These are photos of Shia LaBeouf in NYC earlier this week. He was in town for a court apperance to follow up on his drunken Cabaret arrest (which followed a string of bizarre behavior). Shia showed proof of his outpatient alcohol program. The judge ruled that Shia’s record will be cleared if he stays out of trouble for six months.
Shia has a new interview with Dazed Digital. It was an email interview with some Skype-like interaction between himself and the journo. Shia talks a lot about his “baghead” art exhibit called #IAMSORRY (a rip off of Marina Abramovic’s 1974 exhibit). Shia sat in a gallery for seven hours per day, five days per week. He silently cried his eyes out and provided a bunch of props (including a whip, pliers, a Transformers toy, Hershey’s kisses) for people to use on him. One by one, people entered the room and did whatever they pleased to Shia. Most of them just talked to him as he sat mute. Shia tells Dazed that a woman raped him inside the gallery:
What happened during the exhibit: “Almost everyone who came in had preconceived notions of what they were going to experience, and as soon as Nastja Rönkkö brought them through the curtain, everything changed. I went from being a celebrity or object to a fellow human. I was genuinely remorseful. It wasn’t manipulation, I was heartbroken. People I’ve never met before came in and loved on me and with me. Some would hold my hand and cry with me, some would tell me to ‘figure it out’ or to ‘be a man.’ I’ve never experienced love like that; empathy, humanity.”
One woman went way too far: “One woman who came with her boyfriend, who was outside the door when this happened, whipped my legs for ten minutes and then stripped my clothing and proceeded to rape me … There were hundreds of people in line when she walked out with dishevelled hair and smudged lipstick. It was no good, not just for me but her man as well. On top of that my girl was in line to see me, because it was Valentine’s Day and I was living in the gallery for the duration of the event — we were separated for five days, no communication. So it really hurt her as well, as I guess the news of it travelled through the line. When she came in she asked for an explanation, and I couldn’t speak, so we both sat with this unexplained trauma silently. It was painful.”
His “method” Fury shoot: “Fury is the most meat I’ve ever had to chew on. David (Ayer, director) told us right from the gate: “I need you to give me everything.” So the day after I got the job, I joined the US National Guard. I was baptised — accepted Christ in my heart – tattooed my surrender and became a chaplain’s assistant to Captain Yates for the 41st Infantry. I spent a month living on a forward operating base. Then I linked up with my cast and went to Fort Irwin. I pulled my tooth out, knifed my face up and spent days watching horses die. I didn’t bathe for four months. I met some tankers who told me that was just the way it was out there — some guys had the same pair of socks on for three years.”
[From Dazed Digital]
The last paragraph confirms rumors that Shia pulled out his own tooth on the Fury set as a form of method acting. I’ll never understand the method thing, and this new knowledge does not help matters.
Now … on Shia’s revelation that he was raped during his art exhibit. This is horrifying and terrible. Just because Shia invited people to whip him doesn’t mean they could do anything they wanted to do to him. He was raped, and that is one messed up situation.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN
When a director (or coach or teacher or whomever) says they need someone to give them “everything,” I don’t think it’s meant to be taken so literally or to such an extreme. And that gallery exhibit, wow. “It was no good” indeed.
He seems like such a lost soul. I hope he continues on a healthy path.
Wasn’t Laurence Olivier who said, “Just try acting…”
Exactly.
@Talie – I was getting ready to type that very thing!
I’m currently studying theatre and every teacher I have warns us about using method. It can be dangerous to one’s well being. Think Heath Ledger and Marilyn Monroe..both studied under a specific kind of method acting both took it too far and ended up abusing drugs. Method can be used to a certain point but one should never do anything that will physically or mentally harm themselves and method should not be relied on to achieve the wanted effect…there are other exercises that are much more effective and reliable.
Uh, well, I studied The Method with Lee Strasberg himself. Nothing you describe is remotely related to The Method. Neither is pulling out you own tooth.
I can imagine. Was what Shia did for Fury actually Method or just his own version of immersing himself into character?
I never mentioned Strasberg but okay…Lee Straberg’s method was the reason why many of his contemporaries broke with him. The use of memory recall he loved so much was and is controversial….Shia used these harmful things he did to himself as fuel for his acting…Not Good. Method, in my opinion is okay to a point! However where I draw a line is when actors do physically and mentally harmful things to themselves for an extended period of time. It isn’t healthy and probably accounts for some of Shia’s erratic behavior of late. Like I stated it’s just my opinion and the opinion of many of my peers and teachers but I certainly wouldn’t do that ever to myself. There are other techniques that are just as effective and much less dangerous to the actor. You’re entitled to your belief…what works for you doesn’t work for me is all.
The Method is a series of techniques and exercises, including relaxation, sense memory and the use of personal memories to help an actor establish a more authentic inner life during performance. These techniques were taught as consciously used tools by an artist.
Sandy Miesner and Stella Adler (I went to her classes as well) did break from each other based on professional and personal differences, but NONE of these forms of Stanislawski’s original ideas encouraged anything remotely like you are suggesting.
Esmon is right on in describing Shia’s behavior as some sort of personal immersion. Unfortunately Shia seems to have some emotional issues and he is not being served well at all by his friends, his doctor or the police she’s been in contact with for his disturbing behavior.
I’ve got no objection to everyone doing what works for them, (in fact being an artist is about authentic exploration) but you are misrepresenting The Method.
and esmon I would consider Shia a method actor…but frankly I hate that term because it is so confusing. There are some many different schools of acting( meisner, starsberg, ) and there are some many different kinds of technique and acting exercises that is hard to keep them straight at times. Obviously I’m not an expert but my instructors who i hold in high regard dislike the use of method because of the often negative effect it has.
I can understand Heath Ledger’s problems with this method, as you say, because he played a really dark and disturbing character (The Joker) before the overdose that resulted in his death. I imagine it would be harmful to use method with such a character. But Marilyn Monroe? She usually played pretty fluffy roles. I think with her it was a much, much deeper issue.
“The Method”. *snort*
Why was security not provided seeing that he is a celebrity?
That is my question as well. Plus it was a private room shielded from the public. Were there any security cameras?
He needs to report this to the authorities.
He can report it (and needs massive amounts of mental health intervention for many reasons) but to be frank, charges would never stick. He didn’t say anything or resist because it would have been outside the confines of his art project? Not in a million years would a jury convict on that.
Well, we don’t know the scope of what happened. I know you aren’t implying this, but just because he was participating in some art project doesn’t mean he was a participant in his assault.
Exactly. He put himself in a mental place where he was submissive, vulnerable, and observant, so he probably felt like he couldn’t say or do anything about it; his authenticity was worth more to him than standing up for himself. And/or he was crippled by the parameters he created for himself in that situation (mental illness can convince a person of far more bizarre things.) Either way, I feel for him. I wonder would have happened to a woman in a similar exhibit in similar circumstances.
I completely understand your concerns and in no way was what happened OK. However, speaking strictly on the legal side of things, no jury would accept that story and convict. Unless Shia was declared mentally incompetent at the time there is just no way.
Charges wouldn’t stick, you’re correct. Let’s face facts, he placed a sign that said “do anything to me” and this apparently included whipping him with whips he provided. Rape is a form of physical violence, and he welcomed other forms of physical violence to be done to him when he provided the tools to suggest such. That sign would be argued as proof of his “consent”.
Morally, what this woman did is horrible and downright wrong; legally, she simply did what he allowed, “anything”. So too, any individuals who engaged in other forms of violence against him.
Additionally, there was absolutely no attempt by Shia to stop this, saying no, moving, etc. I do believe the California recognizes only saying yes as consent, saying no is not necessary, but the fact is he didn’t attempt to stop it because of “art”. Any defense lawyer worth anything is going to argue that his consent was that sign.
Oh BS. You can’t consent to being harmed. Look it up. Further, a sign saying “Do anything to me” does not create the duty on the part of a spectator to in fact do “anything” to him. It certainly does not absolve his attacker for a performing a criminal act.
I just want to say that I find this disturbing. I just read about the Marina Abramovic piece and she said that people started doing crazy things to her as time went on. But she seemed of sane mind then and now. Shia’s experience is weird because I don’t think he’s mentally ok.
I also want to add that I appreciate the conversations happening here. I will admit that I was shocked and skeptical by the use of the word “rape” in these circumstances, but now I’ve been given a lot of perspective.
Really unsure on this. He didn’t resist or say no, or give the girl any indication this was against his wishes. He made the decision to stay in character for this exhibit. He made the decision to engage. Or at the very least allow this interaction.
On the other hand this person came in with motives.
Clearly Shia was not ok with what happened. It was against his wishes, but idk. He was in a position of power. He could stop it. He could call security. He didn’t continue it out of fear or force.
I still stand firm he doesn’t actually know what rape is since he used it in reference to press and paps. It’s simply a word to get reaction and express an extreme.
Why are people not equally appalled at people whipping him? The woman who allegedly raped him whipped him for ten minutes first. And I do say allegedly simply because, although I generally side on believing the person who states such an event happened to them, I have difficulty understanding how such a thing could have happened in front of hundreds of people without a SINGLE one of them tweeting or otherwise mentioning it. Not then, and not since.
