I had the chance to read the full Vanity Fair cover story in which we get to meet Caitlyn Jenner and hear her story. Author Buzz Bissinger did a masterful job. He didn’t gloss over the difficult or uncomfortable parts of Jenner’s past (namely her poor relationship with her four oldest children) and wrote a profile that was balanced, realistic and yet understanding toward Caitlyn and the transgender community. It’s a great read and I highly recommend it. I’m excerpting a couple of main points below, but there’s so much more in the article to discuss. Please note that the article alternates between using male and female pronouns depending on whether they’re referring to Bruce’s past or Caitlyn’s future. I do the same in the conclusion below.
Cailtyn admits that Bruce told lies
Bruce Jenner, she said, was “always telling lies.” Caitlyn Jenner, she said, “doesn’t have any lies.” Bruce Jenner caused hurt to four children who loved and idolized him before he gave his love and total attention to another family. Caitlyn Jenner has the possibility to make it right and close the fissure as much as she can. “I have high hopes that Caitlyn is a better person than Bruce,” said his oldest son, Burt, now 36. “I’m very much looking forward to that.”Caitlyn’s four children from her first two marriages won’t do the docuseries
The last thing the Jenner kids want to do is reverse the rebuilding of the relationship. But despite numerous entreaties from their father as well as the head of E! programming, the Jenner children refused to participate, forgoing financial gain and exposure in the process. At first their decision did not seem to register with Caitlyn. She kept hoping they could be persuaded… when she realized the decision was final, she became increasingly frustrated and on one occasion hurled profanities. She told me she felt “terribly disappointed and terribly hurt”Kris claims that Bruce didn’t tell her how serious the issue was
The issue of how much Bruce Jenner told Kris of his gender-identity issues is a matter of dispute: neither side wants to appear rancorous, but the two sides agree on virtually nothing. Breast growth as the result of hormones is irreversible. Jenner insists that he was a “good solid B cup” when he met Kris. She said it was comparable to a “little bit of a man boob situation” but that there was “no B cup going on…“When I met Bruce, he told me that he had done hormones back in the early 90s. So, what he was telling me happened a decade earlier, and he never really explained it… there wasn’t a gender issue… Somebody mentioned that [he] at one point in his life liked too dress up.”
Jenner is emphatic that he told Kris he had taken hormones in the late 1980s up untl the year they met, and was equally emphatic in saying there were other side effects besides breast growth. He finds it implausible for her to suggest she was not aware of his gender struggle. But he does concede that “probably a mistake I made was maybe not having her understand – not the severity of it but that this is a condition you cannot get away from. From this standpoint maybe I blew it a way a little bit, sort of ‘This is what I do.'” He said he did cross-dress in front of her. But ultimately, he said, she set down rules: he could cross-dress when he was traveling on his own but not at home.
Kris said he never cross-dressed in front of her, the only evidence “a few times I would see a suitcase or things lying around the house.” She also said she never set down any rules.
[From Vanity Fair, print edition, July, 2016]
The article also confirms that Kris had a role in separating Bruce from his oldest children during the early years of their marriage, noting that “The children maintain that Kris essentially turned on them.” After Bruce’s second wife, Linda Thompson (mother to Brandon and Brody), took him to court for child support, Kris wasn’t as willing to “integrate the families,” Caitlyn admits. Whatever Kris did, Bruce went along with it, so it’s not all on Kris. Bruce could have maintained relationships with the oldest children if that was a priority.
Caitlyn also claims that Kris treated her badly during their marriage, especially after KUWTK started airing. “A lot of times she wasn’t very nice… I got mistreated. She controlled the money.” Kris claims that Bruce was angry, withdrawn and passive aggressive. “He was miserable… All I was doing was working very hard for my family so that we could all have a wonderful future, and he was pissed off.” Kris also says that Bruce never told her anything about being transgender until their divorce was finalized. “It was like the most passive-aggressive thing I think I’ve ever experienced.”
As for what Kris knew and when, I buy that she wasn’t fully aware of Bruce’s gender identity issues. As we saw on Keeping Up With the Kardashians, Bruce was cagey about telling his family what was going on and downplayed most everything. I do think Caitlyn is telling the truth about the fact that Kris set rules for when and where Bruce could cross dress. As Caitlyn states in the article, Bruce was “always telling lies” but Caitlyn “doesn’t have any lies.” It must be a relief for her to finally be honest with herself and the world.
Here are some more photos from the editorial by Annie Leibowitz, which is striking. Caitlyn has been compared to Jessica Lange, who has called the comparisons “wonderful.” I can see it.
Lady in red! Here's another pic of #CaitlynJenner from @VanityFair #CallMeCaitlyn pic.twitter.com/iGQwhRz52c
— David Caplan (@DavidCaplanNYC) June 1, 2015
Never be afraid to show the world who you truly are. #CaitlynJenner pic.twitter.com/EtYjqHYP4K
— A (@shaymitchnyc) June 2, 2015
Can we just… đđđđđ #CaitlynJenner pic.twitter.com/WHGdVJa6iC
— Ginger W Lavender (@GingerWLavender) June 1, 2015
Kris can’t control the situation and she’s spitting mad about it.
I honestly do not like Bruce. He lied to Kris and now he wants to qualify his lie. Are we for Real????
I do think Kris created parameters for his cross dressing. I believe she is lying because it all feels wrong now. But I don’t think she understood he wanted to be a woman. I don’t think she would have married and had children with him if she understood he wanted to be a woman.
I do not like Bruce. I may learn to like Caitlyn. I guess she couldn’t make it easy and spell her name with a K.
I feel the same way as you. I don’t like any of them, frankly, and Caitlyn is wearing thin on me already.
I have to say, I agree-I’m not sure how I feel about people acting like Caitlyn Jenner is now a saint above criticism. I don’t like Kris but I don’t care if she “wasn’t willing to integrate the families”-that’s on you too, Caitlyn, despite what issues you were dealing with at the time. Hearing her criticize the children she essentially abandoned for refusing to go through something very personal and emotionally difficult on camera like the Kardashians? Wow.
What you said @Jen.
Kris was always made to be the villain in the whole Kardashian media ridiculousness, but Bruce was right there every step of the way. He could have maintained a relationship with his children. He didn’t need to wh*re out every aspect of his life. Even here, where she wanted her older kids to be on the show and they refused and she got really angry. Bruce/Caitlyn is just as much a part of the machine as Kris is.
And let’s not forget that Bruce killed someone in a car accident only a few months ago.
@Denisemich ….I so agree….My tolerance for Bruce/Caitlyn is almost gone. This has nothing to do with him being a Transgender. I would not care if he were a martian. A person has to be true to his/herself. What bothers me is his attempting to throw Kris under the bus. In the Sawyer interview he said that Kris was a good woman and that he had no problem with her. Now he’s throwing shade. Caitlyn is being disengenuous, or maybe she is as shady as Kris. Also, it bothers me that not too long ago Bruce killed someone albeit accidentally , but he seems to not feel any sort of responsibility at all. Bruce/Caitlyn the self absorbtion seems to be the same….so the question remains is the change only skin deep? Time will telll I guess.
100% support from me too.
