can’t. I’m applauding you all the way to dinner including ice cream AND fudge. You fricking rule.
@Bangers
You can drop the mic all day long and feel so good about the rant — but your comments re transgendered are completely refuted by science and those that identify as same……and the wiring of the brain for how it perceives race is also malleable as indicated in at least 2 of the articles I mentioned, So go on with your righteousness — that doesn’t make you right. Just stubborn and maybe close minded to possibilities of learning or considering new info.
I’ve kind of had it myself.
@BangersandMash
Not to defend Dolezal or to mix the two examples, but she claims exactly what you claim about trans people. She claims she’s a black woman born into white woman’s body, and that her styling is only to show what she really is because, like the body of a trans person, the outside doesn’t match the inside. She’s using psychological, not physical basis here, which makes sense based on how she claims she was raised.
Now, I don’t really believe her, so all of that is moot, but the logic is the same, only that she’s using brain wiring instead of hormones to explain it. So people linking the two are not that far off.
@Dee mic dropped to soon eh. LOL
This reminds me of that Verizon commercial where the guy is on stage talking about all the benefits of Verizon and he does a mic drop at the end but he has to pull out another mic because the audience still had questions. It was a mic drop fail, too funny.
@V4Real. NO kidding! I hate spoiling a rant and a mic drop and all…..but some people are legends in their own mind about their being right all the time…and the use of “mic drop” after a completely flawed rant is kind of funny.
I also wonder…..but when it comes to EEOC….our own govt provides defined racial classifications and then completely leaves it to an individual to self identify…….which legally must be accepted — nothing more required then an individuals own assessment, Of course that never stopped celebitches from 2nd and 3rd guessing,
Truthfully I do think this is a a woman who has grifted her way using race identity as a means to an end….as did Elizabeth warren at 1 point…..and I don’t trust her at all…..but acknowledging the possibilities here of the topic isn’t much of a stretch based on brain science. Something that really seems to irritate a few folks, I find that utterly amusing as if someone else’s choice to identify with them somehow diminishes their own identity. Seems like insecurity to me.
But that’s the point. Rachel Dolexal is NOT a black woman wrongly born into a white body. She identified as white for the longest time, even going so far to sue for racial discrimination ON THE GROUNDS OF HER BEING WHITE! Rachel Dolezal “changed” her race when it benefitted her professionally. That’s not being trapped in the wrong body, that’s flat-out lying.
Also, if an adult transgender woman, who lived as a male until the age of, let’s say: thirty, spoke about her experiences of misogyny as teenage girl, it would hold no merit either.
@Zeddy TANNING ISN’T DANGEROUS??? Why don’t you tell that to all the people being treated for melanoma? Please – because I really want to hear them take your dumbass comment down to the ground.
Hey @Dee and V4Real
Whaddup ladies?
Science…. yes, science has proven that race and gender identity is malleable. I get it, I hear you.
There have been PLENTY of people of colour who I know growing up who at one point wanted to be SEEN and TREATED and IDENTIFIED as white women. Who Were not pleased with their race and wanted and aimed for whiteness, (myself included) and science would have happily backed them up…
I don’t live in a scientific world, and my experience is that there comes a lot of pride and pain in being black, a lot of celebration and limitation in being black. Some black people MEET THEIR ENDS because they were black in the wrong place, at the wrong time. This is my reality…
To insinuate that what people like Laverne Cox have been through is basically the same as Rachel is insulting to the brave transgender community who some have MEET THEIR ENDS for being transgender in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Science is amazing, it’s facts we cannot dispute. I agree. However, being openly transgender in the world we live in today is nothing to lump in with Rachel’s situation.
You yourself don’t fully believe her story. Just like many many other people do. I believe SHE believes she was born black… But I think the truth lies under many decades of appropriation and getting away with it.
Unfortunately, the world is not evolved up to scientific levels yet. Until then, I’m still going to have to educate my siblings as to how to get by with our skin colour. And the same applies too a lot of LGBTQ people too.
BangersandMash you’re my hero today. Thank you.
Oops, guess my dumbass didn’t realise your dumbass didn’t know about spray tanning. Why don’t you look up the real results of feeding children these hormones (nevermind adult females) and then you can @ me about how scary a mole is. These hormones are just the liberal version of “pray the gay away”. Appalling.
Because afaik there isn’t a recognised condition where a person has been born one race, and has identified as another.
In the past anyone who was mixed race and could pass off as white would obviously do that as a result of discrimination, that isn’t the case here.
But there really have been plenty of people who were born one race but identified as another. I remember years ago on Oprah she did a show about exactly that. There were a few Black women who were light enough to pass for White and that’s what they did. They were not biracial, both their parents were Black but just very light. Of course there was probably another race in their ancestry but for the most part they were Black.
But it is almost a double standard , a person who feels they are trapped in the wrong gender can change that and get all the support but if someone feels they are trapped in the wrong race they are considered an idiot and they must hate themselves or their race.
Bottom line, race IS a social construct. An invented, Non Scientific way to discriminate against those whose appearance may be different. Racial categories have also changed. Indians were once categorized as Caucasian but are now categorized as Asian or south Asian. I have a varied heritage with ancestors from all over, as does my husband. My children identify as mixed, not black. They are proud of their black heritage but want to acknowledge ALL of it. My husband who looks white identifies as black. Why? Because he’s American and was raised with the one drop rule. My husband’s paternal grandfather is mostly French Canadian. His paternal grandmother is white, Cree and black. His mother is German and English. Wherever he goes people see him and his siblings as white, he does not. He says he’s black.
I’m also very mixed born in the Caribbean. I have European, native and a bit of African heritage. My mother identifies as Caribbean creole, she is from the islands. She refuses to label herself as Hispanic/ Latina even though her first language spoken in her home is Spanish because her grandfather is Sephardic Jew from Spain. On her mother’s side she is German, Scottish and English. When young my mother was a dead ringer for Ingrid Bergman, but she claims she is neither white nor Latina but creole. She identifies with her birth island, the music, the history and the culture. She has no recent African ancestry as far as we know. At least not in the last few hundred years. But in her mind, she is creole. My father also grew up speaking Spanish, his mother is indigenous Quechua, his father is very dark Honduran with obvious white and African heritage. My father identifies as Latino or Caribbean. So be it. It is what he feels closest to. So, my belief is that there is no such thing as race, humans came out of Africa, it is the motherland. There is ethnicity and family culture which we may or may not feel close to. I accept that Rachel, like my mother, feels closer to black culture because of her experiences and her partners and her children. We are all African at our core. Our ancestors have journeyed to many places and we have that in our DNA. But we are one. My children are multi ethnic and that is what they choose to identify as.
@yetanotherjudy ummm what? A “non scientific construct?” Are you freakin serious?! How is DNA non scientific? How are genetics non scientific? How can we identify someones race with nothing more than skeletal remains?
Nicole, there is no genetic test which enables someone’s race to be identified from skeletal remains.
TrixC no but there are ways to determine a persons race by their skeleton just as they are ways to determine sex. And it is considered a scientific process
@v4real light skinned black people or biracial people who pass for white typically do it out of necessity, self hate, to avoid the discrimination that comes with being black, to take advantage of white privilege, or a combination of some or all of those factors.
Dolezals shenanigans should not be compared to that.
We can all talk kumbaya all we want and go on about their being no scientific basis for race but the truth is, it matters. People were enslaved due race. People were lynched due to race, denied the right to vote, have property, denied an education, housing, access to the “American” dream because of race.
Blackness is not a coat that you can decide to put on and take off at will.
Interesting question. My response would be that Rachel seems to be manipulating her identity to turn a profit – at least, it seems that way to me.
She talks about the racism she’s suffered, etc., as if she has lived that experience her whole life. When it comes down to it, she is a white person masquerading as a black person who still has all of the advantages she grew up with as a white girl. Case in point: her white education/upbringing made it so that when she got a dark spray tan she could become a black instructor or the president of the NAACP.
Also, I will say that male-to-female transgender athletes do not receive very much support. I think the situation is similar to Rachel’s in that you see a person coming from a background of power/privilege (with M2F atheletes it’s physical power) and recreating themselves in a way that forces those with less power/privilege to now compete with them. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but I think that’s what causes the contention.
