In the wake of the ongoing horror show that is the Duggar family, many sites have been offering more in-depth glimpses of just what the Duggars are all about, their belief systems and what amounts to their cult’s teachings. The Duggars are home-schooled and extremely sheltered about the outside world, especially the women/girls. They’re also very, very, VERY far-right politically, especially about social issues like reproductive choice, LGBTQ issues and, you know, women wearing pants. If you’ve been paying attention to the Duggars even casually before this Josh Duggar story exploded last week, you were probably familiar with the broad strokes of what this cult is all about. But it’s worth discussing some of the stories that have come out in the wake of the scandal.
Jessa Duggar’s father-in-law Michael Seewald is a nutburger too. Michael Seewald penned a lengthy blog post about his daughter-in-law’s brother and the larger scandal – you can read it here. I’m not going to post anything from it because the guy thinks everything is the media’s fault and his arguments fall flat. He also gets some jabs in there about how Josh was raised well and we are all born sinful, and thank God Josh didn’t get his sex education from Planned Parenthood. Seriously. I will give Seewald credit for one thing: he acknowledged the victims of Josh’s crimes and how terrible is must have been for them, which is more than Josh did.
Josh Duggar once made an on-camera incest “joke.” The video resurfaced over the weekend and it’s pretty gross given what we know now.
The police report has been destroyed. The documents pertaining to the 2006 investigation into Josh Duggar’s criminal acts on little girls were destroyed over the weekend, probably. In Touch Weekly filed a FOIA request for the police report, which is how this whole scandal blew up last week. Well… alright. I guess the investigation wasn’t ongoing then.
Gawker did a lengthy exposé on Advanced Training Institute. Go here to read. The Duggars are closely connected to the Advanced Training Institute, which is “a Bible-based homeschooling program run by alleged cult figurehead Bill Gothard.” Gothard also has his own sex scandal, just FYI. The Duggars follow Gothard’s home-schooling program… religiously. The program includes advice for parents on how to deal with a situation involving an older child sexually abusing his younger siblings. That advice mainly boils down to blaming the victims for dressing provocatively and behaving immodestly. Like, it’s a six-year-old’s fault for getting molested because she had evil friends, she was wearing the wrong clothes, etc.
Quiverfull mom compares Josh’s actions to “playing doctor.” Go here to read this total nonsense. I used to play doctor with a neighbor boy. We were the same age (5 years old) and we would practice kissing in my closet. That is completely and utterly different than a 14 year old groping and molesting his 7-year-old sister. And then doing it again to three other sisters and one other little girl. That we know about.
Dan Savage is my spirit animal. As he does with most things, Dan Savage is giving some great analysis on why the Duggar situation is so awful, so hypocritical, and so disturbing. Go here to read.
Photos courtesy of Josh’s social media.
Given how fervently other folks in the movement have defended him, and downplayed and dismissed his actions, I have the growing, sickening suspicion that this kind of predatory behavior is common in Quiverfull homes.
Michael Seewald’s argument lends credence to that — he basically said that the only people that don’t molest children are the ones who don’t have the opportunity to do so.
I am starting to believe the same thing. It is all so awful and sick.
It makes total sense to me that sexual repression would breed pathology. Just look at what’s happening with catholic priests.
Qwerty that is not the same at all. Priests that abuse kids were pedophiles or ephebophiles before becoming priests. Gay or straight priests that have trouble with celibacy falter with adult men or women. They use escorts, engage in casual sex or enter into relationships. Celibacy doesn’t make someone a pedophile.
@Jesmari,
Thank you for that. I’d also point out that there were quite a few studies done and more or less (some were biased in either direction), the percentage of priests who were pedophiles or ephebophiles were in life with the overall population.
The problem with the church is that they glossed over or hid criminal priests.
@qwerty,
I still agree that the Quiverfull movement breeds this behavior. It’s a combination of the submission to GOD and their Patriarch for the girls, the megalomania and absolute authority of the boys, mixed with the ridiculous amount of children so their parents don’t spot anything wrong with just one child.. no individual attention to anyone of them, why would a child so distant with a parent feel comfortable reporting to them? Particularly if it is also happening with other siblings and they have kept silent…
Finally, mix that with the sexual suppression and the normal, heightened sexual feelings (esp for boys) during puberty. Scary stuff.
@Jesmari
I’m not talking about celibacy, I’m talking about sexual repression.
After talking with people about this I’m starting to think I’m the only person who wasn’t/ didn’t know someone who was molested growing up. Was it sheltering or decent parenting? Who knows, but becoming so aware of how common this issue is so late in life has,made me feel disgusting. I want to lock my girls up forever now.
I guarantee you know someone who was molested growing up. They just haven’t told you about it yet.
@marie – I repressed my memories for twenty-eight years. My therapist said one in six girls has been molested by a family member, regardless of socio-economic class. You probably do know someone who has been injured in this manner. Sad to say.
It took 17 years for one of my closest friends to disclose that he had been sexually abused as a child by a member of his family – and when he did it split his family apart because some people, including his mother (!), supported the abuser. I was shocked because I had had no idea, although in retrospect there were some signs. You probably do know someone who has been molested; it is just too painful for them to talk about.
