Oscar Pistorius appeared in court this morning in South Africa to hear the reading of the formal charges against him. Early on Valentine’s Day, police came to Oscar’s home in gated community of Pretoria, South Africa after neighbors reported hearing gunshots. They found Oscar’s girlfriend of a few months, Reeve Steenkamp, bleeding from four gunshot wounds to head and body. She was declared dead soon after. Oscar was immediately taken into custody and arrested for murder, and he stayed the night in a jail cell at the police station, awaiting today’s hearing.
In court, the prosecutors (sidenote: I apologize for using such American terminology, it’s just how I think and write) told the judge that they were pursuing a charge of premeditated murder against Pistorius. When he heard the charge, Pistorius reportedly broke down in tears and the judge told him he could sit down, which he did. The judge also put off a bail hearing until next week, when the lawyers could be more prepared. Until then, the judge agreed that Oscar wouldn’t be put in general population of a jail and that he could stay in a jail cell at the police station. The bail hearing is set for Tuesday.
Oscar’s family, management and lawyer issued a statement: “The alleged murder is disputed in the strongest terms.” It also said that Pistorius “would like to send his deepest sympathies to the family of Reeva.”
As for all of the other stuff… I’m actually glad that the South African police and the prosecutors are coming out of the gate with such a strong pushback against the story that this was some kind of “accidental” shooting. But Sports Illustrated has an extensive piece on how Oscar is a major celebrity in South Africa and many already believe that this might have been an accident, and that many are sympathizing with him.
In 2009, Oscar was arrested (and he spent the night in jail) for assaulting a 19-year-old girl in his home. There was a party, and he ordered her to leave, and as she left, he slammed the door on her leg. The charge of assault was eventually dropped. I don’t know if this was Oscar’s only history of violence or if there are more shoes to drop. We’ll see. What is becoming clearer in the first 24 hours of reporting is that Oscar is a man who loves guns and he had a hair-trigger when it came to self-defense.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Pacific Coast News.
There are more and more reports coming out about how he had a bad attitude and was a real Jekyll and Hyde character, particularly when alcohol was involved.
Ugh.
I feel so bad for the athletics community, particularly the Paralympic movement. He was such a huge spokesperson for their cause, this has got to be a major blow for them.
RIP Reeva.
+ 1
WORD. I work in the field, was at the games and this has just been a massive blow to the momentum London achieved.
Daily Mail said she was shot four times through bathroom door. More story to come I think.
I just hope the truth comes out soon.
What the DM failed to mention was that the police had been called by neighbors two hours earlier because Oscar and the woman he killed were having a huge, screaming fight. Knowing that she was confirmed to be in the house at 1 a.m. and shot dead in the bathroom at 3 a.m. makes the whole ‘I was surprised’ story seem like BS.
It would be easy for the police to find out if she left because gated communities track all comings and goings closely.
The media started running that burglar story though. The media. Not the police. Not him. Not even oscar’s camp. His father very early on said it was too early to even speculate and that they didn’t even know what happened, so it’s not like the story was pushed by his team, his lawyers or PRs. One idiotic local newspaper claimed that and then everyone posted the same thing.
People need to stop assuming that is his defense when a trial has not even began and never has that been his official stance.
My point was more that the DM is cherry picking what it includes in its coverage. The same source they pulled today’s story from made it clear that the police had already been called out two hours earlier by neighbors.
To me, that establishes that she was already known to be in the house that evening. And, more importantly, he KNEW she was in the house when he shot her in the head, chest, pelvis and hand while she was in the bathroom.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-shot-reeva-through-door-reports-1.1470916
Yeah I agree that lots more is to come out. Two pieces of info I am interested in is was she staying the night at his house, and was the bathroom door locked when she was shot, that would tell all ie: he knew she was in the house and she was trying to get away from him by locking herself into another room. The answer to those two questions would shed a lot of light on accident versus premeditated murder.
Edit: just as I posted I saw you comment Mich, thanks for the info
Quick question to any lawyer/legally savvy people – how do you differentiate between premeditated/accidental murder and manslaughter?
My legal knowledge is extremely limited, and whilst I’m not surprised at the murder charge, I am at the intent to charge him with premeditated murder. Doesn’t that require a degree of planning, etc? Not that I would somehow find that an impossibility, but with reports of the pair having a blazing row before the shooting, it’s coming across as a very impulsive act.
I’m interested if Pistorius himself called emergency services. You know, police because there was an intruder or because he shot an intruder, or an ambulance because he accidentally shot his girl, or an intruder.
With the info we have right now it seems as if up until the arrival of the police called by the neighbours after the gunshots, no other aid was asked for at his house.
The neighbors called the police the first time they heard loud arguing and again 2 hours later when the shooting began. He never called the police nor he claimed it was ever an accident or mistaken identity, at least not accordin to the police. He never told the police he thought someone broke in because the police said that is not the version they had (assuming they mean from him), and I don’t get how it made the newspaper but people need to stop repeating it.
I doubt he would seriously claim that nonsense when the police had already been at his home over a disturbance and knew Reeva was at his place.
This has never been his story. What will his story be, I cannot possible imagine. But no way he will say he thought it was a burglar.
That dumbass story, man. I don’t get why it was propagated like this. His own father doesn’t know wtf happened. His camp has been silent regarding this.
The ineptitud of the media and wanting to be first enrages me. How about being accurate. Everyone runs with one bullsht rumor not ever confirmed by the police or his family. And people just repeat it.
@Amelia
I’m not too familiar with the SA legal system, but in the UK, you’d be charged with murder and convicted for manslaughter (either vol or involuntary) based on how successful your defence is… Basically, whether you lost control, you were provoked, diminished responsibilty due to other underlying cognitive issues. It all depends on the circumstances, but generally while actus rea (the physical act of murder) is present, mens rea (the mental component, the planning, the desire, the intention) is either entirely absent or diminished. I imagine “premeditated murder” in SA is akin to murder in the first degree in the US/Canada, which is the most serious, and basically murder in the UK- you have both actus rea and mens rea. Manslaughter gets you a lesser sentence (or hospitalization if you plead insanity or diminished responsibility), while murder would get you life imprisonment/death penalty etc.
