SPOILERS!!!!!
Spoilers for last night’s episode of Game of Thrones.
There seems to be a thirst for more Game of Thrones coverage, so let’s get to it. This is not a full-on recap, because while Episode 5.4, “Sons of the Harpy” was jam-packed full of interesting moments, some moments were more interesting than others. So let’s just do some highlights.
Stannis loves his daughter Shireen. I’ll admit it, I cried. I’ve always been sort of a Stannis apologist though. Do I think he’s a perfect leader? No. Do I think he would make an amazing king? No. But he would have made a better king than his brother Robert, and Stannis has hidden depths. I loved that this “hard man,” this warrior, this cold bastard just flat-out adores his little girl.
Stannis doesn’t believe Jon Snow is a bastard. Stannis’s wife: “A bastard by some tavern slut.” Stannis: “Perhaps. But that wasn’t Ned Stark’s way.” O RLY?!?
Jon Snow Knows Nothing. Melisandre tried to seduce Jon Snow. It was sexy, I thought. I mean, it must have been really uncomfortable for Carice van Houten to be naked with a fully dressed Kit Harington, but I liked the way she put his hand on her breast and that he was sort of into it until he thought of Ygritte. Poor Jon Snow and his affection for redheads. When he shut her down and Melisandre stands in the doorway and says “You know nothing, Jon Snow” I literally said “OH MY GOD” to the TV.
Kit Harington on the seduction: “I think that’s how the director wanted it to play out, in a way. There’s a small age difference between me and Carice and that kind of helped it, but it is that—it is quite maternal. He’s got all those mother issues, you know. He’s very Freudian, old Jon. He really does have a thing for redheads, too. And they come on in quick succession!” He also says he “respects” that Jon Snow is “a man of honor and principle and he swears—and has sworn—off women, and that’s because he believes he has a bigger task at hand, and if he falls in love he won’t be able to do that. He also sees Melisandre for the dangerous person that she is, and that’s a tribute to Jon.” You can read more of Kit and Carice’s interview here.
Sansa in the crypt. I like Sansa and I’m actually not tired of her moping around like a sad sack. I think she’s still figuring out how to manipulate people and be a leader. I like the idea of Littlefinger as a mentor/dodgy molester uncle for her because I genuinely think Littlefinger believes in her and wants to help her. Does he have a sketchy agenda? Of course. But he actually sees her potential as a leader, as a potential “wardeness of the North.” I also loved Littlefinger’s story – known to book readers now for years – about Prince Rhaegar presenting Lyanna Stark with the winter roses. Sansa still has the official Stark story of what went down, that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her. The look on Littlefinger’s face tells us that was not actually what happened.
The Sand Snakes. I had been looking forward to the introduction of Prince Oberyn’s daughters but in an already busy episode, I was really disappointed with that scene. I thought it was… poorly written? Which is something I rarely say about GoT. But the dialogue felt really stilted. You can read a new interview with Keisha Castle-Hughes here.
The Sons of the Harpy. I find this guerrilla movement, this insurgency of “The Sons of the Harpy” to be terrifyingly realistic. And it really bugs me that Dany is still so f—king Pollyanna about all of it, especially after the crowd turned on her so powerfully two episodes ago. Well, she won’t be able to stay Pollyanna after the coordinated assault on the Unsullied which left at least two dozen of Dany’s soldiers dead. The fate of Grey Worm is unknown (I think he’s probably alive?) but we now that Ser Barristan the Bold is dead. The actor, Ian McElhinney, gave his exit interview to EW – go here to read. What I love about so many of these exit interviews is that you can just feel how much fun it is on the GoT set, and how so many of these actors just love their jobs.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Loved the episode! The Stannis/Shireen scene was my favorite #StannistheMannis #onetrueking
Yes, that father/daughter scene was really touching and the acting was superb. The last scene, however–OMGosh, it made my chest hurt!
Mine too! Only time during the series that I actually liked Stannis.
Yes, but Melissandre has been foreshadowing the fact that she’s planning on sacrificing Shireen for pretty much an entire season now. It’s incredibly obvious. At this point, the show has surpassed my reading of the books (looks like I need to get hopping on that), so I’m not sure how that will play out.
Sorry to hijack your thread, but OMG how is it a group of Unsullied – who are raised from birth to only FIGHT and KILL- were so easily defeated by a group of former slave owners who have never had to lift a finger in their lives, let alone train as warriors. I’m not buying it. DO YOU HEAR ME BENIOFF! I’m not buying it.
Also, when Melissandre started walking toward Jon, I kept yelling at him to stand the eff up because she was going to strip and crawl into his lap. She’s soooo freaking obvious.
I was really annoyed that the Sons of the Harpy beat the Unsullied as well. But I sort of liked the Jon/Mel scene. Although if she sacrifices Shireen I’m gonna be so mad at her!
Be prepared to get mad.
Good point about the Unsullied, I hadn’t thought of that.
I’m sorry but what was the point of showing us such a touching father-daughter moment if then Stannis lets Mel burn Shireen alive?
I think that will be the point where Stannis gets back to his senses and gets rid of her. Mel then will try to get hop on Jon’s bandwagon.
Technically she’s already done it. She has ditched Stannis for Jon.
Rachel me and My BF had the same gripe Like These are the baddest of the bad! the only thing I can think about is the surprise street Fight element and being Outnumbered on top of that but yeah we thought it was Loopholey as all get out
Paola, it’s Game of Thrones. They’re giving us the warm father/daughter moment to only kill her off, reminding us that the world is governed by madness and we all die alone, cold and loveless. It’s how George Martin shows he cares.
Stannis’s wife is such a brainwashed loonie, she will help Melissandre sacrifice her only child. She knows it’s coming, and she thinks it will be some great honor. And they’ll set it up so Stannis isn’t around to stop it. Although I keep hoping that he WILL be around to stop it, and he’ll finally boot the red witch to the curb and clean up his own house. I see it going the other way though. Stannis has been too focused thus far. Losing his daughter will finally break thru that stoic exterior, I think. Maybe killing his wife in a fury? Will Davos be able to get thru to him, so he only imprisons her? Does Melissandre escape his wrath? There are just so many possibilities.
I don’t think she wants to burn Shireen. That is Stannis’ heir, like it or not. All this turmoil to win the throne and then the line ends with Stannis? Doesn’t make sense to me.
And thinking about claims to the throne, whose is the best? Stannis’ or Dany’s? Or assuming there is a Rhaegar child alive and Rhaegar was married to the mother, would that person’s claim be the best?
@Size
I think the throne belongs to Dany. It was stolen from the Targaryens through murder.
If Jon is Rhaegar’s son doesn’t make a difference because he has made the vow to the Night’s Watch. (we can assume that Aegon will not be in the show. Or maybe HBO will surprise us )
@Abot, I said this to QQ last night, but the whole character buildup is such a cheap Walking Dead thing to do. Just like they did with Selmy last night: Oh let me tell you some funny anecdotal stories and laugh and smile, be so handsome and gentlemanly, and then get split in two by a stupid Harpy. Thanks, hbo.
@Size, good points about the heir. At this point, I think Stannis the Mannis (lol Rachel) technically has the best claim.
Dany has the best claim. She is the legitimate daughter of a legitimate king and her older siblings are dead and older legitimate relative (Aemon) has stepped aside. Unless Rhaegar’s dead kids with Elia aren’t dead. Stannis is merely the brother of an usurper.
I never really understood how the usurper became king to begin with. The Baratheons were Targ cousins, and so once the Targs were all gone, their claim was best? Or did Robert become king because it was his rebellion, as in, the leader of the rebellion becomes king regardless of his relationship to the overthrown group?
The best claim is going to be whomever has the strongest army to back them up. Otherwise Viserys wouldn’t have died pathetic and alone.
Stannis and Shireen: it’s possible that more will be happening there. Did she survive grayscale, or is it just dormant in her system?
@poala – Re: Jon Snow’s Night’s Watch vow. I’m assuming you haven’t read the books? Then I’ll only mention things which have been on the show. You already know that a Watchman’s vow ends with his death. You also know that characters on GoT die at an alarming rate, only to return in some form or another. You also know that Mel has the abillty to raise the dead. You also know that Jon Snow can warg into his wolf, Ghost. With those things in mind, I think you can figure out a (possible) destiny for a (possibly) legitimate Rheager offspring.
Re: the claim, but who is going to back Dany? Some freed slaves? Even though Stannis is the brother of the Usurper, the Mad King was an asshole that was completely bat shit by the end of his reign. Stannis is still fresh, has leige lords and supporters and is known for being brilliant in battle. I can’t see Dany rolling in with her stupid wiglet and being all, Yo I’m Queen, whether she’s a Targ or not. I asked this last week, but how many Targ sympathizers are left?
