Senator Al Franken resigned & I don’t get why people are like “this sends a bad precedent.” The precedent is that if you’re a serial sexual harasser/abuser, you will lose your job. That’s the way it should be! [Pajiba]
I kind of don’t hate this Armani dress on Cate Blanchett. [Go Fug Yourself]
I don’t think Charlie Hunnam & Garrett Hedlund look alike at all! Garrett is much better looking, honestly. [LaineyGossip]
Lindsay Lohan is still dreaming of a Mean Girls sequel. [Dlisted]
Matt Lauer is just going to sexually harass golf carts from now on. [The Blemish]
Katharine McPhee has a case of thirst. [Moe Jackson]
Matt Lauer will probably get divorced in 2018. [Wonderwall]
The Duggar-Dillard family is still transphobic, just FYI. [Starcasm]
Marriage looks good on Kenya Moore, says Sheree Whitfield. [Reality Tea]
Good. I hope this finally shuts up the contingent who argued that his initial accuser was lying because she’s conservative or that the others just misinterpreted a hug or some bs like that. He did it, and even on his way out, he kept up the denials and the gaslighting. Go away, dude, and I hope none of us ever have to hear from you again.
And a thanks to this site and kaiser for being so clear that he deserves to go. Sadly, I have been let down lately by some liberal or progressive voices I respected who hemmed or equivocated on this, so I appreciate the consistency I get here on CB.
I’m a liberal Minnesotan and I am NOT happy to see him resign. Let the investigation come to its conclusion before roasting him. So far the two named accusers have some less than credible claims – for one, Tweeden claimed he wrote the skit just so that he could kiss her, but the skit has been performed that way since the early two thousands. She has appeared in RT. The other accuser claimed he groped her – with his hand on her waist for a photo. Roger Stone tweeted about Al Franken being in trouble before news broke. Forgive me if I smell a swiftboating.
Franken has been a strong supporter for women and democracy in the senate. This is not a good thing as the Republicans wil never, ever play by rules we set out. A
liberal Minnesotan too and I tend to agree with you
I understand the reasoning of his fellow Democratic Senators that pushed him to resign. I dispute those though that glibly say another Democrat will eventually take his place once the special election is held in 2018 (although of course the current Dem Gov will ‘temporarily’ appoint a Democrat until the election). Minnesota is trending Republican Red.
I’m sorry, but those are grasping excuses. First, there are 8 accusers. Even if 2 of them exaggerated, what do you make of the other 6? Dude is a serial sexual predator no matter how you slice it.
And I personally don’t give a cap about what he’s “done for women” in the Senate. Know what part of being a supporter of women is? Treating the individual women you encounter with respect and humanity. That’s like the base of everything else. You don’t get to cash in your brownie points to be a sleaze. “Oh, you vote pro choice? That entitles you to 2 free gropes, sir!” No. It doesn’t work that way. Until we get past mealy mouthed excuses like these, this stuff will keep happening.
I think Ryan is beginning to get a clue. He convinced Joe Barton not to seek re-election and convinced Trent Franks to resign. It’s a first step.
I am very unhappy about this. I really think the deplorables went in for the kill. I don’t trust every woman on these allegations as I think this is a Republican agenda. I wish he had stood strong and not resigned at this point.
Jayna, uh, you’re aware that several of the accusers identify as strong liberals, right? Like, they went to the events to meet him because they were admirers of him. But please, maintain your belief in a vast right wing conspiracy.
Very, very upset about this. He was a fighter for liberal, social justice, the little people causes.
“I of all people am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party,”
– Al Franken
Natalia, I’m sorry but I have no time for his whataboutism. We all know Trump is a predator, and Moore is too. But right now, the Republicans lack the will (or morals) to right their own party. The dems can only insure that their party is held to the higher standard. Al just sounds pissed that he has to go first. Trump didn’t make him do those things and trump has no bearing on the consequences Franken should face.
@Megan, you are giving Ryan too much credit. If he had a clue, he would open an investigation into the allegations against Trump or call for Trump’s resignation. He’s just covering his butt for when he is accused of not doing anything about Trump.
@Lightpurple I think Ryan is smart enough to recognize that he needs to retain the moral high ground while McConnell dithers over Moore. Two Republican congresswomen are calling for Farenthold to resign. It will be interesting to see if Ryan joins them.
@Sam the pink.
Nope. Not grasping excuses at all. I remember what happened to John Kerry in the 2004 election, do you? What happened to Al Franken was #metoo, weaponized. And in fact for Republicans it’s a multi-bladed sword: a good Democratic senator ousted AND when facts come to light that this was likely a good old fashioned Roger Stone orchestrated rat snuggle (ill let you fill in the actual word), doubt for all future accusers.
Leann Tweeden is a Trumpster, through and through. (Dunno if this link is acceptable per the site guidelines https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesFourM/status/939015600482816000 ) The gal who claimed that Franken was grasping her behind during a photo taken by her husband is an evangelical. And if you think the GOP won’t stoop to sending operatives pretending to be Franken supporters, then you don’t know what rat snuggling is. If the six other accusers want to stay anonymous, that is their right. But justice should have been permitted to be done and it was NOT. All of the Democratic senators and representatives who called for Franken to be ousted before an investigation was done will be getting a politely irate phone call or email or both from me.
@Betsy, right on.
