I’m startled to learn that I haven’t written about Madonna since September of last year! That was when she was out and about, promoting the launch of her skincare line, MDNA Skin. Some-odd seven months later, she’s still promoting the skincare line. Maybe MDNA Skin has been overshadowed by Rihanna’s Fenty Beauty, even though the products are somewhat different: Rihanna is doing makeup, Madonna is doing lotions and masks and eye cream. This is a bad fit, right? It was always a bad fit. As I said last year, I like and respect Madonna’s work in general. But I don’t associate her with “having good skin” or “taking care of her skin.” Especially nowadays, when she’s injecting syringes full of crazy into her lips, cheeks, forehead, chin and wherever else. Anyway, Madge is still shilling and she’s given an interview to The Cut. Some highlights:
How we fight ageism: “We need role models. People are afraid of things they don’t know and that are unfamiliar. Women have a different place in the world now. We’re finding more work and fighting for more gender equality in the workplace. As we do that, we should keep working on not only our career but on ourselves. It’s about staying curious, staying alive, and working on making ourselves feel good whether it’s through exercise, skin care, etc. There are no rules.
Life doesn’t stop for women at 40: “It’s an outdated, patriarchal idea that a woman has to stop being fun, curious, adventurous, beautiful, or sexy past the age of 40. It’s ridiculous. Why should only men be allowed to be adventurous, sexual, curious, and get to have all the fun until the day they leave this earth? Why should that only be the domain of men? How do we fight this? By standing up to men and by standing up to social mores or standards that say we cannot. The more women that do it, it will just be a matter of time.
She’s always been a boundary-pushing pioneer: “In the beginning of my career, I got so much flak for using sexuality as part of my creativity and was called a sexual provocateur. Now, all the challenges that I had to face 20 years ago seem ludicrous. What I am going through now is ageism, with people putting me down or giving me a hard time because I date younger men or do things that are considered to be only the domain of younger women. I mean, who made those rules? Who says? I’m going to keep fighting it. Ten to 20 years from now, it’s going to be normal. People are going to shut up.
An approach to discussing aging: “I don’t think about an approach to aging. I just think about my approach to life. I don’t do anything different than I used to do. I keep going. I continue being creative and working. I write, travel the world, am adventurous, curious, learn, and I seek knowledge. I listen to my children, I pay attention to them, and I see the world through their eyes. All those things keep you youthful. Some people go, Okay I don’t want to work anymore. They pack up their bags and move to some secluded villa in the mountains. I get that’s a life for some people, but not for me. Of course, you have to take care of yourself. You have to eat right, practice good nutrition, exercise, and all the obvious things everybody knows. I never smoked. I don’t go in the sun. I’ve always taken care of myself.
The move to Lisbon: “I never think I am fighting age. I’m just continuing on with my life as I always have. I’ve never gotten complacent. I’ve never gotten comfortable. I keep pushing myself into uncomfortable positions and taken risks. I moved to Lisbon with my four children. I could have stayed in NYC with my comfortable life, but I didn’t. If you keep putting yourself in challenging, new adventurous situations, then you keep yourself alive and youthful.
Real question though: why are celebrities suddenly moving to Lisbon? Was there a Vogue article about it or something? Is Lisbon some kind of tax haven? Is Monte Carlo suddenly too crowded so now everybody’s trying to make Lisbon the new playground for the rich and age-free? As for what Madonna says… I mean, she’s not really saying anything wrong. I agree with her words for the most part. The problem I have with this is how her words are backed up by her actions on a personal level. It’s one thing to say “IDGAF about how I’m perceived, I’m gonna do what makes me happy” and just living your life without care. But Madonna cares. She gives a f–k about how she’s perceived, and she wants to be perceived as someone very young. She wants to look like an Instagram model and that insecurity is all over her face.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Backgrid, Instagram.
Who moved to Lisbon? Madonna is the only one I heard of.
Fassbender & Vikander, Ronaldo, Christian Louboutin
http://people.com/home/how-to-do-portugal-like-madonna-the-under-the-radar-european-destination-is-heating-up/
Isn’t Ronaldo portuguese though, albeit from Porto?
Hardly a case of relocation.
@Manta, Ronaldo is Portuguese born and raised in The Madeira Islands, not Porto. He played for Sporting from the age of 14 so he lived in Lisbon (as Sporting is one of Lisbon’s best teams). I am pretty sure he did not move to Lisbon, he surely has flats or houses there.
Fassbender and his wife moved there too (read that here).
