So Lady Gaga performed in Arizona yesterday (or Saturday?). As many know, Arizona has been in the middle of the national conversation about race and illegal immigration and human rights and civil rights and the economy because of a state-wide law that was passed a few months ago that was one of the most hardcore pieces of anti-immigrant legislation in the country‘s history. So… Gaga had something to say about it.
She started out talking about bravery and stuff: “I was never a brave person… but now I’m going to be brave for you. Tonight… I want you to free yourselves, I want you to let go of all of your insecurities. I want you to reject any person, anything or any law that has ever made you feel like you don’t belong.” And then she launches into a story about how some big-wig couple wanted her to boycott Arizona while the sh-t was still hitting the fan. And Gaga then says: “And I said, ‘Do you really think that us dog-f-cking pop stars are going to collapse the economy of Arizona?’” And then she launches into a bit about protesting and being active, etc. And then, “And do not be afraid, because if it wasn’t for all of you immigrants, this country wouldn’t have sh-t.”
I mean, yes. I can understand not only why Gaga is saying what she’s saying politically, but why she felt the need to even bring it up – because people were telling her to boycott. And I do give her credit for encouraging peaceful protesting, as opposed to Gaga telling her monsters, “Burn the f-cker down.” But it’s strange… when Gaga talks politics, I feel pretty much the same way as when Madonna talks about politics. Basically, “There are larger issues at play here, so spare me your soundbyte.”
Header: Gaga on July 9, 2010. Credit: WENN.
I know this is going to be a hot topic. So I’ll just say this, I’m tired of celebrities putting their names behind certain campaigns or causes. Their fans follow them aimlessly without doing the research for themselves.
I am against racial profiling, but I am also against ILLEGAL immigration.
So I will not be boycotting Arizona because Lady Gaga or Kanye asked me to.
Dang she looks like Madonna & Kelly Osborne’s lovechild in that header pic!
It’s always amusing to hear an idiot comment on something she has zero idea of what she’s talking about.
My nine-year-old told me yesterday that she is “sick of the Lady Gagas because then the next person has to do something even worse to get noticed.”
As a legal immigrant, I am not pro-illegal immigration – becoming a legal immigrant here is expensive and time consuming! However, I have a problem with the racial profilng that will likely be used by some in Arizona.
I have a very strong accent, but with my obvious caucasian looks, I wonder if I would be as likely to be stopped and asked for my Green Card as would be more likely if I were of hispanic origin?
I think everyone should walk the walk as far as their principles go – but if Gaga uses her time in Arizona to educate people on the racist undertones of this legislation, then that may be as valuable as boycotting.
Have you ever noticed that we have this whole group of celebs who are always telling us how we should vote or what we should believe? And yet, I’ve never seen a more disfunctional, narcissistic, self-important group of imbeciles in my entire life. They have absolutely no concept whatsoever of reality and yet think they are so superior to us. Shut the ef up, and sing!
“There are larger issues at play here, so spare me your soundbyte.” Do you think that 15 year old GAGA fans are watching Keith Olbermann or Jon Stewart? Pondering upon the “larger issues” at hand? Oh, and what are those issues anyway? Is immigration not a big enough issue for you? One can not be against racial profiling and in favor of all law based on that very same principle. In my experience, people do not come to the US because they want to. There are millions of young adults living “illegally” in the US because their parents brought them here when they were children. They did not have a say in the matter! Now they are marginalized for something they have no control over. Sure they can “go back to where they came from” but they have roots here, lives that were built around their immigration status. It’s very easy to say that you’re against illegal immigration if you are uneducated about the entire issue as a whole.
In the words of Jack White
“white Americans, what?
nothing better to do?
why don’t you kick yourself out
you’re an immigrant too who’s using who? what should we do?
well, you can’t be a pimp
and a prostitute too.”
#1: Agreed. While I get why Gaga said the stuff she did because she was asked to Boycott Arizona, it’s just…*sigh*
That horrid law was passed in Arizona because people were desperate. The government has its hands tied behind its back because of deregulation laws, bureaucratic crap, and a Congress that’s looking more and more like a circus permanently camped in DC as the months pass.
So the state took matters into their own hands – with a bill that was headed by a racist, anti-semitic politician. So unsurprisingly, you’re going to get a law that is racial profiling at its core.
The law is wrong, but its so much more complicated than celebs are making it out to be.
Lolav: I applaud you!
Lady Gaga didn’t tell anyone to do anything. All she basically said was she is against what Arizona is doing and she has decided to perform in AZ for her fans, but she doesn’t like what AZ is doing. Thats it. Lady Gaga was saying she supported the immigrants plight. However Lady Gaga didn’t say anyone should do anything.
I know its frustrating celebs have a bigger audience to tell people how they feel and what they think, and I know alot of people may not want to hear what they have to say but this is America. They have freedom of speech same as us. You also have the choice to not listen or read what they say. You have the choice to voice your opinion about their opinion. However its not right to say they aren’t allowed to say what they want about things. Sometimes they are stupid and lame thoughts but they are allowed to say what they want.
such a controversial subject! as a hispanic i totally understand how some minorities will get the heebie geebies from this law, esp as one that could very well fall under the category of LOOKING like an immigrant [you people have NO idea how many times people ASSume i am mexican just bc i look hispanic – and i am puerto rican, born american]
BUT i also hate when popstars, actors or the super rich tell us how to behave/act/think
as someone mentioned, some “illegals” are children who had no choice in being considered illegals, and for those that say that illegals should just go back to their countries, its not like some of those countries are the most welcoming [esp for women and kids] or the most stable [hence, them leaving for the bigger opportunities of the land of the free, america]
it is ALL complicated and a few sound bites never get to the bottom of all the issues [unemployment, stagnation of economy, immigration crimes, etc.]
le sigh
lolav, that was excellent!!!