Rachel is using “black” to her advantage and taking jobs that would otherwise go to natural born black people.
Rachel is mentally ill, as evidenced by her plagiarism and fraud issues.
Transgendered people are born with a brain that tells them that they are the opposite gender of their body, and this is not a mental illness whatsoever. If she had just said that she has a great appreciation of black/African culture, that she respectfully feels a kinship with the cultures and prefers to identify with people from those cultures despite the fact that she is white, there would be no real problem. It’s the fact that she spent years living a lie while pretending to be something she isn’t that has drawn the ire of so many, and rightfully so.
I think I responded in the wrong place. 🙂
@Tegteg The NAACP has always had multiracial leadership. It was started with both blacks and whites, and, yes, I’ve met white chapter presidents of the NAACP. This especially happens in places that don’t have large black populations, so in Spokane, it wouldn’t have been at all odd to have Rachel leading the chapter there as a white woman. The same goes for teaching ethnic studies courses. You don’t have to be a person of color to teach such a course, just like you don’t have to be a student of color to attend a historically black college. In fact, in college in Mississippi, Rachel was president of the black student group there, so she knew as much. I just wanted to clarify this idea that black organizations are somehow exclusionary. There are in many ways more inclusive than traditionally white groups, companies and establishments.
Because transgender people think as whatever the gender they identify with and don’t change. This woman has identified as white and sued a university, I think, for racism. And afterwards she identified as black, found a “father” etc. It’s all about the ability to go from one to the other as she pleases and profit from it in the process (scolarships, jobs). It’s about creating a network of lies around her and not a feeling of inner truth within oneself.
You wouldn’t believe Caitlyn Jenner talking about her struggle as a woman would you? She has been one for about two years. She has no idea. Dolezal, on the other hand, made it her job to talk about the struggle of being black without ever having gone through any of it.
I don’t think that’s completely true about identifying and not changing. Based on reports, the transgendered Arquette sibling that died last year shared with those close a decision to live as male again. I think the struggle is such that it can happen.
The brain is powerful and mysterious
I asked this question in a previous thread and got insulted by the usual suspects who struggle with nuances.
Not sure I believe this woman to be anything but a grifter…but it is a fascinating question that perhaps shouldn’t be dismissed……
And there was a Time article that’s. Fascinating read that touches on the possibility…
Also from the Washington post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/black-like-her-is-racial-identity-a-state-of-mind/2015/06/16/765b5a42-142d-11e5-9518-f9e0a8959f32_story.html?utm_term=.3b7b0c83032f
“It’s about creating a network of lies around her and not a feeling of inner truth within oneself.” Beautifully put. I also liked your point that, “You wouldn’t believe Caitlyn Jenner talking about her struggle as a woman would you? She has been one for about two years. She has no idea.”
Because there are discernible brain differences between genders, and trans individuals do not have the markers of the gender assigned to them at birth. There aren’t any brain structure or hormone differences between a Black woman and a white woman.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/
Yes, I was going to say that gender does not equate with race. Those are two very different things. One is a scientific fact and the other a traceable background in terms of geneology but the difference it garners is a cultural one. In that sense, what she is doing is appropriation for very selfish and narcissistic purposes.
Are you arguing for “lady brain”? The science is very weak there. There may be differences between men’s and women’s brains but this is likely due to enculturation rather than intrinsic differences. Culture changes and rewires the brain, just as learning a language or musical instrument rewires the brain. Controlling for culture is difficult if not impossible when observing brain “differences”. Arguing that men and women have different brains by virtue of their sex is just as problematic (and bad scientifically) as arguing that black and white people have different brains.
@MD1
Please. Let’s not twist eachother’s words ok? If there were no gender differences, transgender people wouldn’t need to change sex right? Did you know that there are several diseases that manifest differently in women than in men, also mental illnesses such as Aspergers (and thus, because we don’t count, there were many undiagnosed women Aspies)?
The brain is not separated from the body and, as you say, it re-wires itself. So your argument goes both ways as long as you don’t separate the brain from the body it is attached to. A hormonal body, amongst other things.
This does not mean that women are less than men or wired to do the cooking – now THAT is a social contruct.
Not trying to twist words but we do have to make sure we agree on the meaning of the words we are using. Gender and sex are often used interchangeably but they don’t mean the same thing. Gender (i.e. “sex roles”) is cultural and is not located in the brain or the chromosomes. Biological sex is of course chromosomal. And of course there are sex differences. The notion that sex differences should be translated into a hierarchical relationship, however, is a question of gender, which is culturally and socially constructed. I have no problem with the notion of sex difference, but the notion of innately sexed brains is problematic for the same sorts of reasons that Charles Murray’s work is problematic on the relationship between “race” and IQ….Men’s and women’s brains are more alike than different, and my brain is no more innately female than my liver. Sorry.
Not true, there are vast differences in race. Skull size, shape, body proportions, diseases affect races differently, some races get certain diseases that others don’t, and so on. It does nobody any favors to ignore reality so we can pretend we aren’t different. Because we are. And when we refuse to acknowledge it, medical advances can’t be made and people die. Do you really want people of any race to suffer and die when it could be prevented by a honest and unflinching study into the realities of racial differences? Enough of the signaling and preening, just admit what we all know and use it for good for once.
@MD1 It’s funny that you seem more concerned with sex and gender differences and being defensive against the gender constuct than actually moved by the exploitation of a race by Dolezal for her own purposes (as has been proved over and over again). Sex and gender are not separated completely obviously, otherwise there would be sports of all. So there is biology and construct tied together and these issues are very hard to untangle. You seem to have an agenda that I don’t quite comprehend.
What I do understand is a con when I see one and Dolezal is artificially riding on this wave where people will start listening to any bullshit a white woman will say, the more the bullshit, the more publicised it is.
Why do people insist on asking this ignorant question every time?
It’s just a question. I applaud people trying to educate themselves rather than running around with half-formed and mistaken beliefs/ideas.
Why insult without providing evidence of your position?
I actually like the fact that this website allows these types of discussions. Everyone provided well-reasoned comments, except for yours.
JESUS XAVIER CHRIST ORIGINALLYBLUE This is where I am In a Line Rubbing my temples cause if this is not a WATCH WHITENESS WORK IN FUCK!NG ACTION, This Is what her Actual whiteness is giving her, a White woman, That itd never give me : A Group of her peers with “compassion” and “Understanding” bending over backwards to damned near try to fund a study to AFFIRM HER ON HER BULLSH!T and try to somehow in some way extend her this Understanding of her newly triggerered after suing an HBCU “condition” , tv stations giving her air, publicity, a f*ckass book deal LET ME OR YOU OR ANY BLACK GIRL TRY TO USURP ANY OF THESE B*CKYS (LOL, Ya’ll try so hard sometimes!, these constituencies overlap af) AND BOLD FACED SIT HERE IN JOB APPS GRANTS OR WHATEVER ELSE COME SAY WE’RE WHITE IDENTIFIYING AND TELL ME NOT HOW FAST BUT FOR HOW.FUCK!NG .LONG IN EVERDOM would we not be Laughed at, gotten out the paint !!?
I cant do this mental labor b*llshit exercises yall want us to do on today, Also .. Stop covering this Usurping ass Vapid trashatlantic White North American B*tch
I’m with you QQ. I’m white so obviously I can’t understand the deep seeds of your specific frustration. But the pure ass ignorant ridiculousness happening on this thread is making me physically ill. Hug me.
QQ – I agree. Look what happened to Raven just for saying she didn’t identify as one particular race. Or on the threads about Beyonce, i,e, she “tries to be white” by having blonde hair.
QQ: Oh come on, apparently you can simply choose to identify as white and poof! all the issues you face/have faced/will always face will be gone. That’s what this is, right? You pick and choose.
Please. To everyone asking for understanding: Do you REALLY think this would work if a black woman simply decided she was white? Stop it. Identify with whatever “construct” you want but society will slap you down if you do it as a non-white person.
