Here are some assorted photos of Emma Thompson at the Berlin Film Festival over the past several days. She was at the Berlinale to promote her latest film, Alone in Berlin, and to co-host the Berlinale tribute to the late Alan Rickman, her dear friend. Emma is fabulous, as always, and I was looking for a reason to post some photos of her, and that’s when I came across some comments she made at a press conference at the Berlinale. She was being asked about the upcoming referendum vote in Great Britain about remaining in the European Union. And she said many (funny) words.
How she describes Britain: “A tiny little cloud-bolted, rainy corner of sort-of Europe, a cake-filled misery-laden grey old island.”
Should Britain remain in the EU? “We should be taking down borders, not putting them up. I feel European even though I live in Great Britain, and in Scotland as well. So of course I’m going to vote to stay in Europe. Are you kidding? Oh my God, of course. It would be madness not to. It’s a crazy idea not to.”
The Sun has a collection of reactions from British MPs, mostly Tories, most of whom are completely outraged by what she said. One Tory even threatened to “spank” her as punishment, which… my God. All that just because she called Britain a “cake-filled misery-laden grey old island.” Which, no offense, is what many people think of Britain, whether they’re British or not.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
She is a joy, and as a Brit I both co-sign what she said and also feel immensely patriotic right now. If you’ll excuse me, I need to go and eat cake and grouse about the weather.
I loved the “sort-of Europe” bit. That is SO accurate. My cup is half full today so I believe myself to be an incorrect Britisher. I’m bound to rectify tomorrow!
In the meantime, have some cake!
Have you any lemon drizzle?
Yes, of course!
In which case, I’m in. Can supply clotted cream.
Give me the clotted cream and a case of Hob Nobs and no one gets hurt!
Sunshine and late spring weather for 14 days in a row here. Giddily optimistic too. Coincidence??
@Nutballs — Hob Nobs are divine!
Well I am in Devon right now and when I look out of my window there is blue sky, puffy white clouds and ridiculously green lushness as far as the eye can see. Of course yesterday it p***ed all day, but that is why it is so green.
Also in Devon, Jellybean. 700ft up in the Blackdown Hills. Beautiful sunshine! I think she was just giving a metaphor for the stereotypical British pessimism and obsession with weather, rather than meaning we are actually grey.
It’s gorgeous here in Leicestershire too. And it must be nearly spring because the blackbirds are making sounds like the shower scene from Psycho outside, damn their eyes.
I’m not going to lie though. Blasted rain drowned half my cauliflowers this winter. AND I slipped on black ice. There. Glass half empty again. I’m back to being properly British!
Sixer, I know them there hills well, but I am in the west, were you can look out of your window and see free range pasties (pronounced paaahsties) roaming the hillside.
Jealous of all of you😡😡
I’m in North Vancouver, BC Canada and truth tell, you are describing our weather to a ‘T’! Gorgeous sunshine, spring weather on Monday, downpour Tues, Wed, gray and foggy today (Thurs). My daffodils are up, my snowdrops are up, everything is starting to burst….allergens arise! LOL glass 1/2 full.
Hey!! Those are a few of my favorite things!! Cake? Yes. Rainy days? Yes. Scotland? Hell yes. I’m still sad about Alan Rickman. I can’t imagine how she feels.
I want to go to Scotland so badly. Sigh.
Meeee toooo!
I stopped reading after “cake-filled” and started salivating. A country filled with cake – tiny cakes, big cakes, chocolate cakes – is where I want to live.
LOL< yes.
When I last went to Britain, I dieted before I went so I could run roughshod over British bakeries and sweet shops!
She needs to add pie to her description. Bramley apple pie and custard.
I too still grieve for Alan, glad Emma is honoring him at awards ceremonies and hosting the tribute at the Berlinale. God bless her
Cake! A cake thread! On the same day as a puppy thread! So much more joy than the endless Kanye Kardashian drama.
Have you seen the video where she was asked about #OscarSoWhite? She basically said the voters are all old white folks and you have to wait them die or killed them all with thah british accent that makes all better.
Emma Thompson for Prime Minister <3
Emma Thompson for Everything.
And John Oliver for the head of the Department of International Comedy and Sexy Glasses Affairs.
@Amelia. Co-sign
She’s awesome. Her comments made the tabloids over the last few days, bringing a lot of xenophobes out the woodwork. How dare she express her opinion!
Lol, yes Emma for Prime Minister.
Of course, all her grand ideas she won’t have to abide by. She will just get the poor and middle class to bear the brunt of her great ideas, as always happens when people with bigger mouths than brains get into positions of power.
The reality is… she is rich enough to insure herself against the consequences of her proclamations. The rest of us? Not so much.
Like the letter signed by all the luvvies today saying that Cameron should let the Calais Jungle migrants into the UK. They are in France, a wealthy, free, Western, industrialised country. That is where they should claim asylum, if they have any right to it (they don’t). They have no right to be let into the UK.
As you say, it’s easy for the likes of Thompson and Cumberbatch to say such things. Their children are born at the Portland, not NHS hospitals. They go to private schools, not state schools. They live in wealthy areas where they’ll never see a migrant. I’m not saying we shouldn’t take any refugees, but it really doesn’t help, coming from people who will never have to see the consequences of doing so.
