Emma Thompson has always been a truth-teller when it comes to women’s issues, sexism, ageism and the entertainment industry. And I love her, even if I don’t always 100% agree with her, I still like to hear what she has to say. Emma’s promoting a new project – The Legend of Barney Thomson – and she gave an interview to the UK’s Radio Times. She ended up throwing down some hard truths about sexism and objectification.
Speaking to Radio Times this week, Emma Thompson, 56, described how unpleasantness towards women over their appearance has become prevalent – and she thinks it’s ‘s–t’.
She said: ‘I think it’s still completely s***, actually. I don’t think there’s any appreciable improvement and I think that, for women, the question of how they are supposed to look is worse than it was even when I was young.’
She added: ‘When I was younger I really did think we were on our way to a better world and when I look at it now, it is in a worse state than I have known it. Particularly for women and I find that very disturbing and sad…nothing has changed. And that some forms of sexism and unpleasantness to women have become more entrenched and indeed more prevalent.’
Shunning the pressure to look youthful, Emma hit the headlines just this week for her new transformative role as a 77-year-old prostitute in The Legend Of Barney Thomson, for which she has to spend three hours a day in make-up adding wrinkles to her cheeks, neck and even ear lobes.
Well, that was dark. Some days, I do believe that nothing has changed too, that women still have huge mountains to climb when it comes to our reproductive freedoms, our civil rights, our right to exist, date, work and love without being abused, assaulted or murdered by an intimate partner or a stranger. But on other days, it’s clearer to see that some progress is being made in some, if not many, planes of existence. While there is a lot of “one step forward, two steps back” when it comes to how women are judged and how we judge each other, I do think we are in a better position overall than where we were, say, 30 years ago.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I adore Emma. She’s a woman after my own heart, but this interview thoroughly depressed me. I agree that somethings are getting better for women. I also believe that sexism is alive and well, but people are much more clever on how they do it. It’s not as blatant as before, IMO.
It is undeniable that many things for women IN THE WESTERN WORLD are far better, however, if we look at the world as a whole, things seem to be getting a lot worse. Any person who reads the international news on sites like the BBC, will see that there are many horrible atrocities committed against women on a daily basis. This mirrors LGBT rights, which have definitely improved in the Western world, but are actually getting worse everywhere else. As a gay male, I am exposed to very similar problems with discrimination, harrassment, ageism & physical appearance to your average ageing female and it sucks. However, compared to what women & LGBT people are going thru in most of Africa, India & the Muslim world, my problems are trivial.
Absolutely. Things in the Western world are improving for women and the LGBT community. No question. It’s inspiring to see this amazing change and it gives me hope. As you said, then you look at other parts of the world and how they treat their citizens and it seems so outrageous.
An injustice somewhere, is an injustice everywhere.
I have lived, studied and worked on four continents: Asia, Australia, Europe and the Americas (north). I am a physicist. What’s interesting is that countries like India produce far more female scientists (by ratio to total) than do countries like Germany, Austria, Switzerland, UK, U.S… or the so-called progressive western societies. They’ve also elected female leaders. Personally, I find the West to be incredibly sexist. (You don’t know how many times I’ve been asked, “what’s a purdy girl like you doin’ studyin’ science?”) We just have to look at the treatment of Hillary Clinton by the media in 2008 – it was disgusting and a pretty transparent view into how women are seen in this country. I agree with Emma… I miss my strong leading ladies of yore, equal in wit and charm to their male counterparts. I miss the wit, reparte, equality shared between Hepburn and Tracey, for example. I think we have made some progress, but the fight isn’t over yet.
@aims- I think sexism has gotten much more subtle and insidious. It’s there but people hide it much better now.
Exactly. I agree
“While there is a lot of “one step forward, two steps back” when it comes to how women are judged and how we judge each other, I do think we are in a better position overall than where we were, say, 30 years ago. ”
I dunno. Yeah, some stuff has definitely gotten somewhat better – women’s sports, for one. The fact that EVERYONE was watching the US Women’s Soccer team beat the pants off of Japan made me feel really proud that women athletes have come so far. BUT, as a woman who grew up in the 70s and 80s, I have to say that the word “feminist” was never negatively construed by women, except by hyper-conservative, ill-educated ones back in the day. Now, all these young women who, excuse me, have all sorts of bloody rights BECAUSE OF their feminist predecessors, go around bad-mouthing feminism. Like, WTF?
I think sometimes females are their own worst enemies.
