I was actually well into my 20s before I really understood how royal titles and royal names worked. Like, I honestly thought that everyone in the Windsor family would just “take” the name Windsor when and if they needed a surname. But that’s not what happens. When you are the child of a royal figure with a prince of/duke of/earl of title, you take the title-name as your surname. While Prince Charles’s surname would be Charles Windsor, his title is the Prince of Wales, so Prince Harry of Wales would be Harry Wales, and Prince William of Wales would be Will Wales. Both Harry and William went by Wales whenever they were in need of a surname. Now William would be… Will Cambridge, I guess? Because he’s the Duke of Cambridge? I actually don’t know about that, but I know Will’s kids are “of Cambridge,” so Cambridge should be their surname. Except maybe not?
He’s known to the world as ‘Prince George’ but the young royal will have to adopt an official surname when he starts school in September – and royal pundits are debating which one he’ll opt for. The third-in-line to the throne, who just celebrated his fourth birthday, will need a surname for the school register and there’s two possible monikers: Cambridge or Mountbatten-Windsor.
Technically, because his great-grandmother is the Queen, he has the title of ‘His Royal Highness’ so he doesn’t actually need a surname at all. But according to The Royal Family’s website, if any members of the royal family need an official surname, they can use ‘Mountbatten-Windsor’.
It reads: ‘For the most part, members of the Royal Family who are entitled to the style and dignity of HRH Prince or Princess do not need a surname, but if at any time any of them do need a surname (such as upon marriage), that surname is Mountbatten-Windsor.’
The surname came to fruition when Princess Elizabeth (George V’s granddaughter) married Philip Mountbatten in 1947. Princess Anne used it on her marriage certificate in 1973. Prince George could also follow in the footsteps of his father and use ‘Cambridge’ as his surname. Both Princes William and Harry used ‘Wales’ as their surname during their time at school and in the military in an ode to their father, the Prince of Wales. MailOnline has contacted Kensington Palace and is awaiting a response.
I thought Will and Harry used Wales because they had to? They likely didn’t have a choice in the matter when they were little, and they entered school as Will Wales and Harry Wales. I would assume the York princesses use York as their surname too? Eugenie York and Beatrice York? Sure, why not. Anyway, it seems bizarre to me that we’ve been calling him Prince George of Cambridge this whole time when really we could have been saying George Mountbatten-Windsor. I will forever hate that the Queen had to change the name of the royal house to reflect Philip’s adoptive father (Lord Mountbatten) too. Mountbatten always wanted his name to be reflected in the royal family and he got his wish.
Anyway, my guess is that George will enter school as George Cambridge. If they go with a double-barrel surname, they should totally go with George Middleton-Cambridge though.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I think Wills will want to assert independence and use Windsor. But I’m curious to see what the name will be because it will send a silent message.
I think Carole is pushing for Middleton: Prince George Future King of England Grandson of Carole Middleton. 😉
See i think Cambridge for the same reason. He wants control and wants everything to be in the Court of the Cambridges.
+1000
Wi dsor middleton.
But who theheck cares. Instead of artivles of substance duty and service fir the millions handed over…we hear more entitled selfish useless to the people of GB.
Windsor is the family named (changed back in the early 1900’s) Wales is the title not a family name
I pity him having to learn to print Mountbatten-Windsor. Give the kid a break and go with Wales! lol!
Yeahhhh… I’ve been hyphenating my name since getting married 3 years ago. I don’t at work because it’d cause more confusion than anything. And I haven’t officially changed anything… but it keeps the inlaws happy. But my hyphenated name is way more complicated than Mountbatton-Windsor… it has a random ‘surprise’ q in it that nobody ever spells right… but that’s the husbands last name causing the confusion. I guess if we have kids I’d just have them use the one name – their dads – though his is the one that causes the most issues.
Just my personal take on the use of names for children, very respectful and nothing personal to anyone.
Isn’t it better to use just one family name for all members, or composed family names for the children – with surnames of both parents (Spanish/Portuguese-like). Makes it easier to travel through airports or in relation to authorities – easier to prove family links in case that birth certificate is not required.
An acquaintance of mine kept her husband’s name after they divorced – she told me she wanted to have the same surname as her children. I also read in the DM about a divorced woman who had problems at the gate before boarding as her under-aged children had different surnames to hers.
In my country usually the woman takes her husband’s family name but it is not binding by law. I’ve read that in some European countries women keep their family name by default. And that in Sweden married couples can even choose a name for themselves, as a couple!!! Different from their own family names.