Logically as loose morally as the family is it makes sense that Kris had to set parameters an the cross dressing in the 1980s through now. She had young kids than teens. It’s not easy for kids in young ages to process. He still got snagged a few times by the youngest girls on a security camera and by Kim randomly in the house. Kris gets this one, she had to have rules. Bruce/Caitlyn sounds so conflicted that his pain blinds him to other family members feelings about his transition
EXACTLY. The bottom-line is that Kris was a grifter-divorcee with 4 kids who was looking to lock onto anything that gave her even a semblance of the life she had with Robert Kardashian. Kris hated the fact that she would lose status in the small circle of LA friends. As a result, she found a man that she could overpower—-a man who was already questioning his relevance as a male himself in this life. She knew what she was getting and that was the trade-off she ACCEPTED when she bargained for her COMFORT OF THE LA LIFESTYLE. Not sorry for Kris. Were the B-cups and dress-up not her first clue?
Christo, this is the only scenario that makes sense. It’s straightforward and takes into consideration all we know about these people.
What Bruce got out of marrying Kris was the revival of his brand.
I agree. Bruce was the draw/big name in their marriage at least initially. She didn’t care about his “flaws”, just wanted the life style. He was easily controlled by her and likely had low self-esteem.
This makes complete sense. There was a clip in the ABC special of Bruce at the Olympics looking absolutely lost & sad, I can’t imagine how fractured his self-image must have been.
When Kris says “I was working very hard for our family…for a wonderful future”…that’s classic Narcissist get out the violin wah-wah victim speak, AKA ‘look at everything I’ve done all on my own, no one to help and no one appreciated it’. I’ve known a few, it’s all the same.
And narcissists generally partner up with someone who has self-image & boundary issues, because that person on a subconscious level is eager to please and starved for charm & attention. Bruce was an easy mark for her.
I think she’s (Kris) probably mad that Caitlyn is painting her (Kris) as the bad person in their marriage. There are two sides to every story and after hearing both sides, I believe Kris knew about the cross dressing and because they had young, impressionable children in the house who may be confused and upset at seeing “Dad” dress in women’s clothing, asked him not do that at home.
I also believe that “Bruce” downplayed the cross dressing and portrayed it as just something he did. I do not believe Kris knew he wanted to fully transition into a woman.
I also believe that Kris liked having Bruce all to herself and “their” family and did not encourage him to have a good relationship with the children from his other two marriages. However, that is on Bruce/Caitlyn, not Kris. He married those women, he had children with those women and it was HIS/HER responsibility to maintain a good parental relationship with them.
To me, Bruce/Caitlyn still comes across as a very narcissistic personality who’s main interest is themself.
Sherry, I totally agree with everything you wrote. Regarding his children I put all the blame on him. If a man wants to see his children believe me he will no mattter what the new girlfriend or wife says.
I completely agree with both of you!
It really bothers me that in the article, Bruce was the liar but now supposedly Caitlyn will not be? She’s still the same person she was, just in a different package!
People are trying to make this out as she’s an entirely different person, when she’s not. Only her outside appearance is different, and most likely she’s feeling “freer” to be herself, but her basic morals and attitudes are all the same.
A saint she is definitely not!
^^ This Sherry
“He married those women, he had children with those women and it was HIS/HER responsibility to maintain a good parental relationship with them.”
I agree 100%. It is actually very disappointing to hear Caitlyn try to pass the blame on to Kris.
100 % agree with Sherry.
+1. When you bring children into this world, your first obligation is to them no matter what the subsequent spouse may think.
Totally on board with you, Jen.
She looks like Janice Dickinson or Tatyana Patiz. Very 90s supermodel chic. đ
Someone at dlisted mentioned Lana del Rey and now that’s all I can see
It cannot be unseen.
I think she looks like British actress Sarah Parish.
Can you all stop? Do you not see how offensive that is?!
What do you find offensive about it? It may seem obvious to you, but I am pretty careful about using sensitive language and I’m not sure what bothers you about these comments.
Caitlyn is beautiful. She spells Caitlyn the way my daughter spells it, so I’m fond of the name. What gets me is that he allowed his ex to cause a wedge between him and his kids. That’s unforgivable. We all know Kris is a POS and it’s disgusting that she’s the type of person who would cause his children to be without a father when her kids reap the benefits of a father figure. That’s the type of person she is and he’s weak to allow that.
She’s the devil, I’m convinced.
You can’t force someone not to be a dad. Bruce could have seen his children. He was a grown adult. It’s not her fault. She may be the devil incarnate, but Bruce was the one who abandoned his children.
Exactly, and his ex-wives said that he was very distant from the children even before he ever met Kris. Bruce may be a great Olympian and media personality now, but he’s always been a crappy father.
And once all of this popularity dies down, she’ll be a crappy mother.
I hope in time Caitlyn will take full responsibility for being an absentee parent. Bruce chose to walk away and leave four children to live with pain. Bruce chose to prioritize his relationship with Kris over his four children. Bruce and now Caitlyn continue to shift the blame for that failure on to others. His older children are giving their father a “redo”. I sincerely hope Caitlyn makes every effort to right those wrongs which includes acknowledging that Bruce allowed that to happen. Right now Caitlyn is receiving oodles of support and love from her family and the public. Those sentiments won’t last long if Caitlyn continues the blame game.
Agreed. Now that she’s become Caitlyn, she’s placing blame for being an absentee father on Bruce. Bruce is Caitlyn. She did not become a different person with a different set of morals, she simply became the person on the outside that she is on the inside. She is still the same person who is currently allowing her underage daughter to engage in a sexual relationship with an adult and she is still the same person who continually played house with her step children while her biological children cried over the loss of a parent. It is wonderful that she is happy and beautiful and finally herself but it’s shitty that she wants to detach herself so completely from her past choices. Own it. It’s all you. The choices, the medals, the children, the dresses…it’s still you.
Well said, writeitoff.
You said what I’m thinking, writeitoff!
Agreed, writeitoff.
Very well written, writeitoff!
Kris is a pos and it is inexcusable that she would make his other children feel unwelcomed or a burden. If you get involved with a person with kids you know you are getting involved with the kids.
That being said the fact Caitlyn/Bruce went along with it and did not put his children before himself and his wants is disgusting! Also completely on him and no one else.
“the Jenner children refused to participate, forgoing financial gain and exposure in the process”
THESE are the only people taking the damn high road here.
AMEN! I’m glad they refused. It sounds like they were going to be groomed for a Kardashian vs Jenner rivalry for TV…ithis is a sensitive situation, and people are thinking reality TV and producer pitching? More episodes for e television…. Ugh, it kind of feels sick…this whole farming of people’s lives for entertainment. I’m glad they said no, I have so much respect for their decision.
Yeah, I just came to that conclusion myself. Caitlyn was trying to establish the same sort of empire that Kris had, and it has begun to tarnish good will that was generated from the Sawyer interview.
The four oldest children are completely right to refuse (even if their parent has a hissy fit). And I really do think this is going to end up being a competition of storylines for years to come.
Caitlyn sounds as self absorbed and immature as Bruce did. Way to make it all about you at the cost of the children you willingly brought into this world.
It is quickly becoming apparent that Caitlyn did not have a personality transplant. Same ole selfishness at the core.
