The Academy Awards show is usually the show of the year when it comes to pre-taped comedy sketches, because they have the time, money and inclination to do so, I guess. But at last night Grammys, host James Corden – who is CBS’s golden goose at this point – did several taped skits, and I didn’t hate the idea of it. There was one bit which was particularly funny – the “auditions” to do the celebrity narration on the audiobook of Michael Wolff’s Fire and Fury. Fire and Fury is the tell-all about Donald Trump’s first year as president. It’s sold millions of copies already, and Trump comes across as an ignorant, treasonous buffoon (which is #Truth). Here’s the full video:
The Hillary Clinton cameo was amazing, but can we just take a second and also enjoy Cardi B? “This is how he lives his life??” Isn’t that all of us?? But yes, Hillary Clinton did a funny bit at the Grammys and the Deplorables were so butthurt about it. Nikki Haley, the ambassador to the United Nations, GOT ON TWITTER to complain about it:
I disagree. That part ruined the Grammys. Such a shame.
— Nikki Haley (@nikkihaley) January 29, 2018
I have always loved the Grammys but to have artists read the Fire and Fury book killed it. Don’t ruin great music with trash. Some of us love music without the politics thrown in it.
— Nikki Haley (@nikkihaley) January 29, 2018
Triggered snowflake says what? I’m sorry, but if you’re a Deplorable, were you really sitting there, watching Kendrick Lamar and Childish Gambino and Rihanna DOING THE GWARA GWARA DANCE and thinking “wow this is so apolitical”? Nikki Haley is just mad because Wolff insinuated that she banged Donald Trump. Girl, we see you.
Screencaps from CBS.
I thought it was tacky, to be honest. Maybe if it had been done in a different context. I have no issue with people attacking Trump (although if gets pretty tiring in awards shows), but having the person who lost the election against him do it made her look unprofessional and petty. Just my opinion, I’m sure you all loved it.
I mean … sure. If that’s your opinion. Nobody has to like it. But calling THIS tacky is a bit ironic, no? Considering who this book is about. Tacky is his life motto. Also, she’s a private citizen. How is this unprofessional? As unprofessional as the UN ambassador tweeting about it?
It’s not a competition, a lot of people can look unprofessional at the same time. US politics have turned into a joke thanks to Donald and now they are following his lead.
Yeah, I don’t get the OP choosing the term unprofessional. She’s not acting in any official capacity, she’s a private citizen. It has nothing to do with a profession. Call her tacky or petty or whatever you want. But professional has nothing to do with it.
Mina, I think you’re taking this way too seriously. It’s the Grammys.
@Juls I believe we have entered the alt-Universe where Hillary Clinton is President. Hence, “unprofessional”
Hillary Clinton is a politician. She doesn’t need to be the President to be professional. She’s a leader of opinion, and as such, when saying something publicly, she’s not speaking just as a private citizen like you and I are. It’s not a surprise that Trump won when people have lost the ability to be objective and embrace a nuanced debate that doesn’t involve mocking others.
@Mina Please re-read your last sentence. Irony is truly dead.
Also, I just got “this is why Trump won” on my #MAGA Bingo card, so thanks!
I’ve been reading the book and is extremely well researched, full of attributed quotes, and quite clearly sourced mainly by Kushner, Bannon and Walsh. It is a must read for every America because it shows the depth of corruption of this administration. Kudos to Grammys for making this book accessible to a wider audience.
Mina, thank you for that. I wasn’t 100% sure but you’re a troll, right?
@Mina: Hillary Clinton WAS a politician, dear. WAS being the operative word. Or did I miss the part where she ran for office somewhere in the past 14 months? She is no longer a politician and is no longer accountable to political standards (not that they exist anymore anyway, they don’t ). I think you missed the part where this was just a cheeky joke that evolved since the book was released because people were saying how funny it would be, how irked Trump would be, if she were to narrate the audio book. Funny or not is up for debate. But I stand by my assertion that she is not a politician. She is a private citizen, and you tried to shame her for being unprofessional. The term does not apply in this case.
I’m glad to see a few more central opinions on this site to be honest. We won’t understand each other without real discussion. For a while there it was an echo chamber.
@tamingroman, reality has a tendency to create an echo chamber for people who live in it.
@Mina don’t let facts get in your way, but Ms. Clinton hasn’t been a politician for over a year, and I think any rules on professionalism and tackiness in politics went out the window with the P*(*(grabber and sh()*(hole comments from the president.
You should take a lesson from your Furer, oops leader President Donald Trump, and stop being so sensitive and learn to take a joke. After all it’s just locker room talk.
@noway, I’m sorry, is it really that black and white? She doesn’t like one thing Hillary did so that automatically means she’s anti Hillary and pro Trump? I’m the sensitive one? I don’t care if they do anti Trump skits, I just don’t think it’s good for Hillary to appear in one, or at least not in this context, but I guess it’s impossible to talk when you don’t bother to read.
Politicians aren’t just people in office. Hillary is taking a break, but until she announces her retirement, she’s still a politician, as she’s been most of her life. Her opinions hold weight to the public and she holds weight in her party. She’s not a regular private citizen, let’s not pretend she is. Why do you all keep coming up with the “Trump is worse!” response? We all know he’s worse. That’s why I, at least, don’t like it when people I respect act like he would.
And lucky for me, Donald is not my Furer nor my President. Sorry you have to deal with him.
@noway How did we go from a disagreement about whether or not Hillary should have participated in a comedy sketch to Hitler? Mina has not said anything even remotely racist or hateful, nor has she said any words in support of Trump. Accusing her of being a Nazi or a Trump supporter is inappropriate.
I think it’s pretty funny so many take issue with thia. Holding Hillary to these standards like she holds any public office. Like she’s not simply a private citizen. Like she’s making up these words. She’s not. She’s doing a skit as a private citizen reading from a book someone else wrote on the president.
