Game of Thrones Ep. 8.4, The Mad Queen & ‘The Last of the Starks’ (spoilers)

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SPOILERS for last night’s episode of Game of Thrones 8.4 “The Last of the Starks.”

In an alternate universe, how different would it have been if Daenerys had listened to the women in the room rather than the men? Sansa gave better advice: rest your men, rest your dragons, take a breath and just reorganize and come up with a good (better) plan. If asked, the Hero of Westeros (perhaps even Azor Ahai herself) Arya Stark would have told Dany that Cersei still exists on her kill list and that Arya would definitely take care of some sh-t, ninja-style. Instead, we’re going Full Mad Queen and I’m not quite sure why. BUT HER DRAGON EMAILS. Some highlights:

Saying Goodbye. The opening with all of the bodies stacked up and the survivors grieving was beautiful – Sansa crying over Theon’s body was especially touching, and I loved that she put her Stark pin on his body. Within the GoT world, it must have take nforever for them to stack up the bodies, right? I feel like weeks have passed since the Long Night.

Most Awkward Victory Party Ever. Everyone’s drinking in the Great Hall and people are pairing off to discuss various things – Davos and Tyrion discuss Melisandre, Tormund tries to make a play for Brienne (she shrugs him off for the final time), and Sansa finally speaks to the Hound, who tells his Little Bird that if only she had come with him, none of the Littlefinger and Ramsay Bolton sh-t would have happened. But then she’d still be his Little Bird, she tells him. This is as close as the Stark women get to thanking the Hound for his years of service to them.

Toxic Masculinity at the Party. Dany makes Gendry Lord Baratheon and they all do a toast to him and to the North. The Northerners are okay with Dany, but they LOVE Jon. Jon, Tormund and some dudes sort of break off and Tormund is hyping Jon, calling him a king, all within earshot of Dany. She doesn’t like that AT ALL. Varys is watching. Dany also doesn’t like seeing Tyrion and Jaime sitting together, playing a drinking game with Brienne and Pod. The drinking game goes on… and Tyrion is like “Brienne is a virgin!” It was such a weird note for this moment in the show, my God.

Gendry Proposes. He tells Arya he loves her and he wants her to be Lady Baratheon. She’s like, dude, I care about you but I’m not about living that life, I’m not a lady. Gendry took it pretty well, right? He seems to understand.

Two Knights Banging In a Warm Room. Brienne rejects Tormund and Jaime finds her in her warm room. He immediately begins stripping off his clothes because she’s got the room so warm. The scene was such a light, funny moment and yes, Jaime and Brienne finally did it. They had sex. We didn’t get to see any of it, other than Brienne fast asleep after that gold hand gave it to her.

Hey Auntie. Jon and Dany try to kiss but it’s not happening, he’s too emo, but he tells her he loves her and that she’s his queen and that he doesn’t want his claim to the Iron Throne. She tells him what he needs to do then – never tell Arya or Sansa, never tell anyone else about who he is. He’s like “But…” and she’s like “I SAID WHAT I SAID.”

The Last of the Starks. Dany is all “on to Kings Landing” and no one but Sansa has the balls to contradict her in the slightest, suggesting that the Northern men need more time to heal and rest. Dany takes this one piece of advice as a total affront. Sansa, Jon, Arya and Bran break off and go the Godswood to talk. Sansa and Arya are basically trying to convince Jon not to go South, not to go all in with Dany, appealing to his Stark-ness. He looks at Bran who is like “your decision, cousin.” THEN THEY CUT IT. We never get to see Jon telling Sansa and Arya. Terrible decision from the writer/director.

Goodbye Ghost & Tormund. Tormund tells Jon he’s going back “North” meaning North of the Wall with the Free Folk. Jon tells Tormund to take Ghost with him. The doggo survived the Long Night just for Jon to give him away?? ARE U KIDDING?

Sansa’s Tea. Sansa swore to Jon that she would never tell a soul and like an hour later, she spilled that tea to Tyrion, OH MY GOD. Tyrion and Varys put together everything they know – all of the last forty years of throne bullsh-t because Robert loved Lyanna and she loved Rhaegar. I mean that, and the fact that Rhaegar’s dad was looney-tunes cray. Varys and Tyrion have two conversations in the same vein – and they really get into it, how they wish they were following Jon Snow, basically, and how Dany is really bugging them, and how the people of Westeros would find it easier to follow a male ruler and But Her Dragon Emails.

Return to Dragonstone. The music cue here was amazing – they did Dany’s theme when she’s having dragon fun as she rode saw Dragonstone. Just then, Euron sent multiple spears through Rheagal, killing that poor dragon. Euron and his fleet were waiting for her at Dragonstone. Grey Worm orders Missandei to get away, get in a smaller boat (where Missandei is captured by Euron). Dany for a moment acts like she’s going to set fire to all Euron’s fleet, but she doesn’t. She flies off on Drogon.

Tyrion Gives More Terrible Advice. He’s a terrible Hand of the Queen, have you noticed that? He was a better hand when he served his family, but serving Dany, he just makes bad decision after bad decision. He advises her to offer Cersei the chance to surrender. Dany agrees.

Poor Brienne. She basically only got a few nights with Jaime before he decided to ride off to be with Cersei. This was Jaime showing Brienne every part of his soul – he calls about Brienne, maybe even loves her, but he’s been pulled to Cersei every time. Brienne is devastated.

Dracarys. Qyburn and Tyrion have a little discussion about who should surrender to whom and Tyrion tries to plead with Cersei directly to think of her future child (who I guess she’s claiming is Euron’s). Bitch is unmoved. She asks Missandei if she has any final words. Missandei cries out, “Dracarys.” The Mountain beheads her. Grey Worm can barely breathe. Dany can barely walk away, but manages to.

We’ll talk more and more about this in the coming hours and days but obviously, Dany is changing and Westeros has not been good to her – her army is significantly depleted, she’s lost Jorah and now Missandei, two of the people she trusted the most in the world. She’s lost two dragons, and people are seeing how vulnerable she really is without those dragons. The war of Kings Landing is going to remind people of Stannis’s last stand. That’s who Dany reminds me of at this point – Stannis Baratheon, someone who sacrificed their child for something they didn’t really understand or even want.

jonbooboo

danydragon

Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.

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308 Responses to “Game of Thrones Ep. 8.4, The Mad Queen & ‘The Last of the Starks’ (spoilers)”

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  1. mm11 says:

    As a Sansa Stan since day 1 and a Daenerys hacer I’m loving all this sh*t. It’s so badly written lmao. She’s going full mad Queen and Jon will probably kill her or something bloke that lol. The only ending that would disappoint me would be dany and Jon ruling together happily.

    • FHMom says:

      I’m thinking Sansa is going for the Iron Throne. She deliberately broke her promise to Jon. The secret of Jon’s parentage has to have huge repercussions. Queen Sansa for the win.

      • LoonyTunes says:

        I think Sana’a is playing for a free north. She wants Jon on the iron throne, who would then allow the north to remain free, under her command. Not a bad idea.

        The only ending that would piss me off is Cercei getting away with everything and remaining on the throne.

      • FHMom says:

        I would love a free North with Jon on the throne. That’s the logical ending, but I think the ending is going to piss off everyone.

      • Digital Unicorn says:

        Sansa is def playing for a Northern Kingdom, free from the Iron Throne. That’s her end game.

      • Megan says:

        Cersei is a lot smarter than Dany and Jon.

      • Lightpurple says:

        Sansa has said repeatedly that she will never go back to King’s Landing. She doesn’t want the Iron Throne; she pretty much made that clear to Littlefinger. Sansa wants a free North and she will be a great warden of that free North.

      • Mia4s says:

        “Cersei is a lot smarter than Dany and Jon.”

        This is true. But I think they planted the seeds of her downfall this episode. One in that Dany is probably just going to burn the lot, and two with Tyrion inadvertently revealing to Euron he is not the baby’s father. Somehow I hope it’s more the latter and that sets Euron off. There would be something poetic about Tyrion taking down Cersei indirectly and without meaning to.

      • Mel says:

        That’s exactly what I thought too, Sansa IS playing the game of thrones! However, while I do think her smart ( though not as smart as most of you think she is) and she was right about letting the troops rest and recover she’s playing with “pieces” that want no part in the game. She learned the game from the most ruthless people around and while it’s what’s made her the person she is today, she’s becoming more “of the same” as them. way to keep a secret! While I was never a huge Dany fan, and didn’t expect her on the throne I hate what they are doing to her storyline, the writing is so horrible and Also Briennne and Jamie should have never happened. Ugh.

      • Himmiefan says:

        It won’t go down well with the audience to have two unstable or bad female with a man to ride in and save the kingdom, so I bet they’ll have a good female in the mix at the end. My prediction is the it will come down to Tyrion regardless of whether or not Jon is alive, and Tyrion asks Sansa to be his co-ruler and not just a consort. They might even move the capital to Winterfell if King’s Landing is destroyed.

      • isabelle says:

        Agree Sansa wants a free North.

      • Louise177 says:

        Agree that Sansa wants a free North and doesn’t care about the Iron Throne. I think she wants to be Queen of the North. I think Jon will get the throne but decide to free all kingdoms. Destroy the Iron Throne.

    • Susan says:

      The show really is trash now. I’ve felt that way for the most part since Season 5 but it’s interesting to see more and more people realizing how illogical the writing is now. The show has gotten by on its excellent production quality for too long which masked its writing issues for a lot of people. But it could only fool people for so long.

      • Megan says:

        Once they got past the books the writing went downhill fast.

      • dappadaph says:

        Yeah so true. Many of us see the tropes and bad writing that are usually left for soap operas and bad fan fiction.

      • snappyfish says:

        This! The show runners can’t write & didn’t read the books. This turn of Daenerys is awful as she is it a tyrant or a villain & Cersei is both. Sansa was horrible I’m the books, she is horrible under the show runners. Dany brings her dragons, armies to fight for the North (& mankind) & Sansa is a petulant jealous whiny child. Dany has dragons but did pick up a sword a fight. Sansa has Arya and hides in a crypt. The starks are known for honor but she breaks her word to Jon. They have ruined this story. Oh & Tyrion has given awful advice and Jon is a horrible at strategy

        Plus I’m broken-hearted over Rhaegar to survive the war and die at Euron’a hand. Mellisande was right…Dracarys

      • Michael says:

        I’ve watched every season and I still have trouble following what is going on. Got too much time invested to just give up on the show which is what I’d normally do. Certainly won’t miss it when it is done.

      • Cali says:

        Yes, GOT has lost it’s f*cking mojo, it’s like fan fiction now and Tyrion’s dialogue is one of the greatest signs of the poor quality now it’s as if he’s a completely different character, Dany is terrible now too, Ghost being rehoused, etc. etc. I can’t believe this is the ending we’re getting to the former greatest show ever made😢

      • Megan says:

        @snappyfish – I don’t think Sansa is jealous, Sansa wants the north to be free. The occupant of the iron throne and his/her minions have brought Sansa nothing but misery. She won’t be put back under that yoke without a fight.

      • Cindy says:

        I thought S5 was pretty strong, but from S6 onwards, the show became, as my boyfriend describes it – “bad anime”.

        I can’t count the number of times one of the main characters has been put in a ridiculously absurd, completely unsurviable situation, just for them to live on based on plot armor. Sometimes the characters also feel Ryan Murphy-esque with the way the character’s intelligence is adjusted for storyline purposes, with lots of supposedly smart characters making some mindblowingly dumb choices (yes Tyrion I am talking about you).

        The show is an event in itself and I grew too attached to it to not go all the way through with it, but frankly, the show has been flat out bad for the past 2 seasons (S6 did have some good episodes trown in the mix). Not just dissapointing, not just inferior in quality to how it was in the beggining. The show is flat-out BAD and stupid now.

      • Megan says:

        @Cindy ; “bad anime” made me laugh out loud. That is exactly what it has become.

    • Beetlejuice says:

      I’m looking forward to Dany being killed…she’s been slowly going mad for about 3 seasons so they’re hardly fast tracking the mad queen storyline. It’s just Dany stans have been unable to see it before now. I too pick Sansa for the win (I’d prefer Jon but I can’t see that being wrapped up that simply)

      • Laur says:

        Ditto, she’s meant to be all about breaking the wheel but can’t see she’s just the same as everyone who’s gone before her.

      • Susan says:

        Honestly, I’m not against Dany going mad in the books because I feel sure that if that occurs, it will at least 100% make sense in the books. And there won’t be a bunch of characters spewing “madness” out of their mouths before any evidence of madness, while simultaneously ignoring men doing a bunch of similar things. I trust that the books will make Dany’s descent into madness logical and interesting and rich and full of meaning to the overall story. But that won’t make me forgive the show for this garbage.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        Bingo!

      • Algernon says:

        @ Laur

        This is the thing about Dany! She wants to break the wheel but can’t imagine a world without monarchy. It’s her inherent hypocrisy.

        @ Susan

        As Beetlejuice says, though, there have been plenty of hints she is going mad for years now. It’s been there all along, but really since Tyrion and Varys met her, people who remember her father and can see the likeness most clearly, there have been consistent beats of Dany’s mad streak popping out. Tyrion is constantly warning her against torching cities with her dragons. That is always her *first* instinct. LIterally the only idea she ever has is to just to burn everything down with a dragon, she has to be talked out of it every time.

      • Megan says:

        If Dany has listened to Sansa she would still have two dragons.

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        @Megan. Yes, if Dany listened to Sansa she would have two dragons. But Sansa wanted Dany to take her dragons and army and leave before the undead arrived, so if Dany had listened to Sansa, the North would have been wiped out completely. Dany may be getting desperate, but sansa is an idiot.

      • Megan says:

        @Mrs K – Actually, if Dany had followed her own instincts she’d have a kingdom, three dragons, and the NK would still be behind the wall. Maybe she needs a few yes-men.