@ Tina
Sooo the Uk is not a wealthy, free, Western, industrialised country ?
I don’t understand your point. You don’t get to enter a country to claim asylum when you are in a safe country to begin with.
Simultaneously full of cake and misery. Seems impossible.
Why, Brits, have you voted for another 4 years of Tories and pig-fondling David Cameron I will never understand. What is the general sentiment? Do you think Britain could actually leave the EU?
Mr Sixer’s theory is that only the obnoxious among us bother to go out and vote. 24% of the actual electorate got the Tories a majority. Plus, you know, we only found out about the pig shagging AFTER.
Otherwise, I got nothing. Not my fault! I voted Green. Or perhaps it is my fault and I should have voted Labour? I might vote Labour next time, now the Blairites are in the cold.
I think we will vote to stay. But with little enthusiasm.
If the Brits don’t want to stay in the EU (and god knows they’ve been dragging their feet ever since they entered in 1973) they should leave. Honestly.
The don’t feel European, call Europe “the continent” as if they were not part of it, try to block every reform, only see the EU as a business market. I could go on.
I agree with Emma Thompson that its a crazy idea to leave the EU but if there’s not more enthusiasm what’s the point of staying?
Once the UK is on its own, British people will realize they are isolated. And they’ll beg to come back.
I can’t imagine why any of the other nations would even want us to stay, to be frank. We are the moany relative at Christmas who just won’t go home, aren’t we?
But it’s one of those things. We have a majority of people who could swing one way or the other and a minority of people who are as you describe. But that minority is loud, loud, loud, and they take up all the space so that they are the only voice anyone ever hears. Bit like American gun nuts. It’s most frustrating for the rest of us.
Oh my god Sixer. We’re the drunk racist uncle at Thanksgiving. Oh my god.
Embertine – we really are. Doesn’t it ever make you cringe and die a little inside?!
Myrto, I agree whole heartedly. Ever since they entered the EU the Brits have been mining its process. They have become a profesional obstacule to the european project so they should just leave. They’d probably be happier. I don’t understand the obsesion of keeping them on board. They don’t comply with migration agreements and in votings they are always getting in the way. So yeah, just leave, be happy by yourselves and Europe, let them be by themselves.
I grew up under Thatcher and if I ever vote Tory feel free to dig my heart out with a spoon.
Probably my fault, I voted Blue…! But there wasn’t anything else for it. You couldn’t vote Red because, well….after the ‘stone’ fiasco I knew they had lost the plot and voting Gold was a definite no-no!
I didn’t qualify to vote Yellow which is what I wanted to do because Sturgeon is fantastic and Scots are so lucky to have her! So after Cameron, looks like we will have Osborne facing off against Corbyn. Lord, I may never vote again!
Pig shagging, she asks interestedly?
I also like Sturgeon!
bluhare! I cannot believe #piggate passed you by! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggate
Voting to stay with little enthusiasm, and a lot of grumbling, sums us up to a t.
This thread is bringing out the blatant patriotism. We’ll all be ashamed at being so gauche if this carries on.
BritAfrica, I’m with you. I suspect that’s where the majority came from, we just couldn’t stomach Ed. And good Lord, Corbyn against Osborne, what a horrible thought. I’d prefer Boris or May to Osborne.
I love the way she talks and the way she can really hit the nail on the head with a thought, idea, expression, opinion anything really. She looks beautiful love her.
It is true thou and am a Scot. Love her , that’s all I have.
Love her and she looks stunning in that first picture. I love the U.S. (I know, I know, you don’t) but I could be very happy in England or France. Each is so beautiful in its own way.
Do we not love the US? *sadface* I’ve only ever been to New York, but I adored it, and there’s a ton of other places I want to visit. I know we Brits can be very snotty about Americans (and everyone else alas) but not all of us are xenophobes.
If London had any housing left, I could EASILY live there and be incredibly happy.
I went through a phase a few years ago where I seriously thought about moving there.
Ditto France, Paris in particular (I’m a city girl) but the French countryside is so stunning.
Dream, dream huh? 😉
I love the US, it’s a great country. Your politicians are just crazy, but lots of great countries have horrible politicians (France, Australia, Italy).
Ha! Reminds me of a favorite line in Hitxhcock’s The Lady Vanishes. Snowed in at a hotel somewhere in the Italian alps(?), when WWII was brewing, an English nanny mentions that the people in the village are lovely. Grouses an old Englishman: “wouldn’t know it by their politics.” Nanny replies: “I never think you should judge any country by their politics. After all, we English are quite honest by nature aren’t we?”
I would sell one of my arms to be British. I dreamed last night I moved there. I would go in a heartbeat.
Britain is going through a huge transition at the moment. It looks as if we are finally going to be able to leave the EU. For Americans out there wondering why this is a big issue – imagine if your country wanted to bring in laws that would make life better for American citizens and stop your taxes being sent abroad to people in other countries who have not paid a single penny into your tax system – now imagine if the only reason that law cant be brought in is because Romania or Poland say no. Britain no longer rules itself, it is ruled by the EU who have no respect for each countries individual needs. The EU operates under a one size fits all policy, which is not working. People with money, like Emma, don’t see how hard life is for the average British person. Employment, Schools, healthcare and general Britishness is all suffering thanks to EU legislation. Wealthy people live in a bubble, protected from all the struggles Britain is facing right now.
