Note: There are many, many Game of Thrones spoilers in this post. If you are not reading the Game of Thrones books and don’t want the TV show spoiled, do not read this post.
Yesterday, Gawker published a fan-made video explaining a popular “theory” about Jon Snow’s true parents. I think even the most mild GoT-fans refuse to believe the general story about Jon Snow being the product of Ned Stark’s relations with an unknown woman. Anyway, the fan-made video that Gawker posted caused a spoiler-tastic kerfuffle, but I still enjoyed watching it (the dude explains the theory really well):
So, is this just a “theory”? The Gawker commenters seem to think that so many hints have been dropped throughout the series thus far that this “theory” is basically GoT canon by now. I mean, does anyone really believe that Jon Snow is Ned Stark’s biological son? No. Even Sean Bean, the actor who played Ned Stark, does not believe it. Bean gave a new interview to Vulture and he got super-excited with the idea of going back to GoT to drop some major spoilers:
Vulture: Since you’re almost done shooting Legends, that might mean you have a window in your schedule if Game of Thrones needs you back. There are flashbacks that they could be doing for season five …
Bean: [Excited] Are they? Really?Vulture: I could be wrong, but I think they might show flashbacks via Bran’s connection to the heart trees.
Bean: Oh, yeah, yeah! And I’m his father, so that would be great fun! Just to go back to that for a while, it would be such fun to do. It would be great! It would be bizarre, but it would be great! So I guess if they’re going to do flashbacks, then yeah!Vulture: Well, it’s just my theory …
Bean: But it’s a good theory! And that should happen, shouldn’t it? I’ve definitely got some unfinished business that needs to be resolved there. I’m obviously not Jon Snow’s dad. And you need that to be revealed at some point, don’t you? So Bran would kind of be the one having the flashback, and he would see Ned praying, right? And revealing those things? You never know what those guys are going to do with that. It’s got to be something special. But I’m into that. I certainly would be into that. Print that! Give them a nudge. [Laughs.] Hopefully I’ll get a call soon.
I have mixed feelings about Bean as a person, but I think it’s lovely that he got SO excited with the idea of coming back to GoT even if it’s just for a cameo/flashback/dream-sequence or something. Like, he still cares about those characters. He’s still into it. He still wants to be a part of it. That’s pretty awesome. And yeah, he’s not Jon Snow’s father.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Vote for Pedro.
Lol yeah Pedro was hot.
Speaking of, where the hell is Benjen?
Where the hell IS Benjen?
Could he be a White Walker? For the record, I don’t think the WW’s are quite the villains they’ve been made out to be…
*I can’t believe I’m still geeking out on this thread. 🙂
Make this happen, HBO!!!
Yes, they need to bring him back for the background story. Regarding John Snow, he will have to die at some point, but here’s the catch: That crazy red-head Melissandre will have to bring Jon back to life—remember that she practices that weird religion and she hangs with the the resurrection crowd. Even though Jon pledged his life to the Night’s Watch, he will no longer have any ties to the Nights Watch because his watch will have ended with his death. Essentially, he will have already served his…this lifetime for the Night’s Watch, leaving open the new resurrected life…his next lifetime….to become King—-ideally with Dany by his side, but Dany’s fate is far less certain.
(Assuming it is safe to post book SPOILER because this whole post is marked as a spoiler)
I don’t think he truly does die. He won’t need Melisandre because he is a warg and his last word is “Ghost”. Is his body dead but mind alive because he now possesses his wolf?
Yes, of course.
Despite his ornery behavior at times, I love this dude as an actor and hope the GOT team does bring him back for some flashback scenes. The guy had awesome gravitas as Ned Stark!
He’s like the Brit Alec Baldwin.
except Sean can act.
He’s no where near as obnoxious as Alex Baldwin. But like Megsie says, he can act.
Yeah he gets a full pass from me, drunken asshole that he is IRL, but he totally crushes it on set.
