Well, I know what royal stories we’re going to be discussing for the next few weeks. There’s a new, unauthorized biography of Prince Charles called Rebel Prince: The Power, Passion and Defiance of Prince Charles. It was written by Tom Bower, an investigative journalist with a passion for royal gossip, as it turns out. You can tell that this book truly is unauthorized because it does not feature any of the conveniently re-written storylines involving Princess Diana’s life. No, it seems Bower spoke to everyone who had ever been around Charles at a dinner party or anyone who had ever worked for a palace and they all spilled their guts to him. The Daily Mail had a lengthy story about just how profoundly odd Charles’ life is and how self-pitying he is – go here to read. But People Mag had some juicier excerpts, including Charles’ jealousy of William’s relationship with the Middleton family and Charles’ general jealousy that William and Kate get so much attention.
Did Prince William call upon his grandmother Queen Elizabeth II for help smoothing things over between his father Prince Charles and his parents-in-law, Michael and Carole Middleton? That’s what Tom Bower says in his new unauthorized biography of the Prince of Wales, Rebel Prince: The Power, Passion and Defiance of Prince Charles — pages of which were excerpted in The Daily Mail on Saturday.
The British investigative journalist claims that Prince Charles’ felt “usurped” by the Middletons and “isolated” from grandchildren Prince George, 4, and Princess Charlotte, 2, with William and wife Kate Middleton choosing to spend Christmas with her parents rather than with the other royals and setting up their home base miles away from Highgrove (Charles’ residence) to Norfolk “where they could preserve their privacy.”
Bower claims that several of the Queen’s courtiers allegedly “decided to ignore Carole Middleton on social occasions” after picking up on Charles’ alleged fears of being overshadowed. William became “infuriated” and “consulted with his grandmother,” Bower claims. The Queen countered “the hurtful snubs against Carole” with an invitation to drive her around the Balmoral estate — and allegedly inviting a TV cameraman to film their outing, according to Bower.
Meanwhile, Charles attempted to bond with Kate by inviting her to her first opera in the Royal Box at Covent Garden. The night out was a bust — Charles’ hope to convert Kate to classical music lost because the production of Bellini’s La Sonnambula (The Sleepwalker) was “awful,” Bower claims.
Such instances led Charles to worry that the media attention was switching to William and Kate. “Charles saw Kate and William as the new stars and feared he’d be in trouble,” Robert Higdon, the chief executive of Charles’ charity foundation in America, told Bower. The prince was even disappointed his son and daughter-in-law were invited by the Canadian government to tour the country in September 2016 before he was, Bower claims.
According to Bower, Charles’ connection to his sons William and Prince Harry had been strained during his divorce from Princess Diana, with Charles allegedly believing “Diana had poisoned the boys’ minds towards their father.” After her death in 1997, “the brothers had to cope with a continuing onslaught of public revelations about their parents’ adulterous relationships,” Bower writes. Charles’ eventual marriage to his mistress, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, didn’t help — her presence “a constant reminder of their mother’s torment.” The brothers would even enter Clarence House “through the servants’ quarters, in order to avoid both their father and Camilla,” Bower claims.
While Charles may have worried about William and Kate “taking the limelight,” Camilla was “unconcerned.”
“She didn’t give a damn,” Higdon told Bower. She also allegedly “dismissed the presumption that Kate would be the first commoner Queen,” saying with a laugh, “That’ll be me.”
The reason this is noteworthy, I suppose, is that we’ve already heard versions of this several times over the past five years or so. William and Kate really don’t allow George and Charlotte to spend much time at all with Charles, and Charles is hurt – perhaps justifiably? – by William’s constant need to spend so much more time with the Middletons than Charles. I’m not sure if I believe that Charles is jealous of the attention William and Kate get. My guess is that his emotion is more “mystified.” As in, he still doesn’t understand that pretty, young princesses/duchesses are always going to be more interesting to the press than dull princes.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Charles has always seemed like an uptight bore, and I know a lot of people have residual dislike for Camila due to Diana (I’m one of them, I can’t help it). whole Kate and William aren’t exactly as popular as Harry and Meghan, they’re definitely more popular than Charles and Camila. which I kind of feel he’s brought upon himself.
Camilla bugs and not just the Diana stuff. She’s self-serving and plays the long game. I just don’t see where she has any integrity but yes, the side piece will be queen.
She is Charles’ wife and so the spouse becomes queen. Are we judging her past behaviour? Because no one forced Charles to have that affair so why is she the bigger disgrace ?
Camilla was also married with kids during that affair. In fact her entire inner circle appears to have known since some of the shagging was conducted at various friends houses. At one point Diana face to face asked her to stop sleeping with her husband, her response was something like “be content with the fame and stop working for a real marriage”. Camilla is just as big a villain as Charles, if not more. What sociopath is that indifferent to pleas from the lovers distressed wife made to her face?
Listen, I’m a huge Diana fan and a once upon a time big Camilla hater. But Diana has been gone 20 years, no amount of hating on Camilla or calling her names will bring Diana back. As a commoner who needs to work every day and earn my daily bread, I choose to leave the past in the past and move on, life is too short to spend it hating on Camilla a woman I have never even met. And IMVHO, Camilla has “done her time” so to speak, time to let the woman off the hook, live and let live. I loved Diana to pieces but I’m not blind to her past misdeeds too. If anything, both Diana and Charles cheated on each other and none of them is without sin. So, I choose to “forgive” Camilla and just live my life with no hate.
On the book and all the spills, IMVHO, there are some things that seem to come right from the Middleton household so, that alone puts me off the entire book. I hated it when Charles people constantly threw Harry under the bus to make William look good, I hate it equally as much when William’s folks throw his father under the bus to make William look good. I’m just waiting for the day WILLIAM will get thrown under the bus to make someone else (George?) look good!!! As they say, what goes around comes back full circle. Karma can be a B word.
Ok…..just finished reading the article on the daily fail linked above…
For the love of god somebody please tell me the book is satire………Please…..
