I’m a little bit sorry for half-defending Kate Upton yesterday. I didn’t really give a full-throated defense of her because before now, I just thought she was a bowl of oatmeal. You know? She was just too bland to really be controversial. I’ve revised my opinion of Upton as she waded even further into the athlete-anthem controversy though. Now I just need her to get off of social media, because she sounds like she really hasn’t considered what she’s saying or why African-Americans are trying to draw attention to certain issues by the simple act of disruption, the act of taking a knee for the anthem.
Yesterday, I just focused on Kate’s tweets and I didn’t even get them all (I’m sorry). After her tweets – where she told athletes what they “should” do and what is and is not “acceptable” – she tweeted back to Soledad O’Brien, who was basically like “just take a breath and think for a moment about what you’re saying.” There was also some back and forth about whether she finds it “acceptable” to protest during the anthem at all, or just specifically unacceptable on 9/11. She ended up coming down on “never” protesting during the anthem, especially on 9/11. She also posted this longer #HotTake on Instagram:
In my opinion, the national anthem is a symbolic song about our country. It represents honoring the many brave men and women who sacrifice and have sacrificed their lives each and every single day to protect our freedom. Sitting or kneeling down during the national anthem is a disgrace to those people who have served and currently serve our country. Sitting down during the national anthem on September 11th is even more horrific.
Protest all you want and use social media all you want. However, during the nearly two minutes when that song is playing, I believe everyone should put their hands on their heart and be proud of our country for we are all truly blessed. Recent history has shown that it is a place where anyone no matter what race or gender has the potential to become President of the United States. We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.
After the song is over, I would encourage everyone to please use the podium they have, stand up for their beliefs, and make America a better place. The rebuilding of battery park and the freedom tower demonstrates that amazing things can be done in this country when we work together towards a common goal. It is a shame how quickly we have forgotten this as a society.
Today we are more divided then ever before. I could never imagine multiple people sitting down during the national anthem on the September 11th anniversary. The lessons of 911 should teach us that if we come together, the world can be a better and more peaceful place #neverforget.
Yeah… I actually understand what Kate is *trying* to say, but the language she uses is “horrific,” to use her word. To some people, sitting out the anthem is a “disgrace,” to some it isn’t. Upton’s argument that “we are all truly blessed” is something that comes from a place of privilege, and she doesn’t acknowledge that at all. These athletes protested because they don’t feel “blessed.” They see black children and black women and black men being gunned down on the street. They don’t see the same kind of justice system that white people see. They don’t see the same educational advantages that white people see. They don’t even see many white people simply acknowledging that they have a right to feel angry and sad, and they have a right to protest. No one is asking Upton to cosign every issue being raised by Kaepernick and his supporters, but at least acknowledge that they have the right to speak, to disrupt, to protest… by any means necessary.
“Recent history has shown that it is a place where anyone no matter what race or gender has the potential to become President of the United States. We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.” I’ll translate: we had a black president for eight years so why aren’t “you people” grateful? So much privilege.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.
‘We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.’
Jingoism much?
I always thought she was a Brit.
Me too!! So imagine my shock that she has anything to say about the athletes.
That said, she needs to shut her pie hole, STAT! I’m getting really ragey at hearing her ridiculousness. My eyes can’t roll hard enough for her, what a Jackie.
What was horrific was her doing the Dougie or Cat daddy at a basketball game that dance should have been protested. To be honest that’s how she was discovered she was caught in camera blond and big chested. Thats all the world (media) needed to see a white girl appropiating a dance started by black people. So in a country where anyone can be who they want (black President) we should sit back shut up and put your hands on ur heart during the National Anthem. Ok we get it.
She’s an idiot and if she thinks sitting the anthem is horrific she can move to China or North Korea. They have similar views
Once again for the idiots in the back: you don’t get to tell me how to protest
Nicole, have you ever even been to China? Your comment essentially refutes the point that you are trying to prove. I’d hardly say that the majority people of China are living under an oppressive and horrific regime. It’s just another one of those bullsh*t stories that the Western media like to propagate.
Laura, I suggest you read up on the human rights abuses in China. yes, they do live under an oppressive regime that detains human rights activists and journalists who speak out against the gov’t oppression. Start with Human Rights Watch.
oh, and then there’s that whole Tibet thing…
I think Laura is trying to say that most people in China just go about their daily lives, as they do in most countries. I don’t think she is saying that there are no human rights issues in China. We all know there are.
The topic at hand here is the constant patriotic ritual that takes place in the US and the social shaming of people who do not adhere to it.
This is what makes the US different to most other countries, including those with widely acknowledged democratic deficits or authoritarian, even totalitarian regimes. As Timbuktu notes below, she once lived in what was the USSR and there was no constant anthem-playing during the course of daily life or social shaming for not taking part in it over it there.
This is why people find it weird when Americans say well go to China then. Because this daily, overweening patriotic ritual is not present at all in most countries, including China. Nobody would cart you off to the re-education camp for not doing it because it doesn’t even happen in the first place.
“during the nearly two minutes when that song is playing, I believe everyone should put their hands on their heart and be proud of our country”
as Nicole said, maybe she should move to China or North Korea where, if you don’t, you get shot.
“Recent history has shown that it is a place where anyone no matter what race or gender has the potential to become President of the United States.”
Recent history has shown us that this country is a place where, no matter what race or gender you are, there’s someone who is going to try to keep you down. There, FIFY, Katie-pie.
man, she is so blind to her privilege.
Ok, come on. I am sure you get in a lot of nasty trouble for not standing to the national anthem, but I’m fairly sure you don’t get shot. Saying this seems to me to be an extension of Kate’s”we live in the most special place in the world”.
a pastor in the US suggested that people who don’t stand should be shot.
while my post may have been an exaggeration, you got the point. if you don’t pledge allegiance to your country and it’s “beloved, supreme” leader in NK, bad things can happen.
and that’s NOT how we roll in the US. dig?
