So far, all we’ve heard about Bruce Jenner’s transition has been second hand. Jenner has not personally spoken out yet, although mainstream celebrity outlets like People and US Magazine have run cover articles about this using unnamed sources. We’s also heard that Jenner will do an interview with Diane Sawyer in May in which he will package an announcement that he’s transgender with the launch of a new reality series, filming now, which chronicles his journey. (Note: we will refer to Jenner by the female pronoun and by Jenner’s preferred name when and if Jenner expresses a preference.)
May is a full three months away and Jenner’s delay in making an announcement isn’t sitting well with some members of the transgender community. Transgender activist Zoey Tur, a helicopter newa reporter and correspondent for Inside Edition, spoke to TMZ about why many transgender people are suspicious of Bruce’s motivations. Here’s what she said and you can see the video on TMZ’s site:
“A lot of people are very suspicious of what’s going on because of the connection with the Kardashians. They feel that if Bruce is transgender, come out with it. Speak up. We have a 42% suicide attempt rate, six times the national average on suicide. We need our role models and there’s no greater role model than the world’s greatest athlete. What’s the big deal? Many feel that Jenner is pitching a reality show and using this buildup to gain more momentum and get paid to do an interview. They don’t like it because this is a civil rights battle. This is not about selling TV show. This is about saving lives.
“Harvey Milk said that it was really important for gays and lesbians to come out to their families, to their friends and coworkers because that’s how we’re going to gain acceptance. With the transgender community we’re about 30 years behind the gay and lesbian community. We need our role models. This is a public health crisis. So Bruce, come out. How much money do you need?”
That was very articulate and well said. Tur certainly helped me understand why this could be viewed negatively by transgender people. With the Kardashians, it’s hard to take them seriously when everything is so orchestrated for cash and ratings. A source tells TMZ however that Jenner is carefully timing the announcement to make sure his daughters are old enough to deal with the fallout, and that it’s not about the upcoming reality series. “He’s still going through the motions and wants to take his time to help his youngest daughters cope. It’s not about a TV show or announcement.”
People magazine has a more positive outlook on Jenner’s change. They interviewed transgender author Jennifer Finney Boylan, who wrote She’s Not There: A Life in Two Genders. Boylan discussed her own journey and how her over 25 year marriage changed and evolved. She also wished Jenner well. “I wish Jenner strength and love on this journey, and I hope whatever Jenner goes through not only helps Jenner but all of the rest of us.”
Speaking of skepticism of the Kardashian narrative, TMZ has a follow up story about the claim that Kris was blindsided by Bruce’s announcement to her and the family. They say that she knew for years he was transitioning and tried to keep it under wraps. I can see that. I can also see her blanching at Bruce’s insistence that he’s going to go public and cut her out of the production of his show.
In terms of the fatal car crash that Jenner was involved with on Saturday, TMZ has the news that he has hired a lawyer. It’s been speculated that he was driving too closely to the car he rear-ended, the driver of whom was subsequently hit by a larger vehicle and killed, but it’s unlikely he’ll be prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter. Law enforcement has possession of the four cars involved in the accident and a forensics team will use each car’s computer “black box” data to try to reconstruct the accident. Apparently these black boxes “gauge what the driver was doing for the 5 seconds before impact. In one-second intervals, the boxes show speed, braking, the position of the accelerator, etc.” Production of the reality show has not been affected by Jenner’s accident.
Photo credit: FameFlynet and Getty Images
Can someone explain to me how someone can cause an accident for whatever reason, someone gets killed and he faces no consequences (Civil lawsuits excluded)? So you get only charged if you were drunk? Or on the phone?
I don’t know, generally, but I read that there was a car in front of the white car that stopped abruptly and that car caused the chain reaction. Also, it appeared that Bruce had swerved while braking, in an attempt to avoid hitting the car in front of him. It doesn’t really sound like he’s at fault, even though his car was the one that hit the car with the fatality.
