There was a time in Prince William’s life when all the ladies wanted to see him in a wetsuit (even Speedos). That time was when he was about 18 years old. Nowadays, William in a wetsuit looks sort of like a drowned rat. Maybe it’s the (lack of) hair? Anyway, William was in a pool with some scuba gear a few days ago because he’s just been made the new president of BSAC, Britain’s “governing body for scuba diving.” Power. Broker. While at this event, William interacted with children, talked about Prince George a little bit, had to explain to his father what “buff” meant and tried to explain how he’s been scuba diving all around the world without sounding like he takes 10 vacations a year.
Bath time can be a chaotic experience for any new parent – and Prince William says he is no exception.
“At the moment bath time is quite painful, but hopefully donning a snorkel and mask might calm him down,” the Duke of Cambridge joked of the waterlogged chaos that surrounds bathing his son Prince George, who turns 1 later this month, and also tests his parenting skills and patience.
William, 32, made the remarks, appropriately enough, while taking over the presidency of the British Sub-Aqua Club (BSAC) from his father Prince Charles, 65, where he told guests he hopes George will follow in the two generations’ footsteps and immerse himself in the joy and support of snorkeling, scuba diving and water sports.
William, who likes surfing and body boarding when vacationing in Cornwall and his been diving around the world, had the chance to don a wetsuit again and go underwater – this time in a London pool. The prince also enjoyed a laugh at his dad’s expense, when Chairman of the British Sub-Aqua Society (BSAS) Eugene Farrell shared a blast-from-the-past picture of Charles in the surf and described him to guests as “quite buff.” When Charles looked perplexed, William explained the term and added with a laugh, “Pa, you should be pleased!”
William then tried some snorkeling with a group of 8-year-olds to highlight the work being done by the BSAC to encourage diving among young people.
“I’ve been a fair weather diver up to this point,” said William, whose wife Kate is also a member of the BSAS and did some diving in north Wales where the couple lived until last fall. Concluded Williams to guests: “I’d like to get back into British waters.”
Prince George is such a delicious holy terror. I hope he keeps his parents on their toes for years to come. George does not like baths – maybe they need to bring in some rubber duckies or rubber bilbies? George needs something to squeeze/kill during bath time.
William also did an event with Harry for the launch of the Queen’s Young Leaders Programme. It involved a Google Chat, selfies, etc. Some of the stuff is kind of boring, but this caught my eye:
The Duke of Cambridge has described having his own family as the “silver lining” in his life following the tragedy of his mother’s death. The Duke, who was 15 when Diana, Princess of Wales died in 1997, said people who lose parents at a young age have to simply “dust yourself off and carry on”.
He made the comments to two brothers who lost their parents in the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami, during a reception to launch an award for young leaders. Rob and Paul Forkan were invited to the event at Buckingham Palace because their parents’ deaths inspired them to build orphanages in developing countries funded by their Gandy’s flip-flop manufacturing company. The brothers, who were 17 and 15 respectively when their parents Kevin and Sandra were swept to their deaths in Sri Lanka, survived by clinging onto the roof of a building. They and their younger brother and sister had to hitch-hike across Sri Lanka to reach a safe passage home.
Rob Forkan, 26, told the Duke that his parents had given up jobs in the fashion industry to volunteer for humanitarian projects, which inspired him and his brother to set up Gandy’s specifically to fund orphanages. Mr Forkan said: “He said he lost his mum at 15 but there was always a silver lining and you should dust yourself off and carry on. He applauded what we had done and said keep up the good work. He’s got his own family now – that was his silver lining.”
It’s very English, right? Very “stiff upper lip.” Show no emotions. Don’t talk about your feelings. Your mum died? Stop crying and move on. Now, I’m not saying that wallowing in grief is preferable or even healthy, but surely there’s a balance between taking some time to grieve and “carrying on.” I realize that’s nitpicky, but it just reminded me so much of how Diana was against the unemotional, the lack of feeling that she often saw in the royal family. She would have wanted her sons to carry on with life, of course, but she also wanted them to show compassion and genuine emotion.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
First thought: “Harry never would have said that.”
+1
Mine too. Precisely that.
Mine was along similar lines. I thought, “Wow, just a week or so ago, Harry got tears in his eyes as he spoke to an orphan and now this. Why am I not surprised?”
Harry makes his dumb mistakes but I think that he is a much nicer, more genuine person than is his brother.
I think his brother is genuinely the type of person to make those kinds of remarks. No, seriously.
Me too. Gah, can this thoughtless guy just go drive around the country in a Jag and leave the appearances and title to Harry.
Agreed- Harry never would have said that, however I respect the duke’s comment. I lost my dad at 6 and mother at 15 (leading to all sorts of messes from adolescence into adulthood). Indeed, at 34 my husband and two children are my silver lining. Time doesn’t ‘heal’ but you do get stronger. Whether it’s being an orphan or other struggles, at some point we all need to dust ourselves off and continue to contribute to society.
Nicely worded, Ali.
Sorry to hear that Ali, your comment was nicely put indeed.
I also bow to you because God knows where I would be now without my mother.
Big hugs.
My husband died when my daughter was 4. I firmly believe that if you let someone sink into depression when they lose someone they love you are doing them no favor. I believe Wiliam had no choice but to pull himself up by his bootstraps and go on. I saw my child thru it and gave her time to mourn our loss but I had seen a few other kids use the death of their parents as an excuse for everything thye ever did wrong in their lives and I was not going to have that happen to mine, when she became an adult she thanked me for being strong and making her strong too. He didnt mean it as a slam . He wasnt being flip about it. I saw this I saw his tears and the pain in his face when he mother died. He was NOT allowed to wallow in his grief. He had to grow up and face reality, William had lots to deal with too, Newspapers, reporters , lies ,pictures of his mother lying in a car dying, He did pull himself up even with all the bullshit that he had to deal with. Harry is the baby of the family. william had no choice but to mourn for a while and then be quiet about his pain. Harry expresses himself where William I am sure was told to buck up and be a man, I am sure when alone William sheds a few tears for his Mom he is human like the rest of us he just is a realist.
Well said judykAY. My condolences to you and your daughter.
I get what he’s saying though. I lost both parents when I was still in college and yeah my family was the same way. We cried but had to keep moving. Of course moving on for me meant I didn’t mourn and then slid right into clinical depression. There’s a happy medium there. Move on but mourn properly and have some close friends or family you can talk to. My grand mom was hardcore after my mom passed. She got sick of my aunt going on about it and was like how are you not over this yet. She didn’t mean it meanly but the older Depression era people in the US I found to be pragmatic about things and that’s how she acted with all of us grand kids.
We had a simillar, though maybe a little more balanced trend in our family. When our great aunt died, her grandchildren were just SOBBING during the funeral. Full on sobbing, red faces and all that. When my grandfather passed, my cousins and I pretended we weren’t actually at a funeral the whole time. Cried a little bit silently. Cried more when I got home, alone in my room. Grampy, while a giant softy when it came to animals and his grandkids, had a long military and social services career (and a rough life as a child in the 20s/30s) and had conditioned himself, as well as us not to display emotions too much.
Yeah depending on how your family is raised some people just don’t express emotion in the same way that others do. I thought my world ended when my dad passed away. I cried so hard in my room that my eyelids were swollen shut. When my mom passed I remember crying but just thinking to myself that I had to just keep getting through the days since there was no one but my brothers and I to set up the funeral, do the obit, get flowers, arrange with the church.
@starry-we must be related. Also agree that it’s how the family dynamic is structured. I have been to funerals where people threw themselves on the deceased, crying and holding them. I was..astonished. We were taught to not display emotions in public that way. When my father passed away a few months ago, I got the call, went to the house, cleaned up the kitchen floor where he died, and began the arrangements. I never once cried. I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. I have it imprinted in me to do what has to be done, and go about my business.
I agree. He could have said it more artfully, but at the end of the day, whenever tragedy strikes or life is difficult, the only way to overcome it is to eventually pick yourself up and carry on. I don’t think he was suggesting it was something people needed to do immediately after tragedy, with no room for mourning, but rather a big-picture comment. People take different routes and use different timeframes to get to that “pick yourself up” moment, but most of us eventually get there–that’s life.
After losing my mother and sister at a young age, I watched an interview with Cher who said something very similar (“you pick yourself up and you move on”, is what I believe she said). This statement stuck with me for YEARS, and got me through alot. Really.
I agree that we’ve got to hear the whole private conversation in order to criticize. Wouldn’t we all want the same fair process? He has experienced similar loss with the tragic loss of his mother, so I really can’t see him being smug here. Furthermore, at a time of torturous loss, “dusting yourself off and moving on” is really the only thing you can do to avoid mass destruction in your life. It’s the first step to many in keeping yourself emotionally safe.
It doesn’t matter how he ment it – he came across as insensitive and rude.
