Even though this is still a huge story, even one week later, I’m already kind of tired. Last week, GQ released a series of highlights from an interview they did with Duck Dynasty patriarch Phil Robertson. The interview was incredibly offensive to many groups, including (but not limited to) the LGBT community, African-Americans, Buddhists, Muslims, residents of Chicago and communists. A&E suspended Phil, then the rest of the cast went on strike basically, saying that they wouldn’t continue filming without Phil. The controversy got so big that conservative politicians were chiming in, because of course they were. So, what happened over the weekend? Some bullet points:
*Some Republican dude said Phil Robertson is just like Rosa Parks. Yes. That happened.
*Bristol Palin has an opinion! The single mother with the new face blogged about Duck Dynasty, writing in part: “Everyone needs to leave Phil Robertson alone for expressing his beliefs. I think it’s so hypocritical how the LGBT community expects every single flippen person to agree with their life style. This flies in the face of what makes America great – people can have their own beliefs and own opinions and their own ways of life. I hate how the LGBT community says it’s all about ‘love’ and ‘equality.’ However, if you don’t agree with their lifestyle, they spread the most hate. It is so hypocritical it makes my stomach turn. They need to learn how to respect others’ opinions and not just jump to the conclusion that everyone who doesn’t support homosexuality and gay marriage is homophobic…If I were Duck Dynasty, I would take my show to another channel.” Idiot.
*Mike Huckabee chimed in too, saying: “Political correctness has made it so that if you want to take a point of view that is traditional that holds to steadfast old fashioned biblical Christian values that are also by the way values of traditional Judaism and Islam then somehow you’re just supposed to shut up and keep that to yourself. But if you want to advocate for same-sex marriage we’re supposed to be very tolerant.”
*Other cable channels are hoping that A&E dumps Duck Dynasty. The Pursuit Channel and The Hunt Channel have both offered to give Duck Dynasty a home if A&E dumps the show.
*Cracker Barrel carried various Duck Dynasty-themed products in their restaurant chain and a few days ago, Cracker Barrel announced that they were pulling the products. Cue the well-organized “backlash against the backlash” and Cracker Barrel had to go back to stocking Duck Dynasty stuff after they got thousands of angry emails and calls from Duck Dynasty-supporters.
*The Daily Mail has a very interesting exclusive on how the Duck Dynasty people really feel, allegedly. Apparently, the family feels that A&E “hung them out to dry” and the family thinks A&E is trying bring the family “back into line” after the family “kept pushing their… Christian beliefs.” Here’s an interesting factoid: an A&E rep was with Phil during his GQ interview, and the family doesn’t understand why the rep didn’t stop the interview. Because… THAT would have censoring someone, perhaps? Phil knew what he was saying and he’s a big boy. I don’t really get it? Anyway, the whole piece reads like “The Martyrdom of Duck Dynasty” so it’s a good bet that this did come from someone in the family.
*Ah, this is interesting – A&E let it leak to TMZ that while an A&E publicist was on hand for part of the interview, Phil and the GQ reporter went off alone to ride ATVs and that’s when Phil made his most incendiary remarks.
*Last night, Phil made a “public statement” – or rather, he spoke at a Bible study group and The Daily Mail has some quotes from his speech. You can read the stuff here. He said: “I love all men and women. I am a lover of humanity, not a hater.” He also said something about Jesus being able to save people from being gay.
Basically, same old stuff that’s been playing out in the comment section of any outlet covering this stuff. It makes me crazy when the wingnuts lamely try to turn the situation around to “The people preaching tolerance are the bullies/racists/intolerants!” Again, Phil can say whatever he wants. He has the right to his faith and his opinions. Just as I have the right to the opinion that A) Phil Robertson is an offensive bigot, and B) the people supporting him are making some of the worst arguments ever.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
The KKK must be so proud. A&E is in on this charade, BTW. No way they aren’t.
I, for one, am sick of the American Taliban and their creepy creeping Christian Sharia.
And as a general reminder to all, this country is governed by the Constitution – NOT THE BIBLE. Period.
Technically the constitution got thrown out years ago. Ask Edward Snowden.
That’s right, now put your money in the basket, pay your taxes and get your ass back to work!
“They need to learn how to respect others’ opinions and not just jump to the conclusion that everyone who doesn’t support homosexuality … is homophobic…”
B*tch, that is the definition of homophobic. You are so stupid. And I don’t throw that word around lightly. I am not name-calling; you are actually stupid.
Amen!
“I think it’s so hypocritical how the LGBT community expects every single flippen person to agree with their life style.”
What is the “gay lifestyle”? My gay friends live the same lifestyle as myself, the only difference is who we choose to sleep with.
Correction: “choose”?
Also, there is no way to get around that rant, he didn’t simply say he disagreed with the “gay life style”, he equated being gay with bestiality and murderous feelings, hatred, worshiping birds and a host of other examples in his verbal diarrhea.
“Women with women, men with men, they committed indecent acts with one another, and they received in themselves the due penalty for their perversions,” Robertson continued. “They’re full of murder, envy, strife, hatred. They are insolent, arrogant, God-haters. They are heartless, they are faithless, they are senseless, they are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil. That’s what you have 235 years, roughly, after your forefathers founded the country. So what are you gonna do Pennsylvania? Just run with them? You’re doing to die. Don’t forget that”.
At any rate, Fini, as far as I’m concerned. The KKK is allowed to exist in this country, and so be it, he shares their views.
Chose?
Are you correcting the spelling or the choice of word?
That gay people choose their orientation. Sorry, I didn’t intend to sound like an ass, but I did.
I’m going to wade in here, TOK, and NO I’m not wearing camo duck waders!
I think she meant you don’t ‘choose’ to be gay; you are simply born wired to love the same sex, just the same as those born to love the opposite sex, or those born celibate.
The word “choose” implies that you can decide what sex you are attracted to, or not. Kitten, I know you didn’t mean it like that!
No none of us choose our sexual orientation, this is true. But we all have the choice to sleep with who we want to.
Okay, I’m here to admit that I do, indeed, have a “lifestyle.”
I’m an educator, a runner, a vegetarian, a voracious reader, a social justice volunteer, and someone who watches way too much reality TV (excluding Duck Dynasty).
Being gay isn’t a lifestyle, exactly
I don’t poke my nose into what others do in the bedroom(or wherever), gay or straight. If it’s between consenting adults, I really don’t care.
Funny how many people against homosexuality are all for anal sex though. Like a female bum is so different from a guy bum.
Clearly, though, TOK wasn’t intending to marginalize the gay community by pointing out that people of all orientations make “choices” about whom we sleep with and how we present ourselves publicly – which does not mean our “lifestyles” are any different from our neighbors. There’s enough ugliness in the world that we don’t need to seek it out where it doesn’t exist.
Thanks, bettyrose 😉
I felt the start of a semantical argument brewing…
I had already apologized.
http://intheparlor.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/what-you-believe-about-homosexuality-doesnt-matter/
Came across this article last night and I think it’s a very important read and one to pass around to Duck supporting friends.
I had a full body cringe reading Bristol Palin quote.
I agree with your thoughts on Bristol. Also, Bristol can’t be ignorant to the fact that “disagreeing with their lifestyle” isn’t just a feeling… when it comes from the extreme right that phrase means LEGISLATING those feelings into laws that treat homosexual citizens differently from straight citizens when it comes to marriage, benefits, insurance, adoption, discrimination in the work place, etc.
