Over the weekend, Representative Maxine Waters made a series of statements about how Trump administration employees should be harassed wherever they go. I made a similar point in my half-assed editorial yesterday, which is that actions have consequences, and once this administration tore children and babies away from their parents and put those kids in cages and concentration camps, all bets were off. For me, all bets have been off for a while, but the family separations are the final straw. No Trump employee should be able to walk down the street without being greeted by dozens of sign-waving, screaming protesters. No Trump employee should ever be allowed to eat a meal in a restaurant again. These are some of the comments Maxine Waters made:
“You think we’re rallying now? You ain’t seen nothing yet. Already you have members of your Cabinet that are being booed out of restaurants … protesters taking up at their house saying ‘no peace, no sleep.’”
“I have no sympathy for these people that are in this administration who know it is wrong what they’re doing … but they tend to not want to confront this president.” Cabinet members who defend him are “not going to be able to go to a restaurant, stop at a gas station, shop at a department store. The people are going to turn on them, they’re going to protest, they’re going to absolutely harass them until they decide that they’re going to tell the president: ’No … this is wrong, this is unconscionable; we can’t keep doing this to children.’”
“Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. If you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd and you push back on them and you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.” History is “not going to be kind to this administration. We want history to record that we stood up, that we pushed back, that we fought and that we did not consider ourselves victims of this president.”
Yeah, I’m with her. I think that’s what should be done. It’s a fine line, of course, between advocating for these civil servants to be verbally harassed and 86’d out of every mall, restaurant, Walmart and Chuck E. Cheese versus advocating for some kind of danger to befall these people. I mean, I get it – no matter the violence that Trump incites, the Resistance can’t respond with similarly violent rhetoric. But I agree 100% with Maxine Waters. Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi does not though.
In the crucial months ahead, we must strive to make America beautiful again. Trump’s daily lack of civility has provoked responses that are predictable but unacceptable. As we go forward, we must conduct elections in a way that achieves unity from sea to shining sea. https://t.co/vlpqOBLK4R
— Nancy Pelosi (@NancyPelosi) June 25, 2018
Nah. I get why Pelosi has to say that in her position, just as I understood why it went along perfectly with Michelle Obama’s branding to say “when they go low, we go high.” But the rest of us aren’t living on those higher planes of existence. The rest of us want to stop giving Nazis any kind of legitimacy.
Speaking of threats and harassment, this is what the Fat Nazi tweeted about Rep. Waters:
Congresswoman Maxine Waters, an extraordinarily low IQ person, has become, together with Nancy Pelosi, the Face of the Democrat Party. She has just called for harm to supporters, of which there are many, of the Make America Great Again movement. Be careful what you wish for Max!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 25, 2018
No justice, no peace for all of these fascist, misogynistic, racist a–holes.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Notice she did not advocate personal or bodily harm, which is what Fox and et al.,went with. Sarah Sanders is a paid federal worker, we have the right to question them and voice opinions, even atbdinner!
A press spokeswoman has no power to change anything so that was just pointless (although gleeful for those who seem to think it’s brave and love the publicity).
I’ve written to my senators and will continue to do so because that’s where change can be made.
I couldn’t care less where some low-level staffer eats dinner.
I don’t care where they eat dinner. I do care that they abuse their position and government resources in flagrant violation of federal ethics laws, as Sarah Huckabee Sanders did.
Agree. I’ve long admired Maxine for having the courage to aggressively call out this administration for its treachery, but harassing staffers just doesn’t cut it. What follows next, more polarization… fighting words that escalate…. and eventually civil war? Is that really where we are as a society?
1. She has always had the option to not lie and/or insult the press 2. Normalization of racism, fascism, etc is bad and we’re in very real danger of doing that 3. There is absolutely nothing preventing anyone from contacting their congress and reps AND refusing to normalize this administration, and arguing that it has to be one or the other is baffling 4. Literally no one was discussing this at all until SHS freaking tweeted it out to he rmillions of followers from her government account. But yeah, you keep arguing that it’s the left that’s the bad guys here *eye roll*
But Sanders is not a low level staffer. High to low, ALL of their hands are dirty. I absolutely agree to write to congressmen but so far, no one is doing enough. I’ll tell you what, though; disrupt enough dinners and outings and more will be done. Reaching out with logic or empathy is not getting it done. No one cares enough. So guess what? Make them very uncomfortable. All of them, down to the secretaries. Working for kidnappers is not o.k.
Hatred is wrong? Yes. But kidnapping kids is worse. And I will never NOT hate that. Now it’s an emergency situation. Hate away if that’s what it takes.
Waters is right. It’s enough.
As Press Secretary, Sarah Sanders is a Chief Propagandist for Trump. She has the power to decide what gets discussed, how it gets discussed, and what gets shut down, who is allowed into the room and who is not. I would not call her a civil servant – she is a political appointee working directly for Trump.
And she is very much involved with this, because she actively supports the policy. If she wanted to distance herself from it, she had many opportunities. She is not a poor person. She can quit that job any time she wants. She can decide to say how she would feel if her own children were taken from her this way and that the policy was a horrible mistake. She can stop the lies about the “criminals” and other falsehoods by the President any time she wants.
“A press spokeswoman has no power to change anything so that was just pointless”
but she’s a lying mouthpiece for a lying administration. she CHOOSES to go out every day and perpetuate the lies and defend this indefensible administration. and does so while being snotty, belligerent and bullying.
SHE TRIED TO DEFEND TAKING KIDS AWAY FROM THEIR PARENTS AND PUTTING THEM IN CAGES. she is complicit and, therefore, fair game.
so, I don’t agree that it was pointless. I think that EVERY SINGLE complicit person needs to be shamed. you cannot bargain with fascists. you can only stop their fascism.
It’s less about caring about where these people eat dinner and more about not letting them stay comfortable.
I was at a talk given by Adam Schiff this past Sunday. He is on the House Intelligence Committee. One of the things he told us is that Republithugs were TELLING WITNESSESS that they DID NOT HAVE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS!! This is unthinkable! ALL of these POSes are complicit, at ALL levels!
Auntie Max is right: there should not be ANY peace for ANY of them ANYWHERE! HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE for their complicity, regardless of their position. They are ALL helping Dump in their jobs!
She has the power to harass and endanger owners of a business for not wanting to serve her. She has the power to NOT be the mouthpiece of a fascist regime. But she does both. The owner of The Red Hen has been doxxed and is being flooded with threats and abuse now BECAUSE OF SARAH.
Because Sarah is a petty, vindictive psychopath.
Corrrrrrrect! Because Auntie Maxine, if I may call her that, is no fool, unlike the current White House occupant. It burns my blood every time EZ calls her “low-IQ.” Racist hypocrite.
Also, you know the gentlelady brought receipts of the times EZ has incited violence in his ego-stroking rallies. History is on Maxine’s side.
But her husband and children are not. My issue with this is that I worry about backlash and unintended consequences. The blue wave is far more important than cathartic outrage.