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        @Megan –
        I agree Dany should have followed her own instincts, and Olena’s advice, rather than Tyrion. Tryrion’s plans have all been terrible. I don’t think he was consciously trying to ruin Dany, but going north to grab a zombie? To convince Cersie, whom he knows would never agree to a truce? To starve the people of King’s Landing, knowing Cersie and her army would make sure Cersie will be the last to starve (if Tyrion doesn’t think Cersie will turn her army on any commoner who tries to rebel, he’s dumber than even Sansa). Even now, after Cersie betrayed them, Tyrion wants to try reason. I think Dany will finally follow her own instincts, and be declared “mad” for doing so — rather than having people realize she needed to make up for her losses due to Tyrion’s terrible advice.

    • Gaby says:

      This is so ridiculous, right? Sansa knows how to be a political and manipulative genius after all her years with Littlefinger, it makes NO SENSE that she would be so bad with Daenerys, even if she sees her as an enemy, she would try to manipulate her way to have the North. They want Dany to lose everything and then have Varys betray her to make Dany mad, so they will continue this lazy writing of better-developed characters just to have what they want.

      And seriously Jon??? Not even saying goodbye to Ghost? One scene of them interacting would really blow the budget??? I hate this so much.

      • Lisa says:

        I so agree with this. Sansa is not being portrayed in a flattering way. The writers are doing a disservice to her as much as Jon, Dany and Jaime. Sansa is NOT being smart – she is alienating the woman who is determined to destroy her true enemy – Cersei. The smart thing to do would be to ally herself and THEN play her games to get what she wants – once Dany trusts and listens to her. Instead, she seems ungrateful, spoiled and like a woman who cannot befriend other women.
        I’m so disappointed in what the writers are doing to get to the end. So many characters – years of dialogue and action – are sacrificed to expedite this story and it’s so frustrating to watch. It’s like we are supposed to forget everything that came before. Example: Season 7 Sansa telling Jon to give the northern houses to the lords that were loyal to him. Season 8 Sansa looks appalled when Dany does that by giving Storms End to Gendry. WTH is up with this writing?!?

      • delphi says:

        The Free Folk subReddit is clamoring for a Tormund/Ghost spin-off. I’d watch the hell out of that.

      • mrsodie says:

        Littlefinger told her “Everybody is your enemy. Everybody is your friend” and she only heard the first part. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, baby girl.

    • 10KTurtle says:

      Didn’t Tyrion already inadvertently reveal Euron is not the father by knowing about the pregnancy even though he hasn’t seen Cersei since she hooked up with Euron? Or did she miscarry Jaime’s baby and now this new one is Euron’s? Or is it some kind of Qyburn-zombie-baby? The writing is really getting rough here. Also, I don’t fault Dany for going “mad” now- Cersei just killed he dragon-child and her best friend right in front of her.

    • Mrs.Krabapple says:

      Sansa is an idiot. If people listened to her, they’d all be dead now (no dragon glass, no dragons, no Dany’s army). And I knew she also undermined Jon every chance she got. BUT, even I never thought Sansa would break a vow made in the Godswood, the most sacred place in Winterfell, in all of what, 15 minutes? So now she’s not just an idiot, but a full on traitor. Sure, she’ll probably end up on the throne in the end because the writing for the show is cr@p. And dumb, selfish people who don’t care who they betray ending up thriving (like Cersie). But seriously, if this is the type of ending they’re going for, why bother? Just leave Cersie on the throne. Why have any characters try to fight for what is right? These 8 years will have been for nothing.

  2. Anna nuttall says:

    So sad about Missandei death. I never imagine her beheaded by Cersi guard. Also so sad how she started her life in chains and then died in chains.
    Oh, Dany losing another dragon. My god did not see that coming. Is this all part of Dany downfall and how she might die at the end.
    Couldn’t sleep after seeing this week episode.
    I’m looking forward to the epic battle scene next week.

    • Megan says:

      The way the show is dispatching all of the POC is really disturbing.

      • Lala11_7 says:

        About as disturbing as the show not really having 3D POC characters anyway…not even Messandei & Grey Worm was really fleshed out…that writers room on the show REALLY lacked…

        Shading……

    • AryasMum says:

      I read a spoiler about Missandei’s death and didn’t believe it. Now I’m horrified by another spoiler I keep reading, which is:

      spoiler
      spoiler
      spoiler

      Jon killing Dany.

      • Arpeggi says:

        I mean, it’s kind of expected, no?

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        @Arpeggi,

        Completely. I said this to the Mr. last night, and he agreed, citing that I had called Sharp Objects accurately.

      • AryasMum says:

        There will supposedly be a shocking death, and I’ve felt it will be Tyrion who will betray the Starks (although it’s looking more like Dany). That makes sense to me story wise. Having Jon murder Dany just doesn’t work for me. Nothing bitter sweet – pure bitter.

      • ME says:

        Yep – someone posted it on Twitter under #GOTSpoilers. Actually sounds like spoilers/leaks for the next 2 episodes. I personally really like spoilers and like the proposed end BUT the person should’ve probably hidden it better. Hope it’s accurate too.

      • Nibbi says:

        I never would have believed the Missandei thing had I heard that before- it was just so out of left field. So I don’t even know anymore…

        Still… STILL… I just can’t see Jon killing Dany. It’s completely beyond the scope of his character. How would he do it, with his hands? Jon? WTF. I think he’ll turn away from her eventually, betray her, sure, if “it’s the right thing to do,” all that. But KILL her? no way.
        Varys maybe could, tho. Poison or something.

    • Mel says:

      Same! The dragon dying just broke my heart! It was horrible, at that moment I was glad Ghost was at least safe away in the north even after that ridiculous lack of goodbye from Jon. As for Missandei, idk, I think after Cersei told her to say her last words, I would have jump to my death instead and not let them do it. What would you guys have done? Also her last words, what she telling Dany to just burn it all?

      • Turtledove says:

        “Cersei told her to say her last words, I would have jump to my death instead and not let them do it. What would you guys have done? Also her last words, what she telling Dany to just burn it all?”

        Ooooh…that would have been good. To have her scream “Dracarys” and jump…to rob Cersei of that kill.

        I am not sure if her saying “dracarys” was her her way of saying “Burn it all” or if it was just like…her proclaiming her undying loyalty to her queen. Sort of like a battle cry, “Towanda!” etc. Both explanations are pretty similar.

      • Megan says:

        She should have thrown her chains around Cersei’s neck and then jumped.

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        Yup, gotta agree with Megan. Missandei was a dead woman. The best she could have done is grab Cersie and jump.

      • 10KTurtle says:

        @Megan: YES! I was wishing she had jumped (or not died at all!) but I like this even better!

  3. Lex says:

    Lolol at Euron being such a dunce thinking she knows she is preg so quick and it’s his bahahhahhaha

    • Ainsley7 says:

      He was looking at Cersei a little confused when Tyrion started talking about the baby though. He’s probably going to confront her about it and I don’t see that going well for Cersei at all. The only reason that he hasn’t just killed her is that he wants a kid with her.

    • Mia4s says:

      Oh but I’m pretty sure he just did the math. 😁 How would Tyrion know? Tyrion may have inadvertently foiled Cersei right there. Euron is proud, arrogant, and and an idiot. He will NOT deal well with being played like this.

      • ByTheSea says:

        I don’t know. I can see Euron playing along and pretending he thinks the kid is his, all while plotting how to kill Cersei and the kid at some later point and take the throne for himself. The worst thing she could’ve done was lay down with that dog; the fleas she’s going to get are epic.

      • kacy says:

        Yep

      • Arpeggi says:

        @ByTheSea: agreed! I called this pulling a Ramsey: let the heir be seen and then let it be know that he and the mother died accidentally…

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        @ByTheSea-

        This. Euron will not go quietly.

      • Megan says:

        Euron is a monster in the books. He is ruthless, violent, has some sort of ability to control the wind and a horn that can control dragons. It’s a shame they made him into a cartoon villain in the show because it really undersells the mistake Cersei made by joining forces with him.

  4. Char says:

    I started watching the show because of the dragons, it was fun, but it has always been so poorly written. If we compare this end of the saga to Endgame, just in therms of plot and main characters, it’s obvious the GoT writers lost their hand a long time ago.
    You wanna build Daenerys as crazy, ok, but it’s not what seven seasons showed, as it’s been obvious that Jon is terrible at decision making. At this point, I just feel it’s three episodes too long. If they solved the Night King in one, we don’t need three to watch Drogon burning shit down and Arya killing Cersei.

    • Lex says:

      You lost me at endgame. No thanks.

      • Jess says:

        Agreed. I watched endgame yesterday as well and I enjoyed it but hello plot holes, laughable plot holes!

      • Char says:

        @Lex I’m referring to at least the attempt that was made in Endgame to close the plot holes, albeit it’s obvious some were left behind and the fact that the main characters got their arc finished in some good way. In GoT they aren’t even trying to close the plot holes and I think some characters are getting an end that wasn’t worked through their arc.

      • M.A.F. says:

        All Endgame did was open more plot holes, not close them.

      • fiona says:

        I think a lot of people just don’t understand the MCU. There really weren’t many plot holes in Endgame, you guys need to read the extensive articles about the subject

    • ReginaGeorge says:

      It’s been hinting at this for a while. Even in the books. There are entire reddit threads that deal with book spoilers dedicated to pointing out Dany’s descent.

      Aslo, Endgame totally lost me with the terrible time travel plot holes. It was a joke. The movie was entertaining and had its “wow” moments, but I wouldn’t put it above Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity Wars, Ragnarock etc.

      • broodytrudy says:

        I think you’ve hot the nail on the head, and i think that the book vs show thing is one of the biggest problems. We’ve had A LOT of clues that Dany is going bsc, in the show, but especially in the books. But the inability to bridge the book characters and the tv characters is creating some discontent. Because people aren’t book readers, they of course don’t know how Euron hid the ships, and that he is legit the biggest BA on the seas so of course he could take down a dragon pretty easily.

      • Alissa says:

        I don’t think there actually were a lot of time travel plot holes in Endgame? Every time someone time travels, it’s an alternate timeline, not a time loop. So nothing anyone does in the new timeline affects the old one until they go back to the old timeline.

        Cap went to a different timeline, lived there until he was an old man, and then time travelled back to his original timeline. They had to restore the Infinity Stones and Thor’s Hammer back to when they were originally taken so that those timelines weren’t changed by important things missing – ie. it cut off the alternate timeline that taking them would have created. (Whether I think this is actually possible is a different story.)

        I dunno, it seems fairly straightforward to me but maybe I’m missing something.

        (Also sorry, I don’t mean to threadjack.)

    • Turtledove says:

      I am often reluctant to complain too much about choices that writers make. I think often, when “we” do that, it is more a matter of certain things not going how “we” would prefer. Like if a character chooses one partner over another, and “we” were shipping the other.

      But DAMN. Some of the writing here has plot holes a GD dragon could fly through.

      Dany is up in the air and can’t SEE a fleet of enemy ships that are THAT close to her ships? I mean, sure, none of us were expecting Euron, or the weapon that killed Rheagel. But wouldn’t she have MAYBE seen something??? Also, once the dragon went down…why the hell didn’t she fly Drogon straight up…very high, out of reach of the spears, and then come BEHIND them and burn that entire fleet? Those were the very frustrated thoughts running through my head as I watched.

      I hope that Euron WAS doing the math when Tyrion mentioned the baby. I did not think he looked like he was thinking anything…but that WOULD make sense.

      I still don’r see Dany as going mad, not in the typical sense. I see more as she has been after this for SO long, and she has fought so many battles, and lost so much, and now that it is within her grasp…she is just impatient and just wants it done. It is making her act dickish and very unreasonable for sure….but I don’t necessarily get “insanity” . Though, I will not be at all surprised if that is where they go with this. It would be so much more subtle if they just left it as, “the desire for absolute power corrupts”. She even said last night “I am here to rid them of tyrants”. Well dummy, if you go in and kill all those innocents at KL *just* to get rid of Cersei and take the throne…you ARE a flipping tyrant. I don’t think she needs to go all “Mad King Batshit”, just being a douche that doesn’t care about her people is enough.

      Honestly, I have no idea how it will all end…and that is in part because I don’t trust the writers to come up with something great, and fear that it will just be something predictable.

    • isabelle says:

      If you believe they have shown Dany to be “sane” for 7 seasons you have been watching another show. She is erratic, vengeful, greedy for the throne and cared for no one other than Jorah. Se loved him simply because he was was completely devoted to her. The Throne is her only goal and nothing else.She was never good. It is mind boggling the audience didn’t see it.

      • Algernon says:

        There are several plot threads that have me thinking people are watching something else entirely.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        People can be mercurial, vengeful, and greedy without being crazy. Sometimes an asshole is just an asshole.

      • isabelle says:

        She isn’t crazy, well as last episode she wasn’t crazy. A highly manipulative conquer but of last episode she isn’t crazy. Yet anyway.

    • Shiba says:

      Jaime will kill Cersei.

      • Andrea says:

        I hope so! He has shown the most character growth out of any of the characters. I’d hate it all to be for naught!

  5. Valois says:

    This is all way too rushed. Dany‘s implied descent into madness is all „tell don’t show“ (tell as in suddenly everyone around her is convinced she is nuts without her having done anything that would provoke such a reaction from her closest advisors), Euron and his invisible armada showing up out of a sudden again, Tyrion turning from a smart guy into an oblivious naive man, crucial scenes like Sansa and Arya finding out about Jon‘s parentage not being shown (again, tell don’t show)

    Martin was right when he said he expected the show to run for more than 8 seasons. HBO was right when they wanted 10 seasons. This is all way too rushed and D&D are cramming development of 30 episodes into 10.

    This is not good. And if the leaks are to be believed it’s only gonna get worse

    • FHMom says:

      I agree it’s way too rushed and characters are starting to just fall apart. I mean, I love that Brienne and Jaime got together, but would she really cry and beg him to stay?

      • Chlo says:

        After the Bron scene, I was like “wtf?” And my husband said “they just rewrote Bron’s character.” Bron was always out for himself but he had a heart underneath! I love Bron, and found the writing unsettling. Same for Brienne and Jaime and etc. Some character writing is totally falling apart.

      • Mia4s says:

        “I love that Brienne and Jaime got together, but would she really cry and beg him to stay?”

        In a show written by hack male writers who of course naturally believe every strong woman just needs to get some to loosen up? Of course she would.

