Lupita Nyong’o covers the new issues of Elle UK & Essence, but unlike her Rhapsody cover story, this one does not include a story about Ralph Fiennes telling her to shut up. Just know: I am still Team Lupita. Really, I am. I love her. I think she’s lovely and talented. But after reading three magazine cover interviews with her in a 24-hour period, I’m finding her slightly annoying. She complains about fame and media attention consistently, because… she agreed to do three magazine covers in one month just to promote a small CGI part in Star Wars? Thankfully, she says some interesting stuff about race and representation. Some highlights from Essence & Elle UK:
On fame: “I don’t think being conspicuous is a state we’re supposed to live in, or at least not permanently. I wish there was a dial we could turn up and down. And in a sense I can, by making very deliberate choices about what I do and when and how, and with whom.”
On beauty & representation: “If you turn on the television and you are not represented on that television, you become invisible to yourself. And there was very little of myself that I saw on TV, or in the movies that I was watching, or in magazines that were lying around the salons or around the house. And so these are subconscious things. Yes, Western beauty standards are things that affect the entire world. And then what happens? You’re a society that doesn’t value darker skin.”
Spending years of her childhood in Mexico: “People would stop and take pictures of us just because we were black. It was a time during that tricky adolescent phase when you’re coming into yourself and you’re trying to pave your own way but you’re insecure about where you lie. It devastated me.”
Getting the part in Star Wars: “I was on the way to the beach and all of sudden J.J.’s on the phone. I asked to see the script and they flew someone to Morocco with the script so I could read it. I was immediately interested in the character. I like to get lost in the transformation and I felt like this character would offer me that… I can say that she’s strong and has a colorful past and that’s it before they shoot me down.”
[From E! News & The Daily Mail]
The discussion about representation is so important, and I applaud Lupita for consistently talking about it over the years. I do feel that the “representation” discussion is often folded into the discussion about increasing the number of roles for women in film, that magically, if we simply have more female-driven projects, the amount of racial diversity will increase. When really… that’s not the case.
Meanwhile, did you hear this story about Lupita’s CGI role in Star Wars: The Force Awakens? British sources claim that JJ Abrams has significantly cut down Lupita’s role because he was “not impressed” with her work, and he had Lupita’s voice work re-recorded. Sources blame Lupita’s discomfort with the CGI aspect of the work, and they say “There was a general sense that something wasn’t working so a lot of her scenes ended up being either re-worked or cut. Unfortunately she just didn’t end up delivering. It does happen in Hollywood, but not usually with Academy Award winners. Her part in the final film will now be a lot smaller than was initially expected.” Huh. Does this feel funny to anyone else?
Covers courtesy of Elle UK & Essence.
This is just what happens with ingenues though. The world lets you sparkle for a little bit, and then they declare you a fraud and start looking for their next IT.
How do you explain Jennifer Lawrence then? Emma Stone? Rooney Mara? Emma Watson? Shailene Woodley? They were all hailed as “it girls” years ago and they’re still very much in demand.
What do they all have in common?
Not to state the obvious but those are all white women. There is no blueprint for an ingenue of color, because we get them so rarely. Within a few days of Lupita winning the Oscar, there were articles and think pieces about how hard it would be for her to sustain a career, not because people questioned her talent, but because of the color of her skin. That would never happen to any of the women you mentioned. I am happy that she’s out here promoting herself (which is part of her job description). At the end of the day, we are still talking about her, she’s still getting magazine covers (how many women of color do we usually see on the cover of Vogue and Elle), and regardless of how big her role ends up being in the movie, she’s a part of Star Wars, what is surely going to be the biggest movie of the year. I think she was smart to take a stage role which is going to be on Broadway (again, a play featuring women of color, written by a women of color, that in itself is groundbreaking) and trying to develop her own projects (Americanah). I really can’t hate on a women working and promoting herself, especially when she uses her fame to talk about racism, colorism and lack of representation in media.
And how many young white actresses became it and then forgotten? A lot.
And for Shailene Woodley, wasn’t she replace in Spiderman? The only movie where she got fine critics The Fault in Our Stars.
Emma Watson also get mixed critics.
As for Lupita Nyong’o, she was great in 12 Years a Slave, but I never get the buzz around her. And most of the comments I heard about her in forums was for her amazing skin, not her talent as an actress. She need to play in more movies, I don’t know what is the problem. If the problem is Hollywood, maybe she should try indies, anything to get more cred, because now she just have one good movie.
It definitely has something to do with her race.
But also, these actresses metnioned above never had rumors about them being rude to costars or stuck up, etc.
Lol love Dee’s comment.
But I’d also argue that both J Law and Emma Watson came under fire for daring to speak out for gender equality.
I’m with you Naya. Especially true if the ingenue is a black woman. The backlash is in full effect here, and I’m a little scared for her. She’s lovely. Haven’t actually seen her in anything yet (I skipped 12yas and read the book instead) but I’m rooting for her.
@NAYA and @LULU- agree with all of this. I am white so can’t imagine how hard it must be to be in her position. I am Lupita-neutral, having never seen any of her work, but just reading this saddens me.
My friends and I bitch about all of the expensive, time-consuming things that *we* have to do just to feel that we are meeting basic American “beauty” standards, i.e. hair straightening/smoothing treatments and regular blowouts, waxing, manicures & pedicures, – but then I read something like this and it reminds me of how little these are actually problems, and how much slack we are given compared to others. I can’t even think about how hurtful it must be to have people take photos of you as if you are a circus sideshow while you’re just trying to go about your daily life. And seeing less talented white actresses get parts that you know you would never even be considered for.
Not being from America, it was shocking when I found out how much race still mattered. And not just the colour of someone’s skin, but the shade. That’s so insane. I grew up watching Family Matters and Fresh Prince and it gives you a sort of sugar-coated version of America.
I have a question though. I always thought Hollywood values beauty above all else, and Lupita is insanely beautiful. Would she have an easier time if she was white, but not conventionally pretty? Like, if she won an Oscar aged 31 and was white, but looked like Sandra Bernhard?
And what happened to Barkhad Abdi?
> Would she have an easier time if she was white, but not conventionally pretty? Like, if she won an Oscar aged 31 and was white, but looked like Sandra Bernhard?
