As we’ve heard from Terry Crews and Anthony Rapp, men have #MeToo stories as well. Some men are victimized, harassed, assaulted and abused by predators, not just in Hollywood, but beyond Hollywood as well. I believe that men’s stories should be included in this conversation we’re having, as a society. I also believe that we’re going to be talking more about the boys and men who have been victimized by predators in the coming days and weeks. British actor Matt Smith wants to be included in the conversation too, because he too has felt objectified:
In an interview with British newspaper The Telegraph, 35-year-old Matt Smith admitted he has met Harvey Weinstein, who is also facing several accusations of rape, and had previously heard stories of regarding questionable behaviour. He also urged that allegations of sexual misconduct be taken seriously across all industries, not just in Hollywood.
“The conversation shouldn’t stop at this industry just because these are ‘celebrities’ who we know about who are involved,” the former Doctor Who star urged. “It has to be broader.
“People in other industries have to have a platform to be heard as well. What happens to the cleaner or the lady who works in a clothes shop?,” Matt added voicing concern for those working in less glamorous positions. But while he sympathised with women, he added that the problem isn’t just limited to the female sex.
“That’s not to say I haven’t been objectified before by men, because I have – just like women are objectified. It is not exclusive to them. This happens to men, too,” he stated.
Matt is using “objectified” in a way that sounds dismissive of women’s experiences and seems like it’s derailing the conversation. He may mean “abused” or “propositioned” in his experience, but may not want to get into the details, which is understandable. I have an honest question: when men start #MeToo-ing in this particular way, does it ever feel like they’re derailing the conversation? Does it ever feel like someone saying “all lives matter” to Black Lives Matter? We know men and boys are victimized, and they have every right to tell their stories and be believed, the same as women. But… the patriarchy is real, you know?
To be clear – AGAIN – of course toxic masculinity, patriarchy, power imbalance and rape culture creates victims of men too, and of course ALL victims should feel empowered to speak and tell their stories. I guess I just worry about the false equivalencies that victimization is happening at the same level across the board with male victims, and I’m concerned that at times I feel like the subtext of this kind of interview is “we have to take it more seriously because it happens to men too, not just women.” That being said, he does speak specifically to how far-reaching the conversation should be, beyond Hollywood. I really do believe he’s trying to be an ally.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I had a man crawl into a bed with me this weekend, while I was partially clothed, because I went to a room at a party and shut the door so I could sleep. I had been deinking so I didn’t want to drive. I kicked him out and left soon after, because I no longer felt safe. These are things that as women, we pretty much “expect” to happen. It isn’t right.
So very sorry.
While at a party several years ago, my husband’s best friend and I were left alone in the room together while my husband and his best friend’s fiancée left to say goodbye to a couple that were leaving.
My husband’s best friend took that opportunity to reach in to my shirt and bra and fondle my bare breast. I was dumbfounded.
The next morning when I told my husband, his reaction was to laugh it off in a “boys will be boys” kind of way.
I will never forget.
Would your husband say the same thing today?
OMG I’m so sorry, that’s awful. It’s an awful position to be in because he and your husband are close. Shortly after my sister got engaged, her now husband’s (married) best friend slapped her bottom when they were all leaving a restaurant. After many late night conversations with my sister, and a long talk with the best friend, he ended the friendship.
I’m sorry that happened to you, Clucky. YOu probably felt safe around him before that, only to have him ruin the relationship between you. Does that continue to be your husband’s reaction?
Chucky, my heart goes out to you.,
@clucky my dad had a much younger friend-closer in age to me who ended up telling our coworkers (we worked together) that we’d slept together. We hadn’t. When I told my dad he pulled the boys will be boys thing. That was really disheartening.
When I was in college, I had a high school friend (so I thought) come with me to a sorority dance when my then boyfriend couldn’t attend. He came from a few hours away, so he stayed the night in my dorm, and was sleeping in my roommate’s bed when she was away (OK’d by her). I woke up in the middle of the night to him right next to me, jerking off, naked. I thought I had dreamed it, honestly, b/c he was so nice. Then I was doing laundry a few days later and found his ejaculation on my pajama pants. I thought, Maybe I led him on? Maybe I deserve this for bringing a different dude than my boyfriend to a dance, even as just a friend? It wasn’t rape, and I wasn’t hurt, so…it was nothing? The ways I tried to justify it then make me sick now. And even as I am typing this, I think- eh. It wasn’t anything. I probably need to just move on. But it still feels icky. I have never told my husband for fear he might have that same ,”Boys will be boys” reaction, and I don’t know how I would feel about him if he did say that.
