The hours after the Brexit vote were pretty rough for everyone. The pound plummeted, international markets went haywire and the American stock exchange dropped by 600 points on Friday. It feels like the entire British political and economic system has collapsed in on itself. The EU is demanding a quickie divorce, mostly to stop the financial bleeding, but the Brexit vote will likely have years-long, possible decades-long repercussions. So is it so surprising that Brexiters now have Bregrets? Voters want a mulligan, Nigel Farage had to admit that he lied, and everyone is looking for some solution to this mess.
So why doesn’t Queen Elizabeth say something? Her country is in shambles, her people are in need of leadership. On Friday, Buckingham Palace said that the Queen will not be making any statements about Brexit, which is funny because everyone believed that the Queen was pro-Brexit. Maybe she was. But she’s probably not any more. So in lieu of the Queen actually saying something, we’re getting random people trying to explain what the Queen is thinking.
Queen Elizabeth started her morning with a historic phone call – and like much of Britain, she is likely still reeling from the day’s stunning turn of events. Prime Minister David Cameron rang the 90-year-old monarch at her Buckingham Palace home early this morning following the news that Britain had voted to leave the European Union. A short while later he made the trip from his official residence at 10 Downing Street to Buckingham Palace to personally inform the Queen of his intention to step down – something he announced in an emotional press conference at 8:15 a.m. Privately, she will be saddened by the turn of events, one of her biographers believes.
“She likes unity,” says Ingrid Seward, editor-in-chief of Majesty magazine and author of The Queen’s Speech. “The whole situation will worry her. She is 90, has lived through a world war and she doesn’t want any more change. She will be saddened and a little bit worried. She would think we partnered with Europe and we mustn’t let them down,” adds Seward. “The whole point of the EU was that we might be a united Europe and wars wouldn’t happen again.”
During the last few months, she was privately taking part in the debate at least – and was said by biographer Robert Lacey to have asked dinner party guests a leading question that suggested a certain skepticism about the EU, demanding “three good reasons why Britain should be a part of Europe.”
Today, she may have mixed feelings about the result – and she would certainly, insiders say, be fearful of the looming specter of another referendum on pro-Europe Scotland splitting away from the United Kingdom. As there was across much of Britain, there may have been a generational divide even within the royal family. The Queen’s grandson and heir, Prince William, seemed to signal his support for the union in a speech this spring, saying, “In an increasingly turbulent world, our ability to unite in common action with other nations is essential. It is the bedrock of our security and prosperity and is central to your work.” Aides denied he was talking about Europe. But as in past times of extreme uncertainty, the royal family may well be beacons of stability and assume greater visibility in the coming months.
“In these unchartered waters, they are the continuity and stability that the British people may be lacking,” Seward says. “People will look to them perhaps more than they would have done had it gone the other way. They may be needed more.”
What’s more, as the British economy takes a massive hit in the wake of the news, the royal family’s role in drawing tourist dollars is likely to prove more critical than ever.
“Tourism is a major industry and they help support that,” says Seward.
Some of this is what I said Friday – the Queen was not so much a Brexiter or a Bremainer, but a status-quo person who hates change. I think she probably leaned more towards Brexit, but maybe she didn’t realize the sh-tstorm that would happen if it actually went through. Now in her last years on the throne, she’ll likely see the United Kingdom split up, because Scotland’s independence honestly seems inevitable at this point. She’ll also have to oversee what will likely be another recession for Great Britain. Sure, “tourism” helps, and that’s the explanation we always get for why the monarchy still exists. But people would still come to England and visit the palace even if the Queen didn’t live there. I’m just saying… it’s not like no one goes to see Versailles.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Fame/Flynet and PCN.
The markets were overreacting and they will correct themselves. Don’t worry, financial doomsday isn’t here to stay!
Yay, the markets love nothing more than uncertainty.
I agree. The doom and gloom…but, we really don’t know what impact Brexit will have because no one has ever left the EU before. It isn’t as if the rest of the world is going to cut of the UK – the world’s 5th largest economy. Honestly…..
As for why the Queen hasn’t said anything, she’s prohibited from political interference. She can’t. Unless she decides to hell with it and goes all out to “save” Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The UK is 6th – we fell behind France, which is worrying because the French economy isn’t growing.
Except UK has been downgraded now France is the 5th largest economy.
A nation has left the EU before: Greenland, in 1984. They managed to secure a co-operative deal with Brussels which means they still get some money from the EU in exchange for quota fishing by other member states.
Greenland is so small though that any comparison between them and the UK is pretty meaningless. I fear Brussels will want to punish the UK to dissuade any other major nations (e.g. France, Italy, Netherlands) from leaving too.
Actually, there is nothing in the constitution that “forbids” the monarchy from making such a statement. Just look at how Prince Charles was quite willing to get involved in cultural arguments in the 1980s. They are almost certainly advised _not_ to make public comments, but they are not “forbidden” to do so. I find it very hard to believe indeed that the Queen was “pro-Brexit”, given her experience and great internationalism. The Sun headline was probably a bare-faced lie promulgated by the hideous Murdoch empire to sway public opinion. Had the Queen come out and denied that headline, she may well have swayed public opinion. Who knows…. The only conclusion we can draw from all of this is that the entire situation is a huge mess, the referendum was absolutely unnecessary – driven by self-serving political interest on the part of Cameron – and now that the horrific ramifications are emerging, many are back-pedalling like crazy. Cameron announced his resignation without invoking Article 50, which he had stated he _would_ do; thereby making it the future problem, responsibility, and headache of the next Prime Minister. And what leader wants to take his/her people even further down the path of doom?