Hold her to those standards. But no one can act so righteously like she’s a public servant attacking our president in unjustified spite. Those people can take a seat
It’s exactly this sort of petty gibes that got Trump elected in the first place lowering herself to his level is beneath her …or at least I thought it was until the ‘bit**’ clip and this.
It’s a bit rich she was participating in a show purportedly championing #metoo , in any capacity considering her own husband’s sexual assault allegations and the way she trashed the women who came forward when she knew exactly what Bill was capable of. On that note something nice to say…….her face lift/peel turned out well she looks much fresher and years younger.
This is tacky? Please. When we consider who the Cheeto Demon is tacky is what he deserves.
He might deserve it, the audience that wants some real plan to deal with his government doesn’t. Only in the US you’d have a former presidential candidate mock the current president in a music award show and think it’s cool and a thing to be celebrated. I thought it just lowers the level of your politics even more.
“Only in the United States.” Girl, please. Anybody who has opened a book knows that history is filled with petty ass nonsense.
I’d love to hear some current examples.
I thought Google was a pretty simple search engine myself, but let me get you a few links:
https://www.alternet.org/world/6-global-politicians-who-believe-it-or-not-are-petty-trumpster
https://listverse.com/2016/04/06/10-hilariously-petty-acts-by-politicians-leaders/
I’m also really going to really blow your mind here, but people can enjoy petty humor that punches up at a corrupt administration and also be working in the field to take him down. It’s not actually the job of CELEBRITIES to do that, either. That’s the job of the voters.
I guess Google forgot to include the words current and President in your search 🙂
(Also I don’t think you want to put in the same breath Hillary and a murderer dictator like Nicolás Maduro, do you?)
You what is tacky and unprofessional? Making baseless claims about Hillary’s emails and her Russia collusion. You know what else is tacky and unprofessional? Referring to your opponent as “crooked Hillary” after you have won the election. You know what is funny? Hillary auditioning to narrate a book about Trump’s corruption.
See the difference?
Ah, I see. You want examples, but you want to keep changing the parameters so that you can prove yourself right. Enjoy your sealioning on your own. I’m done feeding the troll.
Oh I agree, nothing is tackier than Trump. But that doesn’t mean other things can’t be tacky too. I’m sorry that word came out as so offensive, I just felt that she looked like a sore loser and I didn’t like seeing her in that role. I get it’s a joke, and it is funny, but it’s just my personal opinion that at this time we need leaders who take the high ground to show how it should be. It only makes the insulting party look fooler when their oppositor doesn’t go down to their level. And even if Hillary never competes in another election again, she will remain a public figure and likely her opinion will remain important in world politics. I don’t know, it just made me uncomfortable, but I do get that Trump gets out the worst in people, it’s hard not to.
Mina, ffs, cut it out.
Ending with, “I’m sure you all loved it” is super condescending.
I had another word in mind but I’ll go with “condescending”, too. 😉
I’m just flabberflustered that russian trolls or right wingNUtz are here on the CB thread. Must they infuse EVERY molecule of God’s green earth?
toDaze, I have noticed that whenever there’a a Hillary post, the trolls come here in force. She seems to trigger them more than any other name. Lol.
The OP’s (Mina) comment is one where you want to tell that person to just f*ck off with their nonsense, but know you need go high when they go low. [tip my hat to Michelle AND Hillary]
Is it? I didn’t mean it in a condescending way. But seeing the responses to this, and how they just choose to say I’m “triggered” and a “deplorable” (when I’ve made it clear I think Trump is the worst) just because I expect higher standards from the people who want to run a country sure frames it like that. People do seem to love it because it’s against Trump, which I get. I just wish it had been in a better context, like a talk show, and hopefully with no Hillary in it. The best thing she has going for her at the moment is showing how different she is from Trump.
@mina – Non American here , and I agree with you, it was tacky.
Before i’m accused of being a russian troll, i’ll just put it out there that I’m an African Muslim woman, you know one of those terrorists coming from shit hole countries.
I love this site, but i feel like on some subjects it has turned into an echo chamber. The accusation of russian troll is pretty similar to the republican rallying cry of “snowflake”.
Generally people here are intelligent women/men, so surely it should be possible to have civil discourse without dismissing a dissenting opinion as trolling, otherwise the world is looking at another 4 years of trump.
To get back to Hilary, i dont understand this idolization of her, she had her chance, she lost. Surely the time now is to look for another leader to replace the monstrosity you have in the white house instead of dragging her out at every occasion.
I loved it, and I’ve also locked horns with Mina on other threads before (don’t recall the subject, just the username) but c’mon. She’s not a troll because she doesn’t like seeing senior politicians do comedy skits. She just has a different take on culturally appropriate behaviour.
If she starts all heiling the gross ginger thing, then I’ll stop thinking it’s within the realms of okay. But as is, surely she can just agree to disagree with us?
I thought it was funny and appropriate because she’s mocking his unsuitability, and his conduct in the role. The day we all stop doing that is the day we should give up. Sometimes, humour’s all you have left.
Good God. People can have voted for Hillary Clinton, and still not think everything she does is perfect. Are we not allowed to admit that people we like and respect do the occasional thing that we don’t care for? Mina is allowed her opinion, and it doesn’t mean she’s a troll or deplorable. Trolls aren’t other just commenters who disagree with you.
People, this part of the thread was about the OP’s condescending comment to other readers, not about Hillary. So, some of you might want to get off your high horse. And, yes, IMO, her comment was condescending.
And lets be clear that she did win the most votes. If not for a system put in place to protect our “peculiar institution” we would not be in this mess.
Ladies and gents, we found the triggered deplorable.
And it was the very first comment!
They are out in full force on this thread! Clearly Trump supporters.
My thoughts too. Waiting and rushing to comment immediately. This is how they live their life.
