Susan Sarandon has been having a hard time this election year. She was a die-hard Bernie Sanders supporter and when Hillary Clinton got the nomination, Susan morphed into a Bernie-or-Bust person. As in, even when Sanders endorsed HRC and encouraged all of his supporters to swing over to Clinton, Sarandon and a significant percentage of Sandernistas proudly declared that they would never, ever vote for HRC. They came to the DNC and booed and were “ridiculous,” in the words of Sarah Silverman. Sarandon became one of the most vocal Bernie-or-Busters, openly declaring that she thinks Donald Trump is a more suitable candidate than Hillary Clinton, because a Trump presidency would bring about the “revolution” faster, or something. She also believes that Hillary should have resigned from the nomination… because Russia hacked into the DNC email accounts, and something something Watergate.
So, it’s been a mess. Well, here’s some new information: Sarandon is no longer a Bernie-or-Buster. She has endorsed Jill Stein. This is Susan’s endorsement, as published on Stein’s website (I made a few minor edits for space):
I’ve been waiting for any indication that Hillary Clinton’s position on the issues that are most urgent to me, has changed. But …She does not support the $15 minimum wage. She shows no support for legalizing marijuana. She supports TPP. She has sold fracking and Monsanto. She supports offshore drilling. She has no position on the Dakota Access Pipeline. She opposes the labeling of GMOs. She opposes the breakup of big banks. She takes lobbyists’ money for campaigning. She opposes a binding climate treaty. She supports unconditional military aid to Israel.
I’m therefore very happy to endorse Jill Stein for the presidency because she does stand for everything I believe in. It’s clear a third party is necessary and viable at this time. And this is the first step in accomplishing this end.
Fear of Donald Trump is not enough for me to support Clinton, with her record of corruption. Now that Trump is self-destructing, I feel even those in swing states have the opportunity to vote their conscience.
People were upset with me because Viggo Mortensen’s Jill Stein endorsement bugged me too. For the record, I don’t feel like people/celebrities like Viggo and Susan Sarandon “owe” us an explanation about who they’re voting for and why. If you want to vote for Jill Stein, go ahead and God bless. That’s your choice. And it’s my choice to judge the sh-t out of you, just like I’m judging the sh-t out of Sarandon. This line particularly irritated me: “Now that Trump is self-destructing, I feel even those in swing states have the opportunity to vote their conscience.” Are you joking? Donald Trump is not “self-destructing” in the latest polls and even Nate Silver is freaking out a bit. And spare me your “vote of conscience” bulls—t. My conscience won’t let me vote for a third party candidate – which is a de facto vote for Donald Trump – when the stakes of this election literally involves nuclear war. When the stakes are “mass deportation of millions of people” and the very real possibility that a baby-fisted orange fascist will become the leader of the free world. My vote for Hillary Clinton IS my vote of conscience.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I always loved Susan, but she’s being super dumb now supporting someone with no chance of winning and facing the danger of having Trump as president.
My thoughts exactly!
These people need to understand that each ‘thrown away’ vote, is potentially a vote towards Trump.
And the Trump supporters claim the same thing–a 3rd party vote is a vote for HRC.
Both sides can’t be right on this but both are indeed wrong.
A 3rd party vote is a vote for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson etc.
If HRC loses — it’s not because of someone voting 3rd party. It’s because SHE didn’t gather the needed votes. It’s on her. PERIOD.
and ditto trump.
I voted 3rd party yesterday. In a swing state (NC). Judge away. I don’t care if I’m judged. BUt I did eat raw onions to get the bad taste out of my mouth this election has wrought I considered all the issues and made my decision accordingly. No shame in that..
But there is shame in treating others poorly for simply having a difference of opinion.
I will be damn glad for this time next week.
^^ Dirty Martini- Preach. Vote for someone who can actually come up with some proper Policy rather than just name call opponents. I’m sorry but if in a debate all you can do is call out how bad your opponent is rather than counter argue with a better policy…? Trump may be a complete idiot, but lets face it Hillary is a trigger happy coffee boy for big banks and business. Neither give a crap about the average american- and why would they? they are both over privileged white career politicians both afforded every advantage life can throw at them.
People need to be taking to the streets to protest this complete sham of an election. 9% of american voted for either Hillary or Trump in the Primaries…….and in what kind of a democracy does 9% of the population get to decide the fate of the other 91%?
LOL.
This is not the first time that Susan has voted third party. I believe she did this when GW Bush ran also
I agree that we need a vibrant and electable third party. Right after this election, Susan should gather her rich friends and like-minded people and try to make that happen.
But right now, whining like a 4-year-old about your choice is selfish. She doesn’t see herself as part of the collective. Unfortunately, there are quite a few people like her.
Nia, “and in what kind of a democracy does 9% of the population get to decide the fate of the other 91%?”
It’s not that complicated. If you can’t bother to vote, you have no right to complain about who wins the election.
Voting for a candidate who openly questions childhood vaccines is unconscionable. Please, Susan, spare us your holier-than-thou BS.
I could see voting 3rd party if either of those candidates were worthy of a vote, but they are both so unqualified and uninformed on the issues. Their policy ideas are complete fantasy.
Nia, Clinton has put forward so many policy ideas. You comment about her only being able to name call makes me question how much research you have actually done into the specifics of the candidate’s positions.
@Nia,
-Hillary did a lot more than name-call her opponent. Have you even watched the debates?
-You say Hillary doesn’t give a crap about anything but big-business. But why then has she helped found the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, worked to expand the children’s health insurance program, tried to expand health care (despite being shit all over for it), spoke up for women time and again, worked to raise minimum wage and many more such things?
-And what Esmom says.
It seems that the ‘she’s just as bad’ crowd, often don’t do much more than repeat whatever negatives they’ve heard about her, then feel they sound smart by not being enthousiastic, and therefore never bother to look at all the positive things Hillary has done.
Hillary’s certainly nowhere near the ideal candidate, but she’s done good stuff for children, women, and families–I totally agree about that. And given that it’s either her or Trump, I don’t think any sane, reasonable person has much of a choice in this election.
Susan sounds kind of irresponsible and immature. I also think she’s kidding herself if she thinks the race is so clear cut that Trump doesn’t have a chance to win. Polls can and have been wrong before. When the shit hits the fan, you have to do what’s necessary. You don’t have the luxury of supposing that everything’s going to turn out okay, based on polling–not when so much is at stake.
ITA. A vote for Stein or the other fringe candidate is a vote for Trump as it is a vote that would otherwise have gone to Hillary Clinton. And I will deeply judge the hell out of Susan Sarandon for her holier-than-thou attitude because she insists on being so very public about it. Just vote and shut the hell up already. Her fame does not make her smarter than me or anyone else nor does it give her the right to basically tell us what to do. Her wealth and fame will likely insulate her from the worst fallout of a Trump presidency – but others including me are not so fortunate. The middle class, working class and the poorest will suffer. What does Ms. Sarandon have to say about that?
As a Bernie supporter and a person who believes Hillary is a crook, I will be voting for Hillary because the alternative is terrifying. Susan is an idiot.
+1
Same. Well I don’t think HRC is a “crook” but I certainly have my issues with her.
My BF voted Stein and is giving me so much sh*t because I’m voting HRC on Tuesday. He’s a really good guy but like the typical Bernie bro, he spends more time trashing HRC than Trump which drives me batsh*t. Just insane double standards that Trump is given a pass by men while HRC is mercilessly scrutinized.
I know it would make him SO happy if I voted Stein to help her get the 5% but I just cannot in good conscience do that. Maybe I’m being really unfair but I feel like he just doesn’t get it because he’s a man.
Not American/able to vote, but totally agree. LOVED Bernie, don’t like Hillary’s military eagerness, and her ties to Wall Street & shadiness are no secret, but she’s competent, clearly able to perform on the World stage, and experienced in Politics. She also delivered my favourite line of this campaign so far in the 3rd presidential debate – Donald Trump’s foundation “took money other people gave to his charity and then bought a six-foot-tall painting of himself. I mean, who does that?!” The delivery was dry and perfect and made me love her beyond my differences in opinion on certain things.
Perhaps Hillary is very shady and will do shady deals in Government. At least she speaks responsibly in public and and doesn’t contribute to the burgeoning acceptability of racism, misogny and mean-spirited rhetoric.
Not American either but yeah, I agree. Except where did this “Hillary is shady/a crook” narrative come from? She’s a politician. This is nothing new. Why is it such a thing this time around? I find it surprising that people vote for her so reluctantly because of this. So many keep saying “Well, I don’t like her but / Eh, she’s shady but I’ll still vote for her” and so on. … Um, yeah? Is that new in politics?
Anyway, Susan’s full of orange sh*t. The revolution??? STFU. Because a revolution is always so fun and nobody loses/gets hurt. And because it’s the wealthy white people who stay and are NEVER the first to leave the sinking ship. It bears repeating: STFU.
She sounds pretty smart. She’s voting on issues and HRC’s record. I don’t see why anyone should feel pressure to vote for anyone when they can literally enumerate several policies over which they disagree. If Trump wins, that is at the hands of those who voted for him, not those who didn’t.
Hello & hats off to you Kitten!
I get the vote who you want to vote for thing but I also get a democracy where you have to pick between the lesser of evils and think about the result of your vote- not just what you want. We live in a society and I want to vote for myself and my fellow Americans (looking at you other minorities). I think it is privileged to have Susan’s stance but I think it’s selfish too. What if Trump talked about having you shipped off?
Side note- I am pissed that a lot of people’s hate for HRC is embedded or fueled by the FBI probes into her emails and the past few years of this and now look what we learned….. But they are holding their stance that she deserved the probe and punishment. The FBI is not & was never unbiased so all that crap can be cleared off the table now imo. It’s all so tainted.
BabyJane, I get it, I really do. But that’s like helping the granny cross the street while someone gets beaten up nearby. No, you didn’t contribute but you definitely made the wrong choice here. She can vote her conscience and be proud that she stuck to her principles, only she knows her vote will be wasted. It’s either Clinton or Trump and anyone who doesn’t actively try to get one or the other elected (and by that I mean voting for one of the two), is ignoring reality and being selfish. Sometimes you have to eat sh*t to get things done and if that means voting Hillary, so be it. Because she can vote on the issues all she wants but if her candidate has no chance in hell, how does she think she’s helping anyone?
I don’t understand any of this. In a democracy you have ONE vote every few years. Why would you waste it???
As Susan acknowledged, “vote her conscience” is something she is only able to do because she is depending on other voters to do the right thing on her behalf and elect Hillary Clinton. When she points out Trump’s self destruction and the swing state polls, she is saying it’s ok for ME to be irresponsible with MY vote as long as other people are being responsible with theirs. I think it is an incredibly selfish and privileged position and it takes risks that are unnecessary.
Well, for me, wasting the vote would be spending it on someone who is undeserving. That’s the waste. You said you “get it,” then you say you “don’t understand.” I will not contribute to a Trump presidency, nor will I contribute to a Clinton presidency, and I’m okay with that. No one will coerce me into voting for someone I do not support.
All I can say is I voted in the primaries for Bernie. And last week I early voted for Hillary. Because Hillary is Bernie’s best bet for getting shit done. With Trump, Bernie’s agenda is flushed and we’ll all be speaking Russian by 2020.
“Because Hillary is Bernie’s best bet for getting shit done.”
Exactly. Paul Ryan said that if the GOP loses the Senate, Bernie becomes the chair of the Senate Budget Committee. This would be huge. Hillary signing bills, but Bernie and Warren crafting and vetting them.