Nope, still not buying it.
Yes, bad things can happen, but not getting shot. I can see people getting fired. But I can also see a person getting fired from a smaller business in the US for refusing to salute the anthem. All those bigoted business owners who were so glad to let the world know they don’t serve gays ring a bell? So, you exaggerated what happens in other countries and downplayed what can happen in the US, therefore making your statement fairly useless and very biased. So, no dig.
actually, it sounds like you ARE buying it, as you agreed that it’s not a good idea (“bad things can happen”) to not stand for the national anthem in NK.
you are aware that Kim Jong Un KILLS his political opponents, right, including family members? and journalists who oppose him? as I said, my post my have exaggerated, but my point still stands. “bad things can happen”, as you said. and yes, a pastor in the US has called for anthem-sitters to be shot. won’t happen because HE says so, but there are folks out there, in the US, that feel that way.
and yes, I’m well aware of the anti-LGBTQ laws, and IN NO WAY did I downplay anything. please, don’t put words in my mouth or ascribe a position to me that I did not take. this is not about those draconian laws; this is about how, in THIS country, we are allowed to voice our dissent in ways that might make other people uncomfortable, but we are allowed to do so. in other countries, not everybody has that right to protest. and a person in a position of privilege should not be telling a person of an historically oppressed group how to protest or whether or not his protest is “right” or “appropriate”. that’s the only point I was making.
I don’t see how my statement is useless, or biased (still trying to figure that one out?) but I guess that’s one way for you to easily dismiss it without trying to understand it. whatever…peace.
Horrific??! Jesus lord hold me back.
You know what’s horrific? The specter of innocent people hanging from trees. That’s horrific. The rates at which our young black youth is incarcerated, that is horrific. Police brutality, that is horrific. Mindless patriotism with a complete lack of critical thinking is horrific. The fact that I live in a highly diverse area and yet the last five, yes FIVE traffic stops I have seen on the road have all been darker colored black men, that is horrific (and although it may sound anecdotal I started actually counting).
This bitch is the one who is horrific. To spend all this energy telling black people what to do and how to protest… What a goddam idiot.
Yup- well said.
Ok. Patricia Handled My Lightweight today! *closes door, exits thread before I have to use my lowest road for Water Tits and her precious special *ss opinions, over here*
No Matter Fact … I’m drop this here AGAIN today https://twitter.com/Rambeling/status/775163619348738048 *Im feeling so froggy today*
I read that yesterday, QQ, and a belated Thank you! I “knew” a lot of the history, but the refresher course was appalling. I sent it to a number of acquaintances who needed some enlightenment. We are all awed in disbelief at the linear path the institutionalized, PLANNED racism has taken. And, if dead minds walking like “water tits” (oh thank you, thank you, thank you!) get their way, the plan will proceed unabated. I will not ever stand for that song again. Even if systematic racism ended tomorrow, I now know of the original lyrics of this racist shite, so that’s that for me. That song needs to go. I’m with “America the Beautiful.” I’m an atheist, but can handle a God reference far better than a racist one.
Thanks for sharing that link. My heart starts pounding in my throat as I scroll through that. Someone should make every person who utters the words “slavery ended a long time ago get over it” memorize the entire chain of events described in your link.
A thousand thank yous for that link.
I despair.
ME TOO. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are precious.
Just curious when you say this, why Kate Upton’s freedom of speech should be any less allowed.
She was allowed. The government did not shut her up. She used her media platform to say what she wanted to say, and then she said it again. She benefited from the guarantee of the Constitution: freedom of expression (short of treason or incitement) without government interference.
But everyone — as in EVERYONE — is equally allowed to express their opinion about what she said.
And this community, however it developed, has a lot of folks who think that what she said was ignorant of American history, racial injustice, anthem etiquette, and the true meaning of patriotism.
Once and forevermore: freedom of expression does not mean you can say whatever you want without anyone else reacting to it. That’s called dialogue. We hope that in forums such as this that the dialogue can be constructive.
“I believe everyone should put their hands on their heart and be proud of our country”
The typically true sign of jingoistic moron who imposes tests of patriotism on others while proving him or herself clueless about the actual subject. Hand on heart during the anthem is NOT proper protocol or anthem etiquette unless you are wearing a military or law enforcement uniform with a hat that cannot be removed.
Kate has the right to express her views. And everyone else has the right to point out that her views are wrong, misguided, or plain stupid.
I strongly support the anthem protests of the NFL players and some others (the women’s soccer player). It is their right.
Exactly. People protest BECAUSE they love this country and want it to be better. If they didn’t care, they would do nothing and just be completely apathetic.
I don’t understand how people don’t see this. Also – they’re athletes playing a game for a living. It’s not like they’re elected officials. They’re entertainers. The national anthem being played before sporting events is completely bizarre to me, anyway.
Yeah, i never got that either. What does the anthem have to do with sports?
Having lived in the USA and Canada…I don’t like the anthem before sporting events, imagine if we played it before every movie and live show? Though I hear they used to play God Save the Queen before movies here. Still, O Canada is less loaded and more like hearing an old sentimental favourite.
Anthems played before sports competitions highlights their militaristic aspect. That the US anthem has become a flashpoint maybe underscores how people have come to conflate patriotism with militarism and nationalism.
@Snowflake
baffles me too why we need it at domestic games. Whoever wins, America still wins, right? I get playing it when USA plays other countries, but I guess if we went by that rule, football and baseball won’t get to showcase their patriotism.
Hear, hear Lilacflowers.
She’s confusing the national anthem, the pledge of allegiance and … thanksgiving? Or Veterans’ Day? All four?
She’s definitely confusing me.
HAHAHAHAHA!
These guys have embarked on a very ambitious crusade. It’s going to take a long time for systemic racism to be eradicated and for the conditions and opportunities for black Americans to be equivalent to that of white Americans. So they’re going to have to sit out anthems for years if not decades. If they ( and the rest of us) stop before their goals are realized it’s just going to seem like another ice bucket fad.