      • ByTheSea says:

        Well, she’s loved him for a long time already, so this is everything she ever wanted (being knighted and getting the cool guy) and then it just goes “poof.” I would cry, too!

      • Arpeggi says:

        I’d cry if someone dumped me for their sister! Although, I don’t think he’s leaving to get with her, I truly believe he’s going south to kill her. She’s hateful, he gets it, he loves her, but she’s not good for the realm. And by killing her, he knows he’s going to die too

      • Myrtle says:

        I don’t believe Jaime is going south to serve at Cersei’s side, either. He just wants people to think that’s his motivation—even Brienne, although he knew it would hurt her terribly. But: it’s only if EVERYONE thinks and believes Jaime wants to “be with” Cersei will he be able to get close enough to Cersei…to kill her.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        @Mia4S,

        They turned Brienne of Tarth, Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, into a Mary Sue.

      • AryasMum says:

        Amoral Bronn becomes a hero, and Dany, who’s always had compassion and empathy, is villainized. Makes sense in the boys’ writing room, I guess.

      • Turtledove says:

        I think Jaime is going to fight Cersei, not join her and he said what he said because he worried Brienne would follow him. (Which, I am not sure she would….I would expect her to stay and protect Sansa, but at this point, Sansa is pretty damn safe at Winterfell…so)

        I wanted Brienne and Jaime to get together, but that all seemed so thrown together nd just like, expected, last night. I think it would have been better if they did NOT have sex, and instead, said a lot of heartfelt things and had an awesome kiss. (I swear I Am not a prude, I just think Brienne is old fashioned and feel like “my” way is more her)

      • sassafras says:

        I think Brienne was crying because she knows that Jaime is going to die. She said, “Kings Landing is going to be destroyed.” She knows he’s going off to sacrifice himself and she can’t go with him to help. I didn’t get a “oh baby please don’t leave me” vibe.

      • Algernon says:

        How is Bronn a hero? He took Tyrion up on his offer to “double it” if anyone ever paid Bronn to kill him. That entire scene was Bronn bargaining for better than Cersei’s deal, and I, for one, believed him when he said he would find Tyrion and/or Jaime after the battle and expect his “payment”…or else. I did not see Bronn being heroic at all. He has always been a sell-sword looking for better and better deals.

      • A.Key says:

        She knows he’s going to his death and she loves him, why wouldn’t she beg him to stay? Anyone would do the same for someone they love. Loving someone and crying for them doesn’t make you any less strong and fierce. On the contrary, only psychos have no emotions and never care about anything or anyone.

    • Megan says:

      This episode is so messy. The dialogue was terrible the fast cut to scene after scene gave me whiplash. Such a disappointing end to the series.

    • Char says:

      I would go nuts either if I had listened to Tyrion all those seasons and not unleashed the fury of the dragons upon Cersei to just wait and loose my dragons and worst, see people turning on me over a man and unexplained claims of crazy.

    • Ainsley7 says:

      D&D got bored with the show when no one liked their Dorne plot. They started out wanting to be faithful to the books. Their egos started getting the best of them when people liked some of their changes better than the books. Then Dorne plot happened and it was ridiculously bad. Their egos couldn’t take it. They want to just wrap it up and move on. There’s a good reason that they aren’t attached to any of the future GOT related shows as well. Martin doesn’t want them to be.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        Yes, they only really did well when they stuck to the source material. What they did that was great was to edit out some of Martin’s more tedious, drawn-out stuff. There was much more boring Dorne and Iron Islands content in the novels. They did get arrogant. Being a good editor of someone else’s stories does not make you a good storyteller.

    • Susan says:

      100% agree. Everyone is running around spewing treason against Danaerys, calling her Mad Queen, and she hasn’t even done a thing yet! Where is this seeding of her madness? And don’t tell me “Oh, she burned the Tarlys!” Because despite the show trying to tell us this is madness, it’s just normal, end of battle behavior in Westeros. If you lose, you kneel or you die. MEN in the series have been making tough decisions to uphold law, order and honor, including executing people (*cough* Ned, Robb AND Jon), and no one was hand wringing and worrying about their descent into madness.

      • ByTheSea says:

        The whole Mad Queen angle is odd to me, because if anyone is crazy, it’s Cersei and Robert Baratheon before her. And Frey and Euron (who threw his brother off a bridge to his death). Sure, Dany is using fire as her method of execution, but kings/leaders have been killing dissenters from the beginning of the show. And the Tarlys were disrespectful, to say the least. I don’t blame her for roasting them.

        Whether she’d make a good leader or not is questionable (I say not), but not because she’s demonstrably “mad.”

      • Mara says:

        ByTheSea – should people really be executed for being disrespectful? I know the Tarlys did more than that but Dany’s also forgiven more than that. Why not throw them in jail for a bit and see if they’re willing to change their minds and bend the knee?
        I’m not saying Dany’s worse that the other Kings and Queens we’ve seen in this series. She isn’t. But she has made some unnecessarily brutal decisions.

      • ByTheSea says:

        Mara – Yes, you need to kill off dissenters, especially if they’re from wealthy families and could “infect” other families to withhold support and funding. The Tarlys had to go.

      • Veronica S. says:

        He literally betrayed Olenna Tyrell and then sided with her enemy. What exactly is she supposed to do? He’s already proven himself untrustworthy. She gave him a choice, and he chose war. His destruction is exactly what happens when you miscalculate and choose your allies poorly. Too bad. I’m tired of his death being treated as some moral breaking point when he had already cast the die on his own fate.

      • Megan says:

        The Tarlys wanted to play in the game of thrones. You win or you die. They lost, they died. It’s been true for everyone who wants a piece of it.

    • NOTus says:

      please delete.

      • aiobhan says:

        You need to look up what impulsive means.

        Nothing about that was impulsive. She gave them a choice and they foolishly chose death.

    • Becks1 says:

      Yeah…..I’m not a dany fan (and have been vocal about that here before) but they are doing her character a disservice. Dany from last night’s episode and Dany from last season aren’t really that different, so why are tyrion and varys all “oh no, we cant follow her, WHAT DO WE DO NOW.”

      I do think the show has been trying for a while to get us to the point of dany going mad, but they have been too overhanded with it.

    • 10KTurtle says:

      I’m glad I’m reading these theories now, because last night I thought Jaime was just being a di*k. I hope y’all are right about him plotting to kill Cersei and trying to keep Brienne from following him.

      • Valois says:

        He’s still a d*ck if that’s his plan because he shouldn’t have had sex with her then. He’s going to die and she’s going to think that the first impulse of the man she loved after having sex with her was going back to his psycho sister.

  6. I Didn't Do It says:

    Poor Ghost. He’s all mangled and fought so hard and then abandoned.

    Poor Brienne. Jamie should have left her be. He gave her hope then broke her heart.

    Finally a Sansa and Hound scene.

    I really do not like Euron. Don’t like how he gets right in your face and his mouth is always open. Maybe just me, but he really grates.

    Dany is going to not take any advice and she will go on a rampage. I do think Varys will try and take her out.

    I was hoping Missendi (sp) would have reached around Cersei’s neck with her bound hands and jumped taking Cersei with her. Don’t know if she had enough space inside the chains but I was willing her to try.

    • Bex says:

      See, I think every line in Jaime and Brienne’s parting speech was careful misdirection. Jaime never once confirms he’s going to fight for Cersei, that’s Brienne’s assumption he neatly sidesteps. Then he does exactly what he did when he threatened Edmure Tully to end the siege of Riverrun- lean into his past monstrosities and genuine self loathing to great effect. He looked pretty tortured. And it worked, because Brienne didn’t try and follow him.

      He only decided to leave when news that Cersei was *winning* arrived. He knows she put a bounty on his head. Why would she need his help? I don’t think he’s gone back to be with Cersei- I think he’s fully wise to what he’s enabled and has gone to try and stop it. King’s Landing is still rigged with wildfire. Brienne and Tyrion won’t be safe if she wins. It’s a suicide mission IMO.

      Boo to Missandei dying like that. Fridging the only WOC to send another woman into a mad spiral with little build up is trash writing.

      • IlsaLund says:

        To use the loss of her two most trusted advisors…the two who have been with her the longest (Jorah and Missandei) to push the “ Dany is descending into madness” narrative is just terrible writing. Just like using everyone around her to convince the viewers that Sansa is the smartest and most cleverest person on the show….rather than actually demonstrating that through Sansa’s actions.

        Honestly, if I were Dany, I’d be pissed off and mad as hell. She sails to Westeros with an armada and 3 dragons and could have easily taken the Iron Throne. Instead she listens to Tyrion’s dumb advice, loses allies and fights in the process. Then loses a dragon and half her army in fighting for the North and they still shun her. She should have taken Cersei out when she first had the chance.

      • Lizzie says:

        i agree that jaime is on a suicide mission. i think the showrunners will stupidly destroy the character of all the women in the story but they will never let the newly heroic jaime fall so from grace after he has redeemed himself.

      • Ellaus says:

        @bex. I think the same, Jaime realizes that Cersei is a monster and his responsability in facilitating actions. Brienne helped him know how capable of good and honorable things he is. He marches south to take her down, and she doesn’t want him to die.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        He’s going back to try to kill Cersei (more redemption arc), but she will kill him instead. Brienne is dead-ended in Winterfell.

      • sassafras says:

        I read the scene with Brienne and Jaime exactly the same. He heard the news about the dragon and thought, “F**k, I’m going to have to do this.”

      • kacy says:

        You guys need to watch the behind the episode. They say Jaime has backslid.

    • EMc says:

      Me too, IDDI! I was yelling “take her with you!”

    • Erinn says:

      I kind of think Ghost leaving is the best for him. Now maybe we won’t see him die.

      • ByTheSea says:

        I think Jon will reunite with Ghost in the end beyond the wall (after Dany dies). That was some heavy-handed foreshadowing with Tormund telling him that he “belongs” beyond the wall, or something.

      • Myrtle says:

        I hope so, too. Dispensing with Ghost like that felt so cheap, sad and shabby. Meanwhile, how about Bronn just striding in on Jaime & Tyrion with a loaded CROSSBOW in his hand? How could that even happen? Perhaps the worst mangling of a character so far. That scene totally sucked. *facepalm*

        I’m also heartbroken for Dragon Death #2. It’s hard to care about the show anymore. I’m just watching for the acting at this point, and to see how it ends.

  7. Jenns says:

    I’m so glad we’re done with The Long Minute so we can get back to politics where a smirking Queen and a stupid pirate execute a woman of color while in chains.

    • Susan says:

      Here, here. All hail the stupidity.

      Also, so glad D&D felt the need to have some light ribbing of Sansa’s trauma by the Hound while she simultaneously reinforces their belief that a rape makes for a strong woman.

      • CharliePenn says:

        Susan yes! This was the only thing that really bothered me.

        To me, this show is fun. I appreciate the huge amount of effort that goes into it. I’ve always found some of the writing to be mellow dramatic and ridiculous, I’m not that pressed about it all. I just enjoy the show for what it is at this point and I don’t get offended about bad writing or strange plot maneuvers etc.

        But I was realllllllyyyyyy unhappy and bothered with Sansa saying that, like you said implying that rape made her stronger. That’s one area where I want the writers to be extremely delicate, careful, and AWARE of what they truly imply here. They let me down big time with that.

      • Susan says:

        charliePenn, sadly Sansa’s lines about the rape improving her from her old, “little bird” days is just a reiteration of what D&D said in their Behind the Episode talk back when Sansa was raped, and I believe in press interviews. They actually believe this! For all intents and purposes, that Sansa’s rape was needed to change her for the better (when tbh, nothing was wrong with her to begin with). They got a HUGE amount of backlash at the time for it, but I guess it wasn’t mainstream backlash. I still thought they would have been smart enough to learn their lesson and to shy away from that implication again but they literally double downed on it. Ugh, gross, puke.

  8. Jess says:

    I’m unhappy with this episode, mainly Ghost being shipped off with Tormund! Why didn’t they at least show Jon saying goodbye to him for crying out loud?!? He’d be happy by Jon’s side or in Winterfell protecting his family!

    And why not show Sansa and Arya finding out Jon’s a Targaryen, I yelled when they cut away from that scene.

    So many missed opportunities in this episode, and too rushed.

    I feel like a brat for criticizing two episodes in a row, but honestly I’m disappointed, this show has been amazing from the start and now something has changed. I’ve been upset or heartbroken with episodes before but never disappointed like this.

    • Erinn says:

      My thing is – why was the story drug out for so long only to rush it out in 6 episodes. It’s almost like they anticipated having more time to flesh things out and now are in panic mode.

      • InVain says:

        That’s exactly how it feels for me too. I guess I just expected too much – they clearly aren’t capable of wrapping this up nicely for fans of the show or books. Ugh. After last night I’m going into the final two episodes with seriously lowered expectations.

    • InVain says:

      You shouldn’t feel like a brat. If you’d dedicated this much time (and or money to HBO) on a series… you can expect more. Last night was wholly disappointing.

    • Becks says:

      I agree….how could he just give Ghost away after everything they went through! And not even a goodbye, it was heartbreaking. Jon Snow is dead to me for abandoning his wolf like that!

  9. Lisa says:

    This episode was so disappointing. Like the writers were rushing through everything to get to some unknown plot point. And yes, of course, the Black woman dies.

    I never wanted Brienne with Jamie. I like Jamie but he is too weak for her. And of UGH she picks the pretty boy. Tormund loved and wanted her for exactly who and what she was. He did from the start. And the whole they slept together was a bore. Just so uneventful. You saw way more passion with the other couples. Then, of course, he goes back to his sister. She could have had some really hot sex with Tormund.

    Dany going nuts like The Mad King.

    Jon just letting Ghost and all the people he loves to leave with a whimper.

    I tried to avoid the spoilers since this was leaked online. But I did see a comment that this episode was disappointing. Didn’t want to believe it. But it was as so many have said. Rushed. Rushed. Rushed. Maybe they spent too much time on that blackout battle.

    • FHMom says:

      Characters acting out of character. The story needs more time. It feels so rushed. . Reminds me of the last season of LOST. They had throw away episodes and then that ending.

    • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

      It was awful. They spent 50% o the focus on establishing Danaery’s decline, and about 10% on the other storylines.