@Size, Robert became King because he was the first one to sit on the throne after the Mountain destroyed Elia and her children, Robert killed Rhagaer, and Jamie killed the Mad King. Tywin could have easily claimed the throne as his own, as could have Ned (which Robert teased him about). Robert is simply the first one who sat on it/claimed it as his own.
Epiphany
yes I’ve read the books. I know about Jon Snow in the end. But it’s a cliffhanger so I haven’t made my mind up about what will happen to him. I don’t want to spoil things for all the others here so I’ll just leave it at that.
Ok, maybe somebody has said that downthread but i think harpy boys are Dario’s thing. He knows too much and just the way he behaves..hmm
Stannis and his little girl just sweet. She is such a nice little girl considering everything. The mother I can understand too a bit. She probably feels like a failure since they have only one child that is not even a boy and has her face half covered with scales. Easy target for brainwashing
@booboobird, interesting theory about Daario. I don’t care for his character either, but I can’t figure out if it’s just because he looks like a budget Fabio or not.
And good point about Selyse, she gives Stannis only weakness, or however she put it last night.
@mimif, the original Dario actor was ok. this one is all kinds of shady. and when he was all like ‘oh, you shouldn’t be so predictable stomping about in big groups and blah blah blah..’ and when they found one of those harpy boys in a friggin wall of all theplaces..just the whole thing was fishy. especially since he has those second sons (or whatever that bunch is called) and those fellas know how to fight..that would explain unsullied being a lawn and them – mower.
History is filled with the rise and fall of royal houses. Bloodlines mean something in succession, but succession only matters when the ruling family has the power to maintain their position. If they slip, even for a minute, there’s always someone waiting to take advantage. If I recall, Jon Aren had a hand in choosing Robert to be the one to take the throne. I’d have to go back and look for the exact reasoning behind it. Probably a lot to do with Robert’s shear ferocity. And Ned’s refusal. Jon Aren probably believed Robert was strong enough to quell rebellion, and he (Jon) was smart enough to handle the politics. Oh how the mighty fall. As a student of history, I’m constantly amazed at the corruptive, corrosive force of power. The thirst for it.
All that being said, I believe Stannis has the strongest claim to the throne, given the ruling House at the time of the king’s death was Baratheon and Robert had no legitimate children to take the throne. Dany’s claim is only solid if she can wrest control from the current House. However, if she could wrest control, as the remaining legitimate Targ heir, she’d be number one. Which raises the question of Jon Stark. If he IS the illegitimate child of Rhaegar, and if Stannis DID legitimize him (unwittingly believing he was legitimizing him as a Stark), would his claim be superior to Dany’s? Who is older? Although I feel the question is moot because I just can’t see Jon ever wanting the thrown. Even is Rhaegar was his biological father, Ned Stark was his dad. And he is too much his father’s son.
Btw… Paola, mimif, and anyone else who’s read the books, is Ghost okay? Quite frankly, I don’t care who dies, as long as Ghost is okay. I have a thing. Last night when Braun took out the horse, I knew what he was going to do and started screaming.
I’m also worried about Ghost! Jon needs him, where is he ?!?! 🐺
I can’t remember books 4 or 5, but Ghost has gotta be okay. There’s plenty of other loose ends but I don’t think the writer’s would let that go.
Also, awesome post Rachel. I love the parallels GRRM draws from IRL history to GoT. It really is fascinating. Re: the claim again, there’s also the possibility that Tyrion is Aery’s father with Twyin’s wife, so how much of a stake would he have? So many possibilities…
Ok, I’ve just read through *everything* on here, and I have a question…what about Gendry? I haven’t started the books yet (going to get on that asap!).
Good point, I forgot about Gendry. He would have to be legitimized, which I think only a king can do. And none of them would because then he is rightful king.
So the Targs have to re-overthrow? To return to the throne. I remember someone advising someone that the people of Westeros will be glad the Targs are back and will pull out their hidden dragon banners, but I can’t see that happening. They just want peace, and food, and stability. I don’t think the dragons will help there. BUT, the slaves love their Mhysa, so maybe the Westerosi would too.
I’ve said this before, but I don’t think the people who now down to Dany because she’s a Targ. Three uncontrollable dragons, maybe, but then again she’s going to have to contend with the many people who want all dragons dead and gone (the Maesters being one).
Not sure Gendry has much of a storyline now, unless he rallied with Stannis. But does Gendry even care? Seems like a pretty mellow fellow.
@Size thanks, that does make sense 🙂 There are so many characters to keep track of, I often forget all about some of them. I love this place.
@mimif – 3 uncontrollable dragons, until that handy dandy horn happens to show up for Dany! How helpful.
Someone please riddle me this – if Tommen is old enough to be bedded, why does he need a regent to rule for him?
Shireen’s safety with Mellisandre wouldn’t be in doubt if they hadn’t strayed from the books and cut out Mance’s family. In doing so, they’ve changed things for Sam, Jon, Gilly, her baby, and Aemon. And burning Aemon would be more in keeping with her pattern – he is a Targaryen king.
Sorry for my poor grammar, I’m on my phone and half blind already.
@Bridget, made me laugh. I will be slightly annoyed if Dany just toots that horn and the dragons roll over for her.
@Size, because it’s all about putting a seed in his queen’s belly and furthering his line, right? Then he can go back to playing with his Legos.
@Size, when Aerys died, his wife, who was a Targaryen Queen in her own right (incest) fled to Dragonstone and died in childbirth. Viserys was only a little boy but he was the real king after his mom died. Robert sent armies to kill him but he and baby Dany escaped and Robert usurped his throne
I also do not trust Daario. He is very very shady. I think Dany is an idiot to put some much blind faith into this man.
Nothing happens to Ghost
@LilacVulcan, are your posts getting mod’d/delayed? They keep popping up after the fact. Anyway, just came here to say I love your logical input here.
@Bridget, Dany learns to control her dragon without the horn
@mimif, I have a trial today. I’m posting while in line for the ladies room on breaks. On my phone. Which I really hate doing on long threads
@lilac: but what about the other 2? There’s going to be a pretty steep learning curve for the other 2 riders!
I wasn’t too disappointed that they cut out that story line with Mance and Gilly’s baby. It was starting to feel like too many layers piled on. But I also think that something will come up with Shireen and the dragonscale, and what we’re seeing is the show cutting to the chase.
Side note: I was really disappointed that they didn’t nab James Purefoy for Mance Rayder.
@Mimif – thank you for listening to my rambling! It doesn’t make sense to me that TV Cersei gets to be regent if Tommen is of age to be bedded. He should be of age to rule as well. Unless it’s like some bars – 18 to get in, 21 to drink. Doesn’t make sense to me. I think HBO screwed that up in changing the books to heighten the Maergery/Cersei drama.
@Bridget, James Purefoy will always be my Marc Antony and his “now that’s an exit” will always be my favorite television line of all time.
Stannis’s wife is horrible. I loathe that character for the way she treats her daughter. I am not so sure the fire witch wants to burn Stannis’s daughter, as she made a comment to the useless mother about “who cares about a facial scar, she has royal blood I her veins”. It’s the mother that’s got to go and I hope they give her a painful death.
Hm, excellent points, Cindy. I’m not one to advocate anyone dying in a fire, but if someone has to go, it should be Selyse.
I think I dork out over GoT and get a little overzealous! 🙂
*sits next to Cindy*
And Ramsay.
I ain’t sitting anywhere near that salamander!
I am putting money on Shireen making a strong surprise showing here! The sad pathetic little girl getting turfed is to obvious. I say she rises up eventually.
I would love it if both Shireen & Sansa become power players. The show needs some more strong women IMO.
First of all.. thak you Kaiser for this playground. House of Celebutches is very happy about it.
Second of all.. HODOR!
WHERE TO BEGIN?
When I saw Melissandre playing sexy doll with the Lord Commander I was like
‘Get your hands off MY Jon Snow you dirty hoe!’
but then i realised that if she had sex with Jon she could have birthed a shadow assassin to kill Roose Bolton in Winterfell.
So yeah.. I’m kind of pushing for it now.. but something tells me that Jon Snow is against witchcraft and he wouldn’t let a shadow to do his job.
At this point I think Melissandre has seen something in the flames and she has realised that Stannis is not the Azor Ahai and she’s now moving her interests on Jon Snow. No doubt she’ll now help him to rescue Sansa.
Can I just say I miss Tywin? He was the only one able to knock some sense into Cersei which at this point deserves everything coming her way when the crap hits the fan.
About Jon Snow parentage: Benjen will come back at some point and I hope he’ll be the one to tell him about his true family tree. Surely Ned has told the secret to his brother. Benjen is a ranger so the secret was pretty safe with him… and considering people dies like flies in GoT I’m sure Ned was wise enough to keep the secret alive in someone he really trusted like Benjen.