You know as we’ve all started to share so many of these stories, I just realized that every so often I read one like yours and I’m like, oh yeah, something like that happened to me, too. Like I literally forgot until I remember that my father in law accidentally on purpose brushed his arm against my breast and left it there until I moved.
When I was about 25 and threw myself a birthday party, my neighbour’s brother came and drank too much. After nearly everyone left, he drunkenly draped himself on me; I had to get help from his brother (who was a small guy) to peel him off me and get him out the door. He kept begging to just “sleep” there in my place. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My neighbour, who had become a good friend, was so embarrassed and apologetic. They were very different.
That’s probably the least noxious thing an obnoxious man has done to me.
I am so sorry. What the hell is wrong with these scum bags?
That happened to me years ago except the “friend” walked me to the room and tried to take advantage of me while I was out of it. I’m angry and haunted by it.
I am glad you were able to defend yourself and get out of there.
Speaking of shady things that happened this weekend, I work an overnight shift in a dark, enclosed room with my male partner. Never really had a problem before. The last 20 mins of my shift, he starts pestering me to give him a back rub. I told him no (multiple times) but kept it light-hearted and tried to change the subject. Our desks are basically cubicles, so there’s rarely a reason to enter one another’s space to work together. Well what does he do? Blocks my exit from my desk, his back to me, still demanding a back rub. Right or wrong, I smacked him in the back with a book, just to get him to let me get out (bc it was time to leave). Its made me uncomfortable to think about since. But my job is a giant boy’s club, and in general, complaining about anything just puts a target on your back. I’m hoping that he realized that he crossed a line and doesn’t do it again, or otherwise, I’ll have to say something. Its so weird, bc I am quick to speak up for myself in any other situation at work. I’m almost more upset at my own discomfort and fear, like it’s my fault for not speaking up. But I’m the breadwinner for my kids, i make decent money, and I have a pension. And I can’t risk getting blackballed.
@lolalulu
That sucks. If you dont feel comfortable filing a complaint, talk to him and tell him you are not comfortable with that, please do not do it again. Keep some pepperspray in a place you can reach, just in case. If he persists, tell him you will file a complaint if he keeps it up. One of the guys at my job kept commenting on my breasts. We joke around a lot so i told him i wasn’t comfortable with it and he said he would behave. But if you don’t feel safe, i would seriously considet reporting it. Many companies take sexual harassment very seriously. If you sue, they can end up paying out big money. You don’t have to put up with that. I work in a boy’s club too, so i think approaching him directly is the best first move. See if it stops, if not, proceed from there.
I’m really sorry, Lolalulu. I’m really sorry.
I’m so very sorry- but relieved to read other women share. I wrote a #meToo on FB about the culture of a famous yoga teacher predator. In 2003 senior female teacher had pretended to want to “hang out” w me after hours, but ditched me w a male predator (a set up). I escaped at the 1st feeling of discomfort, tho it was harrowing (for me). Yesterday a retired yoga teacher told me straight up she thought my #meToo story was “whiney” and “not rape”, so why annoy everyone? I grapple w other women’s culture of victim shaming/minimizing. I am inspired by the women here who share- the courage to break out of the old paradigm is NOT EASY.
I have only once been initimately grabbed and it was by one of my husband’s work colleagues. I didn’t feel threatened, as it was in public and the guy was older and mostly about shocking. I engaged my Paddington stare and said ‘never do that again’. He went pale (I have an excellent Paddington stare) and later bought me a drink and apologised. A mutual friend was there and felt the need to report it to my husband, who was away working. He rang me and basically asked if I needed any support. When I assured him I had dealt with it and it didn’t need to be followed up, he respected what I said. My husband knows me well enough that he knew I being honest and wasn’t just trying to avoid making waves. I am not sure why I am saying this, I know it might have been very distressing for other women in that situation, but I loved the fact that my husband didn’t assume I needed a big, strong man to come to my assistance and didn’t diminish the way I had dealt with it by going in there and adding his two-penneth-worth.
