Have you been watching Joshua Jackson’s new Showtime series, The Affair? I have not, but I intend to check it out at some point. I still haven’t had time to catch up on the new season of Homeland (but I hear there’s a lot of Rupert Friend so YAY!). Joshua isn’t even the lead of The Affair – he’s part of a small ensemble which includes Ruth Wilson, Dominic West and Maura Tierney. Anyway, Joshua is still doing some promotion for the show and he gave an interesting interview to Glamour. Some highlights:
Making a show about messy relationships: “Our show tries to portray the messiness of life—sometimes you make bad choices and don’t get to walk around with your head held high. But having seasoned actors helps. Our industry tends to cast 23-year-olds, but in this show everybody’s got a couple of wrinkles, a little bit of life under their belts. We’ve all had to recover from heartbreak.”
Whether he still gets recognized for Mighty Ducks & Dawson’s Creek: “If I’m somewhere cold, Mighty Ducks. Anywhere else, Dawson’s. I’m now at an age where my friends’ kids like Dawson’s…but they like it ironically.”
Why he and Diane Kruger aren’t married: “I can tell you why we’re not married: We’re not religious. I don’t feel any more or less committed to Diane for not having stood in front of a priest and had a giant party. We’re both children of divorce, so it’s hard for me to take marriage at face value as the thing that shows you’ve grown up and are committed to another person. But it may change at some point. We may get married.”
What Diane taught him about fashion: “That if you want to be respected as a grown-up, you have to dress like one.”
Diane threw out his part of shoe collection: “I used to have a collection of Adidas sneakers, but one day all the obnoxiously colored ones disappeared. She still claims I must have lost them ‘somewhere.’”
That’s so harsh that Diane threw out some of Joshua’s shoe collection. From what I gather, their couple-dynamic is that he’s very loose and easy-going and she’s the hyper-organized control freak who keeps him in line and on time. I think if Diane wanted to get married, they would get married. Joshua will just go along with whatever she wants and right now, she doesn’t care about marriage. But I think the religious argument is interesting, although… the institution of marriage evolves. It’s evolving right now, as we speak. It’s not just about religion, and in some cases, it has nothing to do with religion. So, I kind of think Joshua’s answer was a cop-out. He just doesn’t want to say “We’ll get married when Diane says we should get married.”
Photos courtesy of WENN, Fame/Flynet.
Interesting. Even though I got married in a church, I’ve never thought of marriage as a religious merger. A spiritual one, yes.
That’s a good way to put it. I’m religious, and we were married by a minister, but that’s not why I got married. I also think of it as a spiritual union, rather than a religious one. And plenty of people who aren’t religious at all get married because they want to officially commit to another person with a legal ceremony. So his logic doesn’t work for me, but whatever makes them happy.
Being married in a church is a religious thing. Just the fact that many pastors require one to be a member of their church or at least baptized to be married there, you know?
But I would never ever get married in a church. If I had a ceremony, it would definitely be outdoors somewhere, preferably on the beach in the small town where I grew up.
True. We were married outside, by the beach on Nantucket. But a minister officiated, so you’re right, there was certainly a religious aspect, and we wanted that. I guess I meant that I didn’t really marry for religious reasons. I wanted to celebrate and cement our love and spiritual union with a joyful ceremony, and I wanted to be married to him. That means something to me that I guess it doesn’t to some people. I would have married him even if I didn’t have a religion. Not judging people who don’t feel the same way at all. But it was important to us.
I’m a (struggling) Christian, and I’ve always wanted to get married outside, which is what I did. A pastor married us, but not in a church. I don’t think being married inside church walls gives a marriage any more validity spiritually than getting married outside of a church.
You got married on a beach in Nantucket?
Amazing.
“I wanted to celebrate and cement our love and spiritual union with a joyful ceremony, and I wanted to be married to him.”
I completely understand this. I bet your wedding ceremony was gorgeous, GNAT.
I got married (actually handfasted) in a little wooded area in Lake George, NY by someone from the Universal Life Church and our vows were this:
I Brenna Máire, in the name of the spirit that resides within us all, by the life that courses within my blood, and the love that resides within my heart, take you, James Paul to my hand, my heart, and my spirit to be my chosen one. To desire and be desired by you, to possess you, and be possessed by you, without sin or shame, for nothing can exist in the purity of my love for you. I promise to love you wholly and completely without restraint, in sickness and in health, in plenty and in poverty, in life and beyond, where we shall meet, remember, and love again. I shall not seek to change you in any way. I shall respect you, your beliefs, your family, and your ways as I respect myself.
It was nice and it was simple. We had a very small party after that, then a bigger party in the Bahamas a few weeks later.
My husband and I got married in a yard and we did a combo of the traditional Irish and Scottish vows, because they’re awesome:
I vow you the first cut of my meat, the first sip of my wine,
from this day it shall only your name I cry out in the night
and into your eyes that I smile each morning;
You cannot possess me for I belong to myself
But while we both wish it, I give you that which is mine to give
You cannon command me, for I am a free person
But I shall serve you in those ways you require
and the honeycomb will taste sweeter coming from my hand.
I shall be a shield for you back as you are for mine,
no shall a grievous word be spoken about us,
for our marriage is sacred between us and no stranger shall hear my grievance.
Above and beyond this, I will cherish and honor you through this life
and into the next.
That was the whole ceremony, and then there was a buffet and a party on the beach!
They ARE awesome!! Do you both say them to each other?
Wow, that gave me chills. Beautiful.
I love those vows. You had my dream wedding! I’ve always wanted a quick ceremony and a casual party on the beach.
I love it!!
Mykar, those are great vows!
Love them!!
