Jon Stewart got serious about the Charleston massacre. [Buzzfeed]
Angelina Jolie & Pax met cheetah cubs in Namibia! [LaineyGossip]
Adam Scott & Paul Rudd are bad wedding guests. [Dlisted]
Paris Hilton is in a bikini in Ibiza. [Celebslam]
Cara Delevingne has been working the fashion. [Go Fug Yourself]
A review of Episode 1 of True Detective Season 2: meh. [Pajiba]
Everybody’s feuding with Caitlyn Jenner. [Starcasm]
Minka Kelly looks cute, plays with her hair. [Moe Jackson]
Sad bro built a pillow fort to avoid his girlfriend. [Uproxx]
I was sure that Kylie Jenner got butt implants, but maybe not. [Popoholic]
I agree with Miley Cyrus: these tattoos are creepy. [OMG Blog]
Arnold Schwarzenegger pranks people & it’s surprisingly cute. [The Blemish]
Colin Farrell makes crazy faces. [A Socialite Life]
John Stewart is my hero. He does not have to mince words to be nice and he says what others should have been saying. Fox and its “he was targeting Christians” almost gave me a stroke.
Always heart Jon Stewart.
Yeah, because the shooter said that Christians were raping white women and taking over the country, right? How does anyone on Fox news sleep at night?
Really? I hadn’t heard that (not surprising since I watch very little news or TV). But it will be interesting how Fox News will spin it.
They sleep with the firm belief they are right and going to heaven.
So delusion, it is?
Yes, such delusional.
Stewart for president!
*Such delusional
ftfy
In other countries, calling yourself “news” and spouting lies is illegal. Here? FREEEDOM OF SPEECH!
They sleep because they cash big pay checks and at the end of the day that is all they care about. Sick but true.
Not sure this is true but I’ve been told that Fox News is actually listed as an entertainment channel not as a news channel. Clears up a lot of confusion if there’s any truth in that statement.
Thank you mimif and Kitten for the laugh, I forgot about that.
This shouldn’t even be a political issue. Because Fox poured fuel on that fire doesn’t mean anyone should echo their words. Even to disagree.
Stay on point. This was murder. The reasons were clear. Because someone else is saying different and adding spin should not have any weight on how we go forth and discuss this.
I hope I’ve phrased this correctly.
Wow, I actually hadn’t heard that part because I don’t watch fox news. Anything to fuel the “We’re so persecuted” and “racism doesn’t exist” myths. It’s like they haven’t even been paying attention to this guy’s beliefs and motives for his crime and just jumped to their own conclusion.
Florc,
I disagree with you. Although I do understand where you are coming from.
We need to know and be aware of the delusions people/the media spin in order for us to move past it and inact real change. This was obviously an attack based on race, otherwise he could have gone to any number of white churches (and it’s not like there aren’t plenty of them all across the US), and committed the same crime. That little fact easily counters the “attack on Christanity” argument. That’s why, IMO, it’s important to address any topics that take us off the truth.
Hopefully what I said makes sense.
@*North*Stars*, Fox News is licensed with the FCC as an entertainment network, not a news network so different rules apply
Lilacflowers
I knew there were different rules for different types of businesses. However, I didn’t know if what I had heard was true about them not being a new channel. The sad thing is, many people don’t know they are an entertainment channel and not a news one. I’ve brought up the news vs entertainment channel thing (and stated it like I did… I’m not sure this is true) and gotten vehemently shot down. Most people think they are indeed a news channel.
@NorthStar – they applied to be a news channel in Canada, but when the Canadian CRTC (media governing body) audited them, it was revealed they were unable to meet the “truth in news criteria”.
In the decision, the governing body stated that “a licenser may not broadcast … any false or misleading news” (Canada’s Radio Act) and the news pieces they vetted did not meet the criteria. And that was 4 years ago.
North Star
I see your point and don’t disagree. I just view it as more of a side discussion. Not what this story should be about. It’s about the deaths and a murderer. Not about the spin it’s delivered with.
And we all pretty much are aware of the news network bias.
Hopefully enough to see past it and understand it’s not relevant here. The facts are clear. The spin and bias are secondary to that. And imo it detracts from the very much needed discussion to make it about the networks and how they delivered the news.
As it is now. We are aware of the facts and how certain outlets deliver it. We appear to be wise enough to seperate facts from opinions given by those reporting the news to us. So, this can easily become a bash Fox News string of comments rather than this specific massacre.
That’s why I stand by my comments.
Did I understand your points correctly and we just disagree (but agree) or are we just not understanding eachother?
Another article on Fox News: “How prescription drug abuse is helping to fuel violence in America.” Because the shooter may or may not have been taking (“popping”) Xanax. The attempts at deflection are mind boggling.
Florc
I think we agree! Lol. I’ve no problem with discussing “spin” and deconstructing it as long as we don’t let it divert from the main topic. That’s basically what I heard you say and I completely agree.
I think though it is important to discuss spin and those spinning stuff in order to educates others. Using Fox News as an example, getting confirmation that they are not a news organisation in both the US and Canada is huge. That way it helps me/anyone else frame the discussion for future reference in any other topic of conversation.
Does that make sense?
@Kitten: I don’t think Stewart would do any better than Obama as president. The system is broken.
I was so glad the CRTC decided what it did. Propaganda and falsehoods should be be allowed to call themselves news. The fact that so many solely rely and believe what Fox “news” does is simply a sign that the movie Idiocracy is not so much a comedy but a foretelling of what will happen.
It is a tool created by Rupert Murdoch, to keep the bitter white middle and lower classes angry about the “others” as opposed to noticing that the corporate global organizations are moving their well paying jobs out of the US and that the Republicans party in particular are not working in the interests of anyone but the elite billionaires. Panem et circenses my friends….
North Star
We’re just agreeing with eachother all day on this.
Here I think people are taking it to be against Fox more than discussion of the topic at hand. That was more the direction I was taking. Now I see more comments that have drifted to mainly Fox by extension of this tragedy/crime if not only about Fox News.
People can comment as they like, but we’ve made the shooting secondary with the primary topic being how Fox News makes everything an agenda. They do. We know this. We are also easily distracted or just find that more interesting to discuss than Charleston and the actual actions there. Just look at the comments here. More directly to Fox either directly or by extension of this topic (with topic taking backseat) vs. comments discussing Charleston. It’s a landslide difference.
Kind of disappointing.
+1000000
Once again Jon is honest, insightful and correct. In a environment of tip toeing the real problems that is effecting so many, Jon shines a light at the problem. Him leaving is a devastating loss for us to have a honest discussion. I’m so sick and tired of injustice of racism of homophobia of sexism. Aren’t we supposed to be better then this? ! I’m angry. This is a tragedy of epic proportions and when are we as a people going to say enough! !
I’m sorry. I’m just so disgusted that we seem to be stuck in this culture that nobody wants make steps towards being better human beings. My heart, prayers and support goes out to the victims and families of the victims.
I’m so sorry.
aims…”we seem to be stuck in this culture that nobody wants make steps towards being better human beings.”
It’s so true. Knee-jerk hatred and blind ideology seem to be the default setting for so many people. Common decency and compassion? Drowned out amid so much noise. I’m so sorry, too.