Unfortunately, some people don’t want to hear that part. Most articles I read are about a 3 car accident, forgetting to add the 4th that started the whole thing.
I said this once already, but I rear-ended someone once. We were stopped at a light, and traffic started up. A driver came flying up to my left and nearly hit my car. I looked away for two seconds and traffic in front of me stopped and I plowed right into the guy in front of me. No one was hurt and I was not going very fast, but I did $5000 damage to the front of my car. Was it my fault? Yes. I guess it was. But my insurance company said it wasn’t, and my insurance didn’t go up. I asked my agent why and she said it was ruled a no fault accident. I was obviously right behind him, not two car lengths.
My point is that accidents happen. Tragic, horrible accidents, where one person makes a split second decision and causes an accident. Or, as i did, they just react, not even having time to make a decision. Do we put all of these people in jail? Should I be in jail if I had pushed his car into the intersection and he had been killed?
I think everybody should drive responsibly and stay far enough back from the car in front of them. Especially when hauling something heavy. But I know from personal experience that you can have the best intentions in world and still cause an accident. Maybe I’m not being hard enough on him, but unless we know the facts of what happened, and it’s proved that he was doing something careless or irresponsible or illegal (right now all we have is it “appears” he was following too closely) I don’t understand this call for his head. Intentions matter. If I’m talking on a hand held or texting while driving, I’m knowingly distracted. That should be punished. But if I unintentionally, accidentally cause an accident, I’m glad the people on here aren’t deciding my fate.
Same here. I hit an elderly couple that was going 20 mph in a 70 mph zone. They were just really old and I guess thought they could toodle along in the fast lane at any speed. I came over a little hill I couldn’t see over and bam. I got a reckless driving ticket because in my state if you hit someone while you’re going 55 or more it’s automatic, no matter what. The fact that they were driving so slow it was a hazard was no matter. I hit them, so it’s my fault. I couldn’t have stopped in time, and though I tried to swerve and miss them, I just wasn’t fast enough. We were all ok but it was really scary and I was shaken up for a long time.
Again, I agree that accidents happen. However, you can’t be lax with that type of weight and a monstrosity of a vehicle. I can tell you, unequivocally, that I would leave an enormous amount of space, if I was driving what he was driving plus hauling. The idea of potentially killing someone would be on my mind constantly.
I’m not calling for any particular sanctions or charges at all, perhaps a moving violation is in order (IF he wasn’t back far enough, IF). I just think that when people continue to minimize the death-power inherent in these machines and say, ‘it was only an accident’, then this perpetuates a laissez-faire indifference to the added responsibility one should have in driving these vehicles, box trucks, semis, SUVs, and so on.
The really scary vehicle in this story is the hummer. NO ONE needs a hummer as a daily driver. Bruce did not start the chain reaction and tried to avoid hitting the car. Had the sedan hit another sedan everyone would have walked away. It’s these tanks on the streets that scare me.
Birdie, If he is determined by the police after their investigation to be at fault for the accident, he will be charged. There are a number of traffic violations on the books ranging from failure to maintain a safe distance, careless or reckless driving, all the way up to vehicular manslaughter. At this time, the police are still investigating.
It should also be noted that like most news stories that facts come out over the course of time that can change initial perceptions. The latest news stories are citing sources that do not place the blame for the accident on Bruce Jenner. It appears that the first car in the chain stopped abruptly at least 300 ft from the intersection for some reason. Then the car with the woman driver who was killed hit the back of that car with Bruce Jenner then rear ending her causing the car to be pushed into oncoming traffic where she was killed after colliding with a Hummer. If that situation is correct then the 1st driver is at fault for the accident & injuries/death and the only thing Bruce Jenner would likely be charged with is failure to maintain a safe or proper distance. That warrants a fine and points against his license.
Currently the investigation is trying to determine why the 1st car stopped so far back from the intersection. I have read speculation that the driver may have been trying to do an illegal uturn on a very busy strip of road. If so, that is incredibly dangerous and could lead to serious charges. However, at this time, that is merely speculation.
