I’ve been in a bunker made out of awards-season coverage and the Australian Open for the past two weeks, so I really haven’t been watching the news that much. There was a lull in both tennis and red carpet stuff last night, so I checked in on Chris Hayes. There was the comforting ol’ “Breaking News” banner. The breaking news? Donald Trump ordered the firing of Robert Mueller back in June 2017, only White House counsel Don McGahn threatened to quit if Trump went through with it:
Everyone can stop wondering when President Trump will try to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller, because it appears that already happened last summer. Four sources tell the New York Times that Trump ordered Muller’s firing in June, amid reports that the special counsel was looking into whether he attempted to obstruct justice. However, Trump backed down after White House counsel Don McGahn threatened to quit.
When McGahn received Trump’s order, he reportedly refused to ask the Justice Department to dismiss Mueller. The special counsel can only be removed for cause, and McGahn didn’t find the case Trump laid out very convincing. Per the Times: “First, [Trump] claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., had prompted Mr. Mueller, the F.B.I. director at the time, to resign his membership. The president also said Mr. Mueller could not be impartial because he had most recently worked for the law firm that previously represented the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Finally, the president said, Mr. Mueller had been interviewed to return as the F.B.I. director the day before he was appointed special counsel in May.”
Justice Department ethics officials cleared Mueller to lead the probe into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign after his former employer said he did not personally work with anyone connected to the case. The Washington Post reports that there was no dispute over golf club dues, Mueller merely resigned from the club in 2011, then “sent a letter requesting a dues refund in accordance with normal club practice and never heard back.”
Legality aside, McGahn reportedly argued that firing Mueller would be catastrophic for Trump’s presidency, as it would spark more questions about obstruction of justice. A source told the Post that McGahn didn’t deliver the resignation threat directly to Trump, but he was serious. McGahn told White House officials that Trump would not follow through on ordering Muller’s firing on his own, and the president backed off.
I’ve been thinking a lot in the past year about the strength and fragility of our government and institutions. We all know it will take decades to undo what Trump has done, but what if that’s not even an option at some point? We want to believe that if Trump fires Mueller, all hell really will break loose and suddenly that will be the last straw. When looking back at all of the horrible f–king bulls–t Trump has already “gotten away with,” why do we think that sacking Mueller will suddenly be the breaking point? Won’t the GOP majority just shrug and go back to formulating another tax cut for billionaires? And then what?
Also: a lot of people are wondering why this news is coming out right now. Like, is someone trying to send a message to Trump by leaking it, or are Deplorables sending out a test balloon, a treason canary in the impeachment coal mine?
Photos courtesy of Backgrid.
He’ll scream it’s ‘fake news’
orange idiot
He can’t scream “fake news” about this. Even his most staunch defender Sean Hannity was forced to admit that Donald Trump indeed tried to fire Mueller back in June:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sean-hannity-reality-check-live-tv_us_5a6aad11e4b01fbbefb06a85?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
He is a complete $hitgibbon. It must be exhausting having to deal with him in any capacity.
Already did.
He’s already bitching about the NYT fake news
I checked and Mueller wasn’t even appointed special prosecutor until the third week of May. Trump tried to fire him in June. Someone has a guilty conscience.
I’m so glad Mueller gets to know this before Trump’s interview. I’m sure he’ll find use for it.
I’m betting he already knew.
We’re finding out about it now, but I’m certain Mueller knew this ages ago. He’s just not leaking info. This is a very controlled investigation. We know what he wants us to know. Meanwhile, Trump is imploding.
Yeah, most likely he already knew, but just in case he didn’t, I am glad it is coming out now.
He knew about it. There are reports that said Mueller got some type of documentation about it (McGahn’s CYO memo maybe?).
I hope Mueller goes after all the treason weasels. Including Congress.
Haha, Mueller had an interview with Trump regarding the FBI director job to replace Comey days before he accepted the position to investigate Trump instead. He’s already in Trump’s head, hardcore.
Ice-water veins aside, Trump can obsess over Mueller all he wants, there are 50 other people working this investigation, whose names Trump probably doesn’t know. Firing one guy, then the next guy, it won’t really make a difference. He’s toast.
he already did exactly that
Timing was what struck me most. This was deliberate and strategic. I agree, it reads like a warning shot from the left and I wonder if Nunes’ misleading memo has anything to do with it.