Like Jon Stewart said In South Carolina th roads that people drive on are named for Confederate Generals that fought to keep Black people from being able to drive freely on that road. He also noted the Confederate flag still flys over the state of South Carolina. It is disingenous for state officials like Nikki Haley (the governor) to talk about this type of devastation and act like this is some kind of tragedy with recognizing what role that race plays in this tragedy. She actually defended flying that flag in the state. The man who who murdered nine innocent Black people had that flag on his car with the Confederate States of America. You can’t ignore the fact that that flag is used to promote hate and flying it over the state capitol as far as I’m concerned is a slap in the face to the Black people who were murdered. The hypocrisy in South Carolina is astounding. I know some people will say it’s just a flag, but it’s also a symbol of slavery, state’s rights, and treason.
Yup, this. Flying the Confederate flag and naming roads and parks after Confederate generals to me is another way of saying (to paraphrase a comment I saw elsewhere), “tough cookies, N-words, we still own this place and will run it the way we want, and don’t you forget it.”
I’m from SC and I can tell you, there is a huge movement within the state right now to bring the flag down. I think it will come down sooner than later. Please don’t paint the whole state as being hypocrites or racist because of the stupid flag and that monster who I will not name. I can assure you, we are heartbroken and absolutely devastated here. There have been prayer vigils and memorial services in churches in just about every town in the state.
You can go to moveon.org and sign a petition to have the flag removed
@MRSB I don’t doubt that people are devastated across all racial groups. I never once painted everyone in the state as a hypocrite and I certainly didn’t use the word racist. However I am calling out the institutionalized hypocrisy within the state of South Carolina, and I stand by my comment. I am an African American from the South, I know the culture, and why people defend it. Are there worst states, e.g. Mississippi who has it in their state flag? Absolutely. However South Carolina should not get a pass. As long as that flag flies on the state’s capitol, it is sanctioning what that flag represents. Knowing what the flag means to certain groups of people (and yes it is still a flag of treason, the race issue aside), the General Assembly could have it removed. There’s a reason why certain hate groups still fly it and endorse it. Don’t be sad about race oriented division that leads to tragedies like this, then sanction a race divisive flag (look at poll numbers on the number of Blacks who support it). From an institutionalized perpective, yes there some hypocrisy there. Also yes, I’m glad someone started a petition.
Well said Layday,
We can’t forever mince words when discussing institutional racism. Of course there are many fighting against these issues but there’s also an entire culture that fights to maintain it.
@layday I completely understand where you are coming from. I wasn’t trying to disagree with anything you said, just wanted you to understand that there are many, many people in this state, including me, who hate the flag and everything it stands for. We understand that change needs to happen.
I do think that positive changes will be coming in the near future.
Also, off the top of my head, I can think of 4 police officers who have been prosecuted in the last couple years for shooting unarmed black men. 2 for murder and 2 for attempted murder. Those shootings should never have happened, but at least we are prosecuting them and not sweeping them under the rug. I truly believe as a state, SC is trying to do better.
Not only is the confederate flag flying over the SC state house today, it is at the top of the flag pole while the US flag and state flag are at half mast in respect for the victims. The SC legislature has to vote on lowering that thing to half mast and they have not don so.
@lilacflowers not to split hairs and not defending the confederate flag flying at full mast. However, it does NOT FLY OVER the statehouse. It is on statehouse grounds. A confederate memorial was built some time ago and the flag flies at the statue.
The flag issue in the deep South, just illuminates the need for Rosa Parks, a beautiful black woman, to be on our paper $10 bills. This would be a powerful message to the world (and ourselves), about the values of Americans, that is, We Are All Created Equal. Seemingly, there are those who need to be educated, as to this fact.
@MrsB Thanks for your comments. I’m glad there are people like you in South Carolina endeavoring to make positive changes. In echoing what you mentioned about positive changes Rep. Todd Rutherford the Democratic minority leader in South Carolina just mentioned on Chris Hayes that they are going to take up legislation to remove the flag later this year, and it will be sponsored by Conservative legislator “Doug” Brannon, so I think you’re right. Positive changes may be on the way, so here’s hoping.
Founding Father Alexander Hamilton should remain on the $10 bill, he fought for this nation’s independence and created the treasury and banking system. Andrew Jackson should be removed from the $20 bill and replaced with either Harriet Tubman or Sojouner Truth. With all due respect, Rosa Parks played a part in the civil rights movement by refusing to give up her seat on a bus, however, many other women loom large for their work to abolish slavery and establish equal rights for women.
Yes to this! Is there a petition I can sign? Andrew Jackson was horrible.
Not only that, but a lot of our forts are named after their generals. Ft. Bragg, confederate general Braxton Bragg. Ft. Hood, John Bell Hood. Ft. Gordon (also a klan member), Ft. Lee. There are about 10 of them.
Was not aware of what was reported on Fox News … but in a bizarre way, I am not surprised. He seems truly affected – as many of us are – and he is a voice people listen too.
Was clicking by Fox News today and there was fake outrage over President Obama stating that we need tougher gun laws in his speech. Someone called him a “cheap politician” (I kid you not). Meanwhile, 9 people are dead. The head of the NRA said that he blames the pastor of the church (who is dead by the hands of someone who under no circumstances should have been allowed to have a gun) for his own death and the death of his parishioners because if he would have had his own gun, he could have protected everyone. Yet, the President uttering a line about gun control is what is cheap and out of line. Unreal.
Man, you guys are REALLY making me want a beer right now.
I beat you to it – I’m enjoying a cold Corona as I type.
No, Fox News, the guy shooting innocent people in a church is the one targeting Christians. The f*ck outta here with that sh!t.
Shambles, if you’re still here, I replied to what you said on the Taylor Kitsch thread, I hope you saw it.
I did see it, and I appreciate the support, friend. Stay golden. ❤️
He’s a voice of reason in this country full of hypocrisy and chaos. I’m gonna miss this guy.
Nevermind.
These tragedies will happen again and again.
Nothing will change till some politician’s precious darling ends up at the wrong end of the gun.
Till then this will become a new national past time: new massacre, shooter treated with kid gloves and brought in without a scratch on him, a little time past and then a whole new slew of victims.
I don’t think even then will it change anything. Because it’ll end up STILL being ‘we need more guns to feel safe’ kinda BS. The U.S. is quickly becoming a very unsafe place due to the proliferation of guns. Even more so if you aren’t white and male. 😥
Olenna
Sometimes screaming seems to be the only thing that makes sense.
If nothing was done after the slaughtering of 20+ first graders, I can’t imagine the scenario where these politicians wake up and do the right thing.
Yup. Exactly.
Agreed. The gun lobby’s money in their pockets is more important than anyone’s life.
So sad, yet so true.
Yep, I’m still sickened by that day and you’re right. More people bought guns after Sandy Hook than had been before it.
You are so right. Jon is so right. Nothing will change. The NRA and the politicians who support them will make sure of that. Incidents like this will continue happen, continue to break the hearts of normal, caring people who want to live in a world where they don’t have fear someone will shoot them because of the color of their skin, the sex they identify with, the person they choose to love, the religion they choose to follow, or just because an azzhole with an open carry license or illegal weapon is having a bad day and loses their shit like that fu*ker in Florida who killed a young black man at a gas station because his music was too loud. Jeezus Christ, I just feel like screaming right now.