I Mean For Reals You Guys ( not yall specifically ^^^ I see you girls I mean In the general!) Think for a second what you’re asking to us actual black people that sometimes choose to engage with you in gossip to consider and extend our our already over taxed selves here for … Just … SMDH Is Just Insulting cause i know the kind of work since time immemorial Black women put ON even an excellent Black woman to get anywhere, and this Trash ass bloated assclown (and others .. I see yall Kardashians) cant even be bother to let our Physical selves be.. everything is taken, is legit the Parable of Get Out.. where even our experiences, our eyes cant be our without someone needing to co-opt.. is creepy, gross and predatory, and I’m serious giving attention to this woman is no better than giving gossip air to Lohan, Octomom and assorted bottom feeders just chuffed to get any kind of attention to move up on the ecosystem.. WE GOTTA CUT HER OFF
Let’s not forget this woman was mailing herself racist hate mail, claiming to be a victim of white supremacist harassment and said the abuse she suffered as a child was essentially how slaves were treated. How anyone can defend her after all of that, I don’t know. I find it offensive when people try to use the “well then what about transgender people?” argument when it comes to her because of the above.
It never takes long for the fuckery to start QQ. People will always cape for WW. Just look at people who suddenly are pro-Tami Lohren even though she’s outright racist. But oh look shes pro-life so WW are suddenly cool with her. Always happens
I really wish these comment sections were seen more as a debate. It’s ridiculous that someone asks a question, starts a discussion (with fors and against involved) that it is shot down by people determined they hold the correct opinion. I am very left politically but I can seek how the right get so infuriated and eye rolley with the holier than thou left that have piped up here!
You only make the other side more firmly stuck in their original position. Less likely to ask more questions and educate themselves. Maybe that’s how you want them though? For them to remain confused or ignorant and cement your positions as the bestest and most educated of all people?
Missed a mr: No, that’s not the point here. And the poor “right”. I know. They’re always the ones who want to have reasonable debates.
If a strong opinion opposing your own re-affirms your views, you were not prepared to have a debate in the first place. When you notice that someone doesn’t want to engage you for whatever reason or is bein an a** about it, why would that re-affirm you views? On a topic you want to educated yourself on? How is that a thing? You stick to your guns just because someone with the opposite views is unlikeable??? “She’s pro-choice and she’s mean to me. That’s why I’m pro-life.” Really?
Late to this thread. For once I’m glad to be late. You guys have said it all and then some. *helps rub QQ’s temples*
No country for this fraudulent , self serving chick EVER!
QQ is my spirit animal today. Thank you. I am so tired of hearing about this grifter, and tired of hearing people defend her grifting, and SO tired of hearing it compared to being transgender. This grifter made a choice to pose as black to get ahead, after realizing that her argument that she was discriminated against for being white wasn’t going to work.
I saw this yesterday and was waiting for you, QQ.
I just can’t with this mess. I’m actually feeling second-hand embarrassment over soooo much of it.
Because anyone could be transgender if that’s how they feel. There are genetic studies that show trans brains are closer to their chosen gender. Rachel is a white woman benefitting from privilege when she chooses too. Black people cannot shed their identity ever. It’s a smack in the face essentially because at any point she could “quit” being black. It doesn’t work both ways as it does if you are transgender
That and she’s a liar that once sued for discrimination because she was white. So she clearly uses her whiteness when it works for her
There are plenty of stories of people living as “other” races….so I can’t agree with your post.
Just one. Look on NPR for a story called “A Chosen Exile”
Okay cool? Just because people do it doesn’t mean there’s any basis for it other than their own reasons. Fact still stands that people can revert back to their race whenever they feel like it.
This is going to be a very basic response to gender vs race question- because one is chromosomal/physiological and one is the equivalent of racial LARPing. Your physical body and brain have a deciding purpose- gender, sexual orientation etc and then you can have preference. This lady has preference. It’s not my thing, I think she’s offensive. However equating transgender, etc to this is apples and bullshit. It’s a very interesting question tho- our concept of what is social construct and therefore more valid or invalid, our place to judge that validity, and it’s Cross sections in social consciousness.
Because transgender people literally feel trapped in the bodies they were born in, whereas Rachel simply wants to be in the position where she can pretend to be the biggest victim. She feels as if, being born as a white woman, she doesn’t have enough people to feel sorry for her. So she pretends to be black. Give it a few years. Once it becomes clear that she isn’t getting enough victim-based attention from being black, she’ll be transgender too. But make no mistake, it’s because she has a pathological need to be a victim. Not because she feels like her own body is a cage from which she can’t escape
Both are social constructs so she does have a point.
Personally I think both should be considered mental illnesses.
And treating kids to hormone therapy before their bodies have developed and taking away their choice should be considered rape because that is exactly what it is.
The nuts have taken over the nut house and yes, that is why we have trump today, ironically. I personally believe the bathroom issue and the whole trans movement was a big reason for his win.
I suspect you are right but we don’t know this woman, so is a rush to judge really fair? It is such an interesting question, and there IS enough science and evidence to at least have the conversation (I posted about 2 articles).
You think transgender people should be treated as if they have a mental illness? Do you not understand how hurtful and ignorant that is? I have a few transgender friends that would tell you that only when they were in their “misgendered” bodies did they feel ill– suicidal, trapped, depressed. Now that they’ve transitioned, they feel like themselves, and the difference is astounding. I’ve seen photos of one of my friends before she transitioned and the difference in her eyes is heartbreaking but so beautiful. Before the transition, she looked so haunted. Now, she is bright and clear. And she fights every day for the right to be considered a human being. How dare you?
Dee, Dolezal first got noticed 2 years ago, and there were plenty of investigative articles about her, it’s not a rush to judgement. There’s too much evidence in her history that she is using this partly as a con job,
Shambles, this is rhetorical but do you have any idea what causes a person to have a ‘pathological need to be a victim?’ I don’t understand that particular thought process at all. Most victims I’ve met don’t want to be thought of as one. To actively seek out victimhood makes no sense to me.
@Nn
“Personally I think both should be considered mental illnesses.
And treating kids to hormone therapy before their bodies have developed and taking away their choice should be considered rape because that is exactly what it is.”
Ah. I see. A generation ago you would have considered homosexuality a disease too. Or do you support conversion camps still?
trans rights activists, and scientist, have been doing a lot of work on the early identification of transgendered individuals. Most transgendered people know they are in the wrong body very very young. Forcing them through puberty in a body that is the wrong sex causes more trauma and damage, and makes it harder to transition.
It is a delicate balance, as making permanent choices about your body at a young age is generally not allowed, but the harms of refusing hormone suppression are much greater. We need to allow children agency over their own bodies, and have to strike the right balance between paternalistic care and that agency.
You need to give up on the idea that your opinion matters. In this case, it matters not at all, and is most likely harmful.
@ LadyD, you probably only know actual victims. If you’ve ever found someone that NEEDS to be a victim, they usually aren’t. It’s like munchausens, it’s a bastardized version of needing people to pay attention to you. At a certain point pity is acceptable over nothing.
Because there is no such thing as “transracial”. This woman has no idea what it is like to be a black woman. And given her history of playing the victim and suing over racism for being white, she is nothing more than an attention seeking troll.
People would have said the same thing about trans people at one point.
@Dora
That is an ignorant and racist statement. Transracial is not a thing because putting on makeup does not create a culture or a history of having that race or ethnicity. And in the case of being black, this woman has no concept of the struggle. She is a troll. And frankly, so are the people who defend her. Because the reality the only people who support her are people who want to pretend that racism does not exist.
Actually what Dora said is not ignorant (people love throwing that word around, I guess it makes them seem so smart and above it all)
Anyways in the 50’same and 60”s law and medicine did not respond to transgender people in a favorable way. So yes, at one point society did say a transgender person have no clue what it was like to be the opposite sex.
But you guys are right Rachel had no clue what it was like to be a Black woman , until she started living as one. She grew up with her White privilege but as soon as she decided to live as a Black woman I’m sure people who did not know she was White treated her like a Black woman. Maybe she had a chance to experience some of what we as Black women face everyday.
@V4Real
Actually it is ignorant. It is pretty clear that Donezal is nothing more than a troll. Otherwise she never would have made the bizarre claim that she was “too black for her black husband”. http://thegrapevine.theroot.com/rachel-dolezal-says-she-was-too-black-for-her-black-hus-1793598928
Also, she doesn’t look black. She looks like a white woman with a bad tan and a bad perm/wig.
Three is no such thing as transgender either. The “ladybrain” theory mentioned several times in these comments is sexist crap (and had been debunked).