      So much misogyny and racism.

    • Algernon says:

      The rushing is what is killing me. Apparently HBO supported ten seasons, so I don’t know why we’re rushing through everything like this. I thought last season could have been ten episodes, and I feel this season could be ten episodes, too. Once they knew they were going to outpace the books (which had to be early on!), I don’t know why they didn’t sit down with GRRM and plot ten, ten episode seasons. Some of these plot points have been set up in the past (like Dany going mad), but now they’re pushing the panic button and making it happen too fast. I just wish it was paced better, like the earlier seasons.

    • kimmy says:

      “I never wanted Brienne with Jamie. I like Jamie but he is too weak for her. And of UGH she picks the pretty boy. Tormund loved and wanted her for exactly who and what she was. He did from the start. And the whole they slept together was a bore. Just so uneventful. You saw way more passion with the other couples. Then, of course, he goes back to his sister. She could have had some really hot sex with Tormund.”

      I agree with this for the most part, but I also read some interview from D&D. Tormund was never supposed to be around this long, but they extended his scenes b/c he was such a fan fav. Not sure what GRRM had/has in store for Tormund, but I can only assume that he’s not involved in the major remaining plot points. Maybe that’s why they sent him away w/o any affection from Brienne?? Jamie clearly has something left to do. I hope Brienne may as well, but not sure what that would be except guarding Sansa.

  10. IlsaLund says:

    As D&D we’re ready to move on from GOT (and it really shows in the writing and how rushed the show is), HBO should have tried to find a way to continue without them. GOT really needed at least 2 more seasons to be done properly.

    • Turtledove says:

      “GOT really needed at least 2 more seasons to be done properly.”

      Exactly. I remember the earliest seasons when I first started watching and there were a lot more lead characters as they hadn’t died yet (lol) And I would spend half the episode trying to remember who was who. All those burly men with beards in castles etc. So much dialogue. Most episodes would have like, one major thing happen…maybe two. And they had a gazillion characters. Now there are approximately 1/3 the characters, and there are a million MAJOR scenes each episode. We have seen 4 episodes, so many have died, so many have hooked up, reunited etc etc. It is SO rushed, particularly compared to earlier seasons.

  11. Susan says:

    The CUT in the scene with the Starks is in keeping with other scenes where they cut away from the really interesting, juicy parts. Like Episode 2 when Dany and Sansa were having their talk and finally got to the important stuff, only for them to cut away when someone knocks on the door. Or the scene when Jon was telling Dany about his parentage, only to be interrupted by the battle to come.

    Basically, D&D have all the time in the world to waste on Bronn in a brothel or Tyrion/Varys dick and eunuch jokes, but not to flesh out the scenes actually important to plot and character development. My guess is that they couldn’t figure out how to write it well so they just punted and we are left with all these important scenes weirdly truncated.

    • Candikat says:

      Or the scene in Ep #2 when Tyrion sits down with Bran and says “Can you explain this whole 3 eyed raven thing? We’ve got all night.” And then CUT to Tyrion leading a drinking game with everyone but Bran.

  12. Chilicat says:

    I don’t think Jamie is leaving to be with Cersie, I think his intention is to kill her or reason with her. I think he knows that he will probably die when he gets there and that’s why he didn’t ask Brianne to come with him. He knows that if he told her his real plan she would want to come and fight with him. That’s the way I took that scene.

    • Sarah says:

      Yes, this exactly.

    • LoonyTunes says:

      Agree. He is the kingslayer and we know that he put the realm over the whim of the king in that case, even though it could have cost him his life. He’ll do it again.

    • Susan says:

      That’s a distinct possibility but it’s still bad writing. There is no coherent reason for Jaime to make up a big lie to Brienne about being an evil person if it is his intent to take care of the Cersei problem. He could just tell Brienne that, they are on the same side in that event, and Brienne would probably still plead with him not to go and risk himself which still gives us the drama of his departure scene. THAT would actually make some sense but there is no reason for Jaime to lie as he might be doing to fit with the theory he’s going to kill Cersei.

      Well, I take that back. There *is* a reason, but I don’t consider “because it will be so shocking and a great twist in episode 8 and that’s all that matters” to be a good enough reason to throw away rational character behavior.

      • broodytrudy says:

        I thought it was pretty clear he was going back to “save her”, and will likely inadvertently kill her in the process.

      • Susan says:

        Well, people really want to see the Valonqar prophecy come true and an inadvertent killing of Cersei by Jaime is going to disappoint those people. I personally think Jaime fulfilling that prophecy by intentionally murdering her is too on-the-nose…so of course it will probably happen.

      • ByTheSea says:

        He couldn’t tell her because she would insist on going with him to help his mission. If she’s with him, he’d be more reticent to do anything, as he wouldn’t want to get her killed. He had to break her heart into a million pieces so she would let him go.

      • Skeptical says:

        I think that this story line is like the usual story of bad boy working towards redemption having to do “one last job,” to get out.

        I think his rehabilitation means a huge pangs of conscience for his past misdeeds. He can’t just move on with Brienne. He’s got to confront his past and Cersei.

    • Pineapple says:

      I think his plan is to go back and kill Cersei. He knows he can get close to her. He is The Kingslayer … after all. This is almost his destiny.

    • Arpeggi says:

      Yep! That’s exactly what I thought. Going alone would also make it easier for him to reach Cersei as she’d never let him close to her if he brought his new GF alone. Plus it’s a suicide mission; he doesn’t want to risk her to be harmed too

    • Dee Kay says:

      Yes. Either he’s riding to KL deliberately to try to stop Cersei and possibly kill her, or he’s going to talk to her and try to “save” her, who knows — maybe tell her to sneak out of the city and run away with him, maybe tell her to surrender, either way, to save the baby — and then he will fail, and end up having to kill her b/c Cersei is cray-cray and will never ever stop wreaking havoc.

  13. Patty says:

    Dany was resting her men, she was headed back to Dragonstone.

    This episode proves how dumb Sansa is too. I know that people for stan for her but she totally broke her promise to Jon. Lucky for her, this nonsensical plot has Tyrion tell Varys and the latter immediately starts scheming against Dany. But did it occur to Sansa that it could have put a target on Jon’s back? Or what would happen if Cersei found out? Or some other Northerner who likes Jon Snow because they believe him to be the bastard son of Ned Stark – they might feel differently if they found out his real parentage.

    And nah, Dany should have listened to Oleana. Things have gone shit for Dany because she’s been listening to Tyrion.

    Also, Jon Snow, continues to know nothing. After last nights episode I’m convinced that the spoilers that are out are true and the ending will be stupid and a total bro-fest.

    • Turtledove says:

      “This episode proves how dumb Sansa is too. I know that people for stan for her but she totally broke her promise to Jon.”

      As soon as Jon made them promise, I looked at my husband and said “I believe Arya, but I don’t know about Sansa.” And it only took her what an hour to blab? I like Sansa most of the time, but the writing for her is all over the place. She has been a great warden of the north, and has seen some major shit, and she knows exactly how to play the damn game…she was taught by the expert, after all. And then they write her as this whiny little brat at times. Very annoying. There is a way to show her as distrusting Dany and sticking to her guns about wanting the north to be independent, WITHOUT acting like a spoiled little “mean girl”.

      • Veronica S. says:

        There’s also the fact that the narrative is outright ignoring the fact that Sansa’s independence and safety was fundamentally won at the expense of Dany’s troops. You want to be independent, fine, but the narrative needs to stop ignoring the fact that foreign troops died in service of that independence. It just makes Sansa come across as Cersei-lite, willfully expending the lives of others for her own gain with not acknowledgement of that sacrifice. How is that supposed to make me view her as the better option to Dany? What is she hoping to happen with Cersei and Dany – that they wipe each other out, leaving the North free? So, what, the rest of the world falls into chaos again, f*ck all of these POC who died for her kingdom, as long as the North survives? What kind of gross direction is that for her character?

  14. Tiffany27 says:

    They’re going to make Jon have to kill Dany aren’t they?

    • Jenns says:

      FTR, I don’t want him to kill Dany. But if he did, at least he’ll do something? What has Jon done this season other than yell at a dragon and be a d**k to Ghost?

    • broodytrudy says:

      Yep, and everyone who has criticized me for saying that can suck it.

    • Susan says:

      Pretty much

    • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

      Yes. One dragon left, two dragon riders. Writers are clearly lazily, misogynistically putting Dany on the crazy train, and making her paranoid while showing everyone’s undying loyalty to the haver of the cock.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        @NotSoSocial, and Jon is the cock-haver with the absolute worst judgement and a complete lack of understanding of what motivates human beings and their behavior. Jon cannot read people or situations well. Terrible trait for a ruler. Regardless of his lineage, he was raised by Ned, and is truly Ned’s son in all of the worst ways- his naïveté, his rigid moral code, and his compulsive need to tell the truth at the worst possible time. It’s astonishing that anyone stans for a Jon as this great hero. He’s only ever successful in spite of himself, and by the grace of more intelligent women.
        TL;DR- Jon is the worst.

  15. Digital Unicorn says:

    The plot has been going this way for Dany for a while but they do seem to be rushing it. Cersei knows what she is doing and is so far proving to be the better game player than Dany, thou I did think Tyrion’s speech did get to her. Deep down I think she does care about her brothers, family was always important to her and the 3 of them are all that is left of the Lannisters.

    I think Missandi’s last words was not just a destroy them all, I think it was a way to telling Dany about the wildfire that’s hidden around the city.

    I guess it will come down to which Queen burns Kings Landing and the innocent people to the ground first, Cersei or Dany. Leaving the plot for a typical ending of the white man coming to the rescue and cleaning up after the crazy women. If true then that lazy story telling from D&D.

    Sansa and Tyrion’s conversation around Dany was interesting, Sansa knows Dany is a tyrant and I think Dany herself is coming to that realisation. I think she is beginning to see that Daario was right, she’s a conqueror not a ruler.

    As I said before the plot is setting things up for a Jon and Dany showdown, with Tyrion and Varys setting it up.

    Also, I didn’t see Jaime running back to Cersei coming – what is he playing at?

    • Bex says:

      Have they retconned Dany knowing about the wildfire? Because she should do- Tyrion told her in S6.

      Idk why Tyrion’s constantly appealing to Cersei’s love of her children, she was super cold about Tommen dying and fully prepared to let the AOTD come for her new baby (is she actually pregnant? It’s been months) if she could sit on the throne for a little while longer.

      Jaime’s running back to deal with his Mad King 2.0 situation IMO. He’s been here before.

      • Susan says:

        Yeah, it’s a complete reversal of any character arc for Jon and Tyrion.

        And frankly any burning of Kings Landing at this point is kinda just..boring, I guess. They wasted their powder on having this being shocking and appalling by having Cersei do the EXACT SAME THING a couple of seasons ago. And yet, they have Cersei spouting off about how the people of Westeros would riot if Dany kills a bunch of innocent people. The people didn’t seem to care that much when Cersei blew up the Sept so I don’t see why it would be such a big issue if Dany did it now.

    • broodytrudy says:

      Yep, we have been talking about Dany going Mad Queen for seasons now, and just because people don’t like it doesn’t mean the seeds weren’t there. Gotten bugger since her Westeros entrance too. The North hates her, everyone ignored her at the party, she has minimal allies, lost her army, lost jorah, lost dragons, lost Missandei, it’s been glaring for a while now.

      This is so dumb. Bran is gonna end up on the throne and Jon is going to sulk off somewhere to whine by the end of the show, mark my words.

    • Seán says:

      Re: Missandei warning Dany about wildfire. Please, the show does not have that much nuance since it outpaced / diverged from the books.

      Instead, they had one of the sweetest characters in the show tell a woman with burgeoning madness to burn a full a city of innocents. Plus it was pretty contrived how Missandei got captured anyway!

    • Algernon says:

      No caping for D&D who can’t write women to save their own lives, but they are following GRRM’s blue print. He told them the ending. They’re not inventing this out of whole cloth, GRRM has some responsibility here.

      • Seán says:

        They may be following George R.R. Martin’s blueprint but the characters are not going to have the same arcs as their show counterparts.

        For example, Missandei is a child in the books so there’s no Grey Worm romance. She’s also less Dany’s gal pal so Martin is unlikely to use a POC woman to spur on a contrived reason for man and white woman pain!

  16. Nona says:

    This episode was a mixed bag. The beginning moved me deeply. Jon’s speech was brilliant. But once again, so much plot-induced stupidity on the part of the characters. One example: after Rhaegal was killed, why didn’t Dany fly behind the ships and take them out?
    I’m a little sad that Brienne and Jaime had steamy sex (assuming the room was as hot as he said—or was that just a medieval pick-up line???). I liked their platonic relationship. It had tension and respect.
    I wish we would have seen Sansa’s and Arya’s reaction to Jon’s news. I wish Jon would have taken one frigging moment to say goodbye to Ghost.
    As for Dany’s character arc … yeah, they’ve been heading in that direction all season. I think the writers have talked and talked and talked about this—they have it all worked out in their heads—but what they’ve forgotten is, they haven’t brought us along. They’ve rushed the last season, and they don’t have time to convince me why everyone is suddenly doubting Dany. She hasn’t done that much wrong.

  17. ReginaGeorge says:

    I always felt Dany was not gonna end up on the throne anyway. I kept holding out hope that her better judgment would kick in and realize what Tyrion and Varys though about marrying and ruling together. But she’s way too arrogant for that. And the throne wasn’t her whole life’s mission. It was Viserys with her believing she would just been Queen regent as his wife.

    Varys has ALWAYS been about the people so his stance does not surprise me. Cersei is baiting Dany. She put al of those people inside the castle walls so that Dany will lose her cool and rain fire on KL so that Cersei can tell everyone “I told you she was cray”. And hate her. Those scorpions all a top the castle walls and on the ships was freaking genius.

    I felt bad for Rhaegal. Lived the long night only to get ambushed steps from home at Dragonstone. It made me happy Jon left Ghost behind. I couldn’t take poor boi’s death. Though I really wish the CGI budget could have at least given us a little hug from Jon.