Tate, Bingo. I was so upset in the aftermath of Sandy Hook at what our gun culture had wrought that it almost felt like an out of body experience. At this point I just feel numb.
No. The Sandy Hook shooting should have been the breaking point but it wasn’t. If children being killed their classroom didn’t change anything nothing will. As long as that 2nd Amendment is on the books and people in this country refuse to actually go through the Constitution and amend items, nothing is going to change.
I don’t blame the 2nd Amendment. However, I do blame the NRA for twisting the 2nd Amendment to suit the gun makers needs (really their wallets). At one time, we understood that gun control made sense, all with the 2nd Amendment still in place.
No I do not merely mean children.
Children mean nothing.
But the children of the politicians? Their own blood? I don’t think there’s be as much waffling if instead of the grieving parents of Sandy Hook politicians had to come home to their own quiet houses and empty beds.
I don’t think anything except that will cause change.
Eternal
I honestly see even the massacre of the politicians’ children as another fodder for the gun makers to vote for even MORE guns — not less. Big Money has made themselves too valuable to almost every politician that they are almost untouchable.
Unless, as the Lorax once stated, unless someone does something about it. In this case, that’s us, the voters. We have to become much louder than Big Money, in order to make our country (and world) safer and healthier for everyone.
What happened at Sandy Hook was a loop hole inside a loop hole as far as restrctions and regulations keeping guns away from dangerous/unstable people.
It was tragic. I knew a teacher killed. I live not far and the news is constantly running stories about it. It’s kept fresh in our minds here.
My point is it’s been examined many ways and in truth if someone wants guns and wants to harm others they will find a way. The way to prevent that would be a prison nation.
It’s awful, and tragic, but we have to view this differently. We have to have a better system. Not about keeping those from getting weapons, but about preventing them from feeling they need that extreme. Prevent this hatred. I understand this is hard to achieve. Perfect world and all.
But you can’t control the thoughts and hearts of others, FLORC.
Florc
I think the solution needs to be multilayered as the problem clearly is. Not only do we need to address, as you suggest, the system, we also need to change the entire culture that thinks “might is right” and “more guns solve everything”. The solution needs to encompass our handling of: mental illness, poverty, problem solving, race/religion/sexual orientation/gender/different-ability, legislation, politics, and culture*. This issue won’t be solved with any one thing, it’s simply too complex.
*Did I miss any subjugated groups? If so, I’m sorry and please add yourself to my list.
Kitten
True. And it’s a terrible day when we can do that. You can take more preventative steps imo. Not in any way full proof, but to not promote hatred certainly does help.
NorthStar
We’re thinking about the same it appears. Although, I do see and understand the need for might and weapons. That’s why more of a focus on mental illness, poverty, hunger should be priorities to address.
I don’t have the answers or a plan. Just some foundation (like we all do) on what promotes health and happiness. And what breeds resentment and hatred.
On a large scale it’s tough. Too many variables. Though, if it was simple it would have happened. At least many people have their hearts in the right place. Or else these acts would be a lot more common than they are now.
And i’m not set to add to your list. It’s covered all I can think of in passing. Though, i’m also someone that doesn’t give a 2nd thought to gender identity or partner preference. I just don’t care. It never bothered me so it’s tough to understand why others take issue with it. Very much lik What’s the BFD?
We can say that lots of shootings should have been the breaking point. Columbine was mine initially, in terms of school shootings, but look at this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
Which one should have been the last one? Which one should have been the tipping point?
In terms of legislators, JFK was assassinated in broad daylight in 1963. Should he have been the the tipping point? Gabby Giffords was fighting for her life after being mowed down a couple of years ago, among other victims. Shouldn’t that have been a tipping point?
We cannot absolve ourselves of inaction, waiting for another horrific event being this mythical tipping point. So let’s act.
Sign petitions, call your Congresspeople, find out when the next march is and join it, recruit your Facebook friends. Your solitary voice can be added to a chorus of protest to make it louder and harder to ignore.
I agree Hawkeye. Basically we need to be LOUDER than the gun makers about this issue.
All these people that perpetrate crimes most likely have mental health issues but we as a nation should not be helping them by giving everyone easy access to guns.
Your comment gave me goose bumps. Any (and every!) one of those shootings should have been the tipping point. I get so world weary sometimes.
Politicians themselves have been on the wrong end of a gun: Alexander Hamilton; Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, George Wallace, Ronald Reagan, Harvey Milk, George Moscone, Gabby Giffords and nothing is ever done
Eternal
Apparently there ARE lawmakers that are starting to see the light. Equally important is the fact there are organisations willing to take on the NRA. It certainly isn’t perfect but it is a start.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113292/nras-end-real-gun-control-movement-has-arrived
It will end when we admit that the profoundly mentally ill should be stripped of their second amendment rights and refused access to any weapon until approved by a therapist. The movie theater shooter, the Virginia Tech shooter and the guy who shot up the elementary school all had noted psychiatric issues and no one did, or could do, a thing about it.
My favorite people are those who keep saying “We don’t know what caused this! What his motivations were!” eventhough the guy himself said it was racially motivated, like, i’ve seen some very impressive mental gymnastics from politicians, Fox News anchors and pundits, Twitter users. Very impressive!
On a lighter note, that Miley Cyrus tattoo story was hilarious.
Yep no idea of his motives. In that picture they keep showing he is wearing a jacket with patches from Rhodisia and Apartheid-era South Africa. Yep, pretty ambiguous, no idea; she said sarcastically. FFS!!!!!!
Rhodesian flag, Apartheid SA flag… and, of course, the Confederate flag still flying in the great state of SC. No connections here, of course. And they’re all just separate purely symbolic bits of thread and fabric, right? Right.
It suits Fox to paint this as primarily anti-Christian, and it suits NRA supporters to paint this as an uncontrollable anomaly… the wild card price of freedom we have via under-regulated guns.
It is terribly convenient for the same people who ignore how the symbolism and what is meant by it is related & relevant, as it easier for them to downplay the symbolism and importance of that historical black church in particular.
The guy has serious issues that would have been revealed with or without a flag. He’s an angry loser who uses a hatred of others to mask the hatred he has for himself. Don’t let the flag issue throw you off.
I’m going to miss Jon Stewart.
God me too. He’s the man our generation has looked to for so long. He had me in tears last night.
Me, too… mostly because so few people do it – and deliver it, consistently – as well as he does.
But I absolutely understand that at a certain point in your life, sarcasm and satire and pointing out the absurdity and throwing spitballs from the back of the classroom and drawing connections with big fat crayolas leaves you frustrated for a little more earnest, hands-on, in-depth involvement.
I’m sad that he’s ending this run, but I know why he’s choosing something else for now. He’s mentored & encouraged a whole bunch of folks, he’s led them by example in combining social conscience with biting intellectual acumen and absolute silliness, and I’m hoping they take all that in their messenger bags and run with it.
Yup. I get it too and it still makes me sad.