There is not going to be a blue wave. Your election processes have been tampered with. I keep telling you Americans don’t have the range to deal with this. You’re still putting faith in your institutions but that is OVER especially after SCOTUS also became compromised. Listen to black women, they tried to warn you the first time.
Listen to Aunt Maxine! Gawd I love her!
I do too and it is why I give to her campaigns. I will forever just for “Reclaiming my time” and shutting down pet Stevie Mnuchin. There was no safe word that day to save his flustered ass.
I hate him and his Domina pretend Scottish heiress/actress/dubious murky CV person.
She also is extremely well versed in banking and finance law. She has been following the money since day one. This “administration” should NOT be taunting her.
I follow a woman on Twitter who is an advocate for the ACA because it allows her daughter, who has very complex medical issues, to remain in the home with care and medication paid for. As she has said, without the ACA her daughter would be either institutionalized or dead.
Just this morning she wrote this;
My daughter has epilepsy.
DonaldTrump & the GOP want to allow insurance co. to deny preexisting conditions
This means no seizure meds & increased seizures.
This means no emergency seizure
meds to stop dangerous seizures.
This means brain damage.
This means death.
So I’m good with harassing all the people in the administration who advocate for Trump and the Republicans who are fine with killing this woman’s child. They shouldn’t have any peace until they stop tormenting others.
Nobody is advocating that pre-existing conditions no longer be covered. That’s a falsehood. Pre-existing health coverage is universally believed to be necessary.
Mia C:
You are not reading or listening to the GOP very closely, are you?
@MiaC – Not a falsehood. Just one article on this significant topic, which is being drowned out by all the chaos and “civility” talk–
http://www.startribune.com/with-preexisting-condition-protections-at-risk-health-care-looms-as-top-minnesota-election-issue/486363371/
@Mia C – Trump’s Justice Department recently joined a lawsuit filed by 20 conservative states trying to get the pre-existing condition portion of the ACA overturned as unconstitutional. They couldn’t get it done through legislation, so now they are trying it through the court system.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/6/7/17440120/obamacare-penalty-lawsuit-trump-brief
If you live in Texas, Wisconsin, Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah or West Virginia you need to call your state’s attorney general and/or governor and give them holy hell for signing on to this suit in the first place. And then vote the bastards out in the next election.
@mia
The receipts have been provided….. no comment?
Me, too! I LOVE Auntie Maxine and I am totally with her.
Given the ever deteriorating situation it’s only a matter of time before another terrorist, be they Republican or Democrat, kills somebody.
This is exactly where this is heading. Neither side is all good or all bad. No one seems to be able to agree to disagree on policies anymore. It’s all based on hatred of the other side and name calling. I regularly see both sides calling the other fascists. It makes me sick.
I have friends who are on both sides of the aisle. One of them on the right (I won’t name her) is regularly on the news. She appeared on CNN the other day and since then has received numerous, vulgar and frightening death threats.
This is not okay. Hate is never okay.
They’ve stolen children. I hate this administration and as far as I’m concerned everyone who works in it is complicit, or, actively contributing to these inhuman and horrific policies. Death threats are out of bounds, and violence is not okay. But if you aren’t enraged over this administration, you’re lacking something.
@Darla – It’s fine to disagree about policies. Go to town halls, send emails and phone your Congressman and Senators. Call the White House and most importantly, VOTE.
Hatred and violence will only breed more of the same.
I am not encouraging violence, and Waters wasn’t either. I’m non violent.
I would never apologize for my hatred of this administration.
What Darla said. This administration is committing human rights violations. I will never threaten or physically harm anyone but you better believe I will make my opinion known by speaking truth to power, if given the opportunity.
And of course the Right had to jump straight to hyperbole and accuse Auntie of inciting violence. Sigh. Typical Rethuglican playbook.
Seth Rogan refusing to take a selfie with Paul Ryan and explaining why is perfect example of what Maxine is advocating for: not violence, but dissent. They will hear from us because that is our responsibility as voters. We have to hold our elected officials accountable.
People are getting hurt under this administration. No credible person is promoting violence, but civility is a tool used by the far right to silence dissent.
Conservatives and Republicans don’t seem to be able to agree on facts anymore. Not anyone else. I absolutely detest the false equivalencies mostly white people are giving. No one in power on the Democrat/liberal side is advocating for physical harm. We are advocating for protest, spontaneous protest.
If you break the social contract mandated by your people, you no longer get to participate in civil life. THAT is what they are arguing.
You need the same energy that is showing up outside restaurants, Trump concentration camps, outside of homes because that same energy will get you the passion you need for these town halls and elections.
I agree with Darla and Kitten. I will leave it there.
@Sherry, “it’s fine to disagree about politics”… I’m sorry but we are way beyond that . We are not in a political debate here. One side is okay with kidnapping children and putting them in cages and the other side is fighting that.
Sherry, you say hate is never ok. Standing up to SHS and Trump and the rest of the administration is not hateful. People are rightly appalled and angry and fearful. Disagreeing with what Trump and the right doing is not hateful. Please stop with the false equivalencies, it’s disingenuous. And dangerous.
Is anyone here going to be protesting on the 30th? This Saturday? I am going to D.C. to protest. I know it’s happening all over the country though.
Everyone – I did not say she advocated for violence. I’m saying the hatred is going to lead to violence. The messages my friend received were frightening and I only heard three of them.
No good is going to come from all of this hatred.
Sherry I really don’t know what to say to you without sounding nasty. NO ONE should be leaving anyone messages threatening violence. Period. It’s disgusting.
I don’t know anyone who goes on tv to defend Trump. I won’t see my own relatives for defending this monster and they’re not on tv.
As long as no one hurts your friend, I guess my response would have to be taken from Corey Lewandowski – perhaps your friend knows him?
“Womp womp”
Sorry but the dismantling of democracy has been 100% pushed by republicans since
Mitch McConnell stood up and said he would do everything in his power to obstruct Obama. The whole party is full of candidates who elected for and legislate on spite. Trump is part of it. The hate is coming from one side and it’s not the Democrats. Calling on people to fight for their civil rights isn’t hate.
Arguments like this infuriate me.
This both sides argument need to die in a fiery pit. This is not a time to agree to disagree. This is not a policy issue. This is a moral issue. You are aiding and abetting white supremacy and the emotional torture of innocent children when you make arguments like this. This is not a time to be telling people how to meekly fight for their lives just because you feel no urgency to fight. Get out of your privileged bubble and look at what is going on in the world.
VIOLENCE IS ALREADY HAPPENING. Those kids being kidnapped and held for ransom by Dump and the racist elf and viking is an act of violence that the kids and parents will never recover from.
You and people like you are trying to shut people up because you are uncomfortable. Tragedy is happening all around you and you just want things to stay the same. You are trying to maintain the status quo by telling people to follow their oppressor’s rules to gain freedom. Minorities will never gain freedom by following the rules of their oppressors.