BabyJane, I get wanting to stick to one’s principles. I get how hard it is to vote for someone you do not absolutely agree with or even disagree with on certain important issues, I have done it and didn’t feel great but there was no better alternative. I do not understand how that can lead someone to abandon all reason. Which is what she’s doing. She might as well not vote at all. Her arguments are those of a child. Her conscience apparently only applies to the voting booth and not what comes after, not to other people without her privilege. Good for her. Let’s see who runs first if Trump is elected. And don’t worry, Trump won’t coerce you to do anything. He’ll just f*ck you over. I’ll be over here on another continent telling you “I told you so.” I will not be gracious about it.
“Her conscience apparently only applies to the voting booth and not what comes after, not to other people without her privilege.”
Well said.
@Kitten, good for you for making your own decision.
I don’t know if it’s the case with your boyfriend, but I often get the sense that the people who are only focused on her negatives, are more occupied with trying to seem smart or savvy than with who would work towards their ideals.
Hillary has long advocated and helped improve children’s and women’s rights. I know quite a few men don’t give a damn about either, but if you do care, that should be a major plus. She’s also done things that men benefit from as well, like working to help people in the military get help after traumatic experiences, advocating the raise of minimum wage, fighting to make health care a right, not a privilege etc etc.
Example;
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/15/us/hillary-clinton-urges-attention-to-gulf-war-ailments.html
This is very good to hear. Respect tegteg.
The time to build any solid third party is not now.
I voted Perot when I was 18.
Listen to the people who voted Nader– they regret it .Im not sure if Bush jr. was more dangerous than Trump could be, but I don’t want to find out.
Please vote for the qualified candidate and then get going on change.
@littlemissnaughty,
I don’t know why the right hates her, but they’ve been hating on her for decades. When she talks about a vast right-wing conspiracy, she’s speaking the truth. A guy commits suicide and it’s her fault. Her husband cheats and it’s her fault. She didn’t want to take his name at first and she was vilified for it. If it had been me I’d be in an eternal ball, trying desperately to find my happy place. But Hillary picks herself up and keeps fighting.
As for Susan, I don’t care who she votes for. My issue with her is that she doesn’t seem to have done any research on the people she supports. They say they’ll stick it to the man and that’s all she needs to hear. I get the impression that if the Klan said the same thing, she’d gladly get measured for a white robe. She’s just a rich person who gets off on being alt, IMO.
As a Brazilian, I saw too many campaigns with defense “he/she is corrupt, but the others option is worse.” We reached the point of having a candidate in Sao Paulo with an unofficial slogan “Rouba, mas faz!” (“He steals, but does (good)!”)
The result? Election after election, the scandals only got worse and worse … In 1992, President Collor was impeached for receiving a car from a lobbyist … In 2016, the Labour Party was removed from Government for stealing about 2.5 billion dollars from the State Oil Company to finance campaigns … And our ex President Lula is being investigated in a scheme of pay-to-play camouflaged as speeches for construction companies in exchange for access and state contracts.
My advice, never accept corruption from your public servants … It is like a plague that spreads and kills the entire public system of a country.
I was really looking forward to “Feud”, but no chance I would ever watch anything this self-entitled ignorant idiot is a part of ever again. if the world wakes up on the morning of the 9th November and Trump is president, it’s on you and the likes of you, Sarandon.
Voting for Trump is against Life Itself; that is the chemicals, that seek to flourish. (Conscience, is something from IDEAS – heaven and hell – eg., bullies).
Ladies, if it is written on the mountains, it is life flourishing, ONLY – not superimposed rule-making…
Think, We Can Think!!!
I feel the same about that. So sad.
I don’t love HRC either mostly because her stances on race is problematic at best. But I’m still voting for her because trump will mean terrible things for minorities.
Voting with your conscious is ish white people can do because it’s not like a trump presidency will affect them like it will us.
Must be nice
Eh. I would argue that a Trump presidency would greatly affect women of all races.
Affect yes. But again not as much as minorities. Black women are the most unprotected group of people in this country. It’s not going to affect us all the same
@Nicole
I couldn’t agree with you more. As a middle class white woman, Trump would probably have a limited impact on my life. Assuming he doesn’t start a nuclear war, which is a big assumption. But he would have an impact on people of color, particularly women of color. I was always taught that you don’t vote for your own selfish interests, you vote for the countries interests. Our country is diverse and that diversity makes us awesome. The notion that people of color are the “other” and should be kicked out or discriminated against is disgusting.
Strong agree. Both in this and other ways, this endorsement expresses MAJOR unchecked privilege. SMH.
Same here Melly. It would barely affect me, but I vote for the greater good, not my own, narrow, self interests.
As it works now in America, there are only two realistic choices-HRC or dt. Hillary was not my first choice, but she is better than the alternative by entire galaxies.
I’m glad people get it. There’s nothing worse than having to explain to my white friends that no this election does NOT affect us the same. To even claim that is insulting. Luckily most of my friends are woke af
I get what you’re saying Nicole and I agree. I wasn’t saying it would affect us to the same degree, just making the point that any candidate vowing to repeal Roe V Wade and defund PP is bad for women, period.
That doesn’t change the fact that Sarandon’s choice is largely one based on privilege though.
A Trump presidency will kill the sick and elderly— of all races and ethnicities. Look at anyone already struggling on Social Security or Disability. I know too many seniors who are barely making it, now.
I’m beyond livid that no-one, other than a handful of publications, is delving into the Russia thing. Apparently, early African American voting is down 10% from the last election. This is big trouble for HRC. The media disgusts me. Is been complicit all along. My laundry-list of complaints for today.
Hoping against hope for a Trump bombshell. Anyone?
Right you are Kitten. He hates everyone, but women in particular. Nothing to him but arm candy. How will he determine the punishment for women who have had abortions I wonder. I told you about the nursing home clientele that I spend a lot of time with, they’ve seen the light. They are so afraid they will lose their health coverage. Trump doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the poor and elderly. We’re smart women Kitten, how did this happen.
@Melly, I definitely agree with Nicole: that black women will be most affected.
But I do think even white, middle-class women will be affected. There will be more restrictions on our reproductive rights. A vote for Trump, is a vote for sexual abuse being seen as something ‘not that bad, even the president seems to think it’s okay and funny’. Health insurance for women might go up and misogynists will find themselves even more strengthened in their views than they already are.
And do you think he’s going to advocate equal pay, maternity leave, protection against domestic abuse etc?
@Nicole, I totally agree with you. Must be nice to vote “your conscience” knowing that, unless Trump starts WWIII, his policies won’t affect you. I voted for Bernie in the primaries, but my brown p$ssy is voting for Hilary next week.
@Nicole, HRC has ridden in limousines for the past 30 years, you Should spend your time building you assets instead of standing in line to vote for her.
I know things aren’t equal or fair in this country for POC.
For me, economic ‘class’ is a large issue as well. The non-rich, the non-male, the non-white will all be hurt by Trump.
@LinaLamont,
I totally agree. The sad part is that his supporters all hate communism and ists, but where is their outrage that their boy is basically in bed with Putin? That this guy is okay with a foreign government attempting to influence our election should give EVERYONE pause. But he says what they’re thinking about minorities and women and he gets their vote. It’s mind-boggling.
Hillary’s not pro legalising pot? Really Susan? While I think it’s ridiculous that it’s not legalised for medical purposes, how on earth is that any sort of a priority in this election? I’m sure Susan and most of Hollywood will continue to get high regardless . There are far more important issues. Like keeping a vile ignoramus out of the White House.
I love myself some green good-good, but I’m trying to prevent an orange dictator from taking over my country! There are bigger issues at stake here!
That was one of almost a dozen issues, though… For you to identify one and claim it’s not good enough to vote upon makes you sound unreasonable, not her.
It was in a list of far, far more important things. And I can think of another 20 that are far more important. None of which will be in the slightest bit helped by voting for Stein. And certainly won’t be helped by Trump winning. I have in the past voted for a candidate that was not my first choice, in order to keep out a candidate who was far worse. In the real world compromises have to be made.
I lost all respect for Susan Sarandon during the Democratic National Convention when she sat making faces and when she said she might vote for Donald.
Can’t stand her anymore. She seemed vitriolic more than anything.
She also voted for Ralph Nader in 2000.
She never said she might vote for Trump.
Published on Mar 29, 2016
“Bernie Sanders supporter Susan Sarandon recently said on Chris Hayes’ MSNBC show that she may not vote for Hillary if she is the democratic nominee. In fact she said that she may vote for Trump instead.”
It’s on video from her own mouth.
Are Clinton people just going to pretend she didn’t play a role in the coup that took out Honduras’ democratic government? You know, the coup that illegally took out their president and had civilians beaten in the streets. The same coup that’s cost indigenous activists their lives, people like Berta Cáceres. But yeah, woohoo Hillary…feminism! I’m not voting for her. You all can pretend this is some historical moment for women but the reality is you’re just casting your vote for someone who kills poor people in other countries for corporate interests.
Fine, allow Donald Trump to win, then he can also kill poor people in our own country for corporate interests.
The USA has long been an imperialist economic power. Start working from the grassroots and build a viable progressive party. You have 4 years.
As President, Trump could launch nuclear missiles. You want that?
@ who are these people, so it’s better to kill people in other countries than here because…why? They’re worth less than us? Better them than us? What’s your reasoning behind better them than us?
Yes, Littlestar, the Clinton people would prefer you not bring up such unpleasantries.
Her supporters also conveniently forget that she voted for the illegal Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, and the destruction of beautiful Libya and Syria, for it would be very “uncomfortable” for them to tally the number of women and children killed.
But it is we in the Heartland who do the fighting.
Their men tried to protect them, but we or our proxies annihilated them.
Well Rose it’s not like Trump took a position against Iraq or any of the others. It’s also fairly relevant that 85-90% of America were behind the wars in Afghanistan & Iraq as well as the others so I’m not sure why Hillary should be held to a different standard. As a matter of fact I hear a lot less condemnation directed at Bush and Cheney for these wars than I do Hillary – odd no?
So now she’s responsible for a coup? Jeez. “Are Clinton people just going to pretend she didn’t play a role in the coup that took out Honduras’ democratic government?”
1000%
Your vote is ultimately your own, but in this case, a “conscience ” vote for a candidate that has no chance of winning is …unconscionable.
I agree with Susan 100%. Hillary is very dangerous and can lead us into WW3 going nuclear with Russia. She is a corrupt politician and should not be allowed to run for president. Didn’t she rig the primary? What about her emails and what about the WikiLeaks leaked stuff!! She is claiming to be a progressive and thinks that we have climate to take care of but is obviously for building that Dakota access pipeline. I understand that she has no choice when she is deep in the pockets of the big banks that have invested in the pipeline; fossil fuel industry too. She is owned by the corporate powers and she has to do what they want. Hillary=more war and killing of innocent babies, possible WW3 going nuclear, aggravation of the climate, more injustice, more corruption in the government and more power to the corporations, bigger divide between rich and poor, less democracy. Too many negatives!!! I am voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party because they stand for everything I believe in!
You don’t vote for candidates just because they are most likely to win!! When are you gonna get what you want if you keep voting for things that you don’t want? I would rather stay home than vote for Hillary because I don’t want her to be my president. It’s simple as that. So now you are telling me that I should vote for Hillary because she can win!!! She is not better than Trump. She maybe worse than he is!! At least he wants America to be in good relations with Russia. I like that much better than WW3, don’t you think? Also don’t worry about Hillary. Even if she does not win she’ll win because she’ll rig the election like she rigged the primary but this time it will be more sophisticated!! Go Green in 2016 for a real change!! Don’t waste your vote on the corrupt political parties that are throwing their people under the bus while serving the 1%.