I’m so f*cking Tired, sad, weary over it, I spent my Afternoon yesterday just awash on heartbreak , like I ended just trying to take a Load off people and leave everyone that wanted a sweet word a nice thing on their facebooks just cause everyone I know is rubbed f*cking raw and it’s not even July Yet ….so I’m glad that when brown voices won’t get heard at least Jon Stewart got the sway and audience to call this TERRORIST act by A RACIST for what it is
But The Media Writ Large is probably too busy trying tripping over themselves to paint Nuance on this MF and “troubled young man” and ” Isolated Incident” that they probably won’t cover this righteous rant like they should, It’d mean reckoning with casual racism, hate groups in SC, gun control and Black Lives matter all at once and LOL No that’s not about to happen
A while back, I forget which maniacal shooter, it seemed that specialists were aired, and cautioned STRONGLY about not making these killers a big deal. For a minute, it seemed like media heeded the message and backed-off on fueling the infamous glory spectacle that usually occurs after these horrendous acts, making killers into stars. We seem to be back to square one, and admittedly I am very interested in what makes someone tick and engage in such impersonal insanely violent events, I think this doesn’t do anyone any good.
It should be treated with the same dispassionate level of matter of fact reporting as is done with most terrorist suspects (granted, that isn’t always fair). This was more than a hate crime, since he left survivors to advance his message, which in fact, was intentionally done to promote terror and fear.
yes yes yes
I am not a person of colour and I’m in the UK where hand guns are banned – period. I have no words to say to you – I cannot conceive how anyone can do this to other human beings. I just feel terribly terribly sad and my heart goes out to you.
{{HUGS}}
QQ
{{HUGS}}
Black, brown, red, yellow — all the skin tones of the rainbow matters.
Politicians and the Media (imho) are too busy trying to justify all these senseless tragedies without looking into the REAL reasons behind them. In order for REAL change to take place, everyone (especially those in power with various earned or unearned privileges) needs to do a thorough self and community evaluation. Then, identify key areas of improvement, as an individual and as a community, implement those areas. But no one wants to look ‘bad’ so it’s easier to point fingers, make up excuses, or hide/ignore the issue.
That will probably never happen as most people are deeply uncomfortable calling themselves out for perpetuating wrongs on others.
Excellent comment.
Kiddo,
Thanks. I’m an American woman that’s as white as you can get and I feel strongly that we have to do some major self-evaluation to see how we as individuals and as a community contribute to these horrific tragedies. And make no mistake, we all do. I however, want to be part of the solution, rather than continue to be part of the problem.
And as Jon Stewart’s next guest Malala stated (after his monologue), One Voice can be very powerful.
Agree fully
I second frisbeejada, QQ. I never know what to say on these American trauma threads cos I just lack the cultural experience to say anything worthwhile, you know? But do know there’s love and solidarity from at least two Brits across the pond.
Well said, QQ.
Speaking of media coverage, does anyone feel like it’s been really lacking when it comes to the Charleston Massacre?
@Kiddo-I saw your comments yesterday about not even hearing about this and the truthfully, I only heard about it myself because a coworker came up to me and was like “they caught the guy” so I googled to get all the details.
And I watch the news.
Just saying that when the Newtown massacre went down it was like BAMN news coverage 24/7-ticker-at-the-bottom -of-the-screen-type-shit. Like, you couldn’t avoid hearing about it if you wanted to but then this happens and well, not so much.
Oh, thanks for that. I didn’t realize that it was underrepresented in the news.I thought I was horribly out of the loop until I saw your posting. And when I went to Google News, at that point, it was at the top.
Actually I feel like it’s been all over the news in a big way, although I’m just an NPR snob (lol). The coverage has been very good and thought provoking with the exception of David Brooks twisting himself in a pretzel to make the “isolated incident” argument, saying that this wasn’t “ordinary” racism but something much more extreme. W.T.F.???
Everyone is posting about it on my FB feed, too, it’s really hard to miss.
I’m with frisbeejada and Sixer – being a foreigner, I don’t know what to say but all I can offer is prayers and love, and the hope that things change for the better. No matter how unrealistic that is.
You don’t have to be non-American to not know what to say, I have no words myself. I’m from the 60’s and was socially active and back then I truly believed that we could work together and end racism and war and poverty. It hasn’t happened and I don’t know if it ever will.
President Obama’s election was said to be a sign of America’s change for the better. Now, this is, I believe, the fifteenth time he’s had to address senseless violence, the majority race related.
I still have hope, but I just don’t know.
B. Obama’s presidential reign has only served to highlight how racist our country is. Even when he publicly (and rightly) addresses acts of racism that impact our entire country, he gets criticized. Not to get political, I just meant to say that we have a long way to go.
I’m not sure how much hope I have left.
The Charleston massacre happened a stones throw from where I live and work. Yesterday was just a blur of shock and disbelief. The terrorist wanted to start a race war. But yesterday people held each other, prayed together, cried, and screamed together. We either knew the victims personally or we were holding on tight to someone who did. Moments of grace in a flood of bloodshed. Today, is much different. As King and Meeting Streets start to move at their usual pace, the shock that clutched us yesterday, is shifting to profound sadness and anger that in order to begin to heal, South Carolina needs a complete change in ideology, and rarely do we elect the people that can help to bring about that change.
QQ, you have me in tears my lovely. Not pretty little tears– gut wrenching, Kim Kardashian ugly cry face tears. I, too, don’t have the words to say. I can’t imagine the pain. My own heart is broken over the knowledge that someone could still feel so much senseless hate… Could take precious human lives for absolutely nothing. It’s time. It’s f@cking time to wake up, and I desperately hope it happens soon. It’s so hard to have hope when these things happen, but I’m giving you all I have right now, QQ. Just know that I love your posts, your sprit and your sense of humor. If your heart is heavy, let it rest on the shoulders of the celebitchians today. We love you.
*big hug*
*cant stop crying*
One more heartwrenching tidbit I just read was that the shooter apparently said that after spending time with this group for an hour at the church, he almost didn’t go through with it because they were all so nice. But, in the end, hatred won.
Hugs to QQ, too.
God,i love this man! He said everything that i wanted to say,I’m going to miss his show:(
Every person absolutely can do something about what happened in Charleston: you can donate directly to the Emanuel AME Church; you can contact SC legislators and let them know that the Confederate flag must come down; you can get involved with your local Moral Monday group if one exists or the NAACP.
+1. I wish I could give you a thousand upvotes.
Jon S is awesome. I love him — he just said it, no mincing about.
I’m going to miss him. That was brilliant
Thank you for telling it like it is Jon Stewart. People are hurting. Denying the existence of racism or the magnitude of this tragedy only makes the cut deeper.
Jon Stewart thank you. Thanks CB for posting.
Thursday morning I was looking at the online news headlines, and in the list was Wikipedia’s “2015 Charleston Church Massacre”. I have seen this before, a Wiki entry included in the roster of the latest news. It’s as if the incident is so far in the past it’s now an encyclopedia entry. And it just happened yesterday.
So on to next tragedy to click on that will eventually make today’s horrors a distant memory.
This situation is so devastating I honestly can’t deal.
Same here. Found myself getting angry on social media at people posting smiley selfies, as if all were right with the world.