Funny that they were the only country not to switch to the euro but remain with pounds. Euro $ was biggest mistake, it hurt so many countries.
It will be very interesting to see if the Uk will keep its 6th position now that it is no longer going to be a part of the bigger European market. Would big companies and investors want to remain rooted in their London/Uk bases or prefer a country more involved with the huge market that is the Eu?
I ask honestly.
To me, the Uk seems to still have an unrealistic view of itself as a country: they are no longer an empire, capable of influencing many countries in one fair swoop, they do not have raw materials to entice other markets with (save from some oil extracting going on in their seas, which is still not enough to make a substantial difference in the brit economy)… England’s biggest appeal in these past decades has been being a financial center for exchanges, based on the fact that they were part of the Eu, but still maintained their own currency. What now?
Sure, the markets will correct themselves soon and be back to quasi normalcy, for a while, in the short term; but I think that then, slowly, all companies will pull out of their Uk investments and look for a new, more relevant financial and economic pole.
If you say so.
This is not overreaction and hopefully the EU will pull together and show leadership because the UK is surely lacking. The global economy has not fully recovered from the 2008 crisis and Brexit will likely kick off a global recession. Perhaps if the leaders actually had a plan or if they quickly pulled one together but no their plan is to delay all actions while twiddling their fingers. I truly feel bad for the Remain camp – must be hard to swallow that your entire future (for many their employment and financial security) was mandated by 37% of your fellow citizens (i.e. 72% voter turnout = 37% actual votes for Brexit).
Really good article: https://www.project-syndicate.org/onpoint/has-brexit-undermined-the-west-by-philippe-legrain-2016-06
My father in law is a financial adviser and he pretty much shrugged his shoulders over all this and said, “eh short term chaos”. He wasn’t too worried about the long term effects. His opinion was that once the dust settles and people sit down and sort everything out, Britain will probably be okay. He’s not infallible but he’s been in the business a long time so he may have a point.
Yeah, my father is also a bank clerk and says in the long term, things will sort themselves out… But in the meantime, things will be complicated..
These things do sort themselves out over time, but time can mean 30-40 years. Even with a best case scenario, this is going to create a lot of instability for at least 5 years, and then there’s going to be a decade or so of catching back up. It’s going to be fine for a lot of people, but it’s going to ruin others and make life very hard for the younger generation.
American stock market was down 500 Friday and down again today 260 points. Yes, it may correct but that takes time for it to stabilize. Some investors buy when stocks are this low , but who knows where the bottom of the market is.
Predictions for a global recession say some analysts.
So wish this hadn’t happened. What is the possible upside of this exit?
They sure did stick it to the Man. That is literally it.
Yeah, right. I’m living on my 401(k), and it’s tanking. I’m not going to stop eating and paying my utilities until the markets manage to correct themselves.
I love the idea that the unelected Royal Family will step in to calm the uncertainty caused by…people wanting to “take back control” from the “undemocratic” EU.
Sounds like a monarchist writer’s fantasy rather than fact, imo. There would be riots in the street if the royals starting putting their oar in.
As cynical as it sounds I think the Queen only cares about two things: Will this affect the quality of her very comfortable life? And will this damage her legacy after she dies? The Queen controls her image (and her press) in ways Prince William can only dream about.
Yup. I’m very interested in the biographies that will come out about 5-10 years after she passes away. She is incredibly protected.
Yeah, she’s not going to say anything and nor should she.
I disagree. The Queen decided long ago never to interfere, because it was easier, not because it was right. The Queen famously does not like conflict or confrontation. She has, and will, go to enormous lengths to avoid unpleasantness. Even at the expense of the country she claims to serve.
No. She is constitutionally disallowed.
There is plenty that she could do that is allowed. Look at Prince Charles. He cares enough to figure out ways to help people. He’s not just sitting around planning newer and bigger ways to celebrate himself. The Queen is selfish, rigid and unbending. That’s right – I went there.
Oh, Red Snapper. Say it how you see it! It’s not as though I rate her either. But Chuck can get away with stuff as he is not actually the monarch. Betty CANNOT come out with a political position. It would be unconstitutional. As I said below, what she CAN do, is come out with a public message of reassurance and/or a plea for calm.
But it’s not the POPULACE who are in a state of collapse over this. It’s the political establishment. And those people, she can’t do anything at all about. Nor should she be able to.
She should at least show unity for her country and not necessarily speak about Brexit and politics but rather try to unite the deeply fragmented country.
Prince Charles doesn’t have more freedom than his mum. He just approaches the role/power/usefulness of the monarchy in a wildly different way. He sees it as a potential force for good, and she sees it as something to be stoically endured. Can anyone name even one thing she’s done to improve the life of her subjects? That’s a serious question.*
*for the love of god don’t say tourism. Ain’t no one got time for that.
Honestly, Red Snapper, you’re wrong.
Firstly, I rate neither the monarchy nor ER herself. I think the institution should go and she has been pretty rubbish at the job – if we must have it, it should have been properly modernised and she has, as you say, opted for inertia.
But this has nothing to do with her obligations and limitations as a constitutional monarch. She CANNOT come out on one side or other of a political issue. It would be unconstitutional. She is not allowed to do this. She can ONLY express the will of parliament. That’s it. It is completely, totally, utterly unconstitutional for her to attempt to influence the will of parliament. That is the ENTIRE point of a constitutional monarchy.