I agree. Excellent playground.
Loving the discussions here!
Oh, we don’t want anyone to knock sense into Cersei.
I just enjoyed Lord Tywin.. he was such a safety net for the show. His presence was very important for the Lannisters and now that everybody else has fled the capital Cersei can do anything she wants. Even the craziest things.
You’re right, knocking sense into her would ruin the drama. But DAMN, I wanted to knock her azz out last night! She is the Queen of Sh*t Storms.
@Olenna
and the Mother of D-ckHeads.
Agreed. So glad Cersei regained her footing this episode. Lena Headey is so good.
@paola…This!
Cersei really is a scheming, treacherous witch isn’t she?
Beware of suddenly pious cousins
@Lilacflowers, exactly! That self-righteous little cousin-f’r got his shot at redemption, but damned if he was going to give it to anyone else. Just slit their throats and drive on. Cersei has created her biggest monster *yet* with this crew of wackjobs. Now, what’s in the basement is another story!
I don’t even know where to begin, which is fabulous because that means that I can make 100 comments here today (again). Dude. I totally think Baelish knows Jon’s parentage. When he and Sansa were in the crypts and she’s all yeah then Rhagaer kidnapped and raped Lyanna, the look on his face! He. Totally. Knows.
Also, Tyrion’s face when he saw the dragons when they previewed next week’s episode! HODORRR!
Additionally, weak ass scene when the Red Witch tried to seduce Jon. Please, put your tittays away. And paola, I totally get why the Sand Snakes annoy you. Their accents, ugh.
If he knows… why he never said anything???
Baelish is such an a-shole and he uses any piece of information for his own good.
Why keep the secret??
I know. The accents are a major turnoff.
Hey, hi mimif 😉
Maybe he’s keeping it a secret bc he needs Sansa to believe she’s the rightful heir to Winterfell. Homegirl needs some confidence, especially since he’s leaving her alone to go to King’s Landing. Btw, what’s the deal with that? He still working for the Lannisters?
And stop with the creepy Sansa kissing, Littlefinger. Stop.
I’m not sure he knows about jon specifically, but that look sure shows he knows lyana was not kidnapped nor was she raped. That scene definitively has some purpose. Also, I hate Cersei and that dumb boy of hers. I wonder what is Margaery gonna do and I hope she gets Cersei really good. I missed Arya and that preview with Tyrion and the dragon was freaking awsome!
Abbott I believe baelish is leaving Winterfell to leave Sansa and the Boltons alone and see what happens. I’m not worried about Sansa. Brienne is there to help plus Jon Snow will now of Sansa’s betrothal to Ramsay soon enough. And he’ll waste no time in getting things in control.
I hate Baelish so much.
On a Ramsay Bolton’s scale.. I would say a 7.
The Sand Snakes were sort of weak. I don’t know if it’s because there were so many strong scenes from already established characters? I kind of didn’t care. Were they different in the books?
Aboott, Ellaria Sand was never looking for revenge over the Lannisters. And the sand snakes were different yes.. it’s 7 of them and not 3 and their cousin Arianne (one of the most importand Characters in Dorne) is not in the show. So I have no idea of what is going to happen now.
@Abbott: Littlefinger is working for Littlefinger, but he’s smart enough to not burn his bridge. He’s woven a very, very big web. And Sansa is still heiress to Winterfell even if Jon isn’t a bastard: his Night’s Watch vows forsake any inheritance/title etc. It’s why Sam’s father packed him off to the Watch, so his little brother could inherit. **Side note** I think this is the reason why the 5th book ended on Jon’s cliffhanger.
@Paola: I actually like Littlefinger. He’s not my favorite character, but he is one of the very few that has any common sense practicality. He could absolutely know the secret of Jon’s parentage but since he doesn’t have any use for it yet he hasn’t mentioned it. That man is about the long game.
I think Baelish is probably one of the most influential characters in the story, maybe even more so than Varys/Illyrio. I mean, he got Lady Lysa to poison Jon Arryn and start the whole thing in motion, right? If he did know Jon’s true parentage, well wouldn’t he just have the key to the universe. Knowledge is power, and all Little Finger wants is power. HODOR!
Good point, Bridget. I didn’t think that one through. If Littlefinger bites it, I really hope it’s Sansa who gets the honor.
Sansa’s face when Petyr said wardeness…she’s like but but I can’t, I’m just a delicate flower. He’s totally got her wrapped around his Little Finger (sorry), like some sort of Stockholm Syndrome shit. I hope she steps up and takes the whole lot of them out. Aside from Baelish being a power hungry troll, I really do think Catelyn (and now Sansa by proxy) is still his one true love, and most of his motivations stem from that.
Mimif: That’s been the one constant in Littlefinger’s life: he always loved Catelyn. Sansa is now the closest thing he’ll have to her. The rest of his motivations… are murky. He’s a survivor and a power player.
I think his motivations are pretty clear: Money, Power, Knowledge, Tully, not necessarily in that order. I would have put King in there, but I think he prefers to play behind the scenes.
I am pretty sure that Baelish would never want to be king. Kings get manipulated and he is the one manipulating everything and everyone.
I have not read the books and am a little lost. Who is lyana and who was she raped by? Did I miss something?
Littlefinger is smart enough to never want to be king. The interesting part is that out of all the characters, he’s the one that’s most likely to see the writing on the wall and go to Dany’s side. Which is something I’ve been wondering about: how is there so little pragmatism in Westeros? Dany is a Targaryen with DRAGONS. Idiots keep trying to steal them, when it’s a mystical connection in her blood that binds them together. I’m amazed that no one’s (except for Dorne) seeing the writing on the wall and getting in with her early.
Lyanna is Ned Stark’s younger sister whom we never meet on the show (or in the books). She was betrothed to Robert Baratheon, but allegedly abducted and raped by Rhaegar Targaryen, which coincided with Robert’s Rebellion and the overturning of the Targaryen throne. She died under mysterious circumstances some time after her abduction.
thanks mimf.
@Abbott, the book Sand Snakes are different in number and they want revenge but not by hurting Myrcella. They intend to proclaim her Queen and challenge Tommen but bad things happen. The show is going a very different way
Oh my direwolf {OMD} r + l=j FITS to a T. It is SO OBVIOUS once you know what to look for~the rose petals falling fro L’s hand as she was dyng were from the roses Rhaegar gave Lyanna at the tourney. SQUEAL!
Cersie is going for broke with all these moves of hers.
Related- what I want to know is
– Why did she call Littlefinger back to Kings Landing and are the Seven going to capture him because he owns ground zero for sin?
– What is going to happen when Cersie’s FrankenHound is resurrected? So scary.
FrankenHound, OMG. Dead. Hahahaha!
I can’t stand Littlefinger, but I felt a moment of trepidation when he said he was returning to KL. They’ve busted up his brothel, locked up a Tyrell and sent another one off with a murderous flunky, so his fate, as the writers see it, is really hard tell at this point.
Lol mia girl, but it’s FrankenMountain. 😀
Am I the only one here that thinks Littlefinger is hot? QQ SHOW YOURSELF. Also, it blows my mind that Cersei is such a diabolical & vindictive bitch, that she would deliberately put her son in harm’s way to exact revenge against Marg.
It should really be FrankenMountain, but that doesn’t have as nice a ring to it.
Edit – OMG! Mimif – just noticed I posted my explanation at the same time as your post.
Edit again – I do find Littlefinger kinda hot. But that may be residual lust because I fancied Aidan Gillen from way back (Circle of Friends, The Wire)
mimif I always had the impression that Joffrey was Cersei’s only golden boy. It’s like she knows that King’s Landing is no fun anymore and she doesn’t care about her own fate as long as she can do the biggest mess possible around her. She doesn’t care anymore of who’s getting hurt or in the way. She knows Tommen is just too naive and he’ll succumb soon eventually with or without her help.
She just wants to stir things up.
@paola, yeah I think you’re right. Myrcella is lost to her, Joff dead, Tommen “betrayed” her by falling for Marg…why not just completely spin off the rails?
Yes. Aidan Gillen is hot. Season 1 brothel scenes I was like, “who dis”?
Cersei loves Tommen, but she’s pretty much lost it at this point. She’s like a rabid dog that’ll turn on anyone.
I think Littlefinger will try to marry Cersei to increase his power base. His endgame is to control all of Westeros, right?
Cersei would never ever sink to Littlefinger’s level, and now that Tywin isn’t around to arrange marriages for her, she can do whatever the hell she wants. I agree that Baelish wants ultimate power, but I just wrote upthread that he’s such a sneaky character, he most likely would prefer to remain in the shadows. Also, Cersei’s power base (not to mention her sanity) is slipping on the daily, so most likely she needs something from Baelish. Additionally, you’d think with all his spies, he knows exactly what he’s walking into.