Ugh. I’m so afraid of what the outcome could be on election day. Like a lot of people, I think we are sharing a bad guy feeling about Trump actually winning and the horror that would follow.
Yup. I just checked FiveThirtyEight and the front-page headline has my anxiety through the roof. I feel like someone is slowly twisting my insides into knots. Please, God, Jesus, Universe, Mother Nature, Father Time, Jah, Ganesh… please don’t let the unthinkable happen. I think I might barf.
It’s the same for me. I went on FiveThirtyEight last night to catch up and developed severe dread and anxiety. I had to take something to be able to sleep.
People need to move away from 538; that site is way too volatile. Sam Wang all the way http://election.princeton.edu
Also, other good news: so far, polling of early voters in Florida gives Hillary an 8 point lead in voting there so far. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/poll-florida-republicans-vote-for-hillary-clinton
I’m with you – just checked FiveThirtyEight and it’s showing both Florida and NC with slight Trump advantages….scaring the shit out of me.
I think a lot of us will be taking wednesday off. As long as trump loses, it will be my new favorite holiday. I will wear rainbows without orange! I will use proper grammar and not be mean to anyone! I won’t use the words ‘bigly’ or ‘yuge’ or ‘gina’ or ‘terrible/awful’
@Solo The world is afraid of Trump.
Putin isn’t.
Afraid? I doubt that, but he’s not predictable, and that might irritate people.
The morning after the Brexit vote I felt sick to my stomach. I feel just the same right now thinking about the possibility of Trump as US president. If he wins I might actually vomit; god knows how you Americans must be feeling.
We aren’t feeling great Jellybean. I’ve long since past the point of feeling nauseated by this election, now i’m just numb and cold. We’ve been dealing with this shit for 18 months and there is no end in sight. Trump and his followers aren’t going away after Nov 8.
@jellybean
Same. I have been constantly sick from June 24th, living in fear that I might be booted out or forcibly separated from my husband (I’m EU, he’s a Brit).
It doesn’t help we have a fascist government and one of those in power was saying yesterday that he would like to deport black Britons because white people are becoming a minority. I wanted to vomit.
I also hope that the majority of Americans will vote sensibly. I don’t think HRC is great but a Trump presidency would bear so many awful consequences that it would take a day to write them all.
If that happens we must make a pact to come back to this forum for virtual hugs.
Admittedly, I’m in a state of extreme panic right now.
I’ll need something stronger then a hug. But I like where your heart is at!
If it happens, I will need that so badly!
You can bet I’ll be here post election, maybe during too if Kaiser does an open post. I am panicking, I think, but I mostly feel oddly detached right now. I think I’m numb.
I’ll be here. I vote yes for an election night open post. I’m getting drunk as shit either way, but it would be nice to be able to drunk text you guys.
Yeah i’m down for getting drunk as shit and messaging you guys while in a state of panic. I might get weird. I’ll definitely get weird.
Congrats Susan for essentially voting for Trump. Thanks for seeing all the signs of facism and saying “my totally awesome protest vote of conscience is more important than saving the US from Trump.”
If you’re planning on voting for a third party this election, please don’t tell me about it. I will blow up with rage.
Exactly. She’s an idiot posing as a smart person.
A total and complete idiot. Jill Stein is not this perfect 3rd party candidate. She is a doctor who has hinted on multiple occasions that she is anti-vaxx. So in my book she can go f herself. Stein’s “foreign policy” is a joke and her ideas aren’t practical or viable. Stein has no business anywhere near the white house. I agree that we need to do more about climate change, but Jill Stein makes me want to yell at hippies.
No, most people don’t think of her as smart.
Susan is a wealthy white actress who won’t be affected by a Racist Trump society full of even more hate . she lives in a bubble.
She can go buy a home in another country or somewhere and live a good life even with the orange one as president. She just is weird. imo.
I don’t like her, stopped liking her when she said she might vote Trump.
She won’t suffer the consequences. I never knew she was so selfish till now.
Exactly. No matter what the result of this election, Susan will be fine. She voted for her own selfish reasons instead of the good of the country.
See my comment up-thread, Melly. I’m dating a third party voter and it’s super-frustrating. Last night I told him that he can keep his “wacky anti-vaxxer” and he got all butthurt saying that Stein deserves better than that label.
Kitten, you have more patience then I ever will. If my BF was planning on voting for Stein I’d boot his ass out the door. If Stein “deserves a better label” then maybe she shouldn’t have been so wishy-washy about her stance on vaccines. SHE’S A FREAKIN DOCTOR. **Suppresses rage** I watched the CNN town hall with her and her VP candidate and I tried my best to have an open mind about her views and policies. She lost me on so many different levels. She is a fine activist, but her policies are absolute garbage. I grew up on bases overseas and the idea that we would close them all and bring everyone back to the US is the dumbest idea. She has no concept of foreign policies, relations, treaties, or commitments. She would be as dangerous (possibly more dangerous) then Trump.
Melly-Are you an Army kid? So am I. Military families are usually portrayed as conservative. Not all of us are. Travelling and experiencing different cultures broadens you, imo.
@SusanneToo
My dad worked for “the state department” if you know what I mean. 😉
Most military brats I grew up with are liberals or at least lean left. Traveling is so freakin important. Learning how to be an ambassador for your country and how to respect other cultures makes you a better person and citizen. Most of my family is conservative, mostly fiscal conservatives. The conservative party has moved away from the conservatism my family generally agrees with though. They’ve lost their way with social issues. Even my grandpa, former Army General who is 85, thinks it’s crazy to discriminate against gay people and doesn’t understand why men are discussing women’s reproductive rights.
There are a few other military people around here..I believe greenieweenie was in the military as well and she has extremely liberal viewpoints.
@Melly-If Mass wasn’t expected to go to HRC by a landslide then it would be a deal-breaker for me. As it is, I can support his choice but it won’t stop me from arguing with him.
Exactly what you said about Stein: she should stick to activism because it’s what she does best and that’s fine. She is NOT qualified for POTUS.
RE: foreign policy. I feel like our country is full of insular people who don’t have any ability to view the US within a global context. We just cannot see past our own nose and it is infuriating to witness. The issue of “foreign affairs” seems to present itself as xenophobia and/or Islamophobia, “ISIS!”, and various incarnations of fear-based tactics that is largely based on “othering” with no actual solutions being offered.
It’s like everyone forgot about Brexit already. Sigh.
@Kitten
At least you have the privilege of forgetting about Brexit… us in UK won’t be able to for a few decades.
…let’s see if I can cheer you up… if Trump doesn’t start a nuclear war you might be able to get rid of him in 4 years…. Britons and UK residents will pay the price of Brexit for a generation if not two.
I really do get the third party concept. We need more than two choices here. It only invites polarized politics. We are less than a week out and now is not the time.
I’m all for a sanity-keeping open post…cocktails and green a flowin’, as long as everyone stays home!
ETA- staying home after voting!!!!
Hi. I no longer post comments on this site, but I’ve always enjoyed yours – and wanted to respond about why some of us (and perhaps even your boyfriend) are casting our vote for Jill Stein this time around.
It’s my sincere belief that both major political parties in this country are, in themselves, utterly corrupt – compromised to the bone; concerned mostly with furthering their own existence and power; and functionally, practically beyond any self-policing internal reform or redemption.
When Bernie Sanders chose to run as a Democrat, though, I understood his rationale – and thus, for the first time in my entire adult life, I miraculously got to vote for a viable presidential candidate with whose principles, morals, conduct, goals and policies I agreed 100%. No reservations. No “lesser of two evils.” No holding my nose.
The gratification I got from the above was not merely selfish, nor done for my sole benefit. It was, instead and truly, the soul-stirring knowledge that I was – even in my small, one-vote way – helping to deliver a politician to a position of power in which he’d have the real opportunity to actually keep and champion the best interests of all of us – and especially the underserved amongst us – in heart and mind and deed.
(Sorry. Didn’t mean to go on so, so I’ll shorten this up.)
In brief: my vote for Jill Stein (and her core beliefs) is the closest I can get to voting for the kind of sincere public servant who should have been the legitimate nominee; it is also a vote in favor of third party viability and voice and participation in our political process. I will no longer vote to support the Democratic party as is, nor support how it has revealed its own character and primary concerns during this election. I have nothing but disdain for Donald Trump, but I believe Hillary Clinton is proven as an inept global tactician and a knee-jerk response war monger who might even get us into more trouble than his overtly doofus, racist, sexist, domestic-focused self could. I will not vote for “the lesser of two evils” – mostly because that is still voting for a degree of evil.
I do not succumb to TrumpFear! because that is actually nothing new, and because it will merely be trotted out, yet again and with another fear candidate or issue, if successful… ad infinitum. I don’t actually believe there is much substantive difference between the real power players of our two current main parties.
I am not a millennial, a Bernie Bro, a comfy couch liberal or a spoiled brat who is just trying to make a point – and especially not at the expense of everyone, or anyone, or this country. In voting for a third party candidate with whom I agree about most important issues, I am not “throwing away my vote,” nor am I “casting a vote for Donald Trump.”
Rather, I believe with my head and heart that I am taking the long view here; that the vilest, basest, most self-serving practices of our two main parties should no longer be supported, and that they must change sooner than later (and that we are actually at the tipping point of inaction, irrelevance and inability of either to get anything done), and that we must all expand to include different voices and interests. I believe that none of this mess will get any better until we make that happen, and I believe I am being responsible for owning that hard-earned and hard-learned conviction – by putting my vote where my conscience is, and by acting on my deepest hopes and principles with the longterm benefits for far more than myself in mind.
Susan voted for Ralph Nader in 2000.
Duh, she’s just too weird for words sometime.
IDIOT. Jill Stein is not a viable candidate, and this is one less vote for Hillary – I mean, one MORE vote for the deranged orange ignoramus.
This is a perfect illustration of what I spoke the other day. People get so personal. Why can’t we debate the issues, instead of calling people names? That is what makes American politics so awful and intractable, so toxic.
Because our country’s very existence is on the line, Sasha. Sorry if that makes us more excitable than you think is appropriate.
“Because our country’s very existence is on the line, Sasha. ”
It is not really the case. I lived though the fall of USSR, I’ve seen plenty of turmoil. But insulting each other is never the answer, it only makes everyone unwilling to compromise, talk to each other and set in their positions.
@sasha. Bull. Our country’s very existence IS on the line, and folks who can’t see that are blind, and deserve every insult thrown at them. A president Trump will destroy us. Anyone okay with anything that gets him in office is an idiot, moron, sucker, racist, bigot, etc.
It’s past nice time. Nice means Trump wins. That means too many awful things for me to care about anyone’s feelings.
But Sasha are YOU debating the issues? Seems like you’re devoting a lot of time towards shaming people and not offering up a lot in terms of political commentary.
I mean, YES people are angry and it’s not unwarranted, not in this election with SO much on the line.
“But Sasha are YOU debating the issues? Seems like you’re devoting a lot of time towards shaming people and not offering up a lot in terms of political commentary.”
Sorry, why should I debate with people who attack me personally or call me a troll every time I say Hillary is corrupt? It seems it is not a debate you want but compliance. You don’t want to understand me, you want me to agree with you.
