This story was previously titled: “Natalie Dormer is ‘baffled’ people cared about her ‘GoT’ character marrying a 12 y/o.” We have been informed that Ms. Dormer’s words were taken out of context and that this title was inaccurate. Her full quote is that “After what we’ve done on this show—the rape, the incest, the child murdering — it baffes me that two people in a reasonably good, reasonably affectionate relationship is what gets the wide eyes and the questions.”
Ms. Dormer never stated or in any way implied that she believed that a relationship between a child and an adult was acceptable or that it was somehow preferable to the other violent scenes depicted on the show. We apologize for the misunderstanding.
You can read more of Dormer’s response to this story on Gossip Cop.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN
How is it hard to understand that a sexual relationship between a child an an adult is creepy, even if it is fictional? Would she be so ho hum about it if the grown-up was a man and the child a girl? Doubt it. But for some reason people don’t care or want to believe that grown women and young boys is just as gross as the reverse. This sort of thing needs to stop being normalized and thought of a good thing for boys to experience.
How hard is it to understand rape , incest and murder is equally creepy as child sexual abuse? So why not be equally outraged by those plotlines?
But haven’t people been getting outraged about those things? At least from the articles that are posted about that show that I have read on this site that’s what seems to be the reaction. I remember an article about people being angry at the rape of that one character that’s having a relationship with her brother in front of her dead son. Also, everyone was angry about what happened to Sansa ( I think that’s her name) on her wedding night. There have been a bunch of articles on the gratuitous violence and female nudity in the show. So there has been outrage on those other plotlines in the past.
Plus unlike those subject you brought up, in real life no one (well no sane person) thinks rape, incest, and murder are okay. But there are a lot of people that just brush off the notion that a grown woman having relations with a 12 year old boy as being no big deal, especially if the woman is considered attractive. People act like women raping young boys is some kind of coup/something to brag about on the boys part where as the reverse ( a man raping a girl) is seen for what it is, a gross act of violation done by a sick pervert to an innocent victim.
Lastly, I didn’t talk about those other plotlines in my initial post because the focus of this article was on the creepy child/ adult “relationship” on the show.
Perhaps because everyone knows that the other things are horrible, but the actress responded this way when asked about having sex with a 12 year old (and the actor is 17 and shouldn’t have been asked to do this):
“It baffles me that two people in a reasonably good, reasonably affectionate relationship is what gets the wide eyes and the questions.”
You probably ignore this but this show is situated historically in the Dark Ages. In those times a wedding like this was your everyday wedding. If you look at many royal marriages this was the way to go, and not another. Eleanor of Castile married Edward I of England at age 10 and Marie Antoinette was 14, to name a few.
Personally, this plotline never really got me up in arms – not because a 12 year old boy with a 33 year old woman isn’t wrong (that will never be normal) but for 2 reasons: 1) Natalie Dormer is 33, but the character Margaery is supposed to be a teenager – a lot of the characters in the book are significantly younger than their show counterparts, a concept which makes more sense within the lense of a medieval fantasy, but which looks utterly creepy on TV today; and 2) because at this point, I’ve just accepted that when left to their own interpretations Benioff and Weiss will make strange editorial decisions, and having Margaery and Tommen consummate their marriage is another of them. These are the people that looked at the story and thought “lets add a little more sexual violence”. And to be honest, it’s a pretty minor plot point in a show full of questionable content.
I get that for the time period it was normal for kids that young to be married off. My problem was the fact that she was irritated that people were really put off by the character age difference in the story. Which to me is side-eye worthy because it’s not difficult to understand why some were grossed out by the way their characters relationship was treated.
I can at least see what she’s saying; it’s becoming a ‘thing’ to pick apart GOT for it’s inappropriate content.
Also if she wants to be bothered by anything she should be bothered that her underage co-star was uncomfortable with the whole thing, but still had to go through with the scenes.
ETA : Well most popular shows get picked apart. That’s what happens when something gets big. It gets dissected and analyzed; loads of articles get written about it. GoT isn’t the first show this has happened to and it isn’t going to be the last. Plsu a lot of the picking seems to be about stuff that was added in for no reason. As someone pointed out down thread the implied sex scene isn’t even a part of the original story so why add it? Just like the rape of Cersei in front of her dead son (which also didn’t happen in the books), unnecessary creepiness just added in that didn’t really need to happen. At this point this show sounds like it all about the shock value and seeing how far they can push the envelope.
