Much has been written about John Oliver’s stellar transition over to HBO in the past year. His weekly show has gotten great ratings and wide critical acclaim. He’s borrowed some stuff from The Daily Show format and added some new stuff, including the ability to spend ten minutes or more doing deeper analysis on more difficult subjects like net neutrality or the death penalty. Well, Oliver is making headlines today because he secretly flew to Russia last week to do a sit-down interview with Edward Snowden. The interview is not softball at all, but yet manages to be funny, interesting and informative. And in case you don’t believe this isn’t celebrity-oriented enough… much like Julian Assange, Snowden is literally a cause célèbre in many circles, and Oliver Stone’s Snowden bio-pic – starring Joseph Gorden Levitt as Snowden – will be out later this year.
Skip ahead to the 14-minute mark to watch the Snowden piece from the beginning. Snowden was more than an hour late to meet Oliver. The interview took place in a building across from the old KGB building in Moscow. (Beware: some NSFW language.)
Many news outlets are picking apart Snowden’s admission – prompted brilliantly by Oliver – that he knowingly gave out information that could harm American interests or worst-case scenario, threaten American lives. Snowden is now on the record “owning” that. Which… I mean, if Snowden ever comes back to America and gets put on trial for treason, this interview could be used as evidence. But then in the last half of the interview – the “dick pic” scenario – is actually quite brilliant. John Oliver is absolutely right, using the “naked photo” example to explain what our government is doing with our electronic communications is an effective and powerful way of explaining this situation. It actually seems like Snowden is kicking himself for not realizing that he could have been explaining it this way the whole time.
Photos courtesy of Getty, WENN.
Snowden has been speaking out strongly against a bill the Canadian government is trying to pass. It’s been a good way to get more people to pay attention to it (initial disapproval was 17%, people learned more about the content and now more than 50% disapprove).
Wish more people would pay attention to what’s going on
Sorry that was totally off topic lol
Not off topic at all, says a Canadian. : )
Government surveillance is government surveillance and if it gets “normalized” in a Canada coasting on its former reputation as the principled “good guy” of the North…where is anyone to turn?
Jason Kenney probably wouldn’t mind checking out the captured dick pics.
I lol-ed at the Jason Kenny comment. For real. Out loud.
I think talking about “dick pics” is Snowden finding his level.
He’s a dbag who fits just fine with all the other immature, narcissistic dbags out there.
It’s still pretty close to what the post is about though! Harper thought he would easily pass this bill because he was basically fear mongering Canadians with terrorism. Thankfully Canadians are more savvy and intelligent than Harper gives us credit for.
Thankfully enough have spoken out to make others sit up and listen.
Seeing Canada turn into America is not great
Savvy and intelligent…but paralyzed with this majority government situation.
Audrey, It is NOT at all off topic, as a fellow Canadian, this bill scares me to my core. The Harper gov’t has been hellbent on destroying all that makes Canada ,Canada while systematically attacking our rights and our ability to stop them.
Hopefully discussions like this will get more Canadians talking about this issue and asking their MP’s to vote against. I also hope that maybe come election time more people might actually vote so that we can finally be rid of this Conservative majority. That last hope is a pipe dream.. siiigghhh…..
Seriously, this majority, he doesn’t even pretend to care that how he looks to us. Don’t care about minorities–especially ones who are disappearing, they don’t exist. Environment, what environment? ‘Shut up, or I’ll prorogue you!’ I keep voting, but damn.
It’s waiting for me on my DVR! So excited.
It’s highlarious, I’ve watched it about 7 times already.
SOOOOO GOOD.
John Oliver is so good because he’s really skilled at nuance. He’s good at pointing out that very few situations are as simple as anybody wants to believe they are. Snowden is a perfect example. He revealed things that have a huge potential for serious abuse and showed that the systems are not secure as we’d hope they are. But on the other hand, most of us like staying safe (or at least safer) and if we want that, we probably are going to have to give the government leeway to spy and invade some of our privacy. That’s the trade-off. You can’t have total or near-total security and still have iron-clad privacy rights. Ultimately, I don’t want to see Snowden convicted of anything, because he did do something really useful – making people aware of surveillance and what they might have to trade to be safe. But I also understand why people think what he did was wrong.
And Oliver is a far better interviewer than some of the bigger names on network news. I can’t imagine some of them doing such a decent job with such a high profile case.
The problem is that governments can turn any information they have against you. Or even employees at NSA, I mean, who knows what kind of creepy people actually work there?
* and after this comment I’ll be on the NSA watch list..*
how would you be safer?
you are as safe as a prisoner is safe because they are locked away. only that they can see the bars, yours are invisible.
@Solanaceae: thats already happening:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOVEINT
I know, actually just last week Brussels issued a statement that all europeans should close Facebook accounts, since all information is ending up at the hands of NSA and other American overnments institutions. I don’t feel safer, I feel terrified and horrified at the fact of what they might do. There’s one movie, don’t recall its name, where someone at an agency erased a citizen’s all ID because they needed an escape goap for a crime. We’re not far from that Hollywood “fantasy”…
It depends on who you’re trying to be safer from. Right now, most Americans have the greatest fear from forces coming from outside the country.
