Kat Von D just had a spectacular goth ceremony last weekend to celebrate her February marriage to Prayers singer Leafar Seyer. She wore a crimson red dress and had curled horns on her head under her red veil. After Corey covered that wedding, more photos have come out of the ceremony and reception and it looks amazing. They had a vegan red velvet wedding cake in the shape of a castle. They were re-married on a platform under a dome of flowers in the middle of the reception room, which was red-themed, with floating electric candles, a red carpet and elaborate rose centerpieces on each table. Kat performed for the guests on a red piano accompanied by acrobats dressed head to toe in red bodysuits. Kat and Leafar sat on actual thrones during dinner and all the guests wore black. They even had a white-themed waiting room which led to the main reception room. It’s truly a sight.
Kat is pregnant with her first child. For their honeymoon she and Leafar went on a short trip to a chateau in an undisclosed location. While there, she posted a video of their room and a video with Leafar swinging outside in which she wrote that they’re “getting so excited about having our baby drug-free at home with our midwife and doulas.” She must have had some people complaining about that because she last posted the photo of her pregnant belly below along with a screed about how she’s going to raise her child vegan and not vaccinate him. (We know she’s having a boy and that she’s naming him Leafar after his dad.)
I knew the minute we announced our pregnancy that we would be bombarded with unsolicited advice.
Some good and some questionable – unsolicited none the less.
I also was prepared for the backlash and criticism we would get if we decided to be open about our personal approach to our pregnancy. My own Father flipped out on me when I told him we decided to ditch our doctor and go with a midwife instead.
If you don’t know what it’s like have people around you think you are ridiculous, try being openly vegan.
And, if you don’t know what it’s like to have the entire world openly criticize, judge, throw uninformed opinions, and curse you – try being an openly pregnant vegan on Instagram, having a natural, drug-free home birth in water with a midwife and doula, who has the intention of raising a vegan child, without vaccinations.
My point being: I already know what it’s like to make life choices that are not the same as the majority. So your negative comments are not going influence my choices – actual research and educating myself will – which i am diligently doing.
This is my body. This is our child. And this is our pregnancy journey.
Feel free to follow me on here if you like what I’m about – whether it’s tattooing, lipstick, Animal Rights, sobriety, feminism, ridiculous gothiness, black flower gardening, cats, or my adorable husband.
But if you don’t dig a certain something about what I post, i kindly ask that you press the unfollow button and move the f-k on.
So before anyone of you feel inspired to tell me how to do this, I would appreciate you keeping your unsolicited criticism to yourself.
More importantly, for those who have amazing positive energy to send my way, I will gladly and graciously receive it with love! X
Actual “research and educating myself will [sic]” This is a shame for a lot of reasons. We really do not need more celebrity anti-vaxxers to spread the mistaken belief that it’s somehow a valid, informed choice. It is not and has widespread consequences. Incidentally, a study on changing anti-vaxxer’s minds found that showing them photos of preventable diseases was the most effective. So focusing on the safety of vaccines doesn’t change people’s minds as much as showing them the potential outcomes if they don’t vaccinate. It’s also a shame because I love Kat’s eyeliner and don’t want to switch. It doesn’t even come off in the pool! (Don’t come at me for that mild joke pls. I am questioning whether to keep buying her beauty products.)
As for Kat’s wish to have her baby drug free in a water bath at home, that’s cool, I did something similar and had my baby at a birth center. There’s nothing wrong with that. I would also say that as long as she’s careful about nutrition it’s also her prerogative to raise her baby vegan. It’s not one I agree with, but those are decisions that affect her family and baby, not the entire nearby populace.
photos credit: Getty and Instagram/Kat Von D
I’m all for raising vegan babies (being raised vegan myself) but not onboard the anti-vacc-train. I hope she reconsiders that as her child grows up.
It’d help if she home-schooled the child, so other kids/parents don’t have to face the possible effects of her personal choice.
+1000
Yes. Keep your child from other children. Keep the danger to others at a minimum.
How does that work in other school districts? Because in ours they have to be immunized or they can’t attend. A year ago—when my younger one was about to start senior year—I thought I was done, but, nope—she needed a meningitis booster. Couldn’t register without it.
@Minx- parents can now have their kids in school districts w/o the shots. California passed a law a few years ago (I believe it was on religious grounds) and there is always private school (where I work at).
M.A.F.—I’m in Illinois and I just looked it up, there is indeed a new “religious exemption” form. Ugh.
I think that the grounds for anti-vaccines under religious reasons is pure crap. There is nothing religious about vaccinations, it is purely scientific. If someone chooses not to vaccinate their child, that child should be kept away from children that have been vaccinated. There has been a surgance of whooping cough, measles, chicken pox and mumps. I grew up in a time when everyone was vaccinated, my children were vaccinated, and we are all healthy. It’s not big pharma that’s behind this the vaccination movement, it’s science. Furthermore, if a parent chooses not to vaccinate, any child that should be harmed by their children, they are liable.
If your kids are vaccinated then you shouldn’t worry about unvaxxed kids then.
I don’t think that’s really true @Adrien. No vaccination is 100% effective for 100% of the people who get it. Plus, the more a virus successfully circulates in a population (as in when there are more cases because of lack of vaccination) the more chance it can change. If it does mutate, then even previously vaccinated people are at greater risk. And of course, there are people who can’t be vaccinated. I’m on the fence about exceptions for religion though. We allow other medical decisions to take into account sincerely held religious beliefs. To me that is a different matter from a decision made for “fashion” reasons or a decision made because a few Hollywood stars speak out against vaccination.
We take religious decisions into consideration for medical treatment when they effect an *individual* who has the ability to consent to the repercussions. Vaccination affects more than just one child but a society at large. We can and do intervene when religious choice is felt to violate the safety of the public or the non-consenting – i.e. cases when parents who object to medical care for their sick child can have their decisions overridden if the staff feels their actions are putting the kid’s life in danger.
Unvaccinated kids are a danger for a variety of reasons Lizabeth mentioned, but really, focusing on just the impact of one’s own child is the entire problem. It’s an incredibly myopic approach directed at an issue with very broad implications. Even vaccinated children can serve as vectors. They may not get sick, but they can pass the disease to other non-vaccinated and immunodeficient individuals who may not be able to mount proper immune responses without serious medical intervention.
Stupid question. Is human breast milk vegan? Obviously it technically isn’t but since mothers are feeding their babies willingly, it may be acceptable, no?
I assume she’ll be eating vegan food and then breastfeeding. I haven’t heard of any issues with that. I HAVE heard of babies who are not breastfed getting malnourished when their parents try to make up their own vegan formulas.
Breast feeding your child is totally ok whilst being vegan. Our bodies were designed to feed our babies with our breast milk.
It is considered vegan because you can give consent to the use of your ‘products’, whereas animals cannot consent to the use of their milk, meat, etc. (note: I am not vegan but I have a good friend who was raising vegan babies and had the same question!)
Don’t get me started on anti-vax.
Being a former vegan lactator, I can confirm that it is acceptable to be both vegan and a lactator! Being vegan means you don’t consume animal products (mostly) because of ethical reasons, so a lactating mother who is giving consent is not an ethical issue.
Thanks for answers @everybody. I appreciate it. I have lowered my meat consumption over the past year and hopefully will go full vegetarian soon. It has been hard though. I loove chicken.
@Una Gardein makes some decent chicken substitutes. They are in the frozen food section in most markets. My children love their tenders and patties. There are some other companies too but they are online and shipping frozen food can get expensive. However, Vegan Essentials has some good things to try and the Herbivores Butcher makes some seriously delicious things. Abbot’s Butcher has “turkey” burgers I eat regularly. Nate’s frozen meatballs are great for subs and pizzas. Match is another good company.
It takes time to change over but it is worth it and easy once you find some go to substitutes.
Well, if she’s “diligently researching” and “educating herself” then it’s going to take her about twenty seconds to see that the leading man behind the anti-vax movement – Andrew Wakefield – was struck off the medical register for malpractice and has had all his supposed evidence completely disproven.
Literally the sixth word of his Wikipedia entry is “discredited”…
Did she even speak with a doctor? How can u educate yourself about vaccines without that. Google I suppose. She’s an idiot
She probably googled ‘vaccines+ dangerous’ and read all the bull that came up. Educating herself my ass.
Elkie: All the anti-vaxxers I know say/believe that the medical world and big pharma colluded to blacken Wakefield’s reputation and debunk his “research”, so some will never be convinced of how fraudulent his claims were/are. Sigh.
Just this week we had a case in court of two vegan parents charged with neglecting their very malnourished child. This is not to suggest in any way that vegans, by definition, are neglectful parents, because we all know of cases of non-vegans wilfully neglecting their children.
I hope Kat’s birthing arrangements go to plan. My son and his partner planned the same things. My DIL had a healthy, normal, easy pregnancy, but, literally, at the last minute, she had to be rushed to hospital with serious complications and a baby in severe distress. You just never know, do you? My adorable grandson just turned one, is such a happy little Vegemite (I’ve heard him grizzle a bit when he’s very tired, but I think I’ve only ever heard him cry once), is as healthy as a horse, walking, and eats so well. He will not eat takeaway food of any description and will only drink water, and only from a cup. Oh, and he’s as stubborn as can be. #proudnonna 😊 However, he has not been vaccinated, as the parents were strong anti-vaxxers. The debates we’ve had… Recently, my son was talking about getting baby vaccinated, and I’m still holding my breath, as no more has been said on the matter. They will need to make up their minds, as non-vaccination has consequences here. Children must be vaccinated before they can attend school, pre-school and many day-care centres, and can be denied family payments and other government benefits. There are exemptions, but they’re pretty tightly controlled. Government calling the shots in this issue, is being debated.
Her husband has posted two google search screenshots to his ig stories: one of “Vaxxed”, directed by Wakefield, and another of “Trace amounts”. So two documentaries made by anti-vaxxers, instead of reading Bid Bag CDC’s scientifically-backed page on the subject, which would count as diligent research in my book https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html I hope she clarifies whether she’s against vaccination because of the BS autism link (in which case she’s stupid), or because vaccines are not vegan (in which case she’s stupid *and* self-centered. At some point your child’s health takes precedence over your own beliefs.
@ AnnaKist: Where do you live? That sounds like my kind of government 🙂
I see it as almost child neglect. Surely the child wouldn’t choose to be sick if they didn’t have to. YouTube whooping cough videos of infants or rubella.
I never get anti vax parents. When my kid is sick I would give anything to make her better, it’s painful to hear them coughing and the fevers. Why not do anything to prevent them from getting sick? I agree with the person who said its child neglect.
I agree 100%. My son’s first year in daycare was horrible just with constant colds, coughs, and fevers. He’s clearly miserable when running a fever. I can’t imagine what it would be like if we were throwing in the occasional case of measles or whooping cough.
I suppose if you homeschool and can keep your kid isolated you’re somewhat “protected” from the consequences of your decision, but your kid isn’t going to be able to live in a bubble forever.
Yall should check out the insane people of Facebook forum on Reddit. It’s full of antivac screen grabs (identity crossed out) on fb. It’s truly insane what they say and post.
It is neglect, full on, not almost. As is foisting vegan choice on a baby.
If foisting vegan choice on a baby is neglect, how is forcing child onto a meat diet not neglect? What makes one good and one bad if they both produce healthy children?
