For the love of God, it’s not enough that Kim Kardashian successfully manufactured a controversy over some semi-nude photos several months ago, but now young celebrity women are STILL TALKING ABOUT IT. To recap: Kim posted a somewhat naked selfie. Pink, Bette Midler and Chloe Grace Moretz threw shade. Ariel Winter, Emily Ratajkowski and others defended Kim’s right to do whatever she wanted with her body and post whatever photos she wanted as well. As I’ve said ad nauseam at this point, regardless of whether we’re talking about Kim or anyone else: I believe in every woman’s right to do whatever the hell she wants with her body. I don’t have to personally approve of another woman’s actions to recognize her right, her autonomy, her choices. You do you.
…But others disagree. Like Chloe Moretz. Chloe covers the June issue of Glamour and as we discussed yesterday, she still thinks Kim was wrong to post a semi-nude selfie. For reasons. Mostly because Chloe didn’t personally approve of Kim’s selfie, but it’s perfectly fine for Chloe to post her own bikini selfies because she’s allowed to promote body confidence and Kim isn’t. Chloe’s reasoning was… what I would expect of a 19-year-old, honestly. But not all teenagers are the same! Ariel Winter, 18, was one of Kim’s defenders originally. And Ariel is perfectly capable of throwing some shade at Chloe without even naming her:
Good for Ariel. What else is there to say? Ariel has always been an eloquent spokeswoman for body positivity and body confidence. UCLA should be honored to have Ariel as an undergrad!
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Old news aside, I’m really glad to see this girl going to college. It seems like when an actor does this, it helps a bit to balance them out -like maybe they see reality and life a bit beyond Horrorwood. I kind of wish more young actors did that.
Hahaha on the Horrorwood, I shall use it too now! Hope you haven’t copyrighted it😬
Why is this still a thing? It’s just like Kanye still going on about Taylor Swift – just let it go already. The thing is, if Kim was promoting body positivity then she would not be covering up with coats or only showing her body when it is in perfect form. AND there would be little or NO photoshopping of the pictures.
This! I will not carry the flag for Kim being the poster person for “body positivity.” Not with her deformed shape and hiding out when she doesn’t feel her body is “perfect.”
Not to mention nudity is an essential element of Kim’s brand. She isn’t posting nude selfies to promote positive body image, she is doing it keep the kash rolling in.
@santia I do think one can be a supporter and firm believer in body positivity, and also be insecure on some level. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Many firmly believe in rising above a number or expectation, but walking the talk is HARD and I think many women are in varying stages of coming to terms with their own comfort level. The end goal is usually full IDGAF but that’s a process. If someone can’t rock it without a care in the world, it doesn’t mean they believe someone less than perfect should hide, unfit for human eyes. It’s just mustering up the courage to just do you and be there, vulnerable and open for criticism, and that’s scary.
Hmmm…. Kim would still receive negative comments regardless of what she does because of how she is perceived by the public. I don’t care that she covers up with a coat, changes her body on a whim and doesn’t show it unless she feels confident she looks good… she has the RIGHT to do whatever she wants with her body. I’m not going to sit here and preach someone to do something different than I do.
I used to diet and exercise to extremes to reach what I thought was perfect and wore a ridiculous amount of makeup to cover up what I perceived were flaws… WE ALL DO THIS. We either wear makeup, dress up and all post selfies after we reached what we considered to be a good weight. WE ALL DO THIS. If we didn’t, my Facebook news feed would not be fill of both men and women posting photos of their bodies. So please give me a break with the criticism of Kim on her choices with what she does to her body.. IT IS BODY SHAMING.
Sorry but I think she shames her body more than anyone else shames her. I also think that’s expected when she’s only been taught to value herself through her appearance, specifically as men viewing her as a sexual toy…which is how she became famous and how her mom has used her. I don’t think it’s body shaming to consistently tell genders of all sizes that maybe they should put it away and not rely on looks and sexuality alone.
Sick of the “shaming” comments. I honestly don’t care.