What Sixer said. She absolutely cannot start putting her oar in. It is simply not permitted. Our constitution is unwritten, but everyone agrees on this, from the far left to the far right.
Sixer – Sorry, I wasn’t being clear. I wasn’t talking about politics. I was thinking (but not expressing clearly) the human element to all this. The fears, uncertainty and misery is real, and not just about Brexit. Has the Queen celebrated the contributions of immigrants, or tried to stifle racism? No. She’s only got time for corruption soaked birthday parties for herself. There is much she could do that has nothing to do with politics, but would do much to help her country.
In that case, we agree! She can go out and ask everyone not to panic and be reassuring. And likely she won’t until forced to. And yes, that is not to her credit.
“He’s not just sitting around planning newer and bigger ways to celebrate himself”
A. Men! Red Snapper!
I’ve been thinking about this since last night, and a really good apolitical leader would be coming out quoting some world leaders about hate, immigration, national unity, etc…. She’s head of the COE so she should throw some Biblical “love thy neighbor” stuff in there, and if she was feeling particularly racy, she could point out that the other major religions contain the same sentiments.
She doesn’t have to say a damn thing about the politics of the situation, but to have her sitting there saying nothing just underlines her uselessness.
I am interested in the whole discussion regarding whether or not the Monarch “may” speak out. I think Tina put it well when she pointed out that the “constitution is unwritten but everyone agrees on this.” So, in other words, as I posted up-thread, there is nothing that specifically _forbids_ her from speaking out – in whatever form that might take. Government and parliament’s role is to exercise power “on behalf of the monarch and through powers formally possessed by the monarch.”. Clearly, and based on long tradition, the royal family has grown accustomed to keeping out of politically charged issues, realising the dangers therein – and the public has come to expect that they will do so.
Thought: if and when Scotland secedes, how will Queenie cross the border to Balmoral, with her corgis in tow? Won’t she have to put them into EU-regulated quarantine for ages? (note: sarcasm).
Macscore – the constitution is unwritten but this doesn’t mean either that it doesn’t exist or that it is unspecific. Our constitution is a combination of conventions, legislation and jurisprudence. And it mandates that the monarch is personally politically neutral and constitutionally the mouthpiece of the will of parliament.
I was very curious about what the Royals would think…if this would end up being good or bad for them, but I assume their feelings are the same as the public. The young ones were for remaining and the older royals saw the benefits of leaving.
The most amazing part of all of this to me, is that Ireland might become one nation again. That. Is. Epic.
–TheRealPinky
No it wont
I agree with @Sonja. Too much bad blood. But Scottish independence is definitely happening, which is pretty incredible.
Definitely????? When, exactly?
@ Manjit
As soon as Bozo and Govey enact Article 50. Don’t believe for a moment that Sturgeon won’t do it. She, unlike them, is a woman who means what she says.
Oh, I know it’s a strong possibility. My objection was to the use of the word “definitely”. If there’s one thing we should have learned in the past week, it’s that nothing is ever really definite when it comes to the UK electorate.
The Tories had no chance of winning the last election and “Remain” was going to have a slim majority. It’s dangerous to underestimate the British ability to shoot ourselves in the foot. We’ve done it twice in the past 18 months.
‘Definitely’ is a word we shouldn’t be bandying about in the current political climate. Look at Catalonia in Spain; they have an referendum pretty much every year asking for independence, and the main Spanish government turns them down repeatedly. The Scots will likely try harder for independence this time but there’s no guarantee that they will get it; Sturgeon’s already talking about Holyrood ‘blocking’ Brexit, despite there being no legal power for Holyrood to veto.
Agreed, Pinky. It’s jyst a possibility, though, and certainly not a given.
Never gonna happen…
And Scotland. It is Very very likely that Scotland will seek independence.
Would that be more of a risk for the monarchy? Does anyone know if the monarchy will be here when William becomes King? Also, doesn’t this mean Will and Kate have to step up their work load now because of BREXIT?
I’ve always hoped for a re-united Ireland.
But Pinky, I don’t think Brexit offers the best chance of an orderly transition, particularly when we have the Conservative Party in charge of the UK. They are allied with the loyalist parties (in some cases with an electoral pact where the Conservatives don’t stand) and are not seen as honest brokers. Politics in NI often deteriorate when the Conservatives are in charge of the UK and some elements of the loyalist factions are the closest thing we have here to your religious right. They are intransigent.
What must be avoided at all costs is a return to violence.
I agree. Hate to say it, but the IRA were the OG terrorists. (After 9/11, that cease fire happened pretty quick–who wants to be lumped in with “THAT crowd.”)
The instability that this vote has caused, and which continues to ripple across the globe, is astonishing. Anti-everyone sentiment seems to be on the rise, and radicals with mandates and weapons are feeling emboldened. Dark times ahead.
–TheRealPinky
I totally agree, Sixer. One of my first thoughts on hearing the news about Brexit was “what about Ireland”? That peace was so hard-fought, and it took years of careful negotiations to achieve the cease-fire. The fact that there is no physical border between N. Ireland and the Republic is a huge, huge, huge accomplishment. If Brexit really does go through – still an “if” at this point – there’ll be the Republic, part of the EU; and N. Ireland, part of the “UK” or whatever it will be called, outside the Schengen region – so, a border will have to be re-made between the two. Massive shame.
Huge, huge shame.