The ice bucket challenge was an entirely different thing that had to do with charity and did actually achieve its goal by increasing the amount of money and attention given to one of the more unpopular diseases exponentially.
Sometimes it would help to know why some things are ‘popular’ and how that popularity is being put to use.
But ALS hasn’t been cured yet, so why have people stopped calling on others to do the challenge?
@Soror Bro, actually, the challenge is still on-going. And the initial one raised over $200 million.
…wait, what?
Because 1. The organization that works towards the treatment of ALS has received decades worth of research money in the course of that single summer and 2. Because there are different forms of intervention attempts.
It can take millions of man hours and decades to come close to making advancements in science. It’s not about “Hey did we solve it yet??” It’s about repeated concerted effort, the money from that ice challenge has researchers working with new efforts and resources that they didn’t have before. The challenge was started by someone who’s mother has ALS and who was unhappy that her disease didn’t receive as much attention.
In spite of the initial bump donations that didn’t exist before the ice bucket challenge have continued. Did you think it would get solved in a year?
Soror Bro: FYI the ice bucket challenge hasn’t stopped. It’s annual now, in August. Perhaps you just don’t have a broad enough social circle to be in the loop? Anyway, I will happily nominate you!
Problem solved. Can we talk about BLM now?
And, good news, the first ALS challenge raised enough money to fund a breakthrough. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/jul/27/how-the-ice-bucket-challenge-led-to-an-als-research-breakthrough
Any protest movement if committed and well-thought-out is not a fad regardless of its duration.
You’ve missed my point, which was that these athletes need to keep boycotting the anthem until real change has occurred. I know fund raising for ALS continues but the ice bucket challenge isn’t as popular as it was. I hope the boycotting of the anthem doesn’t stop anytime soon. That was my point. We all want the same thing. It’s a shame some people can’t discuss this important issue in a respectful manner.
“We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.”
Oh. Dear. None so blind as those who won’t see. Be thankful, black people.
Anyway. This protest and the way it is spreading has actually been repeating with a good-length segment on BBC News here in the UK today. And it isn’t the kind of thing we would usually cover. Presidential elections? Yes. Mass shootings? Yes. But not a domestic protest at sporting events. So it is getting perceived as significant internationally. That’s a good thing, right?
I think so.
BBC has a charter responsibility to neutrality but they are as guilty of framing as any other news organisation and the framing here was certainly pro- the protest. I was pleased.
Definitely a good thing! I hope it continues to infinite conversation about this beautiful country we live in, instead of blind, misguided patriotism. And about tolerance.
Yeah, Kate, let’s be super thankful for the fact that we whites have never had to pay the financial or moral bill for our country’s blessings, which flow from the tears of enslaved Africans and their ancestors. This leaves us lots of pocket change for embroidered jackets and pants.
The recent part of the election of a black president is completely lost on her. Recent, as in, historically not possible or plausible. Like not happening for nigh 200 years of statehood, and really only plausible since the 1990s and the election of Bill “the first black president” Clinton. Like TWO SECONDS ago, and Kate’s here to tell you how thankful you should all be.
Nevermind the fact that there’s only been one non-Protestant white male president. Barely Catholics, no Jews, no Muslims, no women, no black or brown or Asian anything. But hey, SO MUCH OPPORTUNITY. WE LET ONE HALF BLACK MAN THROUGH.
Let him through and then tried to block or weaken every good thing he tried to do for this country, too.
And while a woman is running, she is running in the face of intolerable double standards as per polling too close with a completely unqualified opponent.
Recent history has not shown that anyone of any race or gender can become President. It’s very possible that Hillary will lose the election and the media coverage of her is insanely sexist and filled with double standards. We may very well elect a lunatic tv show star because he’s running against a woman.
We’ve had ONE non-white President and no women Presidents. The backlash to a black man being President has given us Trump and Trumpism, the latter of which regardless of who wins the election isn’t going anywhere.
Have we had a Latino President? Do you honestly believe a black WOMAN can be elected President? I can go on.
This woman is a moron.
Haha, I posted nearly the same thing word-for-word above. Logically, you’d think the track history of only white male Protestants would actually give credence to the idea that racism is institutionalized. But no. She sees the one exception made possible by SCOTUS rulings that one of the two political parties has fought tooth and nail as evidence that actually everything’s great and you’re just ungrateful.
And we posted at the same moment too! 🙂
Or a Jewish president? Or a Sikh president? Or an admitted atheist president? We have had one Catholic president, just one. And one Catholic vice president. Just one.
Kate doesn’t seem to have done well in history class.
Yep lilac. I said “I could go on”. I meant it.
Even here, where very few people give a toss about religion, Tony Blair waited until he wasn’t Prime Minister any more before converting to Catholicism.
@lilacflowers
who do you think has the least of a chance? 🙂 I kinda think it’s an atheist. I think Americans, due to having such a variety of denominations, are more “trained” to be respectful towards a different belief than towards a non-belief. So many honestly believe that atheists are immoral, communists, evil, etc. that I really think it can take another 200 for an atheist to have a chance.
The funny thing is, I would hardly call any of our politicians “Christians”, and I think there are many many atheists on the hill, but they all play the game of “God bless America”.
Well said, Tara.
She’s going to regret speaking up about this. She just doesn’t get it like so many other white privileged people. I hope she realizes someday that its HER opinions on the matter that are actually horrific.
I smell a future career as a Fox News correspondent.
Hehehe
Screen-shotting this comment so I can post it somewhere when it happens for real.
You know what, I’ve always found fascinating the way that American society is so patriotic on the border of obsession. The fact that nuanced critiques and peaceful protests are seen as “unpatriotic” by a good portion of people is mindbobbling. I consider myself patriotic but the idea of kids having to pledge to the flag everyday at school is so weird. Being patriotic also means wanting your country to do and be better for its people.