I 100% think it should be illegal for parents to willingly not vaccinate their children (aside from those with poor immune systems like SCIDS/cancer). Parents are considered neglectful and charged if they don’t provide adequate food and shelter and basic needs. Why are vaccines different? Same goes for those kookoo religious groups that don’t fix surgically treatment birth defects (VSD, ASD). If I got Haemophilus meningitis and was deaf because my parents decided not to vaccinate me, I would 110% sue.
Lady D – I imagine when the criticize baby vegan diets, they mean infants who can’t digest solids yet. Babies have very specific dietary needs that requires a lot of protein and fats. If you cannot breastfeed, you must use FDA-approved formulas. Period, end of story. Science has yet to fully identify all of the components of breast milk, so even formula isn’t as good as breastfeeding. Homemade formulas are not recommended and can be downright dangerous to the baby if not made to exact standards.
I’m all for raising a child vegan (and gluten free, for fork’s sake!) because I have a chronic disease, the symptoms of which get like 60% less on a gluten free vegan diet, so I consider it a pretty good thing to do to your body, buuut the vaccination thing is tricky. I get the scepticism, I really do. It’s creepy what they put in there. Very hard decision to make. Maybe the hardest one can be confronted with as a parent of a healthy child, and not one I would enjoy making.
@Sojaschnitzel: Vaccinating is not a hard decision to make. Do you know why we no longer have polio epidemics in the United States? Because of vaccines. If you want your kid to be a vector to immunocompromised people, or to run the risk of serious, preventable illnesses, go ahead and don’t vaccinate. It’s a completely irresponsible decision.
Please go read up on the history of polio, a debilitating disease for those who survived it or diphtheria:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphtheria
The poster on that page says “diphtheria is deadly” because it killed children. By not vaccinating other children are put at risk.
There’s nothing tricky about vaccination, just like there’s nothing tricky about wearing a seatbelt or a helmet if you’re on a motorcycle. What we (since I’ve worked for one of the biggest vaccine maker, I’m part of the “they”) put in vaccines is safe. So much that we don’t hesitate to give it to our kids and to ourselves (I work with blood-born pathogens and love to travel: I still get shots frequently). Measles can turn you blind, meningitis can make you deaf, mumps can turn a boy sterile: it’s not a tough choice
A friend got meningitis while pregnant, from another friend’s unvaccinated child. The dr.’s think the fever is what damaged her baby. When he started teething, all of his teeth tried to come out at once. The fever had fused his teeth together in utero. The doctors couldn’t be 100% positive the long-term fever caused it, but thought it more than likely.
It’s only “creepy” if you cannot or will not understand the science behind it.
Agreed 100%. I’m vegan, my kid is vegan, our friends and their kids are vegan, and every single one of us vaxxes, on schedule, all kinds.
Vaxxing is my responsibility as a vegan. The entire point of ethical veganism is mitigating harm to fellow creatures and that is EXACTLY the point of vaxxing. I am not going to cry about some eggs when there are immune-compromised children who could die. WTF kind of ethical approach is that.
She’s an idiot.
👏👏👏👏
+ Her bridal look is one part vampire, one part lobster.
I know that a lot of people refuse vaccination, due to vaccines being of animal origin (whole blood cells, blood fractions etc.). What kind of vaccines did your family use?
There are articles all over the internet about veganism and the argument FOR vaccines.
An example: https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/10/why-you-should-vaccinate/
Agree, I like everything about her wedding, and although I don’t know much about either of them I think they could be amazing together because of their shared creative interests. I’m good with drug free birth, midwives, doulas — did all all that myself, and have not eaten meat in 25 years. But I hesitate to raise children vegan before they are old enough to make an informed choice, and I cannot at all agree with the anti-vax stance! The anti vax thing is really disappointing to hear.
All I know is, that as someone who had a blood cancer, with an additional “zinger” to it, even now, after 4 yrs in remission after stem cell replacement therapy, I still have a compromised immune system. Her kids are, literally, a life or death sentence for me if I come into contact with them (and they have “something”). How *&k^%ing selfish do you have to be?? If you don’t want your kid vaccinated, then keep him/her OUT of the general population! It is the herd population that will keep YOUR kid safe, not the other way around!
JFC, it makes me SO mad!!! Vaccines are a way to keep us SAFE! We are NOT DYING of COMMON ILLNESSES DUE TO VACCINATIONS!! You don’t want to, fine…KEEP YOUR INCUBATOR KIDS AT HOME WITH THE OTHERS! STAY OUT OF THE GENERAL POPULATION! IT IS LITERALLY LIFE AND DEATH FOR SOME OF US!
Well said. I also had a compromised immune system for years, and if it’s not selfish pricks bringing their flu to work (and yes, they have sick leave) – it’s these nutters.
I love all those idiots who say “but if YOU’RE vaccinated, why does my unvaxxed kid bother you”. It just goes to show they have ZERO idea how herd immunity and compromised immunity works.
kat von d announces she is a dangerous idiot.
i fixed your headline.
Honestly
Seriously.
And I love how she doesn’t want to inject her baby with life-saving vaccinations, but she’s fine with injecting her face with all of that crap.
Wow, good point. Anti-vacc but perfectly fine injecting your face with Botox. OK Kat. Makes sense!
Hah love this!
Thank You! That was my thought too. Inject your face with God knows what, she’s probably got a pound of ink injected in her body, but vaccines (*gasp – no way) .
Not that I believe vaccines cause autism but I’d rather have a live autistic child then one dead from a preventable disease.
And, while some fillers may have vegan friendly ingredients, pretty much all of them have been tested on animals and are not cruelty free. So I guess she is willing to compromise her morals for her face, but not the well-being of her child.
Yep. Inject her face and feed her child a ton of supplements. But that’s ok, I guess.
Thank you!
YES!!!
Right?
KVD products, begone.
What does being vegan have to do with being stupid.
Dumbass.
OMG another anti-vaxxer….seriously. Feed your baby whatever you want but don’t cry when they get super ill and the doctor says – “you could have vaccinated your baby and all would be fine today”
If people could only believe in science as much as they believe in everything else.
Hate to break it to you Einstein, but being vegan doesn’t protect you from diseases.
Not only is it incredibly arrogant to potentially visit diseases on your child because somehow you just know better than actual doctors who have debunked the “vaccinations are dangerous” paranoia ten ways from Sunday, it is willfully ignorant and frankly cruel. And you’re not only bring that danger down on them, you’re doing it to others in society who are unable to vaccinate for various reasons. People who do this are not only stupid, they’re selfish.
Read up on the Spanish Flu epiddemic of 1918 and see how that worked out for those who were young and healthy .
My lovely vegan friend died last summer of breast cancer. She didn’t want any treatment because she didn’t believe in western medicine. And like Kat, she didn’t want to hear anything else, only wanted her friends to support her decisions.
I miss her so much.
I’m so sorry about your friend. I wish she was still here for you. I respect the decision she made for herself. In those instances there is a difficult choice between wanting what is best vs allowing adults to make the decisions about their life and their bodies. I’ve known more than one person who has had to go through the treatment for breast cancer and it wasn’t pretty. I can’t hate on someone not wanting to put themselves through that, even if it potentially might save their life.
I hope you’re doing okay. <3
I’m really sorry Birdix. That must’ve been very hard for you.
I’m so sorry Birdix.
Suicide by willful ignorance is a difficult thing to swallow, but we have the right as adults to make decisions for ourselves, including deciding to die. Ms. Von D, however, is very irresponsibly condemning her child and possibly others, to potentially life-threatening illnesses and that is very wrong.
I also have a vegan friend you got breast cancer. Her mother had the BRCA 1 gene and so did she and her sister. Both got the cancer. So it didn’t matter how healthy she was, she still got it. She had an 88% chance of getting breast cancer above the average population.
You can 100% raise a healthy and thriving vegan or vegetarian child!
the anti-vacc stance is bullshit tho.
Yes you can. Agreed. My household is vegan and my children are robust healthy vegans though I don’t pressure them if they want to taste some cheese in someone’s else’s house. The only carnivores in my home are my cats and dogs. Feeding them a vegan diet is stupid and rather cruel and it misses the entire point of loving animals.
Antivaxxing is quackery rooted in the belief that anything natural is the best. While I do believe in natural medicine and am all in where that is concerned, it doesn’t mean I don’t know when allopathic medicine is superior. Vaccines are a gift that has saved lives. There is no argument about that fact that is even worth listening to.
I follow a less strident schedule and I don’t do every single vaccine from birth in accordance with our pediatrician but we have a responsibility to protect other people’s children too.
The only carnivores in our home are also our cats!
When I hear the virulent anti-vax crowd speak (or write) it hurts my head.
Please go F yourself Kat. My daughter was a premie and had to have a delayed vaccination schedule because of various health complications. She almost died at 3 months old from being infected by an un-vaccinated child, we went through months of hospital stays and even more health problems on top of the ones she already had.
Selfish parents like Kat will never know the horror of having to visit your baby while wearing a hazmat suit and not being able to come into contact with her at all, all because of an ass*ole like her playing Russian roulette with the health of the population.
This makes me so angry, another family in the isolation ward lost their 9 week old son to whopping cough, he was also infected by an un-vaccinated child, there should be criminal charges against people who don’t vaccinate their kids.
My thoughts exactly. GFY.
Seriously!!!! It SHOULD be against the law to NOT vaccinate your kid, for the good of the general public!! It makes me insane that these selfish individuals don’t vaccinate kids to let them suffer these diseases because of their misguided “beliefs”. BULLSH!T
I’m waiting for the day a situation like yours winds up in the courts, to be honest. If somebody knowingly allowed their unvaccinated child around my own without informing me and got them sick, you can bet your ass I’d be hauling them to court to pay for those medical bills. One of my friends has a son who had a heart transplant in his first year of life. She’s already withdrawn any consideration of sending him to public school at this point.
But if your child is vaccinated… doesn’t that protect your child? So say someone doesn’t get the MMR vaccine but your child did… how would your kid become sick?
I’m asking bc I truly do not understand. Wouldn’t all of the non-vax’d kids just make each other sick?
Why is she marking off public schools? Most public schools require ALL students to be vaccinated prior to starting school whereas some private schools make up their own rules, hence stupid ppl with money bringing in unvaccinated children.
What she is saying I believe is that the delayed schedule with a preemie baby with a weak immune system is the cause. The baby had a fragile system already and couldn’t fight off things easily.
@Miss Kittles: Not everyone responds well to some vaccines and will be able to mount a proper immune memory because every immune systems are different. You don’t really know that until you do a blood test to check your antibodies against a specific disease (and most ppl don’t do that, I have to check my vaccines’ efficiency because of my job, but I’m an unusual case). So even if you’re vaccinated, you might still become ill if you encounter a disease. The good news is that in most cases you’ll be less sick than you would have if not vaccinated.
But babies, cancer/AIDS patients, old folks, ppl that need to take immune-suppressors because they had organ transplants won’t have a good immunity even if they’ve been vaccinated in the past and being exposed to a preventable disease might be fatal to them. By getting vaccinated, you help protect those who are weaker
In the remote case that a particular vaccine does not work well on a child, then s/he is in danger of catching up a disease. In my country we had a small epidemic of chicken pox who got already vaccinated people. It was mainly milder cases, as they were already vaccinated, but still… God forbid we have a comeback of polio.
