I sort of love that Frank Ocean doesn’t do real interviews these days and whenever he wants to say something publicly, he just posts a CAPS-LOCK message on his Tumblr. That’s what happened yesterday. The backstory is that Rolling Stone did an “oral history” piece on the history of the Grammys, and Grammy producer Ken Ehrlich and writer David Wild specifically criticized Frank Ocean’s 2013 Grammy performance, saying: “That’s not great TV” and calling the performance “rigid” and “faulty.” So Ocean responded with a caps-lock explanation, and then he sort of went off about how the Grammys are completely out of touch (he’s not wrong). I’ll spare you the caps-lock! Here’s what Ocean wrote:
OK Ken (and David). As much as I hate to make you guys famous or even respond to you directly. We all die one day and you’re old so f–k it. Yea yea my 2013 performance at the Grammys was absolute sh-t. Technical difficulties, blah blah. Thanks for the reminder. Very much appreciated. F-ck that performance though. You think that’s why I kept my work out of the Grammy process this year? Don’t you think I would’ve wanted to play the show to ‘redeem’ myself if I felt that way?
In reality, I actually wanted to participate in honoring Prince on the show but then I figured my best tribute to that man’s legacy would be to continue to be myself out here and to be successful. Winning a TV award doesn’t christen me successful. It took me some time to learn that. I bought all my masters back last year in the prime of my career, that’s successful. ‘Blonde’ sold a million plus without a label, that’s successful. I am young, black, gifted and independent.. that’s my tribute.
I’ve actually been tuning into CBS around this time of year for a while to see who gets the top honor and you know what’s really not ‘great TV’ guys? 1989 getting album of the year over To Pimp A Butterfly. Hands down one of the most ‘faulty’ TV moments I’ve seen. Believe the people. Believe the ones who’d rather watch select performances from your program on YouTube the day after because your show puts them to sleep.
Use the old gramophone to actually listen bro, I’m one of the best alive. And if you’re up for a discussion about the cultural bias and general nerve damage the show you produce suffers from then I’m all for it. Have a good night.
In case you didn’t catch that, Frank Ocean just slammed Taylor Swift. He’s specifically saying it was a f–king joke that Taylor’s album 1989 won album of the year instead of Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp a Butterfly. While people can argue about Frank’s opinion, the truth is that many, many people feel the same way – that Taylor basically begged and campaigned and whined about it until she got Album of the Year (during which she made her speech all about Kanye) for what was really a pretty basic pop album. Many, many people thought Kendrick Lamar had the better album and that he best represents the future of music. Ocean’s also pointing out that black artists are often held to different standards at the Grammys, an issue that Kanye West has ranted about many times before (doesn’t make it less true though). As for the rest of it… Frank Ocean is the best.
Photos courtesy WENN.
i detect no lies.
Yep. Frank was right.
Very true. Also tragic? Macklemore winning over Kendrick for best rap everything. I wanted to throw my tv at that one. The Grammys are a joke and a half. Frank is right.
God I had forgotten about Macklemore. Poor Kendrick seriously.
WORD.
Kayci Caldwell Lets take a look at RIAA, according to them Frank Ocean’s first album only made it to gold in 4 years. His second album has been out for 6 monthes and has not made gold yet. His first album had three singles go gold and 2 platinum. Kendrick Lamar has 2 albums which went gold from 2013 until now. Only 3 singles from those albums have gone gold. Miss swift sold more albums on each of her last 3 releases in a week than he did in 4 years, in fact her worst selling album sold over 2.5 times as many as Frank, and Kendrick did together. Her last album had 2 gold, 2 platinum, 2 3x platinum, 1 4x platinum, 1 7x platinum, 1 8x platinum single. The Grammy people are just like other people they vote for what they like, and it is obivous people like Taylor Swift’s music.
Grammys shouldn’t be a popularity contest tho, should it? That’s what People’s Choice Awards are for. Then again, Grammys have been a joke for a long time, so I wonder why anyone still cares.
So the one who sells the most is the best musical artist?!?
Please.