No. She wouldn’t have made it at all. In Hollywood a female actress MUST be beautiful.
I’m not sure where you’re from but I can guarantee that race matters a lot in whatever country you live in. It’s not just the US. And Abdi is still filming some movies, just smaller roles I believe. He has a movie coming out next year where he plays a larger role in the film.
I’m not saying it wouldn’t matter, but when 99.99 % of people living in that country belong to one race, the impact race has doesn’t really cross your mind.
She said Western not American, western usually includes most of Europe because it’s not a geographical but culture based term.
ETA: I can’t imagine what it’d be like living in a country with one race! I mean it doesn’t matter if I’m at a grocery store or out shopping, I’m going to see white,black,Asian, middle eastern, Hispanic people every time and everywhere. I mean it’s not even something that crosses my mind until you said you live in a country where 99.9% is the same race.
And like it was pointed out above beauty is above race when it comes to fame. An ugly white girl has no chance to be on magazine covers. I know she’s faced discrimination, but she’s on magazine covers because she is beautiful.
I agree that is what CAN happen with ingenues but Lupita’s rise to the top was so different and kind of strange. She had a small – albeit effective – part in 12 Years A Slave. She became a fashion darling and her beauty was discussed over and over. Lawrence had bit parts and then carried an ENTIRE film – Winters Bone – made a few more films, won an Oscar, and then became a major force to be reckoned with. The rest of the ingenues mentioned are nowhere near JLaw’s rise to the top. In fact, they are utterly replaceable.
Lupita’s rise made less sense to me because she had almost nothing else in her resume and won an Oscar for a film that frankly should have won in so many other categories before supporting actress. She then started covering every other magazine and became an “it” girl but there was so little to discuss besides her beauty, fashion, and her ONE role.
+1 to everything you wrote.
It’s always bothered me that all anyone talks about her is her appearance and the fashion she wears. Her acting and other work (if any, I have no idea what she does other that pose for L’Oreal), is never mentioned.
JLaw on the other hand, is always talked about because of her work, rarely because of her appearance.
@atrain Her appearance is brought up a SH-T ton. She wouldn’t be where she is if she wasn’t a pretty girl let’s be honest. Her body, her makeup, her clothes, everyone talks about that with regards to her. I mean she herself said she had to do a sexy photoshoot in order to gain roles in XMen. All these women HAVE to parlay their apperance in their field and make sure people note their pretty. So I’m not exactly gonna hate on Lupita for that.
@kennedy Well it’s a little unfair to compare the two no? Lupita while pretty is held back by the lack of opportunity and is also past the age of 30. Lawrence got lucky in the franchises she got offered becare there are more roles available to her as a white woman than there are for Lupita as a black woman. Even then as a woman Lawrence doesn’t have nearly the same number of interesting roles as a man. Nyong’o is at least trying to be in interesting roles (like with her play and the biopic) but keep her name high profile. Which as a career move makes sense. It’s not like she’s Blake Lively. Not the best actor in the world (I rarely think many Oscar winners are as great as they’re made out to be) but she’s not nearly the worst.
About the taking pictures in Mexico part – I think something like that could happen in my country. Not the taking pictures part, because that’s very rude, but staring. I would’t say it’s meant to be insulting, it’s just that there aren’t any black people where I’m from. The majority of people I know never saw a black person in person. Or any person that isn’t white. It is natural to be interested.
You will be stared at and classed as ‘other’ in any part of the world where your skin tone isn’t the norm. My white, red-haired friend is forever stared at and followed everywhere she goes in Korea where she lives. The same thing happens to me (black) when I visit her. Same thing happens to her when I take her home to Africa when we go visit rural areas. It happened to me when we first arrived in Norway where we were the only black people in our neighbourhood, if not entire town. And again when we arrived in Dorset. The difference is whether people react to your ‘otherness’ positively or negatively. We had/have positive reactions whereas it sounds like Lupita had negative reactions.
Yes, I was going to say the same thing. Even my dad, when he was a middle aged white guy, was looked at as a novelty when he did business in Japan.
There is an important thing to consider, Mexico does not have race issues as in other part of the world regarding black people specially because we almost never see people with really black skin (almost all of us are brown).
I say that because as weird and maybe disrespectful asking her for a picture it might have been, I doubt anyone did it with bad intentions. Knowing my people they probably took pictures with her because they found her really pretty (yes, some people do that here), not because she was black.
Latinos routinely turn their collective nose up at black people, especially where I live.
I agree.
You must not be from Oaxaca. Mexico, and pretty much all the other Latin American countries as well, definitely have problems with Black people. Maybe not with African Americans per se, but plenty of these countries have Black populations. They had this thing called slavery, and it lead to plenty of Africans being spread out, around the globe.
As an Afro-Latina I can attest to that. People will argue up and down with me that I can’t be Guatemalan because I’m Black and “there are no Black people in Guatemala.” Sure.
@Lizzle, I’m from Mexico City (and actually have family in Oaxaca =) ) Of course there are black people in Mexico but in numbers they are not huge compare to the “mestizos”, and they are mostly in certain regions of Guerrero, Campeche, Veracruz and Oaxaca. I do know the the Afro-Latinos struggle with racist as***les.
What I was referring is that black Africans or African Americans aren’t common at all. One of my French teachers was from Congo, and he told me he barely knew a couple of Africans here.
I am from Western Mexico in a medium size city and there are a few African-Americans, one family per sure with teens, and I see them go around town and I think people used to stare at them, but more because their looks are unusual than out of negativeness.
We also get some people moving here from Veracruz or other parts with very dark skinned, curly haired people, I bet with more African descent than we could usually find (not so rare to find people with very curly, kind of kinky hair , there are quite a few people). I get them at my school, and none calls them names, or anything. It is very normal. There would probable bye staring if they were speaking other language, or if they were wearing their hair in styles that are more common in other countries, dreadlocks, or multiple ponytails. That is actually very uncommon, even for kinky haired kids here.