If I had a way of half a million or however many people listening to what I had to say about a particular issue, I’d use it. No one should be censored when it comes to politics or human rights, etc. It’s a celebrity’s right to voice his or her opinion and even to do so at events people paid for, it’s not illegal, and it’s a natural urge to speak one’s mind. Paying customers have the choice to agree, ignore, or boycott, but people’s voices shouldn’t be taken away.
Once again, the law is not anti-immigrant. It is anti ILLEGAL immigrant. Ffs.
@Janeth: Aw, thank you kindly!
Like I said in the other post:
Attention at the soapbox for her excuse of relevancy in light of her lack of actually originality.
Please stop overexposing yourself!
You people are showing your IGNORANCE!!! You are believing the people with an agenda rather that exactly what was done in Arizona!!!! Arizona DOES NOT, WILL NOT, CANNOT perform racial profiling. The ONLY thing this law does is allow – during the course of investiation of a crime – is to allow law enforcement personnel to ask about immigration status. NOT pick up random people. Oh, and by the way, THIS IS THE FEDERAL LAW ALL READY ON THE BOOKS!!! The Arizona law is less restrictive than the Federal LAW!!! For goodness sake people, read for YOURSELF!!! Don’t regurgitate crap told to you by people with an agenda.
Agree with you Denise and other posters; the quotes show that Caca hasn’t down the slightest bit of research or reading on the complexities of immigration; the quotes are just a bunch of rambling blathering that amounts to nothing in the real world but in Caca’s world are probably regarded as profound pieces of reasoning. Please, heaven help us if we are reduced to taking guidance from a self-delusional uneducated dolt like Caca on an issue as complex as immigration. Is CaCa so delusional that she believes the public is just sitting back and saying “Yes, we can’t move forward on the immigration issue until the cartooned one, Oh Mighty GaGa, speaks – right, and I’m just waiting for J-Z to expound on the difficulties of nuclear disarmament. Shut the F*** up and sing.
To Angelina Love:
This isn’t meant to be mean or rude, but does it get hard having to always defend her? Or having to offer explanations for her extremely “artistic actions”, that must be so difficult for us to understand?
I admire your tenacity, but this chick is unraveling on her own.
“And do not be afraid, because if it wasn’t for all of you LEGAL immigrants, this country wouldn’t have sh-t.”
I totally agree with Denise but I think the most important aspect of her post was the part about people “mindlessly following” what celebrities say instead of taking the time to adequately educate themselves about an issue. Based on that, I feel that people as a whole are implicitly culpable for blindly signing on to whatever campaign their fave celebrity is endorsing.
Read the law people. here’s the basics:
The heart of the law is this provision: “For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency…where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person…”lawful contact” means “the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he’s violated some other law. … The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop.”
All AZ is trying to do is stop crime. They are not that interested in the workers who come here to peacefully work. This is not a black and white, right or wrong issue. We need to do something about the border. We also need decent immigration reform, we have for a long time.
@GC What do you mean “you people” there are a lot of us here so please be specific. Are you saying we’re all showing our ignorance? If so, you should know that there are contradicting views/ideas in different posts. Are the capital letters supposed to promote your self importance? If they are, you’re doing it wrong. Had the law passed, it would have given state officials (police) the authority to stop anyone under the suspicion of being in this country illegally. As you said the law that is already in place is federal. Then again, I read this in the NYT. What is their agenda? My Tea Party Daily subscription was denied based on the color of my skin, so I guess you can say that my views are biased.
The attention freak can’t tell the difference between legal and illegal. And since when do we care what celebutards have to say when the very future of our nation is at stake?
OK Gaga I love your music and usually love your freakiness, but you don’t get it. IT’S ILLEGAL STUPID, it’s not racism. And it is not about not wanting these people here. It’s about how all the other millions of immigrants had to follow the law and become citizens of our country. I do not believe illegal immigrants should be “entitled” to any welfare benefits, no social security, nothing,no special treatment. Illegal’s have two choices; stay in their home country and fight to make it a better place, or move to another country – LEGALLY!!!
I say we boycott these crappy celebs that are ruining our youth and demoralizing our society!
I loooooove how people who think a woman with millions of fans, who was speaking to room of 15,000(ish) people that each paid several hundred dollars to see her, has no business voicing a simple straightforward opinion (which does not, by the way, violate any fact of this particular issue) – no, no one wants to hear what she thinks – but these people come to a gossip website and spout off on what’s on their minds. Haha!! Yeah, the world is really interested in YOUR thoughtful take on this matter. But Gaga should keep her freakin mouth shut. Oh, man. Classic.
I went and saw her show a couple of weeks ago and, while the stage props and costumes were awesome, she absolutely would not quit talking about all her pet causes. I expected a certain amount of that but she could have cut at least 30 minutes of talking out of her show and still talked plenty. It broke the music up too much and interrupted the flow of the concert.
@Radiowear No, it doesn’t. Lady Gaga didn’t say anything people should be upset about. So I expressed that. Its not even me defending her, its basic reading comprehension. Where does she tell people how they should feel or what they should do in the quotes? I don’t see it. Its like people get upset just because she is famous, really famous. Is that it? So its easy to defend whats right.
@Kaza: Two choices only? Illegal immigrants are not granted any type of financial aid, this means no welfare, medicare, 401K, SSI you name it. It is the US born children that are entitle to receive all things listed above. I can hardly say that working a less than minimum wage job for 10 hours is any kind of “special treatment” would you? It is a huge misconception to think that illegal immigrants are “fattening” up the welfare roll. To the contrary my sweet love, the most welfare beneficiaries are…dare I say it…white! Yes, they are white. I understand your sentiments for those who did the right thing and came to this country legally but I can argue that people crossing the border illegally are not gunning for your job. Unless you are a strawberry picker that is. In that case, my apologies.