Also suspicious FBI texts lost then found – I’m team non-Trump (Im trying not to encourage this left v right b.s.) so, you know, do what has to be done to save this country and the systems that truly make it great (when staffed with intelligent ppl who have integrity).
But holy f%$k nuts this circus gets crazier everyday. And I believe winter is still coming . . .
Nunes sure seems invested in protecting 45, doesn’t he? I wonder if Mueller is investigating Nunes and if he’s getting money from the Motherland (Russia).
Chrissy: I truly believe Nunes is benefiting from Trump. Really hope he goes down with the rest of the spineless sycophants currently infecting the govt.
Nunes IS getting money from Russia. Russians invested heavily in his agricultural businesses.
Nunes is also benefitting financially from Rebekah Mercer and the Kochs. So he is willing to do the bidding of drump as a way to get their ultraconservative agenda passed to destroy anything progressive and compassionate that the Obama administration accomplished. Rebekah is buying and destroying our democracy in any of its progressive forms. Already the drump administration has appointed 12 ultraconservative judges that will affect our laws for generations. And Neil Gorsuch as a supreme court justice is horrible news for anyone who values compassion and fair play. He is all for the Mercers totalitarian mindset.
I believe that with hapless, idiotic Nunes you just need to follow the money.
Nunes is protecting himself. He went bonkers when he heard that Americans talking with Russians under surveillance were unmasked by request of authorized parties. Methinks he was either one of the unmasked, or else someone among them knows dirt on Nunes and might spill.
Nobody gets that scared and goes to such bizarre extremes to protect Trump, a guy who has demonstrated again and again that he always throws other people under the bus to save his own skin. It’s Nunes who is in jeopardy.
Not so sure it’s from the left. It could be a warning shot from our intelligence agencies (no, not falling into that whole Deep State crap.) The DOJ issued a written warning to Nunes about his ridiculous memo, stern enough for me to believe that if he does release it, he will be arrested. These are dedicated people who have served our nation for years and they’re fed up with how our institutions are being trampled.
Oh my God. I am not surprised that he tried to have him fired it’s that this is just coming out now. I think that perhaps someone on the inside is trying to get rid of him or maybe Republicans are tired of the sh*tshow-circus that is the US government.
On morning joe this morning they played two tapes interview, from June last year, one of the interview was Newt Gingrich saying Mr Mueller should be fired. So, yes, he was talking about firing Mr Mueller. I guess because he was not fired people overlooked it as just talk, now we know he really contemplated to fire him.
I’m asking a serious question, has anyone on this board seen a substantial increase in their pay check.? I’m talking at least a hundred dollars a week. I have not, I don’t know anyone who has. This has me thinking the majority who has gained from the tax cut is really for the 1%.
I haven’t
I’ve only been hearing about the thousands of people who have been unexpectedly layed off after this tax cut. No big bucks in their pockets
I’m guessing the tens of thousands of people who have lost their jobs as a result of an almost 5% drop in US tourism, not to mention the AT&T, Carrier, ToysRUs and Walmart lay-offs have not seen their pay checks go up.
Soon to be joined by the solar panel installers now that Trump has had another brain fart and decided to put a self-defeating tariff on imports…
I think they said the increase starts in February, right?
I haven’t seen a difference but I do see a substantial difference in my tax return. Don’t give a f*ck thought because I don’t rely on my return as some sort of income or whatever.
I get paid once a month and it will not effect my January pay check (retirement). I asked and I was told that the new tax law will not take effect until February. They are just now coming out with the new tax brackets.
I just received my first 2-week salaried paycheck for January, and it did increase by a small amount (roughly 60 dollars).
Since it’s direct deposit, I haven’t analyzed the pay stub online, but assume it’s factoring in the tax bracket changes.
Be careful. They are directing employers to heavily withhold to goose what employees see in their paychecks, but it runs the risk of under-withholding, meaning that you could owe taxes when you file your 2018 tax return.
@Tiffany – the one reason I asked about the deduction is so that mine stays about the same this year with the new tax law. I already put in an extra amount and will add to it if I see my deduction has gone down in Feb (I don’t get paid until the end of the month). I will keep an eye on it throughout Feb to make sure.
Not just you with the paycheck! My partner saw a rise in his too and was very puzzled.