Thank you for more information.
I keep thinking about what one poster said about the victim, that her death was so violent. She hit a vehicle, was rear-ended by a vehicle, then struck by a vehicle, all in the space of 6 seconds. It’s so awful, she must have been terrified. I hope her passing was mercifully quick.
I read this morning that the first car might have stopped to make a u-turn for a parking space. Also the woman driving the 1st car and the woman who died were driving w/out a license.
Because these things are often messy. It looks like 3 of the drivers involved here were all to blame in some way. The Prius driver stopped suddenly and unexpectedly and for possibly an illegal reason (illegal u-turn). The Lexus driver (the deceased) hit the Prius driver, so she was obviously not able to stop in time which means she was not maintaining a safe distance. Jenner then hit her after trying to swerve, and her car was pushed into another lane and hit by the Hummer driver, who so far does not appear to be at fault.
Of all 3 it’s quite possible Jenner was least at fault even though it was his car that pushed her’s into the wrong lane. It seems he made a split second decision to try and avoid hitting her by getting past her. That may have been the wrong decision here, but it’s not necessarily the wrong thing to do generally and he wasn’t driving dangerously. The fact that he employed some defensive driving maneuvers would suggest he was fully focused and reacted fast, just not in a way that helped in this particular situation.
This accident seems to have a lot to do with the particular stretch of road. If Bruce and the Hummer driver had been able to swerve without having to worry about driving their car over a cliff-face things may have gone very differently.
Another fact The Lexus driver hasn’t had a valid driver’s license since 2007.Why was she driving without licence?
Kim1, that is not fully true and should not be repeated as fact.
She didn’t have a CALIFORNIA driver’s license, but she also had a home out of state and may have had a license there.
Because they are accidents. Unless he was doing something wrong or illegal……It also seems that this particular part of the PCH is a nightmare with everyone doing everything right. And, there’s the matter of the Prius that was in front of the Lexus stopped 300 feet back from the red light. CNN was saying that the Lexus was going to hit the Prius regardless of Bruce. Every single thing doesn’t require prosecution and jail time. Accidents happen.
If she HAD hit the Prius first, I wonder if it would have inhibited the flip, since she would have been wedged in.
Kiddo, I read that they though that the Lexus driver may have swerved to the right to avoid rear ending the Prius or even to pass it. That would have put her facing into traffic and then being hit Jenner pushed her into the other lane.
That would be swerving to the left. If she had swerved to the right, in the same direction that Bruce did, I would think her car would end up parallel to his, or hitting the Prius on its right side?
Not parallel but crossways or pushed forward rather than to the left.
@Kiddo, yes, sorry, swerving to the left. I am Left/right challenged. Seriously.
Having worked in a legal prosecution office I can tell you that each case is unique. They won’t press any charges until the investigation is done. It will involve every single facet of information they can ascertain including the black box information, witnesses, the victim’s autopsy, the police photos on scene, etc. Every vehicular manslaughter case I dealt with were hundreds of pages in length. You also have to take into account the laws for that county in California. But as you mentioned, even if nothing is done or if the results aren’t satisfactory to the victim’s family in criminal court they can file a civil lawsuit.
I feel like the media should just leave him alone at this point. Call me gullible but I feel like PMK has nothing to do with the crazy press over Bruce (I also feel you you guys give that whole family too much credit in the ~mastermind scheming~ this family is capable of). Even though I can see where Ms. Tur is coming from on her criticism of Bruce, I really hate it when people try to force others out of the closet – unless this is really all for that ratings and money for his reality show, which I cant remember has been officially confirmed by not.
Im giving Bruce the benefit of the doubt and 2015 is off to a rough start for him, I wish him the best.
Bruce should do whatever makes him happy. But what I want to know is does this mean that Bruce has been gay or bisexual all these years or did Kris Jenner just emasculate him? After the transition will he date men/women or remain asexual?