@Lolav: That’s not true at all. There are programs that give to illegals food stamps, WIC, school lunch programs, etc. its not as many as some rave about, but it does happen. And there are illegals on welfare and Medicade and they get there using fake or stolen Social security cards. The law says that yes, but it is not being enforced.
To the person who responded to me (sorry, can’t read your name), I am talking to all the people who are talking about racial profiling and saying things that are not true about what the law actual says. Like Eric Holder, they clearly have not READ the law. And, oh yes, I am definitely saying it in my extreme self importance by capitalization. Oh, and finally, I’m probably saying it on my way to a Tea Party demonstration (not). Have a nice day!
@Oi That is true, but now you are taking me to a different topic. I was talking about non criminal illegal immigrants (is that an oxymoron, or what?) I mean immigrants who’s only “crime” was to come to this country illegally. You are talking about those who steel SS# in order to profit from another person’s misfortune. That my love, is something I am not arguing for.
Some people are despicable individuals… It’s truly disgusting! We are all the same just come in different shades, it truly saddens me the way some people think. My brother lives in AZ now he was stopped because of the color of his SKIN!!!!! He is an AMERICAN just like YOU but because he’s brown he was stopped. That to me is fuckin* gross! I could only imagine what “Illegals” have to go through just to work in this country to try to better themselves and provide for their families. I could only imagine the kind of stares and prejudice they receive here. Disgusting VILE human beings!
i’ll admit to be somewhat of a gaga stan, but whatev. she’s informed about the issues affecting people all over the place, which is more than i can say about a lot of people, celeb or not.
when she performed in my hometown, she made a lot of references to issues that affect many of her fans here (anti gay and anti choice). i thought it was awesome. if anything else, she doesn’t have her head stuck in her ass and isn’t removed from the real world like many famous/rich people.
@Janeth This should end the “it’s not racial profiling” argument. It is the epitome of racial profiling! I’m sorry your brother had to go trough that, it is sad to know that some of us would never be thought of as equal based on the color of our skin. Thank you for sharing, very well said.
@lolav: i also find it amusing when people are defending the arizona law and bring up illegal immigrants stealing SS#’s to get all these wonderful benefits from the government and yes, my father worked for DCF in Florida and witnessed first-hand how MANY “legal” US citizens use the system for their benefit… single mothers coming to the welfare office in “souped-up” cars with rims, gold chains in droves, really nice brand label clothes.. etc
and here was my dad, born in puerto rico, joining the army, raising his kids in army bases around the world with his stay-at-home wife, even picking up odd jobs just to stay off welfare
many people cheat the government and the system, not just the illegal immigrants… but it doesnt help that we are in the greatest economic recession in forever, and as such, the easiest targets for people’s rage will be the minorities and defenseless, immigrants and the poor
The keyword here is “illegal”. That by definition means the law is being broken. Instead of boycotting AZ for trying to fix a problem, why don’t we boycott movies, concerts, TV shows, etc. put on by people who advocate breaking the law?
Wow! Is that Madonna, she’s lookn young these days. 🙂
@janeth, so terrible to hear about your brother!
this is just a terrible situation all around
@lolav- I concur 100%. I am for an immigration reform. If it weren’t for my parents immigrating from their country escaping a deadly war that left thousands of ppl dead, I would not be here. However, what I am NOT for is ppl who come from different countries to gang bang, deal drugs, kill innocent ppl and steal ppl’s hard-earned money. Those should be sent to their countries and have their country’s government deal with them. I am all for legalizing those undocumented workers who come here hoping to realize their dreams, hoping to build better futures for themselves and their family, chasing the great american dream. I am all for hard-working undocumented workers who want to become legalized.
Btw, I was born and raised here in the U.S. and damn proud to be an American!
if any of you would ever see how people live in some developing countries, maybe you could understand their desperation to try to survive and feed their families.
FYI, you guys saying that people should come legally or change their countries, such as Kaza, I must testify that to be a legal immigrant you have to pay fees that go from 500 to 1000 dollars, and have a sponsor with at least 20000 dollars in their bank account, wait months for the process and renew it every 2years. Now you tell me hiw many people can afford it.
And you tell me how a person can change their country as well, cause you made it sound like a feasible endeavor. You can start by saying in how many ways youve changed yours. You really sound like someone that has no idea of what life is like in other places, how government in other countries exploit people, and how your own country exploits developing country to make your life easier, so you can complain about how people should live miserably without trying to do what they can to survive.
Lisa: I too am an American, born and raised in Tinseltown, CA, I am extremely proud to be American. My point is that people don’t get it they just don’t get that it’s NOT right to threat people like scum just because they don’t have papers. Do you know how much is cost to get your papers(to become a citizen)????? Do you think they have that type of $?
xxodettexx and Lisa, great posts. There are so many of us (second and third generation hispanic americans) who have families that do work hard and don’t abuse the system.
“My nine-year-old told me yesterday that she is “sick of the Lady Gagas because then the next person has to do something even worse to get noticed.”
@texasmom: excellent quote. your daughter sounds smarter than gaga!
xxodettexx, Lisa, grazi: You all make excellent points. I don’t want to over post (am I too late for that 🙂 so I’ll keep it sweet.
xxodettexx: You are absolutely right, I have to stand in supermarket line counting change to buy my groceries while the two young moms buy their name brand cereal with their benefit cards, toting around the Marc Jacobs bag I’ve been saving for. Going home to their gang banger boyfriend. Those are not illegal immigrants people!
Lisa: I agree, a reform should be in place. Obama, are you there?
Grazi:WOW! Someone who understands the complexity of the issue at hand. I admire you good sir/madam.