“Clearly Trump supporters” …or people who feel comfortable expressing that they may not agree with every single thing Hillary Clinton does. Guys, it’s okay, seriously. It doesn’t mean you like Trump or are a bitter Bernie bro if you go, “huh. You know what? That thing Hillary did? Didn’t care for it. Still voted for her. Still would prefer she was president.”
i’m so sick and tired of hillary clinton having to uphold some moral highground about donald trump. go on – be tacky HilRod. if i were her – i would still be on a bender of booze and pills, sitting in an empty pool wearing my inaugural ball dress. let her live.
Ugh, yes. It’s like people think Hillary Clinton, who is not elected to any office right now, nor is she running for any office now or in the future, needs to hold herself to a more “professional” standard than the actual sitting president of the United States because she’s a woman. She has to either go away and never be seen or heard from again because she lost, or she has to be seen as supporting the president in every thing he does and never saying anything that could be described as politically motivated or disparaging of the president bc she’s a “political figure.” It doesn’t make sense. She is the most highly recognizable face of the opposition to trump—she ran against him—yet she’s not allowed to do anything that would show that she continues to oppose him strongly.
Nowadays politicians in and out of office or running for office in the US often get interviewed on late night comedy shows or do cameos on comedies. Trump himself has done it during the campaign. It’s really pretty normal here and has been for a long time, maybe it’s a cultural thing. Americans like their politicians to have a sense of humor. Sometimes they take part in silly little skits or activities in the process. I imagine most people don’t respond by thinking they can’t ever take the person seriously again.
In this case, people unhappy with the book are likely to be disturbed by the whole skit, not just Hillary’s participation. I thought her cameo was funny especially since she’s known to be a reader, and of course because people have been joking for a while that she should narrate the audio book. I don’t think it is likely to hurt her image with people who don’t already hate her.
Pardon me but the “tacky” prize goes to Donald Trump. He gets away with everything gross and rude and she can do nothing right as far as some people are concerned.
I couldn’t agree more.
She’s technically a private citizen now, she can act how she wants to. All she did was read from the book. Actually, Cardi B is the one who made me laugh the hardest LOL
Yeah Cardi B was the one who truly made the sketch. Hillary’s reveal was her part of the joke, and her timing was fine. But Cardi B 😂 she is all of us!
I watched the clip, and while I’m no fan of either Clinton or Trump, I found it to be innocent fun. It would have been better as a Twitter thing because I agree that all the political grandstanding at award events have become tiring. They suck all the fun I used to find in the events. I just want to see the music, the clothes, or for the Oscars, the clips.
I always have a big party when I watch the Oscars, and lately I started making Bingo cards for the guests. “First Political Speech”, “First Speech about immigration”, etc. I also have guess cards about how many times Trump, Hillary and Obama will be mentioned. The winners all get a prize. That’s the ONLY way I can make award shows any fun anymore. We all get dressed up in long gowns, eat great food, and basically laugh ourselves silly with these Bingo Cards and guessing games. Otherwise it’s just boring where you feel lectured to all night from a bunch of people who live behind gates. Just have fun, Celebrities! Stop trying to be the soundbite. That’s what twitter is for. Let us have our evening of gawking over dresses and great music or acting. If I didn’t have my party games, these shows would be completely unwatchable to me.
I think that it is the content of the book that is causing people to think that this is “tacky.” It would not be considered tacky for President Bush to read excerpts from a factual book out loud about President Obama, bc that book would just be full of President obama living his professional, moral, family man type life and getting things done in a professional, sober, intelligent kind of way. The “tacky” part of this whole thing is the stuff in the book which is a factual account of how president trump lives his life and governs. He is doing tacky, stupid things every single day. If people cannot read an account of the president’s day-to-day life in the Oval Office without it being “tacky,” then there is a problem with how the president is leading his life.
Yes yes this
Politics have been a part of award shows forever, not sure why a talk show would have been different. I know many examples recent and historically, because I remember. No, I’m not doing a google search to prove it either. Do your own. I can understand maybe some didn’t think it was funny, but why are people making such a big deal about it. Honestly, it’s nothing new. Look up some 70-80’s SNL skits, Rowan and Martin’s Laugh In, and the Smother’s Brothers, this was extremely tame compared to some of that. I’d also bet the ratings for those shows were higher than the Grammys this year. TV was a bigger deal back then.
As far as this being only in America we celebrate this kind of humor or not humor, incorrect twofold. First I don’t think people are celebrating it. It was one little skit, and some thought it was funny. I wouldn’t call it celebrating. Also, for some modern examples internationally, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Tony Blair having choice and somewhat comedic words about Cameron. Keep in mind it was a Brit, James Corden, who wrote the skit you are talking about.
Oh come on, now. It wasn’t as if she was reading passages about pee pee tapes and Stormy Daniels. It was such a mild joke, FFS.
I am so thankful that in the US, we have the right to mock the president in power.
“Only in the US you’d have a former presidential candidate mock the current president in a music award show and think it’s cool and a thing to be celebrated. I thought it just lowers the level of your politics even more.”
@Mina you said it perfectly well it is only in America that this happens. This country is a laughing stock to the rest of the world. America and Americans can not seem to separate between politics and entertainment or even celebrity life. I said it the other day when they were busy calling for Oprah to contest for presidency simple because she gave an amazing speech. I think Americans are Infatuated with celebrities. I am not American and do not like trump but I think they still haven’t learnt their lessons from the mistake of making trump their president. And if care is not taken the mistake repeat itself. Mina don’t worry about them calling you a troll or deplorable those of us who have different opinions are viewed as trolls or deplorable.
“I think they still haven’t learnt their lessons from the mistake of making trump their president.” The problem with Trump isn’t the fact that he’s a celebrity.
I wish Hillary Clinton was still a politician.
I didn’t watch the Grammys or the readings, but at this point, just like the apologies for having worked with a predator, this gets tiring at some point and I find it annoying to see Hillary down with the cool crowd. It’s easy and numbing, a sort of feel-good moment for the rich artists and the crowds. Hillary didn’t work out. Let’s focus on a strong Democrat to fight Trump because no one seems to be able to know what’s going on and what the next move is (and Oprah ain’t it).