@SoulSPA, when I divorced (my children were adults by then) I kept my ex’s name only because to change it would be a massive undertaking. Also kept it because of my kiddos. My granddaughter (13) is going to England in a couple weeks with her grandfather (different last name) and my daughter had to get notarized affidavits that it was okay for her to be travelling with him and he had the power to make medical decisions. It is a protection for the child in case he/she is kidnapped or is being used in sex trafficking. When I take the grandchildren to Disney World I always get a notarized affidavit that I can have them treated if something happens.
Grandparents can’t leave the country with their grandkids even if they do have the same last name as their grandkids. Border guards in the US and Canada will require written permission from the parent. And most schools only permit a specific amount of people to pick up a child at school. Having the same last name or not is irrelevant unless the parent has provided permission. None of this would matter for Will or Kate’s kids though.
SoulSPA
I’m not overly worried. I don’t even have a passport currently – mine expired before I had even gotten engaged. I’ll end up having to make a decision before applying for a new one – if I go by the assumed name of the relationship, I’ll need to update my drivers license before so that it has the name I’ll be using for the passport on it.
There’s plenty of people who have a different surname than their kid – and sometimes it can cause issue, other times it’s fine. Traveling with birth certificates that show my last name would prove relation. But at the end of the day, I might legally change everything over to his name in the end. Who knows. I’m not going to leave it to a last-minute thing, but there’s also a possibility that I’ll keep my own name all-together, and have to be prepared for the possibility that it can throw a wrench into things.
I changed my name back to my birth name when I divorced my first husband. I was never comfortable with his name, it just wasn’t me. I also kept my birth name when I remarried. While my son was a teenager and still living with us we all had different last names, it wasn’t a big deal.
One trend I’ve noticed is when the woman keeps her married name after a divorce because of the kids, they’re very quick to change to their new husband’s last name when they remarry. So much for the kids, I guess.
Never changed my surname and both my husband and my child seem to know who we are and how we belong together. Never been a problem with traveling across borders either. Names are not evidence of connection; documents are.
Married 15 years, never changed my name. Child is 13 years old – my last name is her middle name, she has her father’s last name. It has never, ever been an issue – schools, doctor’s offices or border control.
There are some people who call me by my husband/daughter’s last name – mostly friends of hers. It doesn’t bother me, but it’s not my name.
Ah well, his whipping boy can do it for him.
Mountbatten-Windsor sounds like a company that sells over priced camping gear. Anything but that.
LOL
Cambridge is the logical choice, though Shortpants would also work.
Yes, the poor kid with those shorts. 🙁
the poor kid, end of…the best thing they could do for their child would be to let him live his life in anonymity…
I read that the reason he and Charlotte are always dressed in such retro-looking outfits for public appearances is so that in their off time, when they’re dressed in more comfy modern clothing, people don’t recognize them and mostly leave them alone. I think it’s actually a pretty smart idea on Kate and Will’s part.
Philip’s real surname is not Mountbatten, which is the anglicized version of his mother’s surname, Battenberg. Philip and his male descendants’ surname is Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg. And QE II is a Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The royals wanted people to forget their German origins so they anglicized their surname. IMO there’s no reason nowadays to continue the charade. They should revert to their real surnames.
They didn’t anglicise their surname. They abandoned their own name and picked an English one to replace it.
It’s it’s not that uncommon to change surnames. The current ones are their real surnames not a charade.
Well, I believe we should never be ashamed of or deny our heritage/roots/ethnicity, etc. So I think the Queen should be proud of the fact that she is half German, and Philip should celebrate the fact that he is fully German. The wars are far behind and the Anglo-German animosity is long forgotten.
@mimchen
The Queen isn’t half German though.
You have to remember that for a period of time the British royal family did not want to seem to have ties to Germany, which of course they did as most royalty intermarried for a long time. It has nothing to do with denying your roots. No one wanted to be intertwined with Hitler.
@bitsy
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You see It in Charlotte and I don’t. I will never be ashamed of expressing my opinions. It would be absurd to claim all people are beautiful/pretty/attractive when it’s obviously not true. I was not a pretty toddler/child myself and there’s no shame in that. I do think the Queen was a pretty girl and later on a pretty young woman. You obviously disagree. It’s your opinion and I wouldn’t dare to imply you should be ashamed of it. Blue hair and blue eyes are not my only criteria for beauty. Quite the opposite, as I prefer the Mediterranean type myself.
It wasn’t about being intertwined with Hitler at first – the name was changed during the first WW, and it is an Anglicization.