    Ahh Brienne. I mean I think Jaime said that to her to soften the blow of him leaving I do believe he still Doss and will always live Cersei, even though he doesn’t want to and probably hates himself for it. But he probably also knows that they are meant to die together. One of them told somebody that nothing can separate them and that they were born together and will die together.

    RIP Missandei

  18. Patty says:

    Well Kit made the mistake of saying the last season would be disappointing – he tried to cover but it was obvious he meant it. LOL.

    And no Missendei was not trying to warn anybody about wildfire. She was telling her friend to burn that place down and I hope she does and I’ll be cheering her on.

    As for Endgame, yeah it had plot holes but they managed to wrap up a multi movie multi year story in a way that stayed true to everyone’s characterization throughout previous years. There really weren’t any moments where I felt like characters weren’t being themselves or were acting in surprising ways.

    D&D have a habit of telling but not showing. It’s been a problem since season four and it’s accelerating at a rapid pace.

    • Susan says:

      Nathalie Emmanuel was explicit on this on Twitter with her “Dracarys = Burn this Bish” tweet. I didn’t see any ambiguity in the show either.

    • ReginaGeorge says:

      Re Endgame.

      They actually didn’t stay true to all of the characters. Aka Thor and his pity party. A lot of people had issues with that as well as the time travel plot holes. And that they didn’t really get the Hulk they wanted. Even though I didn’t have issue with that.

      • ByTheSea says:

        It was funny to me that they were like “if you go back to the past and change it, it doesn’t change anything, just take our word for it…” Except it would change EVERYTHING that happened past that point, hence, nothing would have happened that led to the very plot in Endgame. That was driving me nuts.

      • Veronica S. says:

        Well, they do acknowledge that it would change the timeline. It’s a major plot hurdle for Bruce getting the timestone from Swinton’s character. The reason she lets him have it is because she makes him promise to replace the time stones at the very point they rescued them, effectively resetting everything back to zero to avoid split timelines. Nothing about the future actually changed – Thanos still wipes out everybody with the snap. What they do with is reverse that with the recovered stones, defeat the invading Thanos, and then replace them back at the “trigger” points that would’ve created new timelines. Thanos is perhaps the biggest reach because that essentially creates a stable time loop, but it’s not actually a plot hole. It is explained. Whether or not you think it was reasonable is another thing lol.

      • Algernon says:

        @ByTheSea

        That is an actual theory of how time works, though. No time travel movie is ever going to be a perfect narrative seal, but Endgame uses an actual theory of time travel based on quantum mechanics. We don’t know how time works beyond our own invented framework, but the two main theories are the butterfly effect, what you’re describing, and the quantum loop, which is what Bruce outlines. In the quantum loop, time is multi-dimensional and if you travel to the past, your present becomes your past, the past your present, and any changes you make are a new future, not your original present. It’s essentially an infinite string of curly cues constantly spinning out from one another based on minute changes to the timeline. Endgame attempts to simplify the quantum loop into something digestible, but really it just points out how little we know about how time works as a stellar concept and not just the way we measure days in a straight line.

  19. grabbyhands says:

    I enjoy reading all the comments and spoiler mostly because it validates my decision to drop this show three or four seasons ago and now I am no longer invested in what happens to anyone.

    Having said that, the writers are still hacks and I feel bad for everyone that stuck with the show because it looks like they’re going to end the show doing the worst, including their old tricks of making women/poc expendable to shore up the white characters pain, especially the men.

    • Susan says:

      You were wiser than me probably. I got disillusioned at the same time as you but ended up googling to see if I was going crazy and if I was the only one feeling this way (since mainstream reviews and blogs were all cheerleading nonstop). I ended up stumbling on some really interesting, critical writers and watchers on Tumblr and sort of enjoyed watching for a couple more seasons with a critical eye along with others. At least we could ironically watch and get some laughter out of it at the very least. But now, I can’t even hate watch it, the producers have destroyed it so much. Not to mention some of the truly disturbing trends you start to pick up on with respect to character arcs for women and people of color.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        @Susan, which critical blogs do you read? I’m always in the market for well-rendered critique of the show.

    • Case says:

      Agreed! For years people have been making me feel bad for dropping this show after the second season, acting like it’s the greatest show of all time and I was crazy for missing out. And I know a lot of people enjoy it — I don’t want to discount that, good for them. But it’s clearly not so amazing these days, and it’s making me feel validated in my opinion of the show and sticking to it despite peer pressure, lol.

    • Veronica S. says:

      You are smarter than me. I decided to get back into it around season 7, and I was regretting that after the Sansa/Arya fight, but you know…I liked the Dany/Jon relationship and the potential there. Hahaha, what a mistake to give D&D even the vaguest benefit of the doubt that this wouldn’t be god awful. I just wasn’t expecting it to be that openly offensive on top of the bad writing.

    • Turtledove says:

      “because it validates my decision to drop this show three or four seasons ago and now I am no longer invested in what happens to anyone.”

      I could never do that. Once I care, I continue to care…no matter how shitty the writing gets. Same with Walking Dead. I WANT to know what happens to Michonne, Daryl and Carol and no amount of asshattery will sway me. I think you have the better deal though…leave before it goes completely to hell. lol

    • Diplomanatee says:

      I too dropped it around the Red Wedding, because the over-hyping and spoilers in headlines became unbearable to me. I mean sure, there was a time when we were preaching this show to people to get more viewers because we didn’t even know if it would get renewed for a Season 2, but after that it became too much.

      I chose to watch this season to at least find out on my terms, but holy cow most actions are completely out of character! Even having missed all those seasons there’s this feeling of “that’s odd, Tyrion was too smart to have advised this”.

      Add me to the list of people who will probably rather wait for the rest of the books than re-watch this mess.

  20. Div says:

    Ugh, I did not like this episode. It was weirdly toxic how the writers had Sansa go like “only through living through h*ll can a woman be strong.” I expected that someone was going to die from Dany’s team, that it wouldn’t just be Jorah, but Missandei deserved a better death. It would have been more fitting, imo, for Grey Worm to go out with a bang fighting, having known true love, and for Missandei to live.

    I also can’t with how this show re-writes Robert’s Rebellion. Rhaegar left his wife, his two kids, and his duties to run off with a girl betrothed to his cousin. Neither one of them tell a soul, despite Rhaegar knowing his dad is insane. But it’s all getting blamed on Robert being in love and Lyanna not loving him back, and not Rhaegar’s foolishness.

    My main issue is there really is very little reason for any of the regions to follow Jon or Dany besides the North and the Vale (and the Vale is team Sansa). So it’s hard, after all these seasons of political tension, to believe they are all just going to fall in line.

    So maybe I’m crazy, but I’m starting to wonder if Gendry and Sansa will end up on the throne or all of the regions become independent. Because with the arc they are taking Dany on I can’t see her or Jon ruling…

    • Mara says:

      Justice for Elia and her two children (can someone please bring up in the show that there already was a Prince Aegon and its as weird AF that Jon is named after his brother.)

    • Susan says:

      Div, I agree with all of what you said about this episode as well as the motivations of the people of Westeros. But my expectations of the finale are bleak based on spoilers that have now been partially confirmed. Ugh.

  21. Mgsota says:

    I groaned out loud when I saw Sam. It’s not that I don’t like him…he’s been a little bit annoying…but there is no way in hell he could/should have survived.
    Another dragon gone…I was so upset.
    Jon not saying goodbye to Ghost…wtf.
    Jamie is definitely going back to kill Cersei, not be with her.
    Tormond is my bf. I loved his lines about Winterfell being the South. And everything else he said, he’s a gem.
    Overall, very disappointing and not much hope for the last two episodes.

    • IlsaLund says:

      Still can’t figure out how Sam and Davos survived the Long Night. They both should have died.

      And just hoping Qyburn gets taken out in the best way possible.

      • ByTheSea says:

        I want Qyburn to get taken out with the dragon blaster. That would be poetic justice.

      • Lady D says:

        Euron’s fate is dragon blaster. It’s what he deserves for killing the other one. Qyburn deserves a ‘poetic death’ on an epic scale. The man is evil personified and his death should be particularly bad and slow.

      • Arpeggi says:

        I want Arya to kill Qyburn. Cersei is Jaime to kill, but Qyburn is so freaking gross, he belongs to Arya

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        Qyburn deserves some wildfire.

      • Kelly says:

        There’s enough people with enough reason and motivation who want to kill Cersei. Arya and Sansa both have good reasons to want her dead, as well as Dany. I hope that Tyrion finally sees that she has no redeeming qualities and there’s no chance for her redemption as a decent human being. Jamie seems to be on a suicide mission to take her out.

        There’s so many conflict spoilers out there, including some likely fake ones. One I’ve seen has Cersei facing a trial to determine her fate in the finale. It would be sweet to have her found guilty and her death be at the paws of Nymeria’s wolf pack.

        Lady D, I hope it’s Yara who is the one to take Euron out with one of the dragon blasters.

  22. broodytrudy says:

    Just here because my Jaime/Brienne ship has sailed and now he’s going off to destroy discount Jack Sparrow and Cersei. My boy and his golden character arc. 😭

    • Bex says:

      I still mourn for what could’ve been though. He’s a decent character in the show but just magnificent in the books. I think Nikolaj Coster-Waldau must’ve read them because he recently said he’d been arguing with the writers since S4 about still being with Cersei.

      • broodytrudy says:

        My dream has always been for him to strangle Cersei and set fire to King’s Landing. It won’t happen, but I’d love to see him have to use the same means that he executed the King 4, and had to carry that Stickman with his whole life, to save the city. It would be so wonderful and poetic, but instead I think we’re going to get Jamie dueling year on killing him, and then failing to save Cersei which leads to her death.

  23. Lightpurple says:

    Arya and the Hound are on the road together again! Seriously, I would love ten episodes of just the two of them traveling about the countryside.

    • Lucy says:

      His scenes were great. Totally looking forward to seeing more of them together!!

    • Mara says:

      Yes, GoT is at its best when its just two characters trading witty banter/experiencing character development with some picturesque N. Ireland hilly backdrop.

    • Myrtle says:

      Best part of the episode!!! I love this, too.

  24. Lizzie says:

    the writers are lazy AF.

  25. Lucy says:

    At this point I’m like JUST LET SANSA RUN THE WHOLE DAMN THING. Missandei’s death made me sick to my stomach, no joke. No one’s good enough for Ser Brienne and that’s the tea. Arya and Gendry broke my heart, but it made sense. I obviously think she loves him back, though. Maisie and Joe continue to be amazing!!!

    • Patty says:

      I have seen nothing on this that would make me think that Sansa would be a good ruler for Westeros. I know her character gets a good edit but she’s selfish and only cares about herself. Her obsession with Northern independence is because she seems to think it will protect her from the Ramsay’s of the world.

      Dany shows up with a massive army, two dragons, and you she’s screwing your brother. A wise leader would have taken that opportunity to work out special status for the North or some sort of de facto independence. Instead, Sansa antagonized Dany from start to finish for no real reason. She’s not that smart – and I’m sick of D&D telling me how smart she is instead of showing it through her actions.

      • Veronica S. says:

        Sansa was my second favorite character after Daenerys in the show. Last night’s story choices literally flipped her a 180 around into a character I metatextually loathed. I have such visceral anger about her being set up as the “rational” woman on the show because she’s not as ambitious as Dany or Cersei, partially because she credits THE MEN WHO ABUSED, RAPED, AND MANIPULATED HER as the triggers for her growth and maturation. After her character has done effectively nothing beyond starting unnecessary fights with other women for the past two seasons.

        Utterly repulsive storytelling on every level. Women can apparently only be two things in the world of D&D – Cersei-lite or fun, heroic tomboy heroes.

      • Susan says:

        The writers THINK they are writing Sansa as a smart and good character but they are failing spectacularly at it.

      • Diplomanatee says:

        GRRM must be flipping and possibly ignoring the show.

    • Loretta says:

      @Lucy
      No thanks.

  26. Loretta says:

    D&D are ruining the show and the arc of all the characters.
    The Starks seem more and more like MAGA supporters (“she isn’t one of us” thank god I would say)
    Daenerys deserved much better than this.
    Missandei death was awful.

    • Bex says:

      Yeah it’s difficult to name a single character who doesn’t change personality scene to scene or act OOC for a ‘plot twist’.

      • Susan says:

        Dang, last year we had Arya threatening to cut off her sister’s face because who doesn’t love a little girl on girl bitchiness, am I right?

  27. Mara says:

    Generally I thought that the episode was good but how on earth was Cersei supposed to hear Tyrion from all the way up on the battlements? That one piece of poor writing/direction completely took me out of the story for that whole scene.
    Poor Greyworm and Missandei – they were too good for this war.

    • ByTheSea says:

      But that’ll make Greyworm fearless again. He became “human” and therefore afraid because he loved her so much. Now, he’s back to a killing machine.

  28. Patty says:

    I agree with this writer! http://time.com/5583559/game-of-thrones-daenerys-going-mad/

    I didn’t expect Dany to end up on The IT and I honestly don’t expect there to be one. There was a way to resolve her story without making her go mad. But I guess like all women on the show who actually attempt to have agency, take control of their lives, and who have managed to have real power, she must be punished.

    A few daughter of the Mad King jokes here and there are not enough, Dany has done nothing to show that she would suddenly go mad in the span of two episodes at the end of a 74 episode run. It is beyond lazy and insulting.

    • Mara says:

      There have been a few hints along the years that this was going to be their big twist. Dany crucifying all the masters for instance. The masters were horrible people and could be argued they deserved to die but to execute them on mass in such a long drawn out and painful way was just unnecessarily brutal.
      I’ve always thought of her as a kind of Tony Blair type character, one who inspires optimism at first and is full of good intentions until they become so obsessed with defeating tyrants they don’t realise what they have become along the way.

    • Veronica S. says:

      You’ll find plenty of people trying to justify this character choice, but any argument falls flat in the face that it’s just garbage storytelling. It undermines all of the seven seasons previous to this. All of the buildup to Dany trying to restore her family’s honor and power, trying to find a place where she has agency in the world after years of abuse and poverty, trying to make the world better as a way of compensating for the chaos her father’s madness created. They could have had a provocative story here about why people like Dany are drawn to power, why they want and need it, why power is so necessary for agency – but there’s the problem right there with having white men write a story like this. They can’t empathize. They already have the power.