It’s not your girls who need to be locked up, it’s predatory pedophiles who do. Let’s not fall into the trap of assuming that it’s giving your children opportunities to live a normal life and to participate in society that’s the problem. The best thing you can do is talk honestly with your girls about the fact that, generally speaking, they have the right to control who touches their bodies, especially in private places, and that it is OK to tell an adult or an older child not to touch them; and that, if someone touches them in a way they’re not OK with, (a) it is not their fault and (b) they should tell you so that you can stand up for them.
And, yes, I guarantee you know someone who has been molested. It’s not something people tend to talk about, unless they have a specific reason to know that talking to you will be a safe space for them.
I love what you said Other Katherine
Great comment Other Katherine!
Society needs to start teaching boys to not be rapist / molesters. *yes, some women do too, but not nearly the amount of men whom molest* Instead, society blames it on the female. And in this sick case; the Cult they belong to seems to support it. What a sad, sad day.
I was molested by my step father and I told my mother.
Three times, and three times she ignored it, while it continued.
That betrayal was as horrific as his breathe on my neck and the rough, groping hands.
The Duggar story brings those awful feelings to the surface, once again.
I hope this scum burns in hell.
It must be. They don’t let brothers and sisters ‘front-hug’ each other because it ‘leads to temptation’. That’s a super weird thing to consider as a potential issue, even for fundies.
I grew up in a religion that has the same basic rules about dressing conservatively, dating etc., underpinned by the idea that you could tempt a man into sin. But there was never any suggestion that you could tempt your brother (or father, or uncle etc.), that just never occurred to anyone as a potential problem. You have to have a really sick mind to make that leap in the first place.
It makes incest normal. Saying ‘don’t be tempted by your sister’ is basically presenting that as an option. A ‘forbidden’ option, but in a religion that forbids all kinds of benign things, that just puts it on a par with girls wearing pants or watching TV unsupervised. Start that kind of talk at an early age and it wouldn’t surprise me to learn that molestation/sexual assault rates in these families were through the roof.
You make really good points, what great insight into how twisted their views really are.
They don’t even “front hug” their own parents! they boys seem to be taught that EVERY female is just a sexual object including their own family members. They don’t believe in dancing because it is too tempting. Noe of the follow their cousin in insta because she is not Quaker. Their a episode where Amy their cousin tell the family that she wants to go to Nashville to became a singer and Jim Bob freaks out!!!
A women having a job is too much for Jim Bob!!!!
Aussie, these people are not Quakers. Quakers are a completely separate and vastly more free-thinking religious group.
^This. My bestie’s dad is a Quaker. He’s a wonderful man, extraordinarily kind-hearted and a gentle soul—not a religious extremist in any way shape or form. In fact, I would describe him as spiritual, not religious.
Great points Jessica
The fact that they have laid down rules or guidance on how to deal with familial molestation, particularly of older boys with young girls tells me that they DEFINITELY have an epidemic of this in the movement.
IT’s not just that they have guidelines, it’s the level of detail of said guidelines. Heck the main religious books eg the bible or Koran or Torah don’t go into this much detail and we know they guidelines on everything.
Yes, exactly. Horrifying.
I agree, LAK. And I was sickened by their method of dealing with it. I just can’t read any more about this. It’s horrifying.
As with most cults, sadly sanctioned sexual abuse is the norm.
I agree.
The worst part, was how it was repeatedly stressed that molestation just hurts the lowest level of yourself, “the body”, and that it doesn’t affect the most valued part of yourself, “the soul”.
Essentially, they are telling predators that they aren’t really hurting these children on an emotional level at the same time they are telling the children that what was done to them wasn’t really that awful.
I’m with all of you in that it’s horrifying and specifically with you, GoodNames. I’ve read every posting and maybe two thirds of the comments from each and as much as I want to chime in and share, I have a visceral “dirty” feeling from this entire situation. It fills me with sadness and dread that this has taken place and how it’s been condoned-even by TLC itself!
There. *breathes* Now maybe I’ll be able to move forward with a clearer mind.
Completely agree guys. That there’s a way written oout to deal with this is bad. It must be a very common issue to need that. And that the way to deal with it is victim shame while the perp is told it isn’t his fault is sick.
TLC will pull this soon from the rumors within. Not because they are taking a stand against the Duggars. Because the sponsors are jumping ship and TLC only takes a moral stance when it hurts their profits.
@Tiffiany 🙂
Where did you read this “handbook?” Please link the grossness.
The fact that their homeschooling program includes instructions on how to deal with a child who molests his younger siblings lends credence to your theory as well, INeedANap. At best this behavior is expected, at worst it’s taught. Either way it’s absolutely disgusting. Horrifying. I can’t think of adjectives strong enough. The fact that there are people trying to rationalize this behavior makes me ache for women everywhere.
ETA: Lak, sorry for basically repeating your comment. Didn’t see yours before I posted.
Jessica, really astute commentary, thank you for sharing. ITA, the fact that they even consider it possible for young girls to tempt their family members is a clear product of insane sexual repression and a really twisted mindset. *shudders*
My step brother, before his dad married my mom was not allowed to be around his own sister because he had done something to her when he was 13… I think she was 8 or 9. He was allowed to be around my sister alone when he was 15 and she was 11, and his friend held her down while he raped her. My sis will be 25 now and seems to have moved on after years of issues, while he is in and out of jail, some charges related to sexual abuse, though I don’t talk to anyone involved, including my mom, so I don’t know, as she knew and did nothing, his dad found out and chastised my sister! I had a friend in high school whose brother did horrible sexual things to her in middle school as well- his parents never turned him in, just removed him from the house.