Those are honestly the best vows I have ever heard! We would all have incredible marriages if we did those things.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh lovely! Can I borrow them? After all these years of being single and not really wanting to marry, I have a partner that I indeed want to commit to and yes, marry because we are terrific together!
Those are remarkably gorgeous vows. And not sappy. 🙂
Wow. Those wedding vows are beautiful and gave me such a warm rush. Your ceremony sounds like it was a simple, heartfelt affair. Kudos.
I like that you blended traditional Irish and Scottish vows to make something more personal. How beautiful.
Awwww
so beautiful.. so many lines I would say if I ever got married.
We can learn so much from other cultures and traditions.
Now I’m all misty..
I think marriage can be a lot of different things. I’ve always thought it was a social contract and property contract wrapped up in a religious cloak. On a personal level though, getting married for me was about publicly making a promise to my husband that I was committed to him for the rest of my life. That had nothing to do with religion. But to each their own.
What I read in his answer is that he has issues with marriage from his childhood. “We’re both children of divorce.” I think his not getting married has way more to do with that than religion.
I think that’s an aspect a lot of people are overlooking. Marriage can be a religious/spiritual union for many people, but at the base of it, it’s a legal contract. And there are many benefits afforded to married couple, not afforded to non-married partners. The biggest concern for me if I were them would be estate taxes.
I’m getting married in December and it has nothing to do with religion. Neither my fiancee or I are religious at all. We are marrying ourselves in the courthouse where we live now (it’s super easy – we will have no witnesses, you don’t need them here) and then having an official ceremony with our family in our hometown the day after Christmas to celebrate with 30 of our family/close friends. That is going to be kind of old school – I have the pretty dress, we’re standing up and saying vows, and we will have dinner/drinks afterwards. I haven’t even thought of vows yet! I mean, to us, just the act of getting married kind of says it all. We’re merging our lives, promising to be there for each other, ect. So our friend is just going to stand up and ‘officiate’ for us and I suppose I need to think of what he’s gonna say!
Anyway, coming from a very non-religious person who is still getting married – yeah, I don’t agree with him at all. For us religion has nothing to do with this. We just want to fully commit to each other and legally merge our lives.
People liking Dawson’s creek ironically makes me feel old. Thanks, Joshua.
Hahah ditto
I’m all agog: who is this divine man?
His reason for not getting married is the same as mine. We’re not religious. Been with my boyfriend for 16 years and we’ve never felt the need to make it more ‘legal’ than 2 kids and a mortgage. We’ve talked about it from a ‘let’s celebrate our relationship’ point of view; but every time we think about planning a party, we end up deciding that the money would be better spent elsewhere. Like on a holiday. Or more vodka.
That’s funny. Wedding or vodka? Vodka!
Or your wedding can be a holiday with vodka! I don’t post here that often, but have on and off for several years…anyway, I was married on a beach in hawaii, and I highly recommend that. Honeymoon and party all in one. Sunset, rainbow, dolphins…leis for everyone and champagne, too. Barefoot. Then we treated our very small group of guests (under 15 people) to a great dinner. Our invites included two options: wedding in hawaii or reception stateside 6 weeks later. Or both. We included those tree plantings with the invites, so the wedding favors were built in. ha ha. Most came to the reception, catered and with a dj, held in a relative’s yard. Worked out great for us, and looking back, I wouldn’t have minded eloping either. Whatever works for each person/couple of course. But yea, beach ceremonies are where it’s at! (: You can have a minister or just an officiant. Easy peasy.
And I believe our entire thing-both events plus our honeymoon came to around 5k, maybe a little more. 7k tops.
+1. I’m not religious, I’m not ‘spiritual’ person, I don’t care about ceremony. And we know better ways to spend our money (+wasting my precious free from work time to wedding preparations? hell no!)
but I really hate weddings, even as a guest. My partner is more ‘I love you, I feel married, whatever you want’.
“I’m not religious, I’m not ‘spiritual’ person, I don’t care about ceremony. And we know better ways to spend our money”
*furiously nodding head*
Yep, that’s me. I do enjoy going to other people’s weddings though. They’re fun.
Im kinda in the same boat as you Magda Very practical, not religious or spiritual or traditional, Got married very young first time and hated everything prep about it, ended up eloping and being alone for years…now I met this dude and he is SUPER pollyanna and shit so he is ALWAYS talking about what kind of wedding we could have …we also went to one of my gfs wedding this summer and he just about fainted with delight I am dreading anything past an elopement or a destination all inclusive deal…outside of commitment and honesty all I care for in a wedding is a certain level of taste with music and the booze to be flowing
@QQ
I just want you to know that I laughed throughout your entire comment. I feel your pain. I like going to weddings (because FREE FOOD! unless it’s shitty food), but I would not want to plan one or anything. I’d rather elope. Or go down to the courthouse.
But if you do get married, I will be stalking your instagram for some boozy pics.
I am in the same boat, CM and Magda. My bf and I have been together for over 15 years. We both grew up in neighborhoods where being married didn’t translate into people treating each other well, so that lead to us asking WHY do it at all? We aren’t religious and don’t plan on having kids. I have so many friends who got married and the planning process was so stressful on them for the entire year in advance. Some got yelled at by family members for silly things like the phrasing of the invitation. Some had ceremonies they couldn’t afford. Planning a wedding just seems like a huge pain in the ass, honestly.
I DO think that there are things marriage is very important for in regards to estate planning. There are some rights that married couples have that cannot be translated over to another individual without the legal distinction of marriage. At some point, I might decide to participate in these benefits.