Vikander and her husband moved there too
@Bethany F Lol! thanks for this.
A friend and I are looking into retiring to Portugal. We’re not rich or famous. The culture, food and the lifestyle is very positive there for ex-pats. Plus cheap real estate at the moment. We have another five or so years to go before we retire, so who knows by if Lisbon will still be the hotspot? So agree with Madonna about moving there…but more importantly, what has she done to her face?
We have friends who did it and they love it. They are both ex-military so they are still yoaunt and have decent pensions but aren’t rolling in cash either.
What’s yoaunt?
My mom was thinking about moving there as well.
My dad bought a place on the Algarve (sp?) coast and loves it there. One thing I love about most of Europe is how people of all ages hang out together. It just feels more inclusive and welcoming in that way. Older folks aren’t tucked away, out of site out of mind. Sigh, I want move too.
I recently saw a House Hunters about a. Outlet retiring in Lisbon. Apparently, it’s very affordable, and has great climate.
So sad to see talented and beautiful women wrecked by internalized patriarchy.
Is it just the patriarchy though? Or do women collude in their objectification?
Men are not the patriarchy. Patriarchy is anything or anyone upholding and enforcing the system. Unfortunately women can be some of the most powerful collaborators with the patriarchal system.
great comment
To me Madonna is going through a perpetual “mid-life crisis” trying to keep up with the younger celebrities who are the flavor of the moment. I get the feeling that she still wants to be on top no matter what. I remember seeing her on American Bandstand back in the mid 1980’s and she said she wanted to rule the world. Yep, she still does pushing 60. Sure, she can do whatever she wants, but simply put, trying to still be the starlet who “wanted to rule the world” is just not fitting her at the moment. It looks more like a costume than reality. But then…what IS real nowadays?
I totally agree with your post. Madonna is a very strong woman but she is having a hard time acknowledging that her youth is gone. Madonna has the behavior of a man so to speak. Older men for instance refuse to realize how ridiculous they look dating/marrying much younger women.
@Lolo86lf-I couldn’t agree more 🙂
Yes. She can and will dress the way she wants, but she should realize that she’ll get judged for trying to cling to her youth. That’s just the way it’s going to be. The picture of her on the steps makes me sad.
@minx: The fact that a picture of a grown woman not choosing to cover up can still make people sad in the 21st century makes ME sad. I pray for the day when women will no longer conflate things like covered bosoms and other signs of female modesty with self-worth or respectability. Until then, all we can do is weep….
Exactly. She’s a self-absorbed narcissist. She’s not talking about the system, she’s talking about herself and how wonderful she is, and everybody else needs to sit up and take notice of her.
@ Tessy-Exactly. However people ARE taking notice of her, but I believe not in the way she wants. To me as well as some others– it’s more of the “cringe” factor when I see her acting the way she does.
Couldn’t agree more @Tessy. Would only add that she is a self-absorbed narcissist who is deeply conflicted on many levels, especially about ageing.
I agree with Madonna’s statement. Too bad she’s 103 years old. I mean that in the sense that her face looks like an aged actor who’s had massive plastic surgery (Zsa Zsa, etc.).
Plastique
What she did to her face doesn’t make her words less honest and true. As a fan, I’m sad she gives such fucks she is basically morphing into a plastic doll; but she has a point and she will always be Madonna.
I support her in being herself. if she wants to do the things young people do, all the power to her. The only thing i am sad about is that her face is no longer there.
When I was young I never thought of her as pretty. But now when I am a grown-up and look at old pictures of her, I think “gosh, what a beautiful face she used to have”.
I hope she stops with the fillers, I miss her unique features.
But coming back to the original point, I mostly agree with everything she says about aging.
P.S. a year ago I talked to a 33-year-old male friend about Madonna and the way she looks nowadays. His answer was “I think she still looks hot and I would totally bang her”. So there. 😀
I can never judge what is due to makeup and what is natural because I’ve never used cosmetics myself. But I do remember that in her youth, Madonna did have a unique look and didn’t just look like everybody else (which often seems to happen with people who get plastic surgery a lot especially). I had a lot of trouble distinguishing blonde female actors at one point – so many looked alike to me. Granted, I have more trouble than most identifying faces, but some people like Madonna looked distinctive but others did not.
Maybe bleaching the hair tends to open you up to doing other things that make you look like other people with bleached blonde hair. Maybe it’s just Hollywood pressures to look like one fixed image of a woman. But some like Madonna avoid that cookie-cutter look and some don’t.