The world inside of your bubble may have been nice and peaceful but the outside world that sort of peace that you thought existed only existed for white Americans, not for Black people, First Nation people, Asians or any other minority. This peace you are referring to only existed because white supremacy has created enough of a legal and social wall between whites and non-whites so that you never had to see the real inequality and oppression that was going on with us. You sound just like the white moderate that Dr. King warned us black people about in his Letter from Birmingham jail. You care more about keeping up the status quo than you do about justice.
Shaming of public officials is not about hate. It is a tactic of nonviolent resistance that goes back in our history to pre-Revolutionary times. It is also quite effective, because officials respond to such discomfort faster than to polite letters. It takes them out of their bubble. Look how the Republicans started ditching town meetings once people started showing up and asking why they were supporting certain legislation or going along with Trump on everything. They don’t like to be so directly challenged. It’s uncomfortable. A person who is truly sure they are doing the right thing will not be moved by shaming. Those who know their motives are less pure are on much shakier ground. I myself did not stop opposing war because I received a death threat, harassment, and public insults.
We need all approaches, though, so do what feels right to you. Just respect the need for others to do the same.
This is not about normal political disputes. This is about kidnapping children and obstructing efforts to find those children, while pediatricians are sounding the alarm about how much real and lasting damage is being done to the youngest ones especially. The situation cannot wait months and years for study groups and committees. Those children must be found NOW and returned to their parents.
When your house is on fire, you don’t stand around politely talking to the flames. Somebody’s got to get a water brigade started.
“Neither side is all good or all bad.”
yes, there were some “fine people” amongst those Nazis, right Sherry?
no, a person who defends despicable policies and the despicable people who implement them is a despicable person. just like the person who is nice to YOU but rude to the waiter is NOT a nice person.
sorry, this admin is ALL BAD. and I will say that all day long. no, violence and threats thereof are not acceptable, but that’s not what the dems are calling for. RESISTANCE.
@Sherry: I don’t know who your friend is, what she’s doing, or what her options are in life; Ideally nobody would be threatening anybody. However, if your friend’s vote, words, and career have all worked to actively enable the hatred and violence of this administration and its supporters, she should not be surprised that there are some out there who would stoop to threats, hate, and vulgarity in return. It’s still wrong, but your friend in this case has shown that she’s willing to actively support threats, vulgarity, and violence when it’s convenient for her.
I also wanted to add that it is NOT the responsibility of non-violent protestors and hecklers in public spaces to keep entitled, angry conservatives from throwing punches or pulling out weapons. If a Trump supporter’s reaction to valid criticism delivered in unfriendly tones is an inability to refrain from putting their hands on, shooting, or stabbing someone, they’re only proving the points being made about their side.
Darla, I’m going to the one in DTLA with my family and a group of friends (who are bringing some of their friends), so we will be a large contingent. I urge EVERYONE to find out where the #familiesbelongtogther walk is being held in your city and get out there to make your voice heard!
This is their website that you can use to find a city (yours or one near you): https://www.familiesbelongtogether.org/
@Sherry, is the President threatening your friend? Both sides are not the same. Stop preening about civility because if it were your children in cages, I don’t think you’d be so quick to be dismissive about differences in politics.
We are all vulnerable. They’re going after naturalized citizens now. The Muslim Ban and gerrymandered districts in NC and Texas have been allowed by SCOTUS. Are you friends with someone who supports this? And how many more non-Norway countries will find themselves on the banned list in time?
Civility won’t create empathy with bullies.
Noone should threaten anyone. It’s a crime. Advocate against it but don’t mistake that for politics. Politics is one side advocating to suspend due process and the other side trying to track down what has happened to thousands of children.
To all of the above posters thank you for voicing what needed to be said. I couldn’t articulate these things with any measure of civility. The two sides thing makes my head explode and I couldn’t respond to the OP without being harsh.
Sherry, I hope your friend stops what she is doing, for her own sake. History is not going to be kind to Republicans who did not take strong stances against Trump. She will not want to live with this on her conscience. We all have a duty to speak up. If she is maintaining their stance at all, she will really regret it. This is unlike anything that has happened since WWII or the civil war for this country.
we should also point out that violence is already happening and not just the violence & cruelty of tearing children (infants and toddlers included) away from their parents. POC are already being attacked and killed with impunity, people are already being denied access to healthcare and having their civil rights violated
These false equivalencies are so dangerous. Neither side is perfect? One side is arguing for the IMPRISONMENT OF CHILDREN. The other side is arguing for the interruption of meals in restaurants (staffed, no doubt, by immigrants) as a means of protesting the IMPRISONMENT OF CHILDREN. Your friend is defending vile and inhumane behavior. Her actions have real consequences. Do I care that she’s a super great girl who never forgets birthdays and plans the best-ever bachelorette parties? Nope. I’m guessing the families she is helping to destroy don’t care either. You’re friend’s hands are covered in blood, but it’s not because of anything the democrats did. She put it there herself.
I stand completely beside you, Sherry.
I’m sorry but one side does nothing/agrees about putting children in cages and try to defend the nazis and klansmen that murdered Heather Heyer; the other side is disturbing dinners.
It’s not equivalent, it’s not a “both side” situation.
Little brown children in concentration camps.
A bit of history for you. After WW2 the people in several countries shaved the heads of collaborators to mark their shame. Something to think about.
Actually the Republicans are much worse. Racist, sexist homophobe nazi’s that seek to destroy people’s lives. Don’t give me that two sides nonsense
Well, since American right-wing extremists were responsible for the majority of terrorist incidents during the Obama administration – twice as many as Islamic fundamentalists – whilst left-wingers clocked in at 2%, I’m going to go with the former.
It would also be nice if, in this new era of civility, Goebbels-In-Pearls’ supporters came out in condemnation at the kind of harassment Planned Parenthood, etc… workers receive every day of their lives…
Rescue cat, people are already being killed. Not to mention, the kids. If you think those children and their parents have not potentially had their lives shortened, ruined or worse, you’re kidding yourself.
It’s self defense at this point.
There apparently has already been one suicide attempt among the hostages, and a successful suicide by a parent.
It is not unrealistic to fear that some children may die in captivity. They are certainly in pain and will suffer permanent damage, more or less.
Go away ass face!
Underrated comment.
Truly.
The gall. He can literally incite violence and has no problem with that, or will pull the “joking” card, but then he puts words in others’ mouths accusing them of doing what he does constantly.
And wtf is with him and accusing others of having low IQs? Feeling a little sensitive about his own intellectual inadequacies, perhaps?
Yeah, he’s garbage. Every tweet still leaves me in disbelief that he is our POTUS. And I agree that his fixation on IQ is weird. I’ve said this here before but someone must have once told him what an important measure it is and he’s obsessed. I don’t know anyone else who talks about IQ so much. It’s so ridiculous.
There’s also the irony of him apparently believing someone’s IQ can be discerned without a test. Whether he has a positive or negative opinion, he does this all the time.