It’s ridiculous for her to assume that she is no longer responsible for any of the mistakes she made or lies she told as Bruce. That makes this whole thing seem really fishy to me. Selfishness to the extreme. Yuck. I’m not buying the whole “hero” aspect of this either.
That’s right, Francesca. I don’t see much change.
Seriously. Their dad abandoned them, was a total sh*tty parent, and when they don’t respond on cue to the request to be apart of this circus, they’re cursed at. New name or not, still a crappy person.
I have to agree. I’m glad for the transgender community if this helps them but Caitlyn can’t blame Kris for everything that happened before this transition. She was a terrible parent and I can’t stand Kris, but it wasn’t fair to not make it very clear exactly who she was. Not a nice person.
Yes. Imagine foregoing financial gain and exposure. That is how it is done folks. The mothers who raised them should be proud.
Wasn’t Brody already on a reality show or two at the time? He was already “famous” even more famous than the Kardashians at the time.
Yes he was in Princes of Malibu with his mother and then-stepfather David Foster and later The Hills. He seems like he’s matured though and there’s a difference between silly reality TV and something this big and real. Good for the elder Jenner kids. There’s a lot of healing and adjustment to come–it doesn’t need to happen on camera.
Thank you! His four older children are to be commended for their act of forgiveness after their father all but abandoned them. Caitlyn/Bruce should respect their choice and start working on rebuilding these relationships. My goodwill towards her is rapidly evaporating.
While Kris Is clearly Satan’s homegirl Those where Caitlin’s Kid that she turned her back on willingly and that is just trash so to expect those kids to somehow put themselves out there during this delicate time just cuz… Nah! if anything you gotta hand it to them for having a big enough heart to accept this and also the INTEGRITY that eludes that family writ large to not put their business on camera
I know I feel the same. They didn’t sell out their integrity for cash. I’m not feeling an abundance of affection for Caitlyn anymore than I did for Bruce as a human being. I feel for the difficulty in coming to terms, but Caitlyn seems to be assigning a lot of blame elsewhere.
Agreed. Yes Caitlin’s going through a significant change but it doesn’t change who she is completely. The personality remains intact, the past is the same too. It doesn’t just erase.
Gender identity issues or not, there’s no excuse for abandoning children. I like Burt’s statement that he hopes Caitlyn is a better person than Bruce was.
While I don’t doubt that Lucifer’s home girl lied about a lot, I also firmly believe Bruce lied about a lot and likely Caitlyn will continue to lie and deflect. I’m not buying that the lies were all because of her gender struggle.
“The article also confirms that Kris had a role in separating Bruce from his oldest children during the early years of their marriage, noting that âThe children maintain that Kris essentially turned on them.â After Bruceâs second wife, Linda Thompson (mother to Brandon and Brody), took him to court for child support, Kris wasnât as willing to âintegrate the families,â Caitlyn admits. Whatever Kris did, Bruce went along with it, so itâs not all on Kris. ”
Kris may be a terrible person, and I think she is, but as Bruce, Caitlyn went along with it. To dredge up this point now is to attempt to assign blame only in one direction, and that, in itself, is STILL not the full truth.
Why bring it up? Accept your OWN mistakes in how YOU handled it, then FRESH starts.
I agree. My dad did the same thing with me when he remarried. My stepmom pretty much wanted him to forget his previous family existed. You know who I blame? My dad. HE is the one who had the responsibility to me. I feel the same way about Bruce. It’s stupid to put the blame on Kris.
Yes to both of you.
Totally agree.
Right! And I know that Caitlyn is attempting to make it right. While that counts for something, her children are also in their 30s. There is only so much repair and understanding that can go on for choosing your new wife and step children (who had a father prior to his passing) over your own.
Attempting to ‘make it right’ on camera? Kind of like the freakin’ Kardashian template?
ETA: Here’s my theory and opinion on them.
Kris is horrible, but she had tenacity and incredible promotional skills. She was aware of Bruce’s confusion to some degree, but I do not believe she knew the full extent of it in that it would involve a FULL transformation of gender. She would have capitalized ON THAT right away or very soon after.
Caitlyn as Bruce was MORE THAN willing to subjugate the Caitlyn part of his/her being, provided that the promotion by Kris was squarely directed at Bruce. Once the attention FULLY shifted to the girls/women in the family, THAT is when the decision to fully transform was made, since the advantage of adoration, attention and financial gain did not outweigh the longing for being ‘real’ with one’s self. I think no matter the gender, more than anything, Caitlyn wants the attention and recognition that propelled Bruce as an Olympian.
@ Kiddo, your last sentence….very interesting!
Caitlyn sounds a lot like Kris to be honest. I don’t see a lot of difference. Kris had the business skills and intelligence that ‘Bruce’ did not have so ‘he’ allowed himself to be used for money. They were always greedy and ‘Bruce’, or any person, wouldn’t stay married for so long with a partner that is greedy to the core. Without Kris, ‘Bruce’ would not have the life he has now, so easy to stab his ex in the back after she finally got what she wanted (and clearly learned from Kris!). They’re both horrible and selfish lol…
Concerning his children, he didn’t start abandoning his children when he met Kris, he seemed like a shit dad. Phonecalls or birthday cards can be done undercover if Kris was controlling him that closely. No parent would be able to be kept away from their children if the need to know them is strong enough.
His’ excuse was that his gender issues consumed him too much to parent properly but it’s a fact that ‘he’ ABANDONED his children while being a substitute dad for the Kardashians and having 2 more children. Now she’s blaming Kris for something that was still HER responsibility.
‘Bruce’ did everything to shift the blame and so is Caitlyn. She’s a narcissistic prick. Now that Caitlyn needs her children to make money (like Kris is doing) and they’re not willing, she’s showing her true colours. I’m amazed at those children’s patience because she’s such a Kris 2.0. Her teenager daughter is dating a predator but as long as she’s free, she ain’t bothered. As long as she gets her show, she’s good.
In the end, what’s changed besides her gender? It sure as her isn’t her personality or ambition (money money money). I know Kris is horrible but what makes Caitlyn better than her? I really don’t see it. Would ‘Bruce’ have had the financial means to become Caitlyn and promote this without Kris? No. Caitlyn doth protest too much for somebody who is supposedly ‘free’.
Bruce did this, not Kris. I believe he misled Kris, despite what he claims. He cannot expect this to just go away now that he has become Caitlyn, I am all for Caitlyn living her life the way she wants to but she also has to understand there is quite a few amends she has to make. Just because Bruce told the lies doesn’t mean that Caitlyn can expect the lies to be swept under the rug because Caitlyn doesn’t tell lies. I would not be surprised if a personality disorder exists with the gender identity confusion. No, I am not talking about split personality but rather narcissism or borderline personality issues.
I am starting to have more empathy for Kris. She mentions a passive aggressiveness, and I think that is probably very true of Bruce/Caitlyn.
I think part of the timing is an attempt to upstage her. And trying to pressure his older kids into being a part of what I suspect will be a less than sensitive show. It comes across like, I wasn’t there for a long time when you needed me, but now you should do this for me.
Just because Caitlin is free does not take away that Bruce was a terrible father. Sorry, no matter how Caitlin chooses to live, she still must take responsibility for Bruce’s actions. Like a true narcissist, she is mad that her eldest children did not participate in the docuseries. She fails to understand that she is to blame, regardless of her gender identity or other issues.