Betsy, at this point your excuse making is becoming laughable. You are suggesting that, first, the initial accuser should not be believed because she is a conservative. This, despite the fact that she tells a story very similar to a later accuser and she has that photo which shows him demeaning her. Second, you argue that the other 7 might be republican “operatives” sent in to trap this poor man (despite the fact that such a setup would immediately go to the cops or media instead of, you know, waiting years). It is your contention that GOP “operatives ” went to his events, got their pictures taken, and many months or even years later, decide to lie about being groped. At this stage, I question your ability to engage in such impressive mental gymnastics. (I also presume that you give the same weight to the idea that Roy Moore may be a victim of a similar plot from the other side).
@Betsy & Jayna. They got two of the most liberal-Franken and Conyers-so who’s next?
I read that Tweeden was a birther, also. Here she is grinding and groping both stars and service men on USO tours.
http://sludgefeed.com/photos-leeann-tweeden-sexually-assaulting-various-men/
Did you see Tom Arnold’s Tweet? He is friends with her, and he said she had been coached for weeks by Roger Stone and then there were anonymous claims and a photo that doesn’t show what the accuser said? He said he thought she was going to help all women and he was disappointed in her. I have no idea if it is true and I will never know now.
I have always maintained believe the women, but I have also supported investigations so that we can set guidelines and procedures.
Why not just have the investigation and create ethics guidelines and transparency so that a working system is in place for other cases. Then no one can claim they didn’t get a fair investigation; the accusers get their story out and then we can clean serious house.
Nothing is gained for the movement but this backlash is real, and this COULD hurt the campaign. You can’t fire someone who asks for an investigation? Especially someone who had been an actual progressive and a bulldog going after Sessions, Gorsuch, he exposed sexual abuse in the military and on and on.
This is how a movement gets into the weeds and loses the point.
Al Franken was forced out by his own party. Do you really think they would oust one of their most visible and popular members — and risk angering their base — if he was merely the target of a Republican sting operation? Women on the Hill were quick to believe his accusers, which makes me think more were coming.
I’m not happy about this Franken situation, either. But if he has to go, then the rest need to, also. My guess is over half of Congress has a history of inappropriate behavior, how far back shall we look? Plus 45. The Liar In Chief has no conscience. Get rid of them all. If Roy Moore gets elected, then that says a lot about the Republican Party. They’ve already endorsed that ass-hole, but if he get elected, then it’s high time we clean house on both sides of the isle, in the White House, in the federal government, and elsewhere in society.
I think he should have gone through an investigation as well, but that’s because I think more and more would have popped up and vindicated the claims of these women. Might have finally convinced commenters like you. Standing up for the rights of women is something many of the worst predators, including Weinstein, have done, and should play no part in considering whether the claims of multiple women are true. Also, they weren’t just reporting an arm around a waist. There were multiple forced tongue kisses and grabbing of secondary features.
@Sam the pink. Please, by all means, keep insulting my intelligence.
Look into Roger Stone’s history. Look up rat snuggling. Know that yes, operatives do that stuff literally all the time in politics – look up pics of Cassandra Fairbanks with various pols. You save it for when you need it.
I say again: Al Franken has been a strong voice for women, minorities and for democracy. He wasn’t backing down on Trump Russia. I guess I’m glad to be a bogeyman for those who think I’m an apologist for sexual assault (I’m not), but that’s not the issue at hand here. There was no earthly reason that the investigation should not have been finished before his colleagues began calling for his head. Republicans will never, ever be an honorable party.
@Betsy It doesn’t matter if the Republicans will never be honorable. What matters is that Democrats are honorable even when it is hard, even when it calls for sacrifice, and even when it hurts. I am very sorry to see Franken go, but I am not sorry that Democrats have taken a zero tolerance stance.
It is not just that Tweeden is a conservative that gave people pause, it’s that she was an extreme right wing voice and close to Sean Hannity. I wouldn’t put anything past Hannity at this point. I think it’s disingenuous to say people discredited her because she is conservative. She has a connection to Hannity and Stone and that’s why people questioned her.
But oh well, Franken did the right thing by stepping down after other senators called on him to. I guess I have to turn in my feminist card because I’m skeptical of the timing and motivation behind these allegations. That picture doesn’t prove anything btw. She is wearing kevlar and could have very well been joking around with Franken.
I am sorry that he had to resign. I felt that it was his right to follow the rule of law and endure a proper investigation as he requested.
I do feel that he got railroaded to some extent.
They should have gone through with proper procedures in Congress before demanding he resign. He needed a fair hearing and he should have faced his accusers, especially the anonymous ones who chimed in late.
It would have been only fair.
it would be wise to wait for investigation to come to its conclusion , before ROASTING him .a full-scale invastigation is always required for suchlike cases ,especially when personal career and image are at stake
He was caught up in a reactionary purge. Another attempt by the DNC to take the high road and driving straight off a cliff. There has to be a line. If you harass someone at work, you must go. If your alleged behavior outside work is illegal, as in there is a specific statute of law you could be charged under, you must go. If you are obnoxiously gropey and handsy , wait for the ethics investigation. That is a clear and reasonable and non reactionary line everyone, both sides, can follow.
+1
+2
There must be due process.
Sam, I agree with you and everyone else who thought he should resign. People are making excuses for him and wearing blinders because he’s a Democrat. If it were Ted Cruz in that photo and 7 other women made allegations against him almost everyone in these comments would be complaining that he should step down.