There’s no way he can really be the simpering, massively over-indulged wreck they’re describing….
Bella Dupont: He was raised by his Edwardian grandmother, mentored by a coterie of people best described as Edwardians eg Uncle Dickie who encouraged Edwardian indulgences. His lifestyle reflects that Edwardian upbringing combined with being raised as an indulged heir.
@ Lak
That article was so pathetic it brought tears to my eyes.
Chr*st.
Bella Dupont: Most of it’s contents, if not all of it, have been public knowledge since the 80s. Every few years, a book or article discusses his habits.
Which is why the fact that WK have started outstripping him on the cost of their tours truly shocks me because Charles is very extravagant and self-indulgent to the amusement of his family, and WK must be super extravagant to out do him.
As for the fact that he doesn’t get on with the Middletons including Bill and Cathy and that the kids are the pawns, anyone paying attention in the past 7yrs could see that as clear as day. Therefore nothing new in this book except to say that it makes the gossip official instead of royalwatchers saying discussing it ad nauseum on royal forums.
LAK, totally agree with you on the Edwardian mindset: marriage for position, property and heirs, affairs for love, companionship and fun. Camilla seems to have this attitude as well, but Diana, as someone younger and more modern mindset definitely did not. I think the whole situation was an awful misunderstanding of the customary way to behave in a modern marriage, and family. It makes perfect sense that William prefers the modern Middletons, as it makes perfect sense that Charles is hurt and baffled by his sons’ and the public’s rejection of him. Charles’ personal behavior has been out of date for 100 years, and that’s a big generation gap. It’s resulted in a tragedy of errors where everyone is both the wronged one and the one doing wrong, and they all are too proud and/or stubborn to move an inch from their moral (in their own minds) high ground.
Camilla doesn’t have any integrity. Good call. Succinct and correct.
Side piece 🙂
Charles problem is his insecurity. Even his pet Penny Junor is unable to disguise this flaw. In her book about Camilla she wrote that when he heard that Diana was dead, Prince Charles instant concern was that he would be blamed for it. Of all the things, his mind went to public opinion. That tallies with something almost all royal writers note, that he was deeply jealous of the attention Diana got too. He would be jealous of the younger royals.
I think it comes from being raised believing that he is a snowflake with a divine destiny on the throne and then having to wait out an extremely popular monarch while followed by a son who is also more popular than him. Lol. If this was 500 years ago, the Princes may have have ended up in the tower and the Queen conveniently dispatched with a botanic potion. Insecurity is a dangerous thing in people with power.
His insecurity will never go away (probably) because it’s too deep seated and started nearly 7 decades ago.
Charles is always called dull and he does comes off that way in the media, but having seen him, he is very good at public outings. Imo. I saw William and Kate in person recently, neither live up to the hype. Both were rather dull, absolutely very little if any charisma.
Kate’s conversational skills on the outing were AWFUL. William seemed like the nicer, more interesting one of the couple, he was more interested in people at the event, whereas Kate seemed so uninterested in the public. She just seemed so uninterested in people. I was really shocked at the difference between the public relations image they are given and the actual in person personalities of Kate and William.
Kate for all the accolades she gets as a supposed beauty , she’s so plain and sort of hard looking, with tons of makeup to seem to try to hide skin issues. Even the the hair was fried overworked spongey. She reminds me more of her mother Carole in person.
William seemed nicer, but not much charisma and definately certain Windsor genes have taken over his look.
I think this is all a matter of personal preference. I certainly dont find Charles endearing in any way but some people do. I’ve even seen some declare him sexy.
What is fact is that the vast majority of people only refer back to the royal family at special occassions and almost all of those find William and Harry charismatic and charming. It is also fact that same group find Charles cold and standoffish because he is always recalled besides the memory of Diana hugging an Angolan amputee victim or an Aids sufferer. This is just the way it is and Charles at almost 70 should have made his peace with this honestly
About how tall is she? Thanks.
Lavin I agree with you, having met Prince Charles twice I have to say he surprised me by how nice and warm he was with us ” lowly commoners”.
There is nothing dull about Charles and IMO he was the only man Diana really loved.
I too have met both couples in public (Chuck and Cam and W&K) and agree with your comments about W&K. He is far more engaged with the event and people than she is even if he doesn’t read his briefing notes. She just floats around not knowing how to talk or engage with people. And yes the heavy makeup hides very bad skin – it dry and leathery looking (long term smokers, sun and diet damage).
Chuck and Cams were great – Chuck is very engaged with people and very knowledgable. Cams is shyer but she has a great sense of humour and does her best to put you at ease.
Also met the DoE, who is exactly as you expect. A charming, grumpy old goat with a sharp wit.
Digital Unicorn
Your description of Phil tells me everything I need to know. He is an entitled, racist, crude xenophobe living on other people’s moneY. People will make excuses for anything.
I have heard the same from people who met W and K in New York and other places. I have never met them. But it was said William is friendly, but she wasn’t. My parents have met Charles and said he is likable and has a dry sense of humor. He is also curious and charming and livelier than he appears.
The only negative thing anyone I know has said about a member of the BRF is about Andrew being dull, unimpressive and haughty or Fergie being somewhat graspy.
It is hard to compete with a ghost that has been put on a pedestal and whose memory is wrapped up in myths. Diana had great qualities but she was also manipulative and emotionally unstable. But it is ignored.
@masamf……For heaven’s sake Diana was only 19! Charles and Camilla were veterans in the game of adultery.
Joan Rivers said that Charles was super funny and i believe her.
Charles is a whiny baby
5′ 8″
I disagree and I think he gets a rough run. Is he an odd bird? Undoubtedly. His mother was very distant when he was a child because she had just taken over the huge responsibility of being Queen. His father was extremely hard on him. He was raised in a very odd way by an assortment of people many of whom were probably trying to fill the gaps and make up for the poor parenting. I don’t doubt he has insecurities – a shy boy thrust into the spotlight all of his life, constantly made to feel inadequate by his father, loved less than his siblings by his parents, outshone by his wife and then his children… of course he is insecure.
