From what I remember, we didn’t cover every little detail of the Amanda Knox saga, but I did end up doing a fair amount of coverage about Knox when all of the legal/trial shenanigans started happening in 2011 – you can see our archives here. In 2007, Knox, then an American college student studying abroad in Peruga, Italy, returned to her shared living quarters and learned that her roommate, a British student named Meredith Kercher, had been murdered. Knox and her boyfriend of a few weeks, Raffaele Sollecito, were accused of murdering Kercher. They were tried and convicted. Knox spent years in jail, awaiting retrial, and then her conviction was overturned in 2011 and she finally returned home to Washington state.
The case was an international media sensation, and lurid “details” were thrown around in the press for years. Knox ended up writing a memoir and doing an interview circuit, although I think the book and the interviews were just a way for her to pay for her extensive legal bills. Knox maintained her innocence, although there were times when I understood why the Italian authorities focused their investigation on Knox: in several interviews, she came across as cold and secretive. Keep that in mind, because Knox agreed to sit down for a series of interviews for a Netflix documentary about her life and the trial. Netflix is premiering the documentary today at the Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF), and Netflix released two trailers for the film. One trailer is about her innocence, one is about her (perceived) guilt.
The Hollywood Reporter did a story about the documentary filmmakers, Rod Blackhurst and Brian McGinn, who began their journey in 2011, shortly after Knox’s conviction was overturned. Knox wasn’t the only one who agreed to an interview – as you can see, they also interviewed reporters following the case, the Italian prosecutor Giluliano Mignini and Knox’s Italian boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito. It doesn’t seem like anyone from Meredith Kercher’s family was interviewed… which is their choice, of course, but I would have more faith in the documentary if there was a bigger range of interviews. The documentary will be available on September 30th on Netflix. Will you watch it? Hm.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
No. I won’t watch. I live in Italy and followed everything…she does not deserve this platform. If she is not guilty she at least knows what happened. The only people I feel for are the Kerchers.
That’s how I feel, too.
You live in Italy huh? So are you cool with the detective on this case going after multiple people for his psychotic belief that there are tons of satan-worshipping killers out there? (See: monster of Florence).
Yeah, the Italian police and justice system really screwed their image on this. No way I’m going there or letting my kid go. Bye bye tourism!
If an Italian detective did held such a view without evidence he would get fired for psychological reasons. Seeing satanists everywhere where there are none is a serious professional problem for detectives. And just like in pretty much any other western country such a detective would get fired.
Melody u can’t condemn a whole country and banish them for certain corrupt/dumb cop. Otherwise we would be without tourists ourselves.
Remember Casey Marie Anthony, how the hell did that bitch get off?
That was just like the weirdo investigator guy in Making A Murderer who cried while giving evidence because apparently Satan lived in the house of the accused.
Not just an Italian thing!
@Crux of Seven – Giuliano Mignini wasn’t fired when he was disgraced by the Monster of Florence case, and he wasn’t fired after botching this case. It seems that his crazy witch hunting ass is doing just fine in Italy.
Kate, I see your point, but the simple fact that the Italian system of law allows what it does as far as evidence, interrogation, and double jeopardy is enough to send me elsewhere. Greece has better ruins anyway. No big loss in my book.
Melody, I am Italian, I live in Florence and your comment is beyond ignorant.
So, following what you say I shouldn’t go to the States because they still support death penalty and gun control is non existent.
Wow. Just wow.
Please never come to Italy, and please please please go elsewhere. Anywhere.
Melody – are you for real? As I already mentioned, Satan was an obsession of one member of the prosecution and cited in court as evidence in the Avery case. Yet the majority of commenters I’ve read still think Avery belongs behind bars despite a total disaster of a police and prosecution case. Do you think nobody should ever holiday in the United States because Making A Murderer?
These cases become headlines and gossip fodder for a REASON. That reason being they stand out like a sore thumb amidst the vast majority of police action and judicial cases conducted perfectly properly in every country.
You should be embarrassed to type such things.
paolanqar – I was just outside Lucca for a few days a couple of weeks back. Didn’t make it to Firenze this year but I will next!
As many may choose not to go to the US because apparently itis fine to open fire in public places….the government has no desire to change it. The us is much more dangerous than italy
@Sixer There’s a hell of a lot more evidence against Avery than Knox. They intentionally left key evidence out of the “documentary” series so it would better fit their narrative.
Paolanqar, as you’re the only one that understood my objection is more centered around my new understanding of laws and justice system of Italy than this particular egregious anecdote, I’ll respond to you – yes, one should absolutely consider the laws of a country and one’s sense of safety before deciding where to go on holiday. I will not be going to Mexico either and my child will not go there for spring break. I will not be traveling to many Mideastern countries where women are jailed for adultery for reporting their rapes to authorities. I will not be taking the India gang-rape tour.
I can live with you thinking me foolish or ignorant for this way of thinking. I won’t lose sleep about it. Your country will lose money, but I will not lose sleep.
@paolanqar
Originally from there too and beyond appalling what that poster said, agree with you.
She shouldn’t come to UK either, you know with all the botched up investigations about Jimmy Saville and Rotherham.
@Melody
I guess you won’t move from USA then because I’ve lived in many countries all over the world and there’s not one which is completely safe and with a non-botched justice system.
I organise touristic tours for people locally (in UK) and I hope not to have tourists like you any time soon; usually an endless pain in the backside.
Silverunicorn – you missed my point as well. I’m not basing my decisions on individual anecdotes of injustice or mishandled cases. There’s a simple equation – do I feel safe with what I understand of the place and its laws? There are so many places to go that I feel no great loss in avoiding certain places where I feel my person or human rights are less likely to be respected. Italy, Mexico and India are not competing well enough to get my money.
So let me know when you’re planning that next trip to Aleppo or Detroit before you judge my logic.
Melody – do please tell us of the extensive research you have conducted into the Italian justice system that does NOT concern this case.
Italian justice works pretty much as it does in most developed economies. Mostly fair, most crimes dealt with appropriately, a few structural issues that need sorting out, a few egregiously badly conducted cases.
What there is any different to the US? (Or, for that matter, the UK, where I happen to live).
@Melody
Apparently many missed your point or misunderstood you, see Sixer’s reply as well.
I lived in USA and sleeping with 5 rifles under the bed didn’t make me any safer than in Venezuela, another country I have extensively visited.
I try to approach any country I visit or live in with an open mind and without any prejudice. If you don’t possess that, my advice as a tour operator would be to stay in your comfort zone, i.e. wherever you live.
Comparing Italy to Syria, a country currently at war, sorry but it’s pretty ridiculous and shows you’re way off the mark with your comments.
Sixer – I am a US attorney, which provides me with familiarity with the US system of criminal and civil law (and in-depth knowledge of a certain sliver of law in which I practice – there are very few generalist attorneys in the US). As for the Italian law research I’ve done, I believe the numerous articles I’ve read on it are best summarized by the article linked below (as well as writing a thesis in Ancient Roman Marriage law, which though not relevant here, did receive a grade I still take pride in).
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/05/an-american-in-the-italian-wheels-of-justice/?_r=1
Silverunicorn – and please try for a bit more civility in your comments. I have done nothing to you except disagree with your viewpoint.
Sixer,
you will love Florence, (which by the way is one of the safest places I know).
I moved here to go to Uni (architecture) in 2000 and despite the fact i am more than happy to move to the UK in January, I will miss Florence immensely.
Yes some girls have bad experiences at night but mainly because they walk around while heavily drunk at night and because they get too friendly with shady people in clubs. This could happen anywhere in the world, as we constantly see from the news.
Let me know if you come by, we can have coffee together 🙂
Plus let me just say that I am very proud to be Italian.
Yes we have many flaws, our juridic system might be messy at times, our bureaucracy is incredibly annoying but you will never find people more generous, friendly, helpful and nice than the Italians.
After the earthquake, which week struck Rieti a few weeks ago, Italian people ( not politicians or tv programmes or anything of the sort) raised 15 MIll Euro in only 48 hours.
@Melody
The fact you’re an American attorney doesn’t mean you can possibly know all about the Italian justice system. I live in England and many local lawyers know nearly nil about the Scottish justice system, which is not far away, right?
A case doesn’t make an entire justice system. And although you might be right about the general inefficiency of the whole bureaucratic Italian machine (from government to trickling down to the justice system), it is quite an ignorant conclusion to define a country ‘unsafe’ based on such reasons. I don’t recall Italy being entered in any unsafe list in any consulate. Where you did read that?
What the whole Ancient Roman marriage law has to do with the rest? I’ve graduated as a Classicist, it would be like saying that my dissertation is the proof that nowadays Greece is the same as it was in Aristotle’s times.
Where have I been ‘uncivil’? And you have not just disagreed, you are spreading misinformation as fact, which annoys me a bit, if you allow me to say so.
@paolanqar
“Plus let me just say that I am very proud to be Italian.
Yes we have many flaws, our juridic system might be messy at times but you will never find people more generous, friendly, helpful and nice than the Italians.”
Same and agree with you.
I never claimed to be an expert – I simply expressed that I know enough of the Italian legal system to not want to visit.
I’m unaware of having spread any misinformation – unless you’re considering expressing a different view to be spreading misinformation. If so, I will take your criticism of my intolerant attitude with the humor it deserves.
Melody – thanks for the link, but did you miss the part where I asked about your knowledge that DOES NOT involve this single case?
paolanqar – I have (Italian) friends living not far from Lucca and visit most years, so I know (and love) Florence. Lucca is my favourite Tuscan city though. I love the laid back vibe there. BTW – in probably twenty visits to Tuscany, I’ve never had any kind of problem. Including in bars at night and at football games. The Pisa fans are always darlings to the Sixlets.
Sizer – my concerns about the Italian justice system are described in the article – the structure of the system concerns me. Has the structure changed since this case? What point are you trying to find with a legal source that wasn’t written in connection with this case?
There’s still no double jeopardy protection, there’s still admission of questionably obtained evidence, etc. Shall I find a source discussing these independently? I can, but the article I provided is written better for a non-legal audience. What is your point?
Melody, ‘Greece has better ruins’? Are you serious? Half the world’s great art treasures are in Italy. This much you must know, at least. You must also be aware of the fact that juridical systems worldwide repose heavily on Roman legislation. The phrase ‘in dubio pro reo’, which means that a defendant may not be convicted by the court when doubts about his or her guilt remain, is LATIN. Please, keep your children at home, do not send them to Italy, Mexico or India, avoid spending your precious dollars on unworthy people.
Lou, it actually kills me that I won’t be seeing Lake Como in my lifetime, but I’ve seen both Greek and Roman ruins and for me the Roman ruins look like tacky Vegas replicas of the Greek ones. Not my taste. If they’re your taste – great! Enjoy! I just won’t be. My choice.
Lou – and if you’re interested in my problems with the Italy legal system, read the short article I posted. Of course Rome spread the seeds of the Greek system they adopted across the empire, but there are some key differences that exist now that make other places more appealing for me to visit. I’m sure there are great people in all the places I’ve ruled out for now – and great food and things to see – but that’s my choice. No need for hostility.
‘The Roman ruins look like tacky Vegas replicas of the Greek ones. ‘
omfg.
Melody,
I changed my mind. Please come to Italy and I will show you around. I cannot wait to see your face when you will see what ‘the cheap ruins’ look like.
Also… in Italy, especially in Florence, Venice or Rome, people ( me) live in buildings made in 1400, if not before, and they are not ruined or cheap or tacky. I have wifi, a microwave and also a smart phone.
Progress! what are you doing to me? I am meant to STILL live in the Renaissance!!!
So much talent has touched those stones,.. i feel sorry for you. Widen your horizons and you will be amazed.
Roman ruins are tacky? Are you flipping kidding me?
I am DYING to go to Florence. Have not yet been there. I have to work on paranormalguy to take some time off so we can go together. He’s an attorney too and has no issue with visiting Italy.