@ AUD
Projection. He has to accuse you of it first, before you get the chance to point it out in him.
Oh, and racism. 🙂
Yep. This
As one of her constituents, it infuriates me that rebuking Waters is a stand that Pelosi chose to take. This is no longer a time for civility. Stand up Nancy. We need to find more than “beauty” right now.
Unfortunately, this is Pelosi all over. She has never met a fight she isn’t willing to run away from.
I am tired of Pelosi. I am fed up with her. She is the centrist special interest choice and has always capitulated. She is the poster child for white lady liberal and does nothing to change the conversation. I am fresh out of patience for her and others like her. She is a hindrance and a drag on progress.
I will never forget her lack of leadership when the Dems had the majority.
She can take Chuck Schumer and Gillibrand on her way out. Biden and a few others too.
It feels to me (a non-American), like America is currently experiencing the equivalent of low intensity guerilla warfare right now and all we have from the left is the usual liberal hand wringing and teeth gnashing over the most mundane detail.
From the Democratic “leadership”, yes the usual hand wringing. They have never been fighters and they’re not now.
Real liberals living in the real world are mad as hell and we’re not gonna take it any more. What Cheetolini and his minions are doing is pure evil. They have managed to smash together racism, ethic cleansing and child abuse all in one ugly package. And we’re supposed to give a measured response to that? Just no. I do not condone violence, but I certainly do not condone submission!
We had reps and candidates who visited the concentration camps. Ringelstein, a Dem candidate from Maine, got arrested for bringing toys to them.
We have everyday people on the left who gathered outside of Stephen Miller’s house holding signs and chanting “Say it loud, say it clear; immigrants are welcome here!”
We have both candidates and everyday American citizens hitting the ground–canvassing, voting, calling. and protesting.
I get that people in other countries aren’t living this and don’t see what we see everyday here but I really wish people would stop acting like we’re just sitting around twiddling our thumbs. It does a disservice to the huge swell of grassroots candidates who are calling for change and altering the Democratic landscape, shifting it further left.
Again, revolutions don’t happen in the Oval Office, they start at the state and local level and eventually upwards.
That being said, we should always demand that Dem leadership do more. Always.
@ Kitten:
I may not be American, but I have 2 half brothers who are mixed race Americans and live in New York and Chicago – one looks Caucasian and the other looks mixed and as a result, gets a lot of trouble, despite the fact that he’s a gentle nerd who’s one of the most non-confrontational people I know. He got arrested last year (for apparently looking like a suspect they had a warrant out for). Thankfully, he works for a large corporate organization and their corporate lawyers sorted him out quickly and efficiently. But I’m not stupid and I know it only takes one rogue incident for the story to change entirely.
I worry CONSTANTLY that something might go wrong one day and the lawyers might not be fast enough…….So please forgive me, but I feel like I’ve got a reason to wish/hope desperately that the atmosphere doesn’t deteriorate further to his detriment.
So please understand that there are a LOT of non-Americans who will suffer immensely should this rubbish get further out of hand. I’m delighted to hear how committed you are (THANK YOU!) and I constantly pray for you guys everyday to come out of this nightmarish battle on top. The world needs you to.
She’s totally right. If These people won’t answer for what they’ve done they should at the very least endure being questioned repeatedly about their motives by the people they work for in public bc they are public servants.
Public servants? I wish
The calls for civility only ever go one way. The demand to reach out across the house only ever go one way. The expectation of good faith argument only ever goes one way.
Fuck their feelings. If the sensitive little snowflakes are so triggered they can retreat I to their safe spaces. Etc etc.
We’re beyond the point of expecting these people to raise their standards. What do we gain from taking the high road?
I’ll just leave this here.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ashleyn1cole/status/1010608741669048327
The reason they only go one way is because of the fundamental differences between conservatives and progressives. Progressives are the more “enlightened” party that wants to raise society up and be inclusive. Conservatives want to be exclusive and turn society into a divisive, Us vs Them mentality. The two don’t have the same goals or speak the same language, and there’s a good reason for that.
Opponents win when they make you sink to their level. It means you’ve abandoned your values that make you different, just to try to score points in the short term. And the other side is way better at what they do than their opponents are, so good luck scoring many points anyway. It’s an inherently uneven conversation. Each side is more successful (whether for better or for worse) when it follows its own values.
I have no problem with questioning people, or with peacefully ejecting them from an establishment, or otherwise trying to hold them accountable. Maxine wasn’t advocating harm against them. But it’s important not to co-opt the opponent’s methods while standing up and fighting for change. Fighting fire with fire only breeds more flames and destruction.
“Progressives are the more “enlightened” party that wants to raise society up and be inclusive. Conservatives want to be exclusive and turn society into a divisive, Us vs Them mentality…Opponents win when they make you sink to their level. It means you’ve abandoned your values that make you different, just to try to score points in the short term.”
People who make this argument often seem to forget an important point though. Sometimes, enlightenment, inclusion, and raising society up actually require some level of intolerance for attempts to threaten the progress being fought for.
Completely agree.
No change happens on the high road. None. The people who claim that they want to take high road do it from a point of extreme privilege. I don’t mean wealth I mean that their lives aren’t touched by the plight of others.
Yep magnolia! That is exactly it.
@ Magnoliarose:
A billion % correct as usual. Sometimes, it takes fighting back. Literally. Where would the American Southern owned slaves be if the civil war hadn’t happened?
Not advocating physical violence (ever!) against anyone, but you do have to be prepared to push back just as hard as you’re being pushed or get ready to be trampled over.
YES. You articulated that perfectly, Mags.
This! It’s bullying 101 — treat people horribly then when they react, they’re in the wrong. It’s a kind of gas lighting. Resisting peacefully but NOT passively against those complicit in the tearing down of our democracy is a first step. But we also really need to come up with a cogent counter-message, something as pithy as MAGA but real and for the rest of us. A project for us celebitchies? Long-time lurker btw, you all are my sanity in these strange, sad times… Thanks 🙂
Welcome Sue. Don’t be a stranger. 😉
As much as I hate the complicit GOP in this shitshow of an administration, I’d really like to hear, sooner rather than later, how the Dems are going to turn the House upside down.
Strategy much?
Please have a cohesive plan that all Dems, independents, and actual Republicans can get behind. Please do not be wishy-washy on issues. Try to repeal the tax cut for the rich. Say you’re going to save Medicaid/Medicare/social security. Insist on protecting borders but just not in the Nazi way. And for the love of all things sacred, protect our democracy from hacking.
Have a freakin plan! Let Robert Mueller take care of the criminals.
Or, when they go low, kick them in the jaw.
Say and do something!
Right there with you, brother.
I’m extremely concerned that with the increasing insanity coming from DC, we’re going to fall right back into the pattern of using “Look at how awful he is! We’re not him – what more do you need, really??” as a campaign tactic instead of coming out hard with strong, decisive stands on the issues.
Agreed. Where are the Dems right now? I hear that they’re mobilizing on the ground but people need to see and hear them. They have to have a message and they have to be loud about it to rise above the din.
