I didn’t watch the last two episodes of I Am Cait, mostly because Caitlyn Jenner is actually the most boring person on that show. I understand that the show is groundbreaking because it actually shows part of one person’s emotional, intellectual and physical transition, but at the end of the day, Caitlyn Jenner really hasn’t learned all that much. She’s still in an enormously privileged position and what bothers me is that even when she’s called out on her privilege, she doesn’t really do much about it.
So several days ago, Caitlyn appeared on the Ellen DeGeneres Show. The conversation came around to gay marriage, and guess what? Caitlyn is still a conservative Republican. This is what Cait told Ellen: “I’m a traditionalist. I’m older than most people in the audience. I kind of like tradition, and it’s always been a man and a woman. I’m thinking, ‘I don’t quite get it.’ But, I think, like a lot of people on this issue, I have really changed my thinking here to, ‘I don’t ever want to stand in front of anybody’s happiness.’ That’s not my job, okay? If that word – ‘marriage’ – is really, really that important to you, I can go with it.” Here’s the video:
I think Cait’s tone makes it better, because just reading what she said, she did come across as somewhat judgy, like “You gay people just want to call it ‘marriage,’ how cute.” Anyway, Ellen appeared on Howard Stern’s show and they chatted about that moment. Ellen was and is still bewildered about Caitlyn’s position, saying: “She still has a judgment about gay marriage. I said, ‘You’re wanting people to understand and accept you, this is like really confusing to people. And you want us to understand, and that you still have a judgment about gay people and marriage.’ And she goes, ‘Well, she said if the word ‘marriage’ is that important … and I was like, ‘It is, because that’s the word.’ Like, we want the same thing.”
I think it’s fair for Ellen to discuss this and call out Caitlyn specifically. While Caitlyn isn’t as bad as, say, Kim Davis, I’d be willing to bet that Caitlyn believes that Kim Davis should have the right to her “religious views” as well. And that’s the problem – Caitlyn’s lack of critical thinking, her inability to expand her worldview beyond her own narrow privilege. If it’s okay for elected officials to pick and choose which laws and regulations to enforce according to their religion, what will Caitlyn say when transgender people are affected by those “traditions” and “religious freedoms”?
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.
A person with three failed marriages really is in no position to define marriage for others.
She is also a terrible parent so total fail on the traditional family values, Cait.
Cait is not the first transgender person and she’s certainly not the best role model or face of the transgender community.
I hate how she’s been elevated by the media to that role. It’s phony and who says the media gets to decide?
Good for Ellen!
She is a terrible parent who kept on having children. She wasn’t a good parent to the first two or the second two, and then Kris has two more? The oldest four seemed to at least have strong, caring mothers.
Caitlyn would gladly accept limitations on the freedoms of “others,” including transgender people, because the rules have not and never will apply to her. That is the consequence of wealth (and, sorry to be blunt, whiteness)–for far too many it comes with a heaping dose of hypocrisy.
Hear, hear.
I concur. I am so disappointed in Caitlyn. She is co clueless about real people and their struggles. I thought that she jumped way too quick into a reality show and should have taken some time to get to know her new trans and larger extent gay community and their struggles. She can call on the GLAAD to help her with dealing with the media but wont support GLAAD on other issue like gay marriage burns me up to no end. Caitlyn is just as vapid as the rest of the Kardashians.
+10000000
Yep.
I’m confused…didn’t she say that she’s still attracted to women? Would that mean that she has no intention of ever marrying another woman again? Or does it mean that as a trans woman, she would only consider getting married if she fell in love with a man?
Bleh. Sorry but I still don’t understand how you can be trans and against gay marriage. She’s always struck me as such a selfish person so I guess that explains the sudden turnaround.
@Pinky-Exactly about it being a consequence of wealth. She has the luxury to overlook the fact that for some people, marriage is (on a basic level) an essential financial arrangement.
Yes, her stance made me curious about who she will date now. Is she ok with gays dating but not marrying? Is she going to still date women or men? This seems mighty hypocritical of her. Accept me but I won’t accept you (although it was worded “not so bad”).
Caits fundamental problem is she is incapable of empathy. But to add to that she is also either very confused about her own sexuality or very shady about it. In the last show I watched, she intimated that she would be down to getting with dudes. In another scene she says thata man who treats her like a woman would be very attractive to her. But then she’s also busy creating a showmance with the trans actress on the show (I haven’t seen a more hamfisted romance storyline in a long time. Then remember how dodgy she was about the gay question on the Katie Couric interview? She seemed to be claiming heterosexuality both as Bruce and Caitlin. Perhaps she’s bi but its weird that she fails to see that her sexuality is far from “traditional”.