From what I’ve read, he has always been and is still attracted to women.
I’ve wondered this too. At what point did he want to transition? It didn’t happen over night, so have his marriages been a lie? I read a while back that Kris Kardashian pimped him out to male clients. Now seeing him go through all of this I wonder if this was put to him as a way to appease his gay needs with her finding a way to profit off it – I can totally see this. I feel sorry for him. He seems emotionally fragile and somehow broken. I have no proof – but I chalk it up to Kris. She’s evil.
JenniferJustice, you’re seriously confused as to how this works. Sexual orientation is not the same thing as gender identity. And being a woman does not require being sexually attracted to men. I mean, I assume you know this but you’re having a difficult time applying it to trans people. If Bruce Jenner is a trans woman, his “gay” needs were being taken care of by his sexual/romantic relations with other women. If he identifies as a woman, and he is only sexually attracted to women, that right there is gay. If he identifies as a woman and has desires for men, those desires would be straight.
Think about Chaz Bono as an example, when presenting as a woman he identified as a lesbian and dated women. After transitioning, still dates women but now the “straight” label applies.
(How any of this applies to Jenner exactly will be a mystery until he decides to share, but your basic misunderstanding – thinking that transitioning changes who you are attracted to, not merely the label applied to your attraction – seems to be common so I thought it worth clarifying.)
Well… I know there is just always going to be a level of dubiousness due to the Kardashian link… BUT: I really hate when people “should” all over someone else. “Bruce *should* tell his story already,” “Bruce *should* speak out,” “Bruce *should* be dressing as a woman by now.” That kind of sh!t really gets under my skin. Especially since it’s clear Bruce is going through a very delicate process. And sometimes it’s difficult to tell a story when you’re in process and the ending is unclear/ambiguous. Bruce himself may not be sure where he will land on the gender spectrum.
What’s the rush? If he tells his story now or in May, we understand that he is going to be speaking publicly about it, so just let it happen, people!
*As a side note – both of the helicopter pilots, including Tur, who did the primary coverage of OJ Simpson’s infamous Bronco chase are transgender people. I just think that’s interesting. And presumably, they were both able to handle their transitions in their own way.
^^Plus 1000. There is no “should” about when you come out, when you talk about it, etc.
Co-sign
yep 100%
Perfect Post!!!
Agreed. I get why they don’t 100% believe this is genuine….I mean this family has a track record. But if this is true, would still like to hear from him before taking it as gospel, then he has the right to speak on his own timeline.
Tur “should” have come out ten or twenty years ago .She could have saved lives as well.It pisses me off when people call out other LGBT people.I remember Gay guys saying Anderson Cooper” should” have come out publicly years ago because he could have been a role model for Gay teens.Everyone’s journey is different.
Tur has said she knew Jenner was TG twenty years ago.Well Tur was also TG twenty years ago.She could have announced it after Bronco chase at the height of her fame.
Tur also pissed me off when she said the hormones Bruce is taking may explain Bruce’s detached demeanor at the accident scene.I have seen multiple interviews with Tur on TMZ,CNN, Inside Edition, not one has been positive regarding Bruce.
it pisses me off that, because she made this her choice, everyone should make their choice in her way. I’m hopeful and happy for Bruce to choose his own path in his own time. People of whatever sexual preference or appearance need to leave him alone for his possible “transitioning” plans.
This x 1 billion. Seriously I get so upset when people dictate how others should come to terms with things in their own lives. I think it was Kevin Spacey who basically said he did not broadcast his sexuality because he didn’t want to be part of a cause–he has a right to not be a part of it as much as someone has a right to be a part of it. And I think that’s only fair.
