Run and get your best clutchin’ pearls and put them on, because I am about to scandalize you to your very core. Andre Leon Talley, former editor at large for Vogue and former judge on America’s Next Top Model, is not gay. Commence pearl clutching!!! I mean… come on. You don’t even need gaydar for this one, right? I think every single person ever, in the world, has looked at Andre Leon Talley and said, “Gayer than Christmas.” As it turns out, ALT isn’t really saying that he’s not gay, he’s just saying that he rejects the gay label. And I guess he’s had sex with women too…? NO. Really?!
The iconic fashion editor Andre Leon Talley tells Vanity Fair contributing editor Vanessa Grigoriadis in the September issue that “the world has become too casual, and people have become lazy. There was a time when people went on the airplane with gloves.” Talley tells Grigoriadis about the gloves worn by such ladies as Kerry Washington, Michelle Obama, Beyoncé, Jackie O, and his friends Pauline de Rothschild and Gloria von Thurn und Taxis: “It’s about gloves, O.K., darling? It’s about gloves. Listen.”
Talley tells Grigoriadis of his childhood in Durham, North Carolina, where he was raised by his grandmother in the 1950s and 1960s. Bullied in his black neighborhood, Talley found solace in the fashion magazines, including Vogue, which he bought on the Duke University campus, and reading John Fairchild’s memoir of couture, The Fashionable Savages, so many times he “practically memorized it.”
When Grigoriadis asks Talley if he thought he was gay, even in high school, he responds, “No, no, no. I was just into my magazines and the drawings. I had a very strict upbringing, almost puritanical. I lived there all the way through college. I was in my grandmother’s house, and I respected that!” Talley tells Grigoriadis that he rejects the “label” and says that, while he has “had very gay experiences, yes, I swear on my grandmother’s grave that I never slept with a single designer in my life. Never, ever desired, never was asked, never was approached, never, ever bought, in my entire career. Never. Not one. Skinny or fat. Never.”
Talley also tells Grigoriadis that he has never been in love with a man—only two women: one a fellow student in Providence, the other a society woman with whom he fell in love after a night of dancing in Manhattan and whose name he declines to share because she later married and had children. On being single, Talley says, “I just said to a friend, ‘I can create this magic, so why don’t I have a lover?’” But, he tells Grigoriadis, “if I was a couple, I wouldn’t like to stay in the same bedroom. It is very un-chic in Europe to sleep in the same bedroom.”
Of his close relationship with Anna Wintour, his former boss at Vogue, Talley tells Grigoriadis, “I wouldn’t have stayed at Vogue as long as I did without Anna being there. She was my biggest ally. There could not have been another way.”
Talley says he’s never seen Wintour with a hair out of place: “Ms. Wintour has had her bob since she was in her 20s. I have never seen her hair pulled back. Never. Not even at tennis.” A colleague of Talley’s points out that “Anna and André are best buddies . . . This is the only man who could see Anna in her underwear.”
Grigoriadis reports on Talley’s longtime struggle with his weight. “I do not weigh myself,” Talley claims. “I do not want to get on that scale. I only know what I weigh from the way my clothes fit.” He reveals that he had a lap band that has not worked; he keeps eating even with it in. “The people who are really close to me and know me have stopped bringing my weight up,” he says. “They probably discuss it behind my back, some of them, in the fashion world.” But his weight has never affected his self-esteem. “I have never felt less of a person because of my dramatic weight gain,” Talley says. “Up or down, my confidence and sense of self never wavered.” Talley tells Grigoriadis that he is “usually always right” about clothes and other topics, though at one point he adds, “Except about myself.”
Talley tells Grigoriadis that he sometimes wonders why he’s never been the editor of a major magazine, and that race may play a factor. “People stereotype you,” he says. “What person of color do you know who’s in a position like that, be it a man or a woman, unless it’s Essence magazine?”
Talley, who lives in White Plains, New York, 30 miles north of Manhattan, tells Grigoriadis that he spends his evenings watching a lot of MSNBC: “Five o’clock is Chris Matthews; six o’clock is Reverend Al Sharpton. Then I wait for Rachel and Lawrence. And I’ll probably look at Judge Judy. I wish she were my friend.”