I’m so glad to read that everyone REMEMBERS and sees who this person really is. While there have been lots of elevated words to describe Bruce and then Caitlyn, I chose the following: judgmental, hypocritical, shallow, selfish, narrow-minded, and the list goes on …
She made a choice and had the means and platform to go through with it and I uphold her absolute right to live her life to the fullest. However I reserve the words “brave” and “hero” for those who really deserve it.
To sum it up, horrible before, horrible after. She only seemed marginally better as Bruce because Kris was inches away and everyone seems better in comparison.
I get the impression she’s not very bright.
YES YES YES TO THIS.
Well I know plenty of openly gay men who are also against same sex marriage.I just had a fight with one of them a couple weeks ago.He is also against gay men being parents.I blame it on internalized homophobia.
+1.
@Lilacflowers you’re right.
Just because now she’s in a minority group, doesn’t mean she can’t do no wrong. All of sudden she’s just this perfect person bla bla…..if someone disagrees with her, automatically you’re homophobic. It’ annoying.
I’ve had a bad taste in my mouth regarding Caitlyn Jenner for some time now. I haven’t seen her show, as it’s probably on pay TV, which I refuse to subscribe to. But I’ve been reading a lot of articles and interviews, even though she’s not a big thing in my country. I don’t know…something was just bugging me, because I wanted to celebrate and embrace everything she was sayng, doing and going through.
It’s everything everyone on here is saying – the white privilege, the wealth, entitlement, fame. I realise she has her own row to hoe, and at her age, it’d be hard to change your views, but I feel that if she is everchallenged on those views and has no valid conviction, her only response would be, “Oh, well then, whatever…” As for her continued deliberate lack of parenting and guidance, to her youngest in particular, yeah…she’s lost me. On yer way, luv.
At Lilac, I really thought you were referring to Kim Davis but realized you were referring to Bruce. Ugh. I swear the judgiest people have the most skeletons in their closet – (Duggar, etc). I can’t.
Sorry to state the obvious, but Cait is as shallow and dumb as Bruce was.
lol
she can’t even see that she is causing pain and discomfort for her family and ex wife.
Like she cared about anything other than herself.
She just wears better make up now
She will support gay marriage when it benefits her. She is an opportunist.
Make-up on an asshole doesn’t fix asshole. Caitlyn, please don’t blow this chance by being shitty.
Caitlyn is shallow and dumb as all the Kardashians and Bruce was a shitty father to all his kids, so what did we expect from her? Wisdom?
Caitlyn has always been self centered and narcissistic. Check how she treated/still treat her kids for reference. It’s society(who badly needed a hero) who made her out to be this sainted being with a halo around her head. Caitlyn is just being Caitlyn, nothing to see here.
well, I pondered what to say on this thread- turns out I needn’t of worried, you said everything perfectly.
Agreed to all. I never liked Bruce. He was a shitty husband, father, and always came off as vapid and narcissistic as all things Kardashian. Physical appearance and the name were the only thing that changed.
The only person CJ cares about is CJ and making the money. I have a feeling in a few years she will returns as a man. The lady is cold hearted. CJ accident killed a woman and she showed no emotions, walking around the accident scene as if inspecting another persons accident.
Unless you live with CJ you have know idea what she feels about the accident.
@Neah— Well Bruce DID blame the victim for suddenly braking (lie) just like his family blamed the paps (lie). So that shows a basic lack of responsibility and lack of empathy.
@Neah
that’s true. we can, however, postulate that because she did not make any changes (seen a few weeks later talking on her cell while driving, posing in a red sports car for her “debut”) that the incident did not make a deep impact, the kind needed to actually feel remorse for actions.
Neah, if you read Caitlyn’s comments about the accident they’re all about how bad the situation makes HER feel, and how difficult it is for HER – I would be totally freaking out about how I had ended someone else’s life- KILLED someone – and how distraught that person’s family and friends must feel !!!! It is utterly callous to discuss it in the terms she has used. I mean, fair enough if there are legal constraints…but couldn’t you just say ‘no comment’ and look sorry?!!!
Are we really surprised because she has conservative views towards definition of marriage? I have watched Ellen spoke about on Howard Stern .Also, It was very interesting how Ellen said she felt Caitlyn was treating her during her interview.
@Neah, you are calling me out for not knowing CJ and making my observation. The video I have watched at the accident scene showed CJ walking around the accident without, IMO, showing any emotions. Btw, do you know CJ? If not, your comment is no more valid than mine.
Caitlyn spent over 60 years of her life as Bruce. And during that time was very conservative and spoke openly about these issues and supported those stances. I’m not surprised by this at all. Mainly because transcending to Caitlyn didn’t erase what the life before was nor the beliefs. Caitlyn has made several confusing statements about a lot of things.
Maybe this is a time of growth, but I don’t see a great enlightenment happening any time soon. I just find it very interesting considering the family Caitlyn is a part of how those views of being so “conservative” were able to be so grounded.
Bruce was a white rich conservative man, Caitlin is a white rich conservative woman.