It is worse in cases where people have a compromised immune system, and they can be older people, too.
The child with transplant that she mentions will probably have to be on guard for a very long time. The medicine supresses the protecting system in the body so it doesn’t reject the transplant. An unvaccinated child who gets whooping cough or some other is dangerous to be around.
@msb some parents get their children in anyway because they claim “religious” objection or something like that.
edit: what arpegie said.
No because we rely on herd immunity, not on the fact the we all just protect ourselves. I’m no doctor, someone else could explain this better. Essentially, babies and people with health issues for example often can’t be vaccinated. Vaccinations also aren’t 100% effective for everyone so we rely on those around uns not to get sick and spread it. It’s like road safety. You can be the perfect driver but if some crazy person goes 100 trough a residential area, that doesn’t matter.
Miss Kittles, it’s not the vaccinated kids that are at risk.
it kids who are too young or people (of all ages) unable to be vaccinated that are at risk.
Pre-med here with a biology and pharmacy background. I’ll explain a few things for those of you who aren’t as aware of how vaccines work:
Vaccination requires your immune system to be in good condition because the majority of them function by inducing T-cell antibody response through introduction of a deactivated virus or bacteria. As we age, those antibody titer levels can and often do drop, which leaves elderly populations at risk for infection. Infants are also very susceptible for the obvious reason that their immune system is just beginning to develop, and the intensity of the vaccination schedule requires them to be spread out over several years.
Then you have the immunosuppressed, who are physically incapable of launching a proper immune response to infection. HIV is the most common and notorious villain, but that’s better controlled these days through early testing and medication. However, there are also dozens of other diseases and even medications that can contribute to this state. People with autoimmune diseases often show less powerful immune response, and many of the medications for the more severe types like lupus, Crohn’s, etc. work by actively suppressing the immune system. Patients with cancer or chronic diseases are also susceptible to illness, particularly if they’re undergoing active treatment. People who had organ transplants require immunosuppressive drugs to keep their bodies from rejecting the donor organ. A minor percentage of children have allergic reactions to vaccines, which makes them unable to continue receiving vaccination.
All of those groups are susceptible to illnesses carried by the unvaccinated. But more importantly, even people who ARE vaccinated can be carriers that serve as vectors for transmission – they just don’t suffer the ill effects because their body forms a proper immune response in a timely manner. That is dangerous for two reasons: 1.) they can spread the disease through contact with others, and 2.) having a reservoir of infected presents the risk of a virus or bacteria strain the potential to mutate. Basically, there’s a lot of vulnerable people out there who actively rely on the healthy ones among us to protect them from these diseases. Falling below that threshold puts those populations at risk.
Msb – My region only recently enacted vaccine regulations for all schools, public or private. You’re right, however, that most of them require it at this point. For her kids, they’re more likely to be homeschooled. Her son is immunosuppressed because of the transplant, but she is also immunosuppressed due to an autoimmune disorder. For their family, their doctor recommended limiting the potential infection pool they’re exposed to until the children are older and stronger.
Arpeggie, as someone (who as an adult) has had to have chemo, and then a stem-cell transplant, it is literally as if you are starting over. I am having to be revaccinated just as if I was a newborn. AND some vaccines, I cannot get (as they are “live” vaccines). I am terrified of catching something in-between the times I have between boosters. (I am now in the 6-9 mo. old “range”). So I still have a ways to go, and as I said, some I can never have.
So in addition to dealing with the fear of the blood cancer returning, I am also in fear of catching something from these nimrods who think that their little snowflake is so special that they won’t spread anything to the rest of us!
I’m all for criminal punishment against parents who don’t vaccinate and then end up killing someone else, but how feasible and legally possible do you think that would be?
I wonder if you could compare it to people knowingly spreading HIV. Legally speaking.
We actually discussed this in my immunology classes. My professor stated pretty bluntly that she felt the HIV cases actually set legal precedent for it to be potentially considered a crime in situations where there was a clear lack of communication and concern for the infected recipient. As far as she believes, it’s a matter of time before one of the cases goes to court over medical bills.
The threshold for herd immunity is very high. Something like 98-99% of the population has to be vaccinated for it to work. We are well below those numbers at this point.
I had a case where I needed to find a specialist for polio and let me tell you it is very hard to find doctors who are trained in dealing with polio. People are going to be effed hard if this disease makes a comeback.
According to law & order:SVU it’s possible ha ha
There was an older episode (I remember Hilary Duff was in it) where a woman whose unvaccinated child gave measles to Hilary Duff’s baby and the baby died so they went after the mom who didn’t vaccinate.
It’s truly an SVU treasure. But it should work that way IRL. I know they do often manage to trace the source of various outbreaks (I’m thinking of the measles outbreak that happened at Disney world/land whichever a few years ago.
I guess we are a little off topic of vaccines but someone started on about the legalities of knowingly spreading HIV. In some countries there are laws to deal with spread of sti. For example, in Canada, if an infected person fails to inform sex partners of his/her HIV , the person is reckless in spreading infection and it falls under ‘criminal assault’ under Canada’s Criminal Code. There have been recent publicized cases.
If someone were to intentionally or purposefully infect others with a disease that could have been prevented through vaccination, I wonder how that would be treated, in the justice system. Anyone?
Hear hear, Lynnie! It IS criminal against the general population!
@LELA How horrible what you and your child had to go through, and that poor other family you mention. We need a public information campaign about the consequences of not using vaccines. Maybe like the campaign against drunk drivers that showed the phtotos of people killed. Sorry if I’m being morbid
i’m sitting here nodding and clapping. i’m sorry you had to go through that with a new baby.
there was a chicken pox outbreak in the infant room of our daycare this spring because one of the little babies came into contact with an unvaccinated toddler with chicken pox who was still brought to a family party even though they were sick. so – like 8 little babies got chicken pox before they could be vaccinated. i recently found out the parents of that child who got it and spread it were so upset and embarassed they left the daycare even though it wasn’t their fault.
if people are stupid enough not to vaccinate – they should be decent enough to never, ever let their child in public.
I’m surprised some states (or even private schools) haven’t moved to bar unvaccinated kids who lack medical documentation justifying it from attending public schools. It places a rather unfair risk on the shoulders of parents whose kids are immunosuppressed and can’t get vaccinated to have to home or private school their kids.
I’ve been to a few doctor’s offices that flat out refuse to receive children who aren’t vaccinated or even let them on the premises, but that’s obviously on an individual basis.
Veronica S, our pediatrician has a whole separate room for new patients, one for sick patients and one for wellness checks. She will not take anti vaxxers or Christian Scientists and she is an MD and a Naturopath. She believes in many alternative therapies but not vaccinating is not welcome and she won’t even discuss it as an option. It is part of the agreement to be accepted as clients.
The logic is lacking anyway. Old fashioned diseases are on the rise. I do wonder if it coincides with the anti vax fools’ growing numbers.
@Veronica S., When I was a high school teacher in Maryland, I lost a lot of students in the first semester because they were not vaccinated and in my school system they were not allowed to stay unless they were. I think it varies state to state and county to county.
In California, where there have been measles, mumps, and whooping cough outbreaks, many private schools do require vaccination. The problem is they allow religious exemptions so anti-vaxxers just claim religious exemption and don’t vax their kids. Yet one more reason to get religion out of public life.
My state finally enacted legislation a few years back that required immunization for all students – even home schoolers. The problems are the exemptions mentioned above for religious or otherwise non-medical reasons. My feeling is that if your religious beliefs put others at risk, you should be barred from any sort of taxpayer funded facility – and that includes things like campuses, extracurricular venues, and the like.
I can’t imagine how terrifying that was for you and your family! I’m sorry you had to go through that. I agree with everything you said. I’m the least judgey person alive but watch how fast I run when someone I’m just meeting tells me she doesn’t vaccinate her babies!!!!
Also has anyone ever met a male who was outspoken about not vaccinating their babies?? Every person I meet or hear of is female. Just an interesting observation.
I am pregnant with our second and we had new neighbours move in who are anti-vaxxers. She refuses to vaccinate her 2 year old son and was complaining to me how unfair it is that public schools and daycares won’t accept her son without a vaccination record. She proceeded to ask if we could setup a playdate for our kids and I flat out told her what happened to my daughter and I refuse to allow her or our soon to be newborn son in contact with anyone who doesn’t vaccinate. Suffice to say our new neighbours hate us, and according to our other neighbours across the street, think we are rude and inconsiderate people.
@Lela
Good. They will keep their distance. I don’t mean to make light of it but it is better they dislike you.
They are idiots.
@Lela, your neighbors are idiots. If they can’t understand why you wouldn’t want your child to play with their unvaccinated one after all you’ve been through… as we say in the South, “bless their hearts.”
Congratulations on your new baby!
and they’ll be singing a different tune when their kid gets sick. which he VERY likely will.
their poor kid, he didn’t ask for that.
Yes there are anti vax men who are very vocal about it. Maybe women and moms are just more vocal on social media. There seems to be more anti circumcision women on fb than men too.
Ugh, I feel for you. One of our good friends had a preemie baby and we live in an area with a high rate of anti-vaxxers. My poor friend already had a ton of stress with just having a very delicate baby and having to really limit their exposure to other kids, then having the anti-vaxxer angle thrown into the mix, it was like one extra stress that she shouldn’t have had to deal with. She actually had an issue where she had met and become friendly with another SAHM and then decided to invite them over for a playdate, and then during the playdate the other mom casually let drop that they didn’t vaccinate. My friend was livid–the other mom KNEW that my friend’s baby was high risk and that for him to get sick would be a HUGE deal, and she still took her kid into play with him. My friend said the other mom seemed to think that my friend’s baby was a good choice of playmate for her unvaccinated child because he was not in daycare or out mixing with a lot of other babies, so he wouldn’t be exposing HER kid to a lot of germs. It was just jaw-dropping.
Pre-kids, I had a friend who was anti-vaxx and since we’ve both had kids our friendship has pretty much died off because I’m just not willing to expose my kid to her kids. And while I don’t grill prospective new playmates for my kid about whether or not they vaccinate, if I find out they don’t….that’s the end. I’m not willing to risk my son getting sick or even just passing on those kinds of germs to someone else (which can happen too…Typhoid Mary, anyone?).
And yes, a vaccination is not 100% guarantee against getting a disease, there have definitely been cases where immunized children still manage to contract measles, whooping cough, etc. So it’s important to have a high rate of overall population vaccination to protect people who, for whatever reason, don’t “take” the vaccine well (or people who genuinely cannot have vaccines for health reasons).
OMG – I’m so sorry you had to go through this! Every anti-vaxxer should have to attend mandatory awareness classes about stories like this (and all the other obvious medical evidence for vaccines) before making such a selfish choice about not vaccinating their kids.
I empathize with you. I only wish this was posted as a comment on KVD instagram page.
She never seemed particularly bright to me and this confirms it. Also solidifies my decision to never buy anything from her ever.
Also people are so in love with the whole water natural drug free birth thing until complications arise, and then they’re screaming their heads off at my dad (he’s a neonatologist) to go save their child 🙄. On the plus side those types of problems are rare, but I hope she has a solid and FAST plan b in case anything happens.
the only thing her makeup had going for me was that it was cruelty free, but there are so many other, and better options. I’m giving a crazy anti-vaxxer my $$.
