Yesterday, we discussed the Spanish Queen Drama, the most unexpected Easter drama of the week. On Easter Sunday, King Felipe and Queen Letizia attended Easter Mass with their two daughters, Princess Leonor and Princess Sofia. They were also joined by the now-abdicated king and queen, Felipe’s father and mother, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia. As the royal family was leaving the church in Mallorca, Queen Sofia stopped in the middle of the walkout-and-greet to pull the two young princesses towards her, all to pose for some photos. Letizia stepped in between her mother-in-law and the camera and what ensued was like 20 full seconds of intense queen drama. Here’s another video of what happened, and stay for the added bonus clip of Queen Sofia kissing her granddaughter’s head and then Letizia’s wiping away the kiss.
Here’s the isolated clip of the kiss-wipe-away.
A second video has surfaced, in which Queen Letizia appears to wipe away a kiss from Queen Sofia on Princess Leonor's forehead.
Via @estherpalomera pic.twitter.com/gA4awH8Wky— The Spain Report (@thespainreport) April 4, 2018
There are so many theories and opinions about all of this and what’s really happening. After watching it probably 20 times already, I have another opinion: this is part of a long-standing argument between two queens about the role a grandmother should play in her granddaughters’ lives. I think Queen Sofia feels like she should have much more access to her granddaughters, and Letizia continuously argues that no, she’s the mom and she’ll decide who her daughters get to see and when. Anyway, Letizia’s former coworker Imma Aguilar made a public comment and maybe this is like some kind of unofficial palace explanation for what happened. Aguilar told El Circulo:
“I think they are the images of a mother worried about the image of her daughters. I talked to Queen Letizia a while ago, and she is worried and quite desolated by this situation; she is very committed to the care of her daughters, with the protection of their image, she worries who takes photos of them. She worries where they come from, who approaches them… It’s a very motherly reaction. It’s been silly, it’s not a serious issue, nothing has happened, it’s just a natural gesture. She’s not a person who has been educated from the beginning to have a certain public behavior, she’s very committed to her work, her profession, with the role she plays and, as a mother, with her daughters.” Describing Letizia’s response to video, she added: “She has felt affected, she is worried and hurt.”
I’m sure someone buys that version, but it doesn’t make much sense to me considering Letizia was fine with her daughters being photographed outside of the church. In fact, I think that was part of Letizia’s irritation with her mother-in-law – why hold up the church exit for a photo-op when the actual photo spray has been organized for ten feet outside of the church?
From what I’m seeing, the Spanish press is more on Queen Sofia’s side, which is bizarre to me – since when do grandmothers have more rights than mothers? Since when do you side with a grandmother who was grabbing at her (visibly uncomfortable) granddaughters’ arms, shoulders and necks? Sofia is the one who looked like she got angry first, like how dare this daughter-in-law tell me I can’t stop in the middle of church and force my granddaughters to pose for photos?
El Pais had a fascinating read about the disintegration in the relationship between the two queens as well – go here to read. To summarize, when the princesses were very young, Queen Sofia “was accustomed to visiting the girls every so often until it was made clear that she was not welcome, given that her presence interrupted the routine of the young girls.” Queen Sofia was bothered by the fact that Letizia’s mother got to be very involved in her granddaughters’ lives, all while Sofia and Juan Carlos were held at arm’s length. Felipe tried to act as a mediator, and El Pais says that Felipe would often bring his daughters to visit his parents, rather than have his parents visit. Apparently, the relations between “the two families” – Juan Carlos/Sofia and Felipe/Letizia – has been deteriorating for years despite Felipe’s attempts to create a unified familial image. Felipe was the one who personally invited his parents to join them at Easter Mass in Mallorca. But is this truly the story of a mean daughter-in-law and a sad mother-in-law? Or are there so many more layers than that?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Omg this is all so childish and next level petty, I kind of love it.
Don’t know or care whose ‘faulty’ it is, but if you hate each other enough to cause a huge public spectacle, don’t do events together. Simples. If Letty thinks her MIL is bad enough that her kids shouldn’t be photographed with her – don’t turn up to Church together! If Soph thinks Letty is an usurper…don’t turn up to a huge public event with her! I mean, how hard is it to stagger your entrance? If you can control your personal feelings for each other long enough to behave in a dignified way at a public event – around civilians to pay for your everything…get a different job? Amateur hour.
YES!!! You said it so well.
I mean that’s probably the next step; avoid public appearances with granny. To me it just looks like their mother has set boundaries that the grandmother was intentionally and unnecessarily crossing. I think the mother has no choice but to escalate it to avoiding joint public events.
I don’t think Letizia, who has been in the public eye for 15 years, would do this without provocation. I’m of the mind that Sofía crossed a line she shouldn’t have, Letizia walked into the shot to stop it, and instead of playing it off gracefully, Sofía manhandled the kids trying to get her photo.
If grandmother can’t follow her DiL’s wishes, the best thing to do is keep them separated.
I totally agree Goat. Lezita know the drill when it comes to the media. She worked for the media. How many of us have had issues with our MIL? I have. There has been many times in the course of my 22 year marriage where my mil has crossed the line. On various ways. From my children to my home to my marriage. In my case, I don’t associate with that side of the family.
It’s unfortunate that this happened publicly. But when you get pushed and disrespected , there’s only so much a person can take.
I have a very determined MIL I have learned to accept and understand, but she can be very pushy about our children. If I say I am looking for a new dentist for the kids in a casual conversation, she takes it on as a mission, and while I forgot about it, she hasn’t. I will receive an email with in depth information about a handful of choices.
So I will choose one and before I know it she has set up appointments and volunteers/demands she takes them. It is a help, but it never fails that when I show up the staff makes sure to mention they met my MIL. She never fails to make an impression.
@magnoliarose, Oh honey you need https://community.babycenter.com/groups/a4725/dwil_nation in the worst way. This is the greatest thread on earth about dealing with in laws (DWIL) and I have learned so many useful ways to handle my own pushy MIL without coming off as the witch.
@L84Tea
Thanks! I have come a long way, and I do love her, but I could use more tips for sure. When she is in the control mode, she drives me bananas.
@L84Tea…
WOW! Just wanted to say thank you for that link! I was checking out the first thread (after the instructions) and I spent all night reading until 3am completely intrigued by an ongoing case of terrible MIL turned mystery crime case. I mean… woah. I am in complete awe of the OP and the community. Best thing I’ve read in ages, and I’m an avid reader.
Exactly Clare. And I too have MIL issues, but the older of become, I let it go. QS is 80,for the love of God,QL should let it go. She loves the man that Sophia is mother too and sometimes you have to swallow the bitter pill.
Like it was said, amature hour. Poor on Letizia’s part. She couldn’t contain some self restraint???
@magnolia your post made me laugh – our Dog was neutered yesterday and my husband told his mum in conversation that he has been whining. She texted me today to say she was coming over tomorrow to ‘have lunch’ with him. With the dog. She lives 3.5 hour drive away. She is a retired nurse and I know 100% she is coming to make sure we are looking after the dog properly – I mean it’s not like he’s our baby and we adore the little guy, granny (her word!) must check on Dog under the guise of lunch. It would irritate me if it weren’t so absurd to the point of hilarious.
@Clare
LOL. That is hilarious.
The innocent old visit with an ulterior motive. Oh yes, I know that move quite well. She’s probably packing a hefty bag of remedies just in case. *wink wink*
My husband doesn’t entirely get it. He tells her things that to him sound like nothing but all it takes is a tiny opening and she pounces. The kids will inadvertently tell her something, and she is off to the races, and there is no stopping her.
I was sick last week, and I am still not 100 percent, so she is living her dream life right now. She is in absolute bliss because I was out of commission and she could take over EVERYTHING. Only helping of course. I tried to prove I am feeling great and energetic but failed in front of her so OMG she was renewed with fresh purpose.
I have my own doctor but NOOOO she made her doctor do an emergency house call because my doctor is young and inexperienced in her mind.
My husband has pictures from his childhood where she has him bundled up like he is going on an arctic trek in autumn weather. The other kids look normal but not him.
Oy I have stories.
Omggg @Clare, that’s hysterical! Lunch with the dog! It’s so silly that it’s kind of almost wonderful. Almost. Kind of almost.
Clare, that is hilarious.
So, my grandmother carried her babies only on a — ready for it —- feather-filled silk pillow, tied about the waist to the pillow with ribbon, to keep them safe while moving them from room to room. She told my mother and aunts that she did it because HER bossy mother-in-law insisted on it; god forbid the little heirs might take a tumble.
@magnoliarose, you sound like #wokecharlotte (york). I mean this as the best compliment! 😀 there’s an instagram
And for them to do all this on Easter of all holidays? They should have ask themselves, What would Jesus do?? This is one of those time where each party should have tried to do better. Like, get a grip.
After viewing it again for maybe only the tenth time, it seems as though QL is trying to keep the girls moving (everybody is shaking as many hands as possible) & QS’s grab for a photo op halts the progression. Both women seem intent in their purpose, with the girls literally stuck in the middle.
I also noticed that the girls are quite practiced in maintaining their public smiling personas.
Issaqueen, exactly!!!! Not that I’m perfect, but really??? Easter Sunday services and they aren’t even out of the Lord’s house.
Eh, Jesus was a man who knew how to party. He’d turn some water into wine and enjoy the shit out of that spectacle. He’s got more important things to deal with than family pettiness.
My ignorance but why did Spain even bring the monarchy back?It seems to me that Spain just doesn’t need this.Probably,if the truth be known,both women are pretty horrible.
Franco brought the monarchy back, hoping that King Juan Carlos would maintain the dictatorship Franco and his cronies created.
Instead Juan Carlos supported the change to democracy or rather a constitutional monarchy.
I’m enjoying this. Not for the girls. Just as mil and daughter in law battle.
ITA. I love the gossip and speculation re las reinas, but I hope the girls are okay. I feel for them: both my mother and grandmother were strong-willed and forceful so family gatherings were a bit tense to say the least. I could totally see my grandmother grabbing me for a picture, whether my mother agreed or not.
The daughters look like they already know diplomacy. lol
I am fascinated by this story. Letizia looks like she has a forceful personality and a lot of charisma. I am wondering in a more traditional European country like Spain if that rubs some the wrong way.
Yep. There’s only ever room for one queen in the hive… 🐝 🐝
What did Letizia’s behavior toward the MIL do for image of the Monarchy ,except cause a week of worldwide BAD Press for Letizia herself and the Monarchy? Letizia is the Queen and new to some around the world who don’t follow Monarchies and this is the first story many will see of her and the US and world press has not seen Letizia in a good light with this article in the press.
Letizia should have just let it go. Let picture be taken without a public spectacle. Her behavior created a week of bad press for the Monarchy. Yes let grandma have the photo. Big deal it would have Ben over in a flash.
There really is no love between these two. There were problems before the couple got married in that the parents did not want their son to marry this particular woman. Apparently Felipe threatened to leave the throne behind for his lady. So in the end his parents gave up. When the engagement was announced and they did their photo call you could see that Felipe is head over heels for her. She was very nervous but probably normal for the situation. She was a presenter on one of the TV news outlets.
I don’t know why they didn’t like her. Maybe she was not royalty. Maybe because she was divorced. Maybe because her parents were also divorced. (The royal family is very connected to the Catholic church). That I never heard.
But many stories have circulated about Letizia and from what we hear she does not get along with the royals at all. The family has done their best to dissuade those comments but then you see something like this.
To me probably Letizia is still angry because she was treated with contempt. She does keep her daughters away from his parents but the girls get much more access to her family. Especially her mother.
From looking at the video the Queen (now called Doña Sofia since the abdication) just wanted a picture with her grand daughters. The girls seemed fine with that. It was not until Letizia stepped in and tried to get the girls away from their grandmother that Sofia put a tight grip on the girls which the girls did not like.
The situation became tense and Felipe tried to smooth things. This is a shame because growing up Felipe always had a wonderful relationship with his sisters and parents. They got along very well. I’m sure Felipe envisioned a different outcome growing up. One in which he, his wife and children interacted with his parents and siblings and their children.
The general public LOVES Sofia. She was a Greek Princess who married their prince and she learned to speak Spanish and adapt to everything Spain. She is not responsible that her husband had affairs and went on trips with them. Nor is she responsible if her children become engaged in criminal activities. So I can see why they take her side and Letizia has struggled with endearing herself to the people.
I don’t buy the friends statement. There were plenty of photographers present as this event is a yearly tradition. I’m sure all of these photographers are vetted by the royal household before the event. Letizia just dislikes his family so much she does not want her kids to have contact with them.