RE: Derailing the conversation – It’s feels like an “all lives matter” response because it negates the full picture. Men are absolutely victims of sexual assault, harassment, abuse and that’s something that’s need to be shouted from the rooftops. However, what also needs to be included in the response is that women are disproportionately victims of such crimes. Responses should not stop at “men too.” The reason why SO MANY men are clueless to women’s experiences in regards to this matter is because they’ve never had to deal not being safe around the opposite sex or walking alone at night, or watching that they drink at a party, or being careful not to invite the wrong sexual attention with their outfit, etc.
Completely agree.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but…I don’t get the idea that he is adding to the conversation the way Terry Crews has, for instance.
«Objectified » feels dismissive. We are WAY past objectification here.
Yes, Terry Crews talked about his personal experiences while it feels like Matt Smith wagged his finger at us and gave us a lecture.
Also Terry Crewes is a black man, and black men have been objectified and hypersexualized in a very real and oppressive way. It’s a lot different than someone was once sort of creepy to you. Look what Crewes is experiencing right now. It’s systemic. He will never have the cultural protections that Matt Smith walks around with as a posh white man.
Could not agree more. In culture, women are more often reduced to appearances, told only their sex appeal matters vs their smarts, told they should be excluded from business opportunities because sexual predators are in power, see those in power abuse it without punishment for years and years, and are told they are asking for it when presenting themselves as attractive, desirable women. We don’t have a cultural picture of traditional masculinity that is remotely the same as our picture of cultural femininity. Yes, men are objectified and we should take this seriously. However, it is not considered almost a fact of being a man to be taken advantage of as an expectation, as it is for women, and this is what we need to change.
Yes yes yes exactly.
This. I very much think male victims should speak out if they can, and should be part of the conversation, but most men don’t have the same inherent fears that women do. So Matt speaking of objectification, while certainly annoying and unfair for him, is generally far less threatening for someone like him than a woman.
While I believe that women feel a disproportionate amount of the harassment and sexual objectification this is the exact type of conversation that leads to a male victims biggest fears, actually saying something. We feel like if we say something we will be reduced to someone who is brushing aside the significance of a woman’s experience. There has been hard studies that have found there are far more men being preyed upon then is known for fear of this and the emasculating effect of “men should be able to protect themselves”. The conversation has broader reaching strokes and needs to be had from all sides
I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that it’s just poor wording. I like that he’s bringing attention to the fact that this isn’t just a Hollywood problem, it’s something people experience every day across all industries. His statement did sound dismissive but I haven’t heard anything about him being awful and not an ally so benefit of the doubt for now.
We can validate every story, man or woman, girl or boy.
We can also fight the patriarchy, simultaneously, and vocalize the fear and vulnerability that women still face every day. These things are not mutually exclusive, and it’s important to not try to snuff one out to highlight the other.
Completely agree. Lest we forget that sexual assault and abuse with men is rarely discussed and acknowledged.
I think men in Hollywood are most likely propositioned a lot. Whether this happens as frequently outside of Hollywood, I have no idea. But in Hollywood? Oh heck yeah. And since that’s his frame of reference, I don’t think he’s exaggerating.
In the black community, a lot of men and boys get sexually abused. So #Metoo should count for all genders. Abuse is Abuse. I hear a lot of stories.
True but there’s a way to highlight that without dampening the experience of women. I think his intentions are right but his statement versus Terry is not great.
He could’ve highlighted toxic masculinity and how that silences male victims. There are plenty of threads there that don’t involve coopting a hashtag started by a black woman
I said something similar-ish above regarding the Terry Crewes situation. In a white heteropatriarchy black men are very much objectified. It’s like the whole Lena Dunham “why won’t Odell Beckham Jr hit on me?” fiasco. There’s an expectation of sexual availability that’s dangerous and oppressive. It’s the same system that does it to women.
As we’ve heard with the Brian Singer stories, the abusive is on both sides of the table. I don’t have a problem with him hopping on the #Metoo train to bring light to the abusive that so many men are exposed to as well.