Tanguerita Lahdidahbaby Again I ask how do you determine the quality of a album. It is subjective just like Olympic ice skating or diving or gymnastics. It is not measurable in minutes and seconds or feet and inches like how long it takes you to cover a certain distance, or how high you can jump.
“my opinion” I find rap music to be completely with out merit, What quality can you find in a lyrics which disrespects woman, and is as fowl mouthed as a 60’s sailor? It is not pleasant to the ear or mind. it is just disgusting.
“my observation” Rap is written and preformed for a limited number of people (you can see that very plainly by the number of copies sold between it and pop). Jazz (which I love) is also written for a limited audience, but jazz artist do not whine when they do not walk away with as many awards (at least I have never heard or read of them complaining). If he is such a brilliant writer he can start writing music which appeals to a wider audience or accept that he is writing for fringe audience and be happy with what he considers to be his art, and stop his whining. That is sad and disgusting at the same time.
Hard to add any more to that other than.. TRUTH! He is spot on.
HAHAHA!
As a Kanye apologist, there’s nothing that gives me more joy than Taylor being dragged, but her album was pretty solid. Even though it would have been fantastic for ‘To Pimp A Butterfly’ to have won, it does not need an award. It is above some award from a bunch of out-of-touch fools who get it wrong more times than right. It’s a masterpiece that will stand the test of time.
Isn’t that part of the point though? White woman makes a pretty solid album (even I liked it). Wins the big award. Black man makes an amazing album, a “masterpiece” as you call it. Does not win the big award.
The Grammys are a joke to me but it appears to still hold weight to some in the industry if artists are complaining about it. If Beyoncé doesn’t win tonight, ooh boy.
I have no beef with Adele but if she wins Best Album for regurgitating the same song and calling it “not a break up album”, I’ll scream. Its bad enough that white people have decided to declare Lala Land the bestest grooviest thing since Elvis, but I just cant with this nonsense twice in a year.
Disappointed that Frank Ocean didn’t point out that for all the Prince veneration, he died without a Best Album Grammy. Taylor Friggin Swift has TWO Best Album Grammys.
White woman made an album that outsold TPAB by ten to one and spawned the two highest-selling and most played on the radio songs of the year, all at a time when the recording industry is struggling to shift units. It was hands-down the the most successful album of the year, not some Steely Dan situation.
Which obviously doesn’t make TS any less insufferable, but saying it wasn’t a worthy winner just makes Frank Ocean sound like a Bitter Betty.
Just because 1989 outsold TPAB does not mean it was better. Not even close. It might be one of Swifty’s best album but it is still a tragically mediocre album.
I don’t know if Frank Ocean is bitter, but I am because there is always that double standard between white and non-white artists. It is tiring to see that white mediocrity always trumps (pun intended) black excellence.
@LB the whole point is that “masterpiece” is subjective. I certainly would not say that of Lamar’s album, and there are many people who would agree. Just like there are people who think it is a masterpiece. What isn’t subjective is how successful and wide-reaching 1989 was.
So why did Beyoncé lost to Beck if it’s really what matters to win AOTY?
Yeah, exactly.
This. Aren’t there already countless industry awards based on literal sales and chart positions? The Grammys was supposed to be about artistry, not only popularity. When they function along the exact same lines as the Billboard Music Awards, it’s time for them to go.
It’s not about sales. Art is never about sales. Taylor is good (not even great) at her particular niche. She sells. But she’s not dong great art. You don’t need to be a career artist to see that. She’s not breaking boundaries, making statements, etc. She’s not developing a genre. She’s doing the same thing over and over, packaged differently according to wherever she happens to be at that point in time. It’s mediocrity. Good mediocrity, paradoxically.
I am a Taylor apologist, and I have to say last year she annoyed me to no end. BUT, 1989 was a good pop album, the best selling album since 2002 and the highest grossing album of the year it was released. You can slam Taylor’s antics all you want and sure, pop music is not for everyone (not my favorite either) but it also annoys me when they diminish her accomplishments and talent just because she is Taylor Swift. Frank Ocean makes good points, yes the Grammys suck and are a tacky mess. And yes, Kendrick Lamar had a great album and is out of this world! And of course white artists are given a preference over everyone else. I just feel he could have emphasized his point without shading another artist who also deserved to win album of the year.