And they will continue to be protected if we leave the EU and our economy inevitably tanks. Just like the last recession, when the 1% got even wealthier and the rest of us lost out. Rich people will always bend the system to suit themselves, that won’t change just because we throw away the only political and economic influence that Britain has left.
A few of the Bignissues is that the EU is not transparent enough and it relys too heavily on the wealthy nations to bail out the poor ones who make no effort to sort themselves out, see Greece. It’s structure also hasn’t changed since its inception so it’s unable to adapt of change quickly. It can’t survive in its current form, too big a dinosaur with too many parasites sucking it dry. It’s also run by people who are themselves dinosaurs and have a chip on their shoulder about the UK, primarily down the the rabate we get and how healthy our economy is to he rest of Europes. The EU is in debt and can’t financially sustain itself, if the UK were to leave it would collapse as Germany can’t fund it on their own.
It’s needs to change itself or it will implode.
OK, your comment is so riddled with spelling errors I’m genuinely having difficulty understanding what you mean. People have a ‘chip on their shoulder about the UK, primarily down to the rabate we get’? Do you mean ‘rebate’? Please, genuinely, help me out here.
But, as someone dating someone ‘from the continent’ and travelling there frequently, people don’t resent the UK for our growing economy (which is the result of brutal public service gutting and some handy manipulation of figures by Gideon) or our ‘rabate’, whatever that is. They see the UK as arrogant and self-centred for supposing that we can pick and choose whatever we want from the EU just because we’re the UK and have an inflated opinion of our own importance.
Rachel, exactly!
Rachel: bonus points for use of “Gideon”!
@BETTI i agree with your comment, you made some great points which were perfectly clear to me . Most posters on Celebitchy don’t really focus on spelling thank God, or we would all be afraid to post.
Totally agree with you. I think the EU will be done in a year or so – the open border issue is killing it. Throw in a couple more terrorist attacks, and that’s about it. I wish Cameron was a stronger, more decisive leader.
Yes, the terrorist attacks, Greek bailout, migrant assimilation, etc. will kill the EU for sure. i’d kind of want out myself lol. Too much change too quickly maybe?
The only reason there are any restraints on the companies (and their Tory lobbyists) that are bleeding working people in the UK dry – while letting its infrastructure crumble – is EU law. The UK economy would be extremely damaged if it had to negotiate with the larger continental economy next to it over which it has no sway. I think it’s a huge waste that this is even going to referendum.
Not to mention that the US, China, India, would have no reason not to re-negotiate our extremely favourable trade agreements with them if we didn’t have a voice in Brussels anymore…
Sarah-Sweetie, it’s not just the EU! If you don’t go to vote for the European Parliament you can’t have any influence.
Beth – Sweetie……I have voted in every election since I was 18. General elections, European Parliament elections and local council elections. The problem is that even though people are voting, their voice is not being heard because the EU veto’s every common sense law our country tries to make legislation. We can all live in a fantasy land where everything is rosy in the garden, but those of us with any intelligence can see things need to change.
I think it’s an hilarious idea that the people of Britain would be better off being solely governed by a bunch of (white, male, cis) stuffed shirts in Westminster who all went to school together than we are with the EU having a say. But I’m sure that if we leave the EU, the rampant classism and nepotism will totally improve!
“Employment, Schools [sic], healthcare and general Britishness is all suffering thanks to EU legislation.”
For the first three; this is thanks to another 4 years of unrestrained Conservative rule, which is gutting public services across the country, making the poor even poorer and continually protecting the 1%. You can’t blame that on the EU. As for ‘general Britishness’, that’s almost as bad as the Tories’ continual promotion of ‘British values’, without being able to define what these values are. Or is that a tacit way of expressing concern that the EU permits freer immigration, and that less people in Britain now are ‘British’, according to your standards?
I’m with embertine – Britain is nowhere as huge as superpower as we would like to think, and there’s not been enough evidence to suggest our economy would survive on a global scale, particularly as we’re now passing out our infrastructure development to Chinese contracts rather than displaying any confidence in our own economy. The EU isn’t perfect, for sure, but it’s the only place where we have enough influence to ask for, discuss and negotiate UK-specific reform.
Why should we have to ask permission to make out country better for it citizens? That is where the problem is. Cameron came back from EU negotiations with his tail between his legs, even his own government called him out on it.
I notice you haven’t quibbled any of my points on your claim that aspects of British life are ‘suffering thanks to EU legislation’.
When we form part of a larger European bloc which is committed to improving the growth and development of Europe as a whole, to ensure peace, freedom and justice for all of its citizens, then of course we can’t just make up laws if they contradict the principles of the wider bloc. We’re also a part of NATO; we couldn’t just ask to be left out if France was attacked because that contradicts the principles of the wider organization for collective defense, even if we were in a position where defending France was against our own interests.