I also grew up at the tail end of traditions where dates were chaperoned. My aunt went on every date with her brother when he stated dating his wife. … at 15. It was normal. She remembers him shoving hey gave against the window in the car so he could kiss his gf without her”seeing”. My sister was on my first date with my husband.
So, my royndabout point is, some of this can be attributed to youth and not fully understanding what they were doing as sex is taboo in this house and they haven’t been taught healthy outlets for adolescent feelings, a slip I can be more forgiving of, especially since it supposedly started when he was 12, but for years
…… that is a pattern. I also understand there may have been some torment over it for the patents as most of the people involved were their children, even the perpetrator. No matter what the crime is, it would be hard to turn your own kid in. I wish they had done more to help him and keep the girls safe and get them counseling as well. My heart hurts for those girls. This hits way too close to home for me.
Melody, I’m so sorry to hear about what happened to your sister. That’s horrific, and I know these stories must be terribly hard for you to read. I hurt for your sister, and I hope she’s finding the peace and happiness she deserves after something so terrible. It’s amazing the way these young men are allowed so much leeway, but their female victims bear the onus of responsibility for the crimes committed against them. Around ages 8 and 10, I was touched inappropriately by a male babysitter and then a male family member. This is the first time I’ve acknowledged the incident with the male family member outside my own mind, so nothing could really have been done about that since no one knew. But when my mom came home and saw that my 16-year-old babysitter was holding my 8-year-old self on his lap, she told me that I needed to be careful. I needed to be careful, not him. It’s shameful, and I hope your sister knows full well that what happened to her is not her fault. Sending lots of loving energy to both of you this morning.
“His friend held her down while he raped her.” Melody, my heart goes out to both you and your sister. It is beyond sad that he was able to find a like-minded person in his peer group.
I just don’t understand how anyone could feel the urge to molest or rape a pre-pubescent child. This story and the many comments have increased my awareness that child molestation and rape are much more common than I thought. I will be alert to this possibility in the future and educate my children if I have any. I’m sad to say it, but I am not sure I would be able to hire a male babysitter and I will likely be suspicious of male teachers, even if most of them aren’t child molesters.
moomoo, I hear what you’re saying about male babysitters and teachers, and understand your fear. But females who work in those professions can be predators, too. I have a male friend who is a pre-school teacher, he is so awesome. The kids always flock to him like he’s the Pied Piper. I think it’s so refreshing and so good for young kids to have male role models in the classroom. I know my boys have loved whenever they’ve had a male teacher.
But back to my friend, he says he had a hard time making people believe his motivations for wanting to be a teacher were pure. I thought that was so sad. And he makes sure to try to never be alone with any kids, just because he knows people might automatically be suspicious if he is.
Thank you for sharing Shambles. I wish healing for you.
@Esmom, you’re right. I’m still reeling from learning how common it is for adults to sexually abuse children. As I said elsewhere, I just cannot fathom any adult being “stumbled” by a pre-pubescent child. I feel bad for your friend and suspect that the vast majority of male teachers have normal, good intentions. I really have not suspected male teachers/babysitters in the past. I do wonder what is the ratio of male:female predators.
It seems that educating children is the best defense against molestation, but sometimes is not enough, particularly in younger children. It doesn’t help that other adults protect the offenders and even when they are exposed, our society seems to have no good way to handle these offenders. I suspect most of them cannot be rehabilitated.
As much as I hate this family and most of their “values,” maybe they have done some measure of good by bringing this topic to the spotlight. Small comfort to Josh’s victims.
My tinfoil hat theory, which is horrible and makes me feels super icky:
One of his victims was Jana. This has left her with major psychological scars and that’s why she is single.
A healthy sex life after being assaulted is difficult enough without the twisted view this family has about female sexuality.
Jana always looks so sad and dead behind the eyes too. It’s bad enough that she is more of a Mother to her younger siblings than Michelle is, but she was forced to live under the same roof as her abuser for years and has been loaned out to her molester and his wife to be a nanny to their children, on several occasions. She must feel trapped and broken. She’s also been sent away to “Journey to the Heart” multiple times. It’s their cults program for girls who need to get their heart right with God. It’s all so awful.
Freaking this. Michelle sounds like a HORRIBLE mother and Jim Bob sounds like THE WORST father.
I had that thought too.
The report says the eldest daughter was not molested (Jana), just the other four, which at that time would be Jessa, Jill, Jinger and Joy-Anna. I have my doubts that Jana told the truth.
Sometimes (as in my family’s case), the first victim to speak up is often ostracized. The family would rather turn a blind eye to the truth and vilify the victim as a liar.
That was precisely my friends families reaction. She has been routinely ostracized for making them feel uncomfortable. It’s been horrifying to watch and if I didn’t have a front row seat I wouldn’t have believed it. This families issues have only just begun. I’m heartbroken for those poor girls.
Considering the ages of the girls and their parents response to the abuse, I wonder if some of them haven’t suppressed their memories. Now that this has come to light it might now just be hitting them all over again. I’m starting to think they are almost as bad as Jeff Warren’s cult. I sure hope at least one of them escapes!
I can totally see Jana as one of his victims and she’s just to scared to tell. She seems so beaten down. I also have a theory about Jana. I believe she will never marry. She will stay there and raise the children and then care for her parents in their old age. I personally believe she is gay but will never admit it. She’ll be the one that ‘never found the right guy’.