I have grown up I’m SC. I used to live in Charleston, and live a couple hours away now, but this is in my backyard. I can tell you, that SC gets a bad rap as far as racism goes. We are no better or worse than any other state. And in the case of Walter Scott and now this, the community is uniting and pulling together.
With that said, for some unknown reason we fly the confederate flag on statehouse grounds. There is a very strong movement in the state to have it removed. If y’all want to feel like you want to help, there is a petition out there to have it removed and it will be brought to governor Haley. I tried to link it here, but can’t do it from my phone. If you want to google, find it and sign it, we need as many signatures as we can get.
I’ve signed one petition to remove the Confederate flag. The petition I found is on moveon(.)org although I’m certain plenty of other sites have a petition up and going too.
Not sure if you mean this one: http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/remove-the-confederate-3
http://Www.Moveon.org/confederateflag
Hawkeye & MrsB,
Yep that’s the one. I just received my thank you for signing the petition and it’s close to 125,000 signatures.
Hopefully we can get even more signatures on that petition with having the link posted here on CB! 👍🏾
Yes, North Star and Hawkeye, Move On is the one I was thinking of. Thanks ❤️
I signed it too. As long as SC has a Confederate flag flying high I will think of it as a racist state because that flag is a symbol of my enslaved forebearers. I have family ties and we still own property down there and I can’t say it’s any better or worse than any other state since we’ve had so many racist incidents throughout this country but that flag is an abomination .
Thanks MrsB. We can’t let voices like yours be drowned out. You’re absolutely right that it’s not everyone who contributes to the racism, but it’s enough people. It’s too many people.
I have been saying this for years, and years and years. Now Jon Stewart has said it, THIS IS A TERRORIST ACT, commited by a terriost filled with hatred. It breaks my heart with sadness that 9 people in a church slaughtered to death by a young man with evil in his bones. This is just beyond sadness, it is devasting. When is it going to end? To be quite frank, I really don’t know but I will tell you this those 9 people will be gone but not be forgotten, therefor I would suggest that the people of South Carolina to put 17 June a day of remembrance, so that everyone including the 16 or more white extremist groups will not to forget that awful day.
As for that young racist, as a black woman, he has hurt me and my people so terribly, but I am not speaking for me as a black woman, I am however speaking as human female. You may hate me for the colour of my skin (that is a damn shame on you) but I refuse to show any animosity toward you, but I will say and this should hurt u and anyone of these racist groups especially those neo nazi shitheads”……. you do not deserve my hate, my anger or my upset, as a matter of a fact you don’t deserve a tear from my eye, you will however deserve something far more worse than any of these emotions I spoke before, that is is PITY.
My heart, soul and love for the 9 victims in this terriost tragedy.
I’m wiping away tears because of your comment, Kiki. Thank you. I hear you loud and clear.
Your welcome, I appreciate ur tears and I hope everyone reads the comments I have written. Because the Southern States is not a bad place to be in, but they have a lot of bad apples who spoiled the bunch. Also, they should ban the Confederates Flag. You already have a flag with pride that has Stars and Stripes colored with red white and blue. Although, USA have a terrible past, so does the rest of the world, and maybe has repeated itself but we have the power to prevent it from happening. If it can work for WW2 and can work for anyone.
I’ll be sharing what you said with the kids in my youth groups. It’s such a moving message of love Kiki. Even though I’m in Canada, some of the kids are worried that this might happen to me because I’m a pastor. My adopted dad was a pastor too. I told the kids not to let fear stop them from taking action.
Thank you, Kiki. Your words were exceptionally moving and speak perfectly to the sadness and confusion many of us are feeling today.
I read somewhere yesterday where this was referred to as a hate crime against religion. Because clearly there is an epidemic of elderly black women attending their weekly bible study class and using that class as cover so they could plot their next outting to rape white woman on their way to world dominance.
Thank you John Stewart. I’m gonna go cry some now. I’m sorry this……this….😥😥😥
Rick Santorum tried to frame it as an attack on Christianity. Never has it been clearer what the shooters motivation was. Hell, he admitted it to the police.
You just KNEW the some GOP knucklehead would come in and exploit this tragedy to push some religious agenda.
It’s like some people refuse to believe that racism is at the top of the list when it comes to this country’s issues.
This is what boggles my mind. He was clear in why he did what he did. He left a witness to tell the world. There is no ambiguity.
Exactly. He was very specific about his motivation for the crime- and really, both his reasoning and his actions show just how deep his racism and hatred run. It’s not really rape itself that he was concerned about or morally outraged by, it’s his hatred of black people and desire for segregation that fueled his behavior.
@Kitten: I agree. I think distorting what happened here as an anti-Christian crime has both of those two purposes: to push racism under the rug ( “Racism in America? What racism? It’s all in people’s heads,”) and to further the “We’re so persecuted for having unpopular opinions” agenda. Whenever someone raises that last argument- the persecuted for minority opinion argument- I find myself thinking, “Is it really a minority opinion if it’s been a dominant opinion in mainstream society and considered ‘the right way of doing things’ for centuries?” But that’s another issue.
Went home, watched the evening news. Had a drink, then another and the next thing I see the bottle is empty.
Then I woke up this morning to see that he was thinking about not going through with it because the victims were nice to him.
I am tired of mental health being an excuse for violence.
I am tired of the senseless violence.
I am tired. ..just tired.
he was thinking about not going through with it because the victims were nice to him.
There is no excuse for what he did, none. Mental health may well be an issue, but people need to stop using it as an excuse to diminish this murderer’s responsibility for his actions. (they are especially quick to do it every time the shooter turns out to be white and American)
I hope he feels remorse for what he did, if not now then some day. There can be no greater punishment than that, not for him.
He was welcomed with open arms and sat and prayed with the victims for 1 hour. Then executed them.
I am just….and I am not going with mental health issues. He is a stone cold racist killer who is proud of what he did and there should be no damn excuse for him and the ones that do should be ashamed.
You should read my comment before you. The greatest emotion he should have is PITY. Amd there is no excuse for what he did and I hope they televised that trial, and not Journalist drawings.
Kiki – this is late, but I read your comment as you speaking of yourself feeling pity for the killer, not him feeling pity.
I’ll still go with hoping he realises exactly how vile his actions were, and feeling the guilt and remorse he should. Not that that in any way lessens the horrific nature of his actions, or the hurt to your community. I still hope he gets life imprisonment for this, but all I can say is, he deserves to feel the full weight of how awful he is.
+1 to all your point, Tiffany. The murderer second-guessing himself because the victims were nice to him makes my skin crawl.
Excuse my language, but f@*k him and f@*k the media for trying to give him am excuse. Sometimes people let hate in their heart and they make a lot of bad decisions for a long time and they turn out to be monsters. It’s really as simple as that.
I don’t have cable and I’m so glad that I haven’t been able to watch the 24 hr news cycle on this one. It just would make things more painful. I’m choosing instead to focus on the love I’ve seen and the community uniting together.
I’m with you Tiffany, I’m just tired.
It gets to the point where you feel like you’ve lived a thousand years in one body and you don’t have the strength to hope or wish for better.