When you combine that with someone who claims he lived on a FOB for a month (??? Really? Where, Iraq or Afghanistan?) and spent days watching horses die, it is also clear his reality doesn’t always line up perfectly with the general consensus.
According to a press release from the Oregon National Guard, he spent a week in company with NGArmy troops.
http://pdxfanews.blogspot.com/2013/06/actor-follows-oregon-national-guard-to_14.html
They may have allowed him to shadow some field training exercises such as these:
http://www.dvidshub.net/unit/41IBCT#.VHkTWGezknI
Oddly, he says he THEN caught up with the rest of the cast at Ft Irwin. Ft Irwin is where he would get a MUCH closer experience to living on a FOB than just about anywhere else in the US!
Abbot—
Is this where all my favorite commenters
From CDAN went ?!?!?!???
Why is this crazy bitch not in jail. He should have filed charges.. she is a nut and a criminal. Disgusting.
Why would she go to jail. She did not FORCE him, he could have put a stop to it, but it would not have been ‘true’ to his art project? Pfft, please. This guy is crazy as a loon!!
Men can be raped as well and I sm glad he is speaking about in public. Many men feel ashamed and weak and that has put them off reporting the crime.
But couldn’t he have called for security? Fought back? Ran out of the room? Screamed? Ended the social experiment then and there? I’m genuinely confused.
But those are the same kind of victim blaming questions we hear when women are raped or date raped. If some one has not consented to intercourse, or cannot consent for any variety of reasons, it is still rape.
The problem is, he just says she went in, raped him and left. That’s super weird. It’s not like having a knife on your throat, being physically forced in an empty street, or being coherced by your dad when you were a child.
Nobody is questioning that that woman is insane. But being next to a whole art gallery full of people and, we would guess, not saying a thing, not getting up and leaving, is very very weird. If I’m followed by a guy on a crowded street, and go to a shop, a bar, anywhere. If I’m in an empty street and see a skechy guy nearby, I walk faster and stay as far away from him as possible. It’s your instinct telling you to leave.
Shia doesn’t seem to be very well in the head, though. And I also think he should press charges. But I wouldn’t have given people a whip so they hurt me either, so I don’t know.
Jenny
That is NOT victim blaming questions. Not in this case. They’re valid questions and concerns for a few reasons OTT. Museum Security. His well being. If anyone could walk in and threaten his life or safety.
When those questions are applied to date rape cases it’s more valid. Why? Power.
Those in date rapes are not in a position of power. Shia had all the power. He had security. He could have said to her to not do that. He chose to stay silent for a social experiment. And this is all assuming he was against it from the start to finish.
If he allowed this to happen to him for method acting, and that’s what it’s sounding like, he has no right to claim this.
I agree with Florc!!
Oh yes, men can be raped, that is not (at least by me) in question. What is in question is HIS comment that he was raped. Rape is FORCING yourself onto someone and this woman was ALLOWED by Shia to do whatever she wanted to do with him. That is NOT rape, and he is a real douche for looking for any kind of sympathy behind this!!
I agree coach red. Men are raped although almost exclusively by other men and it must be a horrible experience for them. Of course this woman’s behaviour was appalling. I am not for a minute blaming someone for their own rape if they don’t “fight back”- people can be paralysed by fear, and terrified of being killed. Not wanting to spoil your art exhibit seems to fall into a different category. Shia and this woman both sound pretty disturbed to me.
Some of the comments I have seen on the internet about this sorry have been terrible.
Interesting how a man speaking about rape is always made fun of. I imagine if this had happened to a woman there would not be so much laughter. Sad people.
I agree.
The double standard however is a byproduct of patriarchy unfortunately.
Rape is only suppose to happen to women 😒 so when it happens to men, they’re ridiculed for not being “man enough. ”
I absolutely detest “don’t drop the soap” comments when it comes to inmates and the collective acceptance by people towards anyone they deem irrelevant to society.
It’s really a sad reflection of society and shameful to say the very least.
Agreed, on all counts.
And the “Bubba is waiting…/soap” comments make me ill, too. If a person is convicted of a crime, prison (confinement, time served) is the punishment. It shouldn’t be prison (confinement, time served, rape, maybe HIV infection, and complete destruction of the person’s ego identity). That’s just wrong.
I feel sorry for Shia in this situation. He was violated on many levels, and being laughed at by people on the internet is just one more injury added to what happened to him.
Very sad.
I totally agree with you. Everyone is harmed in a sexist system even the gender considered to be superior.
I don’t like rape jokes at all and ones about men illuminate that rape isn’t recognised as an act of violence; that can happen anytime another human is treated like an object instead of being seen as a person. It makes me so very mad how the victim is shamed, blamed and gossiped about.
Yes to everything you said. Especially the prison rape ‘jokes.’ Rape is rape regardless of gender. A violation of both body and spirit that I will never, ever find funny.
If it was a woman, she’d have been told she asked for it.
They need to find that woman, though, and arrest her. He seems like he’s barely hanging on by a thread. All that self medicating he was doing can’t help.
Are you kidding me? You think a woman would get any sympathy for this? If a woman “goes upstairs in a fraternity house” and is gang raped, people say she should have known better. If a woman goes a date with a Kennedy and wears sexy underwear, and is raped, he gets off because “she obviously wanted to have sex.” He is only getting sympathy for this because he is a man. A woman would be crucified.
To be fair, you’re right, however there are plenty of people asking why didn’t he fight… how come he didn’t overpower her… why is he waiting until now.
He’s getting the same treatment.
It is mainly women going WTF with all this because we’re subject to harassment daily. As a survivor, who laid in shocked compliance, unwilling to fight out of fear for my I’m always sympathetic to the victim.
I agree with you insofar as that a woman would not receive much more sympathy. HOWEVER, there is a difference in how male and female rape victims are treated. Very few people deny that it is physically possible to rape a woman – most believe it is possible. However, I have met so, so many people who actually believe that it is physically impossible to sexually assault or rape a man. It is’s worth noting that although female victims report in very small numbers, men report even less – and men assaulted by women are the least likely group of all to report – mostly because they know what will happen (“You are larger than most women, why didn’t you fight her off?”)
We can do both, in my mind – acknowledge that women still face terrible hurdles to reporting rape while also understanding that male victims – especially those victimized by women – have their own unique hurdles that deserve addresing.
Yes, I never meant to imply that men should be shamed for being raped. Just disagreeing with OP that a woman would be taken more seriously.
oh PLEASE he’s only getting sympathy because he’s a man? You have to be COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY joking! Have you ever looked at any article where a man has been raped or molested by a woman? Every single time, the man’s rape is lessened in some way by avoiding using harsher words like rape or assault, even though if it was a woman, those words would definitely be used to describe what happened, and the comments section are always filled with stuff like how lucky the guy is and how people wish they could be in his place, or women mocking or minimizing the situation or even having sympathy for the abuser if it was some lonely teacher molesting a student. Sentences for female perpetrators are often lesser, media coverage of male victims is minimal, and most people still don’t think women can rape. So you can miss me with ‘oh he’s only getting sympathy because he’s a man’ because if he was a woman, there’d have been an investigation, a media blitz, and several essays in the comments section here about how rape culture is affecting our society.
Fighting over who has it worse is pointless and missing the mark. It is wrong, no matter who it happens to. Period. This discussion is needlessly divisive, IMO.
GNAT
Voice of reason again!
This is not about the gender. Same questions would be asked.
This is simple deflection. Attack those asking questions instead of flooding out sympthies. I would ask the same of a girl who claimed this. Was there security? Was there a reason she couldn’t stop those actions of the other person or was it simply her choice to not speak or break the exhibit while the assault was taking place?
I’m not an art person. I don’t understand these exhibits where a person enters into a state of total vulnerability while surrounding themselves with strangers who could harm them if they chose to. And the person would accept that.
Maybe Shia was so involved with this he shut down any ability or choice to resist. He was only to sit there and take what they dished.
And when the girl crossed the line nothing in him resisted. Nothing in him kicked in an instinctive reaction out of fear. He let her walk away. A criminal. This I don’t get. If roles were switched I still wouldn’t get it.
Actually everyone gets shamed for being raped just in different ways. A woman raped by a man is told that in some way she caused it whether it be by the way she dressed or really simply because she left her house while being a woman. A man raped by a woman gets laughed at since a woman isn’t supposed to be able to overpower a “real” man, have other guys say how they wish they were “raped” too, or people figure they must have wanted it because they had an erection because for a lot of people an erection equals consent even though that is not true. A man raped by a man has do deal with having his masculinity questioned and being ridiculed. A boy raped by a female has to deal with people first wanting to know if their rapist was hot, and telling them how lucky they are and how they wish that had happened to them at such a young age, or that their rapist made them a man. A girl raped by a male has to deal with being called a fast in the @ss slut who must have on some level enticed the guy to do it.
Society loves to blame the victim because if they can make the rape of the victim appear to be solely be the victim’s fault then it makes society feel like it is less likely to happen to them, when in fact rape can happen to anyone which is a really scary thought.
Bingo.