Yes, things get picked apart. It’s the price paid for success. But an awful lot of criticism comes from folks who neither watch nor have read the books – just read below for some examples. I don’t necessarily agree with her statements, but I can at least see her point.
ETA: did you even read my entire comment? Benioff and Weiss’ questionable editorial decisions was my second point.
Just a side note. The age of consent in the UK (Tommen’s character is played by an English actor) is 16.
What was the age of consent when this supposedly happened, in History? I can’t recall…
There’s a blind about a GOT actress being a raging druggie and With all the s$):t coming out of her mouth recently, I’m beginning to wonder if it is her .
I heard it was Sophie Turner, based a lot on how she was at Comic Con this year I’ not sure how true it is to be honest.
I don’t remember, was he supposed to be 12 on the show? I know he looked way younger than her, but was it explicitly stated? They’re all much older in the show than in the books. That dragon girl was only 13, I think, when she married. Dormer’s character was maybe 15? I kind of agree with her, that with all you could get upset about this show, I don’t think their relationship was all that scandalous. She’s not coming off too well, though… And really, you can’t go anywhere without being recognized? Really?
Tommen was like, 8, in the books. Joff was eldest, then Myrcella was about 12 or so. Margaery was 16 or so, married twice already. In the books, they married to secure the throne and slept beside each other, and that was it. They did things like ride together, she got him kittens. It was nothing remotely romantic. She kissed his cheek I think, once.
Danys was 13 when she married Drogo, pregnant at 14. In the books girls are betrothed around what, 10 or so, then when they “flower” (per the book description) they can be married.
I misread your question. My answer doesn’t make much sense. oops!
You’re right about the aging up and kittens and all of that. And you just changed my mind about the show. I was sort of defending GOT for being realistic about how women used to be treated, but when I see that they deliberately included a sex scene with a 12 year old that wasn’t written into the book, I can only assume they did that for “titillation'” and I am very sorry I ever thought otherwise.
All of the characters are older in the show then they were in the books, not just because of the actors but also to make the plots line up better, and I think had something to do with them NOT wanted the Danaerys plot to begin with her at 13 due to the sexual content with Drogo. George RR Martin had addressed this in the past.
Younger children also can’t work the same hours.
The show has deliberately included a lot of gratuitous violence and sex, just for rating.
Don’t get me started GNAT, you know I can go on and on ad nauseam about things (hahaha!)
One though, is the “rape” of Cersei after Joff dies. It didn’t happen in the books, she was an active and willing participant, it was just sex between them. Also, the rape of Sansa, well, Sansa is no where near Winterfell, she is off at the Eyrie with Littlefinger living a pretty good life, albeit under a new name.
Jeyne Poole, whom Ramsey did marry(in order to be Lord of Winterfell), was a mean, mean man, but it’s not in the books much, it’s hinted but in no way actually written that he raped her on their wedding night. He did torture Theon as well, but again, it’s not a major plot in the books, it’s hinted more than outright detailed, and it stops quickly because they realize they need Theon to say Jeyne is Sansa.
whew.
original kay, I agree with you about most everything except the Jeyne Poole storyline. What happens to Jeyne in the book is far worse than what happens to Sansa (and that is horrific enough.) Littlefingers grabs Jeyne after Ned Stark’s death, and It is heavily implied that he puts her to work in his brothel (in other words, raped multiple times a night for years.) When she reemerges in the book, she is clearly extremely traumatized. On their wedding night, Ramsey forces Theon to sexually assault her and then Ramsey rapes her. It is also heavily implied that he later uses his dogs to rape her. Of course, Martin is more explicit than I’ve been here… forgive me for not wanting to write out the details! Honestly, those scenes gave me more nightmares than anything in the show. In this one case, I’m very glad that Benioff and Weiss altered the storyline. I do think they could have stopped the camera at the nuptial bedroom door, though.
They aged up almost all the children, and that changes how some of this is perceived. Yes, it’s very creepy to think about real life at aloe hooking up with a character who’s supposed to be 12. Is it as weird when you consider how young her own character is supposed to be? Perhaps not. Then again I do kind of agree with her about the kerfuffle because at this point it seems like people are just looking for things to criticise about the show. Age of consent is a modern concept, and the show is intended to be a sort of medieval fantasy.