New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd calls Talley a “fashion sniper,” and describes her relationship with him as a “cultural collision. He is high-fashion and I’m no-fashion.” Talley stayed with Dowd during the last presidential inauguration, and Dowd tells Grigoriadis that Talley stopped her at the door: “Arms folded stubbornly, he told me I could not go out looking like ‘a road-show Rita Hayworth,’ and said I had to either iron the dress or change. I changed. He rolled his eyes when I wore some [stylish] dark-green booties with a black dress to a reception with the Obamas, noting that booties were for going to Starbucks, not the White House. When we went to [a] Met opening I wore a long dress a friend had given me that she found on eBay, a Reem Acra mermaidy-looking seafoam-colored dress. I felt very ethereal until André took one look, picked up a bit of the skirt, and murmured ominously, ‘Tulle. Blanche DuBois.’”
Did anyone else love every single word of that? I’m not even one of those people obsessed with all things Vogue and fashion industry insider-y and all, but I loved Every. Single. Word. I love the Maureen Dowd stuff. I love ALT wishing that Judge Judy was his friend. I love the glove thing. I love how he talks about his weight. I love everything about how he’s “been in love” with two women. Here’s my new theory: ALT is like Tim Gunn, in that it’s not even about gay or straight or bisexual at this point. Both Tim and Andre are like BEYOND sexuality at this point. Like, having sex is so gauche and unfashionable. You can read the full piece online here.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet and WENN.
Not even about the topic at hand but in the first pick, Andre needs to put some lotion on those ashy ankles.
Thank you! That is the very first rule of being Black and Fabulous- Address Your Ash.
I’ve said the glove thing to myself plenty if times.
Maybe its remnant shame from that Southern conservative upbringing that makes him reluctant to just say he is gay?
Or it could be some too-cool-for-school shizz.
Anyway, on his weight issues, I dont get why imperfect people work so hard to convince others that there IS a “perfect”. Seriously look at these fashion magazine editors, none of them would pass the silly standards they create and sell (other than Anna).
But that VF article is also pretty weird at wording the weight issue:
“He reveals that he had a lap band that has not worked; he keeps eating even with it in.”
People are SUPPOSED to eat. To, you know, stay alive.
A lap band controls how much you can eat. You are supposed to stop eating once you reach the allocated amount per your lap band. When you reach that amount, you feel full. Even if your allocated amount is 3 jelly beans. The feeling equates to a full several courses meal.
In this case, he continues to eat after he reaches that point. So the lap band isn’t working in that it isn’t helping him reduce his intake. And he is overriding it which defeats entire purpose of having one in the first place.
That’s what that statement meant.
So basically the band is designed to artificially starve fat people? Thank god, his is not working!
But still the wording of the article is weird. It sounds like he is not supposed to eat at all.
I don’t think it was specifically designed to ‘starve fat people’ however it does restrict how much a person can eat since the size of the stomach is reduced.
It’s a more temporary option than a bypass, and the person with it remains in control of their intake since they can have the band adjusted if they want to eat more/less.
It’s about the size of your stomach rather than what you are eating, so if you decide to live off jelly beans, the lap band isn’t going to prevent that.
The wording seems wierd because it’s written with an inbuilt assumption that the reader knows what a lap band is, how it works etc, so using shorthand language rather than the details of it.
I don’t care what the article might or might not have implied, I do however care for what the article actually says. And that is, “he keeps eating”. Bad fatty! Does a thing, that his body require to keep him alive.
And when I sound mad, that is because I am. I am fat and – like all fat people – I have been shamed for food my entire life. Any kind of food. Even when I ate strawberries in public some random shitty person thought her “expertise” was required, because – omg – do I know, that those contain sugar?! – Really? You don’t say!
Also, lap band is nether “temporary” nor do the patients have a real “control” over the tightness of the band. If people want to loose lots of weight, which is usually what is expected of “obese” people, they do in fact have to starve themselves by further and further tightening their band. And while they usually don’t die right away on the surgery tables any more, a lot die because of the consequences. And many live with physical and mental illnesses, pain, refluxes during sleep, vomiting everything they try to eat (including when they just swallow their spit), etc. afterwards. Band laps are not a gentle ride!
Also restricting the size of the meal portions does not work – the body simply slows down the metabolism after a while. Basically fat people stay fat but they gain some side effect while the industry gains immense profits by providing unnecessary procedures.