Bubbles, transgendered individuals do not receive so much support. There is a huge outcry of where they can pee for F’s sake. The suicide rates are through the roof, even after transition.
Perhaps it’s a symptom of a mental illness and not “trapped in the wrong body”. Nobody even considers this, they just scream and carry on instead of trying to help these people. Obviously transitioning doesn’t help many of them so maybe we need to find something that works and doesn’t make the greedy medical cartels even more money. Because I think they’re exploiting mentally ill people to make money with their current views on the subject. Not popular and it provides no avenue for signaling so I doubt it will be well received here. Lol not that I imagine any of my views are 😏
Transitioning often doesn’t help them because they are not accepted by people that frequently tell them they’re wrong, they’re not people, and they’re suffering from mental illness. Don’t blame their unhappiness on the simple issue of transitioning, it’s much more complex than that.
Because Rachel has a long, long history of lying, scamming, and engaging in racist behaviour.
It’s not comparable to a transperson. There have been a few isolated cases of adult men (mainly MRAs) – men who never “identified” or presented as anything other than cisgender males – spontaneously at an adult age announcing that they “identify as women” but without doing anything to transition or live as a woman, without giving up male privilege, and in most cases doing so in order to access female-only spaces. Like the male-bodied person who claimed lesbians were obligated to have sex with them and their erect penis. I don’t consider those individuals to be trans (I am a GLBT and a huge trans supporter and trans activist), but cismen exploiting the trans movement for their own ends. I consider Dolezal to be the same.
Transpeople have always existed throughout history, and generally they know they are trans from a young age and are compelled to become the other sex. Rachel is the only case afaik of someone identifying as “transracial” and despite her claims about always feeling black there are court documents and family testimony suggesting that she identified completely as white until her late twenties. She decided to “turn black” in order to apply for a BAME position after unsuccessfully suing her university for anti-white discrimination, dying her skin and dying and perming her hair in order to pretend to be black, showing photos of a black man she is not related to and lying that he was her father, and instructing her adopted black siblings to pretend she was their birth sister (her siblings are on the record as saying she told them, “I’m pretending to be black, don’t give me away.”
Trans people don’t actively lie that they are biological women and they don’t apply for posts that are exclusively for cis-women and then order their families to lie that they’re biologically female. Yes, many transwomen want to pass (in order to avoid abuse and harassment), but I think if a transwoman came across a financial opportunity that said “for cis-women only” they might complain about trans discrimination, but they wouldn’t pull their families into a scam pretending they were born with a vagina.
More broadly, race is a non-binary social construct that comprises many different cultural and familial factors and exists just as much as a product of societal attitudes. I personally have struggled with my own racial identity due to being of mixed heritage, white-passing, and the fact some of my heritage is of a specific ‘tribe’ that society in general can’t reach a consensus on whether that tribe is white or not!
There is an argument to be made about similarities in terms of cultural/societal trans influences. I know a number of trans* people (mainly biological females who choose to identify as genderless) who reject womanhood due to the associated patriarchal crap that comes with it. But they are not transsexual (although they come under the trans* umbrella) because they don’t identify as men or desire to be male. I’m sure there are lots of non-white people who have desired to cast off their race due to the simple fact of not wanting to deal with the insane amount of racism that exists in our society, or in some cases internalised racism.
I know beautiful black women who grew up believing their skin was dirty or trying to scrub the blackness off – this is not being “transracial” it’s a reaction to being raised in a society where you are constantly bombarded with racist and colourist messages.
And it’s really about power dynamics. Yes, male privilege and white privilege exists, but it is a mistake to assign male privilege to transwomen, when transwomen are so much more vulnerable and have much higher rates of abuse, harassment, discrimination and murder than ciswomen. Transwomen do not have the option to not be trans because it would cause legitimate psychological damage and would be physically impossible for individals who are further down the line in their reassignment. Black people don’t have the option to stop being black. If Dolezal wants to a break from the oppression of being black (assuming she experiences any) all she has to do is remove the makeup and fake hair. Do you think it would cause her psychological harm to do so? And if she really is black on the inside, why the blackface? Not all transwomen wear skirts and makeup. Being trans is more than a cheap drag act.
Transgender people are a protected class because, well, they are clearly a discrete group of people. They exist and their oppression is a matter of statistics and public record. Transracial people are not a protected class because there is no evidence they even exist beyond this one person, and no evidence she has ever been victimised for being transracial.
good question. I had an interesting conversation with a colleague the other day. He is a 5th generation Canadian on his mom’s side, and 3rd on his dad’s. He is of East Indian descent from his dad and is very dark, and Caucasian on his mom’s. He married a caucasian, their daughter are very light – white skin. His mom is white, his grandparents are white, his cousins are white. His friends are multi racial now,but when he grew up they were all white. He told me he has a hard time when our Asian or Middle Eastern families identify with him because he identifies as white. He grew up in a very white community, and lived without his dad in a ‘Canadian’ traditional home with the customs of a Caucasian family.
Bubbles, almost (if not all) every trans person I know has considered suicide. Dolezal, who herself was abused by her parents as a child, is doing this for attention and access to things she will never get if she was white. She is basically C. Thomas Howell in Soul Man.
Without getting into the thorny issue of gender as a social construct, the major difference here is that the racial dyanmic here does not work in reverse. Simply by being white, she has privileges that cannot be eschewed or ignored merely by her identifying as black. She simply cannot forfeit the experience of whiteness for a genuine black existence, and that’s extraordinarily problematic and insulting in a world where systematic and social racism exist. and A black individual cannot trade their skin color or racial characteristics for a more privileged white experience. We know this is not possible because we witness it all the time when celebrities cave to social pressure – skin bleaching, hair relaxation/extensions, rhinoplasty, etc. Changing yourself to look more Caucasian may result in minimal gains, but the individual can never fully divest themselves of their blackness in order to maximize their social experience in a realm of privilege.
Simply by being a man, Bruce Jenner has privileges that cannot be eschewed or ignored merely by him identifying as a woman. He simply cannot forfeit the experience of maleness for a genuine female existence, and that’s extraordinarily problematic and insulting in a world where systematic and social sexism exist.
What is your response supposed to mean? That gender is equivalent to race, rendering my statement null? Because they are not fundamentally the same thing, nor is Caitlyn Jenner representative of the norm. Gender ties into a number of other complex mechanisms including biological factors and variable ideas of sexual norms.
We call Caitlyn Jenner transgender because she is physically living as a transgender. She has female chromosomes, maybe female organs (I don’t know how far she has gone in the process) and still has male organs.
How is Rachel Dolezal black? Is she more black than my friend whose family comes from Jamaica, who has a name like Jane Smith, has straight hair, dislikes rap music, went to Ivy League schools, and now works on Wall Street?
Caitlyn does not have xx chromosomes, we cannot alter DNA that way. She receives hormone treatments to assist in femininization, but her DNA will not reflect that. Nor will she have a uterus. I don’t know the status of her surgical journey, as many transwomen never get bottom surgery, but she will never have a uterus regardless of her getting a vagina constructed. What she has done is change her gender (not biological sex) to present the gender identity she believes she was always meant to be, which can be done regardless of surgical status (as it is deeply personal), and which is why gender is considered a social construct and sex is biological.
This isn’t a dig at Caitlyn or trans individuals, just a correction of what I maybe misinterpreted (?) from your original statement.
Valid point Bubbles. Wondering that myself.
I have the exact same question. I’m so confused and genuinely want to know.
I would like to know also. No animosity, please. We are genuinely curious.
Because they are different! Being transgender is very different to trying to be another race. Without getting too heavily into the science of it, men and women have different body parts and think differently. Science shows that a trans-man for example, often has a brain which functions more like that of a cis gendered man. Take out the cultural expectations and crap we have learned and race is no more than skin deep. Of course these cultural expectations apply to gender too but as I’ve just pointed out, there is more to gender. Lets hope that over time we can unlearn some of the stupid notions that we still hold about both gender and race.
BangersandMash, drop your mic and leave because your wall of text rant is a ridiculous knee-jerk dismissal of what has sparked an interesting debate. Don’t let your fat ego hit you on the way out.