We got married pretty young, but had been together for a couple of years. Got married because my husband was on the waiting list for a liver transplant and it’s handy to be married in case of medical emergencies. Planned it in an afternoon, cost us about 500 bucks. My mom made my dress, his mom was the officiant at the civil ceremony. Now, we’re in that stage of our lives where everyone gets married and when I see the hassle and trouble I’m so happy we already did it. But then again, I never would have been the type for a big wedding.
Virgilia WAIT!!: why he has Requested REPEATEDLY star wars sh-t AND 80s Music…. He is awful 😖😖😖😖
@Tiffany:)
That’s exactly why my mom waited until she was in her early thirties to get married. She never had a good example of marriage, so she never saw the point.
My family was very loving, but there were so many of my neighbors (whose children I played with) where I would go over to their house and they would be SCREAMING at each other. At one friend’s house, my sister and I got trapped in her bedroom for an hour and a half while the family had a raging argument in the living room, blocking our access to doors.
It became clear to me that marriage didn’t guarantee that people would treat each other well, despite the fact that they vowed to do so. In fact, it seemed some of the spouses were completely unhappy and felt trapped. I think I was always afraid of being stuck like that.
@QQ
You can both dress up as Ewoks…….or pull a Liz Lemon, with your only white dress.
No one has to have a party to get married OR be in a church or married by a minister. Court house?
Yes! I understand this completely. After 12 years together I still can’t justify spending thousands of dollars on a party. and since we’re not religious the ceremony holds no value to us. We have made a committment to each other between ourselves and that’s all that’s important to me. Bring on the vodka!
Cheers! *clinks glass*
My husband and I got married at a local bar/music venue where we had partied many times over. We wanted to thank our friends and family for supporting us and loving us so we made sure that the bar was open and there was plenty of pizza for all! We are still complimented all the time for having the best wedding ever! Super fun and super cheap 🙂
But Diane Kruger did marry before, so was she religious then? I don’t buy their decision is because of religion. I get the vibe that if Diane wanted to marry, they would.
I guess she was simply young then. Love the Vodka comment above. :))))
More Vodka! Could not have said it better myself. 😀
He’s my forever dong. Love love love him. Can’t believe she threw his sneakers out, that’s cold! Come live with me Josh….. you can have all the rainbow Adidas your heart desires.
Nooooo! He’s MY forever dong!
How are you, Brown? 🙂
Eh, been better… tore some ligaments in my foot playing soccer (apparently I’m “too old” to be doing things like that anymore) but I’m doing much better now that I got to look at my husband’s face first thing in the morning…. 🙂 Been lurking more lately than commenting but still visit every day!
Did you get married since I last “talked” to you?
I should lurk more and comment less, but I can never seem to refrain…
Ha! Negative on the marriage. Not even on the horizon as of right now. It’s funny…. my reason for waiting seems to be the same reason everyone thinks it’s time for me to get married. “I’m only 25!” vs “…but you’re already 25!” Gotta love living in South Carolina.
Oh I’m an idiot, you meant MY husband Josh. We can share him, Brown, no problem.
Jaysus, I’m 35 and not married. You have plenty of time, Brown, don’t listen to those fools. It took me until 35 to find someone that I would even want to live with, much less marry, so don’t rush things. But you already know that 🙂
It took me at least an entire scene to realize that was him in the show! Haven’t seen him in anything in ages.
I know many nonreligious people who have gotten married, but to each their own. They’ve been together a long time and seem happy so it’s obviously working for them.
A marriage is a civil contract more than anything else. You don’t have to marry in church, does he realize that? In fact, Diane is German, here you can’t have a church wedding without a civil ceremony first. Church is optional.
I’m sure he does realise that! I think his point is: why get married if you’re not religious? What’s it going to add to his (committed, loving) relationship?
Well, they’re rich movie stars so they have the financial luxury of not needing the benefits that many of us commoners get from being married.
Here’s a list for ya: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
That being said, I really do see his point and in the end, it’s a personal decision. He and Diane seem like the real deal to me. Love them.
I am also a commoner (no, really!) and not a US citizen, so your list means little to me. We looked into the benefits and took the matter particularly seriously when we had kids (we were concerned about my boyfriend’s rights over them) but nothing we found warranted taking the plunge. Now, I almost feel like it’s a stand against archaic, patriarchal legislation that needs to be updated. Well, that and the fact that I’m far too lazy/tight to get married.
As I said, CM, it’s a personal choice. I think it’s cool when people do their own thing and don’t cave to societal pressure and I also think it’s great when people want to celebrate their union with friends and family. It’s all good either way IMO.
I know, Kitten. Me too. My post was really to point out that the list applies to the US only. And also – no, nevermind. I think I should shut up for the day!
On a plane a very elderly woman told me that my boyfriend and I would be “ostracized from society” back in her time because we aren’t married and have been together so long. Isn’t that precious?
Maybe it’s different in the US, but in Germany a lot of advantages come with being married. You can get your incomes taxed together and save alot of money, you inherit by default when there is no will, you can inherit larger sums tax-free, you have the right to make certain medical decisions if your spouse is not in a position to do so, in fact as an unmarried partner you might not get information in a hospital (especially if there are other family member who don’t want you there). Of course you could set up contracts to cover all these (except for the tax parts) things, but that will require legal counsel, which also costs money. A marriage license is pretty cheap compared 😉
Same in many other countries. My partner of 14 years and I could have a non-religious ceremony, but the point is neither of us is religious, neither of us sees the benefit of a ceremony for the sake of it. The only reason we might consider it is to make our parents happy that we celebrate it somehow, but not because of getting married per se.
Not strong enough reasons for me, so not happening any time soon.