I don’t buy jack from her and never liked her. She dated Jessie James AFTER Nazi scandal so I refuse to support her.
Yeah I never understand why her supporters keep brushing that under the rug. Nice new pop btw!
Thanks Lynnie! I am happy to see you around these days.
Imagine the level of investment in your ignorance it takes to think people who support vaccination are the uninformed ones.
Right? Whenever I see/hear/read about anti-vaxxers, I’m reminded of Asimov’s quote: ““There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
They’re prepared to invite horrible diseases to themselves and others just to placate their stunning inferiority complex. I hate them.
Fantastic comment and quote Hogtowner. I wish more people would take this quote to heart. Less false equivalence would be helpful.
great quote there Hogtowner…it applies beyond US bordes for sure, Australia comes to mind *eyeroll*
I,..and I say this with real heartfelt emphasis, HATE to admit I was an anti-vaxxer for years.
Overall I was gaslighted in terms of mental (and other) health issues by my ex’s family, and was convinced these people had mine and my daughter’s best interests at heart…anyhoo, long story short. We separated, I moved elsewhere and ACTUALLY READ UP ON VACCINATIONS, and now my ‘not so little one’ even had her Gardasil shot the other year..and she’s had ALL the other shots too before then, albeit still belatedly, and we both had some HEP ones as we’ve been travelling, one which made me sick as a dog but hey, I’m sure it’s better than Hepatitis!!
Man I am sooo lucky nothing happened to her or anyone I know of because of her. I’m really sorry y’all, believe me, it won’t happen again!!
I get why people fall for it, and I can definitely see where it stems from parents (particularly mothers) who feel pressured to hold responsibility for things that are well out of their control. (“Why is MY child not ‘normal’?”) Cases like Kat von D irritate me because she has plenty of the financial resources available to educate herself if she wanted to, but she chooses to remain dangerous in her ignorance.
I stopped using her eyeliner a while ago because the Epic Ink Liner by NYX is a much better alternative imo.
Hope that helps with rightfully cancelling her, CB.
It does and will likely save me money. Thank you!
Another cruelty free option is the Stila eyeliner pen which I highly recommend. It’s better than KVD, doesn’t budge but easy to remove.
Avoid any company that sells in China without an explanation since they require animal testing. Stila used to sell in China but don’t anymore so it is best to look at current lists.
Does anyone remember the lipstick she named ending in the word “-tard”?
Trash.
I used to watch Kat’s tattoo show a million years ago. She has always been pretentious and thought she was smarter than she actually is, so this doesn’t shock me.
It’s AMAZING to me…she wants folks to keep their unsolicited advice to themselves…you know what ELSE she could have kept to herself…the fact that she is ACTIVELY ensuring that her child’s health and well-being is compromised by her WHOLLY ignorant decision! Our country is paying…on a DAILY with children DYING from catching diseases that could have been prevented because their parents are CRUEL BEYOND BELIEF…and are JUSTIFIED AND CEMENTED in that ignorance…she is…SO CANCELLED!
“It’s AMAZING to me…she wants folks to keep their unsolicited advice to themselves…”
Good point. Also, while not vaccinating her kid(s) is stupid whether she tells us or not………telling us is worse. After all, wasn’t it an idiot celebrity that really spearheaded the anti-vax trend to begin with? SO MANY people heard Jenny McCarthy’sa claims and believed them…and now, YEARS after that was debunked, people still are choosing not to vaccinate their kids. If only smart science and medical pros could have the same platform as a celebrity tattoo artist and lady famous for looking great naked do!! Then we wouldn’t BE in this mess.
I want to throttle people who wax poetic about how they’re going to have their babies with no medical intervention and only the assistance of the holy midwife who can bathe them in a cloud of soothing herbs so they can have a beautiful experience.
When things go right, it’s great. But things can go south REALLY fast, and if you’re not in a place where medical intervention is readily available, the outcomes can be devastating. My oldest had planned on the kind of birth KvD is after, and ended up with a C-section. It was painful to listen to her cry about having been a failure – if you end up with a baby and you’re both alive after, it’s a win.
On a related front, I am so sick of the shaming around “if you don’t give birth exactly this way you’re wrong” this kind of statement implies – and that goes for whether you opt to have the kid in a sheepshead ala Mary & Jesus or an elective C-section.
As for the anti-vax stance, ITA.(My oldest has also decided not to vaccinate my grandbaby, which only bothers me when I think about it.)
An unvaccinated person runs a risk of infecting someone whose immune system is compromised. A family member of mine lives on immunosuppressants. He has to, or his immune system will literally eat away at his lung tissue.
Which makes the yearly disease outbreaks something that are constantly on my mind. A virus which would put a person down a week could kill my family member. My family member relies on other people’s sense of responsibility to themselves and the society they live in.
I will always critique very harshly a person who could vaccinate their child but chooses not to. It is an act of pure selfishness and flat out stupidity. Someone else will suffer eventually for one parent’s stupidity. As will their child. As a kid I had some periods between vaccinations where I wasn’t protected, and being sick with something preventable sucked.
No kidding. My daughter’s uncle, who lives out of state and is being treated for cancer, came to visit and had to wear a mask because of the vaccine situation. To say that I’m frustrated by her choice would be a gross understatement.
Home births with a midwife and doula are great as long as you have an emergency plan. Raising a vegan child is great too, but it won’t protect the child from the diseases that vaccines do. I’m really over the anti-vax gangs”It’s my child, my choice” mantra. They are willfully ignorant and putting their children and the public at risk. Telling people to do their research when she’s clearly not done hers, is a joke.
Raising your infant vegan is not great. Vegetarian, yes. Not vegan.
Yeah, you’re right about that. I was thinking more about a vegan 5 year old, rather than a vegan baby when I wrote that. I have total appreciation for why people are vegan, but she’d have to be incredibly vigilant to make sure her child was getting everything that they need nutritionally. With her clear lack of ability to “research” the safety of vaccinations, I have little faith in her ability to research an infants nutritional needs. It all seems to be more about her than the child.
Vegan infants who drink breastmilk are fine.
I disagree with this statement. Responsible vegan parenting is not that difficult. None of my babies have ever been underweight, malnourished or failed to thrive. They are taller than average and very healthy and all were breastfed.
Idiot.
I cannot stand antivaxxers. Their idiocy is literally killing people, including their own children.
And since I have an older brother on the spectrum, I really resent how they continue to spread the myth that vaccines cause autism and act like it is the most horrible thing that could possibly happen to kids. Autism is a life sentence, but it is not a death sentence. Not getting vaccines can result in multiple deaths.
Yeah, we still don’t know what causes autism do we? There could be many factors. I’m pretty sure they were cases of autism back before there were any vaccinations
It’s looking more and more like a genetic component, and there might be a link between aged sperm and occurrence of spectrum disorders. There might finally be a limit placed on men having babies well into elder-hood. You know how as women age, our chances of having a child with Down’s Syndrome go up? It might be similar for men, that their old shooters can actually have consequences.
Autism is now known to have a genetic component (with schizophrenia) plus it’s more widely diagnosed.
I don’t know if it’s the same for other countries but in the U.K. the diagnostic criteria changed so children were assessed for autism at a different age, which also happened to be months after standard vaccinations. This lead to the theory that there was a link, which has since been disproved.
That’s the part of it I have never, ever understood. They’d rather risk their child catch measles and, you know, DIE rather than risk them possibly being autistic?? Their arguments make zero sense.
This this this. It comes from a very ableist mentality to believe that autism is a worse fate for your child than them dying of perfectly preventable diseases.
I apparently caused some Facebook drama when I told somebody off for their anti-vaccination beliefs, pointing out that they’re effectively stating that autism was a worse fate than potentially dying from a disease. (I live with two delightful children who have autism. They don’t deserve that.) When it became clear that I – a biology graduate heading into medical school with a background in pharmacy – actually knew what the hell I was talking about, they suddenly found that they “didn’t have time to argue with me.” Like, sure you didn’t, once it became clear to everyone reading that you were the idiot.
Thank you. I have a friend in medicine who recently posted an article on facebook(can’t seem to find it, wanted to add a link) about how the anti vaccers stand is quite biased against the disabled, autism especially. As if autism is the worst thing that could possibly happen to a child. Worse than complications from preventable diseases or even possible death. Yes it’s hard and it’s not something any parent would wish for but it is not the end of the world. Autism is a beoad spectrum and autistic people have lot to contribute and as we learn more about it we can help people more and more.
But this is all a moot point as vaccines don’t actually cause autism.
Exactly.
The argument is that death is preferable to the false risk of autism, and that’s horrifying.
As long as she keeps her little bundle of diseases outside the school system, good luck and Godspeed.
/people are idiots
I mean, keeping her kid out of public schools would HELP. But honestly, kids don’t just mix in school. Home-schooled kids need to be socialized too…and so usually, their parents bring them around other kids in other ways…like parks, playgroups etc. So really, I think she should be forced to keep her kid in a bubble for life. Not practical, not likely…but that would be the fairest scenario.
I can’t believe this is even still a thing. The whole vaccine scare came from a source that has since been discredited. Yet this super dangerous practice is still going on.
I am so sorry for those with kids/loved-one that have immune issues who could be seriously endangered by this. It must be pretty terrifying for you to have to share the world with so many selfish idiots!
I can’t believe this is even still a thing. The whole vaccine scare came from a source that has since been discredited. Yet this super dangerous practice is still going on.
…. this has been proved false I’m sorry to say. You can’t trust anybody. Look at the whistle blower I mentioned up thread. He was THE GUY. (I got the names Thompson and Wakefield around the wrong way) I’m suprised William Tompson didn’t get his breaks cut before he blew the whistle. Thompson kept copies of his work. It is not up for dispute. But wait, no doubt there is a whole industry dedicated to sullying his reputation. He will probably be called a drug addict for something even though he had one of the most important jobs around.
i live outside L.A. and when my babies were just born a couple years ago i was told not to got around the beverly hills area because it’s a pocket of unvaccinated kids and they could make my babies very sick. I thought that was oddly funny. the richest kids in the world have to be quarantined because they can start epidemics!
It’s amazing how prevalent the anti-vaxx attitude is among people who are wealthy and/or educated. My take on this is that people with money or education are more prone to thinking they are “above” doctors or medical advice. They also usually have enough $$ that they can afford to chose more alternative “doctors” (who maybe don’t work with insurance plans but still expect to be paid) who are more accepting or even supportive of their anti-vaxx attitude. And they are more likely to have the ability to limit their child’s exposure to other kids (by staying home when they are young, homeschooling as they get older), which is key to limiting/controlling your child’s exposure to diseases. In contrast, someone who is poorer or working class is just going to have to take whatever medical care they can get and if that means they have a doctor who strongly advises vaccination, they vaccinate. They don’t have the luxury of keeping their kids home or homeschooling or taking a lot of time off work if their kids get sick. So they are much more motivated to vaccinate.
I stumbled across the blog of an MIT Phd living in Silicon Valley who posted about how she essentially water-fasts her young children for 30 days at a time to rid them of all sorts of nebulous-sounding ailments. Maybe brainiacs overthink things and lose sight of the forest for the trees?