Age of consent is real a modern concept, you are so right.
I have been reading on Empress Matilda, 12th century, who was engaged at age 8 to Henry V, King of the Romans, groomed by his court and married at age 12, Henry was 28 years old.
After his death she was, at age 25, married to Geoffrey of Anjou, age 13. Mathilda has been an empress and Geoffrey was the son of a count. She was not too happy about all of this.
All this in the real game of thrones.
An if the wife did not give birth to an heir, she was most likely divorced and replaced and afterwards married to someone else.
@dagdag – you’re right about age of consent being a relatively modern concept.
I mean, even Juliet in Romeo & Juliet, is 13 years old (going on 14) when her father orders her to marry Paris, who is implied to be much older. And Lady Capulet mentions that she was married AND a mother before Juliet’s current age.
I get that it’s fiction, but the fact that the heroine could be expected to marry and consummate a relationship at that age had a certain real-life basis.
Yes, marriage between nobility or rich people for a long time was just a way to secure and redistribute power and property. The marriages were arranged and although love could grow, it wasn’t the driving force or considered crucial. The kids definitely were married off as soon as they hit puberty (menarche for a girl) and even earlier in some cases such as ones involving important people like kings, although consummation would be delayed until the partners were old enough. Producing an heir as fast as possible was especially important because many people died quite young. The Catch-22 for the girls was that giving birth was risky. So icky though it seems, the storyline makes sense in the kind of time period the series is vaguely based on.
Americans in particular do tend to be more shocked by sex than violence, though, so I can see why that scene would bother many people much more than all the violence especially because of the age of the boy character and modern ideas about marriage and appropriate age for sexual activity. It’s a cultural thing.
Very disappointed by her answer. News Flash Natalie, pedophilia is just as bad as rape and murder.
So glad I’m not watching this shit show. Just reading about it is disturbing enough. Can’t believe they made a 17 year-old do this. The producers of this show are all shit-heads.
So you don’t watch the show or read the books and have no idea how this was portrayed, but you’re comfortable calling it pedophelia? Sure….
You’re right, the correct term would be statutory rape or hebephilia. Do you think that’s less immoral than pedophilia?
Honestly, it doesn’t really matter; pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia or statutory rape, in all cases a minor is sexually exploited by an adult who should know better.
And it doesn’t really matter whether I have seen it, it was stated in the article that it was an implied sex scene of an adult with a 12 year old. Nor, does it matter how it was portrayed. The fact that an adult slept with a 12 year-old should be enough to find it disturbing, don’t you think?
@Mazohyst – I wonder what the ages are supposed to be, in the show.
The characters are only a few years apart in age, since the actress is playing much younger than she is (her character is a teenager). I don’t think pedophilia has anything to do with it. Arranged marriages in such cultures were intended for other purposes, sexual perversion of the pedophilia type was probably as rare as it is today. They were simply doing their duty, namely to produce an heir.
Well for one thing, Natalie’s character is only supposed to be 15/16. A lot of context is changed with the translation onto the screen, as many of the primary characters are children or little more than children, and this is one of those instances where aging up the actress has changed the story. And I actually saw the episode, the parts with Margaery and Tommen were very mild – which you would know if you’d actually watched. It wasn’t about sexual tittilation, and it was added in because of the very real medieval concept of a marriage not being valid until consummation. You can call people pedophiles all you want, but children being married off for political gain has a very real historical context, and plays into medieval fiction in general extensivealy.
Well. She’s a wee bit fulll of it.
And of herself, if you ask me.
She’s one of those people that I’d rather not hear talk. I like some of her work, but actually listening to her interviews are a no.
Why has she suddenly got all annoying? Was I in a good mood every time she popped up before so I let her off? Or have the forces of darkness got to her or something?
That’s what I wanna know Sixer. She seems to say really stupid/not well thought out things….for her age (and I’m sure she knew the questions in advance). I’m going to close my eyes and imagine her as Cressida with her half shaved head.
She’s a good actress but rather up herself. I think she’s thinks she’s coming across as intelligent but its more a case of she comes across as ignorant.
What’s odd about this is that it’s a complete 180 from what Natalie Dormer said a few months ago:
“When questioned about Margaery’s seduction of Tommen, the approximately 13-year-old king, Dormer revealed she asked to have the scene changed.