He was asked why he didn’t submit his album for any Grammys this year. And nobody has ever diminished Taylor’s accomplishments. She’s a horrid singer, a juvenile song writer (and she uses about 40 people to write her awful songs and a nasty person. No more apologists. Darth Susans get no more sympathy when Trump is President. She did not deserve to even be nominated.
Darth Susans
*screams with laughter*
No lies told though.
“Darth Susans”. OK, you win @Kasia.
Hope you judge yourself as harshly.
Everyone uses other people to write their songs. Lemonade had Jack White and 71 other musicians credited for writing her album.
“I just feel like he could have emphasized his point without shading another artist…”
But that’s the thing, right there. Black men are so often told that every time they speak up they’re doing it in the wrong way. His point specifically involved Taylor Swift and the fact that her album was given undeserved accolades, and so he made it. Taylor would still be fine drying her tears in her money if she didn’t have “best album” for 1989. If saying that she didn’t deserve the award diminishes her accomplishments, that’s pretty sad for her. If she needs a grammmy to feel validated (she does), instead of being validated by the success of her music, her tours and her fans, that’s on her. Frank’s whole point was that he doesn’t need any of that sh!t to feel successful, and I think that’s awesome.
Plus, I think Taylor Swift is the wrong person to defend if you’re mad about people shading other people.
Wow WORD.
Just because an album sells well and has hits doesn’t mean it’s extraordinary. Limp Bizkit also had hits and sold millions lol Taylor writes catchy songs, but that album will not stand the test of time. Butterfly will though.
I just don’t understand why everyone has to put Limp Bizkit down to make their point!!!😭
It was a good pop album, but not a great one and far from a masterpiece. Kendrick’s album will be remembered as one of the best this decade, Taylor’s certainly wont. The voters deserve to be dragged for such a bad choice.
So “a good pop album” is now the ultimate criterion for ALBUM OF THE YEAR ffs? I’m asking seriously, because that appears to be part of the debate here: Is this award about the best album artistically, or who won the popularity contest with the highest sales? Let me remind everyone that companies lie about sales and give away albums/sell albums for almost no money at all just to boost the all-important sales numbers, so it’s not like sales are an objective measure of success either.
This is bullshit and subjective and whiny. While I may find TSwift annoying sometimes, I thought 1989 was brilliant, and is one of the few albums that genuinely makes me happy, and I know so many people who absolutely adored it. Kendrick Lamar’s music has less broad appeal. Just because something is pop doesn’t mean it is lesser.
brilliant ??
Do you think the fact that Kendricks album has less “broad appeal” might have something to do with the fact that he’s not a blonde, white woman who had parents that were willing to finance her music career?
Also:
“Baby baby
I feel crazy
All night, all night
And every day”
That’s brilliant to you!?
Ahhh, cherrypicking! What an infallible and obviously completely concrete way to prove something.
Almost every song on the album was catchy and delightful, which is very rare and VERY hard to do. For me, personally, I enjoy it because it is the only album I have ever encountered that consistently lifts my mood and makes me want to dance, no matter where I am, or what I am doing. And it still does that after listening to it on repeat. As someone who tends to lean toward the depressive, that is no small feat.
And no, I do not think that has to do with broad appeal. It might have to do with the fact that he has had a more difficult journey to success. There are plenty of examples of artists like Beyonce, Rihanna, etc., who have broad appeal without being white blonde women. The album is catchy, and while it may not have reached the heights it did without the TSwift hype machine, it is a good album no matter who made it (and would have been just as good had someone else made it). The whole point is that it crossed borders and made a lot of people fall in love with it who do not particularly like pop. I would argue that Lamar’s work is much more niche and unable to transcend boundaries.
The whole point is music IS subjective, and people can be looking for different things from it. Personally, I think Lamar’s album is shit. The troubling part is that people jump on Tswift mostly just because they dislike her persona and it is cool to hate on her, just like it is cool to worship Adele and Beyonce. Just because you don’t like someone, that does not mean their work is automatically bad.