@Sis
The police have said that the person who called them was NOT Pistorius. Presumably it was one of the neighbours.
@ christina
yes I know the neighbours were the ones who called first.
Him calling for help after the shooting of his girl would show remorse, wanting to undo the action (which seems the angle his lawyers are working) and because of that in my mind it shows a lot that he didn’t call at all.
I’m not sure how it works over there, but even here this murder charge would have the potential to be pleaded out as 2nd degree murder or criminally negligent homicide. If he shot her through the door, unless it was clear he was aiming for her body, a very good attorney could argue that his intent was to shoot the door down or just shoot the door period in rage over her locking it.
Granted, I think that’s BS, but if he had a *very* good attorney he could at the very least get it reduced to 2nd degree murder.
@ Amelia–As my dad explained it to me years ago (he was a cop), premeditated means it was planned to a certain extent, whether that was hours or days. Manslaughter is typically in the heat of the moment or as an accident. For example, you were defending yourself, meant to shoot the leg but hit an artery and the person died. That’s manslaughter vs. there was evidence beforehand that you wanted the person dead. Like you bought a gun, talked to someone about wanting them dead, made arrangements. The degree of murder is usually based on how degree of premeditation. Did you decide weeks ahead of time or within hours of their death?
If that story is true of him shooting through the bathroom door I could totally see him being crazy holed up in his bathroom and in a rage shooting through it and not knowing that she was directly on the other side or something like that. He seems like someone who would do something childish like that. Considering his tweet a few months ago about how gleeful he was to think an intruder was in his house. He almost seemed disappointed that he didn’t get to kill some bad guy.
+1
He is so guilty, he hasn’t got a leg to stand on.
I would like to say I could believe it was an accident that he didn’t know it was her, but honestly I don’t. so, but maybe I’m just cynical.
Regardless there’s a woman who lost her life for either being in the wrong place at the wrong time or simply because she dated an abusive douche. It has got to stop.
I am just as shocked as everyone else, we know that d v exists everywhere, even in “happy marriages” behind closed doors. I just did not think he was like that, he was such an inspiration!
I am also very realistic, and so far it does not look like an accident.
But what I would like to add or rather ask is – from reading links in the post yesterday here on CB – he seemed to have a hatred towards women, at least while drunk. And I know that his mother died when he was young, maybe he carries an inner hate for other women, because he thinks his mother should have outlived us all? Or is he somehow unable to trust women? And that just puts a negative spin on all his relations with women?
I am NOT making excuses, shooting a poor innocent person, DV, is just monstrous! But the Dr Phil in my brain wants to draw conclusions.
It wasn’t an accident. I’m a fan and I’m accepting this. She had been in his home for hours prior to the murder. They argued, he went to get his gun and fired six times. That’s premeditated murder. Period. You don’t need to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The accidental garbage story was started by one local newspaper. Not even his team or his family, who from the get go said they were not even going to speculate.
Please let us all stop repeating this burglar bullsht because that is not even his defense. Retire that nonsense. nobody ever claimed that except a dumb newspaper. A trial has not even began.
+2,478,921… .3
I wonder if steroid use is involved? Tends to create rage type behaviour if it’s abused. Couple that with alcohol and *boom*. Very sad for her family.
Good point. Could be.
That was my first thought, that steroids may have been involved. People on steroids have hair-trigger tempers. I knew a guy who was this sweet, mild-mannered, slight-framed guy. He started taking steroids and working out and became this big muscle-bound psycho. It was scary! Whatever the case, thoughts with the victim’s family. RIP beautiful young woman.
Several people have said he shows anger toward women “especially when alcohol is involved”. I’d say he’s an alcoholic if there is a pattern of these incidents. And steroids would certainly increase the rage.
This is NOT a self-defense issue. It’s a domestic violence issue. His defense team is doing a great job of selling the former when, in fact, it’s most likely the latter.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278970/Oscar-Pistorius-breaks-tears-charged-count-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp.html
until now,we don’t know what happened
The DM story is garbage. It ignores the fact that she was confirmed to be in the house two hours earlier in favor of playing up the ‘oh, South Africa is so dangerous’ angle.
This isn’t the first time they have done this. Two years ago, a British man hired hitmen to kill he new wife on their honeymoon in SA and the DM decided to roast SA and paint him as the total victim. When SA hosted the 2010 World Cup, they ran story after story about how people should stay away because the country is so dangerous they were risking their lives in coming. Thank goodness people had better sense than to listen. The event was an enormous and murder-free success (as we in SA knew it would be).
I remember reading the World Cup coverage and thinking “You morons.”
The Daily Fail do love a good fear-mongering story.
I’m just waiting for the day when they come out with the headline ‘Research suggests oxygen causes cancer!!!’
When has his defense team ever gone with that story?? A trial has not began in case you forgot. It was ONE local newspaper who started that nonsense and everyone, like morons that they are, repeated it like parrots until now, ignoring fact that his own father said they were not going to speculate. Meaning it’s nobody’s version that he was acting in self defense, not even his own. Had it been his own story the police would not have said they were surprised these allegations were even in the media. Because he would’ve claimed that immediately, which he did not. That was never the story he sold.
Stop propagating the ignorance. This was never put out there by him team. His own team and family have explicitly said they don’t even know what is going on. His lawyer has not said a goddamned thing officially announcing he thought it was an intruder.
Wait – I meant he never claimed it was an act of self defense from an intruder/burglar.
Whether he will claim this was self defense from her, God knows because we don’t exactly know what his version is yet. Just keep in mind it was never the burglar story. He never claimed that and the police had no record of that. They have not said what he claimed or admitted to.
I find it telling and shocking that his own dad say they were not even going to speculate. Safe to say they are just as baffled as all of us.
Tragic. She was lovely.
I am tired of women, little girls all over the world who are beaten, raped, killed because men have a cynical love affair with violencce and don’t value life like women do.