I did have an odd experience that makes me understand (but not sympathize) with anti-vaxxers a bit. I got my annual flu shot at work, and on the bus ride home, I was so nauseous that I had to get off, and immediately vomit. This is highly atypical for me. I felt fine within a few hours. I went home and googled the vaccine – sure enough, credible sources showed that this brand of the vaccine had been causing this well-documented side effect. Another co-worker also experienced this. However, when I mentioned this to a few people, the reaction was immediately that I was an idiot, and that flu shots don’t make people sick. I am aware of coincidences. I am aware that many people who get sick shortly after getting a flu shot were likely already sick because, it’s flu season, duh. But the reactions to me simply saying it had made me temporarily ill were so enraging, and gaslighting at best. It didn’t stop me from getting my shot the next year, despite it only having 33% efficacy or whatnot, but it did make me realize that just because you think you have SCIENCE on your side, you can’t shout SCIENCE!!!!! at people without running afoul of the very thing you think you are protecting.
To make my anecdote actually useful, maybe it would help convince people to vaccinate if we focus less on how dumb they are for thinking vaccines cause whatever it is they are trying to avoid, and instead focus on the risks associated with not vaccinating. But I’ve given up on the thought of trying to convince anyone that herd immunity is something they should care about. Anti-vaxxers are inherently selfish, period. Not shocking that the Beverly Hills residents fall into that camp, for sure.
Jeanne, who told you that?? I live (and grew up) in BH, and have NEVER heard that.
Kat surely would change her mind if she understood that she will be putting babies, and the rest of us, in danger of a pandemic? Can some docs please write her and invite her to a symposium or something? The American Medical Assn has to do more to counter the false anti-vaccination propaganda out there. And they need to enlist celebrities to help publicize the message. Getting Kat to change her mind on this would be great. Why in the world are people distrusting the very things that protect us? So dangerous.
Amanda Peet is the only celebrity that I recall that has been outspoken about being pro-vaccination. I agree with you. I wish more of them would speak up. Kristin Cavallari is a big anti-vaxer and you wouldn’t believe how many idiots follow her advice.
I think Kristen Bell said publicly that if your kids aren’t vaccinated they can’t play with hers. Jennifer Lopez was the spokeswoman for the Sounds of Pertussis encouraging Tdap for children and their caregivers.
Back when my kids were young the pediatrician ‘s office always had a poster of Jennifer Lopez advocating for vaccines against whooping cough. The poster was in English and Spanish. I’ve had a soft spot for her ever since.
Don’t announce you’re a moron if you don’t want people to call you a moron.
Anti-vax people should have to pay a fine at the very least. Oh sure, avocado on rye will totally prevent rubella. Idiots.
I LOL at this… so true!
It is avocado and quinoa that prevents every disease known to man. Rye only cures the chicken pox.
Lmao!
I know a woman who refused to vaccinate her twins. (Friend of a friend.) As a result the boy became ill and almost died. He is now profoundly (if not totally) deaf. She admits she made a mistake as all of this could have been completely avoided had she used her brain and VACCINATED her kids.
I used to have next door neighbors who had one daughter before they split up. The mom refused to her vaccinated because she wanted her to be “PURE”. The husband was never okay with her choice, and when they separated and he had the daughter to himself for periods of time, he took her to the doctor and got her all her vaccinations she needed without telling the mom.
That reminds me of that story a few years back when that Canadian teenager secretly got herself vaccinated behind her back. The parents were livid and wanted to sue, but the government was just like, “lol please, she’s sixteen and more than capable of making somewhat informed decisions about her health. Her records are sealed, f*ck off.”
This highlights one of the reasons for my absolute disdain for anti-vaxxers. They are taking risks with their children that they haven’t taken themselves. Nearly all adult anti-vaxxers have been vaccinated. Why? Because their parents loved them. While they blame vaccines for every single ill in the world they could instead look at their peers of vaccinated people and notice that most of them don’t have the illnesses they think vaccines cause. Disdain and loathing.
1) Aren’t children in California required to be vaccinated?
2) Are her tattoos done with vegan ink? No shade against people with tattoos, but KvD, let’s be real here.
You can buy you’re way out of that. I know a chiropractor in my small town who has done all the research 🙄. Anyways, they were supposed to move out of state because of the vaccine law. Instead they found a doctor in Sacramento. $500 per kid. He writes up that it’s a medical necessity the children not be vaccinated. Boom the little disease carriers are right back in school.
Yes, I live in California and while it’s becoming harder not to vaccinate, it’s not impossible. Most of the “rules” really only work if you want to be able to send your kids to school or daycare. If you are keeping them home and homeschooling, it’s still pretty anything goes. I know a surprising number of intelligent people who don’t vaccinate. We don’t really hang out with them since we’ve had a child…
I could care less about any of it until she says she’s not vaccinating because I do not understand why a parent would want to gamble with their child’s lives like this, willingly!? Save heard immunity for the people who can’t get vaccinated because health reasons. There is so much incorrect information out there about vaccines. I have a professional aquantiance that with each child she vaccinated less and less, to the point that her last isn’t vaccinated at all. I like her and we are all just trying to do the best we can but I do not get it.
That’s my thing too. Even if you honest to God believe that they could potentially get something from vaccinations, why would you gamble your kids life like that??
Yeah, being vegan is no big deal (unless you’re a sanctimonious asshole about it) and doing a home birth is fine. Nobody cares about that, and she has the money to make sure it’s done safely.
But anti-vaxx effects people beyond her circle. That’s the entire problem. It’s making a choice that effects more than just you.
Agreed. If you want to be a vegan and raise your child vegan and/or do a homebirth more power to you (and yes… most people are very sanctimonious about those things- sorry vegans!) But I will call people out on the anti vax bs.
I draw the line at 30 day water fasts for kids.
To be fair, thirty day water fasts are not a typical part of vegan diets. That’s just straight up neglect and abuse.
This is what drives me crazy about anti vaxxers. Water birth, doulas and midwives, awesome, I hope it works out for her, raising a vegan kid, fine. All perfectly reasonable personal decisions. Choosing not to vaccinate is NOT solely a personal decision and can have community-level ramifications and wreck the lives of other families, it is selfish and dangerous and so very stupid.
THIS x 1,000
I really can’t stand they way she’s tried to equate home births, and veganism with being anti vax! They are in no way the same things.
Anti-vaxxers like Nikki Reed, Jenny McCArthy and Kat Von D are not only dangerously ignorant and dumb but SELFISH. Fine if you want to risk your child’s health but what about the health of other children who are immunocompromised and so rely on herd immunity?
“Having our baby drug free at home with our midwife and doulas “.
If that had been my plan for my first child…well, There would be no first child to speak of.
I am eternally grateful to the nursesand doctors who saved him when his heart stopped right in the middle of labour. And it required a lot of medical equipment, too.
I am sure she has a backup plan, but sometimes every second is critical.
This. All of this. I’m so glad your baby is okay. You raise an excellent point about the uncertainties of childbirth. Yes, water and home births etc are usually fine, but if there’s a serious life-threatening problem like this, you need to be in a hospital.
Same here. My first son was born and had an issue with his lungs and required 40% oxygen in order to breathe. He then spent 9 days in the NICU. When he was first born he was wrapped up in a blanket and handed to me to hold and we had no idea anything was wrong. They didn’t discover he was struggling till they took him to get weighed and measured. I’m grateful to have been in a hospital.
Same. My current infant had a issue that needed immediate response and I am grateful I was in a hospital surrounded by technology and doctors. She’s fine now but it was the most terrifying few minutes of my life.
A good doula/midwife will have a back up plan for an emergency situation. This being said, having doulas and midwives around to coach a woman through a pregnancy and labor is not a bad thing, even if the parent does wind up in a hospital. Our local women’s hospital now keeps them on staff for women who may prefer that type of care. My friend had a high risk pregnancy and knew she’d have to give birth in a hospital, but she found that a lot of her anxiety was relieved by talking to a doula. Part of it was the comfort of ta;king to women who were invested in child birthing as more than a medical procedure, but they also provided alternative procedures that she could consider that were hospital-approved and reviewed with doctors.
Having a backup plan is much better than none, but people should know how fast a woman can bleed out if she tears badly. With natural birth, 85% of all women tears, and a few percent tears badly. One of my best friends got a tear the size of a palm inside her womb, and lost half her blood in less than 15 minutes. She only survived because she was in a hospital, a minute away from the surgery. This kind of thing really isn’t that uncommon.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, you wouldn’t catch me attempting a home birth even if you paid me, but I ultimately side on the idea that it’s a woman’s choice. I do think hospitals could benefit from doulas and midwives, however, in the sense of treating child birth as a process that encapsulates a lifestyle and psychological aspect beyond the purely physical, and sometimes they can provide that focused ideology a little better than harried, overworked doctors.
I had a good friendship end because the parents were like…”Oh, we don’t believe in vaccinations”…now, I’m a grown woman and at that time I was in my 40s…I’ve NEVER had any childhood disease…even though my Mama ran a daycare when I was growing up…and even though she made SURE we were immunized to the HILT (my Aunt suffered from childhood Polio…which was DEVASTATING to her)…and anytime any of the children in the daycare came down with something…I STILL didn’t get anything…cause, you know, immunization…WORKS!
But when my middle-aged friends were speaking out the side of their necks about NOT immunizing their children…I promptly let them know that they didn’t have to worry about me…EVA being around them again…because they were raising incubators of DOOM! That didn’t go over too well…and we haven’t talked in YEARS! But I MEANT THAT! I have known too many grown folks who caught childhood disease and damn near died!
“Incubators of DOOM” 💀😂💀😂 love your comments LaLa!!
Incubators of Doom cracked me up but it is true too.
My mother is old enough to remember and know survivors of polio. It blows her mind that anybody would risk their child that way.
Yes. My stepfather (65 yrs) belongs to the last generation in our country who caught childhood polio. He spent most of his childhood cooped up inside, watching the other kids play through a window. The polio made it necessary for him to wear corsets etc, and he was quite frail. The thing is, he considers himself LUCKY. He saw other kids when he received treatment, who had it far worse. In the end, he escaped with a crooked spine and a limp. I really don’t see how people scorn the vaccine, it’s crazy.
Insufferable woman.
I have a friend who can’t be vaccinated because she had a transplant when she was a baby; people like her who are already immuno-compromised rely on herd immunity. By not vaccinating you’re not only endangering your own child, you’re endangering other people too.
I saw this yesterday on her IG account. It came up because someone made a comment that not all vaccines were vegan, or something like that. She then posted that she would be raising a vaccine free, home birthed, vegan child….. and the flood gates opened. I’ve been a long time fan of Kat but this is too much. Honestly – I feel the Same way you do Celebitchy. I love her makeup but I can’t in right conscience support financially an idiot who is a risk to public health. It’s rediculous that she’s not gonna vaccinate her child because of some shit she read online and then she has the audicity to infer that people who do vaccinate haven’t done their research. Girl, go to a third world country. See how people die from stupid shit diseases that could have been prevented with a vaccine! I would never wish harm on her or her child, but maybe they need to need to watch some documentaries on polio, measles, mumps and rubella first. I’m unfollowing her on IG and not buying her makeup anymore.