I was accidentally overpaid by about $190 in my paycheck right after the holidays this year but I don’t think that has anything to do with tax cuts. I noticed I had a slight increase and was pleased but didn’t think much of it. Of course Pay Roll had to rain on my parade and tell me it was a clerical error in their system. I wasn’t the only employee to be overpaid and of course that amount will be deducted from my next paycheck. This isn’t the first time I got accidentally overpaid either, a few years ago the amount was much more significant (like $600) and I was pissed when the only solution was to have that deducted from my next paycheck. But I don’t really care anymore as this is my last week at my current job and they have to pay me for the vacation days I haven’t taken (10 days) so I’m a bit whatever about the whole thing.
Elkie- it doesn’t seem to occur to Trumpies that a 30% tariff on merchandise will mean a 30% increase in the price of that item. They may not relate so much to solar panels but he’s talking about tariffs on consumer goods also. For instance, a similar tariff on washing machines will hit them when their machine breaks down. Many are now manufactured outside the US. The ones from Europe tend to be good (and less prone to mold, a consideration for me) but also more expensive anyway. But those manufactured in countries with a lower cost of living are cheaper. Since newer machines break down much more often than the one ones – good luck. Likewise for various electronics devices, TV sets, etc.
And when a component of an assembled product becomes more expensive, demand usually goes down and jobs are lost for that reason. Close to 30,000 solar installer jobs may be lost and that part of the industry may stop growing. Assembly jobs likewise, as well as sales jobs. What seems like a protective move may not be in today’s world.
Another reason to be cautious about spending any increase is that you are likely to see an increase in medical insurance premiums. Anthem was estimating last summer that they would have to jump up 28% specifically because of Trump’s actions to sabotage the ACA all year, they had to cover their extra risk due to his playing around with such things as the subsidies. Estimates of the additional increase due to the tax bill eliminating the individual mandate have been as high as 10%.
This was my take, too, it does feel like maybe someone in his inner circle is fed up with Baby Fists. But who knows.
I read on Twitter (yeah but there are legit analysis on this whole debacle) that the leaker may be Bannon, Priebus and McGahn’s attorney. Yes all three share the same atty and its assumed they all sang to Mueller.
They are on the news defending him, a handful maybe but most will defend him.
All hell is breaking loose soon – the left and Mueller just released the first shot.
Watch how Trump and the Republicans are going to explain this one.
Don’t think Mueller has anything to do with this leak, Mueller doesn’t leak. This is more likely from McGahn and other former/current WH staff, trying to make themselves look better by having it appear they’re saving us from Two Scoop’s tantrums.
Agreed. Mueller doesn’t do warnings, he goes for the kill shot or not at all.
But that’s not to say it’s the dems that leaked. If Trump isn’t making someone money, then he’s making their life inexplicably harder (re: McGahn). Meaning theres no shortage of individuals AND institutions/dept’s that would throw him under the bus; some gleefully and others just to cover their ass.
I’m really curious who put this in the headlines and even more curious about their motivations for doing so.
Something bigger is lurking just beneath the surface.
That’s an interesting theory. Why now, though?
McGahn threatened to quit last June rather than direct the DOJ to fire Mueller. Trump backed down. I reckon Trump is amping up to do it again though hiding behind his delight in being interviewed by Mueller in the full expectation that M will be fired. I reckon McGahn leaked it.
A Dutch intelligence agency reportedly confirmed Russian meddling in the election with tapes in conjunction of working along side the FBI. May be that’s why the plot thickens.
This leak was timed to be released when Trump is out of the country in Davos.
I was just checking @AprilRyan twitter and she apparently broke this story last June. How is that possible, but then this story is just now getting major publicity?
In every interview, Trump team members were asked about this, but they always denyed anything like this was happening
It seems this is confirmation of her story.
WAPO & NYT have done this before, he leaves they beak a big story. He needs to be embarrassed while overseas and deserves it.
He literally said this was fake news. Predictable.
He’s conditioned his followers to believe that any negative news about him is fake. They will parrot “fake news” all day on Twitter.
Sheep
Lemmings
Which is his whole intention. I really believe that he’s known for a long time he’d eventually get in trouble for the sh*t He’s done.
I think he set up this whole “fake news” for stories just like this one. He made sure his minions would think the story is fake because he’s been drilling this in to their simple heads for so long (along with coconspiraters faux news). So now that the sh*t that is going to bring him down- will be ignored by his base. They are total sheep/lemmings/ants. Following along and not questioning.