You try, you fight, and so little changes. Then another tragedy strikes and there is no evaluation, the ones in power refuse to admit, the vocal majority don’t want to understand. You just get tired. Its a spiral that doesn’t seem to end.
I’m not an American but it hurts my heart so much to see what’s going on. I think, when is it going to get better? Is tragedy the new normal? Is it ever going to get better? I just . . . I don’t have any more words.
I don’t think mental health issues alone should really be seen as a valid excuse for any sort of hate crime or terrorist act, because there are so many people with all kinds of mental health issues, both on medication and off medication, who never do things like this and aren’t filled with hatred for people based on race or nationality. And at 21 his beliefs weren’t created in a vacuum- somewhere along the line, he had to be exposed to someone teaching, fueling, defending and validating his beliefs, whether it was through the internet or real-world interactions.
Somebody with severe mental health issues could never have executed this kind of attack, anyhow. This took coordination, planning, and follow-through, the means of which are well beyond the capabilities of somebody in the throes of a mental breakdown. People have never wanted to believe that a normal mind can be twisted toward violence. That’s why we gave Nazis pscyh evaluations rather than firing squads.
I am tired of black versus white, white versus black, anybody versus anybody. Why the eff can’t we all just get along?
Power, money, control. What it has always been in wars and skirmishes.
And stripping “others” of their humanity for the reasons Kiddo listed. Because, if “they” aren’t human, then it’s open season on them and perfectly legit.
Well, once upon a time, a bunch of entitled a**holes decided to enrich themselves by making other people their property. To make themselves feel better about it, they told each other that this property was beneath them because of the colour of their skin, which was dark. And that was how the social construct of race was born. This concept of making people property, called slavery, was exported to the colonies that would eventually come to be the United States, and enriched a significant part of it. An entire civil war was fought to preserve this economy. The losers of that war, before they were the losers, committed treason against the United States to protect their right to own certain kind of people. They created their nation and called it the Confederate States of America, created their own flag, they named every landmark possible after Confederate figures. That oppression of property people continued in different forms, to name a couple: Jim Crow laws and disproprtionate mass incarceration. And just so we’re clear, this is not the fault or the exclusive problem of black people, so the next time you wonder why we can’t get along, you can ask yourself if you got up this morning and did something to address this history.
Wow that was powerful.
God bless you Hawkeye, because sometimes one gets real tired of the way people phrase the issue as if we all just held hands and sang Kumbaya already it’d be over with.
These were a group of older professional church-goers who opened the doors to their faith and showed this monster kindness before he killed them all sparing only one to inspire terror and deliver his message. All because of mindless illogical racial propaganda that he used as an excuse for his hatred and helplessness.
Ask again why we can’t all just get along.
I would love to meet you @Hawkeye. And I hope my comments and your moving comments make am inspiring movement to everyone in the worl. God bless you, remarkable man.
White racist propaganda should be targeted as seriously as ISIS propangada.
Thank you Hawkeye!!!
The governor says she wants to see him pay the ultimate price for what he did and receive the death penalty. As justified as that is, whenever it’s a hate crime, there’s also a worry of the terrorist’s political allies turning him into some sort of ‘hero’ or martyr for the cause. Plus, in one of the articles it said that he had planned on killing himself after committing this crime anyway, in hopes that the murders and his death would bring about the (disgusting) changes in society that he’s hoping for. I think a life sentence would make him suffer more for his actions than a lethal injection. (Although there’s also a possibility that because of the nature of his crime, he could be killed in prison). But then again, even if he doesn’t get the death penalty, people who hold his beliefs about race and feel that killing people over their skin color is justifiable will hail him as a hero anyway, so maybe it doesn’t really matter that much. The only small silver lining in any of this is that at least he’s caught now, and not roaming free so he can target more people and continue furthering his terrorist agenda.
There’s white aryan nationalists in prisons throughout the country. If this guy doesn’t get the death penalty, the aryan nationalists in prison will protect him for the rest of his life and regard him as some kind of hero, especially considering where he committed the murders since it’s such a well-known symbol.
He’ll spend his prison life answering love letters, be the little brother of the ‘brotherhood’ of white nationalists, and get regular donations into his commissary account, even though it may not be all that much, but money will still come in. He’ll sit with the aryan brotherhood in the cafeteria, the open general areas both inside and outside, and their gang will dare non-white prisoners to come up and start something.
I remember other people expressing the same points you have for this guy regarding the death penalty that they had for Timothy McVeigh and martyrdom. But they put McVeigh to death and I don’t really hear much of a martyrdom issue with him nowadays.
People with huge egos who go around doing bad things think what they do will be of monumental news forever. But time passes and the public’s memory will fade and future generations will have their own current issues to think about.
I was just going to say that, and I say this as someone who doesn’t know whether he should live or die, but if he lives to be clear he’ll be an Aryan Brotherhood darling.
He killed multiple black people in a historically black church that had its roots in the civil rights movement.
They’ll worship him like a King.
anne, you are probably very close to summing up his life in prison, and I feel sick, heartbroken and disgusted that this may be his fate. Imprisonment–such a small price to pay for taking these innocent peoples’ lives.
Supposedly, according to death penalty supporters, the death penalty is a deterrent from such acts of violence. Clearly, it is not.
By the same standards, then that would mean imprisonment isn’t a deterrent either.
anne: nailing it
Just read that Rick Perry thinks this happened because of over medication. That the Obama administration overreact when “accidents” like this happen.
I was going to resort to name calling, but there will be no point. Idiot!
I love Stewart, and he so often uses for good his ability to to reach huge numbers of people. However, many members of the Black community have said many of the same things and have been ignored or mocked. White people seem more willing to believe the truth about racism when it’s delivered by another white person. And as a white person, I see that this is part of my work, to speak out and have the difficult conversations that might help more white people understand how dire things are.
And a point of clarification: The shooter (not using his name) did not say Christians were raping white women, he said black men were. But of course, six of the people he killed were women. I don’t think he came up with all this on his own. He doesn’t seem smart enough to have researched Rhodesia and apartheid, for God’s sake.
Absolutely true. That is part of what made Rachel’s actions so destructive, sadly when it comes to eye witness testimoney and commentary on race relations the race of the speakers lends or detracts credibility.
This is true even of the recent incident in which a police officer wrestled a young lady to the dirt and then pulled a gun. The individual video taping it was a young white boy who was not disturbed so he was allowed to tape freely. From his words the accusation of clear racism were given credence early on.
A young educated and charismatic white speaker is able to drive the message home to a general audience that might dismiss his words from someone of a different race. This discussion has been had so many times but many are late to the party because for the first time the issue has broken through to mainstream media and come from someone who looks like them.
LouLou, the statements about Christians raping white women was a parody verse, on Fox’s spin that this was a hate crime specifically against Christians, when it was a hate crime against blacks. They deny the existence of racism in this country. I think most people knew what the shooter said. *Just adding this to avoid further confusion about what was said above.
Hear hear.