Can you imagine any politician / psychologist / teacher / … to say that?
It is plain rude to simply ride over people’s emotions like that.
Quite frankly Prince William’s public statements don’t provide a positive outlook for his tenure as Crown Prince and later as King. The guy is over 30 and quite frankly he should get a grip.
+1000 Chameleon
Only a full contextual excerpt would justify this criticism and that would be impossible because it was a private conversation between adults who have lost parents.
Criticism (and voicing one’s opinion) of a publicly-funded individual is always justified. He should know by now that he has to be aware of the dreaded soundbite.
Eh. It’s hard to hate on William when he talks about losing his mother. I myself have found that using the stiff upper lip was more helpful as a grief coping mechanism, so I can’t criticize him for that. I will say that when he says stuff like that to kids, I hope he realizes that, at least financially and probably in other ways as well, he had far more resources available to cope with a loss. For these kids, losing a parent can mean emotional AND financial devastation.
I think that’s why it’s good that they have Harry talk to kids about it. Harry was younger when he lost his mom, so he understands that side of it a bit better, and he’s also just a more open and emotional person. William is stoic and her so scarred by her death that it’s hard for him to access that side of himself publicly. These comments would be inappropriate to children who lost their mom last year, but in this context it’s perfectly appropriate, though reserved. The Gandys are adults who lost their parent(s) as teens, and all of them HAVE moved on.
Good point. Harry was very good with the children in Brazil who had lost their parents.
Will lost his mom at 15. Read any bios and you’ll see that there were anguished tears and copious grieving. Plenty. Not really fair to judge him 16 years later, imo.
I agree. From the headline, I thought he had addressed a group of orphans and said this. These were comments that he made to other people who lost their parents at the same age (10 years ago) and made something beautiful come out of it.
I don’t really see it as a “stiff upper lip” thing, as he did show emotion when his mom died. I lost my mom in December. Even though I’m 35, if I didn’t realize that I had to pick myself up and carry on, I would not get up off of the couch for the grief. There are people I show my emotions to, and others I do not.
@Dame Snarkweek: Yes, I agree. Will he was deeply hurt by his mother’s death, especially as they were so close I am very sympathetic to Will about such a huge loss at such a young age in such a public way. I am not judging Will at all, just saying that 16 years later, he is stoic and reserved, which is perfectly appropriate.
+1 Exactly. Will is a stoic and reserved person(at least in public) and there is nothing wrong with that. Constant comparisons between Harry and Will are baseless in this situation. Will lost his mother in a different stage of his life and treated differently than Harry afterwards (because he is the heir). Outside of this, they seem to have entirely different personalities anyway.
My family is that way as well. Stiff upper lip and all that.
I can’t fault William at all. Remember, a week after his mother died, he and Harry walked behind her coffin in front of millions of people? *I* cried buckets watching (and am even getting a bit misty typing it!), but those two just did it. Even Harry who looked so much younger than 13 that day. They have to deal with things that none of us do.
Yes, I was thinking about that too. Even protected by palace walls, they still had to grieve in public.
well, okay…… I grew up in a “carry on, tally ho” family too, but bluhare, may I suggest this…..I think one has to remember that everyone is different and losses are different and the resulting trauma levels and impact are different.
These two young men at the event lost their parents in a tsunami before their eye as they fought to save their own lives by hanging onto a roof. That is traumatic in several ways, I would think — factors of shock, terror, survivor’s guilt. Good for them for carrying on and doing well. I am not at all saying their loss is greater than what William (and Harry) went through, but William and Harry were cocooned in a royal court and loved by a nation outpouring grief with them. There are surviving-loss differences and I would think a search and rescue worker like William might be a bit more trained in this than the average person. That said, he didn’t make light of their loss and was speaking man-to-man with them, so I will step back and assume he applied his comment to them and the general idea of carrying on versus potentially harmful collapsing into depression.
Blu,
Looking back, I can’t imagine how they managed to walk in the funeral procession. But I hope that they are glad today that they did it, because it really was a remarkable tribute to their mother.
I wasn’t saying he was right, Liberty. I said I can’t fault him. Two different things.
And of course his situation is different. A lot different. Which is what I was trying to point out, not saying it was worse and not saying it was better. Just different.
got it, bluhare, just reread. I see your point.
AM
At the last minute William and Harry decided they were incapable of the planned walk behind their mother’s catafaulk. Prince Phillip took them aside and told them that he and everyone else would understand and support their decision but it would help their countrymen immensely and their mother would be really proud of them for being brave. They consented. As they walked Phillip pointed out architectural and historical buildings along the route and whispered encouraging things to them to distract them. The thought of this always brings tears to my eyes. And in the immediate days following Diana’s death William would disappear for hours on end climbing hills and trekking alongside pastures/streams, grieving. Prince Phillip was the omly one capable of persuading him to return for dinner.
I lost my mom in a car accident a couple of years ago, and my sister and I put together the funeral and both held it together throughout the day while everyone else was weeping. Privately, I cried so much I didn’t know how there was any water left in my body. For a couple months, any time I was home, I was pretty much curled up on the floor sobbing. But publicly, I held it together. People grieve differently in public and private.
Bucky
God bless you.
Liberty- they may have been “cocooned in a royal court” but they had to deal with things that most people don’t. Like a media storm and endless conspiracies about her death that still persist to this day. I really don’t believe they were immune to all the scrutiny.
I don’t think his comments were off at all. I think that at some point, everyone gets to a point where they have to dust themselves off and carry on. It just comes at a different point for every person.
Sighs, yes, I reread the comment and thought about it and other comments here, and I am changing my mind and have to agree with you and bluhare and others.
Dame, I love that story about Philip and the boys. Thank you for sharing.
Dame Snarkweek, I also recall that Philip told William if he would walk behind the casket, he would too. And that initially there was no plan for Philip to walk.
I’ve always thought of Phillip as a bit of an ass, but I like him a little more knowing he was there for those boys when they were suffering the most. That’s what good granpas do.
Dame: where on earth did you hear all that regarding the funeral because I know people who worked on that funeral and i’ve never heard this.
Secondly, I was in London during the funeral. We joined the route on the street whilst some friends watched it on screens in Hyde park. Unless Philip was able to talk out of the side of his mouth, I don’t remember that they talked at all enroute. The funeral procession was eerily silent and quiet, the only thing you heard was the horses and the soldiers’ shuffling feet. It was so freaky how silent it was, except for the occasional random lone voice in the crowd. IF Philip had spoken enroute, it would have been picked up either by lip readers or the crowds. The only time I remember anyone speaking was when the procession stopped at horseguards arch where Harry lost some control and had to be comforted by Charles.
Liberty et al
It makes me suspend a lot of my Phillip side eye when I read about things like this.
LAK
I read this in a rf bio. It was either by Kelly, Brown or Nicholl. I am on my iPad at a resort so you will have to forgive my inability to be more specific. I remembrr being very impressed with Phillip, afterwards.
That funeral was one of the most beautiful ceremonial rites I’ve ever seen. Britain did Diana proud that day, and even the weather cooperated.
I’ve read that William and Harry had to be talked into it at the last minute, and I bet they’re glad they did now. I didn’t know Philip talked to them; all I remember was the downcast eyes and somberness. Perhaps Philip said a word or two but it would have been really difficult to keep up a commentary given how quiet it was. All you could hear were the horses.
This man complains about his son at every chance he can get. A newborn not sleeping through the night and crying is in fact ‘just like us’ and not surprising as it’s all babies. Maybe he expected the nanny to keep him more quiet… at night time, bath time and for all time?
I really don’t see it as him complaining but joking.
I think this is his and Kate’s way of trying to show they’re “one of the people.” It’s cute in small doses, but since everyone knows they have a nanny and don’t have to deal with any other competing household duties, it gets old after a while. Part of his (IMO) tone-deafness.
I am not a starry-eyed W&K fan, but I do think they are just sharing funny amusing tales about Gorgeous George that they would share w friends.
Many of my friends & coworkers adore their kids but love to share the extreme stories about their kids, not in a “god, WTH” way but in a laughing amused way that shows a little funny pride in having such crazy strong pushy personable baby!
Friends from France had a Baby Churchill too, their firstborn, and walked around in amusement and sort of awed puzzlement and would talk about him in whispers “can you come over and watch how he eats, is this the normal thing?” I would go over and Baby Churchill would be sitting in his high chair utterly upright. frowning and banging two large spoons (no baby spoons for him, he’d hurl them in disgust) for food! now! Hand on my heart he looked like a powerful and furious Henry VIII. Food would be placed before him, he would cock an eyebrow, glance up scathingly at mum and dad, and frowning, take a taste, and stare coldly at them while tasting. If okay, gorging began. If not okay, he’d sit back in the highchair and cross his arms still holding the spoons and stare at them in fury, not a peep. The doctor checked him 20 times; normal healthy, this is just how your kid is! A despot. At like five months or whatever.