Movin’on.
Maybe you should watch it before you criticize. Plus it was funnier in the moment, when you didn’t know which celeb would pop up next.. then BAM Hillary. The skit was poking fun at the Spoken Word Grammy, too.
Ok, I’ll watch it. But I stand by my separation of State & Celebrity.
“Separation of state and celebrity”? Really? Apprentice, anyone? Alleged trophy wife all glammed up in tabs? Now in the WH? Really?
@Slowsnow Art has always portrayed and mocked politics though.
@SoulSPA THat’s exactly what I mean. If we learn anything with this stupid 45 is that we need to be very clear and on where politics end and entertainment begins.
But this segment is getting a bit crazy for me, I really hate it when people blindly pile on a subject.
@Annabelle Bronstein,
I am an art historian so yes of course, I agree with you. But when politicians enter the artistic realm – I’ll pick a neutral example, neither American not British, say Sarkozy in France for instance, it’s the world upside down isn’t it? The King is not also the Fool. The President is not also the cartoonist. The candidate is not also the political journalist.
I am all for Trudeau having a Superman T-Shirt for the journos on Halloween and then going about his business, but this celebrity bath is a bit much for me and looks dangerous.
“Art has always portrayed and mocked politics though.”
ESPECIALLY music. music and politics have been intertwined since there WAS music. sheesh.
“But when politicians enter the artistic realm –”
HRC is a private citizen. James Corden is a satirist; the skit is satire. Are you saying satire as art form should be excluded unless it cleaves to certain restrictions? Sounds rather…er…fascist.
@whatWHAT
I’ll say it again. That’s not the point at all. Music or any form of art have always been in part activist and with a social conscience. I mean you could have a white alt-right rapper right now (probably exists) singing the praises of Trump (as horrible as it may sound). That’s art’s role. The politician is not a musician and I am reacting to any politician (Sarkozy, Trump, Obama) being way too involved in the entertainment world. The King is not the Fool and the Fool is not the King.
I see what you mean. But I think politicians ARE actors now, especially since the proliferation of television news. And also with the blurred lines of reality TV (are the Kardashians artists? They arguably play roles and create storylines. Shudder).
I do think this skit was funny, but it could’ve been elevated if the cover of the book had been blank, leaving the audience to speculate who the source material was about.
@Annabelle Bronstein
I watched it after your comment and yes, it was funny!
Sigh * Politicians are indeed actors now especially with social media and the internet. I do prefer to think that this will all be regulated soon. Should you be allowed to produce reality segments that are complete fictions or say things on the net that would have you arrested is you said them on the streets? But that’s a big discussion isn’t it.
At any rate, at the end of the day I have to agree that it was funny to see HC behind that book although I don’t agree with the principle!
@slowsnow it’s a real problem. I think sometimes about the shamelessness of the reality TV culture, and how it is connected to the shamelessness of Trump and his terrifying rise to power. Our culture and our arts are glorifying fame and wealth over everything else! In that case I agree with you that this particular marriage of entertainment and politics makes me feel queasy. I worry that our politicians will be elected due to name recognition and how telegenic their families are. ‘House of Cards’ was beginning to explore this phenomenon before I stopped watching.
But yeah, I thought the skit was funny too. Not something that would stick with me, but fluffy fun
I wish she would mimic the Obamas, they are in with the cool crowd but do not engage in any of this nonsense, and they have by far gotten more abuse than HRC ever did. She’s sooo much better than this and I really wish she wouldn’t stoop to Trumps level, it honestly just tarnishes her credibility in my eyes.
She doesn’t “engage in nonsense” any more or less than the Obamas do. Remember how Obama poked fun at Trump being the nominee on late night with his “How do you like me now, GOP?” It was on point and funny.
Hillary is doing nothing to tarnish her credibility. People love to say that she is, though, and it’s ridiculous.
Take a look at old White House Correspondents Dinners (check YouTube) when Obama was POTUS – he was just as outrageous as the rest of them (I think he could have a second career in standup comedy). He’s also been interviewed by comedians on late night shows. It really is normal to do such things, whether you personally like it or not.
Next move is, Dems have quite a few younger upcoming Representatives and Senators (like Joe Kennedy) and if any of them run against Trump, good luck Cheeto pants. Hillary won’t run again and this was one of the signs she is done running.
I like a separation of celebrity and politics too, but to a point. I don’t care if the candidates do silly skits on shows, just don’t vote for them because of that. If we ever elect another person who has never done anything like the position they are trying to get we need to ask and demand critical information about how they will govern. This includes detailed experience about their management, negotiations, organizational, and budgeting skills. Honestly, I feel no one asked or demanded those things from Trump. People just assumed because he is a “billionaire” and has a company he must have managed tons of people. His business wasn’t really run like that, and the ones that were went bankrupt. He really was more of a mom and pop shop which sold his name on buildings and golf courses now. He actually owns very little direct property, and a lot he doesn’t even manage he outsources. New Yorker’s know this, but not sure average joe did. I think we should demand more from the candidates, even if it is Oprah or someone like her.
“Unprofessional and petty”… yes, these are the words I think of when I look at THIS candidate. *rollseyessohard*
Trump is that and much much worse, but that is exactly why Hillary should not stoop to his level. This is something he would have done.
That’s what I feel. And, unpopular opinion here probably, but I also found that Obama was way too into celebs. They were into him for sure but at some point there is a healthy separation. I propose separation between religion & State and the Celeb world & State. Particularly in the USA and Italy (from what I know) people seem to confuse persona, political ability and real character. In my country this would have been the occasion to deride someone (not saying my country is perfect though).