You should look into how many seats the Dems have already taken over this past year, especially in districts Trump won in 2016. Trust me, they are there.
Dems have a message. They’re running on issues that matter to the average working class American and so far, it’s working for them.
Let Republicans run on MS-13 and repealing the ACA. That’s a losing strategy, guaranteed. Dems will keep running on kitchen table issues and keep picking up seats.
Thank you.
Kitten, you recently mentioned how people will pay an economic price, soon. The Harley announcement yesterday and the Dow continuing to sink are signs that the economy may end up like his casinos — messed up.
The tax cut hype is losing steam, too. I suspect they (Repubs) are trying to push through all the Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security changes while Zero distracts us with “civility” and other carnival barker tactics.
@Christin- The Harley Davidson move is only the first indicator of how Trump’s trade war will affect our economy. The Dow losing all of the gains made earlier in the year is also a sign of things to come.
The people at Harley Davidson were very clear about how worrisome these tariffs are. A spokesman from the company said that this eradicated the tax benefit they got from Trump’s policy earlier this year. More people will feel the affects by the end of the year, if not sooner.
For the last forty years…I have watched…in HORROR…as the Republican Party…headed by Ronald Reagan…use economic stereotypes (which ironically, the REAL Welfare Queen…she was a White woman who made millions off of defrauding the government) to broadcast to the WORLD that Blacks in this country were less than…I had to watch Reagan destroy unions…watch him changed the infrastructure of corporate America so that ALL of the money flowed not to the employees…but to the Executives and the CEOs…I have watched the Republican Party take away healthcare…have seen loved ones DIE because they did not have access to friggin’ ANTIBIOTICS for toothaches…or an atomizer for their life threatening Asthma…I have seen Republicans fight tooth and nail against raising the minimum wage…which means that my OWN wage has stayed stagnant for years…as the cost for necessities have EXPLODED! I have seen EVERY. REPUBLICAN. POTUS’ administration mire themselves in treason and avarice and greed…and hate…and war…..I have watched EVERY REPUBLICAN POTUS SINCE NIXON…cheat their way into the White House…..I have watched this as a spectator
I will no longer…go gently into the night…
Great post.
ITA. I’m sick of the government being on the side of the powerful. It will probably get worse given the makeup of the Supreme Court with Gorsuch on it. See: yesterday’s decision on Texas gerrymandering case.
Hell yes. Also, I love it when people are like “I’m a Reagan Republican..” and then proceed to talk about how much they hate Trump, as if prefacing it with “Reagan Republican” gives them some sort of moral authority.
You’re not cool, guy. Reagan sucked.
My mother and I were talking about that this morning. She outlined how we are living Reagan’s legacy right now.
BTW-I am sorry about your friend who has gone to the “dark side”. I read your post late and didn’t think you would see it. My thought was that she was probably hiding her change and she chose the man she did because somewhere there were value agreements. Still, it hurts and is disappointing. Hugs. Perhaps she will come back around? I had to cut people out and the fun memories are painful to recollect so I get it.
Yeah I posted down-thread that she initially broke up with him because of a difference in political opinions. A year later, they are engaged. IDK. I would say that she could be fairly moderate/centrist about certain issues but definitely not about immigration. She lived in various parts of Latin America for 10 years, she is extremely well-traveled and has friends all over the world. This is absolutely NOT the person I know.
Thanks for the kind words, Mags. It’s hard to lose a close friend but I simply don’t have any respect for people that support this administration. To me, you have to be morally deficient to do so and as such, I want no part of these people.
Preach, Lala.
It makes me sick. It really does.
I can’t imagine the disgusting comments that trolls are posting online about Rep. Waters. Also with 45 jumping in with his own comments, that has probably increased the troll attacks.
I wholeheartedly agree with this.
I still cannot believe these kinds of tweets are being put out by our president. She’s right — history will not be kind, and I hope it shows a true revolution in its wake.
Every Republican during the 2016 primaries was “polite” (to varying degrees) when being savaged by drump’s horrible, snide, unbelievable comments. Hillary remained high minded during his verbal assaults that encouraged physical harm towards her.
I don’t see how Rep. Waters is doing anything more than saying stand up to the drump administration. But drump’s point of reference is always ugly and tends to override any other narrative. Count the times he’s encouraged violence (He said he could kill someone in Time Square and get away with it.)
I understand Pelosi’s statement, but that’s all. Question is, how do you confront a dictator who intends to destroy us all?
I’ve already seen two videos this morning of deplorables in action, and they are very far from privately and politely asking someone to leave a restaurant. In one a woman harasses a Hispanic man working in his yard and tells him “even the president of the United States says you are a rapist”. In the other trump people are screaming at journalists and demanding they leave a trump rally. Both times the deplorables are out of control, full of rage and look seconds away from assaulting their victim. Both times the deplorable was an old lady! What’s up with old white ladies lately? Have they run out of managers to speak to? Why isnt CNN and NPR wringing their hands over this loss of civility like they were yesterday over the SHS story? https://www.theroot.com/white-woman-caught-on-camera-spouting-trumps-greatest-h-1827128244
http://www.businessinsider.com/jim-acosta-heckled-at-trump-rally-fake-news-2018-6
The video of the deplorable saying those things to the Latino gentleman was truly hideous. I don’t know what’s happening with white women. Other than to say that Hillary was right – they’re deplorable.
Every time I see these old white ladies I remember that it was women like them who were lined up, screaming and cursing at little black children who were trying to integrate schools. They are in their element again. for a few years it was uncouth to yell their racism in polite society. Now they can let it rip with impunity.
You just said it Iknow! You’re absolutely right.
Yes. One of the photos from the Boston school integration horror show had a group of people being nasty but all I can recall from seeing it is a white woman with her face twisted with hate.
And look at the faces of the people in the crowds in old lynching photos. The glee in some of their eyes is spine chilling. That kind of evil does not go away because a civil rights bill is passed. That evil is woven into the fabric of our nation and will exist until we weave a new tapestry of true equality and fraternity that recognizes and atones for the horrors of genocide and chattel slavery.
Exactly. Is it helpful to show up to a gun fight with a butter knife? Only if you you don’t really care about the outcome.
My opinion is that in an ideal world, we should be civil and we should treat each other with respect, regardless of political party.
The republicans and deplorables can go first.
They’re so hellbent on making Dems be “civil” and “respectful” and we fold every time (See: Samantha Bee.) But they elected a man who literally bragged about sexual assault on tape. They elected a man who said that John McCain wasn’t a war hero “because I like the guys who aren’t captured.” (or whatever his exact quote was.) They elected a man who mocked a disabled reporter. Katy Tur had to be escorted out of a rally by Secret Service. Etc.
Civility? You first, republicans.
It reminds me of what Jake Tapper said on Pod Save America after the correspondents dinner – that if they want to have a discussion about civility and being nice and everything else that’s fine, but we have a lot of things to discuss before we get to the comments of Michelle Wolf at a dinner.