Oh for Pete’s sake – I’m not saying Italian people don’t live in the modern world. They probably have better wifi coverage than I do, FFS. And except for Maclaren, they have some of the best engineers in F1 racing. When I go somewhere, I usually go to see the ruins – the antiquities. It’s my thing. And I don’t mean they look cheap by saying they’re a Vegas version of Greek. They seem less elegant – more tricked out and overdone like they’re competing with someone or something else. I’m sorry if hearing my preference hurts – I really don’t mean to offend, it’s just my experience.
@Melody
if you can come down from you ‘civil’ pedestal of presupposed knowledge, I might explain to you that Greeks have gotten their stuff (language, alphabet, art, etc.) from the Near East, as all ancient populations chose to do some cherry picking from other cultures to suit their needs and ideal (and I didn’t read the Internet to know this, I have a degree in ancient history and archaeology).
If you say “I like the Greek ruins more”, that’s your opinion; if you try to discredit the others in order to validate such opinion I fear it’s ignorance.
Cradle of civilization is the Near East, yep those places called Iran and Irak nowadays, which we surely will never visit (me neither at this point but a visit to Berlin and London museums is sufficient to see their huge contribution to modern civilization).
Silverunicorn- yes, Greek civilization also borrowed heavily from Egyptian civilization etc. – but I didn’t mention that because they hadn’t hieroglyphed into the conversation at that point.
I also have an undergrad degree in Anthropology of Ancient Civilizations – we should get along better than we do. Seems like we have a lot in common.
@MELODY as a Greek thank you for our better ruins… Are you for real?!?! If we follow your logic no one should ever set foot in the States. You are full of serial killers, people are allowed to buy and carry guns without anyone even checking if they are mentally stable (Orlando hello!!) and overzealous -and racist if I may add- cops kill black people for very serious reasons …like reaching for their glove compartment to take out their driver’s licence …THE NERVE!!! Eeerr what else… oh yes Florida has alligators, PEOPLE STAY AWAY FROM THE US…Go to Australia, their crocodiles are bigger.
Calimera Anthi – I can see how you might feel that way because yes, we have many problems of our own. My concerns are with the laws of a place, however. Bad and crazy things can happen everywhere (esp in Florida with the alligator-eating-snakes) – and when they do I want to be in a place that will not consider my sexual history as relevant evidence if I have a car accident, or prosecute me again for the same thing after I spend millions to win the case the first time.
There are better places to go that don’t consider my vaginal activities as open to consideration for no reason whatsoever.
Greece has better eggs, feta, leeks, Choco Caps, pagoto, beaches… I miss it.
@Melody
Yeah because Greece and Italy are interchangable lol. Like US and Canada?
Look up ANY US Innocence Project’s website and read up on their cases, and tell me Italy’s bad…
Melody please don’t talk about the italian law system as if you were an expert, based on a biased news article. The system isn’t perfect, but it’s not perfect in the Us, the Uk, France, Japan or India. Leave us our watered down and tacky ruins we are effing proud of them. Go spend your money elsewhere where you wouldn’t see even half of the artistic, historical and culinary heritage that we have.
Also Melody… how many INNOCENT people the American system has killed through death penalty? People who were not rich enough to re-open a case?
At least Amanda Knox is alive. If this happened in the States maybe she would walking down the green mile.
Melody, if those are your concerns, I’d avoid most of continental Europe, including Greece. http://www.ecba.org/extdocserv/projects/JusticeForum/Greece180309.pdf If you insist upon having independent judges, jury trials etc, you should stick to countries that have common law systems. Personally, I think that takes risk-avoidance much too far and you’re missing out on a lot, but that’s up to you.
I’m just laughing because Melody keeps making all these assertions of places she claims she will never visit. As if she’d know.
I don’t know, my family and I have always valued going to different places and learning about new places despite their flaws. I guess if I viewed a country only by landmarks and not by people then I would understand the logic?
I was too young for this case when it happened but I have never been sure of her innocence or guilt. Either way, she is free now.
Melody, I’m not expert but are you sure the Greek legal system is so different to the Italian legal system? I know the Greek system is also based on the traditional Roman system. The Italian courts don’t consider the Knox trial as finished meaning it is not considered double jeopardy it’s a trial continuation. There are many countries which a case is not considered closed just because one court says so. South Africa and Oscar Pistorious comes to mind. Very few countries in the world are based on English Common Law, and even then laws vary country to country.
Please, stop arguing with Melody: every year Italy is visited by millions of tourists from every part of the world, I’m pretty sure we can survive without Melody’s money. I highly suggest her not to visit any country in Europe, as the Roman traditional system inspires a lot of them. Besides, I understand her needing for safety when she makes a journey. Me too, I have some problems visiting a country where there’s death penalty, where the cops have the right to shoot you down if you don’t stop with your car and where people is free to keep guns and other weapons . Italy legal system has a lot of flaws, but at least, we have no death penalty.
Does the fact that DNA evidence exonerated her mean anything to the people who still insist she is guilty?
Apparently not. There was never one shred of actual evidence against the girl, and that never stopped anyone. My personal favorite has always been the claim that she left a trail of bloody footprints (Meredith’s blood) despite the fact that those footprints tested negative for blood and contained not one shred of Meredith’s DNA.
Believing Knox and Sollecito were involved is an act of faith that requires not knowing the facts of the case. Rudy Guede killed that poor girl and he acted alone. End of story.
I think people are quick to blame Amanda because her behavior, at time of the murder, seemed detached, selfish and lacking empathy.
She was reported to be doing cartwheels at the police station (which her family denies, as they claim that after hours of being interrogated, she was merely stretching), at the crime scene she was filmed kissing her then boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, with a very detached look on her face and she kept changing her story (which was probably the most damaging of all of her odd behaviors).
The bottom line is, Rudy Guede, committed the crime, and he committed it, alone. He fled the country (which an innocent man would never do, He would have remained and cooperated with authorities), and he only blamed Knox and Sollecito, for a lighter sentence.
Amanda and Raffaele were found guilty in the court of public opinion because their behavior appeared smug and arrogant. While that might be true, neither is responsible for Kercher’s murder,
Finally, Italy is an exquisitely beautiful country and Iook forward to returning there one day. However, to say the United States allows public shootings, is preposterous.
I was born, bred, and still live in New York, where gun laws are very strict. As a matter of fact, New York was voted the least free state, but that still does not stop the criminals from getting their hands on illegal weapons. In fact, crime and home invasions, are higher here then in Sates where citizens have the right to own, and carry weapons.
this is a really good website, looks at all the evidence, very interesting that the boyfriend never backed up Amanda’s alibi. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page
I do think that she knows a lot more than she let on and she threw her boss, the Bar Manager completely under the bus. Even now she states that it was under police pressure but she wrote statement after statement with no thought about him . I hate that this degenerates into america versus the world. All countries have problems with their judicial systems so lashing out and getting defensive because she is american and it happened in Italy is futile. Meredith died and she doesn’t appear to have got justice but not because of Italy, this could have happened in either England or America due to the downgrading of the Justice system.
@Patsy, I’m a fan of that site too, and it’s great to see Google knows its stuff and ranks it way higher than the Knox-cottage-industry sites. People who say there’s no evidence don’t know anything about the trial and have swallowed the PR spin lock stock and barrel – or they’re PR posters – very usual to see them hijacking Knox stories.
Yes, she knows that Guede killed Meredith. There has never been reliable evidence that Amanda was there that night or even in Meredith’s room.
Sometimes the obvious answer is the correct answer. Why they were so intent on targeting her when they clearly had their killer in Guede will always mystify me. I don’t understand how anyone can still honestly believe that she was involved.
At the same time, Netflix doesn’t have a great track record when it comes to “documentaries”. Making a Murderer is a completely bastardized version of the true events and evidence.
@KB
How so?
@Qwerty Are you for real? I assume your question is in regards to my comment about the egregious nature of the “documentary” Making A Murderer. I apologize if I’m wrong, but if that is what you’re asking about, I encourage you to read this article in its entirety:
http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php
I used to think she was somehow involved, too, until I read a blog by a former FBI agent called Injustice in Perugia. It is truly eye opening, and I am utterly ashamed that I ever thought her guilty and am so angry at the press for not reporting how obviously innocent she is.
PLEASE read this. It is barbaric how this girl has been treated by the Italian Police and the press. I promise you that once you read this, your stomach will literally churn (as mine is now) reading comments from people proclaiming her guilt. Here is just one example page that details the lies that have been spread by the media, such as the “bloody bathroom”:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
Steve Moore has been discredited many times by lay people. He’s made a career from the Knox cottage industry.
The final Court of Cassation review verdict acquitted the pair based on ‘insufficent evidence’ not innocence. CoC even found Knox was at murder scene and washed blood of Meredith off her hands, and Sollecito was likely there too. Also found that if investigation had been carried out with more precision — the court would have confidently found for guilt!
Exactly. I don’t feel for her. I feel for the family that had to bury their daughter and got zero closure afterwards. Frankly I’m not supporting Amanda making money of this murder trial. I don’t care. If it’s not supporting the victims family I’m not watching not giving money towards the project.
She was completely railroaded and imprisoned for a crime she didn’t commit. You can care about Meredith Kercher and recognize the egregious that way her murder was investigated and prosecuted at the same time.
She was imprisoned for years for a crime all physical evidence indicates that she did not commit, and her family used up all their savings for her legal defense. She has the right to do whatever she wants.
People conveniently seem to forget that she also tried to frame an innocent black dude for the murder and would have swanned off back to states while he rotted in jail…she has all the hallmarks of a sociopath.
Crimes were committed against both Meredith AND Amanda. This isn’t a zero sum game where only one person can be victimized.
@ Ava – or a panic stricken kid in a foreign country far from home?
@Respect..I totally agree ..let’s not forget every time she appears the Kerchers have to deal with this again
So true, and neither of them have been respectful. The family specifically asked that they not visit her grave and he did and wrote all about it.
Agreed. I started to watch a made for TV movie about this earlier this week and quickly changed the channel when it became obvious the slant was that she’s innocent. Girl isn’t innocent by any means. Another case we’ll never know the truth about. I still feel horrible for the Kerchers – who BTW adamantly believe Knox is guilty in some way and they know more than we do.
I know I asked another person this, but out of genuine curiosity, what makes you think she is guilty?
There is no evidence at all, no rational basis on which to believe Knox is guilty. Clinging to that belief makes people look ignorant, unwilling to admit mistakes, and vindictive.
And, btw, the Italian high court believes her to be innocent. They have the choice of finding a conviction is not proven (like our not guilty verdict) or that the defendant is actually innocent. They went with the latter.
What an ironic handle for someone who obviously knows so little about the case. Why would Kercher’s parents know more about it? The investigators in Perugia are barely competent enough to know anything about it themselves.
If she is “obviously” guilty, why did the prosecution present a knife and pretend that it had Amanda’s DNA on it and Meredith’s blood…when really it turned out to be rye bread? Seriously. If she was “obviously” guilty, they would have legitimate evidence to prove it, not a con job.
Me too, I found myself believing her guilty because of the evidence, not the drip drip tabloid feed, nor her looks. I was watching an interview with the Kercher family, who never behaved with anything other than dignity and M’s sister said that they had their opinion based on everything they knew and that they had seen a lot of evidence overlooked by the media. Also they stated that A&R were not welcome at Meredith’s grave. so I read a lot of the court transcripts and the behaviour of Amanda – not the cartwheels, snogging and buying of underwear – disrespectful and strange but not proof of guilt – , but trying to delay the entry of the police into Meredith’s room, the fact that for years Rapheal did not back Amanda’s alibi. Also the translator who completely contradicted Amanda’s assertion that she was isolated and questioned for 8 hours without food, that Amanda wrote letters fine tuning her accusal of Patric as the murderer. Lots more I also studied the injustice in Perugia site amongst many but also the following site http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com. I really tried to look at both sides of the argument, but cant shake off the feeling that Amanda is aware of so much more and very much involved.
Patsy and Jennifer, I totally agree. Followed this pretty much from the start. Interesting to note Cassation / Supreme Court said in its final judgement report – which it wasn’t meant to rule on evidence but only questions of law but did anyway – that Knox was there that night, was never coerced into false confession (hence calunia conviction stands), and the reliable bits of DNA / blood evidence confirmed she washed her hands of Kercher’s blood at some stage.
