It’s my hope now that Kensington Palace just gets back to business-as-usual in the final days of the royal-wedding preparations. Thomas Markle took up too many headlines and he sucked all of the air out of the room. It was awful, and an awful thing to do to his daughter. A source even told People Magazine that all of the family drama has been really difficult and “I can’t imagine how hard all of this has been for Meghan…She doesn’t deserve all this drama the week of her wedding.” It’s true. Planning a wedding is stressful enough, but to have all of this bullsh-t dumped in her lap… well, it’s not great. Anyway, the palace did return to business as usual – they announced Meghan and Harry’s “wedding party,” all of the little bridesmaids and groomsmen:
Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will have the cutest group of bridesmaids and page boys on their royal wedding day — 10 of them, in fact! Leading the pack are royal siblings Prince George, 4, and Princess Charlotte, 3, Kensington Palace announced on Wednesday. Harry’s royal nephew and niece will reprise their roles from their aunt Pippa Middleton’s wedding last May.
Several of Harry and Meghan’s godchildren and children of their friends will also serve in the bridal party. Here’s who will be joining George and Charlotte in their bridal party duties: Miss Florence van Cutsem, 3, daughter of Alice van Cutsem and Major Nicholas van Cutsem, and a goddaughter of Harry. Florence is also the cousin of one of Prince William and Kate’s most memorable bridesmaids, Grace van Custem.
Miss Remi Litt, 6, and her sister Rylan, 7, daughters of Benita Litt, LA-based brand curator and bag designer, and Darren Litt. Both girls are Meghan’s goddaughters. Miss Ivy Mulroney, 4, the daughter of Jessica Mulroney, a stylist and friend who has been helping Meghan, and Benedict Mulroney, who is the son of former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney. Miss Zalie Warren, 2, daughter of Zoe Warren and Jake Warren, and a goddaughter of Harry. Jasper Dyer, 6, son of Harry’s old friend and mentor Mark Dyer and his American wife Amanda. Twins Brian and John Mulroney, 7, the brothers of Ivy and son of the Mulroneys.
Meghan isn’t having a maid or matron of honor because “she has a very close-knit circle of friends and she didn’t want to choose one over another.” Which I understand, except… who is going to be in charge of wrangling all of these children?!? Say what you will about Pippa Middleton’s thunder-stealing ass of lies at her sister’s wedding, but Pippa was actually “in charge” of making sure that the kids behaved and did everything according to plan. There are some very small kids who will need their hands held before and during the wedding. It’s going to be shambolic.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Maybe Poor Jason will get the job?
Good point. I forgot Pippa wrangled all that cuteness under control.
She did, and did a solid job, actually.
…….I think William is still up as best man so perhaps we will get to see him darting after little strays and weepers in his uniform.
Yea she really did a good job. Someone will need to wrangle them. Normally kate would be perfect for the job but with a newborn I’m sure she’s going to want to relax
I’m kinda secretly hoping that Harry has to wind up wrangling a few of them. Yeah, I know, he’s the groom and shouldn’t have to be bothered with it. But he’s so damn cute with children I can’t stand it!
Why are there so few pageboys compared to bridesmaids?
Um, excluding William and Kate’s, I’m pretty sure there wasn’t any adult bridesmaid wrangling the kids at previous royal weddings? I think they’ll be fine.
By my count there are 4 pageboys out of the 10 children. It’s really not that unevenly split.
Lady Sarah Armstrong (Princess Margaret’s daughter) was the wrangler at the wedding of Charles and Diana). Maid of Honour.
The children at Diana’s wedding weren’t as young as the ones at Fergie, Sophie or Kate’s weddings.
Most were older children (within the 5-10range) or pre-teens (10-12range)
I know it’s traditional, but it’s boring! I actually enjoyed Pippa’s “thunder-stealing a$$ of lies” dress and self. She just looked like a human version of one of the hens from Chicken Run (and back then I didn’t know it was an a$$ of lies!)
Buhaha! Chicken run. That’s what she looks like!
Wait, Pippa has an ass of lies, does that mean it’s fake like Khloe’s Pinocchio butt?
Not implants like Khloe’s ass of lies. I think it eventually came out that Pippa used padding of some kind to fill out her dress.
I might eat my words, but I’m fairly sure it will be fine. I doubt near a dozen young children are going to be set loose to run amok. They will have someone watching, I’m sure. Just not an official maid/matron.
Yeah I seem to recall this same issue in run up to Pippa’s wedding. I thought there was no official maid of honour and Kate just acted as helper and big sister. I’m half expecting Kate to do the same here but more for Harry’s sake than Meghan’s as she doesn’t know Meghan well. If not Kate, Jessica Mulroney then as all her kids are in the wedding party.
Also Brian Mulroney is probably beside himself with glee about this. The man was such an attention hog this is making me smile on his behalf.
This is a really dumb idea.
Sit all your girlfriends down, be an adult, tell them you love them and you made the agonizing decision to pick X as MoH because of her Y qualifications. Accept that they’re adults who can handle it and if they can’t, cut ‘em loose. Release a presser with mini bio of joe great each one is to smooth any minority’s ruffled feathers. If they’re your closest girlfriends and they’re adults, they’ll get it. This is just dumb if it’s truly going to be a bunch of little kids up there. But hey what do I know, plus I only have a passing interest in this. I hope it turns out great and super adorable but I personally would not take this risk.
“Release a presser with mini bio of joe great each one is to smooth any minority’s ruffled feathers.”?