We bring them to life and they end up treat us like dirt, like our lives should be wasted and terminated and disrupted upon their decision, in a wink.
It is not normal that we have to have a special day for women to be reminded that too many of us have to endure the worst from so many men…one is already too much.
And now another angel has fallen because of their never ending unleashed violence…another one among the thousand who will die today, each and every day at the hands of a man who live with them because they have zero respect for their life…
RIP Reeva and to rot in hell a$$hole !
Agreed
Amen
Sisters!
His fens do have my sympathy.It must be such a shock to know a guy, who appeares a truly good example for strong will and fortitude and then turns into murderer. Police spokeswoman confirmed several domestic violence reports (yesterday late night).
It doesn’t seem to be some accidental shooting.
Paranoia, ragey, rich – ‘totaine psychosis maybe?
Hope he can’t buy his way out of jail.
Four shots, no break in, neighbors hearing an argument says this was no accident. Good for the SA police in not letting his celebrity get in the way of justice. Here he would get a lesser charge thanks to expensive lawyers. A bio about Reeva says she wasn’t just a model she went to law school too and supported organizations fighting domestic abuse.
Chilling.
It sounds, so far, like a domestic violence issue – a sadly common one.
Either way, to me, he’s guilty of something. If he knew it was her and shot her, its a murder. If he really believed it was an intruder and shot 4 times without any chance for her, it’s (at the least) criminally negligent homicide (at least in the US).
I’m a gun owner. My husband and I have guns for self-defense. But here’s the thing: it’s proper to, if you’re confronting somebody in the home and you don’t know who they are, announce yourself. I’d say something like “Go away, I have a gun.” If its a loved one, they’ll say “Honey it’s me” or something. I can’t believe that he was so quick to shoot at a person who he knew might have been his girlfriend. Even if he’s being 100% honest, he’s still really negligent and deserves jail time.
Also, it sounds like he wasn’t even the one to call for help. It was the neighbors who heard shots. If he’d realized a mistake, he would’ve been trying to get her medical help.
I can certainly understand your example of IF someone with a gun (or several) breaks in to your home to kill your family and rob you, you rather kill them (the wrongdoers) then them killing you (the innocent people) but yesterday I read in the other O P article here on CB about a rugby (?) player in SA who thought someone was about to steal his car early in the morning (he woke up to the sound of it driving away) so he shot through the window and actually killed the person driving the car, by a shot through the neck. However, it wasn’t a thief, it was his own 19 yo daughter who had borrowed the car without permission (or maybe it was the family car and he had another).
But my point is, you cannot shoot and kill someone for stealing your car!!! No matter if you are pro or contre the death penalty, the death penalty should not be for people who without violence or threat steals a car!!!
Even in this case of OP, maybe even if it was an accident, did he really think his own life was in danger? If the burglars haven’t noticed you, well GET OUT AND GET SAFE! Don’t try to shoot them all!
Your example is false. I don’t know about South Africa, but it is legal in the US to use deadly force to defend home property (it’s called the Castle Doctrine, Google it). The issue isn’t that he shot somebody in his home – the issue is that he shot somebody who he had no clue who the person was. His girlfriend lived there with him – he had a duty to ensure that it was NOT her before shooting. He could have pointed the gun and announced himself, threatened the person, done something that would have resulted in Reeve saying “it’s me.” He chose not to do that. So I’m of the opinion that even if he is telling the truth, he’s still criminally liable for her death.
@Sam – we don’t have CD in England because there’s no duty to retreat in our law, either. Basically wherever you are you have the right to defend yourself from serious violence by any means necessary. As long as you don’t chase after someone running away, and you reasonably believe they mean to hurt you very badly, you can do whatever you need to to stop them. You just have to step back when they can’t harm you anymore.
That would not cover shooting anyone through a locked bathroom door here, either. I agree, it’s just not arguable as a proportionate response.
Let’s stop going with the burglar theory already. He never claimed that anyway. Nobody knows what he told the police but it was not that, according to them or his own family. Just stop propagating false stories and inviting debates as to whether he’s innocent or not. He is not.
I think his defense team is going with the intruder story, because its the only logical argument – and the new reports are saying that is in fact what they’ll pursue. They can’t dispute that it actually was him that shot her (the prints and residue testing will put that to rest). She was shot through a door (allegedly). That dispels actual self-defense, since there was no way she was physically attacking him at the time. They’ll probably go with that he was in a room, through an intruder was coming in and fired either through the door or as it opened.
And Val, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I said that even IF he did truly believe he was shooting an intruder, he’s still guilty under a negligence theory because he fired at a person who he did not try to ID first. Perhaps you’re due to go back to grade school to brush up, perhaps?
No they are not, Sam. Please read the reports. It was a dumbass rumor that started on Twitter, apparently, and one newspaper ran with it. That is not his defense, it has never been. We don’t know what his defense is. Nobody is pushing a story yet. A trial has not begun.
Why do people like to repeat things without even bothering to read the reports? How lazy to not try to find out for yourself what is going on and just repeat and assert without knowing for sure.
If you read the statement his defense team out out, they say they are going to challenge the charge of murder. That’s lawyer-speak for “we can’t dispute his actions, we will dispute the legal charge against him.”
They’re not going to argue that he’s not the shooter. They can’t – his gun, with his prints are going to be matched to her wounds. So basically, they’ve already indicated that they’re gonna argue that her death was not planned. That leaves only a few theories: 1) accidental shooting (not likely with 4 times); 2) Self-defense (unlikely, given that she was smaller than him, and that even in that case, deadly force probably wouldn’t fly) 3.) severe provocation (unlikely – a very high burden to meet) or 4) mistaken identity. Option 4 is the most viable, because it makes sense in South Africa, where home invasions are not rare and most wealthy people are armed to the teeth. Even if the story was started by a newspaper, its going to be the hallmark of his defense. They’re going to cite his apparant angst in court and all that as supporting evidence that he had no intent to kill.
So from what I understand the issue isn’t whether or not he shot her but why? He’s claiming self-defence because he thought she was an intruder?