@Tiffany, the rye bread point is wrong. There’s absolutely no question – not even disputed by Knox’s team at trial – that her DNA was on the knife. Retesting during the Nencini trial found more of Knox’s DNA. The question was only whether Kercher’s single cell, which was found and tested with Knox’s reps represent, and the fact it couldn’t be repeated, should be accepted. No fixed international standards on this.
Melody, shall we talk about Sacco and Vanzetti?
Well if you “followed” everything in the Italian media then you must have better knowledge of the case than any of us including the detectives who vacated her conviction.
From your myopic view based on sources proven to be biased you clearly know better than anyone else including those familiar with the forensics.
I can only hope you are convicted of a crime in a foreign land and others can judge you and state “facts” based on what the media presents. Fingers crossed! Here’s hoping.
I agree with you, respect. Close watchers know what the public relations has drowned out about this case. You can read the motivations/judges’ reports yourself to get a clear sense of it anyway. They’ve all been translated by volunteers by now.
No, close watchers know the public relations effort in some small way helped mitigate against the damage of the lies that the prosecution and tabloid press told in the first weeks after Amanda’s arrest. When you actually know the facts and look back at some of those early “news” reports, sane people are appalled at the way the public was misled from day one.
Even Cassation /Supreme Court said she was there that night and washed her hands of Kercher’s blood, judging from the reliable bits of physical evidence. Aside, immense quantities of circumstantial evidence against Knox, including cell tower data, phone records, countless lies and consistencies, and so on and so on.
Agree!
Good luck keeping a killer on the loose.
Merediths murderer has been in prison this whole time. You are aware that a man was convicted of killing her with plenty of evidence, right?
But she was seen buying underwear after Kercher’s death!! AND she kissed her boyfriend the morning after Kercher was killed! If that doesn’t prove she’s guilty of murder, then I don’t know what would! DNA, Schmee-NA. Why would I let that interfere with my impression of her?!
for me it’s the cart wheel. what kind of innocent person does a cart wheel.
bcgirl, an immature, stressed out weirdo, that’s who. Which does not make her guilty. The killer is in jail.
I thought they misconstrued that as well? She was stretching (touching her toes) to ease her back after hours of sitting/waiting and the police reported it as a cartwheel.
bcgirl: The cartwheel got me too. Doesn’t prove or imply she’s a killer, but it sure shows her lack of sensitivity. Her roommate was butchered in her flat and she’s doing cartwheels????? Never did understand Amanda or her boyfriend. Age is not an accuse for acting like assholes when a girl lay dead.
Err..I was being sarcastic and read bcgirl’s comment as a joke. Am I wrong?
my comment was total sarcasm.
I forgot that always has to be made clear.
your comment was hilarious, btw KB!
I read both comments as sarcastic – I thought it was pretty clear 😊
I saw the sarcasm but yeah, the headlines said lingerie shopping when really she just didn’t have access to the apartment and clothes.
Her faces and eyes resemble Tom Cruise and it freaks me out.
I thought so too!
She definitely has dead eyes. I remember watching the first Dateline or 48 Hour Mystery on her before I knew anything about the case and my immediate reaction when they showed her was, “something is not right with that girl.”
I do not remember exactly where I read or heard it, but I seem to recall that Amanda was previously diagnosed as being somewhere on the mild, functional end of the autistic spectrum disorder. My older brother has Asperger’s Syndrome, and at times I have seen similarities in their speaking patterns, eye contact, and body language. It certainly would explain why some of her behaviour and her interactions with the investigators seem strangely “off” to us neurotypical types.
I think that a lot of her aloofness/demeanor is why people jumped on the guilt bandwagon, and I’ve definitely always thought that something was up with her not exactly being neurotypical. It is just another knock on the head for people to judge on evidence, not based on whether or not they like someone or think they “look guilty.”
I’ve heard the same thing about her possibly having Aspergers, and I think it was unfair for me to label her as “off” because she didn’t have the same body language as what I deemed normal.
I am barely on the spectrum and it makes me very analytical and not emotive at all. I don’t attend funerals bc I don’t get it, but I understand it’s a ritual that helps people process grief. I think her behaviour the next day makes sense, I get bored out of my mind if I have to wait around instead of going about my business. my business is crisis response because I’m calm and don’t get shaken up by my feelings. I need to clarify; testing puts me on the spectrum but really I probably just have personality traits that look like mild aspergers.
Aye, I know a lot of people with children on the spectrum or who are on it themselves who find this case disturbing for exactly that reason. A lot of justice systems do use traditional social and physical cues as a way of perceiving your emotional innocence. People who do not fit the neurotypical profile are not going to be able to reflect those same behavioral cues and risk being misjudged for it. I don’t know if Amanda Knox is innocent or not, but if she has a diagnosed neurological disorder, it puts a far more frightening spin on that situation.
I didn’t keep up with this case all that much, never saw interviews, but there’s something about her that is hard to sympathize with.
Here we go again.
The Kerchers probably don’t want to be interviewed.
Really? Because they’ve done their best to keep this story alive as long as possible, even though the murderer is in prison and will be locked up for years.
Yeah, I really do think this. They aren’t going to participate in a documentary which questions Amanda’s involvement. I HOPE that now the trials are completely over, they can let it go and find peace. I don’t understand why they insist on Amanda being involved when there is literally no evidence of her having any involvement, other than grief making people do funny things. The police KNOW Guede killed Meredith, and now he is getting out. It’s sick.
I think I’m going to have to bow out of this thread this time. The horrible comments have been rolling in fast and fierce, and the post hasn’t even been up for an hour yet. I’ll leave it at, cognitive bias can be an extremely dangerous thing.
Wow, harsh, they have been really dignified throughout the whole travesty. They have only given brief interviews after the court cases. I know the father wrote a book but it was because Meredith had been forgotten and he’s a writer by trade. The first thing Amanda’s parents did was hire a PR team.
Sorry but how do you know that “she went back to her room and found her college roommate killed”. She has lied several times about what she was doing and were she was. This makes be sick, now Netflix makes a documentary? I believe she is incredibly guilty of lying, manipulating and maybe possible even killing… Once again media give platform to the wrong more sensationalist people, or well connected people.. All I know is that poor Meredith did not have justice this makes me so sick…
Her lying started after several hours of overnight interrogation after being deprived of sleep, food and water. You should google “false confessions” if you don’t understand why she told different stories.
If you genuinely care about the case, you should read this: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheInterrogation.html
I read a theory somewhere that sounded quite plausible, is that she was under the influence of something (drugs or whatever) and couldn’t actually remember much. That her memory was hazy and there were pieces missing. The things she did remember were terrible and she couldn’t make sense of them. Imagine coming home high and finding your roommate killed, or being really high and hearing it happen but being unable to react (which is what I think happened). What would you do? You’d likely do something foolish and implusive that would make you look guilty as all hell. And when you sobered up you’d realize that, and maybe instead of admitting to it, you’d try and lie your way out of it. Naturally your story would keep changing and you’d break down completely under heavy interrogation and say all kinds of things that weren’t true. You’d think that even if you told the truth nobody would believe you, and the fact that you can’t remember things further discredits you. She might also have feared punishment for being involved at all, even if she didn’t kill or participate at all in killing Meredith.
Amanda was trying to hide something, that much was pretty clear, but it never seemed to occur to anyone to find out what that was, they all just assumed that it was the murder and nothing else. Like the only possible thing she could have done that night that she wouldn’t want to talk about or she feared would incriminate her was the actual murder. People lie about far less.
And if she told the truth and said “I was high, I don’t remember much from the night before” they’d just use that as more proof to fit their narrative that she was an person who committed this unspeakable murder. It’d be used as evidence against her, just like all of the other circumstantial evidence used to convict her in the court of public opinion.
She herself may even feel guilty in some way. Like she should have been able to help or prevent it, and didn’t. It would explain why she often acted guilty and not at all like an innocent person. Trying to lay the blame on others is a pretty classic move to try and distance yourself, separate yourself from the guilt.
Honestly, it really does make sense when you think about it that way. If she was high out of her skull and barely remembers what happened, but what she does remember is truly awful and that she did some really stupid stuff, and she feels guilty for being unable to stop the murder from happening, doesn’t everything make so much sense? The contradictions, the lies, the seemingly far fetched laying of blame on others, and how she’s been so unbelievable and uncomfortable throughout the whole thing.
Except, Wren, Amanda wasn’t at her house that night. At all.
A witness spoke to Sollecito on his apartment intercom at 8:45 that night and heard Amanda in the background, both of them sounding normal, not in some drugged-out haze. Based on Meredith’s phone records and her stomach contents, her murder most likely started right around 9 pm and her killer (Rudy Guede) left the house soon after, definitely before 10 pm.
So somehow, the two got so high and walked to Amanda’s house in about 13 minutes to meet up with a guy Amanda had met once and Sollecito had never met to murder Meredith?
What happened here is really quite simple: upon returning home from a night out with friends, Meredith surprised the known-burglar Rudy Guede, who had broken into her home. Guede pulled the knife he was known to carry out and raped and killed her.
Sadly, the police and prosecutor decided to loudly announce their culprits before any of the actual evidence came in. Once all the evidence came back pointing solely and squarely at Rudy Guede, the authorities just couldn’t bring themselves to admit they’d made a mistake in this case that had drawn both British and American attention and so doggedly stuck to their absurd story.
In criminology, hers wasn’t a false confession; it was an outright attempt to accuse someone else. She’s been describing it as such but that’s wrong.
@Suri She wasn’t confessing to murdering Kercher herself, but she was claiming to have been at the house when all legitimate evidence points to her not being there at the time of Meredith’s murder. And the same essential rules of false confessions apply. She was interrogated overnight, for hours on end, given no food or water, and the investigators repeatedly fed her the story that it was her boss. She was encouraged to “visualize” him there, killing her roommate.
We all want to believe that we would never be capable of such a thing, but the Milgram Experiment, the recovered memories of the 90s, and cases like this one all indicate one thing, IMO: human beings are capable of being manipulated and convinced to do things/say things that we would ordinarily deem outrageous, given the proper circumstances. Our memories and behavior prove time and time again to be highly malleable and suggestible in study after study, case after case.
This is also a very good website. Really good detail http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page
@KB You’re repeating the Knox PR team’s spin and need to get up to speed with the motivations reports – all translated now and thoroughly deal with the evidence. Her interview lasted two hours at most before she accused Patrik, and that was right after she was told bf wasn’t giving her an alibi anymore. She was given camomile tea and food from the vending machine. All facts laid out in the trial and dealt with in motivation reports and NOT EVEN DISPUTED by her own legal team at trial. She was treated very well and accused Patrik out of nowhere.
Look at the evidence. Kercher was dragged from one room to another after she was murdered. There were bloody footprints that had been cleaned up but luminol showed them. Knox was at the store in their neighborhood in the wee hours of the morning waiting when an employee came to open it up for the day and what did Knox buy? Bleach. Explain that please.
She is another example of Americans refusing to see a murderer because she’s white, pretty and puts on a good coy front – just like Casey Anthony. It’s amazing how looks get women off in this country even if it’s just the court of public opinion.
I hate how they keep referring to this woman as Foxy Knoxy – an avatar she gave herself on the internet. It was never a nickname she was given by friends or classmates. She called herself Foxy Knoxy because that’s how she wants to be seen – sexy girl. I would love to have a real criminal behaviorist – someone unbiased from the FBI – have a go at her.
It can’t be explained because it NEVER happened:
“It was reported that Amanda and Raffaele were caught by surprise that morning standing on the porch of the cottage with a mop bucket and bleach when the Postal Police arrived.
Truth – Amanda never purchased bleach. No receipts were ever presented at trial. Amanda and Raffaele weren’t caught by surprise. In fact, Raffaele had already called the police to report a possible break in. The mop bucket at the cottage was investigated and no evidence was ever presented in regard to any mop bucket. This story was told around the world. This lie is still being told. On December 10, 2009, Anne Coulter repeated this lie on the O’Reilly Factor.