That being said, I don’t know where you get the impression that our parliament would be making laws that would improve the country for its citizens. One of the first things the Tories tried to implement once they took power was repealing the Human Rights Act, for Pete’s sake, they’re trying to bully junior doctors into accepting contracts which will ease the privatization of the NHS, and they’ve stuck their heads in the sand about various crises which have left 20-somethings needing to save £800 a month to have a pension in their 60s and unable to ever buy their own home.
Perhaps Sarah believed that story about the EU outlawing wonky bananas. 🙂
Wonky bananas….ha. I’m advocating common sense. I’m not a right wing Europe hating racist. I only want Britain to be able to govern itself and protect its borders, the same as Australia and Canada. The idea of the EU is great, but when its implemented it does not work. We have to allow murders from all over Europe into our country and we are not allowed to deport foreign criminals back to their own country because of the human rights laws. I’m not expecting or wanting a complete stop on immigration, but instead a points system like Australia. Skilled workers with something to offer are always welcome. But foreign murderers and criminals who have nothing to offer should never be allowed in. There are things I truly do like about being a member of the EU, but unfortunately the bad now outweighs the good.
The UK is not prevented from deporting foreign criminals, only that foreign criminals are able to appeal such a deportation under the Human Rights Act and the separate European Convention for Human Rights. And, surprisingly enough, a report by NAO in 2013 states that only 1 in 7 foreign criminals won their appeals. And, even more surprisingly, even the Tory MP in charge of replacing the Human Rights Act has said that the EU jurisprudence has no right to resist deportation of foreign criminals, and that it is our own – British-made! – Human Rights Act that gives this power to judges.
The only reason that anyone believes that foreign criminals are un-deportable is because in 2006 the Home Office realised they hadn’t even been trying to deport foreign criminals; these people hadn’t been fighting deportation under human rights laws at all, because no one had been trying to deport them at all. The Home Office just forgot about them, panicked, then created a new agency to deal with the deportation of foreign criminals, and pretended everyone beforehand had won the right to stay under human rights laws.
.
Rachel, the Human Rights Act 1998 codifies the European Convention on Human Rights. It’s not something Parliament came up with on its own. And I’m a Conservative who favours both keeping the Human Rights Act and staying in the EU, but I recognise that the anti-EU people have some good points to make.
The right to a family life has been abused by foreign criminals who we should be able to deport. And lots of European workers (over 2 million, at last count) have come. They’re good for the economy and work hard, but they also take up space in schools and hospitals and our over-stretched system of housing. There are ways of dealing with this and the government needs to spend more on addressing them, but let’s not pretend that everything EU is an unqualified success.
The HRA does indeed implement aspects of the EU convention into British law, but it wasn’t a legislative change imposed on us by the EU. The whole point was that it was too expensive and lengthy a process to appeal via the EU convention, and so domestic remedies in domestic legislation should be exhausted first before appealing to EU law. So what I said still stands; Sarah asserted that EU human rights laws were banning us from deporting foreign criminals. Not only is this not the case, but even in the case of a Brexit we would still have some form of HRA which would likely include appeals processes for foreign criminals under the right to a family, as the UN Declaration of Human Rights article 16, clause 3 maintains that society and the State has an obligation to protect the family unit. Unless we’re proposing to leave the UN now, too?
The right to a family life is upheld in court in the cases where it is relevant; again, as I cited above, only 1 in 7 appeals cases were upheld by British judges in 2013 according to British law. The only reason we are not able to deport the 1 in 7 is that our own laws recognise and offer protection in certain cases.
I never claimed that everything in the EU is an unqualified success, but I take issue with half-baked conflations of facts, propaganda and misinformation being spouted as fact.
Rachel, the UN Declaration on Human Rights is not a treaty. The European Convention on Human Rights is a treaty, to which all Council of Europe states are members. So, as long as we belong to the Council of Europe, we have to uphold the provisions of the convention. Now, what most people don’t know is that the Council of Europe is a separate body from the European Union so we will not necessarily escape the European Convention on Human Rights with a Brexit – we would have to leave the Council of Europe, too.
But if we did leave the Council of Europe, we would be free of that particular obligation and would be able to change our laws, including the HRA. Most of the countries that signed the UN Declaration (i.e. the US, Canada etc) don’t keep foreign criminals in their countries because of their right to a family life. One of the reasons that many Conservatives oppose the HRA and want a British Bill of Rights is so that such a right is not protected in UK law, as it is now (under the HRA). If the HRA was no longer there, our own laws would not recognise and offer protection in any such cases.
The UN Declaration isn’t legally binding in UK courts, but we have agreed to abide by it, and organizations like Amnesty and Liberty would – and are – kicking up a fuss about the supposed ‘British Bill of Rights’ which would curb the right to family, in many instances, and many other rights.
This legislation for the replacement for the HRA is being rushed through parliament at a horrendous speed and risks leaving many people vulnerable to losing their right to challenge. The new bill will apparently limit the remedies available to complainants against the UK government – although of course the government will not state by how much – and make it impossible to take British military personnel to court for actions committed overseas. Whilst we would remain part of the EU Convention and decisions can be appealed in the European Court of Human Rights, this is a lengthy and expensive process for complainants. Plus, if we leave the Council, then complainants will be unable to appeal judgements at all; the family of an Iraqi receptionist, Baha Mousa, who was beaten to death by British soldiers would be unable to appeal for justice to stop a similar travesty reoccuring.
