I’m old enough to remember how out-of-touch the royal family was in the 1980s. Yeah, I was just a kid (a toddler for the early 1980s), but I still have vivid memories of the early days of Prince Charles and Princess Diana’s marriage. One specific memory: everybody making a big deal about Diana being a virgin when she married Charles. In this age of promise rings and mainstream evangelicalism, it seems like we’ve been talking about virginity for a while, but I think for many people in the 1980s, coming out of the free-love free-for-all of the 1960s and 1970s, talking about Diana’s virginity was a crusty throwback, impossibly dated. But still, it was discussed, and many “traditional” royalists believed that a royal bride must be a virgin on her wedding day. No mention of the royal grooms, by the way.
So why is nobody making a big deal about Kate Middleton’s presumably long-gone virginity? That is the focus on some larger discussions in Britain and America. Kate and William lived together at university, and they’ve been sharing homes, apartments and beds for nine years, on and off. More than that, it’s widely believed that neither Kate nor William were virgins when they got together. In this day and age, does it matter?
The once hidebound royal family seems to have caught up with Britain’s tolerant public in the three decades that separated Prince Charles’ marriage to Diana Spencer from the wedding of their first born.
Few people – royal or otherwise – seem bothered by the fact that Prince William and his fiancee, Kate Middleton, have been living together off and on during the course of their eight-year romance, which began in university days.
That’s a marked turnaround from the days preceding Charles and Diana’s 1981 marriage. At that time, there was a general expectation that Diana would not have dated before her engagement to the heir to the throne, and her own uncle came out publicly to declare her a “bona fide” virgin.
The more modern approach gives many royal watchers hope that William, 28, and Middleton, 29, will fare better in their marriage than Charles and Diana, whose very public marital breakdown tarnished the image of the royal family.
William, said royal expert Dickie Arbiter, is “his own man.”
“He’s made his own space and he decides what he wants to do and when he wants to do it,” Arbiter said. “The fact that William and (Kate) have had a relationship for eight years speaks for itself.”
William’s decision to live with his fiancee has been met, in general, with a shrug. The British public seems comfortable with the royal family having updated its unwritten behavior codes to bring them more in line with widely held social values.
“We live in a modern age and people do all sorts of things before they settle down,” said Keith Morley, 34, an engineer from Birmingham. “It’s probably best that they lived together before making a commitment.”
Some historians say it’s about time the royals shed their prudishness about the past of new entries into their family. When Charles and Diana wed, his history of dating was not an issue. Charles may well have wanted to marry girlfriend Camilla Shand, but she was not seen as an appropriate choice because she had had several previous boyfriends. She became Charles’ second wife decades later.
Deborah Cohen, a historian at Northwestern University in Chicago who specializes in modern Britain, says the failure of Charles and Diana’s marriage apparently convinced the royal family that its rigid standards were backfiring.
“After two decades of scandal, I think it’s the royal family recognizing that to be normal is to their advantage,” she said. “It’s a canny refashioning of the image. There is no longer an investment in being anachronistic, or a public expectation that they ought to be harkening back to a different era of sexual politics.”
Royal attitudes toward sexuality have never been based on fixed rules but rather unwritten conventions. The code of behavior has evolved – slowly – over the centuries as social values change. It is the monarch who sets the tone, so the views of Queen Elizabeth II have prevailed for nearly six decades.
Practical concerns, more than squeamishness about sex, were behind the royal family’s historic concerns over the sexual status of a bride joining the royal family, Cohen said, because there were fears that a princess carrying another man’s child could bring an illegitimate heir to the throne. This was particularly important before paternity testing.
By Diana’s time, Cohen said, the issue had come to represent a yearning for lost innocence as Britain – with Europe’s highest divorce rate – was gripped by a perceived social breakdown.
A spokesman for Prince William, who refused to be identified because of royal policy, said palace officials would not comment on whether attitudes have changed, preferring to leave that role to others.
[From Huffington Post]
Personally, I think it makes for a stronger relationship and marriage when you know you are sexually compatible, and I don’t have a problem with William and Kate’s sexual relationship, nor do I have a problem with Kate *gasp* having previous lovers before William. That being said, I think this HuffPo piece doesn’t bring up one of the main reasons why the royal family seems so “stuffy” about these things – they are technically the “defenders of the faith” of the Church of England. While they are not members of the clergy, a member of the royal family “living in sin” and having a premarital sexual relationship is still verboten, technically speaking. Religious slut-shaming! But whatever. My biggest problem is that people tended to expect virginity from the brides, but the male royals were expected to “sow their royal oats.”