Totally agree. I have the feeling there is no room, not even for the fairest, slightest critique. I’m aware that we have a different history, but those who claim in Germany to be patriotic are mostly seen on the right wing.
What a sad state of things in GErmany, when only right wing people are supposed to be patriotic. Do you think some country in Africa or the UN will come to your resecue if you ever need help? Patriotism is not a negative thing….
nice try, anon. But now, only right wing people are not the only ones who are supposed to BE patriotic in Germany, they are the only ones who CLAIM to be patriotic. See the difference?
This American style of ultra patriotism is also heavily associated with right wing politics here in the UK – the further right you go on the political spectrum, the more excessive the claims of patriotism.
It’s creepy AF is what it is and the irony, that we are constantly going into other countries to bring “freedom: while constantly curtailing in our own country, is lost on the majority of Americans.
As ever, the person with the biggest..flag….is the most patriotic.
The person with the biggest … flag …, which they leave out at night without a light or leave hanging in the rain or snow or hang the wrong way or don’t take it down when it is torn or faded because …look! I have a big flag so I’m the most patriotic even though I have never bothered to learn how to handle the flag properly and I’m going to call you out for not wearing a flag pin that was made in China.
The only flag visible in my village is on my neighbour’s house. It’s the Cornish flag and, as a Cornish separatist (they do exist!), it is his one-man protest against his daughter, who moved from Cornwall to Devon. So when he got old and infirm, he had to move to Devon too, to be near her.
Sixer, I was in Cornwall last week for a wedding 🙂 My partner and I were hoping to meet a ‘real Cornish separatist’ and were beginning to give up hope until we met Chris the Taxi Driver. Not only were his political views fascinating, he had also seen the Beast of Bodmin, saved a ’10 day old lamb’ from its clutches and returned it to the farmer as well as knowing the ‘guy with the panthers’. Panther man had apparently set them free to avoid them being taken by the police. Chris the Taxi Driver swore that they were still living out in the Cornish wilds and had had cubs. Best part – when I exclaimed ‘oh, so the panthers were a boy and a girl?’ Chris replied ‘how the bloody hell am I supposed to know?’.
It was one of the best taxi rides I’ve ever had. Thank you, Cornwall.
HAHAHAHAHAHA.
There actually *was* an escaped lynx from Dartmoor Zoo rushing about in Cornwall but they caught it. I think all the other big cat “sightings” are urban legend though.
There are many Chris the Taxi Drivers, believe me!
There’s a separatist Cornish movement? How interesting. We don’t have that here, but we did have a few Czech people come and declare a piece of land ( around 7 square km) between Croatia and Serbia a new country. That actually happened a couple of times.
I don’t have a funny story about our flag, but I do have one about our anthem. when Croatia played England at Wembley in the qualifications for the Euro 2008, an English singer sang our anthem, and instead of singing “Mila kuda si planina” which roughly means “my dear you are so mountainous”, he sang “Mila kurac ti planina” which means “my dear, your penis is a mountain”. Our press had a field day with that.
Yep, Scottish, Welsh AND Cornish separatist movements here. The Cornish one isn’t that strong or anything but it’s associated with being Celtic rather than Anglo Saxon and the Cornish language.
I love that anthem story. How did I miss it?!
@grabbyhands
Same here, and I grew up in a Soviet Freaking Union! I honestly can remember maybe 2 occasions where I had to stand up for the national anthem in person. I did see it on TV, but mostly during large international events, where it makes sense to me.
I then lived in one of the former Soviet Republics, and when they introduced the whole pledge of allegiance/national anthem every day at school thing, there was a huge pushback, everyone mocked it mercilessly and it was seen as totalitarian oppression and the cult of personality.
Imagine my shock when I move to the “most democratic country in the world” and see the same kind of thing accepted by everyone for decades. I seriously struggle to see it as anything other than brainwashing.
Flag pins. Before 2008, I don’t think anyone gave a shit about flag pins but since it was used as a weapon against Barack Obama because he wasn’t wearing one. I guess they figured like vampires and the cross, if he put one on he would burst into flames because he was really a commie.
Now the debate stages, especially Repubs, are all about the flag pin.
The lead singer of The Dixie Chicks dared speak out about the war, this was years ago. She even got death threats because she did.
Yes I remember when their CDs were burned and when Bush senior made his statement about them.
I remember a news segment about the backlash the band faced and they interviewed one guy, a middle-aged white guy, who said something like “Freedom of speech is fine, but you don’t do it in public!” Ummm… WHAT?
Then, in 2008-10, he was the exact sort of guy that dressed up in a colonial costume, armed with guns screaming about “mah freedimz is beein’ tooken away!”
People who disagree with what CK is saying and doing believe, in varying degrees, that criticism of your country and exercising “freedom of speech” is reserved only for white people. Everyone else should sit down, shut up and know their place.
I posted the same thing yesterday. It’s just so bizarre to me.
I remember one time in The Voice Adam Levine said “I hate this country” in a joking manner and ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. Like, everyone was telling him to leave the country and resign all his constitutional rights because he wasn’t worth them.
“You should be proud to be American”? But you didn’t choose that? It’s not an achievement? If you’re proud of your country, go ahead, but imposing such things on others is pretty questionable. Especially since she’s not imposing them to be patriotic, but how to be.
Thanks – being proud to have had the random fate to be born in a particular place rings kind of empty, doesn’t it.
Yeah, it’s … interesting. And a little scary to be honest. Because it creates people like this little moron who accept the idea that as long as you follow the rules, you’re a patriot. Get your flag and your pin and stand up and put your hand where it belongs. That there is one way to show patriotism. Which is bs. And it’s a good way to shut down protest or any voice that won’t conform to this type of Disney patriotism.
It’s the “You’re just jealous” shutdown argument for political discussion.
But she isn’t even following the rules. The rules don’t require the average non-military, non-law enforcement person to put hand over heart during the anthem. She is requiring it.
Well, but everyone does it. By now, it has become the social norm.