Is there any surprise here?
Bruce was a douchebag, just because his sex changed doesn’t mean his personality and mind changed. Caitlyn is still a douchebag. Bruce was married to PMK was anybody expecting any depth from Bruce/Caitlyn?
Caitlyn has always been conservative in her political leanings and views. I just find it laughable that she has this view on gay marriage, when she has been married Three Times!
As for the show ” I am Cait”, the other trans women are much more interesting. I would be more inclined to hear more about their lives
I feel the same way. Watching Caitlyn is akin to watching paint dry. The other women, however, are the only reason I’ve watched the few episodes that I have.
“when she has been married Three Times!”
Yes, and more importantly, divorced three times. It isn’t as if she was widowed along the way or anything. This is a person who failed at marriage repeatedly.
Exactly. You know what I don’t understand? Why “traditionalist” marriage views can’t just mean that you take those vows seriously – whether heterosexual or same sex marriage. I mean, I’m not against divorce at all; it’s just people that are married 3 or 4 or more times, I wonder how seriously those vows were taken, you know?
I do understand that in Caitlyn’s case, her gender identity was an issue in the disintegration of her marriages, but … those like Kim Davis? Talk about cognitive dissonance.
When Caitlyn started her show, she attended LGBT events-and used them for her show, right? But has trouble with the idea that the others at that event should have equal marriage rights. Hmm.
Generally I think believe whatever you want, just don’t stand in the way of the rights of others, but if a person expects support from a community, they should probably support them as well.
She didn’t say she would block same-sex marriages. She just said that she didn’t understand the need to call it marriage. She’s had three marriages of the man-woman type, and that’s all she knows. She probably hasn’t thought through the advantages of marriage beyond what she herself has experienced. The marriage license is actually a shortcut to a lot of legal protections and responsibilities, such as next-of-kin standing (a major problem for partners when the family of the one incapacitated takes over and pushes the other partner aside), community property, etc. as well as custodial rights for any children, adopted or otherwise and insurance coverage for spouses. Theoretically, you could put together a legal package that would cover the same ground, but we already have a package called “marriage” that works regardless of the sex of the partners. People shouldn’t have to hire a lawyer to get married, and extending the eligibility for the marriage license makes a lot of sense. Making it easier also promotes long-term commitments.
Great points and well stated.
Oh I get all that and totally agree, I’m just confused how someone could expect support from a community but not see the people of that community as deserving of true equality. It just strikes me as incredibly selfish, expecting others to be open minded and accepting and supportive, but then not offering the same in return.
Totally agree, Woolman. Marriage is a legal contract that protects both parties. The religious and “romantic” aspects have somewhat clouded the legal protection. Any man or woman who plans on a lifetime with another should have the legal rights bestowed by the marriage contract. Gay or straight, anyone who doesn’t want to make it legal should be viewed with suspicion. The John Hamm/Jennifer split recently after 18 years highlights 18 years of a vital, intelligent and creative woman wasting her time. I have been married and divorced twice. I would never consider cohabiting with a partner without marriage rights and protections.
Do Angie and Bruce Jenner share a plastic surgeon coz girl Bruce looks so much like Ms Jolie circa Alexander. I hope Girl Bruce eats well and maintain her looks unlike AJ
She’s not Bruce anymore, and that’s incredibly rude for you to speak that way. I think you’re aware of that,though.
Separately, does anyone remember a good source for appropriate guide to pronoun usage for people in transition/”new” people? Going with what they prefer is number one, obviously, but I seem to remember when Caitlyn announced her switch that there were guides about correct usage, I just don’t know where.
Hey Betsy. This guide may be useful to you. Personally, I don’t like the tone of the writer, who is rather unkind to the people she supposedly wants as allies, but some of the information is good. https://medium.com/matter/real-talk-with-trans-people-57b9aa3b91a8
Check out the word ‘deadnaming’ on the Urban Dictionary. Deadnaming is when you call a trans person by a name they no longer use, and you’ve just done it. It’s no longer acceptable, just like ‘sex change’ or ‘gender reassignment’ is no longer acceptable. The correct term is gender confirmation.
Some people is so fascinated by Angelina Jolie Pitt that they have to find away to mention her name when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with her.
CJ is horrible as a parent and person
Sidenote: Some people are obsessed with certain celebs that they feel the to bring them up all the time regardless of the topic….Creepy.
Better luck next time and please try to come up with something better.
That’s the most asinine thing I’ve heard in a long time. Go away.
Says the transgendered person. This makes no sense. How can Caitlyn be an openly transgendered person and yet still be a conservative who disagrees with gay marriage? Don’t most conservatives and religious folk disagree with transgendered people just as much as they disagree with gay marriage?
It sound weird but why not? We’re talking separate issues anyway. It’s like a feminist person was against abortion. It’s not the most common thing, but it’s not incompatible.