Look, if he shot her then he’s guilty – there’s no “alleged murder”. They can argue as to the terminology (accidental, premeditated, etc) but there’s nothing alleged about it.
I don’t understand how he can claim self defence without an intruder actually attacking him physically. Even if there is an unarmed intruder, the action of shooting them is not really self defence if there is no threat. It’s so stupid to say (for example), ‘I shot in self defense, when they weren’t attacking me, but were in the house.’
So in his case, he has to state whether he actually saw her or didn’t see her (and just shot), if the latter, it’s still not self defence, it would be argued by his defence to be manslaughter. If the former, then it would be murder (because he’d have seen her).
Either way, the multiple shots from a pistol – not a rapid fire weapon – are damning enough.
It’s interesting how word still got out – through his people no doubt – of the intruder theory.
This case will be the South African equivalent of the O J Simpson case.
Even more so if the ‘burgler’ was using the potty. Surley that gives you an opportunity to get out of the house safely and/or press the panic button?
In the US at least, there is NO requirement that you wait to be attacked before you kill an intruder. It’s generally called either the Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground law. However, the issue here is that he didn’t even try to verify who this person was (if he’s telling the truth). What prevents him from hearing somebody who might be burglar, going to confront them and announcing himself (at which point, he’d realize it was his girlfriend).
@ Sam
South Africa most definitely does not have Stand Your Ground types of ‘self defence’ laws on the books.
Last year, a bill was passed expanding when POLICE were allowed to use deadly force but it was made clear that “Force must always be reasonably necessary and proportional in the circumstances, and deadly force, including shooting, may in addition be used only if the suspect poses a threat of serious violence to the arrester or another person or persons; or if the suspect is reasonably suspected of having committed a crime involving serious bodily harm, and there are no other reasonable means of arresting him at that time or later.”
In the case of private citizens, the constitutional right to life outweighs the right to protect property. If someone claims self-defence they must prove in court that their choice of deadly force was proportionate to the risk they faced.
We all know how well Stand Your Ground works.
@Sam-Get YOUR facts straight. The Castle Doctrine does not apply in every US state. In many there is a clear duty to retreat before using force and/or to use the most minimal force that would protect you.
Not really germane to this story but I hate seeing the wrong info posted all over this thread!
He is not claiming anything yet, people. Please stop repeating things that were never confirmed by the police or his camp. Read the reports. Let’s go over a few things before we talk about this incident and continue to propagate rumors, you can confirm this yourself by reading the reports:
1) He was not the one who called the police, it was the neighbors. Once when they heard a loud argument. Again when they heard gunshots. He never called the police and said “I shot someone at my house. It was my gf, I thought it was someone else.” Never.
2) One neighbor, a doctor, was let in by him into his home and she (I think it’s a she) tried to help. Paramedics got there soon after and it was too late.
3) The police arrived and arrested him immediately. This means he never even tried to go along with a story of a burglar, otherwise he would’ve been detained for questioning, not formally arrested. Why was he arrested immediately? The police had been at his home two hours early over domestic disturbance complaints. According to the police, that night was not even the first night they had to go over to check on things. He cannot possibly claim something so stupid when the police knew Reeva was there and that they had been fighting.
4) The police said they didn’t understand where the burglar theory came from and shot it down immediately explaining they had been over at his house before over domestic disturbances. It was never the version they had, meaning, he never told him that and they never reported this.
5) His own father said they don’t know what happened. This means Oscar is not running with any story yet. Not a burglar, not self defense against her, even. Nobody is talking yet.
6) His lawyers never claimed it was a case of mistaken identity. We don’t know what he will claim yet. Obviously they will be running some story that he is innocent, but they are not claiming an accident or self defense from a total stranger.
7) We don’t know what is his defense. A trial has not begun yet and the police is not sharing what he told them. There is no defense as of yet, that we know.
His defense team has already come out and said that they will pursue a theory that he is not guilty of pre-meditated murder. So basically, they’re not saying he’s innocent – they’re most likely going to pursue a theory of some lesser homicide due to mistaken identity. So basically, in a nutshell, that means that they’re going to concede that he was the shooter up front and make an argument that he did not shoot her intentionally. That basically leaves 3 possibilities: 1.) acciental gun discharge (highly unlike – shot 4 times, including multiple head wounds); 2.) physical defense from attack (again, super unlikely – given that she likely posed no imminent threat to him) or 3.) mistaken identity (presents best chance).
Isn’t having a law degree great in times like these? You should try it!
Don’t be obnoxious. Even if you have a law degree (which anyone can claim to have on the internet, so it’s irrelevant for you to mention it to anonymous strangers on a gossip site, as if it gave you information we don’t have on the case) you still don’t know what his defense is yet. Nobody knows. You have not even bothered to read the police report. That is my only point here. That nobody is claiming an accident or that he thought she was someone else. So stop repeating it. You are intentionally missinforming people and weakly backing yourself up with a degree you can’t prove you have when you don’t even know that his lawyers have kept quiet and only his family said they reject the murder charge in a statement. That is all. The original rumor came from twitter, not even from a confirmed source. The poluce said “that is not the story we have.” So enough.
By going along with the fake reports we are inviting a debate as to whether he had the right to shoot or not and we’re discussing things that are not even going to be part of the case. It’s a waste of time and a chain of missinformation.
Let that version go already.
@ Sam
I not sure ‘mistaken identity’ is a valid defence in SA given what I said earlier about having to prove that the force used fit the scale of the threat. There is simply no way his defence team can do this given what we already know about the case – and who knows how much we don’t know or even what the unknown unknowns are 😉
I honestly can’t wait to see what they come up with.
FYI – The prosecutor on this case is Gerrie Nel – arguably the country’s best. Last year he won the International Association of Prosecutors (IAP) Special Achievement Award. Absolutely no chance he is going to be intimidated or impressed by the celebrity nature of the case. Pistorious should get used to crying in court.