Croaking sewage-frogs.
Already we’re hearing ‘this is the tipping point’..oh, haven’t we had an outrageous ‘tipping point’ every week for a year? The only time this wretched liar was ever honest is when he bragged he could murder someone and his voters wouldn’t care. I’m so very tired…
exactly and me, too
I think that most of us are exhausted by the orange menace. But, I am so proud that we still get up and march, march, march, and so many women are running in November. It’s getting to the Republicans. Witness how many of them have decided to not run again.
omg…I saw a short video (snippets from a “focus group”) of drumpf voters, being asked about their vote, if they regret it at all, etc.
most of them were totally drunk on the Kool-Aid (one woman was so scarily sycophantic…) but there was one guy who was like “I’m not a member of the cult of Trump” and was willing to criticize him, and he got REAMED by the others. the guy made mention of drumpf’s comment on how he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and said “none of you would care!” to which they replied…(and I kid you not)…
“like Hillary hasn’t killed people?!”
THAT WAS THEIR ONLY RESPONSE. not, “no, I wouldn’t support him after that” or any kind of limit to their support. their only response was “but Hillary!”
Omg. The fact that people can say with straight face that Hillary has murdered people while ignoring Trump’s litany of crimes and corruption is just beyond me. They truly live in an alternate reality.
There will be no tipping point. Just when you think Trump and the GOP have hit bottom, someone hands them a shovel.
This is why is so important to vote in November if you have states elections in Nov. He will crap his pants if the Republicans are voted out and Dems gain control. They the only ones protecting him. It is them we need to remove from office and he will finally suffer the consequences of his actions.
November 2018 will be the defining moment on how much more of this garbage we are willing to take.It came out Paul Ryan took 500 k in campaign money from the kochs right after the tax vote.the majority of voters were against this new tax law,84 percent of voters are in favor of DACA but yet this Congress is ignoring constituents and doing the bidding of their wealthy donors .How much longer are we going to put up with this and that loser in the White House?
This is how democracy dies. With a slow erosion of everything we supposedly hold dear
I sometime wonder, though, if this erosion hasn’t been going on for a long time. How else is all of this possible all of a sudden. The whole Checks and Balances is off, because of corruption and partisanship. Maybe the Trump presidency is very much needed, to show the flaws of the system and make it better after that. I just hope the whole country won’t go up in flames before this happens.
oh yes its been happening for years. just like hitler didn’t wake up one day and create the third reich. it was a slow move.
this began during bush and ramped up in the obama years. turns out you can’t obstruct and play dirty and then expect the checks and balances to work.
Greed and extremism, unchecked over many years, has led us here.
A longtime reporter mentioned this morning that some don’t care about the Orange mess right now because their own economic situation is fine (as if this past year did that). The country club set are therefore not pressuring their elected reps to do anything.
Absolutely. The right, with more than a little help from Fox News, began the sowing seeds decades ago on various fronts, which came to fruition in the form of Trump and the deplorables.
@Nicole funny you mention that. I wanted to write something similar, but held back. I am German, not old enough to have been there, but I had it in every history class, I ever took. Anyways, the system was flawed then, and it made Hitler possible, the only good thing, that came from that, was that Germany had the chance to rebuild afterwards and erase the possibilities of someone taking over so shamelessly, with no way to stop them.
I am not sure, how it will get better here though, since it is only those two parties, every time one of them wins, they sure won’t undo what brought them there, i.e. the electoral college. It would be so much healthier if the States had a few more parties and really something to chose from. I have started to rewatch “The West Wing” since it kinda gives me this second reality of a sane White House, my favorite quotation from one of the first episodes was “This is not a democracy this is a republic.” So there is that.
Totally agree with you. I’ve mentioned this on here before but I really think this could be the beginning of the end of American democracy as we know it. Democracy goes in swings and roundabouts throughout history. This could even be the start of some sort of authoritarian/dictator style rule. The Republicans back whatever he does, who’s to say that after your mid-terms Trump won’t just turn around and declare them fake news and declare the results void?
Looking at this from an outsider perspective I can’t help but draw comparisons with other countries who fell under dictatorship during the 20th century. It took willing and complicit politicians, a racist base, and a charismatic leader, which is exactly what you have now. People will concede thinking “well it won’t get any worse” but history has taught us that it invariably can, and will.