The name change was in 1917. Long before Hitler.
@carlina
I am a human being. This means that when I see something or someone I instantly form an opinion regarding the physical characteristics of that person/object/thing, etc. It is a subjective opinion and I cannot control it or change it just because. If I find a dress ugly, no amount of self reproach on my part will make me think it’s the most beautiful dress in the world. Call it spinning, call it disgusting and horrible. I’m not judging anyone for their looks. I don’t find Charlotte pretty and I’m entitled to my opinion. It really seems an absurdity to claim that all children are beautiful. I’m glad that you, on the other hand, are not at all judgemental and that you can objectively appreciate everyone. It must be wonderful to see beauty everywhere, I wish I could do that.
@mimchen –
No one is asking you to control or change your tendency toward negative snap judgments of innocent children. We are all entitled to your opinions, right? For example, it is my opinion that people who slate children for their looks are lacking common decency. I am not at all ashamed of that opinion and I’m free to express it, amirite?
The name change was because the king’s first cousin, the Kaiser, was behind WWI. Queen Victoria’s grandchildren were fighting amongst themselves and it was not seemly to share the same last name.
Phil isn’t german though, he’s about half and half danish
Arent they like, 3 percent german now? British people are so bitter ha ha.
i watched a documentary about philip that made me feel rather bad for him, to be honest. he was shoved so far behind the queen that he had little to no identity of his own. everyone around the queen hated him. the first time mountbatten-windsor was used he looked so happy showing off the monograms, and i believed the queen loved him very much and was happy to eventually be able to do that for him.
From what little I’ve read about him, it seemed he assumed he was going to be King. I’m sure it was quite the ego bruise when the Queen didn’t give him that title.
His uncle thought he would have more power (not “be the king” though) and his uncle definitely thought that Elizabeth, like a good 50’s wifey, would change her name to Mountbatten. It wouldn’t have changed much for her, since she went by HRH at the time, but any future children would be from the House of Mountbatten.
That was not allowed. Prince Phillip reportedly felt like a sperm donor, but they didn’t have that term then, so he said “amoeba”.
PP has always said that his role was to support the Queen. His actions have also been in line with that. On a professional level, at least. I don’t think he was unfaithful on a personal level, but it’s possible.
Diana and Catherine are English through and through very little German ancestry in George and Charlotte so you should probably let that go.
I forgot to add that George should definitely be known as George Middleton. He and Charlotte are Mike and Carole’s little doubles. No trace of Windsors or Spencers in those kids.
Until they hit their mid-20s. That’s usually when the Windsor genes emerge.
Don’t know if that’s good or bad, LAK.
Maria: see post-25yr old Windsors to decide.
I’m not sure who you are looking at because there are some very obvious Spencer and Windsor traits in both kids.
Charlotte looks just the the Queen…and the Middleton haters, HATE it…
You can’t compare a 2 year old toddler with a 91 year old woman. You should put side by side Charlotte’s photos and photos of the Queen at 2. You’ll see there’s no resemblance at all: different eyeshape, face, nose, mouth, etc. The Queen was a very pretty toddler, blonde hair, big blue eyes, rosebud mouth, etc. Charlotte has George’s face shape, the Middleton thick eyebrows and Carole’s small eyes. In fact, she’s Carole’s spitting image. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. I think Charlotte looks like a little old woman sometimes, so I understand that some people might see a resemblance between Charlotte and the only old woman in her family, i.e. The Queen. Anyway, Lady Louise Wessex is the one who truly looks like the Queen.
She swings between Carole, Pippa and Lady Sarah Chatto.
This is Sarah as a child
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/76/e7/36/76e7368433b88abc95312b2325d8b308–princesa-margaret-lady-sarah-chatto.jpg
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/her-royal-highness-princess-margaret-countess-of-snowdon-the-earl-of-picture-id584333028?s=612×612
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/lady-sarah-armstrongjones-daughter-of-princess-margaret-during-the-picture-id457361564
More recent picture
http://i2.wp.com/seldagoktas.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/lady-sarah-chatto-1.jpg?resize=339%2C452
@clove
LOL. But I hope she outgrows it.
Queen Elizabeth looks too much like that Queen Mary for my taste.
All in all the Windsors – male & female – are a dutiful, but unattractive bunch, from youth to middle age.
Only Andrew was passable when he was in the navy. (And young Margaret had attractive glamour fitting for her time I guess.)
I thought Margaret was very beautiful until the late 70s/ early 80s when the alcohol and hard living hit her all at once.