(Diane Keaton comment but said better further down.) I think men seeking younger women are doing what comes naturally to them — Mother Nature wants at least the possibility of children. I know that is just based on controversial Evo Psych …And, anyway, we could evolve beyond it any millennium now.
She is terrified and ashamed of aging, to the point of wearing all the time gloves in public to hide her aging hands. No other celebrity went to such ridiculous lengths to hide the signs of aging. Far from fighting “patriarchy”, she does exactly the opposite: she fully embraced the idea that women are valuable as long as they look youthful and fu*kable. It’s a sad, depressing sight to see her desperation to stay young and relevant.
The downside of having it all is you lose it all. That’s life. Some handle it better than others.
Yeah, everything about her appearance contradicts what she said here. It’s sad. She looks terrible, when she likely would have aged gracefully considering how healthy and fit she is.
She does look terrible. That bleached out hair and dark roots, all the monkeying with her face…
“I don’t go in the sun”. How do you get your Vitamin D rays then? You do need a little sun every day. You don’t need to fry, but you do need some real D rays to reach your skin to boost your body’s Vitamin D levels. Actually prevents cancer and chronic illness. It’s also very good for your bones.
Rachel, yes, my good friend just was diagnosed with very low Vitamin D levels and needs to head into the sun, which hasn’t been easy because this spring has been so chilly. I try to protect my face but I need some sun on my body, it improves my mood as well.
Low vitamin D can also cause depression. My mom has low vitamin D levels because she can’t take much sun exposure, so she takes about 8000ml a day to supplement, Dr’s orders.
@ minx, yes, sunlight is very, very good for your mood. I worked in mental health and yes, that is true. Many sunscreens are far more toxic than too much sun.
@Rachel: maybe she takes a vitamin D supplement.
Diane Keaton did it before Madonna. She did the facelift(s), AND gloves AND turtlenecks, until it just couldn’t be hidden anymore. Madonna is hardly the OG she wants to be.
You don’t have to be young in order to be relevant, but in this society, yes, women do have to be young and beautiful to be relevant and only relevant peripherally to men. Like Cher, Madonna does want to be perpetually young. She has the means to do whatever she wants with her body, but yes, you don’t see men going to extreme lengths to look youthful. That is sad for women, but it’s a double blow to blame women for this. Madonna is relevant to me for the good music and entertainment she has provided over the years. Why is it Mick Jagger is a legend fathering children into his seventies and Madonna is reviled as “pathetic” and “irrelevant”? Men don’t get a fraction of the shit women do for aging. It’s just infuriating.
Agreed, great comment. She’s trying to make the point that women are still relevant regardless of age, and many people are insisting that she’s not relevant and tie it to her aging, which is ageism.
She’s made a lot of great entertainment in her life. But people can’t wait to tear her down because she fights aging, which is not what most people would do but it’s her body, her right. It doesn’t take away any of her accomplishments.
This. “But people can’t wait to tear her down because she fights aging.” It’s a bit of a sport. Honestly though, for all the talk about how less focus or emphasis needs to be put on women’s physical appearances because we’re more than that, judgment of women for their physical appearance choices seems to take up a lot of space in the culture.
Age and the wisdom that go along with it will always be relevant. I think the problem is wanting to remain young. One can not live a long life, get old, and remain young! Looking young for one’s age may be desirable…but eventually, one has to start looking old! (Looking 65 when you are 80 for example.)
What is sad about Madonna is her striving, with all the cosmetic procedures and assorted tricks to look young, instead of looking young naturally by healthy living, good diet and so on, which could have been attainable for her. (See Helen Mirren, Yazemeenah Rossi, Meryl Streep, etc.) She chose not to get on that boat a long time ago. What she “really” would look like now, if allowed to age naturally, we will never know.
Here is the real truth, men laugh at our jokes, pretend we are interesting when we are young because well they want to be with us and desire us They drop that show when as we age we become less desirable, they treat us the way they really feel on the inside. We do it to men as well I guess, we laugh at the guys jokes we are attracted to even if he isn’t funny. Its sad but true, a woman’s worth is still her beauty and youth in our society. Hope it changes soon but unfortunately it won’t for our generations just yet.