As for Obama being too into celebs, eh, that’s human. After all, here we are a gossip site. If you’re asking politicians to not be into celebs, at least publicly, I get it, but it’s also unrealistic and not the worst issue facing us. I think you’re closer to the mark on noting that there seems to be an issue for people to conflate politicians and celebrity. But, to me, that responsibility lies with the voter,
@slowsnow He was also way into bombing Yemen. And because of his celebrity persona we turned an eye.
@Xi Tang
I don’t remember about Yemen but I learnt with the This American Life podcast a while ago that he deported much more people than any other president. I said this to an American friend and he could not believe me. Obama had his good and his not so good side – he also did not have a majority to help – but he was conservative not in a political sense but in a social sense. Thus the celeb fascination.
+1 Mina and SLOWSNOW. Critiquing a Hillary move seems to automatically deem one a troll or Deplorable.
I’m tired of repeating myself on this subject so I’ll just leave this right here: https://www.snopes.com/obama-deported-more-people/
Context, context, context, people.
@Kitten, I read your document thanks. I admire Obama a great deal. He was the only candidate whose book I read. I could listen to his speeches ll day. But he did not decrease the deportations, neither did he change policies. If anything it became more bureaucratic and more involved in separating by status. It’s not because I like someone (and would have voted for him were I American) that I don’t have a critical sense. The podcast is fantastic and if I could remember which one it is I would put the link here. In it, one of the immigration guards is Mexican, a former immigrant. As usual, they do journalism, and have every side of this quite painful story which is really interesting.
The way you all hold Hillary Clinton to a higher standard than any other candidate in history…
She must behave (as a private citizen…not likely to be elected ever again..) better than the President in the White House (set aside that he is one who has ADD and eats burgers in a filthy room surrounded by three TV screens and psychophants….) I remember that no one blamed the President Obama for Benghazi, Libya, Syria…Clinton was not top dog and final say in foreign affairs must stop at the President Obama but let’s assign total blame to Hillary—the woman! The woman must internalise all of society’s misogyny and hold her head up like Joan of Arc on the cross—dignity while you burn in fire is what we expect! No less! How dear you be human, funny take part in pop culture, live, breathe? How dare you, Mrs Clinton!!!!
This, is how the Orange Twat was able to win….the unreasonable standards that you hold her to. She can never measure up…not even to the turd in the Oval.
@Fredsmother
+1,000 to everything you said. Clearly, a lot of women, some even on this site, have internalized this misogyny and are wearing it loud and proud.
I am far from a deplorable and am further to the left than HRC, but I think when we no longer critique candidates and politicians even those we like then we are as bad as the right. She was not everyone’s choice, and this isn’t about Bernie or whatever else. It is purely focusing on her.
Not being a fan of hers does not make a person a troll or a rightwinger.
Obama made mistakes, but I still adore him.
She is unfairly maligned, but she is also justly criticized often too.
Why is it the Dems have to always behave? Its double standard placed on them and hope they do start breaking it. They are many times in many situations played “too nice”.
Hillary didn’t stoop to Trump’s level. Only if you think saying, “… you can grab them by the p(*)*,” and calling other nations of color shi(*)* countries is the same as being in a skit on an award show reading a book which says mean comments about the Presidents. Those are also just the words he said, not the actions he has done. Not quite the same level to me. Even if I believed your argument, which I don’t, this is apples to oranges. The degree is so much worse it is incomparable. @Fredsmother is right, the internalization of different norms for women is unbelievable. I’m personally still upset that Hillary got most of the blame and punishment for Bill’s affairs. Trump even said she enabled him. Can’t wait for when he does truly get caught with his affair, cause let’s be honest that man has never been completely faithful to anyone, bet he blames Melania. Hope that finally doesn’t work.
@Isabelle: I think it all goes back to the old “Earn human decency and basic respect from the oppressors by not hurting their fee-fees” reasoning.
I’m so tired of people saying “the Dems need to get it together”. The Dems WON the election by a large margin. The GOP only won due to the Electoral College, and just barely. And I suspect we will find that just barely was due to Russian tampering (I mean actual vote tampering, not just propaganda).
Let the local Dem races play out in midterms, and then promote the national candidate. Locally is where Dems always shine.
PS- I think the Kennedy kid may get the push to the front as the Dems new stat, hence him doing the SOTU response. I’m not sure I like this idea.
Since the election system in place is not just about popular vote, then no, they didn’t win.
Three million more votes. That is called losing the popular vote by a historic margin.
Yes, by why doesn’t that count, then? The system is a representative one, not a popular one. It’s not a surprise Hillary had more votes, considering many of the more populous states are on her side. But that wasn’t enough to win. The Democratic Party took a big hit in the election, not just because their candidate wasn’t elected but because the worst possible candidate got elected. Something went wrong there. They do need to get it together and understand why that happened to revert it. That’s politics and that’s how you build a better country, with some self criticisim.
Since Russians tampered with the electoral process, it’s really impossible to say, because it wasn’t truly a democratic process.
Best not to feed the TROLL.
True that. You don’t have to like how things work, but it was set up in the Constitution, so if you don’t like it, you gotta go through the congress. You can’t just say, “I think it sucks”.
James Madison had a good point in my opinion, which was a mixture of the popular vote WITH the E.C., which was State Based. Basically, Iowa has the same rights as New York as far as elected reps go, even though they don’t have the same population.
