Now that Doctor Strange is in post-production and heading towards a November release, people are starting to pick apart Tilda Swinton’s casting as The Ancient One. Months ago, Marvel honcho Kevin Feige explained the choice to whitewash and gender-swap the role by casting Tilda. Feige basically said it was Marvel’s attempt to avoid controversy and caricature because, as written in the original comic books, The Ancient One could have come across as an Asian stereotype, and the whole project would have had a patina of cultural appropriation and white-saviorism. So, their answer was just to whitewash everything, like even when these characters are in an Asian country, they don’t interact with any Asian people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The whole controversy got a bit worse when Tilda Swinton chatted with THR late last week, saying that in the script, The Ancient One was never Tibetan and she was never asked to play an Asian character. Which is just a semantic word game as far as I’m concerned. So now C. Robert Cargill, the Strange screenwriter, has come out to try to explain it.
Tilda Swinton was cast as a Tibetan monk in the Marvel movie Doctor Strange so the comic book character could be changed to a ‘Celtic’ to avoid upsetting China, a screenwriter has claimed. One of the film’s screenwriters has suggested that the casting of the British actress as sorcerer the Ancient One was partly done to avoid offending China’s government. Moviegoers in China now represent the world’s second-largest annual box office after North America but the film’s backers apparently did not want to risk losing out on the Chinese market by introducing the highly politically charged subject of Tibet.
“He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that’s bullsh*t and risk the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political,” screenwriter C. Robert Cargill said in a podcast interview with the Texas-based DoubleToasted.com.
Cargill, who wasn’t involved in the casting of Swinton, said the comic book character of the Ancient One was ‘a racist stereotype.’
‘There is no other character in Marvel history that is such a cultural landmine, that is absolutely unwinnable,’ he said, adding: ‘It all comes down on to which way you are willing to lose.’
Casting a ‘Chinese actress as a Tibetan character’ would have been a bad idea, Cargill said. If a Tibetan actor had been cast in the role, Cargill said people would have criticised the movie as ‘it’s another white guy goes to the Orient, adopts their ways and then comes back and it’s the great white hero story.’
He said director Scott Derrickson instead decided to ‘make one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel universe a woman…Everybody kind of pats us on the back for that and then decides to scold us for her not being Tibetan. We knew that the social justice warriors would be angry either way.’
Yeah… I think the swipe about “social justice warriors” was unwarranted, especially if Marvel wants to avoid the well-earned reputation of a bunch of white dudes bro-ing out to superheroes. While I understand the point about the source material being problematic/racist, I also think Marvel needs to work on how they discuss this particular issue and diversity issues in general. Following Cargill’s interview, Marvel did release a statement:
Marvel has a very strong record of diversity in its casting of films and regularly departs from stereotypes and source material to bring its MCU to life. The Ancient One is a title that is not exclusively held by any one character, but rather a moniker passed down through time, and in this particular film the embodiment is Celtic. We are very proud to have the enormously talented Tilda Swinton portray this unique and complex character alongside our richly diverse cast.
“Richly diverse cast” = Chiwetel Ejiofor. He’s the only actor of color playing a major role in the film. You can and should do better, Marvel.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet, Marvel.
“Marvel has a strong record of diversity in their films” since when?
Since they cast a few black guys. Because that’s what they think counts.
Not to shade black men, who are also in need of representation in films. But Marvel seems like it thinks that putting a select few black man in their movies somehow creates diversity. It’s a lot more than that.
Starting it off with huge ass lies
“Figuring out a way to respectfully portray an Asian character knowing how few roles are available to that group was super hard you guys so we were like – hey! Why not replace him with a white woman? Diversity problem solved!”
Sigh. Do they think we are freaking stupid?! FFS, all of this so they get money from China. Like the hundreds of million they will make isn’t enough. As for Tilda, I love her, but why did she give such a ridiculous answer. The film is wrapped. Okay, fair enough I’m sure they told her how to handle this, but it pisses me off because it’s all such crap. Gah.
” like even when these characters are in an Asian country, they don’t interact with any Asian people. ¯_(ツ)_/¯”
Can’t wait till I start seeing films based in Africa without a single black person. The attempt at cultural annihilation is real.