There have also been reports that Raffaele purchased bleach and that receipts were found in his apartment showing proof of this purchase. Once again, this is simply not true. Raffaele’s apartment was thoroughly searched. Receipts were found in his apartment but none of the receipts indicated a purchase of bleach. The police took video of the receipts that were found.
The prosecution presented no evidence at trial that anyone cleaned the cottage with bleach, Bloody footprints from Rudy Guede’s shoes are seen going down the hall and right out the front door. How could Amanda and Raffaele clean the floor with bleach, removing all of the evidence that pointed at them while leaving all of the evidence that pointed to Guede completely untouched? This theory is simply nonsense.”
You can see pictures of the receipts (and the full analysis) here:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html
None of what you said is true. You should look into the evidence a little more deeply.
Do you ever plan on knowing the facts of this case before you rant?
1. The name Foxy Knoxy was a Facebook monicher from her days as a soccer player.
2. There is exactly zero evidence that bleach was ever purchased or used by Knox or her boyfriend.
3. Casey Anthony was reviled by the press and convicted in the court of public opinion. The prosecution was outfoxed by her lawyer, and she was released on reasonable doubt, plain and simple.
+1000%
No, I will not. This is very disrespectful towards Meredith Kercher’s family. No one knows for sure what happened, no one ever will.
This makes me consider to cancel my Netflix subscription.
Amanda has never cared about their family. She’s an evil, evil girl.
Evil how? Because she happened to be the roommate of someone who was murdered by someone else? Because she didn’t cry enough? Because she had casual sex?
She’s so evil that she was Meredith’s friend for THE SINGLE WEEK that Knox was in the country before the murder. They BOTH went to bars and both picked up guys. I will never understand how people think that there was so much love lost between these two in such a short period of time that Knox decided to go on a killing rampage, and I will never understand why the Kerchers believe that Knox did it when justice has already been served for their daughter and all the evidence rationally points to Guede as the killer.
Em, Meredith did not like Amanda because of her personal hygiene habits and the fact she borrowed money, didn’t repay it. They shared a house, they were not friends, not even buddies. She lied to the police by stating Meredith always locked her room when she didn’t.. Amanda tried to stop the police from entering Meredith’s room when they came to the house to return a phone found in neighbors garden, they ignored her room because of Amanda, delaying the body being found. It was another housemate who informed the police this was incorrect, Meredith never locked her room and demanded it be broke open. A witness placed her in the shop buying bleach despite lack of receipts. Amanda also tried to implicate someone else in the murder – Hicham Khiri, but backed away when it was proved he was not in Perugia at the time of the murder. Raphael changed his alibi a number of times. It goes on and on
Patsy, literally nothing you’re saying is true. Who the heck is Hicham Khiri? You’re parroting the debunked nonsense that guilters cling to, but is all completely false. For crying out loud, Raffaele called the police!
Having read all the motivations reports, I can vouch for Patsy’s posts. She knows her facts. Sarah, if you don’t know about Hicham Khiri then you can’t really say you know much about this case at all.
Wow, you people are nuts. Amanda didn’t “implicate” Khiri (whose name I had forgotten because I remember him as “Shaky”). Amanda, like all of Meredith’s friends, were asked about who Meredith knew, who they might have thought of. Amanda remembered this guy (and by the way, she wasn’t the first as Sophie mentioned him to police first). Proven enough for you yet?
I, too, have read the motivation reports and can vouch for my posts. You two are just wrong.
You’ve accused Jessica of being a PR poster. Who are you working for and why are you so invested in promoting these absolute lies about an innocent person? It’s bizarre. This whole internet cottage industry of Amanda guilters is one of the most absurd but fascinating things I have ever encountered in my life.
We know what happened. The evidence is quite clear about what happened. Rudy Guede alone killed Meredith. The greatest shame of this case is that the prosecution and media circus obfuscated that very basic, very knowable fact.
@sarah, he called the police, then hung up, called his sister and then the local police arrived because of some phones which were found in a neighbors garden, independently and due to a neighbor calling them. so your technically correct I guess. I’m very well versed in the case, i’m not a ‘guilter’ whatever that is and i’m not making it up as I go along, nor am I nutty just because I have a different opinion from you, lets agree to differ.
Woah, don’t be hasty gurl!
Nope. No sympathy for her. She’s the one who actually pointed the finger at her boss, a black guy, when she KNEW he had nothing to do with anything — and the poor man ended up behind bars for days. Proof was quickly gathered to exonerate him completely, and she even admitted she lied about him! Honestly, I don’t understand how people can believe her.
Right? It’s hard to believe a young woman in a foreign county would do something dumb after also being locked up for days and being lied to and told she might have HIV.
@ Carebare Something dumb would be speaking to the police without a lawyer with you or defending a woman you don;t even know. What she did was to her boss was unconscionable and should not even remotely be pushed aside and considered “something dumb”. There are plenty of reasons to defend her, but on this one, she was damn dead wrong.
That wasnt “something dumb”. That was a something evil. Plenty of people are interrogated around the world and never attempt to pin murder on others. She saw a black African immigrant and thought “better him than me”. Its classic white-girl-dehumanises-African for own purposes. Pure evil!
@Naya. That’s actually not true at all. False statements and confessions run rampant, especially when the police lie (which happened in this case). In one study, over 70% of subjects managed to “remember” a crime they did not commit.
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/false-memory-crime
@Naya
Agree with you.
I don’t understand how people can dismiss the unjust way she was interrogated and held by the police. People judge others on how they react in that situation, failing to realize that we are all vulnerable. It is arrogant to assume any of us would react differently in the same situation.
She was interrogated in a psychologically abusive, dishonest, and disturbing manner for upwards of 10 hours. These kinds of interrogations are intended to produce false confessions and false memories as the target is worn down by the stress induced by the process and surrounding circumstances. The police should be blamed for introducing the boss into the equation and setting in motion a chain of events that led to a false accusation. That goes for this case and any others in which these terrible techniques are used.
Also, Knox is clearly not wired in a neurotypical way. This would only compound her level of distress and confusion during these events.
U forgot denied food drink sleep and contact with anyone
Don’t think it quite happened like this and she did throw that poor man under the bus, has she ever even apologized to him? She never paid him the compensation he was awarded from her. http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page
She was interviewed just under two hours before she accused Patrik. There wasn’t any torture or deprivation and the interview wasn’t recorded because she was a witness at that stage, so none of that was admissible on own merits, only as context for the handwritten note in English she wrote up later that early morning to continue accusing Patrik – with no prompting or contact with the police at all. None of these facts were even disputed by her legal team at trial. You can follow the time frame on that site Patsy linked to and see for yourself.
Not exactly. The police kept pressing her on the boss and eventually she just agreed with them. There is a reason why that style of questioning is wrong.
It’s such a gray area with things of that nature. I’d like to think I’d never do something so obviously wrong- but when you hear the horror stories of how some interrogations go all over the world, you really have to wonder. Everyone has a breaking point, and sadly, it’s sometimes exploited to the nth degree.
You should read this:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheInterrogation.html
She accused Patrick after being interrogated for 8 hours overnight by 12 different policemen, in Italian, without food or water or a lawyer. This is a tactic called “tag-teaming,” and was a technique honed by the CIA. In the United States, her interrogation would be considered “inherently cohesive” and would not be accepted in a court of law. In total, Amanda was interviewed for 43 hours in that first week. A work week is 40 hours.
The Police first introduced Patrick’s name, saying they had proof he had been at the apartment (a lie) and literally told her to “visualise” him in the apartment. Note that she never said that she saw him murder Meredith. She said that she saw him leave Meredith’s room, which is what they had told her to imagine for 8 hours straight.
The NEXT morning, Amanda immediately wrote a statement to the Police, saying “In regards to this “confession” that I made last night, I want to make it clear that I’m very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion.”
Here are other excerpts from her notes:
“However, it was under this pressure and after many hours of confusion that my mind came up with these answers. In my mind I saw Patrik (sic) in flashes of blurred images. I saw him near the basketball court. I saw him at my front door. I saw myself cowering in the kitchen with my hands over my ears because in my head I could hear Meredith screaming. But I’ve said this many times so as to make myself clear: these things seem unreal to me, like a dream, and I am unsure if they are real things that happened or are just dreams my head has made to try to answer the questions in my head and the questions I am being asked.”
“If there are still parts that don’t make sense, please ask me. I’m doing the best I can, just like you are. Please believe me at least in that, although I understand if you don’t. All I know is that I didn’t kill Meredith, and so I have nothing but lies to be afraid of.”
“Please don’t yell at me because it only makes me more confused, which doesn’t help anyone.”
“I understand that the police are under a lot of stress, so I understand the treatment I received.”
SERIOUSLY PEOPLE PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Here is a page on how there is NO DNA evidence:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI2.html
Thanks for this. The Italian police also fixated on a text from Amanda to her boss with a colloquialism they misinterpreted. I’d like to see what psychological state the posters here would be in after being interrogated with leading questions for hours and hours in a language that is not your own.
Well, that’s wrong. There were actually only two cops and later an interpreter and she accused Patrik after just 1 hour 45 minutes. All factually accurate and outlined in the motivations report.
@Suri. No no no. It is so frustrating because that is a lie circulating on one of the big anti-Knox websites. They link the translator’s testimony as their source, hoping that the readers will be too lazy to fact check. But if you do bother to fact check, you can see that there were at least five, and she mentions four by specifically by name (Ficcara, Zugarini, Raffo, and Mignini, who came towards the end).
Also, take anything the translator says with a pound of salt. Here she is caught lying under oath:
LG (counsel):
If I show you Amanda’s 1:45 deposition from the 6th, but I say to you there aren’t any questions, and I ask you: how come not one question was put into words on the part of who… not even the acronym ADR [A Domanda Risponte = “replies as follows”], nothing?
AD (translator):
This I don’t…
LG:
You’ve said that there were questions, you translated them, there’s not even one.
AD:
If there aren’t…
GCM: Counsel is asking how come none of the questions were reported and not even the ADR?
AD:
This I don’t know.
But it really didn’t quite happen like this, she was not interviewed for this amount of time, just as a starter.
read up on things here http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page
vilebody, the cops were in and out of the room but most of the time it was just one or two. It was a casual interview and she was just a witness until she placed herself at the scene. What’s never reported is that her interview wasn’t actually admissible, but she continued to accuse Patrik with her handwritten note in English early morning next day, after plenty of break and rest. Only her handwritten note was admissible for her murder trial. Read Patsy’s link and forget the PR spin.
To all you folks throwing up excuses for this behavior, you’re repeating Knox’s PR team’s spin. Let us not forget that the Knox family hired a high-end PR firm almost immediately. All this nonsense about extended interrogations is simply not true. And for the person who said I should read that Pro-Knox website, for balance, you should check out http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php .
One year, I spent WAY too much time following this case, and I definitely think Knox did it, along with the two other guys, in a drug-fueled craze. PR spin is not going to change my mind, I’ve done too much reading on the topic.
If you think Knox was in any way involved, you haven’t really followed the case. Full stop. Every bit of evidence put forward by the prosecution, media, and the Internet vigilante commonly referred to as “guilters” has been thoroughly debunked. Every actual, credible piece of evidence points solely and unequivocally at the guilty party: Rudy Guede. Which is why Italy’s highest court exonerated her.
Knox and her family wisely hired PR people because the case was being tried in the media within days of the murder and it was all utter, fabricated nonsense, some lies that people continue to believe to this day. When the media in three different countries is running over you roughshod like that, the smart thing to do is hire experts who can counter the lies and BS.
She murdered Meredith in a drug fueled haze…do you care to offer your evidence of this? No one seems to be able to point to anything other than her behavior afterwards.
Is it because she lied when being interrogated? Because practically everyone involved made false claims that they later rescinded. And did she conspire with Guede? Or do you think it was just her? And what drug do you think sent her into said craze? Marijuana? I’m genuinely curious. I’d like to understand where you’re coming from.
I’m totally with you, @cousin erika!