I respect the experience of others. I just say what I have seen. People who look different, too short, too tall, too large, too slim, too something out of the ordinary are sometimes bullied, and sometimes the attention they get is too much, particularly for very private people. One needs to get a thick skin sometimes. I was called out in my own city for being taller than average, fairer than average, and having eye problems, on top of being 2 years younger than the rest of my classmates. I could say that was devastating, but I choose not to be it, I managed and overcame it. Lupita also had that chance, fortunately.
When I was traveling through India, I got stared at and asked for pictures alot! This happened more so in the rural areas. I am Latin American but very fair skinned and at the time, my hair was blonde. You should have seen the look on some of the children”s faces. They really had never seen anyone that looks like me! They were quite taken by my hair especially, LOL.
I did not get offended, but it was a bit strange. My friends and I were amused by the whole situation.
This. I think that may sound very odd for American users, since they live in a incredibly racially diverse country. I’m from Chile and we don’t have all that diversity. 10 years ago a whole year could pass by without you ever crossing paths with a black person. So when you actually saw one, it was natural to stare. I know the other person might feel very awkward and it may be rude, but it’s not done maliciously.
Okay people, let’s be real, Mexico has a HUGE race problem. Half my family is Mexican and let me tell you, the lack of diversity has very much contributed to Mexican culture believing stereotypes about race. There are tons of racist jokes/memes in Mexico and other Latin American countries. In fact, it is more socially acceptable to tell racist jokes as well…no one batts an eye. Another thing that no one talks about is the skin shade racism within Mexico. To me it is shocking how most of the managers and business owners are light skinned more Spanish looking, and then all the low paid labourers Are darker skinned, more indigenous looking. It very much reminds me of India’s issues with light skinned Indians being put above dark skinned Indians. If you think Mexico has less racism I’m sorry but you’re in denial the problem is absolutely huge there as it is elsewhere.
That always struck me as odd in telenovelas – judging by them everyone in Mexioc is white. Most telenovelas from South America are like that, now that I think about it. The only ones where black people were featured more prominently were Brazilian ones.
so within people of color inter-racism is called Colorism….
and from what I can tell every culture that has come into contact with europeans or have had the peasants in the hot fields tanning and royalty in the cool staying pale in the palace (thing China, Korea, Japan) —- deal with colorism….
interestingly enough….. white gingers seem to deal with some type of harassment based on their ‘coloring’ and are made fun of, fetishized (sp), bullied, considered weird/strange/peculiar, weak…. i heard this from my friend who just happened to be white, tan, and blonde.
This reminds me of a study I read about how when American sitcoms were first broadcasted in Latin America eating disorder statistics skyrocketed. Mass consumerism is linked to self-hatred IMO.
Absolutely!
Wow that’s amazing.
She is right – western beauty does affect the world.
In india – only fair women are seen as beautiful and you can see how the women there are constantly trying to make them look less dark.
It’s like people have been brainwashed into thinking that fair equals beautiful.
Whilst I’m aware of the skin lightening thing among Indians, I didn’t realise how ingrained it was until we had an Indian girl stay with us this summer. She was very beautiful by any standard, everybody who met her commented on her stunning beauty. She was also dark skinned. And for the 2mths she lived with us, she kept asking us about skin lightening creams, and or medical ways to lighten her skin. No amount of reassurance from us would budge her stance that her dark skin was unfortunate. If we went shopping for cosmetics or toiletries, her only question was whether they would make her skin lighter. She was only 22yrs old. So sad.
I think I read somewhere that Indian ideals of beauty predate Western infkuences. That it has something to do with the caste system. I might be wrong though.
I understand the point you are making Maya, but the issues in India are not simply a product of western ideals being exported to a foreign country.
India is a hugely diverse place and the skin colour issues in India have a complicated history which evolved out of several different factors which predate colonial rule, including lighter skinned populations of the north coming into contact with darker skinned populations in the south, the imposition of the Hindu caste system with lighter skinned populations supposedly belonging to the “ruling classes,” the classification of Ancestral North Indians (ANI) as being descended from a “superior race,” etc. Certainly, the bombardment of western ideals (and companies) hasn’t helped, but many countries in Asia have their own (ancient) social histories to contend with too.
Great post, and additionally the very basic concept that darker skin equals working class/working outside.
Thanks! Great point. Particularly prevalent in early Chinese cultures, I believe.
oops, posted in the wrong spot. Please ignore.
yes , mimif, getting to work outside= tanning, =hand labourer vs. rich person who does not have to be outside=lighter skinned.
I also read somewhere that bit that in India that happened, ale, if I am not mistaken, it happened in China too, the lighter skin and also the feet binding. Fortunately the feet thing was banned, but the skin lightening prevails.
It is not just “western”.
What’s crazy is that for blacks-lighter is supposedly more attractive, but for whites-darker is more sought out. I have insanely pale skin, almost translucent, and I CONSTANTLY get told to go tanning or go seek the sun more.
Because for whites being tan is now seen as a sign of achievement and wealth. If you’re tan then that suggests you’re not some poor worker drone stuck inside and behind a desk all day withering. You’re probably someone with money! Someone who can take vacations and be outside and get tan.
In short, nothing is ever perfect for all of us. It’s just amazing how that works.
.
@LAK
I certainly do not mean to discount your experience with your guest, but calling skin lightening ingrained after dealing with one person’s insecurity is not really an accurate representation of Indians. As a Punjabi myself, who lives in a community with a huge East Indian population I have never met one single person who either has lightened their skin or has felt the need to lighten their skin. But again, I am a part of one specific cultural group and I know that within India different regional populations and ethnic groups have varying experiences with skin colour and skin lightening. I simply object to broad generalizations.
I am British but of Indian descent, and from MY experience, Indians are very colour conscious. I have dark skin and have no desire to change it, but I have met plenty of Indians who feel they have to change their skin colour to be beautiful.
A lot of that has to do with caste as someone mentioned. The funny thing is I come from a high caste, and this particular group are known for having dark skin. It’s not all caste though, it has to a lot to do with colonisation.
I agree that skin colour as a beauty standard is pervasive amongst almost all ethno-cultural Indian groups, but I was referring to skin lightening specifically. And as you pointed out, even those who are keenly aware of skin colour are not necessarily prepared to alter their colouring.