““He originates from Tibet, so if you acknowledge that Tibet is a place and that he’s Tibetan, you risk alienating one billion people who think that that’s bullsh*t and risk the Chinese government going, ‘Hey, you know one of the biggest film-watching countries in the world? We’re not going to show your movie because you decided to get political,”
So you don’t want to get all political about the source material but you do want to reap the financial benefit of having Dr. Strange learn from a ‘Celtic’ monk for the sake of Marvel bucks? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, these are weak pitiful excuses. Until you know what it’s like to constantly have your culture raided for the pockets of white business men who then refuse to even give you a starring role you’ll never appreciate how offensive, “But guys if we didn’t do this we couldn’t even make the movie!” is as an excuse.
Then DON’T make the movie. Have Dr. Strange learn his mysticism from John Wayne while they both eat hot dogs and watch baseball. Stop trying to find excuses for why minorities just ‘can’t’ be featured.
“He said director Scott Derrickson instead decided to ‘make one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel universe a woman…Everybody kind of pats us on the back for that and then decides to scold us for her not being Tibetan. We knew that the social justice warriors would be angry either way.’”
Because the new form of diversity is giving minority roles to white women. Why would everyone who now lost a chance to act or even see themselves portrayed on the big screen give you a thumbs up for that? Skipping this movie, Hollywood can keep its whitewashed crap.
I KNEW they were going to argue that ‘oh we cast a woman! Diversity!” I KNEW it. Way to miss the point entirely. I guess we should just cast all POC roles male or female to white women because it’s the same thing really. *eyeroll*
Because the only options are Asian man or white woman for diversity. There is literally nothing in between-and we should all be fine with that. It’s not like there are any other diverse actors they could have rewritten the part for. /sarcasm
Here’s the thing: it’s not a racist caricature to simply have an Asian person playing a “mystical” character, by default. It becomes a racist caricature when you JUST present the character as a flat, one-dimensional mystical character. The Ancient One could certainly be a Tibetan Asian man without automatically making a racism issue. It’s like the same thing with Native Americans – NAs don’t object to seeing Native American characters doing traditional things. The problem is that that’s ALL we see. The NA character is simply there to provide guidance or reassurance to the white leads, with almost no attention paid to their own story or development. All this is basically a dodge by Marvel to deny that this is all about the Chinese market and to cover for their own shoddy character development.
Em, so it’s better to cast a white British woman but have it still set in very “Tibetan” looking environment and costume etc while trying to claim you made her “celtic” looking?
I’m so confused
Also “If a Tibetan actor had been cast in the role, Cargill said people would have criticised the movie as ‘it’s another white guy goes to the Orient, adopts their ways and then comes back and it’s the great white hero story.’”
Not if it was properly written with substance, it wouldn’t.
Exactly. There have been films about white people traveling to Asia that were well done. But the difference was that those films portrayed the Asian characters as well-rounded, interesting and dynamic in their own right. They weren’t just there to advance the white person’s storyline. The Ancient One could be written as an interesting character in his own right, they just don’t know how to do it. I do agree with him that there is a minority of people who’d take issue regardless. You can’t make everybody happy. But their excuses are not working here.
This is a question related to this topic of Hollywood whitewashing. I’d welcome your thoughts!
Yesterday it was announced that the finalists for the lead role in a James Cameron-produced, Robert Rodriguez-directed live action, big-budget adaptation of a Japanese anime “Battle Angel” are: Zendaya, Maika Monroe, and Rosa Salazar. This is according to Hollywood Reporter (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zendaya-finalists-james-camerons-battle-887797)
Now, I am very happy that 20th Century Fox and the head honchos are considering color-blind casting. This is a huge role. This is a potential star-making role. It’s a $200 million budget. It’s a sci-fi blockbuster. So this is a big deal. The inclusion of POC is great. Zendaya and Rosa Salazar! A black woman and a Latina! It’s wonderful. But as an Asian-American, I did feel kind of saddened again. I think the role is probably going to Zendaya, and I’m happy for her. It reflects the overall progress that Hollywood is hopefully making. But I’m sad that the role is being stripped of any Asian identity and the source material is being altered. Thoughts about this?