The crown owes Littlefinger so much money that he doesn’t really need to do anything to consolidate his power. But he’s also the character that’s most likely to be able to read the shifts in power, so it’ll be interesting to see where they take this.
@Size
I always thought that LittleFinger only wanted to get rid of some certain people and interested at all in controlling the whole Westeros.
He’s a chess player. I think he enjoys the playing side of politics.
I’m at a loss as to where the Littlefinger/Cersei story is going, but it’ll be hella fun to watch these two try to out-manuever one another.
Littlefinger’s problem is, the only way for him to get power is through marriages or appointments, and appointments can be taken away. If he married Cersei, he could control Tommen. Is Littlefinger the valonquar?
I disagree @size. Littlefinger has money and knowledge. He’s already gained a ton of power.
Tommen is nothing, already suspected of being an illegitimate bastard born of incest, he’s useless to Littlefingers.
Valonqar could be gender neutral, I wouldn’t be surprised if “little brother” actually meant “little sister” and our little Arya puts Needle through Cersei’s neck. That’s my theory. Another theory I like (that I mentioned before) is that the Hound kills Cersei after a dual with his brother and Cersei’s bodyguard, FrankenMountain. Arya as Valonqar makes way more sense tho.
Valonqar? Is this the prophesy (or whatever) that witch told young Cersei about?
Ok, so maybe Littlefinger will do some favor for Cersei, who admittedly needs him for something. And in exchange she gives him RIVERRUN! Which is what he’s really wanted (along with Catelyn) all along. So many possibilities. Wait though, when they claim valonquar really means little finger instead of little brother, you heard it here first!
It’s me! I’m the valonqar. I’m the younger sister of three siblings.
I’ll take this one for the team guys!
@abbott
here’s the prophecy
‘Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.’
I hope it’ll be Arya. Or the Hound. Or Jaime.
I believe it’s going to be Jaime though. He’s the last person you would suspect and Cersei has a blind faith in his loyalty.
Plus in the books it’s repeated many times that he was born after Cersei making him a valonqar.
It could be Tyrion – he certainly hates her enough but I agree it’s going to be Jaime, she’s pushed him too far and he’s clearly falling for Brienne.
@Betti
Tyrion would be the easiest guess. We all know they hate each other to death. It would be too predictable. It has to be someone you would never expect.
I put my money on Jaime.
But maybe he doesn’t kill her in a physical way, it might be that the valonqar decrees Cersei’s end in some way, even indirectly. (You know the letter Cersei sends to Jaime.. and that he burns? That might be the ending of Cersei’s ‘existence’).
Also the prophecy tells us that all Cersei’s children will die before her.
Or maybe Tommen is the valonquar? That would be poetic.
@Size, oh I hadn’t thought of that! I don’t think it’s going to be Jaime, he’s changed too much. Everything is lost between them:
she openly mocks & degrades him and he’s realizing what a horrible bitch she is. While I think he will always love her, he’s also starting to pity Cersei and I can’t imagine what she could do to raise his ire enough to kill her.
Jaime might not lift a finger in order to save her life. That also means he killed her even if he didn’t do the physical act of taking her life.
(same as upthread.. the letter Cersei sent Jaime imploring for help to which he didn’t reply and burnt immediately after)
I’ve always thought that it was going to be Jaime and not Tyrion.
Jaime just seems so obvious to me, and you know how GRRM likes his riddles.
This is very interesting about the valonqar.
http://watchersonthewall.com/theories-valonqar/
Would it seem as obvious if we hadn’t had a decade to think about it?
Maybe Bran’s the valenquor and she shouldn’t have had Jamie hurl him out a window. And then, there is the missing Rickon, wherever he went
It could be Tommen too.
When we look at methods by which we have seen wights kill, strangulation seems to be one of the most favoured.
If Tommen was recently been killed and then the Others invade, he may well return as a wight and murder his mother.
Seriously, I am so happy that we now have GoT recaps here. Hodor!
I liked this episode, and was definitely moved by the Stannis / Shireen scene. It just goes to show that a man can be a total d*ck in some ways but have a heart of gold too. That said, the highlight (IMHO) had to be the battle at the end, I loved how Ser Barristan just bulled right in there and kicked all kinds of ass, never mind that he was badly outnumbered.
I was glad to get a peek at the Sand Snakes but I found them a bit underwhelming. Maybe I’ll warm to them more as the season progresses, IDK.
I’m gonna miss Barristan so much, such a gentleman. Agree with most everyone here and the recap that the Sand Snakes were rushed/poorly written/underwhelming. Have absolutely no interest in their storyline, except I feel it’s kind of obvious that there will be a showdown between them and Jaime/Bronn.
What I don’t understand is if the sparrows are so freaking devout and dedicated to punishing the sinners and blasphemers, why isn’t Cersei rotting in a cell next to Sir Loras??? Everyone KNOWS she’s been carrying on an incestuous relationship with her brother for forever. I mean, at the sept, the crowd was yelling at Tommin about being born of incest for heaven’s sake! So how can they justify not going after her?!
P.S. I love reading all the theories you and mimif toss around in here. I obviously have my own theories about things, but don’t really have a chance to research them, so I like getting the cliff notes on what everyone’s talking about from you guys.
I love these GoT posts so much. They’re amazing for theories and speculations.
Yesterday I learned that Hodor’s name is not Hodor but Walder.
So people were saying that ‘HODOR’ is some kinf of magic word or a secret code.
Maybe it’s the word to control dragons. Maybe Bran can warg a dragon saying this magic word.
Or maybe Hodor can control the dragons in the north through this word!!
I’m going crazy!
We want theories, Rachel! Good point about Cersei’s amnesty, unless the High Sparrow called for it because he needs her for something. I mean, her cuz already called her out for being a murderous whore, so the High Sparrow has to know, right? Did you read the books, Rachel? JUST WAIT. 😀
What the what? WALDER!
WALDER!!!!!!
Hodor is something he came up with at some point and he got suck with it.
Rachel Personally.. I feel like this little thugs of the faith army are gonna come to roost and she won’t even see it cause um: People already are openly yelling at Tommen in the street about being a Bastard with no compunction so is only a matter of time in coming
You mean she hasn’t run afoul of them YET Rachel 🙂
I knew about Walder. I think that was in the books about the time the Frey boys came to stay at Winterfell. Lots of Walders running around. I think I may have to go back and revisit Old Nan’s explanation of Hodor for clues.
I suppose I give the High Sparrow too much credit. I had thought he would be above Cersei’s bribes, but alas, he’s playing the game just like everyone else. Although he may just be biding his time, until he has a firmer power base, to make his move.
I’m on book 4. We’re taking a small vacay in Florida next week, so this girl will be power reading some GoT on the beach!
This show really isn’t good for my blood pressure. I’m always so angry when it ends! A 50 minute episode, and they waste the first 10 minutes on the intro! We know where everything is by now! We don’t need a map! I need more of the actual story!
WAIT! If HODOR is really Walder, then that makes him a Frey, right? Run Bran, run! Or maybe not.
Nah I don’t think he’s a Frey, besides, the real Walder Frey only throws females, right? Osha said HODOR has the giant’s blood in him anyway. 😉
It seems to me like Hodor-walder was the victim of a spell and he has lost the plot as a side effect. If he’s stuck with that only word it means it is very important for the sake of the story.
Yes, why isn’t cersei in a cell too, for incest? I also love these posts because I have not read the books and they are like cliff notes because GoT characters and family lines can be so confusing if you don’t keep up.
There’s a few reasons why she’s not in a cell: 1) she’s the one who gave permission for the order to form in the first place, so they are indebted to her. 2) she’s the mother of the king – they need to have evidence first. They can’t just grab her. 3) just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean that it won’t.
@Rachel, as I said above, beware of suddenly pious cousins.
The sparrows haven’t gone after Cersei yet either because they haven’t caught her in action yet OR nobody has testified against her yet.
I’m curious what they will do with the Tyrells. In the books, Cersei sends Loras off to battle and he suffers a nasty accident. Here on the show, they seem to be having him fill the place of another character.
Cersei’s Jealousy and stupidity and Margaery playing this game of chicken with her is going to be the downfall of them BOTH
Was a little taken aback at how fast Margaery lost her cool re: her brother. Like come on, QUEEN, where’s your composure? Like Cersei isn’t going to make you suffer, pfffft.
Jon Snow is a warg who worships a tree. Not sure he’s opposed to magic.
Jon Snow had a dead hand come back to life and try to kill him. I don’t think he’ll be opposed to anything in this circumstance.
Last night was pretty much a confirmation of who Jon Snow’s parents really are. And why he’s with us to the end as the most important character.