My larger point is really that if you ask 100 different Indians about skin colour you will receive just as many varied responses, and that broad generalizations are unhelpful. There is no such thing as a pan-Indian experience of skin colour. Yours and mine are clearly very different. And like I mentioned above that could be due to being part of different ethno-cultural groups, it could have to do with our specific communities, upbringing, etc.
Punjabis are by and large some of the lightest skinned people in India. I have been to South India and Punjab and it is like being in two different countries, the people look that different, including features and skin colour.
I think that South Indians and Indians from other parts of India, where darker skin tones predominate, are more concerned with ‘looking fair’. If you are Punjabi, you are probably already lighter skinned, so why would you be concerned with whitening creams.
It’s not just about varied responses. Regardless of where you live in India, light skin is valued over dark skin. As always, a culture’s beauty standards are on full display in popular culture. Look at Bollywood stars, they are disproportionately lighter skinned, same with the Ms. Indias in beauty pageants.
I’m not a follower of beauty pageants but I did note with great interest that the first Indian American to win the Ms. America pageant is many shades too dark to have ever won in India. She is of South Indian origin.
I think if you ask 100 Indians about skin colour, most of them will tell you lighter skin is more desirable, and it is much more valued. I have yet to meet an indian that has wanted darker skin. There is a reason why skin lightening is is a multi-million dollar industry, and that’s because people are investing in it. These products are advertised everywhere and by every major Bollywood star, and that’s because the demand is there.
Most matrimonial ads state the skin colour/shade of the potential bride and that’s because it is of importance.
@Sanders
I pointed out (very clearly, in fact) that I am a part of one specific group, and that that would have a bearing on my perception of skin colour, but the OTHER Indians I have encountered are from every part of India and with skin colours that range from near white to near ebony. And no one has ever lamented or wanted to change their colouring. I offered MY experience as a counterpoint to one put forward by LAK.
Again, my point was, that while there are SOME indians who want to lighten their skin, there is a danger in observing the experiences of a few and extrapolating from that some grand assessment of “Indian” values or preferences. I NEVER suggested in any one of my posts that such a problem did not exist. I am simply asking people to remember that India and Indians are not some homogenous blob, but a country and people comprised of individuals with diverse opinions. Is that really a problem?
Nina, obviously we both have our personal experiences andecdotes and they are subjective. Like you, I haven’t read research papers to know what percentage of the Indian population lightens their skin. That does not mean one can’t make observations about the cultural values of a country.
To focus on how many people are actually lightening their skin misses the bigger issue. The fact remains that light skin is considered the ideal beauty standard amongst Indians while dark skin is considered undesireable. That is what I have a problem with.
It is so ingrained in Indian culture. As someone noted,there is a very profitable skin whitening industry, there are admonishments from mothers to stay out of the sun or you will get dark, there are marriage ads that reference fair skin… I could go on with multiple examples. It is very harmful to girls and women and should not be glossed over.
While I understand that India is diverse and we should be careful about generalizations, the poster who shared her story did experience a very real and common value that Indians hold. I’m more upset about the devaluing of dark skinned women.
@sanders. I agree. You explained it very well.
The damage it does to women (and increasingly men), is immense. The thought process where being darker skin makes a person ugly or less desirable is very common in India.
I had one girl tell me recently that she couldn’t fault her boyfriend who cheated on her, as she was dark skinned!
Dyan, It’s true that it impacts boys too.
I don’t think it diminishes Indian culture to point out some of its problematic cultural values. If this was a site that just bashed poc cultures adnaseum, I would hesitate to speak openly about these issues. And that would be a real shame, to have to present cultural perfection to outsiders and not be able to explore and critique negative elements of ones socialization.
Fortunately, that’s not the case here. There are many discussions where people also point out the racism in North American and European countries and I think that these are important conversations too. I really appreciate having a space to have these discussions, with people who comprise a broad range of identities, countries and cultures.
Thanks Kaiser and fellow celebitchies!
Dyan
It is very sad that the girl you mention has internalized the ideas about skin colour.
There is very little out there to counter it.
Although I have some issues with the Mindy Project, it is pretty awesome to see a dark skinned Indian woman on TV. I felt equally pleased to see the darker skinned Ms. America.
Nina: I have been in contact with Indians all my life, and have lived in India at some point. I understand the various arguments as they pertain to caste and or ‘fair skin’ across the different parts of India.
I mentioned this one girl because I largely had forgotten that aspect of Indian Culture. She reminded me. The fact that this one girl was so stuck on skin lightening made me sad precisely because that sort of attitude was the norm with the Indians I came into contact with as I grew up. It reminded me how much Indians value ‘fair skin’. That’s what I meant by ingrained.
And I stand by the word ‘ingrained’ because that is the only descriptive word for something indoctrinated into us such that there is no logical explanation for why we do something even when we live in an age that tells us it is a false thing. This out of this world beautiful girl thought her dark skin made her ugly. And that is an attitude I used to come up against with many Indians I met along my journey in life. You would have thought that the young ones would have shrugged it off, but clearly not.
As for whether or not I am generalising about skin lightening creams in India, the multi-million pound industry, fronted by many Bollywood stars bears out my opinion. Ditto the types of shops one can purchase these types of creams in London.
I didn’t specify the girl’s ethnicity whilst you brought up your own, but aren’t punjabis light skinned to begin with? Therefore, less likely to suffer from the need to have ‘fair skin’.
ETA: a friend of mine runs a marriage website aimed at Indian market. Considered one of the best. Guess what is the most common request of potential suitor/bride? ‘fair skin’
Actually fair DOES mean beautiful. It literally means ‘beautiful’ and sometime ago ‘pale’ and ‘light’ got added into the definiton so now everyone thinks fair means white skin & beautiful, hmm, wonder why….lol
Two things:
1) She looks awesome here, and much better than the hair pyramid pic,
2) While I do like her, I think she got lucky with an Oscar. I don’t think she’s that great of an actress, and I think she got a role that helped her shine enormously.
*ducks head and runs for cover*
I actually agree. I think she’s beautiful and intelligent, but only so-so as an actor (although I’ve only seen her in 10 Years, so who really knows). But I kind of think she’s overrated. I also think that CGI acting is really difficult (maybe more so than ‘regular’ acting), and some people just can’t do it.