Everyone should just forget what was done or not done and learn to get along because it’s best for the girls. I really feel bad for Felipe. He has to defend his wife but still loves his parents dearly.
Sofia is responsible for staying in a loveless marriage for 50 years because she wanted the title. She is responsible for covering that up and lying to the Spanish people for 50 years. She is responsible for publicly supporting her questionable daughter Cristina and her criminal husband Inaki, something which continues to endanger her son’s reign.
Seeing this longer video, it looks different to me.
From the shorter video, it looked like Queen S and her grandchildren were posing with a clear view at the cameras and Queen L just coming out of nowhere to obstruct it.
From this video, it becomes clear that it was more chaotic. They were all shaking hands, Queen L still going to shake hands while the posing started. Only then she goes to Queen S and her daughters and she first seems to want to stop it in a friendly way. Then the daughter gets annoyed too and wants to get rid of grandma’s hand, but Queen S doesn’t let her.
It looks like Queen S is in the wrong here, pushing things to a level where it became contentious.
I don’t think so. I mean, MIL can really be difficult to deal with. I will always take the mother’s side because she the mom. Grandmother’s had their chance to raise their kids but often, especially for the MIL, it can be difficult to respect your DIL decisions.
You know when you’re awkward with someone and trying to seem nice and civil by smiling and talking to another person or keeping busy / preoccupied so that you don’t have to chat with that person you don’t want to chat with? Yeah I saw that in the two videos. Long term strain, it is. Even loathes Sofia’s touch.
I just think it’s very clear that Letizia didn’t want her daughter to walk around and be photographed with lipstick stains on her forhead.
Such a common thing to happen especially with aunties and grandmas.
I totally thought she was wiping away a lipstick stain too.
This whole thing bums me out. Because honestly – I can see both sides of it. Clearly, there are some family issues here. And grandma seems to have overstepped her boundaries. But at the same time – she clearly wants to have a relationship with the girls, and not every kid has a grandparent that is around to do that, or who WANTS to do that. So I understand why she’s indignant and hurt by it. But I also understand why the mother is protective of this, and is annoyed by her mother in law.
I’m not sure that anyone can be 100% ‘right’ in this situation. It’s hard – Letizia is in a tough spot. But at the same time you have to wonder if the girls are uncomfortable because of past issues and the way their mother feels, or if they’re genuinely annoyed by their grandmother. I’m assuming it’s probably a combination of both since they’re around 12 now.
I think, at the end of the day, this isn’t a super uncommon situation for a lot of people. I have a kind of pushy gram(dads mother) who I adore – but who drives my mother nuts. So I’ve been in a similar situation to the girls before. And it’s hard. Because it’s genuinely great to have a grandparent who WANTS to be in your life and who wants to do whatever they can for you. But I can understand how quickly that can drive a daughter-in-law nuts. I think it’s pretty rare for anyone to have a perfect relationship with their in-laws. Two different families, two different ways of doing things, two different personalities – it can pile up quickly.
And I’m actually sitting here, grumpily counting down the hours until I go visit MY in-laws, so I get it. My FIL has been warned that if we have to be subjected to his Fox News ramblings (again) we’re leaving though, so it might be a short visit at least.
I want to see it from the grandmothers perspective but I really can’t. Having a relationship with your grandkids and taking PR photos are two different things. Simply respecting their mothers wishes for 5 minutes at this one annual public occasion will actually help build your relationship with her and consequently the children. As for photos, you can get as many photos with them as you like when you are alone, why does it need to be in front of everyone against their mum’s wishes?
I Have to say that I disagree. This is a future Queen to be. She needs to become adjusted to public life and the public eye. Not doing her any favors shielding them from that. Look at what William has become. I think Princess Victoria is a great example of balance. And one question, had this been the British monarchy, I think we would have torn Kate to shreds. I can see both sides but I place blame on Lazitzia more. And yeah, girl you better do some damage control.
But it’s not shielding them from public life – it’s asking her MIL to wait 5 minutes to get outside the church, where they have a pre-arranged photo shoot waiting. Sofia was grandstanding.
The grandmother is not only over-stepping, especially after Leonore pushed her hand off (and then the grandmother got a Vulcan death grip on her neck, and the kid pushed her off again!). Grandma has openly dissed their mother in many ways, and here tried to manipulate them into the photo, literally pulling them to her while they were “working”, knowing that photos were being taken outside, not in where they were. Personally, I think Letti showed great restraint in not decking her once and for all! lol. And I think Felippe needs to grow a pair and either put his mom in her place/standing up for his wife, or not invite his parents to the same events/stagger their presence at events.
*Sorry if this comes across as a bit jumbled in thought; haven’t had coffee yet!
Who cares is Sofia was grandstanding. Letzia made it worse by walking in front of the camera. I really can’t see any fault with what Sofia did. Letzia over reaction seems petty. They are in a public setting where they know the media will be and most likely informed the royal family will be attending. The point of this is to bring attention to the royal family and Letzia turned it into the wrong attention. I don’t know what has happened in the past but Letzia needs better media training.
My mother hated my grandmother and her hatred made my sister and I extremely uncomfortable growing up. We didn’t know how to behave. Not to mention that my mother would bring it up any chance she got and it put a lot of strain on her relationship with my father and my grandmother didn’t even live in the same country. I understand the daughters reactions and i don’t believe it has anything to do with Sofia putting her arm around her and taking a picture. It has everything to do with not wanting to upset their mother.
Andreia I agree. Letizia looks bad any way you cut it
A woman in her prime, starting a public conflict with grandmother is bad form.
I’d hate to be a elder person having someone with the temperament of Letizia looking after me. She needs to get a grip of her temper. She is the Queen now and has to let things slide off, NOT make it worse.
Letizia comes out awful in this.
I’m with Andreia
100% agree. Sophia probably broke some pre-arranged plan, but Letizia’s behaviour was objectively worse from an onlooker’s perspective. She obviously tried to get in front of the shot the grandmother was setting up, she tried to butt in amongst them and tried to break up the whole thing. She made it worse. We might never have known there was an issue had she not behaved as she did. Leave your pique to afterwards. My goodness you’ve just come from EASTER Mass. That was disappointing.
Letizia might be right that Sophia crossed the line to what was pre-arranged with respect to the press, but there was nothing wrong with a grandmother wanting to be photographed with her grandchildren.
The only thing I don’t fault Letizia for in this scenario is wiping her daughters’ faces. There was lipstick on them, and I’d have tried to wipe if off too. Totally fair enough.
Letizia was the mother guarding her daughters. The girls are not props. Sofia was creating a backup staging photos there. It was not the time or place. And out of line 100% to force the twins to remain by her side when they clearly tried to move forward.
Credit to all players for the constant smiles.
Sure letizia made a mild scene, but sofia was out of line and physically aggressive. Not for the benefit of her relationship with her family or grandchildren. Not for a nice moment to frame. This was a power move for the mother to witness and twins to be used.
@Andreia
You don’t see anything wrong in what Sofia did? She intentionally violated her granddaughters’ personal space. Princess Leonor threw Sofia’s hands off of her twice. The first time should have been enough to let Sofia know not to do it again.
Serafina, I agree with the statement about Sweden. Princes Victoria and Prince Daniel take their daughter to public events. She is taught to interact with people and shake hands and all. I think I started seeing her do this since she was about 4 or 5. It’s very cute. She goes to church and they had a tiny stool for her to rest her feet on. She met an important man (don’t remember who) and was shaking hands like an adult. She goes occasionally. She doesn’t go all of the time but I think her parents are preparing her because they want her to be very at ease in her role. Yes and Letizia better stop these things. Spain is going to hate her if she keeps this up.
These two girls have been attending public events like these for years. They were in fact interacting with the public when their granny manhandled them for a PR photo. There was a pre-arranged group shot happening just a few minutes later, but Sofia wanted her solo PR moment with the girls. Completely inappropriate. IMO Letizia and Felipe are in the right to keep these girls as far from Sofia and JC as possible.
Because Letizia has historically controlled who takes pictures of her daughters. Unlike what someone posted above, Queen Sofia took Letizia under her wing and was incredibly kind to her before the wedding to Felipe. If the Spanish press is being hard on Letizia, it is probably that they know how controlling and rude she is to Sofia and has been for a long time. Notice that Leonor only pushes Sofia away after mom approaches, before that she was fine, and how Felipe is trying to say something to her (not to his mother, and lip readers say he is saying “por favor”, like “Please, can’t we not do this today..”) Letizia’s behavior is very well-known in Spain and things look quite different with context so that is why everyone here is thinking Sofia is at fault. Letizia is a pill and quite difficult and she is doing her daughters no favors. Ask a Spaniard.
If sofia didn’t take letizia under her wing the press would have… wait what? Been more cruel than they were? Letizia was attacked on a regular news day. Too thin. Botox. Thirsty TV personality, gold digging social climber was how she was portrayed in kindness. There was much worse.
Sofia has manipulated much against her and I’m thinking shes just not having it with her daughters. They looked done as well.
As MagnoliaRose said above. These girls understand diplomacy.
>>But at the same time you have to wonder if the girls are uncomfortable because of past issues and the way their mother feels, or if they’re genuinely annoyed by their grandmother. <<
I wondered that too from :22 – :25 where granddaughter repeatedly pushes off grandmother's arm from hers, first with her right hand, then with her left.
You’re forgetting a whole other layer of it: Juan Carlos (the former king) and his daughter Cristina and her husband have been caught doing extremely corrupt things, and Sofia has been publicly supporting them. Felipe and Letizia are the ones cleaning up the mess.
This^
Letizia was targeted and mistreated by Cristina and her criminal husband for years. All with the support of JC and Sofia. Sofia continues to publicly support Cristina, to the point of endangering Felipe’s reign. Not only is it internal family politics, it is the public politics of granny supporting criminals and wanting her solo PR moment with the grandkids.
I’d limit their access to the grandkids too. JC and Sofia have nothing to teach the new generation except Do Not Follow Our Example.
It looked to me as if Sophia wasn’t supposed to do that and thought she could get away with a quick photo.
Taking the backstory into consideration, I can understand Letizia’s position.
Bridget: spot on. This isn’t a “normal” granny. There’s a big difference between being a run-of-the-mill, pushy MIL and corroborating the corruption that has nearly sunk the monarchy. It’s terribly sad that the king and queen have to keep up appearances with those criminals. Grandma’s not fooling Princess Leonor, judging by these videos.
I think when it becomes a situation where a daughter-in-law is concerned about her mother-in-law’s morality (and possible other issues) , the former can become very protective of her kids–to the point where she might even try to cut off access by the MIL. My niece isn’t even born yet, and my pregnant sister is already determined to set very strict limits on her MIL’s access to the baby. It all stems from the awful relationship between the two adults, as well as her MIL’s history of simply being a terrible person to so many. To outside observers, my sister’s determination to set those boundaries might seem like too much. But if you know about her MIL’s narcissistic and sometimes cruel behavior to others, it’s not too much at all!
@emilybyrd exactly, most people do not set boundaries like that lightly. it’s usually after a long struggle. i’ve had to set very hard boundaries like that with my parent. it wasn’t easy, but after that i will always be on the side of the person trying to set boundaries.
This. Plus I think Sophia is angry with her feet an swelling up in those tight shoes. Actually should b checked out-that Level of edema could mean something.
I’m not able to see how the grandmother has any high ground here.
What we see is the passive aggressive fallout of more behind the scenes drama. The girls did not appear to enjoy being props. Sofia was pushing them around. Holding them forcibly.
If she wants a relationship with them on good terms why grab them and clearly go against what their mother and the girls were comfortable with?
Her approach is all wrong.
The kiss wiping might have been for lipstick… idk
Letizia has broken protocol herself and behaved not so nicely to an elder consort lady, Michiko. When they arrived by plane she started walking ahead and ignored the hand that Michiko extended, then, at a state dinner, they entered behind the emperor and Felipe and Letizia walked faster towards them, leaving her behind, if you see the video, one can see Michiko’s puzzled faceaas she could not walk fast. She is an older lady, and I think it was not nice of her, it looked badly, especially because one can see that Michiko was very nice and as an elder person (and an empress) Letizia should have been more careful.
Lol when do grandmothers usurp the mother’s choices? In a number of families i know in Italy, Spain, France, Poland, Ireland, and Germany. Only one queen per those families! Get in line! Though maybe not with a weird grab like that.
In Italy, when you have a child, you either have a grandparent to look after him/her or… you might not have him/her at all. Childcare in Italy is 80% on grandparents shoulders, no other choices unless you are rich and can pay for nannies and private nurseries. I wouldn’t call it ‘usurping’ but merely a necessity.