Like everyone else, my heart is heavy. Being a white female from the midwest, I can only have compassion and sympathy for everyone touched by this horrible event. I appreciate Jon Stewart being able to voice what so many Americans want to say but do not have the means to be heard. To be completely honest, I am fearing my social media feeds. I have friends, family, and coworkers who are extreme right. I am loathe to see how they will twist and turn this event or share toxic blogs to change the focus from the real cause of this tragedy. Caitlyn Jenner? I could overlook a lot of that noise. Anti-Obama? I’ve been numb to those newsfeeds for a long time now. Ferguson? Baltimore? Duggars? Gay marriage? Global warming? Small potatoes. But this… this is racial terrorism in its purest form. And, from my experience, these extreme right people often rally around religion to give them an identity and reason for their outdated beliefs. I know I’m going to see a bible quote being warped to justify some facet of this event. Are all extreme rights racist? Absolutely not. Are all racists extremely right? I’ve yet to meet a racist who is liberal. The pendulum has been swinging for a while now, and it’s not going to stop until it hits something. Somehow, someway, I fear this extreme right movement will bring a lasting blow to our country. Am I being unfair in my evaluation? Yes, probably. However, I can’t see it any other way. Hugs and tears for everyone.
… and I did hit social media. And came face-to-face with a posting saying if abortion was stopped, we wouldn’t need gun control. Now someone photoshopped a Democratic Party symbol onto the “jacket” pic of the shooter, claiming it’s the original. This is going to get ugly.
There’s a lot of blind delusional idiots out there and I don’t think there’s anything that can be done to save them. I’m grateful to not be on social media so I don’t have to see the rampant ones.
Why is so hard for the simple truth he speaks to get across to the (seeming) majority of people? There are no politics here, there is no room for politics with hate crimes of any kind, but most especially murdering innocent people. Times like this I’m both glad and sad I no longer live in my home country. Glad for the bravery and healing hearts of the victims’ families, those teenage kids who lost their Mom refusing to rise to the horror,to be anything other than dignified despite being in anguish, glad for the few who speak the truth in the media and the good people who help each other in tough times.
But mostly I’m furious. I’m no longer capable of being shocked. Columbine shocked me, I was close to their age. It seemed inconceivable at the time. But kids today, what must they feel – “Oh it’s happening again, I guess I have to walk through the school gates/movie theatre/church doors today and not really feel safe or know that I’m not going to get shot down for no good reason other than G-d damned ignorant sh*ts and their greedy moral-free NRA determined that any moron deserves to own a gun because it is their “right”. I know there is little Obama can do when it comes to passing laws on this now. And easy for those running for the next election to make promises they don’t know if they can keep. But someone needs to do something, America is broken right now when it comes to race.
I really respect Jon Stewart laying into the Confederate Flag, I grew up in Va, and you would see it on the back of pick up trucks everywhere (probably still do), and I was a kid who hadn’t studied civil rights yet or anything, and I never would understand why my Mom would get furious and start dropping F bombs like a bada** whenever she saw one. Because they were WRONG she let me know (she was from Mass.), because honestly no one else ever said anything about them where I lived. This was just Va. so I can’t even comprehend what it’s still like in the deep south. We need to speak up when wrong things happen, until our voices are heard. I really hope some positive change happens, against all hope here, because what else is there , despair? Then the terrorists and racists win.
There IS hope. Apparently law makers are hearing us and not the NRA.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113292/nras-end-real-gun-control-movement-has-arrived
Thank you for posting this, it made me feel a lot better.
I’m glad @Eternal. I’m glad.
Hopefully this will continue but it looks as if we the people need to get out and be vocal about gun control. And our intolerance for intolerance.
Jon Stewart stopped rioting in SC and possible the whole country with this. Call it what it is. That’s what’s healing. Truth.
Jon gets a standing ovation and a big loud slow clap from me. I lived in charleston for a while, left about six years ago. It’s well known that if a business has a confederate flag in the window that means it’s not a friendly place. Don’t get me started on that stupid rag of a flag either.
Cynthia Hurd, Librarian
Myra Thompson, Emanuel AME Church Pastor
Sharonda Coleman-Singleton, Reverend, Girls Track coach
Tywanza Sanders, recent college graduate
Ethel Lance, janitor at Emanuel AME Church
Reverend Clementa Pinckney, Emanuel AME Pastor and State Senator
DePayne Middlestown Doctor, retiree
Susie Jackson, longtime Church member
Rev. Dr. Daniel Lee Simmons, Sr Emanuel AME Church Pastor
#CharlestonMassacre #SayTheirNames
Amen
I’m a big fan of Stewart, and he’s usually very accurate. He did, however, have one inaccuracy in his comment. The Confederate flag does not fly over South Carolina. It did, though. In 2000, white and black legislators worked together to remove it. They agreed to place it as part of an historical exhibit on public property but away from the statehouse itself. The reason the flag replica (it isn’t an actual flag from the war) is not lowered now is because it is not anybody’s flag. Flags represent human beings and their present states, countries, etc. It would be an act of obscenity to lower the flag replica in an historical exhibit as though it actually represents anybody today. It must remain frozen in place as in time, not raised and lowered symbolically as the US flag is.
Now, sadly, whenever some terrible racist event occurs, people in the state, in the rest of the country, all over the world, spend their time rattling on about whether an historical exhibit piece of cloth should be fastened to an upright stick or a stick lying on a table, or perhaps not be fastened to a stick but lie on a table or be in a picture frame on the wall, or perhaps be in a glass case, or perhaps be a half block or so from the statehouse in a separate public museum, or yak, yak, yak. And the result of all this talking about where to put a piece of cloth is always the same. No actually relevant issue ever gets much attention.
Could maybe somebody, please, instead of pointing us to a petition about where to locate a piece of cloth, point us to a petition asking South Carolina to change its gun laws? We all mean well. I’m sure we really care and want to be helpful. And removing that piece of cloth from public property in the capital city may make a lot of people feel happy that out-of-sight, they can now just push it out-of-mind as well and say to themselves, “I struck a blow against racism.” But it will not make one single person less racist. It will not remove one single gun from the hands of even one crazy racist. We need to wake up to the fact that endless discussion of the flag exhibit is constantly and deliberately used to distract attention from issues that can really make a difference, like gun control. President Obama wasn’t deceived about the important issues. I just wish other people weren’t so easily distracted either. If somebody feels he/she just must focus on the flag replica on the statehouse grounds, then how about start a petition to add another statue next to it – a statue of suffering slaves? That way, when people look at it, they can see what it really involved. Now that might actually begin to open some people’s eyes and change some minds.
I am sorry but I couldn’t disagree with you more. Flags are symbols which is why people still use them — flags convey a very powerful message without uttering a word.
In this case, the Confederate Flag is a symbol of racism, hate, and rebellion/treason — it might not make anyone less racist but that’s not enough of a reason to keep it. The Nazis’ Swastika is another potent symbol of hate and it clearly has no place being flown anywhere public. Same should be true of the Confederate Flag. In my opinion, the Confederate Flag needs to be a topic of discussion and also removed from anything that is associated with public grounds and public buildings. Basically, tax payers shouldn’t be paying for a flag that promotes and symbolises hatred.