I love it when people exercise their right of free speech to spout off about how celebrities should shut up and have no right of free speech. Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.
Regarding legal/illegal immigration, yes it is very difficult, but I think that’s the point. No one’s exactly clamoring for mobs of people to come over here permanently, frankly. And really – what is our capacity for people? At what point should we lower the numbers allowed in? We can’t absorb EVERYONE. And shouldn’t other countries start their own internal reforms and economic development?
I am a legal immigrant from Mexico. After years of paperwork and back-breaking legal fees, my family and I are proud to call ourselves citizens.
While I am pro-immigration, I am ANTI-ILLEGAL immigration. Why? Because of the word “ILLEGAL”.
Yeh, there’s often sad stories behind many illegals but welcome to the human race, we’ve all got heartache. Kudos for giving it a try, but don’t try to bite natural born citizens and legal immigrants when you are called upon for breaking the law. I’m not specifically referring to this Arizona law because I live on the East coast and, honestly, don’t know the details.
And as for Ga-Ga, I could care less what she thinks. She should stick to singing at her shows. She can speak at political rallies if she wants to talk immigration or any other politics.
@malachais & Janeth- My parents came here and struggled to live comfortably. They NEVER got on welfare, they worked extremely hard. I remember when I was 4 or 5, we had a stool for a table, 10 plates, 10 utensils, no couch. We were poor, yet we never seeked welfare from the gov’t. My dad worked two jobs while my mom took care of my sister and me. My parents made sure the rent was paid on time every month and that we had clean clothes and food. I never had a Barbie and I understood from very little it was b/c my father needed to use the money to pay off the roof over our heads. As years passed they were able to provide more things for my sister and me. This would’ve been a much more sad situation had my parents stayed in their country. Hell, I probably wouldn’t even be here, with the war going on who knows.
I thank my parents for what they’ve given me and I wish ppl would just realize what immigrants go through. They leave their families behind, come to a foreign country, don’t know the language, no friends or family at times, but it doesn’t matter, as long as they realize the american dream.
jc126: “We can’t absorb EVERYONE.” Quick! Lets change the SofL tablet from “Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” to “This country is only capable of admitting (___) immigrants, all others, try another country” It’s so easy for you to say that because you live in this amazing country. Try going to the 57 countries where it is illegal to be GAY! (sorry to criss cross issues here, but I’m going somewhere) or the thousand other countries where you can not get an equal job if you’re a woman. Or the many other countries where you do not have the right to end an unwanted pregnancy (not even one that occurred through rape) On top of that those non criminal illegal immigrants who work here pay taxes and do not qualify for social programs.
If you want to come to America (though it’s so freakin awful why would anyone *dripping with sarcasm), do so through the PROPER CHANNELS, which does not include ILLEGALLY crossing the border and learn to speak English. You in some countries, they shoot you dead if you illegally enter. I’m so sick of the demonization of the United States. Go live where you think it’s better. THERE IS NO SUCH PLACE! End of rant.
My grandparents on my dad’s side were immigrants. LEGAL ones. Through Ellis Island from Italy. They worked, they scrimped, they saved, they learned English, they RESPECTED this country and didn’t use it as an ATM to send money back to “their country.” This WAS their country. They were citizens. My mother’s parents also immigrated here, LEGALLY. The whole point of immigration is to become productive citizens of the country. Yes it’s time consuming. Yes it takes money. And it does in other countries as well. Most of the illegal immigrants have no desire to become citizens. There should be immigration reform to allow for it to become slightly easier and relatively inexpensive to becoming a documented visiting worker. Something like this would give these men and women a little more protection than they have now. It would also have to deal with the employers who hire off the street and exploit and use these people. There has to be a happy medium.
@ Janeth: I’m with you on this one!
Also, people! Stop being hypocritical! You’re fine with celebrities endorsing stupid shit like acne products, their favourite facials, etc… but mad when they give a political opinions?! WTF! At least with a political opinion they are more likely to be honest for pete’s sake, that is, unless they’re getting paid for it.
Good for you Gaga (not a huge fan, but I appreciate her comment). She didn’t tell people what to do, she only showed support for the immigrants in this country, which WE ALL ARE, unless you’re native/indian and of the original people before the white colonizers came and stole this land. Sheesh!
Liana: Most of the illegal immigrants have no desire to become citizens. Are you kidding me? So those marching in DC, CA, and TX for a reform are just what? Working on their tans? Umm nope, they come here in search of a better life. That statement is ignorant and offensive to all those who want nothing more than to make this country great. Oh, have you seen the tablets on the SofL? They’re not there for decoration sweets.
meme: Have you heard Mrs. Palin speak? It’s not English my love. You can not refudiate that. English is not the official language of the US, stop trying to make it so. “You in some countries, they shoot you dead if you illegally enter.” No? Are you for serious? (can you recognize my sarcasm?) Those other countries were not established by immigrants. Yes my dear, your beloved founding fathers were immigrants. Legal or not, well that depends who you ask. Try asking a native American that same question.
@lolav: You may be correct about what is written on the Statue of Liberty. But please allow me to point out the location of the statue: New York Harbor, where thousands and thousands of immigrants came to this country LEGALLY. Those are the people that message is referring to. (It was also intended as a monument to America’s independance from the British Empire, but I digress). People like my grandfather, who emigrated here legally from Ireland, and my paternal grandparents, Jews who escaped from Russia and-again-came here legally.
Is it easier to hop the border and come here illegally because it’s ‘difficult’ to do it legally? Sure! Does that make it right? Nope.
I live in Arizona, it’s literally a war zone down here. There are hundreds of acres of our own land that United States citizens cannot use do to the violent drug gangs that have taken over…..ON OUR SOIL! I cannot visit the Organ Pipe National Monument, a gorgeous park for camping and hiking because of drug gangs.
