Tom Hiddleston covered the weekend edition of the Observer Magazine, the Guardian’s weekend magazine. Hiddles enjoys The Guardian, and he’s given some great interviews to the newspaper over the years. This time around, he’s promoting The Night Manager, which will be coming out in the UK next month (Americans have to wait until April). The Observer piece is written lightly, mostly because Hiddles is studiously uncontroversial and apolitical, so it’s not like he really wants to GO IN on arms dealing, the Arab Spring or any of the subjects dealt with in The Night Manager. You can read the full piece here. Some highlighs:
When told he has a titanic brain: “Which means it goes down. There are no survivors.”
He says he’s proud of I Saw the Light: “I mean, that sounds arrogant. I’m just proud to be in such a… It was so far away from me; it was really not my life experience at all.”
How he acts: “I suppose I’m fascinated by the private vulnerability and the exterior of people. I think that’s an essential truth. I sort of quite like trying to find what makes people tick behind the construction of their identity.”
How so many successful actors went to Eton: “There are so many successful actors who didn’t go there…Like Michael Fassbender and Daniel Craig and Domhnall Gleeson and Luke Evans and Gemma Arterton and Andrea Riseborough. There’s so many, the list goes on and on and on. Idris Elba.”
The debate about how the acting world has been overrun by posh private school guys: “It’s socially divisive in a way it shouldn’t be, because I think wherever you are from you should be able to follow your passion. Wherever you went to school, if you have something authentic to contribute, you should be allowed to. There is an acknowledged problem of access and inequality of opportunity – I don’t know how to remedy that. But yeah, I’m on everyone’s side; I’m on the side of the actors. I’m not there to divide the world into pieces.”
His childhood: “I think intermittently quiet and playful.”
Being sent to boarding school at a young age: “I mean, this is not exceptional. I was very vulnerable when I first went. I went to boarding school when I was seven and then I sort of learned how to deal with it. So I must have somehow got more independent through that experience. I don’t think it was… I’ve never sort of had analysis about this or anything, so I have no idea, but… You just kind of move on. It wasn’t damaging, but I’m sure it made me independent. It must have had some…” he drifts off. Later he’ll apologise for vagueness over the matter. He wants to be truthful, he says, but it’s “difficult, isn’t it? Sometimes it’s so hard to unpack.” He looks up plaintively. “Am I making any sense? Am I being extremely worthy and self-regarding? I hope not.”
His four-year-old niece: “I’m called ‘Uncle Yay Monster’ because when we run, she basically wants to run as fast as me but she can’t, so after a while I just pick her up and she screams: ‘Yay!’ It’s exhausting, but enormous fun.”
The videos of his dance moves: “God, it’s so embarrassing… It was a big public Q&A [in South Korea], there were 7,000 people there, and I was taking questions from the audience. Somebody asked: ‘Of what body part are you most proud?’ That’s just a wrong question, to which there are only wrong answers. So I said: ‘My feet’ and they said: ‘Why?’ and I said: ‘Without my feet, I couldn’t run and I couldn’t dance.’ And they said: ‘Well, now we have to see you dance.’ So I danced… And I created a monster. There we go.”
The Observer notes that Tom doesn’t really go in for self-analysis from a psychological standpoint, which you can see in his answer about being packed off to boarding school at the age of seven. It’s almost like he’s talking about someone else. I did love the part about his niece and Uncle Yay Monster, just because I bet he is a really lovely and loving uncle. The part about being posh and the acting world and all of that… I don’t know. I think it’s an important conversation for the British acting community to have and no one is saying posh blokes shouldn’t get into acting, but there should be an acknowledgement that posh actors are taking up more and more space in the British actor community, right?
PS… Hugh Laurie and Olivia Colman were on Graham Norton promoting The Night Manager this weekend. I know Tom is off in Australia working, but part of me thinks that Norton isn’t eager to have Tom back after Tom brought out his overeager puppy routine last time.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Wow. What on earth made Elizabeth Day or The Guardian editors possibly think asking him about Eton for the thousandth time would make for a fascinating interview?
In what context did he refer to Platonic philosophy, Graham Greene, and Bob Dylan? That probably would have been a far more interesting read.
Why not ask him about his role with the BFI? Or, ” you mention Idris Elba. Idris just made a movie about child soldiers. You met with child soldiers in South Sudan last year, could you tell us about that?” Anything but dragging up Eton again.
or maybe ask him did that lawn chair make marks on his bare bum filming High Rise
(forgive me, just saw that picture this morning and …. good lord!!)
How did you live through all of last week without seeing that? Or the high definition versions of that which allow one to count freckles, moles and see the vein in the left hip area?
The Lord is good indeed!
Amen!
Not going to lie, that thought did arise when I first saw the image.
I dunno, Lilac. It does matter here. We’re living in a context where this week, maintenance grants were taken away from working class students, thus limiting their access and opportunity even more than it’s been limited over the last eight years. It’s topical here. It’s our equivalent of #OscarsSoWhite and the Grauniad is a liberal paper. If Tom likes to suggest he espouses their values, he should have something to say on them other than “But, but, but… Idris didn’t go to Eton and it hurts my feelings when you point out that I did.”
But it has been flogged to death in every UK interview with him.
I understand, Sixer, but she didn’t ask him that. Or if she did, she edited it out of the article. And the issue, as I understand it, is that, because of government changes, arts funding for attending drama schools has been cut and the tuition is now very high and thus unaffordable for all but the wealthy, which limits training, and future job potential, and networking abilities to future jobs, right? And wouldn’t that be more about RADA than Eton? But she didn’t really go into that either and he has answered those questions before. Short of wealthy people swearing off their chosen profession entirely and giving all their trust funds and inheritance to less advantaged students, it really seems this line of questioning really doesn’t go any where when it should probably be addressing funding for arts training.
I think all these interviewers try that, Lilac. But he always shuts them down with a polite whine, a what about so and so, or an anecdote about him coming off worse on one occasion as if one door shutting on him is the same as a hundred doors shutting on everyone else. Perhaps if he ever actually engaged instead of deflecting, he could get it over with.
I really have no sympathy with him whatsoever. His reflex response to these questions is always to defend his privilege one way or the other. He should do better.
“Perhaps if he ever actually engaged instead of deflecting”
I would like to see the privileged rich who can acknowledge the problem exists actually come up with a ways in which they can help to move the needle back to center. Spouting off a list of names of those that weren’t posh and made it (which pales in comparison to the numbers of posh) comes off as defensive. The responsibility belongs with anyone with money and therefore, power and influence. It doesn’t have to be done on a grand scale, just something that enables those outside of the public school system to get the opportunities to move up.
Actually, the responsibility belongs to everyone with a voice and a vote. Of course, arts funding in this country is pretty much non-existent. If you notice, many American actors started as children (Kirsten Dunst, Leo DiCaprio, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Ryan Gosling, Ryan Reynolds) or are beneficiaries of nepotism (the Gylenhaals, the Fondas, Jennifer Anniston)
Nutballs: I would like to see this too – like Jimmy Mac and his scholarships. But I don’t think it’s incumbent on the LEGS to do this if he doesn’t want to. I DO think it’s incumbent on him to openly acknowledge that this situation exists and not try to downplay it all the time.
Lilac – yes, we can all contribute. My contribution is to tell Tom he’s a privilege-denying arsewipe! 😉
@Sixer, I agree. Besides the issue with cuts to education and the arts, the current Prime Minister also went to Eton so the subject is going to be brought up whether he likes it or not. It is an important issue in the UK and this interview was in a UK publication.
He’s a very intelligent and highly educated man, charming, engaging and tactful in interviews. He could easily steer the interview to this subject having researched it in advance and have a well-prepared response. Possibly even write about it instead. To me that would be a better use of his time than reading the 1st 100 pages of the interviewers book, admirable though that was.
That said I was disappointed with this interview and I mainly blame the interviewer for that, I’d much rather read his thoughts on Greene and Plato and more about the Night Manager which was the reason for the article, instead of a whole paragraph wasted on who followed who on Twitter (wtf?).
As much as I like Tom, or like certain parts of him, I have to agree with Sixer on this. I get it that this is an uncomfortable topic for him, but it’s time for him to unpack that, and I am all for journalists bringing it up until he does. There is a reason why it keeps coming up. It is not a trivial subject.
Part of the way he is privileged btw is in believing that he can just put this subject aside and be comfortably “apolitical” “nondivisive” and “noncontroversial.” That just reeks. People who don’t have privilege cannot afford to ignore injustices that can and will steamroller right over them and leave them with nothing.
they were removed from all students not just working class students including nursing students which is a hit on the NHS as well-do not forget the the children of disabled and single parents who are not working class-to me part of the problem is everyone is putting every one into little boxes and fitting them into a one fits all theory.
I have friends who go on with their acting careers despite a steady stream of roles and and supports herself with other work to keep up with here London rent on a very tiny one room flat.I know another who runs a company which works with people in foreign prisons like Russia and institutions for people with long term mental heath issues between.I roles.I have a working class frIend who runs a community theatre company and will take anyone if the role is appropriate and they can work for basic rate.My ex who once said to someone he was an actor said Sorry I have never heard of you as if that was the criteria for being a successful actor,But some how your background is more important than what you actually do
I would like to see evidence that someone like Tom who exists comfortably in the 1% show real awareness of the realities of those in the 99%. In every one of his responses on this subject, he falls short. He acknowledges that inequity exists, puts his hands up in the air and tries to move to a more comfortable topic.
What would impress me more is seeing that he has been closely acquainted with enough working class actors that he can actually point out the various ways in which their opportunities and experiences have differed from his, despite being just as talented and deserving of success. But if his best friends are all of the same class as him, with the exact same advantages, then he’ll continue to respond as one that lives in an opaque, cushy bubble of wealth, giving only verbal assent to the injustices that abound outside that bubble.
I would like to see evidence that he’s thought long and hard about how the system could be make more equitable, which at this point, we have no reason to think that he has. I don’t think that’s asking too much and I think it’s important that he as well as others like him be asked about it. Like Miss Jupitero said, it’s not a trivial subject and those that don’t have the privilege don’t have the luxury of ignoring the injustices.
@Nutballs, I agree with you completely on this. He has all these other very priveleged friends and has spent his entire life surrounded by priveleged people. He often seems very smart and aware in interviews, but in this instance, he seems very out of touch.
I’m going to add to Lilac’s point that when Tom was in school, RADA tuition was around £1k-£2k per annum and has gone up astronomically since. His supposed advantage was simply timing. He was around one of the last alma maters to see normal tuitions costs. He also paid for his tuition at RADA with his own earnings through television work. And this is from someone who had the advantages in life at Eton and Cambridge, but who also got in through good grades and prove his worth to attend these prestigious schools.
I’m not sure what answer he can give to please others. Maybe one day when he has the guts, he should write an article about his views (if ever).
So ALL those people he worked with in cinema and theatre were ALL privileged? How do you know that?
How many American actors are required to defend, or outright apologize, for their education in interviews? Not many that I’ve noticed. Has anyone Googled the tuition costs for Juilliard – they are astronomical, but I don’t recall any of those distinguished alumni being accused of having unfair advantages over their peers. And here’s the kicker – I had to also Google a list of said alumni, because I could name less than a handful off the top of my head. How many of those same people also attended Ivy League schools? I’ve no idea – and yet I know the educational background of almost every working British actor, whether I care to or not. Why is that?
@Dara, maybe not education, but with wealth, there have been a few like Rooney Mara and Lana Del Rey (not actor but someone in the entertainment industry) and many get accused of their success through nepotism, like Elizabeth Olsen. In the states the criticisms feel more unfairly skewed towards women than the men (e.g. Scott Eastwood or Ansel Elgort).
In the states, I haven’t seen American actors having to defend their education like in the UK.
Eton isn’t an education: it’s an entry ticket. That’s the point.
As I said below, the parallel to the class debate here in the UK is the race debate in the US.
Americans making light of it is like a Brit wading into #OscarsSoWhite and saying, “Blimey, don’t you Americans make a gigantic mountain out of molehill about race. Race is much less important than my internet boyfriend who is just perfect, thankyouverymuch, and if you say he’s got white privilege then that’s you being reverse racist.”
“Eton isn’t an education: it’s an entry ticket. That’s the point.”
I can’t fully feel the scope of your frustration, but pinning the class disparity on individuals won’t solve anything. It really doesn’t. In fact, it’s misguided and a great distraction to something much bigger that is selective and leaves out entire groups of people. This is where I completely agree with Lilacflowers.