Huh?
Hah! Minorly!! Not minority’s! I corrected that TWICE and AutoCorrect was just insistent, and I didn’t notice. 😛 I was referring to MINORLY hurt feelings. Because like I said three times, they’re all adults and hopefully we’ll adjusted enough to know this isn’t about them, even if they’re slightly miffed at their positioning in the wedding party. But again, I’m wasting a lot of words on a hypothetical.
Maybe she does not wanted to be bothered with all that meetings and doing a press releases. It is not that serious. Are people desperate to be bridesmaids or maid of honor theses days? I have been to plenty of weddings with no maid of honor and am now seeing some with no bridesmaids at all. People did not seem effected.
“Affected”
I don’t know why anyone wants to be a bridesmaid! The one time I was asked, it was a real pain in the ass! Not to mention the ugly dress and shoes I had to pay for. Of course the bride was a nazi. She actually “fired” one of her 8 (yes, 8!!!) because she felt she wasn’t doing enough for her in the weeks before the wedding. Then another girl forgot her dyed to match burgundy Paylsss shoes. The bride was so pissed off she didn’t speak to her during the entire reception. It’s a crap job, man!
I’ve been to tons of weddings without a wrangler and where the bridesmaids and groomsmen have not been paired up. (I’m English). This sounds more like a British style wedding than American. Id hazard a guess that all the clothes have been paid for by the couple too lol Imagine that!
Um maybe she actually cant decide because she’s equally close to all of them?
It’s traditional at these weddings to just have children. It will be adorable and completely fine.
The great thing about people who loudly announce how many friends they have is that it’s always 100% true and accurate. Yup.
Maybe considering her trashy family, the BRF hinted they didn’t want any of her trashy friends like Millie Macintosh front and centre?
LOL. I’m happy for Meghan and Harry and love that they’re getting married, but I have to pause every time I remember that she is good friends with Millie Macintosh. LOL.
Millie and that fiance of hers, Hugo, are the definition of materialistic famewhores.
Every time that name comes up I’m vexed all over again that the US only got one season of Made In Chelsea 😂😂.
Pippa married TMW James Matthews, half-brother of Made in Chelsea’s Spencer Matthews. Small world.
I agree, or just have bridesmaids and no maid of honor. Having a bunch of kids do it is a little strange to me.
@Jay
You would think a group of women in their mid to late thirties wouldn’t be so thin-skinned. At that age, they should be mature enough to handle only one being picked as MOH.
Who was MOH at MM’s first wedding????
The MOH at her first wedding was Ninaki Priddy, the childhood friend she dropped around the time of her divorce from her first husband. The one who called her calculating, said TV fame went to her head, etc. I don’t think she got an invite to this one 🙂
“Unlike in American weddings where bridesmaids are typically the same age as the bride, ‘most royal brides do not have adult bridesmaids,’ royals expert Marlene Koenig told T[own] & C[ountry] late last year. ‘If you look at the royal weddings since [Queen] Elizabeth’s, you will find that most of the bridesmaids are early teens or children.'”
I’d rather deal with a gaggle of children hopped up on sugar than have to deal with ANY of the Bridesmaid drama that I’ve dealt with in the past…so I WHOLLY approve!
Plus how sweet are the photos with the kids like that? All dolled up and excited and bursting with energy. I’d prefer it too – one of my bridesmaids was a GIANT pain in the butt to everyone. I only found out half the issues the others had with her after the wedding because they tried to keep it seeming more smooth than it actual was for my benefit ahah.
I love that photo of Pippa with the kids. It’s just cute.
Some of the kids are SO young, its going to be like hearding cats except there is going to be nobody in the bridal party to do the hearding!!. And the Mulroney children only arrived in the UK today so they only have a maximum of three days to practise as a group! Yes, this has all the ingredients of being shambolic.
I can see this working well with 5 and 6 year olds, but two and three? Yikes.
Chaos is beautiful
Her butt was meh…I don’t even know how that became news
All because of one photo.
Pippa isn’t exactly Kardashianesque in the butt department but there was one particular picture (she was bending down and arrange the veil) that gave her curves and boom, voila!
And wasn’t she wearing some kind of butt padding, because she actually has a flat ass? (I empathize, I have a totally flat ass.)
We had a family wedding recently with a bunch of two and three year old flower girls and page boys, who were all incredibly adorable, but hilariously terrible at their jobs. It was a small wedding, with family, I can’t imagine asking a bunch of smallies to perform in front of hundreds of strangers without at least one adult to shepherd them along.
“Say what you will.. but Pippa was actually “in charge”of …”.
I would add that all the Middletons have always been there for Kate and hands-on on every aspect from the “waity period” to the wedding preparation and ceremony, and to the post-wedding. And they still are supportive. Many criticize the Middletons but I would always take them over the Markles.
Yes. It’s actually lovely to witness them supporting each other.
I never understood why that family being close was sometimes seen as a negative.
It’s not the closeness that’s the issue, it’s the social climbing and the fact that Kate is nearly 40 yet she seems completely unable to function without her mother there to stage manage her.
supporting each other like old wisteria vines …
Best man William can be a wrangler when they are exiting.
Isn’t there only going to be one carriage? Dang that means that we won’t get to see William in a carriage with a bunch of kiddies. 🙁
The kids always travel in a separate carriage. As they are unimportant, no need to publicise their designated carriage.
At WK’s wedding, Pippa travelled with half the kids in her carriage and Harry travelled with the other half in his own carriage.