If they were just their “feewings” and they weren’t trying to force those feelings into law, it would be a completely different thing.
EXACTLY! I have Christian beliefs–however, I don’t get a f-ck who you sleep with as long as it is consensual, age appropriate (i.e. no one underage), and you take care of any kids that may result from it. Other than that, have at it.
I believe that we should not make any sort of legislation against gay marriage, being gay, etc. I think that’s wrong. I’m one of those people that even if I believed being gay/gay marriage or having an abortion was wrong, I would still vote to have gay marriage, to help fund Planned Parenthood, etc–because for one, I think that we shouldn’t be able to push our beliefs on even ONE person. I also believe that I’m not the judge, so it’s really none of my business if someone is gay or has an abortion.
Because I would rather someone have an abortion, instead of, first off going to get a back alley abortion and getting injured/dying in the process, or having that kid and treating him/her like he/she doesn’t exist (which is what my grandpa did to my mom) or abusing him/her, or telling the kid when you’re mad that ‘I wish I’d gotten that abortion’ (which has happened to someone I know), and so on.
I heart this comment of yours so much that if it were a woman who found me attractive, I’d gay marry it.
Dudes, your missing the point… his statements are not facts, they are his beliefs. And you can believe any kind of crazy shirt you want. And there is no way to prove one way or another with whom God agrees, so it is pointless to argue. The point is to be TOLERANT of other people’s beliefs. Mr Robertson says he is and I believe him. Now the objective becomes replacing his archaic beliefs with more progressive ones, and you will never accomplish that by calling names and attacking a person’s income stream.
I disagree actually. I think most change is made not through some ideals of ‘tolerance’ but in direct financial impact.
A&E is a corporation with interests to protect. Robertson put those interests in jeopardy. He is a liability now, not an asset. Therefore he is let go.
He can of course believe whatever he wants. I don’t actually care about replacing his beliefs with new ones. People like him are dying out anyway. But he shouldn’t be financially rewarded for being racist and homophobic. Otherwise the vast majority of Americans who don’t think Black people were better under Jim Crow and don’t think homosexuals are the same as murderers or animal abusers would boycott A&E for financially rewarding an absolute prick.
Being racist and homophobic is a liability. He chose to make himself one. Now he can deal with the consequences like a big boy.
The Rosa Parks? THAT Rosa Parks?!? *vigorous temple rub* these people dont fucking get context, huh?
*chants to herself* But they are dying down, People like this are dying down
That’s what I always keep telling myself when I’m really dzien about the state of our society – people like this are dying out. These are the last flailings of those who hate our changing society. We will have equal marriage, universal healthcare, and whites will become the minority. There’s nothing that these bigots can do about that. So, that’s reassuring. But then I think about how people like that are twisting the minds of their kids and grand kids, who never even had the chance to have open minds and have these harmful, divisive views thrust upon them. BLARG.
ITA – things ARE GETTING BETTER. In the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s, I remember, things were different – less tolerant – people were often physically attacked for their (even rumored) sexuality where I grew up, which was in a very liberal area. People were truly afraid to come ‘out of the closet’ for years – I am not saying this is still not the case for many in many places, but I agree, things are getting better. My son is a freshman in the largest high school in our state, with enrollment over 3000 – and MANY (not all), but several – young people there are refreshingly tolerant of each other. My son has friends who have ‘come out’ and are supported. He also hears crude talk and angry attitudes (about women, sex, and I am sure other crap). He stands against it – so do his friends. What strikes me as WONDERFUL is the idea that battling against the hateful and intolerant are young folks with open minds that include supporting the unique feels like a better balance than back in the days when my best friend hid his feelings about himself while worrying he would be ostracized – or worse – if the “truth came out.”
Tolerance is a two way street, does Mr. Robinson not have the right to his beliefs? Shouldn’t he be able to express his beliefs without fear of persecution or discrimination (fired from his job). Just as a gay person should be able to come out free from the same fears?
It used to be that this kind of bickering was looked down upon in all cases except amoungst chickens, but now we cheer as one group or another takes their turn in the pit of shame and we all point and call names as if our belief is somehow better.
Now go home and make a sandwich and think about what you have done!
Dying *off*. People like this are dying *off*.
‘Off’ or ‘Out’, IDGAF as long as they go away! I have to believe this too.
Unfortunately, they might not be. I have seen plenty of teenagers and people in their twenties and thirties defending Phil and saying they agree with him. On my facebook, every single person who has written about this situation defended Phil. Every. Single. One. Ugh, I think the people I know who don’t agree just decided it wasn’t worth the fight.
‘fraid not- guy who made that numbing statement is 39 and-of course- running for Congress. Don’t wish an early death on anyone, but sure wish someone would educate this guy re how off the wall this comparison is!
One hopes so…unfortunately, stupidity has a real advantage when it comes to replicating itself. Screwing is fun, and screwing with no regard for consequences is easier than worrying about birth control or exercising SELF-control. I won’t even get into zealots like the Duggars because they’re a blip in the numbers; people who are morons simply because it’s the path of least resistance are the breeding ground – literally – of tomorrow’s ills.
As far as Phil Robertson goes…. his First Amendment rights have NOT been violated in any way, shape, or form, and A&E is completely within its rights to censor a public representative of its brand. We’re all as fully entitled to voice our disapproval and rejection of Phil’s views as he is free to express them.
That said, there’s a certain hypocrisy involved in putting backwoods, Bible-thumping bigots on TV, then freaking out when they act like backwoods, Bible-thumping bigots. A&E and its advertisers were plenty willing to give these people a platform and make millionaire celebrities of them, for as long as it was profitable. Robertson didn’t shock them, he just embarrassed them by letting a little too much of the truth slip out in front of company.
Sigh.
The Palin freaks and their minions, Bobby Jindal, the patrons of Cracker Barrel–they’re happy about this. It gives them a chance to whine about how they are persecuted. This is their Christmas (not holiday, I said CHRISTmas gift) and it is going to just keep giving if they have their way about it.
Like I said: sigh.
I got an email foward from my Grandma talking about making a point to say “Merry Christmas!” and not “Happy Holidays” because the PC police were coming to town.
It was all I could do to not reminder her that I have ALWAYS said “Happy Holidays” because as a child, it was shorter than “Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!”. People need to stop getting so offended by this pretend war on Christmas. It simply doesn’t exist!
I’m Christian and believe in respect and reverence for all celebrations and faiths, whether it be Kwanzaa, Islam, Judaism, etc.
I don’t get the “Happy Holidays” hate and why one is expected to make a choice between one phrase or another (Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas) instead of accepting both.
It’s really amazing how ignorant people are. And incredibly sad.
The same people who scream “First Amendment!” when bigots of any variety get backlash for their views are willing to go after others, like the ACLU for example, for saying things that don’t comport with their view points. Read the Consitition and its interpreting texts, case law, etc. And then get back to us. At least learn when the First Amendment actually applies. (Oh, wait, that would never happen. That would require thinking for oneself.)
Do you have any idea how hilarious it is when people like you accuse others of not thinking for themselves? People like you who seem to follow a script when condemning those “ignorant bigots” (two words that are ALWAYS in these types of posts), yet you are quick to jump on others without ever noticing that the things you say sound exactly like the things that every other “progressive” says in any given situation. You want diversity but that never includes diversity of thought or opinion, or even giving the courtesy of disagreeing without nasty name calling.