@lilacflowers: Yes. But isn’t that what most Disney patriots demand? It is what’s done at sporting events and a friend told me they had to do it in school during the pledge of allegiance? It’s not the anthem but still. It’s the gesture most people around the world would associate with the anthem.
i was at a Karate demo for my awesome stepdaughter and we happened to get there just as the anthem was going, but people were still getting to their seats and all that. There was a white police officer very tensely and angrily pointing and telling people to place their hands and all that and it honestly freaked me out. so much anger at this school event in an area where kids and parents come from all backgrounds. it disgusted me.
Shame on him for using his authority to intimidate people. He had not right to tell people what to do or how to do it, as long as they were getting to their seats quietly.
Also, in Canada, we didn’t have the anthem for all school events. They played it in the AMs along with school announcements over the PA system, often using different versions, such as jazz. People had to stop and be quiet, but that was it. However, the anthem on Remembrance Day and during citizenship ceremonies – very moving.
When it’s all over the place and all the time, it loses meaning and impact.
She is making it worse. “The most special place”? Well that does not have to be something positive.
“How was your trip to the States?”
“Well… let me put it like this: it was surely special.”
“Recent history has shown that it is a place where anyone no matter what race or gender has the potential to become President of the United States. We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.” A black president and a female presidential candidate. One out of 44 is black, one out of how many is female? Yeah, anybody can do it.
The very fact you use the word “horrific” to describe someone daring to sit out or take a knee during the national anthem just puts into painful clarity how frigging out of touch you are, Kate.
Horrific is living in the US in 2016 and seeing how many people would like to see a return to a time when it was legal and celebrated to discriminate against well, pretty much everyone. Considering how many black men have been killed by police who have then walked away, it seems like we’re pretty close.
Horrific would be living in a country where NOT practicing obvious worship of the leader and the flag would get you a quick trip to prison and there are MANY places where this happens to this day.
In short, just stop. You made your knee jerk, flag waving point. Now go on with your rich, white girl privileged life and go pose for more pictures with Terry Richardson-we’re all waiting with baited breath for your treatise on feminism.
I love this whole post.
The special snowflake makes another word salad. Next.
If this is her version of horrific, she must live in ignorant bliss.
I think she doesn’t get that progress is not the same as success. If God willing Hillary wind, do we shut up about rape culture, equal pay, etc?
Hey Kate – if you’re so worried about what’s offensive to veterans – maybe you should take a look at how they’re treated in the MOST SPECIAL place in the world. Maybe you should start fighting for better treatment for those who have come home after fighting for your right to have such a far reaching opinion on something that doesn’t actually affect your life.
Take a look at the mental health support these brave people get post war, and then tell me what’s really offensive.
Excellent point.
Yes. But then we’d have to address who’s really disrepecting military veterans in this scenario, and more importantly how to fix it. And no one wants to do that.
I’m not going to pick apart this statement bc there are far more qualified people on here to do so. I will say, I’m embarrassed. when I read this, I know what her intentions are, but that’s exactly the point isn’t it? Her intentions are filled with ignorance and she hasn’t made any visible attempt be better.
She is a damn idiot. Someone on Twitter did point out that her uncle? is some type of politician and actually voted against a bill to help veterans, but yes kneeling for the anthem is totally insulting to the military. She is so dumb. Also there are so many stories of black high school and college athletes kneeling or sitting and they are being called names, threatened with game suspensions, and death. That is what these protests are about. They are literally threatening to murder young black kids because they are exercising their rights and trying to bring attention to the inequality they and their friends/family suffer.
I liked her better when her mouth was shut and she was the slightly chubby, sexy girl in a bikini.
I really wish she would just stick to smiling and nodding.
Kate said in the past that she suffered frostbite when she posed nude, but for a pair of boots and a scarf for Sports Illustrated (I’m still not sure what part of that constituted “swim suit”) but she never told us that her brain was the frostbitten part.
Why are people so ridiculous? This is rude of her and emblematic of the the problems in America.
Exactly. No one will listen
I’ll say the same thing I said yesterday. She keeps saying they should protest after the anthem. Well, I don’t know if this silly girl has ever seen a football game, but they have to go to work after the anthem. And I’m pretty sure lots of people would still have problems with them taking a knee on the field.
When dummies like this open their mouths (repeatedly, for some reason), it only points out how badly these protests are needed. There are people living in this country who think the most horrific thing ever is not standing for the national anthem, and can’t wrap their heads around the fact that black people and other minorities don’t feel safe around the police.
Seriously. The whole point of protest is to protest something, otherwise you are advocating. Both are essential.
” Recent history has shown that it is a place where anyone no matter what race or gender has the potential to become President of the United States. We live in the most special place in the world and should be thankful.”
Sorry to be crude but did this bitch really just try to claim ‘recent history has shown anyone can be President’?? As in just 8 YEARS AGO??
Yeah Kate, very recent history, like 8 YEARS AGO HISTORY. Meanwhile jusssst recent enough history has also shown that differences in skin tone can have you exiled into camps until the powers that be deign you to not be a threat, that people can set you on FIRE for daring to wear a piece of clothing they decide shouldn’t be allowed in ‘their’ America, that water fountains made of metal and screws can be the barrier between two races and that the only time a damn police officer will lose his job is if he happens to screw up and accidentally shoot a white person. Paid leave for everybody else! Whoo hoo!
People like her are the worst, because what little LITTLE she could be doing to try and help actually create balance and address injustice is completely lost in the void of her sheltered selfish brain thinking “We’re all equal and anyone can be President!”
I wonder if any of the “outraged” individuals have heard the third stanza or even know that it exists.
What an ass. NEXT.
jiggle girl should stick to jiggling
I think part of the problem is a lot of white people dont realize how much racism still exists. I was raised in mostly white small towns, where there was maybe one black family in the whole town. I never really had any contact with black people until i started dating my husband. That being said, if someone is trying to tell you something, you should listen. If you’re not a POC, you dont know what they go through. If you’re white, your experience is not everyone else’s experience.