I can’t see this as Americans making light of an ongoing issue. In fact, because I’m American, I see the issue as more systematic because I’m from the outside. So why shine the spotlight on a few actors? They don’t exactly make the rules. They can throw money at things, but to little effect. The change has to be from within. As an outsider, all the begrudging of rich actors to me comes off as a great distraction. I will call it that from now: The Great Distraction.
The most people want from these actors is acknowledgment, which to me is absolutely pointless and actually achieves nothing, but blowing around some hot wind.
And far from. My fav white famous bf is so twee, embarassing with a sad hairline, and is great at avoidance of any real hard topics, while making not so successful indie films. But I like him for the entertainment he provides, not the personal stuff. Even then, I defend him when I feel the criticism lodged against him are unfair. If he does something that IS problematic to me, then there is no sense of duty to defend.
Jammypants:
I’m not throwing a spotlight on a few actors. It is unlikely that Celebitchy would cover a UK article about 70% of high court judges being of this background, or 60% of the government’s cabinet, or two thirds of BBC executives, or, or, or. But if it did, I would be saying the same stuff. Especially if the people concerned were doing their best to say it ain’t so in an interview.
This article on Tom isn’t throwing a spotlight on a few actors either: it’s using one actor to discuss a British conversation that is going on in every sphere. Should Tom be exempt because he is popular on the internet?
But neither is particularly relevant. This article is about what Tom SAID. As most articles on here are about what famous people have said. And I take exception to both what Tom said and how he said it.
Yes. The issue is systemic. Who on earth is saying it isn’t? Only the people who on one thread are upset about #OscarsSoWhite but on another decide it’s outrageous to criticise an individual who benefits from a particular society’s privilege structure for downplaying the level of that privilege.
@Dara- I know Jessica Chastin has said numerous times that she went to Julliard on the Robin Williams grant/scholarship. The few that I know who went there, it is mention in interviews but yes, they are never given the questions that Tom & his like get. Same goes with the Ivy League, it is mention in interviews but the conversions here aren’t the same as they are overseas. Why? Because we don’t have an aristocracy. We made sure to get rid of that after the American Revolution & because of that, we don’t seem beholden to it if people go off to Ivy League schools or drama schools. The aristocracy and their titles still exists in Britain & from what I have gather here (and every time a Royal family posts comes along) it is still a major issue in Britain.
Yeah, I think it was a very timely question.
Please, if his biggest problem is that all his life he’ll have to answer that one and the same question and defend his posh upbrining, then boohoo, I am not sorry for him. What a bother, compared to the majority kids out there who can barely afford a proper education…
Social inequality is a huge thing in the UK. I don’t even live there and I’ve noticed it just from talking to people from the UK and tourist trips. You are judged differently if you come from the upper class or the lower class, as you are judged for your accent and place of birth. I’m sure there’s an element of that in every country in the world, but I get the feeling it’s MUCH more pronounced in the UK. I mean it’s part of their tradition to separate people according to class. And they still have a royal family which they’re very proud of, much more than people in other countries in Europe where there are still royal families.
I’ve been to Spain and you’d barely know there’s a royal family, it took me by surprise that the country is still officially called the Kingdom of Spain. Which can’t be said for Britain. Social inequality, aristocracy and posh people seem to be an integral part of British culture, history, national inheritance and pride. The way Americans pride themselves with everyone being born equal and having the same opportunity, etc. In theory anyway. There’s no equivalent of the American Dream in the UK. As far as I know, no such cultural concept exists. You’re born into the social circumstances that you’re born in, and that’s it. Wishing for more for yourself is rude, improper and not British. You keep your mouth shut and you do as you’re told.
So yes, I am all for changing that and forcing the upper class to talk about it all the time and remember that they aren’t privileged in any other aspect other than the financial one. They’re not smarter, better, more important or better behaved just for being born into the “right” family.
It’s the Guardian, social justice is their thing. Also, it’s an important conversation to have. Up until the latter part of the last century, acting was something “one does not do.” You could be disinherited for going onstage. Its acceptance as a legitimate career choice by posh people reflects an important societal change, and is worthy of discussion. And who better to discuss it than someone who personifies it?
LEGS cheeses me off when he goes “It’s SO hurtful to be asked about my privilege” and “look over there! look over there!” when Eton comes up. Inequality of opportunity and access doesn’t victimise people who actually have it, Tom. It doesn’t matter how many times you try to posit it. Even puts me off the LEGS.
But that isn’t Tom’s fault that he was born in a well to do family. He has in the past agreed that he has had it much easier than most, but if I was him I would be sick and fed up of it being dragged up all the time instead of talking about his projects.
And that recent interview seemed for the first half more about the interviewer.
Spidey – perhaps they’ll stop asking him on the day he actually gives an answer that doesn’t involve him trying to water it down with whataboutery or some tale of his own victimisation. Every time he’s asked, he does this in one way or another. He can never just say, “Yep. I’m sorry to say that’s how it is in the UK, I benefited from it, and it sucks.”
I agree completely.
While I can understand that Tom is sick of the question – especially if it’s implied that he’s somehow undeserving of his success – it isn’t going to go away. He of course is not to blame for the system but he DID massively benefit from that system. Listing off a few names of actors who didn’t go to Eton (some of whom are neither British nor male!) really won’t do. Approximately 93% of the population did not go to fee-paying schools, so obviously there are going to be some successful actors who went to comprehensives. But the fact is that the privately educated are massively over-represented in the arts, and that situation is getting more extreme by the year.
Tom’s an actor, not a politician, so it’s not his responsibility to change things. But it would be nice if he at least acknowledged the injustice of the system from which he benefitted.
Ethelreda
Exactly. It would be nice if he acknowledged it without the endless qualifications. And he needs stop being narcissistic about it and understand that he himself and the arts generally are just one strand of a much larger conversation. The Eton Mafia are over-represented in law, journalism, politics, and many, many other areas. It’s not all about TOM but he just will not acknowledge that.
@ Sixer Whatever he says, someone will complain about it. And he isn’t going to say his parent shouldn’t have sent him to public school is he? Perhaps he wishes they hadn’t from a personal rather than educational point of view.
As I said before he has admitted to being very lucky. But looking at the vilification some actors get for speaking out on political matters I can’t really blame him for his anodyne replies.
“The Eton Mafia are over-represented in law, journalism, politics, and many, many other areas. It’s not all about TOM but he just will not acknowledge that.”
They are literally running the country (into the ground). I think this dimension escapes some non-British readers here – it’s not just about actors, it’s about power in general, and how more and more, a tiny number of Eton/Oxbridge graduates are taking all the country’s weath and resources into their own hands. It really IS an important issue – your analogy with #oscarssowhite was a good one.
Back to Tom. To repeat, obviously he isn’t to blame for any of this and he’d be an idiot not to take the priviliges handed to him on a plate. Good for him. However, I think the fact that he’s lived in a bubble of privilege since the day he was born really shows in these interviews. He simply does not see how resentful the wider population is of the growing influence of the Eton mafia, and not just in the arts. Nobody expects him to solve the problem, but if he at least admitted it exists, he might hear less of these questions he’s clearly so uncomfortable with.
He’s not responsible for the unjust system, but he’s a product of it and needs to address it as someone who recognizes its tremendous unfairness to others born of lower class. He does come off as living in a bubble and unaware of what it’s like to be undermined by society at every turn. His self-help quotes about living the life you dream don’t really help either. It’s easy for someone in his position to say things like that.
” someone who recognizes its tremendous unfairness to others born of lower class.”
I don’t think he does recognise it. Not at any meaningful level, anyway. When forced, he reluctantly admits there’s a problem, but I don’t think he has any sense of how it affects people in the real world, if only because he doesn’t know anyone who lives in what most of us consider the ‘real world’. Again, it’s not his fault that he grew up in a bubble of privilege, but given that he’s now a public figure, it wouldn’t kill him to broaden his perspective and show a bit more empathy with those who didn’t get everything handed to them on a plate.
@Ethelreda – I should probably point out that it’s not that I think institutional racism isn’t a problem in the UK (it is) or that institutional classism doesn’t exist in the US (it does). But I do think the cultural consciousness and pain is comparable. And it’s very revealing that Tom doesn’t see that. I would LOVE to see his response on #OscarsSoWhite. I bet the equivocation would suddenly disappear. Any money you like.
It’s not his “fault,” but it *is* his reality and I would respect him a lot more if he could just acknowledge it. He is absolutely willfully blind on this subject. His response doesn’t cut it.
Sixer, I disagree on one thing: I do not believe his equivocation would disappear on any topic. He is very good at answering questions while saying absolutely nothing. He has actually said that he avoids anything controversial, he will not take a stand on any issue. He really doesn’t want to risk losing a single fan or alienating anyone. Not for anything. I really wish he would just get over it. It would be so refreshing.
I agree, @Miss Jupitero.
Miss Jupitero, I completely agree.
He does come off a bit defensive in this interview. But, I’ll give him credit for at least acknowledging that there’s a problem, and admitting that he doesn’t know what to do about it. For me that’s a lot better than a lot of other answers we got about this posh debate.
But it’s Hiddleston, he’s as uncontroversial as they get, which after this week is a breath of fresh air.
Not sure how he could have answered in a fashion that would meet with approval though. He has been asked about his own posh experience a lot of times, how can he change his childhood experience or for that matter the existing inequality? He doesn’t come across as arrogant, he acknowledges the problems, he acknowledges his own privilege.
Maybe I am missing something that is going on in the UK where he could be participating in some common front but otherwise the interviewer was totally self serving. Tom has no control over the circumstances of his birth as much as the less financially well off can control their lack of wealth. Unlike many rich celebs, he really seems charming, self effacing and a decent guy. Short of quitting acting and donating all his assets, what should he do?
He doesn’t really acknowledge it though. The interviewer says he ignores her questions and tries to fob her off with ”Oh Idris Elba didn’t go to Eton.” When pushed, he does reluctantly admit there’s an issue (he could hardly pretend otherwise) but is very vague about it and complains about how ‘divisive’ the debate is. He very clearly isn’t comfortable talking about the problem (which I can understand, though that’s one of the few downsides of being a highly priviliged celebrity) and seems to just want the whole subject to go away. Well, that’s not going to happen.
Vauvert – apply what you are saying here to the #OscarsSoWhite debate. You wouldn’t think highly of Mark Ruffalo saying, “Chiwetel was nominated last year so it’s not that bad,” or “Well, racism against whites also exists you know,” would you? Because, in effect, that is what Tom is saying.
Nobody is saying that the LEGS isn’t a talented actor or that he is undeserving of success, just as nobody is saying that white actors nominated for Oscars are useless at acting.
People are asking him about the institutions and structures within British society that make it easier for his privileged group to achieve success by several orders of magnitude. And every time he is asked, he tries to deflect from the scale of the problem because it’s personally awkward for him to acknowledge it.
,
@ vauvert. Agreed.
This. I think Tom is more intelligent than 99% of his peers, and thus realizes that it doesn’t matter how well-crafted his answer is; that he will be dismissed as posh and just doesn’t understand at best and absolutely vilified at worst. Unless he gives up acting and funnels all of his money into scholarships for everyone that can’t afford Eton, he will never say the right thing by virtue of being from his privileged background.
He is wise to merely deflect. There is a reason he doesn’t get into personal and political discussions. He’s no dummy.
@vauvert, @ SloaneY
Exactly! He’s right to deflect the issue as we can already see how some react even when he does acknowledge his privilege or the unfairness of the system, then he’s criticized for not saying enough or not going more in depth. Besides, this article to me is a half thought, cut & paste fluff piece, and doesn’t even merit an in depth response from anyone unless it’s someone very knowledgeable on the subject and that wants to be on the soap box.
He did acknowledge it as I read it but was honest enough to admit he did not have an answer to what is an insurmountable problem as the discussions on this page have shown.
He was not saying it is not that bad just that he does not have an answer and does not want to enter into politics. Mark Ruffalo as much as I adore him loves his politics but not enough to boycott the OSCARS so not sure what that says in the grand scheme of of commitment.
I love you to pieces, icerose, you know that. But honestly. He did the bare minimum of acknowledging and even diluted that with passive aggressive nonsense about being “divisive”.