I think it’s somewhat incompatible. She’s reviled by the extreme right for the exact same reasons as gays and gay marriage, but she had to work through those issues to come to terms with who she is. It is surprising and disappointing to me that she would cling to the very transparent “tradition” excuse for opposing gay marriage, which can be roughly translated as “oooh, gay cooties…this makes me gag…” It seems incredibly shallow for a person who has asked people to accept an unconventional “non traditional” situation for herself to be so dense when it comes to others.
Their are openly gay people who disagrees with gay marriage.
There, not their. Duh
Ask the Log Cabin Republicans,a gay Republican group?
An apt equivalence for her then would be to oppose marriage for transgendered people. Leave the weird comments about gay marriage for the log cabin republicans.
As a society, we’ve had way more time to think about and accept that sexuality is a spectrum and that people should be allowed to legally marry irrespective of gender.
She wants acceptance but can’t wrap her head around gay marriage? Get a bigger head.
Now the penny dropped! Caitlyn is nothing but the self absorb and fame hungry man-now-woman, just a waste of space.
I don’t think what she said is that bad? She’s old, so I can understand why the idea of straigh marriage is so rigid in her system. She said she didn’t want to get in the way of anyone’s happiness and if calling it marriage is that important (as a bi woman who has been in homosexual relationships, I frankly don’t care what it’s called), then go with it. Doesn’t sound judgy to me.
I see the attitude I’d like to see in conservative people. I don’t want you to “get” homosexuality, I don’t want you to like homosexuals; heck, I don’t even want you to accept us. I just want you to leave us alone and let us be.
Please insert “old” for anything referring “homosexuality” into your last paragraph and see how that sounds to those who are near Cait’s age. No. Judging. Period,
I fail to see the point you’re trying to make here.
I don’t like Christians. I don’t respect their beleifs. I mock the Bible regularly (in private). I seriously can’t understand how in this day and age peope believe that crap. So I just feel very hypocritical being like this and then going all “hey! you have to accept gay people! don’t be mean to us!” Dont like gay marriage or gay people? Totally fine with me, I dont like you either. But don’t get in the way of our rights.
Age really is irrelevant. My great aunt is 86 years old. When marriage equality was legalized by court ruling in Massachusetts, she called our neighbors, two gay men who had been living together for 30 years, and told them to hurry up and get married because she wanted to go to a fun wedding.
Eh, so? I still don’t see what’s so wrong about what she said. She’s not saying gay people shouldn’t get married, she just doesn’t understand the need to call it that. And as someone who has been in homosexual relationships – I don’t get it either.
You know one old woman who is very accepting about gay marriage. Great. I know a handful as well. But most old people I know aren’t like that and I can understand why.
Totally agree. You’re a bigot or you’re not. My parents are 88 and 90 and they are fine with gay marriage. I get what you are saying, Josefa, in that you don’t need acceptance or approval, but you also say you don’t care whether or not it’s called marriage, and that isn’t true for everyone. It IS marriage – calling it something else is like “separate but equal,” which really means “less than.”
@GNAT
True, and I can respect it if the word is important to you. The point Im trying to make is not wanting that union to be called marriage and flat out opposing any kind of civil union between gay people are different things. Calling Caitlyn a bigot or comparing her to that Kim Davis woman is very unfair, imo.
What I got from her speech was “I’m a traditional person and I believe marriage should be between straight people, but if two people of the same sex want to get married, I’m not one to get in the way of their happiness”. And I’m alright with that.
Yes, I think the emphasis has to be on rights and protections, the Bill of Rights in the U.S. Constitution was actually designed to protect the minority from the majority. People don’t have to like each other or approve of each other’s behavior to respect their rights. It’s understandable that people want more than that, that they want to be fully accepted. But just being out in the open does gradually change minds, although it’s a slow process.
Years ago, I read an interview with a Mennonite pastor who was asked how he felt about homosexual relationships. He said it was sinful, but really just a little sin… In other words, no big deal to him, just like all the little sins people commit over the course of a day. Nothing that would keep him from having friends or members of his congregation in such relationships. That seems like a reasonable transitional stage for people who feel that same-sex relationships don’t fit their God’s plan. I’ve talked with another pastor on occasion who has the usual prejudices in such matters, and he brought up the case of a man who had been in an abusive relationship with an older man when he was still a young man himself, as though that were an indictment of all same-sex relationships. I told him that the problem was not the sex of the partners, but the abuse. Abusive and exploitative relationships are wrong, regardless of the sex of the partners. That’s where sin comes into play and that’s where a pastor needs to focus. Plenty of sin in different-sex relationships to keep him busy.