I completely agree. It’s her body and she can do what she wants.
And I think it’s more the fault of a society which still values a woman’s body above all else, then the women who use what they have to get ahead.
YAS!! Preach! People are so hypocritical! “Only someone withMY idea of a normal body can project positive body image” sheesh
@paleokifaru- I disagree that Kim K shames herself more than anyone else does… she receives a ton of criticism from those on here about her body. The comments are pretty rude at times. She had plastic surgery… big deal. It’s her body, she chose to do it for whatever reason and she can post pictures of herself if she wants. We all have the choice to not look at them if we don’t like her. What I am referring to body shaming is the comments that say… there is no way she is a size 2, not with a butt that size or maybe it is her butt that weighs 139 lbs. That is BODY SHAMING. Telling someone to put their clothes and rely on something different than looks is different. Kim is a vapid human being & she obviously has something going on in her head because she makes a lot of money but it would be nice if she channeled her energies elsewhere. That being said I find it hypocritical to ridicule her for seeking the same approval and attention the rest of us do. Of course, we all are not going for pap walks every day and constantly doing everything we can for attention. I am not saying that, I am just tired of the hypocrisy on here.
@ Santia- You obviously do care because you are commenting. I’m sorry but saying someone has a deformed shape is BODY SHAMING. Maybe if we looked deeper into why Kim felt it was necessary to change her body so drastically we might find out it is because there is so much body shaming going on and that society values looks above all else. Kim was and still is a beautiful woman. It’s sad really that there is so much emphasis placed on looks.
Well, no we don’t ALL do this. I can honestly say any selfies I have are usually of me and one of my kids or a friend doing something. I do not take pictures of my body and post them on line to either be picked apart or told “OMG you look amazing”
Not everyone needs validation on the internet.
Let me clarify: I don’t care that YOU think it’s shaming. I DO care that Kim has become that face of body positivity and feminism, when all Kim cares about is Kim and getting more clicks and likes. Feminism is about the empowerment and equality of women. Kim does not personify that to me.
What DeltaJuliet said. I really appreciate the general spirit of your comment, Tammy, but some of us don’t post gym selfies or brag about our bodies. …and I work my ass off in the gym and I’m very proud of how muscular I am, but I see ZERO need to post pics of my biceps or my abs on social media. To echo what DJ said, I don’t need the validation. Additionally, I have friends who post constant selfies and I find it cringeworthy TBH. It makes them look incredibly insecure to me.
Still, I can’t help but think it’s a sign of good things that most people are relatively supportive of other women’s choices.
First I did not body shame Kim. What I said is that she does NOT show body positivity when she covers up, waits until she has the perfect body, or has massive amounts of makeup on. Body positivity is showing yourself, flaws and all. This, to me, doesn’t apply just to Kim. She can do what she wants to her body, not my decision.
Yeah to what Delta and Kitten said. I am rarely on social media and I don’t need it to make me feel better about myself. We all don’t do it. I’m more likely to send pics of my children, pets, food or me with family. My niece and cousin may as well be Internet models as much as they post and it irks me because they are seeking validation.
@deltajuliet,
thank you and Internet hugs for your comment! It’s so sad that there is an “everyone does this” mentality out there. A lot of us, really, don’t ever even think of doing it.
The selfie, Facebook, Instagram world is just p.r. for normal folks and why someone needs to promote themselves, their relationship or their lifestyle beats me. I’m not saying everyone uses it like this but far too many do. Just be happy being and doing you I say. I wish folks would seek and find validation in things that matter *sigh*, a pipe dream probably.
@Tammy I do think the comments about her size, etc are body shaming. But that wasn’t Swak’s comment. I think people jump to body and slut shaming or ageism and feminism or bullying too quickly now. People don’t have to agree and they don’t have to think getting naked in a very sexually explicit way all the time is body positive. And that is not the same as shaming.
@Delta — Many people would consider posting pictures of you and your kids is a form of validation seeking. Heck, the mere act of posting pics of oneself — kids or not, full body shot or not, IS validation seeking.