Also, sorry but I’m not keen to take advice on the Constitution from someone who cannot even spell the word correctly! Have you ever read it, or did you get your talking points spoon fed to you in college like most of your kind does?
Ed note: troll banned
So, there’s nothing ignorant about claiming that African Americans were happier before desegregation? Also, I can’t help but wonder when the US government has locked up Mr. Robertson for expressing his views? I missed that. Because that’s what the Constitution protects us from. Not from being called out for being a racist homophobe. Actions have consequences, whether you like it or not. If he’s willing to defend his values in the face of opposition, what’s the problem? That you can’t force others to tolerate intolerance? Too bad, liberals have the right to let our wallets and remotes speak for us as much as conservatives do, don’t like it? Get a militia together, kill off our government and start that christian dictatorship you all fantasize about, until then, live with the values our founding father’s instilled in us. Which does include the right to speak out against people who decry the dissolving of Jim Crow laws and claim that “gays have murder in their hearts” what ever the crap that means.
Chewy, he did not say that, he simply said he did not see it personally. Remember, we are discussing BELIEFS, not facts, and the only difference is perspective. You warn that Mr Robertson’s actions have consequences, but expressing his beliefs should not. Just as your employer should not read your post and decide to fire you because your beliefs are different than his. Oh, but your belief is the “right” one… says who? And no man can say his actions are not influenced by his beliefs, they are.
So that leaves us with just one task (and I hope we can agree on this), to make sure that a persons belief does not adversely affect others that might believe differently.
Now that I’m seeing all the “before” pictures of these rich a$$holes before they decided to cash in on a “reality” show. They look more like the Romney family in those photos. What a bunch of dumb-asses who buy into this b.s.
http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/entertainment/news/never-seen-photo-duck-dynasty-stars-fame-and-beards
P.S. — A&E had a DD marathon on this weekend. Because, of course.
No, before the show they would shave during the off-season. That’s kinda common with hunters; at least the one’s I know.
But I thought someone said they grew their beards long for religious purposes?
Never heard that? Here is where Willie talked about it at one point.
http://www.parade.com/31704/viannguyen/20-duck-dynasty-willie-robertson-beard-maintenance-reality-tv-dealing-with-fame/
Again, most that I know grow them (or let them get longer) during the season for the warmth. My husband watched them long before they had the A&E show and they just did a hunting show. Only difference was that their beards were a little shorter.
I have hunters in my family, and some do grow beards during deer season to keep their faces warm while they hunt. Trimmed beards, not long unkempt ZZ Top beards and wild, unkempt hair (which is unbiblical btw).
It isn’t exactly subzero in Louisiana.
It’s all a facade.
These guys are multimillionaire preppy and privileged bigots.
Bristol’s comments made me snort. She rants on the ‘GLAAD agenda’ but then in the same breath says what makes America great is having different lifestyles and beliefs. The girl is dumb as a freaking post.
But she’s purty. Isn’t that all that matters when it comes to the womens?
Fake plastic face purty is the best kind ’cause we can’t encourage womenfolk to know they’re beautiful. They might get uppity, and then how can we keep down?
I wish this would end, and I wish it had never started. I guess I want to stick my head in the sand and not see the divisiveness in this country, but sadly even within my own family there are people yelling “free speech! Liberals are intolerant “. My mom and sister and all riled up about these family members and I’m just saying ignore it, they are not going to change their minds. It’s all disheartening.
If wishes were horses then beggars would ride,
If turnips were swords I’d have one by my side.
If ‘ifs’ and ‘ands’ were pots and pans
There would be no need for tinker’s hands!
If you keep silent, then they are encouraged and end up believing you agree with them. For every one person that doesn’t speak the truth to a lie, there are two more emboldened to spread their hate with impunity.
I’m surprised but I’ve notice most of the Phil Robertson died down as quickly as it started in my Facebook feed. I live in Texas so most of the people I know are pretty conservative. I do have one cousin that won’t let it go though, bless her heart. Lol
I’ve stated it here before, this is way beyond a LGBT issue – people are simply cherry picking his comments. As this post states, he was an equal opportunity offender and offended many. This guy should not be anyone’s hero or martyr.
One of my friends pointed out that he reduced women, including his wife, to nothing but vaginas.
It really was a grab bag interview of offensive comments.
That’s is another great observation. This guy just kept on giving in this interview! Yikes!
You’d think if God was so against homosexuality he would’ve made fewer gay people, or maybe asked his only son to clarify the matter when he had the opportunity instead of, y’know, Jesus never mentioning it AT ALL in any of his sermons.
Love thy neighbour, people, regardless of what they do with their genitals!
Your comment made me think of this:
http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/if-god-hates-gays-why-are-we-so-cute.jpg
Yes, I appreciate YOU preaching YOUR version of Christianity, thanks! Because your way is the correct and acceptable way, right? Are you a theologian? How many years have you put in studying, translating and immersing yourself in Christianity? How many saints can you name? How many of their works have you read? Are you fluent in Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, or Latin? Do you really and truly believe that YOU know more about the Bible and what Jesus said and did than the ancient priests, etc who spent their ENTIRE LIVES devoted to God?
I would be willing to bet that at MOST, you have read some of the Bible. Probably not even all of it, yet you think you are some kind of expert! Are you aware of your grandiosity and extreme hubris at all?? Somehow I doubt it. Most people who condemn “conservatives” and people who actually attend (a real, not a PC) church seem to be oblivious to their hypocrisy. You appear to be no exception. Sorry.
Ed note: troll banned
What are you talking about? Because she might not know the name of every saint, she’s not allowed to have an opinion? What an inclusive and loving religion you subscribe to. *eyeroll*
@Sun I was under the impression Christians didn’t interest themselves in the Saints. Apparently that is only the practice of Catholics like myself and the Eastern Orthodox traditions that many other Christians often judge as backwards anyways. In any case knowing the names of all the saints/ feast days etc which let me tell you I know many from my strict Catholic upbringing does not have any relevance to this conversation at all. Most of the saints you speak of are not mentioned in the bible anyways and knowing their names doesn’t make you a better Christian or whatever. I don’t think Phil was raised as Catholic or Orthodox or any of the dominations that actually recognize saints so you bring that up is completely pointless. Phil probably doesn’t even know how to read all those ancient languages either like the so many other Christians. But that doesn’t stop them from making judgements on the bible, now does it?
As a black woman I am not okay with many of the biblical verses that have been touted around to support racism and homophobia. It is all agendas and I am tired of people throwing the word Politically Correct around like it is dirty. I am sorry but there is nothing wrong with human to human decency. I don’t appreciate this man trying to say how black people were happier back then. My grandparents dealt with a lot of BS when they were growing up in the 1920’s and 30’s. They tolerated that sort of existence but it didn’t mean they loved the difficulties faced in everyday like and enjoyed the hurtfulness of being judged solely on skin colour instead of what they had to offer as a human being.
I am tried of people also trying to dictate who other people can marry. I may have been raised in the strictness and devotion that comes with a South American form of Catholicism but not once did my mother or grandmother ever in still in me that Jesus message was one of shunning homosexuals/ treating women as though they are inferior. I was never taught that was the Christian message just like I was never taught a lot of things like how apparently blacks are from the devil or that God does not permit race mixing etc. etc. People can point out the quotes to me all the time where these things have been supposedly written but all it is really is those people spouting their hateful agendas and trying to create divisions for their own evil purposes.