My Italian grandparents basically raised me, mom had to go back to work 1.5 months after having me. I was raised in my nonna’s kitchen 🙂
Add the mammoni culture to that dynamic and you have enmeshment, andajor MIL drama!
@ OriginalLala : raised in your Nona’s kitchen? I am so jealous! My parents are from England but I was raised in Canada surrounded by kids whose parents came from Italy. Their lunches ALWAYS looked better than mine. I love everything Italian.
Another story : I knew a woman who had had her first baby, first grandchild in both families. Her parents were from Italy, his parents were from Greece. They named the little girl Maria because they knew no one would argue over the name! When you name your kid after the Virgin Mother, what to argue about!?
In my Jewish family, we NEVER had a babysitter; it was always my mom’s parents, Grandma and Papa! lol. I LOVED being with my grandparents, especially being at their home. BUT, my grandparents ALWAYS respected my parents wishes regarding us (although yes, we did get the occasional sneaked cookie/candy/money lol). But my grandparents would never defy my parents wishes outright. If anything, I’d hear them speak to my parents when we were (supposed to be) out of earshot 😊
There is a hierarchy in my Jewish family. My grandmother is from Germany, and my grandfather is from Russia, so their idea of family is European. Elders are respected and revered and the head of the family. Their opinions matter to me as much as my parents’ opinions and they are very involved in our lives. But they aren’t intrusive or bossy.
I spent a lot of time with them because my parents had careers and they never liked the thought of their grands alone with caregivers and not with family. I loved it and have so many happy memories because of them.
They have a place outside of the city, and there is an orchard and for each child born a fruit tree is planted. From their first born on down to the great-grandchildren. It makes my grandfather happy to feel like the family grows, so he loves to look at the trees. There is more to it than that, but it is too long to write. A lot of it has to do with them being Survivors.
In Judaism we have a holiday that is like a spiritual arbor day, it was in January this year. We have fresh fruit from the market but then food made from the tree fruit like preserves. I would have to be near death’s door to miss it even though it isn’t a big holiday. It is for us though.
On the other side, I disliked my grandfather but love my Mamere. However, I get how some people don’t like their grandparents because of him.
Nona in greek is basically godmother. Lol the spelling threw me.
To anyone jealous of being raised in a kitchen… at least for my brother and myself. He got to eat and play. I have memories of baking and being taught this is a valuable trait to land a husband… mmhmm…
My mother watches my baby (but never comes unless I’ve asked), and MIL still works but she’s at my house 2-3 times a week and complains its not enough time. She’s always interrupting the bedtime routine or family day (My husband gets home late many times after she’s asleep so i put aside days when we dont allow visitors so we can bond together). She’s only 3 months old, its going to get worse before better.
Letizias mother lives with them to help, its probably a similar situation. The MIL demands more time and is overbearing and suffocating when around the kids and Letizia is used to it but over it. I may be projecting.
This royal saga cracks me up. I know . . . I’m childish.
Lol me too. I am here for it 🙂
Oh snap………..
As someone who has problems with the MIL, details don’t matter. Once you have established that you are not respected as a mother (and here as a queen), you go on tigress mode. Totally recognize the pacing-in-a-cage body language in Letizia here, and I sympathize.
And to all the people saying “respect your elders”: does this mean that Charles Manson, Hitler, get a pass at 80?! 🤔
Not comparing the queen mother to serial killers but just trying to make a point.
…you are equating Hitler to Sofia, though. Saying you aren’t doesn’t change that.
But I get what your actual point is: elders should be respected but they should also be respectful. When an elder becomes toxic and then tries to rely on the respect angle, it’s time to set boundaries. And I agree completely with you.
I’ll take it one step further. Age is no more a qualifier for respect than gender or race. Respect is earned and simply being born earlier than others is not currency in this context. An AHole is an AHole, whether she be a 40 year old or a 70 year old. And an AHole has not earned your respect. The only exemptions to be made are for medical issues like dementia.
Agree. Had an MIL who did not respect any boundaries whatsoever. It is a strain on the family in so many ways- divisive to the couple, uncomfortable for the kids, and selfish of the MIL (or whomever), which is insensitive to the entire family dynamic.
Respect is a two way street. It is earned, not conferred. Mine just could not accept that.
@slowsnow Erm, but that is exactly what you are doing. A more fitting comparison may have been Prince Philip – who is known to be frequently out of line (racist, xenophobic, clueless, whatever) and quite openly unkind to at least one of his daughters in law.
How you made the connection between Sophia and Hitler (which you did, sayin’g you didn’t doesn’t undo that)….I don’t even know lol
Besides one should be able to contain ‘tigress mode’ in a professional/formal setting for 2 hours. Being a mum doesn’t exclude one from also behaving like an adult. Unless her kids were in immediate danger there is no reason to make a spectacle. And if you feel your kids ARE in danger (emotionally, physically, whatever) don’t do joint events with the evil grandmaman, or leave the kids at home. There is no legit excuse for either of the Queens’ to be acting like fools at a public event.
I agree with your post. Nana is coming off a bit grabby but the mom seemed to be really aggressive too. Let nana take the dumb pics without making a scene, then go over with husband or nana directly afterwards not to behavior A or behavior B. Wiping her kids head after nana kissing her was so petty lol
@Clare the Philip comp isn’t probably too accurate either. Sofia is older now and has some dodgy conservative views (gay rights, etc) but she is widely revered by the Spanish public as a model of grace and dignity under pressure, for all the years she well-represented them as Queen while in the face of personal indignities at home (the press didn’t report much of it, but the public knew). I have Spanish relatives who’ve filled me in on this for years.
That’s why the uproar against Letizia. Not saying I agree with how Sofia acted – she was grabby and out of line – but this isn’t a typical family with the typical roles. Sofia’s the ‘Queen Mother’ here with deep public sympathy and respect built up over many decades. Spain has modernized greatly, but is still in some ways a deeply traditional/conservative culture; respect for and tolerance of elder women is expected even when they annoy.
They’re also a Royal family paid by the public purse. This was a public event, the public would expect better decorum from all of them. Letizia being the current Queen would have the burden of the higher expectation of behavior – she would be aware of this.
…maybe, just maybe this one time Letizia had enough of her m-i-l pushing her way in and claiming what she wants, others be damned? Maybe Letizia has finally had enough of her after what, 15 years of her trying to dominate Letizia? (and Letizia was hardly aggressive, that move belongs to Sophia) Has Sophia ever openly embraced or even mentioned having respect for her d-i-l? Has she ever welcomed her or made her feel a part of the family? From what I’ve read, (admittedly little) about them, Sophia places her daughter above the actual Queen of their country, a consistent slap in the face to Letizia. Not helpful in fostering close family ties.
I know what you mean slowsnow, but I just want to let you know that for some using Hitler as an insult can be offensive. It can seem flippant and minimize what he did about the example. You know what I mean? I loathe 45 with every cell in my being, but he’s still not Hitler.
People don’t mean any harm and are trying to make a point, so I get that totally, but I just wanted to let you know so in case you ever get a weird vibe from someone as a result. Or worse they get angry and sensitive. I have been there, and I always wished someone had told me.
But I do agree with your point. Old people can be as jerky as young people.
@magnoliarose
Sigh. Sometimes I wish there was a little bit more logic in the world. It’s a simple sillogism and hyperbole, used rethorically to prove a point:
Elder people are due automatic respect
Sophia is an elderly person
Sophia is due automatic respect
Therefore one can assert that had Hitler reached a senior age, he would have been due automatic respect.
I am not comparing Sophia to Hitler which would be daft, I am applying the concept of the sillogism ‘elder people are due automatic respect’ to an evil person in order to prove a point through hyperbole.
I got it and wasn’t offended at all.
I sometimes think too much is read into someone’s statement without common sense or even taking a moment to get clarification. People are imperfect, and I look more at intention than I do language barring known slurs of course. Everything is an outrage these days when real outrageous things are happening in the world on the daily.
I like dark humor, but it works better in person than in writing, so I avoid it here.
So no worries.
Thanks @Magnoliarose!
I know nothing about this family or their problems, but it seems to me that this particular incident only really makes it awkward and uncomfortable for the daughters, literally putting them in the middle. 🤷♀️
Or, they might have been relieved that their mom came along to ‘rescue’ them from a situation for which they were unprepared, with an overbearing grandma who tried to take advantage of being out in public.
It could be other things have happened and they’ve told their mom about it, and she’s vigilant even if it means a public situation like this. That would be called putting her daughters first.
I’m a mom, too, so I’m well aware of the protective instincts. Like I said I don’t know anything about this family and my comment was based solely on the video clip which, sure, I could have misread and be totally wrong about. But just like the “might have been…” “could be…” was your interpretation, “it seems to me…” was mine.
@WHOARETHESEPEOPLE, I agree. Both situations involved Leonore, and it makes me wonder if Leonore has confided discomfort in Sofia’s interaction with her. In my opinion, both times Letizia is sending clear signals of “Leonore doesn’t like that, Sofia. STOP.” I’m a mom and I will absolutely step in when I know my kid doesn’t like something but may be too intimidated to speak up. Leonore may not have felt she could use her voice to stop her grandmother’s clutching of her in front of all of those people, but she was telling her with her actions, and I feel Letizia signaled support of her daughter’s feelings by wiping off the kiss later. Is Leonore the oldest? It may explain Sofia’s actions toward her in that Sofia may feel she needs to intervene in her rearing.
Yes, Leonor is the older of the two.
+1
I couldn’t help but feel bad for those two girls dragged from one arm to the other like they are toys. And wiping away the kiss? Unless the person handling your child is a child molester, there is no reason to act that way in public. It’s only a picture and a brief moment. Gees. Thumbs up to those well behaved girls, keeping a warm smile the whole time and acting more mature than their mother and grandmother.
She was wiping lipstick off her forehead.
The lipstick is pure speculation that has now turned into fact. Here’s my theory – She wiped the kiss off of Leonore, then to make it look innocent, did a half-assed swipe at Sofia that wouldn’t remove anything.
I’m team little princesses. both of those women need to keep their hands off the girls. they are getting old enough they don’t want to be grabbed and kissed and petted either in public or private, most likely.
As someone who grew up with a mom and grandma that didn’t get along all that well this scene looked pretty familiar to me. When Leonor moves granny’s hand it looked more to me like “Ugh, get me out of here.” When my mom and grandma were having one of their spats everyone else just tried to stay out of dodge. Neither is/was a horrible person – they just had petty arguments.
Also, concerning both scenes: my mom used to get super annoyed when people mussed up mine or my sister’s hair. For family events she would have it sitting just so and it drove her nuts when someone did something (ie. put an arm around us or kissed our heads) and she had to fix it. Just a thought. I think the suggestion that Sofia is a danger to her granddaughters is a a bit over the top.
I always asked myself if something happened to me, who was going to be the people to raise my children. Try to have some kind of civil relationship so that these people will honor you in your children’s memory. Childish if what is seen here is the truth. Grow up.
I highly doubt Queen Sofia would raise the princesses if something happened to Letizia and Felipe as she is already 80 years old.
I’m sure Diana thought she would be alive to see her sons grow to adulthood. Life happens in ways we don’t expect. Age is not the determination for how long your life will be. Best to try and have as many loving people around your children.
Would you actually want someone like this family raising your kids? They’re consisted of a womanizing, sexist jerk of a grandfather, an aunt accused of fraud, an uncle who is a convicted criminal guilty of embezzlement, and a grandmother who supports all of these disgraceful people wholeheartedly at the expense of Letizia and her kids.
If I were Letizia I would keep my kids far away from any influence of these people. They are not good people and I doubt they’re telling the girls wonderful things about their mother when she’s not around considering that royal family has seen Letizia as the villain since the start and has never stood up nor defended her from any media attacks, while standing by the criminal daughter and her vile husband.
So no, Letizia shouldn’t be required to establish a relationship with this family beyond that they are bound by marriage and by blood. Some families are not families in every sense of the word. The Borbons are nasty and entitled and a bunch of snobs. Good for Letizia for not putting up with the BS.
My opinion too Rainbow. This younger generation is best off being kept away from their royal grandparents and one of their royal aunts. Felipe’s other sister, Elena, seems mostly harmless.
Brava!!
@Nota they should have at least a cursory relationship with Elena since she would be the likely Regent if anything were to happen to Felipe. Meaning she’d be partially in charge of major decision for the girls, esp Leonor who’d be Queen. Letizia would of course be their mother, but I don’t believe would become Regent.
Remember this isn’t a ‘regular’ family as we know it, they’re Royal and even custody of children isn’t typical. The monarch (much like in the UK) actually has a type of ‘custody’ of the minor heirs to the throne.