      But even beyond all of that, it’s the fact that she’s being set up for madness after everything we watched her go through. Having her family wiped out and murdered. Growing up in poverty and abuse. Being sexually abused by her brother and rape trafficked to a warlord. Having her entire family ripped away right as it was becoming loving AGAIN. Having her dragon “babies” killed attempting to defend the world from a threat against humanity. Losing her Dothraki troops and many of the Unsullied. Being treated as an outsider by the very Northerners she helped save. Watching her best friend get beheaded violently by a tyrant as repayment of everything she sacrificed up until this point. THAT is who you pick for your mad queen plot? That’s not a woman going mad – that’s a legitimate and justifiably enraged reaction against a cruel and brutal world! What an ugly and absolutely insidious way of conflating the violence committed by victims against the perpetrators of atrocities with the violence of the powerful and tyrannical. Just beyond infuriating.

      • Bella DuPont says:

        @ Veronica S

        I take a deep Westerosi bow 🙇‍♀️ at your answer. It captures my thoughts on this perfectly (but much better articulated!).

      • Mel says:

        Perfect answer Veronica S! thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I so wish HBO or the writers would read this blog.

      • Sayrah says:

        Yes this. It’s infuriating if this is where they’re going with Dany. Her sadness, frustration and anger are understandable and don’t add up to madness. Maybe we’ll get a last second change like with Arya and Sansa’s pivot to gang up on littlefinger.

  29. Stephani says:

    The thing that makes me mad is that if Dany had followed her instinct instead of listening to Varys and Tyiron and had immediately attacked Cersei at this time she would sit on the throne.
    She had to leave those ungrateful people in the North to their fate

    • Bella DuPont says:

      The Northern ingratitude really sets my teeth on edge. A bunch of ungrateful, backward, know-nothings.

      Meanwhile, Sansa quite literally can’t contain her jealousy anymore.
      She was Jon’s de-facto Queen and now she can’t stand seeing another woman take her place in calling the shots AND being beside Jon.

      Having said that, Jon acted like a pussy when he openly took Daenery’s side against his family in such a dickish way.

      The whole show is just pissing me off right now to be honest.

    • sunny says:

      Um… that would have been her fate as well once Winter arrived at King’s landing and she had no idea how to attack the night king. Jon for all his terrible decisions was the only one keeping it 100 on that

  30. jaylee says:

    Jaime is definitely going to KL to kill Cersei not have some loving reunion. He is the Kingslayer soon to be Queenslayer & I really dig it. Arya & the Hound left before the army &they know the castle at KL very well. Cersei said keep the gates open & they are probably already hidden inside. Dany isn’t a ruler she is a conqueror. She tried to rule Meereen & did a terrible job. She isn’t qualified. It’s not because she’s a woman it’s because she’s arrogant & without her dragons she has no power. Jon is the true heir & a natural ruler to boot. He is the song of Ice and Fire. Rheagar left his family & first wife to pursue Lyanna because he read a prophecy that their union would produce a child that would save the realms of men. Rheagar is the true MVP!

  31. Laur says:

    Listen to the women?? VARYS told her what she was doing was a mistake and she ignored him too. Now she only has one dragon and no one actually wants her on the throne… I know some say that the show is going to end the way GRRM planned to end the books but I dunno, it just doesn’t fit with his style. It’s enjoyable to watch but at this point it’s like a totally different plot.

  32. Pineapple says:

    In all honesty, I am loving waiting for the episodes and watching what happens. My heart broke at the death of Missandei but Cersei has always hated all women, herself included I think. She thinks up particularly horrid and nasty deaths for them. And I am so angry another dragon is dead.

    I am saddened by the lack of diversity in this show. I realize there could have been some amazing characters created in The Dothraki and The Unsullied. I am frustrated that Euron Greyjoy of all people is getting screen time now. Who on earth cares about this character???

    I can’t wait to see if it is Arya or Jamie who kills Cersei. My money is on Jamie.

    • Bella DuPont says:

      To be fair to the show, they attempted to bring in some interesting female characters in Dorne – the sand snakes and their mother…….unfortunately it didn’t quite work out.

  33. Dttimes2 says:

    Why knowing she was going to die did Missandei NOT throw herself into Cersei knocking them both to their deaths?? Her feet weren’t chained as her whole body fell?

    • Mara says:

      Maybe she was terrified, maybe she hoped that if it all played out she might be saved/kept as a hostage at the last minute, maybe she thought it wouldn’t work and wanted to die with dignity? I can’t imagine many people would be that quick thinking and bold in that situation.

  34. intheknow says:

    Everyone is playing checkers and Cersei is playing Chess, always 10 moves ahead. The fact that EVERYONE (barring Sansa) seems to be under estimating Cersei and her depravity and how far she will go..

    Dany is responsible for Missandei’s and Rhaegal’s death. She should have waited, have her armies rested, send some spies to figure out what Cersei was upto. Nope, she rushes in as usual. Dragons are powerful but they are not invulnerable. I am done with Dany…

    And when did Tyrion turn into a dumb ass??

    The scene where Jaime c*ck blocks Tormund is funny.

    • Patty says:

      She didn’t rush into anything. She was headed “home” to Dragonstone and was ambushed by Euron’s magical naval force. She wasn’t trying to attack Cersei at Kings Landing when that happened. She was going to Dragonstone to wait for Jon.

      • intheknow says:

        I didn’t say she was on her way to KL. My point is, she should have stayed put. She should have waited and have her armies rested. Let me be explicit…she could/and should have waited and rested in Winterfell. Not be heading off anywhere. There was nothing forcing her out of the north.

        Her lack of thoughtfulness and care for her people…is shocking. They just fought a brutal war with the NK. Sansa while she was being bitchy, she wasn’t kicking Dany out of Winterfell.

        Dany at this point is entirely fatalistic. She thinks she is invulnerable even at the cost of two dragons.

      • Veronica S. says:

        Why would she wait in Winterfell when the people have made it abundantly clear how much they dislike her? Sansa hasn’t hidden her disdain for her or her desire for Northern independence. The people there are xenophobic and racist, treating her troops like garbage. Now that the cat’s out of the bag about Jon’s heritage, she’s easily a target for political dissenters.

        And of course, you can argue against this, but those pieces are there. But what kills me is those legitimate reasons why Dany would feel nervous about staying in Winterfell with her troops are ignored by the story. D&D is just choosing to ignore them because it serves their ham-fisted plot better to suddenly make a successful military campaigner act a fool about how to behave following a battle. Mostly because they haven’t done shit to convince us that Sansa is actually a good ruler. They’ve just TOLD us, instead of allowing her to do anything interesting or meaningful for the last two seasons rather than talk.

      • Veronica S. says:

        Oh my God, I just realized I forgot the part where D&D says in the after show that Dany “forgot” about the Iron Fleet. That’s how stupid the writers think we all are. They think it’s sensible characterization for somebody with Dany’s experience to forget about something that big, to the point where it was a major subplot trying to get Cersei to stand down until the NK was gone in the previous season.

      • AryasMum says:

        I thought she should have waited, but then I remembered that the dragons weren’t eating well in the north. Dragons over soldiers, I guess.

      • BruinsFan says:

        Dragonstone is quite literally across the bay from King’s Landing – right next door. Going “home” to Dragonstone puts her directly in the firing line of Cersei and Euron, who have clearly been sitting back and waiting for her. It was not a smart idea to go to Dragonstone if the plan was to rest, at least without advance scouting.

        Also, it wasn’t just her troops that were tired and needed time to rest and heal, it was Rhaegal. He could barely fly, he had a bunch of holes in his wings.

  35. kryw says:

    I would like to apologise to all tumblr feminists who were boycotting GoT because of the way they portray women (gratuitious nudity, objectification, rape culture…). I kinda thought that’s a bit much. But they been knew all along. I assumed I was watching a good ol’ fashioned tale about morals, atonement, good v evil in us human beings.. albeit with “realism”. The Sacred Fight for the Living bla bla that is more important than our petty everyday squabbles (=who sits on that iron stool). The last two episodes clearly showed that for showrunners there is one thing that’s scarier than capital D Death itself – and that is a woman in power. I can’t believe this is what it all boiled down to. I can’t believe this is the story they are really, truly, honestly telling…
    In other words, I’m equal parts disgusted and fascinated. Bring on the next episode. This shit is so badly written and thought through – even Arya couldn’t save it. Dracarys.

    • Susan says:

      Just wait until the end too. The two mad women will take each other out effectively and we will be left with a bunch of “wise” men as determined by D&D’s assessment of what that term means.

      • Susan says:

        I follow two women on Tumblr who are writers of GOT critiques on their blog TheFandomentals. They’ve been calling out these terribly sexist and problematic parts of the show for years now. They have also managed to write ridiculously fun things about the show at the same time so worth a read.

    • Veronica S. says:

      The writing was on the wall seasons back for how sexist D&D are. I just wanted to believe it wouldn’t be THIS bad. But I was wrong, and to feel wrong, I literally had to watch the only WOC in the cast be beheaded on screen as an plot trigger for a white woman’s fall from grace. It’s not just misogyny and racism. It’s just actively vile writing to me.

      • kryw says:

        Missandei’s farewell to Grey Worm before the Battle of Winterfell had that “cutting her off with a Czech hedgehog/defending mechanism” shot that made me think she’s the one half of this couple who’s not gonna make it – “subverting our expectations” (fuck, if there ever was a brighter red flag about helpless and impotent writing, right?) that it’s gonna be Grey Worm… I closed off the part of my heart that was invested in her then and there – besides, it kinda made sense: she’s not a warrior, her people are peaceful, but still, she came to fight the one important fight, continuing the theme of “coming together despite our differences” and that GRRM theme of “unexpected” deaths that are *logical* in nature wheteher you like it or not… Turns out it was elementary (filmmaking) school level of rhyming shots and “foreshadowing” – cutting her off first metaphorically and then literally, leaving her as plot device and not a realized character. Also, now i’m thinking Tormund’s “you’ve got true north in ya” to Jon means we haven’t seen the last of The Night King just yet. Watch him kill Mad Dany to save innocent people only to turn horny and blue-eyed himself. You know it passes the White Boy Coolness Test. Doesn’t matter if you’re “good” or “bad” as long as you’re *important*. Special. Powerful. Fuck this shit.
        (I have another thesis on Brienne of Tarth, and how to effectively kill a character with just two scenes – how to turn La Pucelle d’Orléans into clingy wailing wife type overnight – but that’s for some other time:) )

      • AryasMum says:

        Dany wasn’t raped on her wedding night in the books, and Sansa wasn’t raped either. There’s enough violence in the book, why add more?

      • Veronica S. says:

        Dany is an arguable point because even if Drago was gentle, she still was sold into that marriage, and it’s made clear he’s rougher with her later. Sansa, however, is a horrific character change, made more egregious by her line in this episode about how her experiences have changed her for the better. The book version was already extremely problematic because it was using a woman’s assault for a man’s pain, but D&D apparently felt they needed to go one step further into awful.

    • phlyfiremama says:

      Yep. This episode was barely watchable, easily the weakest of the entire series. It’s like everybody just checked out already, and the continual knocking down of women is just atrocious. Ugg.
      Dracarys, indeed! Dracarys the writers, and any other people that greenlit this shoddy conclusion of what WAS one of the greatest shows ever. It is now “Meh of Thrones” to me.

  36. Digital Unicorn says:

    Just spotted on Twitter that someone noticed a Starbucks coffee cup in Winterfell. What’s the order, a WHITE ICED latte KING sized!

    https://twitter.com/JennaGuillaume/status/1125291475699290113

  37. manda says:

    I thought for sure that cersei would shoot tyrion with those crossbows. I feel like this show has really strayed from the “ANYone could die” thing it had going in the first few seasons.

    Also, dany should have shot fire at those ships. She is really a horrible tactical fighter.

    • Lady D says:

      Euron didn’t look pleased after she decided against shooting Tyrion.

    • Bella DuPont says:

      The bolts can be swiveled 360 degrees. We saw that the last time they were used. I think that’s why she turned back.

  38. line says:

    This episode frustrated me, because it is not a logical continuation to the 3 last episodes of the beginning.

    First: Any warlord with a little logic would never go fight again on another battle after suffering losses as immensely. The logic would have been that they would look for allies in the other houses (ex: House tully, or maybe send Jamie to going to reclaim the house Lannister because he is still the legitimized heir and the house the the same thing with House Barantheon with Gendry…)

    From there they could have created the plot of Daenerys that goes crazy because the others houses refuses to give her allegiance and prefers Jon. Then Cersei, just send Arya she managed to kill the king of the night she can kill Cersei.

    Can anyone tell me, why when she goes into a battle she has to bring back all her dragons knowing that she’s in control of one, she has not learned anything about her first battle with The Night King .

    • Patty says:

      She was headed home to Dragonstone. She wasn’t going off to fight Cersei (yet). How is this plot point getting lost on so many people. She was ambushed by Euron en route to Dragonstone – she wasn’t headed off to fight Cersei (yet).

      • manda says:

        and it seems to me if euron’s ship could see and reach them, she should have seen them before the first arrows were shot. I just can’t believe they were that hidden, but this show is taking some liberties. those first arrows were definitely shocking to see

      • Ellaus says:

        She shouldn’t have gone “home” to Dragonstone, because she became predictable, and predictable people get ambushed. She should have followed Sansa’s advice to rest and recover in Winterfell. Cersei isn’t risking going north in winter, and her army would have been in a better place.

      • line says:

        I agree returns to Dragonstone been a predictable and dangerous choice because Dragonstone is not as protected as the north (because Cersei was never going to go north because she knows she is in hostile territory) and then she also knows very well that Euron’s fleet is bigger, she should have sent someone to see if Yara Greyjoy had managed to reconquer the iron islands .

      • Gaby says:

        Yes, she was. Rhaegon’s wings were ripped. The only reason she was going to Dragonstone was to wait for the rest of her injured army that would take 2 weeks to get there because there weren’t enough ships to take them all, so they went by horse. You mean she and 50 of her men would “rest”?