Another man was speaking against same-sex relationships because in Cuba (many decades ago) he had observed young boys used as prostitutes for men. I asked him if he wanted his relationship with his wife to be judged sinful because young girls are used as prostitutes for men. If not, then why judge all same-sex relationships by child prostitution? I don’t think he ever actually knew anybody in a healthy same-sex relationship, so he only thought in terms of what he had actually observed and he knew that was wrong.
Anyway, there are ways to talk about such things with people, starting from where they are now and accepting the natural slowness of changes in attitude. Insisting on a greater agenda all at once is likely to be counterproductive.
I was judged for being fat by my cousin that lived all her life with a hearing disability and suffered the judgement and the consequences herself.
I understand from this article that a transgender person doesn’t understand gay marriage.
THIS is primitive, unfiltered judgy human nature. The problem is that after all this time people aren’t supposed to be primitive, they are supposed to be evolved and civil.
And the word ‘traditionalist’ is perverted when used in this form by Cait Jenner and other conservatives like her.
Good for Ellen to call her out!
She’s not being judgy. She just doesn’t understand why it’s important to call same-sex relationships a marriage and why being able to get a marriage license is important. She was quite isolated until she began her final transition since she was in the closet, she just hasn’t heard from people in the situation about why it’s important to them. She is not trying to stop people from doing anything and clearly said that if it really is important to them, go for it. She’s already been married three times and isn’t in any hurry for another marriage herself, so it’s a moot point for her personally.
I realize that this will sound completely insensitive and unaware…
But Bruce Jenner wanted to be able to openly identify as female. And even though he didn’t plan to make a full physical transition, he still wanted to identify as Caitlyn. She is now Caitlyn Jenner. She has no interest in dating men, and very much wanted to continue her relationship/marriage to Kris Jenner. Does this mean that slapping the trans label on it takes away any other sexual orientation label? She would have technically been a woman married to a woman. The only difference between her and the people she doesn’t “understand” is the privilege of not having to fight the battle of gay marriage because she made her transition after the fact.
Anyone with insight or opinion please enlighten me.
The problem I see here is that because she transitioned people made her out to be some type of hero and maybe to someone like Ellen this is a little dissapointing but at the end of the day she only cares about herself and her struggle and that is who she is and was.
I haven’t heard Cait refer to herself as a hero or an expert on such things. She knows that her prior fame gives her a platform to let other people speak and show her personal journey to help foster understanding of the process, and she’s been doing that. Otherwise, she only knows her own situation and hasn’t claimed anything beyond that. If other people want to put her on a non-existent pedestal, that’s not her problem. Ellen is not stupid – she used the opportunity to talk about that issue. If Cait had just said she supported it, very little else could have been said. The fact that she admitted she doesn’t understand the reason it’s necessary allowed for more discussion by Ellen. That’s a good thing.
I’m just so glad Ellen is openly speaking this way about it. I like Ellen. I thought recently she was getting a little too kiss-ass so hearing her criticize a Kardashian is awesome.
Yep. I was done withe her when I saw that. Vapid…..
I’ve watched her show and I don’t think she is the pioneer people thought she would be — this is a rather superficial person concerned with the superficial aspects of being a woman rather going deep into real issues.
This!
Caitlyn doesn’t understand that there is going to be an order to acceptance for alternative lifestyles, and if gay marriage is not accepted first, no one is going to accept transgender people or their marriages. I doubt that her show is meant to foster acceptance. It’s a star vehicle for her. It now makes perfect sense that she married into the K clan, where everyone but everyone is an attention whore.
That is not true ,post op trans woman have being getting married for years.I think the problem is people lump transgender with gays and lesbians.Unless a Trans woman is lesbian she has nothing to do with the gay community.Most gay people don’t want to be linked with the trans community.If you go to any gay site you will see the transphobia is almost a pervasive as on a straight site.
So with Caitlyn is it just the word woman or is she truly a “woman?”
I mean if she wants the world to be understanding and supportive of what she is going through (and they should) then she needs to get off her judgey high horse. Sorry she is a bitch and I just feel bad for the transgender community because she has become their “face” and it’s an incredibly negative light.
i find it good actually. not because of the opinion but because people are not streamlined and i enjoyed her outlook more than a PR answer that does not reflect her true feelings on the matter. coming out as transgender and transitioning dont erase decades of life before that.
is it a double standard? of course, thats why its more interesting why she has that double standard.
I am so glad Ellen called her out, and that she said it the way she did- that’s the word for the thing we want, the same as everyone else. The fact is that trying to prevent same sex marriage comes down to still trying to keep same sex couples as having lesser rights. It’s a very slippery slope when we start agreeing to limit people’s rights based on their gender identity and sexual preference, but Caitlin is also privileged enough to not really understand the hardships that most transgender individuals face. It’s great that her family and friends are supportive, but when we have transgender individuals getting beaten and killed all across the country, it makes me sigh that this is the version that people are getting to see of someone transitioning, as it makes it look much easier than it is for most people.