I agree with hmmm. (Though I’m not familiar with the whole 1989..) there are many catchy songs by black men even ones who aren’t the least bit hot looking on the radio. If people want to keep hearing a song it gets mass appeal . Kendricks songs must be too high art for me/ I was excited to check them out on YouTube after reading about him here but I don’t find his songs enjoyable . It’s not how the person looks.
@WAAMOS
I am a POC. huh?
I Agree with you. I wouldn’t go as far as calling him whiny because the Grammy’s do need to do better with recognizing good work. The thing is, Kendrick Lamar lost to a GOOD album. When I say good, I mean in terms of its appeal to people, enjoyability, writing skills, sales, performance etc. Not everyone heard the entire album, so many people missed songs like “clean” where she had lyrics like “the drought was the very worst, when the flowers that we’d grown together died of thirst, hung my head as I lost the war and the sky turned dark like a perfect storm”. There were many many many other occasions where a black artist lost to a white artist, He did not have to go there.
Why did he not have to go there? I feel like the whole race debate is a thorn in the side of TS lovers because it punctures their pretty notions of unconscious innocence and natural perfection and instead places them in a larger context of, um, reality. This is America and we discuss and debate things. Ocean has the right to say what he wants about his personal feelings and experiences. Lord only knows that should be the one thing that TS stans can’t disagree with.
WAAMOS,
Right on.
“i bought all my masters back last year in the prime of my career, that’s successful. ‘Blonde’ sold a million plus without a label, that’s successful. I am young, black, gifted and independent.. that’s my tribute.”
I find that statement much more important. Having worked in the music industry – you cannot put a price on that kind of independence, monetary and creative.
The thing is RIAA says he sold less than a million copies. It is only gold after 6 months.
He’s right, though she’ll probably use this a victim fodder soon enough.
I have a feeling the same thing will happen this year. Adele will get it over Beyoncé because she is the “safe” choice even though her album was dull and uninspired. I hope I’m wrong.
To be fair to Adele, I’m sure she would be thrilled if Beyoncé won, even if it was over her.
I’m not sure why that matters, but yes Adele is a gracious person and a big fan of Beyoncé.
Imo it does matter because Adele doesn’t really seem to care much about awards (although she’s always grateful about receiving them). Taylor, on the other hand, does care, and a lot. She has even said so herself.
Nah, Beyonce will get that hands down. And honestly I won’t be watching any of it.
Told you so.
Isn’t Kendrick Lamar the ex of the tall Kardashian one? Always thought the guy was a sportsman. Or maybe he’s both
Wut^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lamar odom, not the same!
Kendrick Lamar Odom and Dylan McDermott Mulroney. Am I the only one who thinks in these Wheel of Fortune before and afters?
Oh dear.
Eh
Taylor Swift is “white mediocrity” personified. She bought a way into the industry with daddy’s money and is now presented as that brilliant artist she is not. Weak voice (even when she’s just sitting behind a piano), juvenile songwriting, embarassing dance moves and questionnable pr.
And yet, judging by some of the responses here, she’ll always get a pass no matter how untalented of a performer she shows herself to be or how nasty of a person she shows herself to be.
Right? Jesus Christ.
I remember the first time I heard her live. I knew her because of the mess Kanye West made at the VMA but at the time she was not that big in France.
So, one day, I was watching the Grammys and she was performing live. And she sucked. She was out of breath, her voice was weak, the melody uninspiring. her stage behavior ridiculous. But I though well, it was just one performance, I’m going to listen to at least one album in full and read the lyrics as she is such a good songwriter apparently.
Holy shit. Again, why is she described like that brillant songwriter ? Listenning to her fans and some critics, you would think she is Springsteen or Dylan. I mean, to me she is on Britney Spears’ level in terms of songwriting.
And her voice is so weak, no range, no emotion, no … nothing.
It’s amazing really. Yet black women “raise their voice” and suddenly they are the devil. Latent racism is hella real
And contrast with someone like Janet Jackson, whose career got destroyed because she showed a nipple on TV.
@Ohdear, Everytime I see Timberlake, I think about the superbowl debacle and how little he has suffered for it, compared to Janet. Like, I don’t believe it was an accident, I think they both planned it but he came out smelling like a rose and she disappeared basically. And to think he might win an Oscar in 2 weeks.