Whatever, some people are just more sexual than others. I hope one day we, as a culture, can stop all the pearl clutching and judging over breasts, vaginas, penises and…well…skin.
Exactly! What body positivity when they clearly don’t think they’re enough? They get all these surgeries done, they lie about it being all exercise, they photoshop themselves… Sorry, but anyone who is obsessed with body image and artificial beauty is not the right person to promote body positivity. And like it or not, the other women had a point. Yes, be as sexual as you want, but women are more than their bodies. You can’t just live your entire existence offering only your body. Every time the Kardashians need attention they get naked. It’s not that naked is bad but it’s a cheap trick. Caitlyn is getting naked too for Sports Illustrated. Like, DO something that matters.
I agree, swak. In the photo that started all this, it’s so obviously photoshopped. At the bottom of the photo, there is a frosted strip on the mirror. Above that strip, her thighs are quite slim, yet below the frosted strip, the lower thighs are wider than the upper thighs above the frosted strip. I’m as blind as a welder’s dog, but I spotted it. She can claim all the body-positivity she likes, but we all know it’s simply all about “exposure” (!) for her, and not about inspiring others or projecting pride in her body. She can do what she likes, of course, except assume we are as stupid and shallow as she is.
Seriously the new conversation amongs young Hollywood celebrities is Kim Kardashian ?! Please.
Soooo are we just going to pretend that she’s not wearing a captain’s hat in that last pic?
I think we all just forget about that…
Honestly, my brain went to military – God knows what the symbol/patch is for haha.
It looks like the symbol for Delta airlines. But I don’t care enough to look it up, lol.
Hahaha! We’ve seen this picture before, though. I think it’s kind of a cute look! I like that she tries different things. Love the red hair, too.
Lol Cap’n Winter reporting for duty.
Oh I absolutely agree that if you think your message is reflected in a somewhat nude picture of you, that’s great. Go for it. Stand behind it. But I still don’t have to agree with that message. I do NOT agree with KK’s overall message, the one that tells young girls being famous for the sake of it is a legitimate career choice especially when it’s founded on nothing but your sometimes naked/sometimes dressed body parts. KK is famous for T&A and that’s IT. I have never heard her define that message differently so I guess what you see is what you get. Which is okay. I still don’t like it. And her constantly keeping us updated on her weight loss and dress size has nothing to do with body positivity. I have no opinion on Moretz. She’s a teenager. But I agree with Ariel Winter that it doesn’t matter why you’re using your body to sell something, be it a message or a product. If you do it, own it.
She’s talking about the interview her Mother gave about her decision to expose her breast reduction surgery scars.
Yep. She’s not even talking about Chloe. She’s talking about her mother.
This seems much more likely. Why else would she be referencing a “certain” interview? Absent this article, I would never have thought she was referring to Chloe. Her mom’s comments are much more relevant and it’s way more likely people would be asking her about that, rather than about Chloe’s views on KK…
Her mother gave an interview about that?!?! Ugh, poor girl.
Oh that’s just awful. I had no idea her mother did that.
Of course a woman can do what they want with their body. That doesn’t mean I have to buy their ridic reasons for their vapid nude selfies or give them any respect based on it.
^^This^^ Of course women can post what they want and do what they want with their bodies. But it doesn’t mean I won’t think they’re very thirsty and using their bodies for attention. No different than when a guy like Beiber posts ridiculous shots half dressed or less — sure he can do it, but I think he’s a tool.
But if you give or revoke respect for other human beings based on sexual modesty, gender, and what they have or haven’t done with their bodies, that’s not equality. The idea that women or any other marginalized group of people are only entitled to ‘respect’ based on what they won’t do sexually with their bodies is still an example of misogyny and inequality. So while people have the right to believe that some people are less than based on some traditional value, don’t be surprised when feminists call out that inequality.
I think respect is probably granted to people who have done something where the selfies aren’t the only thing defining them. If Kate Winslet posted a selfie, we’d still respect her for her acting career. With Kim, what else is there besides her selfies?