As for spending a lot of time, I think a posted a couple posts on a couple of threads yesterday. I don’t consider it ” a lot of time”. I know I am not going to convince anyone in anything, I am not even going to make anyone understand where I am coming from. And that is fine. But the vitriol, it bothers me.
Ok fair enough but I still have to ask: why come here? It just confuses me when people want to assert their opinion but don’t want to debate. It’s like you’re here to tell us we’re wrong and here’s why but when we present counterarguments, you take it personally.
I certainly don’t think you’re a troll and I absolutely respect a civilized debate. I don’t think people should resort to name-calling or rude commentary.
But I’m also not going to lecture people for passionately expressing themselves during a high-stakes election.
*shrugs*
Anyway, agree to disagree and handshake and all that.
Sasha – You keep referring to “corrupt Hillary” while barely mentioning trump. Could you please do a side by side enumeration of Hillary’s corruption and trump’s corruption? Thank you.
Sasha, please read this article.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/10/clinton_vs_trump_whose_crimes_are_worse.html
” You keep referring to “corrupt Hillary” while barely mentioning trump. Could you please do a side by side enumeration of Hillary’s corruption and trump’s corruption? ”
SusanneToo, I was purposely not replying to your posts because of your personal attacks. But I’ll make exception this one time.
I posted a link to the Guardian article yesterday exactly on this topic. It explains it much better than I could do in one paragraph. You may go back to the yesterday’s post and read it.
I don’t understand what I should say about Trump other than he is revolting? Did you see me arguing in his favor? Supporting Trump is different from saying I understand the desperation that pushes people to vote for Trump or any other populist candidates.
I ask you, however, on what grounds do you assume that everyone who criticizes Hillary is a Trump supporter? And what makes you feel it is OK to insult those people? You are wrong in my case, by the way.
@Sasha – no one attacked you or called you a troll. I called you out; that’s not an attack.
I think people should vote with their conscience – whether that means you choose a lesser evil or decide to preserve various principles you have is equally fine. I don’t really agree that principled voting decisions should judged. Disagreed with? Certainly. But not judged. I think that’s an important distinction.
Here is where I disagree with Sarandon: the law of politics says that the right fills a vacuum, not the left. So her basic thinking here is irretrievably flawed. She thinks there would be progressive revolution. I am sure there would be a populist authoritarian coup.
Not sure WHERE Sarandon is voting. If in New York or California, then by all means, she can vote for Mickey Mouse if that eases her conscience. Both those states will go heavily for Clinton so Sarandon’s vote comes off as a “vote of conscience” without inflicting harm on the rest of us. If she were in one of the swing states, then I would have some difficulty with her not caring about my continued access to health care, my future Social Security and Medicare benefits, and the sheer chaos that a bigot like Trump would inflict on this world but would still support her right to vote for whoever she wants. Jill Stein is a perfectly nice woman but not up to the task of running this country. She can’t even get elected to state-wide office here in Massachusetts and she has tried numerous times..
The interesting things for me, as a Brit, reading the comments here about the election have been getting an understanding of how important Supreme Court nominations are, and reading the various conversations about third party groundwork on the down ticket being more important than voting for POTUS if you want to challenge the current US system.
I probably have similar ideological differences with HRC as Sarandon does. But I would be voting HRC if I were in the US. And not reluctantly either. Similar reasoning to why I voted to Remain in our Brexit referendum, despite being quite Eurosceptic.
Exactly, LP. If she was in a swing-state I would be angry, but I don’t think she is so this just makes her someone who is voting for change (by her view).
Whatever. I think people should vote for the best candidate for the job. Personally, I’m not convinced that Stein is that person.
@Kitten, I’m not convinced Jill would even be the best candidate for mayor of Lexington (where she lives) and I’ve met her and think she’s a nice, competent person. HRC is the most qualified candidate ever. I don’t agree with her on some issues, but those are minor quibbles because I know how our government actually work, when it actually works, which it isn’t doing now.
@Sixer, the Supremes is a huge issue for me and they are not functioning at capacity right now because a bunch of Republicans have decided to collect salaries without doing their jobs. And they are threatening to continue this disgusting thievery if Clinton is elected. Many of us are analyzing our Constitution to figure out what recourse we have when Congress violates its constitutional duties, as Mitch McConnell’s Senate is doing now.
Kitten, it’s not just about Stein. I’m sure everyone who is voting for Stein knows she won’t win the election.
It’s about increasing the percentage of votes the Green Party will win to get federal funding. Third parties who get 5% or more of the national vote will receive millions in federal funding to build the party. For people who want change and a viable third party option in the future, voting for Stein could make a difference. Since Sarandon is voting in CA, Stein could plausibly win 5% of the vote and the state would still go to Clinton.
@Kibbles-I understand all of this and I mentioned the 5% in my original comment up-thread.
I disagree that she is taking a principled voting position. When she pointed to Trump’s self destruction and the swing state polls, she was saying that it’s ok for ME to vote irresponsibly because we can see that so many other people will be responsible and vote for Clinton. She is saying her 3rd party vote is acceptable because she can depend on others to do the right thing and save her from her own vote. I don’t find anything admirable about that. It isn’t based on policy.
Very few voters will ever have a candidate that lines up 100% with their views on all policies. Marijuana policy seems kind of petty as a top priority, especially in contrast with mass deportation, wide spread stop and frisk, a crack down on the free press, etc. which are all Trump policy positions.
Wow.
If I was Jill I’d be PISSED that was the endorsement. It’s all about Hillary! Jill isn’t even mentioned until the second paragraph!
Sounds to me Ms Susan-I-have such-privilege-I-don’t-need-to-think-about-anyone-but-my-own-self-righteous ass-Sarandon was just looking for another excuse to slam Hillary.
exactly
Sarandon is in the enviable position of not having to worry for herself or her family if Trump is elected. I agree with you, Kaiser, the idea of Trump being president is so horrifying to me, I would never vote 3rd party. I’m in NC and have already voted, which feels good.
This. I feel this way about almost all celebrity endorsements, though. None of them (including the candidates) have any idea what the life of the “regular person” is. They don’t have our hardships financially, legally, etc. And they seriously don’t give two figs about us after the election is over.
Going over the cliff, Louise…
If Trump wins, it will be because of people like her voting for someone who doesn’t have a chance, it’s basically a vote for him. Thanks Susan
All the problems the United States is facing and she put legalization of marijuana as second on her list. Really? Really? Yeah I’m in favour, but there are maybe one or two (or twenty) issues that I’d like to see get priority. That’s the second issue on her list?? Oh hey wealthy white priviledge! How are you this morning?!🙄
History has its eyes on you America. Don’t be known as the generation who allowed a racist, fascist, misogynist, tax-dodging moron to become the symbol of your nation.
Yes that got me too. I understand a lot of people need pot for pain and that the war on drugs is far from perfect but….what about food stamps, health care, reproductive rights, etc. it makes one wonder how much she and Bernie actually agreed and how much she ever understood his positions.
The marijuana referendum on the Mass ballot is a big one for me. The archdiocese already sank $850K towards trying to stop it from passing and I’m SO looking forward to YES-ing the hell out of it next Truesday.
But I could not agree with you more that it’s almost unimportant when compared to the other issues you mentioned. She really seems out-of-touch here.
I think that one is going to pass by a huge margin. I haven’t even seen any ads for or against. Although with the charter schools guy and the NH senate candidates broadcasting endlessly, there probably isn’t any available air time to purchase. And if the charter school guy put the money he is spending on ads into the public schools, we definitely wouldn’t need more charters.
You haven’t seen the commercial with the dramatic music warning abut high-potency marijuana and edibles that will surely end up in the mouths of our children? *eye roll*
Consider yourself lucky then. Every time it comes on I want to punch my screen.
Yeah pretty much everyone I know is voting NO NO YES YES on the MA ballot so I do suspect it will pass.
And I can’t wait to no longer see Kelly Ayotte’s smug face.
LOL Kitten – even *I* want to vote against charter schools in MA and i live in RI – we see those commercials all the time.
Fingers crossed on Q4 for you! I’m hoping if MA goes for it RI will be next.
These “conscience voters” are the anti-vaxxers of citizens: relying on the herd’s sane actions to protect them from disaster.
Excellent comment Melody!
Great comment.
Yes, perfect comment.
YES! I’m stealing this and using against the BF lol.
Nailed it.
This comment is so perfect!!! Well said, Melody! I am probably going to steal it as well!
I just borrowed this for my FB page. I hope you don’t mind. It’s perfect.
I am sure she comes not agree with all of Jill’s issues, like you don’t agree with all of HRC crookedness.
The ‘herd’ issue was one that I heard a lot of from anti vaxxers when I was making my own decisions for my babes. This was 10-12 years ago, and I wanted to at least do some research and talk to more than one doctor.
I ended up vaxxing kids, and have a ped who was open to the conversation.
This is a ludicrous platform for the presidency. Sure, a concern for me, and I resolved it, but sheesh. There are much bigger threats to children in this country.
It seems like Susan’s big concerns are environmental. That’s all well and good, and I agree there was not nearly enough discussion of that on the campaign trail this time, but if Trump is allowed to take power, GMO’s are going to be the least of our concerns.
Sometimes you have to do the difficult thing to get the right outcome. It’s a shame she doesn’t see that.
Seriously. I’d like to see the environment preserved but not at the cost of voting for a someone like Jill Stein when there is a strong possibility that Donald Trump could be elected. If he gets into office it’s going to make Brexit look like child’s play.
+1,000,000
Exactly. Don’t sacrifice good in the name of perfect.
I don’t think her concerns are environmental. Unless she’s super-stupid, she knows Jill Stein can’t win. She’s throwing a vote to Trump because in the back of her financial little mind, she knows her taxes won’t go up if he takes it.
What an idiot you are, Sarandon.
For f**k’s sake, can we just drop this nauseating, ridiculous pretense of a “revolution”????
The so called progressive, vote with your conscience movement can’t even be bothered to get out to vote unless it is a presidential election and half the time not even then. So much whining about how it’s haaard, I didn’t have a staaaaamp, there’s too many issuuuuues=any frigging lame excuse and people have used it to not participate in critical elections that have direct and immediate impact on their lives-including developing candidates that could later become viable third party candidates. But why bother unless you can be self righteous about it on Facebook and throw up a bunch of hashtags?? Revolution? This nation is way too lazy to have one.
Those people are going to get exactly the president they deserve. Unfortunately the rest of us who don’t deserve it are gong to be stuck with it too, and most of us will not be safe from the side effects of other people’s bull headed stupidity because we’re rich.
“Those people are going to get exactly the president they deserve.”
Truer words were never spoken. Now where is my ‘deplorables’ hat? Whichever way this election goes, I want one. 😀
This!
I get so frustrated at the lefties who use midterm elections to “send the message” that the Pres isn’t being “liberal enough.” Guess what? No one can decode that message. The message that’s received is: America is more conservative. Why? Because that’s who bothers to vote, so that’s who wins. We can’t keep staying hom or voting our conscience when the end result is always the same: loss!
This. I don’t think those people honestly care about their issues, but just try to seem edgy or smart.
Instead, they foolishly hand power to conservatives.
+ 1,000,000
The great Noam Chomsky, a sanders and now stein supporter he said that he, like any rational person should, would vote Hillary faced with the choice of her or trump, especially in swing states.
Wish all the sanders supporter would be as rational as he is.
Both candidates are old white people….lol.
Yes Nancy. But there is no sign that age has affected Clinton’s abilities. And one old white person is a vile bigot, and the other old white person isn’t. Old white people aren’t all the same, any more than young POC are.