I will forever despise Justin for letting Janet take the fall for that Super Bowl stunt. He is a coward.
I agree that white artists do get preference. There was an article about the rock voters having a meeting to decide if Beyonce did an actual rock song and concern she only did different types of songs to win awards. That’s a bizarre move considering artists cross genres all of the time. I don’t think Taylor should have won her first AOTY. I like some of the songs but it was very bubble gum. She beat Beyonce, The Black Eyed Peas, and Lady Gaga. Their albums to me were much better and more classic, still stands the test of time . I love Adele but I think she’ll win since her type of music will please the older members. Lemonade isn’t going to win over a lot of the older, white male crowd.
Just to be clear, they didn’t convene a meeting just to discuss Beyonce, that topic just came up at one of their meetings.
“I am young, black, gifted and independent.. that’s my tribute.”
YES BABY YES! Sing it louder!
AMEN
And hallelujah.
Frank is right. “To Pimp A Butterfly ” is a work of genius and 1989 was a typical, catchy pop record. I have very little interest in Taylor, so if she won “Best Pop Album By An 8th Grade Girl” or something.I wouldn’t care. But yeah, the Grammy’s are a joke.
It’s really interesting to read this thread and see how uncomfortable some people are with a black man telling the truth about a white woman. If Justin Timberlake had said this, how would you feel?
I would say the same thing. Why does Justin Timberlake need to diminish another person’s accomplishment to prove his point? My opinion on the matter has nothing to do with Frank Ocean being black. It has to do with the fact that Taylor Swift had literally nothing to do with any of this and he decided to drag her into the conversation….he could have proved his point without doing that.
Except the whole conversation was about the Grammies, and Taylor Swift won Album of the Year last year, the highest Grammy-honor you can receive? So no, sorry, you can’t say Taylor Swift had nothing to do with this. My comment wasn’t directed at any one person, because there’s a lot of this happening on this thread. All I’m gonna say is if you have to twist yourself into knots defending a Taylor Swift album, the musical equivalent to buttered toast, then maybe think about exactly why you’re doing it. She’s invested a LOT of time into painting herself as the fragile white flower who needs to be protected.
Are you really naive enough to believe that Swift (and her holier-and-better-than-thou rich pure white woman routine) does not profit enormously from the factors at play that Ocean is discussing? He is speaking directly about a particular instance that he views as epitomizing the problem with the Grammys, and he has the right to do so. He gave what many feel is a highly pertinent example, and he isn’t the first, second, or twentieth to do so.
Also, you don’t just win a Grammy. That’s like believing that you put up a handful of lawn signs and let a few people know that your name is on the ballot and you become a Congressman. This stuff is campaigned for. Months and months in advance. Like it or not, her peoples’ PR and business game is the reason she wins awards. She doesn’t just blow into the ceremony like a snowflake and feel genuinely surprised when she wins.
The record industry – which depends on record sales to survive – gave an award to the biggest-seller of the year and it’s a racial issue? Meanwhile, the two most-nominated artists of all time are both black and it would be hard to argue that neither Beyoncé nor Rihanna have never been rewarded for mediocre by-songwriting-committee pop music.
And of late, if Justin Timberlake says ANYTHING it’s completely picked apart by the posters on this site, so I’m confused by your argument.
All I’m saying is that I’m seeing people falling all over themselves to defend Taylor Swift, who has proven time and time again to be a nasty, manipulative user and who’s music is mediocre. I know middle school students who could write lyrics with more depth. She’s also incredibly wealthy, succesful, and privileged, so I don’t see why she’s such a victim that needs defending, unless people are threatened by the fact that it’s a black man who’s criticizing her.
Even if it’s not a conscious thing, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they’re so ardently defending her against criticism from a black man who prefers black music. I’m not saying everyone is fully aware of what they’re doing, but in reading these comments I’m definitely picking up on these undertones. You can all disagree with me all you want, and that’s totally fine. But that’s not going to change what I feel when I read some of these comments. It doesn’t help that Taylor Swift herself has conciously tried to position herself as the victim of a big bad black man before, when in fact she was the one being shady.