I have been very happily married for 18 years, and one of my core philosophies is to never throw something of his away without his approval. He’s not my child. I know JJ was joking, and I sort of am, too, and everybody’s different, but I really don’t get women who do that. If he likes it and wants it, who am I to dispose of it behind his back?
I don’t normally but when Mr Lindy refused to throw out a pair of jeans that the zipper had broken and he was using a pin to hold together I’d had enough.
The fact they were horrible ill fitting jeans was a bonus, I’m not going to lie
Lol. We all have our limits. We don’t want to have to bail him out of jail for indecent exposure.
My SIL made a Yosemite Sam figurine for my husband as a gift, because she’s a pyscho, and I did stick it in a closet, but I asked first.
LOL! That’s hilarious, Lindy.
@GNAT-I think that’s completely justifiable, and I do agree about throwing out a spouse’s stuff without asking first. I find that so disrespectful.
ITA. A guy I worked with got married to a woman who was unhappy with his style. He said she threw away his favorite baseball hats from college and other stuff that I thought made him uniquely him. One day he showed up with braces to correct a gap in his teeth (and he was nearly 50 so this was clearly not anything he cared about) and I thought it was a sure sign that their marriage was doomed. They are still together almost 20 years later though.
Yeah, I don’t get it. I would be livid if someone did that to me.
Umm, I MAY be guilty of this a few times…there have been a couple shirts and hats from college days that the husband was insisting on wearing despite the holes etc…trying to re-live his glory days I think. I didn’t throw them away…but I might have just buried them deep down in some boxes that hopefully will never be found… 😉
Lol, one can hope!
My bf of over 15 years scolded me for the opposite recently! He was looking at old pictures and was like “WHY didn’t you tell me that haircut/shirt looked horrible on me?!?!” I told him that I never thought he looked awful, and while there are looks I have liked more than others, I don’t want to boss him around and dictate what he should wear. Maybe I could be a bit more helpful, though. Guys’ fashion kind of confuses me though.
I think you’re doing great just being honest. He’s lucky to have you! I mean that, you are so sweet and positive.
Aw, GoodNames, thank you! That gave me all kinds of warm fuzzies, as I respect your opinion very much. Hugs!
Well, marriage is still heavily associated with religion and being in a church. But Diane has been married before, so she’s probably jaded by it. Also, when you’re independent making your own money, it does make things complicated to get married, get pre-nups, etc.
Ha! I love his comments. In this country marriage is largely religious. Also, my Irish mother doesn’t consider anyone truly married unless by a priest. (Court house marriage= living in sin. LOL)
I actually think he used to marriage question to just throw shade on the ridiculousness of people against gay marriage rights because of the religious definition of marriage, etc.
Diane is smart, I need to pickup her nonconfrontational approach. I would be debating about the annoying clothing item. Instead, she’s just like, “Sneakers? What sneakers??” 😀
When my boyfriends younger brother was around 13 he asked us, “What does living in sin mean? Because Grandma said you and Tiffany are living in sin.”
I couldn’t stop laughing!
My husband’s mother had him later in life (she’s actually older than each of my grandmothers by 1+ years), so I get there is a generational intolerance to not being married right away. But one time, we were eating dinner and he and I were joking around and being playfully rude to each other, and I said something along the lines of “I don’t care that you don’t seem to want to marry me, I don’t believe in marriage, anyway.” His mother turned six shades of red, banged her fists on the table, and exclaimed “Well I don’t want any bastard grandchildren running around!!” That happened one other time before I told her it’s not up to her. This woman. When she referred her niece’s children as “my little half-breeds,” I really went off on her. Her response was that a friend of hers has half Italian grandkids that she calls “her little whops,” and she didn’t see why one was worse than the other. I doubt we’ll have children, but if we do, I’m so glad we no longer live near her, because that means minimal time with crazy grandma.
She also used to go on about why couldn’t we get married in a church. Without coming out and telling her “because we are atheists,” I’d always say because I don’t go to church, and I find it hypocritical to make a show of a church wedding if you aren’t a churchgoer. When she found out we were actually married by a minister, she seemed tickled. Husband didn’t have it in him to say the guy was ordained online and is also an atheist, himself. Probably for the best, crazy bat probably would have hopped a hole in the floor.
You dont have to be religious to be married. And they could always get a judge to marry them. Doesnt have to be a priest. Marriage is also good for legal issues. Like power of attorney and stuff like that.
We got married in a church but even our priest was like “you know marriage is also majorly about the legal side”. He mentioned a lot of issues that could arise if something was to happen to one of us, the other would have very little say as they would not be legally our spouse, It was really interesting.
So yes, its not a religious thing, if it was why would gay couples be fighting for the right to get legally married??
They could still make each other the POA for them without being married. I was POA for my mother. But as Lindy79 says, your partner has very little to say if something happens. My daughter’s fiance passed away last December and she was fortunate enough that his family allowed her to have a say in all the funeral arrangements. On the other hand (and this probably is not a worry for Joshua and Diane), she also is not responsible for any of the debt he may have accrued. That being said, it is their choice not to get married and is nobody’s business but theirs. Sighting religious reasons for not getting married is a cop out.
That was the exact example he gave us swack, that if we were to walk out the door after that meeting, and I say was to get hit by a car, Mr Lindy would have no say in my medical treatment, my parents could order him out of the hospital and even have a say on things like turning off the machine/keep me alive knowing its not what I would have wanted, if it came to that. He would have no legal right or say.
Granted it turned into a bit of a joke between us “I’ll turn you off!”
But yes, marriage is not the be all and end all, but just don’t use religion as the reason.