@cousin Erika, now THAT is funny! You try smoking weed and then mustering the energy for a crazed, drug-fueled violent murder of this type, lol
I think it makes sense her family hired a PR team. To not have hired one might have been more detrimental to her (but I am of the opinion that there was enough reasonable doubt in the case).
Ugh, everytime one of these articles come up my insides clench.
She didn’t “evilly” plan to frame her boss and it had zero to do with him being black. The police were convinced he was involved, due to their text message exchange “a piu tardi” which means “see you later”. She said, that was just a general CYA! but the Italians said that in their language it refers to a specific plan later that night – i.e. the MURDER.
She was under immense pressure and she caved under it. They were ready to finger him so she went along to take the heat off herself. She went to gaol for that. She paid her dues. Get over it.
The police found Rudy Guede’s hair at the crime scene, so they were looking for a black person from the get-go.
She actually didn’t point her finger at him and said he killed Meredith. She indicated that they had a very close relationship and maybe a sexual one. That he had been with Meredith think that day? Think he had a temper as well? Saying your boss is intimate with your roommate isn’t pointing the finger and declaring him guilty of the murder.
I’m not sure if I believe her guilt – or innocence- but the Italian Police seemed to fixate on her and contaminate that investigation in every way possible. Had that happened in the States I cannot believe she would have been convicted on the strength of the evidence.
What is this, trial by how much you wear your heart on your sleeve? She’s guilty because ‘she seemed cold and emotionless’? She went on trial, and the appellate court acquitted her. Another man was arrested and found guilty. How is this disrespectful to Meredith Kirchner? The real murderer is behind bars and she was not found guilty. I’m not affiliated to Amanda in any way, I just find it appalling that people who read tabloid headlines are willing to judge and shame someone for having once been suspected of a crime.
Agreed. Being weird or kinky or unlikable doesn’t make you a murderer.
That is basically the argument that people still try use. She didn’t act the way they imagine they would act if there was a murder in their home. Being a unlikable is not the same as being a murderer.
Exacty. The DNA evidence was overwhelming that Guede did it. A person doesn’t have to be likeable to be innocent.
Why do you think jury trials are so terrifying?
You’re praying people focus on evidence and not how pretty the defendant is, or if she seems guilty, or if she was sad and cried enough.
How much faith do you have in a jury of your peers reading some of these comments?
To answer your question, very little. I like to think we’re a smart bunch around here, but…
So true, ESE.
Zero ESE. We do far too much photo assumption-ing and projecting.
I’ve read several articles on this case and I firmly believe that Amanda is innocent of any crime. The lies and misinformation that have been spread and are widely believed make me both mad and sad.
Completely disgusted by some of the comments on here. God forbid if I ever come up as a defendant in a jury trial I hope some of you don’t serve on that jury. “I just know she did it because I don’t like the way she (looks, acts, blinks her eyes, smiles).”
I live in Italy and followed the case quite closely. The woman is guilty to same degree. It makes me sick and angry that both Amanda and Raffaele got away with it.
It makes me never want to visit Italy the way your police handled this !! It was utterly disgusting how they behaved and they messed up the investigation.
I have never had a horse in this race, but if I read one more comment saying ” I will never visit Italy now because of your police, blah, blah, blah.” I may actually tear my hair out. You must not be American because you know that here in the good old US of A police murder non-violent as well as completely innocent black men fairly regularly with pretty much complete impunity. If you wrote off every country with corruption, or a few bad apple police, or a criminal justice system that can be ineffective or unfair, then you better be prepared to colonize the moon.
You shouldn’t live in the states if you don’t like corrupt court systems. America has one of the worst court systems in the world.
Another Italian eh? Are you ok with the way your police acted in this situation? That psychotic detective who goes after innocent people because he thinks there are Satan worshipping cults?
@Carebare Please do not rail on all Italians. I’m American by birth, but lived in Italy for many years and the Italian people are some of the most warm and hospitable people on the planet. Rail on the Italian press who slanted the story about Amanda Knox on a DAILY basis, thus poisoning the general population’s perception that Amanda was guilty. Which continues to this day. Amanda is no angel, but DNA proved she didn’t murder Meredith.
But absolutely go after the incompetent Italian prosecutor who is a disgrace to attorneys everywhere. He wanted a name for himself rather than justice for a murdered girl. I’ve read the Monster of Florence book and what was done to that journalist was criminal. The Italian judicial system needs an overhaul, yes, but no system is perfect even here in the U.S. we could do with some modifications.
@Carebare
Are you ok with how the American police acted in JonBenet’s murder? I mean, there was a thread about it two days ago….
How come you have an axe to grind against Italians, together with vilebody?
CB has been invaded by anti-Italian trolls today!
@SilverUnicorn Vilebody is not a troll, she comments quite frequently on this site. And why would you say she has an axe to grind? All of her comments are about the case itself, not Italy. If people are allowed to express their belief that she is guilty, people are also allowed to express their belief that she is not.
@KB
I wouldn’t say so from what I can read here, she/he has posted the same link in all her comments. I do not read all the threads, no time for that, sorry.
@SilverUnicorn
Ummmm I don’t have an “axe to grind” against Italians. I have said nothing about Italy or the Italian people.
I posted the link because it outlines the facts and has analysis from a former FBI agent. It is an interesting read. I didn’t realize that urging people to read up on the facts was such a horrible offense. My apologies.
The links all lead to the same website. For correctness of information you should have posted more links from different Web sources. Or it is just one-sided version of facts like the ones accusing her.
I am in no camp in this case (too many ‘pasticci’ from the local police involved); however I cannot totally dismiss she could have been guilty or that she was involved somehow but lied to lead the investigation off her. It is human nature to react like that but…. why did she try to monetise on her plight later on? Insensitive at the very least towards Kercher’s family.
Either way she will be able to lead a normal life, something that Meredith will never be able to do.
@SilverUnicorn
“You should have posted more links from different web sources.” Sorry, but I’m not your Wikipedia.
But even if I were, let’s not pretend you would read anything. You have already boasted that you “don’t have time, sorry.” Nope, instead of educating yourself, you spend the time you apparently don’t have making rude and false assumptions about me when I have done nothing but defend an innocent person. I hope, if nothing else, you are mildly ashamed at the irony.
To @H and the others focusing too much on the so-called “rogue prosecutor”: he was one of at least five or six prosecutors and has been off the case since about 2013. The most important point to note? Someone did a count and no less than 30 JUDGES HAD TO REVIEW all or some of the Knox-Sollecito-Guede evidence to keep them in jail throughout the trial, to approve that it was enough to go to trial, and finally to decide on whether there was grounds or not for conviction. The prosecutor HAS NEXT TO ZERO POWER. Mignini made great fodder for the Knox PR team and cottage industry though.
Out of curiosity, why do you think she did it when there is no physical evidence?
omg. Utterly ridiculous. This is what bugged me the most about this case — she was sexual, she was “cold”, she had no feelings, she has RBF.
Yes, because she’s not crying 24/7 or has a bitchy face lets say she is guilty. Ugh.
I keep my feelings inside most the time, people “assume” I am thinking things about them just because I have RBF or hard to read face — when in fact I am not thinking about them at all or they read me wrong all the time. I hope I am never a suspect for murder.. I will be crucified.
Right? I’m honestly so terrified and disgusted with how many people say things like “she has evil eyes she’s a murderer” or “she’s cold and has no feelings”
People should not be locked up for murder just because you think they’re weird or don’t act how you believe someone should act in a traumatic situation.
Exactly! Those things ARE NOT EVIDENCE. Period. Full stop.
Agreed. I think her personality hurt her because she came off as cold and aloof, but DNA doesn’t lie. There is scientifically no way she could have gone around that room and cleaned up every speck of her own DNA and left another’s there. People don’t have to like her, and quite frankly she is pretty unlikeable, but that doesn’t mean she did it. I don’t believe for a second she did.
This isn’t the type of gossip story I prefer. It’s not gossip, imo. Someone was murdered, a family is in pain forever.
Didn’t need a movie (a movie ffs?!) nor a write up.
Leave them be to deal with the tragedy.
It saddens me people actually still think she was involved. Has anyone actually looked at the evidence? Obviously not.
This is why I think she was involved: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Evidence#DNA_Evidence
However, it is my opinion and it is not going to change anything.
That website is filled with outright lies and a whole lot of misinformation. Just for starters, that knife? A) doesn’t have Meredith’s DNA on it. The sample that was tested was way too small for proper DNA testing, but the sham of an expert at the Italian crime lab tested anyway and claimed to find Meredith’s DNA. Other experts all looked at it and said that result was total nonsense. The scrap of something on the blade was some starch food, like rye bread or potato.
But more importantly, b) that knife had not one dang thing to do with the murder! The killer set the knife down on the bed, leaving a bloody imprint. It was much smaller than this knife randomly plucked from Raffaele’s apartment for looking “too clean.” Also, based on the wounds, we know this knife couldn’t have caused them because it is too big.
I’m not going to debunk everything on that page (though I could). Just did this one as an example of what the “guilter” crowd does to the evidence to fabricate a case against these two totally innocent people.
It is not an admirable quality to form an opinion and then doggedly stick to it even after realizing the evidence you used to form that opinion is all nonsense.
*Reads Comments*
*exits thread carefully walking backwards in a crouched position*
(Italian Police bring in cold and sexual QQ for questioning and hold hookers and calzones party at her house before they look for “evidence”)
LMFAO, MAAM!!!
HILARIOUS! +1
Thank you, QQ. Thank you.
Amanda Knox, Jodi Arias and O. J. Simpson were all born on July 9th. Just a coincidence, but kinda creepy…..
I feel similarly about this case as I do about the Ramsey’s. Amanda was targeted for her behavior and then the police and prosecutor “built a case” around that cherry picking evidence that fit their theory. Maybe Amanda Knox knows something she hasn’t admitted to, maybe she doesn’t. But, they don’t have the evidence to support her conviction, and that’s why she was let go. Just because there’s smoke in the kitchen doesn’t mean there’s a 3 alarm fire.
Except the actual evidence at the Ramsey’s house pointed them back to the Ramsey’s. Cob webs still in place inside the window after someone supposedly crawled through it to get in and an absurd ransom note where the writer described themselves as being part of a “foreign faction.” The Ramsey’s would be the foreigners to them. No one describes themselves as being foreign. You describe other people as being foreign. And they couldn’t spell business, but knew the word attaché and knew there was an accent over the e? That letter was fake as hell and insanely long for a supposed ransom note, and who demands $118,000?
That’s exactly my point. You just picked the two sole pieces of evidence (which are flimsy, at best, hence no prosecution bc they didn’t have enough) that the police could point back to. They ignored all the evidence that pointed away from the Ramsey’s. Why? They settled on the Ramsey’s INSTANTLY based on her behavior then they formed a case around them, with very little evidence and largely supported by theories. Just like they tried to do with the Ramsey’s.
People cannot criticize the Ramsey’s behavior in one breath and find it absurd to criticize Amanda Knox’s in the other. We shouldn’t be condemning people based on their behavior in a murder case. It is not real evidence.
Oops, meant to say just like they did to Amanda Knox.
What is the evidence that should have pointed them in another direction? Should they have looked for a “foreign faction?” I think there were legitimate reasons to focus on the Ramsey’s, though I agree that they mishandled the case and were in over their heads. I’m not one of those people that says “But she wasn’t even crying!” It’s the window and ransom note that stuck out for me, not how they behaved afterwards.
I also freely admit that I have no idea who killed her or what transpired. There is no evidence of any motive, so the theories that the son did it because he was a sociopath or the mother did it because she was jealous or the dad did it because he was abusing her hold absolutely no water for me. I don’t know that they’re guilty, but I understand why the police focused their attention on the Ramsey’s.
I think the Casey Anthony case has more similarities to the Knox case, though I believe Casey to be guilty and Knox to not be. There is essentially no solid proof that Casey Anthony killed Caylee, but the circumstantial evidence and her behavior and lies convinced me she was guilty, while the same thing hasn’t swayed my opinion of Knoxes innocence. I’m not defending myself, it’s pretty hypocritical to pick and choose when you believe circumstantial evidence and when you don’t. I suppose it comes down to the fact that there was another viable suspect in the Kercher case and there wasn’t in the Anthony case.