And I want to add that while I referenced Trump above, it didn’t start with Trump. Trump escalated things and made blatant incivility a winning strategy, but Republicans have been going down this path for a long time.
Exactly.
I’m so tired of this grand master plan of Democrats to try and win these fabled swing voters. You know what? That’s not how we’re going to win the presidency. That’s not how we are going to turn purple to blue. You know how we will, Democrats need to GET OUT THE VOTE. Start canvassing in unrepresented communities. There are so many unregistered voters in neighborhoods that would be happy to get rid of this jerk. Nancy Pelosi need to stop trying to make democratic policies palatable to so-called Trump voters.
The Obama-then-Trump voters are like, 8% of the votes that went to Trump. It’s not an insignificant number but it’s also a voting populous that isn’t worthy of courting IMO. The Dems need to stop being afraid of immigration and female bodily autonomy. They have to run that messaging in tandem with the kitchen table issues.
But yes, I absolutely agree that now is not the time to half-ass it. Time to commit to going Full-Liberal.
IMO too many are overlooking what may be a fact: we are heading towards a civil war in a fight for our values. We may not be able to make peace with the large percentage of Americans who have authoritarian, fascist, leanings based on their white nationalism. I cannot even say that we have been bringing a knife to a gunfight because I don’t even think we’ve been bringing knives.
If Mueller indicts Trump, will he comply? If dems take over the house and senate and rightfully impeach him, will he leave? Or will be call on his army of thug supporters, who have been arming themselves for decades, to spill blood?
What’s worth fighting for? That is going to be the urgent question very soon.
I am non violent protester/resister. But I feel something very bad in the air. I want to edit this to add – I’m too old for violence. I can’t win a physical fight anyway. And the very last thing I want to see is blood, anyone’s blood. But the white nationalist right is itching for it. So what is going to happen then?
I hear your fears and I’ve been there but I really do think the violent alt right is a small (but loud) percentage, not a large one. Remember the caring Nazi after Charlottesville? They may talk a good game but when they or their livelihoods gets called out, they seem more likely to retreat. I don’t know, ask me tomorrow and I might give you a different answer, though. Sigh.
I know, I go back and forth on it. It’s a very frightening time. That’s another reason I hate Trump. I have never felt this dread of the future I feel now.
The one thing you cannot do (if possible), is show your fear. History has shown that that emboldens them. Stare them down.
I think they are a vocal minority, too. Anyone seen the protest photos from their side? Usually it’s a small group waving a rebel flag.
Someone upthread mentioned the older meanies, who are likely just lifelong hateful people.
Bullies often talk the loudest, and retreat the fastest.
Oops, I meant “crying Nazi,” dorm autocorrect.
And yes, it seems like these bullies have a tendency to retreat. A recent rally in Chicago with the Parkland kids and other anti-gun violence advocates, a Trump supporter came charging in with a big flag and everyone just started him down, inching closer in to him with their own signs, until he backed down.
Don’t worry about a physical fight. I gotcha girl. lol I haven’t been revisiting kickboxing for no reason.
In all seriousness, I feel it all coming to something too. The pressure is too great.
LOL Thanks magnolia!
Yeah, it’s building to a boiling over point.
I posted yesterday about my friend who suddenly got bitten by the Trump zombie. Last night, I spent far too long arguing with her on social media about her stance on immigration policy and her concern about Maxine “calling for harassment and violence”. I just cannot emphasize how shocked and saddened I am to see a good, kind, staunchly Democrat, childhood friend turn to the dark side. I told my BF that I no longer want anything to do with her Trump-supporting BF and I mean it. I’m at the zero tolerance policy stage with Cult 45.
I went to sleep so upset and woke up with a pit in my stomach. Something bad IS in the air. Losing a dear friend over Trump is heart-breaking but also so very alarming to me. I just cannot believe that people can be swayed by this man’s agenda. My friend went to f*cking Oxford FFS. She is a brilliant woman. HOW is this happening?!?!?
I don’t know Kitten, and that’s very disheartening to hear. Oxford, my gawd. I’m sorry you lost a close friend. I have no answers, and I am searching myself. I just don’t know. If it weren’t for here and twitter, i would be very alone. But i’d still be going to protests, donating money, and calling congresspeople. I did read an article that said that people like us who are in despair over this, do a lot better when we get actively involved. It’s one way to keep our sanity, which we need to fight.
It’s craziness. And it wasn’t just the fact that she was repeating right-wing talking points, it was the fact that she was arguing like a Republican. She was framing every argument as a binary choice, she was hand-wringing about MS-13, she was glossing over every point I made in favor of emotion and hyperbole. Not once did she bring up a viable alternative strategy to what is happening now at the border. Not once did she acknowledge that this immigration policy is disastrous and inhumane.
It was all “Obama did it first”. Sigh.
We are flying out to Iowa this week to see my BF’s family so we are going to miss the protest here in Boston. We are so disappointed but hoping we can find something locally. He’s from NE IA which is the more liberal area of the state so..fingers crossed.
And I totally agree with you about fighting. Some people think these protests are meaningless but for us they are not. It’s a way of fighting back. It’s also really reassuring to be surrounded by millions of people who hate this administration as much as we do.
Aw, Kitten, that sucks. It is really strange because I can’t think of a single person I know who would be swayed by pro Trump, right wing propaganda, except for young kids. My younger son likes to float the right wing talking points he hears at his lunch table at school by me, I think mostly just to drive me crazy. I know he gets his news from a variety of sources and can discern fake news much better than the older, FB crowd. He’s always questioned everything and it sucks to see him distressed by all this and sometimes feeling like he has no idea which way is up with this country.
But how it can happen to someone older is much more mysterious and vexing. You said she has a conservative boyfriend, right? Do you think she’s doing this for him? My old business partner married a conservative guy and I have watched her slowly pick up some of his views, mostly about guns. But her liberal ideals are still mostly intact. I feel bad for her, though, because I do think she pretends to be more conservative than she is to appease him. It’s kinda f^&ked up.
I’m sorry and you did the right thing.
@Esmom-Yes she is engaged to a guy who works for the Pentagon, which is why (if you followed my other post about this) my BF and I were FLOORED that he would post about basically not caring about family separation and “cry, snowflakes, cry” or whatever callous shit he wrote.
I really don’t think someone who works for the Department of Defense should be saying shit like that on social media. He deleted it after my BF wrote “what?” underneath.
She also just got a new job working for a Republican so there’s that. But I absolutely think that she posted those RW links as a way to reconcile her relationship and her job. She broke up with him in the past because of a difference in political beliefs so…it was obviously always a point of contention.
Until now, I guess. Sigh. I guess she decided that after watching this administration do unbelievable damage to this country, now is the right time to finally embrace it. :/
But I think posting links that push the “both sides” narrative makes her feel better, as if right wing ideology is somehow equal to left wing ideology in terms of manipulation and outright lies.