@Lindy79, exactly. Had my daughter’s fiance been put on life support, he would probably still be on it. His aunt, who became his guardian when his mother died when he was 8, would never have turned off the life support. As it was she wanted to delay the funeral as long as possible because she was in denial and thought he would still come back. Luckily her daughter had the cooler head and helped in getting the funeral done as quickly as possible. As for me, I have a living will so that my daughters never have to make that decision (I’m divorced – so much for a religious marriage holding up).
Your poor daughter having to go through that, but I’m glad that it went in as positive a way as it could under the circumstances x
The living will is another example of how important legal side of things is, especially when there are children involved.
I’m sorry that’s BS
Marriage is primarily a legal agreement, not a religious one.
Which is why low key court house registries are so popular
So now marriage is only for the religious huh?
What about all the liberals and atheists who are married?
This is a really lame explanation by him for not being married.
Try again Josh.
“I can tell you why we’re not married: We’re not religious. I don’t feel any more or less committed to Diane for not having stood in front of a priest and had a giant party. We’re both children of divorce, so it’s hard for me to take marriage at face value as the thing that shows you’ve grown up and are committed to another person. But it may change at some point. We may get married.”
So no, it’s not *just* about them not being religious. Some people are capable of commitment without a legally binding document. Plus, he made it clear that neither of them have a very high opinion about the institution of marriage, when both their parents’ marriages ended in divorce. It’s just a different philosophy, and a personal decision at that, not a “lame explanation” in the least.
Yes, exactly.
OK, I know I’m getting WAY too bothered by these comments because I’m putting my personal situation into this… but I have to say it again: I think you’re missing his point. They have chosen not to get married – for now – because they are not religious and that’s HIS reason why marriage doesn’t mean anything to them. He’s not saying that marriage is only for the religious. There are lots of reasons for getting married – religion is one of them. A big one. Therefore, NOT being religious is a legitimate reason for not getting married, no?
No idea if that makes any sense, but I feel the need to argue this point today. I ask again: what exactly would marriage bring to his relationship that he doesn’t have already?
*takes a breath* And relaaaax.
I love them. By far my favourite Hollywood couple.
Yeah, they seem really sweet together and refreshingly low key.
My husband and I are staunch atheists. We wouldn’t be married at all were it not the for the increased pay and benefits that come with being married.
And yes, the institution of marriage IS changing, (for the better), but to me it’s still somewhat of a farce.
Daaaang Joshua sure grew up a bit! He’s a handsome man, hello! I also think it’s crappy she threw out his shoes, the entire collection? That’s just mean, let the man wear what he wants.
I was with my partner during 9 years without to be married and when i was pregnant of almost 8 months,my hubby wanted we ‘re married (” we and the future baby against the world”) It was a tiny civil wedding (10 persons) and he organized the “event”
Being a Christian woman I never really understand why non religious/atheist people decide to get married when it’s a religious ceremony or event. If you’re not religious why do you believe in marriage?
Actually, Christians don’t own marriage (surprise!) and atheists and non-religious people are entitled to the same employment benefits, medical benefits, government benefits, and tax benefits that Christians and other religious people get from being married.
If it makes you feel any better, as an atheist if I ever get married, it won’t be a religious ceremony at all. No church, no priest, no religious anything whatsoever.
Sorry but marriage is a religious ceremony doesn’t matter if it’s in a church or on the beach. But of course people think if it’s not in a church doesn’t make it religious. Just like how non religious people want to celebrate Christmas but knows it’s a religious holiday, what’s the point of doing religious holidays or ceremonies when you don’t actually believe in them.
@tmh-You are SO incredibly wrong and I suggest you research the origin of marriage. It’s an ancient institution that predates recorded history and early on, it was seen as a strategic alliance between families via contractual agreement.
Originally marriage had NOTHING to do with God, it was just a way to extend and empower a family.
Sorry to bring the facts but nope, marriage is not a religious ceremony unless one wants it to be.
And you’re also wrong about Christmas. It was originally a Scandinavian pagan festival but of course, Christians had to take ahold of that and make it about Jesus in order to “sell” Christianity to the public.
If you’re going to have a strong opinion, at least back it up with facts, don’t just blindly accept everything that your Church tells you.
tmh, just curious, what do you think about the millions of couples who get married by a judge, in a courthouse, or by people ordained civilly to perform marriage ceremonies? How in any way are those “religious?” And don’t even get me started on Christmas, the most grotesquely commercialized religious holiday that isn’t even religious in origin. Sigh.
@tmh – unless the ceremony is performed by a member of the clergy the ceremony is NOT religious.
tmh, there are two types of marriage, religious and legal. People can have “commitment ceremonies” that are religious in nature but not legally binding. The religious ceremony means nothing (except emotionally) if you do not register with the government and obtain a license.
The legal version of marriage is a contract that binds two estates. The paperwork is handled in the office of deeds. It effects taxes, benefits, medical authority and laws regarding property. You do not need to have a religion to get a marriage license.
@tmh,
Yeah. Marriage DEFINITELY didn’t exist before the concept of Christianity.
I’m not even going to apologize, you’re just wrong.
As kitten said, perhaps you should research the actual origin of marriage, which was an arranged merger between families for mutual benefit and security. Greeks married, Romans married, indigenous people’s married (and marry). People married for thousands or years before the concept of your jesus arose, and will continue to do so.
Marriage is MANY things, but it is certainly not Christian. Christians marry, but they did not invent marriage.
It is not religious at its core. That is the truth.
Sorry, but you can believe in marriage if you are not religious. Marriage is a commitment and doesn’t necessarily have to be done by a member of the clergy (no matter what religion).
I’m not religious and i’m married (now after many years of partnership ) in a civil ceremony ( “us against the world”) .We’re not religious and our parents are religious but of different religions
Facepalm.