+1, LOL!
me too
I know. i can’t help it. I would totally let him throw it in me.
Too crass?
Not at all. He can toss his hotdog down my hallway anytime. 😀
LOL. Can Ned Stark have a Black Wench? Could I play her? I welcome nude scenes with him!
They’re not even subtle about the truth of Jon Snow’s parentage on the show. I went into GoT totally virgin, had never read the books or heard anything about it except that it was a really good show everyone was watching (I got into after season 2 had already aired). And even in my wholly naive state, I figured out within the first two episodes that Ned Stark wasn’t Jon Snow’s dad. I started googling around to see if anyone else was talking about this and discovered it’s a huge fan theory from the books that’s been going on for years. Maybe it’s more subtle in the books, but the show laid on the subtext pretty thick, especially during the Baratheons visit to Winterfell.
R+L=J
I think the R+L=J theory is pretty sound as far as GoT speculation goes.
It may be fans seeing things or making links and connections that aren’t really there, but it seems fairly well sign-posted.
I don’t see GRRM dropping all those hints and prophecies in simply to act as a massive red herring. That would be the cop-out to end all cop-outs.
Clearly I need to work on my listening/general paying attention skills though, because I barely noticed it in the show!
Where it really leapt out at me in the show was in season 1, when Ned and Robert are in the crypt talking about Lyanna. Ned says something like, “You didn’t know her like I did,” pretty clearly implying that Robert has this false vision of Lyanna and that she was, in reality a very different, probably worse, person than he thinks. And there was one point when Ned was visibly uncomfortable reminiscing about Robert killing Rhaegar at the battle of whatever that made me think he saw those events in a completely different light.
I Ride R+L = J too! Jon Snow is the song of Fire and Ice and maybe Dany becomes the cray Targaryen
I read an amazing series of essays about Daenerys and her POV chapters in the books!
A complete variation from most of the Dany worship, but it was interesting to read about how she may be struggling with the Targaryen madness but the audience doesn’t notice because she’s an unreliable narrator.
Most of the theories are shot down by the way events play out in the show though, so it’s highly unlikely that the ‘mad theory’ is valid.
Still worth a read if anyone’s interested (heavy book spoilers from Book 1 to present —-);
http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iv-a-darker-daenerys/
There’s lots of cool spoilerific theories on Reddit’s Game of Thrones page also. 🙂
yeah 🙁 I’m a Dany fangirl through and through but I am willing to entertain the possibility she loses it in the end. I’m hoping her return to Dothraki lands straightens her out. On the other hand, I can see her taking the role of the Mad King and Jon the role of Rhaegar who apparently intended to usurp his father but was killed before he was able.
But I’ll weep bitterly if that happens.
I don’t see things ending well for Dany (do they for anyone?) but her allegiance to a higher moral ground will always be part of her legacy. Used to hate her, now I’m on her side.
Hi, my name is Ayre, and I f**king love Game of Thrones.
I went in that way too… and as soon as they mentioned Robert having had a thing with Ned’s sister, I fell on that conclusion and have stuck with it.
I went in that way too but as I’m the last to pick up on subtlety, I had to have someone spell out the R+L=J theory. But of course now it makes perfect sense.
Dammit, I haven’t had a clue! I watched the series and just started to read the first book and I totally thought he’s Ned’s son. How horrible that Catelyn always thought there’s another woman and hated Jon so much…
As if Jon snow isn’t rob baratheons son? “The seed is strong.”
Spoiler
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If Cat can come back as a zombie, maybe Ned can too???
Nah, one does not simply come back as Ned Stark (he’s already been interred). But I like the way you think!
I see what you did there, mimif…
and I applaud you.
Maybe Melisandre can work some magic or something. Ned could come back as a ghost like Headless Nick in the Harry Potter series.
I bet there is already a fan fiction depicting this exact scenario.
@Mimif
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Ned’s head isn’t even attached to his body for crying out loud!