She’s really perfected her right wing perpetual victim mindset, BTW. She keeps accusing those of us who are actually debating the policy that we are “ganging up on her” etc etc. Meanwhile, I’ve kept the discussion on the level, despite her over-the-top emotional replies to me.
It’s so sad. Thanks for letting me vent here, guys, I really appreciate all the replies etc. I’m so depressed about this…
Anger is like sugar-it’s a quick, easy fix when you feel scared, or unsure, or alone, or vulnerable. Things like facts and reason and compassion and empathy are slow fixes for what ailes you. It can be hard to take responsibility, to take action and make choices about your life. It’s hard to feel your feelings. It’s also hard to go after the big guys. I mean, htf would you go about taking on the Koch brothers? Much easier to get angry at an immigrant, at someone more vulnerable than yourself. It’s kicking toddlers, really, what these people are doing. I’m sure, in the moment, all these people feel powerful.
@Darla, I feel the same. I keep reminding myself that our country has been divided like this before, and the causes that history now considers righteous (suffrage, civil rights, anti-Vietnam War) were often met with anger, hostility and violence by a large part of our population before the tide turned.
In 1875, The Supreme Court ruled women didn’t have a constitutional right to vote. It took decades (almost half a century) to change that fact, but it did happen.
When the non-violent protesters at Kent State were killed by the National Guard, only 11% of people polled by Gallup felt that killing unarmed college students protesting a war was a bad thing. The rest blamed the students or had no opinion at all.
I don’t have enough room here to detail all the sacrifices and setbacks that are part of the Civil Rights movement in the US, and that struggle is still very much ongoing. I don’t think anyone would say we should just accept the way things are now and be grateful it’s not as bad as it used to be.
My point is we can’t surrender because of setbacks or do nothing because we think things will only get worse no matter what we do. If one strategy doesn’t work, we try something else. We all have to do what we can to make things better, and hopefully we can do that by uniting people rather than dividing, but if not, then so be it. “Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.” No contribution is too small. I truly think we are at a point now where history will judge each and every one of us.
Thank you jetlagged, well said.
Yes Maxine!!!!!
Exactly to the fact that she’s not trying to incite physical harm. She’s just trying to make their lives somewhat uncomfortable. Children were stolen. Stolen. Period. Anything past that as a reaction is an act of self defense. They should not be able to live a comfortable existence while even ONE child remains kidnapped. Because that’s what this is. The article where parents were seen wrapping their legs around their kids so they would not get STOLEN was nausea inducing. Horrific beyond comprehension. I would have lost my mind, seriously. I don’t know what I wouldn’t do in that case, tbh.
We need more Maxine Waters. I don’t want to go “high”. This is world war ll level evil. There is no going “high”.
It must be stopped.
If someone came into your house to steal your child, you’d fight. To any degree.
Seeking asylum can not mean kidnapping kids and then LOSING TRACK OF THEM, DRUGGING THEM, PUTTING THEM IN CAGES. And then demanding these forever traumatized children to do the pledge of allegiance EVERY morning. Pledging allegiance to whom, exactly? The kidnappers!??
Nope.
And Trump always talking about I.Q’s is some serious trolling.
I hope fucks and friends do NOT sleep well at night, safely with their kids, but they will. They don’t care. So we have to.
Maxine Waters is my hero for life. And I agree with all my heart that — when it comes to the unconscionable, unethical, immoral behaviors of the GOP, Fatzi, his family, and corporate parasites — we all need to vigorously protest, push back, heckle, set firm boundaries, oppose, demonstrate, strenuously object, hold accountable, stand firm, etc. I wish, however, that Rep. Waters hadn’t used the problematic word “harass” given that’s legally tied to restraining orders & criminal behaviors. I view that as a misstep and poor word choice on her part–and it’s something I honestly wish she’d take a quick moment to clear up as part of another GOP-ass-kicking sound bite.
As far as Pelosi’s attempt to score a political point with her oh-so-civil civility rebuke of Rep. Waters, it was mealy-mouthed, ineffectual and pandering. Give me a fiery, articulate, no-BS Maxine Waters any day! I respect MW so much.
Yeah it was a misstep from Pelosi. As far as Schumer goes, it was par for the course. New York can do so much better than Chuck. He’s the wrong party leader for these times. I can’t stand him, but even putting that aside – he’s the wrong person for these times.
A white woman rebuking a black woman is a bad look for the Dems who have disappointed black women over and over for years. She is really obtuse sometimes. Black women have carried these elections for the Dems but sure Nancy push more black women away. Solid plan for success.
This tells me she is out of touch and hasn’t been reading up on what black liberals are doing and saying.
That’s true.
Agreed.
THANK YOU, Spring. I’ve been perusing the comments and yours says, perfectly, what I think too. Every time something must be said, America cannot become what is being peddled by Sanders and co. Also, @magnoliarose right? Ridiculous. Another thing I cannot stand is the transparent pandering, by any means, to stay in office, instead of doing what’s right. Especially by whitesplaining Maxine Waters.
Pelosi has made some valuable contributions to the Democratic Party in the past, but it’s time for her to go. We need someone more progressive.
Thanks @Kitty. That’s true and in my anger, I can still give her her due. But, gahd yes, the time has passed for the usual, middle of the road, leadership.
Sufragettes, Vietnam protestors and civil rights advocates were well mannered too. *rolls eyes* We are fed revisionist lies all the time. It’s all about social engineering.
At some point, you just have to refuse to do business with people who kidnap children and obstruct attempts to find those children.
This isn’t actually about politics, but about actions that are very directly harming children. Not potentially harmful policies, not the infamous collateral damage of bombing raids, not arguments about the best way to help people or stimulate the economy. But very directly taking real children, whose faces we can see, right in front of us away from their parents and sending those children all over the country in the dead of night with no secure tracking system. Really not a partisan issue, as polls make clear.
The restaurant was polite to Sarah, they just didn’t feel they could serve someone who was such a part of all this. I’m not much of a chanter, but I can certainly understand why others would want to shame such people with chants (public shaming of officials is a very old tactic in unarmed struggle). At some point, you have to “just say no” to evil in whatever way you feel you can. The staff at the restaurant simply reached that point, Sarah and her colleagues had crossed their line in the sand.
Sarah is not a low-level staffer. She is the White House Press Secretary and the public face of the Administration. She defends Trump to the hilt, whenever she can figure out what the heck he is saying at any given moment. She decides which questions are addressed and which are not, and she blithely insults members of the press who ask inconvenient questions. She is in all this way up beyond her eyeballs.
The problem with Pelosi, and why I think she’ll be gone soon, is she’s playing politics like it’s 4 years ago. It’s not, it is 2018 and this administration is tearing this country to shreds.
As far as civility goes? FUCK. THAT. Do not buy into this gaslighting tatic, no matter who it is coming from. NEVER forget that the same idiots who are trying to tell you to be more like MLK fail to remember her was getting mail from “liberals” all over the country telling him they didn’t agree with his tactics aka protesting.