The inaction of our own government on both sides of the aisle has created a situation that is desperate.
Please read the law.
Oh, have you seen the tablets on the SofL? They’re not there for decoration sweets.
_______________
Cut the shit with the “sweets” and the “dears.” It’s pompous and condescending and although you really do wear your level of condescension well, it’s not an attractive look on you. Grow up and accept that you are not the be all and end all of opinions. And contrary to your own beliefs, as you “hold court” in this thread, you are not always right.
You wanna live in the USA? Do it the legal way. If you can’t follow the laws to enter this country legally, how the hell can you be trusted to follow the other laws?
I’m basing my statement on the migrant workers who have come through an assistance office that I volunteered in. Perhaps I shouldn’t have generalized. When asked about becoming citizens, most said “no, we just want to work and then go home to our families.” So let’s come up with a way for them to do just that – legally.
Gia: My great grandad used to say this “Habian tres pozos, un tenia Irlandese, otr Italianos, y el ultimo tenia Mexicanos. Los Irlandesed e Italianos se ayudaron unos a otros a salir adelantes. Pero los Mexicanos se jalaban unos a otros para que todos quedaran abajo” As soon as you come out of the well you step on those who are trying to do what you’re doing. How easily do we forget where we came from. I don’t know what your story is but I’m sure someone had some compassion for you and your situation. Yes, all you can say is “welcome to the human race” Nice going kiddo.
Do you know how many illegal immigrants are mistreated, abused, killed, injured, etc trying to come to this country? Because of their illegal status, they are often ignored and the mistreatment is overlooked. Immigration reform is needed for the protection of these people. They are not afforded the rights and benefits of documented workers. I want immigration reform because I don’t want to hear the horror stories of boxcars of people being treated like cattle – separated from their families, the women raped.
Liana: I do not claim to always be right, I’m mature enough to understand and accept other views/ideas. With that being said, I also know that we can get carries away behind the safety of our keyboards. Would you say that to my face? Umm I think you’re classy enough to alter your behavior were you in my presence. Is that not so? Would I say what I said to your face? You betcha. But let’s not get crude and start with the curse words. It’s trashy, don’t you think? Ok, so you don’t like my sweets and dears, fine but if you have to point that out I think the argument has been lost on you. It’s not a black and white, there are a lot of gray areas when it comes to illegal immigration. You trying to make it black and white is silly. Cover up, your ignorance is showing.
Scarlet Vixen: The times have changed, your grandparents were persecuted (and I’m not comparing the horrible situation they escaped from, to those illegal immigrants have to face today) I want to be clear on this. What your grandparents escaped from is on a different level. At the same time, people who come here illegally are running away from something wether is their rigid gov, poverty, and hunger they are not coming here illegally by choice. It takes desperate circumstances to come to the US and seek shelter from this great country. Just like your grandparents did.
I would absolutely say what I said to your face, lolav. If you can’t handle the word “shit,” then sorry. I can’t handle your level of condescension for people who don’t agree with you. You start losing your credibility when you resort to condescending language. In any event, sorry, I don’t wish to continue this argument with you as I have to do a shift at the soup kitchen.
Liana: I agree with you on that your last post (the one before the soup kitchen comment) All of a sudden you don’t sound ignorant and immature. I guess we can strongly agree on one thing and know that we’re wrong on many others. Oh, I have a shift at the animal shelter that I need to get to. (I’m so NOT kidding on this one) It’s people who volunteer that make this country what it is, unless you’re doing it because a parole officer is telling you to. That would explain so much.
It sucks how these people are treated and without immigration reform, it will always be that way. THAT is the crux of my argument. Come here legally, become a citizen (or take the first steps), learn English (so that no one can claim they don’t understand your complaints) and get protection from those who would exploit and abuse.
NOW I have to dish out food to the needy. And bite me on the parole officer thing. LOL.
What I’m saying is that it is ILLEGAL and I disagree with it because of that. Guess what? There are legal residents here who have rights waaaaaaaay before the illegals–one of them is that their laws are enforced by their government.
There are thousands upon thousands of laws in this country. They are not all fair, let alone humane. We have the right to stand up and speak against these laws. However, can we wake up one day and decide by choice which ones we will abide by and break, simply because they do not benefit our needs? Yes, we can; however, we run the risk of penalties and/or consequences of that law…the same as illegals.
PS The illegals are NOT, I repeat, are NOT doing what I did as in your “well” example because I waited, paid, and did it legally. My feet stepped on or over NO ONE. Anyone was more than welcome to stand behind me and work, pray, and work. As far as my story, I worked in a shabby restaurant, babysat, and did laundry for years in order to pay our lawyer. I ate a lot of wild greens and food passed over from my neighbor’s fence. I even wore men’s shoes at one point, as every penny needed to be saved. My story is proof that it does not have to be done illegally…yes, it will take years and break the bank, but I can hold my head up high and say that I followed the law and am a citizen.
As far as my husband, children and I receiving compassion…we received a whole lot from new friends and neighbors who we are still close with to this day; yet this has nothing to do with the fact that we believe in LEGAL immigration.
Choosing to hop the border and suffer is a choice, not forced.
Thanks, kiddo.
I would like to say that I am very happy I read some of these comments.
I am being very honest in admitting that I haven’t been keeping up with all the immigration controversy. But reading some of these comments have helped me understand what the arguments are, and maybe helped me understand how I feel about it.
My family all immigrated here over a 50 year period legally. I am proud of that, and am grateful for it too! Had they not, I would be living somewhere in a mountain in the Caribbean! Which does not sound so bad, but I am glad they made it here and did so legally.
No one can win in this situation, which is the really sad bottom line. No matter what happens and what gets done, some will be set to lose.