The thing is, Charles works his arse off. He also has championed many causes that people rolled their eyes at for many years and labelled him eccentric for championing but that we now see as important such as preserving the environment, living sustainably, preserving important architecture, etc. The Prince’s Trust also does great work in a number of areas.
Additionally I believe Charles is reasonably intelligent.
Was he a great parent? Probably not. I mean, what kind of parenting role models did he have? I imagine the boys got most of their warmth, comfort and support from their mother. I imagine she also leaned on them more than she probably should have during and after the divorce. This has likely soured their relationship with their father. Along with the fact that Charles was a bit nasty at times during the divorce – like doggedly insisting on stripping her HRH title from her – and of course during the marriage as well which wouldn’t have made a positive impression on his sons. I do believe he tried his best to step up after her death though.
Was Diana a great parent? I believe she was warm, loving, caring, lovely and wonderful in many ways and her sons obviously remember her for this but she was clearly also unstable, depressed, occasionally vindictive (towards their father), etc. There may have been a bit of parental alienation in there too. None of that negative stuff can have been good for them. And then to lose her like they did… She was an amazing lady but far from perfect and I think people need to acknowledge that. She had definite character flaws and problems, she also wasn’t particularly well-educated or intelligent (I’ve heard from multiple people who dined with, met or knew her); but she made up for that in blinding charisma and emotional intelligence, warmth and a real caring nature. We need to look at the person as a whole – not the myth.
Charles and Diana were horrible unsuited and it was a bad match. They both did horrible things to each other and he was undoubtedly more powerful than she in many ways, although she fully wielded the power of the press and her popularity against him. His reputation has never recovered whilst in death Diana has been deified.
I’m sure it bothers him that he can never seem to overcome this bad press, no matter how hard he works and how many good works he does. Meanwhile his son and his wife are pretty lazy and yet mostly get public support and are more popular.
I’m sure it also bothers him that William prefers the Middletons although really it is not surprising at all. That would bother most people. He just doesn’t seem to know how to be normal and so can never produce what it is that William craves.
In any case, I think he is an interesting guy. He is flawed and has some issues, but I think he works hard and on good causes and that is important and should be focused on. I also think people need to let their slut-shaming of Camilla go. She is a smart, funny woman who works hard and on really good causes like sexual violence. No she is not Diana. Yes she cheated with Charles on Diana (as did a number of other women) just as Diana cheated on Charles and Camilla’s husband cheated on her. None of them covered themselves in glory in that period. Let’s move on.
Agree with everything you said
It’s not slut shaming. She was complicit in gaslighting Diana, was complicit in Charles using Diana, on and on. That’s full on abuse. Camilla will always be an abusive, callous person to me. Ultimately she cost those boys their mother.
I was around for all of this stuff (I even got up super early to watch Charles and Diana’s wedding). At the time of the revelations about Camilla, I was so angry, and hated her so. I LOVED Diana. I mean, I still do. I know she had problems, but the BRF came out pretty badly in all of that, too.
Anyway, over time, my feelings have changed. When Charles first started seeing Camilla, long before Diana, he was so wishy washy about things, that she finally got married to someone else. Then of course there was the pressure put on him by the BRF (mainly the Queen) to marry a young virgin. So he finally settled (in his mind) for Diana, but he never stopped loving Camilla.
In the end, I blame the culture of the BRF, a little bit the Queen, and Charles himself. He should have married Camilla to begin with. Camilla does get some blame for having an affair with Charles AFTER he married Diana (and actually while they were engaged), but that’s the extent of her moral failing.
The rest of it was on the BRF and Charles.
I think William’s coldness towards Charles is also justified. From everything we have read, it was William who saw how much distress Diana was in and had to comfort her. He was the one that saw the fall out of his parent’s marriage more than Harry did, so it isn’t a surprise that he has some resentment. And then to add insult to injury Charles was oblivious to pain Camilla presence and inclusion into the family caused both Princes.
Also, I’m loving that the Queen went all Team Middleton on Charles lol. If even 20% of what is written in the book is true then Charles is an absolute nightmare of a person.
Rumor has it that the queen thinks Ma Middleton is a stand up gal and the fact that Camilla hates her is icing on the cake. The queen does not like Camilla and only tolerates her to keep the peace. Also it’s true that Liz and Sophie get along like a house on fire. She thinks she is raising Louise and James the way Charles and Diana should have raised their kids. Sophie gets along with everyone but Camilla makes snide comments behind her back. Sophie knows but doesn’t care. She’s pretty classy and works extremely hard. The courtiers love her as well. They tolerate Camilla because she’s good for Charles who doesn’t have as many tantrums these days when she’s around. They all hate when she’s not in residence.
The Queen hates Camilla so much that she gave her a personal order that she has yet to give to Kate. I see that Carole has visited the site today.
Nic919
Lol don’t even try it. I’m no sugar and personally I don’t like this trend of calling people trolls etc when you don’t like what they say. Camilla is the second ranked royal in the land and is hardworking to boot. The queen respects that and what it means to the firm. She doesn’t care for Camilla much personally. This is what I’ve heard.
Sure…… the Queen thinks Carole (who seems to want to wipe away every facet of her common coal miner roots with new signet rings , new family crests and pushing on PW for any Royal invitation she can grub ..is standup . Lol lol lol
ROTFL, I can’t stop laughing on that one.
Lavin
Who knows if it’s true or not but you apparently don’t know the queen’s private personality. She’s pretty down to earth, enjoys people who are direct and has a good sense of humor. Liz is not stuffy.
Shotcaller, do you actually know these people? Because the way you talk it’s like you personally know them. If not then it’s all total rumors.
llamas
Rumors on a gossip site. Shocking.
*shrug*
I stated that I heard this from people who claim to be insiders. We won’t know the truth for years to come.
@Shotcaller what is a ‘stand up gal’ please?
PrincessK
Interesting, bold, easy to talk to/get along with.