And it’s not true entirely to say that we’re not safer. My husband works for a member of Congress and has been to some briefings and seen reports that implicate intelligence and surveillance. Has widespread surveillance prevented terrorist attacks in the US? The answer is an emphatic, absolute YES. That’s something that should never be disputed, and it shocked me to find it out. The government doesn’t want most people to know exactly how many attacks were foiled because if people knew, they’d probably presume that the US is under constant bombardment (and they’re not totally wrong).
Right now, I don’t believe the NSA is trustworthy. But right now, I think it’s a safe bet that most of us fear ISIS/Al Qaeda/Boko Haram more. So I think most Americans are willing to let the NSA get away with a lot if it means that maybe those other groups won’t be able to strike at us as much.
I do understand the fear from Isis /Al Qaeda, Europe has the same fear and trust me, one of the countries they want to occupy the most is my own… but maybe Americans should ask their government how Al Qaeda started and who actually trained them…
If citizens of USA are ok with spying, I am cool with it and if it makes you feel safer… BUT your country has no right to spy citizens of other countries or the governments of these countries.
good point. there is still is such a different view on american and people from other countries as if the rest of the world should have less rights.
That’s one of my major concerns.As a European citizen, I’m not comfortable with the US spying my e-mails, my FB account, the links I visit, etc… I wouldn’t want it from my own government let alone a foreign one… But the US uses the excuse of protecting US citizens to spy on other countries. Don’t like it a tid bit, don’t want it. This world wide web is very complicated and dangerous in my honest opinion.
*Hi NSA*
Do you really believe that European governments aren’t spying on other governments and their citizens?
Spy craft has been around as long as countries have been around.
But I do believe that they do the same… As I’ve said before I don’t want my own government nor others to survey me…. I can give you an hilarious example.My government now has a part in IRS for various expenses you can deduce (from hairdresser to shopping groceries, if you spend 750, you get 250 back), this is a way for knowing if you spend more than your earn and for you to police on everyone else….
It doesn’t make the internet safer. The gov’t loaded back doors to hack. Hackers gonna hack, and they ain’t all NSA employees.
Just one thing I love about John Oliver is that like most good educators (and comedians), he understands how powerful metaphor, analogy, parable et al are in communicating, and how they enable someone to suddenly ‘put themselves’ into a situation & understand its relevancy in an entirely new way.
I’m torn on this one. I believe in democracy and making our government accountable, but he also put us in potential risk. I think the Homeland security bill should be revoked, it was thrown together during a time of crisis in our country. We had been attacked and people were feeling vulnerable.
I’m torn, too. I think what he did was wrong. But I’m not sorry the information is out there. But we can’t have everybody who disagrees with a government policy releasing confidential information whenever they feel like it. I don’t know what should happen to him.
I think he should be treated as a whistle blower. The vast netting to capture everything is overkill. And Snowden left what should be released, to journalists, for them to decide. He netted a bunch of fish, like the government does. That netting causes harm all around, but at least Snowden admitted what he did. The gov’t is a hell of a lot less forthcoming and then went into denial mode.
How did it put us at risk?
I hope Obama reaches out to Snowden and asks him to return before he leaves office, on the assurance that Snowden will receive a pardon from him. Do any of you think that can happen?
No. He committed treason, no matter how justifiable. The American justice system cannot allow that to go unpunished and will not set a precedent like that. Besides which he would never be safe from threat were he to return, even with a pardon.
Week after week, John Oliver continues to be the best, most varied, and most in-depth news show on US television.
I love him so much!
I like the informations he provides about the USA because these are things which I would not normally know as a Eauropean. But he is far left for my taste and I believe in more objective news.
I adore him!!
I’m really sad that John Oliver’s weekly clips on youtube have suddenly been blocked in the UK. I really enjoy his show. Reminds me of shows that were par of the course in the 80s/90s in UK that skewered our officialdom.
What I can’t get over is how much Americans allow officialdom to get away with. Not that the UK is perfect, but still……..
the american psyche changed drastically after 9/11. i’m not saying i agree with it at all but the fear of that happening again is constantly drudged up and used to allow this kind of gov’t action. as an american, it’s infuriating that we think it’s okay to trade our freedom/privacy for the idea that these tragedies will never happen again (no gov’t can guarantee that).
Agreed. THe Boston bombers are the perfect example of this. And our gov’t was warned.
Using the “Hola” extension in Chrome browser you can pick the country you want to receive from. Choose US, and you should be able to get YouTube. I choose Great Britain and use it for ITv/BBC Player here in the US. 😊
Thank you. Will go try that.
Thanks for that. I get it in France but there are obviously American ones I cannot get here and I haven’t renewed my VPN which sucks because I could be watching HBOGo! I miss Bill Maher and John Oliver. Damn you French banking system!
Wow, a great interview!
I still don’t understand how come people aren’t aware of any government syping on its own people…and it’s definitely scary..