Yes, Chomsky is demonstrating that the crux of politics is compromise. It’s the mechanics of how we manage living in groups. That said, whether change happens best working within or outside the system isn’t easily answered. I think in the case of this election, most progressive voters have made the compromise to work within a Clinton administration to press their agenda. And honestly, many of us (lesbian like myself, for instance), just can’t afford to let any vote go to Trump, as a win for him will release the hounds of hell on our communities.
This entire election cycle has been awful. I’M not going to stand around name calling and cutting people down because they’re not voting for who I’m voting for. All of you guys judging her and calling her names need to remember what democracy is and doing that makes you as bad as Trump.
I hear you, I truly do. This election has been brutal, and I’m exhausted too.
However, imo the time for friendly political discourse over a cup of coffee is long past. We’re staring down the face of a Donald Trump presidency right now. After everything this horrible, disgusting garbage bag of a human has said and done. To me, that’s just unacceptable, and any sane human would be doing anything in their power to stop it.
Co-sign.
Preach, Shamblinator.
And that justifies bad behavior toward others? Do you honestly think it opens dialogue or changes minds? Or even makes anyone better understood ?
Of course it doesn’t.
So why? What happened to “we go high?”
Exactly. I just said the same thing. Calling the citizens of your own country names is the road to nowhere. We have to respect the difference of opinions and each other. Shouting people down never solved anything, it only leaves problems to fester.
@Sasha
I disagree. If insulting people is not the way forward, I don’t see what good comes out of not calling them out for a fascist choice.
If you want to know what politeness leads to I advise you to spend a year in UK now. See how you’re treated as a Eastern European in UK…. if Remain side had discussed the possible issues of a Brexit before the referendum (they just sat on their ar**s without even campaigning much) we wouldn’t have far right government members who want to deport black Britons abroad or jail British dissenters.
“See how you’re treated as a Eastern European in UK”
I think I know, I am Russian, that is even lower on the totem pole in the UK than a Eastern European. I was mistreated and disrespected many times for being Russian, something I cannot change and didn’t chose.
“calling them out for a fascist choice.”
You have to explain to them, not insult them. Their choice comes from fear. We have it in the US as well. People on this thread speak of privilege. But many posters don’t see their own privilege, don’t understand the fear of being jobless or not being able to provide for your family. It is a visceral thing.
Many people in the US and UK are sliding further towards the poverty, and the governments do nothing to plan for it, to help them. Instead they are cutting the social services even further. Immigrants are a convenient target. But that is a symptom, not the root of the issue.
“You have to explain to them, not insult them. Their choice comes from fear. We have it in the US as well. ”
You don’t reason with xenophobic or fascist people, exactly because they live in fear and want to make others feel the same. It’s like a loop. It’s pointless. It has to be the government(s) to step in and stop it. Instead the British government it’s the one fuelling it and who fuelled it for twenty years.
And I’ve been jobless/poor until my adult life (to the point we ate for 2 weeks and the following 2 we were living off scraps or nothing) and I didn’t become xenophobic all out of a sudden.
So speaking to the xenophobes means nothing when the mob (as in Brexit or Trump case) finds an ally or more than one in the politicians, who exploit the fears of the mob.
We’re animals, whether we like it or not. Try to reason with a herd of bysons after a gunshot, same effect.
(ETA: I lived in many countries, including the US, and I’ve never been attacked before…. It’s here that I had problems and only since June 2016)
I don’t know that anyone here is as bad as Trump, just for disagreeing with Sarandon. But if you could provide more context for that statement, perhaps I could learn a thing or two!
I agree that the name calling of anyone not voting for Trump is uncalled for. Sarandon is voting in CA most likely. People in solidly blue states (CA, NY, HI, MA, etc) actually can vote their conscience and not suffer the consequences. The state will not go to Trump. Also, I realize that most here love Obama but other than his charisma his policies mirror that of a neoliberal corporatist. Clinton is a neoliberal too and you can feel good about your Clinton vote but trust a lot of people will die under her policies too. Some people would rather not have to choose between two mass murderers even if one kills slightly fewer people than the other.
@SunnyD i agree. fear mongering for Hilary applies the same methodology as fear mongering for Trump. that’s fascism. i am NOT saying, before people freak out, that a vote for Hilary is the same type of leadership that a Trump “presidency” would be. but Hilary supporters who deploy panic and fear are as oppositional to civil society and civil rights. people DO have the right to vote as their brain and soul dictates to THEM. we get away from that and Trump’s fear and hatred message has already won.
Actually, Susan, the first step in creating a viable third party is not casting a vote for a third party presidential candidate but in establishing a strong grassroots network for a third party by getting candidates elected to school committees, town counsels, municipal offices like mayor, and state legislatures. Then your candidates develop experience and move up the ranks to state-wide and congressional offices. But hey, keep fighting for legalization of pot because that is so important to you. It is slowly happening anyone because states are realizing that if they legalize it, they can tax it.
I wish I could borrow you, JWoolman, WATP and a few of the other commenters here to explain this to my dude. He already early-voted for Stein so it’s too late but I’m still unable to get through to him about why his choice was problematic from my viewpoint.
Oh well…
Kit, being nosey. Feel free to ignore if this is too personal. But is this a new dude or the same dude?
Pry away, mama! We’re all friends here.
Nope entirely new and much-improved dude.
I got me a nice country boy from Iowa. A lot younger (30) but I’m young at heart so ya know… 😉
Get your cougar on Kitten! Congrats on the the upgrade to country boy. =)
Exactly. Considering the green party has zero members in congress, any state houses, any governors, or any major cities-going from that to president is naive at best and dangerous at worst. Heck even Gary Johnson was governor of New Mexico…..oh wait he ran and won as a Republican? Yea. Okay then.
Jill Stein has never won a single election on the state level-she couldn’t even win being a town meeting representative in her county.
REAL change starts on the local level.
Yup. But that takes work and isn’t as sexy as running for president. The green party here is so high on it’s own supply that they think the best way in the door is a revolution. They need to grow up, start from the ground up, a build a movement, and gain experience.
I was trying to say that, but not as effectively. Thanks, yo.
She votes in California I’m assuming. I don’t know any poll that shows Trump having any chance whatsoever of taking California. So…
This is why we need to do away with this electoral college malarkey. It makes one feel that going to vote is futile, though I will still do it.
Agree. I’ve lived in the US for a long time and the electoral college still makes me angry every time it comes up. I will never accept it. It is wrong.
If we didn’t have the electoral college we wouldn’t have had Bush W as a president, for example. And likely no Iraq war.
I’ve kind of come around to the electoral college system. Your vote matters a lot on a precinct level and each precinct determines the states. Some precincts in past elections were won by 5 or less votes, So each vote really matters!
Go open another ping-pong bar, Susan Sarandon.
I can’t stand her anymore.
This makes me ill. She willing for a sexually assaulting fascist to take over the free world so she can publicly bathe in marijuana.
idiot
Whyyyyy-don’t people know this is bullshit?? Either use your influence for something practical or keep your conscience to yourself.
Put your pride away, Susan. Jeez.
Yes, I was waiting with baited breath to find out who Susan was voting for. Eye roll.
Can you imagine trump as president during the Cuban Missle Crisis, the Gary Powers incident, the Little Rock Nine, 9/11(now my building is taller).? Any other crisis we’ve faced? Just ponder that.
No. I can’t. Don’t make me think about that. I’m already scared.
She needs to watch Trevor Noah’s broadcast from Trump’s first term… Frighteningly realistic.
Hillary needs all the vote she can get, given the usual Republican vote rigging.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-carolina-naacp-voter-suppression_us_5817634fe4b064e1b4b385df
So sick of their gerrymandering.
OT but that pic of the people holding up signs is so powerful and moving.
Voter suppression makes me ill.
Instead of trying to suppress certain demographics, why not talk with them, listen to them, and try to better represent them to earn their votes? Instead, they just try to rig it and keep people from exercising their right to vote.
The NAACP has a Legal Defense Fund and contributions are tax deductible. It takes money to keep taking the bastards to court.
You can earmark for Voting Rights.
Hillary opposes $15 hr minimum wage? Had no idea. Hillary and I agree on something?!
Actually, that isn’t entirely accurate. She has advocated for a living wage for decades. IIRC, her backing is towards a living wage that varies by location –much like how the Dept of Defense figures BAQ rates for military. Or how the COLA is figured.
Sounds.. I don’t know… REASONABLE.
I have family that run a small business in economically depressed rural TN and they’d be unable to hire new employees at $15 an hour. I suspect most small businesses like that would just start paying people under the table if a federal level $15 minimum wage went into effect. Alternatively they’d cut employees and hours of operation (which could lead to them closing down unless they can find alternative ways to make money). Both actions would harm working people. Trust me, my family are not wealthy people living high on the hog. There are tons of small business people that barely make a profit.
Susan is a smug self-righteous privileged white woman that is completely clueless how many Americans live.
Hillary is a privileged wealthy white woman too but she seems very pragmatic and I think the fact her dad was a small business person has been a positive influence on her. I know it’s anathema to say it but I’m happy to vote for her. She’s made many mistakes but she’s damn smart, tough as nails, essentially good hearted and pragmatic.
Jill Stein is a vote of conscience? She’s not qualified to be POTUS.
I don’t think she’s qualified to be a doctor.
Nor is she qualified to be a folk singer…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTz8j0VirLE
(Alleged)Rapist in Chief
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/326057027/Amended-Complaint-Filed-9-30-2016#from_embed?platform=hootsuite
My country has been ruled by two major parties as well and for some time I thought my vote would be “wasted” if i gave it to a third party.
However, I’ve grown tired of the established political elites and wanted a change. So I started voting for third, fouth or even fifth option. Other people did the same and now the political outsiders have some say in political decision-making.
I have no regrets for my choices.
I think Susan S. should do whatever she thinks is right for these elections.
And we are free to disagree that her doing so is the best choice in this particular election!
I do believe the tea parties have had their say for some time now, so it’s not as if third parties in the US have no voice whatsoever.
It would be nice to have someone who had a modicum of respect for the presidency but we are free to disagree of course.
The Tea Party is NOT a third party. The Republican Party embraced the Tea Party and it embraced right back, folding itself into the GOP. Without the resources, money, and established networks of the GOP, few Tea party candidates would have been elected anywhere. A third party does not join with, take money from or use the resources from another party.
Thank you for this clarification !
That’s just really not the way our country is set up, however. Even the great Teddy Roosevelt couldn’t make a silk purse out of the sow’s ear that third parties are nationally. They’re spoilers here, the end.
Ugh, THIS AGAIN. Look, I don’t like HRC–but it’s not like I am going to marry her or she’s family I have to see on state appointed holiday occasions. My conscience isn’t gonna keep me warm during the nuclear winter that will occur if that giant prolapsed anus comes into office and blows us all into smithereens because someone pissed him off on Twitter. GTFOH with that sanctimonious BS…
Girl, YES.
This bullshit about not being sure about Hillary drives me crazy. GROW UP! This is real life. 99% of the time politics isn’t satisfying and change happens slowly. Hillary is far from perfect and she isn’t likable the way Obama is. So what! I don’t need my president to be likable, I need my president to get shit done. HRC didn’t get into politics to make friends, she got into politics to do work. Some people need to get off their high horse and embrace reality. Maybe show up for midterm elections too.
YES!! 100%
I like Hillary always did. Proud of her accomplishments.