      • Skeptical says:

        “How is this plot point getting lost on so many people.”

        Because these episodes are so badly written. A bad end to what was a sparkling series.

      • AryasMum says:

        Actually Dragonstone is well protected – it’s an island. Any ship would be noticed miles away. Not sure why we’re supposed to believe that Dany not only forgot about Euron’s ships, she’s also now blind to them. Dumb dumb dumb. Cheap tricks like the killing of Carl Grimes on The Walking Dead.

    • aiobhan says:

      She wasn’t going to KL, she was going home to dragonstone to wait for jon and got ambushed by Danish pacey. So she did actually listen to sansa and it didn’t work out so well for her.

      • Gaby says:

        No, she didn’t. Why wait in Dragonstone instead of Winterfell? Rhaegon’s wings were TORN, he needed to steady himself to fly. Her injured army is taken a two-week long trip to fight again. that is not the same as wait and heal.

      • Moneypenny says:

        Danish Pacey! I keep saying that they look like 🙂

      • ChillyWilly says:

        Ahhaa! Danish Pacey! I knew he reminded me of someone!

  39. Becks1 says:

    I don’t know. This episode felt like a cop out in many ways. The writers clearly have the end in sight and are just rushing us there, and its not necessarily that enjoyable at this point. Like, we know that dany is going mad. We can argue whether that is fair or whether there have been other signs about it for the past few seasons (I would say there have been), but the one thing that is clear is that the show’s writers WANT us to see that she is going mad. Men have done the same things that she has, yes, so that’s why I said you can argue about how fair it is or isn’t, but they are definitely leading up to her character going full on BSC. They are also setting Sansa up as the foil – she’s reasonable, rational, doesn’t want the throne, etc. (I’m not sure I fully agree with that characterization of Sansa, but I think that’s what the writers are trying to do.)

    I don’t think Sansa should have told Tyrion about Jon. I think she should have used that information to get what she wanted from Dany – a free and independent North.

    • Gaby says:

      I think Sansa’s and Dany’s characters are being terribly written for the past 2 seasons. Sansa also wants Cersei gone, and so far she hasn’t seen a terrible Daenerys moment to think she is such a bad ruler. And Dany never forced people to bend the knee like a tyrant. And she made allies with Yara, Ollena, and people from Dorne, it makes zero sense that she wouldn’t be more politically inclined to offer the same to the North, after seeing how they are distrustful of her.
      They want to show Sansa as the same spoiled and naive girl she was in season one and want Dany to go Targ Mad just to fit their narrative, doing a huge disservice to both.

    • Cindy says:

      Yeah I thought the same. Sansa was pretty stupid giving that information to the hand of the Queen she wants to take down. She should’ve gone to Dany directly and blackmail her.

  40. Veronica S. says:

    Yeah, I’m done with this series. Last night was just eighty-seven minutes of D&D’s absolute contempt for women and minorities on screen. I could have predicted some of this, but only if I thought the writers were really that stupid and tone deaf to pull off this kind of story in the year 2019. But, you know, here we are. A woman risen to power over seven seasons after a lifetime of abuse, rape, and violence, is now being positioned as the “mad queen,” becoming overwhelmed by her emotions, because her best friend – the only major WOC in the cast and whose character was a former SLAVE – was violently beheaded on television IN CHAINS as a sacrificial trigger for her ham-fisted plotline. (Whose death will also likely lead to the vengeance-fueled death of the only major male POC in the cast.) I had to listen to Sansa credit the men who abused her in previous seasons for her “maturation and growth.” (Rather than Cersei, the one who transformed her whole life? What, does sexual assault have to be part of the inherent maturation process in this world or something?) I had to watch her positioned as the sensible one, despite the fact that her political moves are essentially on the same level as Cersei’s, with the North’s power coming at expense of thousands of foreign troops. It infuriates me that her story in the past two seasons has boiled down to fighting with the other female characters. I had to watch the men treated as the voice of reason, even though none of them have managed sensible strategies or done the same or worse than the female characters.

    Last night was emotionally draining for me in ways I never expected. I’m so tired of hearing the argument “it’s fantasy.” This is not a show that writes itself. These are active choices made by white male writers who have no idea how to provocatively examine the nature of power in a story featuring characters in positions different than their own experiences. It’s just garbage story planning, and I saw the writing on the wall back in season 7 with the dumbass Arya/Sansa fighting, but I wanted to think it could clean up its act. The fact that GRRM actually woke up this morning and went, “Uh, holy shit guys, no, I’m sorry this is not what intended” is the only satisfaction I get out of all of this.

    • Bex says:

      Same. I feel bad for the actors, the majority of whom put their heart and soul into it, who then get thrown out there to defend such offensive storylines. Must be genuinely difficult for GRRM to watch.

    • Susan says:

      Your pain and anger is visceral Veronica. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you’ve said.

      Wait, just re-reading. Did GRRM actually say something publicly this morning??

      • Veronica S. says:

        LOL, not this morning, specifically, I was being dramatic. But he basically implied in a recent interview that his vision didn’t match up with the show writer’s ideas. He outright described the differences as “traumatic,” which is about as damning a description as I can think of.

      • AryasMum says:

        No wonder Emelia had to go out walking for hours to deal with what they have done to Dany, and her worries of how the viewers will end thinking of her.

      • Original T.C. says:

        GRRM ‘s lack of involvement was mentioned last week when the HBO writers screwed up the Prince that was promised prophecy and the quick death of the White Walkers but since people on her loved what the show writers did and bought their BS reasoning, no one cared. Last week you guys thought they were geniuses!

  41. PlayItAgain says:

    I liked this episode, but it was frustrating.
    LOVED Jon’s speech at the beginning and the funeral scene. I was crying in the first five minutes.
    Dany has been becoming a tyrant for four seasons. Not sure why people are surprised now that she’s really going off the rails when everything’s going to shit.
    Sansa pulling a Littlefinger move by revealing Jon’s secret. I knew she would.
    Jamie and Brienne—thrilled they finally got together. I truly didn’t think they would. And he would have stayed with her if they hadn’t gotten the news about Cersei. He’s going off on a suicide mission to kill her. It won’t work, and Jamie will still die.
    The Bronn scene felt completely out of place. Wtf?
    Arya and the Hound on the road again! She’s off to kill the Queen…but which one?
    Why the F didn’t they prepare for someone waiting for them at Dragonstone?? I KNEW something was going to happen. Did they honestly think Cersei was just going to sit on her hands while they were off in the North?
    Tyrion is an awful Hand. Has anything he’s arranged worked?
    Why kill Missandei? Is it just the final straw to crack Dany’s fragile sanity? That whole bit at the end felt rushed and confusing.
    Poor Rheagal!!

  42. Marty says:

    It is very clear the type of writing room they have on GoT, and I have a feeling the series finale is going to be horribly disappointing.

  43. Texas says:

    Dany is so alone and it’s breaking my heart. I still Stan with Dany. If she were a man, they would be treating her so differently.

  44. Miss M says:

    I didn’t like Sansa broke her promise to Jon snow. I also didnt like Brienne with Jaime. I preferred her with Tormund.
    If anything, the mad queen is Cersei. It baffles me how the characters cannot see that.

    • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

      She swore on her life. She’s going to be killed.

      Jon will go back to the North to rule, as KL will be destroyed.

  45. bus says:

    Cersei has invented missiles and given the best missile launchers to Euron. He is now the most powerful person in Westeros. There is no navy in the world that can stand up to him and every coastal city, every coastal castle is within his reach. 1 volley from his fleet and you surrender. The effectiveness of that weapon combined with it’s mobility is a game changer. They might as well have invented guns. The only way to stop Euron is to actually stop Euron. If there’s something resembling a happy ending, someone has to get close and kill him so the fleet has a ‘chance’ of shifting loyalties to Yara. Now, after Cersei has dealt with Dany, who now has zero chance of winning unless they go full blown iron age and build armor for the dragon, she merely has to mobilize the land based scorpions and she will re-unite the 7 kingdoms. If there is anyone on the sidelines that is hoping for Cersei’s downfall, they either have to act now to take her out or immediately submit and pledge their support to her. How long will it take Cyburn to put bottles of Wildfire on the end of those huge arrows/bolts? There are ways to ensure Cersei doesn’t conquer the 7 kingdoms but they all rely on successful assassination attempts. If she gets sentimental, which is her only weakness, Jamie might get close. Arya can certainly get close but … things can go wrong. I mean, it kind of sucks story wise that there is literally noone, not even a night king, that can best Arya in combat? That being said, I’d still be happy if Arya takes Cersei out. But here’s the thing: BOTH possessors of these new weapons have to go and those weapons have to fall into the right hands. As far as Dany 1. Living and 2. Winning, she honestly should go back to where she’s loved. Jon should go with her and the 7 kingdoms should go back to being 7 different kingdoms. If that doesn’t happen and Jon ends up on the throne, that’s the only way the North stays in, otherwise, if Cersei marches north with scorpions, the North will survive as long as Winter holds.

    • Lady D says:

      Reading your comment makes me think Cersei is going to get/have Arya killed before this show is over.

      • bus says:

        Seeing Arya die is probably the next big surprise. She and the Hound have bonded somewhat and the Hound is returning to kill the Mountain. Despite what she says about abandoning the Hound if he gets injured, I can certainly see Arya stepping into the Mountain/Hound fight and getting killed herself.

        My other dark thought about Dany is that she’s convinced she has a destiny but what would that be? The only really deity that has shown themselves to exist is the Lord of Light who may go my one (many faced god) ore more other names and personalities (the 7) and that deity has so far only shown interest in ensuring that life continues by defeating the dead. All of the movements by the LoL lead to the Great War and that’s over. The destinies as far as the LoL are concerned are fulfilled and what happens now doesn’t really matter because despite whatever wars are waged, someone will live and that is really the only thing the LoL has shown themselves to care about. I don’t expect the show to wander into religion however the person that was the obvious winner at one point is convinced that her destiny was to sit on the throne. I’m concerned her destiny was to mother dragons and free only enough people across the narrow sea to save Westeros. Now that’s over with, if that was her only real destiny, her belief in a continued destiny is a major liability. It’s a belief that will lead to her death. While it’s too lofty to talk about religion, it’s not beyond this show to use this grander sense of worth to teach a lesson: we’re all vulnerable. That being said, it’s another trick to convince us she’s going to die and then have her live 🙂

  46. Sof says:

    Tyrion’t didn’t give her bad advice, he was testing her and she FAILED. She doesn’t care at all about regular people, she only cares about the throne. Which is why he went to talk to Cersei. Noticed how his speech applied to both queens?

    Also, I liked the theory that the Stark children had foreshadowed their futures by naming their Direwolves. Any chances Arya will do as Nymeria, turn queen and sail away with her people?

    • Linn says:

      Ghost sure got ghosted.

    • DS9 says:

      Yes. I don’t believe Tyrion genuinely believed he could for sure appeal to his sister but he did believe he had to try anything that might delay or keep Daenerys from burning down King’s Landing or keep him and Varys and everyone else from having to likely betray Daenerys to save the small folk.

      Missandei was dead the moment Euron captured her.

  47. Skeptical says:

    I’m wondering whether Jon, Arya and Sansa aren’t colluding against Cersei AND Dany. That’s why they didn’t show Arya and Sansa’s reaction to Jon’s news and why Sansa revealed Jon’s secret to Tyrion?

    Unfortunately, the writing is so bad this year…..you can make anything out of this story.

  48. CES says:

    Nobody mentioned Arya and Clegane’s “unfinished business” in Kings Landing. He’s heading to kill his brother and she’s heading to kill Cersei.

    Also Varys wants Dany dead. He didn’t say it, but you knew exactly what he wanted without saying a word. My prediction is next episode Cersei finally dies and Dany will get her thrown only for the final episode for everyone to turn against her and demand Jon. I also noticed when they zoomed in on a shot of Dany she had green eyes, so maybe she is Arya’s Green eyes we were all wondering about. Cersei would be the obvious choice, but I think someone else will kill her, maybe Jaime.

  49. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    I’ll never not like this show. Its genre is predictable for bad everything — storytelling, character development and fulfillment, cinematography and special effects. GOT does a pretty damn good job ticking all those boxes. And furthermore, any medieval story carries political corruption, oppression and huge amounts of incorrigible misogyny and shocking torture. Well that’s our history anyway, so it’s not farfetched to see it play out on film. Sansa also admitted Ramsey got what he deserved, and I don’t think she would have been her character now if she never experienced horror. That’s her story. It’s Arya’s story. It’s Bran’s story, and it’s Jon’s story. This game of thrones is life or death, so growth through horrors is inevitable.

    I absolutely hated Missandei dying in chains. Hated it. But it’s Cersei. She knew exactly what she was doing to the breaker of chains. Another dragon dying was nasty business, and I’m sick to death of seeing Euron’s ridiculousness. Maybe I can’t stand him cuz the actor does a decent job, but yeah, raise Theon from the dead over his uncle any day of any week lol.

    I hate that everything is so rushed as I’m not ready. They could’ve milked this show for so much more money had they gone all in for a much longer haul. The whole Bron scene was like an afterthought simply to steer us into keeping that story on track. And Arya with Hound together, saying they’re not coming back stung a bit as I don’t want either to die. And do I wish I could’ve seen Bran’s matter-of-fact telling of Jon’s proper lineage? Absolutely. But we all knew it wouldn’t stay a secret. Come on lol.

    • ReginaGeorge says:

      I’m pretty much all there with your points.

      As annoyed as some people get with the shows direction, it is what it is. It keeps you guessing and talking. You have a divided Fandom. Even with the books the Fandom was pretty divided. I remember the folks who still swore to the bitter end that Robert was Jon’s real dad until the reveal lol.

      Everyone had their theories. That’s part of the fun. Sometimes their theories did not pan out and they were mad. C’est la vie.

      It’s also not far fetched from how humans have behaved historically. The best and the worst of us.

      People have been talking ish, but here we all are, with just 2 eps to go still invested even if we may not have gotten what they wanted.

  50. Rose says:

    Anyone else tired of the “strong woman actually turns out to be psycho, what can you expect” character trope or is it just me?