When you go on a site and post like you know the Queen’s thoughts on Camilla that is awfully close to trolling. No one can really know and as it stands the Queen appear to be friendly to her in public and has given her personal orders. Something she hasn’t done for Kate yet.
Nic919
I don’t owe you any explanations. Thanks anyway.
SHOTCALLER, you should know that on this site you’re only allowed to post about rumours if your posts say something like:
Rumour has it every morning Meghan goes and donates 4 litres of blood to starving orphans. Then, she has 12 inches of hair cut off to make wigs for kids with cancer – she can do that because her hair grows a full foot per day, unless her jealous sister-in-law-to-be. Then, she adopts six dogs a day- EVERYDAY – and rehouses them with Syrian refugees, who she has also literally rehoused – by building them each a house, by hand, alone. Then, she has tea with the Queen, who loves her so much, they’re always wearing their BFF necklaces.
SOME people don’t believe this but they’re all racists.
But at the same time, it sort of bugs me that she is Team Middleton. Why wasn’t she ever Team Diana?
Maybe she has learnt from the mistakes of how the family treated Diana?. Including the Middletons in various events over the years makes me think this.
By the time the queen realized what a shit storm Diana truly was it was too late to put the genie back in the bottle. But during the marriage the queen did not dislike or actively sabotage Diana.phil couldn’t stand her.
The Queen isn’t Team Middleton. Carole got invited once to Balmoral and they made sure a camera was there. Meanwhile Sophie’s dad has a standing invite to the Sandringham Christmas that the Middletons have yet to receive.
There are many in laws that have visited Balmoral at least once in their life times but they don’t all have a daily mail photographer ready to capture the moment.
@Nic919
I’m sure the BRF have an agreement with the press not to take intrusive pictures of them at Balmoral and other places like Sandringham. If a picture is released to the press the “ok” must have been given by the Queen or her courtiers or lawyers.
The queen was naive when it came to Diana. She just turned the blind eye. I hope this is true, cos Charles seems like a child and Camilla seems like an enabler to his behavior.
Wills mother figure isn’t Camilla, it is ma Middleton.
” the queen did not dislike or actively sabotage Diana.phil couldn’t stand her.”
Actually they both tried really hard to keep the couple together. Philip’s letters to Diana are really kind and loving.
Isn’t Sophie’s dad a widower with no other family? If I recall correctly, he is a VERY rare exception when it comes to Sandringham Christmas.
@Irene Phil actually wrote to Diana and was nice to her. This according to Diana in one of her documentaries.
I can’t believe Diana used to almost brag about how William would comfort and support her when she was a grown woman talking about a little boy who should never have been involved . It’s mind-blowing. Both Charles and Diana were ridiculous.
The Middletons are beyond loyal to each other. We’ve heard rumors of trouble between the parents but they present a united front in public. Also William will generally come first with that family.
The Middletons are loyal in their desire to use William for their climb, it took real group effort on their part, Kate alone wasn’t enough to close that deal. Carole saw to the ego and emotional side of things, while Kate saw to other aspects. IMO the Middletons are just a bunch of grifters. I think even their supposed wealth is a facade.
No where does it say The Queen is for Carole, it says cameras were basically called in for show.
IMO the Queen does like sCamilla having known her since her twenties and her ex husband worked for the Queen for decades. The Queen was not happy with the breakdown of the marriages and the scandals of course, but she has known Camilla for ages.
This. It wasn’t like he just saw her sad or indisposed; she leaned on him. That’s unacceptable considering she could have found a legitimate therapist who would have been bound by Britain’s version of HIPAA and who may have actually helped her.
To add: I’m totally a Diana stan. She had an emotional intelligence that I completely lack and can only admire in people and she had charisma pouring out of her, but she had her bad points too.
Betsy–yes. And I also had immense sympathy for Diana, but I could never put my children in that position. That’s why I said below that it’s understandable that William would grow attached to the Middletons; they gave him something he needed.
@ Apple Hat – brilliant! Made me LOL 😉
They both have Mommy & Daddy issues that they need to work on.
They all should but they won’t. All that dysfunction is baked into the cake by now.
That’s a lot of nonsense alone in the Camilla statement because the first commoner who became queen consort in the last century was the queen mum. If one writes a book, one should get basic factchecking right. Plus I am honestly not quite sure about Anne Boleyn, and Richard II?
Richard II married two princesses. Anne Boleyn was a Howard through her mother and her father was the Earl of Ormonde. She was NO commoner whatsoever. Not even a little.
I can’t find the side where I stumbled over Richard II, totally my bad, I must have misread something. But Anne still confuses me, because I thougt being the daughter of an earl and a countess makes her “just” aristo ??
Anne Boleyn was indeed a commoner until Henry made her Marquess of Pembroke in her own right shortly before they married. Not sure when her father was awarded the contested title of Earl of Ormonde. In Britain, the titleholders are aristocrats — their family members, who bear titles by courtesy only, are not. Thus, The Queen Mother, born Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, was a commoner, as was Diana.
The title of this book is hilarious, IMO.
Thank you 🙂
Alix–yes, Rebel Prince? “Power, passion and defiance?” I’m dying.
Anne didn’t hold a peerage title, nor was she a sovereign, so yes she was a commoner. In the UK, there the Sovereign, peers, and commoners. So in order to be not be a commoner, you need to be the Sovereign or a peer. You know who’s a commoner? Prince Harry. William was one until he made Duke.
I don’t think William is any better than Charles here. They both seem petulant at times. And I am never impressed with someone who cuts off access to the grandkids and yet still expects their parents to supply him with endless amounts of cash. William and Harry have both said positive things about Camilla many times and so they have gotten over it. Diana died in 1997 and if an adult child cannot accept that the other parent has moved on, then that adult child needs to go see a therapist. The issues that Charles and William still have don’t relate to Camilla but to William being lazy and not working like he should. He doesn’t have those issues with Harry and it’s not like Harry didn’t live through the separation and divorce as well.