I feel bad for Kylie and Kendall. I do. To be going through all of this (divorce, “loss of father”) and so publicly. Caitlin will be too focused on herself to realize that her youngest kids still need her as a parent.
While I’m happy that Caitlyn is free to tell the truth. I do feel like her parenting issues (while identifying as Bruce) are being some what glossed over in light of the Transgender issues. She just admitted that she let Kris cut her children out of her life. And then wants to come down on Kris for mistreatment. I don’t want to let Kris off of the hook, but I also feel she is shouldering a lot of blame (particularly from the public) that’s not hers to bear.
I agree with this. Bruce had to make the decision not to see his kids – not to even call them or send a card on their birthdays. That wasn’t on Kris. I’m also pleasantly surprised at his kids (especially surprised at Brody) not taking the cash for the reality show. I think the fact that Caitlyn raged at them…that makes me concerned that Caitlyn may not be a better person than Bruce. Maybe happier and freer and more honest, but not automatically better.
Why would Caitlyn be a better person? She’s the same person in a different package. Bruce was a jerk and Caitlyn is a jerk. It’s the same person.
Exactly. Jenner is making a big deal about being this new and better person. It doesn’t matter how much you change your exterior or what new thing you call yourself, your soul doesn’t change. Caitlyn is still Bruce.
I think Bruce must have been miserable for decades…I, for once, do not blame Kris for holding grudge, probably she didn’t understand the situation because Bruce was telling lies all the time.
Caitlyn is finally free, and I seriously envy her hair game in the shoot, is glorious. Old school glamour, rock it girl!
Linda Thompson was very open about why her marriage ended that’s why I don’t buy it that Kris “wasn’t fully aware of Bruceâs gender identity issues”. Come on. Kris is a shallow snob she just wanted another husband with the right last name.
You know I have no empathy at this point for amy of them, Caitlyn included. They all deserve each other. They are all shallow, narcissistic, overly aggrandize themselves, physically obsessed, morally bankrupt people. Being transgender doesn’t make you a saint. He ruined families, acted the victim and now she is getting some public accolades and has turned all mean girl against people who, while I don’t like them, are struggling, STRUGGLING, to understand what just happened to their husband, father, ex-husband.
She actually yelled at her kids because they don’t want to pimp their life story out on trashy reality TV. Keep talking Caitlyn, all that transgender good will is likely to fall by the wayside as your true values come out.
I have to agree, Caitlyn seems to be kind of a mean girl, right? All she’s doing is blaming people, she seems to want to blame PMK for EVERYTHING including having to live as a man for 65 years. I’m sorry but at what point does one have to take responsibility for your life? Society is hateful for sure but no one force him to marry not one, not two but THREE women and have a multitude of kids. He could have stop marrying and having kids after his first marriage failed and live the life he wanted privately until he was ready to be her publicly but instead he chose to marry more women and have more kids and then spent his time resenting and treating them like crap. I just can’t support that.
I believe people can change for the better at any time before they pass. My father was not a nice man….to say the least. Now he has learned what is important in life and has changed. People should get second chances. I am going to let Caitlyn try. Maybe she can change things for her children. The past is important but there are reasons it’s fades in our memories. I live in the present.
Ps . Also, I saw the picture of her in red yesterday and had no idea who it was! Happiness is indeed beautiful.
Now that Caitlyn is allowed to be Caitlyn maybe she’ll be a better person. I doubt it. The gender is different but the same narcissistic person is still there.
@Ava…Caitlyn doesn’t seem like she wants to move on and change. She seems to want to live in the past assigning blame and shifting responsibility. She is still all about herself herself now, just like when she was Bruce. She’s talking about how “hurt and disappointed” she is about the children not wanting to be part of her circus, well how does she think they felt when she abandoned them all those years ago?
You nailed it, Susan. They’re all horrible.
Absolutely!! Also, how is it that no one talks about the fact that, right before transitioning, Bruce killed someone in a car accident???
Thank You.. Marny! Yes! Bruce was deemed responsible for the death of the woman in the car he hit while driving “distracted”. So far as I have read, no Court date has been assigned by (now) Caitlyn Jenner. No mention of this since it happened that I know of. I’m sure his Attorneys are doing all they can to keep this out of the press any further. The poor family!
If Bruce was an a-hole, I don’t see why Caitlyn also wouldn’t be one. Maybe she’ll be happier now and that will translate to being a better person. I just don’t know why she’s being treated like a saint.
Yeah, the whole “fresh start” thing is kind of BS. Assholes are assholes whether they are male or female.
One of his boys, Brody, said Bruce was a great guy, just not a great father to him. He didn’t paint him as black or white and was able to see Bruce wholly, the weak and strong parts, the good and the bad. And Brody is the one who had the most problems with Bruce as far as holding onto animosity and anger regarding how he was treated. He even admitted he was a loving father to the two Jenner girls.
Brandon, on the other hand, didn’t have the strong anger Brody did, more just hurt, and Brandon is the closest to Bruce, now Caitlyn, out of all of his four older children, and maybe even out of all of his children. Brandon and his wife have spent a lot of time with Bruce, now Caitlyn, since he moved into his own home while still married to Kris up to now as Caitlyn.
I am using Bruce and he at times, because a lot of what I’m referring to was while he was still Bruce in their children’s eyes.
I could see how being unhappy and feeling trapped in your life would make you miserable, and could certainly have an effect on how you care for and raise your kids. But nothing is an excuse for abandonment and a total lack of parenting, as seen with his younger kids.
Selfish, selfish, selfish. More lies, lies, lies. When ladies bits and pieces are not enough, then what? You’re still the same person inside.
Is it really necessary to engage in the magazine in a “she said/she said” about the ex-spouse, mother of your children? I think all of America gets it, and has for years, that Kris Jenner is not the nicest person and probably wasn’t a sympathetic spouse, but if all of this publicity is meant to help transgendered people… carrying on with bickering about the issues of the now-expired marriage is NOT helpful to others who are transitioning, or who are trying to negotiate being married to or getting divorced from a person who is transitioning. Caitlynn, you have a new life, a new world before you, new chances for love, just MOVE ON from Kris and leave it be.
Obviously not planning on doing that as she has named herself alliteratively and has competing reality show plans. Kris 2.0
Ooh good point Susan.
I don’t understand why Jenner wanted to have pictures splashed all over the media looking so highly sexualized. What’s wrong with a more serious, covered up look? The pictures just scream “freakshow” to me. Am I the only one who feels this way?
Nope. *raises hand*
Not freak show. But I definitely don’t get the need to be oversexualized. At least have a range of looks. (But then, it’s likely she learned from the Kardashians)
Ok to be fair, VF has a history of doing very sexy, sultry covers. If you do a Google search you will see that this applies to both men and women.
And now that I got that out of the way, I dislike the cover for a lot of reasons. First of all, I don’t get why people think it’s such a great photo-her hands look like they’re cut off and it’s just a very awkward pose.