@Liana, I am sorry but I absolutely agree with lulav. How can you seriously say that if immigrants cant respect the immigration law, they wouldnt respect the other laws? I mean, seriously. This is such an ignorant argument. I see illegal people here, working harder than any other american and doing what they can to have a better life without stealing, deceiving, killing. I am not saying that all of them are trusting people. Dont blame a whole group for the lack of morals of some, and dont speak so firmly that because you crossed the border of a country without papers you might as well be a thief or a killer or drug dealer.
and what you guys dont seems to understand is that legally immigrating to the US is something out of choice for a lot of people. They came here cause they have no perspectice of life, but to be accepted as a legal immigrant you have to prove you have a lot of money and a good job in your country, and pay expensive fees and find an american sponsor with a lot of money too. is it easy or even possible for a poor person who only wants to work in order to feed their family? In developing countries, just so you guys know, some people work the whole entire day, starting at 5am, and they still have no money for food. and sometimes, they cant even find theses jobs that exploit the hell out of you. in desperation, they come here to survive, not to kill or sell drugs (some yes, but they are certainly not one of these hard workers). You guys really try to make it sound like it is ones choice to come illegally, and it is not as simple as that.
and all of you guys saying that your grandfather or whatever came here illegally, i must remind you that you are talking about decades ago, and things got way harder than they used to be. Try to update your examples, ans let me know about starving people who came here legally in the last few years. I would enjoy to read that.
We are all immigrants. My family hasn’t even been here for 100 years yet, and our skin is white as snow. Unless you can claim to be 100% Native American, you have no more right to be here than anyone else! There’s plenty of room here for more people – in fact, our population would have gone down during the past decade if it weren’t for immigration. This would have killed our economy – if you think the recession is bad, you don’t want to imagine life with a population at below replacement levels.
If you agree with this law, you’re supporting institutionalized racism. End of story. No argument. The law is unconstitutional and discriminatory. It places an unfair burden upon legal and illegal residents alike – if you live in Arizona and don’t have your ID on you at all times, you can expect to be carted off to jail. That’s messed up. Have fun in your fascist Nazi state, Arizona. The rest of us don’t want our liberties infringed upon in such an insulting manner in order to round up hardworking people like cattle simply for trying to build a life in this country when legal avenues of citizenship for nonwhites are almost impossible to achieve.
This whole thing is a mess. The law in itself has some merit. No one should be able to get a free ticket in the States when so many people are paying to get here legally. At the same time every person from Arizona that I’ve talked to who supports it always mentions “Mexicans”. Is this a law against Mexicans (or Spanish speakers in general) or a law against illegal immigration? I’m not against the law I just question there ability to fairly inforce it.
@Shannon
The US still accepts immigrants that legally request entrance into the country. You’re comments are all fine and dandy. My family has been here well over 100 years not to mention my Native ancestry but that’s besides the point. You make it seem as if the borders are completely closed. They’re open, just open to people who have been vetted to come here. Why should anyone get a free pass when there are many who have been able to do what you believe is impossible to achieve. My only issue with the law is that it might be unfairly targeted against Hispanics when they aren’t the only group entering the US illegally.
The GaGa made a fool out of herself…so what else is new? And she and other “celebs” who believe themselves to be wise and prescient regarding the AZ law (among other things) will continue to do so until we tell them to shut up. Let it begin with me…shut up, Gaga.
I think it’s awesome that Lady Gaga took advantage of her right to free speech by expressing herself, inspiring conversations like the one here on CB. Regardless of where you stand on the issue, it’s good for ideas to be exchanged about it. Much better than talking about so-and-so’s cellulite or monstrous 5 pound weight gain or what have you.
Arizona…has its reasons…but the method is questionable.
I’ve really enjoyed reading everyone’s opinion on this one. I live on the east coast and don’t hear nearly as much about this issue as I should. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to make a comment; it’s given me some things to think about.
I’ll refrain from my usual comments about how over Lady Gaga I am. But, I will say that she has a right to her opinions. I’m not a fan of hers, but it’s nice to hear her talk about a real issue for a change and not about how she has the key to Mona Lisa’s smile hidden in her vagina.
@lolav I respect where you’re coming from, and you make many good points. But, I also wish you would lose the “sweets” and “dears”. I also find them condescending and distracting from your over all argument. Unless you are a kindly 90 year old woman with 50 cats running around your house, I would feel the same way about that in conversation in real life. I might not say anything aloud. But, you would see me cringe everytime one of those words left your mouth. I waited tables for years and have usually found that when speaking to strangers people reserve terms like “sweetie” to people they think are below them. For example, a customer might call me “sweetie” but will not call their business partner or casual date that. I’m not trying to attack you, btw, just explaining why someone may find you offensive.
If you agree with this law, you’re supporting institutionalized racism. End of story. No argument. The law is unconstitutional and discriminatory.
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I completely agree with this. The law is racist and way too Big Brother. Although law enforcement frequently considers the constitution annoying, I think it is important. With this law, we are no longer the country we were intended to be. It’s sick.
I can’t get into the whole immigration debate and only glanced through the comments because the whole thing seems so racist and ugly. It is true that more people entered legally 100-200 years ago, but it was FAR easier to get approved back in the day. It’s much harder to get in now.
I know Arizona and others like to classify illegal immigrants as lazy, criminals who want free services, money, housing, etc. It is all a big lie. They get nothing for free. In fact, they get to take jobs at way below minimum wage with no health insurance or sick days, but they get plenty of abuse from their employers. The vast majority are here to try to get their kids out of a hellish situation and into a better life.