I don’t know…I think ones attitude can be very attractive. As we age (I’m 65) being fun, curious, brave, having an ‘IDGAF I’m just going to do it’ attitude is very sexy. Before I got with Mr. Jaded at 62, I got hit on by quite a few men, some younger than me. But women full of desperation to stay young are actually a bit of a turn-off. A woman I know is a walking pharmacopoeia of injectibles, lifts, botox, she works out relentlessly and is thin as a rail, died blonde hair, eyebrows and eyeliner tattooed on, all the procedures you can think of. She can’t find a man, or if she does it’s because she’s filthy rich. I guess what I’m trying to say is don’t fight aging so much (I don’t dye my hair, I’ve never had cosmetic procedures and don’t intend to), just embrace it as elegantly and honestly as I can. Life is good at this age, not something to be afraid of or hide it behind cosmetic walls, it will catch up to you and not in a good way.
I personally think Mick Jagger is gross and I totally judge him for having babies at his age and dating in his grandchildren’s age range. But I get your point, men are looked at differently as they age. I don’t truly care what Madonna does, but I guess I see her the same way I see Mick, she is being dragged kicking and screaming into the aging process, but there is nothing anyone can do, it’s gonna happen to all of us. So for that, she does look sad to me. I look at someone like Helen Mirren who conducts herself in a classy manner and is just gorgeous and though she is older than Madonna, the difference in how I view them is startling… but then I guess we can all act however we want and it’s how you want to present yourself. I plan to take the Helen route! I do sympathise with people in the public eye who are judged so harshly, but society needs to see that older women are still beautiful women.
As a woman only a few years younger than Madonna, I would have a lot more respect for her message is she actually talked about the realities of aging. I’m sorry but there is no getting around what menopause does to a woman’s body, everything dries up and yes I do mean Everything! Without hormone replacement therapy sex can be very painful due to dryness and atrophy. Frankly the thought of having to try and please some young stud muffin makes me want to take a nap lol. Yes, women can and should eat right, exercise, limit alcohol intake, not smoke, etc but you can’t fight biology and genetics. My sisters and I all have the same wrinkles our mother had and we’re all having a devil of a time with menopause. I’m the youngest so I’ve gotten to hear all the horror stories over the years and foolishly thought, “no, that won’t be me” but it is. So my message to Madonna would be, if you truly want to fight ageism, then start telling the truth about it. Quit with the lies that everything is perfect, your body is perfect, sex is perfect as you’re approaching sixty, us fellow biddies aren’t fooled.
Preach, sister. I’m pushing 50 and agree: it’s braver to confront the reality of aging and talk about it honestly than to pretend that it isn’t happening.
Agree!
“Fellow biddy” here agrees. 😂
I like and support that you’ve opened up this conversation. I do too wish there was an open and ongoing conversation about it, so that women could have more tools at their disposal to grapple all that ageing brings.
I’m in my late thirties and my body is already changing and I wouldn’t know where to start looking for info regarding all that. And all round the idea, it seems to me is, as long as women ‘look good’ with the help of makeup, surgery, etc, then they must feel good too? And then we end up talking about that outside shell and not about real things we’re experiencing.
I dunno if I relayed what I’m thinking about correctly, but English isn’t my first language and also I feel like I would benefit from a writing course just to be able to do that.
Hi Doc, I think you relayed your thoughts perfectly! I started going through peri-menopause around the of 35 and let me tell you that I’m still surprised that my new marriage survived it. My doctor (female) kept telling me that I was too young to be going through peri-menopause but yet I was. It was so upsetting to not be receiving any type of support from the medical community, it’s as though they don’t want to acknowledge aging either. I found two books that really helped me out, they are The Silent Passage by Gail Sheehy and New Menopausal Years by Susan Weed. The second is kind of hippy dippy with ceremonies to mark your change and herbal teas and tinctures that can help with the various symptoms. I would also encourage you to find an older woman, relative or friend, that you consider wise and understanding. My older friends and sisters are my lifeline! They have given me so much useful information, advice and support.
I can say that the internal changes are/can be even more profound than the external changes. It is a beautiful to time to explore your inner self, to discover who you are without all the external markers. It is also a really tough time, you might discover, as I did, things about yourself that you don’t really like, things that you’re not proud of and while you can’t erase things you’ve done, menopause is a time to make peace with those things, a time to leave the past behind and move forward. A number of people tell me that not only do I not tolerate bs anymore but that I’m also kinder, more patient and gentle. Good luck on your journey!