Omg enough is enough w Kate. She is by far worse to me than say Miley Cyrus because she just seems so uneducated on things she openly brings up or discusses. Idk I found her whole speech up above very trump-esque like “be happy you get to live in this great country that keeps murdering black men and women-be grateful for this and that” so much disconnect
Everyone on here is screaming about white privilege, I don’t know what that is. I grew up in a trailer park in Flint, Michigan. I saw people of all races and colors get dragged away and beat up by cops. I’ve been left at the side of I-75, by myself at 3 o’clock in the morning putting my car back together because police took one look at the address on my drivers license and decided I must be moving meth. Put a gun to a girls head in my neighborhood? No one is getting the Chris Brown treatment. They aren’t waiting 9 hours for your lawyer to show up, they’re dragging you out immediately and you’re getting held without bail. You know who had it better than me? Colin Kaepernick and Kate Upton. When we start realizing that the main problem in this WORLD is WEALTH privilege, we will actually get somewhere. I busted my ass to get out of that trailer park, so please some call me a privileged Becky.
Maybe you could start with actually looking up what white Privelage actually refers to, might help your perspective a bit.
Also, here’s another one that’s so offended by the term ‘Becky’. I have to say comparatively I think white people got very lucky. Other races have been called horrific terms but kept it moving and even worked to better this country in spite of their treatment but never have I seen more recent tantrums than by whites over the most inoffensive of terms like Becky and Basic.
So comparatively, Becky isn’t as degrading a term as other words, so it’s okay to use it?
@The Eternal Side-Eye
I think your reasoning might have a flaw: yes, “white people” as a whole were rarely mocked, especially on an institutional level, in our history.
However, within the big group of “white people”, there are many sub-groups, and almost all of those had their own struggles with negative stereotypes: all Italians are mafiosi, all Jews are money launderers, all Russians are drunks, all French people are promiscuous, etc., etc. So, I can’t really agree with the statement that “other races have been called horrific terms”. So have many many “whites”. And for some, it was very much institutional, too.
Lyka- a lot of words come loaded with meaning, but it’s the way they are used. Jew for example is an okay word loaded with meaning, but in a negative context, it has a different meaning that did have institutional consequences. I’m not trying to imply Becky is a slur of that magnitude, just that it is a word being used now in a negative way. It’s not okay to use names to degrade others. it’s not horribly offensive, but it is name calling…and when has that ever worked for anyone or been productive? That’s my argument with Becky. Not the same as n***er AT ALL.
@Timbuktu
That’s a very good point, thank you for that. Subgroups within white culture have also been fraught with discrimination although it is more recently that individuals, if they choose, have been able to integrate completely into white culture without being treated as an other. Obviously this isn’t true in all regions of the world (some truly horrific things happening to Polish groups in Europe right now) an ability other groups depending on skin tone haven’t had. I think as immigration grew the amount of attacking within the category of ‘white’ also decreased but it’s not to say it isn’t still there.
@Lyka
Yes.
@Amber
I think your heart is in the right place so I really did want to approach this discussion as thoughtfully as possible. I think a lot of cultures speak in metaphors and short hand but I also think in minority cultures it becomes even more prevalent. For a very long time as Lyka said our words were policed and even in the context of ‘racial slur’ our term for whites refers to how they whipped us. Even in insulting we show our subjugation. Becky is not a term of endearment or a sweet nickname. It is a shorthand metaphor for the type of person I don’t particularly want to like or worry about. Use Kate Upton as the example. One of her family members ACTIVELY voted against things that would help the military and better our country. She isn’t responsible for her Uncle but I note that while he was doing that she wasn’t horrified at all. No, she became horrified when a young biracial man took to protesting in a way that shattered some perfect vision of what her America should be. He should not be ‘ALLOWED’ to do that. She is ‘HORRIFIED’ Not at the military denied resources and her own family’s role in that, not at the many examples of police brutality gone unchecked and unpunished, no, she’s unhappy that for 2 minutes at a sporting event someone did something she didn’t like because her idea of America is more akin to South Korea when it comes to showing devotion.
She is simple minded. She is selfish. She is within a comfortable bubble of whiteness and Americana and Privelage that she seems to have zero interest in exiting from. I could go on and once before I did. On this website, in this same comment section, I wrote a paragraph dissecting the meaning and usage of the term BECKY as it has existed for decades vs. new meanings that have entirely sprung up, many fake, to add to the outrage and shock factor. But instead of having to write or speak that dissertation everytime we want to address someone of a particular ignorant persuasion we instead simply call them ‘Becky’.
While I appreciate the discomfort with having a name thrown at you because it is not a compliment. I also am a little puzzled or peeved by the phobia surrounding the name suddenly. It exists for a reason and the reason is because people like Kate Upton have enough power and platform to decide the quiet protests of Colin are horrific and that he shouldn’t be allowed to do it. I’m sorry if someone has called you that and you felt disrespected, unfortunately there will always be people who insult us when we don’t deserve it.
That being said I think much of the current new slang though it’s in English doesn’t immediately translate well for people not in the culture. Even something like basic seems to be wrong when others try to define it and it makes me aware of those subtle differences that occur in language even between two English language terms. Sometimes you need a translator and if you don’t have one, sometimes it’s better not to become emotionally attached or effected to a word or phrase you’re not comfortable with.
@eternalsideeye
I understand a little more clearly why someone might feel it’s okay to use this word. I am sure at some point in my life I’ve used some equivalent of the word in another context because it’s easier than doing a character description of someone.
That said, there are people, even in this CB community of commenters that use the word the way someone might use a slur. Becky is losing the meaning which you’ve outlined when it gets put out there like that, which is why I’m cautious about it being thrown around in that same name-calling manner.
I guess that’s all I’m really trying to put out there. The original meaning of a word is irrelevant when it takes on certain contexts. You know when it feels wrong, you know when the intent is filled with ugly things. That’s my issue.