ETA: I forgot to mention how bloody fabulous Emma looks! Wow! She looks great! Looks around 10 years younger than her age!
We are.
And despite the popularity of the women’s soccer match, the team got paid, what, 1/40th of what the losing US male team received? So a long way to go.
ITA. I’m almost her age and at one time it was changing all for the better. Now it’s worse than ever. When in Jennifer Lawrence going to be considered old?
In about 5 years.
I quite agree with her.
Growing up in the 80s and 90s, I genuinely thought the things we saw our parents fighting for, that we were fighting for, had been gained and or on the way out, but somewhere in the last 10yrs, there is a 180.
Now I feel like we are moving in reverse and it’s made the world a worse place.
The only thing that hasn’t changed are the neverending wars, but I think that’s human nature. There will always be a war somewhere as long as it’s profitable to someone.
+1
You only have to go back at look at the body shapes and faces of actresses in the 1980s to see where Emma’s coming from. Everyone weighed at least 10 pounds more, and actresses in their 40s and 50s actually had lines on their faces. Emma has been around long enough to see how the pressure to be impossibly thin and to look forever 35 has increased. I continue to be amazed at how diverse the body shapes and appearances of working men can be, and how strictly women are policed. Look at what Judy Greer wrote just this week about the endless crap she has to do to get jobs.
Of course, Emma isn’t only talking about the impossible physical standards actresses have to meet. None of the easily-googled “women in the media” reports date back much before 2000 but my sense is that the trend towards big-budget action films and away from mid-range dramas can only have cut back on the number of film rolls for women. TV is the exception, but even in TV, I think we’re underestimating male dominance because a few high-profile shows grab the attention.
(I’m biased because I love Emma so much.)
There is data out there, I never remember which publication collected it, that shows a reverse in numbers of women in all arenas of Hollywood, and a reverse in the use of ethnic, non white faces in Hollywood and Fashion since 2000.
Modelling alone, I can name 10-15 non white famous/semi famous faces from before 2000. I struggle to name 5 now.
Same with acting. Whilst the ‘joke’ about one non white face per generation is allowed to be famous, many of the famous, successful non white faces are pre-2000.
Which is really inexplicable since society today is supposedly much more tolerant.
In the US, it’s as though it’s more tolerant in name only. Meaning, PC has ppl running around policing each others words and even thoughts. But the powers that be love that divide and conquer stuff , while the system fleeces most of those who are arguing. Equality isn’t about fair celebrity representation but ppl now find social justice evidenced via entertainment. The tools designed to put us to sleep are the focal point for many activists for social equality. Ironic.
I agree. I think she’s mainly referring to the physical standards put on actresses now vs 10-20 years ago. And I definitely think it’s related to the type of films that studios are making now vs then.
I think she’s talking society in general and maybe globally not just actresses. She’s right imo and I think social media has a lot to do with it as far as even more emphasis on looks. But pay and general value for women is lower than a few decades ago , in terms of discrepancy with male value. Also , the push for cultural relativism and PC means less criticism or camaraderie between women globally imo. Also motherhood is not respected and while judgy moms is a thing now and that demographic is known to be a valuable consumer group, that’s where the recognition ends. That motherhood is still viewed derisively speaks volumes and it’s even many women who hold this view now. How often do we hear the term “breeders” used as a slur? It’s quite a 180 and women are pitted against one another.
I think that if it has gotten worse, it is because of the commonplace use and overuse of plastic surgery and other unnatural interventions in procedures. There was a time, I think, when you would see some aging in actresses. Now the standard has become more ubiquitous in younger and younger actresses getting tweaked before, as in the old days, a facelift would be employed. Very few actresses seem to allow for even minimal appearance of age, even beginning in their 30s and 40s, and for some, ridiculously younger, in their 20s, to start trying to stop the clock.
ETA: She looks beautiful in the above photos.
Kiddo – I agree. I think the productisation of people in the public eye – especially entertainment – has reversed some of the ground we’d made.
(Bit different for working class/lower class/not wealthy – call it what you like – women, for whom economic inequality dictates the limits of feminism to make a qualitative difference in their lives, particularly if they are single parents. Feminism is no good to a single mother in a world where a single low-to-average income is not sufficient for a secure household. Since western societies are more unequal than they were thirty years ago, I think we could also say we’ve gone backwards there, too).
It most certainly has gotten worse as I have entered my 30’s. We as women seem to judge far more harshly on weight. I know so many women who are undereating/have eating disorders than I did when I was younger. I never hear a positive attitude with regards to one’s weight, even from people who are a healthy BMI. It is never thin enough. And men seem to want some model like woman wafting about them, a Marilyn Monroe would be HUGE to them now.