If you don’t like it, just pressure congress to have only people in California, Florida, and New York vote and be done with it, because that is where the majority of the population lives. Seems to be unfair to places like Alaska, and Wyoming, all those fly over states though. Anyhoo, I didn’t agree with the Electoral College until I read more about it. YMMV
@ TamingRoman: I agree with you to a point. But then you also have to consider that the number of electoral votes per state has not been updated in a long time. Why do voters in flyover states have 1 electoral vote per 150,000 people and California only has 1 per 900,00 people? Is that fair? To counter your argument of only letting the most populated states vote, I put this question to you: Why not just let the people in Ohio, Florida, North Carolina vote, you know, the swing states? At the end of the day, only their votes matter, right? They hold the rest of the country hostage in presidential elections, no? The ideal way to do it would be to split electoral college votes in every state. Only a few states do that now. You see, people like me, that live in a state where 60-70% of people vote one way, my vote doesn’t count. At all. Because the winner takes ALL. I don’t have a voice in presidential elections. That is not fair. Split the electoral vote by percentage. This will force candidates to pay attention to all states, not just swing states or those with large populations. If popular vote will never be the case, at least I will not feel like my vote meanss nothing but another tally in a popular vote that doesn’t matter. That’s what Trump doesn’t get. It wasn’t 3 million illegal votes that cost him the popular vote. Its people like me, in red states that voted for Hillary, where she won 30-40% of the popular vote that added up to those numbers. Does he really think that 100% of people that voted in red States voted for him?!
That’s interesting, @Juls. Seems like the democratic process in the US needs a lot of tweaking. I guess Trump’s government wouldn’t get in there because it’s not convenient for him, but shouldn’t this be tackled at some point? Is anyone making any serious proposals to better the system to make it a little more representative? Although I don’t really understand the whole primaries system either.
” Basically, Iowa has the same rights as New York as far as elected reps go, even though they don’t have the same population.”
No, no they don’t. The Reapportionment Act of 1929 totally f*cked up the electoral college and capped the number of representatives. The current electoral college, therefore, has been knocked out of balance giving far too much power to the less populous states. California, New York should have dozens more representatives than they do.
@tamingroman, the current electoral is based upon a primarily rural situation that no longer exists. It needs to be reconfigured because right now the elk in Montana have more say than I do. I do understand the concerns about basing it solely on population. As others have pointed out, there does need to be adjustments to reflect population because some districts are underrepresented in Congress. I think it also needs to be restructured to reflect the states that contribute more financially and those that are basically welfare states. Massachusetts is similar in population size to several other states yet we pay more. We should have more say.
The 2020 Census will cause some changes to the electoral allotment – the 2022 mid-terms will be the first national election using the updated census counts, and then the 2024 Presidential election. Some states will gain seats, some will lose – but it may not be the ones we all think. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2017-05-22/rust-belt-losing-steam-in-next-census
There is a reason the Republicans want to limit immigration, shore up manufacturing in the rest belt, and are fighting like hell to control state houses. If they can cut international immigration (who vote Dem most of the time), their base will keep their influence. If the rust belt states stop losing people, they’ll keep their electoral counts, and if Republicans control the state houses, they’ll control how the congressional districts get re-drawn after the census. They know they will ultimately lose the battle of demographics, but they aren’t going to surrender without a fight.
He’s in the House and the House doesn’t tend to lead to the bigger offices like the Senate or a governorship do. He is a rising star. He’s bright, speaks beautifully with passion, and truly cares about people. He is a sweet, charming, kind man. I look forward to hearing his response but I don’t expect him to be a national push. As everyone keeps saying on here, the DNC needs to come up with new leaders but those people can’t just be the ones running for president. There needs to be new energy down in the trenches, down in the congressional committees and people need to see them and know that they are there. He is one of those who can provide that energy. But as for moving up, well, it is a bit crowded above him here in MA. Warren is probably staying where she is. I always thought Markey would retire after one term in the Senate after sleeping for a few decades down in the House but he is now re-energized and is the leader fighting Trump’s net neutrality policy. He might not be ready to retire. And if either Markey or Warren do leave the Senate, Kennedy is just one of several who will jostle for the seat and, at this point, I think Seth Moulton or Katherine Clark would beat him. And those are just two of the names that would vie for it.
Interesting, light purple, I was reading about him this weekend and wondered to myself if the MA CBers had opinions on him.
Could you also see him being a kind of Barack 2.0, with his Kennedy legacy, speaking ability and idealistic background kind of pushing him ahead of those lifetime politicians? I feel like we need someone like that again, and if anyone has the golden boy vibes, sounds like this guy.
Katherine and Seth aren’t lifetime politicians. Katherine led the House sit-in on gun control with John Lewis last year. Seth is an Iraqi war veteran.
Thanks for the perspective. I like to know there is a broad bench because it also bodes well for governorships in the future.
We do have a broad bench here in MA within our congressional delegation. Even those who have held seats for decades have been energized in the fight to preserve our democracy. Jim McGovern made some of the strongest challenges to the GOP attack on the ACA and he’s the one who took and distributed the pictures of the GOP House members rolling pallets of beer into the House and drinking while voting to repeal ACA. We also have a rising star AG in Maura Healey, who is absolutely dynamic and filed legal challenges to just about everything Trump does.
And the electoral college was created to protect slavery, so no surprise it have us this tubby racist and his deplorable minions.
Yep, yeppity, yep, @aang
Re: Kennedy — parties generally don’t give this task to someone considered a rising star; here’s an article about the “state of the union curse”:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/28/kennedy-state-of-the-union-response-rebuttal-curse-216542
I feel like this bears repeating: Politicians do not put themselves in office. If Democrats do not want to show up to the elections, or independent party members don’t bother to do the grassroots work to get candidates in office, they have nobody to blame but themselves for handing Republicans the majority. Democracy is the responsibility of the people, not a political party.
Joe Kennedy won’t run next election maybe in 12 years or so by the will make himself present and visual. no doubt is will run someday for the Presidency.
I think he could make a compelling VP pick.
as long as we keep up the nepotism of championing new kennedy’s and throwing our support behind septuagenarians, the dems will not get anywhere.
i’m sick of STILL hearing about bernie and hilary as future political prospects. NO MORE BOOMERS and ffs NO MORE KENNEDYS! we need to move forward as a party. those two issues are reaching way back.
I don’t think we can keep a person from running for office because he’s had too many politicians in his family tree. Each individual has to be evaluated on their own merits.