“You know nothing, Jon Snow” suddenly has new meaning.
He’s out of the boot!
LOL
ROFL! That’s why he is “SO excited with the idea of coming back to GoT even if it’s just for a cameo/flashback/dream-sequence or something.”
He’s practically “purlease, anything anytime, just take me!!! Or I’ll have to go back into the boot!”
at last he’s freeeee! run Sean, run like the wind
I don’t know much about Bean outside of his acting, which I love. I guess he is not a nice person IRL?!
I had no clue he wasn’t a nice person either!
It’s a bit complicated. He’s a pretty severe alcoholic when not working and has been picked up several times by the police, both in public and domestic situations (to be fair, he’s never been convicted of anything as far as I know). Yet he’s very well liked and two of his ex-wives speak kindly of him. I think deeply troubled guy is probably more accurate than “bad” guy.
Thanks for the info. I agree. He sounds more troubled than bad.
He has alcohol issues. There was a story awhile back that he got stabbed in a bar fight sticking up for his date. Instead of going to hospital, he just used the first aid kit behind the bar and hung out some more. I kind of love that story.
Kaiser, why the mix feelings toward Sean? I’m curious
Major spoilers: he’ll die again?
No – Bran is now connected to all of the heart trees in Westeros, which can see into the past. Ned could be shown in flashbacks which Bran would access, and he would learn the true parentage of his supposed half brother.
i am assuming @Adrien is making a joke about Sean Bean dying in every role he plays rather than proper GoT commentary?
@lak – probably – but others are positing theories about Melisandre using magic to bring him back, or ned returning as a zombie – not necessary because of Bran and the heart trees. We would simply be watching events from the past.
Yeah I hope this gets confirmed soon because unless they throw a MAJOR curveball, this will surprise no one. Ned’s friend who survived the battle (whose name I can never remember) is still out there alive (I think?) and could tell, but I don’t think we’ve even met the guy on the show. I kind of like the idea of Bran finding out and telling Jon (more emotional).
Howland Reed. I wonder if he ever mentioned anything to Jojen and Meera and if they would know?
Thank you! Yes Howland Reed’s appearance (whenever it happens) should mean truth comes out. I can’t see it being some random.
The only other options probably are Bran, or I suppose the Red Witch, since it looks like Stannis and Jon will be hanging out a bit? That could be trouble.
I think the timing/nature of the reveal will be a bigger surprise than the reveal itself.
Bean’s right, it’s a terrific idea, and would mesh beautifully with Bran’s storyline, now that’s he’s connected to all the heart trees in Westeros, and can access the past, present, and future. Jon Snow is THE pivotal character on GoT – not Daenerys, not Tyrion, not Cersei. Everything that’s happening now will coalesce in the big reveal of who he really is, and his destiny. Allowing the good, honourable man who raised him to have a part in revealing that destiny would be fantastic.
I believe that Jon is the incarnation of the Song of Ice and Fire in the flesh, being the product of Lyanna (ice) and Rhaegar (fire). And it’s said that Rhaegar loved to sing songs, so the title is even more fitting. Ned by all accounts was an honorable and loyal man so it wasn’t in his nature to not only father a child with another woman, but then bring the bastard home with him to raise in the same house with his jilted wife. He loved his sister Lyanna very much and he made a promise that haunted him until the very end. Knowing that Robert Baratheon hated everything Targaryan to the point where he would order the deaths of their children. I would imagine the child of the man who Robert believed “raped” (from Roberts POV anyway) his true love, would not be exempt from his wrath. Ned and Lyanna both knew this and that’s why the secret had to be kept. I like this theory.
I just hope GRRM doesn’t go changing things around, since I’ve read he doesn’t like when readers think they have his story figured out.
It has been said that both show runners guessed who Jon’s parents were & GRRM said they got it right. Plus, they know where GRRM is going w/the story of the books so they can keep the show on track because lets face it, the show is going to surpass the books.