Those who want to crack down on illegal immigration should favor going after these unscrupulous employers who hire primarily illegal workers, just so they can pay them crap, give them horrible working conditions and they won’t quit because they are afraid. It’s tantamount to slavery, actually. In the early days of this country, you could come over as an indentured servant for ten years and get granted citizenship. Now, they get to be treated like slaves for a lifetime with no recourse or protection. So unAmerican and ugly!
See? I really can’t talk about this subject!
I am not very smart when it comes to politics, and normally side with the law and find it very black and white.
But this issue bothers me because of how difficult it is to become a citizen.
Most of my family came over here illegally, they lived in poverty in Mexico. No running/clean water, electricty, living off of beans and tortillas.
My dad told me he got one outfit/pair of shoes a year. If he outgrew it, too bad.
I remember going to see my father get sworn in as a citizen when I was little. My aunt just now got her papers after over ten years of trying.
If it was easier the United States would have more tax paying citizens.
Because that’s all it boils down to isn’t it? People think that just because their families have been here longer they are better than the newcomers.
Last year I sent bags full of clothing to some children in my dad’s old town. Why wouldn’t I want them to have a better life?
As a registered independent, I vote based on the issues, not by party lines. I tend to be very liberal on immigration because I have worked very closely with Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal, and found them to be some of the hardest working, genuine and family-oriented people I’ve ever met.
However, I’m so tired of the hoards of “enlightened” liberals who are so quick to dismiss anyone that doesn’t agree with them as ignorant, uneducated buffoons. The immigration debate is multi-faceted and involves the well-being of millions of hard-working immigrants, as well as the integrity of the American economy. To reduce the debate to “if you agree with this law, you’re a racist” is irresponsible and disrespectful. Forums like these should be used to encourage intelligent political debate, not to regurgitate the same baloney spouted by one-sided media outlets.
All of you people talking about the poor immigrants coming here to pick strawberries need to look around and see the other jobs they’re taking. Look at construction sites, roofing sites, landscaping and many other jobs Americans will do. Hell they’d pick the strawberries if they would pay a decent wage. These people are here illegally. They complain about profiling but the truth is, they steal our identities, get free health care and send most of what they make back to Mexico. I don’t care how long my family has been here, coming in illegally is not right. Go to Mexico or any other country and see how well you do as an illegal. I know of people here in America that have lost jobs they’ve had for years because they can’t speak spanish. They come here illegally, won’t learn to speak our language and then wave the mexican flag in our faces. The bozo we have as president now has no interest in anything but helping muslims and the NAACP. Can’t wait for 2012 to vote him out. Something tells me lady gaggag knows nothing about this law or the trouble Arizona is having because of the illegals. Wake up America.
ILLEGAL. AS IN NOT LEGAL. AS IN AGAINST THE LAW???????? DOES THIS MEAN NOTHING ANYMORE?????? THEY ARE LEACHES, PARASITES, DRAINING OUR SYSTEM! DOES NO ONE CARE?
ILLEAGLES GET OUT! YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. YOU ARE NOT WANTED HERE. COME HERE PROPERLY OR GET DEPORTED. IT IS THE LAW. NO OTHER COUNTRY WOULD PUT UP WITH THIS NONSENSE AND NEITHER SHOULD THE USA. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO BREAKING OUR LAWS.
She wore a giant red lobster on her head. Who, outside of The Cookie Monster, would be able to take her seriously? She’s such a flaming joke, but it’s sad how she’s buying into her own hype and believing that anyone outside of the local nut house would care what she thinks. Gaga, take heed of the old saying: “It’s better for people to only think you’re a moron, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt….”.
Oh please, you have no right telling people to get out. Pick up a book and read. Except for Native Americans – who coincidentally many latinos are descended from – we are all technically “illegals” and are not the native peoples of North America. Anyhow, Lady Gaga would have made a bigger (and better) statement had she chose to boycott Arizona altogether. Actions speak louder than words Gaga…
@kimble – I agree with your comment and thank you as I live in AZ. The immigration issue is tossed around like a football every so often to take our mind off where the real problems are, like corporate accountability and tinkle down economics. Lady Gaga can’t address all of those things on stage at one show, but it’s cool she performed in Phoenix and gave a shout out for our constitutionally protected civil rights! 😉
Not everyone in AZ is a racist, or for building a fence, or having an open border – they are extremes – and sadly exploited by some to foster division, get publicity, get elected, and turn our state into a battleground for their own interests. Many people here do want comprehensive immigration reform, increased border/law enforcement where necessary, and for our elected officials to focus on job creation and stabilizing Arizona’s economy, which sucks right now. We cannot do this by racial profiling and spending ALL of our energy focusing on ferreting out illegal immigrants, many of which have been driven out in the past few years, and have paid taxes that they will never recoup – fake SS#’s anyone? it still goes into someone’s pocket! Because we have a limited number of skilled positions, until we get most of the citizens who are unemployed to work in positions that are usually classified as unskilled (i.e. labor), AZ needs a certain amount of immigrants to fill these positions. Businesses build their profits on lower labor costs and they will not give that up anytime soon, especially if there are barely any consequences for breaking the law – or incentives to pay wages and/or provide benefits that are are more equitable with our economy today.
It would certainly help AZ, and the US, if more of our elected officials and business leaders had a reasonable approach as your comment suggests.
So if you commit a crime and you’re proven to be in the country illegally they chuck you out?
What we wouldn’t do for some of that in the UK – it’s becoming nearly impossible to deport convicted murderers, religious-hatemongers and multiple rapists from our shores in case they stub their toenail walking off the plane at the other end and this infringes on their “human rights”!
joe, kristen, and gma: Arguing like complete idots: you’re doing it right.
And since I don’t argue with idiots this is where it ends. You capitalization highlights your bigotry and ignorance. Read the Constitution and get back to me when you have more than capital letters to fight with.
DetRiotgirl: I’ll try to tone it down, but I’m fully aware that I’m condescending. It’s done on purpose. Thanks tho.