I know that for the weddings in London there were multiple carriages and if they follow that model then I will get my wish and see best man William in a carriage with kiddies, a la Harry at William and Kate’s wedding. I recently read, or perhaps I misunderstood, that there will not be multiple carriages at Harry and Meghan’s wedding in Windsor, just the bride and groom carriage.
Will there be one carriage or multiple carriages?
The kiddies traveled in other carriages at WK’s wedding and I imagine they’ll do the same this time. Some of them traveled with Harry and Pippa, and one of them was Camilla’s granddaughter (I think), she said afterwards that Harry had given the girl a little toy he’d been carrying in his pocket while they were in the carriage, to help distract her from the crowds cheering. She was so enamored with it, she refused to let go of it for the official photographs, and you can see her holding it in them. It’s such a sweet and thoughtful little gesture, that Harry knew in advance how scary it would be and on such a huge occasion, remembered to bring a toy with him to help keep a little child calm. It really elevated him in my eyes.
Yeah I know that there were multiple carriages at William and Kate’s wedding and that the both Harry and Pippa rode in carriages with the kiddies. My initial comment was me lamenting that there will not be multiple carriages at Harry and Meghan’s wedding, just one for the bride and groom, so we will miss out on William riding in a carriage with kiddies. However if my understanding is incorrect, then that’s a good thing because then we will get to see William riding in a carriage with kiddies.
Chances are, Jessica Mulroney will be herding the children (sheep) where one go the others will follow.
I thought Mia Tindall was going to be in the wedding party.
This wedding could do with a laugh, and if the children provide it all the better, instead of the Markles behaving like mouthy children.
So Thomas is getting a procedure done today, we all have to live with the choices we make.
Yeah that’s my thought given that she’s the mother of three of the children in the bridal party. I know that Pippa’s wedding was not a royal wedding, but Kate, who did not have a formal role in the wedding, was the wrangler and herded the kids in and out of the church and rode in one of the limos ferrying the kids.
We don’t know when Zara is due, but it must be soon. It could be having Mia as part of this would have added stress to Mike and Zara’s lives right now.
Nannies. Lots of invisible nannies.
While Kate was ostensibly herding the kidlets at Pips’ wedding,, Maria the nanny was lurking in the shadows.
From what was seen, Kate seemed to be only interested in her two children, not so much the others. She looked to be unfamiliar with dealing with children. Nanny Maria, invisible, did the work required.
Except for who the kids are, this was announced a few weeks ago that the bridal party would be only children. There were adults around when the bridal party were kids. It’s not that big of a deal.
I had trouble enough wrangling my own daughter let alone ten of them! And boys included! Omg! I can’t even go there!
I used to volunteer for all my daughter’s school field trips on the condition that I only be responsible for a group of girls. Until one time I got a mixed group of boys and girls and of course one of the boys couldn’t stop touching everything IN A MUSEUM. Drove me crazy! Then again he was the only one who thanked me at the end of the day. Sigh.
I’m surprised the teacher went along with your request. We always have so many willing parents that a diva demand wouldn’t make the cut. And as a mom of four boys, I find your generalizations annoying.
Well Bungler, you must have little angels. Good for you. The groups were divided into boys groups and girls groups. I wanted a girls group and never had a single problem with any of them. Until the one time they weren’t separated by gender. And yes, it was annoying to have to tell one little boy to keep his hands to himself five hundred times.
Well, other Renee, you sound like a really lovely person. I didn’t say my boys are angels. I get sick of generalizations based entirely on gender. Having four kids of one gender gives me an interesting sample group, and they’re all totally different. And my house is loud, fun, and energetic. Wouldn’t want it any other way. If I had girls I would hope they’re as wonderful as my boys.
Yes and it’s not as if girls are angels–girls can be SUPER annoying.
You just summed up life with boys in one fell swoop
I’m surprised they didn’t ask Lady Margarita and Lady Louise, they are old enough to wrangle the kids. I don’t think the 7 year olds will be able to do it.
Given today’s social media environment? I wouldn’t subject teenagers to that kind of global scrutiny at an age where they’d be online and running into it all the time. Lady Sarah Chatto has to live with the photos of the awful meringue bridesmaids dress from Charles and Diana’s wedding, but at least people weren’t online attacking her about her appearance.
Maybe Louise, in consultation with her parents, gently made it known she didn’t want to be in the limelight like that again. Given all of the nasty comments about her during the last wedding, I wouldn’t blame her (or her parents) for not wanting her to go through that again.
There are enough royal cousins that Louise doesn’t need to do this twice. I am sure at this age she had no interest in being a part of it again.
The online teasing will be much worse if one of the younger kids ends up tripping up because of nerves or something like that (very possible). He or she will never live that embarrassment down. The older person doesn’t have to be Lady Louise but someone who is capable of providing the really, really young bridesmaids and pageboys some comfort, support and guidance as they go up and down the aisle in front of hundreds of stangers (and billions eyes worldwide).
The smaller attendants aren’t of an age to be online, which is the point I made whatever1. Any mistakes they make in this wedding will be put down to them being little kids. Any mistake Louise makes at 14 would be endlessly attacked, including social media platforms where she might have accounts (hopefully under an assumed ID). Whether Lady Louise or Lady Margarita Armstrong-Jones – the teens would suffer more than little kids.
Yay, sweet little Charlotte is a part of the wedding. I love her so much. Who cares about Thomas Sr. Markle if you can have these kiddies. 😀 I’m dancing a happy dance!