Harla, as Prairiegirl says…preach sister!! I’m over 60 and I wish there were more conversation around what menopause does to us rather than talking about Botox and fillers and so forth. The overall weight gain, the thickening waistline, the difficulty in maintaining muscle tone, the thinning hair, the dry skin (and dry everything), these things contribute so much to the “look” of aging and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Other than the obvious like healthy eating and exercise and so forth to help you feel better. I’m talking about the changes our bodies will go through no matter what and the effects menopause has on our outward appearance.
I don’t know for sure but I have to believe Madonna is menopausal based on just her age. There’s nothing about it we should be ashamed of and yet….
I agree with everything she said about us not just giving up because we’re aging. But as other commenters pointed out, what about aging naturally? As I’ve gotten older I would love to reach out to younger women and give them the true facts on what it’s like. Nobody did that for me and some of it has been quite the shock I tell you. And it WILL happen to every single woman no matter the current state of their youth or beauty. Time is the great equalizer.
I just don’t think Madonna is really the right person to be carrying this message publicly. I admire her grit and fierce determination but she’s so obviously aging artificially that it sends a conflicting message.
Let’s have some real, non-celebrity discussions about aging for women.
Excellent !! Harla and all thank you for your great words.
Old fart here too (or is that fartess?). Yes menopause wreaks havoc. I’ve had to go on gabapentin to control thermo-nuclear hot flashes/night sweats/insomnia. But there are ways to deal with the dried-up bits (lots of good internal moisturizers, I recommend Gynotroff and a lube called Sliquid – all natural). I use a bit of estriol in cream form which just takes the edge off. But I’m happier than I was when I was in my twenties and thirties. You’re right about talking to younger women about how to handle getting older – don’t hide from it. Don’t be embarrassed by it, embrace it because at our age we’re a whole lot smarter, more experienced at life and have a ton of wisdom to offer. And that is sexy. Madonna’s version comes off as shallow and false because despite what she says, it’s how she presents herself that contradicts everything she preaches.
Here, here Jaded!! I think older women are so much more attractive because they are smarter, experienced and wise, the outside might be going to hell but the inside is simply stunning!!
Thank you for the kind words and recommendations Harla, and the lube recommendations Jaded :).
I’m on pregabalmin for MS symptoms and it’s a godsend, but the downside is lower libido which seems to be getting lower on it’s own as the years go by 🤷🏻♀️. Some of my symptoms include numbness and tingling in the genital area so that doesn’t help intimacy… sigh 😔
Madonna is definitely not the first celebrity I think of for skincare. I don’t think I’d like to have skin like hers.
She’s not wrong about aging or Lisbon lol
I’m not judging her face I’m sure she didn’t walk into a surgeons office and demand noticeable work. Cosmetic procedures always carry a risk. This is clearly a woman who has been told for decades that she has an industry expiration date and she’s just dealing with it like Madonna does. I’m not out here at my age looking for life guidance from anyone either so I don’t know ha. Just get a little Botox and don’t worry about your face it’s no big deal.
I wish she had no messed with her face. She was gorgeous in her 40s. I think she trully started plastic surgeries during or after “confessions on a dance floor”.
Yep. Her skin was great in her 40s. She was bad ass in most of her 40s. From 50 on, it was sad. But she’s a contradiction. She’s pathetic in many ways, hanging on to youth in a desperate way, not a Sharon Stone sexy way (who shows you can be sexy at 60 without looking desperate). But I will give Madonna this: Madonna does still move forward, always working on various projects at one time and raising her children. I don’t see that ever stopping.
So agree. Sharon stone looks sexy and uber beautiful at 60 without trying to act or be a twenty-something year old. If Madonna didn’t succumb to all that surgery she would look as stunning as Sharon. Instead she looks very done and downright scary. She clearly has not embraced aging.
I just find her sad at this point. She could have embraced aging and made it look cool. Instead, she pumps her face with fillers and botox, walks around with gloves on her hands all the time and posts cleavage photos to Instagram like a desperate wannabe Instagram model.
You don’t see Tina Turner doing that crap.
I basically agree about Madonna.
But i definitely think Tina Turner has done “something” by now.
I think Madonna should take a look at how Patti Smith is aging – she still looks like herself and still looks her own unique way of attractive, and her voice is still there. And she is still considered relevant and cool as ever.
Madonna started looking weird somewhere after 2008 when she got the huge cheek implants and something was done to her lips that made her look like the Joker. I looked at some photos just now and she looked incredible and natural right up until 2008.
Great example. Patti Smith. As relevant as ever, if not more so! xx
Those cheek implants were freakishly terrible.
cheek implants NOT! she already had high cheekbones- just TOO TOO MUCH RESTYLENE FILLER will do this in minutes …she has a good face, just too much filler….