Oh please if that was the case then why did BECK win over Beyoncé? Try again.
Nah he’s spot on – but people dragging Taylor is like a hobby for some. I liked 1989 (what can I say, I sometimes like meaningless bubble gum pop) and I can play it with my kids in the room. My kids will not be learning explicit language in my home, so while the snippets I listened to of Lamar’s album are amazing, they aren’t getting any air time here.
That Taylor’s small gifts continue to blast less talented people out of the running is depressing.
None of his songs are familiar to me .. Isn’t it most often familiar songs that win (not so much art based) 1989 was good though. Adele is good too. I purchased lemonade but Adeles songs I like a bit more. ive only heard the Adele songs that are on the radio though
I detect no lies.
And I’d be absolutely shocked if Taylor Swift has the maturity to pass up painting herself as the victim of a black guy yet again, she loves that narrative.
Absolutely. Beneath all this Kanye West/Nicki Minaj vs Taylor Swift lurks something sinister, angry black man/woman threatening white innocence stereotype. Yikes!
I’d forgotten about the Nicki beef, I should amend that part to read ‘victim of a black person’.
Also I don’t remember seeing Swifty acknowledge even once that Beyoncé was the one who called her back onstage during Bey’s own acceptance speech at the ‘imma let you finish’ awards. She loves that ‘victimised by blackness’ trope way too much to even bother.
It will be interested to see if she responds. There was backlash against her the last time she tries to play the poor white innocent child persecuted by the big black man but I never got the impression her base was annoyed with her behavior. If I were in her shoes, I would keep playing the victim. It’s Trump’s America after all.
Taylor Swift should have won album of the year for Red. Having said that taste in music is subjective. I had no issues with Taylor winning for 1989. You can call it a basic pop album all you want, but again that’s subjective. There’s a reason why it had such widespread appeal. And yes you can argue that widespread popularity means something is good. People aren’t going to be buying music if it isn’t that good especially the way folks were buying 1989. You can say the Grammy’s are trash without diminishing another person’s accomplishment. So while Frank Ocean is right for the most part, I don’t think he needs to bring up Taylor Swift to prove his point. If he did this to any other person most of you guys would be criticizing him but because it’s Taylor Swift, ya’ll don’t care and are cheering him on.
Nah, Frank is right and his point would still be there even if Kendrick had won the gramy. But you do you I guess. Taylor Swift is still winning despite being mediocre so I don’t get why you feel the need to defend her.
This right here is the entire point I’m trying to make. Taylor Swift is so rich that she could take a bath in her money every night, and yet some people here are still falling all over themselves to defend her like she’s some helpless victim. Hmm.
I’m defending her because it’s absolutely ridiculous at the hypocrisy that goes on here. Frank did not need to mention any names. He chose Taylor Swift for a reason. Just because you and others didn’t find 1989 worthy of Album of the Year doesn’t mean it’s “terrible” or wasn’t good enough. Kendrick lost to a good pop album…some would consider it “great” too. Do I personally like 1989 over Kendrick’s album? No. And if I had a vote I would have voted for Kendrick. The point I’m trying to make is that Frank’s beef is with the Grammys. So why is Taylor Swift specifically mentioned? There are countless other examples that can prove his point. That’s all I’m trying to say.
I also want to add that his message has been lost because everyone is talking about Taylor Swift instead of the message he’s trying to say. I’m not disagreeing with what he’s saying. I just believe his message would have been better delivered had he not mentioned Taylor specifically. His beef is with the Grammys. Leave the other artists out of it.
@SAM everyone’s not talking about Taylor, you are. Everyone was simply agreeing with Frank until you made it a big issue that he singled her out…he did so because, to him, that was a bad Grammy moment, not his “bad” performance years ago because guess what matters more years later…a bad performance or a bad decision when awarding the biggest prize of the night…why do the Grammys keep screwing Kendrick over for white artists? That’s what everyone is focusing on because that’s what’s important. NOT Taylor, she’s not important
If widespread appeal and sales are what’s more important, how did Beck beat Beyonce ?
Also, people buy crap everyday. Before the Heir of Slytherin, the biggest pop princess was Britney Spears, someone who has not sing live since the Hillary Clinton headband’s days.