And full disclosure, I also understand what you have mentioned in other posts about people losing their minds over Becky and Basic. The words do not illicit such a strong reaction, especially how they were used originally. Bent out of shape for nothing. I agree. But recently, I am experiencing the word in a way flicks a nerve in a way that it did not when I originally heard the word Becky.
Can I ask…
… I see dudebro and fratboy used a lot hereabouts. Neither of which are terms we would use in the UK. But I’m pretty sure I get the tone and intent behind the usage.
So, Becky. On a scale of being mean or having offensive intent, where does Becky rank? Is it on a level of dismissiveness with dudebro and fratboy? Or is it a worse put down?
I’m just trying to place it. I can rank all the pejoratives from harmless to nasty to do not touch that word ever for Britisher English but even after all this Becky discussion, I still don’t quite get it.
@Sixer
It’s dismissive in the same vein as dudebro and fratboy.
Right. So if someone were to call me a Becky, I personally would probably be more offended at the “silly cow” aspect of it than the “white” aspect of it.
I get it now.
Thanks, Eternal.
1. White privilege is real.
2. Your harrowing childhood only proves that you’re a survivor, not that white supremacy hasn’t dictated the socio-political development of this country since its inception.
3. Wealth inequality is indeed an obscenity, but it doesn’t erase the legacy of white supremacy, the truth of white privilege, or the fact of systemic racism. Two things can be true at once, and repeated data gathering on the median income of white families vs the median income of non-white families proves that. Wealth inequality has widened along racial and ethnic lines in this country since the end of the Great Depression.
If you’re still arguing that white privilege isn’t real because you haven’t experienced it, you are NOT paying attention to the contours of the conversation.
I like your classy response!
@Lyka. I agree. White privilage does exist. I should have worded it better. I personally have not experienced it. What I have experienced is the systematic demarginalization of the “have nots” that has been going on since beginning of human history. I currently work for the United States government in a foreign country. I’m thankful everyday that I was able to work my way out of my situation. That ability was afforded to me because I grew up in a country where you aren’t doomed to a life of poverty if you put in the effort. That is my experience and the experience of a few people I grew up with. I’m not in anyway saying it’s the norm. What I am saying is that if you are poor, you don’t get equal treatment anywhere in this world.
White privilege does exist …….even if you don’t feel it has had an impact on your life,
And you are right …..wealth privilege exists as well and we can all be stereotyped on the basis of a characteristic — personal or geographic or whatever. Every single one of us can be and often are stereotyped by others on the basis of one or more things, And that is not a good thing, We are no longer individuals judged on our own merits. But boy are we judged! And how we judge others!
All humans are effed up creatures to some degree, We all believe we are special snowflakes who don’t fit a normative curve. We believe we have what we have because we are worthy and earned it. We believe others have what they have because they are just lucky, or white or male or straight or went to the right college or joined the right fraternity. OR OR OR. Or because of affirmative action. OR OR OR
But they didn’t earn it like we did. Or they don’t deserve it like we do,
And my pain and my circumstances are always worse than yours.
Sad what we’ve become.
Jessablessa – you are looking at it wrong. It is not a hierarchy. It is a Venn diagram. People can be simultaneously advantaged in one way and disadvantaged in another. I agree class (both economic and social) is an important element in intersectional inequality. But being white (race advantaged) and poor (class disadvantaged) in no way lessens the impact of being black or brown (race disadvantaged) even if you are wealthy (class advantaged).
I am British. I am well versed in the iniquities of class discrimination, believe me. But it doesn’t mean racism matters less.
@Jessa
I think another way of approaching it is thinking of it in terms of sexism:
Akin to a man saying that because all the women in his circle are successful, other women talking about sexism and patriarchy are wrong because such mechanisms have not impacted the women he knows.
I believe white privilege does exist and not always as some overt and ostentatious trump card in life, but in subtle and powerfully debilitating ways. It’s difficult not to see it in education, justice, social mobility and general societal structures in places like the US, Canada and the U.K. amongst others.
For a pop culture angle, take a look at the way Cam Newton was treated compared to say one of the Mannings (sorry I forgot which one); both arguably within the same financial league and in the same sport but perceptions of the same behaviour displayed in them treated vastly differently by the media and public. Or even how people are received and treated in stores and restaurants and the multiple chances and excuses afforded to some over others. Or how missing minorities are afforded less media attention etc.
Colin has it better than you in terms of money. But when a racist cop pulls him over, he’s still gonna be a n@gger to them. His money ain’t gonna save him then.
I thought protesting was a form of freedom. And no, Kate, your country does not treat everyone the same way. Nor is it the greatest place in the world. Perhaps your whiteness is blinding you.
You want the athletes to be FORCED to stand up? Not to use their right to protest? Then move to North Korea where Baby Dictator can kill you for falling asleep in a meeting.
Even after so many veterans came out to support this athlete… she uses THEIR sacrifice to suit her beliefs.
Very good point. I think a lot of people forgot that while they are screaming “respect our veterans” to highlight their own personal beliefs (while doing nothing to help veterans), that’s just as much of a sign of disrepect to veterans and their sacrifices. Actions speak louder than words.
Clueless celebrity is clueless.
She could be besties with my mom. My mom is so upset about these “privileged a hole” athletes sitting down or taking a knee during the anthem. She also believes everyone should speak English, that you should listen to a police officer no matter what, that black lives matter is a hate group, that store employees should say Merry Christmas, that we need to put God back in our country, that Hillary has Parkinson’s, that Hillary’s sever was hacked and the terrorists used her emails for the Benghazi attack, that Hillary has people killed annnnddd that Donald Trump would make a good president. Sorry, I know I rag on my mom all the time here but she is infuriating.
I still don’t understand why the flag and anthem represent the military. Yes, I know the Star Spangled Banner was written during the battle of Baltimore about the flag still standing during wartime. I still don’t see why the flag itself represents our military. It represents the country which the military is defending, but not the actual soldiers or branches.