‘That scene was altered because I phoned Dan [Weiss] and David [Benioff] and said, ‘I’m not comfortable doing this,’’ Natalie Dormer dished to the Daily Beast about contacting the executive producers. ‘It’s the nature of the beast that I’m four years into playing Margaery Tyrell and the big plot points of the book are in stone…George R.R. Martin wrote a particular plot line, so on the specifics of Margaery and Tommen getting married, there’s nothing I can do,'”
So, she previously talked about being uncomfortable with this storyline and acknowledged that it was sensitive matter, but now it “baffles” her that many viewers also had issues with how the show handled it?
I wonder if someone at HBO sat her down after the interview I quoted above and read her the riot act, and that’s what led to her recent “attitude adjustment”.
Well, after that Rosie Perez story I wouldn’t be surprised if she was forced to change her stance.
Rosie Perez story?
@InvaderTak:
Rosie was forced to apologize to Kelly Osborune by the people that run The View after Rosie got upset about Kelly’s racist comment all in order to protect Kelly and the show. So I was comparing Dormer possibly being told to change her tune to the Rosie situation. Since that comment posted by Dana was her original feelings on the storyline, I wouldn’t be shocked if she were forced to lie about her feeling about the storyline after being talked to by some higher-ups all in order to not bring bad press to the show.
Yikes- what awful responses. Agree- will just watch Lady W, and forget her quotes. As for GoT- just reading some of the plot lines makes me want to take a shower.
Seriously, lady? Totally cool with an adult and a 12 year old? You’re actually calling that a good, healthy relationship that shouldn’t raise eyebrows?
Her character was not an adult…..soooo….
It is so stupid for people to apply their modern day morals to a fictional drama set in not only a very different time, but a bloody fictional realm!!
People really have no imagination if they can’t separate real life from fiction.
I can’t abide this woman. She always comes off as a self important idiot.
Her defensiveness over being associated with period dramas is kind of amusing, especially this “B-b-but what about her???” deflection where she calls out other actresses as being more deserving of that reputation.
Besides her comments in this interview (“Kate Winslet’s spent more time in a corset than I have. Helena Bonham Carter has spent more time in a corset than I have” ), she did the same thing in a recent Telegraph interview: “Look at my contemporaries – say, Keira Knightley, who played the Duchess of Devonshire [in The Duchess], a contemporary of Lady Worsley, and Anna Karenina. She has played four or five historical characters. And I really haven’t”
She needs to chill out a bit with this – yes, she’s only done 3 costume dramas but GOT & The Tudors are far and away her biggest and most famous roles. And people actually DO associate Keira/Kate/HBC with period dramas despite all of them having far more varied filmographies than she does, so… why bring them up at all? It’s not like they’re getting some kind of unfair “pass” while she gets singled out.
Yes, she seems insulted when I don’t think the question was intended as an insult.
Love her petulant, banal dig at Americans as well:
“What Americans tend to forget is that I can carry a semiautomatic weapon and run around in jeans and t-shirts, too.”
Perhaps her referee skirt gave her official powers to blow the whistle on fellow corseted colleagues and dumb non-acting action Yanks.
Plus, haven’t Keira, Kate and Helena’s careers been much longer than Natalie’s?
There’s a lot of coverage on this woman lately. I sense overexposure is nigh.
It’s mostly coverage of her mouthing off and saying idiotic things.
I think that her comment needs to be put in context. GoT is a fantastic series that relies a lot on Medival times. For the longest time, it has been extremely common, especially amongst Royals, to marry young, very very young: Marie-Antoinette for instance was 14 when she married, and she wasn’t the youngest Queen to be brought to the altar. As soon as they’d be deemed old enough (yes, 12-13yo) males would be provided with ladies whose function would be to teach them how be with a woman so that they’d know what to do on their wedding night (Louis XIV was around 13, his mistress was in her 40s). So yes, weddings would happen the moment the girl had her periods. Child mortality was high and the necessity to have as many heirs as possible mattered to secure the sucess of the dynasty. Mariage has mostly been about making alliances, bringing money and lands together, the notion of love in such a union is very recent and was not considered that important. You had to have an heir asap though, which means that, regardless of their age, newlyweds had to get it on right away. In that context, an implied sexual relationship with a 12yo king is not that shocking indeed, it’s actually quite realistic.