I see commenters saying they’ll vote in November but personally I don’t think that’s enough. I know it’s an unpopular opinion but you need to bring your country to a standstill until he is gone, whatever it takes. This happened in Egypt and Ukraine in recent years, people had had enough and they were willing to die for their cause and to drive out corruption. Of course those countries aren’t perfect now by any stretch of the imagination and still have a long way to go, but I don’t think he will be removed via a democratic vote or by impeachment. For some reason I just can’t see it happening, as much as that prospect fills me with dread. He is a dangerous man who needs to be stopped, but I don’t see anyone really strong enough to do so. I hope I’m wrong, and I also hope I don’t get jumped on for expressing an unpopular opinion. It gives me no joy to write this, but it’s my opinion for what it’s worth. I’ve seen unpopular opinions get jumped on in recent months, and as a reader of this site for a decade it’s upsetting.
Robert Mueller is a Republican who was appointed by a Republican who has (a likely) majority Republican team. WTF
Mueller’s old style Republican, not like today’s Republicans.
And most of his prosecutors are Dems, it’s been brought up by Congressional Republicans quite often, because they claim they’re biased against Trump.
Mueller has a lifetime of public service, something today’s Republicans don’t understand.
The FBI is conservative.. even the “proClinton” FBI Agent preferred Kasich over Hillary
According to Trump, Mueller interviewed for the head of the FBI position the day before he was appointed to run the Russia investigation.
@Annabelle: Yes the FBI is usually conservative, but at this point, considering how the Republicans are demonizing the intelligence community, can the IC considered Republican (except for the NYC FBI office)? And I repeat, many of Mueller’s Murderer’s Row of prosecutors have donated to Dem candidates.
To claim the Mueller investigation is biased because Mueller is a Republican isn’t much better than the Republicans claiming its biased because some of the prosecutors lean Dem.
Read Mueller’s bio. Not perfect, but does it read like someone who’s going to give a pass to someone like Trump because they belong to the same political party? If he was going to give him a pass, he’d not have hired who he’s hired.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller
I don’t actually care about his political party, but the FBI, and Mueller, are extremely conservative. After I read about Mueller’s handling of the NFL probe I am very skeptical of him. If there’s a bias, it’s a conservative bias.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/07/mueller-nfl-probe-rice-goodell-239216
So someone in a comment on another article asked why we werent doing anything to stop him….well, what can we do? We can call our Senators and march, but they have to make the decision to get rid of him and they won’t. I thought some of the stuff Trump has done would have gotten him out of there. But no, no matter what he does, they stand behind him. Tbh, I’ve given up and am resigning myself to the current state of affairs. He’s done deplorable things and is still in office. Unfucking believable.
We have to vote come November, that’s what we can do. Take out the ones covering for him. The Dems have no power to do anything because we do not have the votes in the house or senate. VOTE, NOVEMBER 2018 and make a change.
B n A’s right, vote like crazy in November. But I’m also persuaded by the arguments that while we can’t do much at the level of national politics, what we can focus on is the local, both elections, but also just getting involved in organizations that are working to shore up our democracy and make life decent for all citizens. Think nationally, work locally, build up strong foundations and new leadership that can step into the breach.
Vote!! I live in a deeply blue state, so Republicans in local offices are rather thin on the ground here, but I still want to put every single one of them on the spot about how shamefully their party has behaved. I don’t care if they are a junior member of the port commission, or the city dog catcher, their association with the GOP taints them. Every single Republican needs to know there will be consequences for the their (in)action.
Voting in November is so important. Also, we must remember that there are red House seats even in blue states. Everyone has something they can contribute, whether it is contacting voters in other states, contacting voters in the district next to yours. Getting out the vote is so important.
What “GOTV” does, is that it enables people getting to the polls. It helps people find the right polling location, help with transportation or child care issues, making sure their registration is up-to-date, etc. It can really make a difference in voter turn out.
Please vote in every election local, state and federal. Vote in your state’s primary. One reason the GOP is in power is that the Democrats stay home in off year elections.
+100 yesterdays comment asking why we weren’t doing anything was ridiculous. It’s not like we can just walk up to the door of the WH and tell Trump to leave. I can’t believe that with all of the suspicious and childish things he’s done, that he still has so many enablers. So very unfucking believable
I admit to totally losing my sh*t on that poor commenter. I just can’t listen to that crap anymore.