I’m thinking the objectified bit reads a bit weird, but I think so many people are still figuring out how to talk about this stuff in the opening, so I’m trying not to judge to harshly.
Or I could be projecting Doctor Who feels on him…who knows?
When I compare Weinstein vs. Bryan Singer, I see the fundamental problem of men abusing their power, but I see them as different issues. Both are important and require action, but they should not be conflated.
Okay, but what about Kevin Spacey? Or all the reports from John Travolta (which, why aren’t people talking about him anymore? His stories were horrifying too). On a more personal end, a man I’m very close to was sexually abused as a child, and he posted #metoo and I thought it was incredibly brave (especially considering that I did not post any such thing, even though I have been sexually assaulted multiple times)
I think the conversation includes all of us. And there’s no “different issues” when it comes to sexual abuse- it’s all horrific.
Yes all sexual abuse is horrific, but if Smith is just going to lump “objectification” in with sexual assault, I call shenanigans as that is still very much a lopsided deal for women.
I know men get sexually assaulted and unwanted propositions – evidently it doesn’t affect most men enough that they have to live with that kind of fear in the back of their heads all the time like women do.
I’m Whovian until the sun burns out but Matt Smith is a tool.
Yep. Loved him as 11, but this isn’t the first time he’s shown himself to be an ass, and it probably won’t be the last.
He didn’t say men are objectified by women. That would make the statement read a little strangely. But I can believe men are objectified to a great degree by other men (i.e male executives.)
He confused the issue by using the word “objectified.” The earlier part of his statement was fine.
Exactly.
Objectified/abuse
apples/oranges
This conversation is not about objectification all by its lonesome. Terry Crewes was not objectified, he was assaulted. I’m having a hard time figuring out Matt’s wobbly-wobbly point.
I’m currently working on a case in which a woman is suing her former employer for gender discrimination. I represent the employer. She alleges that my client discriminated against her by transferring her from one department to another. Why did my client transfer her? Because after months of making sexually inappropriate comments to a male co-worker, she walked up behind him one day, put one hand on the back of his neck, holding him down in his chair, and with the other hand, reached down the front of his body and groped his crotch. There were 5 other witnesses. The room was equipped with security cameras that recorded this. She doesn’t deny doing it. Her argument is that he should be flattered and it was “just a joke.” The guy was mortified, as anyone would be. The witnesses filed the complaint. The employer promptly separated her from her victim by transferring her. She wants back at him. I’m pretty sure I’ll win this
It is rare but it does happen and the laws exist to protect everyone
She should have been fired.
If she were fired, she would win her lawsuit. I explain this over and over on these threads. Judges & arbitrators hold employers to a standard of progressive discipline, especially if there is a union. This was her first reported offense. They gave her a 1-Day suspension and the transfer so her victim doesn’t have to deal with her. And then she quit & is alleging constructive discharge. Yes, an employer can fire on a first offense but it usually has to be for something like a felony.
@lightpurple so you’re saying sexual assault is a misdemeanor? I understand progressive discipline and constructive dismissal. I’ve been in that situation. If nothing else that judges and arbitrators think sexual assault is in the same realm as screwing up on a work matter is part of the problem.
Civil versus criminal. An arbitrator on a workplace discrimination case has absolutely no jurisdiction to rule whether something is a misdemeanor or a felony. Neither does an employer or a civil court judge in an employment case. What an employer can do is put any police reports and criminal court judgment in the case file to support any discipline actions. Nobody called the police in my case so she wasn’t criminally charged. Had she been charged, the various levels of sexual assault are statutorily defined in most states. Here, if charged, she probably would have only been in jail long enough to process bail. And yes, what she did would have been a misdemeanor with a short (less than 2 years) sentence that probably would have been suspended.
Why wasn’t she fired immediately? My God.
What a pig!! Why was she not fired??
Yes it’s happens to men too, but the guys have a walk a fine line here and this article is exhibit 1. If it sounds like “yeah, ladies but we get picked on too” then that’s bad.