I wasn’t talking about the kind of respect that comes from admiration or approval (like admiring one celebrity because she’s talented and hard-working but not the other celebrity because she’s neither of those things and is vapid). I meant respect as in not treating a human being as less than or unequal because of beliefs about what they should and should not be doing with their bodies. Disliking someone and not approving of them ( or just not finding them worthy of praise and admiration) isn’t the same as saying they’re not worthy of the same respect as someone who conforms to your beliefs about what they should and shouldn’t be doing with their bodies.
Ugh, you and your lectures. You are exhausting.
Otaku is commenting just like everyone else. His or Her posts are a lot shorter than some — and well thought out. So, is it a situation where you can’t refute Otaku’s logic, but disagree with her opinion, so you go the ad hominem route? Sure seems that way.
I am tired of this child and her words of wisdom. I highly doubt she’ll be spending the next four years in college. I give it a couple of semesters.
I am so sick of celebrity women posting nearly naked pictures and calling it being “body positive”. Post a picture without great lightening, no makeup and at a regular angle then I will believe its a about promoting heatly body images otherwise its just a cry for attention
Nailed it Jade.
Exactly.
Posting ANY picture of yourself online is a cry for attention.
For a lot of people, particularly celebrities, it’s actually a business decision, or an encouragement to fans, which can help them get better roles and help the movies they are in earn more revenue.
You have the right to do whatever you want with your body and your photos, etc. But when you choose to do it in public, you have to prepare yourself for the possible criticism. And people have the right to disagree with your choices and the right to disagree in the same public forum. Don’t do or say something controversial in public then get offended by the controversy. As for the whole nudity = feminism argument… I doubt the early suffragettes were fighting for your right to be naked. You want to be naked? Fine. Be naked. But don’t claim it’s a feminist statement. It’s a personal statement.
To be fair, some of those early suffragettes were also supporters of Eugenics and ‘race improvement’, so there’s that ;). It was a very different time, with very different things of importance.
I agree with the overall message though – you can do what you want, but don’t be surprised when there is backlash/comments you don’t like. It’s the tradeoff you have to make for making things public.
Other than that though – half the negative comments aimed at people who do it are ridiculous. I don’t like when people start dictating WHO is doing it as a confident woman and who isn’t, or who has good intentions and who doesn’t. I think it’s ridiculous – we don’t KNOW what other people are thinking, and just because we see a certain side of someone doesn’t mean that all their intentions are bad, and it doesn’t mean that someone else’s intentions are always good.
“To be fair, some of those early suffragettes were also supporters of Eugenics and ‘race improvement’, so there’s that. It was a different time, with very different things of importance.”
This! In general, it’s not a good idea to make any one feminist or group of feminists (first-wavers, second-wavers the gold standard or the gatekeepers of feminism. Even when fighting for equality, people can still be products of the eras they grow up in and be influenced by the dominant beliefs about things like race, sexuality, and violence. Also, who says feminists can’t support women having the right to vote (oh wait, we already have that) AND support women rejecting the misogynistic ways society tries to push modesty (and accountability for male behavior) on them? You can definitely support an issue like reproductive freedom and support women challenging or rejecting respectability politics.
I think nudity *can* be a feminist statement, depending on the context and the messenger, but yes I agree that it’s not automatically so.
I also agree that it’s ridiculous to put a nude pic or a selfie or whatever out there with the expectation that all comments will be positive, particularly when you have 8 billion strangers following you on IG. The internet is a cruel place–this is not news.