I wish they captured the number of people who either died or were hospitalized from not vaccinating as a result of shit celebrities *cough* jenny McCarthy *cough* have said. It’s soooo dangerous.
I feel sorry for her kid, because there are a lot of nasty bugs out there and s/he won’t have protections from them. I do find it a little ironic that someone with that many tats has an aversion to needles and injecting foreign substances into the body.
This. Let’s not forget about all the botox she’s had injected in her face either. That’s literally nerve poison!
Her wedding is so OTT and gaudy, she seems to really think a lot of herself. I do follow her on Instagram because of her makeup and animal rights work. But not vaccinating your kid is just dumb. Hopefully nobody suffers as a result.
So what journal subscription database did she use for her research? You think Kat Von d PubMeds?
And how many science courses has she taken? I mean sure, let’s trust the opinion of some celebrities that, in the best cases, might have played a MD or a scientist at some point instead of people who spent years (and thousands of dollars) in school studying all these things! What do we scientists know, right? (and yeah, I’m writing this while in the lab)
And yes, if she or her kid get sick, we’ll still try to help them
I just wonder if Sephora is going to issue a statement. She’s one of their top-selling brands and I’m interested to know if she’s going to say her typical ‘f-you’ to her parent company.
I’m super disappointed and saddened by her.
if enough people stop buying her stuff, they’ll drop her line.
just like a lot of retailers did with Ivanka Trump’s stuff. not cost effective.
People won’t tho because in all her other scandals/dust-ups they’ve rationalized continuing to buy her products, because the “pigment is sO good!!”, “her lipsticks last forever!1!!”, and “Yeah Ik being an anti-vaxxer sucks, but I just really like the quality and craftsmanship of her makeup ya know?” Nevermind the fact that the makeup industry is SATURATED with other options for every product category one might want from her smh
I’m not sure this a strong enough reason for Sephora to drop her line. By all means stop buying her product (I use her tattoo concealer as well as her Ink eyeliner which now I need to re-think buying) but unless her sales drop, I don’t see her line being pulled.
Even if you are vaccinated you can still come down with whooping cough if you are exposed to it. Which is another reason why vaccines are important- so those viruses aren’t floating around out there.
won’t matter if you vaccinate or not when your child dies at home with a prolapsed cord because “hospitals are the worst”. have a drug free labor in a hospital. where doctors can save your and your baby’s lives.
SADLY I know of a family that brags about their doctor lying for them to schools and daycares for paperwork that says their kid was vaccinated!! I honestly want to report it but I don’t know the name of the doctor and I’m not “friends” with the family and have zero contact info. I also hear about, don’t personally know who these people are, doctors filing under religious reasons paperwork for not vaccinating a child so they can get into public schools…..it’s just the families loophole. They aren’t even religious. There were rumors of that for YEARS in my area but I thought they were going to make the religious reasons excuse not one you can use anymore because it was being abused as a cover for not vaccinating?
Wow that doctor should be ashamed. What is the doctor getting out of lying for the parents? Money? I just don’t get it. That really disgusts me…as does the selfishness of the parents. Ughhh I really really hate the world we live in.
I hope someone reports that doctor to the state board for lying, malpractice, whatever charges can be made to stick. And if anyone else’s children become ill due to the doctor’s irresponsibility, that the doctor gets slapped with lawsuits and further complaints. Talk about abusing your position of trust.
When her kid gets the chicken pox or worse, measles, she can explain to her child why no vaccines was a good idea. What a fool!
I’m old enough to have gotten chicken pox before the vaccine came out. It’s not the absolute worse disease to have, but it’s no picnic, either. My sister still has scarring on her face from the worst of it. And now I get to worry about getting shingles later in life! 😀
Umm, since when is chicken pox life threatening? Annoying yes. Nor is mumps. It was really rare for a boy to go sterile because of mumps complications. Girls should not even be vaccinated for mumps.
Making mumps vaccination choices on the basis of biological sex might make sense @Aurelia if sterility was the only possible consequence. But inflammation of the brain (sometimes fatal) and permanent deafness can also occur. Sure, those outcomes are rare but are just as serious a consequence for a girl as for a boy.
It doesn’t make sense even if sterility is the only concern. It wouldn’t protect the boys who couldn’t be vaccinated, and you would still wind up with sick girls – and for what reason?
Chicken pox is certainly deadly to anyone who can’t form a proper immune response. Even in healthy individuals, herpes zoster (chicken pox) can remain dormant in a system even after initial infection, where it can later flare up in the form of shingles. Then it can do things like cause long-term nerve damage and even blindness. Any disease has the potential to create secondary complications, particularly if it’s serious enough to result in a hospital stay. More importantly, it can passed to others who are immunodeficient where it can cause far more serious symptoms and even result in fatality. Vaccination isn’t just about protecting one child. It’s about protecting everyone around them, too.
If my child can’t bring peanut butter to school, yours shouldn’t bring preventable diseases.
Jordan, I might come off ignorant but I don’t have a kid in grade school yet……is this a thing?! My toddler will be sad. Every day he wants a peanut butter honey sandwich.
The schools I’ve been at since middle school (myself) prohibited peanut butter due to allergic reactions. It’s always been sun butter and honey from the schools. No peanut butter products. I’ve seen the same with my daughter’s school and previous daycares.
Thank you and that’s good to know! I’ll start subbing in sun butter and such so he gets use to it.
Yeah, I think reaction rates to peanut butter up around 2,5% of the total population now? Something ridiculously high. Allergies and autoimmune conditions are on the rise in general for reasons science can’t quite explain yet.
Where I live, every school has a no tree nuts and no peanuts policy.
Hey there, honestly they taste the same. There’d be weeks in which I would only get the sun butter and honey sandwich from school. He should be good!
But yeah, my daughter is vaccinated. I’ve been vaccinated. My mom is Nurse practitioner so I’ve had the long talk with her over the vaccinations and autism talk. Autism has been around longer than vaccines. Just advancements in medical and psychology have allowed us to define and see it. I think (a lot ) it’s environmental with the way the rise has been but that’s my own personal opinion.
My child IS allowed to bring peanut butter to school, however they have a nut free table for children with allergies. However, they don’t separate or exclude children who just have a nut allergy. Anyone can sit there as long as they have no peanut products in their lunch. My daughter has a good friend with food allergies (including peanuts and tree nuts) and she often takes a nut free lunch to be able to sit next to him.
Her daycare and preschool were nut free however. Possibly because smaller kids don’t have as much self control. There is a no sharing food policy in our county, but the county doesn’t outlaw nuts at school.
Food allergies are no joke, so I try to be super cognizant of that in situations with other kids.
The rise in allergies is due to genetic modification. Peanuts are all GMO. Gradually all grown food in the world will be GMO very soon. Good times.
Unlikely. Any form of farming involves some level of genetic modification, whether it’s done through cross breeding or in a lab. The more likely culprit is the amount of processed food we eat. Peanut oil is used in a lot of products beyond the butter. It contains proteins not commonly found in a lot of other ingredients, so our immune systems may just have an easier time forming antibodies against it.
That’s a great point, Jordan.
Thank you!
Except food allergies have been rising steadily for several generations now, and GMO’s are comparatively new.
There is such a HUGE list of things kids can’t bring to school/eat (parental issue), that in my last 2 yrs. of teaching we had to cancel all class holiday parties. This one can’t have any nut product, this one no dairy, this one eggs, this one gluten… you get the idea. It was INSANE!
Seriously, HOW did we, as a (human) race, get to this point where almost everyone is allergic (real or otherwise) to EVERYTHING!? So, NO ONE gets ANYTHING! NO TREATS FOR YOU! HO TREATS FOR YOU! (thanks Oprah, 😊 ). But IT IS INSANE! My nephew was very allergic to eggs and peanuts growing up….so, we didn’t send him to school with anything containing peanuts and eggs. And for class parties, we supplied treats for him that he enjoyed perfectly well. And it was fine for all concerned. Now, if ONE KID has a “sensitivity”, the whole school has to do without, rather than this one parent take responsibility for her one kid.
Another reason not to buy anything from this moron! Unfollowed her as soon as I read her post. I was trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. She and other anti vaxxer idiots need to be put on an island away from society and see how well they fare! The sad thing is the only people who will suffer are those who are too young to be vaccinated or susceptible to disease (old, sick, pregnant etc). So upsetting
Stupid people. And those little tats around her eyes are going to look pretty awful in 20 years.
They look pretty awful now.
I giggled at this!
Great, going to need to buy a new eyeliner.
I CANNOT handle anti-vaxxers!!!
Our hospital allows you to have a water birth with your midwife, and then you’re already on scene if you need medical intervention.
One of my best friends is a nurse in the NICU and nothing makes her angrier than home births. She’s taken care of a lot of full term babies that would have been alright if they were born in a hospital, but now have permanent brain damage from complications of a home birth.
there are parents in impoverished countries that would give an arm and a leg for their children to have access to the vaccinations that we can get for ours here for little cost at any time. and there are places like Pakistan where health workers are literally dying to provide children vaccinations. if only the anti-vaxxers in our country stood back and took a look at what things are like for children in countries that don’t have access to our immense medical bounty.
And I am here to announce that Kat Von D needs to keep her unvaccinated child far AF away from my family…so stupid and unacceptable.
When the chicken pox vaccine came out my daughter was very young. I was concerned about its safety and discussed with her doctor. He said, “If I could guarantee that nothing bad would happen to her if she got the chicken pox, I would not be worried if you didn’t vaccinate her. But some kids have horrible complications from this disease and some kids die.” That was enough for me. Even though she was vaccinated she STILL was one of those rare kids who still got a mild form of it. She had maybe a total of ten dots but it was enough to keep her home for the duration. I am so glad I listened to the doctor. Who knows how bad her situation could have been had she had a full blown case of it.
UGH. She’s stupid. There’s no other word for it. Anti-vaxxers are just plain stupid people.
Hey Kat! Measles, mumps and rubella send their thanks!
I am of an age to remember the polio epidemic in the UK in 1956. I recall a girl who was condemned to live her life with one leg withered, another pupil’s mother who spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair. That is not to mention the deaths, the people confined for the rest of their lives in an “iron lung” because they could no longer breathe for themselves. There was a massive immunisation programme which halted the spread. It has now been wiped out in the country, along with smallpox which has I believe been eradicated worldwide.
I caught measles before a vaccine was available. I was lucky, was only ill for three weeks and recovered fully, and caught German measles in my teens and was quarantined at home for the sake of any pregnant women I might come into contact with. Measles is not a minor ailment – it can cause death, blindness and heart problem, and Rubella can cause birth deformities.
Why would you not want you child to be protected against these diseases?
Because they just don’t understand the gravity. Measles is mild – until it isn’t. And even today about 10% of all cases require hospitalization. As a parent, those aren’t odds I want to play.
My mom knew people who lost their hearing and even suffered infertility from measles when she was growing up. It ain’t no joke even when it’s a milder case.
The subsequent encephalitis from measles is what killed Roald Dahl’s daughter.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/roald-dahls-open-letter-about-his-daughter-dying-from-measles-becomes-touchpoint-for-current-us-10019824.html
I’m 33. My mum’s uncle caught polio as a kid and even though he survived, he remained greatly handicapped for the rest of his long life. Same had happened to one of my math teachers in HS. Two of my great-grandmas lost kids before they were 10 and were still crying when they were thinking about them decades later when I was a kid. My dad died of AIDS a few months before tri-therapy came on the market. Even in “developed” countries with socialized medicine, people still die from infectious diseases, some of which remain incurable.