One question? I was born a black woman, with dark brown skin and African features. With all the injustice towards me and other black people, can I be white? Really tell me how can I be perceived as a white women when I want to get a job or rent an apartment. How can I change my race in order to be not racial profiled? Sounds ridiculous just like her and some of you!
Z
As a transracial person, I support her. As someone who created a tragic history to get a job, who filed false reports to the police about harassment, and as someone who sued her University for featuring black students work over her own (and lost), I don’t. You can believe in a person’s rights to identify how they please without supporting the individual’s actions. Similarly, I support Ms. Jenner’s rights to be a woman but I still think she failed to pay attention to traffic and killed a woman and that she has despicable taste in presidents and that she is a total failure as an LGBT advocate.
Thank you, BangersandMash. I am reading these responses and it’s the same: Not today. I think the whole shift towards talking so very earnestly and tolerantly about gender issues is a deflection because this country chronically cannot speak about race with substance and meaning and truth. For instance, I really have zero interest in wealthy/famous Caitlyn Jenner’s professional victimhood when our brothers are getting gunned down by the police.
And it’s all out there for you folks to see.
Where is the outrage that our American brothers and sisters continue to be treated as third class citizens in the land of the free? SMH.
I also do not understand why Celebitchy has promoted TWO threads to the counterfeit sister and her garbage book.
Race matters must not constitute as gossip. I come here to ESCAPE, not to get my blood boiling over modern day wearers of black face.
Rachel made her own bed. Sentiments of sympathy for her mental disease do her and the rest of us zero good.
Focus on those who actually deserve love and empathy, PLEASE. Use your common sense.
Thanks.
I am very disturbed by this black policing. During the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, during and after slavery, a major theme of black writing was that of the phenotypically “white” person identifying–choosing–black identity. It was seen as brave. One of the things that distinguishes this community from many others is the capacious understanding of black identity. Some of the folks who reported on lynching, doing truly heroic work for the NAACP around WWI, were white-looking “black” folks like Walter White. (White may have has as much “blackness” as many Americans who are “white.”) This obsession with black purity is both a reflection of the internalization of racial supremacy (a gift from white supremacy) and the real pain of those who can’t “choose” blackness–especially black women, who seem more angry with R.D. than black men. Equally troubling are those who speak of racial identity in scientific terms, engaging in the same pseudo-science as the eugenicists currently finding a new voice in American politics. Genetically, there is more in common interracially than interracially, despite Sickle Cell of Tay Sachs. This is what scientists believe, but we are so hung up on hair, eye color and skin color that we can’t see shared humanity. In other words, we would never look at a black cat, stripped cat and white cat and ascribe all of the differences we ascribe to human beings, differences that are sociological, geographical and historically based.
Great, very interesting comment, Magwaisca!
@bubbles
I tried to say that yesterday (albeit angrily but not disrespectfully)…. and my comment was “conveniently” not posted LOL
Race (man made construct) / Gender (man made construct)
Sex (biological) / ethnicity-heritage-gene (biological)
I think its more so having to do with a former blonde white woman (we can argue maybe tried to capitalize at one point on race or was dishonest about her heritage) coming thru the fire STILL wanting to look and be black…. that’s novel concept outside of monolithic blackness society try to box black people in (the big butt, corn rows, gold teeth stereotypes and silly appropriations)
its like this lady is bizarre, why would she want to identify as black …LOL
Thanks, ladies. I appreciate your feedback.
At this point I almost, but just almost feel bad about making fun of her. She must have some kind of mental health problem. So bizarre.
She is obviously mentally ill and while her actions are awful, she deserves compassion and I find it interesting that this site has none for her. Lots of mentally ill people do awful things but they are always shown compassion and understanding here. Why is this different?
*IF* she is mentally ill (and no it isn’t obvious as she has a pattern of opportunistic behavior) then perhaps she should be quietly receiving treatment for her “condition” instead of doing another publicity tour?
And I’ll save my compassion for the struggles that many REAL black women face on the daily.
How does she deserve compassion? Her entire history is a litany of lying and grifting. If a truly black woman did that she’d be in the clink.
Rachel or whatever her name has a family to support so whatever.
I think no matter how dumb this story is I do think there is some truth in her views.
OOOOOOkkkkkkkkkkk someone had a big bowl of crazy for breakfast:)
I am really sick of obviously deranged people being interviewed and published as if they were sane. We spend more time listening to them than to scientists, specialists, thinkers, [real] politicians etc. Obviously not talking about this site that has, for a gossip place, a lot of thinking and shared knowledge.
Ex: she changed her name to get jobs but she is saying her new name on TV.
I can’t even.
Please pay no attention to her deranged tokenism.
It is certainly a symptom of what is wrong with society nowadays but unfortunately she is not the best spokesperson to fix our many problems with inequality and racism.
I know a woman from a very white area of Europe (no black native population at all) who said she feels like she’s a black woman from Bronx or Brooklyn, I don’t remember which one. She also insisted in calling me ‘b****h’, saying that that’s what black women over there call each other. Sorry to say but I found this very cookoo.
Lmao. That’s so must have been weird for you. That’s the problem with non black people who want to identify as black. They think being black is certain behavior usually ghetto, loud, rude…. as if all black people act the same, talk the same, etc.
A former white classmate of my brother told him that he was blacker than him because he used to get into fights all time… to him being black= delinquent.
It was weird and uncomfortable and it made me very upset. Had I been black the whole situation would have been more insulting.
Equating being black with delinquency is very stupid. There is no excuse for that.
She’s out of her mind. Just my opinion of course.
You are not alone.
But … but … oh my God my brain can’t even follow this f*ckery.
Listen, race is a social construct but that doesn’t mean you CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WILLY-NILLY like this! I can’t wake up tomorrow and identify as Asian. Why? Because my parents are frickin’ German and Greek. I grew up like that. Not in an Asian country, not with Asian parents or relatives. I can appreciate and study, for example, Japan and its culture but that doesn’t make me Asian or Japanese. That is not my experience. And this is where I get angry. You can’t cherry pick. You can’t decide that you “identify” as black when you haven’t lived it. When you pick the good and will never experience the bad.
How do you even … I can’t. My brain hurts. And this perm. Why the perm? If it’s just a social construct and you can simply “identify”, why try to look black? Apparently it’s not important anyway. This is not what social construct means.
This woman is not black. Stop it. She’s a con-artist and a troll and is just looking for attention. Talking about being black, she had no problem trying to sue Howard for allegedly discriminating against her for being white. She was too mediocre to make it as a white woman, so she tried exploiting the experiences of black women and people for her own gain. Taking positions and opportunities from black people and using our experiences for profit. She should be paid dust. She’s a white person showing just how entitled some white people are when it comes to us. They feel like they can just waltz right into our culture, spaces, communities, and even race just because they feel like it.
I bet her ass did take a DNA test, it just didn’t show what she wanted, so that’s why we don’t see it.
Do you feel this way about men who call themselves women. It’s the same issue.
Gender and race are not the same thing.
You’re changing the subject in order to fuel your own ignorant beliefs. This discussion has nothing to do with gender. Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. It’s been proven that transgender people are hormonally similar to the gender they identify with. Race has nothing to do with hormones.
Agree with you, Dora. It is the same thing but we’re not supposed to acknowledge that big pink elephant in the room with a sign around its neck that says duh.
We only accept one over the other because society has deemed one acceptable, backed up by rich lobbyist of course.
No it is not the same issue. To claim they are the same is offensive.
My heart is broken by the pure ignorance on this thread. A handful of people just waiting for the opportunity to say “but trans people aren’t people!” You all saw it and you jumped at it, as soon as someone else validated your fear and ignorance by voicing what you were too shy to say. Trans men are men. Trans women are women. I will say it all day every f*cking day.
Men ego become women have experienced male privilege. Just like you say white woman have experienced white privilege. Do you think it’s fair female athletes are now having to compete in the same category as ‘women’ who have had the benefit of male privilege including male hormones etc that give them larger frame, muscles?
Do you think it’s fair that pre- transition transgender people wake up every morning feeling trapped inside their own bodies? Do you think it’s fair that post – transition transgender people wake up every morning and are inundated with the message that they are not real human beings that deserve rights? Literal buses being driven across the country as we speak, with the sole message of telling these people that they are not human beings? Do you think it’s fair that 30% of transgender youth attempt suicide? Do you think it’s fair that 42% of transgender youth harm themselves? Do you think it’s fair that last year was the deadliest year on record for transgender people, with 27 reported murders and countless others not reported? Or would you rather focus on petty issues like athletics as a guise for the fact that you’re intolerant and hateful? Miss me with that bullshit.