Thank you for putting this so simply! don’t understand why Americans don’t pay attention to the big picture. Propaganda isn’t very hard to see thru. The uninformed public is easy to control. Oliver was genius here…I despise the embarrassment I feel to be an American. Critical thinking skills are in short short short supply. I understand the reticence to agree with Snowdens behavior completely, as long as one knows who he is and what he did. The issues are far larger than nudity, and it’s sad that people care more about a, “dick pic” than all of the available information. I guess if a picture of ones body strikes up a conversation it’s better than continued ignorance. I urge everyone to think beyond the evident humiliation of a private photo. Think about the larger issue. Become informed. Create an opinion based upon factual information. Personally, I love me a good whistleblower…the inherent risks involved are not as scary as the information divulged. I do, however, respect all INFORMED opinions. It’s nice to read so many of those in the comment section of the best gossip website ever.
John Oliver is Great .. just great… sharp, smart, dorky, funny as for Snowden this might sound messed up but he just comes off like such a… DICK IDK he is extremely off putting and pompous to me even if he has the most valid of concerns
On that note… Idk me and my gf that work in the news buisiness talk about this a lot.. people in the US seem to want things in the extreme both ways like ALL the security and Hawk Tendencies and kill the baddies but don’t touch our liberties in any way and that simply isn’t a realistic stance is like we ARE giving up something by being in a certain level of protection likewise is we want total freedom to be who we wanna be and all that other mess then is gonna be a LOT of sh!t flying under the radar… Idk if im explaining it well… but on that note egnh! im of the mind that the government can go ahead and listen in on me and see whatever foolishness and memes I’m sending to my gfs I have nothing to hide/be afraid of and LOLz at them if they wanna get off on my Noodz
I get what you’re getting at and I agree with you a 100%
“im of the mind that the government can go ahead and listen in on me and see whatever foolishness and memes I’m sending to my gfs I have nothing to hide/be afraid of and LOLz at them if they wanna get off on my Noodz ”
incredibily dangerous mindset.
the problem is that YOU think you have nothing to hide but you are not making that evaluation, other people are. people who might come from the opposite political spectrum. that might see your opinions as dangerous.
here is some reading about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
http://www.wired.com/2013/06/why-i-have-nothing-to-hide-is-the-wrong-way-to-think-about-surveillance/
you can also google “i have nothing to hide” there are a lot of results arguing against that.
Thank you.
“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance” goes both ways.
*shrugs* That is your Opinion, you’re entitled to it, I come from a far more f*cked up, repressive and unequal government, less effective too at solving crime and issues in general so To me I actually appreciate what US has going on here
I read your links, Kara, but they didn’t say much except that the government could use information about you to damage your reputation, which I suppose is true if they focused in on me for some reason, but they wouldn’t , or that you could be breaking a law you don’t know about, like owning a lobster over a certain size. Silly. The government is not sifting through my emails and reading them one by one. They’re looking for key words and patterns and associations with dangerous groups. If they can stop terrorist acts by doing this, I don’t have a real problem with it. Because I’m not a terrorist. I think it’s foolish to take everything to the extreme and say now the government is going to set up some middle aged housewife with an oversized lobster.
*reports GutenRamen for oversized lobster hoarding*
GoodNames:
“I don’t have a real problem with it. Because I’m not a terrorist”
i am very sorry, but how could i argue with you if thats your thinking? people who have a problem with it are terrorists, you fell right into the propaganda.
thats very good way of shutting a conversation down.
look at the history of the intelligence services and who was targeted. i assume you are a feminist, guess who got targeted? i assume you want PoC to have the same rights as white people? guess who was targeted. Martin Luther King was a terrorist in the eyes of the FBI/CIA/NSA. even John f**king Lennon was seen as a danger. with his dangerous song “Imagine”. Or right now Angela Merkel, hm?
so even if you personally were never targeted, other very important people will. people that fight for your rights, too.
also assume that a right wing nutter gets into power and has all those beautiful machines already working, does that make you feel ok?
suddenly those terrorist words you talk about might be “abortion” “evolution” or “socialism”
the other thing is the self censorship: when you now tyou are being monitored you watch what you write beacuse deep down you are afraid of landing on some lists.
also the 9/11 and the Boston bombers were all in special surveillance and yet it did not help, did it?
Kara, I’m certainly not trying to shut down the conversation. I was merely pointing out that the articles you cited have extremely weak arguments against the position that “I’m not doing anything wrong, so I have nothing to hide.” They were very unconvincing. And no, every terrorist attack will not be stopped, but we have no way of knowing how many have been through this method. This method, which was not used when Martin Luther King was alive, so I have no idea what you’re even talking about there. Should we have no intelligence services at all? Because they have historically abused their power at times? Or are you opposed to present policies? I thought we were talking about what was going on today. These policies are barely tolerated as they are. I don’t think it’s helpful, truthful or realistic to stretch them out to the absurd by saying a right wing nutter will be elected president (I doubt it) and suddenly we will have no rights or freedoms at all. That’s just hyperbole intended to make people afraid. And what would you be looking up that you would have to self-censor? How to make a bomb? I just don’t think this kind of hysteria is helpful. And if my next door neighbor is contacting terrorist groups and planning to join ISIS, it’s fine with me if he gets arrested.