That has been my argument all along, but I’m a little stymied by the fact that they changed the book, in which there was no sexual relationship because Tommen was only 8, to his being 12 and having a sexual relationship. Why do that except to include another taboo? I have argued all along that women of that era were treated like property and rape was considered almost a man’s right as the spoils of war, so why not portray it? But this one sort of got me.
I wanted to add that some of the posters above had reasonable explanations for the aging up.
I like Games of Thrones, and I think this was done to increase views. The first 3 trailers where the better ones in my opinion anyhow.
I agree with you both @Arpeggi and @GNAT about the historical accuracy. The people who are so staunchly against this sort of thing being shown on television remind me very much of people who judge history harshly based on how we live today–people had different standards during different periods of time and we have only come to where we are today because we learned as we progressed. We can’t change history and no one is advocating for behavior that took place all these years ago. Portraying it on the show isn’t defending it or trying to make it acceptable, it is just being historically accurate.
@GNAT, I also agree with you about the writers making changes to the story just for the sake of being taboo. I felt that way about quite a few things this most recent season of the show. I was disappointed with how much felt like it was only happening for shock value.
Not for shock value. They just decided to cut some corners with Margaret’s story with the faith militants and Cersei- it was a bit convoluted in the book, and it’s easy to guess that this was what Benioff and Weiss decided to do to expedite storytelling and try to explain why Tommen would ever consider siding with Margaery over Cersei.
Well, when they first cast an actor to play Tommen…he was about the same age as Bran so we’ll say 10. While in the books, only 2 years have passed, the TV show doesn’t have that luxury as the child actors noticeably age every year (this is true too of the actors in their 20s – early 30s…Kit Harrington, Natalie Dormer and Emilia Clarke can’t really pass for 17 – 19 anymore).
The show has kept things quite ambiguous timeline-wise as certain seasons need to take place only over a short number of weeks/months for plot momentum purposes but then there’s no explanation as to why Isaac-Hempstead Wright and Sophie Turner are a foot taller next season; and yet Gilly’s baby hasn’t aged at all. It’s just one of the plot holes in the show…I treat every season as taking place over the course of close to a year even if that doesn’t always make sense. With the Stark children looking notably older each year, I think that when recasting Tommen, they went with an older actor who could pass for 14 (Bran’s probable age by Season 5).
THANK YOU. The amount of presentism people apply to different eras is exhausting and futile. I don’t disagree that it’s uncomfortable to consider or watch or for the actors to perform. Natalie is older and experienced enough to think about the story context when she answered, while her co-star was thinking more along the lines of our present day standards and reflected that discomfort. But that discomfort does not automatically mean that the portrayal is inherently wrong or that the show creators should cater to these kinds of things.
GoodNamesAllTaken’s point is fair though. I get Natalie’s side-eyeing/eyerolling people who clutched their pearls given everything else going on in the show, and I get the gazillion changes that have to be made when adapting something of this scope. But I also see why legit fans of the book (I haven’t read that far in) are wondering whether or not sensationalism was the sole reason a sexual relationship was added.
Well said.
The question isn’t whether or not it’s realistic, but whether or not it’s ethical… Does the importance of portraying a certain event, place or period in time in a realistic way, outweigh the potential negative effects of doing so? This is GOT we’re talking about, hardly the most important, thought-provoking and educational material… There’s not much of substance there to outweigh even the slighest chance of normalizing child molestation in the minds of those who are already yearning to be convinced that it’s normal, and could be such a good and affectionate relationship…
I feel like Natalie and those who are fine this quote has never made any attempt to understand the minds of pedophiles, because this is *exactly* what they wish to be true, which is why it made my skin crawl.
A TV series/book doesn’t have to be ethical! It’s not meant to present ways to morally live in society, it is meant to tell a story. In GoT, the story is that the good guy won’talways win, nor will the one with the best political skills for that matter. The implicit mention that a wedded 12 yo had consummated his marriage with his slightly older wife has nothing to do with pedophilia, c’mon! As I and others stated previously, being wed young had been the norm for most of our history and the books/tv show takes that into account. Marriage had nothing to do with love and sex was not meant to be pleasurable, not with your spouse anyway (it was deemed a positive outcome if it happened), it was meant to make babies that could inherit the throne, the fun stuff would be with your mistresses, not your spouse.