As for being traditional and from a different generation, I’d remind Caitlin how that generation would have treated someone like her if they tried to live as she does- some traditions are better left behind.
Thank God it was Ellen. Can you imagine if anyone else called out Caitlyn for anything.? Unfortunately, we are in a situation where nothing other than the politically correct stance is allowed. Caitlyn was a horrible father to the children of her first two marriages. She was disrespectful to Kris by suggesting that their marriage would be intact if Kris has been more understanding of her transitioning. In the real world, women get pretty upset when their husband admits to living a lie for their entire life and suddenly decides to be “their true self”. She further compounds this by slamming Kris in the Vanity Fair article. I am in agreement with some of the other comments in this thread. Caitlyn appears more transvestite than transgender. I have a feeling that we are going to see an attempt to revert back in the near future. Any truly transgender person would support gay marriage. Transvestites, on the other hand, are simply men who get turned on by wearing women’s clothing, especially lingerie.
I don’t really see the problem? She said she doesn’t understand it personally but understands it’s important to other people and that she isn’t against it.
Which, btw, is very similar to the way Ellen was talking about trans issues during the interview. She doesn’t understand, but she’s ok with it.
I think Caitlyn expressed herself well. I wish more people, conservative AND liberal would take the approach of ‘I don’t get it…but I don’t have to, carry on’.
I think there’s a difference between not understanding how a person could feel trapped in the wrong body and not understanding why someone would want to marry someone of the same gender.
The former is a fairly unique and complex issue, whereas the latter is pretty cut-and-dry: people often want to make their love *official* by getting married, and that’s to say nothing of all the benefits that married people are entitled to.
Otherwise, I agree with you as far as people being able to disagree with something personally while not using that as a way to deny others their rights.
I chalk it up to the fact that to be a Republican today, you have to engage in cognitive dissonance and disconnect.
There are equal amounts of Democrats / Liberals who suffer from the same thing. Watching here from somewhere in the middle, both extremes look like intolerant whackos to me.
I kind of get it. You don’t have to agree with someone to support it. I *think* what she meant was that she’s a traditionalist when it comes to marriage, but what she thinks doesn’t matter and people can do what they want. At the same time, for someone who is working so hard to create awareness and support for a different cause, you’d think she’d be more accepting of other things as well. At least publicly.
The Problem with Caitlyn is one of Selfishness… she wants understanding and compassion for HER not for anyone else on her position, this probably comes from a life presenting as the type of person that everything gets handed to just so and not connecting with people in her experience til now, is sorta like if you dropped Trump in a Place where he was a minority, with nothing Gold plated, TODAY in 2015, he has nowhere to draw compassion and understanding and nuance from
To add to your comments, Caitlyn’s position is at complete odds with the experience of 99% of transgender people. On top of this, the media gave her an easy ride, despite the fact that Bruce Jenner is actually an unlikeable person. Anyone who questioned the transition in any way was howled down, Transitioning does not take away the fact that you were a terrible father and killed someone in an automobile accident. It does not give you free reign to criticize your wife (Kris) and accuse her of not being understanding enough. In the real world where most transgender people live, relatives will completely disown you and call you”sick”. You will be faced the most terrible discrimination. Many suicide. Caitlyn Jenner is not making a single bit of difference to transgender people. It is only the media saying that!
It didn’t take long for her to show her true colors.
To quote Stephen Colbert speaking to Jeb Bush “Aww you almost got them to clap for you.”
This woman had a lot of undeserved and unearned good will given to her because she was supposed to be the public face of transitioning and etc. and as much as her fans defended and said she would make good on it she didn’t.
It isn’t enough to say “Gee, well does it have to be called gay marriage?” You have more money than a majority of the population, you have all the free time from NOT raising children, why don’t you spend 20 minutes less in getting TV ready sit down and THINK.
This whole family is an empty well when it comes to thinking. If it’s not trendy or fed to them it’s always “I don’t know” said with a giggly air implying they’ll never attempt to learn and their ignorance is a coy shield.
Caitlyn if you want the respect you feel you deserve as a transitioned woman then merely saying “I’m a traditionalist” is not acceptable. You’re not a traditionalist, you’re a lazy and hypocritical conservative. By the books and to the rules for everyone else BUT YOU.
ETA: I can see why the first two marriages broke up now.
I see this no different than white gay people who tolerate racism or black people who tolerate homophobia.Just because you are a member of a discriminated group doesn’t make you more compassionate or accepting.
That’s true. But it doesn’t make it ok, either, which I’m sure you know already.
I watched the BBC hard talk a few months ago they had a former successful boxing promoter ( frank something) who had transitioned as a woman, I was far more impressed with that person said and how they carried themselves, then I have been with Jenner.
Frank Maloney, now Kellie Maloney. Boy, did that throw the English boxing world for a loop!