Agree, Rainbow.
I think they may have a closer relationship with Elena. She has been pictured attending this mass with them in the past.
Did you know that the now-King Felipe’s parents used to call Letizia things like “the maid” and make snide remarks about this commoner they felt was so far below them, both before and after Letizia’s marriage with Felipe? There’s way more about how badly and snidely the then-King and Queen Sofia treated her. To me, as a daughter who was protective of her mother in tense family situations, I do not doubt that the two times we see young Leonor throw her grandmother’s arm away, and how happily she greets her mother and father, that something may have been said in front of her or she has heard/felt things and tension, and is taking her mom’s side. I am really surprised no one has spoken up for Letizia in this way. It’s not Sofia being a typically-left out grandparent, it is someone who for years (and who knows what she says now) made life hell for Letizia, and I see a kid who was being grabbed and moved around with some force behind the movements and who threw Sofia off twice. But of course, Letizia still gets the short end of the stick press-wise compared to Sofia.
My mum has said, since the moment Letizia married into that family, that her extreme weightloss and pained expression had to do with her in-laws. To paraphrase my mother “can you imagine having that asshat as your FIL?”
Yes Cee, great points; I agree that Letizia has looked for so long like she was absolutely trying to perfect herself beyond their reproach… but it can be impossible to make the criticism stop.
Leonor was literally born to be a Queen, and I think she absolutely sees what Letizia goes through and is angry.
Marie-Chantal’s comments made me mad. MC may have been a commoner too before marriage, but because her father was a billionaire she was never going to be treated like Letizia was/is.
I think that older Spaniards would make a big thing about Letitia not being royal or titled, just being a commoner. So that is why Spaniards might favour Sophia’s position over Letitia’s. Not fair to Letitia but it may still be how they feel.
Not true at all. Other family members were mean to Letizia, yes, but Sophia was the only one on her side at the beginning.
I have not ever heard that Cublaxa, can you point me in the direction of this info/articles?
I have heard more like what Snazzy says in the comment below: “… they’ve hated each other from day 1, and it’s not going to get better.”
I’m not sure how true it is, but in the royal forums, it was stated that Sophia/Sofia? was the only one to welcome her in and show her the ropes.
They are a lot of earlier photos of them vacationing together with the grandchildren.
The royal forums probably are inhabited by Sofia fans, and I doubt she was more of an influence than Letiziza’s husband. As far as MILs go, mine started out neutral, grew intolerant and passive aggressive. I wouln’t be surprised it it were a similar dynamic.
They had a good relationship at the beginning but was soured by Sofia’s continuous and very public support for her disgraced daughter and her criminal son in-law.
Then there is also the book about Queen Sofia where she made some passive-aggressive remarks about Letizia and her parenting. If I recall it right, there were details about Letizia teaching Leonor and Sofia to eat vegetables and Leonor, who was about 4 at the time, ‘already’ knowing that spinach is good for you. And that the kids don’t have unlimited access to computers. And their British governess teaches them proper manners and etiquette. Of course, the media jumped on that to criticize Letizia (AGAIN) and villify her parenting skills, saying she is obsessed with staying thin and is passing it on to her kids, that she’s strict and controlling as a mother, her daughters must not have a lot of fun and freedom, etc. Probably not the intention of the book, but you have to wonder why these kinds of details were included when there must be more examples to choose from.
God forgive children eat healthily and not lose their sight by the time they’re 20.
Poor Letizia. I had no idea that she was dealing with this sort of thing.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
If we are going to believe gossip, then we have to believe all gossip coming from every side, not just what we want. It is only fair.
Thank you Kita, I’m glad someone is defending Letizia. She’s been the scapegoat for absolutely every problem Spain has or could have, no matter how ludicrous, ever since she married Felipe. I don’t know how she hasn’t cracked from the constant abuse she gets, all while the royals, like Sofia, are silent in her defense. Sofia supporters often border on Diana-level hysteria and excuses, though Sofia is far from innocent. Letizia is a great queen, educated, poised, hardworking, +she and Felipe are doing a great job with their daughters, and everyone, including Dona Sofia, needs to respect that.
Just had a long conversation at the coffee machine with one of my Spanish colleagues about this (as you can see we are very efficient today). She was telling me that in general Spanish people prefer Sophia – they see her as the loyal, steadfast one (defending her daughter and SIL and taking her husband’s bad behaviour with poise…) while Letizia as being cold and also a control freak when it comes to her family. She said they’ve hated each other from day 1, and it’s not going to get better.
Just throwing it out there 🙂
Edit: She also just told me that Letizia is now getting boo’ed in public now because of this …
Yep, a Spanish friend of mine (who hates the monarchy) told me something similar yesterday—although she is sympathetic towards Letizia and feels like a lot of the press coverage is unfair towards her.
Basically, Sofia gets a lot of positive press for sticking by her husband, daughter, and son in law, being very warm, and is low key press friendly. She’s seen as very devoted to her family while Letizia is seen as more cold and trying to distance Felipe from his family. People conveniently ignore that the “family” Sofia is so devoted to consists of a convicted criminal who bilked a charity out of millions, her daughter who was equally as guilty but got off, and her philandering, corrupt husband. Sofia’s brother also made a few obnoxious comments publicly about Letizia and Sofia herself has done several passive aggressive things towards Letizia (giving Cristina a crown that was only meant for the Queen to wear when Cristina was being investigated by the authorities, the comments about how she raised her children, etc).
That said, Letizia just fed right into Sofia’s “Look at me, I’m so innocent and such a devoted family women” schlock that she spoon feeds to the press.
I was just coming to say that between Juan Carlos’ philandering, his shady dealings, his & Sofia’s protecting their shady daughter and her fraudster husband the Spanish monarchy seems to be a massive entitled train wreck. Is there a movement for abolishing the monarchy in Spain?
I’m not from Spain, so I have no idea what the press is saying about these women, but what you said makes so much sense.
I wonder how much sexist old fashioned crap goes into the writing (from the press). I think as a monarch it is pretty much expected from you to put your duty/country first – esp. for women. Your husband is cheating? Look the other way! Your daughter is supportive of a criminal – be a loving mother and forgive both of them! With male members it’s more of a “eh…boys will be boys. He is a king and women are throwing themselves at them, what do you expect him to do? Fight them of? He is a man!” attitude.
QS might have fought very hard for her positive reputation – if that is deserved is another question. It does not me she is the better person. She is using her granddaughters to get positive press. The girls seem to be uncomfortable with it -so back off.
Letizia is still being criticized 15 years later for saying to Felipe, ‘Let me finish’ when he interrupted her during their engagement photo shoot. He interrupted her, but she’s at fault? Those are the types of people I see as supporting Sofia in this.
If you read the Spanish comments online it’s all levels of insane. It’s so clear that people have a problem with Letizia because she was successful on her own right before marrying Felipe, divorced and actually doesn’t behave like she has to kiss the floor that he steps. Seems to me that they have a very interesting relationship with a lot of mutual respect. I think many of the Spanish news (or more yellow press) and comments are full of classicism and misogyny. I know for sure that this doesn’t represent the Spanish people but unfortunately if represents what people who are vocal about her think and transmit…We’re are neighbours and we also have our good chunk of misogyny. At least we have no monarchy, thank you!
Not saying she was right or wrong here, it’s kind of difficult to understand what really happened and maybe it was really nothing that big, maybe it was. Still the way people are talking about Letizia is a bit too much.
Defending her daughter and husband who were found embezzling money in the middle of a massive Spanish economic crisis? And Juan Carlos who abdicated amidst a perfect storm of controversy himself?
The Spanish people are notoriously biased in their public opinion about Letizia, to an almost absurd extent.
Leave it to a fight between women to shine a light on a culture’s true values. “Standing by your man” (who commits fraud and hunts elephants) = good. Being an outspoken and confident woman = bad.
Seriously: Sofia willingly supports a man who *hunts elephants.* There’s no excuse good enough. There’s also no excuse good enough for why Juan Carlos isn’t in jail.
You said what I wanted to say. It is so regressive and absurd I can’t wrap my mind around it at all.
It’s the Royal edition of wax on/wax off.
When is Sofia painting the fence, sanding the floors and holding the crane position?
Team Queen Letizia – i have a feeling that Sofia is a control freak and snob behind closed doors.
Plus she has openly supported her criminal daughter and son in law but has never ever said anything in support of Letizia. Sofia has never stood up for Letizia during the 15 years of media attack. Her daughter and husband even laughed about the sexual abuse Letizia got.
My guess is that Christina don’t like Letizia and she made her mother choose side. Sofia choose her criminal daughter and the rest is history.
For QL to act like this in public, QS better be a danger to the girls. Truly, I can only imagine what it’s like having a Queen as a MIL and especially one who feels as if you took her place. But it just seemed next level petty for Letizia to wipe off the kiss. Unless the QS is a danger to the girls, that move was unnecessary and spiteful. My only hope is that QS left lipstick smudge on the girl’s forehead and QL wiped it off. How bad is the relationship between the two that she couldn’t just allow the kiss in front of the cameras and then wait until after to address whatever annoyed her? This whole situation is weird.
Also, as the mother of a son, I live in fear of when my son one day, if he wants to, gets married and have children. I am extremely close with my MIL and include her in everything. She was in the birthing room as well because I knew that this experience was for her as much as it was for my own mother. Every holiday and birthday, she is right there with us. So when I read stories about DILs keeping their in-laws at a distance while keeping their family close, I get anxious. My whole point is, unless the grandparents are a danger, the relationship on both sides should be the same.
DIL’s keep in-laws at a distance usually because the in-laws treat them badly and haven’t done anything to deserve a close relationship. Respect is always earned, and if your children see you sucking up to people who don’t respect you, you as a mother set a bad example for them. You teach people how to treat you.
My brother married a WONDERFUL woman, and do you know why we have a nice relationship? It’s because I know my place as an in-law and I’ve always respected her wishes. So guess what, my sister and I are happily included in their family. You can’t expect to act badly and people want to have you around.
So much yes to this! My in laws are just…. I can’t even put into words and I’d be here all day with examples but I’ll just say they are Trump supporting self righteous Christians, they overlook anything offensive Trump has said and call all of it fake news. They watch Fox News for hours everyday and my father in law thinks, and has said that he should be able to act and speak however he wants no matter how awful but that we have to continue to love him because Jesus teaches unconditional love. When we have tried to distance ourselves from him when he’s being awful or pointed out what he’s doing or things he’s said are awful we get into huge fights because he stomps around like a toddler never thinking he is wrong and always saying, he is who he is and we have to take him for who he is and love him. My husband is the only one of his five siblings that has ever stood up to him because the rest have been conditioned to just take it. That’s another reason my FIL flips out because he’s not used to being challenged and my husbands siblings look at us like the problem. I’ve been with my husband for almost 20 years, since I was 16, and nothing has changed. It’s exhausting and infuriating and having kids makes it so much worse.
Same thing in my family. My sister, whom I was always close to, married a lovely guy. We always treated him as “one of the family” (ie: no different than my sister 😊 ). When they had kids, I was crazy excited. She knows I couldn’t love the boys more even if I gave birth to them myself. And she knows I respect their roles as parents. I would never do something against their wishes. If there’s a problem, I will talk to my sister or BIL privately (usually my sister though), and always accept their decisions. As a result, I’m the one the boys would stay with when their parents would go away, we do holidays together, and we all get together every Friday night for Shabbat dinner (a wonderful ritual that we shared with our grandparents from the time she and I were born 😊) We’ve gone on vacation together, etc. We respect each other, it’s not that hard…what a concept 😏
We were taught firm boundaries regarding our siblings’ spouses, but we also lucked out that we all get along. Except for my sister in law’s sister. I am closer to some than others, but it is just about personality and having more in common.
i have a son who i hope marries someone he loves and cherishes. i wish for him to have children. i cannot imagine living in fear of him marrying in case i don’t like his choice. to me, that smacks of needing to be the most important woman in his life not of wanting him to be happy in a healthy relationship.
Look, if your DIL doesn’t want you in the birthing room, it’s nothing to do with you. Her vagina, her choice.
my god, I can’t even imagine having my MIL with me in the delivery room! my vagina, my body, my baby.
I thought what @Iknowhatboyslike did, inviting her m-i-l into the delivery room, was really an incredibly sweet and generous thing for her to do. How to be an awesome human being!
yes! birth is a medical procedure for the mom, it’s not a show for grandma. plenty of women don’t want their MIL in the room because the birth is about THEM not grandma. neither grandma is entitled to be there and no expectant mother should be pressured to let her MIL be there if she’s not comfortable with it. too bad for the MIL but life’s not fair.
strong boundaries make for good relationships.