Cute. The kids will probably be better behaved than the brides family. So the Mulroney’s must be one of Lainey’s sources.
Oh definitely. I believe Lainey is a friend too but will never say nor will Meghan or anyone in their circle. She’s convenient PR management as a trusted friend.
Ben Mulroney is “anchor” of Etalk, aCanadian entertainment/gossip show & Lainey is “senior correspondent” for the show. LOL at them trying to make like it’s a real news broadcast. It is more like TMZ
I think it’s more comparable to Entertainment Tonight. They aren’t as trashy as TMZ.
This will surely ruffle some feathers, but I’ll say it: I hope some of those kids are non-white.
Don’t hold your breath. She doesn’t associate with her mother’s family either. She doesn’t have any non white friends.
Last time I looked, her good friend, Serena Williams, isn’t white.
Both of you can exhale. Benita Litt is not white and her children will be in the wedding party. *sigh*
Uh Gina Torres is a friend i believe. All her costars too.
Ugh, just because her mother’s side of the family isnt constantly selling her out to tabloids doesn’t mean she doesn’t associate with them. I would imagine it would be quite difficult to be close with one’s mum and not associate with her family. Also, off the top of my head I can name Priyanka Chopra and Serena Williams as two non white friends. And that’s without googling. I mean, can you even name 10 of her friends since you seem comfortable with making pronouncements about her?
As a non white person what difference does it make exactly ?
We can pretend race doesn’t matter; and we can pretend that visuals don’t matter — but both have a cultural impact. And, quite frankly, it would be nice for the millions of children of color, who will likely be watching this wedding, to have a diverse cast of characters represented…even in the “bridal party.”
Michelle Obama explains why “pop culture representation” matters in this article: http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/michelle-obama-on-why-tv-representation-matters.html — and this is certainly a “pop culture” event.
I think you’re really overthinking this. I have young kids in my family and while they’re fascinated by the princess aspect of this, they really don’t care about one or two kids in the wedding party being non-white. We want equal opportunity, political participation, economic prosperity not token gestures.
Sza, yes, economic prosperity is important — paramount, even — but it’s all connected. It’s all a domino effect. So, the small things are also important — including representation.
And I suppose every family is different. I know my little niece will be a bit sad. Nothing major, but a little sads. 🙂
It looks like at least two are.
I’m sure she meant black kids. Meghan’s maternal family isn’t invited, so I wasn’t expecting that anyway. Not sure why Meghan isn’t close to Doria’s side. Seems odd.
Do we know they aren’t invited? Has a guest list been released? Or are people just assuming this because they don’t seem to have TMZ on speed dial.
How do you know they’re not invited?
I didn’t mean black kids. I meant “non-white” kids, which includes a host of other nationalities. I just hope the “bridal party” is not a sea of white.
We don’t know that she has excluded her mother’s side at all. And for a while everyone was saying that the cast of Suits hated her and yet now we see IG’s of the main cast in London or Paris. The actor who plays Louis Litt strongly hinted he was going to London for the wedding.
It’s just the Markles who have been the crazy fame whores. No one else.
I read 2 members of her family have been invited. It’s from the DM, but the article mentions that half of the BRF is not invited and that part is true.
I believe two of the siblings (the Litt girls) are half white/half indian. The rest of the bridal party are all white.
Meghan doesn’t have many black friends. I think this is one of the reasons they’ve brought in a black choir & a black bishop to balance it out.
You don’t actually know the ethnic background of her entire friend group.
@Merritt Meghan wasn’t shy about posting pictures of her friends on social media. Going by what she posted the majority of her friends are white. Serena Williams was the only black friend other than her Suits colleagues whose picture she posted. It is therefore not farfetched to say that she doesn’t have that many black friends.
I stand corrected about there not being any non-white children. As has been mentioned, Benit Litts children half Indian and white. My conversation with my friend was about black women who are lauding Meghan and calling her black princess not facing the fact that Meghan, perhaps, doesn’t want that label.
@iknowwhatboyslike – yes I think that’s one of the saddest things about Meghan to be honest. Particularly as she is so close to her mother, the refusal or inability to identify and lean into ones black heritage really is historic. Meghan is essentially white passing. If she identified more as Black she definitely wouldn’t have the friends she has- certainly not the Mulroney ‘s and she likely would not have climbed so far. This is not a knock on her- just an observation.
All that said- of Meghan’s mom walks her down the aisle I will cry real tears. And if her mom is wearing her locs loud and proud I will be ecstatic.
I’m a non-white proud woman who celebrates my heritage (all of it) & most of my friends are white.
Friendships for me are not determined by race.
Meghan has many friends of various races like many people in the world…
Do you think the Mulroneys are racists?
FYI – my comment is in response to #45 by NewKay: “… If she identified more as Black she definitely wouldn’t have the friends she has- certainly not the Mulroney ‘s …”
I dont know if the Mulroneys are racist but they are elitist and full of themselves and completely annoying.
Yet Jessica seems to have a huge following on IG with many recognizable “big” names among them and as Ben often boasts, ETalk is the top entertainment show in Canada. I don’t the appeal being based on name recognition as Brian Mulroney was among the least popular of all Cdn. PM’s.