I also get annoyed at the conspiracies that this is a hit job. You know who else uses that excuse? Accused republicans and their followers. I’m so disappointed with the excuses I’ve seen on social media. He could have denied everything and used the innocent until proven guilty line, but he didn’t. He knows he was wrong and that’s why he apologized. Something Trump or Moore have never done.
Person3514: Agree w you and Sam the pink. It was right that he resigned. WE should hold Democrats to higher, more humane standards. Besides, there are enough hypocrites in both parties as it is.
No, I wouldn’t. I would think he had a right to an investigation. I am about changing the systems and getting more women elected. If it were your family member, you would want an investigation. That isn’t too much for anyone to ask.
I would support any person to face his accusers. Especially since 5 of his accusers were anonymous. I don’t put any credence in anonymous accusations. Give your name or go away.
erm, No. There are more than 2 accusers, and there are credible accusations. He himself has said he did some of those things “as a joke”, so that means He Did Those Things. So what if he’s done good stuff for women as a group? It’s like some of the liberal Mississippians I’m around every day: they feel supportive toward blacks as a group, but they still say and do racist things to the individual black people they interact with. That’s still racism, and Franken is still an abuser and harasser of 8 women so far.
Who are they? What are the cases?
An investigation was reasonable.
Now that Franken is gone, maybe you can get to work on Jabba the Hut Farenholt.
http://twitter.com/pocketpuppy1970/status/938936259518529537
Lord! What a horror show! He owes us 85,000 dollars.
He’ll just be replaced by another equally repulsive Republican out of Texas. From some of the stories that have come out, it sounds like the Texas legislature isn’t a very welcome place to be either an elected representative of either party or a staffer.
I’m sorry to nitpick but Al Franken did not do any “Gaslighting” around the accusations. Pleeease watch the wonderful, classic black and white movie Gaslight (starring a luminous Ingrid Bergman) to learn how to use this word properly. Gaslighting has been catching on as an “it” word but it seems hardly anybody has seen the movie or really knows what it means… It’s driving me CRAZY!
Thanks, crazydaisy. I always show it in my film class; it holds up well.
Look it up – gaslighting is when somebody tries to make a victim question their memory or mental state. “I don’t remember it that way” is a classic technique to try to make a victim question her own recall of events. If you are unfamiliar with that, perhaps you should research it before commenting.
Who is the victim he gaslighted? Not Tweeden. So who said this?
Ummm….all of them? Perhaps he has a tough time keeping them all straight? There are, after all, at least 8 of them.
All of them. Have you personally spoken to anonymous accusers?
I disagree; Gillibrand is a horrible opportunist and she led this mob to call for his removal.
I guess we in the USA no longer believe in due process? We just threw this man, who himself suggested an ethics inquiry, under the bus over accusations that were no where as serious as those of other men who are still there: Trump and Moore. And 5 of those accusations were anonymous. I give no credence to anonymous accusations unless it a minor making the charge.
I changed my party affiliation from Dem to IND over this.
I am so freaking sick of the politicization of sexual harrassment, sexism, and abuse. Facing facts — men of all political persuasions are guilty of it, men of all political persuasions have been caught, and men of all political persuasions are sometimes held accountable……and sometimes not.
There is no real factual honest political predictor in any of the above. Accountability is random and your assessment of same is likely tied to your own political tribalism.
“I’m so glad my harasser (abuser) is a Democrat! (Or republican)”—said no woman ever.
It shouldn’t be politicized at all. But now it is. And women will be the losers when a racist pedophile goes to DC to make legislation and vote on Justices we will lose.
Talk about politicized: I can’t wait to see what Gillibrand when a red state Dem senator is accused of sexually crimes.
Hypocrite that she is, she will say, “Let him have his hearing!!”
And she has her eye on POTUS 2020. Dems on twitter, facebook, etc are furious with her. She is lucky if she holds onto her Senate seat. I will never vote for her again. I will write in Franken.
….and the tribes just nod and then double down ……
The #metoo movement and the Justice for victims is nothing unless Republicans (especially Republican women) take this stand too. I am glad the time has come for culture to change, but so far the conundrum is that reducing numbers of Democrats only bolsters the Trump/Bannon position of power who would do everything to keep women in the dark ages in addition to their laundry list of bigotry and hate towards immigrants, Muslims and minorities. The Republicans need to acknowledge this seachange and hold Roy Moore, Clarence Thomas and that awful awful joke of a president accountable too! But they are not, and they are going to stay in power at this rate.
Taking the high road with cheaters only gives them a better chance to dig the path out from beneath you. This is a tense time 🙁
Hopefully common sense will pull through.
Look at it this way. By taking such a tough stand with their own, Democrats can scream bloody murder about Moore without being dismissed as giant hypocrites. Hopefully that makes a difference in the last few days before the election in Alabama. But if he’s elected, and it’s looking like he very well could be, they will hang him – and the pu$$y grabbing POTUS – around the neck of every Republican in office or who wants to run for office. Every GOP candidate will have to carry that taint into their election campaigns for the next few years. At some point that has to make a difference with voters. Right? (she asks hopefully)
Jetlagged, you make one of my major points so well. Democrats, my party for all my adult life, risked being labeled as hypocrites. Every TV debate, every internet site, every FOX show would have used Franken as the poster boy for Dem hypocrisy. For God’s sake, conservatives are going back to Bill Clinton for ammunition!!