The facts on the ground are really quite simple. In many areas in UK society, including but not limited to, acting, we have 7% of the population competing for 70% of the jobs, with the other 93% of the population sharing 30% of the jobs between them.
This situation is arrived at by the usual gate-keeping systems of private wealth, elite institutions, and professional and social networks. And it is unhealthy and unfair.
And Tom won’t admit it. And Tom should admit it.
I can admit it. Watch me: I went to elite institutions and benefited from the connections and networks they bestowed on me. Without those connections and networks, I probably wouldn’t be sitting here doing a very well-paid, reasonably prestigious job and my life wouldn’t be anywhere near as easy as it is.
See? It’s not hard.
Same thing here Sixer:
Seven Sisters college, Ivy league prestigious grad school degree, and all the network and connections that go with it have served me rather nicely. AND things need to change an become a lot more equal– including my alma mater which adopted its nondiscrimination policy embarrassingly late, but which under its current president is finally doing much more for underprivileged students (and even women who are prisoners). I want to see more change. I have benefited from wonderful opportunities, but these opportunities need to be available to many more people. We can do it. We have the resources.
Sixer I have been two three types of schools ,three types of higher education,lived in a variety environments including ” working class “and agree in principle with what you say but I also say that we all have the right to choose what we will and will not discuss.
I have had several incidents where the press has manipulated friends into saying things which myself and friends have said and suspect this happened here.I know many of you will always feel he should say more but I cannot share that opinion.So it is the end of discussion for me
However I did admire McAvoy and he choice to come out with his opinion along side a solution.
@ Sixer “And Tom won’t admit it. And Tom should admit it.” I have seen interviews when Tom has admitted that he has had things a lot easier than most and that he is privileged. ” ‘Look, it’s fine,’ he adds. ‘I’ve been blessed with an extraordinary education. I feel privileged and I know I’ve had an enormously pleasant life.”
From: http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/faking-bad-meet-hollywoods-nicest-villain-tom-hiddleston-8886197.html
@spidey, I think being tone deaf to an acknowledgment already by the targeted party is at this point frustration that should be aimed elsewhere, meaning the primary source of the problem.
It’s not an insurmountable problem, far from it.
I’m sure it seemed like an insurmountable problem to French peasants to get rid of their thousand year-old tradition of absolute monarchy, but what do you know, they surmounted it.
Must have seemed insurmountable for Rosa Parks to do what she did at the time and as a black woman, but what do you know, we’ve come a long way from segregated buses. Though sure, not far enough.
Must seem insurmountable to victims of war and rape to escape, move on and live a normal life, but they manage to do just that.
This, this is not insurmountable at all. It’s just not beneficial for the rich masses in charge of the UK to change things. But as we all know, everything changes with time.
Right at the start of David Cameron’s stint in charge I thought he had got it and I was faced with the possibility of having to vote conservative for the first time in my life. His government proposed that there should be no unpaid internships in public institutions and all positions should have to follow an open and fair recruitment procedure. I was so excited, because that hit the nail in the head, it recognized that those with connections and those who could afford to work for no pay had an unfair advantage, one which should not be tolerated in the public sector. But then it turned out that it was the policy of their coalition partners and Cameron came out and said he had given opportunities to his friends’ kids before, he would do it again and no, it wouldn’t be a government policy. Cameron and nearly all his colleagues went to Eaton and like other old Etonians they have no interest in giving up any of their privileges, or as they probably see it, their god given rights.
@sixer
You seem bent holding someone accountable to the British class system, but Tom’s not a politician nor does he owe every interviewer, especially this one, an in depth response to the class system and it’s ills. He’s an actor not an activist or social economics scholar. He studied the classics, so that should tell you that he is somewhat out of his depth to analyze objectively his own privilege. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t care and doesn’t try to learn, but he’s wise to not be outspoken on a subject that he doesn’t: A) have a leg to stand on in regards to, and B) know how to solve it.
Even if he did have an idea to address the problem or say that he contributes this or that to under privileged actors, he would still be torn into either for being posh or by conservatives for talking about something he knows nothing about. So he’ll never win.
I don’t expect Tom to give an in depth comment to a fluff piece like this. This interviewer seemed incompetent and incapable of writing a thoughtful article on such an important and relevant subject. She couldn’t even write an original piece on Tom and her questions all seemed half measured.
@Cranberry No one is saying Tom is responsible but Sixers point was that he’s not acknowledging his privilege, and in this interview anyway appears quite defensive.
I agree though, the article was pretty poor.
Yes he did get a little defensive, but he does acknowledge that it’s not fair and that everyone should have access and assistance to the arts. And as far as acknowledging is privilege yet again for this trivial article, I don’t know exactly what he was supposed to say. He conferred with her where he went to school as he has many times before when he’s said how lucky he is, etc.
I feel that people are nit picking the issue. Especially on CB most readers know he’s acknowledged his privilege several times on different interviews. It’s a cheap and tired tactic that insincere, lazy, incompetent journalist like this one always fall back on.
Understand, I think this is a very important issue. One of the most important of our times and very intertwined with racism, another issue of our time, and it should be discussed more, thoroughly and thoughtfully. But honestly I think too many Brits have become very accustom to taking pot shots at who ever they think is posh or trying to be posh and so on. They’re not really engaging in the issue on a respectful, in depth level. I find it quit distracting to the issue really when people choose to needlessly attack actors and celebrities just cause they’re easy targets cause they’re already in the public eye. Most actors, especially if they’re still building their career and even then, are not going to talk politics or about controversial social issues, or too much about their personal lives anyway mostly because it will all be used against them at some point by a publication or social media. So to hold Tom to the standard of say a politician or sociopolitical scholar and ‘demand’ he acknowledge his privilege more than he already has to me seems more like people searching for justification for their anger in the wrong arenas.
@Cranberry, you’ve hit on it exactly. I had a few minutes and started Googling his older interviews. Tom has been asked a variation of the privilege question in almost every long-form print interview since 2012 (maybe earlier, but that’s as far back as I went). Four years on, and still reporters keep chasing the same “cheap and tired” soundbite.
How many times is he required to acknowledge he had rare privileges, confess he feels enormous gratitude for that fact, and express hope the situation can be improved for those less advantaged? I give him bonus points for not sounding more defensive than he does. As hard as he works, it must be immensely frustrating to continually have others dismiss his entire career as Eton-advantage when plenty of his non-posh peers found success sooner than he.
What doesn’t mean to be extremely worthy when coupled with self-regarding? Am I being extremely dense and thick-headed?
I didn’t get that either, and wondered if he’d actually said “wordy” and she misheard him.
Don’t feel dense, it’s really obscure Brit slang. It means arrogant, full of himself. With maybe some shades of trying too hard, being over-earnest.
I think it might’ve translated better on video, because I’d imagine he said “worthy” with a heavy ironic tone. It kind of plays off the difference between someone actually being worthy, and someone who thinks they’re all that. The first person is worthy (said straight), the second is “worthy” (mocking tone, maybe an eyeroll).
Ah, that makes sense. Thank for the clarification, @Lucrezia!
Thank you Lucrezia, I was confused too.
Great explanation, thank you. I love it, what a handy word–I spoke to someone just yesterday that completely fit that bill.
Tom uses a lot of obscure Brit speak IMO. Why is that? I mean if he’s so privileged and went to tops schools and had access to everything, why is his wording so old fashion? Maybe it has something to do with studying the Classics. Maybe his professors where old relics that hadn’t retired yet. Sorry if I sound harsh or ageist.
No, it’s one of his fuzzy answers in which he really doesn’t say anything substantial.
not sure -it was a bit of a weird interview and we only get the chosen parts on here.
@icerose, It is an interview I found to be completely bizarre, and I have to wonder just how selective the author was when choosing what to disclose.
The interviewer came off as a tumblr fangirl to me. I thought it was a rather poor journalism in my opinion.
OK, the “Titanic brain” and “Uncle Yay Monster” things were cute.
so cute. And his eyes are killing me. Amazing color!
It’s perverse, almost every celebrity is afraid to have an opinion about problematic stuff, but then they go off and do problematic stuff themselves like appropriating stuff, doing racist things or pointing fingers back at whoever asks a thorny question.
How hard is it to sit with one’s publicist one afternoon and go over the hottest recurring topics in your interviews and come up with good answers, instead of whining that you’ve had it hard some days too?
Tom means well, but he should take his head out of his own arse and look at how the world is changing. He keeps showing a lack of information and sensitivity on a lot of topics and the fact that he veers off into “buhuu, I sometimes ate ramen during university, I am not privileged!” is so… disappointing. You can’t help which social status you’re born into, but you can choose not to be a twat about it.
That would really annoy me.If the artist goes back to his publicist for a good PR answer that is worse than refusing to answer.
Tink, I agree. The question won’t go away, so it would be better for him to come up with better answers (honest ones, I hope) than keep giving the same verbal nonsense that looks more like ignorance or worse, indifference.
Well, Tom is not dumb, Icerose, and if he went to Luke for a strategy, it would be something very considerate. I think that Tom is a very genuine and spontaneous person, and sometimes he digs himself deeper into trouble because he means well and gets overexcited. The press are ace at twisting people’s words and reading what they want to read into a celebrity’s words…
So, he should not go to Luke asking “hey man what do I tell these people when they ask?”, but maybe they can sit together and read some social analysis texts (NOT newspapers and online columns!) and form some opinions based on those, not on emotions that surface when cornered by a press hyena. He’s best buddies with Luke, so good in fact that Tumblr ships them. Luke is a very good advisor, career-wise, for Tom.
That’s how I read Tink’s comment.
“pointing fingers back at whoever asks a thorny question”
I’m not sure how perverse that is, but what is perverse is the multi million/billion dollar celebrity entertainment industry system that fuels all our gossip publications, social media, and tons of other industries. The almighty dollar is what rules in this game and is why poc are historically overlooked (not just these last two years) and women don’t rate as high as men. So why wouldn’t ANY actor be afraid to have an opinion on problematic issues in such a cut throat industry. Actors can spend years even decades before they get a big break, and their career options can be significantly altered with just one mistake or misunderstanding especially now in the internet age.
Boarding school at age 7? Why even have children? That’s completely ridiculous. The posh ain’t shit.
I agree. Sending a small child of 7 away to live in, basically, institutional environment. I can’t imagine how he felt. Poor kid. No pun intended!
I thought the way he tried to talk about that experience as if it was a common thing, something you just had to get through, and then made you independent – only to veer off… it was pretty telling. He clearly hates conflict and complaints, and won’t air anything serious. The soapbox isn’t for everyone, I guess. I won’t judge that, as long as he comes across as a generally good person.
Yes, I find that difficult to imagine. I think that would be so traumatic to a young child. They aren’t even growing up with their siblings or parents.
just because you have kids, it doesn’t mean you want them under your feet every five minutes. He boarded at the Dragon School, I guess, if he was that young. To be honest, if i had kids, now i wouldnt board them without good reason at that age.
But, i do have a lot of problems with kids these days who are growing up in moddle-coddled environments, they have no independent skills, can’t walk a road to School, can’t catch a bus, not allowed to make a cup of tea because they have over-bearing parents, picking up after them, and worst of all, not allowed time with friends to play outside!
Yeah, it’s funny because I was getting pretty annoyed with his answers about Eton, but at the same time, when I read that, it made my heart kind of hurt. I remember the first night I stayed over at a friend’s house overnight (before then, is only ever stayed with close relatives) and although I had a lot of fun that day, I quietly cried myself to sleep after my friend fell asleep because I missed my mama.
I have parent guilt about that this morning–my youngest was over at a friend’s house and the parents asked if she wanted to stay the night. She was too polite to say no, but secretly still wanted her lovey and her family. As soon as she got into the car the next day, she finally allowed the tears to roll. And her friend was face-timing other friends the entire time, so she was lonely, too.
As a matter of interest the journalist who wrote this piece is the daughter of a doctor who went to Malvern St James an all girls public boarding school and Cambridge.
Oooo Spidey!
Nice find, there!
Yes. Like almost all the broadsheet columnists, Spidey. Like almost anyone who interviews him on television. Like most of the politicians he will ever vote for, even if he votes on the liberal spectrum. Like almost all the judges, the theatre directors, the Xs, the Ys and the Zs.
That is the actual point!
My point was that the interviewer was maybe being a little hypocritical.