You’re technically right that people have the right to publicly voice disagreement with what people do with their bodies- whether it’s getting an abortion, using birth control, posing nude, having sex with members of the same sex, having sex before marriage, having sex without being in a committed relationship, having sex with a certain number of people, wearing revealing clothes, waiting until marriage, choosing sterilization, choosing not to have a child, choosing to have a child, having an unplanned pregnancy at an early age, wearing makeup, wearing a religious head covering, not wearing a religious head covering, dressing conservatively, or any other decision a person might make with their bodies and share with the public through selfies, magazine photoshoots, interviews, books, or public appearances. But just because the public has that right, doesn’t mean people don’t also have the right to point out the sexisms or inequalities in those criticisms or (in the cases of celebrities, politicians, and bloggers) mock you for being a thirsty, backward prude. All of those decisions that people make with their bodies and share with the public could be controversial to people, but that doesn’t mean people who share those decisions with the public- or those who support peoples’ rights to make those decisions- have to silently accept whatever people say. And if other celebs are feeling a little self-righteous one day, and want to insert themselves into another celebrity’s whatever to get publicity and elevate themselves by proving how they’re ‘not like those other sl*ts’, there will be criticism for that.
Otaku Fairy, I’d just like to say thank you for consistently commenting on these kinds of posts. I always enjoy reading your comments!
You’re welcome, and thank you. I’m sorry that I was a little harsh in the past and kind of held you guys responsible for other people’s misogynistic comments in the past. It’s not fair to judge someone for what other people are saying. We can’t control everybody.
@Otaku fairy I always enjoy your commentary. However, I think a large part of our population has started crying isms and shaming and bullying as soon as they receive criticism of any form, including constructive. I personally see this with my SS all the time. He believes every feeling and reaction he has is ” right” and everyone else is wrong or bullying. In every relationship, including those with and through technology, you should understand there will be disagreement and sometimes misunderstanding. How you deal with that, and not always immediately blaming others and making yourself a victim, is an important part of learning to cope in life. I wish people were more discerning of the nuances.
This is my stance as well. I’ll just sit over here in the corner with you.
Did Kim K claim it was a feminist statement? I thought what happened is Kim K posted her pic and Chloe criticized her for being a bad role model to girls. I don’t think it matters why Kim posted her selfie. Good for her (I guess?) if she feels compelled to expose her body – for whatever reason. And yes Chloe also has a right to criticize Kim K. But I can’t help but think Chloe is being self-righteous and obnoxious and Kim K vapid and attention seeking. I hope we can move on from this silly story
This argument would be valid ,if the person we were talking about wasn’t so vain that her body is 80% nipped and tucked in some shape or form. This is a women who wears a trench coat in 80 degree weather just so we can’t she her “post baby body” until she’s gotten the fat cutoff.
I don’t care what Chloe or Ariel has to say. Nobody said “Kim you can’t pose naked” people did what Kim wanted, they reacted.
Though,because it wasn’t what she wanted to hear its a issue?
I was born with a body similar to Kim K’s and all my life I struggled with weight. It’s insulating some people would sit here and act like Kim put the picture out for some greater meaning. No ,she did not. The picture was old. So whatever.
Standing up for someone who changes everything she doesn’t like about herself. Is confidence?
I think that both Chloe and Arielle have points but its Kim K we are talking about. She posted an OLD photo of herself to try and get likes to further her brand. It had nothing to do with body positivity. Like everyone here is saying, if she was so confortable with herself she wouldnt be covering herself up with coats, and robes all the time. She wanted attention and she got it.
All I keep thinking is about how much Kim must be LOVING THIS.
Ariel is sending a positive message to young girls by going to college and getting an education, exactly what kind of a positive message is a nude selfie promoting?
Oh God- is this the future? Selfies are the absolute worse. “Debating” selfies is right there with it. Body positivity??? You must be joking. As someone commented- Kim sells her body- that’s her brand. It’s a marketing tool. I can appreciate that 18/19 year olds get caught up in more esoteric matters, but at the end of the day, Kim will do whatever to make herself seem ever “sexy”.
Ariel is a pretty woman with really quite awful style.
Eh, she’s young and experimenting. It could be much worse!
I think something everyone keeps forgetting is that Kim posted a YEAR OLD selfie. Kim didn’t post a photo of her current body in a promotion of body positivity. Kim posted a photo of her pre-baby body in an attempt at getting attention. Kim only started the “body positivity” thing once people called her out. Again, Kim was NOT promoting body positivity, she was promoting herself in an attempt to stay relevant while she was in hiding after the birth of her child.