For some reason, early on during season 1 I kept thinking that Robert was Jon’s father but this was before I started to read the books & pay more attention to the show.
Yeah I figured it out from the show even before I started reading the books in S1 when Ned always refused to use the term “son” or even “bastard” for Jon and always referred to him as his “blood” and the whole secrecy of who his mother was.
Also I find it telling that on the show when Dany has a vision of the Iron Throne she sees it snowing in the palace and the throne covered in snow. I thought that was some kind of foreshadowing.
Whatwhat – yeah, I remember her vision early on in the show with it snowing on the iron throne, and I wondered at the time what that was supposed to mean, as it didn’t really relate to anything going on in the storyline at the time. Yep, that is complete foreshadowing.
Yes to the snow on the throne. But I also took that to mean maybe her and Jon would end up together.
GRRM may be the first author to have his remaining books turned into a TV series before they are even published. I don’t think the man could not write faster if his life depended on it.
I think he is somewhat lazy to be honest. I could be wrong seeing how I don’t know how long he went between the other books being published but I can’t help think maybe he is milking this for all that it is worth. I know he also writes for the show but I think he should just leave the show writing to the show runners & just spit out the books already.
I love how excited he is! Ned and Arya are my faves so I was gutted when he was killed. Bring him back!
Awww, I miss Ned Stark. I would love to see him in a flashback episode. It would get major ratings, too, because Ned is a fan favourite and I think HBO is well aware of that. I hope HBO doesn’t get mad at him for the spoiler reveal. I think he just got so excited he blurted it out.
Wow, that’s fascinating. Am I am thick because I didn’t think of it. But, is there anyone else who has read all of the books who is wondering how this will come to anything considering…
I’m afraid to say it, even though there are spoilers included in the thread.
Are you referring to his arc in A Dance With Dragons?
I’m still skeptical about how Martin wrote that (I’m trying to be as vague as possible here!)
Plus, they might deviate from the books completely and maybe bring forward any possible reveal. I think I read somewhere that the series is a companion piece/not a direct adaptation of the books, partly due to the sheer volume of the novels, budget, and I’m guessing growing child actors also.
(series 4 spoiler–)
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Like that epic slugfest between Brienne and the Hound. I thought the finale was so much better with that addition.
I am skeptical too. It’s unlike GRRM to be so concrete in his writing, and there is no other way to interpret who returned to Westros with Connington. (there, I hope that gets my point across without spoilers)
Unless Connington’s little pal isn’t all that he seems to be.
There’s so many theories! I love this, it’s so much fun. Can’t wait til The Winds of Winter is released.
Thank you for posting – love GOT secrets. Also that the narrator to that video has a sexy voice was a nice bonus.
Not sure Jon has the right color hair. None-the-less, no doubt George RR Martin is reading all the fan fare and thinking up so new twist that none have contemplated. He’s funny like that.
Book Jon Snow has been mentioned many, many times as looking Stark as all get out. (Arya is the other Stark that looks Stark, the other kids all look like Catelyn’s side of the family. It’s worth noting that they seem to have cast with that in mind.)
And it’s mentioned many times (in the books) that Arya takes after Lyanna. I cannot recall whether that is mentioned in the series, probably because I’m too busy waiting for someone else to die.
precisely. never once is it made any less clear that jon snow and arya are the only two children of ned stark who look like ned stark. mimif: i don’t recall that detail. i only recall the books ever saying how arya looks like her dad, and rather horsey at that. lyanna was supposedly a raving beauty…
@Kaiser – great video. Thanks for posting!
This is why I really hate they made the series before the books were completed. It just muddies the waters.
I had to stop watching the series.
After watching that video I really want to give Jon Snow a hug and a cuddle because he really knows nothing!!!
The dragon has three heads, as Aemon Targaryen keeps saying. Aemon is too old to y about on a conquering dragon. There are 3 dragons and the riders must be Targaryens. Right now, Dany and Aemon, who is ancient, are the only known Targaryens on the show.