Is it hyperbole, though? The constitution gives you the right to privacy. Check one off that list already. The constitution gives you the right to due process, it doesn’t always work that way, though. Different agencies sharing information about you to each other. Warrants are so ‘old school’ lol
Not too long ago, the government was spying on MLK in order to discredit him and track him, if not put him out of commission entirely. The government can spy on anyone and invent reasons to detain him/her…or worse. And while the ACLU is out there trying to barter for your freedom, you’re locked away indefinitely due to the indefinite, limitless Patriot Act. And maybe tortured for good measure. Never take your freedoms and liberties and privacy for granted, IMO, because you’re in America now–it claims it is above other countries in protecting human rights, so hold it to a higher standard.
thank your for mentioning Dr King.
here is an article about a letter the FBI sent to him:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/what-an-uncensored-letter-to-mlk-reveals.html?_r=0
its sad how many commenters here say they are feminists and anti racists and yet defend a government that targeted and targets the people fighting for those causes. because they must be terrorists, hm? because they have something to hide, hm?
@Kara, I’m not understanding your comment, but then I’m tired…
+ 1 Pinky.
QQ, thank you! I have such a hard time believing Snowden’s intents were genuine because he just comes off as such a narcissistic jerk to me. He wanted his moment in the spotlight, he got it at great consequence to others, and he failed to foresee the effects on his personal freedoms and movements. The fact that he billed himself as some transparency/privacy rights revolutionary and has now aligned himself with the Russian government speaks volumes. If anything, the biggest scare for me here is not that the NSA is keeping tabs, so to speak (did y’all not see Enemy of the State way back in 1998, which spelled all of this out?), but that the NSA is keeping tabs and making immature blowhard contract workers like Snowden privy to the collected information.
he has not aligend himself with the russian government…seriously, Fox News is powerful propaganda.
the USA revoked his passport to strand him there, he was headed to south america.
look at how the us treats prisoners if you want to know why even a country like Russia is safer for him.
Kara–with all due respect, I think you’re proving my point. Russia is the only “civilized” place that will have him, and he risks imprisonment if he returns to the U.S. He therefore has had to beholden himself to the Russians to extend his asylum in the country and maintain his freedom. If he was truly interested in the cause (rather than his own comfort), he would fight the charges in the U.S. In your comments, you keep drawing comparisons between Snowden and MLK, which I believe are misplaced–for one, MLK famously went to jail. Going to jail was part and parcel of his protest under the civil disobedience theory. I’m sure it was hard, I’m sure he was mistreated, I’m sure he hated being separated from his loved ones, but it was a sacrifice he made to call attention to his cause. Snowden is only interested in calling attention to himself.
I agree with you Kara. He wanted out of Russia, and his plane was intercepted. He made a plea to go to Germany, too. Even if Snowden is a narcissistic blowhard, who better for the task? A wallflower with self-esteem issues? Seriously, to go up against the US gov’t, takes someone who is like the US gov’t, in hubris.
ETA: @ Mixtape, MLK was assassinated.
no no, he didn´t bill himself with Russia. He had to hide there because the US wanted to tried him (and probably kill him). The guy leaked all those dirty secrets because one thing is spying in the so called war on terror (doesn´t seem to be working after all these years, right?) but other is spying directly to, for example, companies so that you can have a benefit, it goes far beyond diplomacy. They were spying on Petrobras, the Brazilian oil company. c´mon guys. Spying has always existed and all the world power do it. But spying on Petrobras how is going to help? And what consequences to others??
He knew exactly the risks he was taking. I think he was a bit silly, because in the end nothing changed, and nobody cared. I wouldn´t have done it, unless there was a genocide. I think he was genuine, who other than a sort of independient media can talk about what´s going on and people pay attention? Journalists are still the only ones that can do it. It wasn´t because of the spotlight. How would you do it? Giving copies to people at a mall?
I won´t mind spying if it is to end all the religion nutters and the like (and pedophiles, human trafficking, etc), but you have to ask yourself… do they really want to finish them? I think the answer is no, they are just looking to take advantage for money and control, in that case I can´t support spying.
So killing or sending Snowden to jail it would be just a warning to all of us, shut up and do what we say and btw we won´t protect you very much because we are busy making money of all of this. I can´t understand why people still label him as traitor, it´s better not saying anything then if something is wrong?
@Mixtape Have you seen Citizien Four.
He pefectly calculated the risk, he knew exactly what would happen and I believe that nobody would want to risk that much, to pay such a high price just for 15 minutes of fame.
Why would he have stayed in the US when his actions fall under the espionnage act, a law created in 1917 (!) during WW1, and for which no defense is admissible. He knew he would’ve been thrown to jail if not worse.
He doesn’t claim to be a martyr, he just believed that it was his duty as an American citizen to bring attention to the American governement’s abuse in term of intelligence gahtering.