CGI acting is not easy! It’s really hard to act “a dragon is attacking you” and not look like a fool!
Agreed. I want to, but can’t find it in me to like her. I don’t think she was all that great in 12YAS, and I think her lack of work speaks volumes, either about her supposed talent or whispers about her behavior.
She”s supposedly working with elephant conservation, but I hardly ever see anything about it on her instagram nor hear her talk about it. She’s beautiful and seems intelligent, and could be doing much, much more.
And that story about photo taking? BS. Because there are no black Mexicans? Or because tourists have never seen a black person? Nope.
Uh… Maybe her lack of roles has something to do with the endemic racism in Hollywood? Just possibly?
Wow at this thread. She’s a classically trained actor. Maybe she’s not to your taste but her skill seems self evident.
I know plenty of classically trained actors, and a lot of folks who have been through Julliard. It’s not an absolute guarantee of ability. Plus, classical acting requires a skill that doesn’t always translate well onto the screen. That’s why it’s treated differently.
I saw 12YAS and thought she was fine in it, although the role falls into the Hollywood prejudice double typecasting of a suffering black woman. I also watched the Liam Neeson Shooting People On A Plane movie (hangs head in shame) and I can say with authority that Dick Van Dyke does a more convincing English accent. I hope she does get substantive film work to prove me wrong, but I’m not sure she will.
I don’t the picture taking is BS at all. I’ve been openly gawked at in Mexico, as have my black friends. In England, where there are plenty of black people, some random white person (not an English native) asked to take my photo. My Chinese professor said that while traveling in Maine, people asked to take his photo. This sort of thing happens to people of color all the time. Once my father, who’s from West Africa, wanted to take photos of a group of Native Americans we saw at a pow wow. I told him not to.
She’s a classically trained actor. Maybe she’s not to your taste but her skill seems self evident.”
And George W. Bush graduated from Harvard but does that make him a highly intelligent man?
Also since when did winning an Oscar guarantee you a huge career? Adrian Brody anybody?
Or Helen Hunt or Hilary Swank? It seems like their post-Oscar careers up and died.
I don’t think she’s an amazing actor, either. She wasn’t that spectacular in 12yas, then turned into a fashion girl, and her lack of work speaks to her acting ability. I feel bad for her that every conversation about her revolves around her skin color, and not her talents.
I agree she’s not that great of an actor. I’ve been to Mexico countless times and there are black people there. I call BS on the picture taking as well. She comes off as somewhat entitled to me. Something about her rubs me the wrong way.
Thanks for saying that. It seems that if I say something about Lupita’s talent or looks the site deletes it.
She had like two lines in the “Shooting people on a plane” movie. There’s no possible way you could evaluate how convincing her accent is based on that.
I don’t believe people in Mexico stopped her to take pics with her. What are they? Savages? Maybe it was an idiot punk but I can’t believe ‘people’ did it. I think there are less black persons in my country than in Mexico but no one would do such a stupid thing. Maybe a stupid punk but not ‘people’.
A black woman is talking about her experience, and you don’t believe her. Why not? Why would she lie? This is the problem when race is discussed, people are often quick to dismiss it and trivialise it.
My best friends mother who is black, was in Thailand recently and when she was visiting a zoo, most locals stopped look looking at the animals and stared at her instead. A few years ago I was in Italy with a black friend, and when we entered a restaurant, most of the diners stopped to look at him. Are they also savages?
Exactly! And news flash, stupid punk racists are everywhere and they are people.
That’s Thailand not Mexico. There are black tourists and black mexicans. It’s not the same.
@FingerBinger Sorry but black Mexicans are concentrated in certain parts of the country, like Veracruz. One can go to many parts of Mexico and see no black Mexicans, and if you do see them they happen to be biracial, not blacks descended for generations from slaves. Mexico is not Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic. There are not black Mexicans everywhere.
Yep, Thailand is definitely not Mexico. Mexico has Black people living there. There were slaves here in the U.S and there were also a number of slaves that were brought over to many parts of Mexico. So maybe what the OP is saying is that she finds Lupita’s story hard to believe since Mexico do have Black people.
Now maybe if she said she was in Idaho….ok, I kid, I kid.
I think this kind of thing happens a lot more than people think-not just to black people, but to anyone who’s different. I was in Japan with my fiancé (who is 6,8), and people asked to have their picture taken with him. It doesn’t have anything to do with people being ‘savages’, but just intrigued or interested in something different.
My husband travels to Japan frequently for work and complains that it’s like a star being hounded by the paparazzi. He’s constantly having people ask for pictures, just because he’s different. They’re very polite about it though.
You realise this would have been in the early 1980s, right? Her family moved back to Kenya in the mid 80s. Not that it would surprise me that some today would still act this way on seeing their first dark skinned black woman.
But Blacks have been in Mexico since slavery.
True and yet there are still many Mexicans who may never have seen a dark skinned person in real life. Just as there are Americans who have never seen a black person in real life, inspite of the slavery legacy there.
Yes those things you said are true. I’m fully aware of that as you can see by my joke up thread. But does that make Lupita’s claim anymore true? Lupita was born in Mexico City but moved with her family back to Kenya before she turned 1 years of age. She didn’t return to Mexico until she was about 16 where she studied for about seven months, and took classes at the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México’s Learning Center for Foreigners, in Taxco, Guerrero. Note that the school was a learning center for foreigners, therefore we will have to believe that Lupita must have been the only Black person to have ever attended that school and been in that part of Mexico . That’s why the natives wanted her picture because they had never seen a Black person before though the school catered to foreigners it must have not been any other Black foreigners there.
Another reason why some posters may not buy her claim is if you read the article she was asked what was it like to spend most years of her childhood in Mexico. This was her answer, “People would stop and take pictures of us just because we were black. It was a time during that tricky adolescent phase when you’re coming into yourself and you’re trying to pave your own way but you’re insecure about where you lie. It devastated me.”
She didn’t correct the reporter by saying I only spent seven months in Mexico as a teen. Though I was born there I moved back to Kenya before I turned one. She’s going with the story of spending childhood years in Mexico but if you do the math she didn’t even spend two years combined in Mexico.