Yes, I’ll watch it. I’m not convinced of her innocence or her guilt (apparently that makes me a rarity here?) so I think it will be interesting. Comments seem to assume the documentary is meant to exonerate her… is that accurate? It says they interview the italian detective also so seems like they will present both sides?
I understand if Meredith’s family doesn’t want to participate, but I hope they were able to talk to some friends of hers or otherwise present a full picture of who she was. It has always bothered me how that is often lost in this whole story.
Do you really think the show will be unbiased?
The documentary doesn’t need to exonerate her. She has been fully exonerated by the highest court in Italy.
No Sarah she hasn’t been fully exonerated. the final Court of Cassation review verdict acquitted the pair based on ‘insufficent evidence’ not innocence. CoC even found Knox was at murder scene and washed blood of Meredith off her hands, and Sollecito was likely there too. Also found that if investigation had been carried out with more precision — the court would have confidently found for guilt!
We have our own version of this in Australian history. The Lindy Chamberlain case. Th mother whose baby was taken by a dingo, and who didn’t cry enough in public. So she was tried by public opinion and went to jail
Until it turned out she didn’t kill her baby.
So people, if you are going to be accused of a crime CRY CRY CRY!
I was living in Australia when this case happened and remember the press’ persecution of Mrs. Chamberlain. It was a crazy story, but the woman was convicted on how she reacted after, not evidence. I also think there was some religious discrimination as the Chamberlains were 7th Day Adventists, if I recall.
Cry, look sad, throw yourself on the mercy of the population – the whole 9 yards.
Women aren’t allowed NOT to be sad so clearly if you too don’t want to end up in prison for being ‘defective’ then you’d better cue up the water works.
“Women aren’t allowed NOT to be sad…”
I understand this point in a general sense, but when your kid gets eaten by a dingo I would kind of expect the mom to be sad. Whether she has to actually show sadness in a public sense isn’t necessarily something I think should be demanded from her though.
I remember the Meryl Streep movie about this, (coincidentally) titled “A Cry in the Dark”
Also
“CRY CRY CRY” defense brings up memories of the Menendez boys on the stand dressed in their slouchy crew neck sweaters.
I have thought a lot about behavior while grieving. My dad died when I was 25, and its a damn good thing that it was Cancer or me or my dad would have looked guilty as hell. Two days after she died I came home from the store to find people going through her closet taking things they wanted, my Dad had given them permission. My brothers were so “freaked out” about me not being a sobbing mess (because uterus i guess?) that they ambushed me with our therapist Aunt.
Oops! Meant to say my MOM died!
My sister committed suicide in July and I didn’t cry for several hours and even then very little the day I found out. Once it sunk in, it was like the BP oil spill for two weeks, but in those first few hours my eyes were like the Sahara desert. I felt guilty about not having the right reaction, but it makes me feel better to know that others have also acted bizarrely when confronted with grief. I’ve since gone back to my normal life and haven’t cried since those two weeks. It’s amazing how the brain can compartmentalize things.
@KB I’m so sorry to hear that. Whenever I hear people criticizing behavior of those experiencing grief I just get so frustrated. Be it Amanda Knox, the Ramsey’s, or any suspect.
My Father passed away suddenly from a heart attack unexpectedly and even while I was on the phone with 911 a detached part of my brain thought, “I sound so calm, if anyone suspected me of anything and played this tape they’d think I murdered him.”
I’ve also heard it said from a psychiatrist that people with anxiety oddly enough can become very calm and detached in extremely stressful situations able to process the situation and proceed on a logical plan while others are falling apart around them.
@The Eternal Side-Eye I have never heard that before but it makes SO much sense. I have anxiety and am a worry wart, but when I heard my mom had cancer and they weren’t sure of the extend I coldly told my crying brother (who was almost 40 to my 21) to get off webmd before I took his phone away. I have to work in high intensity work environments or I can’t get anything done. I think clearly when most people can’t think at all!
@Eternal Side Eye I’d never heard that about anxiety. I actually have anxiety as well, so that is very interesting to me. I’m also calm in crisis/emergency type situations.
Sorry to hear these stories, friends Hugs to ya’ll!!, I Identify with this I’m not a crier at all i’m an “ok what do I do??What needs planning/Who needs a Plane ticket/Let me make calls/let me handle sleeping arrangements” It takes me a good week and the privacy of a shower ALONE to have any sort of outburst or emotional response
@all
Hey glad to hear my tidbit offered some insight for some of y’all. It surprised even me but it did give me that lightbulb moment of understanding why when I’m usually an anxiety ridden mess I was able to totally turn off my emotions in that moment and turn into an efficient thinking machine.
Guess it’s the super power that comes with the curse? Either way hugs to all!
Testing has placed me on the very mild end of Aspergers but I think many disorders such as my other diagnosis of ADD are simply personality traits. I’m very calm and don’t see the point of emoting when you can be doing something instead. I’m a crisis response trainer and some people panic and some spring to action when they get an adrenalin rush.
When my mother died (cardiac arrest due to complications from leukaemia, died shortly after arriving at hospital in the ambulance) , it was a public holiday here in the UK and the evening to boot, and so the coroner’s office in the hospital was closed. Because it was a sudden death, we therefore had to talk to the police before we went home. Nobody thought anything suspicious had happened and that was made very clear by everyone, including the police officers – it’s just that the police have to act on behalf of the coroner here if the coroner is not available. It’s just a thing to do with issuing a death certificate.
Anyway. The shock of having to talk to men in uniforms at that moment had an awful effect on my dad. He knew really that he wasn’t under suspicion of anything but he went around for weeks saying, “But what if they think?”
Not nice.
That’s the thing, I don’t think there is any ‘normal’ and ‘proper’ reaction to situations like these. People are literally not wired the same way and don’t respond to situations in the same manner. That’s also why you can’t tell if someone is lying because ‘they looked away’. What if they’re gaze-avoidant? Some people just cannot understand that people are not neurologically the same and that it’s perfectly alright and the norm to have this type of variety in reactions.
It also goes to show you how media portrayals influence our ideas about psychology, even when they’re in contradiction to actual studies. The kind of emotional numbness portrayed by Chamberlain is a fairly common response to trauma – we shut down emotionally so that we aren’t overwhelmed cognitively.
Her eyes and expressions frighten me. I followed the case pretty closely and I’m not buying she was not in some way involved. Her profiting from the story is sickening.
Because of her eyes and expressions?
Right? I can’t believe the rampant misogyny and ignorance in this thread. The same inaccuracies and baseless character accusations still abound years later.
So many people who know without a shadow of a doubt that she’s guilty in spite of their inability to provide any legitimate evidence to support this. And they all followed the case very closely! Not close enough to know all of the lies that have since been debunked, but close enough to know she’s guilty! Critical thinking skills, people!
And is she profiting or trying to clear her name after being convicted in the court of public opinion?
Or is she trying to recoup for her family the money they paid out to get her freed?
Btw, “Foxy Knoxy” is the nickname given to her from her team mates from her soccer playing days in high school.
It’s terrifying to me that someone’s social awkwardness can lead to them being railroaded into prison.
THIS. I’ve taught special needs children, many on the Austim spectrum and hope to god no one would ever try to judge them on how they act if they are ever accused of a crime. I have no idea if Amanda has any disabilities, but to say she’s guilty because she has “dead eyes” or “didn’t cry properly.” No. Just no.
Yep. My friend, who has two autistic children, found this case frightening for exactly that reason. I’m diagnosed ADHD/anxiety, and I can sometimes misread social cues or behave oddly under certain kinds of pressure. I can’t imagine how much worse the struggle would be for somebody with severe limitations on their ability to read and express emotional and psychologically acceptable social behaviors.
My best friend from high school had RBF before RBF was a thing. She was a new girl in school, and everyone hated on her because although very attractive, she appeared icy and bitchy and distant. She was (and is) one of the greatest people I’ve ever known. Granted, it was a bunch of high schoolers, but I wonder if her RBF would have convicted her?
The main thing I took away from this case was that every country has a messed up legal system to some degree, and you better be damn sure you know the system you are being tried in.
Yep! Here’s the comment I was looking for.
THIS. As a lawyer it never ceases to amaze me how many people fail to understand that justice systems vary from country to country and that being American does not give you carte blanche to violate other countries’ laws unpunished. Plus, despite the Constitution and decades of jurisprudence designed to give people accused of crimes fair treatment and justice under the law, plenty of innocent people are convicted of crimes they did not commit in the U.S. The lucky ones eventually get exonerated, but many more suffer lifelong consequences for not being able to prove that the police and prosecutors went after the wrong guy. The same is undoubtedly true in every other country in the world that has a reasonably functional criminal justice system.
I live in WA and I recently served Amanda at a cafe. To those saying she’s “not right” she did have a strangely flat affect to her. She’s quiet, but doesn’t seem shy. Unsmiling, but not unfriendly. Didn’t react at all to any friendliness. I would GUESS (don’t skewer me for armchair diagnosis) that she may have Asperger’s.
I didn’t know who she was until the end of the meal when she gave me her credit card and I read the name, so my observations were not biased. I just thought she looked familiar.
Perhaps her personality and dead eyes are because she was wrongly convicted, interrogated and jailed not to mention that although she was acquitted people still think she is guilty and analyze her every move.
I would never use the words “dead eyes” to deacribe anyone other than a Lohan or Kartrashian. There was nothing “wrong” with her. There were things about her that reminded me of myself and my friend’s daughter, whio have both been diagnosed with Asperger’s (how I drastically changed my social skills through LSD is another story!).
Of course, being falsely imprisoned and living under such public scrutiny for years would also prove difficult to the most average personality. We live in such an age of rudeness that I don’t want to imagine how people treat her publicly. Hopefully her anonymity and my warmth towards her was refreshing.
Unless you have a medical degree, the proper training, and adequately evaluated Amanda, you have NO business diagnosing her with anything. “I waited on her once and she wasn’t cheerful enough so she must have Asperger’s” is just as bad as these people wanting her locked up because she liked casual sex and didn’t cry enough. FFS
Hence my disclaimer. I was merely relating a personal anectodal experience with regards to the fact that just because she seems “flat” or “off” doesn’t mean she is guilty. Foibles and emotional responses should not be the determiners of guilt. It saddens me that you feel that her personality is wrong or damning.
I know what you mean. I’ve met those kinds of people with a kind of flat affect. I have obviously no idea if it’s nature or nurture or realistically some combo of them but I do think we tend to find those people “cold” and sometimes don’t give them the benefit of the doubt that we would give to a bubbly giddy cheerleader type.
Though I’d bet there are just as many sociopaths that are seemingly friendly and kind as those that are icy and standoffish.
I guess reserved people are basically screwed in the court of public opinion. We’d need to put on a spectacle to be believed.
Agreed with your last sentence. I’ve met a number of bubbly cheerleader types and having those characteristics does not stop them from being liars, abusers, or any other bad thing. It’s just one character trait, it does not inform on the rest of their character, how could it?
It’s frightening that people are still convinced that she had any involvement in this. I am pretty familiar with the details of this case, having translated parts of the actual judicial reports and other reports (like the forensic report that effectively demolished the police’s forensic work during their second trial) from Italian into English. I have also read numerous books about the case, from Knox’s and Sollecito’s books (Sollecito has an English language book he wrote with the help of a ghostwriter and an Italian book that is more recent), Meredith’s father John Kercher’s book, Nina Burleigh’s and others. I went into this case merely as an interested observer; I didn’t approach it with any preconceived notions. Anyone who has close familiarity with how this case was handled, with the prosecutor’s history of lurid fantasizing in place of actual evidence (read The Monster of Florence by Mario Spezi and Douglas Preston for more on that), etc. should really have no doubt at all that both she and Sollecito are innocent of this crime.