Agreed. When Sam Smith was on Ellen a few weeks ago she attempted to get him to plug for the LGBT community. He wasn’t having it. She asked him if he came out prior to his single being released so he would be known from the git as a “gay artist.” He said No, he never needed to come out. He was born gay and everybody has always known. He said he made it clear he was gay when his singles started taking off, because what he did not want was the public thinking he ever tried to hide it. He said, “I’m an artist. I happen to be gay.” I know everybody loves Ellen so much, but the fact is she does try to get her guests to push LGBT issues and it isn’t her place to do push anybody on anything. I loved that Sam saw though it and didn’t let her manipulate his sexual preference to further her agenda. He is the consumate professional and so polite and kind, but he didn’t budge. She tried to play it off, but looked kind of embarrassed.
It’s his decision to go public whenever he chooses. I can see Zoey’s point, but the idea of public pressure to come out with any personal and life-changing announcement gives me the creeps- even if the guy is pratically a kardashian.
I agree that he shouldn’t be pressured and that each person needs to make their own choices.
But I understand the frustration — he isn’t helping the small community that he is entering, a community that could use support given that people are **dying,** because he needs to profit from the change. It’s his choice, but it speaks volumes that he chooses profits over humanity, like all things Kardashian.
But we still don’t know for sure about Jenner profiting–that’s entirely speculation. And even if that is the case, it’s his right to share or not share his story as he likes. IMO.
Agree. He has to do it in his own time, and make sure his daughters are okay first. I don’t like the whole reality show aspect of it, but that’s his choice, too.
They are calling it a docu-series, do you think it will veer more toward documentary and less toward scripted ‘reality’ which cheapens everything?
Oh, I didn’t know that. Maybe they will keep it informative and us sensationalized, then. I hope so. I was picturing another Kardashian reality show.
I’m also thinking that docu-series is signalling something more serious that is a serious look at the process that promote more public understanding of gender issues? And, when you think about this, living with his desire to do this his entire life has got to make this an occasion to re-examine and re-interperet all his relationships?
I can fully understand the apprehension of the Trans community that this will turn into a circus performance, and ruin reputations, if the show goes the same route as the past shows.
Wow.
On one post, Angelina Jolie speaking out about sexual violence. Here, Bruce Jenner shilling for KUWTK instead of either being discreet and private or–were that his preference–an out, respectable voice for his (putative) future community.
Imagine if Bruce Jenner had Angelina Jolie’s social consciousness…?
I get why Tur is not too happy about all of this.
It was also noted in the police report that he told them he was taking female hormones ( I guess you have to reveal any substances/medications?) So further confirmation and the most first person information.
! That’s big.
“Taking time to help his youngest daughters cope” Nice that Bruce is being a good parent in helping his daughters deal with this big change in their lives and the parent/child relationship But maybe at the same time Bruce can have a chat with Kylie about her dating a man almost ten years older with a child?
That whole statement is just hilarious. Since when has he cared about age-appropriateness with his daughters? Their whole upbringing has been a total failure in terms of appropriateness.
@ NewWester, claire: I said something similar downpost, just not as eloquent as either of you. I totally cosign with your comments.
With what he is currently going through , I really don’t think the public pressure will help.
He’ll let us know when he wants to if it’s even true. Seeing his picture on magazines and articles everyday about it must be a lot of pressure. Plenty of guys grow their hair long and don’t become women. I totally support him and hope he’s happy with his life
It’s not just that he has grown his hair long–his body and features have changed. And someone said upthread that he told police he was taking female hormones, which is a pretty big admission.
“Always leave them wanting more”, is the first rule of show business.
There’s plenty of money to be made from this and Bruce is probably contractually obligated to refrain from commenting about his anticipated sexual reassignment until the May interview.
Good point tippy, too many people are viewing this through the lens of social change, etc., but Jenner and the Kardashian’s are all show business, and the only color Hollywood worships is green, I don’t look to Hollywood for social commentary, social justice, etc,, i’d be happy if they could create some decent original entertainment. THat’s what they make their tens of millions on.
I agree, I smell a contractual obligation. I also suspect Kris has had some control over keeping the lid on this for a long time and she is not ready for the reveal yet.