And talking about confort… really? I don’t see anything confortable in his situation.
Word up! Look away at my nudies you horny geeks…give my web history a peek if ya wanna since I know I’m watched because of it. I’d rather be an informed citizen than worry about y’all. I agree QQ re: privacy rights. We can’t have it all. I think there should be certain protective regulatory requirements put into place though.
I think Snowden has always struck the right balance in interviews of stressing his logic in revealing the documents was transparency. We as a nation might determine its in our best interest to relinquish some privacy ( or not) but that is a decision for “we the people” …not the NSA and not in secrecy.
Snowden is a criminal and should be imprisoned. What he did was illegal and unethical. There were other ways he could have handled the situation without turning it into a media circus, but he chose to do it the way he did because he wants to be seen as some sort of hero. Doing the right thing was never his goal; he was after personal glory from the start.
It’s impossible to deduce what’s in someone’s mind so I reject your argument.
It is on record, however, that he was well aware of the liberties he would be giving up. He knew he would have to leave his home, family, girlfriend and a well paid position of over 100,000. He also felt his welfare was in jeopardy from the time he took the data til it was printed. I think it’s unbeleivably cynical to assume “fame” would be its own reward.
Do you think we would ever found out about the extent of the spying if he hadn’t made the effort? Or is it just better that we don’t know? I’m not thrilled about his actions but I’d prefer to know.
+ 1
Why is he a criminal and the ones spying on us aren’t? We send to jail a person for peeping through a window or a door, how’s that different from reading our emails and etc? Oh right, they’re protecting us, well maybe the peeper was too, protecting us…
Guess it depends on what your idea of a criminal is. Personally, I’d rather see the Wall Street Bankers who completely corrupted the housing market (of which effects which will be seen for generations) do some hard time before Snowden.
I’d say the same about my own government and the corrupts that flourish like mushrooms around here…
YES MIMIF.
its funny because what Snowden did was providing information that what the government is doing is unethical and illegal.
also Snowden had NO other choice. first of all he never wanted to stay in Russia, the USA revoked his passport and than used that against him.
second of all, read about how the US are treating their inmates, look what they did to Chelsea Manning (crime: releasing a tape of soldiers shooting cillivans, Chelsea got punished, the soldiers werent!!!!!!)
or look how the men in Gitmo were tortured. why would Snowden stay in a country that does not follow human rights when it comes to prisoners?
the public had a right to know.
also “personal glory” thats a narrative pushed by Fox news and other ring wingers: how often does Snowede personally appear in the media? he is rarely seen, he keeps a very low profile despite being a major political figure.
In my opinion he’s not a traitor to his country, what he did was warn people about surveillance, he did betray the rich and powerful that wish to control everything and everyone, not his countrymen, the americans… Treason is a funny word that is usually used by a small group of people to control the masses… There’s a song from my country about war that has a fantastic group of verses. I’ll leave it here for you to think about it:
There’s always the word, the word “nation”, chiefs bring it and use it to hide the reason for their will, that truth….
PS: i mean you wouldnt call Martin Luther King a glory hunter, would you?
Please tell me you aren’t comparing Martin Luther King, who spent his life peacefully protesting for equal rights for all people, out in the open, with dignity and humility and courage, and ultimately gave his life for his beliefs – who never hurt anyone or exposed any government secrets – to Snowden, who swore an oath to keep aspects of his job secret and broke that oath, endangering lives and his country? Just please tell me that’s not what you’re doing, because that would be truly sickening.
I’m not comparing him to MLK, just stating that the word traitor conveys meanings according to different understandings…And the perception of traitor also changes in time… Let’s see how people call Snowden in a couple of decades…
@GoodNames
MLK wasn’t a saint. He was a human being who believed in civil disobedience to combat injustice. Snowden didn’t try to violently overthrow our government. He released documents.
And please remember that when he was alive, MLK was considered a subversive traitor (communist) by our government.
Wtf
I don’t disagree with anything you said. But I see a big difference between taking peaceful actions to improve the world by nonviolent means and releasing confidential documents you have sworn to keep secret that could endanger the country. As I said somewhere above, I have mixed feelings about what Snowden did. Perhaps he felt he had no choice. But he betrayed his country, regardless. MLK was not perfect in his private life, but I believe he fought for equal rights with everything he had, knowing he would probably die for it. Snowden doesn’t seem to want any consequences for his actions. They just aren’t the same to me in action or intent.
Civil disobedience often involves breaking the law, FWIW. I don’t know whether Snowden believes he deserves no punishment or whether he fears being locked naked and cold in a jail cell with no visits from his lawyer, like the gov’t did in the past. There were people literally calling for Snowden to be hung.
Please tell me what are the “other ways” he could have handled this. I’m dying to know.
really? what other ways? the Supreme Court? the Congress? I am laughing just thinking about it.
Even some of the biggest US newspapers killed some previous stories done by their own journalist. Pressure was too much, a lot of threats. That a government approves a law that benefits it doesn´t make it right. And as Kiddo said, civil desobidience often involves breaking those laws that the gov passed to “protect us”.
so what other ways?