    • Veronica S. says:

      I sure as hell am, particularly because this one is just an absolute waste of a story. It’s not only redundant (Cersei is already your power hungry villain!), it’s the fact of what Dany started out as. I said it above, but I’ll repeat it here – taking a female character who has been victimized for most of her life and then twisting her path to power at the end to find madness and violence waiting is so repulsively sexist. If you wanted to have a story of her getting caught up in power, give us something that’s actually thoughtful and provocative. Examine WHY somebody like Dany would want power, why somebody who came from literally nothing would covet it so. Make us question whether there is actually justice in Dany’s brutality when the world she lives in is so cruel to so many. Make us think about how oppressive and patriarchal structures force people’s hands when it comes to war. Examine why her desire is inherently different from somebody like Cersei, who has been privileged her whole life, or Sansa and Jon, who have managed well for themselves despite obstacles along the way. Dany had to walk through literal fire to get her power. Where is any triumph in the storytelling to have it mean nothing at the end??

      • Cindy says:

        I agree. I’ve never been a fan of Dany, but the way her story is going, is more or less the same as if Jon had been the one to go crazy in the end and allied with the WW. During the first seasons Dany contributed nothing to the main story, and she had her own arc about being a revolutionary chainbreaker and a wise conqueror who will end tyrants. As soon as Dany steps feet in Westeros, oooop. That goes out of the window, and now I’m supposed to believe Dany is just another tyrant.

        “Great leader turns out to be a tyrant in the end” isn’t a bad route per se, but I’m not really seeing any signs of Dany going mad other than other character’s accounts that she is.

      • Veronica S. says:

        The signs of her going “mad” are her behaving the same way as any other man. Just look at the comment below stating that her decision not to intervene in her brother’s death is a sign of her own brutal streak – as though it’s somehow the responsibility of a woman with limited power to risk her own life defending a man who brought on his own execution after threatening her life and child in front of her husband, after years of sexually, emotionally, and physically abusing her, after literally offering her virgin body on the chopping block for political gain. That using her dragons – the weapons she has at her disposal – to kill those who would rape and enslave others is somehow horrifically problematic, conveniently ignoring the fact that she herself was once an impoverished woman sold into sexual slavery to a tyrant.

        The world of GoT is brutal, but only the women are ever punished for playing the game by the same brutal tactics and maneuvers that all of the men have utilized throughout the entire series. Jaime Lannister permanently disables a child after pushing him out of a window, he is complicit in his sister’s political machinations, and he gets to fall in love and pursue a possible redemption arc. Daenerys flounders as a leader trying to do right despite being young and inexperienced, and instead of seeing her grow, mature, and determine her fate meaningfully and morally, she devolves into an irrational madwoman over watching everyone she loves and was supported by die after sacrificing her armies to save an ungrateful Northern kingdom. It’s the ugliest parallel they could possibly make, the idea that the violence and anger of the victimized can be at all conflated with that of oppressors.

  51. Nina says:

    If I have to listen to one more person — in-show or real life — spout off about what a great leader Jon Snow is, I’m going to rupture my vocal chords screaming.

  52. Cindy says:

    The writing of the show has gone to hell for a while. I thought that maybe these last 3 episodes would be a comeback to old GOT, but I was mistaken.

    Characters are just being destroyed. Tyrion, a man who has had to learn about all the atrocities of the world and the true nature of people, widely regarded one of the smartest men in Westeros, is all of a sudden making nothing but stupid decission after stupid decission. When he started talking about Cersei’s baby I was just like “ugh, seriously”? Tyrion killed his father because he saw him for what he was, and he’s always been the same towards Cersei, but now suddenly she’s his sister and he thinks the bitch actually has a heart?

    The show has hinted at a “Mad Queen” angle for Dany a while, but they’ve fleshed that out so poorly and in a rushed manner. Everyone keeps insisting Dany is a despot, but most of the time she has to make decissions she opts for the most peaceful route. This show has had plenty of “Mad Kings”, Dany is nothing like them. But now suddenly this is what I’m supposed to believe she is.

    • insertpunhere says:

      Tyrion says (I believe in season one) that Cersei’s one redeeming quality other than her cheekbones is that she loves her children. I think that if Cersei is pregnant, than Tyrion is banking on the fact that she will love that baby enough to protect it, as she did with her children in earlier seasons. He wasn’t there to see what she did to Tommen, so he is appealing to that bit of humanity he saw in her before.

      Also, even if he hates Cersei (and hating a sibling is a complicated thing that is rarely black and white), Tyrion was shown to be a loving uncle. He’d want to save the baby because he loved Tommen and Myrcella.

  53. Cara says:

    In season 1, Daenerys watches Khal Drogo pour gold on her brother’s head and doesn’t even flinch. I know her brother was a real sh** so no one cares, but Daenerys has always been brutal and vindictive. For seasons now, her advisers have begged her to keep it in check. She feeds people to her dragons and burns down the Dothraki temple. She isn’t suddenly going “Mad Queen”, she’s always had a proclivity for extreme violence when it serves her purpose and sense of justice. All that has happened is that she has now run out of other options.

    • Linn says:

      What would you haver her do instead of burning down the Dothraki temple?
      Be meek and beg the Khal’s to be prisoned there for the rest of her life with the other widows? Allow them to gang rape her to death?
      Hope that she miraculously survives the raping and it enlightens her Sansa-Style?

    • AryasMum says:

      Her brother had just promised to kidnap her, and cut out her fetus to leave with the father. Her brother abused her her entire life, including groping her naked body, selling her to a stranger, and then telling her he would happily watch every Dothraki AND their horses rape her to get what he wants. That day is the day Dany finally realized her brother was irredeemable.

  54. Angry Bird says:

    After all the losses and betrayals and sacrifices, and the fact that people of the north show zero acknowledgement of her sacrifices, I’d nuke King’s Landing as well.
    When men get angry and take action, we observe and look for meaning and justification.
    When women get angry and take action, we call them CrAZy! MaD!!
    Never thought I’d be on Dany’s side, but I see it. I see why she’s pissed. This is too much.

  55. Patty says:

    There is a difference between being brutal, vindictive, or angry – and mad. The show is trying to tell us she’s “mad” when she’s not. She’s angry. It’s a trope and they aren’t selling it that well. Why? Because even when she’s used her dragons or fire in the past it was calculating and planned – never the actions of a mad or out of control person.

    Brining the Dosh Khaleen? She was in control and purposeful. The Wagon Train? In control and purposeful? Taking back the city of Mereen? In control and purposeful. She’s actually very much controlled and measured. What do you think Cersei, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, Bronn, Oleana Tyrell, Yara, the Sand Snakes, etc – would have done with three dragons? I bet they would have caused a lot more damage than Dany.

    • Veronica S. says:

      That’s what baffles me about this argument of “they planted the seeds.” What seeds? The ones where she utilized brutal tactics to take down enemies who had done the exact same to her family and to her? That she utilized the weapons she had at her disposal? That’s not madness, that’s calculated tactical planning. A pointed strike is not at all the same thing as senseless violence. It may not be kind and gentle, but what war is? You can make the argument that she’s forgetting the value of human life, but, uh, what character in this series seems to actually care about that, eh? They certainly didn’t mind throwing away character’s lives at the drop of a hat for shock value.

      “Dany has always had a brutal streak.” So does Arya. So does Sansa. So does Cersei. The women are brutal because the world they live in forces them to be that way. They’re brutal because the men in the story are, because they think owning a cock is a right to the throne and raping a woman is “breaking her in rough.” Sansa fed alive the man who raped her to hungry dogs. What do you think she would’ve done with those dragons had the North had them? Yet somehow, I’m supposed to cheer that on but cry foul when Dany burns alive slavers and rapists who did to others what was done to her? Make up your mind, writers. Brutality doesn’t get to be selectively moral.

      • AryasMum says:

        And lets not forget those dogs were hungry because Ramsay had starved them for days so they would eat his enemies.

  56. Wood Dragon says:

    Honestly I’m going to be angry if they go the Mad King route with Daenarys. You don’t build up a character like that and then undermine her.

  57. hogtowngooner says:

    I’m not a Dany fan myself, but damn if I don’t understand her frustration since landing in Westeros. She put her goal on hold to help the North fight the white walkers, lost two dragons, most of her armies and her two most trusted advisers in pursuit of this. On top of that, the North doesn’t like her, she’s being openly distrusted by Sansa and is getting terrible (even if well-meaning) advice from Tyrion. I don’t blame her for being over all of this crap. No one seems to be on her side.

    • Lancer says:

      Did Dani put her goals on hold for the North? For Jon? Or did she do it because the alternative was the death of every living thing in Westeros. No Kingdoms, No Queen.

      It wasn’t just Dani’s people sacrificing. The vale and north fought and died to defeat the nightking alongside them…

      Dani demands that the weary injured soldiers march south to fight yet another war. I get that she’s frustrated. She believes it her right to rule. Hell, if I birthed dragons and walked through fire I’d believes I’m the most special to ever special (even if I was only second in line to the throne, and even if I couldn’t have children, so I was unlikely to produce an heir, which could likely lead to a power vacuum, and possible civil war when I died, but destiny) Sane or insane, just or wicked, right or wrong, no one owes Dani their loyalty or trust. They don’t truly know this woman.

      Cersei is Queen, yes, of the capital, a greyjoy fleet, the Lannister lands (didn’t she abandon the rock?) and her sell swords.

      Is immediate War Dani’s only option, she could use this time to gain allies, what’s left of the Reach and Stormlands, the Dornish… Unite what was broken, then take on Cersei.

  58. laura-j says:

    Lame of Thrones.

  59. A.Key says:

    Daenerys was never gonna end up on the throne anyway, come on, that would be too boring and too obvious. Martin was never gonna let her beat everyone and just sit on the throne. So much of what we’re seeing here is pretty expected. Down to the fact that Jon’s lineage would be everyone’s downfall. It’s what Martin wanted I’m sure, that’s why he made Jon who he is basically, brought him back from the dead, and named his series a song of ice and fire.
    Admittedly, Jon ending on the throne is too boring for me as well, but I pretty much don’t see any other alternatives right now, the way everything is going… Unless they ALL die, and Gendry ends up on the throne?

    • AryasMum says:

      I’ve never believed Jon was the one true king. The mad king skipped over Rhaegar’s kids when he died, and made Viserys his heir. After his death, that would have become Dany.

  60. Taya says:

    So how did Euron sleep with Cersei and not realize that she was already pregnant? I mean, how dumb is he?

    • AryasMum says:

      I imagine that Euron is the type of guy who stares at his own face in the mirror during sex.

  61. ChillyWilly says:

    So does anyone else hope that NO ONE gets the Iron Throne? I want it destroyed and a democracy to be declared. I don’t want the 7 kingdoms to have a patriarchy/monarchy.

    • Linn says:

      The Iron Throne destroyed? Yes, Please.

      Democracy Declared? Nah, thanks. Too Fairytale-Like

    • Patty says:

      I agree. It’s the obvious and logical ending and would be bittersweet; everyone playing games and fighting over something that will cease to exists. I just don’t think D&D knew how to get there without basically making most of the main characters dolts the last season.

      As it stands, none of the remaining main or secondary characters are fit to rule nor are they what Westeros needs (maybe except Davos). They are all too messed up, damaged, angry, hurt, selfish, or noble to lead Westeros out of a period of chaos.

    • Myrtle says:

      This is my hope, too, ChillyWilly.

  62. Mads says:

    I agree with the point that Dany going mad in the books will be detailed over a long time so that the reader is prepared for it. In the show, it is too rushed. I know Daenerys is shown as reckless and too emotive but this destruction of her character so fast is such a disservice. The writers want a third WTF moment and have abandoned any semblance of plot and logic as seasons 7 and 8 are illustrating. There is a laziness in the writing and ignoring the lore; book Jon would never abandon Ghost so coldly – and Gendry is a Waters not a Rivers, very sloppy. I can understand that Beniioff and Weiss are probably burned out with the show, but they could have given it up to a team that would have taken at least an extra season to develop the progression to the ending in a more nuanced way.

  63. geekychick says:

    Eh, it couldn’t take them weeks to do it bc thry’d be all infested with various diseases by now. Death and decay bring large-scale epidemies like no one else. 🙂 They probably had timber ready for other purposes and this was their first job after the battle.
    Dany proved herself to be incompetent. I get her frustration, don’t get me wrong: from her pov, she sacrificed so much and right in the worst moment, a person she’s in lust with turns out to be a potential traitor and powerful enemy. But, what she lacks in good leader skills, what is her crucial failing, is her inability to see from other’s perspective: North was, for years, the first on the line to defend against the undead. They bore the most damage and trauma. The fact that she helped North is not especially noble considering the fact the rest of the Kingdom would be toast if North fell. And, instead of acknowledging that, she’s just always expecting everyone to understand, respect, adore her-while the situation is objectively not so straightforward. You have to put your own desires and emotional response aside if you wanna be good ruler.
    don’t ask me about Jon, also. Just…sigh. A true example of man thinking only with his lower head. So easily manipulated, so tactless…and his abandoning of the North is…eh. Just totally shi**y character development.

  64. Mash says:

    Dany is becoming PEAK white feminist to me…. like fake camaraderie until it serves her narrative

    And honestly I should have seen it when she went to Missandei’s town and “freed” all the people only to have the last shot of a bunch of brown people hoisting up this blond woman (yal remember that scene—i cringed)

    Dany is more on titles and faux fear and fakeness then being a real good leader. And her humbling is swift (lost 2 damn dragons)

    i take it Missandei’s death will force her to activate the madness (which everyone fears) and burn all the kinglanding ppl to hell or be stopped/killed by Jon or Arya or Sansa or Varys realm plotting.

  65. Tpoe says:

    At this point they should just let Arya try to kill Cersei (it’s what the fans want anyway I reckon). I don’t know who’s giving the orders but the battle tactics and strategy shown by the good guys have been just horrendous this season. Better to avoid battle if this is how they are going about it.

  66. Grant says:

    The writing is terrible this season. At this point, I’m just watching for my girl Sansa Fierce (stole that from Jonathan Van Ness’s hilarious and recently rebooted Gay of Thrones weekly recap).