@ihaveto OK, thanks I dont know anything about plastic surgery. But yeah, all the better, she should stop with the fillers. She does have high cheekbones, its not like her face is gonna fall flat if she does.
It kind of proves her point though when her doing things like having exposed cleavage on instagram is viewed as proof of her desperation to be young. Madonna is a woman who for decades has been known for being about women not having to be ladylike (among other things). She didn’t just suddenly start showing cleavage and more at 50 or even 40, so it’s kind of odd how her showing her body so much is seen as some new symptom of her fear of aging.
What is weird now compared to the 80s and 90s Madonna is that she shows her cleavage, her butt, her everything – but never her hands. Which is ridiculous and sad at the same time. Because you can’t trick time and no matter how much you mutilate your face and body to look youthful, the hands still cannot be transformed by plastic surgery and will reveal your age.
So here we have a woman who boasts about her sexiness and sc*ewing young studs (no comment here, more power to her!) who hides her hands the same way post-36 yo Greta Garbo covered her face with a mask in public.
This is not age-defying energy, just creepines: showing your t*ts and butt cheeks but covering your hands.
No one cares that she dates younger men or is still out there performing. It wasn’t the “boundary pushing”. It was the desperate need to try and stay relevant-either by baring more and more at events, or all the (very) obvious plastic surgery and work. All the grasping and neediness gets reflected outward-and that’s what people responded to. If it makes her feel better to try and spin it like it’s “the patriarchy” fine-but really, I think for a lot of people, she just doesn’t appear genuine.
The Cut: Have you ever done something in the pursuit of beauty that you now regret?
Jane Seymour: Botox. I tried it about 20 years ago. I think it’s great for lots of people, but I lost all of my expression. Even if you only get a little Botox, you don’t have enough expression to be an actress. It also gave me a ridge on my forehead. I may change my mind, but I’m already 67, what am I trying to pretend? That I’m 30? I don’t want to spend forever obsessing over my look.
https://www.thecut.com/2018/04/jane-seymour-playboy-crepe-erase-metoo-interview.html
Reading this interview, a Golden Girls dialogue popped into my mind.
Blanche: “For the first time in my life, I feel over 40.”
Dorothy: “You know why that is, honey?”
Blanche: “Why?”
Dorothy: “Because you’re over 50.”
Talking about women over 40, when you are pushing 60 seems weird to me. Of course 59 is OVER 40… but why can’t she just talk about women over 50 or almost 60? Because it sounds old? Maybe I am ageist with my take, I don’t know.
lol really. She passed 40 nearly two decades ago.
Good point – that was kind of weird to me, too. Why 40? Maybe that is when Madonna started to feel expired.
Madonna has been getting ageist comments since she was 40. I remember it being the subject of conversation back then.
I noticed that too, but I think she specifically mentioned over 40 because that seems to be the age where it starts for women- the “you’re way too old to not be dressing/acting like a respectable lady. Where is your class? Can’t you age gracefully?” conversation. It’s already started a while ago with J.Lo for example.
@otaku fairy , yes I agree. i hope J.Lo keeps her face though. She still looks very beautiful to me.
I got why she used the “after 40” phrase. Otaku Fairy made great points above as to why.
Haha That show was so perfect, and the more I think about it, really cutting edge. Too bad that was lost on me because I was too young to appreciate those wonderful characters (and actresses) as anything but grannies.
It feels like 50 is the age women (including me) become invisible. Forty never felt old to me.
Forty sounded odd to me too (considering her individual age), but for her generation maybe 40 was the benchmark for seeming “old”.
When Demi Moore turned 40, I remember all these articles lauding how she was the best-looking 40 year old with her great body, like it was a miracle. Now, having a great body at 40 doesn’t seem as much of an anomaly (i.e Halle Berry is 52, J-Lo is 47, Jennifer Aniston is 49, Sandra Bullock is 53, etc — being in meticulous shape after a certain age doesn’t seem unusual for people among the celebrity set.)
I did think Brenda and Brandon’s parents on 90210 were pretty frumpy-looking 40 year olds though. Maybe that’s what Madonna’s reference point is.
Maybe we need a Frumpy Acceptance movement. Nothing wrong with frumpy, as long as you’re happy.
I think part of Madonna’s problem is that she wants to appeal to young people, and she needs to rethink that. She has an older fan base who are still interested in her as a performer. She’s just never going to be relevant to a 20 year old.