So they were two naturally funny sweet laid-back people and just told these tales in a sort of state of dazed awe all the time. The child was IN LOVE with their dog and tender with the dog and would even furiously flip the dog’s food dish over — NOT THIS!!!! SOMETHING BETTER FOR MY HENCHMAN HERE!! I saw it. I still remember. Bathtime….imagine bathing Henry the ViII sitting pompously and impassively and wanting a large spoon in the bath as a bath toy, not the many bright bath toys he had – NO!! His large silver spoon, held like a scepter as they bathed him like servants. Unreal. I watched it. I couldn’t blame them at all for the jokes — they were proud but needed some comic relief. Postscript: the boy is growing up super smart and healthy and sweet but very judge of people he deems as being mean to others, to other kids or animals — he tolerates no meanies or bullies.
Wonderful story!
You paint a great picture, Liberty. I can see that little guy in his highchair!
That story is hilarious, thank you liberty
He’ll probably grow up to reinstate the French monarchy, sounds like he’d be a pretty cool king too 😛
Liberty, this is a late comment but I wanted to say what a talented writer you are. You have such a natural feel for words and storytelling. Thanks for sharing it here. Please keep it coming!
Yea, it’s not complaining. Not at all. It’s something short to say instead of carrying on and on about your child.
We know William was barely around George for a chunk of his life so far (by Kate’s own admission) so he sticks with crying.
Personally, I would have prefered he say he’s a curious baby or a big giggler/smiler, but it is what it is and i’m being nit-picky.
I’m sure the nannies see less crying just by percentage that they spend with him is likely greater.
Yeah I’m not gonna give him any slack in this either. I mean I feel like Alison Lohman’s character in the movie version of “White Oleander” where she listens to her mother explain why she abandoned her and it was basically because she was a fussy baby. Crying and being fussy is what babies do William!
And I think it’s hypocritical to say to people that they should find a way to carry on when dealing with grief when he has no problems exploiting his dead mother’s name for his own benefit, ie. giving Kate that engagement ring and not buying one that had zero connection to Diana.
Will & Kate are just joking. People are always asking about George so what else are they supposed to say? Babies don’t do very much.
He’s not saying he didn’t take time to grieve at all. He’s just expressing platitudes about living with grief to someone he doesn’t really know. It’s a very personal topic for him I am sure. After a big huge loss there is not one way to grieve, and at some point you do have to move on. He has not really flourished in his adult life as a royal and deserves all the side-eyes for his and his wife’s sketchy work ethics. But his mother’s death was by all accounts devastating for him and I have a lot of sympathy for him on that subject, especially since people are remarkably cruel about it.
But what a cold remark to make to someone who lost both their parents. Yes, there are different ways to grieve, but you don’t just dust yourself off like you fell off a bicycle. I have a great deal of sympathy for him on the topic, too, especially since my husband lost his mother at 14. I’ve heard him talk to others about it, and he says very little, but he at least acknowledges that “that’s really tough, but I promise it get better.” You don’t have to throw yourself on someone’s neck and sob, but I think you can do better than refusing to acknowledge the depth of devastation following the event.
He didn’t refuse to acknowledge anything. He certainly didn’t compare it to a bicycle. He used a common phrase to describe dealing with a difficult event. He was applauding the brothers for their effort and trying to be positive at an event that was about their accomplishments after their parents’ death ten years ago. The loss of their parent(s) is not recent for William or the brothers. Neither of them need to go in depth about the grief process, as it is very personal.
And Harry was at the event and didn’t say a single word about his mother’s death. Does that make him cold too?
But he wasn’t talking to a kid who just lost his mother a few months ago. They’re grown men who lost their parents/mother a decade or more ago. I really don’t think he was saying to not grieve, he certainly didn’t say “Well, it’s done. Keep your chin up and move on.” I’m not even sure he said it directly to the brothers or meant to give advice. To me it sounded a little resigned to be honest. Along the lines of “It really sucks but at some point, you have to move forward.”
I’m just saying it’s hard to know how he meant it exactly from just reading this quote. And it’s not a cold remark coming from someone who knows what it’s like to lose a parent. If the people at the event weren’t offended, I don’t think it was said in a cruel way whatsoever.
@littlemissnaughty
You make a good point. Thank you for making it politely. I see what you mean, it is hard to know what he meant simply from reading one line, and I should have taken that into consideration.
I agree with you. Losing an immediate family member at a young age is an isolating thing. Even though grief is highly individualized, There is a kind of commonality among anyone who endures it. And it is absolutely true that you have to carry on, by which I mean your life can”t stop forever or become about death. You have tobe allowed to laugh and cry and continue living . He was talking about the grieving experience with boys who last their parents ten years ago, not trying to tell kids to buck up because their parents died last week.
Much ado about nothing.
msw
There are a dozen different ways (off the top of my head) he could have phrased it differently. The message would remain, but the words wouldn’t be so disconnected and cold.
When I lost a parent at 11 someone said almost that exact phrase to me. It came off cold. Yes, there’s a common link, but the wording was heartless.
This fits though, because William has never come off as the empathetic, warm-hearted windsor.
@ Florc First of all I am sorry for your lost. But somebody saying that to a child who just lost his/her mother is much more different than saying it to an adult who lost his/her mother more than a decade ago. Especially considering Will went through the same thing as well. I lost my mother when I was 16 and people said things like “It’s going to get better” and “you have to move on”. It was obviouly frustrating then but now, 6 years later, when somebody says those things, it doesn’t sting.
I’m sorry for your loss. I also lost a family member at 11 and it would have been a horribly insensitive comment to say when a death just happened. It just seems like this particular situation wasn’t like that. It was a remark taken out of context. He wasn’t advising thm to suck it up. He was relating to their feeling of having to get on with life and just keep going, a feeling all those boys dealt with years ago. that makes all the difference in the world.
My niece’s father died when she was 4. Her mother, my sister, died when my niece was 12. My niece is an only child. Ever since my sister died, my niece has been an in-house orphan (living with family). She is now 24.
I think there is a universal truth that if one is to live beyond those who have died that we must eventually pick ourselves up and move on—in one guise or another. However, I think when sharing grief and/or giving advice to the survivors it depends on the circumstances, the context, and the mental/emotional condition of the person to whom we are speaking AND the level / amount of empathy being conveyed by the speaker. It’s a nuanced thing for both the speaker and the listener.
************************
On a more superficial note, is that a hernia poking through the left side of William’s wet suit?
Thanks for the condolences. Experiencing that loss is likely why i’m far from forgiving for Will’s actions regarding th loss of his mother. Be it a remark in conversation or how he only seems to bring up his mother as protection my claws admittedly come out.
Maybeiamcrazy and msw
I can better understand after reading your comments it was a conversation between 2 people that both suffered no recent loss. There was likely a different message. That they both were able to come out of their grief.
With that said… I do not disagree with the message. I just don’t like the wording at all. And maybe that’s a cultural difference. Like others said a stiff upper lip and all.
But as an adult I wouldn’t choose those words to say to another adult that felt that loss.
It just feels cold and dismissive of such a hugely complex moment in a persons life.
We all lose parents and it’s always imo a hard time, but no 2 people have the same hard time or the same easy time.
And what Dena said regarding circumstances.
dena
Wow. Your post said what my 2nd half of my post above did so much better.
Circumstances, empathy, and the overall message count for so much. Not from a public persective, but person to person.
After my loss I remember being so frustrated with everyone acting like because they lost a parent we were in some kind of club. That they knew what I was going through. We weren’t and they didn’t. Some of them spoke like they tried to make it about them.
So I took that and only say what I think will help that person.
Sometimes that’s saying nothing at all, but making sure they’re ok.
@florc I’m glad for your insights and happy to engage in a thoughtful and respectful dialogue. That’s why I like this site:)
I just read the actual quote from the adult brothers and they said they were grateful for what he said and they said it was his way of showing compassion. I think it was his British way of “coping” in public and there is nothing wrong with that. Who knows how many tears he cried in private, but that is his business. Agree with what you are saying.
I agree with you.
For some reason I can’t know, I watched the Martin Bashir interview with Diana last night. It was riveting and while I’d remembered the headlines (3 of us in the marriage, etc.) I’d quite forgotten the bulk. I was struck by how she talked about loving her duties. They were exhausting physically, emotionally & mentally, but that to be able to give comfort to people was a gift.
And then I thought of Will & Kate. And I don’t really see them following in her footsteps. Perhaps the Royal Household is being (much) more cautious by easing Kate into the full schedule?? (Diana did talk at length about having no training or preparation and then being pushed out in public every day with no idea what to do or say.) But they just don’t seem to have the same love for the people that Diana had.
The Palace has stated multiple times that they set their own schedule. I agree, they do not have the love for the people that Diana had.