Some people truly don’t grasp how powerless we all are. The only thing we can do to impact our current circumstances is to vote in the mid-terms.
right. i call my senators and reps every day. i’m active and involved in community causes. but i cannot fire anyone without a ballot. esp when congress is supposed to. our constitution was built to prevent a trump but the gop has been gerrymandering and cheating for years to prevent losses. we have to hit the ground running but we need help in washington.
Edit: I’m also just so damn tired and run down by the state of things
It simply involves one thing, showing up to the polls in November and voting out the Republicans. Remove them and he is a dead whale in the water. It is the only thing which can actually work at this point.
Anyone noticed wife #3 did not accompany him on this trip, neither was favorite daughter there? Also, Don the Con missed his #13 wedding anniversary on January 22. It came and went and not a tweet or a peep from the dotard wishing his #3 a happy 😃 anniversary. I believe there is unrest at the tower, lol. Btw, wife #3 went to Florida alone, or was she alone? 😆. I noticed he has not tweeted one tweet about that porn star and we know he never missed an opportunity to punch back whenever he is silted. Me think stormy is casting a cloud over the Con man and his #3 wife.
Now we found out he tried to fire Mr Mueller and this morning he’s crying “fake news, fake news.” Has this man has no shame. I’m praying for the day when Mr Mueller haul him and his family out of the White House screaming fake news, fake news. Good riddance to bad rubbish, and that’s the entire dotard’s family and friends. Follow the money 💰.
Yes. She didn’t go to Davos with him. Apparently she went to the holocaust museum instead. My friend sent me a meme that said Melania wanted to do something less depressing than go to Europe with dumpy don.
Did she use Air Force One to go to Mar A Lago?
Wonder if we paid for that trip…
Air Force One generally goes with the President. It’s intended to be a flying Oval Office in case of a crisis. She probably took another government jet.
But it’s delightful that Melania decided on the spur of the moment to bring publicity to the Holocaust Museum. Had to do something to back up the claim that sorry, she had a schedule conflict. Well done, Melania. Sounds like a message is being sent.
Not at all shocking and I’m still not holding my breath on him not giving it another try. Mueller getting canned isn’t going to sink him at this point.
I have no hope either. I heard Jeffrey Toobin last night say he can plead the fifth and make this go away.
Rules are different for this guy after all.
Anyone with any legal knowledge know how this would play out?
If Emperor Zero wasn’t guilty of obstruction, he certainly is now (as Mueller knows all the details). Be prepared for a crazy few weeks as Mueller may have 3 cooperating witnesses (Rancid Penis, Whiskey Steve and Don McGahn [who all share the same lawyer!]) to corroborate the obstruction charges related to Comey’s unlawful firing.
The obstruction charge is the easiest offense for Mueller to refer to the DOJ, who would then refer it to Congress for impeachment proceedings. What the current Congress does with this info is unknown currently but a Blue Wave in 2018 would certainly be EZ’s political death.
Mueller’s long view thereafter is to indict EZ and his minions on Russia-related charges (conspiracy, election-tampering, computer crimes, money laundering et al), but that complex web will take a few years to unwrap. I’ve heard the number of people involved in Russia-related crimes is between 264 and 500, which is very alarming. This includes many GOP members of congress but also quite a few Dems.
Painful for all of us here and worldwide. Keep the faith in our institutions. The US will be back by 2024.
I hope you’re right. My concern is that this will take so long that Dotard will die of old age before he sees the inside of a prison cell. That makes me physically ill, the thought that he will never pay for his crimes in any meaningful way. I’m petty. I want him to suffer. I want the suffering he’s causing millions of people to come back on him tenfold.
Juls,
Would you feel a little bit better if Don Jr (conspiracy/treason) Jared Kushner (computer crimes/money laundering), and possibly Eric Trump (Trump Org laundering) see prison time?
Even Ivanka may have to flip to ensure no jail time given all she knows and her whereabouts/contributions to Comey firing, Air Force One reset on Jr, and Jared’s shady financial record.
Yes, I guess I’ll take what I can get. Beggars can’t be choosers! Or like Esmom said below, to see them all completely ruined financially would be a big victory.