Completely agree with Jinni. Also agree with Frida_K and Marcel Marcel about the prisons. Being cut off from all of freedom, society and loved ones is the punishment, not being sent to a locked room to get raped at random by people who are mentally sick. And it’s infuriating because it feels like even the most EDUCATED people in our country (Judges, for example) are happy to let this go on. It’s sick, and unforgivable since the law is supposed to be a cool eye that looks at the facts and stays out of that emotional part of ourselves that wants to hurl pain at someone blindly and beyond measure. I’m scraping the barrel here, but it reminds me of the old insane asylums that let the inmates sit in their own filth while people paid to see them like some animals in the zoo. I’m not keen on convicts, but if you want people to be raped as punishment for their crime (as SICK as that is), then include it in the sentence. Otherwise, fix the damn epidemic.
Perfectly articulated. Thank you!
PERFECTLY stated.
PERFECTLY stated.
You know, OK, I actually keep.track of that kind of thing because rape is a serious indicator in how we treat women. Here are some things that you see with rape:
*Good looking men are said “not to need to rape
,*Good looking women….asked for it
*Drunk men are not responsible for their actions
*Drunk women are seen as disgustingly irresponsible
*Good looking men are imbued with virtues
*Good looking women are seen as suspicious
*Female rape victims are always accused of lying, wanting revenge, asking for it by being provocative
*Rape is seen as a natural risk that can’t be controlled or stopped. Therefore women who get raped are irresponsible for not treating rape like bad weather
*Male rape victims NEVER have their clothing choices questioned (especially if they were raped by another man)
*It is NEVER implied that male victims lied, wanted revenge, etc., etc., With women, even with girls, even when the rapist was in some position of authority, there’s some attempt to indicate that the victim is somehow untruthful
*A few years back, a male serial rapist was targeting men in Texas. The victims’ clothing, sobriety, degree of “provocation”, carelessness, and “irresponsibility” were not discussed in newspapers
*Jerry Sandusky’s victims were NEVER called “provactive”: seven-year-old girls have been labelled as such by judges
*Other males sometimes treat male victims of female rapists as “lucky dogs.” They are never asked what they wore, etc., It is NEVER hinted that they lied.
Some of the above and too many more come from Helen Benedict’s “Virgin or Vamp:How the press covers sex crimes.” It’s an exhausting analysis of how we use loaded language to attack rape victims.
LaBoeuf, as someone who might be mentally ill, (he sure seems like it to me) is especially vulnerable to attack. Often victims freeze in place. Florence Rush found some very disturbing defense mechanisms in male victims, for example: they often stated that they felt that rape was “supposed” to happen to girls, not boys. Some of them fought off that sense of being “feminized” (because rape is informal for girls) by attacking women and girls.
Female rapists of men often seem to hold a similar attitude, flipping classic sexism on its head. This woman who attacked him me needs to be caught.
Fairyvexxed
When you’re talking about here is “rape culture” and it’s not widely accepted. It’s still there, but not as much as it used to be.
Maybe Shia did freeze. Maybe the way he discusses it now is a defense mech. Maybe.
As of now he’s claiming rape. He’s claiming to be the victim and survivor of a sexual assault. And he won’t file charges. So, here we are.
Fairyvexed says: “It is NEVER implied that male victims lied, wanted revenge, etc., etc.”
Is she kidding? It is freakishly rare when anything *else* is said to a male victim. Let’s take just a few very recent examples:-
*Nigel Evans MP, Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons, is accused of raping a university student and sexually assaulting six other men. His defence counsel says the main complainant “gave every indication of consent. Now he seeks to turn the clock back.” The other “alleged incidents,” counsel says, “did not amount to much then and do not do so now.” Evans is acquitted of all charges in April this year.
*In Australia, four naval personnel are court-martialled for hog-tying and raping a young rating aboard HMAS Newcastle. The defence counsel “launched a scathing, extended attack on the credibility of the alleged rape victim and described his claims as a ‘ridiculous story,'” He also “accused the sailor of concocting the rape allegation so that he could make a claim for compensation.” The four are acquitted of rape in September this year; two of them later plead guilty to lesser charges of indecent assault and forcible imprisonment.
*Jerry Sandusky, a football coach at the Pennsylvania State University, is accused of sexually abusing at least ten young boys, all of whom are immediately charged by innumerable diehard PSU fans with fabricating or exaggerating their victimisation. For example, the website framingpaterno.com (one of many in the same vein) alleges that many of the victims “simply motivated by the huge sums of cash which were obviously coming their way” and that the others “simply rationalized their exaggerations/fabrications with the belief that they were helping to bring a bad man to justice.”
These responses are entirely typical of how men and boys who disclose their rapes/sexual assaults are treated, and are a large part of the reason why so few ever do so. As Noreen Abdullah-Khan found in her 2008 study of how the London Metropolitan Police handles male rape cases, more than 40% of complaints are dropped without investigation — twice the proportion of complaints brought forward by females.
It is also taken for granted that for men, being raped is not especially harmful. Fairyvexed, for example, refers to an episode in which, as she says, “a male serial rapist was targeting men in Texas,” raping at least five victims at gunpoint or knifepoint. In its report on the crime spree CBS News said, without irony, “No one has been seriously hurt” in the attacks. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/male-stalking-rapist-puzzles-experts/)
Unlike Fairyvexed, I know, from hard experience, exactly how male rape victims are regarded and treated both by the law-enforcement community and in society at large. (Mine was a male assailant, not that that made any difference.) The odds against us even being noticed, far less believed, by anyone at all are so hopeless that for her to add insult to injury with this cascade of nonsense is truly reprehensible. Had she had any vestige of conscience, ten minutes’ Googling would have been sufficient for her to learn that what she was saying was the precise opposite of the truth. Frankly, she should be thoroughly ashamed of herself.
FWIW, Elpirata, I’m from Houston and I remember the Baytown rapist and how the local media treated the victims. I never heard anyone downplaying the horrific things done to them. Why CBS News would write that, I have no idea. But here, people were outraged and terrified. The neighborhood formed watch groups and posted sketches everywhere. It was on the Houston news stations every night. The guy was ultimately sentenced to 99 years by the Baytown jury.
This is truly terrible (and there’s no question in my mind that this is rape). I also heard some visitors took this as an opportunity to physically and verbally abuse him. He’s already such a mess. This probably didn’t help.
It’s scary
I’m sorry but I have never heard of this exhibition and I don’t know what its about but couldn’t there have been some sort of security put in place and if not, couldn’t he just break out of whatever it was that he was doing and stop d crazy woman. Rape is not OK and shouldn’t be allowed under any circumstance. He needs to report this to the authorities.
This is what I don’t get as well. Couldn’t he just walk out of it? I mean rape is often a part of death threats, but I can’t imagine that the woman used that to be able to control him. I’m not saying that men can’t be raped, but this situation seems fishy.
And also his explanation that he couldn’t answer his girlfriend because he was doing his “art” – are you f*** kidding me? I can’t believe that his girlfriend is putting up with him.
Women who are raped by just lying there, without fighting back, are usually drugged. I don’t understand how it could be called rape if he just sat there and let it happen. I mean the dude did have options. Any woman would not allow an art project mean that she is also open to sex without crying out. Just sitting there…nope, nope, nopity no. If I were his girlfriend, I don’t think that I would trust his words about the value of the relationship ever again. To me, it sounds like the rape idea is just walking it back for his girlfriend.
Exactly….I don’t care if he was doing some “art” project…if someone started to rape him, you would think he would say “screw this art project, get the hell off me”….
He does say that she whipped his legs for 10 min (not sure if that’s accurate timing or it just seemed longer due to pain), but he could have been in emotional and physical shock from that. As I admitted above, Shia not fighting back is perplexing to me not only because this was an art exhibit, but also because we also assume men to have the power (and in most cases they do). However, he was in a vulnerable position in terms of the purpose/meaning behind his exhibit and maybe even mentally, because he’s had some strange incidents this past year (to say the least). From reading through these comments, I don’t want to be dismissive of his rape allegation. What will upset me, however, is if he doesn’t use this incident for anything more powerful. Rape, and in particular male rape, has stigmas that we are still fighting against. I will be genuinely disappointed if he just uses this story as simply a sad incident within his art exhibit but nothing more.
This is really messed up.
Some of the comments I’ve read online have give me such a headache 😤
The whole he could’ve fought back, why didn’t he say something, and how could he not say anything…
Ugh, ugh, and ugh.
The point of the of this exhibit was to stay silent, not react, and allow people to do whatever they wanted–this women was in a position of power over him due to the circumstances/ restrictions of the piece.
It’s really gross.
Sadly, I doubt very little will happen to this women due to society’s gross treatment of victims, not to mention antiquated ideas of what constitutes masculinity.
This man has really been put through the ringer personally–i don’t understand what makes him behave the way he does (I’m not referencing this incident btw), but, I do hope he gets some help.
Her seems to be encumbered by serious inner demons, this probably only amplified his inner turmoil.