Re: “Maybe its remnant shame from that Southern conservative upbringing that makes him reluctant to just say he is gay?”
I think, he really just doesn’t fancy labels. And by that I am not saying, that conservative and/or religious upbringings are not problematic for queer kids – they very much are. But he is not hiding, he clearly says, that he had romantic feelings for women as well as men-on-men experiences. That is not exactly a closet.
Having lived in Atlanta for 7 years, my hunch is that he doesn’t label his sexuality because his granny taught him that it is not a discussion one has with casual acquaintances.
Polite, conservative elderly southerners have a don’t ask don’t tell policy about sex, sexuality and orientation/preference that is wholly separate from their moral opinion of non-hetero relationships.
But this is weird. He explicitly says, he had GAAAAAAY experiences and love feelings for women. How is this “don’t tell” the “polite, conservative elderly southerners” (read: homophobic?) in any way? This IS very much telling.
Or do you think, conservatives are gonna pretend, it only can mean, his men flings lie in the past, so he is over and done with them, and he only loved women anyway, therefore it basically means >>> HETERO?
I wouldn’t be surprised, to be honest.
A lot of people don’t believe that sexuality is a binary thing. Arienne Rich (I think it’s her) argues that all women are on the lesbian spectrum, and I fully agree. There’s a world of difference between having same-sex experiences and identifying as a gay man. And in mainstream culture, to identify as a gay man is to be MASSIVELY stereotyped – especially when one works in fashion like Leon. Sexuality isn’t a choice, but to many people male gayness (for want of a better phrase) is a lifestyle, and perhaps he’s just choosing to stand outside of that box. I say good for him.
I would argue, that by calling it a “lesbian spectrum” it very much plays into the hands of the monosexist idea of gay and straight being the only “real” options.
Further, as a bisexual woman, I would very much object to the idea of being placed at her so-called lesbian continuum. Even though the emotional and sexual lady-love part is very much true, so is my attraction towards people of other genders. I don’t want parts of my identity being erased and my identity being narrowed down to fit some monosexual criteria.
Also,”ALL women are on the lesbian spectrum”? No. Not all.
But while we’re at Adrienne Rich and her “Compulsory Heterosexuality & Lesbian Continuum” (and this is just a random thought): I wander how much the “male gaze” in popular media has to do with female sexualities being more fluid than men’s. I mean, in pretty much every movie, TV show and commercial the viewer – male, female, and genderqueer – are forced to objectify other women. We are made to follow the cameras when they scan female bodies up and down, to see them move in slow motion, to take in close ups of their breast and butts and legs… Over and over again. This kind of gaze is rarely ever done towards male actors/musicians/celebs. So maybe that is why it is more common among women, even the ones who are straight identified, to say things like, “I would go gay for [female celebrity]” or to drunkenly make out with other girls in a bar?
JJ:
This is where I’m showing my ignorance: is she arguing for the LS as exclusionary? I always thought her point was to show the inherent homoeroticism (for want of a better word) in female-friendships. I think both male and female cultures today objectify the body and representations of beauty. We objectify everyone. I always read her point as trying to open up the discourse as a means of understanding that gay/straight weren’t the only options, and that all relationships were saturated with a physicality that incorporates sexuality.
It seems to me, and I don’t mean this in a critically hostile way, just as an observation, that your actual objection is to the term “lesbian,” because your implicit definition aligns it with a same sex focus. I think what Rich is trying to do is layer that on, not narrow the path. I think it’s a great thing. I taught the essay to a bunch of suburban college girls and it really blew their mind to think that their relationships might be sexually charged – that to be on the “lesbian spectrum” is so much more than just banging another woman. It’s food for thought, and rightfully so.
With regards to your other point: it is done to male celebs, but on this site and places like tumblr and fan/fic sites. When men objectify women, it’s part of the mainstream culture, but when women do it to men, it’s an object of derision and shoved off to a dark corner of the internet (and CB).
I disagree with Rich on other points as well, but your observation is right, I do really object to the term “lesbian”. Not because, omg, I don’t want to be affiliated with lesbians, but solely because so much of lesbian feminist literature relies on systematical erasure of bisexual women from queer history. So much of bisexual existence in general has been coercively erased by gay communities as well as mainstream society. And that is a huge problem because it means – among other things – a lack of representation, lack of communities, lack of awareness, lack of speech, lack of acknowledgement and lack of resources.