Those interested in how each side might pursue its case in court should read this from the always excellent Daily Maverick:
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-02-15-oscar-pistorius-in-court-state-will-argue-premeditated-murder/
ValW: I dont’ know the laws in SA either, but in the US there’s varying degrees of manslaughter when you kill someone. It would make sense to me that OP would try that level of defense seeing as there isn’t any doubt he shot her, but whe only question is why.
Manslaughter is the “consumed with rage” type murder where no plan was in place, as opposed to premeditated murder where plans were made and it is a cold blooded “I’m going to kill this person” act.
Maybe someone who knows more than I do could make better sense.
Just want to clear up something as far as the self-defence theory is concerned. Oscar will not be able to rely on self-defence, as self-defence excludes the element of unlawfulness and unlawfulness is determined OBJECTIVELY in terms of South African law. There was no real threat/burglar even if Oscar mistakenly believed otherwise, so objectively his conduct was unlawful and that’s that. What he will be able to use as a defence is error. Error excludes intent which is determined subjectively – id est. what did Oscar really believe at that moment.
Weird, he put out a twitter message a few months ago, about comming home,and finding a burglar etc etc…Sad story.
Do you mean the tweet where he said he thought he had a burglar and went all recon, but it was only the sound of his washing machine? I’m not sure if he has ever confronted a burglar.
p.a.r.a.n.o.i.d.
To me, he sounds like a perfect canidate for Arpaio’s goon squad.
He was definitely very paranoid. This is why the rumor originated, but it is not what he’s telling the police and it won’t be part of his defense.
Here’s some background. People who knew him, and the media too and his fans (like me, ugh), knew he immediately grabbed his gun when he heard noises in his home. He even told a story on twitter and in an interview and these were two separate stories he told. This was a regular thing for him. He had guns, baseball bats, etc. And he didn’t even trust his own security. He had tons of dogs. A friend claimed Oscar told him that sometimes even security guards are in on the break ins, so he had his own guns because he never felt 100% safe or trusted them. This is common knowledge to those who know him. It’s his thing, so this explains the rumor. I’m guessing people wanted to make sense of what just happened because any other possibilities were too awful to consider.
The police had been over to his house two hours prior over a disturbance, so why would he come up with a lame, blatant lie? They arrested him on sight. Not even just taking him in for questioning. Which means he never even bothered to come up with a lie. They knew. He knew they knew.
This is just a rumor based on his reputation and it apparently started on twitter. That is all.
This was domestic violence, end of story. What excuse he’ll give, God knows. But the claims that he didn’t mean to shoot her will not be part of his defense. Never has been. They’re not admitting he’s guilty of murder. But they’re not going with the story of him mistaking her with someone else.
This domestic violence. Period.
The time bomb went off.
RIP Reeva Steenkamp.
Where are the times when role models were actually decent human beings?
I hate to sound jaded (even though I am), but I’m willing to bet a lot of our old role models had plenty of skeletons. Ok, maybe not murder. But everything is just “out there” now thanks to the internet etc.
I totally agree with you. Fanatism and lack of critical thinking are the attitudes I fear the most.
Here’s why I don’t believe the accident story. He was pretty open about his gun ownership, and even tweeted about how jumpy he was about someone breaking in. His girlfriend would surely know good and well that sneaking in or doing something sneaky would result in possibly getting shot. So she wouldn’t do that.
He never said it was an accident. It was a rumor that everyone printed. Nobody knows what he’s claiming.
Thanks ValW. In the sports world it sounds like that story still has a lot of believers but I see now that no one is actively trying to put it forward.
Yes I’ve been reading how the media has been complicit in protecting his image, which many people are profiting from.
Whenever a man commits a violent crime against a woman, all of these people come out with all of these theories. They speculate that it was accidental, steroids, brain damage, etc. But never that maybe he is just a terrible guy that decided to attack or kill a woman.
Various things that have come out are classic domestic violence red flags. Past history of police coming out for a domestic issue, past charges of assault, some former girlfriends saying he was violent, etc. And then the crying in court making it all about him, instead of the woman that he killed.
Merritt — make me think of the comment on the other post yesterday where one person said she could spot an abuser just by listening to them.
Poster said that the common trait is that abusers a whiners who complain that nobody understands them and how everything is so hard for them.
I thought it was an interesting observation.
+1000 it speaks volumes about how we value men over women.
@OK – I’m concerned about the idea of “being able to spot an abuser just by listening to them.” Yes, there are certain psychological traits that are common amongst abusers, and entitlement and a massive victim complex are among them, but saying it’s easy to spot abusers is a pretty slippery slope to victim blaming. Abusers also know how to hide the obvious traits in order to get away with it.
I think he broke down because he knows the gravity of what he did and he has no alibi. He knew they knew they had been fighting for days. Days!! What it is his excuse? We have no idea.
This is all so bizarre because what could possibly motivate such passion to kill someone you only began dating less than two months ago? What history is there between two people, what passion? He just met her in November. They were just getting to know each other. Did he finally snap? Did he finally break down? He’s been very violent, irrational and angry for awhile and he drinks a lot too. Her friends never saw her be abused, be depressed, be bruised. Nothing. She never mentioned anything. They were not living together or engaged yet. They were not even serious. How did the fight begin and over what?
This is insanely bizarre to me and all we know is that he’s violent and has a dark side that we, the public, never knew of. I think it’s more than just alcohol and anger issues. Maybe mental problems? His exgf hinted at him being scary and dangerous, then withdrew these comments, maybe out of fear or threats. She was about to sell a story and then took everything back. Her mom just said she was glad nothing happened to his daughter “while he had his claws on her.”
I Would not be surprised if his team claimed temporary insanity or something like that, to be honest. He’s known to be unreasonably paranoid and ragey. And who knows, he might be.
He always thinks someone is following him. Maybe he’s a psycho and took it out, finally, on someone because he never got help for his problems. Everyone was too busy building him up because of athletic achievements.
What creeps me out pretty badly is how smiley and calm his brother is. He was smiling at court while his dad and sister looked like death.