Neither the UK or Ireland are in the Schengen area. If UK stays in the single market, there won’t be a border.
This string of tweets, from a Northern Irish person, provides the best explanation I’ve read of the situation: https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/747362070576898048
Thanks for that, Tina. Unpleasant reading but on point.
Yes, thank you for that read.
–TheRealPinky
Thanks Tina. Very, very interesting.
As an citizen I hope not.we can’t afford northern ire!and.
This comment on the Guardian is going viral. It’s pretty amazing:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten … the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was “never”. When Michael Gove went on and on about “informal negotiations” … why? why not the formal ones straight away? … he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Thank you for the article…very interesting…
@Farah
Read Bozo’s piece in the Telegraph today – utterly weird and stupid. Appears to be in absolutely no hurry to enact Article 50 because he knows what will happen.
Companies all over Britain are waiting for that announcement so that they can make theirs and he knows it. Those who are going to take flight already know it, they just want Bozo and Govey to blink first.
That article was insane. Boris says we can have freedom of movement in the EU and access to the single market as well as controls on incoming immigration and a bonfire of EU laws. This is quite simply impossible.
We can maybe have an EEA deal like Norway (if I were running the negotiation from the other side I wouldn’t offer it to us) which would get us access to the single market but we would have no controls on immigration or ability to influence the EU laws to which we would still be bound.
Boris has to understand that he’s not bamboozling the electorate any more, he would be negotiating with people who are much smarter and tougher than he is.
@ Tina
Exactly! So what exactly did Brexiters vote for?? Can Bozo please explain that?
One of their main gripe was wanting freedom of movement in the EU to end. It won’t. Danniel Hannan admitted as much on Newsnight – so what will they tell Brexiters?
Exactly! My thinking is we have to either pray for an EEA type outcome (where the Brexiters don’t get anything freedom of movement-wise, which would infuriate them as that is what they voted for) or we’re out-out. No freedom of movement on either side, no access to the common market without paying for it. Anything else would be an utter betrayal of democracy. I hate it, but that’s where we are.
It’s a really good comment.
And quite incredible that the Brexiters are, far from being united, without a Plan A, let alone a Plan B.
BritAfrica – I’m holding out hopes for an EEA deal, which at least would see little change – including freedom of movement! – but would address a portion of the Brexiters agenda such as austerity enforced by treaty regarding a central bank we don’t share, and the ability to rescue our own industries when in trouble. I don’t think there’s much to fear for Remainers if we keep the single market, do you?
@ Sixer
Let’s hope you’re right on the EEA deal because let’s face it, if Britain doesn’t get it, Scotland is gone. And Sweden/France may want the same deal as well to calm their electorates.
I honestly believe the Tory party have sold austerity as being an EU thing – I don’t think it is. It’s a Tory thing. Same with rescuing Redcar steelworks, again it was the Tories who primarily did not want to step in. They used the EU as a scapegoat again saying EU competition laws prevented intervention.
Now they will not be able to use the EU this way so it’s all going to be very interesting to see what Bozo and Govey come up with next time a company is on the verge.
Oh, and BTW, that much ballyhooed £350m a week we are going to ‘save’ for the NHS was just an ‘aspiration’ apparently. Poor doctors/nurses……..getting shafted by the Tories yet again!
Yes to all of this.
I can’t stand Theresa May (horrible authoritarian woman) but I’m crossing everything that she is playing the game of her life and will emerge as new PM. Best chance of all of this happening, I think. Please not Boris. Please not Gove. Please not IDS.
Thanks for posting, this really puts thing in perspective. It’s crazy to me that Brexiters didn’t actually think they had a shot at winning and now they don’t know what to do next.
@Brea @Sixer @BritAfrica
I can’t believe what these morons have done. Not even a full day after the vote, Farage admitted to lying. It’s insane this is actually real life.
It is insane.
We have put a primed nuclear bomb not only under own economy, but Europe’s and the world’s too. AND THEY DIDN’T EVEN HAVE A PLAN.
@ Farah
Believe it. This is the Tory party at it’s finest. Full of toffs who will call a referendum to win the party leadership and lie in said referendum to oust the current leader to steal the leadership.
Not a party I’m ever likely to vote for again. I’ve only got myself to blame – my bad.
BTW, Sixer, I read the Liz Mckenzie articles, thanks for posting the links.
Pause for thought, weren’t they, BritAfrica?
I have been avoiding the internet all weekend out of despair. Despair for my country and despair for my party. They have brought this all on themselves.
@ Sixer
Indeed, very sobering but very true. Take my own family as an example. All second generation Brits born here. First generation Mom & Dad went back to Nigeria to retire in late 1990s.
5 kids in all, 3 of us are qualified professionals in Banking, IT and Teaching. 2 of us are in unskilled labour jobs, Retail and Security. The 2 in question voted for Brexit and they are staunch Labour voters. So how did Labour manage to lose their votes? Labour advised them to vote Remain so why didn’t they? What are they so unhappy about?
It’s going to be a tough one for the Labour party to figure out because they are not in power so cannot actually do ANYTHING to change things on the ground for these voters. So these voters have, in effect, voted for a right-wing Tory government which will ensure more of the same – very very bizarre!
@ Tina
I was the same so I totally get you. Had to watch movies because I was so down and couldn’t face the internet. Very, very sobering, this thing we’ve done.