The family has to be first convinced that it’s not worth staying in the will. Maybe Mueller should share with them some of the financial realities he’s uncovered. There may not be enough left to fight over.
I worry that if the case is just for obstruction that impeachment won’t happen. The R’s know a blue tsunami is going to drown them, so why sacrifice anything if they know that -regardless of impeachment – they’ve only got 2ish years left.
I fear they’ll save Trump in some misguided attempt to save their party the embarrassment of a successful impeachment.
Please tell me I’m wrong.
Seriously, I need to believe the majority of Congress would vote country over party.
Jker
The GOP in Congress can get around the coming Blue Wave if they take the initiative to impeach the Orange Clown. By doing this, they can say that they (finally) stood up to presidential crimes and ride their own wave toward the 2018 midterms on it.
I don’t actually think this will happen because a) many GOPers are complicit in criminal activity and b) trump will effectively split the Republican Party in two (taking his deplorables with him) while true Repubs remain behind (Bushers/Comey-types/Steve Schmidt/Richard Painter/etc).
Thanks, Eric, was hoping to see your take here.
And Juls, if he doesn’t see the inside of a prison cell I’m ok with that as long as he and his grifter family are swept out of DC. And ideally crippled financially.
Happy New Year Esmom!
Nice to hear from you
The trio of ‘insiders’ all share the same lawyer? How interesting. Supposedly a total of four people confirmed last night’s news story (2 for NYT and assume 2 different people for WaPo).
Perhaps the trio and maybe Spicey are the four now trying to cover their behinds?
Christin
Obviously, the lawyer will have to unrepresent two of the three as its a conflict of interest (if that still means anything today).
“ the number of people involved in Russia-related crimes is between 264 and 500”
WTF?!?!?!! That’s so crushing/infuriating that so many people would do this.
It sounds surprising until I think about the strict rules regarding campaign donations (especially from foreign sources). There are probably a bunch who took illegal donations and thought no one would dig into it.
Tiffany:
That includes NRA members who funneled $ into a Trump Putsch and an untold number of Russian oligarchs/spies.
Read the article about the Dutch using their own spying techniques; they watched the Russian game unfold in real time. !
Eric, do you have a link for the article about the Dutch intelligence?
Christin, you are probably right, those numbers probably involve a lot of the money-laundering folks. It sounds like Trump’s entire community had debts to Russian-affiliated banks.
Tiffany https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/amp
If you want to save the article about how Dutch intelligence wandered into the very network doing the attacks on the Democrats (and then attempting an attack on the US State Department, which was thwarted only because the Dutch were on the job, watching the hack in real-time and passing along the details to the Americans)- what worked for me was to ask for the full desktop site and then open in iBooks. Wouldn’t work right in mobile view.
It’s really amazing, the Dutch even hacked into the security cameras so they could identify the people carrying out the attacks.
He’s giving a speech right now, and he’s back to sniffing. What with him and this sniffing when he’s giving a big speech.
Of course he started it about the record setting stock market. Sniff. Now he babbling about how awesome he is for the tax reform that only he could accomplish, and only getting fake news when he became president, because the media loved him while he was a successful business man
The sniffing was major. I wonder what Complicit Doc slipped him?
Trump started out calling it “fake news” and at some point, he said it’s about “fighting back”. It’s his usual cacophony of mixed muddled messages because he’s a slippery snake who operates that way and thinks he can get away with anything. Hurry, Mueller! Let’s give this snake justice.
yeah, that “fighting back” bit might really bite him in the ass.
“fighting back” against an investigation that is bogus, or that you think is bogus, would entail giving FULL DISCLOSURE and testifying under oath, if you truly didn’t do anything criminal and have nothing to hide. that’s what fighting back means – PROVING YOUR INNOCENCE.
he’s basically admitted that he tried to do SOMETHING to “fight back” against what he considers a “witch hunt” but is actually a legitimate investigation. and that “fighting back” was to fire the investigator and to try to derail the investigation…not what an innocent person would do to “fight back” but what a guilty person would do to OBSTRUCT.