I also get so much flack for not having children. It seems to bother most women to no end that I am not keeping with the “standard” or the “norm”. I literally had someone say well so and so is pregnant and I want to be, don’t you want to join us? Really? I should do it to be part of the “in crowd”. It really is ridiculous how backwards we have become with feminism.
These female attitudes I described above are hurting feminism massively. Instead of standing together, we tend to want to tear one another down/apart.
Amen. The whole weight thing is out of control. I was just talking about this to a co-worker today. I told her how when I lived in the UK that so many men wanted to go out with me – and this was years ago. I’m an attractive, curvy woman. Not fat, just curvy. And I almost never date American guys – all the white American guys seem to want a skinny woman. My co-worker was incredulous that no American guys ever ask me out.
Also, good for you for not having children! I’ve also never had kids and all I can say is that I think I dodged a bullet!! And after watching a PBS program about our planet, I think that more people should decide not to have children. Hello! We have over 7 BILLION people on this earth! That is totally unsustainable!
I moved to Canada from the US and I feel the weight issue is even more of an issue in major cities up here(although I agree with you, in the US, American men can be very particular with the way women look)! I am curvy as well but very toned (I do cardio/yoga every week). Maybe I need to move to the UK next? 😉
That divisive attitude is part of the problem too imo. Ppl call those who have children”breeders” and in fact pet dogs require as much in terms of planetary resources according to studies. I have never heard anyone ever judge someone for not having kids. I read about it on this blog all the time though. I have heard ppl be derisive towards motherhood or having children, however. So I’m not sure who ya’ll are hanging out with—or visa versa. LOL some ppl love being a parent. Others want to parent a dependent pet for life. And some prefer neither of those. To each her own.
I apparently have been very unlucky in life then, because from coworkers to personal friends–everyone seems in my business and wants to discuss why I am “missing out” and how I will regret it if I don’t have kids. Not everyone has a live and let live attitude, some want everyone to follow the crowd/norm/societal expectations etc in order for them to feel confident in their choice IMO. I have experienced this in NC, NY and Canada, so it is everywhere too.
I have neither pets nor kids and don’t care if other people have either — in fact, I’m always thankful when I see someone take really good care of dependents, and also thankful when I see someone who never wanted dependents decide not to have them!! I don’t judge and hope others don’t judge me. But when they do, I feel like that says more about them and how they feel about their choices than it says about me and my choices!!
I’m in my mid thirties and when I think about my teenage years and the pressures to look and dress a certain way and compare it to the what current teenagers seem to be going through, I’m so glad I’m not younger! We could dress almost any way we wanted, Levi’s was high fashion. We were also allowed to be children for much longer. Now all I see are teenage girls walking around half naked in outfits that cost more than mine and I’m actually working and get a regular salary.
They also need to stop to take selfies every 5 minutes with their latest model mobiles and then post them online for everybody to comment on. Back in my days bullying happened at school. Now it’s on the internet 24/7. You can be called fat and ugly no matter where you are. Obviously they all follow these vapid celebrities posting endless photoshopped pictures of themselves on IG and feel like they don’t measure up. Cue underage plastic surgery and eating disorders.
It must be really difficult to be from a poorer family these days. The price of looking like everybody else has never been higher. The news of young girls prostituting themselves to get money to by designer goods really makes me feel like there is no hope for us.
So true! I just turned thirty and I’m soooo glad I didn’t have social media in middle or high school.
I think there’s been a stall and a bit of creeping back because men are starting to see the real, tangible gains women have made, and it’s scaring them.
I think men could write off feminism several decades ago as “women’s lib” and a passing fad. Now that women are gaining some traction, they realize that equality will not be stopped and their weak egos are pushing back. It’s also why they’re indoctrinating young women to hate feminism.
Whatever bros. We ain’t goin nowhere.
I didn’t take her statement as being related to women’s issues in general – she was asked about sexism in regards to appearance and in this case I completely agree with her. Women in the western world have more rights in regards to reproduction, making our own decisions, career but the judgment and expectations towards women’s looks have gotten worse. We live in the era of social media, selfies, instagrams. beauty tutorials, plastic surgeries and people getting famous just for being pretty, no matter how dumb or uninteresting they are. There is so much pressure now to have perfect clothes, perfect hair, perfect lips – it was always there, but the technology made it worse. And as for the show-business – correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m under the impression that the age differences between actors playing couples used to be lower in the 80’s and 90’s and older actresses had much more parts than now. Kathy Bates was a genuine A-lister back then, would she be now? And female musicians didn’t necessarily have to show their bodies to get famous – some did, of course, but I remember so many ladies with guitars or pianos, dressed in jeans and oversized sweaters and they were successful and famous. Right now it’s all about being sexy, dressing sexy, dancing sexy, making a show and the talent is optional.