I also liked the scene with Stannis and his daughter. I’ve come to realize I like Stannis so much better when he’s not in a scene with Melissandre. I can’t stand that character.
Me either, she’s so over the top. I feel like she needs to be on Cinemax, not HBO. I love Shireen, she’s so sweet. Her mother is so twisted and we all know Stannis is a turd in a punch bowl, but that scene with his daughter was very touching indeed.
Melisandre said about Shireen:
‘Scars mean nothing to the Lord of Fire’
If she’s going to burn Shireen (because it’s the purest death) I will enter my tv with a hammer.
@paola I will deadlift Westeros into rubble. But you know they’ll do it…
Oh, it’s going to happen Paola. They’ve been setting it up for the past season. Alluding to it.
I feraking hate that red b*tch. I could just sense she was going to go after jon when she started her questions about his virginity and showed interest in him.
If that lame witch lays a finger on that sweet girl I am going to birth my own smoke-monster baby and wreak havoc on Westeros.
Rachel,
I’m sure Stannis would stop that. That’s why we had that emotional father-daughter moment. To show us that Stannis is, after all, a loving father.
Abbott
ahaah I like your attitude!
I couldn’t figure out what it was about Mel that I wasn’t into, but you nailed it!
I’m kind of dying to know about the grayscale. The wildlings are convinced that it’s never dormant. Poor Shireen.
Y’all are killing me. @Bridget, I can’t remember if it was here, reddit, or in my own head, but there’s some predictions that there’s going to be a full blown greyscale epidemic throughout the lands.
I’m wondering too. Of course, there’s an awful lot of different elements in play right now, and adding grayscale might just throw this whole thing over the edge into ‘too much’. But I think something bad is going to happen to Shireen, even if it’s not at the hands of Melisandre.
I was reading that it takes 3-4 hours to apply the greyscale to Shireen’s face, so can you imagine the budget if half of Westeros got it? Prob not going to happen, unless they just CG’d it.
In that case, main characters that would be featured in close ups and on camera would get better makeup work done, while background folks would probably get quick prosthetics. It would be a lot of work, but not impossible.
Oh god you guys are right, they really might burn that sweet girl. God I hate the fire witch grrrrrr….I am hoping stannis comes to his senses and saves his daughter, especially if fire witch is is going to abandon him in favor,of Jon snow, maybe he’ll realize she is pure evil.
“I feel like she needs to be on Cinemax”
Oh my god. This is perfect.
No joke, I always groan when she appears. She is a total buzz-kill to my GOT high.
She needs to quit with the fillers. The silhouette with her muppet lips when she’s all oh Jahn I’ve gaht aa plumbingg prahblum I neeedd youu was killing me.
She’s got a great rack though.
I have boobs envy now.
Don’t start paola, she only wants to make a shadow baby with you. 😉
I’ve actually always thought she was a Cinemax-y kind of character, even in book form. She’s so absurd and over-the-top, it’s a little out of place, but it at least makes things interesting.
This love Stannis but hate Melisandre. He would make a great king once he sheds himself of her & his looney wife. He has a bad women picker.
But that’s the thing: he really wouldn’t. He’s too rigid, and too concerned with his own honor.
Love your GoT recaps, Kaiser!
Thank you!
Ditto, thanks Kaiser!
Yes Kaiser, a THIRST for your GOT coverage. Gotta tell you, I was kind of stunned at the ending, at all the social chaos, and then I wondered what YOUR take on everything would be! You all are now part of my GOT experience. 🙂
Books? We don’t need no books!
Sansa is clinging to the Baratheon version of events for Lyanna and Rhaegar. The only people who know the Stark version of events were Lyanna and Ned and neither one of them ever spoke about it.
Princess Shireen has always been one of my favorite characters.
I’m sure Benjen knows. He’ll have to come back at some point and explain a lot of things.
I wonder if Benjen knows. Somebody has to know (mentioned this upthread). So much sadness for one of my fave characters at the end…
I’m sure Benjen knows.
Ned wasn’t so stupid to let THAT secret die with him.
Who better than his own brother to share such a secret about their sister??
He couldn’t trust anybody else. No Robert. No Catelyn. None of his kids, let alone Jon. (he was too young to cope with that kind of information).
Benjen knows and I’m sure he’ll be back soon.
He’s now probably enjoying rounds of Casa Friendzone playing cards with the White King.
Ned was so stoic tho, I can totally see him being like I SHALL TELL NO ONE, but that would be fantastic if Benjen did know. Maybe that’s why he was always so loving towards Jon.
And he left wtih a perfect timing. Maybe to keep the secret safe. Ned was no stupid, he knew he could have died any day. He had to share the information with somebody he truly trusted. Someone within his family. Maybe that is what Lyanna told him. He made a promise but we don’t know the exact words.
She might have said something like
‘Promise me you’ll keep the secret safe. Keep my son safe. Raise him as your own. Don’t let the secret die but keep it safe! PROMISE ME NED’
Benjen knows!
Paola: Howland Reed!!! He knows! He was there!
Also, it’s most likely that the Stark/Baratheon version of events is what everyone believes. Ned held this secret for his entire adult life and marriage. This was the one thing that besmirched his honor – remember how many times someone has referenced that Ned’s fathering of a bastard meant that he wasn’t in any place to be so moral? And remember how much Catelyn hated Jon, because he was a constant reminder of his husband’s infedelity? Ned didn’t even tell his wife what happened.
Bridget you’re right!!!
BUt.. there is a but!
He was not in the show.. so I guess that even if it was Howland Reed in the book it’ll be Benjen Stark in the show.
He went away long ago and he’ll have to bring something to the story when/if comes back!
He couldn’t tell anybody apart from his ranger brother or Howland Reed ( he was there anyway) to not put Jon’s life in danger.
Robert would have sliced him in 2 if he knew that Jon was Lyanna’s and Rraeghar’s son.
Would you have trusted Cat??
I wouldn have NOT!
She was the one that kidnapped Tyrion while Ned was the King’s hand!!Well done Cat, it’s all your fault!
She was beyond stupid and too fiery.
He’s not in the show YET. And remember, some theorize that he actually is :).
Now, it’s possible that the folks that make the show want to keep things a little more streamlined and don’t want to add even more giant threads and characters, but if they don’t add Howland I think it’s more likely that they’ll use Littlefinger to give the exposition rather than add Benjen back in (who’s more likely to be a Wight than anything else)
Haha! Howland Reed is…is…something about a little bird? Re: Benjen, why even bother introducing him in the show if he’s not going to reappear tho.
PEOPLE! Why haven’t we discussed HBO’s major slip up yet?! Dude on the horse totally looks like Benjen.
http://io9.com/this-accidental-game-of-thrones-spoiler-just-changed-1568796246
mimif: If that’s the case, it’s not the first slip up. Remember when they accidentally subtitled one of the Others as the King of Winter?
Oh! Maybe Benjen is stuck at Hardhome and comes back this season!
@Bridget, that’s the slip-up I linked. 😀
Oops. Serves me right for typing something quickly while sending a child off to the bus 🙂
Anyhoo. I am curious about that one. It was a slip, but the main implication is that he would be the a person who became an Other and not a wight.
Yeah, it’s interesting, especially since the story of the Night’s King is purely anecdotal and really anything could have happened. I will pee my panties if it turns out the Night’s King really was a Stark.
Oh, he’s going to be a Stark. And don’t forget that the Starks have their own mystical connection – a Stark NEEDS to be in Winterfell.
Copy that, Bridget, loud and clear. 😀
ETA: You do not have clearance to leave!
I suspect Howland Reed would know more than BenJen Stark. Also, the Martells have a very different view of what happened. Go back to last season and watch some of the exchanges with Oberyn and Tryion and Cersei. He described Lyanna as running off with Rhaegar, not being abducted by him.
I actually think a lot of people in Westeros know that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar willingly, that it was only Robert who really believed that Rhaegar “kidnapped” Lyanna.
… and people let him run with that one cause everyone was Over Targaryens
I mentioned this above, but that’s not likely. Ned didn’t even tell his wife the events of the Tower of Joy, he took the secret to his grave.
I feel like they are veering way off book, now.
Which annoyed me at first, but then I realized book 6 won’t be completed before they start filming season 6, and book 7 will not have even been started by the time they start filming season 7. So they may as well go off book and make their own ending… like HBO did with the Sookie Sackhouse stories.
If the books are even written.
Hi lilacflowers! I’m a bit lost.. What did you mean beware of suddenly pious cousins?? I’m trying to work out who you meant lol
I’m enjoying these GOT posts so much I haven’t commented yet as I haven’t read the books but I love the show and this is great fun to read afterwards…
@Katebush, Lancel Lannister is a sparrow.