@mmchen The Queen may have had blonde hair and blue eyes, but she was never, has never, and will never be conventionally pretty. Unless blonde and blue are your only requirements for pretty. Diana and Catherine have helped the Windsor genes tremendously. And shame on you for implying a toddler isn’t pretty.
Not all toddlers or babies are pretty or cute. Being attractive isn’t everything in life.
@Bisty –
Agreed. I respect Lizzie, she’s good, but I have never, ever, thought her features remotely pretty.
Blonde hair /blue eyes combo not withstanding.
Philip was good looking but he and Lizzie’s genes meshed to make not particularly attractive offspring.
There are some outliers yeah, but the Windsors overall have to be one of the least attractive of royal families.
Odd cause Edward VII and that generation weren’t too bad.
@Jegede & Bitsy 🙋👍
Anytime I watch those historical shows and I see the Queen, I always think what a nice woman, sweet smile, pleasant demeanour e.t.c but never see her as particularly attractive facially. Ever.
Wow, Pippa-don’t get so huffy. Anyway-Charlotte is adorable but she’s a mini Carole with her squinty eyes.
I think Charlotte looks like the Queen, also. She has the mischievous twinkle in her eyes like the Queen. I do think she also looks like the Middletons, but I see the Queen in her eyes.
I’m happy she doesn’t look like Diana. Imagine living with that.
People are so damned weird about this child’s looks SMH…
Anyway, I think Charlotte looks like herself! You can see a nice multi-generational mix in her features — a little bit of her parents, a bit of her grandparents. But I think she bears a striking resemblance to her dad–George looks more like his mom. They’re both cuties.
When people say Chaz looks just like the queen they mean as a 91 year old woman. Not as a child the same age. Charlotte has an old ladies face to me and she is always pulling weird faces. Just sayin
I feel like the Duke of Gloucester and his late brother Prince William of Gloucester made out ok looks wise. Duke of Kent not so much.
Wow, the late William of Gloucester (died at age 30; he would be 75 this year) was a very handsome man. Definitely handsome, with beautiful eyes.
He and his younger brother, Richard, were first cousins to Elizabeth and Margaret. Had his father been the elder son, he would have been King.
This child is so cute. I love his jaunty little outfits. Look at that stroll with his hand in his pocket. Adorable.
The entire family is Windsor. Only HM’s direct descendants are Mountbatten – Windsor.
They’re right about no surname required. This is just a form-filling exercise so that fellow pupils (or colleagues later on) aren’t required to refer to the child by his titles while he’s at school or in the army or whatever. I imagine he’ll put down Cambridge for the school and, much later on, if he ever becomes king, he’ll revert to Mountbatten-Windsor just for historical dynasty purposes.
I’d definitely go for Cambridge-Middleton, if only for a laugh. Imagine the reaction in the Middletons’ Court. Getting their name on official papers. Hahahahaha! Hahahahaha! But that will never happen. My guess is his family name, if any, will be Cambridge. Awaiting the comment from KP though.
George is growing up to be really good looking.
He is a very handsome little guy.
I think he really looks like Michael M. And I don’t see Charlotte looking like a Middleton, more like the Queen
Yeah, he was a bruiser baby whose features are coming along nicely. Let’s hope he also avoids the Windsor hairline.
Look at his mom’s father for what his hair is likely to look like. Comes through the maternal line usually.
I could be incorrect, but it also depends on when the Queen dies, because when Charles becomes King – William becomes the Prince of Wales. Charles must confer it, but it would be rather shocking if it didn’t happen. At which point, little George could use Wales.
The Mountbatten thing is a story all in itself. I believe it was Churchill that told the new Queen to not use it – to go with Windsor. Phillip was incredibly pissed. I think it was only in the last five years or so that the Queen’s children – namely Anne – decided to start using the Mountbatten name in honour or Phillip – who retired from public service yesterday BTW.
HM’s mother lived to 100+, HM might as well. It could be another decade of the situation we have now. It is up to Charles when and if he awards the POW title when/if he becomes king. William would be Duke of Cambridge and Cornwall, or Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge regardless. For school purposes, picking Cambridge and sticking with it for years makes sense.
That means both Charles and Camilla will be 80. Wow, I wouldn’t want to start a new job at that age. But a lot is being passed down already, I gather.
“royal pundits are debating which one he’ll opt for”.
As if. It’s not like he will draw a name out of the hat. Who will make the decision though?
I would have so much respect for Kate if she managed to make Middleton-Cambridge happen. But of course she won’t.