Oh, and here’s an interesting tidbit: Kate Middleton invited two of her ex-lovers to the wedding! William invited four of his exes. Sluts.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Speculation that Kate and William are not virgins is just that, no factual evidence has been offered to the contrary. I choose to believe they are both extremely disciplined people who have kept their dong-biscuits in the hallowed vault at Camelot (the clanging of armored strippers dancing on the round-table not withstanding).
Virginity has high value – for sexually insecure men.
Well,William first noticed his attraction to Kate when she wore a see through dress and that is how their romance started. I’m pretty sure it is safe to say that they shagged soon after that.
I’ve only known ONE couple who married when they were both still virgins.
Considering the marriages of Wiliam’s parents, aunts, and uncles, I don’t think the family will be casting stones at Kate for not being a virgin. Besides they have been living together for years. If it was an issue they would have demanded she move out.
The idea of a ‘virgin’ groom is really creepy. Lol
Thats even worse than a 29 year virgin bride.
In the old days, ideally, the future Queen would not have been with other men. I’m not sure it mattered if she lost here maiden status to her future husband.
Obviously Kate is not a virgin…but at the same time I doubt she has slept with that many people other than William…if any at all.
no, I don’t care, I also don’t plan on watching the wedding of people I don’t know and never will!
I think they idea of the virgin bride was so that before the days of DNA testing you had proof that your first born at least was yours, especially with the inheritance of titles and lands etc.
You have to remember that Diana was only 19, so her being virgin was much more likely anyway than a 29 year old today is. Plus from what my mother says even in the early 80s attitudes to sex were still conservative in the UK.
virginity is so overrated.
you really have to test-drive before you tie yourself down to anyone; with none-whatsoever to limited experience, you could really miss out on a good physical fit and not know it. quite sad, really.
or maybe not; this will be one instance where ignorance is bliss.
Royal sluts!
I only clicked because I couldn’t believe it was a serious question.
Does her virginity matter? NOTHING to do with these inbred welfare recipients matters.
I don’t care about anything to do with her.
I would rather read 100 stories about Paris Hilton’s crotch rot than suffer through another story about the royal wedding.
The entire concept of royalty, that of being “superior by birth” and therefore privileged and entitled, has been used for centuries to oppress, control, subjugate, cheat, murder and rob from the masses.
Royalty should in no way be celebrated or respected, but should only be something we read about in our history books.
I couldn’t care less about anyone else’s sex life or lack thereof, when and if they have done it, how they do it, why they do it. How awful to have every single thing about you speculated about by people with nothing better to do. I hope Kate has a thicker skin than Diana did. She is going to need it.
#14 – I’m in total agreement!!!!
What’s Cerritos inviting exes to your wedding even if you remained friends. I think it’s tacky, but probably because my cousin invited several of her random conquests from high school to her wedding. It was weird. On another note, it is still so strange to see Kate wearing Diana’s ring. Bittersweet.
And what the hell is Cerritos?? It should say “creepy is.” stupid autocorrect!
The bottom picture is charming. So often the royals look so aloof or guarded, that it is lovely to see such a sweet photo.
Honestly, it doesn’t matter whether she is a virgin or not. What would be tragic is if these two had not slept together in 9 years! Just don’t be too sure that she had sex with the other lads before William. She knew what her “job” was when she followed William to St Andrews.
If she starts to douche with Miracle-Grow, she should be intact for the wedding night
I don’t care if she is a virgin or not. I care about the fact that she was marketed by her mother to end up where she is now, and this will give me a bitter taste in my mouth for an eternity. But at the end I wish all the best to William.
@M….
Maybe this is why she bothers me so much. I honestly can’t stand the sight of her – she just strikes me as utterly conniving and manipulative, completely lacking any sort of drive to better the lives of anyone other than herself/her family’s status.
That said, has she had work done? She appears, physically, to be more attractive than she used to be, despite still (likely) being vapid on the inside.
Aha! I just realized who she reminds me of in history – it is the conniving nature of Anne Boleyn and her family!!
I STILL don’t know why the issue of Diana’s virginity was such a big deal. Come on, it was the 1980s, not the 1880s!
But her family (her UNCLE no less!) made a gigantic public announcement about it, thus elevating it to a media event. I suppose they wanted to get the first shot in, in case some former lovers came forth, but it was a ridiculous thing to do.
I’d be worried if she was a virgin… she’s nearly 30!
My my how times have changed with the royals since the days of Diana.
@N – You are right Kate’s family is like the Boleyns. Very creepy, especially for this day and age. But it is incredible that she suceeded, especially since she isn’t that pretty. Her sister too is a social climber.