Why is it hypocritical? The journalist can no more change her background than Hiddleston can. It would only be hypocritical if she refused to acknowledge that her education gave her a head-start in journalism and that the system is skewed against less privileged people. Maybe she does acknowledge this, maybe she doesn’t – as the interviewer she gets to ask the questions, not answer them. But I don’t see how the fact that the journalist was privately educated makes her hypocritical in and of itself.
It may be hypocritical but that doesn’t mean the subject can’t be raised in an interview or excuse his defensiveness about it.
Or maybe not Spidey, if she acknowledges that there is a real problem here and chooses to push the question.
Sorry Sixer I think that it is an assumption to say who votes for whom and why -of course the system is skewed but applying generalities just apportions blame and not solutions.
Tom ,Jeremy Irons and two others in the cast of High Rise paid the total fees for one of the production team as do other stars.It does not provide a global solution if there is one but at least they are doing something practical,It will be interesting to see if the new proposals work.
Icerose: you’ve misunderstood. I said that the vast majority of candidates standing in elections will be from the same 7% privileged background as Tom, including those standing for parties of the left. That’s a statement of fact, not an opinion, and certainly not a comment on which party he chooses to vote for. I said nothing whatsover about who should or shouldn’t vote for whom, and why.
Or don’t you believe that the 7% is over-represented in parliament?
Er, I think you might have misinterpreted there icerose. The way I read it, Sixer just meant pretty much ALL the politicians are public-school educated, even the ones who traditionally represent the working class. Nothing to do who votes for whom, or why. Just the simple fact that if there are no state-schooled politicians on the ballot, you can’t vote for one.
Edit: Ah, Sixer beat me to it. Nevermind.
Sixer, you pointed out the reason why I think it’s not just up to the voters to change the system when all the candidates come from the same privileged background, so the voters are stuck with those that don’t truly represent the constituency as a whole.
I thank you for that information, @spidey. I have always been so baffled as to how the culture of flakiness and arrogance endemic to private all-girls schools in Canada could be so deeply institutionalized. I dislike TH’s response to the question of privilege, and agree with the harsher comments here, but the remainder of the article can only permit me to think very poorly of the author, and I wonder if this triggered responses from the subject which were more defensive and guarded than what have been offered in past interviews.
Which of course the author wouldn’t admit to. Basically she has written a piece, apart from silly wasted paragraph about twitter for goodness sake, which is almost totally unoriginal and lazy journalism. Why didn’t she discuss the other things they talked about such as ” Platonic philosophy, Graham Greene and Bob Dylan” instead of just rehashing what we already know?
Thanks for the reply, @spidey. Just as an edit to clarify what I meant, I meant to wonder if what I perceive to be the author’s intellectually laziness and the forwardness that often accompanies it resulted in an interview which was more strained.
I don’t know that it is incumbent on the author to disclose her education in this scenario, and, in addressing the question of hypocrisy would like to think I would give anyone in Elizabeth Day’s position the benefit of the doubt, but the tone of the interview is such that I can only imagine her delivering the question with an overtly inflammatory agenda.
@ Velvet, and after he had paid for her meal too. 🙂
He paid for her meal– this entitles him to… what exactly?
I went to both public and private schools in Canada and had mixed feelings on both but also made some very good friends I still communicate with.
I did however spend sometime doing some teaching practice in an English secondary school and was very disappointed with the level of education I and behaviour. Luckily things have changed. since then and my kids loved their state schools and the standards were much higher.
I have working class and private school friends as well as colleagues when I was working and i include actors in their as well.I find the public school in film world going on in England is being handled in a very divisive manner and I do not think any actor should have to justify his back ground if he does not want to.
@ Miss Jupitero re the meal – I was being facetious.
A comment from below the line in that Guardian article:
“Lysandwr Blaidd 19h ago
A note to the people saying he should do more: he has, actually, sponsored at least one student to RADA. I only know of the one, but since it hasn’t been much publicized I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there were more. Not everything he does is rung to the mountaintops”
@Spider good for him if he has but it doesn’t make the subject an off-topic in interviews.
Good for him, but if he is not also willing to talk about it, question the structures and institutions of privilege, and get past his comfort zone (which seems to be rooted in being way too attached to what others think about him), this comes across more as just noblesse oblige.
See? He can’t even do charity in private without being accused of noblesse oblige. Normally we tear into celebrities that do things for attention and saying the wrong things. We have one who chooses not to comment and donates in private and not for attention and he’s horrible.
He can’t win. That’s why he stays away from it. I don’t blame him.
I disagree SloaneY. It would be better for him to hit the question head on and show that he’s really thought about it and is concerned about the problem. He’ll continue to get criticized until he does. He needs to change tactic.
People were just ripping Eddie Redmayne apart the other day for doing this same thing, and talking about it. Now, Tom is being ripped apart for not talking about it.
So you would rather he didn’t (privately) sponsor someone?
@Spider of course not, the point being made is that he’s defensive about the issue and it doesn’t come across well.
I’m just wondering if there was a request for any personal questions to be off-limits in this interview
Just a week ago, Redmayne was accused on this site of paying rent for drama students just to garner good PR for his Oscar campaign so, no, I don’t agree that actors should make such donations public or its just noblesse oblige.
@SloaneY Yape. Celebrities are damned if they do, damned if they don’t: “not involved? Then you’re a privileged sucker; oh, you just made your donations and contributions public? Pfff, you only did that for publicity, PLUS you’re a privileged sucker.”
This is always going to be a game of “But why didn’t he say xxxxx instead?” goalpost. And if Tom did articulate something more on it? “But why is this privileged sucker trying to speak over those who are actually discriminated against?!”. So, no! There’s no wining in this game.
He acknowledged the inequality of access (and there’s no indication in the interview that this was only after being pushed to do so, as is suggested above). And he has stated in the past that things were easier for him when he got into acting. So I don’t think it’s accurate to say that he refuses to acknowledge the issue.
However, I do wish he came off less defensive about it. Listing non-Eton actors doesn’t really contribute anything useful to the conversation. And I don’t like the suggestion that the discussion shouldn’t occur because it is divisive. The situation is divisive; discussion is the means to figuring out a solution.
I still love him, but since he’s going to keep getting this question, I wish he’d work on coming up with a better answer.
“He acknowledged the inequality of access (and there’s no indication in the interview that this was only after being pushed to do so, as is suggested above).”
Yes there is. The interviewer says that he interrupted her and ignored her questions when she tried to bring the subject up, and just tried to divert the issue by listing names of actors (some of them female or not British) who did not attend Eton.
She said he ignored “No, they went to Harrow.” That’s not a question, that’s a quip. Then it goes straight into his belief that the debate is divisive, along with his acknowledgement of the inequality. Nothing about pushing him with further questions.
He cut her off when she was about to ask him a question about the preponderance of Old Etonians, and then ignored her point about some going to Harrow – which is esssentially the same thing. So I think it’s obvious that he was uncomfortable with the discussion and would like to have got away with “Oh Michael Fassbender didn’t go to Eton” and then changed the subject. And his ‘acknowledgement’ of the problem was very vague and couched in ‘Why can’t we all just get along?” language, which really isn’t very helpful.
Although I think your interpretation of the conversation involves some speculation that is not quite supported by the interviewer’s account, I do agree with your larger points regarding his defensiveness and the inadequacy of his responses, so I hereby withdraw from quibbling with you about this. 🙂
The list of actors and actresses was in direct response to the interviewer saying that everyone is coming out of Eton. It is only after that she gets to her point about equality and access. Perhaps if she had started with the economic access issue itself in general instead of bringing up Eton as she did, she would have gotten a different response.
We actually don’t know what he is or isn’t doing. He seems to be quite active with RADA. Of course, that provides him network opportunities but generally alums are also called upon to provide network opportunities to others. And school development offices constantly hit up alums to help students financially. We don’t know if he contributes or not.
As I said above, she seems to have left the best part of the interview on her recording device. But she got to ogle his biceps, promote her novel, and he paid for her food.
“The list of actors and actresses was in direct response to the interviewer saying that everyone is coming out of Eton.”
She never said everyone in acting went to Eton. She did say a disproportionate number do, which is clearly true. And rather than admit this, Hiddleston went on to list a few actors who went to state schools – a bit of an inane point, considering that at least 9 out of 10 kids go to state schools.
“And school development offices constantly hit up alums to help students financially. We don’t know if he contributes or not. ”
He may well contribute generously but that’s beside the point. Most people in the UK don’t want a US style system where so much depends on the patronage of wealthy individuals. We want a system which promotes equality and access to opportunity on an institutional basis. To repeat, it’s not up to Tom to achieve this, not at all. But it would be nice if he could acknowledge the unfairness of the system from which he benefitted enormously, rather than trying to skate around it.
But yeah, nice biceps!
Most of the recipients of scholarships at Eton (and Oxbridge, for that matter) are from the same social background as everyone else there, you know. Redmayne was an Eton scholar. In the UK, Lilac, this is just another structural mechanism for the “right” people to get where they need to go.
We hear this one in defence of Benny the Bouncer all the time.
@sixer
scholarship at Eton and Oxbridge are awarded on ‘academic applications’ which is why they go to the ‘right’ people as you put it. But busaries are different and they are designed for financial support based means-tested parental income. They are fewer and far between.
If someone is taking private action to help those who are less fortunate than that person is acknowledging the issues and problems even if it is not in the manner some would prefer.
I try to stay out of the arguments in other countries about their governments but it does seem that this is an issue that started with government cuts and can really only be ended by government action and I don’t see how demanding that some acknowledge that they were born lucky changes that situation. I also know that, as a negotiator, I resolve more cases for my clients by behaving in a respectful manner and not by being confrontational when conversing with opponents. People dig in. And she came off as confrontational.
God only knows what she actually asked because there is no way a discussion of Plato or Graham Greene makes sense in what she presented here.
@Ethelreda, she did not say a disproportionate number at all. Also, you claim that most in the UK want a system of equality, which may be true, however, the majority in the UK did elect the current government, which is the one that cut the funding that helps level the playing field, so maybe most actually don’t? And so those who have shouldn’t do what they can to help those in need because that’s not the system you want? Even though the system you want is no longer in place?
@Lilac:
…don’t forget the Twitter swordfight. Touche!
” it’s not up to Tom to achieve this, not at all. But it would be nice if he could acknowledge the unfairness of the system from which he benefitted”
@Ethelreda
While you’re apparently trying to argue accuracy of what was written in the article with Lilac, maybe you should be more accurate yourself.
To be clear, he did acknowledge the unfairness in this article as he has before with many other interviewers that bring up this same subject.
I don’t believe every kid that gets into Eton is academically outstanding. Prince William was at Eton and hes supposedly pretty average. There are also kids of wealthy people from all around the world who attend those schools because its the right place to be. Securing a place at these institutions can i some cases be a matter of money and power.
It was his parents’ choice to send him to Eton. That’s what parents do. You send your kid to the best possible institution you can afford. I can’t imagine apologizing for that. Part of my response comes from the fact that I am a from Detroit which has possibly the worst public high schools in the country. I remember some other interview when he said that RADA was much cheaper when he went then it is now.
Yes, your parents do make a choice for you, but then when you are a grown up it’s your turn accept that in most cases your career and opportunities are a product of your privileged education. A good school opens the doors to the best Unis, as well. Money makes everything easier, especially when trying to make a living off of less traditional careers like the arts.
It doesn’t mean you can’t have a public opinion instead of just reading names off of a list and claiming there are actors who did not attend Eton.
I attended the most elitist, poshest, upper class school in my country and I would have to be delusional to claim it didn’t have an impact on my professional career, especially when compared to other people in my field (not the arts)
But that is the thing. He never said that it didn’t open doors for him. He even mentioned that he was privileged in another Interview. He just mentioned other actors as well because he is right… He is living in a generation full of great actors coming from GB. It is not his fault that this generation is so talented. Yes a rich family can open doors but if you are not talented enough you won’t get far either….
@Cee – I too attended Ivy league schools and did semesters abroad which helped me immensely as I chose the tradiotional investment banking career. I am not sure if my degrees would have helped me this much had I aspired to be an actor or an artist- I might have been brilliant but who knows if I would have been ‘well-known/successful 🙂
.Even Tom would not have known that he would be successful in an era where there are so many wonderful British actors doing well in Hollywood. And his performances are loved not because of his so-called privileged background but because of his passionate , brillian renditions. And I really don’t think he will say anything controversial because – he is intelligent and MORE importantly because he is still stablishing himself, why would he want to get into this debate but he always acknowledges his ‘privilege’ and I have atleast never read an interview where he is complaining about it.