The best scenes were Stannis and Shireen & the final battle with Barristan. It was really crappy that TPTB didn’t tell the actor until he asked a line producer about it. I do love the fact that the actors love being on the show and care about it so much. I was hoping for a bigger role for Barristan but with Tyrion and Jorah on their way, I can see Tyrion fulfilling that role, using his KL knowledge to get in Dany’s inner circle. I think Grey Worm is still alive but he may succumb to his injuries in a later episode.
As good as Kit was in episode 3, he was not that great last night and I am tired of Melisandre using sex as a weapon. And “You know nothing, Jon Snow,” is getting old.
I thought the Kings Landing storyline would be better but it’s dull and it seems like a demented version of Everybody Loves Raymond with Tommen as Raymond, Cersei as Marie and Margaery as Debra.
The Sand Snakes felt rushed to me and it seemed out of place as well. I feel like the show is telegraphing Bronn is going to die with the “I want a boring death” and Jaime promising him a better wife and keep if he comes to Dorne with him. And how about Jaime saying he wants to kill Tyrion?
@Paola, never thought of the possibility that Melisandre was trying to get with Jon to make a shadow baby to kill Roose. That’s a good observation. Of course, if she explained it to Jon, perhaps he might have gone for it. But knowing Jon, no.
Thanks for the recap!
Melisandre should have just been a bit more straightforward and tell him why she needs him to get rid of Roose Bolton.She could solve this problem in like 5 minutes.
But noooo. She had to get him to touch her boobs and ride him like a horse. ( Which for the average man would have a decent rate of success)
Drama. Drama Drama.
LOL. You’re right. He probably still wouldn’t have done it, but yeah…
You said horse. DROGO!
oh my god. Drogo.
Seconded. I thought the introduction of the Sand Snakes felt a bit forced and artificial. I still liked the Sand Snakes – the whole scene was just not really fitting in organically with the rest IMO.
The Sand Snakes shoulda had their own episode .. and also a different look each, the book goes on and on about how they are each lovely but markedly different.. also I Love the girl they casted for Obara and all BUT Obara in the books was um.. Brienne of Dorne Basically
I think the “you know nothing” was letting Jon know that she in fact, knows everything about him. Agree that’s she’s tiring tho.
She’s a witch and she knows things. So she knows everything and Jon as usual knows jacks-it.
Mel with that was just trying to awake his -ehm- dragon.
Mission failed Mel. try again.
Gotta admit, as much as I tired of Ygritte saying it, that line to end last night’s scene was great.
His face. He’s like, fook, not this again. I thought it was sweet that he said he still loved Ygritte.
“You know nothing” has sort of taken on new meaning for me. As in, “you don’t even know who you really are, so you know nothing.”
@Size, that’s how I read it too.
I was so sad about Ser Barristan! But I loved that his heroic nature showed and that he never hesitated to wade into battle against terrible odds. I’m going to miss him, but maybe that leaves an opening for Ser Jorah’s return? The scene with Stanis and Shireen was lovely. That warrior king loves his little girl.
It’s made clear in the novels that Stannis, despite being a cold fish, loves his daughter. Mel does not attempt to seduce Jon Snow in the novels, at least not overtly, with her sexuality. She tries a more subtle approach, offering him political power, but you know HBO, always find a way to get a woman naked. Re: Little Finger, the winter roses story, and Jon Snow’s paternity; recall in Season 2 when Daenerys was in the House of the Undying, and she sees blue (winter) roses growing out of a wall of ice. This clue, and many others, point to the pivotal figure in GoT. Mel knows it too. That’s why she wants Jon on her side. Who he will turn out to be, precisely, isn’t known, even from the novels, but he’s certainly much, much more than Ned Stark’s bastard.
+1 HODOR to everything you just wrote. Nice job on the winter roses. 🙂
You’ve got the best sword rivalling the skill of Arthur fickin’ Dayne, the best in Westeros and one of the best in all of Planetos get cut down in an alley by a few faceless, unknown Harpies, right before ser Barry’s two best most kickarse awesome scenes in the book? And you could’ve had the freakin PHALANX-TRAINED few Unsullied pull a two-way Hot Gates of the 300 spartans and poke their way out of there, but instead all of our boys were sacrificed ingloriously so they could set up Jorah and Tyrion as Dany’s chief advisors?
Poor Barry.
*froths at the mouth, need to get rabies shots*
You’re making way too much sense. 😉
I squealed when they revisited Lyanna’s story during the ‘Previously On’ recap.
This episode delivered some great lines:
‘Are you and mother not getting along?’
Oh Tommen. These ladies will crush you.
‘I think this one is slow enough now’ I’m digging the Jaime and Bronn road show.
I’m also digging Jon as Lord Commander. He’s kinda hot when he’s lord commanding stuff.
I kinda feel sorry for Tommen. He is such a puppet.
Also, I wonder what Joffrey or Tywin would have done with Westeros’s ISIS. It would have been epic!
Yes, the writers do companion road shows really well (ah, The Hound, R.I.P.). Bronn is such an a-hole, but I love watching him. And poor Tommen…dazed and confused; he was pitiful to watch, LOL!
I love watching Bronx too! He’s so sexy and charismatic.
Tom is even worse than Jon Snow. ok, well Jon is manning up but every time Tommy talks it sounds like a whimpering puppy who just peed on a carpet. I can’t even imagine him and Mags in the bed. what the hell do they do there? play clapping games?!
He’s just a kid! For that matter, so is/was Snow.
Totally feeling the Lord Commander this season too (sorry paola). Tommen is f-cked, but he has really good eyebrows. And lol @ Westeros ISIS, Lili.
I told you. We can share 😉
I cried a little during the moment between Stannis and his daughter. I’m just barely keeping in front of the show with the reading. Every time I finish a few chapters in “Feast of Crows” the follow episodes play out those chapters. Although, I do know I am seeing parts of Dance of Dragons”.
Hodor schmodor. Can we talk about the hunk’s hair?
You’re here! It’s pretty fabulous, isn’t it?
It’s like being a stranger in a strange land. It’s akin to a Cumberbatches thread with the stans. At least there are still curls left to talk about here.
That’s how I felt on yesterday’s Age of Whatron post; I have absolutely no clue what anyone is talking about, and I never ever will. At least there’s not too much name calling here (like with Cumby), although there’s plenty of crazy.
@kiddo His moping hair game was on point this episode. Extra sad and emo.
Thanks Abbott, I’d really like to ask him abbott it.
Dying. Use my hbogo, Kiddo, so you too can waste your entire Monday here.
r.i.p. Grey worm 🙁
I don’t think he’s dead yet!
He’s totally not dead yet.
Not dead
Will one of our book readers explain why I’m supposed to care about the Sand Snakes? I mean, I get that they’re mad Oberyn died but it was during trial-by-combat. He voluntarily fought the Mountain. Is that reason enough to drag Dorne into war?
Essentially, Dorne doesn’t need to be dragged into war. They’ve been biding their time this whole time.
@Abot, Oberyn was trying to avenge the death of his sister, Elia (Rhagaer’s wife). That’s why he got the Mountain (per Tywin’s bidding) to admit he had raped and killed her and her small children. So as Bridget mentioned, they’ve got some shit to be pissed off about.
I will confess as a book reader that I’m not into the sand snakes in any medium. Ijust skim those chapters on a reread. I want more Tyrion! More Arya! More Bran!
The Sand Snakes, like their father, have raging tempers but the Martells have reason for their long-standing grudges. They also have a grudge against the Tyrells but that’s never really explained. Any way, Prince Doran, Elia, and Oberyn were siblings. Elia married Rhaegar Targaryen and had two kids. When Robert’s rebellion broke out, over whatever happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark, Tywin kept the Lannisters out of it until Robert killed Rhaegar. Then, he sent the Mountain after Rhaegar’s family, killing Elia and her kids and presenting their bodies to Robert in a show of loyalty. Doran has been quietly scheming and plotting ever since but never shared anything he was doing with Oberyn, because Oberyn couldn’t keep his mouth shut.
Sooooo… watching the promo for episode 5… Ramsay is banging Myranda again.
Nothing good will come out of there. Run Sansa. Run.
Myranda will be his plaything while he falls for Sansa. Like the psycho that goes out and commits heinous crimes, but then comes back to his perfect family, is how I think it’s going to play out. Except Myranda is going to get crazy jeal, try to exact some sort of revenge, and Roose will order Ramsey to dispose of her. More useless drama, IMO. I want to see Tyrion ride a dragon. lol
Tyrion is the best character. Honestly. Rewatching the previous seasons I just got to the conclusion that he is simply the best.
What about Bran? Is he going to show up this season? I want him to say Hodor to a dragon and see what happens!