Does the constitution condone breaking laws?
Lolav, I think the whole idea here is to give opinions. If someone doesn’t agree, bashing & acting superior isn’t the answer. Opinions are opinions. Calling someone an idiot doesn’t change a thing.It just suggests that all you’ve got is anger to fight with, no substance. And, from reading your posts, I think you’ve got more :0).
I could call you an idiot for suggesting that the US Constitution says it’s okay to break laws, because it clearly doesn’t–this topic is about illegal immigration, no? However I won’t because I respect your beliefs, as well as the others on this post.
Kristen, Joe…this country is built on immigrants. We would not be the superpower we are today…we wouldn’t have the Constituion, for god’s sake, without them. We would have lost every war. I’m just taking a shot in the dark here, but your ancestors are immigrants, too (unless you are a pure Native American?). Are they leaches and parasites as well? My Irish ancestors were treated like crap and wrongfully called such names. Yet they contributed to American society in countless ways. I’m guessing that todays legals and illegals will do the same.
The illegals come here illegally because they want a life. Elsewhere, they have no life. Are they any less people because of that? Would you just sit there and look at your family suffer endlessly, or would you take a chance and cross the border?
My opinion? We need immigration reform. Something has to be done to help citizens AND immigrants. Immigrants should still be let into this country legally. Our whole backbone exists because of that creed. Illegal immigration, in my opinion, is not tolerable. However I don’t hate or loathe illegals, as they are doing what I would do if in their shoes. I don’t think that illegal immigrants are automatically thieves, rapists, and criminals…but I do think that if you’re going to come into a country and reside here, the law should be respected from the get go.
As you can see from my opinion, I respect BOTH sides of the fence here, no pun intended. I feel torn, as I’m sure many others do.
I for one will boycott Arizona even if nobody asked me to. You know, I can tell racism when I see it… I hope all people in favor of the law will get something legally taken away from them one day or another… and feel the pain. And maybe GROW UP.
I think the point most people are missing is that the law states that officers can look at papers only after they’ve stopped someone for doing something that is against the law i.e. getting pulled over for speeding, or catching someone stealing something or selling drugs.
Also, illegal immigrants are breaking the law. Period. What is the argument against that? “We’re all immigrants” But are we all ILLEGAL immigrants? No.
My ancestors were likely African (though I don’t know exactly when my family came over here due to them not keeping good records), some kind of white and Native American. I was born here legally to parents who were born here legally to grandparents who were born here legally (outside of that, I don’t know).
It is not my fault that someone else was born in a crappy country in a crappy situation. There will always be suffering. There will always be people who die of starvation and there will always be people who get the shit end of the stick. We can’t fix the world’s problems. We can only attempt to fix ourselves. The US has poor, starving, desperate CITIZENS that need to be dealt with first.
*EDIT*: The word is LEECHES. Not leaches.
grrlgrace: The country was built on LEGAL immigrants and African slaves who were brought here against their will.
Lourdes: Oh superior and clever you! No, the Constitution does not condone breaking laws. It did however once said that women were not allowed to vote, it also said that African Americans were worth 3/5 of a white wealthy man, it also said that they were property and not people. I am not going to state my credentials and qualifications because anyone with access to the web can obtain this information. I could also go on and on with details on the many things that have been Amended in the US Constitution that were thought out as illegal at one point. Furthermore, I will say that the Constitution does not mention the word “citizen” when it gives rights to life, liberty, and the right to be secure in their person and property. The Constitution uses the word “person” you do not have to be legal to be a person. Last I checked we were all “persons” regardless our socioeconomic and immigration status.
grrrlgrace: Consider that this is not my first post. At some point one grows tired of having to explain the basics. I agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, and we all have freedom of speech, thanks to those wonderful Amendments. Me calling them idiots was my way to vent out my frustration. Calling them idiots is not helping my cause, but does it feel good? You betcha. I know I shouldn’t have, but what can one do?
I believe this law is simply the same as any other citizen who has to carry around i.d. it is a law (i think) that you have to have identification on you at all times. Illegal or not if you are pulled over, stopped on the street they will ask for i.d. if you are unable to produce i.d you will most likely face repercussions.
You are so acidic that it’s pathetic. And, it’s hysterical that my one question produced such a rant from you…and not even a good rant, at that.
Go scratch your as* LolaVEEEE
Tried to be nice, but oh well. Wow I’d hate to be her kid at the dinner table…spill your milk and whoosh! Rant LV style. Some people need to freak out to get their point across. Glad I’m not sitting next to you at community college dear, sweetie. My ear would be hanging off.
PS-a second ago you were telling everyone to look to the constitution for guidance, now you’re on the defensive and pointing out its weaknesses. Make up your mind if you can.
@Hamm–yes, this country was built by African Americans and IMMIGRANTS. For one to say that they were all legal is quite far-fetched. If you have read anything past 8th grade history, you would know that illegal ships from Europe were fairly common during the Ellis Island years. Not everyone had an acceptable health status, let alone the money, to come legally.
Lourdes: Oh, you were seriously asking that question? My apologies, I though you were being sarcastic. I really can’t communicate with people who have to resort to “Go scratch your as* LolaVEEEE” what a stupid thing to say, Lourdes.
LOL, lourdes.ignore her.she’s obviously off her meds.
Who gives a flying fuck what this moron has to say? She wouldn’t know reality, politics or immigration law if they jumped down her throat and flew out her ass. Screw Lady whatever her name is. She won’t be around this time next year and some other boob will have replaced her and the public will be asking “Lady WHO?”
if you people had your way and the illegal aliens were gone tomorrow, this country’s economy would fall apart. so shut the hell up and try to get the facts straight before you repeat ignorant assumptions.
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