If you are genuinely interested, Kenji Yoshino wrote a great thing called “The Epistemic Contract Of Bisexual Erasure” on that topic, that can be downloaded for free: http://www.kenjiyoshino.com/articles/epistemiccontract.pdf
I do understand, that she in fact didn’t use the term in an exclusive way, however the problem still stands:
(1) Monosexist!
(2) By lumping in straight, lesbian, and plurisexual women in the same category, she ignores the differences in realities of those women’s lives. Queer oppression for example, doesn’t affect straight women at all. Having sexually charged female friendships doesn’t cost a straight girl her home, her family, her friends, her job… And while I think, Rich’s point about heterosexuality being compulsory/forced by mainstream society is a valid one, I also find it insulting to reduce a queer label to nothing but sexy times and homo-erotically loaded friendships. It devalues the label, it ignores real queer struggle and the price queer women pay to be who they are.
And I by no means say, people shouldn’t question their sexualities and experiment. As long as it involves consenting adults and lots of fun, please feel free to go for whatever your heart desires. Just – DON’T APPROPRIATE! (Unless you realize, that you – in fact – are a queer woman, of cause. But then it is not appropriation anymore, so…)
—
Yes, women objectify men as well. But my question was: When straight women are made to objectify other women all the time, does it affect their sexuality in such a way that it becomes more fluid? I just wander, why it is, that studies show times and times again female sexuality to be more fluid than men’s.
I love this man. He just seems so intelligent and thoughtful. I always loved watching him on ANTM (my guilty pleasure) because you could tell he actually cared about the girls.
I agree that Tim Gunn is similar. Both of them are kind of just…almost asexual to me. I love them both so much.
I loooove Tim Gunn. I mean seriously, I would love to be his friend. I love his critiques on project runway…I love his suits. God I love him.
And he just seems so genuinely nice! He’s one of the few famous people I wouldn’t actually mind meeting because he’s just so darn amazing.
In my fantasy life, Tim Gunn is my best friend and we hang out at his apartment and watch HGTV, because that’s what he likes to do. Ha!
Tim Gunn is so lovely. I have always loved that man and want him to be my bestie. I want to have him come over to my home, make him dinner, drink wine and giggle like a bunch of school girls. He is my absolute favorite.
Tim Gunn is my BFF in my head
I think the difference with Tim Gunn though is that he had his heart smashed to a thousand pieces and that seems to be the reason he has eschewed romantic relationships. Maybe I misunderstood the quotes I’ve read, but he seemed to say that the major relationship of his youth kind of broke him, which absolutely breaks MY heart. I love Tim Gunn. But I suppose his love now is his work and his students and he is happy in his own way.
On a related note, anyone who has not seen ‘Bill Cunningham: New York’ should watch it ASAP. It’s amazing. He is amazing. I don’t know if I want Bill to be my best friend or if I just wish I was more like him. But his views on street fashion and his impossible work ethic nearly made my heart burst out of my chest with love and appreciation.
Why do people react like there are only the two options of either being gay or straight? Seriously, sexuality is a spectrum. Some people are bi, some are pan, some are omni, some are fluid, some are asexual, some simply call themselves queer, and some reject labels.
THIS
This! The label obsession is getting so old 🙁
It is very un-chic in Europe to sleep in the same bedroom.
Uhm, this I don’t get. I guess it depends on where you live in Europe.
Me too and I’ve been living in Europe for all my life! But I am peasant, dunno how they do it in the upper upper richest and chichest zones.
Gwen, I didn’t mean to say that labels are overrated in general. Actually labels can be very important to some people. The mainstream society is a very heteronormative one, consequently a lot of queer kids (and even adults) struggle to find out what it is, that is different about them in contrast to the main culture. So finally finding a word that (more or less) describes a part of their identity and finally being able to communicate the difference to others is a very powerful thing.
What I was criticizing however is the general ignorance of valid sexualities besides the homo-hetero binary and the constant erasure of said minorities. Which is a huge, huge problem because it leads to a lack of visibility, lack of representation, lack of community, and lack of much needed resources of any kind.