Rapunzel — The 37-year-old Kennedy kid is actually a good speaker. I expect he’ll do well with it.
BET (Black Entertainment Network) will also be running an interesting response on their network at the same time. Hopefully both will be available on YouTube. CNN will be streaming the broadcasted stuff on their web site. Maybe BET will do the same for their show.
Nikki is just mad because every night she has to take a series of scalding hot showers to cut through the cheeseburger grease, hair products, orange stage makeup and rotten stench of shamelessness that comes from allowing a Tangerine Teletubby to sex her up.
Exactly this ^^^
She is embarrassed. LOL
This will follow her for the rest of her life.
magnoliarose Just threw up in my mouth a little because of your deliciously accurate observations.
I felt waves of nausea even visualizing the two of them…EWWWW!
@Magnoliarose, you have a way with words 😂😂😂
OMG! LOL, but I just lost my appetite for that rum cake I was eating! But, seriously, Nikki is a self-hating tool, I give no credibility to anything she says, and I would not be surprised if she and the Orange Blob were kickin’ it. Yuck, did I just say that? Ewwww!
I dont get why they would basically advertise a book. I mean nice for Michael Wolff.
Eh….only if you’ve been living under a rock have you not heard of this book. Trump gave it way more free advertising with all of his bitching & moaning about it before it was even released.
I thought that, but the saturation level of that book was already 100%
I actually wasn’t going to buy it (cheapskate genes) until Trump started yapping about it and trying to keep it from being published. Haven’t even read it yet, it’s sitting in my Kindle library gathering virtual dust.
But I offered to buy a hard copy for my brother if he gets the urge to read it. All because Trump tried to shut it down. Otherwise I would have just listened to interviews and read articles about it, much of it just gives more details about things already reported from anonymous White House sources who were inexplicably delighted to talk to Wolff any time in person. Wolff may be tabloidish but I think he’s accurate.
Because everyone should read it?
The spoken word category is about books. They were probably looking for fodder on which to base a skit, and this was easy.
What is up with Nikki Haley? First the unnecessary public denial of an affair with the president (we all know it’s Hope Hicks). Now pretending she watches the Grammys to defend the “honor” of the Trump. I smell something.
Nikki is problematic. I moved to SC a few years ago, and volunteer with sexual assault and domestic violence non profits in my area. Several staffers have said in passing how Nikki has made comments at press conferences and at meetings in the past to the tune of, “Those problems are low income problems.”
Unsurprising to see her commenting on this (on Twitter, no less).
She had sinking numbers, and it seems her unpopularity in SC is forgotten now. There are many examples of her assy behavior, but the noise is so loud about 45 she has been able to slide under the radar.
Does 45 have it coming? Yes. Is it hypocritical for Nikki Haley to whine about leaving politics out of the show when her fuhrer brings politics into what seems like every subject? Of course.
Having said that, I’d like to see Hilary direct her energies towards helping the party build a clear, cohesive message for the mid-terms instead of taking easy jabs at Mr Orange. Leave that for SNL and other comedic political commentators. The mid-terms are not a lock and so far they don’t look prepared.
My understanding is that part of the approach to the mid-terms is to focus on local concerns. What matters to the constituents in that district? That is how they have been approaching the state races and it proved very successful in Virginia. Former House Speaker Tip O’Neill’s mantra was “All politics is local.” So, there may not be a cohesive message for the mid-terms because they are focusing on taking back the House one district at at time and what works in my district may not work in yours.
I thought a cameo like this was funny precisely because Hillary has generally kept a low profile. It’s not like she spends her days tweeting insults.
Exactly! She has been relatively quiet. She promoted her book, which every person who loses a presidential election does and she disappeared again. And she does have a spoken word Grammy so not entirely out of left field as far at the ceremony.
Hillary is a good sport, with a good sense of humor. Made me laugh!
She also read a pretty tame part of the book, about Trump’s concern about being poisoned and that he thinks getting fast food is protective because it’s pre-made and nobody knows it’s for him. Which is not a crazy idea, actually. He runs with bad dudes who are known for poisoning people who get on their wrong side (Putin’s crew in particular).
“Having said that, I’d like to see Hilary direct her energies towards helping the party build a clear, cohesive message for the mid-terms instead of taking easy jabs at Mr Orange.”
Hillary is a private citizen and when have we ever told a male politician who lost an election what we would like to see him do?? She is not public property and she can do whatever the hell she wants. I’m surprised at these comments. I’m not here for expecting Hillary the private citizen to be a good president. She is not the president, she never will be, so we can leave her alone and let her have fun sometimes if she wants to.
No one knows what Hillary is doing for the Dems. To assume she’s doing nothing, or to direct her in any way ends up being just another way to trash the woman by inferring she is lacking in some manner.
Hillary Clinton: *spends her entire professional life dedicated to law, legislature, DNC funding, and government only to lose to an utterly unqualified moron when she runs for president*
Y’all: WHY ISN’T SHE DOING MORE??
This. Both Hmm and Veronica. ITA.
@Veroncia – that’s painful in its accuracy.
Omg, that is funny! Conservatives bring politics into everything, why shouldn’t we? We shouldn’t be pretending this is a normal presidency.
Trump brought politics and rants against his enemies into his speech to the Boy Scouts. Minor children. Captive audience. No comparison.
I didn’t watch the Grammys, but THAT sketch made my morning! Thanks for posting this! I’m dying laughing LOL
Nikki Haley is jumping on this, because she can get a bundle of free publicity for her 2020 run for president. She is an opportunist who thinks she can get away with being on the Trump team but pretending to be “moderate.” She needs to be shunned for participating in this dangerous farce of an administration. Not to mention how she has insulted our allies in her U.N. speeches.
That may have been her intent but it is backfiring on her. Sure it shores up the extreme right-wing base that hates “Hollywood” but to everyone else she comes off as whiny and anti-First Amendment. And that extreme base isn’t likely to line up behind a minority woman.