Human rights are human rights, and they are universal; if we pick and mix what we like to match our own ‘British values’, then who are we to dispute the criminalization of homosexuality in Iran, for instance? Surely they are just implementing their own human rights, according to Iranian values?
Human rights are not only for the people we like and have sympathy for. If a foreign criminal faces deportation and appeals to the right to family, and has a worthy claim that deportation would contravene his and their human rights, then we must respect that and trust in our legal system to filter out the justified and the unjustified cases; the European Court ruled against UK courts in cases of deportation in precisely 0.3% of cases in 2013, and only 1 in 7 foreign criminals won their appeals to stay in the UK in that year.
As I said, I favour keeping the HRA. But Sarah was not incorrect to say that European laws (admittedly not EU) were preventing us from deporting criminals because of their right to family life. It is the European Convention which is the only binding agreement requiring us to recognise that right, and barring that treaty, the UK government is not obliged to respect that right in passing new laws.
Slight exaggeration Sarah, and what is “general Britishness”? The Scots don’t want to leave the EU so imagine the fallout if the UK leaves. Personally I think it’s economic suicide.
Better for its citizens would be kicking Cameron out
What was the reason for Cameron’s victory? Why did people vote for him? Just curious because I am very interested in foreign politics. What exactly did he promise?
It was more likely the fact that his opponent, Ed Miliband, was a laughing-stock in the UK for many reasons, including his Wallace-and-Gromit face, carving his election promises onto a giant stone block to show off his commitment to them (not kidding), and Labour’s record with trashing our economy in the early 2000s. The Tories posited themselves as a responsible, sensible party to be trusted with the economy, and no one honestly pictured Ed Miliband negotiating with Putin or Obama in the big leagues.
Guest, probably because the alternative (Milliband) was a joke, and the rise of the SNP broke up the opposition leaving the Conservatives with the largest number of seats, and a majority. They only received 37% of the vote (24% of the electorate) so more people didn’t vote for them. It’s the way the electoral system works here.
Thanks for your replies, girls. I guess it is always the same. If there is no other option people tend to vote for the same guy. Which is sad. I also have the feeling that people who went to Eton or Harrow are being bashed more often since Cameron took over or was this always the case?
Guest, posh-bashing always goes up under a Conservative government. (In the last government, Cameron was PM, but the Tories didn’t have enough seats to form a majority so it was a Tory-Lib Dem coalition).
And also, if Labour had chosen David Miliband instead of Ed, he’d be PM right now, I’m convinced of that. You can blame the unions for that one. Bernie supporters take heed.
Pfft Sarah.
Notwithstanding its various democratic deficits, which are real, and the revolting treatment of Greece and Italy, I will almost certainly vote to stay in the EU.
Insofar as I can see, the EU and Strasbourg is our last line of defence for the rights of the average Joe against the wholesale dismantling of protections the current government is engaged in.
Plus, I LIKE THE IMMIGRANTS. Heresy, I know, but there it is. Nice, socially renewing people, by and large.
Sixer, you make a good point – all the humans rights, employment legislation etc. that have come in in the last twenty years have come from the EU. Anyone in this thread who is female should appreciate that. As a queer woman who was sexually harassed in her former job I appreciate it even more.
Thank you! I don’t understand how Theresa May tried to implement rules that would force foreign graduates to leave the country something like 3 months after graduating from a UK university – we’ve just spent thousands of pounds training you into a skilled worker who will improve our economy, and now we’re turfing you out?
@sixer
I love you Sixer…. You always say what I would like to write but I am afraid of people jumping at my throat tbh.
The Supreme Court handed the government its arse on legal aid for domestic violence victims this morning but if it hadn’t, Strasbourg would have. And there are plenty of areas where Strasbourg *has* been the last line of defence.
Like you say, embertine, this applies especially to women, for whom the effects of austerity have been to roll back equality.
I think there’s a lot wrong with the EU, but none of it is what the outers think is wrong with it. And any normal working person who is interested in preserving their social protections, should vote to stay in, despite the drawbacks.
Britain won’t leave the EU. That is not even the plan. Cameron is toying with the EU, specially when it comes to payments for kids who weren’t born in Britain. He is also toying with his own country. Typical stupid political games. He is negotiating with the EU just for being able to say: Hey to my country I got this and that out of the EU. And I am the winner. Sorry to burst the bubble but Britain is definetely not able to survive without the EU and the EU can’t live without Britain. They need each other. It is just a political game. I don’t like Cameron. And I for one think: If people do not want to be a member of the EU then please, nobody is forcing you to stay. Just leave without negotiating for discounts, more money or whatever. No attack. This was not directed at you personally. I just don’t get it to be honest. Politicians are all fu### up….I stopped believing them a long time ago.
Please – the UK is shite….and it’s its own doing…the EU had nothing to do with it…
Sarah – “your taxes being sent abroad to people in other countries who have not paid a single penny into your tax system” — Hah! Imagine that!
This Amuricuhn wishes the U.S. would be like Switzerland and keep our noses out of everyone else’s business.
But seriously, most of us outside the UK have no problem understanding your debate about staying in vs getting out of the EU.