Trans people have their own politics and opinions too. Why is it such a shock?
After observing Caitlyn for a few months now, I’m beginning to wonder if she’s not actually a transvestite, a straight male who gets turned on observing himself as a woman, It’s all about arousal. He’s his own enraptured embrace. Others need not apply, no relationships needed.
Well the crossdressers I personally know don’t have breast implants.I personally have never heard of a CD undergoing surgery but maybe you do.
I’ve known more than a few of both over the years and Caitlyn seems particularly confused. A lot of mixed signals here. Maybe she’s just sorting it out? Most lgbt people in my life were already past coming out by the time we met, so maybe I’ve just not seen that process. OTOH even my trans nephew has been consistent about his identity, and he’s under 16. Whatever the story is with Caitlyn I still support her though.
Cross dressers don’t get surgery to make them look like women. Caitlyn had the larynx shaving ,she has breast implants. Cross dressers wear women’s clothes ,wear makeup ,wear a wig. That’s where it stops. They don’t do those extra things to look like a woman.
… but they might if they had unlimited financial resources and some sort of deeper psychological issue.
I personally think Caitlyn is legitimately trans, but just playing Devil’s Advocate.
And they might if their day to day life was full of people who consider surgery to alter one’s appearance on par with a tailor altering one’s clothes.
It all happened so fast. Caitlyn basically hit the ground running. My mind can’t help but wander to the idea that the huge circus-y feel to it all is somehow, in some way, related to the potential vehicular manslaughter charge. That was in the news, then it got replaced by Caitlyn Jenner.
My VERY progressive – I mean, EXTREMELY LIBERAL, would probably be called an “SJW” – friend who’s going for her PhD in psychology thinks that she’s not genuinely transgendered and something else is going on.
I disagree with my friend, but take that for what you will.
I loathe this person…man, woman, whatever.
Well she does not have to fight for every cause she was honest.I think the judgemental people are those who think she has to see things like them.I am not a transgender if others feel good about it then so be it that is her whole point.
I don’t know, I think maybe having her as a public Republican (what a great punk band name) isn’t a bad thing. There are lots of Libertarian types who have no voice and no public figures who represent them. A trans conservative is a good thing no matter how you spin it. If nothing else, it keeps the psycho Glenn Beck and Mike Huckabee types on their toes.
I watch the show because the fascinating thing is how a conservative rich white cys male changes into a lesbian trans woman and how that changes her perspective, I tune in to see a privilege person not knowingly becoming a minority, and the effect it has on this person’s life and political views.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day it’s still a pig…and I’m not referring to the transgender issue here, I’m referring to the fact that Caitlyn is appearing to be as big a jerk and as self-absorbed as Bruce, maybe worse. I wish she’d go away for a year or so and try again.
Sorry, but I still think there is publicity stunt all over this.
As for gay people who are against gay marriage, I’ll never understand that position. It is such a huge disconnect, I can’t comprehend.
I think shallow and dumb best describes Caitlyn.
I don’t see her as a transgender person like the woman she hangs with on her show. I think it’s almost insulting to them to have this wealthy person who was a man for 65 years, make her declaration public, get accolades for her bravery, while it was they who truly without the privilege Caitlyn has, went through this journey, most of them decades ago without a reality tv show camera following them around. What I see is Bruce Jenner with new plastic surgery, an inordinate amount of makeup and expensive clothes (he says from Donatella) waltzing around wondering why her male friends feel uncomfortable……and btw Cait, please drop that okay you put at the end of just about every sentence you make. Lastly, how dare she judge who is to be married. This person was just honored at some Gay Pride event and he was whooping it up only now to say marriage is a man and woman traditionally. Not just a hypocrite, an ignorant hypocrite.
Setting the topic of Caitlyn aside for a moment…..
Ellen Degeneres is a horrific b*tch in real life. My company has had to work in her apartment in Los Angeles for weeks on end and she is awful. She is awful to her help, awful to workers, very aggressive and just f*cking mean.
I don’t really care about the whole Caitlyn thing and her opinion of same sex marriage. I think people can have opinions and then evolve and its up to them I don’t want to be preachy and self righteous. But I just wanted to throw that Ellen news out there, shes a great actress because she is a f*cking beast in person.
I think observant people already know that Ellen is a DL snarky ass. If you watch her show the “Ellen” persona slips a bit and she just looks fake as fuck. That’s show business!
Poor old girl. She always looks like she just smelled bad cheese. It could be Portia though.
I agree kimber, she often makes quite snarky comments to fans on her show. She does seem mean to me but just sucks up to celebrities. She also talks condescendingly to non-famous guests on the show I have noticed
Trans people want equal rights? Then let’s acknowledge this one’s an asshole and stop kissing Jenner’s ass. Jenner wants his own issues embraced, but doesn’t give a damn that other people might feel equally strongly about their own causes.