In GoT, Margaery is twice a widow when she marries Tommen, in this context, it would make sense for her and her family to want to secure her position by having a kid asap and thus trying to get it on with her husband as soon as he wants it too. It has nothing to do with sexual desires or enjoyments (from what you can gather of Margaery, she’d certainly rather be with someone more experienced anyway), it’s only about doing your duties for your family and the realm.
Do I think that it is right? Of course not, but it is a reality that has been ongoing for centuries and it has nothing to do with pedophilia. Do I think that it must have been fun to play? Again, probably not, even if the sex is only implied to have had happen.
@Arpeggi: I didn’t mean to say the story has to be ethical in itself, but that I’d wish people had some boundaries for what they want to see portrayed as entertainment, that aren’t to be pushed around like we do with everything else that was once considered too vile to be broadcast. And personally my boundary would be that scenes of implied consensual sex with children isn’t something I want to see broadcast on TV. There are many ways to tell a story, and I’m not advocating censorship or saying any story shouldn’t be told, only that maybe not every subject is suited for popcorn entertainment and shock value..
Natalie Dormer is the definition of vacuous.
I’m biased because I have a massive crush on her but Natalie Dormer is not vacuous. I’ve watched many interviews with her and she’s actually quite intelligent and well-spoken. I think that this interview and the previous one posted here shows that she was a little too flippant with some of her talking points and she could have done with a little more reflection. So I won’t defend her here.
But the GoT actors are definitely between a rock and a hard place when it comes to defending the problematic sex and violence scenes in Game of Thrones. I love Game of Thrones. For me, it’s one of the most exciting and well-acted shows on television. The show introduced me to the books which I also love. I think George R.R. Martin is an excellent writer, he’s guilty of bloated plotting particularly in the last two books, but his use of violence, sex and sexual violence is justified in the books. It’s often more graphic than it is in the show but he uses it to fully explore themes and characters (the effects of war, poverty, classism etc).
Now Dan Weiss and David Benioff (acclaimed writer of Troy and X-Men Origins: Wolverine)’s approach to the show is much more shallow and I have been increasingly dissatisfied with their writing, particularly in Season 5 as they diverged from the books. Believe me, this is not a case of being a butthurt book fan – I’ve appreciated many of the changes from the novels (Arya/Tywin encounter in S2, Brienne/Hound encounter in S4, general speeding up of the plot) but many of their changes have been moronic, such as the whole Dorne arc, the exaggerated zealotry of the Faith Militant and Sansa only showing backbone at the worst possible times.
The writers know how to pull of the big moments off really well and they know how to do two-handers quite well too with occasionally great dialogue. But they’ve written many things that are completely illogical and not well thought out too (the timeline thing I mentioned above, deepening Shae’s character and then making her do a completely illogical U-turn in betraying Tyrion and Sansa). They do seem to lack an understanding of their flippancy with sex and violence; and internal consistency. And they can’t take criticism. They haven’t addressed the imbalance in nudity and after they killed off the actor who killed Barristan, he wrote them a letter explaining why he felt the character should live, they said they just wanted to kill him even more. Plus Benioff has even said “Themes are for eight-grade book reports”.
So I can see why the actors defend the scenes. They seem to really enjoy working on the show and with their fellow cast and crew members; but they have to deal with showrunners who can’t take criticism. They don’t write all the problematic stuff and I do feel sorry for the actresses who have to defend the seedier aspects of the show because they do have good, strong female characters but the blind spots and inability to address criticism inhibit these very characters sometimes. When Sophie Turner was asked about her rape scene, she tried to brush it off but basically said “We can’t change it now!” in an almost apologetic tone. I guess the actors just have to defend some bullshit at times because it is ultimately fiction and the good outweighs the bad for them.
Sorry about the essay.
PREACH!
amen
I guess what she’s saying is that killing (a child) is worse than having sex with a child, which might be true (“sex with” a child would of corse be called sexual molestation in this day and age, but it doesn’t seem those are words she herself would use in this context). I imagine she must have gotten a bit desensitized from acting out these things, day after day, because that’s a comparison I’d rather not have to think about even. I’m not sure about her logic, though, if she thinks this comparison should reflect what is acceptable to show as entertainment…
I don’t get how the show with rape, incest, child murdering became so popular in the first place. Horrible.