Most importantly though I want Danaerys to do something. Anything. It’s time for her to leave Mereen and do something!!
Yeah.. Myranda will get jelous and when she’ll try to kill Sansa ramsay will use her as a female Reek.
In Italian I would call her Reeka.
So Reeka is now in big trouble and she’s about to get her ass flayed and this is when Sansa walks in the room and realises that she is in an episode of Dexter/NipTuck
She’ll then realise that she needs Brienne’s help after all and by the time Little Finger is back all the Bolton are dead with the help of Stannis.
On the subject of Sansa (and of course right before I have to head out to do some work): don’t forget that there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.
I think it’s been established that there is no Bran/Hodor this season. Agree that Tyrion is a great character. Did you know that he was such a big hit in season one, the writers gave him much more screen time in season 2? And yeah, things need to happen with Dany, they’ve wasted sooooo much time on her boring character. The only way it will be worth it is if she becomes a villain like I’m hoping for!
Lmao @ Reeka. I forgot about Brienne…dude I hope Brienne axes Roose, how bad ass would that be?
@Bridget
Yes there must always be a Stark in Winterfell but when no Starks where in Winterfell nothing major happened. Nothing mystical. Nothing.
So what’s the point?
@mimif
Reeka is a as twisted as her f-ckbuddy. She deserves to get her ass flayed.
I see Brienne as the Neville Longbottom of GoT.
I hope she’ll carve Roose’s eyes out of their sockets as if his face was a piece of cake.
#teamBrienne
@Paola: YET.
To elaborate, it implies that the Starks must be in Winterfell in order to hold the North, as defenders against the Others. Their motto “Winter Is Coming” belies that constant vigilance.
Im repeating myself here, but I’m still not convinced it’s the Starks *against* the White Walkers. Wardens of the North could very well mean that they are protecting the Others, or perhaps their queen under the crypt, until the time comes when they need to resurface. You know, like when Dany hatches her dragons. The North Remembers. HODOR!
@paola “Tyrian is the best character”
Yes! He really is, he may be my favorite and dany needs him because she is a badas** but her politics are horrible. She should not have executed the man who murdered in retribution for her. She turned the people against her by doing that without first making it known that a trial must come before killing for justice IMO. Tyrian would not have let her make that mistake and I think he is the only one that could guide her properly in terms of politics. Dany and Tyrian are my vote for who should win the throne.
God I’m obsessed with this show. What is wrong with me?
Don’t worry, Cindy, you’ve come to the right place. This is the new normal. 😀
@mimif: My personal favorite theory that I’ve come across is that the Starks are bound to Winterfell because they’re the ancestral protectors of the sacred laws of hospitality.
And will love it if the Stark in Winterfell when everything goes crazy ends up being Sansa.
“I see Brienne as the Neville Longbottom of GoT.” Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the actual Neville Longbottom pop up at any time. There is so much crossover between the Harry Potter films, GOT, Downton Abbey, and The Hollow Crown, and now Wolf Hall. I get them all jumbled in my mind constantly.
Also, I have to add that I am glad Tyrian shot his father, and on the “privy” no less. He treated his children like sh*t and was sadistc to Tyrian for being a dwarf. Good riddance. Tyrian has never known acceptance and I think he and dany are soul mates. Not in a romantic sense but they have the same compassion and each makes up for the others weaknesses. Dany has courage and fearsomeness while Tyrian has the ability to socially navigate any problem.
What in the garbage sack hell is Carice van Houten wearing in that bottom pic?
Yeah. She shouldn’t get too close to her friend R’Hllor.
Lmao paolaqar
LMAO mimif!
I miss the days when it was just you and me on these threads. 😎
The more the merrier!!
We’re still going strong I assure you! <3
Ha, yes I agree! I just can’t keep up with all the crazy. 😉
I’m very worried for Sansa – Littlefinger seriously miscalculated here, IMO. I fear that something terrible will happen to her at the hands of Ramsay – but maybe this will bring Theon back into the action?
Theon is toast, there is no going back for him. His only redemption is if he can somehow manage to kill Ramsey, but I think his psyche is so damaged that he might not even be able to pull that off. Don’t worry too much about Sansa, Littlefingers knows what he’s doing. 😀
And Sansa is not that naive any more – i think she will surprise us all. She’s already (got blamed/the credit for) killed one husband and i think this time around she’ll probably do it for reals.
And i agree with mimif – Theon is broken beyond repair, he was never strong enough to begin with, and Ramsay has well and truly done a job on him. He may turn on Bolton but he won’t be able to pull it off.
@Betti
Technically Sansa wasn’t the one to kill Joffrey. She wasn’t even aware of what happened until it was pointed out to her.
She is famous all over 7 kingdoms for poisoning Joffrey but she had really little to do with it.
EDIT: sorry we’re saying the same thing!
Yes, theon is done for, he is definitely reek now. Ramsey has scary psycho eyes, I would love for Sansa to kill him but I don’t think she has it in her.
I wouldn’t give up on Theon.
agree with mimif. Theon is beyond repair. He was never the brighest bulb either. All he cared about was f-ck. He should belong in Dorne.
Plus Brienne will be there soon.. and Jon will receive a raven saying that sansa is betrothed to the son of the person who killed 40% of his family. Stannis too is going to Winterfell.
After what I hope is about to happen Winterfell should be renamed BoltonFellAndNeverGotUp.
Think Theon will help get her out & Brienne will find them. Something barely mentioned, when Littlefinger asked if she trusted him, she gave zero response. Littlefinger didn’t even catch on to her not responding. She just followed it with I’ll be a wife when you return. Think she will flee if she is given the chance because she doesn’t trust Littlefinger. If he trained her well as he believes, then she is playing him.
Why would she trust him? Dude is a certified rat and freely admits it. I think at this point she doesn’t really have much of a choice and needs to play her cards (close to her chest) where she stands.
Sansa has been lost since her dire wolf died. Arya’s dire wolf became a wild assassin and so did Arya
From the hints in the books its obvs that Jon is Lyanna and Rheagar’s son – a bit like the ones in the Harry Potter series about how Snape was in love with Harry’s mother. Ned’s obsession with honour means that there is NO WAY he would have cheated on Catelyn – and from the sounds of things his real identity may come out this series.
There are 3 dragons – one for each Targaryen; Dany, Jon and ???? (book readers will know this spoiler). As for the Dragons themselves – i think they have a big part to play in the battle with the White Walkers and there is more to them than breathing fire, they are a connection to that old magic (faces in the trees people) that keeps being mentioned.
As for Sansa – she’s heading down a dark road and once she realises that Littlefinger is using her, she will go all dark side – his betrayal will tip her over. When she and Arya finally meet up again – Westeros watch out, the North will bite back.
Cersei and Marg – their power struggle will not end well for them or Kings Landing, however i can see them teaming up to get rid of the Westeros ISIS. Marg still has a lot to learn about the game of thrones and Cersei, while losing a grip on her sanity, is still better at it.
Spoil it, who’s the third head? I don’t like any of my theories. Also, I think Sansa is going to become a total bad ass. Maybe not as cunning and calculating as Cersei (who’s legit insane) but equally formidable.
OK you asked for it.
Warning book spoiler ahead…………………….
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Paola below is correct, it’s Aegon – he survived. That’s all i’ll say – i don’t want to spoil it too much but he’s a very interesting character. Will be interesting to see where his character arc goes.
Dany, probably Aegon, probably Jon
Betti: Or is he real? We don’t actually know if he’s really Aegon.
@Bridget. Yes, its really him. He appears in the 5th book and the story of how he survived is told. But again he could be a red herring thrown in by Martin but i doubt it.
As i said its 3 dragons for 3 targaryens – thats my take on the plot and that’s how its been in the past (1 targaryen to 1 dragon, never 1 with multiple dragons). Things are coming full circle for that family and at the end one of them will retake the Iron Throne – now the real question being, which one! My money’s on Aegon – Jon won’t take it and Dany has already proven she’s a sh!t Queen/leader.
My plot for the Starks is that the North will rise up for revenge led by Sansa (once she’s killed Ramsay and taken command of his forces). Arya will come back an assassin and pick off the Stark enemies one by one, eventually teaming up with her sister.
Cersi will end up either dead (killed by one of her brothers) or a nun. Margarey will end up a widow again and will rule on her own for a while until a Targaryen or Stannis turns up (then its death or marriage for her).
Stannis will eventually tire of Melissandre and will get rid of her – he’ll prob kill his wife as well as she will no doubt try and kill their daughter.
Tyrion will return and end up Lord of Casterley Rock. Jaime will marry Brienne.
Littlefinger will die – I can’t see him making it to the end alive. Same goes for Varys.
Theon will die either trying to save himself or attempting to kill bolton.