Does this remind anyone else of J. Edgar Hoover’s stash of info? Just because they say they won’t actually look at the stuff does not make me feel better. It will eventually be used for political or financial gain. The way NSA passes around nude pics just assures me that our government doesn’t respect privacy.
And yeah, I think Snowden is a bit of a tool. But I’m really glad he felt it necessary to tell the public what it’s government is doing.
Despite the fact that I think this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as infringement of privacy goes, Snowden is still a traitor. Surely, there has to have been a better way of handling this.
its funny how many people use the propaganda term of traitor. someone who stands up to the government is a traitor? Snowden is on the side of the people and on the side of the constitution, the other side are the traitors. they violate everything the United States were founded upon.
Just said the same thing above… 🙂
He betrayed a confidence he swore to keep. He is a traitor. You may agree with what he did, but he is not noble. He is a traitor.
So Jen43, let’s say a person swears an oath of confidence, works for an agency, discovers that agency is planning to commit a crime against a particular group of citizens, a really vile crime, he blows the whistle on it, he’s a traitor because he had a confidentiality agreement? what if he works for a pharmaceutical instead and discovers that a vaccine being produced is going to kill people, but he has a confidentiality agreement, should he keep his mouth shut?
Ok, so just follow orders blindly, obey and STFU?? That’s your idea of loyalty?
I don’t know if he did for money, for fame, or for honesty, he did it and warned people…
Shouldn’t loyalty be to the people and not the governments? Who decides what is supposed to be a secret? You, me, population in general or some very shaddy characters that play us?
so breaking an oath is worse than exposing crimes? okey dokey.
You’re all ignoring the fact that certain people in certain jobs are morally and legally obligated to keep secrets. What if they all just started to expose everything they know because they don’t agree with it? What if they identify covert agents because they decide they don’t like spying? What if they reveal how our weapons are made because they don’t like war? You’re living in this pink little world of right (which means what YOU believe) and wrong (what YOU don’t believe). He swore to keep the information he learned through his job secret, and he broke that oath. That is EVERY bit as dangerous as what he exposed. We’re lucky he didn’t do more harm, but what about the next guy. People in the military have to follow orders whether they agree with them or not, or there will be chaos. It’s the same thing. Just because you wanted the information doesn’t make it ok for him to have given it.
@GoodNamesAllTaken
You’re wrong regarding the army. Military personnel have a duty to desobey all unlawfull orders.
The NSA and CIA were (are) lying to congress and spying without warrants ergo their activities were (are) illegals. IMO Edward Snowden did his duty
Was Deep Throat a traitor? Are all whistleblowers traitors?
The NSA was SPYING on us, and LYING about to Congress and every other body that was meant to be a watchguard on their power. That isn’t hyperbole, you can actually google the congressional hearings where the NSA flatly denied using google and yahoo searches to track Americans. Then Snowden leaked the information and then the same NSA guys had to admit they were lying.
The only way we found out was Snowden telling us. So who is really the traitor here?
Can you define “traitor” for me? I’m very curious what your definition might be?
I find it refreshing just how many people are concerned about the dwindling privacy here in America. I assumed most people were of the mind set of they have nothing to hide so who cares if the government looks.
The person who indicated that all they look for are key words suggesting terrorist behavior, please reevaluate. The people who have been spying on you are the same ones telling you what they are looking for.
25 years ago Snowden would have been a traitor but America is so vastly different than it once was. There is too much Gray in distinguishing who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.
Not American, but USA also spies on European citizens… And me not like it…
I don’t blame you. I’m american. It’s terrifying the rights Americans assume they have In the rest of the world
@ Solanceae: You don’t think European governments ( and other governments) aren’t spying on other countries, too???? Do you live in a fantasy world ? The US just got caught – it doesn’t mean other countries aren’t doing the same.
GROW UP!!
Blanche you should read my others posts, please… There’s one where I state I don’t want to be spyed on by my own country,let alone others, and another where I say that Europe also spies on citizen… Read everything before judging, please…
Hi, I very rarely post (last time was maybe a year ago?) but I wanted to say thanks to Kara & Solanaceae for their powerful arguments for freedom, and against government surveillance.
I’m just a mom with a young son, a full time employee (well, on leave bec I just had brain surgery but I’ll be back at work in a few weeks, anyway), a citizen who pays her taxes, follows the rules…the NSA wouldn’t have any interest in my communications, I’m sure. I still will fight tooth and nail against giving them the freedom to snoop, though. Unless I commit a crime, my political opinions, my hobbies, etc. are NOT their business.