I don’t know.. at this point, complaining about anything on GoT seems a little pointless. A man burns his daughter alive at the stake. Brothers sell their sisters for power. Boys still breastfeeding at 10. Fathers beheaded in front of daughters. Whores, rape, flaying, etc. Why are we clutching the pearls? It’s messed up, sure, but sex with 12 year old boy just seems gentle in comparison..
The question comes down to this: even after all of the excessive shock and violence and indecency, why do WE still show up to watch it?
Thank you. The show constantly pushes the envelope with graphic depictions of every sort of detestable social more. It makes the viewer uncomfortable somehow in almost every episode. There is a new controversy every other week that keeps people talking.
That said, to answer your second question – I like escapist fantasy. I don’t watch the show and judge from the lens of ‘my world’ – I like to get lost in theirs. And that show does an excellent job of making you (me anyway) emotionally invested in the characters, I mean, (spoilers) I screamed and danced around the living room while watching a teenage boy get poisoned to death at his own wedding. But… I hated him SO MUCH. I laughed at Cersei, I cried with Sansa, and I -sobbed- with Jon. My real life is a boring cubicle existence with a side of suburban neighborhood drama. “Did you see the weeds at the Miller’s house? *pearl clutch* They haven’t mowed their lawn in A WEEK.” I like getting lost for an hour every week.
All THAT said – I can totally see why the show is not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people are irrationally emotionally involved in soap operas, and that fanship is a complete mystery to me. Same with the (before everything) Duggars, or Twilight. Different strokes and all.
“All THAT said – I can totally see why the show is not everyone’s cup of tea. Some people are irrationally emotionally involved in soap operas, and that fanship is a complete mystery to me. Same with the (before everything) Duggars, or Twilight. Different strokes and all.”
Exactly.
But – and that goes for everything on TV or cinema: don’t like – DON’T WATCH!
Nobody is forced at gunpoint to turn on the TV and to watch GoT.
I don’t get the fuzz about this, I really don’t.
1.) I read the books years ago – Margary was in fact a teenager, so the age gap isn’t big at all. And I am quite sure, the Margary in the series is NOT meant to be 33 years old like the actress is.
2.) If anynone wants to complain about child-marriage – look at some history books and complain about the REAL thing. Which was quite common back in the days……(And still is in some parts of this world).
3.) So, the actor is 17 years old and felt uncomfortabel doing a sex – scene (I didn’t see it yet, how graphic or intimate is it filmed?) ? Really? At 17, he is nearly an adult (at least in Germany) and I dare to say a lot of boys had real sex at that age. He chose to be an actor – so he better understands that there will be “uncomfortable” scenes.
This whole thing is another one of lots of examples of people being offended because they WANT to be offended.
Keep calm and don’t get your knickers in a twist….
If a 17 year old actress expressed being uncomfortable doing a sex scene with a 30 something actor, would you be telling her to suck it up it’s your job?
Yes, I would. Because IT IS her / his job.
A 17 year old is not a little child.
Calling it a sex scene is a reach. He is totally covered up and there’s nothing very salicious happening. You see her naked back before shd puts a gown on, from recollection. Yes it’s clear what happened but it’s nothing like Danerys and Drogo’s consummation at all.
He didn’t say he was uncomfortable filming it, he said it was uncomfortable to watch because his character is twelve. In fact if I remember correctly he said he enjoyed filming it.
@Masha: Thanks for clearing that. So the guy is not whining about filming that scene. Good.
“After what we’ve done on this show—the rape, the incest, the child murdering — it baffes me that two people in a reasonably good, reasonably affectionate relationship is what gets the wide eyes and the questions.”
LOL what, has she been living under a rock? I mean seriously she would have to be to miss all the commentary about the Cersei/Jaime rape, the Ramsay/Sansa rape and Shireen being burnt to death. She was at comic con when Sophie Turner was asked about the controversy surrounding Sansa’s rape. In contrast I have seen practically nobody talk about the Tommen/Margeary scenes. Anyways what disturbed me about the Tommen/Margeary scenes was that they were played like there was nothing wrong with their relationship, like it wasn’t super messed up that a 12 year old was having sex with a grown woman.
See, now THIS is valid commentary. Well done, Masha.
Seriously. This is the only comparative comment that makes any sense to me at all on this particular story.