I want to punch anti-vaxxers in the face so hard whenever I hear one: I simply can’t understand why you’d risk getting sick from a totally preventable disease. You shouldn’t have to lose someone you care about to understand why vaccination is so freackin’ awesome
My daughter is one of those kids who has auto immune disease and takes medicine to purposely suppress her immune system. Last year she got whooping cough. It wasn’t even on my radar because she was fully vaccinated against it for her age and it was so mild (she never had an audible whopping cough). But obviously the vaccine didn’t work on her. We notified everyone we were in contact with, our ped contacted our school and the health dept. The preschool send out a letter, the health dept called us twice and i had to answer lots of questions. My husband and I had to take antibiotics too, even thought we weren’t showing any symptoms. It was taken super seriously. This year was our first in public school and i was terrified that she would get ill. I feel incredibly lucky she did not get really sick. More and more these days i feel like empathy is going away. I see most notably driving about my city. Everybody just cares about themselves.
I have a friend who vaccinates on an alternate schedule. They get vaccinated, but later than everyone else (and not some she feels are “unnecessary”). It used to bother me only a little, as they were getting vaccinated against stuff, just later, but now the hubris and the arrogance – that she knows better than the PhDs who create these schedules, that her kids should be able to delay the small risks of vaccination, relies on the fact that most of us full vaccinate our kids. It’s arrogant and selfish. I find myself unwanting to be friends with her anymore.
It’s also fundamentally lacking in understanding of the science. People who think that a reduced/staggered schedule is safer are arrogant, as you say. But they’re also uninformed, because that position relies on a belief that vaccinations are the main, or even a major proportion of, the pathogens their kids will encounter.
From the day a child is born, they encounter literally thousands of new pathogens every single day. Their immune systems respond, develop and strengthen from that. All vaccination does is use that naturally occurring process to introduce an attenuated version of some really nasty bugs, so their immune systems learn how to fight them off in a safe, controlled way, alongside countless millions of others, many of which we won’t even have identified as yet. It’s inherently mistaken, the belief that reducing the schedule is somehow safer, because vaccination accounts for an incalculably tiny percentage of all immune response triggers. It would only work as a theory on a kid who lived in a bubble, and never encountered the myriad of pathogens we all do, all the time.
Literally the only people who shouldn’t be vaccinated are those who have an allergy for an ingredient, and/or those who are in some way chronically vulnerable to all pathogens (and who therefore rely on the rest of us vaccinating, to lengthen their odds of escaping infectious illness).
It worries me, that people who really don’t understand the research around vaccination are in charge of another person’s healthcare. Their own, and that’s their right, even though it does risk others; it’s their bodily autonomy, after all. But someone else’s? It’s ethically really questionable, IMO.
I’ve tried explaining that. She claims it’s the preservatives and I’m like, guaranteed your kid is exposed to more stuff in the air and water – or in what your body produces (I believe our bodies produce small amounts of formaldehyde in the course of some processes). It’s just arrogance. And insecurity, quite honestly.
I don’t know what her schedule is but we don’t vaccinate per the general schedule either. Some vaccine schedules are non-negotiable but Hep B is one that we delay. Our pediatrician is pro vax but she recognizes that some vaccinations are a little more flexible. Her credentials are exemplary so I trust her.
Regardless of KVD’s nonsense there is room to question medicine and pharma’s mutually beneficial financial relationship. I don’t think doctors are armed with all of the answers or latest research either. I don’t believe all doctors are equally capable and skilled. I don’t believe science always gets it right. They used to bleed people and think worms in teeth caused cavities and that mercury and coke were legit cures. We advance and change protocols but it takes a long time for the paradigm to shift.
The thing with vaccines is the evidence is there to support them. It is not esoteric. It isn’t grey.
I just don’t put it past pharma to come up with more innocuous vaccines to make more money in a capitalist society.
The problem is people like KVD and her homegirl Jenny M is that they are armed with just enough zeal and superficial information to mix in with their ignorance to make themselves believe the crap they come with up. Their celebrity status leads them to believe they have talents and insight they don’t have.
If your friend is playing around with the core vaccines she is a smug fool. I think it depends.
Did you just liken the hep b vaccine to medieval bleeding?
I can’t imagine my children will be coming in contact with others’ bodily fluids for a while or blood hopefully ever, but unless a child has a specific allergy or prior immune reaction to a vaccine, there’s nothing to be gained by waiting.
No. I didn’t. My point is that there were beliefs before that were archaic and we came to learn that in time. Medicine evolves as science evolves.
Hep B is a sexually transmitted disease and unless the mother is a carrier it is one of the vaccines that can be delayed. That was my point. Poorly executed but it was.
It isn’t something that is easily transmitted to a baby and I can’t recall an instance when any of my children were in danger of catching it. If I lived in an underdeveloped country I would not have the same view.
Bleeding wasn’t just medieval they did it until the mid 19th century.
Hepatitis B is not a sexually transmitted disease, there are many ways to get it other than this. On another side, bleeding as hemophilia is NOT an infectious disease but a gene mutation that is genetically transmitted so no vaccination is possible. We should be careful not to mix concepts.
Hepatitis B is not a sexually transmitted disease, there are many ways to get it other than this. On another side, bleeding as hemophilia is NOT an infectious disease but a gene mutation that is genetically transmitted so no vaccination is possible. And Hemophilia is still an existing disease, nothing realetd to medieval plague. We should be careful not to mix concepts.
I am of an age to remember the 1956 polio epidemic in the UK. I recall a girl who was condemned to life with a withered leg, and a mother confined to a wheelchair for the rest of her life. That is not to mention the deaths, the victims condemned to life in an “iron lung” because they could no longer breathe for themselves. A massive vaccination programme brought stop to the epidemic. Smallpox has been eradicated worldwide outside of the lab through vaccination. TB (from which my grandmother died) has been massively reduced in this country through vaccination.
I remember being off school for three weeks with measles (before vaccination was available). I was lucky and recovered, but it can kill, cause blindness and heart problems. Rubella is known to cause birth defects. What sane person would want their children to be at such risk, when there is a means of prevention?
My uncle has damage from polio.
She is fucking crazy. Anti-vaxxers are some of the worst people on the planet. They jeopardize the lives of thousands of other people by disrupting the herd immunity which is extremely crucial for keeping eradicated diseases at bay.
As a vegetarian who has also been vegan (and ridiculed heavily in the past), I half expected a ton of crap slung at her for the vegan thing and I’m super happy that it’s not! I’m equally happy with the amount being slung at her for her anti-vaxx stance!
I can sling that, too. But that’s not going to affect anyone else. Not vaccinating is.
I think forcing veganism on a child is as bad as forcing religion onto one. Second…serious question here…is she stupid? Why wouldn’t she vaccinate her child? Does she even know want a vaccination is?
“I think forcing veganism on a child is as bad as forcing religion onto one”
yeah it’s about as bad as forcing your kid to eat the carcass of another living being. That argument works both ways.
Not really.
Let’s not forget that we, human beings, have a metabolism resulting of 4 million years of evolution (since first hominids), that turned us as a omnivores. Our bodies still need to fulfill a omnivore diet as our ancestors did. The parents choice to raise kids as vegans or vegetarians is antinatural. Adults may have the choice, but kids at developing age should grow as nature dictates to. Evolution can’t be erased in a couple of generations. So yeah, this looks like a bigot religion to me.
Honestly, I don’t think raising your kid vegan or religious (instilling your values and beliefs is a huge part of child raising, no getting around that) is a problem if it’s done with respect to the child’s needs and autonomy. A good vegan diet makes sure all nutritional needs are met, and that’s easy enough if the parents have the money and resources.
This being said, people should not be f*cking around with infant diets. Breastfeed or use prescription formula. Save the “lifestyle” for when they can digest solids.
I don’t mind if you want to raise your kids vegan. I raise my kids with zero dairy or eggs, but they do have a bit of meat everyday. But anti vaxxing, you are just being bat sh!t crazy. Science has shown that they are fine. Thousands of studies! She’s putting other children and people at risk. She’s sounded uninformed and stupid. And honestly I would never be friends with an antivaxer. Dumb a$$e$.
Can I ask why you don’t feed them dairy or eggs? Is there an allergy problem or just choice?
All these anti-vaccine people have parents who were vaccinated without any signs of autism. And vaccines are used in developing countries without any outbreaks of autism. Yet they still believe that vaccines cause autism? And even if vaccines could cause autism they would rather have dead children than ones with autism? Like what about literally every medication in the world that comes with side-effects? Would you rather die of cancer than take chemo drugs? If there was a vaccine for HIV would these anti-vaccine people not take it?
Science doesn’t support the theory that vaccines cause autism. And I think it’s crazy not to vaccinate. BUT @Original TC vaccines have changed over the years. The concern re: autism has been about newer schedules and combinations in vaccines (like MMR) so saying parents were vaccinated and turned out fine won’t necessarily convince an anti-vaxxer. It is appalling though Wakefield has done so much damage. And even worse, there is evidence his flawed paper that started all of this was written because he was working with a vaccine company to develop new “safer” vaccines. So he had an economic interest in deeming current vaccines unsafe. Guess he forgot the “First do no harm” part of his oath.
I don’t think she is totally vain, but she is certainly focussed on looks and appearances. I hope someone informs her that measles can cause blindness. I also hope she sees pictures of children with chicken pox scars. If scientific facts can’t convince her of the value of vaccines, and if the pleas of parents of immune-compromised kids cannot spark any empathy or compassion from her, then I hope at least her vanity would keep her from making such a stupid choice.
My daughter had a doula and labored at home for quite some time; went in to hospital, labored for 9 more hours, all normal. But then had an abruption and emergency c section. Yeah, I’m all for your comfort and choices for painfree, doula help, etc., but we almost lost them both so keep that precious child and yourself close to medical intervention and help.
Anti vaccination? Appalling and so dangerous. It’s like playing in the freeway during rush hour with a full parked bus..it won’t end well. And it’s totally preventable. Sheesh.
My niece refuses to vaccinate her kids. They are always sick and on antibiotics. So stupid!
The antibiotic overuse will do more damage than any fantasy about vaccines she has dreamed up.
She’s a selfish ass, that’s all.
Her children will potentially carry deceases onto others with compromised immune systems. Being vegan is not ridiculous and it doesn’t give you immune super powers. I’ll wager her kids will be “protected” by herd immunity and this will reinforce her smugness and righteousness.
Ok… Feed your kid grass if you want (I’m kidding; I’m mostly vegan, too), but for the love of god, don’t let them go around unvaccinated.
I don’t agree with her decision to anti-vax but, she should know better than to post this on social media. People are super judgmental and I find it hilarious that some people would boycott her brand over her decision on how to raise her own child.
@nikzilla Im concerned over immunocompromised people (those with cancer, babies too young for vaccines, the elderly) who will be exposed once KVD and her ilk damage herd immunity. The unvaccinated can act as carriers for diseases even if they never get sick. . What right does anyone have to make others less safe? This isn’t about bedtimes or screen time, etc, it’s about life and death. It truly boggles the mind that some wouldn’t see that.