I read somewhere that it is common in Quiverfull movements to have one of the older girls not marry (the Patriarch specifically doesn’t set them up for courting since he is the one that has to do so) so she may stay home and take care of the children.
The more I hear about this, the more revolting it is. I really hope TLC cancels this show, because really, what excuse could they give not to? (Other than ratings?) The less I see of this whack-job of a family, the better.
I’m outraged (and I am not typically an “outraged” sort of person) that show cancellation is the worst punishment we can reasonably conceive for both Josh Duggar and the twisted parents who so thoroughly failed to value and protect their daughters. They will likely never feel the kind of guilt or see the degree of punishment they deserve.
Good point. What horrible people.
Such a good point. It really is an outrage. If they don’t cancel this show it sets such a hypocritical double standard bc they are religious (honey boo boo anyone?)
Didn’t Seewald also say that diapering babies is women’s work for exactly this reason? I wish I were making this up….
What???
I can’t believe I’m still surprised at this point…these people disgust me.
Yes. That is why the women change diapers, so the men aren’t “tempted” and if a baby girl is getting her diaper changed the boys usually leave the room. Sick and disturbing thinking indeed. Also, Michelle once did an interview where she explained they don’t wear pajamas, they go to bed fully clothed. Makes me wonder if that’s also “to avoid temptation?” What an awful way of thinking. This is victim shaming at its worst. I hope the girls can break free and get some counseling.
@Sunny wow, the more I hear about these people…. Just unreal.
Well they don’t call them Huggies for nothing amirite? /Heavy sarcasm.
The idea that changing a baby’s diaper could tempt anybody. . . I just can’t cope with that level of awfulness right now.
Me, too. No more tempting than my dog’s (truly adorable!) wiggle-butt. What is f@*%ing wrong with people? And why can’t we punish them or banish them forever to a single-gender island where they can’t make any more children to abuse? And why do non-molesters help the molesters/rapists by covering up their evil deeds? Which brings me back to my initial question — what is f@*%ing wrong with people?
Right wing nutjobs are characterizing this as an assault on Republicans by those damn libruls and the lamestream librul media. It’s a little weird to argue that taking a position against incest is an affront to God-fearing Republicans – but if you read the comments you can see right away their defenders are not the sharpest tools in the shed. Most are barely literate.
As appalled as I am that some a choosing to politicize this, I’m still kind of happy to see ignorant people shooting themselves in the foot. Makes me feel more hopeful about the upcoming election.
shows how common this is in the movement that they chose to defend
Yes. Something awful about boys shouldn’t diaper baby girls because it leads to temptation. I feel sick. )-:
I shouldn’t be, but I am honestly astounded how people are siding with child molesters. I can’t believe they are trying to pass it off as “youthful mistakes”.
This is just scary and disgusting! I feel so bad for the victims that can’t get away from all this. But it’s scarier the people who actually defend this behavior and think this family is holier then. I have family members who think these people can’t do no wrong that my 12 year old niece who goes to middle school was opt out of sex education over fear of knowing too much.
Joking about incest after molesting his own sisters? Yes, clearly he was so devasted by his actions and worked hard for forgiveness (major eyeroll).
I too would not be surprised if this sort of abuse is common in their sect. I just wish someone could tell the victims, and all the other girls there, that they don’t have to live that kind of life. I wish just one of them would see that the parents are more interested in protecting him and the cash flow than the victims, and say screw this and go start a new life herself.
If they have been indoctrinated from birth to believe in their own victim shaming, and further kept away from all influences that might give them a different perspective, they’ll never think that what happened to them was their abuser’s fault.
Yes, I’d really love to see the girls liberated and deprogrammed, whatever it takes to try to help ensure they have a decent chance for healing and a normal life. But how that could happen, I have no idea.
I had this mental image of a group of Celebitchians in ski masks, pulling a black-ops mission to bust all those poor girls out of that twisted life. Sadly, I doubt they’d even want to be deprogrammed. This is their reality, and it’s truly scary.
This part reminds me of CoS and how difficult it is for adherents to be exposed to outside information and actually leave.
Sadly, it is probably not going to happen with these girls. The lack of options for them (as they have been raised to believe) would probably discourage them, even if they had a thought of escaping.
Don’t people suspect when a white ‘religious’ family joins TLC?
The scary thing is that that many victims are terrified to say anything. Could Josh have molested other children who feel too ashamed and terrified to speak up? What about his younger brothers? This story is just going to get worse
I am most disturbed by the lack of concern about the female victims. It is all about explaining away the behavior of poor, pitiful Josh and how we should feel for his “pain”. It just makes me ill. I think that Josh is also a victim to his parent’s lack of supervision and not instilling in him and the other family members the value of the girls and raising them all in this sick vacuum not allowing normal socialization. This whole situation is horrible, but I lose sympathy for him (when he was a child and asked to raise his brothers and sisters, which is not his responsibility but his parents) with this silliness and get angrier when the girls are thought of not as viable humans but only as objects and uterues (uterei? sp) to have more and more children.
Poor Jana. Not married at 25 (I’m sure a humiliation in that cult where you job is to get married and procreate), stuck in that house taking care of Michelle Duggar’s children (since I never see her lift a finger) and home since she was young. She is the only daughter at the time who says she wasn’t molested and was the oldest at 12. I wonder if she just was just protecting him and didn’t tell the truth. I find it hard to believe he molested the other four but never her.