My husband and I are as atheist as anyone can get and we’ve been married 10 years. You religious types don’t own marriage. For us it was a public declaration of our commitment, and an awesome reason to have a great party. Neither of us wanted to have children before we were married – our personal views. Also we like being able to say “husband” and “wife”.
I giggled like a 13-year-old when I read your name.
Rolling in the grass already, Kitten? 😉
Wow..ok
I was raised catholic and got married in a church but all that means is you’re married in the eyes of the church..if you don’t fill out the legal and civil paperwork than in terms of the law/revenue/state etc. you are a single person. They are two separate things.
Religion does not own “marriage”, it’s as much a legal thing (and more important in terms of people’s rights when it comes to their partner)
smh @ tmh
see what I did there 😉
Because marriage comes with serious legal benefits that have nothing to do with religion. In fact, they often are at odds with each other. My mother was a Druid when I was growing up. In her faith, most of the people she knew (she was not in America, but in Ireland) who shared the Druidic faith were NOT legally married. They would go and have a handfastening ceremony (where the officiant symbolically ties the couples’ hands together) and that was it. To them, that created a spiritual marriage that was more powerful and lasting then anything the government could create. I’m a Christian Scientist and even in my faith, while most couples do want a legal marriage for the benefits, the Church has always been clear that spiritual marriage is much more valued and preferrable to legal marriage (since legal marriage only matters in this world and CS tends to be more concerned with the “spiritual” metaphysical realm). They basically recognize that two forms of marriage exist, and some people want neither, both, or only one.
My point is that there are deeply religious people who have no desire in the least for a religious marriage. There are atheists who very much believe in the marriage idea. If you think otherwise, you just aren’t that varied in the kinds of religions and people you’ve come across.
Tmh, being a Christian woman, I blush at your incredibly uniformed and insensitive remark, and I have to ask – are you for real? You are historically, factually, emotionally, religiously and legally – wrong. Just wrong. And mean. You do know that people were married for centuries before Christ was born?
No, it’s actually two different things: Spiritual and/or religious is one thing, and a civil ceremony is a legally binding contract between two corporate entities-you and your partner. That is how you get things like tax breaks, benefits, right to make decisions for the other person’s behalf, etc. The legal, civil contract has nothing to do with the religious recognition by a church.
TMH – marriage is not a religious ceremony per se. It can be if you want to be married in your church by an officiant who is a minister or priest of your congregation. However, there are many non-denominational officiants who can marry people – the Secular Humanist organization, for example, trains officiants who have one year of training from them. The captain of a ship can marry people.
Eh! Civil.
All the man said was ThEY were not religious. It is their reason for not getting married. The emphasis on marriage is religious especially in my country, America, you cannot deny it.
He is Canadian and she is Geman, both are children of divorce maybe they’ve just chosen what’s best for them as a couple. It seems to be working.
I can understand: they are both rich, if they are not religious marriage becomes an economic translation, in this case they probably ended up getting a prenup just to remain the way they are now.
I am not married I am not religious, but at some point I think me and boyfriend we’ll do some economic deal just in case something bad happens to one of us, or stuff like that.
Marriage is a total religious event. It is founded in the Bible and the whole idea of marriage comes from the Bible. No doubt that many now do not consider it such, however it is the same as trying to pretend that Christmas is not a religious holiday. I agree with tmh. The problem is that the west wants the religious events (eg. Christmas, marriage, etc) but they want to pretend it has nothing to do with religion when in reality it is founded in religion.
Um…marriage also exists in non-Christian, non-Abrahamic religions.
“It is founded in the Bible”
Receipts please
Sorry, but no. Marriage initially existed as a way to ensure the transfer of property rights between people and families. It was a political and economic transaction. Look at all the couples in the Bible. The first documented wedding was between Jacob and Leah, and that was accomplished through fraud. And let it be said, there was no governmental authority to recognize it. Let it also be said that the marriages usually documented in the Bible were either polygamist or otherwise often really screwed up. Frankly, I don’t want to emulate Biblical marriage.
You are also wrong in every sense of the word. What planet are you people from?
Marriage in regards to the law is a contract that binds two estates. There is no religious qualification to get a marriage license.
Well, at the time it was ‘founded’ [and sorry, but pre bible cultures and religions also had this institution in different forms, but that’s an aside note], it’s because religion WAS the law. Legal and religion were one and the same. Now that modern cultures [in some places] have a separation between the two, they are not the same. What is the deal with this topicon this thread today? People get married at the courthouse all the time-indicating the civil contract reality of marriage in today’s world. You cannot have just a church marriage today and still receive benefits, tax breaks, legal rights, etc. The legal aspect supersedes the religious one, in today’s world.
Honestly, I don’t think marriage is a religious institution all that much anymore. I think they probably just don’t feel the need to be married. What they have seems solid and stable and due to the success of their careers and lack of kids, they probably have less of a financial reason to get married then other couples.
I do think Diane’s position might be more fuelled by her own divorce from Guillaume Canet then whatever happened in her childhood though.
For those living in the United States and choosing not to be married, please be aware of your state’s laws regarding common law marriage. Some states recognize it and some don’t. Regardless how you view marriage, make sure that in some way you’re legally protected should something happen to your significant other.
This subject always reminds me of something that happened to a friend several years ago. She and the man that she considered her husband were together for over 20 years. He was in a car accident and in a coma for several days before he died. His family, who had been estranged from him and always hated her, swooped in. Since their state didn’t recognize their common law marriage, his family was able to bar her from seeing him in the hospital. They were also able to take everything that had his name on it after his death. The legal mess left her an emotional and financial wreck.