+1, I would also add tacky…
@NewKay – I’m trying to understand why Meghan “should” lean more into one heritage than another. She can’t help which set of chromosomes she landed with from her parents, and how can she be held responsible for not identifying more with the half that, tbh, she doesn’t see in the mirror? So many people, including me, with no familiarity with the show or her name, when seeing the first photos of her as Harry’s GF, went, Oh – Latina? My instant response when I saw the first photos was not “white”, but it wasn’t “black”, either. She seems to me to be not so much “white passing” as “not obviously black”. I am guessing that Meghan’s life was shaped by a combination of happenstance (her genes) and her conscious choices. But the choices were probably pushed by the happenstance, if you know what I mean. I think “refusal” re her black heritage is a little harsh – we all are profoundly affected by what we see in the mirror. I guess all I mean to say is that she seems to have done her best straddling her heritages. Forgive me if the following question is inappropriate but, given how light Meghan is, if she had leaned more heavily into her black heritage, would she have come in for resentment because of the “colorism” issue that the black community wrestles with? I ask not to be rude, but to suggest that Meghan might be a “no win” situation here. I do not doubt at all that what you say is true about the friends she has and who she is marrying are all made easier by the way she looks. I’m just trying to find out if it would have been realistic to expect her to try to be someone she didn’t feel like she was.
‘ Black’ comes in many shades…
Black will be represented at this British Royal Wedding- the first time in modern history…
I have watched (too) many royal wedding & the only weddings I noticed that had a few non-whites with significant roles were the Swedish royal weddings…
@equalitygadfly – as it happens, the Litt children have a white father and look ethnic as opposed to white, very much as Meghan herself does – they have straight hair and could be Italian, Spanish, Greek, or Native American, as you’re interested in visuals (link below).
This is why splicing and dicing race and visuals is so unproductive sometimes. Yes, they are technically “nonwhite” and practically speaking, don’t look very “nonwhite”. Does that mean they aren’t?
It is true that most of Meghan’s circle seems to be white, she is on her second white husband, and the only POC at her first wedding was her mother. But these are her choices of people and does she have to answer for them within a narrow parameter all the time? Does her heritage have to be a box?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/who-royal-wedding-bridesmaid-sisters-12544727
Hi Violet.
I guess my basic point is that I hope there is visible diversity. I used the word “non-white” to convey that. We can pick at it, sure. But the bottom line is that I think it’s a bit of a shame if it’s a sea of white…
As for the “box” question…I, too, am biracial. And when I was a kid I would crow about the box stuff. Now that I am an adult who has had to make my way through this world, I understand the importance of representation. And no matter what we do, other people are going to put us in a box. Removing all “boxes” is a lovely, quixotic notion…but in the real world it isn’t yet anywhere near reality.
@equalitygadfly – I appreciate your point of view and taking the time to explain your feelings to me. I think the “sea of white” given the social environment Meghan is stepping into is somewhat inevitable: people invite the existing social circle. However, it seems to me that Meghan and Harry have taken as much pains as possible to lessen that, with the young cellist, the gospel choir, and the black American Anglican bishop who will give the address. So I think there will be visible diversity, but there’s no question that the BRF and its social environs are mostly white. But then, so has Meghan’s circle been for the most part, and that may be due to where her career took her.
I’m not suggesting that people should pretend a diverse heritage is meaningless, but there’s a danger to becoming imprisoned in too much meaning, don’t you think? I’m sure the fine line there is not easy to walk. The two little girls in question are adorable and I suppose I felt a twinge of, why should they be appreciated there because of how they look?
But you did explain yourself very civilly, which I appreciate, and I do understand that the world isn’t nearly where most of us would like it to be.
Just for the record, the bishop is Episcopalian. This is an interesting article on the division between Anglican and Episcopal churches over canonical language that defines marriage. https://www.episcopalnewsservice.org/2016/01/14/majority-of-primates-call-for-temporary-episcopal-church-sanctions/
I explained myself civilly? Interesting.
“but there’s a danger to becoming imprisoned in too much meaning, don’t you think?”
No, I don’t think. Because we live in a society with very deep-rooted biases. So, pretending like we don’t, and not doing the uncomfortable work to correct it (like minding representation), everything will continue as is — and “as is” only works well for white people. Trying to strip meaning is a form of brushing the issue under the proverbial carpet, and only serves to maintain institutional racism.
Your use of the word “civilly” in this discussion is a giant red flag. I strongly suggest you digest this infographic: https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/
Also, as for the “two little girls” — never once did a I disparage them. Or say they shouldn’t be there. I think it’s great. But your tactic here is another problematic one. You’re trying to move the goal posts.
@equalitygadfly – in re the “civilly” – I haven’t been on this blog very long but long enough to see that people get really heated and angry and are really quick to take offense. Not everyone gives the poster they are responding to the benefit of the doubt. That was why I thanked you for responding to a delicate issue with civility. I can’t imagine what else you thought I meant by your use of the word “interesting”.
Well, if you “can’t imagine”, then I suggest you start reading up more on issues of implicit bias and institutionalized prejudice. Impact matters more than intention.
https://everydayfeminism.com/2015/12/tone-policing-and-privilege/
@equalitygadfly – again in re the “civilly” – I haven’t been on this blog long but long enough to see that people get really heated and angry and are quick to assume offense, especially where Meghan is concerned. Not everyone gives the poster they are responding to the benefit of the doubt. That was why I thanked you for responding to a delicate issue with civility. I can’t imagine what else you thought I meant but your qualifying it as a “giant red flag” is a case in point. I had my head taken off once for trying to guess at the royal family’s attitude toward Meghan in private, and then someone assumed those were my attitudes, and I found myself accused of having something against divorced people. Why would appreciating courtesy on a blog where, especially where Meghan is concerned, things can get so heated so quickly, be some sort of “giant red flag”?