@*unf* Joan Jett: I get what you’re saying. Generally though I feel many are obsessed with labeling those, who doesn’t follow the norm. It’s either “straight” or “gay”, especially if you’re a man. I’ve not no problem with the terms straight or gay, the problem is that people ignore the nuances in between.
Oh I see, Gwen. We’re on the same page then 🙂
Yes. This gives me an excuse to post my favorite New Yorker article from a year or two ago:
http://nymag.com/news/features/benny-morecock-throuple/
Thanks, it was a good read, but also a weirdly unexpected one. When it first starts, I was thinking, it is going to be a personal intake on the indie porn industry, but then it turns out to be about men being rich, poly, stable, and boring, haha.
It’s the New Yorker, talking about NYC gay men. Of course it’s going to be bourgeois. I still like it, though.
Haha, yes I enjoyed it as well. But my mind went from the excitement about “wow, naughty” to “oh. no. just a stable relationship.” 😀 It’s nice tough to see poly people being recognized in the media. In a non-judgmental way, I mean.
Could not agree with this comment more.
Yayyyy!
Andre Forever.
People take fashon advice from a guy that wears wrinkled yellow tents in public?
Yeah, that is my biggest and only criticism.
FANCY wrinkled yellow tents!
Raw silk, dahhling. *finger snap*
that was a very entertaining read. unfortunately, I only know of him from ANTM and he was awesome.
I love him, he is so funny and full of character.
I don’t know anything about him except from this article, but he seems oddly fascinating. The Maureen Dowd stuff is funny.
I have always liked him and felt sorry that he couldn’t really wear the fashion he loved so much. It’s nice to know he feels great about himself. Reminds me that I shouldn’t assume how other people feel.
OMG, the Maureen Dowd stuff is amazing.
I just assumed he was gay, didn’t give it a second thought.
Wouldn’t you just love to hear a conversation between ALT and Lagerfeld? Love ALT because he’s not afraid to say what he thinks. I remember reading an article he wrote several years ago about the clothes he was packing his huge Louis Vuitton trunk for Paris fashion week. Anyone who travels with a LV trunk is awesome!!
“Tulle, so Blanche DuBois”
LOVE it!!!!
I know Andre would get me all the way “together” if he saw me schelping out in my fav exercise capris w/ a lil lint on them w/a faded tee and a Christian Dior silk scarf on my head..to make it all come together. LOL!!!
I wish we were friends
Haha, ‘Tulle. Blanche DuBois.’ was my favorite part as well.
J’adore ALT. He is fabulous and thoughtful and kind. Not just based on magazine articles, but also because I read the gulleys for THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA book and his character was the only one that showed any kindness to another person. I’m glad Stanley Tucci played him the same way in the film.
He does sound like he would be great fun to hang out with. I love just reading what he says……
What this guy should really reject are the hideous outfits he wears.
And he isn’t so original.
He has copied Demis Roussos.
Yes!! His clothes are fug!
I guess it’s like that old adage: those who can’t do, teach… lol
I had the same pearl-clutching reaction to learning Australian designer Alex Perry was married – to a woman. I’d always had him pinged as a flaming homosexual.
Sorry to be the contrarian, but he sounds pretentious. As for Anna being perfect – look at her, NO SHE IS NOT. That bob needs to go. It wasn’t stylish 30 years ago, when she first got it, and it’s not cute now. And her fascination with fur is a bit morbid. As for Andre, he needs to stop with the muu muus. I really don’t see why people worship these two as fashion icons. I guess being sheep is fashionable these days.
+1 – I know I’m probably just a hippie and in the minority here but think fashion is a collosal waste of money and talent. And Vogue is nothing but ads and ridiculous spreads of people wearing things that aren’t available and nobody can wear. I know it’s “art” but I can think of a lot more ways to practice art that are usable in daily life. This stuff ain’t. Except for Gaga and she’s not right. lol
I understand the lure of wearing exquisitely beautiful attire; it makes you feel good. Most of us do not have the means to wear what we’d like, but elevating ‘fashion’ to Art is not a stretch. The rich history of couture is a window to how the moneyed class lived and their perpetual indifference to us peasants endures today. Same as it ever was.
TULLE.BLANCHE.DUBOIS!!
I LIIIIVVVVEEE
Morrissey is like that, too. They just aren’t into sex.
Why are so many people literally obsessed with sex and a complete stranger’s sexual orientation?