BritAfrica
I think a great many people were voting on their feelings of disenfranchisement. I was NO fan of New Labour but they were certainly better at keeping those feelings contained, despite pursuing broadly similar economic policies to anything the Tories are doing. Also, the sense of disenfranchisement has increased exponentially since 2008. We went from failing to limit migration from new accession EU countries to soften that impact, to MPs expenses, to bailing out banks and imposing austerity.
It should have been blindingly obvious to Cameron that there was a tinderbox waiting and no referendum involving constitutional change should be on the basis of a simple majority. On the Labour side, it should have been obvious to the PLP that they were out-of-step with their heartlands and, whatever you think of Corbyn’s politics, the constant attacks on him from the other side of the party were only going to make them even more out-of-step.
I think the whole thing shows the disconnect between Westminster (politics and media) and everybody else. It’s horribly, horribly sad. And disastrous for most of us – most Leave voters included. It’s also let the xenophobes, who may well be relatively few, but who can do social damage disproportionate to their number, out of the box.
I mean, did they think a million people using foodbanks and forty years of deindustrialisation wouldn’t have any effect on this kind of plebiscite?
We are lions led by lambs.
@BritAfrica
and everybody, here, too… yes, sad, sad, sad and shocking seismic upheaval…
but you mentioned, in reference to your family members who vote Labour, that “Labour advised them to remain” – as far as I can see, Labour (and Corbyn in particular) did sod all to promote a “Remain” vote loud and clear. He was lukewarm and ambiguous at best – total lack of leadership.
And it’s not only the “political establishment” that’s reeling and crumbling from all of this; the youth of England has every right to be _furious_ about the fact that their country has now potentially been economically demoted and their chances for a better, integrated future destroyed by a campaign based on lies (yes, you, Farage) and the wilful dissemination of fear.
@ Sixer
So true. Labour has a long way to go to explain what is going on to its voters. But since it is currently in meltdown that explanation is not going to happen any time soon!
@ Macscore
I agree and they wanted to give the PLP/the government a bloody nose but they are going to be the ones bleeding soon so I still don’t get what they were thinking. The end is not going to justify the means for them.
Wow, that’s an amazing comment, very smart…
The Brexiters are now facing a major problem…
Seward and Lacey don’t actually know what the Queen feels about Brexit but good luck to them for getting paid for their suppositions. Perhaps “People” would like to interview me about next Saturday’s National Lottery numbers. I have no idea what they’ll be but I’m happy to talk about the possibilities.
Seward beats the Windsor drum because it keeps her in business. HM lived through a world war? 70 years ago. Has nothing in the ensuing 70 years taught her about hatred, violence, the need for cooperation? None of the other wars that have happened since rate a mention to Seward?
The official tourism authorities admit the royals do not bring in tourism revenue. They’re a wash on that front.
I could see the BRF supporting Brexit privately. Eventually the EU may look around at the remaining monarchies and say with authority, “What on earth are you doing here? Your countries can stay but you people and your tiaras are out of luck.” Much like the post WWI elimination of royal and noble titles in certain European countries.
Boris Johnson already said they are are not going to leave. It was a huge bluff that did not work.
He hasn’t said that. He’s still lying about what leaving would entail (having our cake and eating it too, which is not going to happen).
At this point i’m not sure Brexit will really happen. Uk’s top politicians are in hiding. They don’t know what to do now. I have this feeling neither Farage nor Bobo Johnson thought Leave would win. They played the big loud PR drum for themselves and lied to the people without true plans for the future. It was all about paroles and Image cultivation while being sure nothing will change.
“They played the big loud PR drum for themselves and lied to the people without true plans for the future.” Chapter 1 of Donald Trump’s The Art of Running for President.
The problem is that the EU isn’t in the mood for ” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqH21LEmfbQ ”
It’s a too expensive game for the EU…
I expect the Queen is shaking in her pumps. If so many people want out from under the expense and control of the EU, how must they feel about the monarchy?
I do wonder if this is the slow end to most of the “United” part of the United Kingdom. Doesn’t N.I. export a ton of food to the EU? Scotland, at least, seems for sure to be headed down the road of independence. Even if Wales heavily voted to leave, they had so much money invested in various projects from the EU. If the economy tanks, will the independence movements rise?
Agree about Versailles. For all the talk about the royal family generating money, they also include places like the Tower of London and the castles into it….I’m pretty sure people would still go to the Tower of London even if there wasn’t a queen.
That’s what I think too. It sure seems like the seeds are being sown for such a thing to happen. I’ll even go farther and say this is probably the beginning of the end for the British monarchy. When the Queen dies, I think there will be some serious reconsideration of the cost/benefit of the royal family. Especially since the younger generation is generally seen as lazy and useless.
That is what I was thinking as well. I think once The Queen dies and even before then the monarchy is at great risk being gone. I really hate BREXIT
I thought she was supposed to refrain from expressing any political opinion whatsoever..?
I’m curious as to what the feeling is in England right now. Because it looks like there is some serious regrets on how this turned out.
My brothers there and essentially he put it like this “the well off working people (upper middle class) are freaking out. The people who were scraping by are excited.” I read that most of the London banking jobs are planning to uproot to Paris, so I’m almost afraid to watch this play out. I live and work in DC and everyone i know here thinks it was a huge mistake. People I know outside of DC seem to see it as a “People taking back their country in the name of freedom” which, forgive me, I find a little rich as an Irish woman.
Having spent the weekend thinking about it, I think the crux of the Leave vote was the result of 40+ years of general elections fought on the basis of winning swing voters in the south east of England and disregarding everybody else. It’s a cry of rage against the establishment.