She also wipes Infanta Sofia’s head. Is she wiping an imaginary kiss, too?
I am shocked at the longer video because it clearly shows that Princess Leonor and Infanta Sofia were greeting people as they were leaving church, following their parents. A photographer seems to have asked for a photo and Queen Sofia then grabs and pulls her granddaughters. Then Letizia proceeds to block them and Leonor seems a bit over it, trying to remove herself from Queen Sofia’s grasp.
This got out of hand and if anyone involved cares, Queen Letizia and Queen Sofia need to present a united front because if people side with her and not the actual Queen Consort, her son’s premature reign will remain that – premature.
Marie Chantal must be regretting butting in. No more invites for her pretend Royal family.
LOL! @Cee! MC must be concerned that her tittle Crown Princess will be stripped. The fact that there hasn’t been any Crown or a royal family in Greece in 50 years is totally beside the point.
Marie Chantal, with all the money in the world, is still tacky AF.
To quote the masterpiece that is “Mean Girls”: She doesn’t even go here!
Cee, that’s such a good point about needing to present a united front and what could happen if they don’t. The Spanish monarchy has a lot of crap that could cause Spaniards to say “enough.”
I replied to your comment on my post above and had mentioned MC too! As a daughter of a billionaire, she was never going to be treated as an inferior commoner. The Spanish monarchy could go the way of the Greek one…
I think the Borbones have a very direct link to Spain, unlike the Greek royals, whom still like to title themselves as Princes/esses of Greece AND DENMARK. So I don’t really see them being abolished and expelled from Spain in the same fashion.
However, it is no secret that Spain is in bad shape and has been for almost a decade. Their economy is in the shits, high unemployment rate, high migration rates (we’re being flooded by spaniards in Argentina and we welcome them wholeheartedly). So, in this context, many can actually ask themselves “is the House of Borbon worth so much money, in this day and times?”- That’s the true danger King Felipe faces atm. His father’s philandering and expensive mistresses/trips did not help. His sister’s embezzlement definitely DID NOT HELP. He had to strip her of her ducal title and I’m surprised he didn’t go as far as to strip her of her “Daughter of Spain” (Infanta) and HRH title and style.
Queen Sofia is problematic AF because she became beloved as a long suffering Royal wife (she is, after all, a King’s daughter) to the point people choose not to care about a) her stance on LGBT+, b) her support of her criminal daughter and SIL, c) her disrespecting the current Queen Consort of Spain. Now I understand why abdicating is not always the right path – Spain has 2 Kings and 2 Queens. Queen Sofia should retire from Royal activities and support Queen Letizia because in doing so, she is supporting her son and perhaps helping secure the throne for Princess Leonor.
Whew, rant over LOL.
This is the most reasonable description of this video I have seen yet.
No overwrought “tears in eyes” or descriptions of dialogue that no one heard.
And, yes, in the video outside you can clearly see that Letizia wipes both daughters foreheads. So not wiping away kisses (good grief) but actually touching both kids to show her motherly devotion. Rather obviously and deliberately.
The whole thing is stupid and both women are clearly annoyed with each other, but if it were a regular family, the videos would be titled, “A Typical Sunday at Church.”
Since they are royal it has become an incident. It has blown up. So Letizia, being Queen, needs to be the bigger person. Make a dual appearance with Sofia and the girls and let Sofia be center stage with the girls (and has happened many times in the past – go look through Getty photos). Allow a few photo ops with her granddaughters. Resolve to keep this nonsense private from now on. Move on.
Sofia publicly supports her tainted daughter and criminal son-in-law. Letizia is already the bigger person here, for having distanced herself, husband, and daughters from that horrible side of the family for years.
Yes, Sofia has shown herself wrong in that regard. Letizia is right to keep her children from Cristina and crowd.
However, we are talking PR and the monarchy here. Playing nice with Sofia – who is, justifiably or not, quite well liked in Spain – and JC (who isn’t, justifiably) in public is what you have to do. Not to be cruel, but they are old and it won’t be an issue forever.
I actually admire Letizia for not being a standard issue consort. I cannot imagine her sticking around for 50 years while Felipe had one side piece after another. But apparently the Spanish public doesn’t agree. They like their Queen appearing long suffering and martyred.
They both need to be better in public and Letizia needs to pick and choose her battles.
I actually don’t like Queen Sofia and do like Queen Letizia, but they both need to realise they represent a weakened Royal House. They need to play nice in public.
Also – Letizia’s backbone must be made of steel. I admire that in her.
Team Letizia. Sofia’s support of Cristina and Juan Carlos has damaged any credit Sofia once had.
Both teams are wrong here. If they hate each other and whatever disagreement they have, do not involve the children. They are both putting them in an awkward and uncomfortable position which will lead them to side with their mother (which is natural since they’re both kids) and will end up hating and having no relationship with their grandmother. It’s a no win situation for the little girls.
I’m Team Letizia overall but both of them are acting petty in this situation.
@mandy – you can see that in the little girls’ body language – at one point they seem to be looking anxiously at their mother as if they are worried she is upset. It also seemed to me that the first “brush off” was when both Letizia and Sofia’s hands were fiddling around Leonor ‘s face/neck and she seemed to brush them both away.
@redgrl I noticed that too – Leonor seemed to be brushing both her grandmother and mother’s hands away from her ear. It appears as though the poor kid’s ear got pinched by the dual of twiddling thumbs by the adults.
I feel bad for the young girls.
I just came to say best drama in years!!!!! I love reading all the theories, I love reading all the conspiracies. I have not been into a drama like this since probably Princess Diana. celebrity divorces and get-togethers and cheating never really been my thing but this this is everything!!! Royals just do it better!!!!!!
Gotta agree, way better than the standard run-of-the-mill Hollywood gossip. A reality star/cheating spouse palate cleanser if you will.
And it is relatable too. I continue to read as I snack and ask myself is it too early for a glass of wine. lol
There has been issues between the two of them for years and both seem to be controlling and feisty. I think QS overstepped the mark as there was going to be a photo opp outside the church and she could have got one then. Having watched several videos it seems to be that QL took exemption to the way QS manhandled the kids and she did. They r children not props.
Any sympathy for King Filipe? It’s got to be a nightmare for him at home
sort of but i hope he’s standing firm against his mom. he needs to take his wife’s side over his mom’s because he married HER. he needs to have his wife and children as priority.
Mothers can usually read their kids. I side more with Letizia here, mostly because of the girls’ reactions.
Same here.
Yep agreed!
Same here, too.
Yep.
Yes. I thought the 2 young girls look remarkably happy, poised beyond their years, and like little rays of sunshine. That tells a lot about how they were raised and the love in their home. Letizia and the king must be doing a lot of things right.
I just feel very sorry for Felipe, who appears to be a gentle man.
As if negotiating the uneasy Spanish monarchy isn’t enough, he’s now probably put in the middle of the two most important women in his life.
And the conflict between being a dutiful son or supportive husband is one that is much less clear-cut in European families than in the west.
I hope he has someone to be his sounding board.
Let’s hope his sounding board isn’t his idiot cousin, Pavlos.
Juan Carlos and his daughters treated Letizia atrociously for years. She received a pittance for the work she did and was often blocked by them from doing more of the work she wanted.She was thrown under the bus all the time too. Sofia sat back and let it happen. I wouldn’t want people like that around my kids either.
QS is not the sweet grandmother she portrays herself to be, the whole family treated QL like crap from the beginning. They r a bunch of serious snobs, who didn’t like that Felipe married a commoner. They have a massive chip on their shoulder as they had nothing when JC took the throne, they were the seen as the poorest RF for many years as the Spanish gov refused to fund the lifestyle they felt they deserved. QS is part of the Greek RF who are the biggest moochers out there, a family who resent the fact that they have no throne- it explains why QS stayed in that marriage, being Queen consort was a very big deal for her and she will resent that she is no longer Spain’s Queen.
I’m here for all of this! This family is dishy, and damn attractive! Is the little girl in the blue, Leonore, the future Queen? The girls almost look identical. Also, how much could Letizia have hated her MIL initially if she named her daughter Sofia? I have looked at pics through the years and it seems they may have been initially close?
As for the kissing thing. I touch my daughter’s hair and head a lot. She is 6 and has similar hair and I’m usually, out of habit, trying to keep it off her face and out of her eyes…it’s a reflex on my part. Also, Letizia looks a bit a stressed here after the debacle in the church and I think she is upset and touching her daughter just to reassure and calm all down. That’s all I got.
Leonor (Princess of Asturias) is the eldest and heir; she’s wearing the floral. Infanta (Princess) Sofia is the younger sister, dressed in blue pinafore. She grew taller than her older sister in the last couple of years.
Everyone needs to make a public smiley appearance together. Maybe two. Hug and pose for photos. Hate each other in private if you must.
Because you can see there are real control and animosity issues coming from both mother and daughter in laws.
Then Spain can move on to addressing actual real issues.
When Letizia is angry, she’s really angry LOL. Long live the Queen, who is Letizia. Not Sofia who is still trying to cling to her title and status and manipulating the media as she’s always done.
That family has treated Letizia like shit since the beginning. Sofia’s continuous support of her criminal son in-law is such a disgrace. And I really marvel at the cultural difference where supporting a criminal in-law and a philandering husband is seen as dignified and worthy of respect, while a daughter in-law who has done nothing wrong has been crucified and pilloried for almost everything from her smile to the way she stands and walks.
Letizia has iron will. Nerves of steel. And when people say she’s stiff and cold…well wouldn’t you be, if forced to suffer through all the BS she’s beem subjected to both from the royal family and the media? It’s a wonder how someone like her who seems so fragile and delicate is actually the opposite.
She’s the opposite of queen Sofia and thank goodness for that. Imagine Letizia supporting awful Cristina and her vile husband? LOL the monarchy would have truly ended. It was Letizia’s idea that she and Felipe distance themselves from the rest of the family. That’s why when the shit hit the fan, Letizia and Felipe were not touched by the scandal.
But sure, Letizia is at fault for ruining the family closeness. Letizia is to blame when the rest of the family are unsavory characters and criminals and fraud. Letizia is the best of the bunch but she’s the one getting lambasted day in, day out.
It sounds like such a thankless job tbh. I hope Felipe is thankful Letizia sticks around because it seems everyone treats his wife quite poorly; family, the press, etc. No wonder she seems tense!
I mean, on a previous thred, there were a number of Spaniards, who weren’t “from spain” or “spaniard” and who all sided with Sofia. I think, as I’ve said on a previous thread it’s a matter of looking through your cultural lenses: this is Mediterranean culture we’re talking about and:
1.elders get respect-that’s “position zero”-they are owed respect
2.nuclear family includes grandparents and family is very, very important
3.you don’t cause this kind of public mess bc of one photo
I’m from a Mediterranean culture and I guarantee you that most of my friends, family, people on the street would conclude that Letizia was incredibly rude.
This is just one example of a clash of cultures, in this very thread: anglo-saxon and mediterranean.
and hey, if people from the country that this royals rule say Letizia is not very liked and not a positive figure, I tend to believe them more than insta-experts who KNOW how royal spaniards relationships work just from watching video of this 1 incident.
Not a clash of cultures. It’s more that some people are pointing out 2 things:
1. The Spanish people and press are notoriously biased against Letizia
2. This is way more than just a fight about a photo op. The issues between Sofia and Letizia have nothing to do with her being an overbearing grandmother. Juan Carlos left the Spanish monarchy in shambles when he abdicated and Felipe & Letizia have been walking a very fine line. There is major tension within that family, and it’s definitely not over a Church photo op.
bridget, have you read previous comments? I just did-and majority of them are either:
“she’s the mom, they are her children, she’s protecting them from evil MIL, my MIL was just like that/worse!/she’s the mom, she made a scene on purpose to avoid further outings with QS!”
I mean, I know they have long-standing tension and problems, I am from EU and I do know about spanish royals. pointing out that they have some bigger problems is nedeed only in cass if a person doesn’t know anything about them. that there is no love lost in this family is pretty much known fact everywhere.;)
I’m responding to your comment. Not everyone else’s.
It’s NOT just a matter of looking at it through a cultural lens, because it’s not some isolated incident. Context is important.
I’m from a Mediterranean culture, and issues between daughters-in-law and their MILs are very common, elders get respect until they act like assholes to you and your family, then gloves come off. I’ve seen it multiple times firsthand in my community. Maybe Letizia was being rude, but so was Sofia, she doesn’t get a pass to act rudely just because she is older.