It’s also worth looking into the work of the Innocence Project and various criminal justice researchers in academia to understand just how common false confessions actually are (much more common than most people probably realize). I don’t consider what Knox said to the police to be a “confession” as in, “I did it,” but she clearly was heavily pressurized to make false statements, including statements that had a very unfortunate and terrible impact on an innocent man’s life. The pattern of what happened completely follows that which can be observed in other cases of false confession, and the police bear a heavy burden of responsibility for that (and for what it’s worth: she was completely cooperative for days leading up to her arrest, constantly returning for follow-up interviews, naively unaware that they were zeroing in on her as a suspect and naive enough not to get a lawyer even though I think family members advised her to do so, and hers and Meredith’s two Italian roommates obtained lawyers right away).
I am absolutely convinced she and Sollecito didn’t do it and I think any objective of analysis of the totality of facts in this case completely bears that out. While I feel very sorry for the Kercher family, I do believe they have been misled by their dodgy lawyer (who is also a social acquaintance/friend of the original prosecutor) and they find it difficult to accept that everything they were told and assured of by their lawyer and by the media has unraveled so spectacularly. I think everyone should focus more on the mostly invisible perpetrator of this horrible crime, Rudy Guede, whose DNA and fingerprints were all over the scene (I guess Knox and Sollectio were brilliant enough to get rid of literally every trace of themselves while leaving every speck of evidence pointing to Guede perfectly in place — imagine!) He will be out of prison in just a few years, free to potentially commit another crime of this nature, and yet no one ever seems to talk about that. In all of the heated discussion and dissection of Knox, Guede gets completely lost.
I will be seeing the documentary. It’s not the fault of the filmmakers that the Kerchers chose not to share a platform with Knox. The Kerchers deserve justice, a hell of a lot more than they ever got, and they deserve the truth, which I think is available for anyone truly interested. It’s completely understandable that they just want to put all of this behind them as much as possible. But it’s not justice for Meredith, or for any victim, to have the wrong person put in prison for the crime. They deserve their pound of flesh — just not from Amanda Knox or Raffaele Sollecito.
(Phew — sorry for the long comment! This one gets me going…)
The fact that it’s Knox on the receiving end of so much hate rather than Guede is what I don’t understand. What is it about this case that causes people to throw all rational thought processes out the window? Someone said they believed she murdered Kercher in a “drug induced craze.” I mean that’s straight out of the satanic panic playbook of the 80s. I can’t believe the number of people buying into this false narrative.
And your point about them managing to erase all traces of themselves while leaving Guede’s DNA, bloody footprints, etc is completely on the money. It is absolutely illogical and does not serve Meredith Kercher any justice.
Somewhere along the way, the quest for the truth and for justice became conflated with the quest to take down Amanda Knox for not behaving how they expected her to. The fact that not a single person here could explain what evidence proved she was guilty without repeating myths that have been debunked or arguments that fly in the face of what we know to be true about false confessions and interrogation tactics, tells me all I need to know.
If they genuinely cared about what happened to Meredith Kercher, they would be more knowledgable about the case. And turning that around and claiming that it’s an affront to Meredith Kercher and her family is classic misdirection, a level at which would make Donald Trump beam with pride.
I’m with both of you, amazed at how rational thought and logic just fly out the window for so many people worldwide where this woman is concerned. I am so fascinated by this story, not from the perspective of the crime itself (which was a very garden-variety burglary-rape-murder by a known-burglar), but from the perspective of how committed people are to believing this woman is a murderer despite all of the facts and evidence pointing so clearly and unequivocally away from her.
Jessica, sorry, but I suspect you might be a PR poster (but I might be wrong). Nina Burleigh might be a fairly prominent and respected journalist but in her reporting she was called out many times by lay-watchers for getting the most basic facts wrong. Her problem was she doesn’t speak Italian.
No, Nina had the facts correct. It’s the Barbie Latza Nadeau’s of the world who got it wrong. Nina Burleigh’s book is about the most credible book on the case. (I’ve read them all.) The basic facts clearly point to Rudy Guede.
Excuse me, Suri? I’m not a “PR poster”. I have posted on this site many times as I’m sure the mods can attest. I’m just an ordinary person. I live in Egypt. What more do you want? I don’t have anything at all to prove to you and I don’t appreciate you doubting my integrity just because you don’t like the substance of my post. I wrote it thoughtfully and in good faith. Despicable.
Jessica, I recommend you read John Follain’s book and the site Patsy has linked to here for a balanced view. It’s well known Burleigh had the Knox family on speed dial (and they her) and bent over backwards to continue the PR spin. She’s another of the Knox-cottage-industry people. It’s a symbiotic relationship and she’s profited from it.
There is DNA evidence of Knox and Sollecito in parts of the apartment that was affected by the murder: his DNA on Meredith’s bra hook, Knox’s blood mixed with Meredith’s blood in the bathroom. Bloody footprints cleaned with bleach did not belong to Guede.
http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/The_Evidence#DNA_Evidence
Who knows who actually murdered this poor girl, but it seems they are not completely innocent.
Please stop posting these lies and believing this nonsense. That bra clasp wasn’t collected for 6 weeks after the murder and had moved across the room in the interim. DNA testing found no fewer than 4 full male DNA profiles on it. Are all of those unknown men also guilty? Or is that evidence just so hopelessly contaminated as to be worthless? I’m going with the second.
And those dang footprints. Oy. They tested negative for blood. That’s how we know they weren’t bloody footprints. Luminol reacts to things other than blood. Once you get the reaction, you have to do further testing to determine if it’s blood. These footprints tested negative. They are just footprints Amanda left walking around her house, probably after a shower. Also, since those footprints were in the same narrow hallway where Guede left his visible trail of footprints, it would have been a really nifty trick for her to clean up only her own footprints, leaving his intact.
Every ounce of “evidence” touted by the guilters (the people behind that website) is fabricated and contorted beyond all recognition. The truth is they were not in any way involved.
You are wrong. I cannot believe these lies keep getting repeated years after they were thoroughly and comp!etely identified as lies. The DNAa on the bra hook was contamination; go watch the video of the data being collected if you don’t believe me. Knox’s DNA, not her blood, was in her bathroom she shared with Meredith–do you think your DNA is in your bathroom? The bloody footprint matches Guede’s foot perfectly. I don’t know how you think they cleaned their own DNA out of a crime scene and left Guede’s. Magical DNA eyes?
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/TheBraClasp.html
The injustice site has been debunked from here to the moon. Full of inaccuracies. All the stuff in the site linked by Emma credible and referenced back to motivation reports / the judge’s reports.
She lived in the dam* apartment!!! Common sense should tell most people of course her DNA would be in the apartment SHE LIVED IN.
If you wish. I’m sure there were many Italian people who decided not to visit or immigrate on the basis of that case, which is their right.
I have a problem with the actual Italian justice system more than any one particular injustice, though. The system allows irrelevant evidence (how many sex partners???) and double jeopardy. There are unjust results that come out of every system, but most make an effort to have a basically fair system – to my mind, Italy does not.
Yes, will definitely watch
Mexicana here.
This Melody person has got to be a comedienne. For real.
I have been to Italy, but not to Greece. I effing love what I got to see, not as much as I wanted, but Italy, its history, its culture, its food!!! Paolanqar, I like that you like GOT and I like your country and its historical places. I am a sucker for history.
And well, we still get to enjoy many nice places. I would love to visit Brazil and Colombia, and some places that have sadly endured violence due to drug trafficking. I, as an educator, am doing my best to fight the pervasive and normalized drug culture (music, videos, series, movies, in English, in Spanish). It is seen as so “normal” that many kids are picking on it younger and younger. Other tourists who want to visit are welcome tho, there are
Many beautiful natural and historic places in my country for you to visit that are safe. Much love.
And I love Mexico!
I have spent 4 months backpacking between Mexico and Guatemala a few years ago.
Let me just say that I loved Chapas. San Cristobal de Las Casas is one of the most fascinating places I have seen in my life. And of course all the ruins.. and the forest.. and the beaches.. and the people. My god. Such a beautiful country. I will never forget swimming under the ruins in Tulum and going to Isla Mujeres.. I just loved all of it but it’s such a big country… maybe one day i will go back to visit the other coast, on the Pacific, and maybe jump off a cliff in Acapulco ( no. i won’t!)
Getting someone to make a false confession is, with a percentage of the population (no idea of actual figures), easy to the point the British police (who I only use as an example because I’m from the UK and read the guidance a few years back) actually have lengthy procedures and specially trained interviewers to deal with vulnerable witnesses to stop them doing it accidentally. It can genuinely be easier to get a false confession than be sure you are being told the truth in certain circumstances.
I have no idea whether or not Amanda Knox was involved (I am sure there wasn’t enough evidence for a safe conviction). I am also sure that the way she was interviewed means she would have said whatever they wanted. One of the signs of a false confession is someone who eventually says ‘yes’ to a scenario put forward by the interrogator (rather than making a spontaneous confession), then elaborates (and often gets details wrong) before retracting when they are no longer subject to the same pressure. Her blaming her boss is a classic example of this. The Italian police brought him up first, she agreed, she got details wrong (like the fact it wasn’t him!) and retracted once she’d recovered a bit.
Her interview seriously read like the ‘before’ scenario of a training course into proper interviewing.
The Italian police are very lucky that their ‘pick a black guy, any black guy’ line of enquiry didn’t let Guede get away with it. A little less evidence against him and what they coerced Amanda into saying could have led to him being acquitted. Please note – I am not saying she is definitely not involved. I don’t know and after the mess the police made of the investigation I think she and her then boyfriend are the only ones who do know for sure.
This girl got off because she is pretty. How shallow are the US judicial system & news media that covered this story. I feel so bad for the girl she and her ex-boyfriend killed.
She got off because there was a lack of proper evidence and the police made a pig’s ear of the investigation. She was interrogated in a manner that certainly would not have been allowed in the UK. Actually she isn’t that pretty.
Yes you are correct the investigation was a mess. She is a creep and guilty. She reminds me of Casey Anthony. RIP to her victim.
Being a creep, being socially awkward/odd does not mean she is a killer.
Doesn’t alter the fact that the whole thing was a terrible tragedy. But that isn’t evidence.
Look up the case of Christopher Jefferies.
@anon, oh look its another Goggle expert.
How do you know someone is guilty without DNA evidence? Sure wouldn’t want your bias on any jury trial.
Agree with Meredith: I also will not travel to Italy Being American makes you feel that if you are in the wrong place in Italy at the wrong time, you will not be judged fairly.
Well it certainly looks like the administrators of that pro-Knox website have had a busy day. I don’t remember ever seeing only one website linked as proof of an argument before.
Did you actually check any of the links out? I went to the link provided by someone who believes her to be guilty and read through several articles. I didn’t find any of it to be particularly persuasive (simply because it was more focused on the critics of the investigation than on the actual proof of Knoxes guilt), but I did give it a chance. I hope you did the same because the site I linked offers an incredibly detailed examination of the evidence presented at trial as well as the evidence that was reported but did not actually exist.
I have had mixed emotions about this case and still do. I don’t think she actually murdered Meredith but I think she was definitely involved in the cover-up. But that’s all it is, one under-informed person’s opinion about a very mixed-up case.
I love true-crime stories, but there is seems to be something creepy about these recent ones like Making a Murderer and this new one that affects the public view and all that.
I understand public outrage when there is clear-cut evidence of an innocent person persecuted, however, in confusing and NOT CLEAR-CUT stories such as this one and Making a Murderer, it seems wrong to have such strong public opinions and outrage and all this when we do not have all the information.
Sometimes there are miscarriages of justice, and in those cases, yes, it is important to speak out. But in cases such as this, sometimes we need to just trust those charged with carrying out justice.
She can be a cold and insensitive person without being a murderer. Hell, there are psycopaths who don’t kill. Being “off”, and she is, is not conclusive evidence that she has ever harmed anyone, let alone risked her freedom to murder her roommate.