There is nothing politically correct about making those who are considered societal outsiders feel like actual human beings for once. It is called acceptance and kindness and the decent thing that ever person should be able to afford to another.
Oh Bristol, STFU seriously. It’s one thing to disagree with the LGBT lifestyle but it’s an entirely different situation when you act like these people are less than/don’t deserve the same rights, they are human beings. Idiot. And don’t even get me started on his racist comments, despicable.
I can’t read anymore about this, it’s gotten f-kin ridiculous and when a few Palins support you it’s time to pack it up and go home.
Don’t Christian value include not being judgmental?
The Duck Patriarch can say anything he wants to say. That’s freedom of speech. But he has to be ready to accept the repercussions if he publicly mouths off about his prejudices. And the politicians need to STFU. We are entitled to speak freely in this country, we’re not entitled to star in television shows. Those who are claiming his constitutional rights are violated need to read the Constitution.
And I agree, A&E was in on it.
It’s really hard to live by actual Christian values, though. Because then you have to like, care about the poors and worry about the environment and stuff. And Jesus kept talking about being nice to everyone, even when they’re not nice to you, but that’s like, suuuuuuper tough because Nancy in HR is just a bitch, ok? She’s just a bitch and I’m totally okay with judging everything about her and her lacking hygiene even though I don’t know anything about her real life or what she’s going through and I can’t even spell “empathy”, let alone feel it. And the gays should just be happy that some people will let them get married or whatever and STFU. Besides, it’s not like a real marriage because duh, it’s Adam and *Eve*, not Adam and *Steve*. I don’t care what the gays do but when I see two men kissing I go like, squick inside because that’s weird and yucky to me and I have the right to blast my disgust everywhere in public but those two people expressing love and affection need to just like, get to a church and bathe in holy water or whatever.
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and think that Jesus is probably of ashamed of me but then I shrug it off because whatever, he was a hippie anyway and the only parts of the Bible I really remember are the parts where God burned down towns when everyone made him mad. I really hope Derek bought me that Louis Vuitton bag for Christmas.
Nailed it! *SMDH at your Bullseye*
I can all but guarantee you, Algernon, that Jesus is and was horrified by all the hate that has been spewed, for centuries, in his name.
+20
I love you for this comment.
Just picture a wookie giving you a standing ovation. That’s what’s happening in my house right about now.
-mic drops-
*slow clap*
Oh yeah he is just like Rosa Parks I guess the Postal Service should make a postage stamp to honor him.
lol
Come on, what about the comments he made about blacks in the pre-civil rights, pre-welfare era when They were All Happy and Singing? Haven’t heard much outrage about that. They were better off, right Massa Phil? By the way, men with excessive facial hair All Look Alike–like Charlie Manson, like Hiding Something, maybe?
Because those statements can’t be given a pass because of his unchristlike “faith,” whereas his homophobic comments and attitudes toward women can be excused because they’re faith-driven.
There’s a reason why the poutraged are ignoring the racist comments.
I’d LOVE for him to say that to my biracial grandma’s face. My grandma is in her late seventies, was born in the tail end of the depression. She is part black and native american, and we didn’t even know that (the native american part) for YEARS because her mother was registered in the census as ‘mulatto’–because native americans were treated worse than blacks where she was from. My grandma grew up starving, had to go to a segregated school—her kids ( all except the youngest two) had to go to segregated schools, and so on…..
I guarantee you, she wasn’t singing and dancing around in Tennessee in the 1940s through the 60s when she couldn’t go into the same movie theaters, stores, resturants, etc because she was black. Such an idiot.
He was poor—he called himself poor white trash. From my understanding, they are some of the biggest racists because the middle class/richer white people wouldn’t have nothing to do with them, so they took it out on the people below them–black people.
The whole point of free speech is that someone can express an opinion with which others disagree – even vehemently – but he is still allowed to express it without fear of reprisal. I don’t watch Duck Dynasty, and I honestly know nothing about these people but I read the GQ article, , and Robertson merely listed what his faith teaches him are sins; he didn’t compare homosexuality to bestiality at all. If liberals insist that everyone must be tolerant, then they too, must be tolerant of those like Robertson who offer opinions with which they don’t agree. The backlash which A&E is experiencing should indicate that a sizeable portion of the population, while perhaps not agreeing with his views, nevertheless believes he has every right to express them with impunity.
I mean this very seriously because this is the most common defense of Phil Robertson and what he said, and I would like to know how someone who defends him feels about this.
Yes, he can say whatever he wants. But if he came out and said something blatantly racist, would that also be okay? If he’d used the N-word, or said something not just misguided (like the Happy & Singin’ Black Folks thing, which is not uncommon for a certain generation in the south, it’s how they covered up institutionalized racism when people Robertson’s age were children) but actually openly racist, would you still be defending him?
These are the same type of people who defended PAula Deen. I’m sure they’d be fine with the word.
Ah yes. I was waiting for this. Someone always pulls the “I thought liberals were suppose to be tolerant?” card.
The Right always falls back on this in an attempt to silence the Left.
I’m a liberal and I feel ZERO obligation to remain silent about people whose opinions I strongly disagree with, especially those who hold outdated and bigoted views cloaked in the guise of religion.
In fact, liberal by definition means open to new ideas and opinions and a willingness to discard traditional values.
“Tolerance” does not mean that I can’t have an opinion or that I must blindly support someone who’s opinions are antithetical to mine.
@TOK
How dare those liberals be intolerant of my intolerance! 😉
Without fear of LEGAL reprisal. From the government. It does not mean you can say whatever you want and be free from criticism or a response from those who disagree, or without repercussions in your professional life.
It blows my mind how often that needs to be clarified every time someone makes statements like this.
Freedom of speech means that he can’t be arrested for stating his views. It does not free him from personal consequences or mean that a private company has to continue employing him. If I work for Fox News or the Wall Street Journal and then give an interview where I say I agree with the ideals of socialism and that the right re a bunch of rabid hate mongers and war criminals I am probably going to lose my job. Similarly, if I curse out my boss, I can;t be arrested because freedom of speech. But I am probably going to lose my job. People have the right to protest what A&E for firing him, but they had every right to do so.
And that is how freedom of speech works.
Did I miss the part where the government arrested him for what he said and violated his first amended rights? I mean, I was busy this weekend, but still, I probably would have heard something about it by now.
That is not what the First Amendment means at all. Methinks you need a basic Civics lesson. Wiki it and educate yourself.
@Epiphany,
Do you even know what your username means?
It means a sudden and intense realization of some great truth, where the mind has been opened up to see, and understand things that were once not clear. Either you are a master of irony and trolling us all, or you are…….(If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything.)
+1000 I was hoping someone would notice this!
I’m well aware of what it means, that’s why I chose it. No where in my statement did I say that I agree with this Robertson person – I know nothing about his show, and have no intention of watching it. I find many of Robert Mapplethorpe’s exhibits highly offensive as well, but I’ll argue with anyone who suggests he doesn’t have the right to display them. As my screen name suggests, I have absolutely no problem allowing anyone to voice their opinion on any subject, be it politics, morals, the existence of the Loch Ness monster – anything. If yours, or anyone’s opinions differ from Phil Robertson, fine, express away, but don’t try to stop him from expressing his opinion, no matter what you think of it. Regardless of what you or I think, the backlash leveled at A&E indicates a considerable number of people don’t want Robertson silenced – that doesn’t equate with them agreeing with what he said. Perhaps if you get over the notion that the only opinions which matter are the ones with which you agree, you’ll have an epiphany of your own.