I agree that it went too far if it really happened (something I still have doubts about it), and that the woman should be punished, but seriously: the point of this exhibit was to stay silent and still? that is more important than doing anything to prevent a rape? he wasn’ t drugged/drunk/tied/gagged/threatened and couldn’ t do anything about it. the only reason he did nothing was because he wanted to go method? And the position of power she was in was something he gave her! He could’ ve taken it back anytime if he had said anything! And no, it’ s not because he’ s a man, I would say the same about a woman. He wasn’ t forced, wasn’ t threatened, nor mentally incapacitated! what would have happened if there had been a fire/heartquake/tsunami/terrorist attack/nuclear bombing? I honestly doubt that he would’ ve stayed still because art required it!
Thank you, for writing this, so I didn’t have to!
I agree.
This guy sits in a room and refuses to talk or move and a woman comes in and touches him and has sex with him as he sits there. He could have broke character at any point and said no, pushed away this disgusting woman, anything, and that would have been the end of it.
I find using the word rape in this instance so disgusting towards rape victims. I don’t care if it was part of an exhibit where he didn’t interact with people. He had a CHOICE, and so was sexually abused for the sake of art. It was gross and inappropriate, but he never stopped it once and all for art. So call it whatever he wants to, I guess, but my friend who was fighting for her life and brutually raped and beaten in a city parking garage would feel no pity for him. The same goes for the man who stepped away from a concert to go to the restroom on the perimeter and two men accosted him and beat him and held him down against his will and raped him. These people had no CHOICE.
Ditto! As a sexual abuse victim, this infuriated me beyond belief! Thanks for putting it into words instead of me!
+1
JWQ, I couldn’t agree more.
Well he IS a method actor, it’s not out of the realm of possibility he take the same approach to this exhibit.
I’m not into performance art, however, this piece was about relinquishing complete control to other people without responding back.
So, he sat there and took it.
There was a power dynamic in this case because he was rendered helpless. Yes, he could have fought back. Yes, he could have screamed. No, he wasn’t drunk, drugged, or tied up…
Perhaps, he was in shock in how far she took it?
IF he’s lying then shame on him, as a survivor, I WILL forever loathe him.
In just not going to assume he’s lying because men ARE raped too, that, and I believe victims deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
/to each their own
Thank you, you just saved me the time writing this.
He wasn’t raped, and is marginalizing and mocking rape victims — MALE AND FEMALE — by saying he was raped.
Maria, I don’ t think men who claim they have been raped are automatically lying, I think this particular person is just fucking with us because he has a history of doing anything he can to gain attention and in the worst possible ways (pretending to be raped is one of the worst thing people can do, and personally, I hate women who do it way more than rapists themselves).
As for the method thing: according to your line of thought, he shouldn’ t be complaining about this at all, because since he accepted to go method and take everything directed at him, then it means that he gave implicit consent to potential rapists to go in that room and do anything they wanted. Which is exactly the opposite of what a decent society should work on the basis of, and everything I hate about rape society!
And I have read at the beginning of the page that you were a survivor of rape/abuse. You said that you were too scared to do anything to defend yourself, and I would never dream of telling someone who lived what you have lived that s/he has no right to complain because s/he did nothing, but this is a completely different thing. You were terrified, probably had no one around to cry for help, and just accepted it because you had no other choice! It sure as hell was NOT your choice, and I am really sorry for you and hope you are better. But this guy had hundreds of people outside the room, had the capacity of stopping her, wasn’ t even scared beyond belief, and did and said nothing because he wanted to be artsy and edgy! I would be less outraged if, at least, he had said that he was too ashamed to be caught in such a humiliating and terrible situation, but he is quite outspoken about the fact that he didn’ t do anything just for the sake of art! I don’ t understand how anyone could not just say “he’ s an idiot” and be done with it!
Agree with JWQ.
This incident aside, I find his description of the exhibit very interesting.
@JWQ: My friend was raped. She wasn’t drunk or drugged or tied down or threatened. She was in a state if shock due to someone violating her. She was mentally ill and someone took advantage of her. I find your comment so offensive and I think you need to really think through what you just said. Stop blaming the victim. I’m not a fan of Shia, but this was absolutely assault. He did not have the power in this situation. Please pull your head out of your understand that.
I get it, people are reluctant to create a situation where the victim is put on trial, so we try not to ask too many questions. But this approach can also be applied to absurd levels. It is valid to ask why he did nothing both during the attack and after. Is the power imbalance here in favor of the attacker? If his girlfriend was upset with him, doesnt that imply she also doesnt believe it was a one-sided incident? Does Shia ( a widely reviled celebrity) gain something from painting himself in such sympathetic colors without having it tested by actual authorities?
This reminds me of Kelly Kapoor on the Office, where anytime she was in trouble she would just claim she had been raped. Obviously because nobody wants to be the one asking questions when you throw that accusation out there.
very well said. Shia is clearly a very messed up person and I agree that what this woman did was inappropriate but it is not rape. Let’s not cheapen the word here.
It’s a very weird and nuanced situation. People comparing it to Cosby or child molestation is…..odd.
He was copying Abramovic’s installation directly, which also involved express and complete permission to do what they wanted to her; which also involved crossing her emotional, physical and sexual boundaries, that would exist normally outside of the guidelines of the installation, but for the part of the installation – permission was essentially granted to test to see how far people would go. He directly copied this. With consent given for ANYTHING, and him never revoking consent and being well aware of what to possibly expect, it’s hard for me to then jump to the rape label, at least in a legal sense.
You need consent to have sex with someone. She raped him.
@JWQ and anyone else saying this cheapens the word rape–as a survivor of sexual abuse, these comments actually sicken me, and I guarantee you if he was a woman stuff like this wouldn’t even be said.
When I was molested, I knew what the boy probably shouldn’t be doing what he was doing, and I knew that if I called my mom or cousin into the room she would’ve done something, but at the time it was happening it seemed almost vulgar and frigtening to let someone see what was happening, and the anxiety and disbelief and confusion left me unsure whether or not to say something. So I laid back and did nothing as this boy violently grinded himself on me and grab my still developing breasts and told me how much I wanted it baby, and held my arms down and made me promise not to tell my mom what had happened. Not every molestation or abuse victim is the same and to invalidate Shia’s experiences because he doesn’t fit your description of what a victim looks like is repulsive.
As I said, I would understand if he said that he didn’ t ask for help because he was ashamed to be caught in this situation, be he is out and about talking about him doing nothing because the rules of the exhibit said so. I don’ t know how I would react if someone threw me against a wall and raped me. maybe I would stay still, but I would do it because I would be terrified, helpless, and ashamed. But unless someone threatened to kill my family, I would never let something like this happen because I am working as a human mannequin in a museum and I am too devoted to the job to, at least try, to defend myself! It was a stupid exhibit, it wasn’ t as important as defending yourself from such a terrific situation! And he is also giving the vibe of “I endured it for the sake of art, I am a real artist, dammit!”. He’ s putting more importance on the fact that he was faithful to the exhibit than the fact that he was raped! It is NOT the same thing that happened to you (by the way, I am really sorry, I hope you’ re doing fine, and I hope the bastard who did that to you got punished). A person who is too terrified to do anything to defend him/herself, or who is too ashamed of what happened to him/her is NOT the same as letting someone violate him/her because they decided to do so for the sake of art!
But here’s the thing though you DON’T know what would happen if you were raped or molested, because it’s never happened to you. What happened to me and Shia, as I’ve said before, is similar, and if you think it isn’t you’re not only invalidating his experience, but mine as well, because for me there is little difference in what happened, besides the fact that Shia is a popular actor/celebrity. Your arguments against his reasonings sound a lot like the victim blaming targeted at female victims. If shia sounds like he’s placing more importance on the art exhibit than his victimhood, than he’s participating in what I dealt with for years trying to come to terms with the fact that I was inflicted with, which is the coping mechanism known as minimization. Many victims have to engage in a disconnect of their victimhood, to set it apart when talking about it as something smaller than it really was. When I found the courage to talk about my molestation when I got older, I never specifically used those words to describe what happened, and I always played it off as kids being kids or shied away from using harder words because if I did so it would seem too real for me to handle. Which is what it sounds like is happening with Shia. Maybe he *has* to focus on the art display part to deal with the trauma, maybe that’s his way of justifying what he allowed happening to himself so he doesn’t feel as much like a victim. Either way, if he’s allowing people to touch or use his body without his permission, we should be less focused on whether or not he’s doing this for attention, and more concerned about his mental health, and whether or not abuse has happened before. This entire exhibit seems like a cry for help from someone who’s had abuse that wasn’t addressed, and IIRC, he’s mentioned how his father was abusive.
And no, my molestor was never punished, because of attitudes much like yours–because if I laid there and let it happen, I must take part of the blame, right?
I never said it was your fault because it wasn’ t. because what happened to you is different than what happened to him. You didn’ t lay there and let it happen, you were forced to endure it, and held down, physically and emotionally. He, however, did just stay there and let it happen. Literally! Maybe he was scared, and maybe him focusing on the exhibit is his way of coping, but I don’ t know that, and I can only state an opinion formed by his attitude and words!
And yes, I have no idea how I would react if I were raped, but I was groped on a train, and I punched the guy in the face! I was allowed to do so because I had the chance to do something, unlike you, who didn’ t have that chance, but like Shia, who did and chose not to use it! I also do know that I would never consider following the rules of an exhibit more important than trying to defend myself!