Shambles: I admire you for trying. I can barely be polite about this.
This entire circus is about ONE thing and one thing only. A white woman trying to exploit some crazy idea for her gain. Listen, I don’t doubt that some people feel closer to a race/culture that they weren’t born into/grew up in. But as I said further up in this thread, would you all be so compassionate if she were a person of color suddenly identifying as white? Be real, this is crazy.
This woman is on TV with this sh*t because SHE IS WHITE. And apparently we tolerate a lot of insanity from white women. She can perm the f*ck out of her hair and everyone preaches acceptance but when Beyoncé photoshops her skin to look lighter, she’s offensive. Because she’s black and she better stay black, right?
Goodness – transgender is a recognised condition:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
Identifying as black when you’re white, isn’t.
NOPE.
Who are you replying to in CAPS?!
If you’re replying to me, click on the link and read the frigging article.
Thank you for your hard work Shambles.
I can’t believe the ignorant crapola that has been posted on this thread. It’s like all the folks who’ve been hating the political coverage bc they voted for orange terror have seized their opportunity to pounce.
So gross.
Who says transgender people are not human beings? Of course they are. Just because a man wrongfully believes that he is a woman doesn’t mean he is not human, sheesh.
OH girl, get some help. As a black woman, I find this whole thing insulting, infuriating, and disturbing. She doesn’t realize she is doing more harm than good. What is more disturbing is that she continues to get a platform for this. I can see why she has difficulty finding a job because people think she’s crazy. I would not want this chick within 5 yards of me.
An entire segment of our premier daily news-in-depth show here in the UK, Newsnight, was devoted to a sugary interview with this woman. The BBC flew a UK-based presenter out to conduct it. Unbelievable. They NEVER give space to *actual British black women* to discuss their lives and their proximity to social affairs. Silver lining: the lovely Guilaine Kinouani got 3 minutes for rebuttal during which the same Oxbridge-educated presenter failed to understand the simple concept of privilege. You really couldn’t make it up. Still, that’s 3 minutes Kinouani would never have got otherwise. I suppose we call that a small mercy?
What percentage of women are black in the UK?
At least 3% African, with another 3-4% south Asian. All in all U.K. Is a diverse country…
The UK ain’t that diverse. It’s something clike 87%. There is life outside of London.
I looked this up recently re another article- as per the 2011 census, England & Wales are 82% white (those who identified as white on the census); 4% Muslim but 40% of Muslims live in London.
This is why the right-wingers twist all this bigoted crap, because London is a very diverse city, even from 1 area to another, but this is not the same for the rest of the country.
As Holla says, something like 3% black, plus another 2% or so biracial black/white, plus about 6% Asian. But Newsnight is a London-centric show, as all current affairs shows on British TV tend to be – so we are talking about 13% black, 5% biracial black/white and and 18% Asian, so far as London demographics are concerned. The UK is a place of multicultural cities and very white rural areas.
That’s because Rachel is unique in a facepalm kind of way. Guaranteed views and clicks and comments.
If she publishes her book in a cheap paperback edition, people will buy it just to be baffled.
That being said, I checked the price of her book and I was surprised at the number ob books ABOUT her I found. One written by Stephen King. Probably not THE Stephen King, but it’s funny nonetheless.
Her insulting cosplay shananigans are strangely fascinating, but at the end of the day its like she is trying to earn a living off her non existant black experience as a white woman.
When she decides that she is really a ginger haired Irish man will there be another book out ? I don’t think she has mental health issues, I just think she has taken attention seeking, greed and privilege to the nth degree.
You could land a plane on that forehead of hers.
And that’s all I’m gonna say about her. Because anything else and I’m just wasting my time on this racist piece of trash.
As a fellow five-head sufferer, I weep. But it’s true.
Clear the runway!
You know there is Munchousen syndrome where people convince people they are sick because they have this need for attention? This kind of reminds me of that but that she wanted to be a victim in a social sense and some group to belong to.
that’s what im reminded of too
if she was so black, why was she suing her school for discriminating against her as a white woman at the age of 25?
you can be anyone’s ally without stealing their life experience. and no true ally would do that.
she’s a snake oil salesman
While I do think she’s got serious mental issues, I also think this had to do with the very real & practical process of becoming the head of the NAACP. It would be really hard(but not impossible) to get that job as a white woman so she decided to be black. And what validity would she have now as an academic because she lied all those years? When people know you will lie about anything to get what you want no one is going to trust anything you do. She feels she has to stick to her story to continue her career. People who are Transgender don’t lie about their existence like this.
If you’re suing people at 25 because you’re white that means you identify that way. Being Black isn’t a costume that you put on and take off when it suits you.
She became president of NAACP in 2014. She was pretending to be black before that.She didn’t pretend to be black to get that job.She was already telling the students and faculty at the college she taught at that she was a light skinned black woman while at the same time she wrote White as one of her races for a position on a police commission.
Maybe I wasn’t clear in my post but I know she was pretending to be black before that. In order to become a leader of an organization of that caliber, you have to have a history of community service and leadership. They just don’t hand it to you. So, if she wanted that, she knew she would have to create that history long before she got there. She knew what she was doing personally and professionally and she’s intelligent enough to look towards the future she wanted and plan accordingly. Pretending/assuming to be black fed her mental illness and her career aspirations academic and otherwise. It was a win win for her.
In my opinion, I think part of her “conflict’ was the very real belief that as a white woman, she would not be completely accepted doing what she wanted to do, so she did what she had to do to rationalize her actions. Unfortunately for her, since she built her life on lies, her house of cards fell.
Look in the mirror, YOU ARE NOT BLACK YOU NUT!!!
This post will quickly become a pit for transphobes to justifty themselves. Being transgender is NOT a mental illness.
Being transracial is not a mental illness
You are right because it doesn’t exist but she is a pathological liar and a fraud.
I beg to differ. Read the post below by @BJ. Dolezal has lied all her life. She is either a manipulative f*ck or a very ill person.
Anyhoo, this just stirs sh*t instead of allowing us to discuss real issues of people who really struggle.
Like transgender people. Who biologically have been assigned the wrong sex.
Or a thing.
She’s not transracial – she’s emotionally disturbed.
It’s not defined, but Dissociative disorder order is 😉
Too late. There’s 4-5 people trying it.
I want to f*cking cry, what is this shit?!?
Deep breaths, Shambles. You’re doing a good job of educating. You won’t change everyone’s mind, but if you get even just one person to think, you’ve done your job.
Maybe she was born the wrong skin colour?
Maybe, anything is possible.
The problem here is that her skin colour changed 4 times (white, native American, white, black), which seems a bit, cough, inconsistent. Then there is the problem with biological wonders: her step brother turned into her child at the age 10. Not to mention her black father, who popped up and then disappeared.
Wonder of wonders!
hugs girl. you are doing good.
people won’t always listen right away, we can hope something resonates and they might think and change their minds later.
Clearly these are trolls coming from other places. Don’t get frustrated. They enjoy your frustration.
So. Gross.
What does it mean to identify as a man or a woman?
This person wrote that she was White, Black and Native American on an application for a position with the City of Spokane in 2014.So if you identify as Black why the F are you writing you are White in 2014. This person reported fake hate crimes.This person while claiming she was an oppressed light skin woman attempted to get an assignment to teach a multicultural studies class.She thought she was more qualified to teach it than a Native American man.
She is a liar,her parents and brother say she never drew herself as dark skinned when she was a child.She never lived in Africa in a teepee.She is a thief who plagiarized other artists art and tried to sell it an artwork website without crediting the original artist.
Stop this nonsense of saying she is transracial
Thank you!!
To add, she thought the Native American man was white, when she found out he was Native she wanted to be his best friend and compare struggles. She is a con and the fact that people are trying to defend her and compare her bullshit convenient ($$$) change to transgendered people is disgusting, and yet not surprising.
@OriginallyBlue etc.
Yes.
Transgender is a fact and probably as old as mankind with very different schools of interpretation.
Dolezal´s story can not and should not be mentioned in this very complex subject.