The Freys will get whats coming to them. Please give that old fk Walder a slow painful death.
Bran or Jon will lead the fight against the White Walkers – both have strong mystical connections. The dire wolves were paired with the Stark children for a reason.
Aegon is way too obvious for GRRM’s writing style tho, no? Fake Aegon (fAegon) makes more sense to me.
@Betti, nice synopsis but you forget the bit when HODOR! wakes up and it’s all a dream. 😉
LOL. Now that you mention HODOR!, i think he has a part to play in the battle with the white walkers. There is more to him and i hope we get his backstory – the wildling girl (can’t remember her name) has hinted as much.
I have a soft spot for our gentle giant.
Okay Betti, my turn:
SPOILER
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SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
Even if Aegon is in fact real (which again, we know what story Connington told, but we don’t know if it’s real) there’s still no guarantee that he’ll be the 3rd head. I think it’s Tyrion. Mad King Aerys was very ‘fond’ of Tywin’s wife Joanna, and it’s implied that Tywin’s betrayel of Aerys (if you remember, Tywin was Aerys Hand of the King and was the one who opened Kings Landing to Robert) was because Aerys raped Tywin’s wife. Consider Tywin’s last words to Tyrion: “You are no son of mine” or his utter insistence that Tyrion would never be Lord of Casterly Rock. Was it because Tyrion was a dwarf? Or was it because he wasn’t Tywin’s son in the first place? Tyrion even has the dragon dreams!!!
That’s paolanqar’s theory, I just stole it from her. HODOR! 🙂
Osha is the wildling girl (I miss her, the actress plays her so well) and yes she hints that HODOR! has giant in him. I can’t wait to see that crew again.
ahaha mimif!!
Yes that is my beloved theory: One day all this will end up as Hodor (Walder) will wake up from one of the most complicated dreams ever (a bit like ‘Inception’) and he’ll sit on the Iron throne as the true king.
And Cersei is his kitchen wench.
p.s. paolanqar will be my name from now on
@ Brigit. I like that theory – its has potential and would be quite the twist.
So that’s why I keep saying, we don’t know for sure if it’s Aegon.
Just saw your post, Bridget (posts are showing up out of order for me) and you know ITA. 😀
I think it’s Aegon mimif.
I think Aegon is fake, but you may be right.
I agree with mimif. I think it’s (not spoiling it for those that don’t know the other theory)
He won’t be in the show. I’m pretty sure of that. No one has never even mentioned his name so… maybe is Aemon. He’s still a living Targaryen even if he’s 100000 years old and blind.
Jaime is the third rider!!! Liberties taken by mad king during Joanna/Tywin’s bedding, incest, Aunt’s speech, Tywin telling Tyrion he’s not his son, Tywin’s hatred for mad king, Jaime’s weirwood stump dream, Cersei’s madness and fire obsession, Jaime’s non-Lannister name…
Hm. Interesting but I don’t think it’s Jaime either. Agree with paola that’s there has been no mention of Aegon in the show, so it would be sort of a weird angle to introduce at this stage of the game.
@Mimif – Aegon makes an out of place/plot appearance in the book, he and his ‘entourage’ just turn up. I would pay attention to Tyrion and his journey to meet Dany during the series, as thats when he turns up in the book. Thou i agree they may not introduce him in season 5 as there was no announcement on casting/no cast member unaccounted for but who knows they might surprise us.
@Size Does Matter – interesting idea but i agree i don’t think it’s Jaime. Tyrion however I could believe – he could be the result of the mad king forcing himself on Joanna, fueling Tywin’s hatred and exile in Casterley Rock.
Yeah, amazingly I remember that part of the book. Like you mentioned, the show would have to hustle to make that storyline play out in this season.
Oops – posted in wrong thread and now i can’t delete this one 🙁
*Sigh* I am way too invested in the world of Westeros – must get a life 😉
Any bets on how long Tommen lasts?
Also, Jorah is totally the Christian Grey of Westeros. No mean no, dude. Back off.
To the end of the series, if he’s lucky!
I won’t be sorry when he goes, he’s a broken man with no redeeming qualities. And in dire need of Chapstick as paola pointed out.
He’s a loser guys. His khaki ensemble along with his puppy eyes belong to a safari in Africa. Wrong casting in my opinion. he’s a terrible Jorah Mormont.
Lol Jorah Safari.
Tommen will be eaten alive by either Margaey or Cersei. They’ll have him for dessert.
Gawd I wish I knew what you lot were talking about. I shall sit in a corner and pout until my box set comes.
I’ve watched the whole series and still don’t know what some of the Celebitches are talking about 🙂
You should read the books as well – there is a lot of back info thats not in the show. Thou i have to admit i haven’t seen series 3 and beyond 🙁 I refuse to pay for Sky just to watch is and its not on Netflix.
@frisbee I’ll be waiting for you! 😀
I’ll be there, exhausted, deluded and saying lot’s of ‘methinks’ and ‘yegads’ and possibly even HODOR! by the time I’ve finished, I tend to get really into this stuff…
HODOR!
Just stick with “HODOR!!”, no methinks or yegads necessary.
I’ve read the books and watched the series and I still don’t know what i talk about!!!
Awww that’s so sweet…
Full on nerd monday mode.
It is May the 4th (be with you) after all.
I hadn’t realised it was Star Wars day – explains the grown men queuing all day outside my local Disney store 😉 The children weren’t half giving them odd looks LOL.
May the 4th be with you *DEAD*
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Ohmygodohmygodohmygod.
mimif I’ve found something. Spoilers about season 5. Do you want to see it??
There’s a warning that it might all be a fake though.
Hells yes I want to see it! Spoilers don’t scare me at all, especially possibly fake spoilers. 🙂
The link won’t go through…. I’ll post it on your IG.
Let me know if you got it.
tre..
due..
uno…
via!
Need to read again, brb. 😱
Holy f-ck I LOVE IT!
Um, how do we not discuss?!
Uhm.
I don’t know.
I don’t want to ruin things for all the posters on CB.
Oh yeah, we can’t here, we’d be beheaded. Lol. Wow. Totally sounds legit tho, even if it’s a fake there is still a lot of plausibility there.
Need to read again…
What is this witchcraft?
Bridget is about the whole season 5. major spoilers but it might be a fake.
Oooh, I don’t know if I want spoilers. Speculation, hashing, re-hashing, circle jerking – yes. But real spoilers? Hmmm.
I totally thought of you tho, Bridget. It’s pretty amazing. The descriptions sound pretty real to me, very visceral. Like, you’d have to be insane to come up with something that detailed. Or make as many posts as I have today on the subject.
How can we send that link to Bridget?
I think we need to be able to warg. Bridget if you’re on Instagram and want to know, I’m mimiffff and paolanqar is on there too.
Is there a bunch of ‘new’ material – are they working beyond the books? If so, I’m still undecided on spoilers.
no. not working beyond the books. Some things sound true, other seem like bs to me and mimif.
Ladies, I want to know! I’m on Instagram, how can I get the link? Have you posted it on somehow?
Hey Lili, it’s late now but if you see this, I’m mimiffff on IG. Comment one one of my pics and I’ll ask rabble rouser paolanqar to link it. 😀
I’ve read it! Sounds like most of it is accurate or at least likely, I’d say. I am stil not sure about Littlefinger and Sansa, though. And I am quite disturbed by the Jon/Shireen/Red B*tch storyline. Is it even predicted in the books or are they already jumping ahead of Martin’s plot?
mimif, is this normal for a GoT thread? 300 comments by 5p? I totally take back what I said on the Avengers post. Hiddles may have to do something outrageously unexpected for us to beat the numbers posted here. This is coming close to Cumberbatch Oscar Campaign levels of commenting.
This is the new normal, my friend. 😀
I’m very, very proud of us.
Comet Sophies all around! And Cheez-its too! And some Dornish red!
I’m proud of us, too! House Celebitchus beat the new real-life princess’ name announcement today! Maybe they should have named her Cersei.
Yasss LilacVulcan is ready to party!
ETA: @Size, I was just thinking we beat out HRH Charlotte in this Game of Thrones. 😛
And before I forget – Ser Meryn Trant, your days are most definitely numbered.
I just want Ser Baristan and my main guy Grey Worm (he is so hot!) to make it through! Is that so much to ask?! If they kill them just to make way for Jorah and Tyrion, I’d be very, very, very upset. Jorah can go to hell, no matter how much I love Iain Glen. I didn’t miss his character at all.
And for those asking how the Unsullied were bested, they are more of an open combat army. Their spears and shields don’t work in cramped spaces where they can’t use their weapons freely.
And also, I’ve been spazzing since Jaqen H’ghar/Tom Wlaschiha revealed himself to Arya. I’ve been waiting 100 years for him to re-appear!!! 😀