And I am sorry, but I am not concerned about his mental health because I do not believe he has mental health problems. Maybe I will bite my tongue if he will ever be diagnosed with something and feel terrible about it, but I truly believe he is just a jerk who is acting, and using anything to stay relevant.
But apparently we just come from two completely different points of view. If I were in your place, however, I would probably react like Nur and found it disgusting that someone who could do something decided to not do anything, while I were in the opposite situation.
@JWQ But how is it any different? I just explained how similar our circumstances were–he was held down by the same shame I was, he and I could’ve both cried for help but didn’t, there were always people nearby that might’ve done something, and I wasn’t necessarily forced anymore physically than he was. So again, why do you keep saying it was different? What is your INSISTENCE that his and my experiences aren’t the same? If you think Shia’s rape doesn’t count, then you don’t think my molestation counts, or anyone who was in the same position’s rape counts. Because in your words, we just ‘let it happen’. Not everyone reacts the same, especially people who have a history of enduring abuse like me and Shia(he was allegedly abused by his father) have, where the right thing to do, we’ve been taught, is to simply not react at all. There are so many accounts of victims being frozen by shock and fear, and to act like molestation or rape only ounts if you react violently to it as you keep saying, is gross. And I don’t even know how to argue with a person who sees someone who allows people to abuse him in an art exhibit to the point of being raped and doesn’t think they need psychiatric help.
There are people when molested (no matter if it’s a party, a bedroom or an art performance) are like paralized.
I’ve never been assaulted, but I was molested (catcalling and some other unpleasant stuff) and when I tell about my awful experiences in the matter there’s always someone who tells me “you should have yelled at him, you should have punched”. BUT I COULDN’T, I don’t know why. In that moment a part of me is puzzled like “is this really happening ? It can’t be ! ” Another side is more like “If I yell what if he punchs me ?” I seriously don’t know what to do, and I stay there like frozen. It’ a bit too easy saying “he/you should have screamed”.
Everyone is entitled to his own reaction, there’is not a correct one, and people should have more simpathy to others violence experiences.
I am not INSISTING that your experience is different from his, I just think it is, which is also the reason why I think his situation is shady and yours isn’ t. Also the reason why you saying that I believe only victims who react in violence are “proper” victims is insane: you didn’ t react with violence and I have no problem believing that you were molested/raped, so I really don’ t understand the point here! I am not invalidating your experience, nor I am comparing it to Shia’ s, so you generalizing and saying that I think you are in the same situation while I have been pretty open about the fact that I don’ t think you are is really lost on me.
As for the last part of your comment: “I don’t even know how to argue with a person who sees someone who allows people to abuse him in an art exhibit to the point of being raped and doesn’t think they need psychiatric help.”. I am not even sure this happened at all, so from my point of view, he doesn’ t need psychiatric help because it didn’ t happen in the first place. Also, method actors: they are considered mentally normal for medical standards. yet they do stuff for their movies that is absolutely… I can’ t even find an adjective. I would use “insane” but that would invalidate my point! If he is that dedicated to his “craft” he could be mentally sane but simply too delusional to understand limits. Christian Bale starved himself, Daniel Day Lewis wants to be treated as his characters and spent I don’ t know how long pretending he was an amputee (I think I have read somewhere that he was this close to actually have his leg cut), Andy Serkis took drugs for a couple of years for a role… Do they need psychiatric help as well?
Anyway, as I said, I have no idea how to make you understand my point, you have no idea how to make me understand yours. Let’ s leave it at that, because I truly don’ t want to antagonize you more than I already have.
Your molestation as a child and Shia’s “do what you want to me for art”, a la Abramovic, literally could not be any more different.
@claire How? Because he ‘was asking for it’ with the art exhibition? Because having a show say do what you want to me means that people can come in and violate him sexually without reprimand? Because people are allowed to take advantage of someone that is clearly mentally vulnerable is a-ok, as long as there’s a sign saying do as you please? You’re appalling and please stop with the implications that this is his fault.
OK, I agree completely. I was sexually assaulted in college by an acquaintance. I was very drunk and never consented, but I also never said no or fought against it. It is very hard to explain why I never said no or stop; I just cried the whole time. To me it is not up to any one person to define what feels like a violation to another; if some one feels they were violated, it should not be up to us to judge.
JWQ you are Getting a hard time here and I don’t think you deserve it. It is valid to discuss this incident without being accused of being in the “they were asking for it” camp, which I would never ever think or say.
@Anne tommy, thank you.
I understand why they think that, and I am aware that just saying that I am not victim blaming is not enough to convince them, but I truly think that this is a completely different situation and that it is legitimate to have doubts and ask questions. And yes, being accused of this when I really am not is not pleasant at all.
Yes, we need to believe men too. I never “knew” men could be raped until my 20s when I dated a beautiful man (who I’m still in touch with–he’s such a good soul) who told me he’d been raped by a woman, told me the whole story, and begged me to never tell anyone (which I never will). He has physical as well as emotional scars over it. Awful.
Way too messed up on all levels.
He needs to report it, what a horrible woman. The comments on this (not here) are exhausting. I’m glad he said something about it, way too many people seem to think that it’s not rape if it happens to a man.
I’m glad that this site seems to be among the very few that is taking this seriously. The comments elsewhere are pretty terrible. If you believe the Cosby accusers, in my mind, you probably need to believe this as well.
As for security – a lot of artists don’t have it. Some of them believe that having it will affect the “atmosphere” of the piece, so they refuse. A lot of them operate under the belief that art is a safe realm where people respect each other and stuff like this doesn’t happen. In addition, a lot of men where raised with the belief that women can’t rape them (and that belief is still strong), so they don’t have anything to fear from women. Sadly, this proves that is not the case.
If Cosby had just one accuser a lot less people would believe her. With Cosby there are the number of accusers creating a pattern that is hard for anyone to deny.
i read the comments elsewhere too. and it turns my stomach. it reminds me of that taxi driver who was raped multiple times by his passenger (can’t remember the case details). the vile comments that followed chilled me to the bones. it saddens me that rape victims, male and female, have to still contend with a long lasting stigma due to something not their own fault.
and these types of exhibitions are scary, it brings out the worst in people 🙁
Marina Abramovic also spoke about some brutal museum visitors taking absolute glee in hurting her, sometimes she feared for her life.
it baffles me. yes, you have the permisison to, but you also have the choice not to. i thought these museum goers are cultured people?
i’m glad to read that here is not like everywhere else. it warms my heart to read all the comments here. and no matter how bad we think Shia is (behaviorally), he doesn’t deserved to be raped at all.
While “cultured” people can be equally vile (these are my circles, and there are assholes and fiends everywhere), I imagine what often happens in these live-artist exhibits is the publicity draws the predators in, after they read about a “sitting duck” in some ad or article about the show–people who may not otherwise go to that art show. It’s a double-whammy.
Having read fancy books doesn’t make you better. Why would you think people who pay to see nonsensical art installations would be better than the rest of the World?
It’s terrible, inappropriate and yes, that woman should be in jail. Having said that I don’t get it.. if that woman was raping him whythe hell didn’t he do/say anything? It’s ok if he decided not to for the art exhibit, but not when someone is using violence on you!
Also, was it really necessary for him to stay bath-free for 4 freaking months? Gross.
Why didn’t he do anything? For the exact same reasons a woman does nothing. Fear. Knowing they will not be believed. That’s why.
Your comment is part of the problem. It is not a victim’s job to respond in any particular way. He doesn’t describe what kind of woman this was. If she was larger than him, aggressive, etc. But none of that really matters. A victim does not have any duty to react in a certain way. It is the sole responsibility of the attacker to NOT attack them in the first place. That’s the issue. Anytime you question a victim’s response, it contributes to the problem. Did you think it was acceptable when Don Lemon questioned one of the Cosby accusers about why she simply did not bite him while he was orally raping her? No? Then why do you question this?
This isn’t the same thing as Cosby’s alleged victims. Those women were allegedly drugged ,intimidated and possibly threatened. Imo this is not what Shia is describing.
@FingerBinger, so he had to have been drugged for his rape to be validated? That sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. When I was molested I wasn’t drugged, and I knew if I called someone it would stop but the mental place I was in prevented me. Would that invalidate my victimhood as well? To me, it sounds as though Shia has experienced sexual abuse before, and his coping mechanism with that might’ve been to stay still and silent until it was over, and as a victim, seeing it happen again sent him to that place again. Lots of sexual abuse victims have habits like this as they’ve been taught in their sexual development that lying still and letting it happens means it’ll be over sooner, and especially since Shia is a man, and living in a society that tells us male victims don’t exist or shouldn’t be taken as seriously or be treated as a joke, particularly when it’s a woman attack them, he probably felt he couldn’t really protest or say anything.
But isn’t it? Not all of Cosby’s victims were drugged. That means that they had the ability to resist or fight back – just like it’s being Shia had the ability to do. And why do you shy away from answering the question above? Almost everyone here got why Don Lemon was being offensive when he questioned Joan Tarshis about why she simply did not bite Cosby. And remember, while she had ingested alcohol, she told Lemon she was awake enough to realize what was going on and to argue with Cosby about what he was doing. So if Lemon was wrong for asking why this woman did not resist, why is is acceptable to question why this man did not resist?