I really doubt Charles is jealous of the Middletons though. He is the one who will be king and so Carole may be in a bit of a shock when that happens. Charles will be guardian of the grandkids once sovereign until they are 18 and he will be interacting more with George as he gets older.
I have to agree.
I don’t look kindly on anyone who withholds grandchildren with their hands out. If William is holding on to something 20 years ago, he is immature and petty. Charles and Diana can be blamed for William in some things but as an adult how he chooses to behave is his choice. It isn’t like Diana didn’t go on to have her own life afterward. She had her affairs, and they were they were there for that too.
Coddling a grown man like he is a baby is ridiculous.
As for the Queen, I don’t buy that either. She would perhaps make an overture for the sake of the BRF, but I haven’t seen the sash, so I take that for what it is. In no way would she put their feelings above her family or tradition.
Since Charles will have the reigns soon and he will have the final word. I fail to see the intelligence in this on William’s part, but then he isn’t very bright or perceptive about people.
You can’t tell people how to grieve any more than you can say how William or Harry should feel about Camilla. They tolerate her. They may have reasons to dislike her that has nothing to do with the Diana stuff. William is a brat but to be fair Charles should have devoted a few years to his motherless sons’ emotional health instead of worrying about rehabilitating Camilla’s PR. Charles and the grandchildren will be just fine once the kids are older and things relax.
Adult children who have not dealt with grief from over twenty years ago and hold grudges because of it need psychological help. Diana was not innocent in terms of how everything was handled either. She was ok with Charles’ other mistress Kanga but only disliked Camilla. Both Charles and Diana handled things badly with their kids.
But the reality is that William and Harry have both been publicly accepting of Camilla. There is plenty of evidence out there but since you hate Camilla and call her a side piece there is no point.
@Shotcaller
I agree with what you have said. Nobody should tell anyone else how to grieve and what timeframe they should have.
@Nic919
“But the reality is that William and Harry have both been publicly accepting of Camilla.”
You know this doesn’t mean they actually like her. They probably did this for PR purposes only as a favour to Charles.
Correction: side-piece turned wife. No I don’t like Camilla. Diana and all of her many faults are in the grave. Charles did a horrid job of getting the boys the help they needed. He’s reaping what he sowed. William and Harry get along with Tom and Laura Parker-Bowles. It must be hard for you to accept the possibility that Camilla may be no angel aside from the Diana stuff.
@Nic919
No one else gets to determine the grieving time of another person. Also those feelings of grief can resurface at certain times.
I agree that no one can say how long a healing journey will take but I do agree with Nic. As a grown man with children of his own, William “should” handle his own baggage from the past for his own sake but also because if not the past will subsume the future—his own children (generational trauma).
And, IMO, Diane was wrong to emotionally lean on her children in the way she did. William & Harry, like any children, would have been affected by the dynamics of their parents’ relationship regardless. However, she absolutely poisoned the well where Charles is concerned . And, if we are talking about shoulds, he should have leaned in more with his time, care, and attention. However, a mother’s tears, moods and general mental well- being has a profound affect on her children. There is very little out there to compete with that.
You guys know that literally every other outlet reports that both William and Harry get along well with Camilla, right? And have for a long time?
No one is talking about how long to grieve.
That never goes away. It is about how long to allow it to rule over every other emotion and area in life. He has a role to play and children now.
However, I don’t believe it anyway. I think they both miss their mother and always will, but I think the idea that he is incapacitated by it is public projection.
Adult children who hold such deep grudges might also very well have been shoved over unacceptable edges from their parents as children. Some things are not forgiveable, some lines are lines that should have never been crossed, no matter how much times passes.
@Xena Your statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what forgiveness is. Forgiveness means letting go of the dream that the past could’ve been different consequently forgiveness helps the slighted party not the offender.
Everything is forgivable since forgiveness is a choice and refusing to make that choice means that the person is stuck in the moment.
Nic919, I agree. William has a lot of the traits Charles is accused of over the decades, but the press needs William to be the golden Prince , so much about PW’s selfishness and petulance is ignored or hidden by the press.
Just yesterday William missed a royal duty supposedly because of weather but had no trouble going out for fun instead. The press overlooks a lot to build Williams image.
Not to mention how incredibly lazy William is when it comes to Royal duties. Both Diana and Charles were always hard working , William doesn’t seem to have inherited that from either parent.
@Lavin
“Just yesterday William missed a royal duty supposedly because of weather but had no trouble going out for fun instead”
William had no other appearance scheduled yesterday apart from the St Patrick Day event which he attended. And if you are referring to pictures of him playing football with friends those were taken on Tuesday night. On the same Tuesday, he attended a scheduled event with Harry for the Met Police.
Here he is papped on a Ducati motorbike.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5514931/Prince-William-joins-friends-game-five-London.html
Out of all of that, I think the most interesting part is the aside that neither William nor Harry will be attending the World Cup in Russia.
William is Royal Patron of the Welsh Rugby Union and was scheduled to attend Six Nations game.
From Wales Online yesterday: ” Duke of Cambridge has been forced to scrap plans to attend the Wales v France Six Nations game in Cardiff today due to bad weather, Kensington Palace has said.”
William is a keen rugby fan and the vice-Royal patron of the Welsh Rugby Union. He and his pregnant wife, the Duchess of Cambridge , had earlier braved icy winds and snow to watch a St Patrick’s Day parade of the Irish Guards in Hounslow, west London.
A Kensington Palace spokesman said: “The Duke of Cambridge is no longer able to attend the Wales versus France game in Cardiff this evening
Walesonline,co.uk
How does an ex parttime ambulance pilot afford a Ducati? Must be nice!!
Diana has been dead 20 years. Charles should be forgiven for acting like a cad. He was pressured into the marriage with Diana. Camilla makes him happy, I think that he should be allowed to move on. But denying access to his grandkids is just plain wrong. Charles was a good father to the boys after Diana died. I have never seen pics of George or Charlotte with Charles. Pics of Carole with George at least have popped up. William can certainly hold a grudge.