Hillary always reminds me of the Rocky quote “It ain’t about how hard you hit; it’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward.”
Hill can get brutalized but she keeps getting back up (in a fresh pantsuit) and presents comprehensive policy plans. She literally never quits! Her tenacity, intelligence, and drive are inspirational, assuming you can see past the republican BS
#BadBitchMom #SuchANastyWoman
Ordinarily I would heartily endorse anyone voting for their preferred candidate, even knowing they won’t win. I voted Green (UK) in the last general election here, because I still felt unable to vote Labour, and I thought that even a couple of Green MPs might help push a more progressive agenda. I thought, every little bit helps.
I regret it now because it is obvious we are living in times that do not support conscience or progress or gradual improvement. We all seem to be sliding toward the right at increasing speed. These are times when the best we can hope is to halt the avalanche.
If Trump wins, it would be disastrous – not just because of what *he* might do, but because of how it would embolden every bigot in America. Every closet racist who held his tongue because of PC culture, every pig who wanted to slap a woman once but knew he’d be in trouble, every ass who made nasty comments to his buddies about gay guys, but didn’t scream abuse in the street – they won’t feel they have to hide it anymore.
We’ve seen such a huge increase in the UK since Brexit in racial abuse, graffiti, actual violence, even abuse toward people who were *sympathetic* toward refugees, and Brexit hasn’t even happened yet. In America, nobody, no LGBTQ person, no woman, no POC, no Muslim, will be able to feel safe from abuse – not that they currently are safe, but how much worse will it be with Trump setting the standard? It’s all good! The President did it, so why shouldn’t I? Who’s going to stop them? He’s being handed a mandate by people who LIKE that he spews this bile. What will life be life for anyone in America who isn’t a straight white cis male with a gun, if Trump wins? The day after the election, if he wins, someone will be lynched, I guarantee it.
So I can’t get behind Susan and her conscience vote. This is not a neutral choice right here. This is a vote whose impact will be felt immediately by the most vulnerable people in society. A vote for anyone but Hillary – whatever you may think of her – is a vote that gives tacit permission to every bigot in America: say what you want. Do what you want. Grab what you want. It’s all good.
Please, America…vote for HER.
Excellent comment.
Thanks Kitten (and Jayna, Lina and Tiffany) x
@Londerland, great post.
+1
The hatred that’s come to the surface in this election is sickening. That a Presidential candidate (and his surrogates and party) not only condones, but, promotes it is vile. So is the tacit complicity of others…Ryan, McConnell…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kkk-donald-trump_us_5818d0c8e4b064e1b4b50849?section=us_politics
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/suppress-black-vote-trump-campaign-230616
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sid-miller-twitter_us_58190a51e4b07c97c1c50fb6
Lina. Let’s not forget this gem
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/watch-trump-crowd-cheers-after-rally-speaker-calls-for-hillary-clinton-to-die-in-a-fiery-crash/
Or this jawdropper
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/10/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0
@SusanneToo
I said months ago, when the stories first came out, that the double standards (fueled by the media) were breathtaking… Trump was teasing (possibly, even committing) treason asking for Russia to hack us… Trump was asking citizens to assassinate a presidential candidate… inciting riots, obstruction of voters’ rights, promoting voter fraud… the list goes on.
The most truthful words out of trump’s mouth were that he could shoot somebody and not lose any votes. Says something about his supporters and those like Ryan who are just “going along.”
So well said! I wish this comment was closer to the top. People need to read it!
You don’t have to get behind her vote, It’s hers. And it’s as valid as yours.
You can disagree with her choice but it matters as much as her disagreement with yours.
It simply doesn matter how you feel about others votes. What does matter is how we treat those w disagree with politically.
Hopefully kindly
“You can disagree with her choice but it matters as much as her disagreement with yours.”
But that is the thing…Susan does NOT disagree with people voting for Clinton. In fact, she is actually counting on them voting for Clinton to save her from a Trump presidency. She cites the dismal state of Trump’s campaign and swing state polls to give her the freedom (privilege) to vote 3rd party. She counts on these voters to save her from actual consequences of not voting for one of the candidates who could actually win the presidency. There isn’t anything “kind” about using other people’s responsible vote to prop up your irresponsible vote. It is not “kind” to vote frivolously when the lives of others who are less fortunate are at risk.
@Dirty Martini – As I said, I’m from the UK, so I cannot vote in this election – I have no vote in this for Susan Sarandon to disagree with. And I don’t believe I’ve spoken unkindly of her. She is, of course, free to vote as she chooses, as are you.
But – this is simply an expression of my opinion – in this election, in the current insane political climate, I simply believe it is too dangerous to risk a Trump win by voting third party. Anyone who thinks their state is a safe Clinton win whether they vote for her or not? – don’t bet on it. We didn’t think the EU referendum would go the way it did. I hate both the major political parties here, but you better believe next time I’m voting for the lesser of two evils. The danger is too great not to.
In a few days we’ll all wake up and either Clinton or Trump will be president. I know which one I would prefer. I know which one I would fight like hell to prevent from happening, if I had that choice.
as I said….,the only thing that counts is our individual votes. Not our opinions of others votes. Our opinions of others votes simply are immaterial.
Wish and hope away for the outcome you desire. I can’t stand eithe trump or Clinton.
But it doesn’t matter how I feel or you feel……or how you feel about how I feel. And vice versa.
Vote your preference, your least objectionable, or even your conscience.
But be kind to each other in the process.
Dirty martini, you are so right about this!
Jill stein is a complete and utter moron who thinks she can magically erase all university students debt with the wave of her magic wand. Susan, take a rest. You’re drunk.
Ha!
Well, the Democrats and Republicans were successful in erasing billions in debt for their friends on Wall Street. The reason why the common man and woman keeps getting screwed over is because people like you think these things are impossible when the corrupt people in office spend billions on wars, tax breaks for the rich, and bailouts for corporations.
It’s not about erasing all debts with some magic, but about setting different priorities for governmental spending.
If trump wins, could he go to jail as a tax cheat?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/01/a-big-dirty-secret-from-donald-trumps-tax-returns-has-been-exposed/
I honestly couldn’t say which is worse, President Trump or President Pence.
Pence gets on my nerves “almost” as much as Trump does.
You don’t think forcing women to have funerals for miscarriages is kind? I don’t know why. /s
I know he has other despicable policies; this one just sticks in my craw!
I fear Pence is a true believer and trump just spews any old crap out of his mouth. Whatever will fire up his dumb sheeple.
Spirit Agnew did.
If Trump wins Ryan will ram through a mountain of horrific legislation that Trump will sign, then he’ll impeach him because Pence is an easier puppet
A vote that puts Trump into office is a vote that undos all that Obama has done. A vote that pumps Trump into office is a vote against so much of the ideology I hold dear as a Democrat and against the DNC Platform.
When you sit back and look at what the Republican Party stands for, how can you not do everything to fight letting their horrific candidate win the election, a candidate who actually terrifies me?
And let’s not forget the Supreme Court.
A vote that puts Trump in office is a vote against the Constitution of the United States of America.
A Vote for Trump is a for Racism. IMO
I hate how he says such racist things and people try to excuse it and say he’s not.
He is promoting racism.
And Stein is completely unqualified to be president of anything.
At least her vote cannot affect the outcome, but her white privilege is showing and her lack of concern for those who would truly suffer under a Trump Presidency is as astounding as it is disappointing.
However, the rest of us are banding together for an historic election, a woman President of the United States. For all of us, this ceiling needs to be smashed along with all of patriarchy!
Have never been a Susan Sarandon fan and am completely over her superiority complex w/ this election.
Exactly. That’s such a self indulgent move, to believe you, alone, are that that important that you would risk Trump being president just to make a personal point. She has always been a bit ridiculous.
This has made me more angry than it should. But while I don’t disagree with making marijuana legal, it for sure isn’t 2nd on my list this election. FFS! Does she know what’s at stake with the supreme court? I hope when women are dying from illegal abortions, immigrant families are being torn apart and black men can’t cross the street without being stopped by police, she can still smugly look in the mirror and be happy with her “vote of conscience”.
As I said above – doesn’t affect her in the least.
Maybe she thinks she’ll be legally stoned, and won’t notice..if she were truly a Bernie supporter she should listen to his argument on why voting for HRC is so important. Some people just want to play ‘outsider’, never part of the ‘establishment’, but we all have to live in the real world and your vote is not just about you.
Spot on, Louisa. What Trump represents is deplorable. No pun intended.
Ever since the primaries I’ve been saying I was going to vote third party. I can’t stand Trump or Hillary. I really don’t want either of them in office, but as it’s getting down to it, I begrudgingly am going to vote for Clinton. I live in Florida and I can’t believe how close the race has become. I don’t want to vote for her, but Trump as president terrifies me. I thought this could be time for a revolution, but it’s not. The risk is just too great now. That man can not become president. I hate this election so much. The future is looking scary for America and I’m terrified for my children, no matter who wins this election. We are facing serious issues and I wish everyone could come together to try to work on them. I feel so defeated.
I hate to put you on the spot but can I ask you what your greatest fear would be if HRC becomes president?
What are your concerns?
My major concern with her is that she is bought and paid for, like every other politician and that she won’t really change anything. Wall Street, big banks, The pharmaceutical companies are still going to run crazy. I just want to see the corruption out of government and I see her as part of that corruption. That’s not enough for me not to vote for her now though. My really big concern for our country is that I have a horrible feeling that we’re heading for war and to me the future seems dim. I don’t think that has anything to do with Hillary, but I just have this feeling that something horrible is coming no matter who wins.
Thanks for the reply and I understand completely. The Wall St stuff was one of the main reasons why I voted Sanders in the primary and it’s still a concern for me.
It’s so hard to not have a sinking feeling with all the fear and negativity surrounding this election. Personally, I’ve found a lot of my concerns eased by researching predictions by both partisan and nonpartisan experts in terms of how a potential win by either candidate will affect our country.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by what people have to say about HRC so it’s definitely made me more secure in my choice.
I’m sorry to jump in late…just remember folks that Hillary Clinton’s voting record in the Senate was more than 90% in accordance with that of Bernie Sanders.
Hillary has done lots of good things for vulnerable people.
She’s also advocating raising the minimum wage. I hope she succeeds as president.
One of the smartest things Trump and all have done, is to only ever discuss whether or not she did something bad, and not about all the improvements she has helped make in people’s lives.
My major fear is that we just get 8 more years of the status quo, 1 step forwards 2 steps back, with a standoff with Iran thrown in for kicks (and kickbacks).
I also believe she showed her true beliefs re: mass incarceration and the racism that goes a long with it a long time ago, and I worry that at best nothing will be done to fix the current situation, and at worst it will become even more horrendous. I still can’t believe someone who once labelled young black men super-predators is the choice of the left in the face of BLM.
I worry about abortion. She’s promised to fight efforts to roll-back funding, but given that’s already been happening for a long time that’s a really mild stance for a pro-choicer and feminist, not to mention all the places there’s never been easy or affordable access to abortion. I want someone who’ll really push for increased funding and increased access in rural and/or poor areas. I’m also very worried about international aid packages increasingly being reliant on no funds going to sources that may provide abortions.
I’m worried she’ll have the same issues Obama did. The Republicans are obstructive and unwilling to negotiate, and Obama and Clinton are centrists. They start negotiating very slightly left from the middle, and that means they have very little room to move before they end up on the right. I’m worried this will mean we’ll have 8 more years with little to no improvement on the healthcare, education and immigration front.