I believe there was enough reasonable doubt in this case to believe in her potential innocence, but I also don’t think she across as particularly sympathetic in interviews either. I don’t know if that’s because we also know of the grief the Kercher family is going through, and that another woman died so the attempt to shift pity to Knox winds up making me feel ambivalent. With the type of personality she has which doesn’t come across well in public forums (or at crime scenes), I would probably avoid interviews altogether and live a very private life (not in a secluded embarrassed way if I didn’t commit the crime, but I wouldn’t seek out or rely on the media to try and make me look good if I’m not a naturally charismatic person. Once you give interviews, the narrative of how you come across gets out of your control and in the end you can’t really control what people think of you 100 percent. I would rely on my family and friends to give me validation for how I am as a person but not the media. In her post-Italy life, she’s getting married and seems to have some sort of career, so on some level she does seem to be validated by the people that count).
I wouldn’t want my reputation besmirched like hers was, but I also think she seems to have come out of it better than someone else in the same position might. She doesn’t seem to be denied the opportunities that someone else who has been wrongly convicted usually faces (i.e men of color who go to jail for crimes they didn’t commit for something like 35 years, and whose lives have ultimately been altered irrevocably by that span of time that was taken from them and then have to re-adapt to a life where their economic opportunities might be zero).
I don’t have “hatred” for Knox, but I think it’s harder to feel the need to passionately advocate for her when it seems that life has worked out for her in the end (she’s back in her country of nationality, and it looks like she’ll have a family and career and all the other things that other people aspire to.)
I don’t think she’s guilty but even when she talks about her own suffering her voice breaks in a way that seems a bit forced. I wonder why she does interviews (does she get reimbursed to pay off her legal fees?) — she doesn’t really do them well especially when she tries to convey emotion. I think if she didn’t actually TRY for emotion she might come across better. It’s like she’s forcing her voice to do something that it naturally can’t do.
But as I said, I do think there’s enough reasonable doubt that she shouldn’t have been in prison.
If so, she may do it because she has been told to show emotions. Its sucks when you are a stoic person and have to “act” to make other people comfortable with the truth. People basing her guilt on her emotions, TBH are probably the same bunch that votes for the person with best personality. Not a lot of logic in their thought process or factual thinking. I’m a stoic person that has to be fake sometimes so other people are comfortable.
At this point the only thing I am interested in is an actual explanation/timeline/clarification of the murder and how/what evidence there is that Guede is guilty. Meredith just seems to get lost in all of the Knox drama again. Knox is still a terrrible, awkward presence on screen, even her tears of self pity seem for show. She doesn’t turn away from the camera once even though she is “distraught” at the memories of what happened to her. I don’t think cold-ness or inability to show real emotion makes her a killer, I am inclined to think she was witch hunted, but I wish she would stop trying to prove her innocence in the court of public opinion. Both of these trailers seem identical to me tbh, neither one makes me feel more or less inclined to believe Amanda.
Meredith made a call home that got cut off right around 8:58 pm. Her phones (taken by her killer) pinged away from her home sometime around 10 pm. And her stomach contents indicate she was killed in that time frame as well. Meanwhile, a witness puts Amanda and Raffaele inside his apartment at 8:45 pm.
The evidence pointing to Rudy Guede is his DNA all over the room where Meredith was killed, also on her body consistent with a sexual assault. He left a visible trail of bloody footprints out of the house. He fled the country the next day. In an internet chat with a friend a few days later, he made incriminating statements and flatly said Amanda and Raffaele had not been involved. It’s really pretty clear Rudy broke into the house when no one was there and then was surprised when Meredith came home. He was known to break into places and carry a knife.
Given that people like Suri and Patsy to this day post debunked lies and try to smear her publicly, I won’t fault Amanda for speaking out about her innocence. Not one bit.
Thank you Sarah for writing so clearly to this case.
I live in Washington state and have heard so much of what the both the Kercher and Knox families went through.
My empathy and compassion to the families and to Suri and Patsy who continue to smear someone acquitted. I hope both Suri and Patsy can learn to find truth throuugh postings and readings to finally accept the acquittal and move on.
Peace out
I think he speaking about her innocence would be more effective if she just outright stated that the other guy’s DNA was all over the place. That’s direct, clear, and to the point.
The way she presents her own life story in narrative form in terms of what she was like growing up playing sports and what she is like now as a more guarded figure winds up making her version of what happened in Italy seem as convoluted as the way the media has presented the murder case (imo). I suppose that approach is meant to humanize her and seem like a daughter, friend, blah blah blah, but it doesn’t really point out the direct facts of the case that could easily clear her name and end doubts in people’s minds. I would be screaming in interviews that the other guy’s DNA was all over the place and that I was nowhere near the place rather than trying to make everyone understand the totality of my life. The latter tends to distract everyone from understand that there was clear-cut evidence that proves my innocence. People have short attention spans and don’t have time to ponder every aspect of what happened, including what occurred before travelling to Italy, so I would cut to the chase.
Thanks Sarah, I knew about the dna, I guess I just never understood what narrative people decided was the motive for her killing (other than the obvious/thwarted advances etc). I guess I never felt like I got a picture of Kercher’s story, her personality, any of it. Or maybe it’s been so long of only hearing about Amanda some of those details have blurred? I live in the U.K. so of course the focus was always on Knox and the British Press were just as bad as the Italian police. I agree Amanda has a right to protest her innocence, but it always feels really complex and like @perplexed is saying, I wish she wouldn’t overexplain her personality/motives so much, even though it is understandable, I just think it’s not going to change anyone’s mind at this point.
And forgot to add, three footprints, women’s size 37, were made in Kercher’s blood in her room. These were not cleaned away because they were on bedding. Yep, that’s right: Knox wears a 37. Much more evidence of this type that’s way too much to summarise here.
Actually the courts accepted time of murder/death was around 11.00 to 11.30, when two separate witnesses living next door heard the scream and one of them heard at least two people running away. And people forget Sollecito / ex-bf maintained for a long time Knox left his apartment during the night and didn’t come back until early morning.
Guede’s bloody footprints had him running right out of the cottage and not turning to lock the door. That’s why no one believes Guede was the one who came back and cut off her bra after the blood had dried and moved her body also after the blood had dried. Because if he came back to move her, why didn’t he take the time clean up his own bloody footprints?
And if it wasn’t Knox and Sollecito’s footrpints in Kercher’s blood revealed by luminol, when did Sollecito and Knox rub their feet with fruit juice, bleach, or rust and walk around the cottage before cleaning it all up? Because those are the only other things that could have been revealed by luminol.
Ignore the super incriminating knife with mixed DNA (Knox and Kercher) – which was collected by a different team under perfectly followed procedures, from Sollecito’s apartment (the only problem was Kercher’s cell was just that: one single cell and considered a low sample that couldn’t be replicated) – and you still have lots of problematic issues for Knox.
For example, Knox’s DNA was mingled in equal doses with Kerchers in the bathroom and in the room of the staged break-in, where it had no business being there. Equal doses suggests she was in fact bleeding and her blood was mixed with Kercher’s blood, and since it had been wiped away and was only revealed by luminol, it’s even more likely it was comingled blood rather than just Knox DNA mixed with Kercher’s blood. Note Knox’s DNA was found very rarely elsewhere in the cottage even though she was living there. You don’t leave DNA around that easily. And why did she repeatedly remind the policewoman of Guede’s excrement and act so worried when she thought it was flushed away?
And the final judgement – which made of point of citing the Italian code that finds her not guilty due to insufficient evidence (not innocent) – found fault with a lot of the DNA evidence but very pointedly accepted that the bathroom blood spots with lots of Knox DNA could only have been due to “epithelial rubbing” as Knox washed her hands of Kercher’s blood.
To my knowledge Nencini’s acceptance of the Knox-Sollecito call to the police being made AFTER the postal police surprised them at the cottage hasn’t been rebutted by Cassation. So there’s another huge piece of evidence.
Bottom line: it’s a complex case with a lot of evidence against her, both circumstantial and physical. You can either read up on it or you can believe the PR and Knox-cottage-industry people. Knox’s parents screened their journalistic contacts very carefully and gave interviews only to those they wanted to work with.
The contortions that people like you go through to make this evidence sound bad are mind-blowing. The first court had to set time of death that late because otherwise, it knew Knox and Sollecito were innocent because of their being at his house as late as 8:45. But it simply doesn’t match the phone evidence and the stomach content evidence. Based on when she ate dinner, she wasn’t still alive at 10 pm, let alone 11.
You know very well that knife had nothing to do with the murder. And every credible expert (which excludes Stefanoni) found no human DNA on that blade, certainly not Meredith’s. It is nothing more than a knife Knox used at Sollecito’s apartment to cook.
And the footprints. Oy. All of the footprints in Meredith’s bedroom are Guede. The contortions necessary to make the claim otherwise are so ridiculous. There are no women’s size 37 prints, just partial prints.
And the timing of that phone call. The police had to use a clock at a parking garage that they KNEW was off by at least 10 minutes to make it seem like Raf didn’t call the police until after other police had arrived. But the police log shows that can’t be right as the log shows those officers returning the phones didn’t leave the station until after they arrived if the time stamp on the parking garage camera was right. Even if that were somehow possible, there is still the point that the two made numerous phone calls both to Raf’s sister (a police officer) and to the other roommates before that. So they were inviting scrutiny.
It is a myth that this is a complex case. I have read on it extensively and it just isn’t complex at all. It is a rather pedestrian, garden-variety burglary turned rape/murder. Crimes like this happen pretty much every day around the world. There was nothing unusual or unique about this case until the overzealous Italian authorities announced their suspects based on nothing at all and then had to massively contort evidence to try to make a case stick.
It is obscene that people are still perpetuating these lies to smear two totally innocent people.
Sarah, most of your points have been proven outright wrong during the course of the trials. (But, yes, there are some borderline issues.) Won’t go into detail here but you’re buying the spin – or you’re part of the spinning team. 🙂 Agree to disagree, but I still recommend people interested to read up on it themselves since the US mainstream media did a horrific job on it.
Judging by the comment here most people don’t know that much about the case. I really agree with Patsy and Cousin Erika, and good to see others have taken the time to read up on the evidence and avoid the PR spin from the Knox cottage industry.
Sheesh Suri, thank you now if only Sarah could act as level headed in replying to people who simply disagree with her analysis!
Returned from 9 days in Perugia, traveling Umbria, just two weeks before the earthquake.
It was fascinating as an American who has traveled all over Italy, to visit beautiful Umbria for the first time. Americans basically associate Perugia with Amanda Knox, and that’s a shame.
It’s a lovely city, a lovely region, and those who wish not to travel due to the “Italian justice system” should just stay home and let the rest of us enjoy it’s fairly unspoiled hospitality and stunning countryside.
Go away, little girl. Stay away from little girl. Just another sell-out who craves the attention after it all.
I don’t want to comment Amanda’s innocence or guilt: even if I’m Italian I followed very few this case, ’cause it became very soon a “mediatic” case. I don’t know if it’s only an italian problem or if you can find the same in other countries, but I think the work of the judges should be very more reserved and far away from tv cameras. Judges should not become celebrities, it’s the only way to keep their job objective and free from the moods of the people.
Was Sollecito as demonized by different media as Knox was? He was kissing her in that video too, but no one ever seems to mention him behaving strangely….or was it mentioned and it simply wasn’t talked about as much because he’s Italian ( not American) and not necessarily perceived as attractive as she was?
I do remember thinking that her behaviour was odd at the crime scene, but it also seemed like the camera panned in more towards her face whereas I can’t really see his facial expressions. Nonetheless, he was kissing too, and that behaviour from him strikes me as just as odd. (No one ever talks about him being wired neurotypically different either, but again, I’m not sure if that’s because he’s not American and of less interest to American media because of that. ? Their behaviour in that video footage mirrors each other, but I never hear much about being socially odd.)
As someone that is extremely stoic, rarely shows emotions, even if I’m dying on the inside being charged with a crime terrifies me. Think the jury would find me guilty because of the assumption of if your don’t show emotions, act odd, you are guilty. Also as proven by some of the comments on his a lot of people are Goggle forensic crime experts because they can link to conspiracy web sites and a few documents. In the age of everyone is an expert, you are now guilty before you are proved innocent.
Meredith was the victim, yet the film is called Amanda Knox. Says it all.