We are still Americans. We have the the right to protest, really, and VOTE and every time someone from the other side tries to speak this false violence equivalency, say Heather Here’s name and walk away.
Is Ms Waters the only dem he has called, repeatedly, ‘low IQ’?..that alone speaks volumes that most people here already knew
Voters in New York, there are local races today, go out and vote for down ballots candidates. I Voted, BE BEST, whatever the s$#@ that means. Seriously, vote.
She’s not advocating violence just to hold public officials responsible when in public spaces. Remember how much press and pressure is put on public officials for the kidnapping of 1 blonde child? Multiple that by 2,500. Furthermore the kidnapping is being done *by* public officials. These children are citizens of a foreign country. Imagine if these kids were citizens of Britain, Russia or Iran? It would be considered an international incident and possible cause for hostilities.
Trump is single handedly bringing down our country. What happens in 20, 30, 40 or 50 years when their countries possibly become more powerful? Do you think they will forget that children of their country were once kidnapped by the US? They are watching. It’s going down in their history books to be remembered forever.
Can you believe Paul Ryan just demanded an apology from Maxine Waters???
This is what they want. Civility is a one way street. They want us on our knees while they steal supreme court seats, put children in cages, and employ racist propaganda.
And the moderates, the white civility police, help them.
No way. Not me.
What the hell? I’m so sick of Trump and his people getting to say whatever they want while demanding apologies for even the tiniest of slights. Can nobody see that this is getting out of hand, is already well out of hand? What will it take?
I hope she don’t. When the dotard apologize for all his hate and violence speech, then she apologize.
Valerie – “What will it take?” Karma.
Well, personally, I think you should get up in their faces and protest! These people are insulated in their washington bubble – they should be out and about and able to get a feel for what the public thinks of their agenda. No violence, but oh yeah, follow them around and chant slogans, wave signs and just generally disrupt.
Apparently,those part of this administration can’t get dates anymore. I read an article where they were complaining that people block them or swear at them on dating sites in Washington once they find out that they work for Trump.
Love you Maxine. ❤️
All I can say is, HELL YEAH. Do not apologize. Do not back down.
Maybe the word harass is the wrong word. How about refuse to serve? Like the religious cake makers who refuse to serve cake to gays.
Really, Maxine is saying to treat Trump and his ilk the same way they are treating us (minorities, etc.)
The problem with this is that we live in a “sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander” society. We cannot say it is all right to refuse to serve a member of an administration that a portion of the electorate do not support, and then get indignant when a member of an administration we do support is refused service.
I appreciate the feelings here, but this represents, to me, again, the willingness to see the divisions in the country deepen.
Sorry, but on this one occasion, despite being a lifelong Democrat and despising Trump, I think this is a slippery slope.
The alternative is to serve someone in the thick of Administration human rights violations, someone who has actively and openly defended child kidnapping.
If someone who had molested your child, who had kidnapped your child and gotten away with it with no legal consequences came into your restaurant – would you feel obliged to serve that person?
This isn’t about politics. This is about crimes against children that are being committed and abetted by people like Sarah. And most of the children are still missing. Their trauma continues and the damage goes deeper and deeper. The government is blocking efforts to locate the children and reunite them with their families.
When the pediatricians are speaking with alarm, you know you have a very different situation than usual. We must put all sorts of pressure on government because those kids have to be found NOW. Consider this as a couple of thousand Amber Alerts.
How do you guys want immigration policy to be? Everyone’s talking about protesting, but I haven’t heard about immigration policy. It’s interesting to me because I’m not american.
I get your point but “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind”. Just my opinion.
@elisse – it’s more than that: to me it is a “be careful what you wish for” issue. Things that we toss over the side in a storm usually suffer a sea change and are never retrieved in the same condition they were. I don’t have a 100% take it or leave it position on this, there is such a thing as civil disobedience, I just think some bullets are better saved (metaphorically speaking) and for bigger battles. She’s a meaningless stooge not the architect of policy. I would have no trouble refusing to wait on Dick Cheney AND getting fired for it because to me he is one of the most evil men ever to hold power here. What good would it have done refusing to serve Moron Bush’s Press Secretary? Would it have stopped Cheney? Don’t think so.
Those are my thoughts.
I agree with Maxine. Now is not the time to play nice with the Dotard and his administration. They are destroying this country. I do not understand where Nancy is coming from. She doesn’t want Democrats to talk about impeaching Trump( I would understand if she said it was because then we would get Pence, but her only argument is that there isn’t any proof to impeach him even though he has committed many abuse of powers violations) for fear that it will mobilize his base. She doesn’t want Democrats to talk about the Russian investigation for fear that it would mobilize his base. Now she doesn’t want anyone to confront the Dotard’s staffers for their bad behaviors because it would mobilize his base? What Nancy is advocating isn’t civility, it’s complicity. Nancy had one job to do and she failed. What the Dotard loves more than anything is that there isn’t any loyalty among the Democrats. The Dotard knows that he can say and do whatever he wants and the “civility” Democrats won’t do anything to stop him and will even go to any lengths to silence those Democrats who refuse to follow the civility approach. We are witnessing history repeat itself. How long will Nancy ride the “civility” wave? What Nancy gets wrong is that it’s not the base mobilizing that she should worry about. It’s the bots/trolls who hacked into our power grid and organized anti-immigrant rallies. If the press, republicans, and civility Democrats like Nancy were doing their job, then there wouldn’t be a need to tell people to confront these Dotard staffers.
Did you hear about Sarah’s pity party/revenge tour(this means that the attack on Michelle Wolf was never ending because behind the scenes because Sarah just wouldn’t let it go)? She gave an exclusive interview and said that someone threatened to kidnap her kids(in essence, Sarah pulled an Ivanka, where was Sarah’s concern for her kids when she was using the Bible to justify separating kids from their families?). I didn’t see anyone threatening to kidnap her kids, but I did see bots and Trump supporters threatening harm to Red Hen, the owner of Red Hen and her family, Maxine Waters, and immigrants. I don’t understand why the press continues to let Sarah get away with her lies. Why are they so willing to sit there and take whatever she dishes out, even attacking anyone who dares to stand up to her? Is that spot in Sarah’s press briefing really that important? If they wanted to hear lies all they would have to do is read the Dotard’s account. This is why Nancy’s civility argument doesn’t work. Sarah is no different than Joseph Goebbels.
What a shame the dirty politics of the GOP has caused such an ugly schism in this country. And yes, I lay the blame on the GOP and you can go back a good 50+ years and watch how it happened. I’m sickened by all of this hate. Also Maxine Waters rocks! Love her.
Name calling Democrats and Progressives as “Libtards” will destroy any GOP outreach to swing their votes. It will destroy any any attempts to lure NeverTrump conservatives (like me) such back to the GOP, because you he name calling reminds us how anti-intellectual, bullying, and downright fascist the Trump-run GOP has become.
Sign me up as a blue dawg Democrat!
Well said, Jayne.