I’m just coming in to say, that outfit, though. ON POINT.
Are you joking? She looks like the Riddler!
It is something that could easily have happened in the actual middle ages and descriptive is not prescriptive. Imagine how boring entertainment would be if all we could watch were shows that portrayed perfect people doing the right thing all the time. (I have never seen an episode of GOT or read the books.)
What did Dormer do to make everyone so determined to twist what she says into these horrible things? It was completely benign. Of the horrid things they’ve depicted on that show, the concept of a boy king consummating his marriage with a grown princess in a non-violent way is hardly the most shocking. In the world they’ve created, brothers rape and marry sisters. People hand over noblewomen to men who rape and beat them, make them fight in bear pits, or force them to walk naked down a street while people throw food and feces at them. They chop off heads and other body parts with a swiftness in that show. The evil and depravity in this fantasy medieval universe is endless, so the Margaery/Tommen relationship is, like she said, and odd one for people to take issue with.
So…I see her point. That’s all she said.
Clearly, Miss Dormer did something to deserve a side eye at one point, and everything she says in public from now on will be twisted into more side-eye or an accusation that she sees nothing wrong with child molestation. Serious eyeroll. Had to reach really hard to make this one offensive. The photo selection to make her look really arrogant and self-involved was unnecessary, too. It’s like when an actress historically well-liked by the majority here has a kid and gets a little too excited about it when she answers direct questions about how happy it made her or how it changed her life in her post-birth interviews. It’s all over after that. All good will gone.
I’ve never seen an interview given by this woman when she came off as anything other than relaxed and down-to-earth and grateful to be working.
I’m such a wimp I haven’t even tried to watch the show or read the books. I think they would stress me out (dramas of any sort can do that for me nowadays, I had to stop watching later incarnations of Star Trek even) and I have enough real-life stress, so I’ll have to stick to G-rated cartoons and not too awful anime. But the series really sounds so interesting that, as I often do in such cases, I’ve read very detailed synopses and spoiler-ridden descriptions and reviews, and even those are the stuff of nightmares! But I’m not at all surprised by the popularity of the series among less wimpy people. It really seems much more engaging than typical TV shows. So much is going on with so many characters. Almost like Pokemon for adults.
I’m focusing on Natalie comparing herself to Kate Winslet (oscar winner) and Helena Bonham Carter (long and varied career) – overreaching much? You’re not in their league darling so take a seat, will ya.
I get what she’s saying, even if I’m a bit leery about her wording. If we’re going to routinely consume media that hypersexualizes young women and fetishizes violence, then getting outraged about the sexual assault of a young boy in a context where it would be considered “acceptable” is a bit hypocritical. This being said, Chapman’s concerns are perfectly legitimate. The dynamic IS disturbing viewed through a modern lens, even if it fits within the context of the period it’s emulating.
GoT , and specifically Martin , is twistested. I don’t watch the show, but I tried reading the books. And he just sucks you in with his sickness. It is a step by step descent into the twisted world of his. You feel like it is a bit too much at each step, but you keep on reading.
In my case I think at chapter 7 or so I reached the point that I was just horrified by what he was writing.
I do ‘t care that this stuff or something like it happened in Middle Ages, I don’t need it in my brain and I certainly don’t see it as entertainment.
And that is the point, isn’t it, the issue people are having is that horror and suffering are used for entertainment.
I find it silly arguing over the finer points of what is too much and what is OK, the whole series are too much.
If the characters are closer in age than the actor and her, that makes her answer even more stupid. By the way, she seems like someone who says stupid things, even without saying them already.
I have to admit I got confused by her answer in the sense that she didn’t point out that the characters on the show are actually close in age (I think? based on what I’ve read in the comments here?). Why didn’t she just point out that the two characters are not based on the real life actors ages? She made it seem as if what everyone was criticizing might actually be true (i.e. a 33 year old being with a 12 year old ?).
I also didn’t understand why she was only criticizing Americans for seeing her in a corset. I assume people of all nationalities have critiqued her and her show.
She thinks herself 15.
She made it sound like it was ONLY Americans that feel this way…didn’t know that they were so progressive on the other side.
And by progressive( these days unofficial definition )means: self censorship to open communication and conversation. Do go ahead and be O-so-progressive! Lol =]
Why are people still defending this crappy show??