The sad flip side of that is that the dog whistles employed in the campaign have let out the xenophobes, racists and ugly nationalists that we had kept pretty much corralled for a very long time. And that is one hell of a Pandora’s Box.
To me it is amazing how many people voted against their self interests – leaving the EU was not necessarily a bad idea BUT leaving without ever hearing an actual plan was irresponsible and even spiteful. Ultimately though this a failure of leadership by the EU Commission and UK political leaders. They missed the pulse of a good number of people although it’s not half of the UK because the numbers are misleading. If you break down the #s for Brexit and voter turnout (72%) then it was 37% of the citizens that voted to leave. Shame on the 28% that didn’t bother to show up because they could have made a difference even if only to demonstrate that it was a true majority that wanted Brexit.
Not sure if you guys have seen this … the amount of racism and attacks on non-whites since the vote is increasing. it’s really heartbreaking
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075
Their primary targets are Eastern Europeans.
Not just. I have lots of pakistani / indian origin friends there who are really being given a hard time. But you are right, perhaps “non-whites” was not the right term to use here.
Not just non-whites. Like Toni said, it’s the Poles and the Romanians – and even the French and the Italians, etc etc etc – that the ugly people want to go home.
agreed, see my message above. “non whites” was not the right term to use. My bad
No problem. I’m particularly sensitive to this one, having a good number of Polish friends. Don’t take it as my saying race isn’t an issue and this referendum (also the London Mayoral election) hasn’t let all the racists out of the bag. Cos it has. But there are plenty of white people affected too.
The Polish centre in Hammersmith got attacked with racist graffiti overnight. Never happened before until now said Police. I am so sad for my country. Polish soldiers stood with us and fought for our side in WW2 and now this.
On Twitter, a parent reports being told by his daughter how a Romanian girl in her school was abused on the girls toilet wall and told to ‘go home’.
This is Brexit Britain in reality for some people today in 2016.
I saw those tweets earlier, and a chill went down my spine. The sheer amount of hatred and ignorance and spite that are being unleashed… it’s really terrible that these people now feel somehow legitimated. We’re living in dark times. I am a young Italian woman, so I’ve seen it from both sides: I’ve witnessed how racist my fellow countrymen can be against “bad” foreigners, and I’ve been the “bad” foreigner while living abroad. Sometimes I found myself thinking that I’m lucky enough that my fair complexion and traits do not “betray” my origins right away – that just shouldn’t happen. I’m incredibly worried for the future.
Oh Bianca, I stand with you and hope for a sensible outcome to all this horror.
Only 25/30 years ago me and my kind were the ‘bad’ migrants but now we are 2nd generation and are considered Ok – and still only to some.
Change will come. Here’s hoping Bozo and Govey recognise that they need to move quickly to calm everything down.
@ BritAfrica: thank you for your words. It’s comforting to read (almost) sensible discussion going on around here. Negativity will always draw more attention – but it’s important to remind yourself that, in fact, there are many decent people out there. One thing I really hope is that those people who tweeted about being witness to racist attacks did something about it. I know it’s SO difficult to speak up in such circumstances, and often even dangerous. Nonetheless, it’s extremely important to SAY something, to DO something.
This is just all so bloody awful.
These types of comments have been recurrent, but now people just feel more entitled to make it. A friend of mine is a teacher in the UK and once, a parent of one of his students told him to go back to Portugal, because her son had a bad mark…
This is scary and what is scarier is that I don’t see how it can be stopped now that it’s been unleashed.
Even if they find a way to keep the UK in EU, the hate won’t go away.
My instinct- and intuition-warning bells are going off the charts right now… What could the Brexit vote prefigure for the US election in November? Horrifying. Simply horrifying.
After reading both sides, it’s still up in the air whether Brexit will be good or bad. Only time will tell honestly, though an initial recession seems likely. I’m not going to outright dismiss the Leave campaigners or the vote outcome. UK is not a weak nation. But I am tickled that there seems to be no concrete exit strategy or plan for UK ministries before the vote except to curb immigration (do correct me if I’m wrong). My guess is those strategies will be presented in the next two years. Right now, the Leave campaigners online presence seem silent…it’s like after the champagne toasting and PM resigning, they’re looking at one another and asking now what…eh I thought you had the plans…no I thought you had the exit strategy…no you said you were gonna think of the plans…no wait…
And the Queen is just sitting there with her corgis, pursing her lips and thinking who she should whack with her handbag. Have some chutney in the meantime, Your Majesty.
YES! That’s what I find amazing too! And the EU is pushing them to begin formal exit meetings TOMORROW.
Which is BS because no-one can force the UK to trigger article 50. They can posture and threaten and bluster, but only the PM or UK parliament can trigger article 50.
And in the meantime, UK remains part of the EU.
@LAK, but postponing the decision to trigger or not article 50 will only continue to damage the markets, the financial world, not just but mostly the UK’s finances…
A decision has to be made asap in order to get the British financing in order as soon as possible…
I hope the EU is able to increase the amount of money they get from the UK or penalize them in some way for not triggering Article 50. Not out of spite but to get the ball going – the EU will suffer the instability and they should not suffer this just because the Leave campaign lacked an actual strategy. If they are going to suffer the economic uncertainty then I hope they get the UK to pay for it. Not sure if they can but I can hope.