And, no, I’m not trolling -amazing how anyone who strays from the (left wing) party line on here gets tagged with that.
No one is stopping him from expressing his opinion. He has not only made the statements in a publication that can be viewed around the world, he was able to make his apology and statement, again, easily viewed from around the world.
The idea that anyone is trying to sincerely “silence him” is not factual.
He is employed by A&E, and they are concerned about their products being associated with such views. The same standard applies to ALL companies (see woman who was recently fired for tweet on Africa and AIDS). If anyone publicly shames their employer and what they stand for, anyone runs a similar risk. He is not being held to a higher standard because he isn’t “liberal”.
(***For the record, being on board with gay rights does not make one liberal. A person can be moderate, conservative, democrat, libertarian etc. and still be a supporter of equal civil rights for ALL Americans***).
@TheOriginalKitten Kinda? Lol, please understand that I’m not at all trying to be a theology expert by any means, only giving my answers based on experience around me.
Yes, all of it is sin. Yes, he also did all of those sins. EVERYONE sins. What he has done is accept Christ in his life and works hard to try to live as sinless as possible (which he knows is impossible, because again, everyone is a sinner). Basically means that once born again, your sins will be forgiven and you will choose to live as Christlike as possible. While you still sin, you won’t LIKE it anymore. Does that make sense?
I think your reading comprehension could use a little work. He most certainly did lump homosexuality in with bestiality as an unnatural perversion and a sin against God. He also said that ‘the blacks’ were happier before they had any civil rights.
And, as others have said, nowhere in the Bill of Rights does it say that employers can’t fire an employee for bringing their brand into disrepute or making the work environment toxic. And nowhere does it say that private citizens have no right to speak out against hate speech or boycott businesses that support it.
Duck Dinosaur can’t be thrown in jail for his views and he isn’t being ushered into a ‘free speech zone’. The Bill of Rights is working just fine for him.
Actually, Phil did not “lump homosexuality in with bestiality as an unnatural perversion and sin against God”–the bible did that, whether anyone likes that or not. That is what it says. There are no charts or tables or mathematical formulas to determine the “level” of sin. Sin is sin, regardless of whether it’s stealing a piece of gum or screwing a donkey. That is the way he (and many like him) interpret the bible. He made a list which also included “sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman” and “adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers”.
It seems that many people who are not religious or are not religious to that degree quite understand that to the Robertsons, sin has no degree and no category.
*This comment does not necessarily represent MY feelings on the matter; I have many people close to me that believe in the same fashion and I am familiar with it.
Yeah. The Taliban feels much the same way.
I also know people who think like this. They parse and choose the parts of the Bible they like and ignore the others. You prove to me that Phil never eats shellfish, never wears mixed fiber clothing, never works on the Sabbath, never eats pork, and makes sure that his wife does not wear gold or pearls or costly garments. Those prohibitions are in Leviticus, the same place that “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” comes from.
So BS that people like this see a ‘sin as a sin’. They are awfully forgiving of themselves but more than happy to make life a living hell for large parts of the population.
Phil wants to live and breathe the Bible? More power to him. But use it as a weapon to torment others? I have a problem with that.
@ anonymous-“sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman” is a sin, according to Robertson, unless of course it is he who is doing the sinning, which he did by incessantly cheating on his wife.
But then again, he goes to Church and believes in God, and he’s going to Heaven according to his logic so who cares if he sins as long as he repents?
Did I get the gist of it?
@Mich
Just a minor quibble–that part where you spoke about Phil eating shellfish, etc–that’s done away with. In the Bible, in the book of Acts, if I’m remembering right, Paul had a vision where God told him that the Old Testament law was done away with i.e. they can eat fish, pork, etc.
And as for the verses in the Old Testament about women menustrating, not being able to be near each other, etc–that was always explained to me as a way of keeping disease out of the camp. One commandment that comes to mind is whenever they disposed of anything dead, they had to wash themselves and their clothes 2 or 3 times–to keep disease out.
Yes, he has every right to express those views, but A & E have every right not to air his views. Its their network, they can choose who they give airtime to. He still has the freedom to his opinions and free speech, but A & E are under no obligation to *give him a PLATFORM* for said opinions. I’m surprised people seem to believe A & E should be forced to air his opinions. A & E Producers, Executives and Directors and the CEO make the rules, not the reverse.
I can’t deal with these gross duck people and their followers today.
To keep the balance this morning I’m offering up a multicultural, non-denominational, LGBTQ-friendly glass of vegan eggnog to anyone who wants to join me in a holiday toast. Any takers?
*Accepts drink* Why thank you. I needed this. The cognitive dissonance that so many Duck Dynansty defenders are displaying is staggering.
What sickens me the most is my strong suspicion that this was all orchestrated by A&E to give the show more publicity.
Cheers to that and happy winter solstice!
MMmm, so refreshing! *slugs it down*
Cheers! 🙂
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”
— Voltaire
@ Cecilia
HahahHaha! Voltaire was a hedonistic reformer who immersed himself in the libertine (which BTW was decidedly debauched) sociability of Paris. It’s astoundingly ignorant to erroneously use Voltaire to frame a non existent First Amendment argument against condemning a racist, homophobic bigot.
Voltaire was also great friends with the famously gay Crown Prince Frederick (later King of Prussia) in Berlin, and lived for a time in his openly homosexual royal court in Berlin. Later, Voltaire lived with Frederick in his home in Sans-Soucci. – http://redroom.com/member/frank-sanello/writing/history-you-never-learned-in-school-0
I am well aware of who Voltaire was, that is why I found this quote pertinent in this instance. Thanks for your sanctimonious reply.
Hey Sloan – I think Cecilia was saying the same things you are. I didn’t read it as being a pro-rabid right. In fact, quite the opposite.
You’re right. I should have left off the ‘astoundingly ignorant’ part because it wasn’t necessary to make my point. Otherwise, my comment stands.
OK, Mich, let’s find out.
Cecilia are you pro or anti Phil Robertson?
There, fixed it.
@ Mitch…you are correct in your assessment…
If person A makes bigoted/racist statements, and person B says “hey, not cool, those statements are bigoted/racist…person B is suddenly intolerant and the real problem here? Ugh. I hate how some people try to make the original offender the victim. And if I see one more person crying about his free speech being violated…
I’ve seen a few conspiracy theories – this guy apparently has a book coming out, and A&E had a marathon of the show planned. A way to drum up publicity and “galvanize the base” for book sales?
Pretty much. Wish I’d seen your post before I posted mine.
Read NPRs take:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2013/12/19/255430555/duck-and-cover-what-exactly-is-the-point
I think from now on, whenever this type of argument arises, I will simply respond quietly, inside my head with, “O-KKK”, instead of “Okay”.
These people are actually, genuinely idiots. Christians are not being oppressed. Having to deal with consequences for spewing hateful things is not the same thing as !@#$ing segregation!
You could have added “Idiot.” after all of these statements.
I think its clear that the majority of the world does not share his beliefs which is why this story blew up in the first place. Does it really matter that this guy thinks the way he does? This story wouldn’t exist if it werent for the fact that the majority of the world has moved on to healthier attitudes. Must we witch hunt it to death? It’s pretty clear what the minority of opinion is in regards to the topics he discussed.