If a woman wants to post a naked selfie, then go ahead, but own it. Own the fact that you did it for attention. Don’t hide behind “body positivity” and “feminism” when you get called out.
The more “feminist” thing Kim could have done in that situation was to own the fact that she was looking for attention. “Yes, I posted a naked selfie because I was looking for attention. That’s my right since it’s my body. Don’t like it, then don’t look.”
YASSSS!!! ^^^THIS Up Here^^^ ^5
I’m on Chloe’s side. Why do people ignore that the picture Kim posted was old? It was obvious not about body positive.
Also, the background does matter and it reflects how tasteful the overall message is.
I just think it is good to have young women exploring feminism and freely expressing their thoughts.
My thoughts. I could post a pic of myself in a bikini and I’m sure some of my “followers” and family would be like “Gee, Pinetree, you look great!” but I feel like it’s pathetic to do so. I have a cousin that does this on the regular. She even says things like “Hey I’m proud of my body! #body positivity” and it’s another flawlessly angled new pic of her with her flawless, fake tan and great-20-year old body. There’s only nice comments because of course the pic is only shared with friends/family.
That’s why I just eye-roll the whole nude or nearly-nude “body positivity” posts. Give me a break. these women don’t give a crap about body positivity. They care about…compliments. They want and crave, compliments. I think they would actually be UNHAPPY if body positivity became a thing because then they wouldn’t receive so much praise for their ‘superior’ bodies. I just find it odd that so many buy that this isn’t purely for attention. That’s why my cousin does it, that’s why Kim does it, that’s why I DON’T do it. Because although I’m sure i would get some compliments, I know everyone else (myself included) would just think it was pathetic and desperate-cry-for-attention.
And because I haven’t rambled enough…this is also why I don’t understand the whole selfie thing. I have so many “friends” on FB that constantly post selfies…just another DAILY super-close-up of their face, but since people will say “Oh my gosh you look sooo good” they keep doing it, because they want compliments. GET. A. LIFE!
That is all good and fine, but don’t get all butt hurt when people have opinions about doing anything you want.
I have serious questions about nude female pictures being considered as body empowerment and body positivity or personal freedom.
The pictures I looked at where all of commercial attractive women with body enhancements and lots of photoshopping. And women in childbearing age.
Could it be that being female nudes is frowned upon and exposing a female nude body to the public means one is controversual and in charge of said body and therefore emancipated?
And who are the most gainers of said nude female pictures? Men and very young teens? Does not sound like freedem to me.
Side question: Where are the empowering nude pictures of of not so commercial nude women who gave birth to children, without plastic surgery or photoshopping, women who don´t fit the picture of standard beauty. Nude shots of women with sagging breast, celluties, sagging skin?
Maybe empowering nude and body empowerment is only for the young, pretty ones.
Good bye, empowered feminism.
Only comment worth a read!
There actually have been women (famous and less famous or not famous at all) with different body types and ages who have done those kinds of photoshoots. But there’s more than one side to the whole body positivity/personal freedom issue. There’s the women not being ashamed about their bodies/feeling like they have to ‘put it away’ because of a certain feature they have or don’t have, and then there’s the rebel against modesty side of it, which could apply to women with any body type or age. When being told what they shouldn’t be doing with their bodies as women if they want to be considered good, moral, respectable, ladylike role models, some women find empowerment in not listening. It’s the kind of empowerment that comes from saying ‘no’ to a moral code that you disagree with- even if it’s only temporary. People don’t always have the luxury of being able to say no to somebody else’s values. But not all women are empowered by the same exact things.
I don´t know, I think, women empowerment, including body empowerment, is the road to feminism – we are in this together –equality – and not merely self-aggrandizement.
Nude women on the internet are not rare and are not provoking any new thoughts on body empowerment. To me, it is all, „look at me, I am so pretty and sexy“. Really nothing new.