On the other hand, look at what’s happened to Terry Crews. His attacker served a small suspension and is back at work. There has been a deafening silence from Crews’ colleagues in support of him. He said not even his wife knew when he went to the LAPD to file the complaint but TMZ where waiting from him when he left the station. The industry is quietly rallying around Adam Venit by these actions. Terry Crews is most definitely and specifically #MeToo and yet nothing. Terry Crews has a higher profile than Anthony Rapp but you wouldn’t know it from the consequences. What could be the difference?
this exactly, what’s happening with terry crews is really heartbreaking. so many people that should be on his side have been completely silent. we have to be careful about the way we react to men coming out with their own stories so situations like terry’s aren’t repeated. they deserve the support too.
I think it’s hard to say what exactly he’s getting at here. He may very well have chosen his words poorly but it’s also important to note that there is a difference between objectification and abuse (plus everything else in that category, whatever you want to call it). This sounds too much like that whiney guy from Games of Thrones, I can’t remember his real name. Jon Snow. Who complained that he was reduced to being pretty. That’s not the same thing.
So if it’s that, shut up. If he just misspoke, I’m not going to sh*t on him for not going into detail. We haven’t heard nearly enough from men so let’s encourage them to speak up and speak out. I think we’re just all a little too on edge right now to deal with what might be a successful white dude whining. But that may also be because not enough of them have said anything.
I think that there are two conversations — the social and the personal — and they are very intertwined. There is the social issue of the treatment of women in a patriarchal society, and then there are the stories of individual women.
No group of people is a monolith, not even white males. Societal power structures may affect the statistical frequency with which certain groups of people are victimized. But I don’t think it makes an individual human being’s personal experience less painful. And for men, admitting to sexual victimization is even more loaded in some ways than it is for women because it is caught up in cultural concepts of masculinity and the perceived ability to protect oneself.
So I would never tell a man who has been victimized that he has less of a right to feel victimized because he is part of the social majority. He may not understand what it means to feel like prey just walking down a street, but it also doesn’t mean that his experiences should be dismissed as less distressing.
Men should be able to come forward and use the #MeToo if they wish. Male victims hesitate to come forward as victims of sexual violence as they fear that society will disbelieve them.
Good for him.
Men experience objectification particularly in the entertainment industry, as well as others. It does NOT diminish the experience of women when they come forward as well.
And it’s not just men who predate. Women can and do, too. Just because it isn’t reported doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Ugh…I was prepared to be very annoyed by this post after seeing Moore being outright supported by the Republican party this morning on CNN, but I’m more torn than anything else because this may be an issue of interpretation rather than poor intent. Yes, absolutely, victims should be able to come forward regardless of class, gender, sex, race, age, etc. However, there is definitely a power dynamic that strongly favors and protects men in patriarchal institutions, which shouldn’t be ignored. I would hope Matt Smith is aware of that and his intent was to suggest harassment is equal in terms of its individual impact but not in the sense of how its socially perceived and enabled.
I agree we need to talk about sexual abuse of all genders but his statement sounds a little #allmen for me. Also women are not just talking about objectification, that is completely different then sex abuse/harassment.
There is a ring of homophobia in his suggestion that it is only men who can objectify other men, gay men are allowed to find other men attractive even if they are straight. NO ONE is allowed to sexually harass anyone with impunity. Woman or Man, gay or straight.
Yes men and boys are victims of sexual abuse and assault, and it’s no less horrific when it happens to them.
I do have a problem with men who throw this information out there in a way that dismisses and minimizes the realities that women and girls face, however.
The reach of the abuse is simply unequal, as over 80% of children who are sexually abused are girls and 90% of rape victims are also female.
That’s super funny he says this, he got his start on Doctor Who with a showrunner who has been near constantly criticized for objectifying women and for writing sexists storylines.
I agree with Matt Smith. Men are objectified too. How many times have I heard women make crude comments about a man’s ass. Or the size of a man’s hands or his feet in relation to a man’s penis size. Or “checking out” a man’s crotch. Or such and such man is only good for “one thing” meaning sex. Treating each other with respect is what it is all about. Badly needed worldwide.
It happens to both sexes and should be acknowledged as such. So many become abusers themselves and the cycle continues. And survivors, such as myself live with the memories and they never go away, no matter how deeply we try to bury them.
We live in a world where rampant sexual predation has become the norm which is absolutely disgusting.
I’ve had too many horrific incidents in my short life. Most I remember too vividly. And I’m one of the lucky few who still are able to function in society and live semi-normal lives. It took years of self destructive behaviour to realise I was still suffering.