Yes. It does matter. The segment of society Phil is speaking for is actively working to legally suppress civil rights in this country. They have targeted teh gayz, blacks, immigrants, women, the poor and more. It matters.
This 100%. Well said.
THANK YOU.
How is Phil being witch hunted?
His views have been widely reported in the media and in a national magazine. He has an network entertainment show that has given him an international exposure and a platform on which to promote his other businesses.
It’s not witch hunting to disagree with him.
Exactly!
I agree. If everyone was protected equally under the law, it might be a different story.
However, as we all prepare for the holidays, there is someone out there who is trying to keep the true extent of their holiday plans secret from their employer, because their significant other is of the same sex and because in many states you can STILL legally be fired just for being gay.
While I am a straight citizen, I know that there are other women out there whose livelihood is far too dependent on the pronouns they use when describing their family life.
Phil isn’t being witch hunted, this article listing all of the Phil supporters and their comments is like a witch hunt. Grant it, they vocalised themselves and they aren’t victims. The world is changing and they are a dying breed. I give it another ten years before news like this isn’t even news any more. Hate will always exist and people with harmful viewpoints will always exist, but they no longer hold together the rungs of our society. Looking back on the year I have seen more examples of indignation against the segment of society that Phil was speaking from than I have examples of support. Way more. Countless more. Facebook lit up like a flipping Christmas tree with the marriage equality image becoming everyone’s profile photo. It was beautiful. I just don’t see it as a war, I see a bright future. In the face of all I’ve seen this year Phil’s face/comments are a little speck in a sea of empathy, progression and love. Perhaps civil rights are being challenged and there is a ways to go in that regard but I can say this is the first time in my life where I think the vast majority of people have “got it.”
Well, I do agree that lots of the younger generation is un-self consciously fine with racial, cultural and sexual diversity. And I agree, that’s very positive.
I think that list of Phil supporters are quite likely to be trying to get some attention from the bigot class themselves….
Your Facebook didn’t light up just because. It lit up because people have been fighting against the likes of Phil for decades now. They fight by standing up. They fight by pushing back. They fight by highlighting the problem of bigotry and its attached cruelty. And they fight by voting. Become silent and all progress made will disappear in an instant.
Phil’s statements weren’t some abstract concept. They were about real people. And the sentiments he expressed are regularly used an excuse to perpetrate hate crimes. And if dumbass Bristol Palin, the fornicating teen who got knocked up out of wedlock, wants to come out in support of hating others she deserves every bit of shame she gets.
I hate when Jesus is brought into the mix, bc Jesus was a MAN from another time and age, and he still managed to love and accept without spite and hate. The worst christianity has ever done, imo, is claiming Jesus is the *only* son of God; born to the virgin and all that other nonsense. Because putting Jesus on that kind of pedestal high above the rest of humanity, is the best excuse ever made for why we cannot or should not live a life in his image. My parents had sex to have me, so I may as well go out and sin, right?
I like how the Bible thumpers are very selective about what they decide to follow in the “good book:” Psalm 10:3 – For the wicked boasts of the desires of his soul, and the one greedy for gain curses and renounces the Lord.
I have never before seen a corporation apologize to people for having done the right thing (ie denounce bigotry), and renounce doing that right thing. Especially when that corporation has a well-known history of corporate racism and homophobia. It is mind-blowing to me and beyond shameful.
Cracker Barrel has indeed jumped the shark.
I’m calling them later today to see if they stock Confederate flags and KKK robes.
Let me know what they say!
LOL NOW Mike Huckabee wants to invoke Islam’s name and be in our side. Hahahahaha, laughable. NO ONE is persecuting Christians, least of all in America. Holy crap, Rosa Parks would go deaf hearing that comparison being made.
AGAIN, THE POINT ISN’T THAT PHIL HAD DIFFERENT BELIEFS. IT’S THAT HE MADE CRUEL AND OFFENSIVE STATEMENTS WITH THOSE BELIEFS BACKING THEM. HOW IS THAT SO HARD FOR PALIN, HUCKABEE, ET AL TO UNDERSTAND?!
Sorry for yelling guys. Pissed as all hell with people who twist and turn words to suit their agenda.
The suggestion that most people agree the the DDers is totally unsupported. It’s BS.
Their country bumpkin acts are totally fake. BS
If they would like to be the talentless circus act of the right, so be it. But unless A+E is planning to become their media hacks they’re making a big mistake if the keep this bigot on.
Cracker Barrel……pathetic.
The support for him honestly makes me nauseous to think about.
He’s a hateful bigot. Stop saying he is needed in politics. Or that freedom of speech/religion somehow makes this okay/good
Very happy that I moved to Canada. I’m shocked by the outpouring of support for him.
I’ve known people like Phil. I met them in divinity school. Fundamentalist Christians tend to be like Phil – they hold really tight to their own churches. In general, they don’t like to be confronted with alternative viewpoints. I remember one in class who got into an argument with our teacher about how we can be sure homosexuality is sinful. Our teacher was pointing out that much of the anti-gay stuff in the Bible is mistranslated and usually doesn’t mean what we think it does. The student got literally spitting mad and stormed out. He absolutely could not accept that there was evidence to support an alternative viewpoint. If Phil got back on the show, frankly, I’d make it contingent upon making him sit in a symposium full of Christians who are better educated in the Bible and don’t think like he does. He’d either come out of it a better Christian or totally devestated. Either way works for me.
good post.
I’ve noticed the further south you go, the more poorly educated people are, the more they blindly follow what they are told to follow and there are no other ways.
Not saying people in the south are stupid. Just saying the education is nothing like we yanks get.
Yankee girl with deep southern roots and family that are incapable of forming their own thoughts, here.
Very good idea!
I’m pretty sure Phil signed a boatload of contracts with clauses about conduct and ethics and corporate policies when he took A&Es money. I never understand why people get outraged when employers have consequences for actions that are against policy. He can say anything he wants, nobody is arrested him. People love a reason to get out their soap boxes. This thing has mutated.
I totally agree. And I think that A+E is just waiting and watching as DD boat takes on water as stuff continues to leak out and then….bubye.
I”m sure there are producers and more fake yokels lined up to take this show’s place.
It hink a & E orchastrated the interview with GQ because they realized what tools these people are and wanted out of their contract with them.
I’m wondering if the PR guy (who was at the interview but let Phil go off alone with the interviewer) still has a job…
Actually, Phil’s remarks come under the inciting to violence category. Both in this interview and elsewhere, he has repeatedly identified people in certain groups as evil and dangerous and disgusting. Sound familiar? That’s all that is needed to make others feel justified in attacking anyone suspected of being part of such a group. It makes the attackers feel they have community support for such actions. Phil can rant to his family and friends all he wants, but when he goes public with such rants – it becomes everybody’s business.
If nothing else, it may be cause for a suit by A&E employees, especially any who might work directly on the show, who feel that they have been harassed and/or made to work in a hostile environment.
I have mixed feelings about all of this nonsense. For everything stated in the Bible every person can interpret it differently. Two United Methodist preachers were on tv yesterday debating it. One preacher quoted the Bible where Jesus said people will begin to “see good as evil and evil as good”. People have gotten so far removed from his word. My point is though when you have preachers that are all divided about what the Bible means then how do you expect people to all believe the same. Whatever opinion most people have has been drilled into them for a very long time. I have no problem with homosexuality, however, with that said there are a whole lot of things going on that he did not intend. If we abide by his word nobody would live together without being married, and nobody would engage in sex before marriage. Each person has to live to the best of their ability and show love to all your neighbors regardless of sexual orientation or ethnicity. Phil is certainly not alone in his feelings especially when you get in the small mid-west towns. They all think like he does. Only God knows who is right and who is wrong.