Aside from that, Caitlyn is still presumably a decent athlete. Granted she’s older than in Bruce’s Olympian days but she still golfs and pursues other athletic endeavors. Why couldn’t they have done a cover of Caitlyn doing something athletic? I understand that it probably wasn’t what she wanted but it would have shown that Caitlyn is first and foremost a PERSON, a woman second. I think it would have really illustrated that transgendered people are still the same person inside, even if their outsides don’t reflect how they feel. In other words, Caitlyn doesn’t stop playing golf just because she isn’t Bruce anymore. If done right, I think it could have been a really powerful image, showing strength and femininity and that neither quality is gender-specific.
I don’t know…I just think that this cover was such a huge deal, the LGBT community seemed so invested in his transition and his Big Reveal, I think he could have made an impact socially with the cover instead of just being Sexy Lady, which is such a predictable cop-out…so facile and without thought or depth of any kind.
@Kitten, I don’t know how much Bruce, now Caitlin, identifies with the transgender community, actually. Bruce seemed a bit divorced from reality. He didn’t want to end up being a spokesperson for the community and likely didn’t want to accept responsibility for being a role model or symbol of their struggle. And that’s good because Bruce was a terrible role model for his pre-Kardashian kids. I don’t know how good a role model Caitlyn will be for anyone moving forward, considering her narcissism, self absorption, and disconnect from the political issues the LGBT community faces. I’m’un’a wait and seeâŚ.
About that complicated relationship with her older children – I don’t know if it was discussed here before but I just found out that Brody Jenner’s girlfriend is named Kaitlynn, a more Kardashian friendly version of Caitlyn and I think it’s kind of strange that of all the available names, she chose the one that her son’s girlfriend has. It’s not a super popular name like Catherine, so it doesn’t seem coincidental.
Caitlyn was a name he loved and referred to the her part of him in his mind for years, way before Brody had a girlfriend.
I read that although Bruce was hurt by his older kids refusal to be involved in the docu-series, he came to understand it.
I also read that Bruce felt after he stopped being the breadwinner with Kris managing him and Kris became the huge moneymaker running the Kardashian empire, she changed towards him. He wasn’t really needed. I saw that happening in the show as time went on. What’s worse is I saw the same thing happening to the two younger ones. She was over being a hands-on mom years ago and was into building her brand. She worked all the time. The two younger ones complained about it a lot and so did Bruce. It wasn’t supporting the family. She was buying bigger homes, more things, but her focus was her career and fame. She always doled out the money to Bruce, very controlling. I think Bruce and Kris as time went on and the Kardashian fame became massive with Momager behind it that their troubles included far more than his gender identity issues. I think she knew more than she’s letting on and yet she didn’t know the full extent. I agree it hurt her. But they would have divorced anyway most likely.
You raise a very interesting point. So essentially, kris was exhibiting traditionally “male” characteristics, such as being the main breadwinner and having financial control of the family, and it made Bruce feel bad. Kris wasn’t holding up her (traditional) end of the relationship and put the responsibility of raising their youngest on Bruce….which we already know from his older kids, is not something he was interested in doing.
This is extremely complicated, and I’ve become very uncomfortable with how this is starting to play out.
Brody starting dating her after Bruce selected the name.It’s a coincidence.Now if Brody marries her they will have the same name.
Brody already struck me as negatively impacted emotionally and internally by Bruce’s lack of parenting. This is going to make things so much worse for Brody. The name thing of girlfriend plus father is just doing my head in on Brody’s behalf.
I’ve never much cared about Brody one way or another but this…wow. This is very uncomfortable and sad.
For once the tables have turned on Kris, when her daughters broke up with their husbands she lunched a horrible smear campaign on them now she is getting a little dose herself.
I can’t stand Kris, but did someone force Bruce to marry Kris and then have two kids or did I miss that. If he had this inner struggle, why would he marry someone knowing that they didn’t fully understand the situation. People need to take a look back twenty years ago, most people had no idea what transgender was. There was some talk about cross dressing and drag queens, but not really transgender. Transgender people were so underground and hidden until relatively recently. Now Bruce knew what he was feeling, but I am sure Kris did not. Also, to even attempt to blame Kris for his withdrawal from the first four kids is really disingenuous. First he was their father, and it was his responsibility. Also, he apparently ignored the first two children while married to wife number two. Was that Wife #2’s fault? I read that Caitlyn felt that her marriage to Kris dissolved, because 20% gender issues and 80% the way Kris treated Bruce. Caitlyn is now lying to herself, because Kris didn’t want to be married to a woman and that is what Caitlyn is now.
I cannot imagine how hard it must be to feel that you were born the wrong sex. I will give Caitlyn a pass on this, but I do wish she would stop talking about Kris and Bruce’s marriage. It is so easy to dump on Kris, she is such an easy target because she is the head of her commercialization of her family which is gross. Still all family members, Bruce included, willingly went along and participated. In this case I think it hurts Caitlyn Jenner’s message because their marriage and demise has a lot to do with Bruce. The snarky part of me thinks that Kris is behind all this media hoopla for more ratings, with Caitlyn now going agreeing with the mess. Caitlyn Jenner can do a lot for the transgender community, and I hope she does take that head on.
I wonder if Kris just thought he liked to cross-dress and that was it. There is plenty of confusion for everyone over what is transgender, transsexual, transvestite, cross dressing – is it all the same thing? These are just labels.
She must have loved him, so she convinces herself (with his help) that he just likes to dress in women’s clothes, so do it in private, I don’t want to see it. Then she closes her eyes to all other evidence to the contrary. I’m not saying she’s completely without fault but she is a human being. She had children, money and a life and wanted to believe Bruce just had some fetishes.
There is no Caitlyn. There is Bruce. This is so disturbing. Make up a new person so you can blame the old person for everything you did wrong. Your president is disturbing too. Why would he comment on this. Does he not have real problems to deal with or was I in a coma and your country became perfect while I was comatose. This whole thing is a bad joke.
So she dumped all her older kids each time she went into a new marriage and now that they’ve moved on and have their own lives, she’s cussing at them, throwing tantrums, and telling them how they’re hurting her and how disappointing they are just because they don’t want to be famewhores and worshipful of her on camera?
Things haven’t changed….
I wasn’t fond of Bruce and so far Caitlin’s no better. Her older kids are the only ones who are looking like people pf character in all of this.
Being the child of a transgender person is not easy, at least in my personal experience. While I’m happy Caitlyn is being true to herself (and she looks fantastic), as I was happy for my own parent, I feel for the Jenner kids. In my experience, the transformation is mostly physical, and the negative personality traits don’t magically go away. I hope Caitlyn is able to rebuild relationships with her kids, but she’s got to be able to say “I did things wrong,” not “Bruce did things wrong.” You can’t tell your loved ones you’re the same person you’ve always been deep down without admitting you’re the same person who walked out on your kids.
Kristin Beck, the Navy Seal transgender, was also a lousy father, choosing far more deployments than normal or than other Seals, because that’s the only place she was happy, was working, was an angry man when home, and was estranged for a while and later didn’t go and focus on them when completely estranged. Once, while still male, when “he” at the time showed up for a few days to see his kids, the son had plans with friends. Kristin was upset. The son said, you taught me that, that friends are more important than family. His ex-wife said, what do you expect? Even now she admits the relationship with her children while a little better needs a lot more work on her part, which leads me to believe she is more focused on her activism than still going and putting in the hard work really needed. I wonder if they compartmentalize so much that kids of failed relationships just fall by the wayside for them.