They would burn her alive for that.
She can’t. She has absolutely no power or authority to do any such thing.
You know Beatrice and Eugenie will never NOT go by “princess”! They will be hanging onto that title and refusing surnames when they are 95 year old biddies whose actual lineage everyone else has forgotten!
LMAO. True!
With a dentured Fergie pulling up behind them.
Why should they give up the rightful titles they were given at birth, merely because you don’t like them as people? Princess Alexandra continues to go by Princess Alexandra, even though she’s been Mrs/Lady Ogilvy for decades. Do you have any vitriol for her too, or just for the Yorks?
You know the answer, nota.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Alexandra,_The_Honourable_Lady_Ogilvy
Alexandra’s title. She uses both. If Beatrice and Eugenie marry I imagine they will as well.
I think George Middleton-Cambridge is very appropriate and modern. It would give nod to his mother’s family and acknowledge his title. I think Mountbatten-Windsor is unfortunate but they’ll probably go with that.
If they were going to be “modern”, they’d scrap the whole thing, save the country 600 million a year, and go be private citizens. As long as they keep living off the taxpayers, they’ll keep the system as it is. That means Cambridge is most likely.
It really wasn’t that kind of comment. Modern in the sense that they are taking the mother’s maiden name. I actually think Middleton-Windsor would be a better fit. Cambridge is only their temporary title until Prince of Wales for William. They should probably go with Windsor, Middleton-Windsor or Mountbatten-Windsor.
But it goes along with the discussion. The idea that they’d be modern and add Middleton, when they live in-and-off a society that supports old-fashioned dynastic names? I’m still surprised that Mountbatten was added, but it is a private name not a dynastic one. Maybe they’ll just own up to it and go with Middleton alone 😉
He doesn’t stop being the Duke of Cambridge, he’d add the title Cornwall to it. Cambridge will be part of William’s title until if/when he becomes king. That could be tomorrow or decades from tomorrow.
you summed them up perfectly in your first comment, nota. if only!!! but no, not in this life sadly…
I’m starting to think that’s exactly what they should do.
@merritt
The Queen is half German because George VI was fully German. Yeah, I know, technically some of his ancestors were kings of Denmark, but they were of German origins entirely. In fact, George VI’s most recent ancestor with English/ Scottish blood was James I of Scotland, born in the 1560s. Three hundred years of marriages with Germans followed, so it’s safe to say that George VI had German origins.
George VI was half German?
Presumably you mean James 6 of Scotland, born 1567.
Also, the Windsors are descended from his daughter Elizabeth. George 1 was her grandson or his great grandson to be more precise.
Oh come on, we all know their family name is really “Keen”.
Lol
This is a good comment. Well done.
George Dolittle has a nice ring to it.
I like the name Windsor.
Those kids are cute. There are homely kids out there who grow up to be very attractive. These two already are. I find Charlotte to be a very pretty little girl and George too cute for words. I love his little shorts.
George has already been in school at the Montessori school. So this is probably a non-story. It has probably already been decided what his surname is.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-george/12123404/Prince-George-is-lucky-to-attend-a-Montessori-nursery-the-long-waiting-lists-mean-no-one-else-has-a-chance.html
Lord, he’s such a sweet-looking little boy. I hope he and Charlotte grow up to do something sensible/worthwhile with their lives.
he’s not prince george of cambridge though, he’s just prince george. he’s not prince of anything, his prince title is just a courtesy title because of who his great-grandmother is. just like prince william, prince harry, princess beatrice, etc, their titles are all courtesy titles because they are the queen’s grandchildren.
first world problems
George looks like the comedian Louie Anderson. Even down to the haircolor.
#CannotUnseeIt
Exactly! I’ve been saying this since he was a toddler. He is a bit cuter than Louis, though.
HE IS TOO OLD TO PLAY MR.BOND! BEING WE ARE GOING ECNIC, I STRONGLY SUGGEST THAT WE PICK AN AUSTRALIAN OR AN ASAIN ACTOR!
@lobbit
I didn’t make snap judgements of innocent children. I just said that in my opinion, the Queen was a very pretty toddler. This is a gossip site and people express all the time their opinion on other people’s looks. Go on the Lindsay Shookus threads and read what people have to say about her looks. If having an opinion about Charlotte’s looks and Picasso’s paintings makes me lack in common decency, then so be it. It would be great if you could enlighten me on how to look someone or something and not form on opinion regarding their beauty. I’d love to see beauty everywhere I look.