Yeah I was just about to say no way will they ally with her simply because she’s a woman of color. I believe she’s Punjabi. The chances of her getting elected for President at this day and age is nil. Trump will probably win again because the people that voted for him will vote for him again. Racist people stay racist.
Can she even run for President in 2020? I would take it if it meant Trump is not running for reelection, but I can’t imagine him willingly backing down from that one.
I doubt Haley is running in 2020. I thought that was the whole point of Trump appointing her UN Ambassador: It neutered a potential 2020 rival.
By the way, just like Hillary was head and shoulders above the man who won so was Despacito ahead of the song that won! Despacito should have won something at the Grammys. It was kind of sickening that it didn’t.
It’s always interesting to read the comments when Hillary is mentioned. Anyways, this was a very funny skit…some of you would know that if you actually watched it before jumping on here and turning it into something it’s not. Bringing up the election (yet again), the midterms, what the Dems need to do, whether Hillz is being professional(???). It’s a two minute skit…calm down, watch it and laugh. I can’t with y’all today…
Same. I haven’t even watched the sketch but these comments are rage-inducing. Leave. Hillary. Alone.
They will NEVER leave her alone. The poor woman will be dead and buried and she’ll still be taking a beating in the press.
Has no one picked up on the fact that everyone in the skit was a Grammy nominee or winner.
The timing of getting Clinton was just great.
Exactly, all Grammy winners. Clever I thought.
And there were all kinds of statements about the me too movement, being heard, the environment, achieving racial harmony etc. The show was filled with “political moments ” but this was the worst? Get out of here.
Wrong spot
@Mina, sorry professional, she is a private citizen, most likely retired. Give me a break. Please point your critique where it’s really needed The Orange Menace of a so called Presidente!
The thread was to comment Hillary’s cameo in the Grammys, I can critique Trump in plenty of other instances that are about him, and I can also critique and think about a lot of other things too because I don’t spend 24 hours a day thinking of Trump.
@Mina, you can critique whoever you want. It’s up to you and nobody else. It just seem wasted on Hillary in this case, at least to me. Whatever, we can’t even laugh anymore in this ridiculous Trump world. The so called Presidente is trying to rip into tiny shreds everything civilized people hold dear and destroy the very fabric of our society, but Hillary gets trashed. Okay.
It doesn’t apply to this, obviously, because this was just a light fun joke and somehow the discussion about it got way too serious, but I do think it’s dangerous if we always measure others’ behaviors against Trump’s. Trump is the lowest of the lowest, but setting our standards to where he is and saying “well, Trump is worse”, “at least it’s not as bad as Trump” is never going to get anyone out of the mess. So yes, Trump needs to be criticized when he does things that deserve it (which is most of the time), but that doesn’t mean we can’t criticize others just because they are not as bad as Trump.
A Foreign Policy article from January 26, 2018 confirming the obvious.
The schemes of Nunes and his ilk are part of a Trump “strategy” in regards to Mueller’s investigation.
A quote from the article: “President Donald Trump pressed senior aides last June to devise and carry out a campaign to discredit senior FBI officials after learning that those specific employees were likely to be witnesses against him as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation, according to two people directly familiar with the matter.”
http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/26/trump-launched-campaign-to-discredit-potential-fbi-witnesses/
Mueller’s investigation needs to be protected.
FFS it was a JOKE at the Grammy’s. It’s not like these people were auditioning for real. Trump STILL talks shit about Hillary on the regular, this was child’s play considering what he’s done.
I despise Trump and feel no sympathy for him in this, but that sketch was still dull.
Wow this excalated real quick
By saying ” real Resistance” in reference to the work of my Superheroines Daphne Caruana Galizia and Anna Politkowskaya I do not want to devalue or negate resistance against DT and his horrid politics.
Resist!
Two things:
1) Hillary absolutely cannot win with some people. Either she’s not doing enough or she’s doing the wrong thing or she just needs to GO AWAY. Pick one people.
2) She will never cease to be a punching bag for both the far left and far right.
RE: The second point. This is helpful for the right wing because it riles up their base. But I think it’s a terrible idea for the left or just run of the mill Dems to go this route. I supported HRC but I’m not delusional. I know the woman has flaws. However, I find myself rabidly defending her all the time because the hate against her is so out of proportion to her sins. And frankly, it makes me think LESS of a person to see them take cheap shots at her. Particularly now that she’s a private citizen and will never run for office again. Leave the woman alone.
I don’t know if Hilliary had face lift but she looks great so much younger then trump …since audio books are Grammy specific I see no problem with reading from this ( I own the audio version it’s great). What’s funny is she is not reading from her own book on why she lost the election. Just seeing her on this clip makes me feel the loss , and for a qualified women Niki Haley is really something , with trump, she must have ice in her veins to deal with him.
There is a very interesting book written in 1986 called “Amusing Ourselves To Death” it was on the college reading list on media courses for some time, which describes just such a president and just such hysteria and adulation over ‘celebrities’ and anyone with a TV presence and the population being blindsided by fame and notoriety at the expense of logic, common decency and real experience . With those who were ‘traditional politicians’ jumping on the celebrity bandwagon because it works , until it’s hard for the public to separate the wheat from the chaff.
I think some chapters can be found on line and the prediction is that as bad as it all seems now , it will get worse until the country/world sees through the absudity of everything having to be ‘entertaining’ on some level.
The president has been great so far and this reading of fire and fury was just a tacky low blow from the fake news media loving democrats
Tulsi 2020!
I’m truly surprised that NO ONE has mentioned that the punchline was self-deprecating; as in her last line regarding “winning” the audition: “It’s in the bag?” The very line everyone kept repeating regarding the WH after Foolious Caesar won the GOP primary. “It’s in the bag for Hillary” was so oft repeated, that it was made the punchline. How has that been missed by EVERYONE. Everyone missed the joke.