Totally agree.
Agree Nic919. William needs to get on with it, as my British grandmother used to say.
William was on the frontline of his parents’ marriage and divorce. It’s not hard to see why he might be drawn to the Middletons.
They also cater to his every whim and don’t force him to do things like work. He is already treated like a king by the Middletons so of course he gravitates to them.
They probably do. No wonder this whole huge extended Royal family, with the divorces, deaths and dysfunction, keeps the gossip mill going.
It is not an in-law’s job to force someone to work.
IMO Carole and the Middletons saw an easy mark to take advantage of , in their quest for social elevation. I don’t find much about them honorable.
I dealt with this with my mother in law. She was jealous of my mother for a lot of reasons and one being that my husband adores her and they get along great. She disliked how close I am to my family and therefore how much time our children spent with them.
My father in law lights up when she is around and tends to gush because I believe he has a tiny harmless crush on her. She’s glamorous and commanding while my mother in law is very formal and traditional and she isn’t very outgoing. I would never call her a wallflower or passive by any stretch, she is very dignified and refined, but no one would call her warm. She’s brilliant but used to being in charge of her family and the dominant woman in everything.
I didn’t know her feelings were hurt until she told me. Then I felt terrible that I missed her overtures but she did them so quietly without much fuss I didn’t recognize how much they meant to her.
Once I made it known to her I was open to being closer to her I started to see her clearly and admire her for her strength and her deep devotion to her family and hidden sensitivity. She refers to me as her daughter and along with my husband, as her children.
Now she calls my mother to chat, and they aren’t best friends or anything but friendly and like each other. She’s not the kind of woman everyone likes. She just isn’t. But she always got along well with my father and especially my grandparents since she knew them from years ago. It took time to get here.
Bringing two sides of a family together isn’t always smooth.
With these two families, I just think the differences and complex situations are probably impossible.
What a lovely story Magnoliarose! I speaks highly of you that your MIL felt comfortable enough to open up to you about her hurt feelings. And how nice that she now refers to you as her daughter, I’m sure this closer relationship means the world to her.
What a lovely story, magnolia. It sounds like you’re surrounded by some great, strong women. It’s sweet your mother in law calls you daughter, it doesn’t always happen like that.
🙂
It took work and tolerance and thinking of my children and my husband’s feelings. I don’t like family dramas if they can be avoided because no one wins in the end. It causes a lot of pain and regret. Sometimes it just can’t be overcome because one of the parties isn’t interested or is so difficult it is a lost cause. This wasn’t that, so it was worth the effort to meet her a little over half way to try to understand her point of view.
Not to say sometimes I don’t get frustrated or everything is always perfect. I don’t think life works that way, but I put it in perspective and move on.
Also growing up I saw what happens when two sides can’t make it work and I didn’t want that. It was ugly and left scars and wounds that just can’t seem to heal.
I love your story, Magnoliarose, and it kind of serves as an eye-opening parable in my effort to understand the dynamics of that “other” family. Lovely story, in any case. Sometimes the masks we all hide behind just need to be let down for a little while so that we can see and better understand the real human beings who labor behind them.
All I can think about is how bad it’s going to be after the Queen dies. Charles and William are always going to be going back and forth and Harry is going to be caught in the middle. I think Harry will always take William’s side but he seems to have a lot of empathy for Charles.
from a family standpoint it is going to be rough, from a gossip standpoint it’s going to be amazing to watch.
I think Harry gets along very well with Charles. They have similar personalities and mannerisms and the same voice. The voice would be exactly the same if Harry decided he wanted to talk like a toff, which both William and Harry sometimes do when they are in private with certain people, such as their father. Harry also has that easy going relaxed charm that Charles has and has no problem being a ‘people person’, inherited from both his parents.
This family is messy. Just like many families. And jealousy is a really ugly colour on anyone. In our family we have the poppy syndrome. Its sad but I can’t celebrate my successes as apparently it highlights how little progress other siblings have made. So my sister and I keep our happiness in check around our family just in case it brings out the green eyed monster.
I thought it was pretty well established by now that Charles was in fact a good dad and helped his kids tremendously after the death of their mother?
If I’m remembering correctly, a story came out that Charles set William up to be photographed after his first meeting with Camilla in order to help legitimize Camilla to the public.
I think he loves his children and if he thought of something to help them, would do it, but there’s a perpetual self-absorbed aspect to his personality that makes Charles get in his own way.
I don’t think William has a problem with Charles over his mother. He was witness to a lot of unstable behavior by his mother. It seemed like from older photos he and Harry were close to Prince Charles. To me, it’s more likely the problems came later when William didn’t step up to the plate workwise, and Charles was probably on his case over the years,
I saw Liam Neeson in an interview on WWHL, and he was asked if he had ever met the royals. He was in a photo with Meghan Markle in 2016 at a fundraiser but denied he had ever met her. I guess he didn’t remember her. He said he was at Buckingham Palace a couple of times and met Prince Charles. But it was Camilla who made an impression on him, and it was funny the reason he liked her. Here’s the clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEEZrsgo40s
I agree with you Jayna. I don’t even believe he has an issue with Camilla. I don’t think he harbors anger toward his father about the divorce. I think he might be angry about many things that are connected that we don’t see.
Really, you think so? I think he made much more of an effort after Diana was killed, I’ll give you that. I think he is a failure of a dad, who only started to show up after his wife’s death. He doesn’t seem to put any effort into spending time with the grandkids, why is that? Oh he worked on building a fort or treehouse at his place, so that they can come and cater to him, that’s right.
Re Charles and his grandkids. I recently came across this picture of Charles next to George. He demeanour conveys boredom and bemusement in his grandson. Hands in pockets isn’t a good sign…
http://royalista.com/107524/george-enjoys-family-day-polo-club/gallery/image/107542
90% of PoW pictures have him with one hand in his pocket, it’s a habit, not something that speaks to his emotions. Like his sons that are almost always pictured with hands somewhere on their coat/jacket buttons, his hand is in his pocket. Hand in pocket is a nothing burger sorry!