And that’s the problem. The English were all yelling at EU at any given opportunity, blaming it for everything, they voted out but now they don’t want out and they are bringing even more uncertainty which will cause worse consequences for the economy but the English don’t care about anyone but themselves.
So they went on Facebook so to speak and announced the divorce.. but don’t want to actually file the papers.. And the other party is suppose to just sit back and wait..
If you want out then get to stepping.. The EU may want to start dating again..
** obviously joking.. but how sad for the citizens of the UK. These people should have been prepared for this.. and the people of the UK should have been better informed. Slogans and catchy phrases do not a plan make.
England is acting like a woman who wants to resign from a club because she doesn’t like the rules, the dues or the members, but she still expects to be able to enjoy the use of the club’s facilities after she leaves. Sorry, but it doesn’t work like that.
Sorry Your Majesty, your PM Cameron rolled the dice and now it’s too late! Brexit it is – with all the ensuing chaos to follow.
Comeon Bozo and Govey, enact Article 50, I dare you!
But the status-quo was the UK in EU just like it has been until now.
This is a huge leadership failure.
Exactly, and it looks like that ain’t gonna change anytime soon.
Bozo says in the Telegraph that all EU citizens in the UK are protected – meaning, happily, that they are going nowhere. So what exactly did Brexiters vote for??
I DON’T THINK they knew. That’s why Brexit became such a badly written tragedy, now all the people in the country, voted or not voted, having to live with it.
Look up at post number 13 by SnazzyisAlive. That is what Brexiters voted for. It is horrific. And it is official.
I don’t think UK will leave the EU either, one way or another they will stay connected but the main effect was triggered, the hate is official and no one can take it back. The Brexiters voted to get the second hand Europeans and all the other immigrants out. Sad.
Not counting the already important political and financial impact of this referendum, Cameron divided his country and unleashed xenophobia. How do you fix that?
I really have no idea what the Queen thinks and I doubt these people do. However, I don’t believe for a second that she didn’t know what Brexit would mean for the UK. The woman knows.
I find it despicable and also hilarious how these loud-mouthed politicians are behaving right now. Hilarious because it’s Monday and the schadenfreude makes it more bearable but despicable because if this is what the people wanted, DO IT. I’m still very much against the UK leaving but the results are pretty clear.
Hear…..hear….
Go on Bozo……….DO IT!
I don’t think HM is worried at all. Her real focus is the “cohesiveness” of the Commonwealth.
Besides, any changes in the near future will likely fall to William, not Charles.
HM, knowing William, has likely put certain measures in place. She’s a smart cookie.
We all know William will not make a good king at all. I so want Harry as King
Her Maj might be called out to call for calm. But she won’t say a word on the politics of the matter or the constitutional decisions.
This ^^ for anyone who still questions about QE’s roles in crisis such as Brexit.
Her big move days before the Scottish vote was to go to church Sunday morning in Scotland with Charles and William. Sort of a “Hi, here we are. Three generations. You love us, remember?” tour.
Wm took the opportunity to dump his newly-pregnant-and-claiming-HG wife to go hunting for a few days in Scotland before the church appearance. Oh what a caring husband.
I do not expect much out of HM right now.
Oh god, do you ever get tired of this? *eyeroll*
Personally I think it would be crucial for the Queen to say something the face of all this uncertainty.
I’m just munching my popcorn and enjoying the idiotism and chaos involved and followed by Brexit. Heck, maybe we even manage to start WW3 eventually.
Why does anyone want to stay in the EU? I think we’ll see more countries opting out. Massive immigration hasn’t helped. Racism has become worse over the years. Europe is a mess. People who have been forced from their homes from other countries are not embracing their new homes. The culture is too different and they certainly aren’t embracing the Europes. Brexit has caused temporary hysteria but like any upset it will calm down.
It’s only brought 60+ years of postwar stability to a region that had spent the previous 40 years fighting two devastating world wars. You can argue that it has expanded too quickly post-Communism and that a common currency was a mistake (both of which I believe) but the EU has been an overall force for good in the region. It is a terrible pity that UK voters have taken out their ire on the EU, when there are many other more direct causes of their woes (globalisation, austerity) that the Remain camp should have explained much more clearly.
I don’t think we will leave. The minute they activate Article 50 they have two years and after that we’re out even if we haven’t reached agreements on all the billion and one things that need to be detangled. It’s becoming increasingly clear that no one in politics ever thought Brexit would win, and there is no Brexit leave plan.
The referendum was only advisory, not legally binding, and it was so close, I expect they’ll hold a second referendum. It’s pretty commonplace to have multiple referendums (referenda?).
Watching the shenanigans from across the pond and wondering what on earth you guys have gotten yourselves into. It looks like you’ve taken a Howitzer and shot yourselves in the foot. Hope it doesn’t leave you crippled for life.
This is certainly one for the history books.
Oh, English might stop being an official language within the EU, apparently Malta chose Maltese ( do we say it like this?) as official language and Ireland the Gaelic… So English is no longer necessary…
Not going to happen. Europe isn’t the whole world and English is everywhere..
Oficial languages are the mother tongues inside the EU… Not the most spoken everywhere… Otherwise you wouldn’t have Maltese and Gaelic, would you?
Who cares what the official language is? English will always be taught as a second language or learned no matter where you live. People travel a lot now and it’s spoken all over the world. Even in small islands in the middle of nowhere.
Well actually it is compulsory for the EU countries to learn the English language. It is a global one, so yeah it is always there to stay.