Also why is he referred to as LEGS here by some posters?
Because he’s got nice LEGS. And because most of my nicknames for him are mean and I quite like some of the dragonflies hereabouts. So I use the mean ones sparingly in deference to them. I used to call him Puddletom, which is a reference in my mind to both LEGS and Narnia. But I’m bored with that one now. I might just call him the Eton Mafia Apologist going forwards, and forget all about the LEGS!
Sixer, whilst the kidlets and I are enjoying a Narnia audiobook in the car (Prince Caspian, with your favorite Reepicheep), I shall continue with The PuddleTom moniker if that’s alright with you. I harp on him enough to be able to stick with the neutral nickname in balance to my periodic salaciousness directed his way.
I LOVE Reepicheep. I might have to go and read the bit where he adventures off to the Utter East again (again, again, again), now that you have mentioned him. Makes me snivel every time. But Puddletom doesn’t appear until The Silver Chair. Hurry up and you’ll get to him!
@Mrs Dragon – I just meant that those of us with shiny educations we sometimes have an advantage compared to others in the same field. Of course a degree can only take you so far and you need to be talented and experienced, but I know too many people in high-paying jobs doing the minimum just because their friends or peers from Uni referenced them.
With Tom though, I’m sure that having money allowed him to pursue his career without responsabilities in the sense of paying rent, taxes and food, plus transport. He was able to live between jobs easily. That does not take away from his talent, but many others with less opportunities end up giving up and getting traditional jobs in order to live and pay the bills.
@Sixer, please don’t dismiss the LEGS, it is my go to word when referencing the Hiddles, and IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT! You can’t ditch on us now, I shall not allow it. LEGS he is and LEGS he stays. (Please forgive my CAPS, but in this case it was warranted I felt). The Eton Mafia are a far bigger problem than just this chap alone.
@Sixer- Thanks for explaining. In that case, I shall call him ‘the voice’ lol
@Cee – agree. references and nepotism are the bane of most professions. My current boss is a shining example 🙁 But in Tom’s field of work , we the fans decide who becomes popular. Maybe his contacts get him the first audition or role but to be so good consistently means he has the talent. I remember reading an old nterview of his and it was mentioned that he was getting acting jobs throughout RADA starting from his first semester, so much so that he skipped most of the after-class events. He would have been a steady actor and dropped out but his agent insisted that he finish his degree and so he did. He also bought his own car – a beatup Peuguot – a specific thing I remember because I too worked a summer job and bought an old car much to my parents’ unhappiness who would have forked over money to buy a car , I resisted.So the very fact that he in some ways tried to make his won way and persist with this career strikes a cord with me.
Plus his voice 😛 I attended the letters live event where he was a surprise guest and can that man READ! Wow! I suppose it’s the British tea or whatever that has so many of these gentlemen wih such honey dripped voices 😛
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_s_oPRDFLk
Mrs Dragon I think you will find that he was getting the jobs when he was at Cambridge (such as in The Gathering Storm) which makes his double 1st even more creditable. I’m not sure if they are allowed to do “outside” acting whilst at RADA. Look at his CV on IMDB and there is a 3-4 year gap during the RADA years.
@Mrs Dragon, @spidey
Yup, I think spidey is right. He was scouted at Cambridge and worked throughout his last year(s). He got small parts, did commercials and voice work, but GS was his most substantial role at that point. He’s said he didn’t have a social life (parties) at university because he had to fit in acting jobs between studying for exams. He also said he earned enough with those jobs to buy a used car to get him to auditions and pay for Rada because his parents were not going to financially support him with this career choice.
I’m sure if Tom really needed financial support, he could always fall back on his family, but particularly his father had a lot of expectations of him to earn his own way after college and was not in favor of an acting career being able to to that for him.
I think Tom is defensive about Eton questions because they are a trap meant to elicit a defensive response. They want him to trip up and say something very classist or accidentally refer to “colored people” like Benedict Cumberbatch.
That’s entirely possible, even likely, Fanny. But Tom is far from an idiot. That’s why it defies belief that he hasn’t worked out a better, more honest, way of dealing with it by now.
He should have. I agree with that. I wonder if the #oscarssowhite debate will prompt him to reexamine this in the future?
I don’t think there is a good answer to the question. The implication inherent in the question is that his success is due to his posh background, so he’s in a position where he’s either supposed to admit that and apologize for it, or deny it and try not to sound like he doesn’t recognize systemic inequalities, which is what he does.
I feel like people are demanding that he come up with “Secret Option C” where he gives some brilliant answer nobody has ever thought of which solves all of England’s inequality problems and also magically dissipates all of the resentment people have towards Eton grads.
@Sixer, Exactly.
@Fanny, I don’t think any reasonable person (of whom there are sometimes too few on internet comment boards, if I may grant TH some license for trepidation) would ever expect him to apologize for taking advantage of his education. I realize that by admitting to the existence of a system rife with inequalities that he would inevitably encounter a vocal, poorly-reasoned backlash from a few. As to the rest of the audience and readership, surely the response would be relief? No one is expecting brilliance or originality, since the natures of the problem and its solution are both quite simple.
I did not read it as refusal to discuss it and did not see why he is being criticised for not giving the answers that people are dictating here.This is an old argument that comes up when ever Tom is mentioned in the context of Eton and we pretty much have the same responses as last time.
But Fanny – you’re making a straw man. Every critical commenter on here, including me, has explicitly said that they don’t expect the guy to a) apologise b) solve the problem. He’s simply being asked to acknowledge that the problem exists. And to acknowledge it without either downplaying it or hinting that he is also disadvantaged by his own privilege. It really is not difficult.
But that’s also a little disingenuous, to assume that if he opens the door, journalists won’t want him to walk through it. The next step is to ask him to follow up with suggestions of what to be done. Then, he just becomes another luvvie, ranting on about the bloody politicians, while playing Shakespeare at the Barbican.
I don’t have a problem with him evading this, partly because fixing this in the arts will be highly visible tokenism (not that there will ever be adequate funding to create a balance) and allow elision on this issue elsewhere, where it is more insidious (look at the media treatment of Corbyn, for example). I don’t need this to be acknowledged, because the arts does represent more of a meritocracy, and to infer that it doesn’t builds a high/low hierarchy that diminishes the achievements of the Posh Spices of the world (no matter what I think of her, personally).
Fanty: Would you prefer a solution whereby there’s an interview rider that background/Eton is ignored completely? Perhaps that would actually be best?
I prefer Benny ranting. He might dig himself a few (well, more than a few) holes but at least there’s an actual opinion there. All we get from Tommy is the usual narcissistic reflex. And there’s nothing in the world that gets my goat more.
No, but this wasn’t framed in a way that recognized its relevance, and as a result, anything he says would be part of a platitude. Because, unless someone is willing to do something about it, then there’s no point in having an actor acknowledge his privilege. In instance one, he then goes on to talk about the fact that he contributes to actors’ scholarships, as someone suggests above, and it comes out as a humblebrag, and instance two, he’s not any semblance of a socialist, and is backed in to acknowledging that it isn’t an issue for him. Either way, he’s getting ripped to shreds, and the status quo remains unchanged.
Honestly, I bristled a little up-page, when you were talking about your privilege. I know this system exists, because it’s the reason I have to work doubly hard to keep up with my better-educated peers (and I still struggle, often), and the reason I’ve tried for years to squeeze out my accent, and the reason I find myself cringing when I find myself deferring to someone my instinct tells me has the privilege to shut the door in my face. It was a nice gesture of solidarity, but it didn’t achieve anything other than making me feel slightly defensive (as I’m sure you can tell by the tone of this post).
I have no problem with ranting, and if he wants to make a case that it is shameful the arts are being neglected in comprehensive schools, and that more scholarships are needed, then I will applaud that, but that’s clearly not the conversation on the table. It’s a prod for a little upper-class guilt, with no substance behind it. The more I think about it, the more I’m on board for him not playing that particular game.
“Fanty: Would you prefer a solution whereby there’s an interview rider that background/Eton is ignored completely? Perhaps that would actually be best?”
I actually think it would be best at this stage. He’s clearly uncomfortable with the subject and as such, he has the right to refuse to answer questions on it. Lots of celebrities have ‘red line’ subjects which are made clear to interviewers in advance. That would be much better than the wishy-washy passive-aggressive non-answers he seems to prefer, but I suppose having ‘no go areas’ wouldn’t sit well with the ‘easy-going nice guy’ image he seems very keen to promote. Not saying he isn’t a nice guy, btw, just that he seems very very eager not to offend, which is why he ends up pleasing nobody when it comes to subjects like this. Maybe best for him just not to go there.
Re: bristle. Ack. Sorry.
You know what it is, don’t you? My privilege speaking. It honestly does show the power of these institutions. Cos it’s not as though my family is posh or wealthy: I was a full scholarship kid. But what those places do so incredibly successfully is to instil in you that you have WORTH. You get to speak; you don’t need permission. You don’t have to worry about your accent (and mine isn’t posh).
So I get to be this hideous mix of knowing what it is like to NOT be a special snowflake because I am the only special snowflake among my family and young childhood friends. So I get angry about it because I know exactly how the system preserves itself. But I also know what it is like to be a special snowflake and forget that every time I open my bloody great gob, out pours the entitlement it gave me.
Sorry lovey. Truly.
No offense ever taken. I was surprised to find myself bristling – we are large, and contain multitudes. But this is exactly what Puddletom is trying to navigate. I am 100% behind creating opportunities to make things easier for the next generation coming up, but hell yes, I’m sending my kids to a good school, and f*ck any accusations of hypocrisy that this may invite because the other side of privilege SUCKS. There is no good and clean way to talk about this, especially in entertainment circles, because that there’s a real problem with reality TV and celebrity culture that obscures political discourse. It absolutely is the opiate of the masses these days. Actors talking about things does nothing in terms of economic politics and cultural materialism. I do believe that actors, and popular figures can have an impact on cultural politics at large, and I give him props for his feminist stance, and all the other things that we roll our eyes at.
My point (possibly) is, that if Russell Brand can’t start a revolution, I don’t need to put that demand on Tom Hiddleston’s shoulders. There’s definitely a discourse to be had, but “I feel bad about the fact that I’m privileged” isn’t it.
Couldn’t agree more about reality TV and celebrity culture. And, from my unrepentant leftie point of view, it’s yet another class differentiation.
You know, I don’t actually want him to *do* anything. I don’t care if he sponsors RADA kids or not, sets up scholarships or not, becomes an Arts Emergency mentor or not (or goes on UNICEF charabancs or not, for that matter). I don’t want him to take a stand.
I just want him to not respond to questions about privilege by listing successful actors from w/c backgrounds as if that makes him not privileged, or to insist that reverse discrimination against posh people is an actual thing. Because it isn’t.
“I just want him to not respond to questions about privilege by listing successful actors from w/c backgrounds as if that makes him not privileged, or to insist that reverse discrimination against posh people is an actual thing. Because it isn’t.”
I’d settle for that as well, which for me is about empathy and basic emotional honesty.
Also, I don’t need a one-man revolution– but it would be nice if he would risk showing a real opinion now and again and stop being so mealy-mouthed. People might chide Cumberbatch for speaking up, but at least he is doing saying what he really thinks. Tom cares way too much about what everyone thinks of him, and this is the way it backfires.
You see, that whole sponsor a student/mentorship thing; I would rather see that. Because there will be a tangible, knock-on effect of putting one more face of diversity (class wise, I’m implying, at the very least) in an environment to represent. If we’re making the Marxist argument, economic actions speak louder than words.
Call me demanding, but I’d like to see Miss Jup’s “showing a real opinion” and raise y’all a mentorship/scholarship type of action on the part of Tom and anyone else who benefits from the system. Words mean nothing and I’d like to see the posh actually do something to change the situation even for one person or a small group of disadvantaged humans that can be helped. Whether its done for good PR or out of genuine altruism can’t be known and frankly, makes no difference. It’s still a good thing to do.
I personally don’t have a dog in this fight since I do the middle-class work I want to do and “the system” didn’t screw me over. But I hate injustice with all my heart and when people have the means to mitigate/combat/change it and don’t, that riles me up. Reading historical novels where class inequalities and power grabs are stained all over European 20th century history isn’t helping matters. Harrumph.