I’m also extremely worried about how close this election is. Earlier this year the prediction was that if Trump was the candidate he would be lucky to ever secure 25% of the vote. Now it’s a tight race, even as many Republicans have woken up and walked away from him. This should have been an extremely decisive win for any Democrat, an insane record breaker, but it’s not going to be because so many people just do not want to vote for Hillary. Even many of her supporters are ambivalent about her. Her whole campaign has basically come down to ‘there’s much worse options’. It’s a lousy call to action, and I worry about a President who can’t even get people inspired during the pumping up, telling half-truths and shaking hands bit.
On a less important by personally frustrating level, I hate that Bill will get to be the first First Man (Gentleman?). He’s a vile sleaze who’s just as friendly with Jeffrey Epstein as Trump, and I hate that he gets this added to his legacy. 8 more years of brushing all his garbage under the carpet.
ScrewStewrat (dyslexic NASCAR? I😉)
Anyway, can I just say “thank you.”.
From the bottom of my heart, and with all the love in the world.
I feel you have looked at the facts and are, against what you originally thought could make changes, truly voting your conscience.
And I cannot tell you enough how much I appreciate that.
I really hope we, as a nation, are able to have those conversations under an inaugurated President Clinton. That Bernie has succeeded in forcing the Democrats to face their responsibilities to the left, and that he is also in a powerful position.
But in any case:
Bless you.
Thank you!! That is the nicest comment I’ve seen since this crazy election started. I still wish that most people would vote third party so democrats and republicans would be forced to actually change, but I know it’s just not going to happen, at least not with this election. With the race becoming so close and my living in a swing state, I just can’t make the protest vote I want to. I want no feeling of responsibility if Trump wins. My daughter is only 3 and may have autism or something on the spectrum (we’re in the process of getting her tested, but with insurance it has been hell). I don’t want her living in a future influenced by Trump. Just his running has already exposed the ugly underbelly of our country. I thought we had made so much more progress when it came to racism, sexism, etc. I know things aren’t perfect, but I didn’t think it was this bad. I feel like I was living in a jaded bubble that has been popped. My daughter has a hard time understanding things so she mimics peoples behavior, I don’t want all of this hate to become normal and her be influenced by it. She’s so sweet and I fear for her future. Thanks again for your comment, it has made my night =)
Ps- I’ve never liked Tony Stewart, but after he crushed my dreams of seeing Edwards win the championship my aunt dubbed him Tony Stewrat and that will forever be his name to me lol
Thank YOU for being the person you are! Your daughter is a very lucky girl–she has you!
Of course, she won’t suffer during a Trump presidency. She is rich. She can move wherever she pleases and money will protect her.
I could never vote for Stein because Stein has proven to be a moron. Between the pandering to antivaxxers and her complete lack of knowledge in international affairs, she is just a dud.
Wow. A celebrity gossip blogger telling me and Susan that our desire to vote our politics is bullshit. I live in a decidedly democratic city and Hillary will win the popular vote. By my voting a 3rd party candidate I am not voting for Trump. I believe if more people voted their politic rather than the two parties, we wouldn’t be in this mess with Clinton and Trump to begin with. Stick to commenting on fashion and gossip and leave the politics to the big kids.
You honestly agree with Stein’s policies? You think that vaccines could possibly cause autism? Do you think we should close all military bases & embassies around the world?
That’s crazy pants to me, and that’s not even all of her weird and dangerous ideas. I respect her as an activist, but I don’t think you could make a strong case for her being a good president.
You should vote your politics, but you also need to play with the hand you’re dealt. If you really want a strong 3rd party, it needs to start from the ground up. Not just running for the white house to get attention. Run for congress, senate, governor. Get some legislative experience.
The level of education of both the republican base and the extreme left (conscience?) is at a shocking and equal low.
Oooooh, so mature.
How about you actually work on some legitimate grassroots campaigning and maybe a get a viable candidate while you’re at it? Better luck next time, big kid.
“I live in a decidedly democratic city and Hillary will win the popular vote. By my voting a 3rd party candidate I am not voting for Trump”
So you are depending on other people to do the right thing for the country so you can feel self satisfied? I just don’t see how people’s conscience allows them to be frivolous on the backs of people who are most at risk.
Yup. These privileged “big kids” aren’t ready to be adults. They don’t understand that they get to feel self satisfied and “vote their conscience” because the rest of us are out here doing the right thing. But they can be smug and talk about how they want to stop the two party system without doing a damn thing. If Trump wins, they won’t see the error of their ways. They’ll just think that it proves their point about the two party system. High on their own supply of nonsense.
If you want to vote 3rd party, that’s your right. But stop acting like you’re changing things.
The stein and Gary voters are among the most smug and undereducated people I’ve come across…shocking.
@LoveIsBlynd
I haven’t met any undereducated supporters of the third parties, in my experience they tend to be well educated but micro focused on specific issues. Most of them don’t understand or know broader domestic policies or international policies. A lot of them are so very smug though. They get to relax during this election season because of people like me who will freak out and volunteer my (extremely limited) time to drive people to the polls and/or knock on doors. Just trying to stop the orange dictator on my spare time.
@HONEYB: Wow. Someone commenting on a celebrity gossip blogger telling said celebrity gossip blogger they should leave politics to the big kids.
Some third party voters give me the feeling that their main goal is to want to feel smarter than others and not the good of their country/helping reach their goals of issues like raising the minimum wage, no racism, no sexism etc.
All politicians are duplicitous, self-serving, egomaniacal, corrupt to a degree. You choose one that will benefit you, regardless. That’s reality. Sarandon is a privileged white woman who plays dress-up and make-believe for a living. She doesn’t understand reality. Trump is self-destructing?! Does this woman read? Does this woman think? Good for her that she’s comfortable in voting for what’s important to her and, not, the country as a whole. I don’t disagree with some of the issues she’s addressing, but, there’s no good that’s going to come from her “revolution”. You want a revolution? Go to Syria or Iraq.
This is not a game!
Bush/Cheney being elected was one of the worst things to ever happen to our country. His re-election devestated me. And I will never forget the Swift-boating done to Kerry by the Republicans. It was despicable. But I fell asleep to CNN, I think it was, saying Kerry won and woke up to Bush being reelected. I was so despondent. And look what Obama inherited after eight years of Bush/Cheney.
Trump in office can do so much damage. This is one of the most important elections of my lifetime, because of the thinskinned, erratic, bigoted, misogynistic lunatic who is the Republican nominee. He is UNFIT to be President of the United States. It’s unprecedented how even Republicans and conservative newspapers have come out against him because they realize the damage he could do to this country.
“Trump in office can do so much damage.”
It’s not just him. It’s the Republican party. He’s their standard-bearer.
All of the Republican candidates, this year, (with the possible exception of Bush…maybe, Christie) were extreme and dangerous.
So true, Jayna. I remember when Bush was reelected, and I was so stunned with my fellow citizens. It was an awful feeling, and I don’t want to go there again!
I think Susan believes her opinion is more important than it actually is. I’ve not once thought to myself, “Hmmm I want to vote but what would Susan do?”
🙂
But, it’s dismaying that others think like her.
When a company hires someone for a job, they look at experience and qualifications, not someone with ideas and no way to back them up. HRC has the experience and qualifications, and thus, is deserving of the position.
Anyone who thinks a politician, ANY POLITICIAN, is 100% non-“shady” is beyond naive.
Exactly this. I’m not voting for nobility, I’m voting for capability.
hillary Clinton has experience? are u kidding me. this is a woman who didn’t know that C stands for classified. 4 dead in bengahzi because of her. fbi are investigating her. mountain of evidence piled up against hillary Clinton but still her supporters don’t care. jill stein is more worried about a hillary Clinton presidency than a donald trump presidency.
celebitchy upload my comments and stop hiding the truth like Google and CNN.
“this is a woman who didn’t know that C stands for classified”
That’s because C doesn’t stand for classified. Classified materials aren’t designated as such by a “C”. There are headers and footers that note whether a message contains classified information, and NONE of the messages in question had these headers. It was sender error.
Boom. You know how I feel about your political commentary but I just have to tell you again: you’re one of the most knowledgeable commenters around here.
(and that’s saying a lot because we have plenty to talent in that arena)
Thank you very much, Kitten. I respect your brain so very much, so it means a lot to receive such kind words from you!
Wait, I thought everyone knew C is for Cookie. ???
I’m guessing you’ve never worked with classified information because you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not going to go point by point on why literally everything you wrote is a lie or very misleading, because I don’t think you have the interest or capacity to understand. Who cares if Jill Stein is more worried about Hillary? Jill Stein thinks vaccines might cause autism, she doesn’t exactly have a track record of good judgement.
Clinton and the administration requested money to beef up security at embassies. The House Republicans rejected that request & cut funding. Don’t let that burst your bubble though.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/22/1437642/-Not-Hillary-Benghazi-was-GOP-s-fault
For the folks who don’t want to click on the link:
“For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department’s Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration’s request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012….
[In 2011] Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans’ proposed cuts to her department would be “detrimental to America’s national security” — a charge Republicans rejected.
[GOP vice presidential nominee Paul] Ryan, [Rep. Darrell] Issa and other House Republicans voted for an amendment in 2009 to cut $1.2 billion from State operations, including funds for 300 more diplomatic security positions. Under Ryan’s budget, non-defense discretionary spending, which includes State Department funding, would be slashed nearly 20 percent in 2014, which would translate to more than $400 million in additional cuts to embassy security.
@SusanneToo and @Tiffany
People like you are the reason i like the site so much. Intelligence backed up with facts.
:: blushes::
Aw, thank you, Melly!
Thanks, Melly and thanks, Tiffany for making it easier.
What Melly said.
So, how many investigations did we get into the deaths of dozens of State Department and other embassy staff killed under Bush II? Zero. I guess we got one investigation into what caused the death of 3000+ Americans, so that’s something, but we never got find out why Bush let an airplane full of Saudi VIPs out of the country before the airspace was closed.
How many investigations did we get into what was in his emails – 22 million of which, on private RNC servers, went poof.
And you do know that Trump thought the C stood for “confidential,” right?
Keep going, prince.
trump and his emails:
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/11/11/donald-trump-companies-destroyed-emails-documents-515120.html
Hey Prince, are you one of those guys who only show up on this site to push a conservative agenda during election time?
Actually, in line by line designations of differing level material in actual classified documents (so designated by having their classification level–SECRET, TOP SECRET, TS-SCI, whatever–clearly marked at the top and the bottom of the document), anyway C stands for Confidential in such cases.
It is technically meaningless when attached in such a matter to random material that may have been taken from other documents and poorly copypasta’d.
Betsy– as I understand it, Trump had no idea that C did in fact stand for Confidential WHEN USED in the appropriate manner.
the idea of hillary Clinton becoming president is horrifying to me and the rest of the world. claims she supports women and lgbt rights but she collects money from countries that push gays off building snd oppress women.
Yeah, not like Trump who takes money from…
…oh yeah, he kinda refused to disclose that information, didn’t he?
I’m fine with her taking that money and putting it to better use than they will. She’s too much of a smart survivor to go against the will of her voting base. You really think she’d be worse than Trump on civil rights? At the most, she’d concede on some oil issues.
Give things more thought than just parroting a Trump line.
You know that countries in the Middle East are philanthropic on a regular basis, right?
For example, during the same time period Saudi Arabia gave $10M to the Clinton Foundation, they also gave $62M to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS. The countries in question (Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates) that gave a grand total of $40M to the Clinton Foundation gave more than $5 BILLION to humanitarian causes and charities.