Well, I do have a Transgender friend and….let’s just say she and her friends are giving Bruce the side eye. Just for the fact that this is all being played out for public spectacle.
Bruce is not on anyone’s timetable but his own. This accident muddies the water as well. I’m going to wait and see how this all shakes out before I get too invested in an opinion or position.
I would like to wait until I hear about “transition” from his mouth whenever he is good and ready instead of speculation.
I think he will face civil lawsuit soon, may not be charged criminally. It was an accident although I believe he was driving faster than speed limit, couldn’t stop in time when her car slowed in the front suddenly, IMO.
I read that the woman who died really didn’t have any family members, her husband preceded her in death and even her dog died. Curiously, she also didn’t have a valid driver’s license for the past 7-8 years. No charges against her, to that point, but she let it lapse, which is strange, itself.
I also read that it’s already been confirmed by the black box in the Escalade that Bruce was not speeding and was actually driving about 5 miles below the limit.
Speed is not the only thing to examine, Spacing, velocity, weight, acceleration, etc. You can be going the speed limit, but riding too close, where your ability to stop is compounded by that distance, and the weight of your vehicle.
Last point on this: Based on the characterizations of this road from people who drive on it, with the heavy pedestrian traffic, plus the traffic signal, maybe the local government should have conditional speed restrictions like those in place for schools. During operational hours or business, etc, the speed limit decreases to 20-25 mph. And adding signs warning of frequent and sudden stopping might make people more alert.
I also read that there was another collision in the same spot later the same day, while the police we still working on processing the accident scene.
Right in front of my workplace, there were two separate pedestrian accidents over a 6 week period, involving 3 people. One passed away. In addition, I have seen a couple of vehicular accidents. The light is too short, but no one in the city seems to be listening to complaints.
The woman that stopped 300 feet short of the red light caused all of this. She is the one who should be sued, right? If the police prove it was her fault, and Bruce is off the hook, she is the one that should be nailed in civil court.
I find it ironic that a ‘progressive’ community who supposedly values transgenders would be publicly critical of someone going through the process on his own time.
It’s not ironic. They fear history repeating itself, in that the show will be a sensationalized media whoring circus. If the show capitalizes for ratings and doesn’t take serious the vulnerable position that the transgendered have in society, then it could harm many by virtue of how they will be viewed through this prism. They want to be seen as humans and not ‘show spectacles’. If it has already leaked out about his hormone use and so forth, then he is holding off on revealing this epiphany, not for his own personal pacing on that revelation, but for building suspense for ratings. That is a valid concern.
Woah woah woah.
First of all please remove the quotes because that’s insulting as hell. They are a progressive community because they have no choice to be because as they mentioned a lot of their community members are DYING because of the strains of transitioning and public acceptance.
This isn’t a PR game to them. There are real life and death consequences they face and I understand their fear and doubt. Sorry whatever docu-series is happening has the Kardashian brand behind it and much like initial reports of this accident things involving Kardashian’s tend to go nuts when there’s issues behind the scenes.
Exactly.
I don’t blame the community.
I know everyone likes to think Bruce was this ‘aw shucks’ guy wrapped up in the evil Kris’s web, but I’ve met enough women like her to know their ‘poor sweet’ husbands were just a quieter version of the same mean. Much like with Khloe Bruce’s revelation is coming.
Honestly I’m more pleased to see Harvey Milk quoted. He was 100% true. Support for the gay community came when people stopped looking at them as an ‘other’. The reversal from the years 2010 vs. 2015 in terms of public support for gay marriage is amazing. There are still holdouts but few people feel the religion of a specific few should keep all those who seek it from getting the equal legal marriage that they seek. I can’t wait till its legal and supported in all 50 states! I also hope the transgender community is able to achieve the same breakthrough soon, hopefully on about the next 5 years. I know they face many barriers.
I don’t know him at all. I only know he had an association with the Ks, and how people speak of him, here.
I couldn’t care less if he wants to become a woman, it doesn’t impact my life at all, but is he doing it for the money he might make with his documentary?