Young people have a sophisticated palate as far as music and looks. Madonna in her late 50s dumbing herself down musically or showing her ass on the red carpet does make her look desperate. Everyone can age in their own way. I don’t think she has to conform to others’ standards. I just think it should look and feel authentic coming from her, and grillz in her mouth and a face that’s not very recognizable and her ass out at red carpets, when that wasn’t the case ever, seems try-hard, not effortless.
There’s plenty of older acts that are relevant to 20-something’s. Madonna’s problem is that for the past 15 years she’s done nothing relevant to anyone. She’s just been trying to copy young pop girls. She used to be a trend-setter, now she’s a follower who comes to everything 2 years too late.
It would be like if say, David Bowie had looked at Justin Timberlake a decade ago and decided what he needed was hip hop dance classes and some Timbaland beats.
Madonna has not grasp the art of aging gracefully. I agree with you Kaiser. She wants to be considered young and hip, 80’s Madonna who paved the way for woman and 90s Madge. Sadly that doesn’t hold true any more.
Kaiser, you’ve had a busy Sunday!
So that’s why she wears gloves all of the time now! Lightbulb moment for me. I wondered what was going on with the gloves and now I know.
While her plastic surgery habit seems in contradiction to the idea of gracefully aging (whatever that is), I like that she is openly discussing ageism against women. I don’t look for Madonna to give some perfectly crafted statements on anything. But she does bring important things up. She was an advocate for gays when it was not popular, and as a young gay at the time, I appreciated that. Now, as a woman over 50, it’s nice to hear her talking about ageism.
ditto
Typical Madonna: acting like what she’s saying hasn’t been said before and better and by more interesting people.
Her plastic surgery probably would have been fine if she had picked the right plastic surgeon. I assume everyone in Hollywood has done something — she should have just gone to Michelle Pfeiffer’s surgeon instead.
I didn’t think her advice sounded bad. She has high energy levels so maybe being adventuresome and on-the-go (which is how I see her) is a way to utilize that energy. I do think she’s insecure about her face, but I also think her adventurous spirit is a genuine thing for her. I don’t see the two as mutually exclusive.
It’s not the plastic surgery that was bad, like a partial face lift I think she had done years ago But the cheek implants are a mistake on everybody. And then what has ruined her face is all of the filler loaded on top of the implants. Maybe she took the implants out. I don’t know. But the overuse of botox and cheek filler has her looking like Joyce Wildenstein half the time, much like Brandi Glanville does.
Madonna’s narcissism is so severe that she refuses to see how she has ruined her looks. Susan Sarandon is someone who has done it beautifully. She is 71-years-old and looks simply amazing but natural, glowing skin. She has done tweaks that look natural. She doesn’t have that plastic surgery nor botox/ filler-gone-crazy look.
What are cheek implants considered to be? Are they plastic surgery? I do agree that stuff she did to her face is bad.
I tend to think personality has a lot to do with looks. Madonna was born wth attractive features, but sometimes her personality can be off-putting (like that time she kept swearing on David Letterman and nothing could stop her), and at times I have viewed her looks less positively because of that (even before the cheek implants).
It’s definitely plastic surgery. There’s an incision made to insert the implants. I think the incisions are made inside the mouth. I might have phrased it wrong in my post, that made it look like I was saying getting implants isn’t plastic surgery.
What’s with the roots? I just don’t get it.
She’s edgy. Haven’t you seen the grill in her mouth? Oh, so edgy. LOL
The rumor is that her hair is now gray and she colors the roots dark to maintain the fiction that she’s still a natural brunette.
lol, that’s one of the most pathetic things I ever heard!
OMG. She could ROCK the silver crown. Why fight it, especially when you’re pushing 60?
Madonna is stuck in the mindset of her workplace. She has to focus on looking young and using a lot of makeup and other aids because that’s considered necessary for her to continue to do her work and enjoy her life. She is very likely correct on that assessment.
But many women around the world don’t have that same constraint. In my work as a scientist and as a translator, even in the US there has never been any pressure to use cosmetics (and pressure against in the lab, it’s hazardous…). I don’t have to look younger because age is an asset in my work and we tend to keep at it long past retirement age. We really do get better as we get older.
A friend who is also an engineer (Ph.D.) finally retired from scientific translation at 80 only because he wanted to focus on writing a novel and poetry and traveling. He’s still writing at 97 although he is physically slowed down. I know translators still doing it in their 90s. Allegedly having to think about complex subjects in two languages at once is somewhat protective against dementia…. Or even in just one language — scientists tend to work longer also even if only part-time.