I’m guessing temporary insanity as well, blaming it all on doping and ‘roid rage. His behavior fits the mold and, well, he sorta reminds me of Lance Armstrong. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole thing turned into a major sports scandal involving performance enhancing drugs.
Some reports say that there were a total of six shots. Anyway, no reasonable person shoots through a closed door – if that is the scenario – without having some idea, i.e. announcing himself and his status of being armed.
It seems as though he is paranoid, but not only that, but one of those fanatical gun owners who subconsciously hope for an excuse to use their gun on a real person (presuming an intruder) and even then, even if it was an intruder, if the intruder is unarmed and you’re armed, there is no justification in killing someone (if they run away for example) unless they attack you.
What I find weird is that the entire sob story of his life is the first thing that comes out or takes over, even before her body is cold. No details about her, but all about him.
I don’t care if he was born without fibulas and runs on blades. He killed a person and he needs to answer for that.
apparently he is paranoid(obsessed by burglars) and loved to have some weapons at home
Just because he is a Olympic Folk Hero does not mean there is a dark side of his personality. Maybe, his handlers keep a lid on it or look the other way because there are probably a lot of people making money off of him.
I agree. Now that earlier stories are surfacing, his previous run ins with women and his personality issues, it seems as though his hangers on did little.
Usually when people turn a blind eye, things continue unfurling until something tragic does happen and now it has. It seems that this man either paid off previous girlfriends to keep quiet in the hope of maintaining his public image. Now it’s all blown up in his face.
His career is finished.
Oh yeah. Even the local media was obsessed with creating the myth. The press created the myth. Countries love to create heroes like that based only on their achievements and the struggles they overcame, and not in their true characters. And what was special about Oscar is that he united a country that is savaged by violence and racism. He was loved by absolutely everyone. So it wasn’t just some famous guy. He meant something to people that come from a place where they need stories of hope, like his (was).
Pop culture in general loves doing this. We love our heroes and we build them up, ignoring his flaws or demons. Look at John Lennon. He’s the image of peace but he used to beat his first wife and abused Yoko and Sean too. One time he screamed so loudly at Sean, he broke his eardrum and had to go to the ER. Sean was only 3. Elvis was awful too.
Just think how many heroes are just myths and lies. We don’t know these people. Their demons. And with huge egos and endless power and money, they are almost invincible. Or so they think.
I cannot believe this is Oscar. I loved him. I really did. I’m very sad and shocked. Crazy shocked. Mostly because his image was being protected fiercely, so now new details are coming out (hey! he was arrested for assault on a girl y’all!) and you add what you heard before, all the rumors, and what you know about his temper and paranoia and it all adds up.
I’m… Upset.
Sounds a bit similar to the Lance Armstrong myth. And we know how well that fairy tale turned out. It’s been a weird few months for sports, with so-called heroes exposed for who they really are.
Someone on another site said something like just because a guy is disabled it doesn’t make him immune to the entitled ass&*$@ athlete mentality. Sad but true.
That assault in 2009 really could have been an accident. He kicked a 19 year old girl out of a party at his house an d depending on the source he either slammed the door on her leg or he slammed the door and part of it broke off and hit her. Which could have been a sign that he’s a rageaholic who intentionally slammed the door on her leg to injure her or just that she caused a disturbance so he got frustrated, shut the door too forcefully, and accidentally hurt her.
Looking at the way he is walking with his hoodie up and covering his head doe not strike me as someone who has done something accidentally
Why would Pistorius think a burglar was behind a closed bathroom door? That didn’t strike him as unlikely?
Because that is not his defense. He never claimed it was a burglar. Not him, not his family anyway. One stupid newspaper runs that story and everyone runs with it when his own family and the police have never gone with that theory at all. His own dad said very very early on that they didn’t know what happened and they didn’t even want to speculate. His own father. The police was surprised that it was even on the news because it was the first they heard of it. Meaning, Oscar never claimed that. Why would he if Reeva had been in his home for hours?
I’ve read everything about this so far and it’s unclear why a newspaper claimed this or what is the source, but it was not even Oscar because the police had zero understanding of this. The shocking thing is how everyone just repeated a false statement without even checking if the police confirmed that was his version. Amazing how the media propagates falsehoods and how everyone just believes what they read without checking other sources or stories.
I think the break-in theory was just pure speculation early on by someone with no knowledge of the situation, which then took on a life of its own.
This just might be a good example for Valentine’s Day a Billion Women Rising movement. Women against women being abused by men.
What was the result of his drug/alcohol testing?
It has not been revealed. Would not be surprised if he was drunk. He drank a lot.
Readers, pls don’t assume the “Stand your ground” law is the rule in the US- it isn’t. Several states have passed such legislation- but in light of the debacle last year in Fla ( unarmed kid shot and killed by a security guard and that statute was invoked)- enthusiasm for such legislation had waned.
However, the concept of using deadly force to defend your home/person is well established in US- and such use would not involve criminal sanctions, but only after authorities conducted an investigation.
They are two very different concepts.
He has all of the characteristics of a sociopath. Poor girl. She was a beauty with brains as well.
Tink Tink’s goin’ to the clink clink…
Ahahahahahahaha!!!!!
“Poor lil tink tink…ain’t that a bitch” was the first thing I thought of when I heard this.
I hadn’t heard of him until that skit. I’m sure I’m one of millions too.
Glad someone got it! 🙂
um, ok? Violence (and misogyny) exist in all races and groups, regardless of where they are from. So tired of trolls bringing up someone’s race or ethnicity when it comes to murder.
If someone had told me a South African sports star would be arrested for murdering his girlfriend I would have bet dollars to donuts it’d be a national team cricketer.
Ok – if he shot her through the bathroom door, was he INSIDE the bathroom shooting out through the closed door? Or was he OUTSIDE the bathroom shooting in through a closed door?
It makes a huge difference in the credibility of his defense, I would think.
Preeeeeecisely. If she had gone and locked herself in the bathroom and he shot through the door, then that’s like shooting an animal in a pen.