If you’re trying to be honest, it’s because you are engaging in rape apologism. The answer is because a victim does not have any duty to resist, fight, or otherwise to to stop a crime. The burden is on the attacker to stop the attack. And if you actually read the piece, you’d note that Shia gives very little actual description of the attack – and he really doesn’t have to. And BTW, just so we’re clear, why do you believe this woman could not have physically threatened or intimidated him? Nothing is mentioned about her size, her demeanor or how she handled herself, or anything she brought in with her.
People don’t realize how terrifying and shocking an attack can be. I have never been raped, but I have been sexually assaulted (groped). I am a person with two black belts and a boxing background, and I froze and did nothing. I beat myself up for weeks about that, because I’m the exact type how should be able to not freeze. So I know exactly how this can happen. Do I think not having security was a bad choice? Yes. But none of that negates what happened or makes him responsible. Trying to draw distinctions like what you’re doing is just an exercise in making excuses for not believing him or for excusing a rapist.
@OK First ,I’m sorry about what happened to you. Second ,I’m not victim blaming or victim shaming. I’m simply saying that being drugged and trapped in a room with someone is different from doing performance art where you actually tell people ‘do whatever you want to me’ and then they do it. I’m not saying he deserved it or was asking for it either. I’m just pointing out these scenarios are different.
@Sam – thank you for expressing that so eloquently!
Just because you say you are not victim-blaming doesn’t mean you’re not. You still haven’t answered a single question I’ve posed to you. Why is it acceptable to question why Shia did not fight off his attacker but wrong to question why Bill Cosby’s accuser did not? Both of them were cognizant enough to be aware of what was happening to them, so why this difference?
And this “do what you want with me” stuff is just more of the same. Let me be very clear about this: YOU CANNOT INVITE RAPE. You can’t. Let me introduce you to a very easy concept: Yes means Yes. That means that unless a person actually states that they wish to have sex with you, doing something with them is rape. Unless Shia expressly consented to this stuff, he didn’t consent, period.
And if he actually did place himself in a state of extreme vulnerability, that does not negate the assault. Most of us decent people get that when a person is in a super-vulnerable state (by choice or not), decent people have an increased duty to treat them with care, not a lesser duty. If he voluntarily placed himself in this kind of vulnerable state, that actually makes what she did WORSE, because she took advantage of a person who she knew to be especially vulnerable. You just keep trying to argue that there is a “difference” as if it actually exists and there are “levels” of rape. And that is classic victim blaming, despite your protests to the contrary.
Thank you Sam, for all your comments they’re well stated and addresses everything in a much better fashion than my attempts. People are more concerned with being labeled as a victim blamer that they refuse to acknowledge the very victim blaming things that they are doing instead of taking the criticism to heart and evaluating what they said.
TONS of victims report being “frozen” by shock and fear and disbelief while being assaulted or raped. It’s unbelievably common. Hell, the one time (I’m lucky this is all I’ve ever suffered) a guy palmed my entire undercarriage (he went under my skirt from behind while I was standing at a bar) I was too shocked to move or do anything or speak until he was well away. And I’m the woman who bawls out catcallers and racists on the street all the time–no shrinking violet.
Normal human reaction.
Update: or, what Sam said, above, about being groped and frozen. (Sorry that happened to you, Sam.)
I really feel like he’s trying so hard to be a good and thoughtful person, but he was never given the right guidance and security or love by his family. He tries so hard to make things right…he really is a lost soul. I like him. Always have.
He was a good person imo. And he’s still a talented actor.
I think he’s fallen in with the warped hollywood/artsy mindset. It’s not rational. I don’t think he knows what rape really means. I think he misuses words to inflate emotions. I think he’s very misguided.
I also think he’s an adult and should act like one. A social art installation is such an out there idea to say he’s sorry. It’s not rational thought. He’s surrounded himself with likeminded people in his world. If you disagree he attacks you for your views not matching and supporting his.
Gia
Normally I let it go when people say they like someone. It’s their opinion. I just can’t here. He’s again using rape incorrectly. He’s belittling the act of hate, ignorance, and violence.
But i’m sure in his mind he justifies it as true. Power, security, and free will aren’t all negated when the curtain closes and the paper bag stays on his head. There’s no excuse. He may not have liked it, but he allowed it rather than break character for his exhibit.
His performance art was sadomasochistic. Now he claims violation? Sounds like the brain of my special needs chihuahua. Hope Shia gets some cause and effect training.
I wonder if Shia is messed up because something happened to him when he was a child actor like the Coreys as this does seem to happen in Hollywood. Something is not right with him. All his interviews have been strange from years back.
I… I don’t know what to say and I don’t want to sound insensitive because that woman raped him and it makes me nauseated. But… it’s like he was raped in the name of art? I can’t look past that. I don’t want to victim blame and I don’t know the scenario and clearly getting raped wasn’t the point of the exhibit but he said people were standing there waiting in line. How does this happen? It was allowed to continue because of art???? Rape as art??? Pondering this is making me feel sick.
This is my thought, too. Why the hell wouldn’t you stop the whole thing to protect yourself? It’s weird enough about the whipping, etc, but I just can’t fully wrap my brain around most of this.
@Cali
This is what makes it so complicated. Was he truly overwhelmed at what was happening and didn’t react because he was traumatized or did he think, “Heck, this will make headlines, let’s just let this happen”. ?
If it was for “art”, he needs to hear why people are angry and a year’s worth of therapy at least. He’s messed up.
No one (even if they are a blinding idiot) deserves what that woman did to him, so I hope she is caught and charges are pressed. Who wants that sexual predator on the streets?
Also, since the people in the line knew about this…it’s still a crime, you’re not exempt from helping a human in need, even with a messed up person who says “Never mind, I’m okay, it’s for art”. WTH?
And lastly, if this was a PR stunt and he hired her…there are no words. BUT I think it’s legitimate and I hope he gets help. This whole story is just awful and I hope he takes the time to heal from it.
Oh, please. I just don’t believe it. No, not because he’s a man. Because while he wasn’t allowed to say anything, he was allowed to react or do something/anything of his own volition.
I question it because of who he has shown himself to be over the years. That is all. He has a sketchy history and I question his ability to tell the truth due to either mental illness or because he is simply a jerk. There are details that don’t add up. Why was there no security to protect him from any kind of harm? Why would the gallery allow it? To put themselves in such a position of liability doesn’t make sense to me. Imagine if he had been seriously injured in a life-threatening manner? I get the idea that he wanted to make himself vulnerable but that is all the more reason for the gallery to put certain safety protocols in place.
However, it is also possible he was allowed to put himself in a dangerous situation and his mental illness prevented him from stopping the whole mess. The woman took advantage of him and that was wrong. In this context, I can see why he wouldn’t have said anything before or why he didn’t go to the police.
In regards to personal harm/injury, a simple no-liability waiver would take care of that. The original inspiration for his exhibit, Rhythm 0 by Marina Abramovic, contained a table of objects which could inflict pleasure or pain, including a gun and a single bullet. One main loaded the gun and pointed it at the artist, but the crowd intervened. So, I assume there is a legal way around that issue.
HH
Wasn’t there also gasoline and matches? I think I remember reading the gasoline was used. She was never lit though (obviously). An the bullet was loaded with multiple bullets.
In an interview she said she was ready to die if that’s what happened.
By the end she was soaked in tears, blood, and sweat. Rhythm 0 imo was an extreme, but interesting experiment. It really demonstrated the variations of human nature, packs and individuals.
Shia’s version was a budget version.
I don’t believe it either. I think the whole story is, in his mind, some sort of extension to the exhibit. From what I understand, the exhibit was all about him letting strangers enter the room and have complete control of the situation, whether it was through props, actions, or conversation. What he describes could be considered the ultimate way to take control away from the subject behind the “I am no longer a celebrity” brown bag. His story does what artwork is meant to do: evoke feelings and get people thinking/talking. Shia is often socially inappropriate, so there’s no proof that he wouldn’t say such an egregious lie. It’s known that his antics and attitude have earned him the dislike of many in the industry. Rationally and logistically, this story smells funny….and the fact that it comes from Shia LaBeouf doesn’t help the credibility.
Well, this would go a long way to explaining his wilder behaviours of late. It’s very common for victims of sexual assault to act out, drink, get angry, self-harm (for physically and psychically). Makes me sad for him.
agreed
I have thought this guy needed help for a long time and this just confirms it.
He’s looking better now. He looks clean.
Wtf! It’s all just to strange to comprehend. Some mental health issues? And his gf has always seemed a bit off too.
If an artist chooses to invite all expressions of human behavior, this couldn’t be construed as “rape”. This was a “please trespass” sign and consensual by omission of any “rules” .
This is a tough situation for me to form a solid opinion on. On one hand it sounds like this woman took advantage of him and wanted to see how far she could push him, but on the other he put himself out there and did an exhibit where he opened that door and gave people the opportunity to do or say whatever they wanted, yes he could’ve stopped it but he obviously has mental problems and gets very into his method acting, so I can see why he wouldn’t stop her, in a way. I don’t know what to think here.