“The heir of slytherin” I just spit out my drink
@Nicole, To be honest, it’s not from be, I saw it on twitter but it’s very apt, isn’it ?
It is. She’s honestly terrible
I don’t think he’s necessarily criticising Taylor herself, rather the committee that decides on who receives the awards.
And I agree with his criticism. But why mention an artist specifically is my whole point.
I think in every medium: film, literature etc, genres that are perceived as being aimed at women or girls, are always seen as lesser. So pop music, romantic comedies, “chick lit” (hate that term), period dramas, musicals are all seen as lesser and not “art”. Whereas I think all genres are valid and all genres contain a mixture of good, bad and mostly mediocre. Taylor made a great pop album (as she intended) and was as deserving as any other nominee. As someone who is primarily a pop music fan, I get sick of my taste being sneered at. Pop isn’t lesser than rap, hip hop, indie or other genres and you shouldn’t be embarrassed to be a fan. A good album is a good album and it was infuriating when Ryan Adams covered 1989 and some saw that as being the superior version. That a white man with a guitar somehow transformed it into art. Erm no. So I was glad to see a pop album win because out of the five nominated, that’s the one I’ve gone back to again and again and I don’t think pop gets it critical due. With that being said, there is clearly a problem with the Grammys not giving minority artists the big prize. I think you can acknowledge that whilst also thinking that 1985 deserved to win.
*1989 obvs.
The idea that pop music made by white women is seen as lesser that rap or hip hop is widely wrong.
If you go and listen to some indie artists youll see Taylor is not as talented as people think. First Aid Kit sing indie Folk, and God their first and second album are pretty good. And they were only 15 or 17.
@Steph, thank you thank you! I had already heard First Aid Kit in a French ad but I did not know the name of the band or the song. Now thanks to you, I know. I love the !
This was a huge pile of white feminist explaining for why a mediocre white artist with a mediocre album deserved to win over a well written more artistically sound rap album. Love the implications that a specifically black genre is somehow more representative of a power structure in entertainment that has downplayed black contributions than an average at best pop album from a white woman winning again.
Frank Ocean is Taytay’s new Kanye. He’s going to be the next one “trying to claim her success as his own” or whatever she said in her “empowering feminist” Grammy speech.
+ 1.
Agree with him 100% – Taylor even being nominated is the triumph of mediocrity (Same goes to you, Timberlake). What sticks in my mind about her speech was the ‘first women to win TWO awards’ – Yeah, whatever, Taylor, you still can’t sing or dance for shit.
God I had forgotten she had won TWICE. And apparently, Prince does not even have one ?
I agree with him about the Grammy’s horrible racism and I’m sure 1989 wasn’t best Album of the year win material. And I like pop music but I’m going to tell the truth. Eh, I wouldn’t have mentioned any names but that’s just me.
I’m disappointed that the big takeaway and headline is “Frank shades Taylor”. He was making a much larger point, and instead everyone focuses on Taylor again.
I love that Frank Ocean put his money where his mouth is. He chose not to participate in the system, and it was really disappointing to see it chalked up to jealousy. The Grammys are ridiculous. The way they had to convene a huge group to decide if it was acceptable that Beyoncé was a rock song? Nope. But yeah, please let us talk about Taylor more.
That was my take away as well. If Frank hadn’t mentioned Taylor in a negative way then this wouldn’t have been covered.
It’s all about the one negative thing he said, because people will jump on the mention of Taylor, instead of his broader more important message.
Let’s make this all about Taylor when it’s about the system and his experience.
Having already read both the Academy’s shot and Ocean’s reply, I was really disappointed to see the header basically say ‘Frank Ocean talks about Taylor Swift’. Granted, it’all get more clicks that way because people can’t help themselves when it comes to Taylor Swift, but shouldn’t we at least be honest with ourselves when we’re a part of the problem?
I know. It’s about the system. Same with the Oscars
i agree. I thought that part was the least interesting about his statement and as posters above pointed out, more directed at the Grammy organization than as TS as talent.