I agree that they should all get along in public, and Letizia needs to be the bigger person here and make sure she is all smiley and happy when the “elders” are on the scene. They should do a couple of appearances together and act up a storm. It’s good business sense.
Plus this whole fuss really detracts from the fact that the Spanish royal family has actual, real problems to face.
But the cultural lens? Eh, not so much. It is very much individual. There are plenty of Anglo Saxon families that would bust a gut over anyone being disrespectful to granny. And wars between Italian daughters and mothers-in-law were legendary in my immigrant family.
THank you. I was one of those people from the previous thread living in Spain / or that are mediterranean, and I got frustrated and left because some people starting being rude to me and other people from Spain commenting, even said that me and others who commented like me, that we were deranged and we were the same person, haha. Like some conspiracy theory. We were just trying to share what a lot of people think in Spain. I even tried to tell commenters to just go to the youtube videos and read all the comments, or google spanish news…anyway, thanks for trying to understand our culture towards our elders and our respect for Queen Sofia for her decades long service to Spain, since the transition to democracy.
To me, being the bigger person is teaching my teen girls that they don’t have to smile and play nice when anyone touches them in a way they don’t like, even if I’ll get bad press for it. Ymmv.
Tanya, you don’t live a public life. It’s different for you. You don’t have to worry about the future of the monarchy.
To be clear, I get Letizia here. I agree with “not playing nice” in private. This is a public event and it’s the girls grandmother, not a sexual predator.
It wasn’t “a conspiracy” it was very clear from syntax and word choice that two of the commenters on the last article were the same person. Celebitchy confirmed that they were in fact coming from the same IP address. Sorry if you felt attacked when that got called out.
Actually, that particular accusation(being multiple people) is extremely common on CB when more than one person goes against the horde. That, and accusing posters of being the actual subject of the story. HI SOPHIA!
I very much appreciated the viewpoints of actual Spanish people. I disagreed with some points but that’s okay.
I agree with you so much.
It’s like everybody here has some “evil MIL” who is “trying to take their place” and are projecting like mad.
I think people are sharing their personal stories with conflicts with in-laws to point out that it is a common family dynamic where there can be tension without one party being clearly right or wrong. That isn’t necessarily projecting.
Although, I think this is a really juicy gossip story because the footage is clearly emotionally heated, but is vague enough that you can easily project almost any personal family experience on it. It sort of reminds me of that weird dress from a few years ago that people either saw as blue/black or white/gold.
You’re right, this wasn’t caused by one photo. The photo might have been the catalyst, but there is so much more to what happened in church last Sunday. Years more.
To me it seems much more likely that Sophia has become more resentful since the abdication and has been pushing Letizia more than in the past and Letizia is just beyond irked and done with it. Why is Letizia now cracking in public? Its not “showing her true colors” like Marie Chantal thinks, it’s something behind the scenes finally giving way and the abdication is the only major thing to rock their world since. The former king and queen having to curtsy to the reigning king and current commoner queen would cause major tension if you’re the older and still expect the same amount of fanfare for YOU and then your kid and his wife get it and you have to defer to them and on top of it, be under them in ranking order. I don’t see either of them adjusting well and I completely see Letizia pushing back on her well-earned current position. Like she had to hold back when she was princess but now she’s queen, and they’re not respecting her place and position, not just as queen but as mother and wife, so she is pushing back and they don’t like it. Royal family or not, it’s the MIL’s place to respect her DIL’s wishes, not the other way around. The DIL has established her own family with the son, it’s not part of the MIL’s family, it’s its own family. Stand back, don’t judge, don’t offer unsolicited help or opinion, let her and her mom come first and if she lets you in great! If not that sucks but it’s not your family. If Spain and Britain really want to “modernize” their monarchies give these modern women their place. I understand that they married in and knew what they were getting and could’ve opted out, but at the same time it’s the 21st century and these are 21st century women, and these institutions and the traditions date back to when women in general were just considered property and used to established genealogical lines.
This is a smear campaign on Letizia. She’s too good for them. And then they grow even more frustrated that whenever they go low-she goes high.
Correct. Their views are so myopic they don’t realize how good they have it to have a Queen consort whose only faults seem to be that she’s cold and doesn’t smile enough. And a Queen consort who was smart to see through the mess in that family and wisely convinced Felipe to distance themselves from criminal family members. Imagine if they have a criminal and fraud like Cristina as Queen. Would they prefer that just because Cristina is a born-royal? LOL
If they’d ever seen Letizia around babies or little kids, they wouldn’t doubt her ability to smile. She’s cuddly with kids.
One of my very few consolations of dealing with a dysfunctional family is that I don’t have to do it in the public eye. There’s just no way of coming out ahead, and I suspect that is what happened here. Manipulative people stage events such that any attempt at thwarting or dealing with them also comes off badly.
Sofia’s really good at her craft, eh?
Sofia is a life long royal who has lived a public life for 80 years. She is the best at projecting an image.
To be fair, it is said she is also a genuinely graciously warm person, particularly to those she loves.
Sofia is a master manipulator. Every time she would visit her disgraced daughter and SIL, the paps are there (even in Geneva where Cristina moved, the paps were present when Sofia would visit) so they can take their photos while on an outing, all to normalize and humanize the daughter and SIL, and present them as good parents who are raising a nice family and she the loving, devoted grandmother who has unconditional love and support for family.
Pity such love and support do not extend to Letizia. Watch Sofia in the previous years with Leonor and Sofia Jr. She always makes a play of kissing the girls and putting them in front of her so most of the photos would be of her and the girls.
There was one time when she took all the grandchildren to Cirque du Soleil and there were more than a dozen paps waiting outside the venue as Sofia and the grandkids arrived. It was not an official event, unannounced to the press, so how could all those paps have been there ready to take pics of the grandmother taking all of her grandkids to see a show?! Letizia was also there but seeing how the media has treated her since the start, I doubt she was the one who called the paps.
@Rainbow, do you ever get tired of saying the same thing?
Kitty, be nice. You do repeat yourself, too.
Sofia is a master manipulator, and she’s had 50+ years of practicing it.
I don’t get why monarchy is still a thing.
I don’t know what their private relationship is like, but this looks like a very choreographed event. It is obvious that the family was supposed to walk down the aisle and shake hands and greet people, but granny went rogue and grabbed the girls for a photo- blocking everyone else. Then, instead of posing for the actual, proper photo op outside the church, granny got lipstick on the girl’s face and was messing up their hair. I would wipe lipstick off my kid’s face too if we were posing for a family photo. It is clear the older Queen doesn’t care what is on the schedule or what she is supposed to do; she DGAF.
This is a valid point. It probably was choreographed and discussed prior. In church, we will greet people; outside we will gather for photos.
I like Letizia but if CP Mary or D of Cam acted this way towards Prince Henrik or Prince Phillip the comments would overwhelmingly be negative towards them.
I hated to see how uncomfortable Leonor and Sofia looked during that moment. Just really unfortunate.
Most of the Spanish press (and public) dislikes Letizia and always have. There are many stories about her being rude to people, from attendants to jornalists (although she used to be one). If you check the videos, Letizia’s older daughter violently pushes her grandmother’s hand away from her shoulder when she’s trying to take a picture.
I have no idea what’s going on here but I do know that Felipe and Letizia have a policy of keeping their kids out of the public eye as much as possible, Easter Mass is one of the few instances in which they get to be photographed. Also, remember this family has been involved in some corruption scandals with one of Felipe’s sisters and his husband, so maybe there are dragging tensions since then.
You gotta ask though, why have the public and media “always” disliked Letizia? The stories and gossip didn’t happen until after she was presented as Felipe’s fiancee so how is it reasonable that people disliked her from the very start when they didn’t know her except as a journalist and news anchor?
When she was presented as Felipe’s fiancee in 2003, it came as a shock. Nobody knew Felipe was dating because he and Letizia kept their relationship so private the media couldn’t sniff it out and Letizia and Felipe’s friends were loyal and kept their mouths shut. Letizia also did not expose the relationship to the Spanish press, something that must irk them since Letizia was supposed to be “”one of them” and should have given them access to the relationship. They couldn’t get all the scoops and couldn’t make money off the relationship, so they went into overdrive when Felipe and Letizia announced their engagement.
It started with the criticisms about Letizia’s Armani suit. Then they edited and manipulated the headlines to show Letizia being rude to Felipe when she actually said “let me finish, my love” but was presented by the media as “let me finish!!!” The main criticisms was Letizia was rude because she interrupted the Prince…when it was Felipe who interrupted her and as if somehow Felipe being the Prince means he cannot have been the wrong one. He’s a royal, after all, and Letizia is the commoner.
There the image of Letizia as rude was made up by the press and never disappeared. So now you only hear and read stories of her being rude and abusive to people. There are people on YouTube dedicated to twisting and manipulating the pictures and videos to show Letizia being mean. They do it because there are people who crave to see Letizia presented that way.
There are Spanish tabloid fodder like Paloma barrientos and Jaime Penafiel who have earned a living through criticizing Letizia ever since she came into the picture. They have gotten rich from spreading rumors about her because there is an audience who lap it up and believe all they say. The lies get repeated that it becomes the truth. So you see Spanish people saying Letizia is lazy…when one search on Google will show you all of the events she’s attended this week alone.
But how about that father who went on the radio to express his appreciation of Letizia? The father had a daughter in the oncology ward and said Letizia came in private to visit the kids and spent time with each of them. The father was so touched he had to go public to say thanks to Letizia. Or how about the accounts of people in the events Letizia has attended who said Letizia was warm and witty, and stays after the event is over to talk with them and interact? There was one story of Letizia’s security telling people not to get too close to her but Letizia told the security person to let the people come closer.
There are many stories of her being nice and kind and warm. They just don’t get picked up by the media because they can’t make money off of Letizia being a good person. The more they villainize her, the more money they get since most people, as you have said, had always disliked Letizia and will take anything negative about her as the truth.
Wow, I feel really sorry for her.
I know someone that was with her at an event and said she was nothing short of professional and extremely nice towards the people attending and those serving at the event. It’s anecdotal of course but also are the stories about how rude she is.
I wonder whether this video would get even 10% of the attention it has garnered if the 2 primary figures were male. Seems like people just love a good “cat fight” between women, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
And I hate it when women use other women to bring attention to themselves and add gratuitous fuel to fire. Felipe’s cousin Marie-Chantal’s snarky tweet about the situation was just nasty pettiness. Mind your own business, MC.
Letizia and Leonor should be more respectful and considerate towards queen Sofia as she is the oldest. It shouldn’t even be a question. Letizia comes accross as cold and stiff and vain , all about looks.
If Queen Sofia herself was being inconsiderate and violating a boundary of some sort — which I can’t know nor can anyone else engaging in photo-speculation — then she shouldn’t automatically be deferred to simply because she’s older. That centuries-old rule that defines “respect your elders” as “let them fail to respect you” is in serious need of challenge.
I loved it when, early on, Letizia publicly told the interrupting Felipe to let her finish talking, because that action challenged another outmoded “rule” — that women should defer to men, especially men in power. And choosing pants/trousers at Easter instead of the traditional dress/skirt was a nice little challenge to the rusty old status quo. Good for Letizia for shaking things up a bit in the 21st century.
Queen Letizia is Queen Consort. Leonor is Princess of Asturias. They both outrank Queen Sofia.
Sofia needs to take a stepback and play nice with Letizia and stop pulling and grasping at the two Infantas.
Thank you for mentioning where Leonor ranked protocol-wise. Everyone is talking like this is just a simple case of a granny going rogue, and mom and daughters not liking it, when really there is a whole separate layer of royal protocol and rank that probably factors into the tension we are seeing.
I used to scoff at how silly and petty the British Royal Family was about who out-ranked whom, and who should curtsy and when, but I’m revising my opinion. Having a firm public protocol that everyone must follow may not be a bad thing.
jetlagged, I think Queen Elizabeth keeps the Order of Precedence to keep family peace. Started with Anne when she was complaining about the popularity of Diana and Fergie. It happens to bleed into public life too, but it means everybody knows the rules and doesn’t get miffed about it.
A says. I’m with you.
Letizia came off bad. She needs to keep that temper or issues in check ,keep it out of public.
No matter how bad the in law is, let it go for a few moments in public, be the BIGGER PERSON just ignore it. Letizia made the whole thing worse.
I wonder how she behaves behind the scenes now. This has piqued my curiosity on her. Letizia created her own problem with this, because this is what many in the public who have never paid attention to her or the Spanish Monarchy will remember and the story is everywhere. I saw it in East Coast US major papers and they haven’t been kind to Letizia.