In her teens, her family was more or less Native American (I guess, at least Dolezal was), living in a Montana tepee, hunting their food with bow and arrow.
She needs electro shock therapy…
You really want to go down that road? Because..
Margo was obviously being snarky/sarcastic, but Margo you can’t do that! You’ll excite the transphobes who think transgender people are mentally ill. See, NN.
Actually, Margo S, years ago, I had electro shock therapy (ECT.) I find your flippant use of it as a “remedy” for a woman deemed insane/manipulative/deceitful quite offensive. People with mental disorders are human, too, and no more fond of being ignorantly mocked and stigmatized than anyone else.
Ugh…girl go away!
A friend once told me she knew a girl in college who was Asian but insisted that she was/identified as white, and how weird everyone thought it was. I remembered it when all this Dozazel stuff started making news, and I wonder if there are actually a lot of people like this? I don’t pretend to be knowledgeable about the subject, but if there are a bunch of people who feel this way then it might be a legit phenomenon, not just this one lady who wants attention. I’m not trying to weigh in on whether people who feel this way are equivalent to trans people, or anything like that – I’m just curious if anyone else has heard about people feeling this way? Or if it’s just Dozazel and this one girl my friend knew.
Some people are chronic liars and some live in lala land.
I once worked with a woman who had between 2 to 12 children. I never figured the real number of her kids.
On this woman alone I am writing about and will not answer to any trolls asking how she is different from a transgender person. This woman is not new to the scene, some of us remember when she tried to pull this crap a couple of years ago and got CAUGHT! Her own family came with receipts as did the investigative reporter. She’s a blonde, white woman (much like myself except I’m actually Hispanic) that lies and uses her so called “blackness” to screw the system and the very people she says she identifies with. If she can claim she’s white and sue for something she does, if she can claim she’s black and take advantage of that she does. She lies, lies, lies. She’s been caught claiming work of others as her own. She’s been charged with fraud. She sues on baseless claims. She falsifies police reports to report false hate crimes. She made false horrible claims against her own true family. A quote about her: She is the most spectacular example of the growing phenomenon of people posing as victims.
In 2015 she was caught in her lie and immediately ended the interview. That’s not an innocent person. That’s a liar that’s been caught. And there are victims of her lies. All those people she has sued, her family, the people she has lied to, people she has defrauded, the list goes on. Don’t even get me started on the mental and emotional damage she is doing to her poor children. SMH.
So please do some research on this woman before you go applying sympathy on a person that doesn’t deserve it.
Yes she strikes me as a top predator amongst lying chancers. She is stealing a living off other peoples sweat, and her actions hurt people, real people in the real world.
How this thread got hijacked into a Trans hate thread I don’t know.
I have no clue either. It makes me feel better to think it’s trolls that hijack the thread. They are trying to act not as outright trolling though. Like they really want to learn and be schooled and then slowly drive you insane.
Like on the show Homeland (SPOILER ALERT) they are all hired by the evil government and their all hipsters with fake online names sitting in a huge room on multiple laptops posting misinformation and trolling everywhere. It’s so scary.
She should apply for a job with Orangino. I hear there are a lot of openings for liars.
I’m really curious about her psychic landscape – not the one she’s promoting, but the one that is at the bottom of her actions which she clearly has never questioned or confronted. I find the “social construct” argument on race curious, too, because it’s quite clear that race has some biological basis or science wouldn’t be able to determine race from a hair, drop of saliva, blood, etc. It’s the base sociological uses to which those minor biological realities have been put that are false.
Meanwhile, somewhere inside this poster is someone who identifies as rich but is still struggling with a socially imposed identity as economically lower middle-class . . . .
Oh my god people, please stop. I do not understand why so many of you are performing mental back flips trying to justify/be understanding of this woman. It’s insulting and really frustrating. Race and gender issues are not the same thing, that is a false equivalence that does neither issue any justice.
why do anti trans people jump all over this to justify themselves? i dont see any similarity. what am i missing?
the Homophobic bone and the suspension of reality?
LOL! sad but true
Nailed it QQ.
Boom. There you have it.
Why is it considered homophobic to question the idea that men who conform to “female” gender roles are actually biological women, and vice versa? Why is it homophobic to question socially constructed gender roles?
Might not be homophobic, per se, but it is lame. If people didn’t question social constructs, including gender roles, we’d still be gatherin’ those berries and committing infanticide on the regular. Change is natural.
do people who transition pretend they were never the previous gender? do they lie when confronted with evidence that they used to live differently? all while they make money off if it?
Gender and race are both social constructs but that doesn’t mean there is a universal equivalency between them so that direct parallels can be drawn from one to the other in every instance.
She’s a liar and a fraudster so it actually doesn’t apply to this woman at all.
Guys she’s a CON ARTIST, not a victim. I’m not convinced that she’s mentally ill..maybe just manipulative af and evil.
I can’t tell if it’s extreme mental gymnastics because she honestly is this invested, or just regular run of the mill, if i was black i’d get all the stuff idiocy.
I’m seeing extreme mental gymnastics up in this comment thread. I legit don’t understand why so many people are trying to understand/defend her instead of writing her off. Of course there’s a nuanced way to speak about race issues, but that type of discourse isn’t going to happen when people compare it to gender identity issues.
“I legit don’t understand why so many people are trying to understand/defend her instead of writing her off.”
Good old fashioned white privilege, how’s that for irony?!
i have zero idea why transgendered people are being brought into this conversation and it’s disheartening to the extreme.
i don’t even want to engage and usually i’m kind of salty and ready to sow the fields. I recognize there are different levels of investment in social justice, and different levels of knowledge, but a lot of this doesn’t sound like curiousity/learning. it sounds like a chance to ‘other’ with abandon.
@detritus- Yes and normally I wouldn’t mind earnest questions and/or an open discussion but as others have said, the transgendered argument LITERALLY comes up every single time we have a post of this woman. I see that some are getting mad because they feel dismissed/shut down but how would they feel if they were a black woman being forced to entertain this shit? It’s insulting.
It’s also very cruel to compare Rachel’s act to what transgendered people go through.
I agree Kitten. Just a bad person. If it’s anything mental it’s then only because she reminds me of relatives that are narcisstic and show sociopathic traits. Once you realize it, it’s like they have a big neon sign above their head that reads “TOXIC PERSON! STAY AWAY FROM ME!”
She does strike me as toxic.
She’s the white dude complaining about affirmative action keeping them down. Except instead of pretending to take an ethnic sounding name, she actually did. And then doubled down instead of addressing the cognitive dissonance.
She wants to take advantage of the social structures, the barest minimum ones, that are put in place to protect black folk, but had the benefit of growing up white. She actually thinks she speaks on this cause better than a black person. How can you be part of a cause for equality, when you can’t address your own privilege? How can you be speaking for freedom when you are silencing black voices by your own inclusion?
i worry sometimes speaking on issues like this, that by speaking out I am silencing voice of colour on an issue where they are necessary, or dominating a discussion where my voice is already over represented. i would hope most white allies have that thought. For Dolezal it hasn’t even crossed her mind.
John Howard Griffin? who’s that?
This post and the United Airlines post from yesterday are going to make me pull my hair out and scream. GOOGLE RACHEL DOLEZAL CRIMES! Read up on something before you start going off on a tangent about something that is totally unrelated!!!
White entitlement is so detached from reality it should be in the DSM5!
I think this woman is despicable.
^^^ I’m dead. 😂😂
I am curious do any of the people who are asking others ( who have explained this MULTIPLE times) for calm dialogue dismissing all the evidence of Rachael’s bull? The fact that this woman has a continued platform for her foolishness speaks to her whiteness. People bending over backwards to “understand” her, patronizing and dismissing actual lack women’s comments, is beyond infuriating. And we do get to be furious and express that.
See my response above to no. 23. If anyone is watching this season of Homeland SPOILER ALERT (it’s really good this season) they show a huge room of people hired by the government (all look like young hipsters) to sit on multiple laptops and act like real users/posters and sometimes trolls and post misinformation. That’s their job. It’s horrifying.
Ive seen light skinned black people who hesitate to acknowledge African ancestry, it was quite surprising to see a white person, identify as black.