Diana was the one that shared way too much marriage information with William- that is totally on her. Charles is likely an uptight guy used to getting his way. Camilla is a great influence on him. It has been 20 years folks need to get over it. Camilla will be Queen Consort. As for HM traipsing around Balmoral with Carol(with an “e”) that had William all over it. Result of yet another work shy trantrum. Carol(with an “e”) is in for a big surprise when Charles becomes king, he will indeed have more influence on George. BTW, is it me or is Charles looking steroid type puffy lately? Hope his health is OK and he lives to be King for some time.
Yes, Charles looks ill. A very puffy, swollen look. If he becomes king, it will not be for long.
I suspect Harry & Meghan will be closer to Charles and Camilla simply because Meghan has no family living nearby. And it looks like Harry has been making more effort with his father lately.
Meghan and Camilla get along very well and Charles has noticed that.
How do you know all this? I’m just curious as you post like someone close to the family!
LOL. Half the posts on here sound like they are from people who personally know them.
Camilla is desperate to be like by somebody, and she has quickly stepped in as a ‘Meghan supporter’. She erroneously thinks that her situation and Meghan’s are very similar.
Lol no I just have a few friends who claim to get their info from inner circles. I’m not posh, just happy to share royal gossip with people who like discussing it.
LOL @Shortcaller you could have fooled me. I think it would helpfull if you added a “I heard that” so readers don’t confuse gossip for facts. @Princessk, Meghan is an adult, she can make her own decisions. If Camilla is nice to her, that is the only reason she is close and getting closer to her. She seems to be trying to not get in the middle of this family’s drama, that’s a wise thing to do. After all she was not even around when all this went down therefore she has no dog in this fight. She is a wise girl to attempt to get along with everybody, and it seems that so far she’s doing that and it will serve her a lot of good. Kate too should have done the same, she had no reason to pick any sides even if it’s her hubby’s. A wise woman will always chooses to be a voice of reason between her hubby and the in laws as opposed to taking sides which unnecessarily adds fuel to an already raging fire. So if Camilla and Charles and HM and everybody else are treating Meghan nice, that’s not desperation to get in anyone’s good graces, that’s just the right thing to do and if Camilla such, she is doing well to be kind to a stranger. After all, if she had shown hostility to Meg, we wouldn’t Hera the end of how racist Camilla is towards Meghan, don’t you think?
@masamf….At the start of revelations about H & M there was a lot of silly nonsense put about that Camilla did not approve of Meghan. I don’t believe the stories and I think Camilla went the extra mile to prove that the stories were not true. But I do believe that Camilla was astonished at Meghan’s ‘fast tracking’ not in a bad way but just because it took Camilla so long to be welcomed into the fold. This is why I say that Camilla erroneously believes that she and Meghan are in similar situations.
I do not think that Camilla feels comfortable at Royal gatherings, she always looks lost as though she has nobody to talk to and wishes to make herself scarce.
This entire narrative about Camilla is so strange considering Camilla’s lifelong connections to the family. Not just because of the affair. Camilla gets on very well with everyone, always has. Sure there were some tricky periods, but not in the past decade. International tabloids like to paint her as a scheming drunk who is at war with the family, but that is completely untrue.
@Princessk, I was addressing yr comments that Camilla is “desperate”…. because I don’t think it’s fair to chalk Camilla’s kindness towards Meghan to desperation. And I’m just wondering why you believe Camilla even entertained the notion that she and Meghan are likes erroneously or otherwise. Camilla is married to the next in line, she is as English as they come and her situation is nothing similar to Meghan’s. The only thing they have in common is they both are divorced but again Meghan has this in common with a lot other members of the BRF so I don’t see how that alone would have Camilla think her and Meghan are in similar situations.
Im not that much of a Camilla fan but I don’t hold her responsible the the Charles/Diana fiasco. Charles and Diana made the vows to one another and made the decisions to break those vows and step out on their marriage. That should be on them, not on the people they cheated with. No rape or coersion was reported so they were adults that cheated on each other and the blame is squarely on their shoulders. Camilla and her ex are only responsible for breaking up their one marriage by cheating on each other. Migoodness, the cheating that went on with these 2 couples is appalling.
It’s daunting for MM that she will be living in a new with no family close by. Even if she and Harry have a wonderful marriage it would be comforting to have a mother/sister near her.
I have no idea how close she really is to her mother nowadays but it would be nice if Doria spent some time in the UK, especially when the grandkids come along.
Doria has her own life, some women raise their children to be independent unlike ma Middleton.
Another author who has a book to sell about the royals makes up salacious details to boost sales, know the royals won’t respond officially.
Robert Higdon who might just have an axe to grind:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039029/Prince-Charles-cuts-300k-Prince-Wales-Foundation-charity-chief-Robert-Higdon.html
Yeah I thought so. Books without sources and little research are to be taken for what they are.
Unless it says what you want to hear, and then it’s definitely truth.
That is true Bridget.
Usually, there is some balance when someone is genuinely interested in telling the story. And I never trust someone with a personal grudge.
Of course, this is just yet another person trying to make money writing a book about silly things we already know. All of it is eclipsed by the tremendous amount of good work carried out by Prince Charles.
I just believe it’s time to build a bridge. Diana has been dead for 20 years. 20 years is a very long time to hate on someone. And all for what? Regardless of whatever people think, if by the time HM passes Prince Charles is alive, Camilla will become the queen consort. The sooner people deal with that fact, the easier it will be for a lot of folks, just saying.🙂
Meh, the Monarchy for all intents and purposes will be over when Elizabeth’s reign ends. There’s nothing the younger royals can do to make themselves relevant. The ones that will do well in the future are those who’ve managed a dignified exit to civilian life.
Nonsense! The British Royal family have survived all kinds of things down the centuries, and they are still very popular. Harry and Meghan’s wedding will drive up the popularity and I think on the day it will attract as much attention if not more than W&K.