Yes, it wasn’t a proper way to behave in public, and even teaching her daughters that they should do the same.
@A. Why does Letizia come across as all about looks?
Because she is beautiful?
How sexist.
You can see several examples here in the comments of people talking about her work. But maybe you just don’t want to see beyond your own prejudices.
probably because of her plastic surgeries and all that botox.
So no chance she was just wiping away a smudge of lipstick then?
Far too rational a thought.
I m from Spain and the Forner Queen is really loved. Letizia is not. Cold, rude…she even mistreated her husband un public many times.
Yes, maybe sometimes she interrupted him or looked at him with disapproval. Certainly something none of us did to our partner in public. Are those really the golden standards for a woman of this century??! I hope this royalty stuff ends up soon. The misogyny is big in it.
How dare she, a commoner, interrupt him, Spain’s precious son?
Some people are utterly ridiculous.
He interrupted her, and she (nicely) told him to let her finish.
Strange that the woman gets blamed in this.
IF it had been Victoria of Sweden and her then boyfriend had been in the same situation, it would have looked protocolary bad just the same because they have a lower rank, in fact even in they had had “royal” ancestry it would have looked bad, it was not your neighbors engagement, if it had been a less formal event, like Harry and Meghan’s , then it would have not looked that bad. Imagine this, she, who started breaking protocol now is a fierce defender of it. well that’s why they say that converts become zealots.
I’ve had my share of disagreements with my MIL, but I would never do this, in public or in private, regardless of what our relationship might be. It’s just rude. Letizia might have good reasons for not liking her MIL, but those shouldn’t excuse this type of behavior. What gets me more is the passive-aggressiveness of it all – if she didn’t want the photo for privacy reasons or whatever, why couldn’t she go to QS and tell her so, instead of standing bizarrely in front of them? And the way the little girl pushes the grandmother away is just wrong and kind of mirrors her mother rude behavior, in a way.
I agree it was all kinds of rude.
The fact that the story has become tabloid fodder for a week, should tell Letizia something. Next time let it go, no public displays of conflict. Letizia may have her fans here but she is getting skewered in the world press. What did she accomplish with this! Except some bad press around the world.
Just let conflicts go in public, Queen Letizia be the bigger person in public.
This. This negative press was predictable. It hurts the royal family’s image, and that hurts the Spanish monarchy. How does this help Letizia, or her daughter who’s the heir?
Someone needs to also ask Sophia that question.
If she did it to spite Sofia, then it isn’t worth the bad press. But if she did it to protect her children’s wishes about their personal space, then maybe it is worth the tabloid fodder to her.
You said it perfectly, the girl’s behaviour is a mirror of the mom’s.
If grandma is “evil” Letizia shouldn’t be the one talking about it to the girls, instead she should let them decide for themselves, and not try to sabotage their relationship with their grandmother.
The girls who were openly trying to get away from their grabhands grandmother? They did make their choice, grandma ignored it, Mama Bear stepped in.
Of course there is no perfect side in this story. But lets see: the girls live a very private life, attending probably 3 public events a year. Your role as queen is to preserve the institutiom of the crown, its all about image, since you are obviously not involved in government. And you choose to have several (not the first one) scenes with your MIL , in public.
We have seen terrible family situations in royal families. But they hold it together in public. You cant have the best of both worlds. Letizia moves around with her designer clothes and fancy cars and dont do your only job. Keep away grandma eveeywhere else, apparently she already does, but queen Sophia is an instituition on her own in Spain, at least bite the tongue for half hour of your life or just go away and give up all your privilege: this is her job.
All I have to say is those are beautiful young girls!
I have a question for those familiar with the Spanish monarchy.
You know in the British posts, how some posters theorize the monarchy won’t last once the queen dies, is it the same with Spain? Will they last after Sofia and her husband dies?
Sorry if it’s an idiotic question.
Not from Spain but I think the question was “Will this House survive with this king (Juan Carlos)?” The answer was no, and he had to go. Felipe, much beloved, was the only alternative to a weakened House which is why I don’t understand why his own mother, a former Consort, would be so disrespectful to his Consort.
Considering that the King is now Felipe, I don’t see how it can be compared? Juan Carlos himself abdicated with a less than pristine image and reputation. Many people even said his abdication has saved the monarchy. Felipe is also popular and well-liked. He’s more popular than any politician in the country
And seeing the political turmoil that Spain is in right now what with the inept Madrid government and Catalonia challenging for their independence, the monarchy and the King are seen as unifying symbols in Spain. When many of the country’s politicians have been involved in corruption scandals, the monarchy comes off smelling of roses.
Queen Sofia will be remembered for her services, yes. But as Letizia is consort, I doubt she would be reason enough to abolish the monarchy. I don’t see the Spanish public demanding a referendum all because they think the Queen consort is lazy and mean and rude. Referendums take time and money, which Spain does not have right now. It’s more practical to keep the monarchy around than go through another referendum so soon after the one in 1978 and start all over again with getting all regions to agree…
The mom looks petty, but it really looks like a line had been crossed by MIL and the mom was trying to put a stop to it.
The minute QS manhandled those girls you could tell this was no needy grandma taking a pic with her not-often-seen grandchildren. It was a former queen in need of good PR after both current king and queen have dissociated themselves from the people QS so openly supports.
Letizia could/should have kept her cool, but she as any mother would have done, was only keeping her children from being exploited as props.
There are many layers to this situation that most people would not know. While it’s hard to speculate what the issues are between the women, it was most inappropriate to have this all happen at the timing.
Personally, my mother in law was rotten to me last Easter weekend, as she is a very manipulating and fake person. Thank god my husband finally sees the true identity of a person who left him when he was just 7 years old with his 10 year old brother and 15 year old sister for another man. I am bitter right now, and seeing this brings up some really resentful feelings of my own, stemming 25 years in the making.
I only hope that light and love will prevail so that the daughters can have a fulfilling and loving relationship with all the family.
If you look at some comments on Instagram, many Spanish posters are wishing harm on Letizia and Leonor because of this one incident. The overreaction is too much and it’s scary how many people share the same sentiment.
The extreme dislike for Letizia is absurd and borders on disturbing. I get not liking her and believing all the gossip about her…but to wish ill and serious harm? Disturbing and unhinged commentary. And if this is what Letizia has had to read about her and her kids…all the kudos to her for still going to work this week after this pile of shit thrown her way. And this must be something she has experienced for almost 15 years.
The way some people online are speaking about these young girls is really, really disturbing. Leave them out of this. This is why I tend to be on Letizia’s side…some of these wackos sound deranged. So outraged by a commoner being married to Felipe! Classism at its finest. I’m sure all these posters with opinions are pure bloods…lol.
The Spanish are very family oriented. Generations of families live together, it’s not considered weird for a +30 bachelor/ette to be living with his or her parents. Sofia is originally from Greece but I could see why the Spanish media is siding with Queen Sofia over Letizia. Blocking access to your nietas (grand daughters) from the abuela is likely considered a big no-no.
I agree with you 100 percent. All the spanish channels agree with Queen Sofia (Spain and Latin America)
LOL not really. In Argentina we call Sofia, Sofia de Grecia, and thank heaven we got rid of the Borbones 2+centuries ago.
Sofia is forcefully manhandling her granddaughters for a photo-op and as a mother I’d step in and try to put a stop to it too. There’s no excuse for forcing anyone to do something they are clearly uncomfortable doing, esp a young child. I can’t for the life of me see how Sofia is in the right here and Letizia is in the wrong. Esp since the official photo-op seems to have been already set up for outside the church, hence there was no need at all for Sofia to try and force a photo-op on her grandkids like that inside the church while they were in the middle of greeting people and walking out.
I still say the only explanation for Sofia’s poor behavior and lack of respect for others boundaries here must be dementia. Or maybe she’s just a horrible human being?
As for wiping away the kiss – if she left a lipstick mark with all those photographers around I think the girl would appreciate her mother wiping it off? I would have esp at that age.
So no, firmly on Queen Letizia’s side on this. Relieved to see the King stepping in immediately to help his wife out with his mother. So many men have a hard time cutting the umbilical chord to their mother’s and it causes such strife in a marriage if the MIL is a domineering person with lack of respect for other people’s boundaries. So props to Felipe for being a good husband/mature man.
Letizia and the Spanish Monrchy got a week of bad WORLDWIDE press. So what has Letizia won,by creating a conflict in public with grandma the 80yr old?
Sophia is getting the world press sympathy slant in most articles. No matter what Sofia might be in private. Letizia lost the PR game in this instance. Letizia’s press in the headlines has been horrible around this one event and she might be the most professional persons ever but this is all the world press is showing of her. Fighting MIL wasn’t worth it, IMO.
It’s not a p.r. game. If those were my kids, I’d lose my mind if I thought someone was using them or grabbling at them and making them uncomfortable. Including their granny.
The main defenses of Sofia are she’s old and Juan Carlos sucks but she stayed married to him. That’s not good enough. What kind of grandmother doesn’t care that she’s making her grandkids uncomfortable?
If it were about the lipstick (which I doubt), she could have taken a tissue or a handkerchief to make sure everyone interpreted it as that: wiping off the lipstick.
Not that the sky would fall if there were a faint trace of lipstick left on the girl’s forehead.
You can see how Queen Sofia kissed the girls’s left temple, and what QUeen Leti wiped was her forehead, it was the gesture, I think that she wanted to make clear how she felt to the grandma and her daughter.
I bet QS is a drinker. Bet she was drunk and hauling the girls around
Does Letizia have to take something for all the surgery she’s had? Just wondering?
what, like ongoing medication for past plastic surgery? i don’t think that’s a thing
I wondered if Queen Sophie was drunk, too.
Drunk? She may have overdone it a bit with the communion wine.
When you come from humble beginnings and become the Queen of Spain, the job comes with wealth and opulence but also with a huge responsability. This was a public event. They are ALL used to these public events. Spain is the most Catholic country on planet earth and they are leaving a very significant mass, Letizia knew what she was signing up when she became queen and I understand that perhaps she doesn’t get along with her mother in law and perhaps the girls don’t want to be around grandma but please!!! there are millions of people watching you leaving the church, you are a professional journalist and ex tv Presenter and this is what your do!!!!! Queen Sofia just wanted a picture with her grand daughters, let them pose with grandma for 5 seconds instead of making a fool of yourself!! Letizia has a reputation of being difficult and conceited, when King Felipe came to Miami there was an Univision who wanted to take a selfie with him and you have to watch the video to see her face! We, Latinos, don’t have monarchies therefore we are not familiar at all with the protocol (we don’t care anyway! lol) so I don’t blame the tv presenter. Regardless of the fact that both of them are Queens, a picture with your 80 year old Grandma is not a big deal, just let the photographers to take the damn picture and avoid all the drama!!!!
Yes, but THIS gesture is not about a picture anymore. She clearly WIPED OFF the grandmother’s kiss from the girl’s forehead. I thought it was tabloid BS – nobody could be THAT rude. But no, she really did.
Parece que Leti es muy pero MUY ordinaria.
ITA. And since when are kids told they do not have to take pictures with old folks? Since cameras were invented, the whole family knows as an unwritten rule on holidays, you sit, smile, and get your cheeks pinched in your hot Sunday best until the old folks are happy.
Please, she did the same with Sofia! No grandmother kisses for Sofia, so what, exactly, was she wiping away?
Watch the video again, with less bias this time.
My grandparents, if they were still alive, would be much older than Sofia and not once did they ever start grabbing at me, especially not by the time I was the same age as those girls. It is called respecting the bodily autonomy of your grandchildren and not ignoring their wishes for a photo op. Sofia was born royal and raised to think that her wishes mattered more than anyone else’s. She was clearly ignoring how her granddaughter did not want to be handled like that. Letizia is getting blamed for stepping in, but what mother would just let her child be stuck in a situation where at least twice she tried to get out of being handled. Unless Sofia has dementia, there is no justification for her behaviour. She is trying to power trip by dragging her granddaughters into her issues with Letizia.
There was a scheduled time and place for the photos after the handshaking. Sofia co-opted that, made a grab for the kids in order to get a PR solo picture with them. Letizia in the right here.
Spain is not the most catholic country in the world. The percentage of the population that is catholic is lower than that of several other countries. This partly due to young people leaving the church.
Don’t know the backstory. But how could anyone treat an older women like this…in church…on Easter Sunday? In front of her grandchildren and the whole world watching? Beyond rude and disrespectful.
You mean the government representative who has been publicly supporting her questionable daughter and criminal son-in-law? Actions that continue to endanger the monarchy in Spain? This wasn’t just a granny wanting a picture. It was Sofia being manipulative and wanting the PR of a solo picture with the girls on Easter.