Love Emma, she tells it like it is and she’s been around long enough to know. Are things improving? Can you really say they are when the likes of Cosby and his Attorney’s are making the same old tired arguments to defend his abominations? ‘Specially when there are people still prepared to accept the sexist narrative and routinely referring to his victims a ‘sl*ts’ and ‘wh*res’. That itself is a clear example of the normalisation of inequality that a large number of people still accept and in that respect no, I don’t think we are making that much progress. Considering we are in the ‘advanced’ West ( and I do say that advisedly ) where we supposedly put a high value on equal rights and democracy, it appears those values only really work if you are a white, ‘normal’ straight, white man.
I tried to edit this after I realised I’d drifted off thread but this danged machine wouldn’t let me. Ok my point is (and I do have one, honest) is that women are still judged by a different and frankly demeaning criteria. We have a fantastic historian in the UK called Mary Beard who is a Professor of Classics at Cambridge. Despite being highly intelligent and a wonderful communicator she was criticised by one Reviewer as being “too ugly to appear on television”. The fact she is a Cambridge Professor demonstrates that in the West at least we have come a long way. That some toss pot, inadequate male writer can call her ‘ugly’ despite her vastly superior achievements and intellect (compared to his) just shows how far we have to go.
I think things have gotten better, too, but there’s definitely been a massive backlash against women starting from the late 90s and forward. I can see how a woman old enough to remember some of the early rights movements is feeling worn down. New media forms have only increased the ability to spread sexist norms and standards into culture. Patriarchy is glad enough to give women some slack in the line, but only far enough that they can reel you back in…or let you hang yourself with it.
I think the rise of the MRAs alone shows a big step backwards.
Emma is amazing, love her.
From a Hollywood perspective forget improving on the 80s and 90s, they’re barely even matching the 30s and 40s! Sure more women behind the scenes, but on screen? Think of the roles Bette Davis, Katherine Hepburn, Ingrid Bergman, or Marlena Dietrich got to play? Central and vital parts, mostly gone. It’s frightening.
True story. I dreamt last night I was at a dinner at the Marriott here on my island and Barbra Streisand and Emma Thompson were there, seated about two, three tables from where I was sitting. My friend and I wanted to meet them but didn’t want to go up to their table and interrupt so instead we sent over a bottle of wine with a note, Just wanted to say you ladies are awesome. Anyway, the waiter pointed us out and Emma waved us over to her table and on the way over I tripped and face-planted. The end.
On topic. I don’t know that I agree that sexism is worse than it’s ever been but ageism which is entwined with sexism certainly is. And it’s all pretty tiring.
I completely agree with Emma. Sexism is just more insidious and clever and so, females are buying into what is essentially, a sexist’s wet dream.
The interview is not about women’s issues in general, but about sexism within her industry. It’s still very self-centered, and I wish she actually WOULD make it a general subject of discussion.
I don’t think we’re in a better position than we were thirty years ago. In the United States alone, our reproductive rights have been chipped away to such an extent that women in some states can now be imprisoned for having miscarriages. That isn’t even going backwards — that’s brand new, historically. Women in the Middle East are worse off than they used to be. And in the West, the focus on women’s appearance, and how it’s somehow our duty to be beautiful and sexy at all times under all circumstances, absolutely is worse than it used to be thirty years ago, no question about it.
Basically, while we have gained ground on sexism in a few ways, the sheer HATRED toward and between women is far greater than it was when I was younger. Misogyny is much more virulent and unapologetic than it was.
With all respect, Kaiser, I agree with Emma on this one. Wholeheartedly.
And yes, it is depressing. Not hopeless… but depressing.
One other isolating factor: what used to feel more of a communal or mass movement now seems to depend upon an individual woman’s ability to face so many of these issues on her own.
This is sad for a number of reasons. Mainly the fact that things aren’t changing as quickly as they should, but also an older woman gets hired for a movie – hurrah, finally! But she is actually 20 years younger than the actual character. So the Hollywood pattern of hiring women 20 years younger than the part continues …