What if one day the U.S. leadership becomes far more conservative, and there was a backlash against people who were pro-choice, or anti-violence, or generally disinterested in religion? Some of my views could seem pretty subversive in the Bible Belt. VERY subversive in Saudi Arabia. But just because I disagree with a group who happens to be the majority in an area, or currently in power, should that make me a target? If I’m not inciting trouble, or DOING anything wrong – just writing about my thoughts to my friends? But…my views are now subversive! And the NSA has evidence, in the form of texts and emails…
Sounds crazy, but so much of what’s considered “true” or “moral” depends on the culture, or who’s in power at any given time. Look at all the people still in jail for using marijuana, while it’s perfectly legal in other places now. Times change, laws change. My thoughts will always be my own, though, and according to our First Amendment, I should be free to write them down and communicate them.
Your welcome sweety … 🙂 And thank you for your thanks.. There has to be a limit on it, I guess…
Well said and I agree with you, lunareclipse, but – news flash – America already IS that conservative, if you look at the issues, America is far to the right of most major industrialized nations, and the policies of Democratic presidents like Obama and Clinton are nearly identical to those of George Bush Sr. and GB Jr. (e.g. Clinton repealed the Glass-Steagalll Act, decimated welfare, and passed NAFTA; Obama continues with drone attacks unabated in the Middle East and has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all other presidents COMBINED!).
Do you know which group of people is near the top of the list of those deemed “terrorists” who are constantly spied on in the U.S.? Environmentalists. The same people who are working to address issues that are nearly verboten to government and industry like climate change and pollution – to protect us all – are deemed among the most threatening terrorists that exist.
That I can believe so well, it threatens the oil/ black gold diggers who are the major financers of political campaigns..
The Guardian has a really interesting article about terrorist attacks in the US since 1970. According to the data, “The three terrorist organizations with the largest number of attacks on the US from 2001 to 2011 were the Earth Liberation Front (50), the Animal Liberation Front (34) and al-Qa’ida (4).” So yeah — environmentalists.
Article here: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/apr/17/four-decades-us-terror-attacks-listed-since-1970
@Venus
WOW you just blew my mind
“Lies, damn lies, and statistics…”
The U.S. gov’t plays fast and loose with the terms “terrorist” and “attack”. I have not had time to look through the entire database from which that Guardian article draws its information, but from a review of literature that I have done in years before, it seems that ALF and ELF “attacks” have not resulted in harm to any human beings at all. They have destroyed high-priced luxury items such as McMansions and Hummers at car dealerships, but equating a destruction of inanimate objects on ethical grounds with the destruction of human beings on so-called “religious” “moral” grounds is rather dubious, yet exactly what these data and the summary of their findings do.
I’d like to add that just because I don’t care if the government looks at my nudies or web history I don’t care about my right to privacy. I choose not to care about what I see as the lesser of two evils. The two beliefs are not mutually exclusive at all.
The problem is that one doesn’t know what info are they gathering from people around the world, it’s not a matter of nudities, it’s info from hobbies to opinions to finances to everything possible and imaginary without any control whatsoever… So, they survey us, but who makes sure the info they’re collecting from us is used properly and in a non abbusive, invasive way? So, the questions are:who surveys them? and why do they want intel on us, common people, non- terrorist? You do realise that by controlling all sorts of information they can control the ecoomy worldwide?
Unexpected and fantastic that thissite has linked to this interview, because the subject is so important. Most people in my own life don’t care about Snowden, or of the one or two who know who he is, they disapprove of what he did. I think there’s this feeling that the security apparatus is this faceless impersonal monolith and it is mindlessly collecting information for use, if necessary, at some future time. What’s so awesome about the dick pic scenario is the first thing snowden says is that they passed naked pics around all the time, no big deal. In other words, people are actively looking and evaluating pretty much everything you do.
yeah and how is it different from hacking Jennifer Lawrence phone?
None at all. There’s no limit to the use to which this info can be put, and with the public’s passive consent at that. The leering at pics is just the fun stuff for them.
Ok, let’s see if I can explain everything I’m thinking about this, since it’s complicated posting different things in different parts of this thread. I’m from a country with a somewhat complicated history. We ended monarchy and started a nice democratic republic. It all went ok till one guy decided to turn it into a fascist regime. Spying became part of daily life, it was normal, it’s was for the greater cause, the NATION. Your next door neighbour could be part of the “police” of the state: anonymous people whose sole purpose was to keep the state informed about people’s opinion, daily activities and anything that would give just a hint of being against the government, the state, the nation would be communicated to the “intelligence services”. Books, movies, specific words would entitle you to jail, things so innocent as “Cat on a hot tin roof” – censured for being inappropriate for pure catholic minds, words like freedom of speech, democracy, socialism, capitalism, those were jail house and a ticket to torture land. Many fled the country, many were arrested and tortured, news were monitored and corrected by the “police” witha blue pencil- I mean the words youth, study, university were forbidden. My parents, as well as all my relatives left the country, returning after the regime had fallen. If a woman wanted to work, she’d have to have a written consent by her father, or if she was married, by her husband, in the latest case, stating that he earned more than her (a woman couldn’t be the breadwinner), if she had kids, the state wouldn’t allow her to work. A good mom stays at home, doesn’t work as a teacher or nurse ( pratically the only jobs a woman highly educated could have). Divorce was not allowed, that goes against Christ all mighty, not a cristian thing, your husband beats the cr*p out of you? It’s your fault, woman. This was life in my country before the regime fell.