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It is very possible but not because she was black. You see, some people here that have never had the change to travel abroad, like to take pictures with pretty foreigners. I’ve seen that happened with my Belgian friends and my cousin’s Japanese exgirlfriend.
Also, I don’t know where you are from but we almost never see black people in Mexico (we come in all different shades of brown but it is quite different).
Edit: I meant black Africans. We do have regions with black people. Even one of our national heroes was an African-mestizo.
Saks, it depends where you live to see blacks or not. I live in a University town and we have had exchanges and there are blacks, but in some smaller towns or in different, less touristic areas, finding people of other races will be more rare.
Of course I think that Laupita, having lived in Guerrero of all states (there are black mexican communities in some coastal towns there), would probably feel less harassed, but who knows? And some people just do not mean to be rude. When we had a professional basketball team in my town, you could see s many people trying to get their pic taken with the uber tall guys, the black players were particularly successful with the ladies, suspect their different looks, not only their talent was attractive to them.
There are black mexicans. I’m having trouble believing people were taking photos unless she’s referring to tourists.
Why don’t you take a look at this article about a black woman’s experiences in Europe, if you don’t believe black women get asked to have their pics taken or treated differently in other countries. I’ve been to Europe, Mexico, French Canada, etc., and have been exposed to rude behavior, including stares and one picture request.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gloria-atanmo/why-more-african-americans-need-to-travel-abroad_b_8154190.html
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen. I don’t believe Lupita. Am I not allowed to doubt her story?
Europe is not Mexico and there have been Blacks living in Mexico since slavery.
I just read that article and this sentence made me so happy: “The best hospitality I’ve ever experienced while traveling Europe the last two years came from Romania, Croatia, Montenegro, Belgium, and Scotland.”
I’m not from one of these countries but I am from Eastern Europe, and I’ve often been told that we’re more racist than people in the west. But it mostly comes from staring and thingslike that because the population here is almost 99% white. It’s not malicious.
I’m British and have lived in the UK all my life and in some parts I have been stared at constantly. I’ve even had cars stop so people can take a closer look. So next time, lets not discount a person’s experience just because you have trouble believing it.
Perhaps it’s true that she just wasn’t delivering. If they didn’t want her in the film, they would not have cast her in the first place. I know everybody wants her to be uber successful, but isn’t she already? I don’t find her to be a very good actress, so no, I don’t find it fishy or funny that her scenes were redone and/or cut.
It’s a silly tabloid story from the Mirror for crying out loud! Her role was never big to begin with (think Cate Blanchett in Lord of the Rings). Unfortunately thanks to the Mirror, people determined to dislike her will believe the role was once bigger. It’s classic dishonest trash journalism because it’s so hard to disprove (headline: JJ denies Lupita cuts!).
The Star Wars backlash begins. Right on time.
I wonder how much this discrimination flows from colonialism – of large parts of the world by whites. It is all about power. For example, a lot of pornography is nothing more than patriarchal propaganda about women’s proper role as man’s servant, helpmate, caretaker, plaything. Whereas men exist for themselves, women exist for men. Men are subjects; women are objects. The dance seems to be about white men…and how we are all objectified and valued accordingly to their whims. For exploitation, a beautiful woman of any color other than white is termed, “exotic”?
To continue my comment (above): According the Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary (10th edition), the word “exotic” means 1) introduced from another country 2) foreign 3) strikingly, excitingly, or mysteriously different or unusual 4) related to striptease. The racism of beauty is is deeply embedded in our institutions and the very words we speak, according to the notions of the white male gaze!
But even Angelina Jolie has been described as exotic and we know she’s White.
Honestly it’s quite mean for some posters to imply that Lupita’s lack of consistent work post-Oscar is due to her acting abilities. Being a minority actress in Hollywood is HARD, and most of the time the amount of work you get isn’t in relation with your talent. If this was the case Angela Bassett would be just as in demand as Meryl Streep and Viola Davis wouldn’t have had to wait until 50 years old to being offered meaty roles. As Viola herself said: minority actresses aren’t less talented than their white counteparts, they just don’t get the same roles.
Now, Lupita may not be the next Meryl Streep, it’s totally possible considering we’ve seen her in just one film; but she’s more than decent acting wise, she’s pretty and usually this combination in Hollywood is enough to make you work consistently.
The reviews of her play were stellar and many critics commended her choice of an ensemble work as introduction to Broadway.
I don’t think that Lupita is an acting genius or the best thing since sliced bread but some of y’all really won’t give her the benefit of the doubt.
“If this was the case Angela Bassett would be just as in demand as Meryl Streep”
First there are not many White actresses Streep’s age who are in demand like Meryl Streep.
Secondly the difference between Angela Bassett and Lupita is that Angela has been a working actress since the 70’s. She might not have reached Streep’s level of success, not many have, but she does work.
But I do agree that beauty plays a role in the work you get but just because some people like you find Lupita to be pretty there are people like me who don’t.
V, I always wait for your comments in Lupita posts because I usually can predict what you’ll say. Your comments always have such a bitter tone and you usually end with a comment about how people think she’s pretty. It seems to really anger you that people find her attractive. Not sure why. I’m very curious. There are many celebs that people find drop dead gorgeous but that I feel are unattractive and it doesn’t bother me at all. I’m just really interested in your extreme dislike of her. Intriguing.
Well I’m happy to not disappoint you. I don’t care much for her. I will admit to that. But why do you have an issue with me not liking her? Why do you have an issue with me not finding her pretty? But yet it’s ok for the many posters to say that she is pretty. Am I allowed to disagree or is this a we must all agree site. Hey, many people on here find Cumberbatch attractive but I will post that I don’t find him attractive or see the hype about him. Oh, but you’re not waiting for me on the Cumberbatch post are you? Oh I have a dislike of Gisele as well. But answer me this, why does it seems to anger you that I dislike Lupita?
In truth if you’re really waiting for my comments on Lupita you must wait for long periods of time because I don’t always comment on her posts. There are even some of her posts I don’t even bother to click on. Feel free to go back and check my history with Lupita.
V4Real is an African American woman who thinks it’s unfair that an African dark skinned woman got (and still gets) so much hype and being called pretty. She hates that she won an Oscar before all the other “regular black gals”.