I never suggested Meghan should pretend to be something she isn’t: I suggested that she may have gone with the portion of her identity she felt closest to in reality because it was what she saw in the mirror – how is that pretense? Isn’t how she looks a reality?
I also stated that I have never seen her pretend to be anything but biracial. I never suggested stripping all meaning from a diverse identity: I suggested that finding the line between embracing a diverse heritage being one part of identity, and being boxed in by that identity, was difficult. Perhaps the term “boxed in” wasn’t well chosen. This is what my post said:
“I’m not suggesting that people should pretend a diverse heritage is meaningless, but there’s a danger to becoming imprisoned in too much meaning, don’t you think? I’m sure the fine line there is not easy to walk.”
How do those statement translate into moving the goal pasts and suggesting stripping meaning altogether? I said “too much”, not “altogether”.
I haven’t moved any goal posts: I’m relating to you how Meghan seems to me and seems to have handled her life through how she perceives herself. As this has been admittedly from a great distance through the lens of the media, I’m perfectly willing to admit – I could be wrong.
One of my favorite movies of recent years was “A Price Above Rubies”, a film about a woman born into and entrenched in a deeply Orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn (spoiler alert for anyone who hasn’t seen it – and I recommend it it is a wonderful film with terrific performances) and who comes to grief because within herself she knows she just doesn’t belong there. She eventually frees herself but at a terrible cost. It’s a good film about how identity can be both a refuge and a prison.
I am sorry you were offended.
First of all, I wasn’t offended. Why would you assume that? Again, a red flag that you are super behind the times when it comes to understanding racial issues. I was just pointing out why your original statement was outdated and problematic from an intersectional viewpoint.
As for the rest of your missive….it’s a bunch of goal post moving, and it would be a supreme waste of time for me to respond to each point. For example, when did I ever accuse you of saying Meghan should pretend to be something she isn’t? That’s goal post moving. As was your original goal post move regarding the two children.
All I can do is suggest you catch up on this major societal issue, because (based on this exchange) you seem to be a hindrance not a help. Here’s some links to get you started:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/good-men-project/why-its-so-hard-to-talk-to-white-people-about-racism_b_7183710.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2018/04/19/604070231/a-lesson-in-how-to-overcome-implicit-bias
https://www.theroot.com/how-not-to-derail-the-dialogue-on-race-1790897431
Also, you’re not fooling most people with your “Sorry you were offended.” That is not a genuine expression of regret. That is passive aggressive phoniness. It’s also another form of moving the goal post.
@equalitygadfly: Like most people, I respond badly to condescension.
That’s right. You have no problem dishing it, but taking it!? That’s out of the question.
Night.
@equalitygadfly: “Also, you’re not fooling most people with your “Sorry you were offended.” That is not a genuine expression of regret. That is passive aggressive phoniness. It’s also another form of moving the goal post.”
Good lord, this is gossip site.
Again, moving that goal post. It’s a gossip site when I say something with cultural impact, but when you do, a-ok? Pfft.
And just so you know, we do get into non-gossip conversations in the threads here. You may want to go back and do a little research.
And for the record, I said the “sorry” thing after you posted that passive aggressive nonsense. I was in no way condescending before. Just calling out your obvious gaslighting / goal-post moving. But interesting that’s what you immediately clung to, considering that calling people of color “uppity” and “condescending” is a go-to move for people with serious casual racism and implicit bias racism issues.
I wish them well on their wedding day but here is my but, not literally, but . . . in trying to United Nations—full inclusion—Kumbaya this wedding out I hope it won’t turn into clusterf*ck of a hot mess for them and ripe for ridicule by others.
I hope the sun will be shining high and bright in the sky and the flowers will be beautiful and the bride and groom will be surrounded by the people they love best. If those things line up, then the drama will cease being the drama. It’s just a ceremony. Real life happens after that.
This wedding is already a mess
I’m sure the wedding will be beautiful.
@Petty Riperton – well, the leadup was, but that doesn’t mean the wedding will be!
They should have chosen Edward and Sophie’s daughter. She is old enough.
Lady Louise strikes me as a bit shy though and at that age some girls feel awkward. Perhaps she was asked and didn’t want to or perhaps Harry asked Sophie what she thought.
Given how much she was attacked online last time? Keeping her and James out of the spotlight reduces *some* of the attacks on them.
Wait, what last time? William and Kate’s wedding? What did people say about her??? She’s precious and darling! GRRRR.
All kids of terrible things about her eyes, eyesight, teeth, etc.
I can never quite understand the upper-class tradition of only having very tiny children as attendants at weddings. It always seems like a recipe for disaster. Most people have a combination of adult bridesmaids and little ones.
What if Meghan doesn’t know which friend she could trust because of the messiness of her family? Yes, she has her circle of friends but is she able to trust enough to lean on them to share her emotional burden?
I just feel like she’s alone marrying into her opposite. As an actress, she has to be emotional, know emotions, be a feeling person. That is not the family that she is marrying into. That is barely her own fiancee.
I want her to make the great escape that Princess Charlene couldn’t so she can be free. Sometimes love just isn’t enough.