That happened to a gay couple that I knew before the laws started changing. The fact that he couldn’t be with this person that he loved whole heartedly for decades in the last moments of his life, while his family that abandoned him because of his sexuality stole from him, was gut wrenching.
That’s so sad. I’m sure they aren’t the only ones that this happened to. I’m so glad the laws are changing.
A little weird that you kinda blame one person for a couple not being married. It implies something went wrong. There’s nothing wrong with not being married. They are fine just the way they are and that’s what he said.
Funny, my boyfriend’s mother does exactly the same thing – throws out the things of his or his sister that she doesn’t like and then claim she doesn’t know what happened to them. Not too feed some stereotypes but she also is German 😉
So Religions do own marriage (by the way note he is not say a Christian event he said a religious event) Here is why. There are two world views regarding how the world came about. Creation and Evolution. In Creation God created man and woman in the beginning of time and joined them together – marriage. That is where the whole concept comes from in all religions (when in the middle east – while some believe in more then one woman in the picture it is still a marriage and religiously based). The other world view Evolution believes that species evolved and all relationships are for the production of the species. There is no special bond between man and woman. In fact the whole monogamy thing within a marriage is based on religion while the evolution idea is that there is no need for a lasting relationship between man and woman. Religion owns the marriage concept and I see no reason why people who don’t believe in the religious view would want to marry
“In fact the whole monogamy thing within a marriage is based on religion while the evolution idea is that there is no need for a lasting relationship between man and woman.”
Forgive my language, but what in HELL are you talking about???
Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore. :-/
Wtf?
You are aware, right, that there are many religions that don’t necessary prescribe monogamy? And that this evolution vs creation distinction is profoundly particular to Christian worldviews. Your argument isn’t historically sound.
Marriage as recognized by the law is the merger of two estates. In regards to the law, it is about property and making decisions regarding that property.
Additionally, I think your summary of the people who believe in evolution to be completely out of touch. Believing in evolution doesn’t dictate people’s relationship styles. That is crazy, yo.
Are you a troll or just a very stupid person? There are a large number of posters on here of many different faiths and a great deal of knowledge. People have explained upthread the origins of many biblical hijacks and if you can’t accept that I’m afraid we’ll have to assume the latter.
Are you high?
Creation is not an accepted theory outside religious circles. No scientist who is respected in the scientific community actuallly promotes creationism. It doesn’t even for the criteria to be properly called a theory.
Where the hell are all these Jesus trolls coming from?!?
@anon33 seriously! I have no idea!
Believe what you want, but dont make sh!t up and reinvent science and history. Christians didn’t invent marriage, creationism is NOT a theory. There is a LOT of koolaid being drank today. I will pass!
Yeah, what is this, Celebrity Christian Mingle?
@goodnames
I’m looking for someone tall,dark, and handsome. Just someone who i can take long walks on the beach with, discussing mutually appreciated narrow world views and a share my complete disregard for systemic research with.
*whistful sigh*
Grimmsfairytale
Yes…if only my prince would come…and we could spend our days judging and hating everyone who isn’t exactly like us, as Jesus taught us to…
Lol, I guess you have to laugh, but it’s really just sad.
@goodnames
I flat out admit to being an athiest, but Jesus in the New Testament was the original hippie. Love everyone, be nice, etc. It took a step back from the fire and brimstone, rape, murder and condemnation of homosexuals and non believers. Most of the hostility is OT, and supported only via cherry picking (“homosexshulllsss errrr bad” but they mix fabrics and eat shellfish). It’s ridiculous. And you’re right, it is hilarious but starkly terrifying because these are REAL ideologies these people have….
Smdh.
@grimms
I’m a Christian, but people like these just make me sad. They are missing the whole point, and just as you said, cherry picking a few verses from the Old Testament to back up their ignorance and hatred. They have high jacked my religion and become so vocal that I am sometimes embarrassed to admit I’m a Christian, because it has become so associated with this kind of extreme Duggarhead. Ugh.
Your comments made me laugh, though, so thank you.
@BlueeJay….you’re a Duggar aren’t you….
Is everyone overlooking the fact that Diane has already been married? To my childhood crush Guillaume Canet (now married to Marion Collitqrd). So his argument is null and void, when you take into account as some point in her life marriage was important enough to have been married once before. Even if her parents were divorced that didn’t stop her then.
And in France religious and civil ceremonies are separate events. Most of Europe too non?
People marry in the courthouse in the USA, too. Exactly. They are separate, even in the USA. And you absolutely NEED the legal/civil here in order to get any benefits out of the union in terms of a merger of two entities [partners]. I don’t know where people are getting all of this ‘it’s a religion thing’. SO random in the modern, separation of church and state reality.
And this is not about my personal opinion or subjective view. It’s factual. lol. Um, a civil ‘contract’ is just that, a contract. And you need it in order to use the marriage a basis for any legal rights or benefits, here in the USA.
My partner and I are also godless children of divorce. Our reasons for not marrying are numerous and in the absence of church/family pressure we don’t even think about it much. But the reality is that in the U.S., health care and social security are designed to privilege married people, so we’re likely to reevaluate things closer to our retirement years.
Regarding his new show The Affair, I’m totally hooked after the first episode.
My Mother and her friends (The Ladies Who Lunch With Lots Of Wine) would get together and discuss social issues on a monthly basis. These women, who were life-long friends, were born between 1919 and 1925 so they were the generation who married around the time of WWII and married for life. When they were in their early to mid 70s during the early 1990s, the issue of marriage came up. All of these women had nursed at least one daughter through at least one divorce by this time. They decided to call their daughters after lunch and tell us that we could let a man park his boots under our beds as long as we wished but to keep everything in our own name and kick him out whenever we pleased and not bother to marry again. I was stunned by this decision since it seemed so at odds with their generation’s way of thinking. (I also wished I had known what kind of wine they were drinking!)