Too bad for us! Too bad for the world.
Why do you bother covering Prince Do Nothing and his vapid wife? The more I read the more Morrissey I get about this useless welfare family.
Harry’s not bad. But, speaking of Prince Willnot. I think that the Royal Family is finally putting some pressure on him. He is starting to hijack some of Harry’s events. Stuff that Harry has been working on for months, Will shows up and shares the credit.
Here’s an invitation for The Young Leader’s Launch the other day. It shows that Harry’s name was originally the only one on the invitation/event. Yet, Will showed up (forced?) that day probably trying to compensate for his very light schedule of work? Very interesting + very telling. I kind of feel bad for Harry.
https://twitter.com/rajdey/status/486846044375089152
That’s interesting! Does anyone have any take on why William (and Charles? Was he there too?) went as well?
I know! I think it’s very, very interesting. I’m not sure why it’s not getting more coverage? It’s funny because I had thought Harry looked a little uncomfortable in some of the pics. Maybe he’s finally getting annoyed that he’s always on Wills PR cleanup duty?
They announced Wills was going to the event after the invitations went out. Probably only after the press had a field day with the renovations on the 2 homes, Willy’s new Helicopter Camp job, and the couple wanting to move away from Royal life obligations to their country house.
I don’t think Charles was at the Young Leaders Launch event. He was at the Business In The Community Gala event (the night before?).
Harry looked less than pleased in some photos from the hangout. I think he tries very hard to be loyal to his big brother. As the years go by, and he watches himself be thrown under the bus by William time and again, it gets more difficult for him to continue the unwavering support.
Harry may or may not like palace decisions or the media treatment of him but it is a wild stretch to suggest the brothers, themselves, have a problem with one another.
No, it is just as valid wild-or-tame as any other opinions being voiced here.
Ditto to what notasugarhere says.
No disrespect intended, certainly, or a desire to invalidate any opinions. Ut pointing out evidence or patterns of behavior/observations make opinions less random, imo.
“Ut pointing out evidence or patterns of behavior/observations make opinions less random, imo.” I assumed everyone on here was welcome to their own opinions. Opinions require no “evidence.”
In the US, a random opinion with no evidence of fact, is called an “uninformed opinion”.
notasugar, I totally agree opinions are opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. I will say informed opinions carry more weight with me than uninformed ones, though.
I would hope there’s a happy medium between one and the other, but that’s just me. I’d hate to see this place turn from what I always thought was pretty reasoned opinion for the most part to just another ranting hate or fan site. I’ve never understood why people are so reluctant to change an opinion they hold, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. This isn’t directed at you at all, NASH, but more a general observation. I don’t like having to break out a link with Real Factual Evidence every time I say something, but wild rants that are then taken as gospel are as bad or worse, IMO.
I appreciate all of that, Bluhare. I don’t think there are wild rants happening here. Facts that can be linked vs. “well that’s what everybody says is true” — which counts as informed? None of us are insiders, we’re all speculating.
Opinions are being treated as right or wrong. The not-so-subtle “link or lie” theme is escalating in here, deliberately, and it is unfortunate.
I know, nash. That’s why I like it here too. I agree with your post totally, as this is supposed to be fun, not school, right? That’s how I have always looked at it anyway. And as someone who was persuaded to change her mind on these two by LAK, who did have information to back up her posts, I hope that doesn’t go away. I just don’t want to see a whole lot of WaityDoNothing posts with nothing but insults either. It’s a fine line!
I think that the general caliber of royal goonies to be excellent. WillNot & CanNot give us little to do but grumble, but even then I think that their point, is (nose in air) they are simply royal as in the tradition, “I can do whatever the hell I want!”
Opinions, opinions… Some people don’t know how to even have real opinion. Public school is guaranteed in the US, in no small part because the framers of the Constitution, realized that the populace needed to be educated, in order to cast a meaningful vote. Hopefully people’s opinions are continually evolving, or what’s the point? bluhare, your missive of people who are unable to change their point of view, well, be glad that it’s not us! We want to get to the bottom of it, so we can be on top of it! Where is the shame in that?! I do believe, however, that there is a body of knowledge that has been shared by royal posters here, that is pretty much accepted, without the need for further linkage.
What a contrast to Harry’s compassionate talk with children about losing their mother. Dust yourself off and carry on. Stuff those feelings and pretend they don’t exist, so they’ll stay buried inside you and make you act like and angry, rebellious brat well into your 30s. Great advice, Wills.
It also seems incredibly two-faced for a man who basically has run with the ‘poor orphaned prince’ line in order to demand constant vacations and endless blasting of the media when it doesn’t say his royal crap shines for their wicked wicked ways in ruining first him mum’s life and now must kowtow to him eternally to make up for that to be telling others to just suck it up and deal. He’s built his entire privileged whining adult life on being the poor orphan – seems rich to expect others to just move on.
Hmmm. First lack of caffeine making it hard for me to clarify my thoughts on another post, now sucking it down too fast seems to be giving me heartburn and making me cranky. Maybe I should go back to bed…
Good point. I’m not trying to trash him over a sound bite, I just think it’s always better to acknowledge another person’s difficulty before encouraging them to move on. You don’t dust yourself off and carry on when your mother dies. You grieve terribly, THEN you dust yourself off and carry on. Unless your William, apparently.
@GNAT William is not talking to someone who just lost his mother. It happened more than a decade ago. To me this coonversation sounds like two adults talking about their own experiences.
We can’t know if Will would say the same things to a child. So IMO, comparing Harry’s exchange with children to Will’s exchange with adults is not really fair.
@maybeiamcrazy
You’re absolutely right. But the contrast, to me, is in their ability to acknowledge pain and difficulty. I think if you don’t accept that picking yourself up and moving on only happens after you mourn, and if you try to brush it off or stuff your feelings, the pain will never heal. But I didn’t hear the whole conversation, and I’m really tired of trying to explain what I mean, especially since I’m doing such a lousy job of it, I’ll just leave it at that.
GoodNames
I completely agree with you on the bulk of the conversation and the tone. Dust yourself off/remove grief/feelings. You have to feel that and move on in your own time. Just don’t wallow in it and let it consume you.
You pick yourself up when you’re ready and live your life in a way to honor your lost parent’s memory. How they ould want you to live. that their death didn’t consume your life.
This is how I think Harry just handled their mother’s death better. Harry honors her memory. William only ever talks about it to get a pass. Never out a love publicly anyways.
Although, they could have been raised that way. William had to suck it up and Harry got more affection? Maybe not though because William and Harry were the ways they are when Diana was still alive.
I agree, Jenna. This 32-year-old ManChild continues to use the mummy card to get himself out of everything from joyriding with a military helicopter, to hiding out from his royal duties, to attempting to shut down freedom of speech in the UK.
We have yet to see William pick himself up and dust himself off. He’s too busy hiding out and playing “normal” as Bill Middleton.
FLORC
I know this is how you feel but I’m surprised that you could untangle a stranger’s emotional state over the loss of a parent to this degree of criticism. I simply am not comfortable doing this. Besides, Harry getting drunk, punching a photographer, the whole Nazi thing, more than one racially insensitive remark,drunken strip poker, drug use etc etc would hardly honor his mother’s legacy.
We have yet to see William pick himself up and dust himself off.
Oh, well said, notasugarhere. He’s the last one who should be commiserating. Harry, on the other hand, has, indeed, done just that, especially by honouring his mother’s memory with his public works.
@DS. “I simply am not comfortable doing this.” If you are not comfortable doing this then don’t, but stop criticizing other people for voicing their opinions.
William was responsible for the Nazi costume. William was the one leading the way in the drinking and drug experimentation. Bill and Kate fell drunk out of clubs 4 days a week for a decade. William caught drinking heavily in a pub rather than helping with SAR during catastrophic flooding. William suing photographers, shutting down a magazine, and rendering people jobless because he got caught lying about going on vacation and ducking out on the paraolympics. William caught on video publicly stating at a charity event that one of the funders was “a bore”. William refusing to step up and do his royal duty. William using his mother’s death as a get out of anything free card.
None of that would make their mother proud.
Notasugarhere
I am okay with expressing differing opinions and having them challenged in turn but criticism is part and parcel of this site, as long as it is done respectfully. Otherwise, pot meet kettle.
As for your rundown of William’s flaws that’s lovely and informative but does it negate any of Harry’s egregious moments? Does it absolve Harry of personal responsibility? As for the Nazi costume, William was wrong for not telling Harry not to do it but it was Harry’s decision in the end. And as for William leading Harry into drugs and alcohol, just wow.
You seem to have missed the part where the shop keeper went on record: 1) William wanted to dress as a “native” but went covered in animal skins because they were out of “native” costumes and 2) William picked out Harry’s costume. They are both responsible for that situation. And yes, William was also experimenting and leading his brother down that path. The GoldenChild PR spin doesn’t play here.