About the comments: What is wrong w/ being a virgin? Really, it’s creepy for a guy to be a virgin when he gets married or a 29 yr. old woman to be one? Now we’re judging people for not screwing around? So how many men should I sleep w/ before I’m 29, one, 5, 30? Nice, no wonder we’re having the friggin teen moms shoved in our faces. I guess I should probably run along and find some random to f*ck.
its not like shes a disney princess
@lcat – the fact that you perceive someone who is not a virgin as someone who is “screwing around” with “random” people is ridiculous, and shows that you believe in an outdated virgin/whore dichotomy where a woman is either pure as the driven snow or a dirty tainted prostitute; either way, her identity is tied to her virginity and there’s no in-between. I would like to welcome you to the year 2011, where women are seen as important for much more than the status of their hymens. Just because virginity is no longer an important concept does not mean people are being irresponsible – they’re just more open about their decision making and taking charge of their sex lives. Some of us would prefer not to have sex with virgins because it means they lack experience in pleasing a partner. That is a valid concern.
Sex is healthy. Sex is normal. Sex is human nature. Sex is not shameful or dirty. Get over it.
geez #14 that IS a total dose of truth !! I tend to agree with you, although I do think that the royal family is held on to as some sort of national symbol by some people in their country… i dunno, i wouldn’t want them as my national sense of identity, i think they tend to behave rather ridiculously… but look how darn exciting all those peeps are, with their silly mugs and books and keychains and sù%*µ…
and yeah, the thing about the concern over diana’s virginity = just disgusting. so anti-woman, because it’s clear he wasn’t a virgin… and what the hell did that mean or change or anything for them? barf, yick.
“her own uncle came out publicly to declare her a “bona fide” virgin.”
Creepiest thing I’ve heard all day.
Ack. The fact that they both invited numerous exes to the wedding says a lot about the manner in which they date….or should I say ‘social network’……how romantic *just saying*
Virginity should not be the issue here, just make sure they both get tested.
Some marriages have fallen apart even when the individuals were virgins until union (many look to explore their sexual desires after marriage) I don’t condemn anyone who do or do not exercise celabacy, it’s a personal choice
Who cares? Anyone who’s concerned about the fact that either one of them is not a virgin is IMO a weirdo.
Shannon: I’m pretty certain I didn’t say how I percieve non virgins, you inferred it. I do not think that there is anything wrong w/ sex or premarital sex. I do however think it’s messed up that some ppl are treating virginity as a negative thing. I realize that most people have premarital sex and that it is not always w/ “randoms”, obviously. So, chill out. I’m not making any kind of negative reference to whatever sexual practices you may or may not take part in. I was merely stating that virgins who aren’t in a loving relationship shouldn’t feel that they have to have sex w/ “randoms” just to be “normal” and not be “creepy”. If you would rather sleep w/ someone w/ experience than that is entirely your choice, but virgins shouldn’t feel the need to have sex to measure up to your standards of normalcy. I do appreciate your condescending advice that I enter the year 2011. I’m very sorry that I have offended you to the extent that you feel the need to be so rude.
Who gives a rat’s a$$?!
I was a virgin when I got married at age of 23. My son was 4 at the time.
The issue of Charles being required to marry a virgin was a huge problem for him. He was in his 30s, and by then all of the women his own age were no longer virgins anymore, and they all had had significant relationships with other men before him.
So he wound up marrying a 19-year-old Diana, who was 12 years younger and not mature enough to handle the pressure of being his wife. So ironically, marrying a virgin wound up ruining Charles’s chances of having a successful marriage.
William is so lucky to have met Kate when they both were young, so Kate has no ex-husband or ex-fiance in her past. And they have had the chance to grow up together without the hypocrisy of having to pretend they were not sexually active.
To #12 LOL at your inbred..welfare recipient comment! Charles & Diana’s marriage was doomed from the start because Charles is an old-school royal moron with a huge sense of entitlement. So is Prince Andrew. Those days are waaay over. As an Australian I don’t want Charles to be our king…make way for William. I hope he and Kate are truly happy and have a wonderful long life together. The virginity “issue” is a non-issue. It’s not an issue for Hot Harry LOL. Kate sure played her cards right to snap him up – William could have had his pick of wife.
Oh my god, if I have learned anything in my 53 years here on earth…it’s that you need to be sexually compatible with a man before you marry or even date him for any length of time!!
I learned that lesson the hard way in my marriage. When that ended, I made sure the next dude I dated/ended up with was someone who sent me to the moon and back every time! That is what keeps a relationship solid.