You are so wrong Princessk lol
Charles could not bring himself to love and cherish his first wife, a young woman who was besotted with him. She bore him the heirs that he needed and he discarded her like a used tissue. The children were denied a sense of family, a sense of permanence, a sense of unconditional love and loyalty. I don’t get the feeling that Will has ever gotten over that and he strives to do the opposite. I’m sure the Middleton’s have their share of faults but the parents stuck together, have a cohesive unit and they pull for each other. That is the paradigm that Will has chosen to follow, for cause. When I hear all the “work shy” stories, I feel they are planted by the firm’s countless mandarins to satisfy petty, selfish Charles. What I see is that Will is doing his damnedest to give his children/wife the unconditional love, support and priority that he never had and I feel that he is doing it to heal his own (still gaping) wounds.
Diana was 21 years old when she got married, she was not 16. She was equally obsessed with marrying Charles, she could have said no when he proposed but she didn’t, she wanted the marriage as much as he did. Do she is responsible for her decisions to marry a guy that showed her no love right from the beginning. I love Diana but c’mon, hold her responsible for her bad decisions instead of projecting everything on to Charles.
Masamf: Wasn’t she 19? I know she was 19 when they got engaged. VERY young.
Charles is quite boring & stuffy, & a bit selfish. Camilla is just gross to me & smug. I love Diana, & have always been obsessed with her fashion & story. She was a young girl, who married into a relationship they already had, & that’s unfortunate. She stood no chance.
I wonder if people would still be gushing about Diana if she had been deemed unattractive, not tall or blue-eyed and blood but shorter, plumber, and darker (hair and eyes). So much of the Diana-gush seems like projection.
Agreed. And she died still young and glamorous. This story would be different had she lived. She is romanticized with some details conveniently overlooked.
I remember the Press comments on her and Dodi just before she died. They were mean. There’s no way, had she lived, that we’d have made a Saint of her. The gossip was outrageous. I do wish she had lived though, there’s a good chance she’d have seen off Ma Middleton and clingy Kate!
Dang. What a mean book. Some of the comments are pretty gleefully uncharitable as well.
The bottom line is that Charles and Diana was a bad match. Charles was no angel. Nor was Diana. We know now about Diana’s issues. Diana is dead and everyone should move on and on some level has moved on.
William is slated to become King after Charles, good luck to him, assuming the monarchy survives that long.
After reading the DM article, I’m cracking myself up thinking about Charles’ affairs. “I’m in the mood for an afternoon quickie, Dear, the truck with my bed, toilet seat, and food shall be there soon”.
And as someone who has a hard time sleeping in strange beds, I’m a bit jealous I don’t have the money to ship my bedroom everywhere. 😉
KiddV, I have been reading through all the comments, and yours made me laugh out loud! 🙂
Princess T&T was a commoner who married up: “You can only be born an aristocrat,” said Princess Goria von Thurn and Taxis, “you cannot become one. You can wear aristocratic clothes, you can put on an aristocratic accent, and you can mix with aristocratic friends — if they are willing to mix with you. But you will always be a fake and they — the real aristocrats — will always know it.”
Aristocrats are just people whose families have been around long enough to wash all the blood from their money. There is absolutely nothing noble about them.
Diana wasn’t very bright, and she was naive enough to believe she was marrying for love. The nobility marries to punch out an Heir (William) and a Spare (Harry), and then goes back to fucking whoever they please. Charles is a self-pitying boob; Diana robbed of him of what spotlight he could muster, and now his kids are doing the same. Even his time on the throne will be brief, if in fact he ever gets to sit there at all. Guess he shoulda married Camilla when the opportunity first presented itself, back when they were in their 20s. Now he’s finally got her and after all the major drama is over and done with nobody likes either of them.
Diana’s father kept breeding until her mother pushed out an heir, then chucked her so she may have had an idea how it worked.
She thought she was marrying a man who loved her = naive. Her pedigree was even better than her husbands but she was a simple girl who had no interest in historical precedent, she just wanted the fairy tale. EVERY monarch/monarch in waiting had a mistress or 7. That’s how the upper classes work: they marry for dynastic prestige and find their happiness on the side.
I think everyone in the Charles / Camilla / Diana saga has moved on except for the die hard Diana fans. Before her death, yes, even Diana had moved on. And she wasn’t a saint herself; she did to other women what Camilla did to her – i.e. had no issues getting involved with married men.
It wouldn’t surprise me that William is close to the Middleton’s; they pamper and cater to him and in his eyes they are probably the idyllic two parent household that he never had. But nobody really knows the true dynamics of a family from the outside. Nobody.
I also really don’t think that Charles concerns himself with The Middleton’s. I would imagine that they are non-entity to him.
And I disagree that nobody likes Charles or Camilla. I happen to like both of them. Messy personal business aside, they both seem to be flourishing lately.
Agreed
Camilla won! She got the man, she’s practically the mother of his kids and she will be queen.
I’m a die-hard Diana fan. I loathe Charles for what he did and Camilla for her part. He didn’t bond with his sons at the crucial stages and now is surprised that they find him an intrusive nuisance. Why did he even propose to a 19 year old when he had no intention of ever being faithful, and when she had the babies, he was “busy” hunting etc. The pitbull was always there for him. I despise them both, more him because he’s the one who took vows. But she’s pretty close.
how do you know he didn’t bond with his sons at the “crucial stages”
I agree he should never have allowed himself to be pushed into marrying Diana, but many of the things said about his relationship with his sons is pure conjecture.
I saw Chuck and Di on their last official trip, to Toronto in the early 90s. The side of the crowd groaned when they saw he was coming to their side and Diana was going to the other. The most striking thing about Diana was that she looked like a bobble-head. She was terribly thin but had a big head and even bigger hair~ totally disproportionate head to body. I also saw the Queen Mother leaving the Four Seasons Hotel in Toronto when I was walking home one day in the 80s. She stood and did her little wave even though I was the only one on the sidewalk.