The little ones usually steal the show at weddings even if they’re not perfect. I did raise a grandmotherly eyebrow at a 2 yr old in the party because 2 yr olds are pretty baby-ish still and can balk at the last second. I’m surprised not to see Mia Tindall in that list. I thought both William and Harry were close to Zara and didn’t Mike say a long time ago that they’d met Meghan early on in the dating ?
The little blonde boy in WK’s wedding was so excited and happy to be there. It was adorable to watch. He could barely contain his excitement.
I want to delete my comment. Thank you
She probably didn’t want anyone stealing her thunder à la Pippa Middleton. Meh, her wedding, her choice.
Her father already pulled all focus on him, so it’s probably for the best not to have someone with a shapely derrière in the wedding party
I wonder what all the kiddies will wear. And as curious as I am about Meghan’s dress, I’m DYING to know if Harry will wear military uniform or mourning dress. Despite his recent appoint as Captain General Royal Marines, I’m thinking it will be mourning dress and I’m so damned sad about it lol.
Edward wore mourning dress but he didn’t have a 10 year career in the military. There have been news segments interviewing the uniform makers and embroiderers who are hard at work. Unfortunately they’re not telling which uniform, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t wearing either Blues and Royals or Royal Marines.
My preference is B&R, because he actively served in that one and because (shallow) it is more attractive. If he does wear a uniform? I’m sure people will scream about him having a beard, when MOD has already released statements saying his beard is fine like George V and Prince Michael of Kent.
*morning dress*
Mourning??? Like all black?
I’m surprised Mia Tindall isn’t one of the little bridesmaids since I thought Zara was close to William and Harry.
I could see Kate or Jessica Mulroney wrangling the kids. Someone will do it, unless the older kids will be the ones in charge.
I doubt it will be Kate because she has a newborn, but probably Jessica.
I doubt they’d bring an infant to a wedding. He’ll be home with the invisible other nannies while main Nanny Maria is quietly slipped into the church. Although we might get PR stories about Granny Carole taking care of him.
I know the baby won’t be there but I feel like Kate will make a minimum appearance and not spend the morning wrangling 10 children, most of whom aren’t hers. I think she will make a very brief appearance with minimum involvement outside of whatever is expected of her as a member of the groom’s family.
She had a baby a month ago, has loads of help, and isn’t infirm. But people will keep infantilising her #because.
Seriously?! I get it. She should work more for sure. Her style isn’t trendy and she has lots of help, etc. etc. She JUST had a baby; not even a month ago. No matter who is helping her, her body just went through the wringer. And if she’s nursing, it’s even more pressure and strain. She gets a pass. Even if she takes the entire summer off, she gets a pass. Maternity leave is crucial. Even if you have night nurses, day nurses, live-in-moms, someone just to bring you ice chips, etc. They don’t prevent your organs from shifting back into place, heal stitches/tears/diastasis or give you the energy to nurse on demand. She doesn’t need to be infantalized – she’s a new mom. She should be allowed to determine her role and responsibility during her leave.
Now, should she hit the ground hard and fast once her leave is over……….ABSOLUTELY.
Did you read what Amelie wrote? All she put forward was the idea that Kate, who is already attending the wedding, might be able to Mom Eye or wrangle her two kids into behaving during the wedding.
Is even that supposed to be too much for her now?
Isn’t Zara close to her own due date right now? She may not have wanted to commit Mia to a role in the wedding because of that.
I think this might have played a factor. We don’t know when she’s due. Given her previous miscarriage at 3-4 months, they might have waited extra long before announcing this time.
It will be adorable.
It will be. Sophie and Edward’s were cute with their mini Garter robes. I doubt they’ll copy that but it was adorable.
Thats too many children. And 1 adult William. I may watch just to see the chaos of the children. This wedding is starting to look like a comedy of errors.
At Sophie and Edward’s wedding, the wedding dress designer and one of the parents wrangled the kids. I think the dress designer made their outfits too, including the mini Garter robes.
They should have had Lady Louise be a head bridesmaid aka child wrangler.
Lady Louise was attacked all over the reports of the previous wedding, nasty comments about her looks, her eye sight, her teeth. If she does end up helping in an unofficial way at some point? At least if she’s not wearing a matching outfit, a portion of the negative comments about her would be lessened.
That makes me sad…
When you say she was attacked, do you mean by the media??!! If so, how disgusting that this is what journalism has evolved into. I know the DM is a rag and often sets out to stir up controversy but even they haven’t stooped that low. Can’t imagine being her parents and reading such venom.
I had 6 sisters and 2 besties in my wedding and I still had one maid of honor! People put way to much emphasis on the title and what it means. I obviously love them all if I asked them to be in my wedding but logistically it made sense that one was going to be the one to lead the group and coordinate. I also knew my other sisters would have opportunities to be a maid of honor in the future! Please with the diplomacy because all it does it makes it seem like your girlfriends aren’t mature enough to accept that only 1 of them can be maid of honor… it’s the brides day, get over yourself ladies!!
But from what I think you are saying JA you had your 6 sisters and 2 best friends in your wedding with 1 serving at the maid/matron of honor. That wasn’t the choice Meghan would have had to make if her wedding was to be in the British style. She’d have had to choose only 1 to be in the wedding, period. So it wasn’t whether her friends could deal with being in the wedding but not having the top “honor” billing, it was whether she was comfortable choosing only one to be in the wedding at all. Meghan’s decision makes perfect sense to me.
I agree 2 yr olds are a bit young to be in weddings. Princess Charlotte was only a few weeks past her second birthday when she was in Pippa’s wedding. But she did fine and IMO would have done fine without Kate hovering over her. (The other child her age didn’t get attention from Kate and she also did fine.)