I am so glad that this couple has already sealed the deal and explored each other for these 8 years, in physical and emotional ways. It bodes very well for their married happiness.
Virginity is for insecure men who want to dominate and control a woman. Ugh, that is so oppressive and degrading.
Not even 30 and already his hair is thinning. Poor thing.
There was also a big deal made about the fact that Sarah Ferguson wasn’t a virgin, and had even (gasp) lived with someone before marriage. But considering how disastrously things went last time they insisted on a virgin, I think they’ve decided to just look the other way from now on.
English Royal Family = petri dish of inbreeding
@rissa – lols from your comment!
@confuzzle – very true. Seems royals play in open fields but usually stick to the very small pool of upper crust when it comes to mating, it’s a good thing William is bringing in some new blood to the family.
“The entire concept of royalty, that of being “superior by birth” and therefore privileged and entitled, has been used for centuries to oppress, control, subjugate, cheat, murder and rob from the masses.”
As opposed to Attila the Hun, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, Saddam Hussain, Colonel Gaddafi, Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin & George W. Bush, who were all beacons of benevolence!
Brits had a very Victorian view of sexuality up until the mid- late 80’s so the talk of Diana’s virginity reflected the values of the time.
I don’t think that the royals have any moral or religous authority anymore in the UK. they are expected to represent charity, tourism and be figureheads for the country. Anything else and their relevance would be called into question and they don’t want that!
Whore!
just had to get it out of my system.
I have a bigger problem with Charles being divorced, yet he will become the head of the Church of England. Either Charles should not become head of the church when he takes the throne, or he should not become king at all when Elizabeth dies. Sometimes people don’t meet certain job requirements, and in this case, I don’t think Charles meets the requirements to be head of the church. While I personally don’t care about divorce, the church — on paper at least — does. If he becomes the head of the church, it will be sheer hypocracy. He should have more respect for his church than that, and voluntarily step aside.
@benny
The Church of England doesn’t give a sh*t: http://www.churchofengland.org/our-views/marriage,-family-and-sexuality-issues/divorce.aspx
So if you don’t think Charles should be King, you’ll have to find another reason.
I’ve got some shocking news for you (well, at least it was shocking to my mother and me) a lot of those alleged virgin brides from back in the 50’s and before, they weren’t virgins. My parents got married in 1959 and, about 10 years ago, my mom got together with her old girlfriends (they were all in each other’s weddings) at which time the other women shocked my mother by letting her know she was pretty much the only “good girl” from their high school that really was a virgin when she got married.
N! I have been saying that for ages! She even sort of looks like Natalie Dormer from the Tudors. Everything about the Middletons screams Boleyn.
JulieM – exactly. Obviously she’s not a virgin but I don’t think for one minute she has slept with anyone but William. The two lovers she invited are boys she met at Marlborough (high school sweethearts). Waity, despite her conniving, has always been the shy type. I cannot see her sleeping with anyone and the includes William.
Caz – no he couldn’t. All of the women he wanted turned him down. In fact there’s a Vanity Fair article detailing the list of women that didn’t want him. Isabella Calthorpe being the most famous. Charles wanted William to marry her, William wanted her but she turned him down. She wanted to be an actor. And she has her own title (her family are Dukes) and her own money.
Most of the women William wanted were wealthy or titled, so they didn’t need him. Kate was the only girl that didn’t have a title and didn’t come from money (her family is worth 5m but 3m is their home. She’s not as wealthy as it was made out to be. Most of it is coming from being connected to William).
The only one who cares about her virginity is her hymen.
She’s almost 30 years old….if she were, it might be of concern.
That one allows the thought of these two bony horsefaced freaks having sex with each other to enter one’s mind should be cause for concern.
My parents will be married 47 years in August, and even though they both were engaged to others before they got married (apparently it was common back then), in MY mind, they were virgins when they got married, and only had sex 3 times, when me and my 2 sisters were conceived!
I know, I know, but who REALLY wants to think about their parents doing It? 🙂
Succession can now be ensured by a DNA test instead of a chastity belt…you’ve come a long way baby.
A bigger issue is the one of Royal Leeches, and now the Middleton family of hanger ons. I notice Pippa is now being towted around as marriage prospect for an Earl, Duke etc. Common, she wouldnt get a second look in most clubs nor would her sister. This whole thing is seriously overrated. Who really cares about a girl that landed a man by prancing around in a see through dress.
If you couldn’t control yourself before marriage, will you be able to ignore the temptation to sleep around after marriage, as a husband or wife?