Does ANYONE think “under oath” means ANYTHING to anyone of that lot??? They wouldn’t know/speak the truth
with a gun to their heads. They will deny, deny, deny as long as they have breath. Even when confronted with hard facts they deny and yell “fake news”! What do you really think “under oath” will do? If we’re lucky, just get them on perjury, but that’s all…. I’m so tired of all this! 😞
@IMQRIOUS2 Exactly my thoughts. To some people “under oath” has no value or any impact on their lying nature. My ex lied his a*s off in court, I submitted docs to prove the truth so the judge caught him and do you think thete were consequences? Nope. The judge scolded him for his “attitude” and moved on. I lost so much faith in the whole system then. And my ex is just a regular Joe with no influence to compare with the POTUS. They’ll scold the orange idiot and move on because “everyone deserves equal access to justice”, liers included.
Lying to the FBI is still a felony even if you are not under oath.
Some TV pundits talked about the “fighting back” language this week. Their theory is that he may be trying to reframe obstruction.
As in, I wasn’t trying to obstruct; I was fighting back! Thing is, this isn’t bankruptcy or stiffing contractors-type of legal tangles. He’s in the Bigly League of potential legal troubles.
Here’s my take, and I realize it’s off the wall, but here goes:
Mueller has always been multi-dimensional chess; Cheeto & Circus are playing Candyland.
All this distraction coming out, the attempt to fire Mueller, the Nunes idiocy, the missing texts — Mueller is letting them play out while grand juries in Washington, Virginia and NYC are about to issue indictments on Kushner and Cheeto Jr. for money laundering.
Follow the money. If these two are inducted, I expect Cheeto to give a huge FU to Washington and resign in disgrace. He’ll cut a deal for these two bumpkins — he’s tired of having to actually think and wants his old life back.
From your fingers to God’s ears! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
He won’t resign because he can’t be arrested as long as he is a SITTING President. If he resigns he could be arrested (no longer a sitting president) so no way does he risk it.
He cuts a deal for full immunity to save the kiddies, saving his hide and his family. The rest of his Congressional cronies, as well as anyone else complicit (Carter Paige, Mike Flynn et al) can hang in the wind as far as Cheeto is concerned.
Oh, and Pence gives him a full pardon.
Nixon never went to jail, but all those enablers to his coverup did time.
As I said back during his Middle East trip – if he were smart, he would just have Air Force One detour to Dubai and stay there, happily golfing. They apparently don’t extradite.
I’m intrigued by the strong rumors that Mueller has turned another key witness.
This is timed to send a message to McGahn, or else McGahn has already flipped and it’s meant to convey that to Trump.
He’s toast!
Isn’t is curious that whenever an unarmed black man is fatally shot by police officers, Trump, his supporters and Fox News all start waxing political about how we all need to “respect law enforcement”? And if they’re squirming and fleeing, they MUST be guilty.
But as soon as the noose begins to tighten on ol’ Donnie Two Scoops, the same people will use every dirty trick in the book to portray the FBI as full of evil, Deep State democrats (or republicans without a shred of professional integrity) out for blood.
There is no low these hypocrites won’t stoop to to keep their supremacy.
I feel like we are living in an episode of the Twilight Zone. How can Trump get away with what he does?? It’s like once someone drinks the “Trump Kool aid” they turn into a zombie and everything he says they just nod and agree. It makes me want to bang my head against a wall. I don’t get it!!!!
Look up
Milton Erickson hypnosis Trump
or
Ericksonian hypnosis Trump
Weird but plausible. Look for Ronald Reagan also for similar discussion of another baffling choice for President. Apparently the word salads common to both are actually helpful in literally entrancing people. Some say Trump was trained, others say he’s just a natural at it.
I’m wondering what is different about people who don’t end up in a trance state listening to such flim flam men.
FWIW, while a different set of circumstances now, a lot of what is going on right now feels very, very similar to Watergate. Except we really had no idea of the mighty powers of the prosecutors back then. As in, never ever did I think that former Attorney General John Mitchell would see the inside of a jail cell. But he did, along with oh so may others.
This whole business of Team Trump running trial balloons as to what is a crime and what is not a crime was all done then. Legal language was parsed, executive privilege was claimed, etc. All to no avail in the end.
Trump has bigtime troubles and so do many, many people around him. Some of them may not realize this yet, but those who have retained legal counsel will know this by now.
I just wonder when it is going to dawn on Trump what a precarious position he is in. It is obvious his lawyers have been shading the truth with him – remember they actually told him this would all be over with by Christmas.
Trump’s best bet would be to do the same as Nixon. Set up a pardon deal with Pence in exchange for a resignation,