The State Senator who was just murdered wasn’t spending his recent time and effort in discussions about where that flag should or shouldn’t be located. You know what he’s been in the process of doing before his life was cut short? Getting body cameras for all the police in the state to help prevent wrongful police shootings. After the policeman shot Walter Scott in North Charleston in April, there was some real movment toward practical improvements, including those body cameras. Now, it’s just so sad and frustrating to watch the murder of the very man leading the way toward practical solutions being twisted into yet another (another!!! another!!!) discussion of that unfeeling, unbreathing, piece of cloth! Yes, all you say about symbols and flags is correct. But you are very wrong if you imagine it hasn’t been discussed. It’s routinely discussed as a way to avoid dealing with specific needs and issues. It’s so easy for the legislature to turn its attention to arguments and petitions about symbols, and so much harder to find solutions to the desperate needs affecting the health, quality of life, and the very lives of people in South Carolina. Without Senator Pinckney, it’s going to be even harder. I’ve lived long enough to see these flag discussions come and go many, many times. People raging at each other about whether a piece of cloth should go here or there, while children are hungry, teachers try to work without supplies or even properly warm/cool classrooms or clean restrooms, and old people suffer without proper care. Did you know that South Carolina refused the expansion of Medicare that goes with the Affordable Care Act, needlessly leaving thousands of people without health insurance? I know some of them. I want the government to focus on actual human beings. I’ll leave it to others to explain to victims like the Charleston five-year-old paralyzed last month by a passing shooter why the legislature should put off continuing the very practical work of our murdered senator in favor of more (more!!! more!!!) flag talk.
Myrtle
You’re upset, and rightly so, that people use diversion tactics to refocus discussions away from certain issues. And I don’t disagree. The Confederate flag should be removed as there isn’t much left to say that’s truly constructive. It’s a symbol of hate and needs to come down. Period. End of story.
However, people will always use diversions or red herrings to trick people into looking elsewhere. That’s not the diversions fault (which here is a flag), it’s the cowards that cannot and will not look face a problem head on. Blame the cowards doing the misdirecting and not what they are misdirecting you to. My opinion obviously.
And look here at this whole post. There have been a few side discussions but there’s a lot (A LOT) of focused discussions too. Now we all need to transform these discussions into action.
I understand what you are saying, but the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. Begin with a visible symbol, something like a piece of cloth on a stick. But, don’t push it out of mind. Keep stepping on. Change culture bit by bit. The hardest part is convincing the people who need to change that they need to change. Instead, they often circle the wagons and cry out they are under attack. Causes them to entrench themselves further to their beliefs and “morals”. I do like your statue idea, regardless if the flag comes down or no.
Since the nineties at least, South Carolina has begun pretty much every single discussion of race with that replica of a Tennessee battle flag. And that journey of a thousand miles has turned into a stomping around and around and around in the same tight circle so that other issues are never addressed. Please understand, I’m not saying that the issue should never be discussed. But I am saying that it is madness to discuss it first while with every day that goes by our lack of gun control laws may be putting a gun in the hand of the next murderer. There are systemic voting problems, and terrible economic inequalities in South Carolina. There are public schools so bad that the Federal government has ordered the state to do something about the poor education being given to mostly African-American children in certain areas. And now what I see coming is a state government wrapped up for quite some time in deciding where to store a piece of cloth nailed to a stick (no, it isn’t even a real flag on a pulley that is even capable of being lowered) while desperate needs again go ignored. School is out, and all over the state children will be going hungry because they no longer get school lunches. And government is absorbed with symbols. Children can’t eat symbols.
Murdoch and his shit media empire, peddlers of hate, fear and dissent should be in jail for crimes against humanity.
Totally true.
late to comment but i am sick of hearing the “rebel flag is a symbol of states’ rights and independence” BS argument. that’s certainly not what it symbolizes or other anti federal states (New Hampshire et al) would have co-opted it. the ONLY thing it symbolizes is slavery; the idea that blacks are less than.
yes I realize not everyone living in a state like South Carolina is a a hateful idiot but DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT or expect people to assume the worst.
what would satisfy me would be to see a non-stop barrage of South Carolinians willing to go to jail attempting to remove that nasty flag at every public place. Good people just lined up waiting to make an attempt, civil disobedience at its finest.
nothing can be done about private citizens (outside of shunning them) but the governor’s mansion et al is fair game.
so shameful.
Strange how so many people who purportedly don’t watch Fox News seem to “know” how Fox News is “spinning” this. I do watch Fox (and no, I will no apologize and no, I’m not interested in your opinion on it) and they have been referred to Dylann Roof as a “racist”, “terrorist” and “evil” – which is precisely what he is. The only mention of Christendom I’ve heard on Fox is in response to the surviving family members and friends of the victims who went to Roof’s bond hearing to offer their forgiveness and to ask him to repent (these people walk the walk!!). We can parse this any way we want to… racism, mental illness, terrorism (ambiguous term) or whatever. Irrelevant. We try to define it in the vainglorious hope we can “fix” it. You can’t fix evil. Personally, I wrote down the names of those murdered on a piece of paper and took them to Mass with me yesterday. I said their names out loud as I prayed for their souls. Say their names. Out loud.
On June 17 on Fox News, the morning show “Fox & Friends” ran the headline “Attack On Faith,” instead of acknowledging what has been described as an attack based on race (video below).
According to RawStory.com, Pastor E.J. Jackson stated on the show, “We are urging people, ‘Wait for the facts, don’t jump to conclusions,’ but I have to tell you, I am deeply concerned that this gunman chose to go into a church because there does seem to be a rising hostility against Christians across this country because of our Biblical views. And I just think it’s something that we have to be aware of and not create an atmosphere in which people take out their violent intentions against Christians.”
“Fox & Friends” co-host Steve Doocy later added, “It was released earlier, extraordinarily, they called it a hate crime. And some look at it because it was a white guy apparently and a black church. But you made a great point just a moment ago about the hostility toward Christians, and it was a church, so maybe that’s what they’re talking about. They haven’t explained it to us.”
Jackson replied, “Well, yeah, I don’t know whether, most people jumped to conclusions about race. I long for the day when we stop doing that in our country. We don’t know why he went into a church. But he didn’t choose a bar, he didn’t choose a basketball court, he chose a church.”
proof:
http://img.opposingviews.com/sites/default/files/styles/402×250/public/featured_image/piece/15/06/FoxNewsAttackOnFaith.jpg?itok=uoYJupzW
I guess it would have been about race, if he shot black people at a bar or basketball court.
Thank you Kiddo.
In this day of the 24 hour News Cycle as well as the news media being analyzed on other news programs we are able to see how Fox spins (and yes they do, and yes we can stop pretending they don’t) certain stories. We have videos as well as links to their headlines. We can also hear how politicians respond to this issue without being in the room with them.
Thank you LaurieH for praying for the victims and saying their names at Mass, that is beautiful.
I was at work when it happened and happened to pass a television playing Fox News. The banner headline was describing it as “an attack of Christianity.” So, uh, I don’t know quite how you think the rest of us are spinning this. They very much tried to remove the racial element when they initially reported it…and there IS a racial element to it, which is why it’s insulting to simplify it down to “evil.” All evil doesn’t come from the same root. Race is not irrelevant in this discussion, not when it’s been made clear over and over again over the past few years that this country considers black lives inherently less valuable than white.