Nobody has heard of a lipstick mark?
Grandma kisses in ine side of her head, the mother wipes right in front of her and in a different part of her firehead, not where the lipstick mark would be. Check the video.
While I don’t know the first thing about these people….or really care….I will say that usually you have to wipe off the lipstick after a grandma kiss like that…..the kids getting her pic taken and greeting the public. In the other videos you can see the gentleman hold up a camera …and then Queen Sophia ? nods to him and literally grabs those girls for a photo. That’s when L steps in etc…..It seems to be about the photo. The little girl flings the grandma off twice….
I’m with you. It looks like she was wiping off lipstick to me or maybe checking hair. She did something similar to the other daughter who didn’t even receive a kiss.
And if you have to physically grab your granddaughters and yank them around….that’s not okay. Those girls weren’t walking with her…they were with their parents and greeting people as they walked out. The little girl is the one who was visibly uncomfortable with gma. Her mom just came to help like a good mom. I don’t care for the way she yanked those girls back and forth by their necks/ shoulders to sidestep their mom to get the shot anyway. They are not props. Moms have the right to protect their kids images until the kids get older.
I dunno; it looks like pretty tactful, well-executed boundary-setting to me. “No, Abuela, we’ve discussed this. You don’t use my children for photo-ops.” Letizia didn’t make a fuss; she just made sure the photos didn’t happen.
The more i watch the clips the more its obvious that QS was manhandling the children around their mother trying to make them pose with her, it looked like QS was telling QL to move out of the way and QL was having none of it. Its obvious that QS saw a chance to get a quick photo taken and pounced like a pro.
If anyone behaved rudely it was QS and her determination to use her granddaughters as PR props. She is determined to undermine Felipe’s rule to promote the criminal Cristina.
How is this undermining of Felipe going to help Cristina?
I’m honestly asking because to me the video clearly shows Sofia yanking at her granddaughters while they were moving along the meet-and-greet line behind the King and Queen.
QS has been pushing Cristina and her husband in the press with family ‘pap’ shots. Cristina may have gotten away with it but her husband is going to jail, by openly supporting criminals during a very difficult time in Spain – catalan independence vote, terrible economy and scores of politicians being outed at corrupt – weakens an already weak RF, making Felipe’s position even more tenuous. People are looking to the RF for stability but what they are seeing is an extension of the problems with the gov, corrupt RF members who embezzled millions from a CHARITY.
Thanks.
Sofia must be bonkers – promoting Cristina and damaging Felipe, and the crown, does nothing. Like, what is her reasoning?
I keep think that the former king and queen really ought to retire completely from public life. Unlike the case of Beatrix in Holland, Juan Carlos didn’t abdicate because he wanted to retire but because it was probably the only way to save the Spanish monarchy. If the goal is to preserve the monarchy for Princess Leonor and her children, then the members of the Spanish RF need to stop reminding the public about the things that necessitated the abdication in the first place!
Thr criminal activities of Cristina and her husband are at the core of this. I understand that Sofia loves her daughter but this is really not the time to remind the public about the people (and the actions) that made an abdication necessary in the first place. Politically, Cristina has to be distanced from the public profile of the SRF for a a while (a long while), and if Sofia cannot accept that and continue to push for her daughter returning to public life as a royal – to the detriment of the future survival of the throne, then perhaps she ought to retire from public life as well.
Felipe and Letizia are king and queen now. They have to clean up the mess that his sister, his brother-in-law and his father made. Juan Carlos and Sofia are no longer king and queen because they fucked up so badly that the monarchy itself was compromised and threatened. I bet it is not an easy situation for them but things may be easier for all the people involved if the former king and queen retired completely.
ArtHistorian!!!! Did you see there is a new exhibit of Margrethe’s gowns in Aarhus? Are you anywhere near there?
Nota,
Sadly, that exhibit is at the other end of the country. However, it looks like it is very similar to the one that I did see a few years ago.
@ArtHistorian
You summed it up nicely.
Queen L’s plight is reminding me of the other scapegoat Marie Antoinette who was used as a pawn and therefore smeared relentlessly. Her reputation has been wrong to this day, and the actual story is tragic. Nevermind Louis XV’s role and how he set the stage. Nevermind the nasty courtiers and an uninspired husband. Nevermind a domineering mother who didn’t prepare her for her role. Nevermind she was an ill advised political pawn. No. SHE is at fault for everything.
QS interrupted and yanked the girls away from their task, and her mother wasn’t thrilled. She needs to retire, and so does her husband. They are making everything worse.
That’s good news then, that you’ve already seen much of the exhibit a few years ago. I’d love to get to an exhibit of her gowns or artwork someday.
Nota,
There’s been a number of exhibits of her art work (and Henrik’s sculpture) on big museums.
The exhibit that I saw of her wardrobe was good but sadly didn’t include my personal favorites among her gala gowns.
Magnoliarose,
Restored monarchies are, historically speaking, very vulnerable. In fact, the only restored monarchy that has survived long term is the British one and that was before the age of democracy. So this fact needs to be added to the scandals the necessitated the recent abdication in Spain. The odds are really against the Spanish monarchy. Of all people, Sofia ought to be aware of how vulnerable a monarchy can be – her own brother was after all deposed as king of Greece! That she continues to push for Cristina’s return to public life doesn’t reflect well on either her intelligence or her character.
I’ll agree that Marie Antoinette was unfairly scapegoated. The case of the demise of the French monarchy is an interesting one to me because it was, to a certain degree, caused by the absolutist system itself. Louis XIV created an absolutist monarchy were the State was almost exclusively vested in the person of the King. He did that to undercut the power of the high nobility and as an answer to the two uprisings that happended early in his reign.
Throughout the 16th-18th centuries there was a struggle between the power of the throne vs the power of the high nobility, not just in France but in several European monarchies. In Denmark, this struggle resulted in the deposition of Christian II in the 1530 and later in an absolutist monarchy (in alliance with the merchant class) in the 1660s. In Sweden, the struggle continued up until the late 1790s and culminated in the assassination of Gustavus III. England was a bit different because the main struggle was between the king and Parliament but it resulted in civil war, the execution of a king and a republic that lasted decades.
However, in France Louis XIV’s absolutist system had an inbuilt flaw: it depended entirely on the person of the king and whether he was savy enough to play the political game as well as interested in the welfare of the general populace. Unfortunately, Louis XIV was succeeded by his great-grand son who was entirely unprepared and who pursued a hedonist lifestyle. He was succeeded by his grandson, another unprepared young man. The system itself was also vulnerable to corruption since everything depended on royal favour and personal influence. Thus, there were instances of competent people being dismissed in favour of incompetent ones due to the personal influence of courtiers and royal mistresses. The seclusion of Versailles ended up being another hindrance since the court created its own little bubble, their own reality away from the reality of the rest of the nation.
So the system itself was extremely vulnerable to incapable monarchs. There’s a reason why monarchies like England and Denmark were able to survive monarchs that were incapacitated by mental illness (George III and Christian VII). Parliament and Regency in case of England and a highly competent civil service in the case of Denmark.
I’m coming in not knowing much about Spain’s monarchy. In one instance at 0.45 with the longer video, the girls seemed fine posing with grandma and the grandma gently guided them over where the photographers were for a trio pic, everything seemed fine until the mom approached than one of the girls starts pushing grandma away once the mom brushed her hair. Kind of sad to put the gals in the middle
dont see what the big deal about her want wanting photos with her grandchildren ok even if she used as a prop her parents do the same at these events.*shrugs.
With that said I dont think QL was brushing away the kissesAT 1:13 whatever happened earlier simmered down. she touched brushed her other daughter hair as well before that scene ended QL didnt seem agitated unlike earlier. she needs to learn more diplomacy
It’s really disheartening to see so many comments here saying that the girls should’ve just sucked it up and let someone do things they’re not comfortable with “because grandma.” The last message we should be putting out there for kids, especially girls, is that they’re obligated to accept physical contact they’re uncomfortable with because people in their lives who have seniority or other authority over them want it. Would people be saying they should just sit there & take it if the kids were boys?
THANK YOU. Kids, especially once they are on the verge of adolescence, deserve to not have their bodily autonomy violated. It’s completely unacceptable the way Sofia was physically controlling them. And I think it speaks volumes about what was really going on here. You can maintain respect for your elders without allowing them to violate your boundaries.
To me this is I guess a culture thing. Being Middle Eastern and Muslim, I was always taught to have great and significant respect for my elders. Everything we have or hope to be is because of them. I don’t understand behaving this way towards a grandmother, least of all in public. The way princess Leonore throws her grandmother’s arm off of her genuinely shocks me. I think maybe in western culture it is more acceptable to do this kind of thing, judging by the comments. I cannot however believe anyone would think this behavior to your grandmother is o.k.
Yasim, maybe in some anglo cultures where they prefer a very nuclear family only oarents and children. Where I luve is tropical america and the comments in the fb news in my country deplore the treatment the elder Sofia got.
I’m with Reina Letizia on this one. I just saw numerous pictures with all these people form other Easters and it’s obvious there’s some really ugly tension between the two queens. You can see R. Sofia glaring at Letizia in a few of them, even when the girls are in the arms of Sofia.
Bikki, I agree. I have written several comments on here, but deleted them. I am 100% behind Letizia. Seeing Sofia’s hand grasping that little girl was triggering. My grandmother was a “well-respected” woman in her community. I saw (and experienced) her for what she was: a controlling, violent, abusive matriarch. If I saw ANYONE grabbing my child (or friend, or sibling, or hell, even a stranger) the way Sofia grabbed that child I would at best have shouted at her and at worst broken her damn fingers. I can still feel my grandmother’s violent, painful grip on my arm or neck. I can still hear her giving me directives and speaking disrespectfully to my parents. Sofia is a bitter, controlling EX queen who is desperately asserting herself into this picture. She has literally zero rights to either the family or the country. She has been demoted. She has been shamed by her p.o.s. husband, but she is shaming herself now. This post and these videos made me so angry and disgusted.
As someone whose family comes from this part of the world, I can tell you that Queen Letizia will bear the brunt of criticism here, not Queen Sophia. As much as you dislike your MIL–even if there’s a very good reason–tradition dictates you keep a cool head when there’s photographers around. And, especially on a holiday while in Church! Wrong place and time to do this. Unless grandma is hitting the child, you play nice, and tell her later how you really feel. Always behind closed doors. Always.
Big no-no for Queen Letizia, in my opinion. The people won’t forget, either. They’re master grudge holders…that’s why King Felipe looks so worried. He knows how the people are….
Spanish press are worst than the Americana and UK press. Who would have known.
I got the feeling Letizia spotted something was up between Sofia and the girls and stepped in between them and the camera to stop them getting a photo of what about to happen. The death grip Sofia has on Leonore doesn’t look comfortable and Leonore shakes her off twice.
I can totally see the girls being teenagers and getting upset and Letizia not wanting THAT to be on camera
It´s a p.r. disaster and very much a ” game over” to Leti . She is not a positive asset for her country or the crown. Anyways, her public role is not constitutionally need it . She needs to ” retire” of public life for the sake of herself, her daughters and the monarchy.
You need to believe what the Spanish post are telling you!
My question is Do they realize how strange it sounds to make such strident and definite statements about Letizia because she was annoyed that her mother-in-law was grabbing at the kids like that? Even the kids are being insulted. Anyone but Sofia is wrong. That sounds so strange.
Rather than make Letizia sound bad, she comes across as the underdog. Sofia was obnoxious, outranked and not a good grandmother in that moment.
…& they all smiled like crocodiles all the way thru….even the kids…some shady family life going on there…
Team Letizia all the way
Sophia pushes her granddaughters around first to get that picture but, even when asked to stop, she pushes back Letizia’s hand (and her granddaughter’s) and forcibly holds the kids by the shoulders.
She may be older and the grandmother but she was going physical on kids and was down to start a good old catfight in public, I don t call that a lady.
Spanish YouTubers and press are now bashing Leonor, calling her “spoiled brat” and “rude”.
This is now a huge problem. Sofia’s and Queen Letizia’s actions have put the Heir in the eye of the storm.
I find it very surprising that both girls, throughout this commotion and ugly scenes, keep smiling at all times. Well trained.
Did anyone else notice how the child on the left looked like she pulled her grandmother’s hands off of her? It’s at the 0:55 mark. Hmm…
I have no idea who any of these people are, but from watching the video the older woman looks abusive. The poor children obviously don’t want her touching them, and she manhandles (probably to a painful extent) without caring about them or their feelings or needs. Obviously there’s a backstory I don’t know about, but I thought the mum reacted very well considering.