I have heard this from many African Americans, both men and women, and they feel some sort of confusion and hatred towards darker skinned women. We see this in who they deem pretty (often lighter skinned or “light skin” as they call them high yella, redbones etc they have a whole dictionary worth of words to describe different shades of brown, it’s quite fascinating actually).
They don’t mind the media hyping up the rihanna’s and beyonces, alicia key’s because in their eyes they like those types to represent the AA group, even though most African Americans are a darker shade of brown.
This mass dislike of those with deeper skintones is something that goes very far back with the AA community, the blue veins society, the paper bag tests….I could go on.
What I will say is, mental slavery is still slavery. And anyone who can deny Lupita’s pretty face is a liar, she is conventionally attractive facially, small nose, big eyes, high cheeks bones, round face, big lips….she has a symmetrical face.
Now whether she is up to YOUR standards or not does not negate the fact that she has the right facial features and symmetry to be attractive, plus her face is very photogenic. But in any case, lack of talent and beauty hasn’t stopped people from hyping up the blake lively’s (plastic surgery and all), jennifer lawrence etc who are all average compared to lupita and if they weren’t white and had blond hair NO one would call them beautiful.
Don’t bother answering my comment, I am not interested in having this discussion, I just wanted to help the poster above understand where V4Real was coming from and once you understand THAT, nothing else needs to be said.
Now, my opinion of Lupita is that she is a pretty girl and I haven’t seen her in enough movies to judge her acting skills but sheis getting great reviews on her play and is headed to broadway. Also, she comes across as cold to me, I don’t sense a warmth from her and I never found her “likeable”, but I will always defend black women from colorist people who don’t know what intersectionality is nor have any clue about how Hollywood works.
V4Real: I don’t have an issue with you not liking her and if you saw anger in my post then you were looking in the wrong place. Nothing I said conveyed the idea that I was angry at you for not thinking Lupita is attractive. I very specifically said that I found it intriguing. I don’t wait for you on the Cumberbatch threads because I don’t visit them on comment on them. So I have no clue how you feel about it him. But it definitely stands out that you make the same exact comments in almost every Lupita thread. You seem to have anger towards her as if she’s wronged you personally and you don’t feel she deserves any of the attention or admiration she’s gotten. And that’s fine. But once again, I will say that I find it intriguing.
Neutral Girl: I love your post. And so much of what you said makes perfect sense.
@ not so neutral. You don’t know me or my skin tone so that was a very ignorant comment you made. If you did know anything about me you would know that I don’t like Beyonce and have said on C/B that she has lost her pretty. If you think I dislike Lupita because of her skin tone that makes your comment even more ignorant because you don’t know me or what I like. I often speak highly of dark skin women. Go search for my comments about Tika Sumpter and the actress from Precious if you think I have a problem with dark skin Black women. I don’t like Lupita because I don’t like Lupita and it’s my choice.
@Almondjoy. You just lost all credibillity because like I said I don’t click on all Lupita’s posts as you just clearly said I did. Goodbye.
In that case V4Real, I apologize to you.
I am sorry I grouped you in with people who think like that and I have met many! Some also don’t like an African dark skinned woman specifically and would rather an AA dark skinned women get this attention which I can also understand to a point. But the animosity is not necessary. That is all.
You’re still so angry lol. My credibility is in tact because Google has 4 search pages filled with all the comments you’ve made. You have a wonderful day.
People should relax calling each other angry over someone they don’t know. It is all subjective speculation as to who Lupita really is. We are all obviously aware (I hope) that there is a narrative being sold to us, as with many actors, musicians etc basically most anyone in the public eye. It is quite ok for some to like her and for others to not like. However no-one has a monopoly on what is the right way to feel about her and whether to believe her or not.
I’m rooting for Lupita to succeed and to get a role/s where we can actually see her prove her acting chops. Her performance in 12 Years a Slave was not all that (not for me). I agree with @kate that Ejiofor and Fassbender really shone in a way that Lupita did not. I do however acknowledge that she beat out lots of other people to get that role, so I’m sure she can act and act well.
I think she is beautiful and I love that she is a darker shade of black. I totally love that she was crowned “People’s most beautiful”. The importance of people around the world reading about this, looking at a black woman and acknowledging her beauty cannot be overstated. It is not just important for little black girls to see this. It is important for the whole world, just so we can start adjusting/widening the brackets of what is or is not beautiful.
There are times when I question some of the things she says such as above “I was devastated”, when her picture was allegedly being taken due to her being black. That statement does not ring true to me for the following reason. Lupita was brought up in the lap of luxury, a luxury that has allowed her to get the best education both at home and abroad. It has afforded her the ability to pursue her interests up until the point of success. The people she interacts with, the type of life she lived, the type of support she has and continues to have does not equate to someone being thrust into a foreign country and having her confidence shaken because her picture was being taken. I may not have articulated this very well, but there is with her, sometimes a tinge of falseness, of trying to project something that she is not or was not. I hope I am wrong, time will tell.
While she has a point, I also read an article that studied economic representation of people on TV, and basically, it’s white collar, top 20-10% that are represented in most TV shows. Even when they are supposed to be middle class, their homes are way too huge to be true middle class, etc. And the amount of billionaires on TV is hugely disproportionate (we also moved from millionaires to billionaires), with most superheroes being filthy rich, too.
While I do not doubt the need for showing smart and beautiful black people, I also wonder if tackling the economic disparity could help in that respect, too. I would imagine that growing up in a dinky apartment while watching seemingly everyone else live in gorgeous 3-story picture-perfect homes (according to TV) does not do people favors, either. It’s like we’re taught that problems of the poor are depressing, and only problems of the white are worth watching.
We also have to keep in mind that watching often means sympathizing. While I always suspected that most people in jails have rather compelling stories, watching “Orange is the new black” definitely put a more personal twist on it.
I believe her about people taking pictures. My dad is from Mexico and we visit that side of my family every year and everyone in town knew when the “white kids” were in town lol everyone would go to my grandma’s little store to come see the “white kids” btw we aren’t half white or anything were just light skinned. My brother had blonde curly hair when he was a baby and I guess they’d never seen that so people would actually take pictures of him and with him. It was weird lol his hair is basically black now and the people there can’t believe he used to be the baby with the blonde hair lol
I believe it too…we knew an Asian family living in Mexico and they were blatantly stared at everywhere they went! Not to mention rude comments :S Obviously tourist areas are more used to diversity but many inland cities in Mexico aren’t diverse at all!!!