MinnFinn – on the other hand, here are some Brits I know:
My mother-in-law, who has a tiny pension and no other income, plus about a thousand health conditions, is living in Spain and happily taking free health and social care from the Spanish taxpayer.
My friend’s son, who is currently studying for a bachelor degree in Rotterdam, tuition-free and with a grant for living costs, supplied by the Dutch government. He is studying there specifically to avoid UK university tuition fees.
My uncle, who is living in France, also has little money beyond a pension, and makes plentiful use of the French healthcare system despite not paying any tax in France.
But then there is my cousin: who is as rich as Croesus, earns a fortune, and is happy to pay the high taxes incurred if you live in Norway (ok, Norway isn’t in the EU, but it is in the EEA).
Britishers who support leaving the EU never tell you about all these types of people. Only the other way around. But it goes both ways, you know? That’s the entire point of it. Personally, I couldn’t care less if a few thousand Romanians send their Child Benefit back to Romania. There are worse things. Like all the pensioner ex-pats rushing back to the UK, inflating the housing bubble even further, and crashing the NHS!
sixer – I do know it goes both ways. Myopia is everywhere.
Americans can relate to the disparity between the elite and the middle/lower classes. We almost lost our middle class the past decade but it seems better now. There are always going to be priveleged people who live in a bubble and think they know what it’s like for the average Joe but really have no idea because they’ve never lived it. I really like Emma Thompson, but I realize she isn’t your average UK lifestyle.
Thanks for explaining it all. It’s nice to hear from a normal somebody what’s going on over the pond.
P.S. I’m kind of glad England has a lot of rainy weather, because that rainy weather brought about Wellies! It doesn’t even rain much here in my state, but I have a pair because they’re so dang cute!!!
The United States in general, and California in particular, is experiencing much of the same thing. Wealthy, liberal bien-pensants simply do not have to live with the actual consequences of their policy choices, whether that is open borders, forced busing, or increased energy prices. (I know this because I am one of them – born and raised in Newton, Massachusetts, one of the wealthiest and most liberal cities in the country.)
Being upper-middle-class means that you are insulated from the issues with assimilation, school quality, and paying for energy that the rest of the population struggles with. We don’t have to deal with these issues personally because of our wealth, but a lot of other people do, and simply dismissing them out of hand as ‘racists’ is both absurd and hypocritical. Who do your children go to school with?
My family is half British (Dad is from the UK) and this EU issue has split the English side of the family down the middle. One of my British cousins actually works for the EU and she is worried about losing her job! Meanwhile her father is planning to vote no. What a mess.
If I had to guess from watching my British family members duke it out, the vote will be to stay in, but it will be a close one.
@PENNYLANE I found your comment to be thoughtful, reasonable and balanced. It was very informative. The issue is not black and white. People have very real concerns and it is unfair just to dismiss them as “racist”. Emma Thompson will never have to wait in line to see a doctor or spend the night on a trolly in a hospital. Neither will i thank God but I can understand peoples worries about these issues.
As an American I actually can imagine the British EU predicament since the US is already a federation of separate state economies. I’m from California which is like the 10th largest economy in the world, and our taxes are used to float a bunch of other smaller states that pay very little if anything and have much more electorate power than our hugely populated and prosperous state.
In the 2000s George Bush and house republicans denied California the right to require auto manufacturers to comply with more ambitious fuel emission requirements we were trying to implement to promote cleaner and more energy efficient cars. Instead they aided the oil industry by giving tax breaks to American automakers that increased the weight of their SUVs and trucks making them use more fuel. California had no choice but to allow these vehicles that barely complied if at all with the old emission standards into our state creating another obstacle to establishing a more competitive auto energy industry. Why did the republican government weigh in on this, especially since they always claim to be “hands off” state affairs? Because California is the biggest auto market in the US, so there’s no way the US oil industry would ever allow their bank roll to take a hit like this.
Oh and let’s not even get started on the abysmal failure of No Child Left Behind policy forced on all states.
OTOH, the US does seem to manage the inevitable tensions between federal creep and states rights whilst successfully holding together as a unit, plus it manages to run a single currency! So one could argue: it can be done! It is the same arguments though, for and against. Also tainted with similar tensions between pro- and anti- immigration.
As I said above, I’ll probably vote to stay in, largely due to the better chance of retaining social protections. The criticisms I have of the EU are different to those Britishers who want to come out. They talk of immigration, the British welfare bill and national sovereignty. I criticise the EU for being overly technocratic and not responsive enough to voters in a timely way, and for being overly in thrall to finance. And on the finance side of it, at least, we’d be even MORE in thrall to finance if we came out, due to our over-reliance on the City of London economically.
Surprise, EU is 27 countries made up of federal states.
Cranberry, you’ve explained exactly the reason that the US works and the EU doesn’t. The US has both economic union and political union, which means that California and New York and all of the wealthy states bail out Louisiana and Mississippi and the other poor states. This happens automatically and while you may as Californians resent it, most of you don’t want to secede from the union.
In Europe, Germany (mostly) and the other wealthy countries bail out Greece and Italy and the other poor states. But without political union, the Germans resent that what they perceive as their hard work pays for those who don’t want to pay taxes, and Italy and Greece resent that they are the first ones facing the waves of refugees and migrants. If the Germans ran a European government that was responsible for tax collection in Greece and all refugees/migrants were divided equally between European countries according to population, the EU would work much more efficiently. Unfortunately, no one wants that.