Just because you have serious disagreements with others doesn’t mean that you will be on opposite sides of every issue. Where there is agreement, work towards the common good.
I don’t think you know anyone in any other part of the world. The rest of the world is very nervous about our election because of the possibility of Trump. I’m guessing you’re not very in-tune with international politics. But keep trolling, it makes you look SO cool.
@Prince, I can understand why Putin might fear a Clinton presidency but that fear would not extend to the rest of the world
The rest of the world wants Hillary. A recent very comprehensive survey reported in the UK Independent newspaper, found that people in every country polled, with one exception, wanted Hillary to win. The one exception was….of course, Russia. I haven’t been able to provide the link but Trump is widely despised.
As referenced….
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-poll-international-countries-uk-hillary-clinton-rcp-us-presidential-live-election-a7367591.html
Some of Hillary’s points I don’t agree with at all (saying that the US should be a bigger influence in Europe – no thank you; the no-fly zone above Syria), but I still want her to win and most of my fellow (sane) Europeans agree with me.
“he collects money from Russia, which executes gays when it isn’t imprisoning them, or sending musicians who sing about women empowerment and lgbt rights to labour camps in Siberia.”
There, fixed it for you Prince!
Thank you Susan Sarandon for giving us your endorsement that literally no one cares about and is dumb to boot.
Just wanted to state that the issues Susan mentioned such as TPP, Monsanto, GMO labeling, breaking up big banks, etc., affects everybody, not just rich people. ( I guess one could argue that rich folks can afford all GMO-free organic food, but the fact is there has been cross-contamination of GMO seeds/pollen finding their way onto farms that want no part of it. That scares me for everyone’s sake.)
It’s true, GMOs affect everyone not just the rich. In particular, many who are in countries that I work in with extreme poverty could greatly benefit from genetically modified foods which address agricultural barriers to combating hunger. Similar to vaccination production, GMO processing should be regulated to minimize harms such as outcrossing and allergenic responses. But opposing them across the board is elitist, uninformed bullshit non-science.
Why is it “elitist bs”? Genetically modifying food NEEDS to be proven to be 100% safe to everybody, and that includes many, many years of studies and over several generations. Studies limited to just a few months or only a few years is not conclusive enough. How do we know that such things don’t end up changing our DNA? How do we know that such things don’t contribute to and/or exacerbate food allergies and celiac disease, etc.? There’s nothing un-scientific about demanding proof of safety first.
It sounds very noble to use these technologies to cure world hunger, but it could cause more damage than good. Personally, I suspect a lot of the world hunger problems involve corrupt governments and greedy people.
I didn’t sleep at all last night. Stayed up on twitter looking for comfort from complete strangers. Mad thoughts going thru my mind – is the US being taken over by Russia with the help of Trump and the FBI? If Trump wins will he start arresting reporters he hates? Will he shut down all news shows except FOX? Will he bomb the hell out of Denmark because someone tweeted something he didn’t like? Never thought I’d live to see our country come to this.
You know a US president can’t do anything too crazy. The US has a system of checks which won’t allow it.
Not true anymore. The Bush Administration expanded Executive powers to crazy levels (including getting into military conflict without congressional approval, etc.).
Donald Trump could order a nuclear strike. Commander in Chief means Commander in Chief.
The Supreme Court and Congress have no access to or authority over “The Football.”
How are those checks and balances working out for us when the Senate decided in February that it would no longer perform its job of reviewing Supreme Court nominees but would still collect salaries and benefits?
Trump gives me the distinct impression that he has never read the Constitution and is unfamiliar with the concept of checks and balances to presidential power. And on some issues, like discrimination against people with pre-existing medical conditions for health care access, a woman’s right to control her own body, anti-discrimination laws in the workplace, gay rights, true religious freedom and freedom from religion – Paul Ryan’s House will provide no check or balance
Excellent point @Tiffany Moreover Trump will have tremendous power in the area of foreign policy. Hell his undisciplined mouth going off and causing markets to crash, angering allies and foes, etc is reason enough to be afraid of him winning.
Frankly, I’m beginning to wonder if FBI agents have been compromised by the Russians.
Well, it’s out there that Comey very quickly squelched any questions the NYT had about Russia and Trump…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/1/1589659/-Someone-fed-the-NYT-information-to-quickly-kill-emerging-Trump-Russia-stories-was-it-Comey
Who knows.
How do you mean “FBI agents compromised by Russians” – the whole department, the directors, some agents? Then, are they bought, blackmailed, ideologically turned?
I found Comey’s move erroneous and dangerous, yet to jump to accusing the FBI of treason is crazy talk. It is flippant and useless, and, ironically, it’s a reverse mirror to Breibart cray cray world, minus the colorful language.
Excellent article.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2016/08/dont-throw-your-vote-away-on-jill-stein/
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/03/us/politics/obama-james-comey-fbi-hillary-clinton.html
WashPost..HuffPo.. others all reporting this.
Is this the “personal attack” you’re referring to? Can’t find anything else inflammatory. Sorrrrry. I’ve only responded to a few of your posts, but, never mind, we disagree, carry on, bye.
November 2, 2016 at 12:56 pm
” You keep referring to “corrupt Hillary” while barely mentioning trump. Could you please do a side by side enumeration of Hillary’s corruption and trump’s corruption? ”
SusanneToo, I was purposely not replying to your posts because of your personal attacks. But I’ll make exception this one time.
Sasha says:
October 31, 2016 at 3:40 pm
Anything more recent from her time as a senator or the secretary of state?
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SusanneToo says:
October 31, 2016 at 3:58 pm
Why don’t you do some research on the two candidates yourself? Information is out there.
@SusanneToo – just wanted to say thank you for the links you’ve been posting here and elsewhere. Some great (albeit some deeply depressing and disturbing) reads that I’d never have come across otherwise. Much appreciated.
Thanks – forty years as a librarian – it’s still in my blood.
@SusanneToo
“Is this the “personal attack” you’re referring to?”
I don’t know what you’re referring to, but, I’ve never seen you attack anyone.
I am really not interested in this slugfest, I know I could go back through last 3 days and find the things you said, not just to me specifically, but to other people.
But here is one – I was talking about Hillary and you made it about me. You accused me of hating Hillary and being Donald Trump supporter. Neither of which are true.
Can you not talk about the people who are actually running for president instead of the posters themselves?
“SusanneToo says:
November 1, 2016 at 9:11 pm
“She’s arrogant.” She’s arrogant?? LMAO!! Have you listened to donald trump? You certainly have a hate on for Hillary. “
I’m such a b1tch. Me and Hillary. You ignore me, I’ll ignore you. All fine.
Don’t get too upset Sasha, SusanneToo is just such a nasty woman.
And I’ve got the t-shirt to prove it.😂😂😂
Sasha, I totally hear what you are saying and appreciate your posts.
Personally I think SuzanneToo has has an outstanding election campaign. I’d vote for her.
If her conscience vote allows Trump to win she gets zero and I mean zero right to complain when muslims are targeted, aliens deported, rich people pay lower taxes and we get nuked.
She’s not neither Muslim nor alien and she’s rich — so why would she complain?
If she’s nuked, no complaints there either.
She has complained about the treatment of Muslim refugees in the past.
Susan’s daughter is half Egyptian. You’d think she’d be more concerned about a Trump presidency.
She is rich people. If she pays lower taxes, she probably won’t complain about that.v
The ultimate white privilege move. And just like the anti-vax movement, relying on the herd to do your bidding.
You don’t get a vote of conscious, dumb bitch – you get a vote between Two, in the real world. You throw away your vote, for a Trump, by voting in any other way.
trump’s health care plan. Carson for Surgeon General, hmmm?
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/11/health-suspense/506144/
Jesus wept. I can’t even….
How in the f*cking world can this level of ignorance prevail?
I think a lot of people are ignorant and don’t vote “correctly” but it’s their vote.
I don’t really get these comments here. She can vote however she chooses. I figured the liberal Hillary supporters would trust a woman to make up her own mind about who to vote for.
The irony is lost on you guys.
She can vote however she chooses. We can criticise it if we choose.
There’s no irony. Liberal Hillary supporters (or, any feminists, for that matter), with any intelligence, don’t blindly trust anyone, regardless of gender, to make an intelligent decision. Of course “She can vote however she chooses.”. No-one says otherwise. It’s not her right I object to; it’s her lack of perspective and her immunity from personal negative consequences
(that will befall millions of others) from her actions .
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-rape-case_us_581a31a5e4b0c43e6c1d9834
Yes!! And it needs to be on all the channels, not just cable. Morning, noon and night. Thanks for link.👏👏👏
I dunno. With the cancellation of the press conference, now, it sounds kind of fishy.
They’re saying death threats. Who knows. But, even if true, it’ll be spun as fake.
Good writing! Susan just looks so silly.
I know this is a little off-topic, but I just read that Hillary spent $5 million in two days on TV ads in two states (MI & WI). It’s MIND BOGGLING to me the amount of money spent on these campaigns. Do you know what kind of good they could do for the country with the money blown? Ugh. It makes me physically ill.
She’s just given an interview on our ‘Newsnight’ that has proved…divisive, to say the least. A choice quote: ‘I don’t vote with my vagina, this is bigger than that’.
I only hope sanity prevails.
Much as I would prefer to have someone other than Hillary or Trump as president, it is going to be one of them. My vote of conscience is Hillary because Trump will do things like try to defund PP, leaving vulnerable people without access to medical care. I’m not ok with shrugging my shoulders and writing those people off as collateral damage for the next 4 years (and he’s a racist, sexist monster who will probably start WWIII). Susan Sarandon’s vote of conscience comes from a place of extreme privilege.
As an outsider, it boggles my mind that Trump has any followers at all. All those racist, sexist rude, insulting, conniving, lying things Trump has said and done and all that people seem to focus on are those damn emails. By the way, I think it must be corrupt and compromising US security when Roger Stone and Julian Assange collude with Trump to spread American secrets and private issues to the entire world to the delight of Russia. Lock THEM up!!!!
It will be interesting who wins…both suck.
Hillary is so superior it is ridiculous to compare the two.
Her vote does not count. If she is voting with her conscience, then write in Norm Chomsky. Someone who is both ethical and rational and knows more than anyone I can think of on domestic and foreign policy, both current and historical.
nice!
Her TPP support is extremely worrying
i understand the fear and anxiety a lot of posters have expressed…but if i can, we need to reject violent hysteria and name-calling for people who have political opinions that we may not like but is their CIVIL RIGHT to have!
refusing to respect and honor the civil rights of folks like Susan Sarandon (who although is not a Hilary fan, is not a demon and is an active politically engaged citizen), is a response based in panic which is exactly what is wrong with this election cycle. to descend into nastiness and fear mongering makes Hilary supporters no different in methodology to Trump supporters–it’s this fascist flexing of “IF YOU DARE TO DISAGREE WITH ME YOU SUCK” that has gotten us from policy debates into character assassinations and anti-intellectual discourse. we put people in categories for failing to be exactly like us!?!
i’m surprised at the tenor of this article, bc i have loved CB for its ability to be so human during crisis. let’s not fold to fear and nastiness: civil rights, difference of opinion are VITAL to us as citizens and is a vital legal mechanism to keep our leaders–of any party–accountable to citizenry. this election is a merely a symptom of our nation’s health—what we MUST do post election is not give up or rejoice based on who is president, but be actively in engaged from our own communities to healing, educating, serving, relating to each other. one leader does NOT fix things, WE DO.