My heart aches for every man, woman, boy and girl who are living this horrible reality today and have lived it in the past, whether they survived or not.
I will not pit the sexes against each other to see who has it worse because any abuse is abhorrent.
-N
If you have been objectified Matt Smith it is NOT the same as being touched sexually without your permission. This makes me mad for people who are victims of Harvey and similar. If something has happened to you I am sorry but if you are not ready to talk about it don’t but using that word makes it seem like it’s not that horrifying. Upset on this monday morning.
It isn’t the same as touching or even rape, both of which Harvey is accused of. But if he was made to feel uncomfortable by a man or a woman, it’s still sexual harassment. Men are reluctant to speak out about it for fear of being seen as less masculine. They’re dismissed or ridiculed for “letting” a woman do that to them. When it’s done by another man, I think it’s just as jarring to them as it would be to a woman.
Okay, come on now. He does have a point about objectification and harassment. Unwanted attention is unwanted attention, regardless of who it’s coming from. It’s not acceptable for women to make advances and unwelcome comments. The power dynamic is certainly different, which is why I think a lot of people shrug it off as flirtation, and why men are reluctant to speak out about it when it happens to them.
#MeToo is not about recounting instances of “objectification”. It is about sexual harassment and assault that women, specifically because and only because they are female, experience. He is missing the point. Also, I would venture to say very few if any men know what it is to live daily from the age of 10 with the calculation of how you can live in the world safely without being sexually assaulted or harassed.
I actually think it’s positive when men share their experiences being objectified. Obviously women get the blunt of this problem, but it is a social problem, dismissing people’s humanity is not good in any case. And for us women to demand what’s right, we also need to show we are against double standards.
1 in four women have been assaulted, they say. That is likely a conservative estimate. I have read that one in six boys are assaulted or raped.
our culture is one in which women are forced to cope with an atmosphere of sexualization. Men are not sexualized – at least, white men aren’t. But they are not allowed to be sensitive or vulnerable either. Rape and assault is a whole other ballgame for men and boys. It is very common, i believe. There is no dialogue permitted. To be vulnerable, in all its connotations, is a woman’s perogative. Men repress their troubling experiences, griefs, fears. They learn that early- and that is why boys are easier targets. Pedophiles know this – probably through having experienced it themselves.
I think that Hollywood is a place where men are “objectified” and sexual harassed far more than other industries. I don’t think we should dismiss what men in Hollywood are saying. Look at Cory Feldman, look at Bryan Singer, look at Terry Crews. Matt’s view is going to rub people wrong because they aren’t in the industry, and he sees things in a very different light. Also he was part of the Big Tumblr Three, and if there’s a place where men are absolutely objectified, it’s Tumblr.
Here’s the thing: patriarchy sucks for everyone. For men and boys, too, who are limited in what society allows masculinity to look like, in the full range of human emotions and experiences, and in the ability to form meaningful relationships with women and other men. And a whole host of other crappy ways. I’m acutely aware of this as a feminist mom of a son (and a second baby boy on the way).
BUT!!!!! The ways men suffer and are limited are not even close to the kinds of damage and violence women encounter in patriarchy. If you want to be an ally of women, the way you do that is not by shouting “What about the poor menz!!”
There is a world of difference between rape, abuse, harrasment and being objectified. He seems not to understan the difference. Everyone is objectified in today’s society in some way. The whole Western culture relies on looks and appearances. There may be a time to have that conversation bit do not take away this momentum from both – women AND men who actually were harrased, abused or raped with your talk of “oh me too felt so vulnerable when someone expicitly commented on my looks” because this is how he makes this sound.
I hope the lot of you naysayers don’t have sons. rape and abuse don’t know gender. Boys are easier targets.
Remember how easy it is to fog out your own asaults or abuse. It is much easier for men to do that – they shut down their own ability to cry so early.
men rape too easily. Why do you think that is?
Are you talking about people on Here? Because non of the comments are naysayers.
I agree a lot of the current conversation reminds me that I need to teach my son about these lessons as well, of sexual assault, of bad/good touch, or harassment.
Unless you’ve woken up to find some producer’s penis inside you, take a chair, son.