Did you miss the large racist bit?
Bristol Palin is one of those folks who think slapping a pair of glasses on makes you smart.
This site contains some of the smartest comments on social issues. I really like that multiple people will calmly point out: No, that is actually not the definition of free speech. If even one person realizes they were wrong and backtracks, it’s a good day.
This isn’t good ole fashioned southern bible values, it’s ignorance. Part of the word ignorance is “ignore”. Ignoring what’s going on in the rest of the world as if it wasn’t happening; i.e., equality and respect. Shut up Phil, you do not speak for Christians. And Cracker Barrel’s main clientele is a bunch of Phils, which is why I have avoided it for decades.
Thanks for pointing that out, gg. Cracker Barrel has a long history of discriminating against black, female, and gay and lesbian employees and a more recent one of discriminating against black customers. I won’t eat there, and I suspect many others feel the same. Their vocal client base probably includes a large number of people who agree with Phil, not because all Southerners and Midwesterners who like country style food are bigots, but because the company has thoroughly alienated everyone else.
You know, I never thought their name ‘Cracker’ Barrel was a coincidence. It’s like the ‘Sambo’s’ chain; either Cracker Barrel changes it’s name and drops the DD merchandise for good, or risk continuing forever to be associated with a not so subtle code to it’s clientele.
I have never before seen a corporation apologize to people for having done the right thing (ie denounce bigotry), and renounce doing that right thing. Especially when that corporation has a well-known history of corporate racism and homophobia. It is mind-blowing to me and beyond shameful.
Cracker Barrel has indeed jumped the shark.
I really don’t get why it’s so hard to understand the difference between “not supporting” something and being openly offensive about it. No one is asking this tool to march in gay pride parades, but as a public figure he made the *choice* to say something wildly offensive in a magazine interview. Imagine if Brad Pitt – who I think we all suspect chooses not to watch Fox News – called out fans of Fox News in an interview as being the next worst thing to bestiality? I’m not fan of Fox News myself, but I would consider that offensive – and I would understand why that might result in a boycott of his films. (And, yes, I realize watching cable news is a choice and being gay isn’t, but I’m just making an analogy to point out the absurdity of a public figure pointlessly alienating an entire demographic that he could have just said nothing about if he doesn’t like them).
I don’t like that he’s getting all the blame for this, A&E’s hands are not clean. That said, he has one job….to ACT. That’s all he needed to do. ACT. He has the right to feel and think how he pleases, I don’t personally agree with him, but he has his own opinions. We have the right to react how we please, as well. He has offended 3/4 of his paycheck, we have the right to not pay him anymore. Religion and politics are 2 things that can get you into some nasty trouble at work. There is a time and a place for preaching, and at work in a very public spotlight is not the time for it. All he had to do was keep his mouth shut, like most red-blooded americans know they need to do at work. This show is not his RIGHT. It’s his PRIVILEGE.
So he failed at being a fraud and that’s the most important thing? Wow.
Well no. But, use this for example. I work with a large amount of spanish/african/gay people. If I walked into work and went on a white power/anti gay rant, I would be fired on the spot without question. Sure, I have the RIGHT to feel that way (I don’t, it’s just an example), but it has no business in the work place. I wouldn’t have a million people standing up for me, it would be a well that’s not acceptable in the workplace attitude. The fact that he’s a public figure in a very bright spotlight shouldn’t make it more acceptable.
This has provoked an excellent dialogue regarding 1st amendment issues. Most people have no clue, and in this era of dwindling hate speech, the most negative rants can happen while the most intelligent constitution based logic can squelch it.
BTW, Bristol’s chin is sofa king odd; couch implant perhaps?
@ homegrrrl
Yes, Bristol had a chin implant. – http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/bristol-palins-face-product-lot-procedures-pain/story?id=13582207
Phil Robertson does have a to his opinion but when is hate speech ever right? People are misguided when they use the term “free speech” as you can’t yell fire in a crowded movie or bomb. It seems like the fall back position for right-wingers is to invoke Bible verses to make their point, but I believe that there is a great deal of verse about rich people not getting into the kingdom of heaven. I do believe they are very wealthy, just sayin’.
College degree or no college degree the guy is an effin idiot. He made that clear thoughout the entirety of his interview. He’s some random dude from a show I don’t watch, in a magazine I don’t read, who truly made an ass out of himself to the entire world in the biggest way. Like, a ginormous, hairy ass filled with a cornucopia of factual inaccuracies (how is that for imagery?). I’m not really interested in him or his opinions and I really don’t get the absolute, all out rage & personal attacks against other posters surrounding this. He’s a blithering idiot. Seriously – an idiot who can’t get simple, commonly known facts straight. Why is anyone taking him seriously? Why is anyone giving him more of a platform to speak by humoring this? The more you fight, the more his platform grows. Further, fighting with people you dont know on the internet isn’t going to change their minds or help your (our, because I agree he’s an ass) stance. They aren’t going to say “Oh, you know! You’re right! I’m an ass!” It’s going to push them away. It’s going to push people on the fence to the other side. In Gossip speak, think of what the Twi Stans (stans, not fans) did to the reputations & likeability of Kristen Stewart & Robert Pattinson. Obviously a different issue – but the effect is still the same.
The country & city I’m currently in is fraught with regional tension and was threatened again just a few days ago by an unstable rival nation with war. Whole lot of instability over here right now. Everytime I hear a loud pop or bang outside, I worry one of these countries has all out lost it and started WWIII. In the short time I’ve been here, we’ve already had loudspeakers warning us to shelter in place due to a threat. Last week, there were riots over worker issues. I love you my fellow Americans, but you really need to chill the fuck out sometimes and stop worrying about this petty he said/she said bullshit. The guy is an idiot. Stop listening to him. There are REAL injustices out there that need to be fought for, real actual injustices against Muslims, African Americans, LBGT Community, the poor and so, sooooo much more. Ripping each other apart over a guy who doesn’t know the difference between Massachusetts and Utah is not one of them. JFC, the guy is an idiot for COL! Stop making him a martyr! And stop feeding into the hate machine! Hate never wins!
You are right. We collectively lost our minds. Please stay safe. I wish you (and everyone) peace on Earth.
“There are REAL injustices out there that need to be fought for, real actual injustices against Muslims, African Americans, LBGT Community, the poor and so, sooooo much more. Ripping each other apart over a guy who doesn’t know the difference between Massachusetts and Utah is not one of them.” – Just Me
DD’s hate speech matters because in a LOT of theocratic dictatorships the religious leaders whipped their least educated into a frenzy and sailed into power born on the wings of moralistic legislation. First is the ‘harmless nutters’ nattering on, then comes the ‘grassroots’ rallying behind a ‘return to Godliness’, and it ends in oppression and terror .
Sadly, we ARE in a cultural religious war with the AmeritTaliban leading the charge. I can’t in good conscious not speak up to friends, family, neighbors, or even, God help me, the internet when I hear this festering drivel. What you are experiencing in your host country can happen to us. Civil wars fought on behalf of ancient strife and historic rivalries are all too common.