I like Tom the actor and I don’t expect him to change the system himself any more than Damian or Bendy or Eddie. But it would be nice to see more intelligent answers being given to the important topics of the day and something that indicates that it’s important to them too.
I can’t hear or read anything about this Eton stuff anymore. This guy is so smart and well educated. Yes because of Eton and Cambridge but seriously why can’t they ask him interesting questions just for once? Why do they always have to turn him into this good looking guy? Yes, he is good looking and yes, he seems charming but that guy has a brain you know…. I am sure that he did not vote for Cameron. Why bothering him all the time with the same question? Btw I know that Kaiser is not his biggest fan but please why do we always have to mention that GN Show appearance? I am sure Norton would have loved to have him there again as Hiddles is well loved in GB…this guy can do nothing right it seems. Why don’t they bother Fassbender with these questions? It is exhausting….
Education doesn’t make you smart. You’re either intelligent or you’re not. Cramming in facts won’t make your IQ spike. I’ve known super intelligent people who never went to college and finished average secondary schools with average grades.
Good schools are not beneficial because you’re likely to win a Nobel prize afterwards but because they open doors to good jobs, regardless of how smart you are in reality.
I agree Tom is smart, but it’s not because he learned a fancy way to express himself or stayed up late at night learning Latin by heart…
It was a rather dull article, and i too am i getting really fed up of journalists asking him about his education. How many times can the reporters keep asking him about it. I do expect there are a lot of perople who are not aware of Tom hiddleston and the Night Manager it will bring in a new ‘TV’ fan-base for him. But, the guardian, observer, telegraph readers are no strangers to Hiddles as an actor and dont need to keep reading the same covered ground.
The guardian are just typically baiting the readers with putting the public-school stuff into the article. At the end of the day, no matter how sweet Eton trained actors are, they will never be in the right, they will awlays say the wrong thing.
I’d rather a Hello article with Tom in a fake house lying over tacky cushions, talking about hair and make up, then another fawning journalist for the Guardian/Marie Claire who has no investigative journalistic prowess at all!
There really is a media pattern with him..first they all askd him to do impressions months on end..he humored them
Now its all about ‘posh’ schools. The word ‘posh’ itself means to offend , what can he do lol. It seems all the journalist just repeat each other’s questions…why not be original when they ahve the opporutnity to interview somebody.
The irony is that the Guardian, who ran this article is supposed to be left of centre, but most of their journalists come from similar backgrounds to Tom.
I know right? Though wouldn’t it be awesome if they asked Tom ‘ What do you think of fellow Eton-ian Prince William who had way more privileges than any of your peers and still manages to work only under 40 days in a year 😛 ? Do you think WIlliam is a fine example of why they should abolish this posh system?”
I would LOVE to read this question even though Tom would most likely deflect and not answer
I would be nice if even 10% of the article actually bothered to dissect his work and talk about THAT. It’s a rare treat to read any interview that actually discusses his work, not his “sex appeal”, or fanbase, or Etonian background. Journalists have no integrity or imagination. They spend more and more time injecting themselves into these pieces in guise of talking about the interviewee.
Given that he is an actor (a brilliant one at that..his theatre work is superb!) his line of work is unpredictable regardless of where he went to school. As someone upthread said it was his parents’choice to pick his school..at 7 years of age I highly doubt he made that call. And he has in other interviews mentioned how his father as not very keen on him going to RADA and chosing to be an actor- an usteady profession. Tom still did it.And going to Cambridge and RADA also implies he had good academic credentials because although you need to pay the fee you still need to meet their entry requirements and have a specific score. He is always well-spoken and has a remarkble vocabulary so clearly his education did him good..he also does good work with UNICEF and writes about it brilliantly too. This was really a no-win question for him as he is not working in the education sector/politics.
On topic of education though – his elder sister is very well-educated too with 2 or 3 Master’s degrees from london school of economics- a very prestigious school again. Maybe they just like to educate themselves, the Hiddlestons 😉
all three of them were Oxbridge and came out with double firsts. that is good brains! no matter what level of training youve had, expensive education etc, you still have to have a real flair to get top marks. But, even the most academically intelligent can still have the common sense life skills of a dozy knat. 🙂 And, sometimes Hiddles is a little batty, if he could work his way to putting up some book shelves, remember to send a birthday card and write a business proposal ‘under 200 words’ instead of the usual academic lenght of 9000. i would be very suprised.
only teasing you Tom, loooove you really.
What I really like about Tom (and would probably dislike if I were a journalist) is his ability to give long-winded, really grammatically perfect answers, that in reality reveal very little about his personl life/thoughts. That’s brilliant and remarkable to do in this day and age..I would love to learn to deflect like that! 😛
he is like a more eloquent and eager-to-speak version of Keanu Reeves in interviews lol.gives very little away…Plus for me, Tom has an infinitely better voice…
And all 3 siblings went to Oxbridge schools? wow ! Did not know that…that does represent academic ability and brains.
Impressive! any parent who finds the means and wants to give their children the education they deserve should be commended. Any child who actually takes his/her schoolwork seriously and not brush it off bc mummy and daddy gave it to them should also be commended. I feel people are misdirecting their anger at a very unfair system.
How long do you think the shelves would stay up p’enny? 🙂
@spidey
If he was putting them up, Diet Coke advert style, a few minutes max because I would not let him finish,,,,,
Re Tom not acknowledging his privilege:.
“‘I’ve been blessed with an extraordinary education. I feel privileged and I know I’ve had an enormously pleasant life. But it also has its complexity. I’d love to round out the rosy picture with some shade that would give you some more detail, but it’s not my past. I feel like baring that in public would be ungracious.
from:
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/faking-bad-meet-hollywoods-nicest-villain-tom-hiddleston-8886197.html
It always annoys me when people want Tom to check his privilege, and he does! and he also works with schools and charities. I mean…what more do people want?
Guilt. About something over which he had not control.
As far as the acting profession is concerned another drawback nowadays which rarely gets mentioned is that in the old days (of my youth) a lot of actors started off in provincial repertory theatres learning their craft. But those barely exist any more – probably to do with cinema and television.
People may say they don’t want him to admit guilt, but in a maelstrom of words in loop, the yielding is thus: They want him to feel bad about his privilege and know his place.
He’s gotten pretty big, hasn’t he? Because now people want him to prostrate himself. Never mind if he creates fascinating art, and probably would have regardless of class background (he’s driven, smart, sociable and talented)
I think you’ve quoted rather selectively. Just before that he says:
“‘So once you’ve seen that, someone who’s come from nothing, trying their hardest to give their child the best education, and then you get out the other side and everyone throws fruit at you…”
So basically he’s feeling sorry for himself, especially when he insists on telling us there is ‘shade’ in his life (as there is in everyone’s life). To read this, you’d think his family somehow struggled to send him to Eton (and Dragon School, and Cambridge). Yes, it’s true his father came from humble background, but he became extremely wealthy, and Tom’s mother’s line is listed in Burke’s Peerage. Nowhere is he acknowledging the basic unfairness of the system which pampers a select few like him, while leaving everyone else to fight it out for the scraps they don’t want.
He makes a good point though. No matter what he does, achieves or “didn’t deserve”, he just can’t win. I can’t speak for him feeling sorry for himself because I would be projecting feelings onto him without basis, but what I took away from that quote is different. To me, he is saying that he came from a background that is more humble and because through his father’s hard work, they became successful and could give their children the best advantages in life. And when they succeed, people still whine about their “privilege”. In this scenario, there really is no win.
“they became successful and could give their children the best advantages in life. ”
Right. Nothing to do with the fact that his mother’s family is listed in Burke’s Peerage? All just hard work? I don’t think so. He’s as posh as they come, but to read that interview, you’d think he was some salt of the earth type.
And I also disagree that he ‘just can’t win’. To me, that seems like an excuse. What if he said something like ”I’m not going to apologise for my background and I achieved success through my own hard work and talent, but I fully acknowledge that I got a headstart because of my education and family connections.” I think most people would consider that a reasonable answer, and he could henceforth refuse to answer any questions about his background. Certainly a lot better than these repeated attempts to fudge the issue and pretend that he didn’t benefit greatly from a system which is skewed against the vast majority of his fellow Brits. Nobody is blaming him for anything or asking him to feel guilt. But a simple acknowledgement of his immense privilege would be nice.
I’ll repeat the link where he does acknowledge his privilege.
.http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/faking-bad-meet-hollywoods-nicest-villain-tom-hiddleston-8886197.html
A few facts are in order. No matter what his father’s background may be, his mother is a Vestey, which one of the wealthiest, poshest, elite families in Britain.
There are a number of articles put there about the family and their wealth, one of whi h mentions that all members of the Vestey family receive 250 million Pou ds when they come of age to do whatever they want with.
This might explain how Tom wad able to pay for RADA with his own funds and also. buy a house in Kentish Town. I mean that *is* his own money.
And I begrudge him none of it. However if he truly cannot acknowledge that he comes from an unusual level of privilege and advantage, and on top of that has the temerity to feel sorry for himself (“fruit throwing”). I call him on that. I don’t need a one man revolution, but this just insults the intelligence of the reader. He is not even trying.
The same link that we’re actually discussing?
There really is no win. Even if he came up with the “perfect” answer. Because then it would be, well that was a perfectly crafted PR answer coming from someone of privilege. Or, well, he now knows he’s privileged, what is he going to do about it? And then he does some political ranting for the underclasses and then it’s, oh that’s fine, but why isn’t he putting his money where his mouth is? And then he gives a bunch of money, and then it’s noblesse oblige.
It’s simply a giant rabbit hole that he refuses to go down, and I dont blame him one bit.
“It’s simply a giant rabbit hole that he refuses to go down, and I dont blame him one bit. ”
Actually, I’d respect him more if he did refuse to talk about it. But he doesn’t. He just gives evasive, wishy-washy ‘answers’ which don’t address the issue at all, probably because I suspect at heart he believes there isn’t actually an issue to be addressed. He could simply refuse to answer questions about his background – lots of celebs have ‘no-go areas’ which journalists have no choice but to respect. But he doesn’t, so therefore he can’t complain when people scrutinise his (non) answers.
That is totally not how I read it at all. But I appreciate that you have made your mind up about him.
Miss Jupitero – I work with numbers and the ones you quoted fascinate me. Do you have any link to read more details about this 250 mil for each :O family member theory?
A quick google search shows Vestey Group Net Worth. = £48.1m (is it so low beacuse of those 250 m pocket money to eveyrbody 😛 ?)
Tom Hiddleston Net Worth. £8 m :O
And Toms mother’s mother was a Vestey so I highly doubt the 250 m figure. And Tom’s father is a self-made very successful man, which is impressive and then in tun he and his wife provided the best education according to them to their kids…nthing wrong with that sentiment 🙂
@ Miss Jupitero – Tom’s mother was not a Vestey – her mother was and she married someone who served in and was invalided out of the navy in WWII who then worked as the general manager at the Aldeburgh Festival. I don’t know what Tom’s net worth is but having seen that figure quoted on a certain website I wouldn’t put that much faith in the figure – either way. He may be worth more I don’t know or care. The Vestey ancestor with the money was about 4 generations back.
Whatever, I think Tom is more concerned with not publicly criticising his parents’ decisions and their backgrounds than not upsetting people he doesn’t know who post on some random website. And I respect him for that.
@Estheralda, not sure how many interviews you’ve read (I’ve read many :P) he did just that and now just seems quite over it:
http://www.timeout.com/london/film/tom-hiddleston-interview-im-just-not-cool-enough
He’s said in many interviews over the years that because his father accumulated wealth, he was able to attend Eton and Cambridge (academic achievements aside). As to his mother’s side, he never talks about that. Maybe a journalist who’s more keen on not repeating certain topical points ad nauseum and should delve further on the topic. If he refuses to answer, while it’s his right to, then it’s fair to make a judgement on his privilege, imo (if people don’t agree with me, fair enough).
“He just gives evasive, wishy-washy ‘answers’ which don’t address the issue at all, probably because I suspect at heart he believes there isn’t actually an issue to be addressed.”
I actually think the opposite. He sees the issue but doesn’t know of a solution to offer.
“lots of celebs have ‘no-go areas’ which journalists have no choice but to respect. But he doesn’t, so therefore he can’t complain when people scrutinise his (non) answers.”
Very valid point
@SloaneY, pretty much.
Actually, he said there was NO shade in his life. And again, I really do not understand why this “mea culpa for being posh” is so necessary. Especially as it would not solve anything or change any institution or practice.