Isn’t a certain baby still alive? And doesn’t a certain character discover said baby?
I hope someone understands what I’m saying. I’m only in the beginning of book four but I had someone tell that part of the story line.
I gotcha loud and clear! 😀
YAY!
Oh you mean the great switcheroo orchestrated by a certain individual who hears the whispers of his avian friends?
Lol nice one.
Also: what is hiding in/beneath the Wall? It’s been suggested that the Wall was not merely created as a barrier, but that it actually is hiding and/or containing something. Oh jeez, here I go again…
@M.A.F –
Holy sh-t, I had a whole other post asking what the F*** you were talking about but I think I just figured it out. WOW.
If I’m figuring out what you are saying correctly…. WOW! I didn’t even consider that.
Also, if something is underneath the wall, that’s a whole new level of awesome.
Ah, what’s hidden in the wall?! That I don’t know of. Wait, does it breath…fire?!
A coworker of mine would give me little hints here and there and that was one of them (the baby).
Yes, but they haven’t reached that on the show yet and that would still only be two. Another Targaryen, although not identified as such, showed up in the season finale but he is even older than Aemon.
@Lilac-did another one show up? I might have to go back & re-watch it.
BTW- MAF, I meant the baby that may still be alive… But now I’m intrigued about whatever it is you’re talking about beneath the wall… I gotta start reading the books.
@Kate2-I understood what you wrote. The baby whose last name starts w/a T? Yes, that baby.
GoT fans are freaking amazing. This is an amazing thesis.
Oh dear god! My scientific soul has died a little on the inside. Before we go any further can we please correct the inappropriate usage of the word theory? A theory is a well proven explanation, the closest thing to fact. This a a hypothesis. This misunderstanding of what theory is is one of the ways people try to dismiss the “theory of evolution” as though it were just a hypothesis.
More dragons!
There’s always that one person trying to take the fun out of everything, is my theory :D.
Theory is also a conclusion arrived at by abstract thought and contemplation. Theory has not been misused.
Jon Snow’s parentage is pretty obvious from reading Ned’s pov chapters in the 1st book, although that’s barely mentioned in the series.
Eehhhh I don’t know about Jon Snow being a Targaryen or Lyanna’s son. I will say that so far the books have not revealed him being a Targaryen in any way and the way the books are going (with no spoilers), there’s no need for him to be a Targaryen. There’s enough Targaryen plot in the books as it is. In the first book (for those of you who have read it), there are several references to Arya looking more like her dad Ned than her mother Catelyn. And that Arya strongly resembles Jon (who in turns resembles Ned) and they both feel like outsiders in the family so they have a special bond. So to me that suggests that the Starks and Snow ARE half-siblings. I think Jon Snow is Ned’s son but I can’t remember what the books imply about his mysterious mother. Ned is such a slave to duty and honor, I don’t think he would raise a kid that he knew wasn’t his and torture Catelyn for years with the thought that he falsely cheated on her while he was at war.
Amy, go back and look at the Ned chapters in the 1st book (he has flashbacks about Lyanna’s death), honestly I thought it was obvious, the video explains it.
Its amazing how no one ,not even the Starks remember poor Rickon anymore! lol
Who’s Rickon?
LOL. I completely forgot about him this whole season. Is he even the rest of the books?
Poor Rickon. Poor ShaggyDog.
I think Jon Snow’s father is…..
George Costanza. Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
Festivus will be pretty awesome next year. 🙂
Awww, Sean is so puppy-excited I want to scratch him behind the ears 😛
Now, I’ve been wanting to discuss season 4 here. It somehow felt (unexpectedly) flatter than previous seasons to me, I think it was mostly due to the fact that I didn’t find some of character and plot developments particularly exciting. Am I the only one who thinks so? It might be due to the fact that it only covered half of book 4, of course, but I still was sorry that I didn’t enjoy it as much as I did previous seasons.