Your post kind of reads like “Well, he kind of asked for it.”
Just because a person puts themselves out there doesn’t give another person to breach boundaries set by the law and common decency. Of course it is best to NOT put yourself into a situation where you could be vulnerable, because there are always people who jump at the chance to abuse and get away with it, but either way the blame is on the rapist and the rapist only.
Also, some people fight assailants off. I do that, I have a hypperreactive fight instinct to the point where I might just end up dead because aggression usually begets aggression and me at my 5’2ft and 105lbs am not a formidable foe. Others freeze up, because that too is a reaction to an assault that may ensure survival. Which is what might’ve happened, because honestly, how many men have ever thought that they could be raped? It takes by a surprise, it’s horrifying, it’s not supposed to happen to you! But it does. And all you can do is to sit here in a frozen state that you can’t quite explain.
Don’t ever judge the victim, please. Even if they did act in an irresponsible way. They did not violate someone’s person nor break the law.
edit: you can also argue that he gave consent by inviting people to perform any human behaviour on him. I’d find it very callous though, and that’s a big deal for me because I’m usually in the role of a callous f-ck who completely disregards other peoples’ feelings.
Yes it does sort of read like that, I didn’t intend for it to come off like I was blaming him, this whole situation is just confusing and strange. I read more about the exhibit and he didn’t speak but he did give permission for a few people to take pictures or he took the bag off if someone asked, which makes me more curious as to why he wouldn’t stop this woman, but like you said maybe his reaction was shock and he froze. I realized if the situation were reversed and this happened to a woman I’d be outraged, so regardless of Shia’s mental health or his reasoning behind doing this exhibit I should be outraged for him as well, nobody deserves to be treated like that.
I may not be saying this as eloquently as I could be, but there is an element of fear, shock, and surprise, that stuns people and they physically freeze up. So many people like to say – well why didn’t s/he fight back? ” *I* would have done this and fought,” but everyone responds differently in a situation. So I don’t think it’s fair to Shia or other victims to say that that their experiences weren’t rape or sexual abuse, because of how the victim responded. Think of the Juice/Marilyn Manson rape scene in Sons of Anarchy – Juice was still a victim even if he didn’t physically fight him off.
Yeah–this “I would have done this” is classic just-world fallacy thinking. Classic.
I have written something similar before seeing your comment.
That is me you are describing: I get freezed in those kind of situations mostly catcalling and stuff like that, thank God I’ve never been assaulted. It’s not a beautiful feeling because after you feel like a coward, but you were unable to move.
yup.
People have to realize that oftentimes the victim of a rape shuts down and it feels very much like those bad dreams where you can’t run or talk–your limbs are frozen and your screams come out a muffled squeak. Read more accounts. Read Amanda Marcotte’s account. This happens a lot. Please stop with the “why didn’t the victim stop the assault”; it’s not that cut and dried!
May explain why he has been so messed up lately? Know a man that hid his rape for years because he was ashamed to report it, men tend to under-report rape & never talk about it. Afterwards he had substance abuse issues & even had some violence problems. A normal, good guy before it happened. Men don’t report this stuff & are probably just as stunned its happening as women. Why should we expect men to behave any different than women after rape? So they don’t fight back & because of shame don’t report it. Feel for him & hope he does end up bringing some legal action. Really ladies do you know men who would report something like this?
I agree.
This. Never. Happened.
Let’s look at this logically: He’s sexually assaulted by a woman whose boyfriend conveniently stays outside the door. This man, with a history of drugs, violence and grossly eccentric behavior, puts up no resistance. Says it “was bad” for The Boyfriend Outside The Door, but never mentions having spoken with him to get The Boyfriend’s opinion. (How does Shia know it’s a boyfriend?… Did his rapist mention it, as in “Oh, by the way, my boyfriend is waiting for me. He’s just outside.”) Pfffft.
His rapist then totters out, in front of hundreds, with her messed up hair and lipstick. None of the patrons who saw her mention a thing to Shia. Or to venue security. Or the police. Shia speaks of the assault in interviews, but has yet to talk to law enforcement. He paints himself a rape survivor to the press…but not to the police.
Not. Buying. It.
And, oh yeah, gives a passing reference to spending months “watching horses die.” Also Not Buying It.
He’s either lying or he’s delusional. Or both.
Now THAT I’ll buy.
If his exhibit was something like Marina’s or Yoko Ono’s before that, it could have happened and because of the privacy the closed doors provided, quite easily.
He didn’t get raped in the name of art or authenticity. He was raped as a result of human depravity.
Why didn’t anyone do anything? Because they didn’t know what she did. All they saw was a woman who came out with mussed hair and smeared lipstick. Why didn’t he do anything? Probably because the point of the exhibit was humanity, and the rape happened gradually, as the rapist pushed boundaries to see how Shia would respond. I’d guess that he was stunned that she would take it so far and was trying to process it all.
I don’t get Marina’s type of art (and Yoko Ono, too, the one where she provided scissors and a gun!). I don’t know what they are/were trying to do and prove. Doesn’t mean I blame them when they get assaulted in the middle of their work.
That’s why this type of art, performance art, is weird…and risky. Because the point is that the artist is exploring how far humanity will go when given carte blanche consent to do anything to the artist.
That’s a good point, how did he know her boyfriend was upset? I’m curious about that. And i didn’t get the horses dying part…I mean surely they don’t actually use real dying horses in movies anymore?!?!?!!? I’m really confused.
Thank you for one of the most reasonables and cohesive responses in this thread. As a human rights lawyer who has advised UN Women for many cases regarding sexual exploration crimes (mostly in wartime), I find it utterly disgusting that this individual is trying to present himself as “rape survivor”, and the fact that some people are putting it akin to when woman AND men (yes, it happens many times and contrary to popular belief, the percertange of reported cases are actually higher than woman. Which is quite interesting from a merely statistic point) are blame for the violation of their bodies when they are in a “powerless position and the perpetuator has sexual intercourse without their will” is the most laughable thing I could have read online. Here there are none gender, sexism and consent issues, it’s only common sense. Just from a legal standpoint, there is simply no case that even a person with superficial knowledge of law can no that there cannot be any conviction out of this. I’ll explain myself: Firstly, and please this is not victim blaming (when will people learn use the proper connotation of this?) as he did engage in whatever this was (I remember that the installation where Marina did this sort of thing, though a private space, had security cameras as a precaution if some deranged mind trespass the rules) with fully understanding of all the repercussions. So yes, and I”l repeat it: it’s not because he didn’t complain as there can be rape even if you just lay there and someone comes and hurts you, it’s because he had agree in this performance. A rape occurs when someone either phisically or mentally goes against your will. Only and if only he can prove that he was in a numb state (which is extremely hard to prove as biologically your mind doesn’t shut it’s self) or if you have a mental illness. But from the moment he agree on this, he exploted his personal integrity and by signing on it he is already implying that he consents (as crazy as it sounds) that. His actions afterwards prove it. Any court would dismissed it, and that is why he didn’t report it.
So having stated that, from a personal view I find horrifying that someone would let a complete stranger to do their wish with you in the name of art. Maybe if you are trying to prove human idiotecy and how humans feel entitled to commit atrocities, but even there I would suggest to LaBeauf to go and get psychiatric help (maybe in that scenery he can press charges saying that because of mental fragility he was deceived by this gallery and got abuse. That is more realistic though still to prove it would be improbable as he seems to have had concience of the supposed act). This is masochist behavior and I’ll never understand what they want achieve with this. Such stupidity, and sometimes I think as many have mention that he in a desperate attempt for publicity, decided to shake things up and in his hipster way try to use rape as an stunt act. It would not be a surprise at all.
I just hope the so called progressive press doesn’t turn this on a sexual abuse case. That would be a new low.
I think this is an extremely well thought out and articulate view of this story. I am very, very disturbed by the constant arguing between commenters over who endured the worse trauma and therefor should be the final say in how this is interpreted. The term “victim blaming” seems to have become the new “slut shaming”. People are terrified of asking questions for fear of being a victim-blamer, which brings on a whole new set of issues. First and foremost, I do understand sexual violence both personally and as a focus of my profession. I get the physical freezing, the fear of saying anything or fighting back. While it disgusts me people would behave in such a manner, they were given permission to do so. They were provided the tools to inflict that pain. At some point Shia made a conscious decision to allow weapons to be placed in a private area with no regulation, no protection, and explicit instructions for complete strangers to do what they like. People he had never met, who may have had serious mental illness, communicable diseases, a deathwish, etc. When someone hangs a sign that literally says “Do anything”, one cannot be surprised when it brings out the dark side of humans, however wrong that might be. There was an active, willful encouragement for depravity to be carried out. When I first heard of this stunt, I was sure this would happen day 1. Accepting this story without question is harmful to all abuse survivors, because in this instance, he truly, honestly gave unflinching permission. How that affected him when the time came is unfortunate, but I think it minimizes the experience of trauma survivors. Should we expect more from our fellow humans? absolutely. Should we test that in real life? Of course not.
What is it with this guy? He is a fruit loop.