Much more important – as i mentioned above – is to me:
“i bought all my masters back last year in the prime of my career, that’s successful. ‘Blonde’ sold a million plus without a label, that’s successful. I am young, black, gifted and independent.. that’s my tribute.”
I find that statement much more important. Having worked in the music industry – you cannot put a price on that kind of independence, monetary and creative.
You are correct, and so we should place some of the responsibility on the author of this very article on this website, and ourselves. We are part of the problem. Let’s not make it about the header that will attract clicks and attention, let us zone in on the real issue.
I completely agree with Frank Ocean but I’m kind of mad at him because he gave her perfect material for her next stage performance of poor white innocent girl victimized by the big black meanies of hip hop (nicki, kanye, now Frank).
I think regarding Taylor “The Bloom is off the Rose”.
didnt 1989 come out in fall of 2014? It’s 2017. Wth? If it wasnt good enough in 2015 or 2016….something isnt right here.
Well it’s not nominated for last year’s Grammys which are being held tonight
Thanks!! Huh… thought today was monday…i hope this isnt gonna be a “Day ahead” week. Don’t work a typical job, but still want my days straight. Anyhoo….never watch the grammys just youtube performances to convert for later!!
Same here. Celeb itchy pretty much tells me which ones to watch
Keep in mind, Art is subjective. And it’s not just how deep it is and how controversial the subjects are. The pleasure it brings and the melodies are also part of the value. At least I’m pretty sure that is how they would write things in the Grammys
I didn’t read that as slamming Taylor. Just that the people who vote or chose who wins need to give their head a shake.
She puts out an album, and it sells and is popular because she is Taylor. It doesn’t even need to be great, it will sell anyway. That’s why awards mean nothing anymore, they are not merit based at all, if they even ever were.
So basically, this entire conversation is moot. He’s right, it’s a popularity contest, nothing more, and he can do more by producing excellent music. I suppose a “real” artist doesn’t need some statue accolade to feel their music touched people.
PS: I don’t consider Taylor an artist. Just someone cashing in while she can. Nothing wrong with that, but let’s not pretend she is changing the world through her music. Some artists do, she is not.
Excellent point about the Grammy’s. Did a disservice to himself by mentioning Taylor, because that is all people are going to focus on now. Regardless of the artist, never name drop. 1989 and to pimp a butterfly were both good.
I have never heard Frank Ocean, and I’ve only heard like two Swift Songs (“Mean” and “Shake it Off”), and I’ve heard exactly one Kendrick Lamar song at a party almost two years ago…. I haven’t much to say about any of them as artists. Ocean’s words are very inspiring, and it’s odd to me that his general message is lost because people glitch out if you don’t kiss Taylor’s ass all the time. It’s about FRANK OCEAN.
I have mixed feelings about Swift. She’s good at what she does, and I don’t look down my nose at pop music because it’s, well, pop. But I don’t think she is at all groundbreaking or that her music will have a lasting impact on anything.
Can’t make myself care about any of this. They are all ego-driven @sshats for the most part. And the person you want to win never does. That’s the way these shows go. I stopped caring about them around about the time I stopped putting teen idol posters up on my wall.
…
“listen bro, I’m one of the best alive.”
Someone thinks pretty highly of themselves. No wonder he’s friends with Kantye.
…And that’s what you took from everything he had to say. Eyes on the prize, I see.
Art isn’t science. It’s subjective. And it’s getting so old for people to put others down just to raise themselves up. Stay classy.
It distracts from his message that he uses ageism. There are old people who are out of touch, but not necessarily, and young people can be out of touch, too, so that’s not really an argument. I know such a lot of old and wise people; I guess that’s why ageism always upsets me so much.
.
Oh..so much for feminism. Shouldnt’ we be standing up for the success of females, even if it’s TAylor Swift. It’s classic male chauvinism, women never deserve to win, aren’t ever good enough, aren’t popular enough..always something less…
So much for feminism, considering it’s been reduced to a tool to defend white female mediocrity and taking advantage of racist perceptions and power structures.
Perfectly stated, teacakes.
“I am young, black, gifted and independent.. that’s my tribute”
FCUK YES. beautiful.
Hard to argue with the TRUTH. On a superficial note, he is just so handsome.