One of my high school friends joined the Army after we graduated because she didn’t think college was for her. She was quiet and loved motorcross and paintball and Jimmy Buffet and 311. She died ten years ago in Afghanistan. Most of our classmates didn’t give a crap about her when she was alive, she was quiet and flew under the radar. Now they all, including the most popular king and queens, use her on social media every memorial day to remind all their social media friends that a high school classmate of theirs made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. That is how fake some of this patriotism is. Oh and of course my mom always name drops “my daughter’s childhood friend, who was killed in Afghanistan” for patriotic brownie points.
Shark Bait, yikes! However, I think it unnecessary to apologize for ragging on your mom. This is a pretty safe place to vent. We all get it. Sometimes our loved ones make it really hard to like them. Speaking of which, I owe my father a call…
“Horrific.” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
I truly resent how Americans make everything about the military, I feel like it’s just a shortcut to indignation: once you mention the military dying, you except to become untouchable, because now every attack on you is an attack on a military defender.
I kid you not, I had a very intelligent FB friend thank the military on July 4. Baffled me entirely.
The national anthem represents the country, not the military. I see absolutely 0 direct connections between the anthem and the military. The lyrics of the anthem are about independence, so there WAS no American military in the proper sense of the world (heck, there was no America) when the anthem was written, so how can it possibly represent American soldiers?
Thank you, Timbuktu. I was born here, but my family moved to Europe when I was a baby, and didn’t move back until I was just becoming an adult, so although technically I’m American, culturally I’m a mutt. I’ve been here for a couple of decades or so, and I still can’t grasp this military fetish. I’ve no idea.
I’m so glad to hear other people agree! Honestly, I feel like even my progressive liberal friends who are on the same page as me on most issues, balk at calling people out for using the military as a shield for their backwards views and their “in your face” patriotism.
Kate Uptown is white, pretty, overprivileged, undereducated embarrassment of a woman.
Some of us white privileged people do see the racism, the unfairness, the injustice, and the variance of educational opportunities. I definitely acknowledge the reasons for the anger and frustration currently felt by the Black community. Please don’t glomp us all into one stereotypical group. We don’t all think like this congressman’s niece with the junior mints.
“We live in the most special place in the world”
Maybe it’s because I grew up in Canada, so we are probably more oversaturated with America than other places, BUT…
it gets very tiresome to hear Americans like Kate Upton talk about how they are some super-special country and the only place with “freedom” It’s SO freaking ignorant and jingostic. To paraphrase Jeff Daniels in The Newsroom: “There’s two hundred-some-odd countries in the world and like, 180 of ’em have freedom”
(That’s not to say the USA isn’t a great place – it absolutely is. But this jingoistic crap is what makes people around the world roll their eyes at people like Kate Upton and their perceived Murica-specialness)
This^^
I’m american, i agree.
I don’t know… I mean, I went to Canada last summer. Felt very oppressed there. 🙂
Fellow Canadian. What I find odd is that, technically, the US isn’t as “free” as Canada (or many other nations) and she clearly has no clue as to this (or many things). The Charter, which is part of our Constitution, enshrines our protection from discrimination on many grounds not protected in the US (including sexual identity/orientation). So her comments display incredible ignorance, and the myopic view that feeds the stereotype of ‘Muricans.
Kate Upton,like Colin, can think, say, and do whatever she pleases. CK’s right as a citizen(and the others who join him in this protest) are guaranteed and protected under the constitution and laws of this country. I support any and all civil disobedience/protest at any time by any group of Americans. But (and yeah, there it is) 9/11 was different. It was the most horrific, non-discriminating act of violence against our country (and those from many other countries) who lost their lives , were gravely injured, or lost loved ones. Those planes (weapons) were not looking for color, gender, ethnicity, religious/non-religious affiliation or any specific demographic. They killed, maimed and traumatized with perfect equity. The countless first responders, doctors, nurses and regular citizens who ran to help in any way didn’t give a damn what color anyone was. I recall everyone covered in that poison ash, so much so that you couldn’t always tell what they looked like. 9/11 is the one day (and this is my opinion, offered respectfully) that maybe everyone could stand. Not for a 200 yr.old song, not for a flag..but for all those people who were victims-and heroes. We don’t know very many of their names or faces. But anyone over a certain age remembers the scenes of horror and pain. Please understand that I support the right to protest that an individual chooses ( as long as it is not violent). But I just hope that everyone sees that 9-11 discriminated against no one. For one day, for one time, every single one of us was equal-as a target. To my family of humans of all colors, I wish you peace and justice. To those who passed way, lost a loved one, or suffer grave injury that they carry to this day, you are NOT forgotten.
For me, your answer is precisely why I support protesting on 9-11, because it’s been used to stifle dissent at home and in our fear we allowed the Bush administration, and then the Obama administration, to get involved in a seemingly endless ware against … something.
Not that I would ever go to a dumb sports event, but if I did, I wouldn’t stand for any anthem that doesn’t represent me. What’s “horrifying” is the fact that we STILL do not have an ERA in the Constitution.
White privilege equals: I can wear nice clothes and no one questions now I got them. A Black friend of mine told me it drives her crazy the way people see her in a parking lot and automatically lock their car. White privilege is the small things that add up, that we don’t know about being WHITE. White privilege is worrying about your son getting a ticket for speeding or, at worst, getting arrested for having pot in the car – not worrying he’ll be shot because he was pulled over. The automatic assumption he won’t be killed by a cop, even if he asserts his rights. Until White people are willing to let this conversation happen, and let POC lead it, keep sitting, y’all. My white ass is sitting with you.
If she thinks that’s horrific, she should take a look at the American justice system.
Just think how people felt after 911. Imagine if an overpaid athlete decided to sit out the national anthem at a baseball game. That is not heroic. In some ways it is not the time or the place. I think that is her point.