I think we should respect anyone’s choice as he or she goes through a delicate transition. If anyone remotely private was in this situation I would argue forcefully that commenting on their decision and timeline is inappropriate.
In this case, I believe that Tur is entirely correct – not in applying pressure for Bruce to publicize the change, if it is true (as frankly it seems to be and we have all seen it for months)- but in saying that the way this is rumoured to be going down, in another KKK style reality crap show for money, demeans everyone in the transgender community and brings it all down to the level of circus.
As for the bs explanation that Bruce wants to break the news gently to his younger kids – would these be the kids prancing topless in fashion shows, posting selfies of their boobs and asses and trout pouts everywhere? The kids who are apparently blind to all the gossip mags and sites and entertainment news which have been speculating on the change for months? Oh those poor convent raised shy flowers. Yes, they must be told gently. (Eyeballs rolling on the floor.)
None of the actions of the girls that you outline would make it any easier to deal with a transgender parent making a transition. There is nothing indicating that the girls do not have a close relationship with their father. Even if they are little a**holes, he is still their father and they still have to deal with the change. Maybe the fact that they are little a**holes means that he needs to handle the transition with even greater care than if they were mature, well adjusted teenagers/young adults. Him wanting to go through the transition slowly, keeping in mind the feelings of his children, does not strike me as BS in any way, but instead is what any loving and concerned parent would do.
From the moment he made this decision he knew that this would be huge news. Not just because he was on KUWTK, but also because he is a world famous athlete who achieved amazing things in sport. The fact that he is (allegedly) going to address this on his own docu-series with no participation whatsoever by Kris Jenner says a lot to me. He could have done it on KUWTK, but apparently chose not to.
I don’t think doing a reality show demeans everyone in the transgender community. Did Chaz Bono’s docu-series demean the community?
My husband is a state trooper and investigates fatal accidents for a living. From the few pictures he saw of the accident scene it is clear to him that Jenner failed to control his speed – especially considering he was hauling something. He should be charged with vehicular manslaughter – he had no intent but his actions set in motion the events that led to that woman’s death. Of course, nothing will happen to him though…
In fact, it has been reported that police determined that Jenner was not speeding.
He was under the speed limit, and he was the third car in this pile-up so not the one who began the tragic chain of events.
Driving under the speed limit does not exonerate you of responsibility if you plow into some one. I don’t know the facts of this case but being under the speed limit does not equal a free pass in any accident.
The ‘trans community’ is not necessarily ‘the gay community’ and coming out as trans is very different than coming out as gay. Further, trans people generally are more tolerant of those trans people who choose not to come out. This is hype.
If you think Bruce is doing this for ratings or for publicity, I’d ask you to pause and consider all that it takes to transition, especially this late in life. It is not a stunt. No one would put themselves through transitioning as a stunt.
The downside of the modern love of all things LGBT is that so many people who know nothing about our choices, our cultures and our paths now act as allies while sticking their feet in their mouths.
The person who made the comment is a Trans activist, though. I believe that she said what she did, comparing the challenge to the gay community, was making reference to the long road toward acceptance.
Not that is was an apples to apples comparison.
In working with Trans youth, it was always part of the process to dress the role of the gender one felt they were meant to be before the operation. A little, (lot ?) ironic in terms of transcending gender/sex roles … but it has always seemed strange to me that Bruce just wants to be a woman in athletic shorts and big t shirts. If his family is aware, is it just being downplayed for the big televised reveal? Is he about to show us feeling he was meant to be a woman isn’t about the dress up we associate with drag? It just feels off to me.
Why would it be strange that Bruce wants to dress in ” athletic shorts and big t shirts”? There are women that dress like that. Maybe that’s the kind of woman he wants to be. I think his mind Bruce is still an athlete and that’s how he wants to dress.
That’s something that was forced upon trans people. If you wanted to have the op, you had to ‘look and act the part’, which basically meant be a cariacture of your gender. People were stopped from having the operation because they didn’t want long hair or didn’t want to grow a beard. Thankfully it’s changing.