My money says he’ll argue diminished capacity because of alcohol, roids, fame, and whatever else he can come up with.
I know what he’s accused of doing yet I can’t help feel desperately sympathetic towards him for some reason. I think this is all a terrible accident because that man is clearly horrified and remorseful over what he’s done. I hope it was an accident. The problem is, accident or not, she’s still dead and he’s going to have to answer for that regardless.
I understand what you are saying. A few days ago, this 26 year old man was a global inspiration. Now, a young woman is dead and the world has lost something that it considered a light. It is a heartbreaking end to a beautiful story that could have and should have played out so differently.
Regret often sets in after the heat of anger fades. Unfortunately, in his rage, he used a weapon that provides a permanent ‘solution’ instead of ‘just’ his fists.
Well, that’s just too damned bad for him.
@ Jo “Mama”
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA! (snort) (cackle)!!
You’re awesome Jo:)
I understand what you’re saying, too, Madiani’s Girl. It’s the power of PR. We all fall for it, and then we see the real person. Sometimes it’s great like the Renee Zellweger/Zach Gilwhateverhisnameis story. And sometimes it’s like this.
From a lot of the comments on the daily mail website many seemed to think he was justified. Many posters have turned this into a nasty race war issue. They are saying stuff like he kept guns and weapons all about because he needed to defend himself against Black South African militants and that apparently the White South African’s all own guns for this venture. I don’t know why people are starting up with this ‘race war’ when this is more of an issue about a man who got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend and killed her. This is an issue of woman’s abuse and I hate how some people again in comment sections in the daily mail/ yahoo/ many more blogs etc are trying to deflect from that and his actions and justify it with him needing to protect his property in a gated community from Black African hooligans. They also seem to forget that abuse knows no boundaries in race/religion/ethnicity/culture.
Also everything on the victims twitter from valentines day implies that she was looking forward to being around him that day. She tweeted stuff like:
“My boo :)” and “what do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow?”.
She also advocated for abuse and rape victims and I think it is such a horrible way to go. I hope she will get justice and I also hope that if he truly did do it many people will stop with the pitying of the actual perp of the crime like it seems so many have rushed forward to do when it has been stated many times he shot her point blank at close range. I can’t imagine how her family must feel so I think some people ought to consider there words when rushing to defend him so quickly how that would feel from the victims family’s perspective.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/reeva-steenkamp-cover-model-law-degree-164016410–oly.html
I was going to reply with an extended thesis on why you are seeing the kind of comments you are on the DM but instead will simply say that the paper has a long history of slanted, yellow journalism when it comes to South Africa that dates back to the brutal Boer Wars (c 1900).
Notice how many of the comments are actually being written by South Africans. Very few.
For the real picture of how to measure his actions, check out the comments in the South African coverage. You’ll have a hard time finding sympathy-tinged ‘poor scared hero’ mutterings.
It was no black militant that murdered that woman, he gets to take full credit for that one. And I suppose it was the black guy’s door that slammed that girl’s leg, hm?
THANK YOU. What i am most grateful for is that she isn’t black.imagine the awful awful consequences of that.i doubt South Africa would have recovered from the racial war that would have emerged
Twenty years ago, South Africa brought down Apartheid without descending into a ‘race war’.
Race war? Im glad you think we’re all just a bunch of racists.
Thank you so much Lauren for writing that.You are absolutely right.No one wants to see this beloved legless hero go to jail so his fans are already making excuses for him.Instead of mourning the beautiful smart woman that was gunned down by her own boyfriend,they would rather make excuses for a murderer.The worst part is even though he is guilty he probably still won’t do any time in SA..This reminds me too much of the O.J case.A beloved sports hero,and domestic abuser getting away with murder .It also bothers me that people feel sorry for him just because he doesn’t have legs.If he wanted to be treated the same at the Olympics he should be treated the same as a murder suspect.
It reminds me a lot of OJ too.
I’m curious about two hours prior when the police first responded to a domestic disturbance at his house? Why didn’t they remove one or both of the parties? Seems to me they failed to resolve the matter before they left and Reeva ended up dead.
I think it was because he was a celebrity.The police over there are probably as star struck as the American police are.If he was a regular guy they probably would’ve put him in jail or asked him to leave after the first call. But much like the people defending him,they did not want to give poor handicappped Oscar a hard time.Remember when movie star Halle Berry had her ex arrested on Thanksgiving even though he was the one beat up and attacked?Police give the rich and famous more credit let’s face it.
Unless she told them that he hit her or threatened her they couldn’t have arrested him; it isn’t illegal to shout at people. And the police couldn’t have made him leave as they were at his home and she did not live there. All they could have done was offer to escort her off of the property if she wanted help leaving.
totally OT:it’s Halle Berry ‘s ex who had started the fight
@I’m French – sorry, hardly anyone believes that version of events. Particularly as the security cameras of a woman who claims numerous stalkers were mysteriously positioned so as not to cover the primary point of entry to the house.
All I know is that dude has one of those creepy smiles that doesn’t reach his eyes.
Maybe the defence will go with emotionally motivated crime? I don’t know the law in SA, but in many countries in Europe there is such an option
Unbelievable.
I never knew Pistorius had a dark side? He is the last person I could have pictured killing someone, even accidentally.
Sadly his dark side has been known for a long time, it was just restricted to those unfortunate to have regular dealings with him.