Free Jana.
FREE JANA!
And all of the other girls too.
She probably wasn’t young enough to fit Josh’s particular pedophilic interests by the time he started offending. I do wonder if part of the reason she nannies for him is to keep an eye on his kids.
I just really want to see Jana get out of that shit. But if she ever does – I doubt it’ll be any time soon. I think there might be a break later in life, if anything.
And I say this as someone who turned 25 yesterday – and have been having a ‘minor’ existential crisis of “OH GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE WITH MY LIFE NONE OF THIS MATTERRSSS” for the last couple of weeks. And I’m married, a home owner, and have a challenging job that I mostly like. I can’t imagine hitting 25 and being in Jana’s situation. I guess though – she was raised to not have super high hopes of careers and accomplishment outside of birthing.
This bears repeating — My first impression of this family (based on watching an episode or two, years ago when they received a freebie trip to NYC) is that the older kids had far too much responsibility for child rearing. They were assigned younger siblings to care for while their ‘mother’ was all giddy and waiting to birth another baby.
Michelle needs to have her share of the wrath over this horrible situation. My guess is that poor Jana is the type who is a hard worker and just wants to be accepted. A door mat for these idiots.
F_ck these people and TLC. That others can go on and try to justify this crap is insane.
^This is all that really needs to be said at this point.
Nothing else. It is so disgusting there aren’t words.
Doughy uneducated evil twerp.
Doughy was exactly how I described him last week when I was raging at the TV over this.
Bloated is another good term for him…what a creep.
Well that settles it! He’s not only a molester but an unrepentant one!
I have a close friend who was molested by her brother and have witnessed the anguish she’s delt with on an almost daily basis. She has horrific memories and her parents similiarly protected the brother from any prosecution so she’s plagued with abandonment and betrayal.
Josh Duggar’s victims nightmare are being low-lighted by this “family” of morons, as it’s just beginning.
The mainstream is enabling. The fact that TLC didn’t drop this piece of excrement show like a hot potato is all you need to know.
+1!
My stomach is turning at this – any cult which allows children to be molested is beyond sick – I cant believe people are defending this pervert. I’ve never watched the show but its got to be taken off the air – this cant be condoned – it should be condemned and social services should be called.
I hope to God that these kids wake up and leave this cult. My dream is for at least one of them to run away with their same sex partner, who happens to not be white, and then star in their own Broadway production detailing the insanity of these nutjobs ripe with humor and biting satire. And in the end take a bow in the tightest pair of jeans and truly thank God for how they show off the curves. Has anybody else watched The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt?
I read Michael Seewald’s statement and even though I didn’t agree with most of it, I appreciated an acknowledgement for the victims. I was surprised to see how he handled that, how he encouragesd victims to tell someone because it’s not okay to be abused, nor is it their fault.
Sadly, I think this is a big deal coming from a fundie family. I don’t think Gothard or even Jim Boob would endorse that line of thinking.
I had the opposite reaction. In the context of the entire blog post, that portion actually felt so spurious and completely disingenuous—like an afterthought that he hastily added to the essay, just to cover his bases and avoid offending the masses. I actually found it rather insulting, TBH.
Throughout the essay, he continually expresses empathy and concern for the Duggar family, praising their parenting skills, and deflecting through the insinuation that all of us have done terrible things (um, NOPE).
*”It pains me to see that they are now having to relive the nightmare that had been laid to rest well over a decade ago with Josh’s repentance and reformation, but I feel compelled to bring some context and reason to the bloodletting that many are engaging in and to come to the aid of our dear friends and family.”
YES, WHY WON’T WE THINK OF THE POOR PARENTS?!?!? They are victims in this too—victims of the Librul Media and internet meanies!!!
*Josh “sinned because like all of us he is a sinner.”
Well no actually. Not every one of us does awful, unforgivable things. In fact, I’m confident in saying that I bet most people on this thread have never molested a child. Additionally, I would argue that on the Scale O’ Sins, child molestation is up there, probably right behind murder. So yeah, maybe the fancy shampoo that I pocketed as a teenager qualifies as a “sin” in Duggarland, but stealing soap isn’t really on par with the atrocity of physically and emotionally terrorizing a child.
*”The heart of the matter is do you have a good relationship with your children? From my perspective, this is where Jim Bob and Michelle excel.”
Oh yeah. Two fantastic parents. From the oppressive and misogynistic environment they create for their daughters, from the indentured servants they produce every year to help them tend to the flock, to the shaming, the controlling, and the sexual humiliation. Choosing to enable and hide their son’s sexual deviance instead of protecting their daughters and the other victims…
Really, Seewald’s whole essay made me rage.
So true Kitten. So, so true. They are all revolting.
+1
Kitten,
I agree with the points you’ve raised. I think I zeroed in on that paragraph about the victims because up until this point, no other statement released by the Duggars’ allies has acknowledged them. But it seems counterproductive to even address the ones who were hurt when in the same vein, you can also say that the Duggars have great parenting skills and are not at fault. Because great parenting skills means limiting your children in their life paths, having child after child and foisting them off to the older ones to take care of, and enforcing ancient gender roles.
Brava Kitten! Agree 100% and then some!
@Regarded–I totally understand. You picked out one slightly less horrible thing in a sea of terribleness and clung to it like a life saver. We all do this as a way to find a silver lining in the hopelessness, a small ray of positivity in this negative, awful situation. It’s a coping mechanism and I get it 100%.