Not every MtF trans person is a girly girl who loves make-up and heels and pink dresses and speaks in a little girl voice. Not every FtM trans person wants to look like a lumberjack or be a beer-swilling, football loving man’s man. Y’know, just like cis men and women.
FYI, drag is just a performance style, like burlesque. RuPaul for instance identifies as a gay man, and he dresses as a man when not in character. There are some trans drag queens, but there are also straight drag queens and bi drag queens and gay drag queens. It’s tangentially connected to the trans movement but it’s certainly not a key component, it’s just an activity some trans people happen to take part in. Very few trans women are or want to be drag queens.
No matter what you do in the public eye people are still going to moan.
Why can’t people let others live the way they want to? If he’s transitioning in a documentary he is kind of doing a service for people who are doing the same.
There was a good documentary on HBO years ago about people who had gender reassignment surgery. I wonder if it could be found on you tube?
Well it’s good to know that someone being killed by his probable accidental hitting of her car won’t delay the production of his reality show. Grrrrrrr
They need to pipe down. People’s lives aren’t fodder for YOUR cause. He is a human and an individual.
The suicide rate is 6 times the norm because people who want to transgender feel they can’t as they wont’ be accepted, or trapped due to finances, family obligations, etc. which all fall under the category of emotional frailty (at least on that issue). Why does Tur think Jenner is any different? Is he not emotionally fragile too? Just because he is rich and is a decathalon winner, doesn’t make him any stronger in the area of transgender as it pertains to his personal struggle. The money-making ventures are hear-say at this point. Perhaps he should be given the benefit of a doubt that he, too, is struggling with this decision. I’m not going to slam him for not jumping on the Transgender bandwagon. He isn’t ready and nobody gets to say when he should be ready. And, yes, he is taking female hormones. I read that somewhere – can’t remember who verified it, but someone from his team. He has had his adams apple shaved, grown his hair out, had plastic surgery to make his features more “fine” and he’s growing moobs at this point, so yah, he’s transitioning. I feel sorry for anybody going through this in the public eye. It was bad enough for Chaz Bono, but Jenner has the Kartrashian’s to deal with on top of everything else. Money doesn’t mean anything if you aren’t happy before-hand and obviously he wasn’t.
Agree entirely. Why does Bruce have to immediately become a public spokesperson for the movement when he is clearly still in the midst of his transition? No doubt this is not an easy decision to make for himself and for his family, and is perhaps made even more difficult by the fact that he is a famous athlete and celebrity. He can’t do this quietly, so people should be giving him space to do the public transition in the manner that he feels most comfortable with. If that is taping a reality show to air at a later date and not sitting down for interviews right away, so be it.
And if he makes money in the process, then so be it. He has spent much of his life giving public speeches for money (long before KUWTK), so I have no issue with him continuing to do so.
This was a tragic accident, I feel so bad for the woman and her friends and family. I’m glad to see some positive things has come out of this accident becoming so public, referring to the comments regarding road safety etc. My heart also sank for Bruce when I read about the accident, he’s going through so much right now, and I was really hoping this whole media circus regarding his transition would end up being something all-around positive. If not a role model, I at least hoped that he would be seen as a positive example of a transperson, which if he’s not at fault in this accident of course isn’t on him. I just feel really sad about this whole situation on every level, I guess.
Okay, I don’t buy the claim at all that Bruce Jenner is waiting for his daughters to be old enough to understand. I think the entire Kardashian/Jenner clan have shown a complete disregard for age-appropriateness.
Ugh. I hate the attitude that celebrities owe it to the LGBT community to come out and be leaders. No they don’t. They don’t owe anyone anything.
Why shouldn’t he make the announcement? Uh, maybe because it’s deeply fucking personal?
I am openly gay but if someone tried to convince me I owed it to people to tell the whole world I was gay I would tell them to fuck right off.