My God Oscar, what have you done? I grieve for Reeva Steenkamp, but I so badly wanted to believe that Pistorius is innocent and that this is just a horrible misunderstanding. Oscar Pistorius was a hero and as such I wanted to believe that deep down, despite his arrogance, he is a good man. I suppose, like many South Africans, I projected all of these good qualities onto him, because acknowledging the possibility that this man – a man who comes from my hometown, who has the same background as I do, who has inspired the world, who has overcome so much in life – is a killer is just too horrifying and disillusioning. I am very aware of my own prejudices in this regard, so yeah…I know I am flawed and my reasoning is completely clouded by emotion and sentiment. I know that domestic abuse occurs every single day across all races and socio-economic backgrounds and that exceptionally talented/ famous/ likeable/ charitable/ hardworking people can also be abusers. I also know that abusers are often really skilled at pretending to be good people. Despite all of this, I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that a very real possibility exists that our nation’s hero is a murderer. All I know at the moment is that, at least for now, no one besides Oscar knows what really happened that night. It is unfortunate that so many people, including myself initially, have already made up their minds about his guilt or innocence without any evidence to back up their belief. My gut reaction yesterday was complete denial, but now that I have kind of calmed down and intellectualised/analysed my own reactions and feelings towards this whole situation I have come to the conclusion that all we can do is wait until more facts come to light. I feel sad for Reeva’s family though, because the question of Oscar’s guilt is overshadowing the tragedy of their daughter’s death. Instead of crying for Reeva, people, myself included, are freaking out about Oscar and our own sense of disbelief and horror that he might not be who we wanted him/though him to be.
Beautifully put, Hannah. I agree with you. We should be crying for Reeva, not Oscar.
And totally off topic, I’m amazed at how many people from South Africa are regulars on this board.
I’m really shocked by all this. I was following him on twitter and had a crush on him. I feel really sad for all the disabled kids who looked up to him. I don’t believe in the burglar theory because it just doesn’t make sense. But that guy is an idiot. He is 26. He killed his girlfriend. Ruined his life, his career, his girlfriend’s family’s life, his father’s life, and disappointed millions of people… What was he thinking?
the police found nine bullet casings in his home. The neighbours called the cops. He lives on an estate where a break in is highly unlikely. he is not been held in private cell. The commanding officer at the polce station he is been held at actually insisted that he be treated like any other criminal, especially since he has been charged with murder. this was after he recieved special treatment. He had his own private cell and toilet with regular visits who brought him clothes. he now shares a communal holding cell with a communal shower and toilet. The case is most likley goin to be a painstakingly long process with some cases here takin years to be concluded. We only took notice of oscar when the rest of the world did and thats when truly became loved in SA. He was proud of the fact that he sleeps with a gun under his pillow, a cricket and baseball behind his and his love of assault rifles. He even had terrible boat accident where they found empty booze bottles in the boat. Fucked up thing is this happens when there is a really big campaign in SA to bring stop to the increasin violence against women in our beloved country. Its also interestin that he’s sponsered by nike, like woods and armstrong.
You forgot the ‘machine gun’ by the bedroom door. I’m sure that isn’t the right terminology that American enthusiasts insist on nowadays but that is what the original reporter called it a few months back.
Forgot about that. it’s wierd that the rest of the world thinks that most South Africans still put this guy on a pedestal. I dont get the comparisons with the OJ case because we have so many of those type cases in SA.Jub jub hit those kids whilst drag racing. Bees Roux beat that cop to death. Another former rugby player went on an axe muderin spree. Heck! even jacob zuma somehow got aqcuitted of those rape charges and still to this day dodges corruption charges.
One of today’s headlines:
3 Shots
Screams
Silence
3 More Shots
Roid rage?
Oh man… 🙁 I am just heartsick after reading her twittered excitement about Valentine’s Day, and the fact that she was an outspoken advocate in the fight against domestic violence, and thinking about what her poor family and friends must be feeling right now….mourning her loss while having to deal with premature media reports slanting what little facts ARE known…(many slanting in SOME type of possible justification twoards Oscar)…just heart sick! Her family and friends are in my prayers.
Hope rihanna is reading these….
Jaysus. South Africa’s most reputable paper (the Mail & Guardian) is reporting that Reeva’s skull was crushed and there was a signficant amount of blood on the cricket bat he is known to have kept in his bedroom. They are investigating if it got there when she was trying to defend herself or if she was beaten with it. It sounds like she was shot first in the hip and then fled to the bathroom to hide – only to be shot three more times through the door.
Oh. And his defence team includes “spin doctor and former editor of the UK tabloid the Sun, Stuart Higgins.” Anyone want to lay odds on a campaign to smear the victim in the coming weeks?
AND she was in her nightgown.
Bastard.
Good point about the nightgown Mich, I missed that!… Not that I needed further convincing that his guilty as sin.
I just read that in the Telegraph, Mich. There was a bloody cricket bat found, and post mortem exam showed she had a fractured skull. They posit that she was hit then shot in the hip, she ran into the bathroom, and was on the toilet protecting her head which was why she was shot in the hand as well. It makes more sense to me that he hit her with the bat, and she ran into the bathroom and then was shot. Either way, he’s going to have a hard time proving self defense on this one.
I actually know someone who woke up and found her boyfriend standing over her with a knife. She was able to get into the bathroom and lock the door. She had her phone. If only Reeva had hers. Maybe if she could have called, help could have got there sooner as apparently Oscar thought it best to call his friends and family before aid for his dying girlfriend.
And along with being in her nightgown, the evidence showed two people having been in the bed. Intruder my a$$.
Sounds like they’ve got this guy dead to rights. The only chance they’ve got is diminished capacity of some sort. I hope he gets nailed.
I am so shocked at this new report of a bloody cricket bat, fractured skull and that fact that she ran to the bathroom to hide. I guess I only knew of him from the Olympics where I found him so inspiring, handsome and he seemed like such a good sportsman. Gosh, I guess as someone said earlier Nike will whitewash any demon if it means advertising dollars. I mean wasn’t Tiger Woods fronting as a nice family man? I still can’t believe he killed her although, all his tweets about how much he loves shooting and it seemed like he wanted to catch and kill an intruder so it sounded like he wanted to kill a human being. Sort of scary stuff. Strange to imagine a guy who seemed to have it all be so stupid, but I guess it happens. I will follow this story though to see what else comes out.
I’m curious about one thing that really has no bearing on the case:
Why does a woman known for crusading against domestic violence put herself in a DV situation? We’ve been told they’d fought before? Why does she go back to him then?
That just baffles me.
I think a macho obsession with guns was part of his problem.
Still can’t say if I think he did it on purpose. If had problems with burglars in his house before, its reasonable that he might have been afraid.