I hope you got that I was raging against the Duggars via Seewald, not trying to put you on blast or criticize your comments in any way 😉
I want all of them off the air. All.Of.Them.
^This. Right NOW!
i agree – and screw just cancelling the show, i have already contacted my service provider and told them I want TLC dropped from our channel lineup.
Something that I just learned recently and was surprised about because I hadn’t heard anything about it at the time: Andrea and Rusty Yates were Quiverfulls:
http://duggarswatch.blogspot.com/2010/06/adnrea-yates-darker-side-of-quiverfull.html
“Andrea Yates graduated from Milby High School in 1982. She finished as valedictorian , was captain of the swim team, and a member of the National Honor Society. She earned a nursing degree from the University of Houston and began working as a nurse at the Anderson Cancer Center.She met Rusty at her Houston apartment complex and they married in 1993. After Noah was born, Yates quit her nursing job. The next four years the Yates had four more children eventually leading to psyhcosis and post partum depression. She attempted suicide after the fourth was born by taking an overdose of Alzheimer’s medication..Against doctors orders, she became pregnant with a fifth child. It was believe the death of her father and birth of the fifth child furthered her depression… ”
Their Quiverfull beliefs were the reason why Andrea Yates kept having babies even against doctor’s orders. Very disturbing and very sad.
Oh yes. While her crime was horrendous, I feel nothing but pity towards that poor woman. She was out of her mind, and understandably so.
I thought about that too. It fits likes a glove considering Andrea begged her husband for help because she knew she was going out of her mind and all he did was send her to their preacher who, of course, guilted her for not loving being a mother of too many children too close together, with no outlet to give her some free time, and with severe post pardum that had piled up after every new birth. Apparently is was her fault and there was something evil in her that made impeded her joy. It wasn’t evil or sin – it was simply a chemical imbalance that went untreated and even more importantly – unacknowledged. I always blamed her husband for EVERYTHING!
And then Rusty divorced Andrea to marry another woman. So the cycle continues.
Andrea meanwhile is in hell on earth. Every time her drugs start working, she apparently realizes the full horror of what she did and decompensates all over again. I would not be opposed to just giving her enough meds to keep her safe and reasonably happy but not enough that she starts to understand her crimes.
So yeah, f–k Rusty. F–k Quiverfull. And d–n the Duggars straight to hell too for good measure.
Oh wow, I didn’t realize that, although I felt like it was always clear that Rusty was very controlling and that seemed to exacerbate Andrea’s mental issues. I’ve often thought about her horrific situation, feeling like she was a victim as much as her kids.
My heart goes out to Andrea.
“According to trial testimony in 2006, Dr. Saeed advised Rusty, a former NASA engineer, not to leave Andrea unattended. However, he began leaving her alone with the children in the weeks leading up to the drownings for short periods of time hoping to improve her independence.[12] He had announced at a family gathering the weekend before the drownings that he had decided to leave her home alone for an hour each morning and evening, so that she would not become totally dependent on him and his mother for her maternal responsibilities.[26] Her brother, Brian Kennedy, told Larry King on a broadcast of CNN’s Larry King Live that Rusty expressed to him in 2001 while transporting her to Devereux treatment facility that all depressed people needed was a “swift kick in the pants” to get them motivated.[27] Her mother, Jutta Karin Kennedy, expressed shock when she heard of Rusty’s plan while at the gathering with them, saying that she wasn’t stable enough to care for the children. She noted that Yates demonstrated she wasn’t in her right mind when she nearly choked her still-toothless infant daughter Mary by trying to feed her solid food.[28] According to authors Suzy Spencer and Suzanne O’Malley, who investigated her story in great detail, it was during a phone call Dr. Saeed made to Rusty during the breaking news of the killings that he first learned that she was not being supervised full-time.
Yates’ first psychiatrist, Dr. Eileen Starbranch, says she was shocked to disbelief when, during an office visit with them, they expressed a desire to discontinue her medications so that she could become pregnant again. She warned and counseled them against having more children, and noted in the medical record two days later, “Apparently patient and husband plan to have as many babies as nature will allow! This will surely guarantee future psychotic depression.
Nevertheless, she became pregnant with her fifth child, Mary, only 7 weeks after being discharged from Dr. Starbranch’s care on January 12, 2000. Despite Rusty’s statements to the media that he was never told by psychiatrists that she was psychotic nor that she could harm the children, and that he would have never had more children had he known otherwise, she revealed to her prison psychiatrist, Dr. Melissa Ferguson, that prior to their last child, “she had told Rusty that she did not want to have sex because Dr. Starbranch had said she might hurt her children.” Rusty, she said, simply asserted his procreative religious beliefs, complimented her as a good mother, and persuaded her that she could handle more children.”
Sickening. He should have gone to jail.
I know Eileen Starbranch personally. She did NOT mince words with Rusty Yates – I am sure of it. That explains why when Andrea had the last baby and had to be hospitalized again, Rusty took her to Devereaux and Dr. Saeed instead of returning to Dr. Starbranch for treatment.
If this is how the Quiverfull movement believes women should be treated, then they can all go to hell.
Jayna, wow. I agree he should have gone to jail. And to think he’s started over with a new family while Andrea continues to suffer just makes my blood boil.
He did not come across well in interviews right after the tragedy. I can still see him looking all wide-eyed and not being convincing as to what really happened with his wife and how much he knew about her fragile state of mind.