I 100% know that men can experience rape and sexual assault. Did he say no? I would ask the same question if this were a woman.
I agree with what was written above. He could press charges, sure, but the charges would never hold up in court.
Regardless of how wrong and disturbing it is what that woman did, SL could have defended himself, yet did absolutely nothing. Art project or not, he should have stopped her. Tried to stop her, what have you.
I cannot believe people are buying this. He is a KNOWN liar and a plagiarist. He is KNOWN for his stunts. This just stinks to high heaven.
If it IS true my heart aches for him, as I am also a survivor. I just don’t believe him… and I won’t be back to this thread because I know I will get attacked for my opinion on this. *sighs*
This. As I said upthread, this is really marginalizing and mocking actual rape victims, male and female.
+1000.
It blows my mind that (almost) everybody here believes him. The guy is a pathological liar and will do ANYTHING for attention.
Yep. Liar. And seeing him wearing that sweater makes me wanna punch him in the face. My husband owns a few of those sweaters. That’s not a novelty USMC “I support the troops” kind of military sweater. That’s the sweater they actually give Marines. Real Marines. AND HE DOESN’T FKN RATE! And yes that bothers me the most about this whole post because I think he’s a liar and a poser and a total narcissistic fraud that believes his own hype.
I agree. He’s pulled this narccissistic behavior before. In a way he reminds me of Kanye. He’s a genius and we just don’t get his ART.
And we’re walking a fine line. In rape cases of all sorts the victim’s past shouldn’t negate any evidence of the incident. If they claimed rape before, but have mountains of proof they were actually raped (including video and taped confessions for example) it should be about that. Not putting the victim on trial for past behavior.
In the case of Shia he’s proven himself to inflate the truth to full lies. He’s incorrectly used the term rape for things that merely upset him in a day to day fashion. IF he was truly raped I feel for him. I just very much doubt he was and will only use this claim as a way of method acting resource and self promotion of him being a hardcore ARTist. Any way you approach this. He had opportunity to end it. He had the power. He had all his faculties. Unless he really has such strong mental illness like we’re all coming to expect.
I call bull on this one. He seems incredibley unstable and reckless.
Spinning this sick tale is probably a continuation of his so called “performance art.” This guy is full of it, not to mention, out of his mind.
Yeah, he “joined the US National Guard”, played a solider and then went back to his rich life of celebrity. You know what would be cool Shia? If you would join army and still would be there, proving what kind of man you are. And not just ‘play in army”.
Yeah, we know he didn’t “join the National Guard.” Unless by “joining” you mean hanging around in the same place with a group of people.
And lied about how long he hung around, where he was, and what he actually did. To hear him tell it in several interviews I thought he was in the thick of actual combat. Not a few weeks here and there shadowing training with mild participation.
Truth always comes out.
I’m very surprised he didn’t intervene and tell her to stop, but given some of his behavior (which hints at possible mental health issues) and the context it occurred in, I can see how he might not have been in a position of agency. Human beings can be disgusting – who thinks that is even remotely acceptable?
Acceptable it is not. It’s morally reprehensible but both conducts. To say there was rape is another thing altogether.
He didn’t ask for it and didn’t have a sign saying “you can rape me”. Wondering what the public did in all of this? Just sit and watch the assault happen?
If he had a sign saying that it wouldn’t be rape at all.
OK, I guess I am missing something here. Please don’t kill me, but why didn’t he stop her? As far as I know he was not tied up and she did not have a weapon. He is not a young innocent, was not drugged, nor does he seem the type to be intimated or threatened. He would sit there and let a woman sexually assault him, but would he just sit there and let someone stab him or put a gun to his head? All in the name of an art exhibit? Where would he draw a line?
What that woman did was disgusting and it should not have happened. But, like I said, I am guess I am missing something here because I don’t understand why he didn’t stop her.
Jane
Sorry for late reply. Bored and doing rounds here.
That’s the big issue here. He had security. A curtain between him and safety. He was lucid and was not bound.
IMO this is possibly why he didn’t stop her. he was in his exhibt. While in there he would relinquish power and be at another’s mercy. He willingly made himself vulerable to the will of another and would not resist no matter what.
As it’s been stated here Marina A’s original exhibit (and a Yoko one) is what he was mimicing. Only he didn’t put himself in a room without protection and dangerous devices that could end his life in a moment. He put a paper bag over his head.
Long comment short I guess. He could have quicky and easily stopped it at any point, but that would be against what he wanted to accomplish in his exhibit.
Yes, the answer is right there.
The rest of the feelings, emotions, fears, etc., are people’s own projections onto him. The purpose of the art installation was to explore, and take, what people would do to him given wide consent and props. That’s it. That’s all we know.
First time poster here. Sometimes the public do just watch. There was a case here in the UK, many years ago, where a woman was raped by a man in a large park, with people walking by who did nothing to stop it from happening even as she she screamed for help.
Now, here we have a man who has put himself in a public gallery, taking part in a public display of “art”. “Art” can be anything to the artist and the observer can be none the wiser. Did he invite someone to whip and then engage sexually with him? How can the public know that? All they know is that they can file past and watch. Should they intervene if he looks to be being assaulted? is it “art”?
I think Shia is in a vulnerable place and that the people who should be looking after him haven’t been/have been fired and that his adrenaline response was to freeze, rather than to go into fight or flight. If this had been a vulnerable woman we’d be incensed. It’s a vulnerable man and we’re still asking why he didn’t fight her off. Equality schmality, this vulnerable young man was assaulted in public, no-one knew how to react because “art”, and now the woman who assaulted him (who would appear to have been enabled by the presence of her partner, so two people were involved) will get away with it. Was there security footage that can track her down?
Are you guys serious?! This FALSE OUTRAGE is contributing to why feminism and women’s issues are not taken seriously. He put an art exhibit over his own well-being for attention. He gave consent to “anything” and then has the audacity to call it rape? No. This is ridiculous. Art is a creative hobby, an expression one’s self. It is NOT so serious that you should allow yourself to be abused rather than stop it. This is not like intoxicated date rape, or child molestation. So stop with that bullshit. All ya’ll having a pity party for him are infuriatingly obtuse.
He’s a famous guy and I’m certain if a woman “raped him” we would have heard about it. This is the age of camera phones FFS – there was a line of voyeurs
Shia has a pattern of making artsy/disturbing/druggy type statements. What he describes sound s like fiction.
IF something of this nature did happen- this was invited as sadomasochistic exhibitionism. I agree we need to feel more sorry for his delusional thinking than for his supposed violation.
Recording devices might have been taken while viewing. It happens often. Still. I’d imagine it would have been talked about i it happened.
This is weird and sad. I don’t know if it happened or not. It wouldn’t surprise me either way.
As I understand it, Shia is not a well person and I could see him taking the sexual abuse without moving, frozen. A mentally healthy person might have immediately told her to stop once things got aggressive, but maybe he couldn’t do that. I picture his thoughts buzzing tunelessly and fast about commitment to art and negative ideation. And she took his silence as consent, affirming the invitation.
On the other hand, I could see Shia spinning out a woman merely grabbing his junk into a full on rape story, maybe even believing it himself.
I hope he gets the help he needs.
I HIGHLY recommend that anyone confused about the exhibit read the text that accompanies the 61 minute interview in Dazed. Here’s the link: http://thecampaignbook.com/interview/ It’s a pretty interesting read. LaBeouf describes in fair detail how the exhibit worked. There weren’t tons of people standing around watching him get raped. He was in an area and the ONE BY ONE people who were in line to see the exhibit were brought behind a curtain and spent 10+ minutes with him. The well he tells it, most people just sat with him, or held his hand, or just co-existed with him. The particular woman came into the curtain with her boyfriend and after physically assaulting him for a while, rapes him.
I believe he was raped if for no other reason than he had sex with someone without his explicit consent. Blanket consent to do anything to you is not consent. I’d also be VERY interested in seeing the contract he signed to do this exhibit. There must be a ton of disclaimers and protections in place as well as clauses regarding waivers if someone harmed him. Again, not that he consented to the harm but just what would happen in the event that he were harmed.
But yes I believe he was raped and that, along with past abusive experiences he has had at an early age, go a long way in explaining his behavior. Hope he gets help.
Troubled soul indeed. I, too, have read stories of his abuse as a child-outrageous. I hope that Shia continues to stay sober, and that he gets the therapy and emotional support he needs to, for example, avoid self harm.
This in no way excuses the behavior of the woman, which amounted to sexual assault. Whether she could be tried and convicted is a different question; a question that many women face after being assaulted as Shia was. @ Maxine 7-thank you for exploring the issue of consent. That is often the main issue tried in many rape cases.
Exactly. Think about the cases that are tried involving women who are intoxicated. The whole point of those cases is that these women have been raped because they were unable to consent. But the key is that they DID not consent because they could not consent because they were intoxicated. Shia says he did not consent. Whether he could have is almost irrelevant. Something happened to him sexually that he did not authorize. He did not agree to participate in the sexual encounter and more importantly it was undesirable to him and therefore he was raped.
What does James Art Franco have to say about this? I’m not forming an opinion until I have his input on the matter.