I think the people in power in Hollywood and beyond (in other industries and fields) are kind of “pitting” POC against each other, to take the heat off of the straight white males who are behind the scenes, pulling the strings. They replace an Asian character with a white woman so they can still claim diversity and representation. They replace a character from a Japanese anime with a black woman so they can still claim diversity and representation. The only people this hurts are more POC. It deepens mistrust and discord among the minority community, when really what we need to do is work together and support each other and speak out for each other. So I have conflicting feelings about this.
The counterargument might be that again, just like in “Ghost in the Shell,” this character in “Battle Angel” is a cyborg. The illustrations might be interpreted by Western eyes as racially ambiguous. The story is technically set in a futuristic/dystopian “America”. So technically the role could be played by someone of any color. But again, this is Japanese source material. There are distinct Japanese themes in the work. It would be nice to give a star-making role to a female Asian actor. The screenwriter Max Landis claimed that the reasons GitS cast Scarlett Johansson is because she’s the only one who can open a movie right now. Well, how about giving an unknown actor a chance to become the next Scarlett Johansson?
Oh wow, thanks for that link, going to read it now. And I very much enjoyed reading your opinion on it as well. I’ll be honest and say that I have very little hope for it,
I could see the justification of the casting already being the fact that Alita is a cyborg. But let’s say they do what Dr. Strange is doing, which is whitewashing the rest of the cast, would they even keep their OBVIOUS Japanese names?
It would be ironic is Zendaya accepts the role as well, but that’s another thing.
Wow I didn’t know any of this. Thanks for sharing! I guess animes and manga are the new thing Hollywood is going to be ruining. Oh yipee…
Well let me say as an African woman I agree with you 100%.
Especially this:
“I think the people in power in Hollywood and beyond (in other industries and fields) are kind of “pitting” POC against each other, to take the heat off of the straight white males who are behind the scenes, pulling the strings. They replace an Asian character with a white woman so they can still claim diversity and representation. They replace a character from a Japanese anime with a black woman so they can still claim diversity and representation. The only people this hurts are more POC. It deepens mistrust and discord among the minority community, when really what we need to do is work together and support each other and speak out for each other.”
This is the smartest most insightful comment and I’m glad you’re seeing the issue clearly. Hollywood is still doling out scraps for minority actors and characters but now they’re making it into a competition for who gets the scraps while also stripping away the cultural heritage of the stories they’re stealing from.
Maybe in some futuristic racial Mecca where everyone is finally treated fairly I’d support this, but as it is right now? No. I don’t want to see an African story being told with Asian actors. Native Americans don’t want to see themselves replaced by Latinos. It’s the tone deaf approach to our pleas.
They hear “Make things more inclusive and diverse” and then decide to sit back and be the arbitrators of who gets the golden ticket of being ‘diverse’ while still abandoning the actual individuals who get no screen time or attention. As an African woman even I can count on one hand the number of Asian actors you even SEE in Hollywood right now, so Hollywood continuing to ravage Asian properties while eliminating the actual people who created and loved those properties is offensive.
Love Zendaya but I’m going to have to pass on that one. Boycotting films is the only way I see for myself and others to let them know this is not okay.
+1 to every single thing you said.
So since it’s because of the big, bad Chinese that they had to put a “Celtic” in the role, maybe they should have changed Dr. Strange from a guy that learns about Tibetan mysticism to a guy that learns about Celtic mysticism from an Ancient Druid played by Tilda. I mean won’t the Chinese be offended that Dr. Strange had a connection with anything having to do with Tibet however vague. Also did they decide to use the word Celtic to try and act that makes her looks less white?
The fact that they can’t seem to think of a way to make this role with an Asians actor without using stereotype shows how these people can’t see Asian people as real, fully realized human beings. If they really wanted to make sure things didn’t end up being a stereotype they could have hired consultants on how to portray this character in a way that is respectful while still keeping the role Asian. So they can go somewhere with their bs. Also I am really side eyeing how they are acting like they would just love to be diverse but the Chinese just won’t let them. Yup, it’s all the Chinese fault.