The bridal party tradition of having several bridesmaids and grooms is very American. A lot of countries don’t do it. None of my French cousins had them and they didn’t even have maids of honor or best men. They had instead “witnesses” who had some kind of role in the ceremony but I truly can’t remember what because it’s been awhile. The most important being the witnesses who witnessed their civil ceremony (you cannot get legally married in France if you only have a religious ceremony it is not recognized. You have to make an appointment at the local City Hall to have a civil ceremony first).
@Amelie
If I recall correctly, the whole concept of a bride having “maids” at her wedding stems from pagan times. The maidens wore identical ( or close to it ) dresses to the bride’s ……the idea being that it would throw off and confuse any “evil” spirits seeking to harm the young woman on her wedding day. It’s also where the concept of the “veil” came in, disguising the bride from the unwanted eyes of…you guessed it….those pesky evil spirits.
I think Lindsay Roth, her best friend since Northwestern, was originally tapped. It’s possible that Lindsay decided she didn’t want the pressure and spotlight and Meghan couldn’t choose between the others. Whomever would have been chosen, would be hounded by the British press for months after the wedding.
My guess is that Mulroney woman ends up as the wrangler. Three of them are hers, and she seems super-thirsty to begin with.
Agreed! Urgh! Mulroney’s. Thought we were rid of them after we put Brian on trial and he cried! Close call here in Ontario as the sister ran to lead the PCs.
Ben Mulroney will be more insufferable than ever after this. (I am sure his kids are cute but he is just so irritating)
Jessica Mulroney is a giant bucket of thirst. Is she twinning MM or is is vice versa..they look very similar…
“bucket of thirst” lol – I have to use that one!!
A 2 year old included in this! Yes, shambles and kitty herding!
Wasn’t Charlotte 2 when she was apart of Aunt Pippa’s wedding???
Yes and only 2 by a few weeks. As an American having members of a formal bridal party still in diapers seems a little odd but H&M are hardly the first to do it! Plus we don’t know when the children’s birthdays are— the 2 yr old in this wedding could be turning 3 in a few weeks for all we know.
So, no kids from Doria’s family? Perhaps there are no small children that side?
Probably not…Will & Kate’s wedding didn’t have any kids from Kate’s side. Apart from Pippa the other attendants were relatives or kids associated with Will…
They are just breaking with tradition all over the place, which is fine, but I feel like she needs to have at least ONE adult female up there. Not to keep up with the kiddies, but I always thought that the best man/MoH were considered ‘witnesses’ to the marriage. How is a child supposed to do that? She does not peg me to be the type with a lot of girl friends.
I am so excited about this wedding! i need to see something happy, I’m so depressed at the state of the world. Aside from Meghan’s a-hole dad, I really hope this is a nice day for Harry and Meghan. When my wife and I were considering a big wedding we didn’t want a big wedding party. We wanted 1 person each. I have 3 sisters plus a sister-in-law and a cousin I’m super close to. There was no way I could choose between any of them so I chose my best friend. My sisters flipped out about it (figured they would) but whatever. I think it makes sense to have just children especially if its so hard to choose. This is going to be adorable. Mostly because I’ll be cracking up watching people try to wrangle them LOL
Not that it really matters but the listing of the ages of the children is a bit deceptive. For instance, the Mulroney boys were born in August 2010 are are close to being 8. Their sister is born in June 2013 and she is very close to 5. So the other kids may be older than they seem.
It’ll be fine. My cousin had the groom’s 3 yo niece as flower girl, 4 yo nephew and the bride’s 5 yo cousin. The boys checked out halfway down the aisle. The flower girl refused to throw the petals. She decided to wait until the ceremony started and placed each petal behind the bride and groom while they exchanged vows. It was adorable and no one freaked out grabbing at her.
OMG Ben Mulroney’s kid is going to part of this bridal party? I can’t wait to see HIS smug face…meaning I don’t want to see it at all, Mr. Gloaty My Dad Was PM Ughghghhhhhhjudsh
I’m not black, but a brown, and most of the people I’m friends with are non-desi. Friendship doesn’t have to be contained within your race, does it? Unless you grow up in homogenous country.
Even if you grow up in certain ethnic communities, you will make friends outside of that community while at school, college & work, social media etc.
So…to identify as black, Meghan has to have more black friends. In whose book is that rule? Meghan is a proud black woman and have a mixture of friends. And yes, Black women are lauding Meghan as a black American princess. She identifies as black. She’s never tried to play on words to deny her black roots.
I’m looking forward to what the kiddies are going to wear. I’m glad she chose not to have bridesmaids. I had visions of Prinyanka trying to upstage her a la Pippa.
well considering Harry & Meghan are getting married at a smaller venue than William & Kate did means their wedding party will be smaller
The Mulroneys are thirsty AF and I highly doubt if Lainey didn’t work with him, she would have ripped him a new one about his privilege.
No doubt the Mulroneys are invited bc Meghan worked in Toronto, and that entertainment show had Ben as a host. JFC he is so grossly cringeworthy, I have no idea nor do I care to know or see his wife and kids, I can’t imagine how giant his head is from landing an invite to this wedding.
She is good friends with Jessica Mulroney…he just happens to be the husband.
Does anyone know if the niece she’s close to and supported her against the family will be attending the wedding? Also, how are they connected to the preacher from Chicago or is that an extension of obama?