This is really the only bright side of this situation IMO.
jetlagged, yes. And chances are it will get worse before it gets better for the Dems if Moore wins and Minnesota swings red. I’ve been thinking for a couple days that his resignation is the right move. And I was glad to hear the guys on Pod Save America are on the same page. As they said, “zero tolerance has to mean zero tolerance.”
As painful as this is I gotta believe it will eventually pay off in the long run, as Democrats are seen as having been on the right side of history.
MN won’t swing red I don’t think. The Dem governor will appoint a Dem to replace Franken I’m sure–probably Keith Ellison or Tina Smith. The seat will be targeted in 2018 by the GOP for sure but I cannot imagine Minnesotans electing a Repub. I hope I’m right though…anything is possible these days in Upsidedown Land.
@Kitten I am in Minnesota and unfortunately I can easily imagine Minnesotans electing a Republican. Clinton beat Trump here by 1.5%. That aint a lot.
This is also the state that elected Jesse Ventura governor once….just sayin’ 😉
You can’t shame people who have no shame. James Woods was cackling on Twitter and laughing his azz off. The seat will be competitive that has been said all morning and possibly lost. If Moore wins too then, they will be able to push anything through.
MN is not California or New York or Vermont.
Another instance of not thinking of the long game and reacting to the GOP thinking they actually give a shiz and throwing one of your own away without even giving the guy an investigation he asked for?
Now he is gone so what significant changes happened because of it?
I thought this was about the balance of power and empowering victims of sexual assault and sexual harassment in the workplace? We need to change the culture and attitudes not create confusion and refusing to see nuances and degrees.
So the guy who made it so that rape victims don’t have to pay for their own rape kits is gone?
I wanted to get an ethics system in place, and then the GOP would be forced to be investigated, payouts exposed and 45 taken down. But that is out of the window now. I wanted his victims to have a say publicly.
@Kitten It’s also the state the sent Michelle Bachmann to the House (a very gerrymandered district with the western suburbs of Minneapolis and the very conservative St. Cloud).
magnoliarose, I think everything you said makes sense. But at this moment, there’s no room for nuance or degrees. People like James Woods, as you mentioned, are incapable of recognizing that. As unfair as it is, the right would still scream hypocrisy if Franken stayed.
I think subtler distinctions will come later and this was the only solution that would resonate with voters. Maybe not with the people who matter right now, not yet, but eventually.
Remember that Minnesotans have voted for Democratic presidential candidates ever since 1976, more times consecutively than any other state outside of the south, and longer than any state.
Let’s try to stay positive guys. No need to jump to doom and gloom yet.
The GOP are laughing at us. On Twitter, they are literally laughing. They have no intention of removing Trump or even having an ethics hearing on him. ONce again, the Dems took the knife the GOP gave us, and stabbed ourselves. And we are dealing with life and death and the destruction of our democracy with this cabal in power.
I’m sick over this.
Dems can say we took the high road, but like others have said, the GOP is cackling at this. They will never turn on Trump and most of them won’t admit that Moore is a predator. So at the end of the day, I wish an ethics investigation had been called on Franken.
I could give two lukewarm sh*ts if the GOP is laughing at us, nothing is ever going to redeem liberals in the mind of a deplorable – so who cares. This is bigger than Moore, and even Trump. What I care about, and what I pray will make an actual difference, is that the 40% of eligible voters (MILLIONS of people) who stayed home on election day 2016 will decide to get off the bench and into the game. But if all they see is bottom-dwellers on both sides, then why would they bother? They’ll just stay home – again.
Jetlagged you have hit on exactly what makes me woefully sad about this whole thing: while this is oversimplifying, I do think Democrats care about consistency of their values and behaviors, which I was brought up to think of as a good thing, possibly at the expense of opening the door for a party who doesn’t care if you call them hypocrites, doesn’t hold themselves or their leaders to ethical behavior, doesn’t care one bit the electorate that put them in office (based on this disaster of a tax bill), doesn’t care how you label them as long as they’re in power. The GOP is gutting our democracy. And as for Ryan maintaining the moral high ground, my God, how low can we set the bar? Franken’s behavior is not excusable, but please give him credit for resigning and please remember the GOP tactic of “distract and dismember”. Because that’s what’s happening to our democracy.
It won’t happen. Kirsten is from my state, and she turned against HRC when a few weeks ago she tried to retry the Clinton case in public even though the Clintons were her original supporters. Wall Street backs her, and she is not beloved in many circles.
There is no moral high ground in politics only positive legislation and laws that change lives in positive directions. Nothing matters if they can strip reproductive rights away and close Planned Parenthood. They do not care about protests, and they have no shame. We need laws and judges, so millions of women of every background are helped who have no power or voices.
@Esmom, Dems in NY are furious at Gillibrand. Go look at her twitter feed, her Facebook page or the response to the fluff piece on her on Politico. She misjudged this badly.
The way it’s going Trump is going to win a second term in office.
His statement made me feel like I was swallowing a booger, thick nasty. Joke of a nonpology, and I really expected better. Sorry dickhead, it isn’t irony that has allowed dump and Moore place at the table. It’s the same system you benefited from and abused.
I’m not even American and his apology made me see red!