I never could figure out why, if they were so devout, he could divorce her. For better or worse, in sickness or in health, right? He just got to start over.
Heartbreaking
I’m from the same area and my former boss is a friend of the Duggars. He has a quiverful family (even a personalized qvrful license plate). His wife was pregnant like every 18 months. He once told me he would disown his daughters if they went to college or chose to have a real career. This had guy a Phd. He HATED his mother. I never got the whole story but she was in the military and he was raised by his grandmother. Im quite certain his mommy issues are why he joined the quiverful movement. He wasn’t nearly as preoccupied with sex as jim boob and his wife wore quite a bit of makeup
Wow. Thanks for the insight into that world.
I let my daughter watch there silly shows, even though there is no way I support their livestyles or choices, but that was before this shocking story . They need to be cancelled.
Women don’t work, but his girls can certainly help Jim Bob and Michelle rake in the money with all of their twittering and instagramming and all of their weddings. They can’t go out and get educated and earn an honest dollar, but they can help daddy and mommy rake in the money and expensive gifts and fame from this reality show that supports everybody.
How are these people going to live without all the fame and money and expensive gifting from companies and all of the free trips and paid appearances that spin off from the show? They are not modest people like they preach.
The tipster from 2006 or 2007 was incredibly spot on regarding how they were trying to rack up all the appearances and freebies they could before the big secret was exposed. And they ended up having nearly another decade to do so!
Yet there will probably be churches and organizations ready to pay them for personal appearances. It will not completely end.
I’m still shocked by the number of people defending this as*hole, and my sister made a good point and said if he was Muslim people would be demanding his head on a platter, it’s such BS and makes me sick! I hope this family goes away, and maybe all this media attention will reach the girls and they’ll see how twisted their way of life is and they can get the hell out of there.
I remember I watched the show a few times and I remember that exact scene where he said that when his crimes came to light. I was so grossed out. He’s gross. He needs to be taken away from his kids asap.
And those of you who think Michelle Duggar and Jim Bob are lazy parents. AMEN! Lazy, selfish, and downright dumb.
You can also add addicted to attention. I really do think women like her are addicted to having babies. Who is she if she isn’t pregnant or giving birth?
Jim Bob and Michelle had the daughters state to the cameras why they needed to stay covered up lest the boys be taunted by their exposed flesh. (blame the victim) Also, I have seen episodes where JB and Michelle have gotten graphic about sex, imho, talking about him pounding the cervix to get it soft and ready to open up for childbirth. The parents tend to talk about sex a lot in front of their children…obsessed with the kids not having it and themselves with having it.
One of the boys who is just 18 is courting (getting ready for marriage…in Duggar land)…is it because he’s had problems and the Duggars feel it is easier to get him married off? Tell a kid not to do something over and over again while you carry on how wonderful it is…..hmm. (Not all those kids looked happy either when mom and dad announced yet another child on the way.) The 18 or 19th kid…the producer actually said to JB…”you sure do know how to keep a show going, Jim Bob.” I think that was a lot of the truth behind the Duggars, not much different than Kate Gosselin wanting to be famou$ before she was pregnant with her brood.
I’ve watched the show a time or two, & I was struck by how much they talked about sex, I mean, A LOT. There’s so much more to life, and children so young don’t need to be exposed like that. Instead of navel gazers, they’re crotch gazers.
Jesus.
Come to think of it, I don’t think these people have ever actually met Jesus. Wow. The more I find out about this, the more it smacks of those FLDS compounds that totally commoditize women and girls and the abuse that is rife there.
No difference.
Edited to add: and, excuse me, but I am from Arkansas. The jokes about incest regarding my state are NOT funny, and normal Arkansans don’t laugh about it. We wear shoes, we don’t marry our cousins, and we do NOT think inter-sibling molestation is funny. Sick freak.
Why the mainstream evangelical community is defending these perverted and abusive people is beyond my comprehension.
I have honestly had a quiverfull of this vile family.
TLC-Discovery-Oprah-NBC talking heads/execs. You know they all knew, they let it go. Just like they let others go and fawn over them on ‘The Today Show’. While Jon Gosselin is something else for sure and I’m not defending him….he tried to warn people in the end what TLC is like. Toddlers and Tiaras …bet pedophiles tuned in regularly. Years and years ago, TLC used to be a great channel when it was called ‘The Learning Channel’. I think they should rename themselves ‘The Lecherous Channel’.
People mag has just posted a story that pretty much confirms that TLC had to have known this was coming when they planned that Josh-Duggar-episode marathon (what a GREAT idea that was!). Apparently Anna Duggar posted some cryptic message about forgiveness on her ig several days before the story first broke. I’d be surprised if they didn’t give TLC a heads-up, which means the network was like, “let’s give them a megadose of the molester and gauge the reaction to it.” Creeps.
I believe Oprah’s show did contact the Arkansas family services. That is what sparked the police investigation but it was passed the statute of limitations
http://www.eonline.com/news/659560/josh-duggar-police-report-oprah-winfrey-s-harpo-studios-was-tipped-off-about-molestation-accusations-family-interview-never-happened
Apparently Oprah’s staff reported their suspicions AND dropped the Duggars from a planned segment/show.
@ Anon- actually Oprah is the one who played a big role in bringing this entire situation to light. Her show’s team called the authorities when they learned about the horrors that Josh inflicted on his sisters, and she refused to have them appear on her show afterward.