So now when we apply for a job or meet people we are suppose to say,hello my name is John Doe and I am a heterosexual or hello my name is Jane Doe and I am a homosexual. So in today’s world we are defined first and foremost by our sexual orientation and not our accomplishments and talents?!
It is a strange obsession. Why does it matter? Why does anyone care?
Hi, I’m Judyjudy. I have sex with my husband in bed on Sunday afternoons or standing in the bathroom if we’re hiding from children.
Because heterosexuality is the default expectation of the mainstream society! Therefore it is in fact very important to queer people to communicate, that heterosexuality it is not true for them.
People usually don’t ask teenage girls, if they had a girlfriend yet. People don’t preach in the religious stetting, that heterosexuality is a sin. People do not ask invasive question, like for example, how you could be sure about being heterosexual when you haven’t had any sex with a same-gender partner yet. They don’t tell, that teenagers are too young to know about their hetero status. Parents don’t try to set up their children with people of the same gender as them. Nobody tells that heterosexuality is not real or just a silly phase. People don’t assume, that female heterosexual behavior is only for the sake of other girl’s attention.
Things like that make it important to talk about it! Simply to let family, friends and the extended social circle know, so they would stop and adjust.
Also being in the closet is harmful in so many ways: Isolation, shame, guild, self-hatred, depression, alcohol and drug abuse, and even suicide attempts are at much higher rates among queer folks.
Further it is important for queers to recognize each other – for community and mating reasons. And as they usually don’t wear rainbows across their chests, there is a need to actually speak up 😉
You raise some good points.
Reading that part about Anna Wintour in her underwear made me have a mental image of Mr. Burns popping out of that birthday cake naked. eww.
I thought of when Mr. Burns was staying with the Simpsons so that Marge could get a sense of his essence in order to paint him. Then there was the scene wherein she ended up walking in on him in the buff while she was going about her business and his liver-spotted frailty inspired her.
‘He’s evil, but he’ll die…so I like it!. -Miss Hoover(?)
I’ve seen him a lot on ANTM, I like him in general, but I hate the snotty stuff he says sometimes. Really, he thinks people need to wear gloves in the summer? I sure don’t see him wearing them ever. I think that like many people who are insecure about something like their weight or upbringing, he pretends to have some super perfection snooty taste and advice, but at the end of the day, it’s nothing but high falutin talk for somebody who wears nothing but choir robes.
I love that him and Anna are best friends. Something about this alliance makes me believe she is human.
Can someone please explain this to me? How did this guy ever get to be some kind of fashion arbiter? He tears people apart for their fashion choices yet he’s a grown man who wears caftans and velvet slippers in public. I don’t get this at all. Whether or not he’s gay doesn’t interest me. He’s just a guy.
The more important question though: Why do you think, there is something wrong with wearing caftans and velvet slippers?
He has started from the bottom and worked/assisted along some of MOST iconic people in the fashion world/historical figureheads. Also he has been one of the REAL glitterati and has been on all the scenes from Studio 54 all the way up to the highest Parisian chic back to the funky American fashion scene. He is a brilliant writer and critic and is a happening personality. His opinion and knowledge of fashion is EVERYTHING.
Long live Mr. Talley. NUFF RESPECT.
I had the honour of having him walk right by me say excuse me at fashion week in NYC last fall. Major moment. Haha
Also there is an awesome full length article about him in the new Vanity Fair. It explains it all.
Because the guy wearing a caftan and velvet slippers is going to have a way more interesting opinion on fashion than the guy who’s not wearing a caftan and velvet slippers.
I love him. He will not be hectoring …….. Why limit oneself with labels?
He is gay. Nuf said. What scares me is the gold “whatever” he is wearing, much akin to the garb of a remote tribal leader, or better yet, the male mumu of the teens.
Maybe he’s more asexual and has little interest either way. That does happen.
Andre’s such a great interview… he gave a talk to Oxford on youtube, it’s amazing! He has literally met everyone and I love that he is excited by it tells great stories about all the legends he has encountered.
On the gay note, he’s been bullied a lot by his peers. There was an infamous New Yorker piece that can be found online. I believe it’s from the 80s and he was profiled. At one point, Lou Lou de la Falaise calls him a n*gger dandy loudly and he just has to eat it. Very sad.