But does Kristen Beck publicly blame her ex? Does she have a fit if her kids don’t promote her in a public way? I’m sure there is some compartmentalization going on, but we can’t compare two very different humans and make a global statement about all transgendered people based on that comparison.
I read Kristen Becks book and no she most certainly does not blame her ex or her children. She is laudatory towards her ex in terms of how her ex took care of the kids. She is honest that she was and may still be an absent father.
Melody–you may be a good person to ask. Now that Bruce is Caitlyn, will the children consider her their father still or mother? Does the word and concept of father become detached from gender? And what do you think will be the reactions of her grandchildren? Those born while she was still Bruce? (Penelope, mason, Reign and North)
Kori – to be honest I may not be the best person to ask, as I haven’t spoken to my parent in 15 years. Because she was never a huge presence in my life, I generally just refer to my father in passing conversation as “he,” just to simplify things. (I usually tell people my father is estranged and my stepdad helped raise me – not untrue.) My father (in male form) and I saw each other a few times a year in my youth, and after deciding to transition (it took about 7 years) we kept up a correspondence, mostly via email (she lived 3,000 miles away at this point) and I usually referred to her as my Aunt Firstname to anyone who didn’t know the story. Then shortly after her surgery she walked out of my life for good (she had walked out for briefer periods before). She wasn’t a terrific parent – usually absent, blamed others for all her problems, emotionally manipulative, and overshared a lot with me at a young age – but at this point I bear her no ill will, just hope she’s well wherever she is and that her life was all she’d hoped.
Melody, thanks for sharing.
thank you for sharing Melody. I was hoping I wouldn’t cause offense by my question. you have a great deal of compassion and understanding for your parent.
If Caitlyn is just going to become another b!tchy female then I’m over her already…
I love it that Jessica Lange embraced the lookalike comments. Classy reply.
What was she supposed to say? I thought it was hurtful and offensive, and I’m sure even if she felt the same, she wouldn’t say anything for fear of the lynch mob.
Also, I don’t see how she “embraced” it (?). Her reply was actually kind of short and she said something like “That’s interesting info”.
I doubt that she found the comments hurtful. Between the photographer’s skills and Photoshop, those pictures of Caitlyn were really beautiful. No birthright woman should feel anything but flattered by the comparison.
Caitlyn actually was a good-looking man, so it’s not surprising that she’s also a good-looking woman. The damage done by botched plastic surgery in the past seems to have been rectified, starting even before her transition.
Kris throwing shade that she was working to support her family? Bruce continued to make enormous amounts of money on speaking engagements and all things Olympics. Kris was not the only bread winner. Watching KUWTK the disrespect towards Bruce by Kris is apparent. I’m glad Caitlyn is putting her in her place.
Different Susan. Just pointing out as I have commented in multiple places on this subject, if you just see the Susan then the comment seems schizophrenic in relation to my comments. changed name to Susan1
Wow. At certain angles she looks like Courtenay Cox, Peggy Lipton and Jessica Lange. Great combo.
HA! I was thinking the same thing….. He looks a lot like Courteney Cox. Also a little bit like Idina Menzel .
Kim said when she “caught” Bruce cross dressing, she kept it a secret for 10 years. Does anyone buy this? I bet she ran to her mom the minute she could. So Kris has known about Bruce’s cross dressing for a very long time and probably confronted him about it 10 years ago. Kris just wants to come off as a victim, which she is not. I wouldn’t be surprised if she used his “secret” as a way to control Bruce. She might have threatened to go public with his secret if he didn’t do what she wanted.
Also, it’s odd that Bruce seems to think getting gender re-assignment surgery is somehow going to fix everything. His kids will always hold resentment towards him for the early years. Also, Bruce is still the same person on the inside, it’s only the outside that has changed. His thoughts, behaviour, and way of thinking have not changed.
he was clearly aware of his gender identity issues yet chose to marry kris and have 2 more kids.
Bruce was a habitual liar – that is a hard habit to change. I don’t believe that changing genders will automatically change this part of her personality.
Caitlyn has been given a new lease on life but she seems to be stuck in the past. New body or not if she doesn’t start living in the present, righting her wrongs and MOVING ON from the past she won’t be happy. Starting a smear campaign and dragging the people in your life(that you abandoned and lied to) is not a good way to start a new life. Do better Caitlyn, people are counting on you.
Okay, maybe this is going to make me sound ignorant, but why are we treating Bruce/Caitlyn like two different people? I didn’t think being transgender meant having multiple personalities, and it certainly doesn’t appear that way to me. Caitlyn “hurled profanities” because her children refused to do a docuseries? Honestly? Caitlyn seems as selfish and absorbed with her-/himself as Bruce did.
I will wait to read the full article before I completely pass judgment from excerpts. I doubt Jenner will ever be able to face and admit the full brunt of his treatment of his four eldest children, but for them, I think the acknowledgement of their feelings probably goes a long way in helping to bridge the divide, and Jenner on her own, building a new life, where the four are more included. If Caitlyn has a great therapist, that therapist should keep Caitlyn focused on rebuilding those relationships, especially given how supportive they’ve been of the transition.
Other remarks by Jenner in the article.
“I have made a lot of mistakes raising the four Jenner kids. I had times not only dealing with my own issues but exes. [It was] very traumatic and there was a lot of turmoil in my life, and I wasnât as close to my kids as I should have been.”
“HIs oldest son Burt says things really fell apart when Keeping Up With the Kardashians was born:
âI think the nail in the coffin for the relationship was the beginning of the TV show,â in 2007, said Burt. âThere was a you-arenât-part-of-this kind of thing. Kris made the choice to make a good TV show that was in their image and brand.â As she put it in a book she wrote called Kris Jenner ⌠and All Things Kardashian, the title âKeeping Up with the Kardashians and the Jenners just didnât have the same ring to it.â
His oldest daughter remarks:
“Cassandra adds, âI feel like heâs been the closest to us and the best parent when heâs been moving toward his true identity.â
This puzzles me as well. I understand the dual references related to the before/after timeline, but to suggest two completely different personalities is a bit much. It’s sounding like a Jekyll and Hyde. — Bruce bad; Caitlyn good!
I just read an article regarding Caitlyn being generous enough to fly her 89 yo mother via private jet for a visit. Bruce would not have done that, Caitlyn is quoted as saying. Huh???
Same question here. Surely a gender change doesn’t change the past or ones personality.
I will give her the benifit of the doubt. Maybe Caithlyn really believes that now she can be her true self – she can be kinder and more generous. It does sound a bit naif, because people don’t change that dramatically. But only time will tell.
So totally off topic but….. When I was checking out his oldest children imdb pages it now lists his daughter Casey’s parents as Caitlyn Jenner and Chrystie Jenner. Do they have to change their birth certificates? Akward…..
I hope you are joking ,Why would they need to change their birth certificates?
Nope was a serious question. He is changing everything to Caitlyn legally. So am wondering if kids will be forced to change birth certificates. I know they all say they support him, but if my Dad had done this to me (especially as a teenager) I would have been devastated to lose him. It is hard enough to lose a parent due to death, let alone have them purposely leave you. And yes I realize he didn’t die, but he is no longer their Dad. What exactly is he to them? Another serious question.