Dame: What is it about William that you like so much?
Not snarking. I genuinely want to know. I’ve noticed that you are a very strong defender to point of defensiveness, so I really want to know what we are missing.
And I don’t mean a societal construct, media or psychobabble. Bluhare can attest to my once asking Kate’s fans to list the qualities that made her a role model per their opinion. And based upon their responses, I did re-evaluate my opinion from extreme position I had taken to a more sympathetic mid-point.
Please note that I don’t think that William is all bad or negative, I think that as private as he is, he has displayed some very poor or bad choices or qualities. Some of those have been listed above, so as youu continually defend him, i’m genuinely curious why?
And if you think it’s media bias that is shaping our opinion, please explain with examples how we’ve been deceived.
I’m genuinely curious.
LAK
Great question and thoughtfully constructed as well.
I am not a William defender when it is beyond clear that the allegations levied against him have been clearly and repeatedly proven. For example we can see that he is stubborn, willful, spoiled and determined to have his way in life. We can see that he is quite fond of the good life at the expense of others. We can see that he is not interested in being a full time working royal.
What we can not see are the reasons and implications of these things. What we can not see is a complete portrait of his character or personality. What we can not see is how he feels towards or interacts with the people in his life. What we can not see are the variable factors that willll shape and reshape him in the years to come – for better or worse.
What seems to prevail here is a tendency to interpret the actions of the members of the rf through one single unchanging lens. This turns flesh and blood people into archetypes and caricatures. This, in turn, prevents us from looking at the situation from every possible angle which severely limits the conversation. I love the rf threads because there is no limit to what I can learn as well as share a laugh or an anecdote with others. I love having my views turned on their heads and I love poking at the views of others.
What I don’t love is angry or disrespectful discourse. What I don’t love is seeing anyone being mobbed because their view stands alone in a sea of likemindedness.
As for William I don’t like when any bit of information about him that goes against the widespread dislike for him is ignored or twisted to look like fanfiction and therefore easier to ridicule/dismiss. None of us really know the truth but I am not uncomfortable when facts challenge what I think is probably the truth.
I used to be a huge Kate fan and I disliked William intensely. I used to side eye Harry but now I adore him. But none of these people are heroes. So if William is seriously flawed then so is Harry, HM etc. it is mot popular to say it here but tearing down one royal and glorifying another is laughable to me. So inversely, William must have traits that are admirable. On sites other than this one the narrative shifts more clearly into focus, imo.
I am just trying to be balanced. In that process I also hope I am doing it with thoughtfulness, curiosity and respect.
I can’t criticize him for this. Everybody has different ways of handling with grief. If it is Will’s way, I hope it works/worked for him.
Yes, thank you. Grief is such a personal, private, devastating thing. It’s a little heartless to police the way William expresses his grief. I’m all for giving him shit about his work habits but this is the most terrible thing in his life and it’s awful that people can’t respect his personal and private journey through it.
I lost my mother at a young age too, and feel a bond with anyone else who has, including these two. That grief never goes away and you always have that little kid inside you wondering why it happened. It does seem a little heartless to jump on this out of context statement as a story.
oh my i know it sounds mean but …urgh his head! DM had some really bad photos. Water on his ugly comb over. That´s so Homer Simpsons … and then his big yellow teeth.
He was so hot before he hit the 20… it´s just sad now.
It kills me that he has a comb over in the first place. How anyone can think comb overs are a good idea is beyond me.
I’m wondering why he did not get any hair replacement procedures…he could afford it, and was able to procure the finest doctors.
Well Diana didn’t have the opportunity to raise and guide them for the past two decades so it shouldn’t be too shocking that Wills is quite guarded with his emotions like his living family. Losing a parent in private is different than losing one in public. I’m sure plenty of people wanted to profit off of his emotional vulnerability so it further toughened him.
As a side note, just because Diana preferred emotional expression doesn’t mean that it’s right. Please consider taking her off her pedestal. She didn’t deserve to die young but few people do; let her be human.
Too early in the morning for the snarky comments on Prince William. Everyone grieves differently.
+1. It’s a terrible, terrible, terrible loss, especially at such a young age, especially on a public stage. It’s horribly insensitive to judge him for the way he speaks about it, especially considering how close he and Diana were.
+1
It’s easy to move on when you inherit a mega-trust from your dead parent like they both did.
Seriously? Having money doesn’t mean you don’t get pain. What an ignorant statement.
“Having money doesn’t mean you don’t get pain.”
It helps ease the hardship that most people deal with. The end.
As mentioned all over this thread, William and Harry continue to deal with the loss of their mother differently. I don’t think it is easy to move on, but William and Harry never had to worry about money, a roof over their head, etc. as many others do. They still had a father (a wealthy one) to raise them, which people tend to forget.
The brothers mentioned in this story lost both parents at the same time, nearly lost their own lives, and had to save their two younger siblings from the tsunami. Terrified, no idea where their parents were, chaos everywhere. How long do you wait, clinging to the roof of the house, trying to keep your crying siblings from sliding into the water? How long do you wait before you admit your parents are gone, and the four of you start hitch-hiking across the country to safety?
Along with this, they probably lost their home, moved to social services or the care of a relative, lost the parental income that may have paid for college, etc. They also had to become the parents to their two younger siblings.
Does having money make it easier emotionally to lose a loved one? I don’t know, I’ve never been wealthy so have no personal basis for comparison. Not having wealth can add enormously to the burden of loss in general.
Obviously money makes things easier–welcome to life. To say it would make things “easy” is far off the mark. You don’t have to be orphaned and broke to have the death of a family member suck beyond anything else you will ever experience. It isn’t a competition.
They pay a lot for that wealth that you wouldn’t believe, but most if you will dismiss it as “conspiracy theory” because it’s so psychologically unpleasant to think about.
I feel very sorry for them all for being born into that rotten family.
Where do I find some of this “psychological unpleasantness”?
Well said.
That’s a disgusting comment @Talie, and I’m very much anti-Royal. The loss of a parent gave me a financial windfall and believe me you can have every cent of it back, everything it paid for and every dollar I have earned since and I’ll go live on the streets if it would bring my parent back. I’m amazed how ignorant people can be.
Nevertheless, Mia4S, the cold, hard reality of life is that money makes the world go ’round. If you don’t have it, you have to try and suspend your grief in order to go make a living, when all you want – and need – to do is spend time absorbing and accepting the gargantuan loss, and integrating the new paradigm into your old one. A grieving child who still has to worry about making ends meet is significantly more burdened than a grieving child who doesn’t have to worry about money.
This is opinion not necessarily fact. Money or the lack of it are tangential to the loss.for some wills, estates, trusts and the headache/squabbling/family greed may be an obstacle to processing their grief. No two situations are alike and in some circumstances wealth can create an artificially complacent environment that makes a painful loss that much more difficult to adjust to, whether the bills are paid or not.
I lost my father when I was 8 and one of the many thoughts that haunted me at that age- yes an 8 year old understands the concept of money-, was what would happen to us if my mother died too and the fact that we wouldn’t have my fathers income.
Kids understand more than you think and can make complicated thoughts. It’s not about money and greed, it’s about survival.
@ Dame Snarkweek – We’ll have to agree to disagree. In my unfortunately wide experience in this area, I have learned the hard way that it’s much better to have the money following the loss than to not have it. Even with family squabbling involved.
With Willie’s situation, the squabbling & such are moot. He’s loaded and he will never, ever have to worry about money. Correspondingly, I’ll never, ever feel sorry or sympathetic for him.
Wow , Nymeria, you think money makes someone undeserving of compassion and consideration? That’s a really harsh statement about you.
@Nymeria, I get your point. I spend my summers working with boys whose parents have died and/or either they have been in foster care for so long that they can’t even remember a time when they weren’t (because family won’t step-in to take them). Most of them, not all, are worried about everyday survival (physical, emotional/psychological, and general predation)–hoarding food, etc. These things can happen as a result of various scenarios but I get what you mean when it comes to base survival and Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
Those boys, some as young as 6, are in tough situations. Some have already been sexually, mentally, psychological/emotionally abused and financially exploited.
You have no empathy for a person whose mother died a tragic and early death, just because he has money. OK.
I don’t know who told you money means you’re not a real person or that your feelings will always be trivial. But as another poster said, tht statement says much more about you than it does about him.
I agree. Losing a loved one hurts whether you make $20k or $20 million each year. That said, the ability to carry on is completely different for someone like William compared to an orphan who has nothing! No family, no home, no money, and probably very little opportunities to receive a good education or a job later in life. William’s remarks make it clear that he just doesn’t get it. Of course I believe he grieved for the death of his mother, but he had the support both financially and emotionally from other family members to move on. Orphans do not have that and deserve even more sympathy.