“The fact that they can’t seem to think of a way to make this role with an Asians actor without using stereotype shows how these people can’t see Asian people as real, fully realized human beings.”
Exactly. Which is the most ironic thing of all. “We want to create a story with this Asian property but Asians are so tricky to portray.”
Uh, no they’re not. The problem is you guys only see a. virginal nerd or b. Kung Fu master.
There is no room for an intelligent minority portrayl when the eye doing the casting is inherantly racist.
Diversity, they say. What do they consider to be a diverse cast exactly?
I’m just so tired of this..
Lawwwwwd. WHY do they keep doing crap like this?! Ridiculous. Offensive. Makes zero sense whatsoever. And then the response to the backlash makes matters even worse.
Do better, Marvel. Do better, Hollywood.
I am very uncomfortable with this reliance on Chinese money for movies. And I dislike that it’s directly leading to self censorship
Hollywood has been bending over backwards for certain audiences for years, it’s just that now it for the Chinese and not just for white people in middle America and/ or the 18-35 white male demographic. Only now they are using Chinese money as a buffer/ excuse to hid their racist tactics behind even though that mentality of not wanting to put certain faces on the silver screen because it might offend certain segments of societies delicate sensibilities existed long before China became a source of revenue.
@jinni: Totally agree. If they were really catering to Chinese people, why are there so few Chinese actors breaking through in Hollywood leading roles? It’s not like China doesn’t have its own racism issues, but the lack of introspection on Hollywood’s part is ridiculous and using China as some kind of shield or diversion is cowardly.
I take it you’ve forgotten the many, many human rights violations in China? This isn’t just “Hollywood’s racist”, we’re talking about tacitly approving and accepting money from a governing body that isn’t exactly the most up and up.
Tibetans are perhaps one f the most subjugated and opressed groups of people living today and this is just morally wrong specially to chase after Chinese money. Like the irony of this blows my mind and i will definitely not be checking this out no matter how good this ends up being
Ok, fine, you can’t set the part of the plot concerning the Ancient One in Tibet because that’ll lose you the Chinese market. But what about Bhutan? Nepal? What about some other country which shares a lot of cultural and religious similiarities with Tibet? And then have the Ancient One be played by an actor or actress from that region? Why is your first solution, “oh, it can’t have anything to do with Tibet, better cast a white woman.”?
Also, it’s perfectly possible to write and play an Asian mystic character without descending into stereotype.
And if you’re so concerned about avoiding stereotypes, then why is the only named Asian actor on the cast list playing a *manservant* to Doctor Strange? Sounds like something from the 1930s.
+1
“He said director Scott Derrickson instead decided to ‘make one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel universe a woman…Everybody kind of pats us on the back for that and then decides to scold us for her not being Tibetan. We knew that the social justice warriors would be angry either way.’ ”
This statement really depressed me. Its just the height of laziness on their part to not even try to write a decent character of Asian descent. If its not relevant to them or immediately in their concern they really don’t care.
I have no desire to watch any more of the MCU universe. I don’t see hardly any black females in these roles. I used to get so excited about comics and the superhero movies but with the ignorance running rampant with TPTB in Hollywood, the thrill is almost gone. I almost don’t care about CA:CW or even Strange.
I’m kinda done with the MCU. Wish them well but I’m tired of seeing women who look like me disregarded and other poor displays of diversity.
“Marvel has a very strong record of diversity”
Pfffft. Their movies are sausage fests. White sausage fests. This is why I have always been totally uninterested in The Avengers. Oh look a bunch of dudes — all white dudes, at that — being dudely. Except for the one token girl. Whom Whedon said he was only able to squeeze in there by telling the Marvel execs otherwise the white dude avalanche would look gay.
White men getting all the main roles, everyone else pitted against each other for the scraps. It really does look purposeful. And I’ve seen people buy into it plenty, savaging each other rather than looking at the men behind the curtain. The last thing these guys want is for everyone else to band together and demand that everyone gets equal shares of a pie they totally dominate.