No. My father transitioned when I was a teenager. My birth certificate remains unchanged.
” But despite numerous entreaties from their father as well as the head of E! programming, the Jenner children refused to participate, forgoing financial gain and exposure in the process. At first their decision did not seem to register with Caitlyn. She kept hoping they could be persuaded⌠when she realized the decision was final, she became increasingly frustrated and on one occasion hurled profanities. She told me she felt âterribly disappointed and terribly hurtâ”
This struck me so hard! How dare she do that to those kids! Grrrr makes me so mad! Just because she is changing doesn’t mean everyone has to go along with her plans. Caitlyn is lucky to have those four kids support! It’s not always about YOU!
I foresee a breakdown in the near future if she can’t accomplish what her ex (Kris) accomplished: building an empire using family dynamics. Because that’s what it seems she’s trying (seemingly unsuccessfully).
She relied on Kris and is throwing her under the bus now that she’s ‘free’ but she’s failing to realise that Kris made ‘Bruce’s’ status as an Olympian profitable which was NOT easy. Caitlyn has it much easier, she has people rooting for her (and putting their rose-tinted glasses on), she’s already famous, she has money to put herself out there and the Kardashian and Jenner girls to round it all off. Will she be able to establish herself now without Kris?
This is a reply to #30. This seems to me as more of a compartmentalization and while I am not a psychologist I find this disturbing. Caitlyn has decided to place all her less than positive traits into the Bruce persona and is attempting to delineate a new and better personality as Caitlyn. There aren’t two personalities. There is one person, one personality that has hidden from the public aspects of himself. I find this very disturbing, very disturbing. There may be a co-morbid personality disorder along with the transgender issues. I know very little about transgender issues but this seems to encroach on a level of dissociation that is beyond harmonizing ones body with how one feels at a gender level.
Yes, there is a lot of mental health issues within the trans community and people are afraid to talk about it but yes, many have mental illnesses and there are actually studies about and lots of research that has been made about it.
I commented on #30 and I agree with you.
Very much agree with you. There’s something else going on there. The comment about flying mom on a jet was just downright bizarre.
I thought the flying Mom story was strange, but that has been topped by the revelation about the eldest daughter (which I assume may be covered here). I feel even more sorry for those older kids. Bruce / Caitlyn is a selfish jerk, IMO.
Agreed. Posted something similar upthread before I read your post here.
+ 1,000,000!
Seems like Bruce did his fair share in the disentigration of his marriage to Kris. He was hurt the children didn’t want to appear in his docuseries; how about all those years he hurt them by basically abandoning them?
I really feel bad for Kylie; she is making such poor life choices and there doesn’t seem to be a parent around to guide her.
Get over yourself, Bruce.
This whole thing is a three ring circus. I feel horrible for Kris not only are you getting a divorce after 20+ years but your ex looks better than you do now… Here’s one thing that is driving me crazy though Caitlyn said she told Kris he took hormones in the 80’s and had a b cup, “man boobs” as she said. And also she knew he liked to cross dress on occasion well how the heck could she not have known at all? Why else would someone take female hormones? There is no other reason than wanting to be a woman and especially add to that he cross dressed…. How many more red flags do you need and how could you not know? She had to of known I understand denial but this is crazy to think she didn’t know. I feel bad for her but she had enough time to run. Caitlyn looks great and I wish him and Kris the best but enough of the blame game and denial from both. And abandoning his kids from previous marriages is completely on him not Kris if he wanted to be a part of their lives then he could have. I hope in the future she is able to mend that relationship because life is too short.
Kris knew before they married, even if she may not have known the modern words. She just thought she could “fix” it, lovable control freak that she is. (Insert sarcastic emoticon of your choice here.) I doubt that love in the usual sense was involved on her part – she needed a new rich but more easily controlled husband to replace the rich husband who amazingly didn’t like being cheated on. The two younger Jenner daughters were just glue to bind her to Bruce. They both dumped the kids off on young Khloe for raising as soon as possible. Kris has an extremely limited capacity for love of anything other than herself and money and as a result has damaged all her children. Bruce was the better parent by comparison, but he also had a lot of limitations. Caitlyn can’t assume that her transgender issues were the cause of those limitations and so she still has to recognize and deal with them. Her older children seem to think there is hope she will become a better person and a better parent, although time will tell. I would look at whether or not she does anything helpful with her youngest, who needs her the most.
Caitlyn had no reason to be surprised that her four older children refused to take part in her TV show. They all advised her against it and said her transition should be mainly a private matter. They obviously think the show is a bad idea and not good for her or for them, no matter how many people blather on about how great it will be for the “transgender community”. Caitlyn’s first responsibility is to her own family. She may be just using the transgender “hook” as another excuse to ignore and abandon.
The Kardashians have been selling their souls on camera for years, of course they’re happy for a fresh plotline. But the K show was horrible for the young Jenner girls. The others were already full grown and if they wanted to be part of the circus, fine. But Kendall and Kylie were really warped by it all. They had no real choice. The more extensive exposure to Kim and her twisted relationship with Demon Mother was not good for them. Without the show, that exposure would have been much less at least, although the Jenner girls still should have been looking for a pair of wolves to raise them. I doubt that getting pulled into Caitlyn’s show (if that is planned) or all the K scenes about them “dealing with the change” is good for them either.
I’m thinking without the massive amount of makeup, special lighting, wig, etc., that Bruce/Caitlyn will look like a man in a dress.
Now, wait just a big ol’ amnesia minute.
On this very site, back in April, this story was posted about Linda Thompson, Bruce’s 2nd wife and what she knew.
http://www.celebitchy.com/424148/bruce_jenners_2nd_wife_linda_on_how_she_found_out_he_was_transgender/
The story posted here said this in Celebitchy’s words: “Bruce admitted to Diane Sawyer that he âwasnât as fair as I should have beenâ to the women in his life. That includes Kris Jenner, although Kris knew about Bruceâs transition for some time as he was taking female hormones for five years in the 80s and still had breasts when he met her. (Bruce stopped the hormones as he wasnât ready to go through with it.)”
(the original article that this post was about was in Huffington, penned by Linda Thompson, and in it she maintained she was the first one to know and that he had started to transition while they were still married, even having electrolysis done on his jaw and chest and taking injections to grown female-appearing breasts. His breasts were large enough that Brandon and Brody asked her about them, according to Linda:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-thompson/bruce-jenner-linda-thompson_b_7080918.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067
But NOW, the story is Kris didn’t know? Or, more cagily, “didn’t FULLY know”? Please. The woman lies like my cat licks itself. My guess is she was willing to grab a famous name meal ticket to up her celeb-climb, even if said famous name was already transitioning. Maybe she assumed she could make him stop the process, as she certainly believes she rules the earth. But no way, no WAY, can I take seriously the idea that she’s now poor Kris, just naive and stunned.
They both made a Faustian Bargain to suit needs and wants.
exactly, Kiddo. But they KNEW.
There are no heroes here. There are victims, though. I feel very sorry for the oldest 2 children.