His whole, “Women deserve to be heard (as long as their recollection of events is in line with mine and as long as they let me define for them what harassment really is – btw it’s not what I do, it’s what the other guy does)” shtick was infuriating.
And, ““I of all people am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office, and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party,”. Yes, Mr. Franken, oh the irony! I cannot imagine what it must be like to be held to a higher standard of behaviour and judged more harshly than the other guy. Please, tell us all about it Mr. Straight White Man so that we can all revel in the horrible, tragic, irony of it all.
Ugh. He can go fvck himself with a barbed wire dildo.
Good.
And Trump is next right? Oh wait, republicans are above the law arent they? Sorry, I’m Norwegian so I dont know the ins and outs of US laws..
No, you may be Norwegian but you’re still right. The US is still going to be stuck with the pussy grabbing, slurring, strangely orange orangutan of a POTUS…until we can get him the hell out of office.
Because Republicans really do believe they are above the law (see also Roy Moore).
The machine that swept Trump into office will make sure he doesn’t resign – unless they want him to. Surely not for this stuff “it’s only women complaining.”
Not one of those Dem women who demanded Franken resign have demanded Trump resign. Not one.
They are opportunists, and they just got rid of an opponent who may have run in 2020.
I know, and that is what hurts me the most. She is not a favorite anyway and won’t win jack now. I think all of those women are going to find a robust progressive wall in 2020 and it includes my bae Kamala. Not by men but by women especially if his seat goes red.
All the female senators asked him to resign. You think all 16 of them are opportunistic? I can’t believe how far some people would go to defend an old white man. Btw the latest accuser was a democratic staffer and was probably someone other senators was familiar with.
What is her name? Do you know anything about the case? I don’t so I can’t say one way or the other.
ALL politicians are opportunists and if you listen to what anyone is saying it is to have an investigation; there are no apologists. They would not have done this if the governor were a Republican so therefore this is not about the movement or morals which makes it opportunist.
It is MN, so chances of a WOC or POC taking his place is zero. Maybe Michelle Bachmann (or someone like her) can make a comeback. You bet she would use the movement for her benefit and could win. If this were the guarantee, I just wonder what anyone would think then.
Magnolia, Kamala Harris also demanded he resign.
🙁
@Hannah, I do think some of them were motivated by ambition. Others are pushing for a purity test, which is fine, but why couldn’t Franken face his accusers? Especially since 5 of them were anonymous. They would have had to testify under oath? I guess Dem senators no longer believe in due process, huh?
I can respect that he stepped down. I do wish we could have made a deal to where if Al stepped down, one of the GOP who’d been accused of assault or harassment would have to step down as well.
A person can dream.
My family adored Franken. He championed all of the issues we hold dear, especially LGBT rights. However, if the Democratic Party is to have any chance of claiming the moral high ground, Franken had to go. Politics? Yes, that’s the profession in which the people involved are engaged, with all its exquisite and terrible ironies and unfairness. Progressives have to build a credible foundation if we have any hope of taking down the Trumps and Moores.
The (Im)Moral Majority will always support the GreedyOldParty of the Fatcats, screw the little people, the Fifties were great for White Men crew.
Yes, I tried to express something similar above but as usual you said it much better than I could. 🙂
Jerusha, what do you think as the Alabama race goes into the final stage?
Hopeful, but it’s up in the air. Which is saying a lot. The last time a Dem was elected to national office from AL was in the Eighties. We usually don’t even have any running and wasting money. Last week, before the RNC jumped back into the cesspool with Pedo and POS, it was reported that Doug had raised $9 million+ to Child Molestor’s $1 million+.
Now, a less crazy Repub has entered the race as a write-in. Don’t know who he’ll siphon from, although an unscientific poll from our leading local station had -4% RM and -1%DJ.
As I’ve pleaded before-pray, chant, burnt offerings, whatever, Everybody.
I think this only divided the left even more.
But there is nothing I can do but hope his seat doesn’t go to a Republican. I hear Stone has a few more on his hit list. Now you can’t go back on this way of doing things, and anonymous accusers are enough. If you investigate then, Franken supporters will be angry, if you don’t then you lose another Senator.
They will pick someone with a Republican governor. If Pence gets in then the never Trumpers will return and maybe get a supermajority. If that happens, then they will go after gay rights and reproductive rights.
Stack the courts further and maybe get two more Supreme picks.
They will just shove anything through they want.
I guess it will be whatever it will be. They seem to get what they want so who knows. *shrug*
I agree. Before this I was ALWAYS of the mindset to err on the side of caution and believe all women. But the timing of this, in the midst of the Roy Moore campaign, Tweeden’s connection to Hannity and Stone, the evangelical ties of the second accuser and the anonymity of the others makes the whole thing sound like a hit job. I think Tweeden knew she had that picture and knew how it could be construed. I’m so over the sanctimony of some liberals. Probably the same people who are upset at Taylor Swift and Megyn Kelly being in the Time Person of Year issue. The right plays dirty. They are not above something like this. But you do you on that high horse ladies.
So your family doesn’t believe in due process? Fair hearings? Just run him out on a rail??
Seems like that is the new Dem party.