Also, he really does not have the clout to tell journalists that whole areas are off limits. They’ll just write what they want in that case.
To be more exact, his grandmother was a Vesty, haha. She was the 2nd daughter of the 3rd son of Sir Vesty, 1st Baronet. His grandfather was a solidier when he was young. I don’t know how rich his grandfather, Lieutenant Serveas was. His obituary reads like that he was more or less well connected but not tremendously successful in his business after the WWII.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/obituary-bill-servaes-1072626.html
TH is born rich surely. But I do think it will be difficult to figure out exactly how rich his family was. Speculations are harmeless, though, in a gossip site.
Spidey, he is part of a the direct line in the Vestey family– through his mother of course. Were it through his father, then his name could actually be Vestey, but I think this is beside the point. He’s a Vestey.
And his family is by any definition a very, very wealthy. Do I know his networth for a fact? of course I don’t. But the evidence is there. He has had more than one significant leg up in life, and it would be refreshing to hear that acknowledged and owned without defensiveness. He is capable.
I think we are splitting hairs at this point.
Nice obit for his grandfather btw! That sounds like idyllic and illustrious life!
@Miss Jupiter–
Actually, he’s NOT direct line from the Vestey baronetcy. He’s something like third cousins once removed from the present Lord. Only the direct descendant line gets the 250,000 £, and that was set up as a tax avoidance scheme. There are at least a hundred third cousins (I was sick at home one day, and bored, but I stopped tracking after I hit a hundred) and they are not all “posh, wealthy Vesteys”. Not everyone listed on peerage.com is automatically wealthy.
If one went by that, I’d be posh. I’m third cousin to several very wealthy direct descendants of Constitutional signers–but they have no idea I exist.
He’s not a direct descent under British rules, the baroncy goes via the male line, he is three generations off, two female. The current vested family, who own the big estate and business are not his side. The baron he descends from runs different less affluent estate and they run a motoracing festival. Since the Hiddleston were not part of the big vested society wedding of two years ago. I really don’t think they apart of that family.
The inheritance was a tax avoidance scheme at the time, and was before the company crash of the 1970,s where the rich side, of which he not part of would have had to limit that promise, if it was not even scratched to immediate descendants of the business
I did not say he was in direct line for the baronetcy. He is a a Vestey descendant through his mother. (Where did you get the info about the 250K being limited to the branch of the family connected to the baronetcy? That was not what I read.)
And agree this is all speculation. Does inclusion in the peerage mean you are wealthy? No of course not. I know someone who is distantly related to the Queen Mother and who went to the royal wedding of Charles and Diana who is anything but wealthy. He is a retired librarian in Boston.
But please: are you really trying to suggest that Hiddleston is not from a wealthy and well-connected family? I think it is pretty obvious and well known.
Again though, this is hair splitting.
The obit paints a very middle-class, or upper-middle at best, picture to me – I didn’t see much evidence of a vast Vestey windfall anywhere.
I don’t know the details of the Vestey money, but I am acquainted with someone from a family that made a sizable fortune during the early part of the 20th century. Said fortune has been so diminished by being divided among an ever-increasing number of children, grand-children and oodles of cousins that there is almost nothing left. None of them are living a life of leisure, they all have to work to put a roof over their heads. There are a few nice pieces of furniture to put under that roof, but it doesn’t go much beyond that.
p.s. Tom’s grandfather sounds like he was a charming man. Not at all the posh, elitist snob you might easily expect an opera festival director to be.
Couldn’t agree more on that, Dara– I was about to add that, judging by the bio, I can see where he may have gotten his charm.
In one place we have 250 million pounds being cited and then it is 250k, not the same.
If I type 250 million, that was definitely a typo. Apologies! I may have written “quarter of a million” then did a half assed revision on my phone.
Hiddleston is definitely from a wealthy and connected family, I am just saying that I don’t think he was in receipt of the Vestey Trust money.
From what I’ve read, the Vestey family consider their heirs, to be direct via sons first line only. i got that from a daily mail article talking about th wealthy heirs of Vestey family when one was a murderer another a socialite in trouble 😝
Tom’s Dad on other hand, is reportedly made a mint from an invention and company start up in partnership with Oxford University.
I am also going to read being the lines, when your rear his grandfather’s obit in the telegraph, an ex admiral that helped to start the Aldeburgh festival, and talked about needing a job to support his family. If his wife, Patricia Vestey had tons of money would that be the case?
I can understand why Tom wouldnt be happy about the posh actor/Eton soundbit. It almost sound like “you dont deserve your success” …
It’s starting to sound nothing short of envy at this point. He has what many others don’t so he has to somehow humble himself to appease the masses, when it’s all really misdirected grumbling at a very biased, systematic problem that favors the privileged over meritocracy. And even so, let’s discredit the hard work he’s put into everything because his parents have money and gave him the best accommodations.
You get the common sense award this week jammy. 🙂 I’ve been thinking that whilst reading through the posts today.
jammypants – Yours is the best post! It really does sound like projected sour grapes or misdirected criticism.
I agree with spidey – you win the common sense award. 🙂
Thank you, I try to inject some sense as much as I can to balance things a bit 🙂
So true. So true.
It really is starting to sound like that isn’t it?
Elitism, privilege and access to education are all important topics, but trying to examine those issues through the prism of posh actors feels pointless. Acting, and the arts in general, seem like one of the few professions where talent will get you further than attending an elite school. No actor is going to get hired if they can’t act – no matter which school they went to. I think that is the point Tom is trying to make when he lists off all his successful peers who didn’t attend those schools – and I wonder how many times he lost a job to someone who didn’t have Eton, Oxbridge or RADA on their resume.
I remember he said he used to keep a diary with records of the auditions he went to but it got too depressing.
Let me make a guess. When will they cease to ask Hiddles that question? When he doesn’t work more? When the British class system finally cease to exist? Hiddles being posh, what a surprise. It’s not newsworthy anymore.
I dont’ particularly like his way of speaking when it comes to politics, and I would be thrilled if he happens to make a wonderful statement about the education, class, etc.. But I found it very difficult for him to do otherwise. There might be alternative answers you can think of but I am pretty sure those may not satisfy other people still. His answers might not be the most bold, revolutionary, but they are the answers he can honestly make. And it is partly his personality. He will be like that even after he gets Oscars, Olivier, or whatever.
I think people still aren’t coming to grips with the fact that this is his personality and views, and it’s not going to change for anyone. Like people are still finding it hard to swallow that he is twee and mention it in every post. He was twee back then and he is still twee now. But let’s mention the GN impressions in every other post.
To paraphrase the critical side: Admit that you, and your friends, cheated from birth. We don’t care if you use your current position to help the less privileged. We’ve seen you dance for us, we’re dissatisfied, now crawl.
I understand why he doesn’t read about himself online. And I recall those town meetings in Mao’s China where the educated bourgeoisie were pressured into publicly expressing shame and guilt for their greed and the wickedness of their class. More hysteria, plus punching and screaming, same sentiment. Pointing fingers really is a useless distraction that only creates ill will – and it doesn’t change anything.
Eh, I like Domhnall very much and think he deserves all the roles he is getting, but to pick the son of Brendan Gleeson to make an argument that any average joe can make it in the movie industries just because he didn’t go to Eton really says it all.
Also, Fassbender started working in his parent’s restaurant as a teen an kept working multiple odd jobs all through drama school and until his late twenties, when he was lucky enough to team up with Steve McQueen right before the big credit crunch. That’s why they don’t bother him with these kind of questions.
Plus you really have to wonder how much quicker guys like him and Elba could have made it, had it not been that half of their time and energy was devoted to mundane activities such as paying the rent.
Keeping it light and frivolous, as he seems to prefer … is there any concern about the hairline here?
I wasn’t concentrating on the hairline to be honest. 😉
It’s going north! 😛 but I still like him.
Same old, same old.
*Yawn*
Nobody in their right mind would choose Tom Hiddleston over Olivia Coleman, she is a treasure.
Sorry good as she is, she is just not my type! 🙂
One thing that seems to be forgotten throughout this rather heated thread – whatever you think of the interview, how honest he was, how honestly the journalist reported, one thing we should remember is that none of the people who we KNOW have actually worked with him has got a bad word to say about him. They all say how nice, kind, well mannered, hard working he is. That says more to me than any rehash of an article in a newspaper.
As heated as the discussions are in this post, I find it a lot more interesting and stimulating than the many other THEO topics
And that includes Julie Walters, who has been very vocal about the inequities. Julie adores him.
Absolutely @spidey. I’ve never seen any evidence that he isn’t a wonderful guy overall. I think he could have handled that line of questioning better, but that’s a small flaw in a world where other public figures are going on Twitter rampages about cashiers who don’t speak English, or braying that all Asians are racists.
But as Kevin Hart said when the lovely Olivia was doing her thing …”You’re goooooodddd …”
The thing I always come away with during these discussions is just how much we all seem to overestimate the importance of actors (something it seems most actors do, as well!). Everyone seems so concerned with diversity in acting (which is a worthy cause), but as long as the writers, directors and producers come from privilege and lack diversity, the stories they choose to tell will lack the sort of truth that will ultimately bring change. An actor is primarily a technician — some more gifted than others, obviously. But narrative creators wield the real power.
ETA: Just realized as I pressed “Reply” that representation is important…but I still maintain that if the characters lack the necessary insight and truth, it doesn’t really matter who’s playing them.
i totally agree, the celebrity culture has reached a ridiculous level.
Celebrities are these days more important than surgeons, firefighters, policemen, judges, lawyers, nurses, cleaners, economists, scientists, physicists, biologists, teachers….
I think only politicians can barely get a word in the media alongside these oh so relevant actors and singers….
I think Graham would love to have Tom back. He was a great guest and Graham seemed to find him very amusing and interesting. You know when Graham really isn’t overly impressed.
People who were at the taping said Graham egged him on and nagged him to do the impressions, but editing has the last laugh. Plus evidently a lot of other cool stuff was edited out.
I had read that too.
Before I leave, I would like to say, in the original article I love the moments when he talks about his elder sister and niece. I haven’t seen her picture, but I can vividly imagine his grin when he mockingly and proudly describes his sister as “the most sensible” because she is a journalist. And I feel happy for him he could spend time with his niece in these terribly busy years.
Women can’t attend Eton, so its kind of pointless rattling of names of female actresses.
Elba has stated that he couldn’t get jobs in the Uk and had to move to the US. Only when he landed the wire did the UK/ BBC start paying attention. Tom was cast in big roles straight out of drama school. Its not that he doesnt deserve to be successful but he is kidding himself if he thinks he didn’t have a massive advantage.
A friend of mine works in a film production company here in London and every single person bar him is an oxbridge graduate. This is why its going to be easier for an oxbridge graduate.
But Idris Alba’s actual break was courtsey UK- more specifically the Prince’s Trust. And this I learnt through this past week’s ‘Oscar so white’ debates. The Wire and Luther …all came later.
Idris -“The Prince’s Trust subsidised one of my first jobs with the National Music Youth Theatre. They gave me £1,500, because my parents didn’t have enough money.”
Source: http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/celeb-life/idris-elba-praises-good-old-prince-charles-for-helping-him-get-his-big-break-376853.html
The national youth theatre is an acting course for kids, he is talking about how the princes trust funded his training with them. Its not an actual professional job, and he would have been between the ages of 10 and 21 when he attended that course.
Idris couldn’t find classy, sustainable work in the UK ( he said so himself), and he had to go america. The lead in Luther wouldn’t have happened without HBOs the Wire. So in that respect he had to get recognition stateside before the UK took note.
I don’t know if you are british but its very evident when you watch a lot of british tv and specifically BBC, that as good as it is, it caters to the middle classes, hence actors like Idris have a tougher time getting leads then the likes of Hiddleston, that is unless they are in the soaps, eastenders etc.
It could be argued that Tom got his recognition in the US through Marvel.
Leah – The point is the training helped him and gave him the direction to pursue the field he wanted rather than forever working in the car factory. The funding is important because he clearly said he was among the very few black kids there as most couldnot afford it. So just like Tom’s parents paid the fee to Eton, Idris benefitted from the funding (Deservingly no doubt).