Everyone is entitled to grieve in their own way, but I think he needs to work on his phrasing. He comes off as a cold insensitive tool, even though I think he was just being typically stoic.
Harry has always been the more emotional brother anyway. William is way more reserved, and that’s fine.
Agreed- he’s expressing how he handled such a loss. And quite frankly, what advice do you think he was given at 15? Probably just that.
Admittedly, I don’t follow his work/appearence schedule, but really don’t get the level of mean directed at him. I guess the target shifts over the years- Camilla is now treated fairly benignly, which is a big change!
Now he has an official excuse for more vacations!
Aargh! That photo! Sorry, William, but if George sees you in a snorkel and mask he’ll be scarred for life.
Aaargh! That snorkel and mask photo! Imagine little George splooshing happily around in his bath and that comes through the door. He’d be scarred for life!
I saw those scuba pics and videos over on hello, and thought he was quite sweet with the kids that were there. Very interactive and engaging-like others have said sports seems to be the strong suit for both him and Kate
http://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/2014070919825/prince-william-bsac-president-queen-initiative/
As for the other comment-15 years after my grandparents passed within 3 days of each other, my dad very much describes that era as ‘you mourn forever, but then you have to pick yourself up off the floor and carry on with life’. It’s been over 10 years for William and 10 years for the guy he was talking to-not a recent event where that would be callous. But you do realize it as time passes from when you lose someone, life goes on. That tragedy for those two involved with the tsnumani does have a silver lining of inspiring them to found this charity that has done so much good and to move on with their lives.
Totally agree on both points. Kate and Will should do a lot more sporting events. Their speechifying work ethic is always questionable, but they both genuinely love sports and being physically active. And Will was trying to be positive instead of dwelling on tragedy because the event was about celebrating the Gandys’ accomplishments.
I don’t think what he said was insensitive, maybe on paper it is. Idk. Now, Will in wetsuit. Yeah, I still want to see him in it. He’s packing. Just don’t show the face. He’s not bad looking but I don’t want his Jon Heder looks ruin it for me.
That 2004 tsunami was such a… I don’t have the necessary words. Some of what I saw still haunts me. I have nothing but admiration for the Forkan boys.
Wow-people are really taking his comments out of context. He’s not speaking to a bunch of kids who just lost their parents and are grieving. He’s paying to tribute to a family that lost their parents and were able to move on. He’s describing what they did-they picked themselves up and moved on and have done great things.
I agree. People are reading way too much into that one statement. Also, he’s right. My life experience has taught me that having an attitude of “I will get over this and be ok and carry on” is much better than the alternative. No matter how much it hurts, if you ever want life to get better you have to try to move on instead of letting life’s challenges conquer you.
I agree, and that’s my attitude as well, but it don’t SAY that to someone else. I’m not trying to trash him, and things look worse out of context, etc., but I think it’s important to acknowledge to another human being that what they are going through is difficult, and that it was difficult for you, but you survived. For example, I had breast cancer. It was very difficult and scary, but now I’m fine. When someone tells me they have breast cancer, I don’t just say “you’ll be fine.” I tell them the truth. It sucks completely for awhile, but you’ll get through it, and then you’ll be fine.”
I re-read the post and I think William was actually praising them for getting on with their lives. But what about someone who just lost a parent who reads that remark. It seems to me he should have said something first to acknowledge their pain, rather than just stiff upper lip, but none of us says the right thing all the time.
It would have been a terribly insensitive thing to say somebody who has just recently gone through a loss. I try to look at somebody’s intentions before I make judgments and in this case, I believe his intentions were good. Perhaps, he should’ve thought about what somebody who recently suffered a loss would feel like with those words, but like you said we usually don’t say the right thing at the right time.
Congratulations on beating breast cancer, I watched my mom fight through breast cancer. You have to be a very strong person to get through that; she is 5 years cancer free now. 🙂
Thanks, MrsB. So happy for your mom, and for you.
@ GNAT
He probably did say something to acknowledge their loss before making that comment. We don’t have the whole conversation, the quote comes from one of the young men describing his conversation with Will.
Met too. I’m not going to beat William up over a sound bite. If William was speaking to young children who had recently lost their parents, this comment would be totally inappropriate. But it was said in the context of a conversation between adults who all lost parents as teenagers — decades ago — this comment makes sense. Sounds to me like he was commiserating with peers about the shared experience of losing parents in a tragic accident — and he’s earned that right.
Agreed. And its not like the comment was in the context of a speech, where you can assume other people will listen to your words and apply them to their own experience – that would be a completely different scenario. Sure, he could assume that everything he is saying is being caught on camera, but it would be pretty difficult to spontaneously connect on a personal level with someone if you have to be constantly thinking about how every word will be construed.
In a conversation between two adults who lost a parent/parents over a decade ago, I see it as William drawing on their shared experience to make a personal connection. I think it’s really good to see him doing this – he’s making a genuine effort when he could have just classified how he dealt with his mother’s death as private and refused to talk about it at all.
+ 1000
The nitpicking of his comments is ridiculous.
+1
The same could be said about Hilary Mantel’s comments about Kate Middleton, yet the bashing of Mantel continues for comments taken out of context.
@notasugarhere:
The bashing of one does not excuse the bashing of another.
Paying attention to the context of people’s statements, with compassion, is good advice across the board.
I never said it did justify it, I was merely pointing out the fact that comments taken out of context are comments taken out of context. Some will bash for one sentence taken out of context. Others will read the full text of what William said and still agree that he wasn’t as successful at this event as he could have been.
Thanks for clarifying; your initial comment was unclear. As you originally said, both Mantel and Prince William have had their comments taken out of context. I would say both situations have drawn overheated criticism that seeks a knee-jerk reaction.
Exactly – I took it as complimentary to all they’ve accomplished. There are people who, despite their grief, can take a terrible tragedy and use the emotions behind it to do something good for the world. That does require a certain amount of “dusting oneself off”, and that strength and commitment is quite admirable.
Side note, I’m not a big celebrity baby gossip reader, but all of the George photos and stories are just awesome.
Prince Charles not knowing what buff means reminds me of the Dowager Countess and “What’s a weekend?”
LOL, I tried to google this to find Prince Charles asking the question about buff.
Instead, I found this gem of Charles speaking before William went diving in a pool with children. I think I like Charles, he reminds me of my dad and his corny jokes 🙂
http://williamkategeorge.tumblr.com/post/91352365578
I have such a soft spot for Charles. Dorky dads across the world unite!
😉
Maggie Smith is amazing as the Dowager Countess – she can deliver these scathing remarks with perfect aplomb and a dry with. I recently rewatched season 1 and howled with laughter when she told Mrs. Crawley: “stick that in your pipe and smoke it!”.
I think a little more sympathy and compassion is needed when speaking to orphans. Just my opinion.
They’re not little kids. Calling them orphans makes it sound like he said it to 10 year olds.
That’s the title of the article though…
My opinion as well. His comment will reach more than a few other orphans.
I think I get where Wills is coming from. Some people don’t realize that many factors played into how William perceive coping up with a tragedy. Being the elder of the two boys and at the age that he was when Diana died, Wills might have felt that he was expected to “keep a stiff upper lip”, compared to Harry who was younger and not in the spotlight as much at the time because he was “the spare”.
I am the eldest of four siblings, and when my grandmother (whom all of us were close to) passed away, it was kind of “expected” that I put on a brave face and get through the funeral in one piece, because my mum and aunts were all breaking down and nobody was there to be the support system. Meanwhile, my brother and two sisters were visibly being upset. I don’t resent it, but by nature older siblings is expected to be the stronger one in the face of a tragedy. William is just speaking through experience, in my opinion.
And based on various bios, William was the one to deal with the fallout of the marriage. There are stories of how he stuffed tissues under the bathroom door to his mother when she locked herself in crying. Things like that as a young boy can leave you uncomfortable with overt forms of emotion. Harry seems to have been a bit more insulated from the drama as the younger while Diana probably exposed William to too much.
He and Diana were very very close. She leaned on him perhaps too much. What’s especially sad is that they were in a pretty normal teenager and parent fight when she died. I think his last words to her were negative and that weighs heavily on him.
I have read the same, Kenny Boy. Regret and guilt make grief 10000% harder.
Just get a hair transplant, William.
Why not? Women do all sorts of things to look pretty…
Big Willy is looking rather nice in his wetsuit. Nice legs there, Duke.
As for his comment, I believe he was basically just saying as hard as it is to lose a parent, you must move along with life. I don’t think he meant it or said it in the cold manner of which it comes in print. It seems a bit unfair for the public to compare his emotions to Harry’s. They are two individuals who handle their emotions differently, but that doesn’t mean William is an emotionless person. He just expresses it differently. And that’s fine.
Ha ha! Totally checked out his bod. He doesn’t do it for me generally, but he is working that wetsuit.