All I got from 99% of the posts here was judgement on Jenner’s parenting. Regardless of whether the issue is in the public domain or not, it’s really nobody else’s business. It’s between Jenner and Jenner’s kids. All of this tut tutting over ‘bad parenting’ and second hand ‘concern’ for Jenner’s first 4 kids is a very strange phenomenon.
….Cheban?
Haha, Had to look that up.
Jenner has made it people’s business when he/she has been part of a reality show empire for nearly a decade, when she went on 20/20 to share her story, when she posed in lingerie on the cover of vanity fair and inside went on about all sort of private family matters, when she decides to do another E! reality show. Nobody’s business? Caitlyn made it EVERYBODY’s business when she decided to do this roll out. People who truly want privacy do not expose their business they way Bruce/Caitlyn has been doing. Bruce/Caitlyn seems to want FAME AND MONEY above anything else so I think your concern for her privacy is misplaced because she doesn’t seem to want that for herself.
Don’t be naif.
I get what you’re saying but this ‘MAKING it everybody’s business!’ thing is weird to me, too. Just because it’s out there doesn’t mean people have to jump all over it and ride it until the cows come home. I’m not concerned about anyone’s privacy- why you or anyone else feel the need to comment on someone’s parenting, regardless of how public it is or not, escapes me.
People are ‘concerned for’ or outraged on behalf of his poor, daddy-less kids….why? It literally has nothing to do with anyone else. Its essentially an issue that should only matter to the people involved. Why it matters to anyone else just makes no sense to me.
I get that people here (me included) had an absent father and may still have issues surrounding that, but the constant chorus of ‘bad parent!’ concern noises are a bit strange, no? It’s like this narrative that people appear to be unable to let go of when it does not affect them one iota.
As Bruce, he brought his kids into the narrative, on Diane Sawyer. In the interview, Caitlyn MENTIONED her kids. She blamed Kris (and maybe a portion of Bruce) for the abandonment of these children. As Bruce, he displayed his children on reality TV. It’s about saying you are being honest and open while being dishonest with ulterior motives. It speaks to who the person is as a human being, it doesn’t matter what gender they are, or become, but who they are. Is everyone supposed to say because Bruce came out as Caitlyn she suddenly is beyond reproach, and we should ignore the children element even though she, herself, is bringing it up?
Caitlyn is conveniently positioning herself as a sole victim in this story and that is disingenuous and speaks to the Kardashian mindset of anything to promote self.
Adding: Hopefully this isn’t the tone and presentation of the show, going forward.
I ‘m not blind to what the Kardashians are, they’ve brought the concept of ‘self’ promotion to a new (low) level. I also get that Bruce was a bad Dad. I get that Bruce’s relationship with his kids was put into the narrative by Caitlyn. I just don’t get why this is a thing for so many people on this thread to the extent that ‘bad parenting’ occupies such a significant space on this thread.
I don’t know that being a ‘bad parent’ necessarily makes someone a bad person. Really good people can be really bad parents because of their own f*ck ups, and it looks like this was at least a large contributing factor in Bruce’s parenting. I don’t think Caitlyn is truly positioning herself as above reproach. I think she’s acknowledging that she made mistakes as a man and now feels better equipped to handle those issues because she’s a woman, now, or her own person.
And I think its absolutely marvellous that a person who is self absorbed, somewhat cowardly, a bit weak and more than a little bit clueless is the one who is going through this very public journey because it gives the rest of us, who are self absorbed, somewhat cowardly, a bit weak and more than a little clueless the idea that maybe we can try sorting our shit out, too. Maybe Caitlyn is not the best person, but she’s very human, warts and all.
@jessiebes- I’m not the kind I person who sees the best in people just because of an inbuilt, sunny, Pollyanna disposition- I’m sour, cynical, critical and mean spirited by nature. But I don’t want to live my life seeing the worst in people and situations all the time because it just makes MY life hell. It takes effort to not be a nasty, crabby, judgemental misanthrope but the effort is worth it for my mental outlook. So please excuse what looks to you like naivety, it’s practiced, studied, deliberate optimism.
I don’t know how else to articulate it other than I would feel cynical about the narrative, the motivation, etc., the story-telling and so forth, if Kris Jenner was transitioning to a male. I see Kris and Caitlyn as birds of a feather in desire for riches, attention and accolades. I feel like there is a level of con for self-interest.
Not that Bruce isn’t genuinely transitioning to Caitlyn, but that Caitlyn is a BRAND, a product, a commodity.
The words and actions of celebrities are just being used as a way to discuss more universal issues. It’s as much our business as anything else on these pages. We don’t know them personally, but it’s very interesting to try to figure out the whole story and what makes them tick based on what we do know about them. That’s what humans do.
And of course in this case, Caitlyn herself has clearly made it all a matter of public discussion.
She is as beautiful a woman as she is brave. But in the past, he who does not exist anymore killed a woman due to negligent driving. I just hope his crime doesn’t get swept under the rug by a group of over zealous people wanting to be politically correct and I hope she still answers for his crime..
Kris KNEW and he was the only man that bit her line (that was willing to take care of her financially after her divorce), there were whisperings around town of Bruce’s cross dressing.
now she is this poor uninformed soul, who was blind to love, yeah NOT believing that one.
Rob Kardashian’s EX wife knew of it and talked about it years back and Kris took her to court for spilling secrets. now how did her EX husband know but she didn’t???
carry on…
Gonna be a bigger stunt queen than Kim
âAfter Bruceâs second wife, Linda Thompson (mother to Brandon and Brody), took him to court for child support, Kris wasnât as willing to ‘integrate the families.’ ”
i.e., Caitlyn admits that – although his Olympic laurels made him tons’o’$$$ from Wheaties ads & motivational speaking tours – he just couldn’t fash himself over providing financial support to help a former wife raise his kids.
Can a physical change–even one as all-encompassing as gender–make a person behave like that, & then be Born Again?
*BTW, to be fair, the Kardash/Jenner Nanny ebook (never seen the show, but yes, I have too much time on my hands) paints a very different pic of divorced Bruce, pre-Kris. He came by a lot; took the Thomp/Jen offsprings skiing etc. Never imagined he’d fall so low as to be a deadbeat dad.
She is speaking her truth, but my goodness it’s self absorbed, narcissistic and completely absolves herself of the problems she/he caused in the previous 62yrs. Caitlin may be telling truths, but Caitlin is delusional.
i know i’m going to sound like a prude here, but Caitlyn looks so much better in that black long sleeved dress! she looks like a classic picture come to life. I would have preferred her cover photo to have been one where she was wearing a beautiful gown.. that’s just me though, don’t hate meeeee đ
I agree with the Bruce/Caitlyn analysis many of you have.
Someone said how did Kris not know if he said he took hormones in the 80s. Well my theory is that its kosher for the term to be hormones. But he could have told her it was steriods. They wont say steriods now because that would taint his sports legacy.
On botched there was a man getting his b-cup man boobs reduced due to years of anabolic steriod use.
I could see Bruce lying about it, when indeed it was hormones.
Meh I’m over this story. I find it interesting that she is disowning everything she did in the past as “Bruce’s fault.” Really pat and dry right? Lady, you changed your appearance. That does not excuse you for being a poor parent to your older kids. I also did not like how she did not respect her kids’ wishes to be excluded from the circus.