He also worked a lot in UK theatre. And most actors go to Hollywood not just because of not finding ‘classy’ work in their home country but simply because breaking into the US is the ultimate litmus test for most actors/musicians…
And the television in uK has been very diverse for a long time, what with shows with Indians, Pakistanis, black actors etc as compared to US. It is now with amc/hbo/netflix that TV is so awesome in US as well with a diversity of shows. But it really s an unpredictable field of work and even if one can ‘afford’ to go to US there is no guarantee that they will be successful.
Also your statement ‘Tom was cast in big roles straight out of drama school. ‘is offensive because Tom was working throughout college at Cambridge and until Marvel happened for him he wasn’t (And still isnt) a big name star.
Spidey – well said 🙂 Marvel – idris too is a part of Thor movies
The princes trust gave him an opportunity to explore his acting talent at a young age. Idris is a trustee on the board of the national music youth theatre and a supporter of the princes trust. Hes been very vocal in promoting both, both organisations are doing a fine job giving young people a start but they don’t provide paid jobs as you suggested. The fees at eton or cambridge can not be compared to the fees at national musical youth theatre, its peanuts compared to what toms parents would have paid in school fees over the years, so thats not really comparable.
I think we are sidestepping the real issue if we wish to pretend the journey is the same for a posh white boy and a working class black boy.Even if we admire tom we should be able to recognise this. Its not toms fault, its the system thats at fault.
Many black actors go to drama school, they get excellent training, that doesnt mean they are able to make a sustainable career out of it. There are simply less jobs for black actors.
Heres what Idris himself says, he himself says he wasn’t getting the parts, this is why we went stateside.
“Elba said the roles available to him in the U.K. paled in comparison to the ones in the U.S., where he worked as a young actor. Had he stayed, Elba said, he would have been stuck playing “cop sidekick parts” and “best friends.” “I went to America because I was running out of parts,” he said. “
http://time.com/4184830/idris-elba-diversity-tv-film-oscars/
Sidenote: tom was in various BBC things including Wallander shortly after drama school, Wallander had Branagh as the lead and Branagh was the one that cast tom in thor which led to his international break through so its fair to say his british career trajectory lead to his international break through.
Leah – I just pointed that Idris got an opprotunity through the funding which he otherwise would not have been able to attend. I never compared the fee at Eton, that would be silly, just that the main article talks about Eton.
Also when you say “There are simply less jobs for black actors.” I agree and that is the case in Hollywood too. Its great that Idris tried and succeeded.
Financial wealth matters in any career, for any person of whatever color,caste, creed. However success as an actor/artist cannot be guaranteed.
Now enough Idris discussion on a Tom-article 🙂 xx
@MrsDragon The Princes Trust is a charity though so I’m sorry it’s not really comparable. That’s really the point: a working class black actor had charitable support because his family couldn’t afford the fee, Tom didn’t need to do that.
Becky- I am aware..the oiginal comment was because Idris; entire success was contributed to the US ..I would rather contribute it to his own talent..but his foundation through the training I am sure helped too. And I see nothing wrong in availing funding or scholarship – why not? And if someone’s parents can afford to pay the fee- then also, why not?
For Tom- Success was not overnight either, here is a really well written piece:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/10561842/Tom-Hiddleston-interview-from-Thor-to-a-sell-out-Coriolanus.html “His career had a few false starts. Fresh from Rada in 2005, he was cast in Unrelated, a British independent film directed by Joanna Hogg. **Despite being a critical success, it failed to get Hiddleston noticed immediately and he had to endure the young actor’s obligatory round of rejections.**
It wasn’t until Michael Grandage cast him in Othello at the Donmar in 2007 that Hiddleston’s ascent really began. Watching the dress rehearsal was Kenneth Branagh, who was sufficiently impressed to cast Hiddleston as Christian in a Radio 3 production of Cyrano de Bergerac.The following year Hiddleston teamed up again with Branagh, this time playing his sidekick in the BBC detective series Wallander. “
Was Related a big role?
nah, plus it was filmed on a handheld camcorder.
The way he answered the question about how so many successful actors went to Eton made me laughed. He gave two Irish guys (former state school students) and two women as a valid example of actors who are not Old Etonians. Come on Tom, you know very well what the reporter was trying to say.
Well the “privilege” in question here is the “Old boys club” that forms at Eton, people there give each other access and breaks and opportunities just because they know one another from rugby or debate or parties. For all we know, Tom may or may not have benefitted from that web of favourable connections. His parents were pretty middle class compared to, say, Benedict Cumberbatch’s. So Tom should not feel personally under fire, because it’s not like he is a talentless plank who gets by on favours and shady backstage trade-offs. He seems to have the being grateful for things and being enthusiastic down pat, so I think he doesn’t understand yet that people can be privileged without being poo about it. He can recognize that he’s in a position of privilege and use it to help others, which seems in alignment with Tom’s values. If he were not the Tom we know and love, he’d just duck, reap his unearned benefits and condescendingly laugh at the struggling plebs beneath him.
Now that we have raked Tom thoroughly for not solving all the world’s problems by admitting he grew up posh and explored his family tree; can we theorize as to why Graham Greene was brought into that conversation? For that is what fascinates me the most. And if he told that dimwit biceps-ogling, twitter clueless reporter that he is exploring working on something Graham Greene related and she didn’t follow through, well, no more free drinks for her!
These threads do make me laugh, sometimes! I’m sure his family history would make for a fascinating Who Do You Think You Are, but the idea that any actual money passed down to the grandson of the second daughter of a third son…..
I would guess that the Greene discussion was a compare-and-contrast with Le Carre. He does like to do his background reading – he did an English undergrad module’s worth of reading for Crimson Peak. I’m interested in what he had to say about Platonic philosophy – it must have been something to do with authenticity/reality, don’t you think?
Possibly. But then again, he was a classics major so he could have been discussing Plato’s view of the weather for all we know, or for all the dimwit biceps ogler would understand.
The dimwit biceps ogler has her own double-first from Cambridge (History), so I imagine she could hold her own in a conversation. Why she felt the need to write the piece as if she were a giddy fangirl is beyond me.
Actually, the more I think on it, the more disingenuous it is for her to not mention that particular fact – especially since she made such a fuss over Tom’s academic background, both in winning the Twitter “argument” and the tiresome posh actor line of questioning.
A giddy, argumentative fangirl with a grudge of some sort. Not saying that an interviewer shouldn’t take a subject to task on an issue but, if she herself is to be believed about her line of questioning, she didn’t broach the subject in the best way for a full discussion and she left a great deal of whatever the conversation was on her recording device.
“that dimwit biceps-ogling, twitter clueless reporter ”
🙂 🙂 🙂
@Lilac My guess is he read ‘The Quiet American’ as part of his prep for Skull Island. He read Michael Herr’s ‘Dispatches’, as well.
Interesting. I’ve long thought that he might have prepped for Skull Island by working at the gorilla area of the London Zoo.
@ Lilac – I first read that as working AS a gorilla. 🙂
Well, Spidey, that is possible too.
@ lilac @ spidey
Jordan Vogt-Roberts did post some pictures from the San Diego zoo on Instagram, so anything’s possible. 😉 Maybe he stopped by in the middle of a run.
Batman v Superman is coming out in the US the same weekend as ISTL.
Wish more about The Night Manager was in the interview. Oh well, more to come from TH as soon as Skull Island wraps. We won’t have to chew on this one interview anymore.
Maybe TH paid the bill to get the hell outta there (and because he is a gentleman).
He was spotted at a recording studio in LA, so we may get stuff sooner than later.
i really enjoy watching him and he’s so easy on the eyes too. I love the way he speaks so articulate without being word salady.
This is slightly better than thing he’s said before on class yet still meh.
No one expects him to solve the class problems in the UK. But rattling off names of people who are successful actors who didn’t go to Eton is the wrong way to go, as it’s hand-waving the issue away.
@Leah, Tom’s part in Wallander was ‘cop sidekick’, it’s exactly the sort of part Idris was complaining about! Also, he didn’t get it until 2008, and he left drama school in 2005. He got Unrelated straight out of drama school but it didn’t actually get released until 2007, and on a very limited release.
There’s no doubt that he was scrabbling around for parts for a few years there – pre-Wallander the steadiest job he had was a couple of 6 month tours with Cheek By Jowl, which were not exactly high profile.
And I guess that when he did the Chekov with Branagh it was because Branagh knew he could act and was fine to work with, which followed on to Loki.
Ironically Branagh is local comprehensive and no university.
Actually that was a coincidence – Ivanov was directed by Michael Grandage, not by Ken Branagh. Grandage directed him in Othello and cast him in Ivanov off the back of a reading that cast did of Stoppard’s early Ivanov draft, he has said because he discovered during Othello how versatile he is and because he enjoyed working with him.
Branagh’s response to his casting was more or less ‘You again!’ Apparently they bonded a lot more during Ivanov than during that first series of Wallander – I don’t think Ken hung out with the Wallander cast all that much.
What I meant was the Tom acted with Branagh twice which would give Ken enough insight into Tom’s ability and character to recommend him to Marvel.
Yes, of course, my point was that it’s not the first time that has happened! Declan Donellan wanted him back (and playing a bigger part) for a second Cheek By Jowl tour, and Michael Grandage wanted him back for Ivanov after Othello, too.
I reckon he must have been pretty bad at auditions – most of his jobs seems to have come from people seeing his work or working with him directly. Branagh saw him in Othello before he was cast in Wallander.
Watch this interview that Tom did last year during TIFF. He talked a little bit about auditions,
start at 5: 10.
youtube.com/watch?v=n2SenVVxo8Q
Thanks for that Allegra.
@ KTE Well they must be pretty nerve racking, and some people are better at dealing with that than others.
No doubt. I also think it’s evidence that he didn’t have the easy ride some people seem to think he did.
Agreed, obviously he didn’t have to worry about rent and food in the way the other actors had to, which meant he could keep trying rather than giving up, which he has acknowledged, but I think he got his part on merit rather than network.
After reading all the comments upthread, I only have two things to say:
1st – Why does he have to “apologize” for his background, yeah, sure.. He was lucky and went to Eton and Cambridge and the Rada, but, no matter how much money you have, you still have to study, work hard and be a student to graduate from all those places;
2nd – I keep reading comments on “what do the actors know abou such important themes (race, social inequalities, human rights)? I wish they wouldn’t express their posh, priviledge white opinions, because I don’t care, etc, etc, etc.. And now everyone wants to know what he actually thinks? Ok…
You are competing with jammypants for this threads common sense post prize.
Thank you @spidey!! 😀
I just read that Damian Lewis is scheduled to do something at a comprehensive school but there’s a petition to disinvite him because he attended Eton and his level of privilege, based on that alone, does not reflect the values the comprehensive school represents. I’m not downplaying the serious class problems in GB but there does seem to be a lot of guilt by association and I don’t see what could be accomplished by holding people accountable for where their parents sent them to school if they aren’t in a position to change the status quo. And I say this as the granddaughter of a working class couple who left Liverpool because there was no opportunity for them. Now, disinviting Parliament members and business leaders, I can understand. But every country approaches problems in its own way
Even then you might disinvite a member of parliament member because of his/her policies, but because of where they went to school? 😕
Yes, I saw that! To be fair the petition only had a hundred signatures, which is not a lot really, but it does demonstrate that some people’s attitude is more about ‘throwing fruit’ at people than working for actual constructive change!
Yes, it would be far better to have a school alumni who is just as successful do it, but what if none of them can make that night?
I bet they want the current wealthy local residents to put their hands in their pockets and donate a few quid to the school fund.
This is a prime example of what Tom meant about the subject just becomes divisive. It’s not that he’s denying his privilege or how he’s benefited from it. But just being from privilege period sullies anything you do or say in the eyes of reactionaries that are intent on broadly marking, at all levels, the line between us and them, the haves and have nots. Which is by definition the meaning of divisive.
Maybe Tom’s right to be defensive. This issue is getting even uglier in the UK. As an American I admire the Brits for their class consciousness and wish we had more recognition of it in US cultural discourse. It’s only now starting to happen a bit on a mainstream level thanks to Berny Sanders and the decline of the middle class and the economy. But I don’t admire the nasty, unchecked lashing out at any and all individuals just based on privilege alone. As someone said up thread, it doesn’t really help the cause. It’s just divisive on a very broad, cultural level on an issue that’s going to take a lot of cooperation and coming together to accomplish real change.
I know it’s an epic battle, which is all the more reason to make sure public anger is utilized effectively and directed at people, policies and institutions that will give real results.