The Daily Mail should have told us how the Duke was “boldly showcasing his shapely thighs or “saucily revealing his twig and berries.”
I don’t like his work ethic but I think what he said was fine in this context. It’s not perfect but I honestly don’t think he was trying to address orphans who have just had the loss. The focus here are on those two men who carried on and created something good out of their loss. So I am just going to focus on the positive message
At least he didn’t say it’ll get better with time.
Given the circumstances, dusting themselves off and carrying on was exactly what those poor kids had to do, literally, across Sri Lanka. Something there are never right words but I’m sure they took it as he meant it and that there was a genuine feeling of empathy there.
People shouldn’t tell someone else how to grieve or when to stop grieving.
I think that we are looking for the tenderness that Harry showed. I believe that William will get more understanding and accomplished, in seeing and then using, the right words, as they can have such an impact. He is wielding a double-edged sword, and I can see him getting better as time goes by. Practice will help him…and he should read all our comments for additional direction.
I have to say i always feel bad when people ask William and Harry about their mother in interviews. It´s years, they are now their own persons and grown ups, but people constantly ask about Diana… “Do you think your mother… do you miss her … would you like her to be here and see you …” That´s private! I would hate it if i had to discuss this with strangers every single time i give an interview. Sometimes you just don´t want to talk about your loss.
Yes, William plays the Diana-card if it suits him, but i see no reason why journalists always ask about his dead mother. Even Kate had to answer questions a la “would you have liked to meet her? What do you feel about her” etc.
Constantly asking and remembering strangers about dead relatives/friends is just mean.
Especially now that they’ve lived more of their lives without her than with her. It’s been 17 years and they are both grown men with life experiences totally separate. Plus it’s no ones business–so much of their mother was shared with the public, they should be allowed their personal grief and memories of her.
I think it’s mean to accuse him of playing the Diana card. Really mean!!!
You are so right!
To be fair, William does use Diana card frequently. I absolutely do not criticize his way of dealing with Diana’s death. Everybody reacts to death of a parent differently. I have no right to say Will’s way is worse than anybody else’s. Maybe I can relate because my reaction to my mother’s death was very similar to Will’s and I would rather hide in a corner than show my vulnerability in the public eye.
There are so many things Will can be criticized for, his lack of work ethic being the main one. But for the life of me, I can’t see why Will saying this to an adult, who lost his parents a decade ago, is up for criticism.
I agree that how he grieves is his business. The fact that he does play the Diana card frequently is a separate issue, but yes, he does play the Diana card and has for over a decade.
Not going to hate on him at all for this because I completely understand what he’s saying and where he’s coming from. Everyone copes differently. I lost my dad very suddenly when I was 12 and once all the….excitement (for lack of a better word) was over and everyone went home and my house had one less person, everything became so much more daunting. I coped with it by carrying on and doing my best to keep a stiff upper lip. By just accepting that this was my new life and shoving down any tears or sadness that came up. It wasn’t until I was around 18 or 19 that I truly began to deal with his death, because I was in more of a place where I was capable of that.
So I completely understand saying “dust yourself off and carry on” when it comes to losing parents young. I was not equipped to deal with it or understand what I was feeling at the time, I was simply too young. So in essence, I delayed it until I had matured and grown and was physically and mentally able to handle the grieving process.
I don’t think anyone should judge ANYONE for how they handle loss. But especially if you haven’t experienced what that person has experienced. Some kids deal with losing a parent young better, or in a more “acceptable” manner. Others are like me, and like William and have to deal with it differently. People have said “Harry wouldn’t have said that.” And you may be right, because Harry is a different person than William and probably handled it differently. It’s unfair and unkind to compare the two in this type of situation.
Easy for him to say. Not everybody has a staff of servants waiting on them hand and foot the instant they are out of the womb.
What does have to do with loss and grief? There are things that are universal and have nothing to do with money. I’d say this is one of them.
No, it’s not. When losing a parent means you cannot eat or have to go live with strangers (where, in the U.S. foster system, you are highly likely to be abused, and the U.S. is one of the BETTER places in the world to be an orphan), it is as different from Will’s situation as it is possible to be.
So you’re saying because William is wealthy he doesn’t grieve for his mother like a poor person would grieve for theirs? If I didn’t make myself clear, I meant the emotions involved with grief. Losing someone you love and spending the rest of your life grieving for them has nothing to do with money.
I have to agree with FingerBinger… just because you have money, doesn’t mean you have no feelings… Money doesn’t substitute for a mother or a father….
Skins, your comment is bang on (as is EmilyC’s). Can’t believe I had to scroll through 32 comments to find commonsense. While I agree that wealth and servants can’t make grief disappear, it’s certainly easier to “dust yourself off” when you have access to millions and a fairly extensive support network of wealthy, well-connected individuals to help you.
No one knows how anyone else grieves. To suggest that money or connections makes the process less horrible or somehow more bearable it really offensive.
No but money makes it easier. I wonder if he would have gotten on so well in life if he had had to live in orphanages, move around from foster family to foster family, live on the streets. Let’s not pretend that environmental circumstances don’t affect you later in life. True, orphaned children who are placed into foster care can make something of themselves but they are the exception to the rule. Most go on to have tough lives.
When you have a nice cushion preventing you from that, of course you’re going to move on more easily. You’re dealing with one hardship instead of multiples; losing your parents, losing your home, being forced to move somewhere else, etc. Lest we forget death, moving, these all take huge tolls on us, so imagine losing both of your parents (William still has Charles), AND being forced to move to a new, unknown environment.
Potentially offensive to you Megan, but clearly not to some others.
Hey, since we’re talking about why and where people take offense here, how about it’s offensive for you to call Megan’s position “potentially” so. Money and stability are not as concrete a concept for children. Losing a mother at a young age is a very specific wound. Grief is personal, we’re all human, and money doesn’t make the loss of a caretaker less horrible. I don’t see how you can disagree with this. If you want to criticize this person so badly, he has plenty of public character flaws; most where I would agree with you. Harping on this particular point is ghastly.
I was trying to point out that I do not know what Megan feels personally until she voices it, and she does not know what every other person feels. Her comment reads like a sweeping judgment that cookiemonster’s comment was offensive to *everyone else* including Megan.
As you yourself stated, grief is personal. None of us – none of us – knows for a fact what a stranger is feeling. We’re typing opinions here. For some people, having money may ease the loss of a caretaker in some ways or rather, NOT having money may make the loss of a caretaker even more difficult.
A child who loses their mother and their home suffers differently than a child who loses their mother but still has a roof over their head. Money may not be as concrete to a child, but being warm/fed/housed/grieving vs. cold/hungry/homeless/grieving are concepts they can comprehend.
Iseepinkelefants – since his father was still alive, and he had extended family willing to care for him, it’s a moot point to speculate what would have happened if William went to an orphanage. Why Criticize William for impossible hypothetical situations?
@notasugarhere
Homelessness, extreme poverty, financial instability will greatly exacerbate any already difficult situation. Though we all suffer in degrees of difference from one another, losing a mother is VERY specific, and this is, unfortunately and perhaps singularly, an issue where he can speak with some authority.
Prince William may be a rather insufferable trust fund layabout, and I encourage you to attack him on all those fronts. I’m saying something very simple: going online to repeatedly criticize him for talking about how it feels to process grief as a child is a less than savory way to channel your dislike for him.
“going online to repeatedly criticize him for talking about how it feels to process grief as a child is a less than savory way to channel your dislike for him. ” In which of my comments do you think I did this? I don’t dislike like him, I dislike his actions.
On this thread I’ve commented on William playing the Diana card (this is not related to processing grief), and his actions like clubbing and ducking duties showing his sheltered immaturity. I stated that I think how he grieves is his business. If you read through my comments, they’re mostly about posters making sweeping generalizations, the dangers of assuming you know what someone else is thinking or feeling, taking comments out of context, valuing instead of devaluing opinions, and the economics of death.
notasugarhere: I believe that you would make more headway, focusing on the concepts that you agree with or non, than talking about how other people post. We are all grown-up’s after all, and perfectly capable of seeing the generalizations, assumptions, and so forth, just as well as you. You have a keen intellect, and I enjoy that immensely. I bet that you could be bold without making others feel defensive! Empathy is about knowing how other people feel.
It’s challenging for me too, and I’m still learning.
Personally, I think some people are actually being too cruel. He didn’t say anything wrong, he was just unfortunate in his word choices. It’s a fact that life does go on… and one has to be strong enough to deal with what happened, grieve and move on… Comparing both brothers is not a good idea. They have different tempers and different ways of showing their feelings. Sometimes, being or showing to be colder and more distant is actually a way of protecting oneself from the pain, it doesn’t mean that you don’t feel. I’m a lot like that, I put on a mask of “superwoman” who can deal with anything. Then, when I’m alone, I cry… Maybe he’s like that too…
Nighty, I want to give you a hug… your words are so touching.