It’s the only moral thing that should have happened, but I’m not happy about it, and I’m angry that I’m not happy about it because I know the potential political cost. And that’s frustrating to know that part of being female in this country is not being able to trust men – even those that are supposed to be on the “progressive” side – to be decent people. It’s frustrating to know that political support always has to come with that caveat. In some ways, I’m angrier at Franken than I am Moore because the latter is honest about being a misogynistic pig. Franken was supposed to be somebody you hoped you could trust on these issues, who supported legislation that benefited many of the same groups I inhabit.
I think there are many women who feel the way you do, Veronica. It is so difficult. My best to you.
Franken resigned. Fine. However, both Mitch McConnell and Lisa Murkowski demanded his resignation. Both have been silent, not even calling for an investigation, on the allegations against their party’s standard bearer Donald Trump. Both need to be called on their hypocrisy. Repeatedly. Constantly. Both need to explain why they are not demanding Trump’s resignation
They won’t care. Why would they? There is no benefit for them.
Here’s my problem with the Franken resignation: Democrats can be shamed. It appears that republicans aren’t so easily shamed. At all. So if he’s being forced to resigned to make a point to republicans it looks like it’s wasted effort to me. So yeah maybe he had to resign on merit (I don’t know enough to judge and none of this went through official channels) but if they’re trying to tell republicans this is how it’s done and now you have to handle it this way? It won’t have one bit of effect on Moore or Trump.
I hear you but isn’t being shamed a good thing? As tempting as it might be to just take their dirty playbook and run with it, we can’t let the Republicans’ lack of integrity and good faith become the new normal. As much as it might hurt to be on the “losing” side of some races now, we have to have faith that reason and sanity and truth and justice will eventually prevail.
It would be if our moral purity didn’t keep us losing all the time. When is enough enough? Rat snuggling like this, as our court picks languished – including Obama’s Merrick Garland seat!, allowing gerrymandering…. we always get ground down and the shame free party has no problem gleefully dancing on our ashes.
I know. But what do you suggest then? Giving up, disregarding all the pillars of democracy, taking the low road and basically giving lies, propaganda and “fake news” legitimacy?
That is the frustration Esmom. I think an investigation (I know I am a parrot) would have achieved the high road and not throwing a strong person under the bus without a say. Anonymous accusers can never be enough. That isn’t justice for anyone.
Victims should also have their say.
People are leaving the party, and there was already anger under the surface that was beginning to heal. I am an Independent, but I recognize we need a healthy Democratic party to get things done. Just as I am typing this, a prominent local Dem left the party over this. I received the text just now. Sigh.
I understand what you are saying though. Sigh some more.
@esmom – given the public accusers’ links to the far right as well as Stone gloating ahead news breaking and an investigation not getting completed, we did kind of let fake news win the day here.
While Trump and his GOP enablers are dismantling our democracy and pushing to get rid of Mueller, calling the FBI the KGB and giving kids health dollars to billionaires, Gillibrand, Harris and Dem senators spent the day pushing someone who agreed to an ethics investigation instead of going after GOP.
I wish the Dems weren’t such cowards all of the time. Gillibrand refused to answer a point blank question about whether Trump should resign. She is ambitious and the worst opportunist. She is not our savior, she is all about herself.
I left the Dem party over this. I’m now an Ind. I will NEVER vote for Gillibrand again. I hope she is primaried.
I am praying that if Moore wins, Franken refuses to resign and demands the ethics hearing.
I’m absolutely more angry at Franken because he played for our team.
I believed he was a good and honest man. Did I expect a bone or two in the closet of a former SNL comic, sure. Maybe some coke etc. What I didn’t expect was handfuls of sexual assault.
I want politicians my son can emulate. Is that so hard?
Sexual assault is not Franken’s crime. Inappropriate touching is. There is a difference, and both are wrong.
My hope is that we as a society will use all of these events, allegations and brave #metoo stories to create a clear outline of the Sexual Misconduct Continuum. Inappropriate touching is at one end. Forcible rape, violent assault and child molestation are on the other. There’s a lot of space between these two ends of the spectrum to fill in. ALL ARE WRONG. That is the point.
Once we understand the spectrum, we can start to decide what punishment meets what crime. For instance, current US laws are sickeningly light on rape. A violent rape conviction, imo should get you life in prison, treated as equal to murder. What Al Franken did? Kind of not equal to murder. And still wrong.
Dear non-lawyer;
Franken committed sexual assault. Assault in the law is defined as an unwanted physical contact. Sexual assault is defined as am unwanted touching of a Sexual nature. Touching a person’s rear without consent is Sexual assault.
Sincerely,
A lawyer who thinks you ought to Google this stuff before you talk about it
I’m a lawyer and you fellow lawyer might declare he committed SA – but you should well know he has not been charged nor has he been convicted of SA. It takes more than a lawyer saying someone committed a crime to make it so. Sincerely, Another Lawyer.
p.s. I don’t disbelieve that Franken did these things. I understand the elements of a criminal charge of sexual assault. I just don’t think it is cool to try to shut down this discussion by saying I’m a lawyer and I declare this person committed a specific crime.
There are other victims of sexual assault who do not agree with you. You should not have the same punishment for a rapist as you do for someone who is accused of touching someone inappropriately.
Since you are a lawyer I am confident you would have wanted this to be investigated, so all parties have their voices heard.
“I just don’t think it is cool to try to shut down this discussion by saying I’m a lawyer and I declare this person committed a specific crime.”
Amen.