With all the important things going on in the world, why is Savanah Guthrie interviewing this person? I think for ratings, of course, but I also get the sneaking feeling that racist media moguls are using her to stoke up arguments and conflicts. Dolezal is obviously benefitting financially by making these false claims. She is not truly newsworthy. There has to be another agenda behind giving her such expensive airtime.
What a famewhore.
This.
I’m confused. I understand the whole “white privilege” argument, but at the same time…
SO MANY PEOPLE try to make themselves whiter. Coloured contact lenses, bleaching creams for the skin, peroxide to make hair lighter, treatments to make the hair straighter.
This is a woman who likes the way black looks, grew up thinking black is beautiful and expresses herself this way. She wants to look this way and feel this way because she LOVES IT. To be bitchy though, she still talks like a typical white woman. She needs a nicer, less nasal voice to pull this off 100%.
You’re a f king idiot.
Your opinion means a lot to me.
@Brooke,
tanning bed and showers, tanning creams, perms, weaves, black eyebrows and lashes, coloured contact lenses are signs that white women try to make themselves look darker or exotical? Never heard of this accusation.
Yet, black women doing the same in reverse are blamed for making themselves whiter?
Wow…just wow!
That does not make sense. So if I as a white person with straight hair, get a perm, am i trying to be black? Or if i get a spray tan? Maybe they just want to change up their look, like white women do. Maybe they feel straight hair is more accepted, idk? Or maybe they just want to try a different style? My husband is mixed, he says his skin tone has gotten him a lot of privilege ahead of darker skinned POC. I doubt any black person is trying to bleach their skin to a white color, they are prob trying to get to what they perceive as a more attractive color. I spray tan because i think i look better with a tan. It’s not trying to be white. Omg. I better not but those brown contacts, people might think I’m trying to black. Morons that is. *rolls eyes* sorry, i know I’m being mean, but how can you come to that conclusion when white people change their looks all the time? Does not make any sense
I have clearly offended&confounded without meaning to. It could be based partly on ignorance due to not living in the US. Where I live in Latin America, a lot of people try hard to look “whiter” and even white people themselves try to make themselves as white as possible by bleaching their hair and wearing coloured contacts to get blue/green eyes when their eyes are brown. A lot of cultures have the skewed idea that “lighter is better”. Not white per se, but a lighter version of their own. For lack of a better word, I find her “refreshing”. In my opinion/life experience it is refreshing to see a woman who recognizes the beauty of black and who aspires to it. After reading more about her modus operandi, I see that this woman clearly has mental health issues and possibly suffers from a form of narcissism, but is her biggest crime wanting to look black because she finds it beautiful and feels/identifies as black? I get that the appropriation is offensive. She says it was since childhood. It’s not okay that she tries to play the victim or that she is getting so much attention. But is she really that evil for looking the way and being the way she wants to be? I think she has that right. I don’t think she should be getting this much attention but I believe wholeheartedly that she should be accepted for who she wants to be.
Oh, ok, that makes more sense to me why you thought that way then. Sorry for snapping.
Okay, so what if Rachel really sick for a month. Too sick to care for herself, definitely too sick to rub on all that self tanner. What a shock for her children to think that the flu can turn their mama white! Because it’s a choice for her. This woman is a grifter and bullshit artist. That first paragraph of her remarks makes my eyes roll so far back I can see my own ass. So she can go on with her “faux black” self. I just hope that she doesn’t take away any more jobs from actual black women.
I have one question and one comment on this woman.
First, this one desperately wishes the surgery in Get Out was a real thing,
Second, has she actually seen that movie? It may give her some insight into why people don’t approve of this appropriation
This isn’t about race or social constructs – it’s about a woman making a career out of being a troubled narcissist and the media business greasing her way with money. It’s a modern freak show.
You all are way smarter, way more compassionate and reading way more into this than is here.
LOL, its not just gonna be American black twitter gunning for her now. All sections of black twitter from all over the world are coming for her. I can’t wait! #AskRachel was one of the best hash tags
I see she laid off the bronzer. She actually looks like a white woman with a bad perm here. Let’s be honest, she changed her name because no one will hire her with her real name.
And she’s changed it to a name that people will associate with being black and she’ll continue the grift.
Great lead sentence, Kaiser! I do so enjoy your writing!
This woman is clearly sick. If there is ever a discussion of transracial identity, she should not be the poster child. As a WOC (mixed race, obviously not white, but ethnically ambiguous) I’m not yet sure how I feel about this. I’m still thinking about it. I’ve experienced so much racial gatekeeping in my life that I hesitate to label others.
Thank you. Not only should she not be the poster child, she should not even be involved in the discussion. Her motivation, past history and possible psychiatric problems are too questionable.
National Geographic?
Reminds me of a tennis commntor that said the only magazine Serena and Venus should cover is National Geographic…
I wish people would realize that there are people out there who can consider something to be a mental disorder, but that doesn’t mean that they are automatically non-compassionate fundies who want to send everyone to “pray” all their problems away at Jesus camps.
I don’t understand why she has the media platform she has.
Help me, someone, to understand why she is generating this amount of attention?
Unfortunately….$$$
I. JUST. CAN’T. With any of this today. This woman deliberately LIED about her race to get ahead in employment. She put on blackface to get advantages in colleges, jobs, etc., knowing that her disguise would allow her to do so. This is NOT about her identifying with black people. This is about her being a CON ARTIST. Who got CAUGHT.
I’m very curious if people will buy her book and if it will sell. Seems like she has expressed her reasons for doing what she did and does already so what would I be curious about enough to buy her book? Something nice, considering she doesn’t have that pretty a face to work with and she has questionable taste and judgement I am impressed with her tasteful eyebrows and styling not gorgeous but not a train wreck
So basically no one was buying what she was selling before, she disappeared, regrouped and came up with this ‘trans-ethnicity’ nonsense to cover up the fact she’s a grifter in ‘black face’? And people are buying it? Well I’ll give her this, she’s committed and she’s clearly bamboozled a whole new audience.
The black experience is combined of physical DNA, racial identity and cultural of a specific ethinicity. None of that Rachel has even racial identity (only black not AA wtf?). The male/female experience is combined of physical DNA, gender identity and sexual orientation. The only thing a transgendered doesn’t have is DNA. Rachel wants to fulfill a vague fantasy of being black while a transgendered person needs and wants are specific. Rachel is playing a drag act without the real experience but a drag queen would never claim same experience as a trans person or the trans person as a female. She is claiming an experience born out of thin air and a trans person is living their own experience (as a person feels being born in the wrong sex). In short, there is no comprison between being transgendered and “transracial”.
You have tact! It is appreciated.
There are not enough eye roll emojis in existence for this woman… 🙄🙄🙄
Just because she WANTS to be black doesn’t make her black. She has a career and gotten several advantages out of saying she was black which is a clear lie. If she has changed her name what will she do with all her degrees etc which would be in her old name. Over here in Oz you can’t just say I’m part Aborigine which does get you some advantages. You have to be able to prove you are and be accepted by the Aborigine community. There are plenty of blonde haired blue eyed Aborigines over here. It isn’t the case with her she was born in a white family she has lied. Transgender is different you know you are a woman or man inside and you go through years of injections, and mental therapy so make sure it is what they want and operations it’s very costly. She just woke up one morning decided she was black and ticked boxes saying she was so it’s hardly the same as transgenders.
Dolezal has histrionic personality disorder. Don’t feed it. Cut her access to attention gratifying platforms and encourage her seek professional help.
So she can just claim to identify as black and then reap in all the advantages of social engineering directed to african americans and other non-white groups?
Let’s hope that there won’t be too many followers who come up with the same trick and do suddenly “identify” as black in order to get into college with low SATC marks.
It’s obvious that she is a disturbed person, just from her background, her actions, and how she talks/writes. Functional, but disturbed. She really shouldn’t be taken seriously as meaning anything about something bigger than her own sad self.
Just let her blather on while you smile kindly and slowly walk away, pleading an urgent matter at home. Like my mother, I seem to be a magnet for such functional but disturbed types (even strangers in the grocery store zero in on me) and know what I’m talking about. I once claimed that I had to relieve the babysitter, which was true. I just didn’t mention that the baby was a ten week old kitten and the sitter was a 12 year old cat.
Just be thankful that she isn’t your neighbor or coworker.