Not sure why that’s “hilarious” to you. I, as a consumer with significant disposable income, prefer not to support business owners who are assholes. The end.
Also, do you not see the inconsistency in your post? “People are so judgmental” yet there you go…judging people’s choices. Alrighty then.
Good for her. Absolute bullshit to shove hep B vaccine into a newborn and inundate them with the most INTENSE VACCINE SCHEDULE IN THE WHOLE WORLD (supersize me! I’m an American. Derp!). I’ve had numerous consults with docs and we handpick our vaccinations. Too many sick kids. This is not a black and white topic
its a very black and white topic to people who are immune suppressed. my husband has an untreatable lung disease and takes immune suppressants. if he is exposed to some one who chooses not to vaccinate and becomes ill, it will kill him. it’s very black and white to me.
It’s also black and white to me, with an inherited immunodeficiency.
Or to my friends who have children with cancer, who rely on their classmates’ vaccinations in the classroom to keep them safe while they undergo treatment.
Or to the myriad people who cannot risk vaccinations.
This is about public health and the social contract.
Discussing the need to extend the vaccination schedule with your doctors is not the same thing as refusing to vaccinate your child at all. (Albeit, there are a paucity of studies suggesting any chronic effects of the vaccine schedule for most children.) One is making a reasonable suggestion to examine the potential impact on a child. The other is just straight up leaving them vulnerable to infection and becoming a vector that could harm others.
I’d also point out that the vaccination schedule in the United States is mirrored by similar standards in the Europe and most of the industrialized world. (China actually goes a step further and does HepB AND TB at birth.) I’m not entirely sure why you think ours is particularly intense in comparison to others.
China has to have Hep B from birth as it is a developing nation for gods sake. Same with India.
TB is the vaccine more likely given at birth because of the fact it’s a developing nation. Hep B is given at birth in a number of developed countries, otherwise. Even in America, dosing with Hep B at birth showed a decrease in over all rates of infection across the population. Just because it is less common doesn’t mean it’s absent altogether.
This being said, would you care to explain exactly how that is relevant to my point about the veracity of her statement?
There is not one ounce of fact in your post, and you’re conflating multiple unrelated issues. Good job with the all caps too. Makes you look super sane.
Well she can keep her unvaccinated, diseased child away from the masses then.
Having watched my grandfather incredibly incapacitated by polio (he was unable to use the right side of his body, and effectively had to drag himself around), all I can is: ugh.
Thing is, we’re so used to not seeing the devastating impacts of a lack of herd immunity that there’s almost a luxury of ignorance. And that’s precisely what it is: ignorance.
People genuinely don’t think that diseases can make a comeback. Or that they can kill in the 21st century. Or about those who are immuno-suppressed for whatever reasons. The cognitive dissonance is distressing.
Want to be vegan? Fine, sure, whatever. Want to not vaccinate your child? You’d best keep your child away from public attractions and schools.
I’m going to go one step further and urge adults to make sure their vaccinations are up to date, particularly the MMR and TDaP.
My children have all been born since 2011, and with each, my doctor has recommended the TDaP as a safety measure. Childcare workers, grandparents, parents, educators – please help maintain herd immunity for us all.
I also want to add that if parents travel out of the country with their kids then it needs to be discussed thoroughly and their vaccines need to be more aggressive. While my children may not get ill from something they can bring it back and hurt someone else. I went through this recently when I took my children to a country where vaccines aren’t always available.
Refusing to vaccinate is one of the most disgustingly privileged stances possible in this world. It’s only done by people who live in countries rich enough to provide them universally, and for free, so the parents in question have absolutely no clue what it is their child is being shielded from. People in the global south will walk miles and queue for hours to have their kids vaccinated. People here witter on self-importantly about their “online research” as they expose us all to risk.
This.
This is full of BS. Thanks to those of us who’ve been vaccinated to reduce the incidence of possibility for her child to catch anything! I think she’s being stupid and rude and forgetting that she’s living in a society where we have obligations to one another.
OK honey, have fun dealing with your sick kid when he gets measles and whooping cough.
Also, stay far the f-ck away from me, because I am one of those people who relies on herd immunity to stay safe from completely preventable diseases, and I am getting sick and tired of being put at risk by idiots like you.
/rant
My daughter had a bad reaction to her first baby DPT shot, so we were told to skip the P (whooping cough) part thereafter. Twenty-five years later in nursing school they were giving each other boosters as a class project and she went for the full trio. Anaphylactic reaction–off to the ER she went.
A few years later she got whooping cough, presumably from a patient, and was sick for two months. Luckily for her family, she and her husband are not fools who can’t distinguish between exceptions to the rule and general common sense, so their kids were vaccinated and fine.
That was irresponsible of the class to arrange those shots without consulting medical history. Allergic reactions happen, which is why those individuals should be protected by the rest of us.
Agreed and thank you.
Most folks don’t make pronounced announments about vaccination for their kids, but the anti vaccine crew relish making these announcements.
I don’t follow the thought process..
We homeschool because I have an autoimmune disorder. I do get my boosters but that doesn’t guarantee I won’t get sick. Even a simple cold will sit and incubate inside me and what I pass on is 10x worse than the sniffles that my husband or youngest child had. I also suspect AI issues in my middle child, who is also autistic. She gets her vaccinations but I’d rather not subject either of us to the Petri dish of public school. There are some vaccines I can’t have the shingles vaccine because of my condition.
We do not get flu shots, though. All 5 of us have been healthier than ever in the 4 years since we stopped the flu shot. We used to be sick with colds and the like frequently but that all went away and none of us have had more than a 24-hour case of the sniffles. The only times I’ve had the flu were the years I got my shot, same with my kids. People can say that the shot doesn’t cause the flu but our personal history argues against that *for us*. I won’t tell anyone else to not get it, though. You do what’s best for yourself and your family where the flu shot is concerned.
If you are immunocompromised, it’s very likely the flu you picked up and/or spread to your kids was one of the more uncommon strains. The vaccines are usually tri or quadvalent and protect against the most common ones running around, which unfortunately means it’s entirely possible to pick it up if you get hit by a different strain. (Keep in mind, too, that as your kids get older, their immune systems will be better developed and therefore less prone to constant infections.)
This being said, it’s also entirely possible one of you is having a reaction, especially considering your immune status, so I understand it.
However, anybody working in a hospital or in professional environments that cater to vulnerable populations should be required to get it unless there’s a medical requirement otherwise. I used to be more lackadaisical about my flu shots, but after working in a hospital for years and seeing just how many people the “simple flu” took down, I’ve gotten more keen about keeping up to date on it.
All I say is don’t come crying to the world when your little anti-vax plan backfires on you. I’m not wishing harm on anyone’s kid, but lady you are. She has always irritated me with her plastic face and man voice.
…. aaaaaand watch me never purchase another KVD product!
If an unvaccinated child & all who come into contact with him/her are fortunate enough to not get preventable diseases, then those unvaccinated children have benefited from everyone else’s herd immunity. But if that child gets a preventable disease (& almost inevitably spreads it to others), then irresponsible anti-vax parents should be given a stiff fine or otherwise held liable.
She doesn’t live in reality. Never has, never will.
I don’t have kids, but if I did, I would definitely get them vaccinated. My grandmother had polio as a child and ended up spending the last few decades of her life in a wheelchair due to PPS. It’s a horrible disease, and so easily preventable.
I’m sorry. But I in general cannot stand it. She has made anti-Semite statements. I guarantee you this marriage will last a year. I would not be surprised if they were done before the baby is born. (Please see her past relationships and marriages. )
I refuse to buy her makeup. Now more reason with this irresponsible anti-vaccine bs. She is endangering other children.
I love her eyeliner as well but I have become very turned off by her persona and beliefs and I am not going to be purchasing her products again once I am finished with what I currently own. I am not even religious at all but I find her upside down cross at her wedding to be distasteful and offensive and the Satan wedding gown was idiotic and… thirsty. I have no issue with vegans but I find militant vegans to be off putting and she has obviously NOT educated herself if she is anti-vaccine. Intelligent people vaccinate.
Best eyeliner out there https://www.ulta.com/eye-booster-lash-2-in-1-boosting-eyeliner-serum?productId=xlsImpprod17591087&sku=2522431&cmpid=PS_Non!google!Product_Listing_Ads&cagpspn=pla&CATCI=pla-121632225390&CAAGID=17983616910&CAWELAID=330000200001330731&catargetid=330000200000332054&cadevice=m&gclid=CjwKCAjw0ujYBRBDEiwAn7BKt4qMX_0Hz9QJLwR5GiBGsWPSpsst2U82oIbv1VYstTTSpPGdb53oZxoC9IkQAvD_BwE
I know there are different reasons for not vaccinating but I have heard from a few people that these diseases aren’t around anymore so it’s not a big deal. I had a blood test during my first pregnancy which showed I do not have adequate protection against rubella (I did have all my vaccines as a kid and I had some immunity but apparently not enough). The doctor made a big deal about it. Stay away from daycares, sick kids, know any un-vaxxed kids? Make sure to avoid them. Yes people still get rubella and it is dangerous. Your baby could die or be seriously deformed Once that baby is out get vaccinated. Ok. Had the baby. Got vaccinated. DO NOT GET PREGNANT. After the vaccine you must wait because you have traces of rubella in your system. It is dangerous. Ok. Eventually I have a second pregnancy. Tested again. Still do not have adequate immunity to this. Questions again. Is my kid in daycares? No, how much time does he spend aeound other kids? Any of his playmates un-vaxxed? Stay away from sick kids.
So for people who think these diseases are no longer a threat or that it is not a big deal because other people have been vaccinated, think again. If you know anyone who thinks this way please share this story to let them know that these diseases still pose threats and why herd immunity is important.
All if it’s cool except the anti-vaccination. That’s putting everyone else at risk too.
There simply is no way to properly educate yourself into being anti-vaccine for human children. You can go and improperly educate yourself with crap though… and that’s obviously what she’s going to do.
“As for Kat’s wish to have her baby drug free in a water bath at home, that’s cool, I did something similar and had my baby at a birth center. There’s nothing wrong with that.”
There’s a lot of wrong with that. The last time one of my friends decided to do that she almost died in her bathtub from blood loss (even thought her pregnancy wasn’t complicated and there were no warnings from her doctor). Please, be close to a qualified medical stuff when you give birth. Anything can happen to anyone.
Yep, and thank you for that comment.
A lot of hospitals do have comfortable birth suites nowadays with bath tubs and slings and all such things. Please check your options!
No vaccinations? Then keep your kid out of public – and private – schools. Other kids don’t need your kid’s preventable, horrible childhood diseases. Preventable major diseases can ruin your organs and devastate the body for your whole life.
Irresponsible. A pity to die of an avoidable illness….
Cannot believe the hypocracy of the woman.
She always has a full face of makeup, has had plenty beauty procedures done, is covered in tattoos. She has her own make-up line for goodness sake (and it’s not even 100% vegan apparently). How are all of those millions of chemicals better for her OR the human inside her, than having a doctor along for the birth, or vaccinating your child??
I am not judging a home birth or raising a vegan child (although neither are risk-free), but her hypocracy enrages me.
Also, Kat Von D, veganism and anti-vaxxerism are NOT the same thing.