@Tina
Even though California would fare better than most of the country, as I say below, I’m not for seceding from the Union or dismantling the federal government as many right wing conservatives are. You’re right it’s not the exact situation as the EU. The EU has a lot more enormous obstacles like different currency, languages, cultures, histories as well as current economic conditions, etc. Whereas the US consolidated its power early on in its history to take advantage of its ancestral/cultural homogeny and not have the severity of unification problems the EU is trying to overcome now -although we did have a civil war over it (& there are those that would have us war over it again i.e. hater gun touters).
I think our bigger problem is the corporate and financial corruption of our entire governing system from state to federal government. The lack of real representation and a broken, corrupted electoral system that is bought and orchestrated better than anything you’ll see on Broadway or West End. I could go on. It’s endless, but you get my point. It’s everywhere; it’s global.
Something a lot of people don’t realize about Greece and the EU is that Germany and France contributed to the fall the Greece economy by over selling them bad investment bonds just like here in the US. I know the problem is more complex than just that, the corruption, the inefficiency etc, but this is a huge part of Greece’s inability to recover, and why should they be solely to blame for this transgression. I never hear this point being talked about.
@Cranberry, you make a number of very interesting points. You’re right that there is corruption in the US government but it’s not on the level of stuffed ballot boxes, it’s more insidious, in the form of appalling Supreme Court rulings like Citizens United. I may be an idealist for the parliamentary system of government but I don’t see that kind of electoral corruption in the UK or Canada or Australia. I don’t think it’s global – I think your system is wonderfully idealistic and noble, but at the moment, it’s broken.
Greece is a different matter entirely. I have a number of Greek friends here in London, and when I talk to them I realise what a precious thing democracy is. If they had any confidence that their money would go to the Greek people they would pay their taxes. But they know that it will just disappear into the pockets of the ruling elite. Everyone knows this, and so no one pays tax (just bribes) and the cycle goes on. I do have some hope, though, because of Italy. They had a similarly bad tax evasion problem and they are doing great things to solve it. They did a simple thing – they looked at sales of luxury cars. They went to Mr X and said, you only declared an income of 50,000 euros last year, how did you afford a Ferrari? And they did that up and down the country. And now Italy’s tax revenues have soared. So there are solutions.
I think the point about Germany and France selling bad investment bonds to the Greeks is a red herring. All bankers sell bonds to anyone they can. Banks and bankers have no nationality, not any more.
@Tina
Yes, I was referring to the fact that $$ plays the biggest role and determines who runs and wins elections, as in Citizens United, campaign PACs and beyond.
I have a very hard time believing the massive western, corporate industries that are highly invested in global trade don’t have and don’t exercise their influence (power) in countries like UK, Canada and Australia and possibly even effect their elected government officials.
Regardless of banks selling bad bonds to anyone they can, if France and Germany wanted this whole EU experiment to work, they made a very bad call trying to model their market like the US market knowing the high risks involved. And they did know what they were doing. They just thought it would work for them as it used to for us. In the US, “we” believe we’ll always be triumphant no matter what, so we tend to be risk takers cause our wealth and lack of transparency can cover up the pain of failure. It will be a very hard lesson for us to realize we’re not invulnerable. But France and Germany should have known better.
Oh yes, multinational companies do what they can in places like the UK, with Amazon and Starbucks hiring lobbyists to ensure that they continue to get their tax breaks. But the amount of corporate money that is sloshing around the US election system absolutely dwarfs any other country, even adjusting for population size. $6 billion was spent on the US election in 2012, and $50 million on the 2010 UK election. Campaign finance is much more severely restricted in other countries than in the US. This has knock-on effects where members of Congress essentially have to spend all of their time fundraising. They’re always focused on the next election and not on the business of governing.
I absolutely agree that all parties involved in setting up the EU were very naive. They ignored calls at that time that said that economic union without political union would be a disaster.
But would I rather have the federation of states dissolved as some would like? No ! Because things would be a lot worse especially in smaller or less prosperous states that would resort to what ever means they could to pull in industries and jobs. They would abolish civil rights and disenfranchise whole groups of people based on race, gender and class. Not to mention they would rape the environment for a few jobs and fleeting wealth. These things are already happening because of corruption, corporate power and ignorance. These things would just continue and increase, but it would all be legal without recourse.
You do have awesome cakes Britain, this Canadian salutes you!
The grey comes and goes, as does the misery. Isn’t that life in general? 😉
“You have lovely juices in America.” That’s what a Kiwi once told me. She was talking about the variety of fruit juices we have. It is one of the best things about coming here.
Um, what? Does she genuinely think only countries that are members of the EU are part of Europe now?
I doubt it. She wasn’t giving a lengthy assessment, just some quick sound bites at a film festival.
No, but she was using Europe as a synonym for the EU because that is how it goes here. Islander mentality: many of us get off on it, more’s the pity.
I’ve just imagined a Tory MP trying to spank Nanny McPhee. That made my day. Just cackling now.
LOL! And I can hear Nanny’s soft “hmph.” Such a small sound for such an emphatic statement: “I am quietly judging you and finding you lacking.”