Sorry for all the ranting but this is just to say: now they are collecting information for protection of citizens from foreign and domestic foes. What if, for some wicked reason, a crazy guy takes over power, brainwashes people and uses all that intel, that had the purpose of protecting people, against them. Can we guess the future? Lunatics took over Germany two times leading to 2 WW, my country and others were also taken by weird regimes. What if this happens in the US?
Can people actually picture how dangerous this is, we can’t guess the future, I wish we could.
This is about so much more than some nude pics or some emails… This is about freedom, actual true freedom. Remember what I said at the beginning: spying was a normal daily activity? There lies the danger, when something so atrocious becomes normal and acceptable. It’s not acceptable, and it’s not normal and we should be scared.
I am because of my country’s history, people had no life, no freedom, nothing.
And I feel as if I’m back there with the older people of my country… My freedom is being stepped on, crushed in the name of the “NATION”.
That’s not going to happen. You’re being hysterical and ridiculous. We have too many checks and balances, and the American people would NEVER surrender to what you’re talking about. We are NOT Germany.
I’m not Germany either, and this is just to illustrate what happens or can happen. GNAT I hope not, but powerful people can control many things, and if all the intel falls in the wrong hands (doesn’t have to be a president of the US, just someone with enough power) it’s dangerous. No entity should have so much knowledge about people…
You have too many checks and balances… 1929 never happened, right? Rich countries also suffer major economical blows… .
And people can be brainwashed…But ok, I’m being “hysterical”…
But tell your government then to leave my emails and accounts alone… If you don’t mind being spyed on, I do…
No need for insulting, I haven’t insulted anyone, have I? I just told an experience to reinforce the need to be careful and attentive to governments and their actions. And the intel can fall in the wrong hands, even hackers..
* Could people have a nice chat without insulting people just because they disagree, it gets so tiring….*
Your opinion is insulting to every person in this country.
GNAT, I usually agree with your views, but not here. The U.S. electorate (the half that bothers to vote – never mind the ones who don’t!) has already shown itself to be very gullible, in THIS generation.
I well recall Bush, Cheney et al beating their war drum after 9-11. I remember Bush making odd and accusatory statements seeming out of nowhere about Iraq, and then the came up with the “evidence” for banned weapons, and the insinuations that Saddam had something to do with 9-11. I remember crying, watching the “Shock and Awe” banner on TV as the first bombs rained down, as we went to war on false pretenses.
It seemed so transparent to me! But people were eating up the lies, and anyone who questioned the need for war was a traitor, hated America…Good Americans went shopping to prop up the economy and stuck yellow ribbon-shaped “Support The Troops” stickers on their cars. Major news organizations bought into it and supported the invasion.
It seemed like collective insanity, to me.
Even now, we can’t close Guantanamo, and no one has been prosecuted for the torture – and lies covering it up – engaged in by the CIA at our “Black” sites.
What Solanaceae described sounds like a nightmare…like a mashup of Orwell and Huxley, or Kafka. I very much believe people here (in the U.S.) aren’t, at their core, different from people anywhere else. And we DID have checks and balances, but those have been steadily eroding since Bush 2 was elected (or, installed by his brother Jeb and the Supreme Court) and now? Since Citizen’s United and many other decisions have basically handed our country to the highest bidder. Elections for sale. It’s really scary stuff :(.
Thank you, lunareclipse! I was coming to say the same thing. The GNAT’s comment about “America would NEVER surrender” just reeks of American exceptionalism to me.
Germany was “not Germany” (meaning not some evil and violent country by nature), either, until Hitler came along. There’s nothing that makes Germans more stupid and/or gullible than Americans. It can happen anywhere if we’re not informed, vigilant, and not afraid to question even the highest authority.
As for checks and balances – you said it, too, they are easily subverted, as Oliver is demonstrating.
Checks and balances aren’t working too well for us lately.
I found your posts interesting @Solanaceae
I’m not sure why anyone would think you are insulting them – or why you were talking about Germany, I think the country you are referencing is pretty clear, and having spoken to people from a similar background, I can understand your point of view and where it comes from.
@klein, I mentioned Germany since its History is highly known across the world (I mean who doesn’t know who Hitler and WW2 were?) and because Germans have always been intelligent and well- informed people. Nevertheless, the whole economic crisis from 1929 led them to believe and follow a horrible human being, I believe because of fear and despair, two sentiments so human and so easily used by lunatics to control people . This to illustrate that any society, when facing fear and despair, can be misled into trusting someone not worthy of their trust.
Its not about the conservatives or the liberals. The government did not suddenly formulate the Patriot Acr or the NSA or homeland Security because of 9-11 or because ‘citizens were feeling vulnerable’. The government has been stockpiling information on its own citizens for decades! JEHoover even blackmailed JFK and his brother Bobby. 9-11 was simply too good of a crisis to waste!
Btw: is that M Parrish artwork on the wall behind Snowden?
We should clone Oliver and have him in every country.