My feelings about this whole thing are a jumbled mess, basically a combination of opposing opinions on this thread. As much as I wish I could just commit to a stance, I’ve resigned myself to the fact that I’ll never have a firm understanding of what was the right thing to do.
magnoliarose, Here’s the thing. Under normal circumstances, ie pre-Trump, an investigation would have made sense. I thought it made sense when Franken first proposed it. But the right doesn’t care about norms anymore. Do you think they’d really accept the results of an investigation if it was favorable toward Franken? Of course not — Franken was never going to win. They were not going to let that happen.
That kind of touching can absolutely be classified as sexual assault, however as a lawyer you should know better not to say Franken committed sexual assault and instead say “Franken allegedly committed sexual assault” since he has not been convicted of anything. Not that he has to be convicted to face consequences and lose his job, but you still should know to say allegedly.
Sam the pink: +1,000.
Look, I’m Jewish and pro-choice which means by law I have to vote Dem, BUT Franken is a fecal flotter. The apology, if one can call it that, is insulting. Photos don’t lie and these women have absolutely nothing and I mean nothing to gain from lying either. They’re getting dragged through the mud along with him (ironic it happens most by my fellow liberals).
I’m pissed that he wasn’t pushed out sooner. Nancy and Chuck checked the election laws in Minnesota and knew the Democratic gov would be able to appoint a Dem to replace him. Better be someone with a stellar reputation or better yet a WOMAN to make up for the time it took to happen. The party doesn’t get a pass just because it was politically advantageous to make him leave.
The Democratic gov is able to appoint a Dem to replace him—until November 2018 when there will be a special election. That determines who holds the seat until November 2020 when there will be another election for a six year term.
Your talking points sound like Fox points. That is what they were saying. Very much the same.
Not you Tourmaline. lol
@magnoliarose
First, you’ve said more about yourself that you know what FOX news says. I don’t. Don’t watch it myself.
Second, I believe that all women, no matter their political views, have a right not to have their bodies violated. This whole thing has made me question whether the party of equal rights for women, my party, hasn’t just been blowing smoke up my ass low these many decades. The way the Dems, and yes, you too @magnooliarose, drag these women who are victims through the mud is reprehensible and blatantly hippocritical.
Finally, all of those calling for the ethics investigation are deluding themselves. The ethics committee is a joke. This is well known in political circles. Be it Dem or GOP. You have colleagues investigating colleagues for matters your colleagues are likely also guilty. Please.
I pay attention to what BOTH parties discuss, and I don’t read only media that supports my points of view. This is how I know their tactics and their playbook. I also understand political history and grew up surrounded by it, so I have no idea what you are talking about. If you live in an echo chamber that is on you.
Tweeden I drag for being a birther, and since that is a lie and she told other lies, and she is a racist I don’t automatically trust her word. The fact her own friend said she was coached for weeks speaks for itself. I don’t know the unidentified women, their history or their story from them so I wouldn’t know what to think either way. I just know the other women with far more on the line took a risk, but these women are afraid of Franken? One ok but 6? Really.
It is strange that in every other case I have never questioned, and I have been supportive, and even then the evidence was so overwhelming that even resistant men had to shut up. Which was the point. This has been about the victims using their voices. Not about one man or 10 men but about all women and getting more women including women of color/ethnicities and LGBTQ+ women in positions of power.
I love how some people are putting their political views before the safety of victims of harassment. I’m sure you’ve also hoped for a full investigation before all the other accused have lost their jobs, right?
Because politics doesn’t have anything to do with what ultimately happens to the safety of victims of harassment — right?
As a working woman I had been touched on more than one occasion. Number one I would say to the person “don’t to touch me”, or ask, “why are you touching me” Or get “off of me” in a forceful voice, after one encounter it never happened again. I’m a grown woman, not a child and set the person straight. I never thought that if a person touched my waist one time that person should be fired. If that behavior continued then for sure they would be writtened up by me, just how I have handled the situations.
IMO, Al F should not have to resigned unless the dotard living in the white House resigned. He did much worst than what Franken is accused of. I hope Franken runs again next year and I hope he wins.
So you don’t believe in due process? Or a fair hearing in which he can face the people who accused him, including the 5 anonymous accusers??
Good to know
I believe in being consistent, and I haven’t seen the people defending Al asking for Weinstein, Spacey, Singer, Westwick, etc. Be given “due process”. So we believe the victims except when they go against the liberal politicians of our dreams? I hate double standards. If he’s innocent, I hope he can prove it. But while there are 5 women accusing him, he should not hold a position of power. The fact there’s a President who’s being accused of similar and worse things is bad enough, but he’ll never have the decency to resign. That doesn’t mean others should follow his bad example.
Meh there have been plenty of people who said that about due process with those men. Those men were not elected officials, there is the difference. There was no political motive to “set those men up.”
I feel obligated to add that shit was known about Weinstein, Spacey and Singer FOREVER before they were finally brought to task. Not so with Franken. It’s easier to not harp on the idea of due process when known shitbags finally get the comeuppance we’ve all been waiting for.
If the dems wanted him out for the reasons they state, the coalition would have acted before..to wait for some fan to say he put his arm around her waist and pretend that it’s the breaking point..huh uh. The concern should be abuse of power, but already he is being lumped together with rapist Weinstein and a southern child molester as if all this is equal. They all whine that there should be an ethics hearing for the molester as soon as he gets there, but denied AF that right. If they think under 30 females are going to uncharacteristically flock to the polls in a year because of this, they’re crazy..and the slush fund that has paid out to victims? it was there under the Obama admin when dems had the majority too..suddenly they’re concerned? By painting every level of behavior with the same brush, I’m afraid the dems are again putting themselves in a terrible position.