During the exact same gathering William reportedly “expressed sympathy” and said that his marriage and child was his silver lining that helped him move on. Seeing as how he married at 30 this is hardly the attitude of someone who is blithe about losing a parent. But the media reports what they feel is likely to sell.
I agree, that is a good thing Snarky; I’m glad that his family can be all that.
Of course there’s a silver lining when you’re phenomenally wealthy and have a large family and, indeed, an ENTIRE COUNTRY to take care of you.
When Harry talked about losing his mother, and how it made him identify with orphaned children, he did so with grace and humility, acknowledging that those kids had immense hardships that he, with his immense privilege, found it difficult to even imagine. He didn’t trot out any “silver lining” bs, and he was plenty emotional. Will has done the opposite. He does not acknowledge his ridiculously immense privileges, or that other people do not have the stupid level of resources he had and has.
What did the royal family do so right with Harry that they did so wrong with Will?
Or is it that Harry is simply better at gauging what not to say than is William?
Neither of these twats has any notion whatsoever of hardship. No. Notion. Whatsoever. They live in a completely, utterly, wholly different world.
I think Harry is more emotionally intelligent, which is one of the traits he got from their mother.
Economic hardship, definitely not, and they will never understand it.
Emotional hardship, of course, for the loss of a loved parent when they were all so young. Their mother was/is a global icon. 17 years after she died, people still say things to them like “I loved your mother. I was so sad when she died.”
The weight of expectation, the attempt to live up to that legacy, is enormous and is its own form of hardship. Caroline Kennedy probably understands it, but she is one of the few who can.
It’s funny because William always seemed like he was Diana’s favorite so having spent more time with her you would think he would have adopted her traits. Instead Harry seems to get the bulk of his traits from her side (maybe his way of seeking her attention?). I always figured when Diana passed that the RF enveloped William more (because he was the heir) and in effect undid all of the traits she instilled on him. It created a monster. He seems completely out of touch, overly privileged, and immune to empathy. He’s completely unlikeable.
William seems to have always been petulant, with a huge sense of entitlement. Who can, or will try, to tone that down a bit? He is the child who knew he would be king, and was exulted, by that sense of power. Is he able to feel grateful, own his good luck, or understand that he is merely human; like all of us? You have to be connected to feel empathy. This love that he felt from his countrymen, is he able to give that back?
That is the problem. Will was raised that way. He thinks he is entitled to taxpayers money and all the luxury and privileges that comes with being royalty because he was thaught that way. So nobody is going to tone that down because everyone around him thinks the same way as well. HM and Prince Charles are as entitled as Will too. But they actually ‘work’. IMHO, BRF made a big mistake by raising the heir as they had in the past. Will’s huge sense of entitlement and conceit have no place in modern monarchy.
What is encouraging or comforting varies greatly from person to person.
The first chance I had to chat in person with a sister who had just let family know she was divorcing her adulterous husband is case in point. I told her I was so sorry for her suffering. She angrily shot back at me that was not helpful and she needed me to say things like ‘you’ll get through this’.
That’s because if she gave into it she’d cry. She was trying to steel herself.
So true bluhare.
Please I doubt he even bathes his kid. He probably tried once and then just said “let the nannies do it”. Having moved to France where aupair culture is such a norm it’s so strange to me to hear these people complain about their children, children they never spend time with because they have help to do it. I can’t feel empathy for them because they have the ability to just hand them off, so anything he even says about his son (his complaints) just makes me roll my eyes because I doubt he puts up with it. This trying to find common ground with other parents doesn’t work for him when he has two nannies.
Ah for his comment about his Mum, different cultures, different coping mechanisms, different upbringing. William seems very cold any way so it’s not surprising. It was a bit insensitive to say in the presence of people who lost their parents, who you don’t know how they coped (what if they cried their eyes out and you’re basically saying their way of doing it was wrong?). He should have saved that comment for a different event.
He probably hears about his son’s behavior through Kate who either observes or talks about it with the nannies. I just get the feeling that William is not a hands-on father that spends the majority of his time outside of “work” with his son. To him marrying and having a child was an obligation – part of his “job” as a prince.
The people to whom he was talking had no problem with what he said, meaning it made good sense to them in context.
I also didn’t get the idea that Diana’s sons were enveloped in the warm bosom of a nurturing family after her death. Weren’t they both in boarding school? Didn’t they have to go back to school? They may have had financial security, but emotional security- not so much. William’s role was quite different in dealing with it also, since he was the older brother. The oldest child is generally a buffer for the younger ones, all the parental dysfunction especially hits them the hardest. The younger one always has the older one as a more sensible person around, and has less of a burden from parental nonsense. Diana may very well have leaned way too much on her older son, despite other good features. She may simply have not been as good a mother for teenagers as she was when they were younger, that often happens. Not for lack of love, but the needs change dramatically.
Ayre — unfortunately for MOST children in the real world losing a mother means losing a home, losing food, losing protection against physical/sexual abuse, IN ADDITION to losing the only love and affection they will ever know as children. Those are pretty concrete concepts to children too and it’s pretty silly not to acknowledge that.
That said, I don’t think William meant to be unkind — it’s just what he is — out if touch, myopic. And in his case you can definitely see the insides coming out. He does looks like a drowned rat or weasel in that scuba outfit.
Lisa – where are you getting your facts from? Most children who lose a mother are cared for by their father or other relatives.
Megan — most of the world does not live and have the support network of a middle class life in N. America or W. Europe. Fact.
Lisa: know this is an older comment – not meaning to “pile on”, here. But many other cultures have family support networks that extend far beyond the stereotypical nuclear family structure. Cambodians, Filipino, Chinese, Mexican to name a few, all amply represented here in the U.S.
Also, as the U.S. is a mix of cultures, the “middle class” generalization cannot be applied across the board – for example, see the tight family units, spanning generations in New Orleans, who include even 5th or 6th cousins as “close family”. Or my Italian American relatives, who even include honorary aunts and uncles as part of the family and who, I assure you, would (and have) stepped in for one they consider a relative (whether “relative” in genetic fact or not).
Regardless of economic class, many cultures have a reputation for strong, extended family units. Family support in the form of love or caring is not a province of the middle class; many have pooled meager finances to make room for another at the table.
Hi Lisa, My argument is that the loss of a mother affects a child differently than financial difficulties do. I will stand by my point that a suddenly lost mother is a very distinct concept to a child. They tend to blame themselves for her absence, and to turn inward. The resulting emotional isolation can be very difficult to process for a young soul, and often lead to emotional difficulties as an adult.
Hunger, fear, or physical and sexual abuse are OF COURSE beyond tragic for any child. Nowhere did I say that we shouldn’t acknowledge those tragedies. What a monster I would have to be to suggest that.
In any case we can agree William looked like a drowned rat in the pool. He has an enviable figure but yikes, what happened to that golden teenager!
Hi Ayre — I’m not disputing the emotional/psychological trauma experienced by any child who loses a parent. But surely you can agree that a William has not faced any of the additional logistical challenges that many children who lose a parent do? Given that it does seem a bit patronizing for him to be giving others the brush it off advice. His life is so removed from reality I think he just needs to shut it — his thoughts are irrelevant, non sequiturs.
Glad we agree on the drowned rat look but can’t agree on the body — pasty doesn’t do it!
No, I’m not saying he’s had to face those challenges, and I’m not standing up for the let-them-eat-cake rich types, I promise. Anything he might ever say about anything would be patronizing. He’s a prince. But on this one I’ll give the drowned rat a pass. Anyway, thanks for talking to me like a person. (And Lisa, I am pasty as a mofo so I can’t hate on him for having mushroom-in-a-cave skin like me :))
PS for anyone who cares I just came back from seeing Edge of Tomorrow and it was awesome. Tom Cruise still has it, who knew?
Lisa – you don’t have to be a middle class American or European to be cared for by your other parent or your extended family. You are making a broad generalization that just isn’t true.
My mom died when I was six and my dad raised me and my two sisters (who were 10 and 12) as a single parent from that age. He remarried when I was 18. So here’s a shout out for Dads who do their best.
Michael Phelps is so much hotter.
Not to diminish William’s loss, but I don’t think his situation and the situation of these two brothers is comparable. Diana wasn’t swept away in a tsunami whilst he clung to a roof top hoping not to drown, wondering where his mum was and if she was alive. He’s never had to hitch anywhere, or incur the dangers that are associated with that, just so that he can get to his remaining family. If they’re mourning, if it took them a little long to get themselves in order, that’s completely fine.
Wee Willy Winge is so completely thoughtless. He’s lazy and whiney and has zero compassion. He lacks the common touch, and it’s so painfully evident when he’s juxtaposed with Harry who’s got charisma and empathy oozing out of every pore.