She is ageless. He partnered up so he better do what she says!
The last beardy pic in the gallery. That’s all.
I got married outside on a warm sunny day. My two sons walked me down a path towards my now husband while an actual string quartet played Pachelbel’s Cannon. It was beautiful. I think a marriage ceremony is more important to a woman, a man can do without. I think JJ isn’t comitted, not fully or he has a fear of ruining a good thing??
I’m sorry, but that is so sexist as to be absurd. PLENTY of women have absolutely no desire to get married. I was one of them. My husband and I, years before any wedding, had made our promises to each other and as far as we went, we were married. There are much larger committments. The greatest gesture of commitment my husband ever had to me wasn’t a wedding, it was when he converted to my religion. He did it for himself, but he also talked a lot about how he loved that he could take on something that I loved as an expression of commitment, and that was far more moving than anything that happened at a wedding. That was the greatest act of committment he could do for me, personally, and that created the marriage as far I’m concerned.
You shouldn’t presume to speak for any woman except yourself when it comes to this stuff.
It’s just an opinion…..and I don’t speak for all women. Good for you that you place more importance on your religion. I don’t believe in it myself as it does nothing for me.
When my husband and I got our first mortgage together a couple of years ago, to me that was a way greater commitment than the legal act of marriage.
Anyway, I’m an atheist and my agnostic husband and I got married because we liked the idea of doing a “legal” commitment to each other, to forge a bond together, show each other and our loved ones we were in it for the long haul etc. I think Josh was just looking for an excuse to say they just plain old don’t want to get married.
Plus, I think we put on a really great wedding reception (in Vegas), the food and drinks were awesome, and our friends and family are still raving about it a year later :D.
I don’t know him from any of the shows or movies mentioned — just the awesome FX show Fringe. Great to binge-watch if you have Amazon Prime!
I understand the common argument is when you are happy and comfortable with your life partner why get married when you have nothing to prove? I see it differently however.
It’s inarguable that marriage offers a variety of legal benefits. To me the question is why not if you are so sure that person is your life partner?
It doesn’t have to be expensive, religious, or complicated. You get a bunch of assurances just in case something happens. More importantly you get an excuse to throw an awesome party and reconnect with old friends to party like the old days. At least that is how it was for my college friends who have gotten married.
Further I hate this idea that getting married will somehow ruin the relationship. It seems contradictory to say our relationship is strong and impervious to outside forces so we don’t need marriage and at the same time say marriage will ruin it.
“To me the question is why not if you are so sure that person is your life partner?”
Reverse that argument and you have the perfect defense of NOT getting married: “If you’re so sure this person is your life partner, then why the need to get married?”
Commitment is commitment, whether two people want an official document and the benefits that come with marriage or not is a personal choice. Marriage is NOT a guarantee of fidelity, monogamy, and commitment.
Maybe I didn’t word my self clearly. I already understand that people don’t feel the need to marry if they feel it won’t change anything and their relationship is already cemented. That doesn’t really answer my question though.
My question is why avoid getting married? You have nothing to lose only to gain from the added legal benefits and a way to celebrate your relationship with the people who mean the most to you. To me it seems even if you don’t think it matter or is important, you are better off having it than not. The only way it would become a burden is if you get divorced.
I don’t think that saying you don’t feel need marriage to solidify your relationship is a good defense. That’s not necessarily the point. The point is for the legal benefits and the celebratory aspects. Now rather saying the legal benefits and the celebration with others are unimportant or not of interest would be a fine argument for me.
Anony…until recently many of the people in my life weren’t eligible for those benefits, being gay. That was one of my objections to marriage. Another is that I wholeheartedly object to marriage conferring legal benefits that all citizens should be entitled to (I.e. healthcare unrelated to employment status). And most of all, statistically speaking marriage is a sketchy proposition. They don’t last. If what we’re doing works for us, why take a risk on something I’ve seen fail repeatedly? I want legal benefits because I work hard and pay taxes, not as a reward for letting the government define my relationship status.
I always felt that there is an elephant in the room that practically no one wants to address: Why on earth does a person need to be married in the first place, just to have access to numerous legal perks and benefits? There was a woman who wrote a book about this years ago. She found over 1000 legal benefits and perks a person can get for just being married. Most of them, you don’t have to be married for a long time or have any other provisions, just be married.
I thought it was so unfair.
I think his view is interesting… My husband and I aren’t religious at all, but we got married because of the symbolism marriage represents to us. It was the “next level” of our relationship, and demonstrated to our friends and family that we were that much more committed to each other. Not to say long term, non-married couples aren’t- I feel everyone should do what feels right for them. But I do think the religious aspect to his reasoning is a little off. We got married at the courthouse in our town, by a secular officiant.
I think it’s a lot less about not being religious, and a lot more about the damage that is suffered by children of divorce. More and more studies show difference between long term relationships had by children of divorce versus children of marriages that last and the hesitation to get married is always mentioned.
To me marriage is just a contract. A very binding one, that is.
If so many people think marriage is so pointless and unnecessary, why did gay people fight so hard for the right to do it?
We arent religious but without getting officially married I couldnt get on my (now) husbands health insurance and we wanted to have kids. Interestingly enough, domestic partnerships were totally legit at his company insurance-wise. Gay spouses could get on the insurance without any problem, but for heterosexuals we had to be married. We knew we wanted to be together forever so it was fine but we arent religious so it seemed a little weird. We got married not in a church, but a chapel.