They are.
Though I don’t see turnout being affected by this.
Nope, I don’t want to hear from a predator to talk about respecting women. He needs to jack off and never come back. Let someone who never assaulted a woman speak those words. He is a hypocrite and a disgusting human being.
I can’t believe there are people who are sad to see he is gone. I don’t care about his political beliefs or stance. This man is a predator. Stop giving him a pass, He needs to go and never come back again. If he truly respected women, he would not have done those things, He sounds bitter and angry by taking pot shots at Trump and Moore. While they are predators too, are they responsible for Franken actions against the women he assaulted? Nope.
Are you equating AF actions with the dotard and Moore? If so, shame on you.
Yes I am . He did the same things that Trump got accused of. He touched women without their consent and forcibly kissed them. He touched a woman’s breasts while she was asleep. He even groped them as well.
You are giving him a pass and I think you are wrong.
@Ariel, no he did not, I distinctly remember the dotard saying he “grabbed women by the pu$$y and they let you” no one accused AF of grabbing their private parts. Another women who accused the dotard of putting his hands up her skirt and grabbed her ass. Yesterday that woman Huddy says the dotard kissed her on the lips without asking. Don’t forget more than a dozen women accused the dotard. When you come out sweetheart swinging about the dotard’s and More behavior I will hear you, hypocrit!
Somehow I would be surprised to hear if Franken hit on a14 year old. Let’s repeat that one: 14 year old. That’s how old one of Moore’s victims was when he hit on her. Moore spouts that Bible all the time. If I was religious on the level he claims to be, I’d wish for God to strike him dead for his sins. He’s a man who says women shouldn’t be in the judiciary, God knows what else, and he has a good chance of being elected. Send money to his opponent, please.
This! Yes! 👍🏻
no he isn’t! you want to talk predator don the con is so is creepy moore
Holy crap, no. This isn’t in the same zip code as sexual predator.
A photo that by some accounts involved Tweeden’s participation. A photo in which you can’t see the alleged action. Someone’s waist being touched. These things are sexual predation to you, the equivalent of Harvey Weinstein raping, harassing and intimidating?
We need to take accusations very seriously and believe the victims AND investigate thoroughly.
Five anonymous accusers. Five. I just wanted him to have a fair hearing. I guess in the US, that is no longer allowed when a man is accused.
And I would call for the same even for the pedophile Moore. Let’s get his accusers under oath, and then him. That way, he will go down for perjury too.
Ariel, Franken was not touching that woman int the picture. And there is some confusion as to whether she was in on it as a joke.
And 5 anonymous accusers. And a kiss and touch on the waist.
And you are comparing that to pu$$y grabber Trump and Pedophile Moore?? Are you a Trumper?
Ridiculous!
Kamala Harris??
YOU LOST MY VOTE
You’re being ridiculous.
You’re being condescending.
He never apologized. His “ goodbye” speech was just talking about himself and throwing shade at Trump and Moore and Franken is exactly like them. One’s politics is irrelevant, when it comes to someone who is harassing women. He should already be gone, same as the rest of them, which includes my next door neighbor. 🔥
He already apologised. I am thrilled he left throwing righteous shade at Trump and Moore. No, in this case politics can’t be irrelevant because everything to the GOP is about poiitics. So is their false equivalency. And you bought it.
He apologized privately to Tweeden. I’m not sure about the other women who went on the record.
Franken finally resigned due to pressure from his colleagues, without thought for the nuance and due process- so expedient, for them. Moreover, without due process the women don’t get a voice. The Dems continue to run scared and lame. Disappointing. Their weakness leaves me gobsmacked.
I mean, it’s great that so many of you believe every woman without pause. Really, that’s a good thing. It’s the sanctimony that is tiring. Those of us who were skeptical about this are jaded by the dirty tricks of the right. Jesus, look at how many people think the accusations against Moore are a hit job from the left. That’s where we are. I’m not proud of the fact that I think this was a witch hunt, but I do.
I’m just tired of women being on their high horse about this, but being apoplectic about Taylor Swift being on the Time cover. Yes I know she is apolitical and won’t denounce Nazis, but many of y’all are saying that this shouldn’t be a political issue. The women at Fox were still victims despite working at an awful network. My father is a biracial man who is viewed as black to many people. False accusations disproportionately hurt black men. They caused lynchings back in the day and can still ruin lives. So I’m sorry that I can be skeptical in some cases.
And in light of numerous attempts to mislead and snare members of the media in concocted stories in hopes that they take the bait so the right can undermine and disparage them – see the recent article by the Washington Post about an attempt to bait them with a false Moore story, I am very suspicious about ‘anonymous’ accounts and stories that aren’t rigorously verified. Franken needed an opportunity to prove his innocence or admit full wrong doing in the light of testimony and evidence. Those on the Right have no problem lying or weaponizing a righteous cause against their adversaries.
THE OG BB,
Thank you. History shows us that women sometimes lie. I will never believe ALL women because that is naive, but I believe women, a corrective to a larger, centuries-old belief that women are, in general, liars.