Thanks, Kiddo. I hope you have a Merry Christmas (or Happy Holidays, whichever you prefer!)!
Sloane, There is a difference in speaking up for what is right and ripping people apart in the name of a cause. One is truly fighting for justice – for change – for the betterment of society. Rosa Parks, MLK (my personal hero, btw) – they fought the good fight. They did it the right way. THEY are American heroes. They set the bar and they set the example. Ripping people to shreds and fighting with viciousness in the name of a cause??? If words truly matter, if words really do hurt – if this is our battle cry – then so, then, do the words we hurl in defense. Further, If this is not an issue of freedom of Speech, then what, then, do we hope to accomplish by tearing those we disagree with apart, if not but to silence them? It certainly isn’t a plea for tolerance. It certainly isn’t a plea for understanding. What it is is intolerance to the other extreme and it brings NOTHING to the table. One is just as wrong as the other.
You’re absolutely right. What’s happening here and in other parts of the world CAN happen in the U.S. Why? For the reasons I just stated. People are too pigheaded to tolerate or try to understand any way but their own. That isn’t single sided. It takes 2 to go to war and BOTH are wrong. Lives are senselessly lost every single day, all over the world for this very reason. Wars continue to wage to this day over stupid misunderstandings that no one really understands anymore. I think you kind of missed my point. Or maybe in my exhaustion I just didn’t make it well. Maybe I’m still not making it – but you CANNOT fight extremism with extremism. You cannot, will not, win. It causes war – and you know what happens in war? NO ONE wins. It is a naive fool who would think war is the answer over peaceful dialogue, tolerance and understanding.
I really hope that I misunderstood with you the “AmeriTaliban” thing b/c that is truly one of the most ignorant, irresponsible, insulting and extremist things I’ve heard this week. I think you are an incredibly intelligent person with whom I typically agree, so I’m really hoping I misunderstood. Those are not the words of an open minded, tolerant person who truly hopes to bring about change, justice and the betterment of society. Those are words meant to inflame and incite war; and I’m sorry, I just can’t get on board with that.
This right here? This is how progress is made. This is how real change is brought about. THIS? My God, THIS is bravery:
http://hiphopwired.com/2013/11/25/black-musician-kkk-members-collects-hoods/
“I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality… I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word.” –Martin Luther King, Jr.
By the way, I still think a lot of this would be solved if people would STOP giving the guy a platform. He’s not going to change his opinion and he has the right not to. It’s said. It’s done. Fighting with random strangers on the internet isn’t going to change anything. All it’s going to do is breed more hate and intolerance.
JFC, How did that become a book?
There is a comment awaiting approval. This is why that doesn’t make sense.
“If words truly matter, if words really do hurt – if this is our battle cry – then so, then, do the words we hurl in defense.” – . ITA, Just Me.
Merry Christmas and a Joyous Season to all!
@Just Me, I do sometimes ‘rip apart’ in the name of a good cause, and I’m working on not doing that anymore. I hope lately I’ve tempered my remarks to confining myself to dismantling arguments supporting hate speech and ideas whilst still avoiding personal attacks. I think cooler heads do prevail, or at least have a better chance to affect change.
The term AmeriTaliban was not directed at any poster anywhere, but it was aimed toward the bombers of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building and health clinics all across our country in the name of God. This is a term that I do not use lightly; but what else do you call religious thugs, modern day George Wallaces, civil rights oppressors, hatred inciters, and fanatical murderers here on our soil? I don’t think we can afford to stay quiet in the face of insidious creep.
“what, then, do we hope to accomplish by tearing those we disagree with apart, if not but to silence them?” If I can keep my words concise enough and avoid personal attacks, I hope to change minds and hearts, just a little bit, and have my own changed and softened as well in the process of give and take. Yep, even then we can be misconstrued, but it’s worth it to try even if you get it wrong. The alternative IS staying silent, and hope for the best.
“I think you kind of missed my point.” I think I did too, but it might it might be a tad mutual. Again, agreed that extremism is to be avoided at all costs because it furthers hate and shuts down dialog. I’m nothing if not open for continuing the conversation on racism. – Continuing the Conversation: The Changing Nature of Racism in the Internet Age https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIfruywcbNU
You aren’t the only one guilty of tearing into people on this site. I certainly have a history of tearing into some of the more extreme Twihards. Celebrity gossip is my escape from a reality that is, and has for a long time, been filled with war, the consequences of war, and the politics behind. I used to really dislike when some would attack totally innocent posters for no real reason at all. I think it’s because of this that my comments always go into moderation even if they’re completely benign.
That said, am very, very tired this morning so I don’t want to go into this very much. In a total brain fog and am struggling to find my words and thoughts. I think you & I are pretty much on the same page, and probably talking in circles because we’re saying the same thing, just coming from different angles. One thought I want to leave you with is that silence doesn’t always equal apathy. There are a hundred ways to successfully fight a would be oppressor that don’t involve speaking a single word at all.
Also, please do be careful with the American Taliban comment. I get what you’re saying now, but that is a very, very, very small sect of our society and that term is dangerous. It should not be thrown around loosely or used to describe people who adhere stringently to their Christian religion. There’s a difference in believing something and believing something so much that you hurt others. I think as people who consider ourselves open minded and tolerant it is our responsibility to not stoop to the level of others. It only makes things worse.
Merry Christmas, Sloane. I hope it was lovely. Here, we are already in the day after.
You’ve convinced me, Just Me. I’ll drop ‘AmeriTaliban’ because it’s too like using the “You’re Hitler” to shut down a conversation, and I don’t wanna do that.
It sure sounds like you’re in a pressure cooker. Please be safe, be well, and give those unsuspecting Twihards heck! 🙂
@Just Me says:
I do not understand you.
You write about real injustices and who does mobilize war and injustice? Who does mobilize the masses and why? Profit? Who ever did mobilze the crowds and why?
Yeah. You’re right. You don’t understand. And that’s just going to have to be ok because I’m too tired to get into this again today. Nor do I have the time.
Merry, Merry.
I hope you have a good night and a good tomorrow as well, Just Me!
The joke is on us. “Duck Dynasty” is an invented construct: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/20/1264354/-Duck-Dynasty-is-a-Fake-Yuppies-in-Red-Neck-Drag-Con-Job
Of course it is. All the reality shows are. But it’s nice to see it in writing.
BTW, in that whole Chic Fil A Brouhaha, I didn’t say one word. Not one. I kept my mouth shut and I didn’t jump into the hate fueled fights on message boards or Facebook. People I know already knew my stance. What good would fighting do? Especially with complete strangers. Dan Cathy had a right to his opinion. And I had a right to mine. So you know how I exercised that? I made a personal decision to never go to Chic Fil A again – and I haven’t. Even though I used to frequently give them my business. And I explained quietly and privately to my children why we could not go there anymore – even though there were school sponsored fund raisers through Chic Fil A. You tell me – which method is more effective?
Let’s do both! Take our business elsewhere AND be vocal. If taken too far, hot headed righteous indignation responses to racist provocation is self defeating, but there is a nuanced middle way.
Eh. I don’t like the show. I support gay marriage. I also think everyone has the right to express their opinions fully and openly no matter what those opinions may be. If that’s really how he feels then so be it. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs even if I don’t agree with it. He just has to realize that with that kind of thinking there will be a backlash. Don’t say it if you can’t handle it.