Let’s also address the elephant in the room that no one has yet.
Lupita isn’t just black. She’s DARK skinned black. No Halle Berry or Beyonce here, the game changes significantly when you’re not the ‘appealing’ shade of black. Viola Davis has spoken about it often and following her own career struggles and how she had to have a role specifically written that shows her as a sexual being. It is not just that Lupita being a black woman is hard in terms of acting achievement. It is that she is both dark skinned and natural hair and that in our current media that translates to slave more often than doctor.
I think many people worry because in the end society might have no problems letting her slip away whereas if her skin was a touch lighter or her hair straighter she might see more roles. She’s certainly beautiful and thin enough and I’m sorry but there are plenty of not so amazing young white actresses all over the place for it to be about talent, so yes people are nervous.
Exactly. It’s very telling, that the only role she is known for is a slave. Because there are no other roles out for women that look like her.
Viola Davis is stunning, and the although she may have had roles in movies in the past, she became mainstream for playing a servant.
So it amuses me when Lupita’s talent is questioned because she hasn’t been able to follow up 12yrs. This is the industry that had Emma Stone play an Asian character. And according to Hollywood, the ancients Gods of Egypt were white – you learn something new everyday.
Lupita has to promote herself a lot more than white actresses because she is fighting a lost cause.
Off-topic: one of my best friends is a native Coptic Egyptian (born and raised, etc). She has said that she still can’t believe how many people look at her oddly and say they’re surprised by how she looks because they thought Egyptians are black. She’s light-skinned with light hazel eyes. To me she looks ethnic, for sure. But she’s not Black. But she doesn’t look like Emma Stone, either!
“If you’re brown, stick around. If you’re black, stay in the back.”
I wonder how many of us grew up hearing that?
“She’s certainly beautiful and thin enough and I’m sorry but there are plenty of not so amazing young white actresses all over the place for it to be about talent.”
This all day long.
But the not so amazing young white actresses usually end up making lousy film after lousy film until they either disappear of the radar or move into lifestyle. If they’re smart they give up on film really early and make bank on network TV. Only a tiny handful consistently get good scripts with good directors.
Lupita has been pretty clear about the type of work she’s willing to do, but if she’s not a truly great actress, she’s not going to be offered projects of that caliber. So she may have to lower her standards a bit. Kate Hudson, Gwyneth Paltrow, Anna Paquin, Mira Sorvino, Uma Thurman, Minnie Driver, Rachel McAdams, Amanda Seyfried…all these actresses careers started out great, they were all on track to get the best roles in the best films. As it turns out, they aren’t quite as talented as once thought (or aren’t talented at all), so expectations have been adjusted and they’ve done TV, done mediocre rom-coms, and taken a lot of small supporting roles in average movies. That’s how it goes. If Lupita is being picky without the talent to back it up, she’s not going to get roles.
Well if her part just wasn’t working or if she just didn’t do a good job in the movie for whatever reason, then of course they are going to try and cut her scenes down. This happens all the time.
I have to say Im surprised by Lupita’s career now. It seems like she basically sustains herself from doing editorials and covers. When I first saw her, I thought “Woah. She could really be a model”. As it turns out… she more or less is.
I’m just surprised she hasn’t done any work at all. I know it’s a lot harder for actresses of color, but is it really that much that there’s nothing for her? Not even on TV? (Not looking down on TV – right now that’s where all the good stuff is).
It doesn’t seem like she wants to do TV.
Well, she’s coming to Broadway in a play she is in at The Public Theater, which is a sold-out run. She and the whole cast are coming to Broadway in the play.
http://pagesix.com/2015/10/20/lupita-nyongo-to-take-play-eclipsed-to-broadway/
Yes, Lupita is beautiful. Nope, I don’t like her that much but that is spontaneous.
Most of her claim to fame rests on 12 Years a Slave. And that is just one movie. Not much. I find that that isn’t enough to judge her acting talent entirely.
As for her scenes being cut down: I hope we get some of those scenes as extra scenes on dvd / youtube. Often many scenes which the director cuts out are very interesting and beloved by fans.
Her role was cut from the movie but she’s had 3 magazine covers to promote said movie? And the director who just felt she wasn’t good in the movie went to support her show at the Public Theatre? I find it hard to believe that her play would be going to Broadway if she, the most recognisable member of the cast, was just not a good actress.
I thought she was very strong in 12 Years and deserved the oscar. I agree with others who say that her lack of roles have to do with being a black and dark skinned actress more than her acting ability. She has received good reviews for the play, Eclipsed.
I would love to see her in more movies rather than fashion magazines.
She won an Oscar for her first real film role, and otherwise we’ve only seen her in a small part in a crappy Liam Neeson film. It’s entirely possible she’s not a very good actress. It wouldn’t be the first time an actor got lucky with the perfect role early in their career and then it turned out to be a fluke.
Tbh, she was good in 12 Years, but far from the stand-out. If Ejiofor or Fassbender had stood a better chance of winning in their categories I doubt she would have been made such a focus of the awards campaign towards the end. She was barely even being pushed for a nomination until she started getting noticed for her fashion and the studio realized she could gain some traction.
I get that it’s a huge deal to see a dark-skinned African woman succeeding in Hollywood, but at a certain point the blind adoration is almost patronizing. It’s like what Adele was saying a few weeks ago, about people putting all these positive traits on her purely because they’re excited to see an overweight woman be a pop star. How many people are fans of Lupita because of her work, and how many are fans just because you don’t see women like her in Hollywood? You can be happy to see certain actors breaking through, or certain films succeeding, without actually enjoying them yourself or thinking they’re good. For example Bridesmaids and Trainwreck aren’t my kind of films at all, but I’m glad they were successful.
Her 15 min in 12 years a slave impressed me more than every Jlaw movie…. there I dared to say something about America’s sweetheart. Crucify me… 😀
I would like to know more about Lupita’s family and in how far and in which ways they are involved in african politics.