He’s a narcissist who abandoned his children. That kind of fundamental personality flaw never changes. If you don’t believe me, look up narcissistic personality disorder.
Caitlyn was a bitch when she was bruce and THAT’S why I never watch her show. I dont support shitty parents who whore out their kids and make their kids believe that it’s “normal”
If Caitlyn would just shut the hell up for one second, and stop and take inventory of her life, her children, her failed marriages, maybe, just maybe she could earn some respect by saying, “hey, I f’ed up, I wasn’t there for my kids and wives because I had all this confusing crap going on in my head and I wasn’t sure what do do/where to go with it!” Now that she’s finally come to terms with it and can be herself, she could go forward and try to do something productive with it, or salvage some sort of meaningful relationship with children who NEED HER, other than shopping and talking about hair. But sadly, it looks like it’s just going to be “me, me, me…hey look at me…hey I’m special….kids? what kids? huh?” typical narcissistic BS.
I can’t get pass the man slaughter and the man hands.
I’m sorry, but I do not believe Bruce Jenner is Transgender. He is a confused cross-dresser with, in my opinion, an undiagnosed mental illness and he needs help. Otherwise, he’s a selfish narcissist. Who goes on to marry two more women and have 4 more kids when they know from their first marriage that they are supposedly Transgender? His 18 year old is completely messed up because of this whole thing with no direction whatsoever! She does not want to see her daddy in women’s clothes wearing makeup, no matter how much she says she supports him. I’m sorry but that’s BS and it shows on Kylie in the show. He makes me sick and sad at the same time. A 65 year old man prancing around in makeup and dresses trying to compete with his 3rd ex-wife. My guess is he is trying to re-create the ‘high’ he felt when he had all that attention as an Olympic gold medalist. He hasn’t been able to all these years. I have seen and know Transgender people who actually look it. Bruce looks like a man, walks like a man, has the bone structure of a man and there is nothing Transgender about him. Even the Transgender community aren’t happy that he supposedly represents them! He does not relate to the LGBT community and refers to them as ‘them’, not ‘us’. Ugh I can say so much about this, but this man needs help. And fast.
I don’t believe it either Ari.
On one hand I’m not strongly offended by what she has said because despite her long-held ‘traditional’ beliefs, (Insert puke emoji) she’s not trying to stand in the way of equality and appears to be capable of evolving in her political beliefs. I’ll take someone like this who seems willing to listen, learn, and grow over the disgusting Mike Huckabees, Kim Davises, and vile Michelle Bachmanns of this country any day. But on the other hand, her comments definitely show a self-absorbed, privileged, ignorant, and short-sighted side to her, and show that she still has things to learn. It’s kind of weird hearing this from her, but not really, considering her background.
it shocks me she is a republican who doesn’t believe in gay marriage..
I guess like most people, if it doesn’t affect them, she’ll go with the status quo.
I think it’s great. Her opinion has softened, so she’s getting there. Don’t jump on a person who is in the process of doing a 180. She’s always seemed very vapid and shallow – thus kind of compassion is new.
Also, it shoes that queer people are not a monolith. There are gay conservatives, trans people who aren’t completely comfy with gay marriage…accepting this means really accepting diversity.
Her response on gay marriage did not surprise me. Caitlyn is profoundly shallow, selfish, and devoid of empathy. Her overwhelming and consuming concerns in life are strictly her own wants and needs and self gratification, everyone else’s lives are peripheral at best. I am not surprised she could not empathize with the plight of gays, b/c NO ONE’S plight or struggle for equality and quality of life is of any interest to her, only her own. What really caused me to believe that she is *pathologically* w/out feeling for anyone is the car accident which claimed a human life. She has shown no genuine remorse whatsoever, and certainly no shock, horror, guilt or grief. My close friend, over 15 years ago, was having a full blown psychotic episode (he is severely bipolar) and in his impaired state, he killed someone in a car accident: he is hugely haunted and tormented by that death, and his role in it, to this day. Caitlyn gave a trite little, rehearsed sounding speech about how the death of a woman, which she helped to cause, has effected *her*, and there seemed to be little to no regard or understanding for the grief and anger of the woman’s family. That told me everything I need to know about Caitlyn, right there: in her eyes, she is always center stage. She is in fact so blinded by herself that she cannot even see her own struggle for acceptance as being closely reflected in the need and right that gays have for equal marriage. She does not really identify w or THINK ABOUT the gay community’s struggles at ALL, b/c she does not consider herself gay, so has little interest in them, as they don’t, in her own, shortsighted, narcissistic view, effect her. She’s hopelessly narcissistic: far from caring to be a “voice” of the transgender community, she can speak only of and for herself.
This is nothing to do with this post….. but is anyone feeling more than a bit sorry for Idina Menzel who ‘Caitlin’ Jenner seems to have modelled herself on – the resemblance is uncanny!