You know what I’ve been wondering though? The Oprah thing was a number of years ago. In Touch broke the story now. Why? What prompted them to look for it? I wonder if the same tipster that wrote to Harpo, also wrote to various gossip outlets until someone found it? Something must have made them submit the FOIA request.
Radar Online says that the judge who ordered the police to destroy the original documents of the investigation on Duggar’s molestation case has been linked to former Governor Mike Huckabee, who has publicly supported Duggar.
The Springdale police spokesman said that normally “records of this nature are usually kept indefinitely,” but now that they’ve been ordered destroyed, it’s like they never existed. He said that this expunges Duggar’s record.
This judge had “twice been elected by the governor to serve on numerous committees” by then-governor Huckabee, according to her website.
I’m not saying the judge definitely did this because of the Huckabee-Duggar connection, but when I first heard that the police records would be destroyed, I thought that was odd. You’d think that with numerous allegations, the justice system would want to have a collection of documentation.
“Payless ShoeSource and Choice Hotels both say they’re cutting ties with all future episodes of the TLC program.
Several customers voiced complaints to Payless and the company responded by saying, “Our ads ran during this show as part of a larger buy w/ TLC. We are taking steps to have them removed from future episodes.”
Choice Hotels said, “We have decided to remove our advertising from the show.”
Walgreens, another major advertiser with TLC, posted a response saying that they were continuing to monitor the situation.
TMZ broke the story … shortly after news broke about Josh, General Mills pulled its ads.”
What other companies advertise with TLC? I’d be happy to write to ask advertisers to cut off all ties with TLC, not just with the show.
Good to know. Thanks Jayna.
I just read on TMZ that Walgreens has now pulled ads also.
I <3 Dan Savage!
Incest has nothing to do with politics! I’m pissed that they are framing it that way.
The records may be destroyed but didn’t the press get ahold of most of the files before then?
People magazine better not glorify one of the pregnant sisters. This family needs to go away.
That judge needs to be recalled.
Montel Williams also had it out against Dirtbag. His tweets were all over chinless big forehead. Good for him!
I’d like to give a big shout-out to Gawker and Jezebel for putting out a huge amount of stories , and keep shining the light on the Duggars. That’s what is needed, a continued light on this … every bit helps.
I wonder what this nutbag family would think about abortion should a pregnancy occur as a result incest?
No. Michelle would just have the daugher have the baby. Then Michelle would call the baby her own. And then Michelle would do what she normally does, have her daughters raise the child, which sadly would probably mean the real mother (the daughter) was raising her but as her sister.
How confusing.
They would not allow an abortion. They’d try to brainwash the mother into seeing the baby as a gift from God.
Celebitchy mentioned Gawker and the ATI training material for homeschooling. I found this on Cosmopoliton.com commenting on a passage in the ATI literature regarding a boy (not Josh) who molested his sisters.
The article states: There’s a chapter focused on the “lessons” that can be learned from one family’s story of a son who confessed to molesting his sisters — which, having been published years prior to the incidents involving Josh, is in no way related to the current Duggar sex crime. Writes the son in an essay that apparently constituted part of his repentance — and please be conscious that this passage could be a trigger:
“[Modesty] was not at the level it should have been in my family … My younger sisters used to wear dresses often, but as they were young and not aware of modesty, they did not behave in them as they should…
Little people do not realize their nakedness right away. It takes several years before they grasp it. It needs to be taught to them. My mom is a nurse, and the human body is not a big deal to her. I guess she didn’t want it to be for her kids either. She and I have talked about it. She explained to me that she had no idea how visual male sexuality is, compared to women who are mainly by touch. I am so grateful my parents have changed so much in this area of my home. This was not a major reason for my offending, but it allowed my little sister to be open to what I made her do.”
OMG my heart hurts for that little girl. I have a small daughter and can’t imagine this happening to her. It makes me physically upset. Children ARENT aware of their nakedness and that is because they are so innocent and sweet. The idea that someone would destroy that trust and innocence makes me SO MAD!
I now know the meaning of the phrase, ‘angry beyond belief’.
The fact that he was so DISGUSTINGLY confident that this would never get out is maddening. He smirks and makes a joke about incest when he knows he molested his sisters for years. This is honestly the most brainwashed and nasty family ever.
I am sorry to say I was not surprised to hear this. They stifle all normal behavior about sex and normal hormonal feelings. So, no wonder some become perverted about it. We need to really be angry with the producers and networks that promote these ridiculous people as the perfect family atmosphere and environment. Nothing could be further from the truth. I guarantee this information was known and stifled by everyone involved. They thought they had got rid of all evidence but as usual the media loves to build someone up so they can destroy them. This family should have never been on TV unless they wanted to be real about the issues really involved with the way they raise children.
Well said.
One of the girls in this family needs to call Katie Holmes and get some pointers on how to escape from a creepy cult.
This is so disgusting! I refuse to watch the “joke.”
When I was 14, I was interested in sex but decided to wait until I was 16 to do anything about it. 14 years old is definitely old enough to know that you’re not “playing doctor” if you touch someone sexually.
The fact that his parents covered it up makes me think that they were full aware of what was going on, condoned it, and may have even allegedly molested him as well.
Thank you, commenters, for educating me more on the horrible cult of Quiverfull. Just like Scientology, they need to be exposed and brought to justice, in my opinion.