She’s right about it being grey and old, but it’s still the most amazing place. I’d love to see the British Isles one more time before I die.
I love Britain too. Who cares if it is raining… I am visiting Britain as often as I can.
Side note: is she wearing real fur in these photos?
I looked at the stole and thought that it could be a beautifully knitted luxury yarn like cashmere or angora. But the coat I don’t get-it actually looks like fake fur. Oh CB staff-could you check into this?
She’s not wrong. 🙂 I co sign the thing about europe.
I kind of understand what she’s trying to say, but she has so confused the EU and Europe, that I can’t take her seriously.
Incidentally, if any other celeb made that mistake, they’d be tarred and feathered round these parts, but apparently everyone’s annoying auntie get a pass.
I’ve never liked ET , is it obvious? 😉
British people terrify me.
Lol
I love British people. Their accent, their movies, their musicians, their history. Even their British Breakfast. Their pride when they say: Hell yes, I am British and I am proud of that. I love the fact that they don’t take themselves too seriously, I love their fashion style. The list goes on and on. 🙂
Did you ever have to work with them tho. Day after day in a small office. When they are all friends who have been there a long time and you are the only American and you are new? Til you’ve had this kind of experience you have yet to see the true nature of The British Mindset and British ways
Have you ever been a Yankee and tried to break into a group of southern women? Same thing.
@jfresh
This doesn’t only apply to British people though. If you start working for a new company or if you move to another city it is always difficult to get into a group…. I love British people. No matter what… Haha.
@SloaneY if you went through anything like I did I am sorry and hope it’s not scarring you too much.
@Guest Not true. I am a contract worker, have had the experience of being “the new girl” in a surprisingly wide variety of environments. There is no coldness like British coldness, no arrogance like British arrogance, and nobody snubs and backstabs like the British do. Scottish people included. Not the Irish though. Good 4u if you love the British you should try and move there.
it most be terrible having such a low opinion of the place she came from
She’s just being honest and it is very refreshing.
My perceptions might be skewed, but I felt Scotland out of all places in the UK had the more cloudy dreariness that she describes. I’ve visited various parts of the UK and it was much happier weather as you go south.
Anyway, Emma is a delight.
Have any of you Brits been to Seattle or Washington state? I’m just curious as to how you’d rate it in comparison to UK weather. I’ve heard several times that it’s kind of depressing because of all the rain and grey skies. Seriously, I’ve known people that lived there advising caution to anyone sensitive or prone to depression, and that there maybe some stats to back it up. But obviously many people live there so maybe it’s more a matter of what you’re accustomed to, hence my question.
That would be similar – anywhere in the Pacific Northwest. Although, I believe Britain has less rain than that!
Yeah, I got the impression that there’s more rain in Washington, but Brits talk about their rain so much I didn’t know which might have more. In general I think Brits tend to joke or speak more nostalgically about the rain whereas folks from Washington just flatly say “it’s aallwwaayyss raining”.
I’ve lived in Seattle and London. Seattle gets a lot of rainy days but it’s usually a very light misty sort of rain. London gets proper downpours. London seems to stay more damp, though, while Seattle is drier, less humid. Similar gray days, though.
I do not understand why you Brits complain about the weather all the time. It rains a lot. Rain is awesome! The weather changes a lot. Also awesome, at least you’re not bored. I’d love to live somewhere where you could wear a cardigan in summer.
Constant sunshine seems awful. Constant sunshine, heat and moisture in the air is probably the worst kind of climate to live in.
It is. You aren’t lying. I would love to go back to Seattle or London. I am in the Deep South, and it is blisteringly hot and humid for 8 months out of the year. I live for the winter. I’m peeved because we haven’t gotten much of one this year. We were swimming on Thanksgiving.
SloaneY is right – in Seattle, it’s not necessarily the amount of rain we get – a lot of places actually have more rain than we do. What does a lot of people in are the very short winter days and the thick, gray clouds – sometimes the cloud cover won’t break for days, even weeks. It can really mess with your head. I’ve lived here my entire life and I’m still not quite used to how dismal the winters can be.
HAHAHAHA.
Audience member on Question Time (BBC ask the politicians show) has just asked if Emma Thompson is a “metropolitan elitist snob”.
First response: “I see too many French tarts in bakeries.”
What the what? Is that a non sequitur or am I missing a xenophobic joke? Oh. Scrub that. Cakes. Tarts. Xenophobia. Lord, our political debate is turning Trumpesque!
British threads are boring, lol. Brits are annoyingly reasonable. I scrolled through: not a single Brit asked Emma to emigrate if she doesn’t like Britain so much!
As an American (albeit one who works exclusively with European markets for a tech company) I’ve thoroughly enjoyed eavesdropping on this back-and-forth conversation amongst the Brits. You guys make me smile.
And yes. Emma for everything. She’s the best.
You know, Sixer.. I woke up this morning, read this thread and wondered whether I woke up last night and commented here using your name whilst sleep walking. How else would it be possible for you to say exactly what I think every single time!!! You are awesome! I’ll be near Tiverton for a wedding tomorrow so I’ll raise my glass towards the Blackdown Hills and think of you!
Bless you!