When brits will be gone, Germany would become the largest English speaking country in the EU.
I was wondering about that myself. But they might keep Euroenglish as a lingua franca. Yes, it’s really a different flavor of English now, one more thing to cause trouble in my translation work (I translate from some European languages into US English and often use EU documents in the official languages for reference).
English has never seemed to me to be the best choice if you’re not a native speaker, but for historical reasons we might be stuck with it. Sometimes when people need to translate documents from less common languages into another less common one, they need to have the original first translated into English and then translated into the final target language. It gets complicated finding translators between many languages who know enough about the subject area.
Can I just say one of the 6569786 reasons I love celebitchy…I can read incredibly well thought out, insightful opinions on major world economic events and learn a great deal….and then laugh my ass off at Taylor swift as Shy Di poseur posts in one quick click? I love this and I love you guys!
That’s my reason for visiting Celebitchy regularly as well. My husband thinks it’s for Hollywood gossip, but it’s actually for the comments and the sarcasm.
Sorry but the rest of europe we are tired of this situation . If you vote out you have to do it and quickly. The last days i was reading some comments in several newspaper online and english people were angry because EU leaders want to start the process the next week, and they were complaining about EU leaders and nation and say we are dictators, well your are the only one who want to get out so do it .
It’s like a couple,my boyfriend say me :
i don’t want to be with you anymore, we’re going to break, i don’t want you, you are the worst etc,
– ok
-so i’m going to leave the house ,
– ok, i say go , go away quickly- but he said
– nooo no no no, i leave the house when i want, how i want and meanwhile i going to cheat on you with other countries and you can’t do anything and of course you have to pay household expenses do what i want and if you don’t do it called you dictator
I am so sorry that we have put you in this position and I agree it is ridiculous, but Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is very clear. Only the exiting nation can begin the process, and it must do so in accordance with its constitutional requirements. We do not have a written constitution but it does exist. If it makes you feel any better, we do still have to contribute financially according to our obligations until we actually leave.
@Tina: yes of course. But you also have to understand that if the exiting country drags its feet without concern for the turmoil it has created…then it is legitimate for the EU to take it into its own hands.
UK was always the difficult member of the EU, and as Sparrowgirl said at some point patience worn out.
UK called us many names, and always painted us as the evil union, refraining its “independence and sovereignty” and such and such, ok so now you voted out… so please leave without drama. it was UK choice, so at least have a responsible way of conduct throughout it.
The europeans (not EU) got tired and public opinions toward Britain had grown quite negative (particularly after seing how badly EU citizens were treated in the uK) so it’s not a matter of choice anymore : either the UK do it with dignity …or the EU will do it more roughly (fully supported by its population), sometimes rules can have exceptions (and UK knows perfectly about this , as every chapter for every rules in any EU legislation has its “UK exceptions”)
You wanted out! well now no more suspense… just out
Sorry you’ve put us in “this position?” You mean people all over the world losing their savings? Britain doesn’t rule the world anymore, and no one has to defer to them any longer. The British have shot themselves in their collective feet, let them deal with it!
I didn’t draft the Lisbon Treaty, and I didn’t call the referendum or vote to leave the EU. Blame the people who did those things.
@Tina: We are!! It wasn’t a personal comment aimed at you (sorry if you felt this way) . But as Europeans we are super tired by this situation and want to move on so sorry if it felt like a personal attack (not at all). just frustration
It’s the beginning of the long goodbye!
Its not a good idea at all
This “sh-t storm’ is nothing compared to the sh-t storm that would follow if the democratic will of the people was overruled. Keep calm and carry on. The people have spoken.
Yeah, they voted on something that was an “advisement”. The UK isn’t actually a democracy.
There’s nothing undemocratic about an advisory referendum. Isn’t California thinking of changing its constitution because it has binding referenda that keep contradicting each other, thus making the state at times ungovernable?
That being said, this referendum result will be respected.
After a fashion. Free movement of workers is going nowhere. We should learn to get on with that because it’s staying.
We hope! Sometimes it’s a bad thing to work from home. It means you can’t resist watching the emergency EU parliament debate. People are FURIOUS with us. And Nigel Farage decides to wreck our reputation and negotiating credit EVEN FURTHER.
I know!
I am at home too on hols and currently watching the Scottish Parliament. Sturgeon is giving her EU ref speech with her usual fire and ire. This woman is serious and I am truly impressed!
The deal is she cannot interfere with politics, which is ironic since the EU is chiefly a trade agreement that has overstepped and taken over sovereignty of some countries by dictating policies or face sanctions. I think a monarch whose forefathers passed down their hard-fought territorial acquisitions, would naturally hate to lose ground one way or another. It’s not because Versailles is empty that QE2 has to move out in favour of pleasing anyone outside her family circle. Would any one of us be game to say “yes, go ahead and take my house”!?! The EU was the brainchild of financiers and marketers all of whom are the ones currently cashing in on the market instability. Shares and bonds are being bought back cheap and when markets are restored, you’ll see who’s holding the chips. It won’t be QE2. More than a figurehead, it’s the monarchy that’s being drained of its wealth and possessions. I wouldn’t want to be in her shoes right now, and it’s really low to do this to her at 90. Cameron didn’t have to call a referendum, but he did. He was obeying another authority.
When the Queen was crowned she was the head of an Empire. If Brexit has the expected result of Scottish Independence and Irish Reunification, all what’s left will be Wales and England. Wangland, in short. If I was her I’d probably lose the will to live.