There are many women living in places and cultures and in jobs that do not require the efforts that Madonna assumes are universal for women. They have other challenges, but feeling the need to inject Botox and “act/look young” is really not one of them. All this is very culture and job dependent, and if you hang around with people similar to you on both counts, you get a skewed idea of the rest. She may very well assume that those of us who don’t wear makeup etc. and just let age take its course and don’t pay a lot of attention to our hair and clothing are somehow deficient or oppressed or something. But I really don’t even think about the things she has to think about all the time (and vice versa). My life is just very different from hers. Definitely wouldn’t trade, though.
I agree with the idea of what Madonna is saying – there is a lot of ageism against women in particular. A person should get better as they get older. More wise experienced and comfortable with themselves, mind and body. No matter what age, you should be open minded, wanting to try new things etc. but yeah the extreme plastic surgery she has had really negates a lot of what she is saying. I think you should try to look the best you can, look your best and can sexy at any age, but no one is perpetually going to look 20-30 years younger all the time no matter how much effort you put into it. I understand she is under the microscope as a star that has been known for her sexuality, and none of us have been in her shoes. But it would be so much more of a statement if she could continue to be her best without trying to look artificially young, attention seeking on social media and always trying to be “sexy.” Aging isn’t easy for most people , especially physically. But seeing all the plastic surgery and youth obsession I think makes it worse.
I recently rediscovered Norma Kamali through Garance Dore’s podcast, ‘Pardon My French’. Norma is 72 years old and aging well. Check out her website, especially her exercise videos. Goals!!
The thing that bothered me most about her comments? Fun, curious and sexy are the way you would describe the female lead in a romantic comedy with limited character development. Because it’s how a male-dominated power structure has helped to define female allure (perpetually trapped in the body of a nubile 20-something) over the past century.
I dream of a day when young women are more consistently associated with words like intelligent, powerful, brave, strong, educated, accomplished, visionary, competitive, articulate, focused, driven, opinionated, self-aware, compassionate. Gender-neutral, valuable qualities that can transcend time and age.
This!
Yes!! This is what men expect of us. The curiosity they like is related to “experiment” new feelings, not about knowledge curiosity.
Honestly, I agree with everything she says
Same here. It’s not that I think people are wrong to guess that she fears the aging process- that’s a potentially scary process for many reasons- it’s just that her refusal to magically transform into some classy woman is probably not a symptom of that. There are already enough ‘classy woman’- types in their 50’s. It’s the expectation.
EXACTLY
Just the other day I listened to some of Madonna’s 80s songs, and it brought back memories.
It’s SO sad to see her like this. I don’t mean the aging–that happens to everyone–but the refusal to accept life’s processes. And, I don’t mean that people can’t get surgery–a few tweaks can make people feel better–and that’s fine. But, she did a full overhaul, and now, her face looks twisted. I think of someone like Helen Mirren who is hot, and maybe, had a tweak, or not, but seems happy & comfortable in her skin. I think of other women who don’t try to STOP the aging process, but work with it.
I honestly think Madonna would have been a total fox without all this surgery. Sure, she would be older, but she would not look so strange. It’s her vanity & narcissism that made her refuse to accept aging AT ALL. Like it was a war she had to fight. But there’s no way to win.
She thought she could conquer it, but in so many ways, the fear of aging has conquered her. It’s written all over her wrinkle-free face. And that’s sad. The other pop divas should take notes.
Personally, I would rather not think of my age, and enjoy my life, rather than spend SO MUCH time going to surgeons, going for crazy facials, spas, gyms, treatments, searching for the greatest anti-aging lotions, make overs, hair stylists, clothes, wearing gloves to conceal my hands, working out like mad, watching every bite of food, pills, diet supplements, etc. Sorry, but fear is no way to live.
The saddest thing is, she seems to be trying to convince people she’s younger than she is. “Women over 40?” Strange words for a woman pushing 60. Why not “women over 50?” Or “women over 60?” Then she talks about her struggles at the beginning of her career, and those challenges “20 years ago” — except she started her career closer to 40 years ago than 20 (at least, her first studio album was 35 years ago. That, plus the very obvious (and bad) plastic surgery she’s had over the years.
The thing is, I don’t care how old Madonna is. But only a true hypocrite would pretend to “own” getting older, then turn around and try to give the impression they are 20 years younger. I think what she really is, is incredible insecure.